1 00:00:10,365 --> 00:00:13,125 Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 2 00:00:13,885 --> 00:00:16,885 Speaker 2: Mama Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 3 00:00:16,885 --> 00:00:18,525 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. 4 00:00:18,725 --> 00:00:21,645 Speaker 1: Nothing can prepare you for Gaza. Gaza is just different. 5 00:00:21,925 --> 00:00:24,205 Speaker 1: You have no idea whether you're going to be alive, 6 00:00:24,285 --> 00:00:27,725 Speaker 1: whether you're going to be bombed, the level of injuries 7 00:00:27,725 --> 00:00:30,325 Speaker 1: that you're seeing, and the lack of medical equipment, the 8 00:00:30,405 --> 00:00:32,765 Speaker 1: lack of food. I mean, it is a scary place 9 00:00:32,805 --> 00:00:34,685 Speaker 1: to go and work. You know, I really didn't want 10 00:00:34,685 --> 00:00:36,085 Speaker 1: to leave. I wanted to stay and I wanted to 11 00:00:36,125 --> 00:00:40,005 Speaker 1: continue working, but you know, I was told that I 12 00:00:40,045 --> 00:00:41,485 Speaker 1: needed to leave for my own safety. 13 00:00:45,885 --> 00:00:51,205 Speaker 2: I'm Jesse Stevens and welcome to No Filter. The conversation 14 00:00:51,365 --> 00:00:54,365 Speaker 2: I'm about to share with you, which we recorded last week, 15 00:00:55,125 --> 00:00:58,525 Speaker 2: was the most impactful of my career. I have not 16 00:00:58,645 --> 00:01:03,005 Speaker 2: stopped thinking about it. Our guest today is doctor Mohammed 17 00:01:03,125 --> 00:01:07,725 Speaker 2: Mustafa known as doctor Moe, a Perth based emergency doctor 18 00:01:07,965 --> 00:01:11,605 Speaker 2: born to Palestinian parents and raised in the United Kingdom. 19 00:01:12,285 --> 00:01:15,085 Speaker 2: In the last eighteen months, he has embarked on two 20 00:01:15,365 --> 00:01:19,925 Speaker 2: medical missions to Gaza. While there, he did something he 21 00:01:20,005 --> 00:01:23,845 Speaker 2: wasn't meant to. He pulled out his phone. He filmed, 22 00:01:24,285 --> 00:01:29,085 Speaker 2: and then he published those videos to social media. Doctor 23 00:01:29,125 --> 00:01:33,525 Speaker 2: Moe brought global attention to the suffering of Palestinian civilians, 24 00:01:33,805 --> 00:01:39,165 Speaker 2: especially children. Alongside him, we saw the aftermath of a bombing, 25 00:01:40,085 --> 00:01:44,885 Speaker 2: children with no access to pain relief or surgeons, hospitals 26 00:01:44,925 --> 00:01:49,405 Speaker 2: with barely any resources running on the desperation of doctors 27 00:01:49,605 --> 00:01:55,005 Speaker 2: whose lives were also at risk. Conversations about children suffering 28 00:01:55,125 --> 00:01:58,565 Speaker 2: in any context are the hardest and the most necessary 29 00:01:58,645 --> 00:02:01,565 Speaker 2: stories to listen to. That is what this story is. 30 00:02:02,405 --> 00:02:07,165 Speaker 2: It includes graphic descriptions of the injury, suffering, and death 31 00:02:07,685 --> 00:02:13,005 Speaker 2: that doctor Moe witnessed firsthand. It's confronting, and it speaks 32 00:02:13,045 --> 00:02:16,685 Speaker 2: to the human toll of an ongoing, heartbreaking conflict that 33 00:02:16,725 --> 00:02:21,605 Speaker 2: has claimed tens of thousands of lives. No one tells 34 00:02:21,645 --> 00:02:24,125 Speaker 2: doctor Moe's story better than he does, so I will 35 00:02:24,165 --> 00:02:27,845 Speaker 2: leave that to him. Here's my interview with doctor Moe. 36 00:02:29,285 --> 00:02:31,325 Speaker 2: Hello doctor Mo, and welcome to No Filter. 37 00:02:32,125 --> 00:02:32,885 Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. 38 00:02:33,925 --> 00:02:38,405 Speaker 2: I wanted to begin today by asking you know, I 39 00:02:38,445 --> 00:02:41,885 Speaker 2: know you've been on the ground in Gaza. You have 40 00:02:42,005 --> 00:02:45,165 Speaker 2: seen things that most of us could never imagine. For 41 00:02:45,245 --> 00:02:48,645 Speaker 2: most of us, this is headlines, this is Instagram, this 42 00:02:48,765 --> 00:02:53,525 Speaker 2: is images that maybe we can put our phones down 43 00:02:53,565 --> 00:02:55,325 Speaker 2: if we want, But for you, I wouldn't want to 44 00:02:55,325 --> 00:02:57,685 Speaker 2: put words in your mouth. But it's a live trauma. 45 00:02:58,685 --> 00:03:02,485 Speaker 2: How are you today? How are you going emotionally psychologically? 46 00:03:03,565 --> 00:03:06,325 Speaker 1: So I don't want to make here about me, you know, 47 00:03:06,565 --> 00:03:09,925 Speaker 1: and you know, I don't want to talk about how 48 00:03:09,965 --> 00:03:12,005 Speaker 1: I'm coping and how I'm dealing with this because I 49 00:03:12,005 --> 00:03:15,565 Speaker 1: feel like, you know, the most important thing is to 50 00:03:15,605 --> 00:03:18,485 Speaker 1: center those people that are actively dying in Gaza, not 51 00:03:18,605 --> 00:03:20,725 Speaker 1: me who's had breakfast this morning and had a cup 52 00:03:20,765 --> 00:03:23,125 Speaker 1: of coffee. That's not who needs to be centered. Who 53 00:03:23,125 --> 00:03:25,805 Speaker 1: needs to be centered as those one million children or 54 00:03:25,845 --> 00:03:28,685 Speaker 1: however many of them are left in Gaza that are 55 00:03:28,765 --> 00:03:31,365 Speaker 1: currently being staffed to death. That's what we need to 56 00:03:31,405 --> 00:03:34,125 Speaker 1: talk about. And I understand, you know, people always say, 57 00:03:34,125 --> 00:03:37,285 Speaker 1: how are you coping? How you doing? Listen, I'm not coping. 58 00:03:37,885 --> 00:03:40,965 Speaker 1: You know. I'm tired. I've barely slept. I live out 59 00:03:40,965 --> 00:03:43,045 Speaker 1: of a suitcase. Ever since I got back from Gaza, 60 00:03:43,045 --> 00:03:45,725 Speaker 1: I've traveled around the world trying to make a tangible 61 00:03:45,765 --> 00:03:48,245 Speaker 1: difference to what's going on. I've been pleading with the 62 00:03:48,245 --> 00:03:51,525 Speaker 1: Prime Minister to meet with me. I've been working with 63 00:03:51,565 --> 00:03:55,085 Speaker 1: different NGOs to bring the plans for a hospital to 64 00:03:55,085 --> 00:03:57,325 Speaker 1: get it into Gaza. I'm trying to come up with 65 00:03:57,365 --> 00:03:59,445 Speaker 1: solutions for what to do. I want the government to 66 00:03:59,445 --> 00:04:00,805 Speaker 1: step in and do what they have to do, but 67 00:04:00,885 --> 00:04:03,925 Speaker 1: unfortunately somebody like me has to step up and has 68 00:04:03,965 --> 00:04:05,965 Speaker 1: to talk about what's going on, has to come up 69 00:04:06,005 --> 00:04:08,965 Speaker 1: with solutions of what we can do because I don't 70 00:04:09,005 --> 00:04:10,725 Speaker 1: see people doing it. I don't see people in the 71 00:04:10,725 --> 00:04:13,805 Speaker 1: government doing it. And it's a very very scary thing 72 00:04:13,845 --> 00:04:15,525 Speaker 1: to be and it's a very scary thing and to 73 00:04:15,605 --> 00:04:18,845 Speaker 1: be where you know, you've got the whole weight of 74 00:04:18,885 --> 00:04:21,565 Speaker 1: this on your shoulders, and I just sometimes it's a 75 00:04:21,605 --> 00:04:24,525 Speaker 1: lonely road. It's a very very lonely road. Sometimes, you know, 76 00:04:24,565 --> 00:04:29,165 Speaker 1: you get criticized. I get death threats, so you know, 77 00:04:29,365 --> 00:04:31,325 Speaker 1: like how am I doing. I'm just I just put 78 00:04:31,325 --> 00:04:33,205 Speaker 1: one foot in front of the other. Like that's it. 79 00:04:33,245 --> 00:04:34,725 Speaker 1: I just keep putting one foot in front of the other. 80 00:04:34,765 --> 00:04:37,125 Speaker 1: Turn up every single day, you know, and see what 81 00:04:37,165 --> 00:04:40,885 Speaker 1: I can do. And you know, if I've just got 82 00:04:40,885 --> 00:04:42,365 Speaker 1: to keep going, that's essentially it. 83 00:04:43,445 --> 00:04:45,725 Speaker 2: I think that point that it's like you're asking ordinary, 84 00:04:45,765 --> 00:04:47,485 Speaker 2: I would argue you're not that ordinary by the way, 85 00:04:47,485 --> 00:04:49,885 Speaker 2: and we'll get to that, but people to do pretty 86 00:04:49,885 --> 00:04:53,725 Speaker 2: extraordinary things. I want to go back to you. Are 87 00:04:54,365 --> 00:04:56,805 Speaker 2: you grew up in the UK as the son of 88 00:04:57,005 --> 00:04:58,645 Speaker 2: Palestinian refugees? Is that correct? 89 00:04:58,725 --> 00:05:00,925 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, my dad was born in Gaza. Yeah. 90 00:05:00,925 --> 00:05:04,485 Speaker 2: What was that experience like growing up as someone with 91 00:05:04,725 --> 00:05:06,565 Speaker 2: a Palestinian background in the UK. 92 00:05:08,605 --> 00:05:12,845 Speaker 1: You know, look, I remember when we were first when 93 00:05:12,845 --> 00:05:14,845 Speaker 1: I was first born, I was born in Mecca. You know. 94 00:05:14,885 --> 00:05:16,245 Speaker 1: I moved over to the UK when I was four 95 00:05:16,365 --> 00:05:18,245 Speaker 1: years old, But I remember when we were in Mecca, 96 00:05:18,285 --> 00:05:20,485 Speaker 1: Like our house didn't have running water, you know, my 97 00:05:20,565 --> 00:05:22,365 Speaker 1: dad used to there used to be a truck that 98 00:05:22,445 --> 00:05:24,605 Speaker 1: used to arrive once a week and it used to 99 00:05:24,605 --> 00:05:26,645 Speaker 1: have like barrels of water and that was our drinking water. 100 00:05:26,685 --> 00:05:28,965 Speaker 1: So my dad used to go downstairs and like there 101 00:05:29,005 --> 00:05:31,285 Speaker 1: was no elevator in this like apartment complex, as it 102 00:05:31,325 --> 00:05:33,485 Speaker 1: was like a essentially like you know it like kind 103 00:05:33,485 --> 00:05:36,125 Speaker 1: of like a ghettoized apartment complex. But he would walk 104 00:05:36,165 --> 00:05:38,165 Speaker 1: down the stairs, it'd be like twenty flights of stairs, 105 00:05:38,485 --> 00:05:40,645 Speaker 1: and he would carry this barrel of water, put it 106 00:05:40,725 --> 00:05:41,925 Speaker 1: on his shoulders and he would carry it and that 107 00:05:41,925 --> 00:05:45,325 Speaker 1: would be our drinking water. We had essentially a one 108 00:05:45,365 --> 00:05:47,565 Speaker 1: bedroom apartment for five of us, Me and my two 109 00:05:47,605 --> 00:05:50,485 Speaker 1: sisters and my mum and dad had a blanket between us. 110 00:05:50,925 --> 00:05:52,445 Speaker 1: You know, that was our life when we grew up 111 00:05:52,485 --> 00:05:54,165 Speaker 1: in Mecca and then we moved over to the UK. 112 00:05:54,845 --> 00:05:57,205 Speaker 1: You know, my dad's a doctor, so when we moved 113 00:05:57,245 --> 00:05:59,205 Speaker 1: over to the UK and he was working as a doctor, essentially, 114 00:05:59,205 --> 00:06:02,525 Speaker 1: like he had to provide for everybody, you know, so 115 00:06:02,565 --> 00:06:05,925 Speaker 1: we you know, I remember when we would when we 116 00:06:05,925 --> 00:06:08,885 Speaker 1: were growing up, knowing that we had so many miles 117 00:06:08,885 --> 00:06:12,085 Speaker 1: that we had to feedback home. Like the sacrifices that 118 00:06:12,125 --> 00:06:15,445 Speaker 1: we would make as a family, you know, buying secondhand 119 00:06:15,445 --> 00:06:18,965 Speaker 1: clothes all the time, and going to like grocery stores 120 00:06:19,045 --> 00:06:21,045 Speaker 1: late at night when they would reduce items of food 121 00:06:21,205 --> 00:06:23,485 Speaker 1: so we can buy that to eat. I mean, that's 122 00:06:23,525 --> 00:06:26,685 Speaker 1: what it was like. But you know, look, my parents 123 00:06:26,685 --> 00:06:29,045 Speaker 1: gave me an amazing life. I never once went hungry 124 00:06:29,085 --> 00:06:31,885 Speaker 1: or anything like that. And you know my dad now 125 00:06:32,005 --> 00:06:34,245 Speaker 1: is like the leading fertility specialist in the whole UK. 126 00:06:35,325 --> 00:06:35,725 Speaker 2: Wow. 127 00:06:36,125 --> 00:06:39,565 Speaker 1: So you know we're okay now. But you know, from 128 00:06:39,605 --> 00:06:41,405 Speaker 1: where we've come from and where we are now is 129 00:06:42,085 --> 00:06:44,245 Speaker 1: night and day. But that's what it's like growing up 130 00:06:44,245 --> 00:06:46,365 Speaker 1: as a refugee, and not just like as a as 131 00:06:46,365 --> 00:06:48,565 Speaker 1: a Palestinian, but anywhere in the world, Like when you 132 00:06:48,645 --> 00:06:52,525 Speaker 1: get you know, stripped and taken out of your home 133 00:06:52,885 --> 00:06:55,925 Speaker 1: and have to start with nothing. You know, my dad 134 00:06:55,925 --> 00:06:57,525 Speaker 1: didn't known a pair of shoes to do was fifteen 135 00:06:57,605 --> 00:06:59,525 Speaker 1: years old. He used to be barefoot up until the 136 00:06:59,565 --> 00:07:02,445 Speaker 1: age of fifteen. His trousers or his pants that are 137 00:07:02,525 --> 00:07:06,165 Speaker 1: used to wear were you know those USA aid flower bags. 138 00:07:06,885 --> 00:07:08,205 Speaker 1: They used to cut a hole in it for his 139 00:07:08,285 --> 00:07:10,365 Speaker 1: legs and then they used to just tie it up 140 00:07:10,365 --> 00:07:12,525 Speaker 1: with some string and that would be his trousers. This 141 00:07:12,565 --> 00:07:14,165 Speaker 1: is the level of poverty that my father had to 142 00:07:14,205 --> 00:07:18,325 Speaker 1: deal with because his village was taken over and he 143 00:07:18,445 --> 00:07:21,645 Speaker 1: was displaced and kicked out from his home and his village, 144 00:07:21,685 --> 00:07:23,805 Speaker 1: and you know, he had to move into the refugee 145 00:07:23,845 --> 00:07:27,085 Speaker 1: camps of Gaza because seventy percent of the Gaza population 146 00:07:27,245 --> 00:07:29,405 Speaker 1: are refugees from what is today Israel. 147 00:07:29,605 --> 00:07:32,485 Speaker 2: Were you aware growing up in the UK or did 148 00:07:32,525 --> 00:07:34,965 Speaker 2: you have contact with extended family who still lived in 149 00:07:34,965 --> 00:07:35,685 Speaker 2: Palestine at all? 150 00:07:35,805 --> 00:07:37,805 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got family in Gaza right now. I've got 151 00:07:37,845 --> 00:07:42,365 Speaker 1: my uncle, my auntie, my cousin's my Mum's aunties and cousins, 152 00:07:42,365 --> 00:07:43,925 Speaker 1: like all of them are in Gaza. 153 00:07:44,165 --> 00:07:47,325 Speaker 2: Prior to October seven, What did you know about what 154 00:07:47,365 --> 00:07:49,285 Speaker 2: their quality of life was, Like, I. 155 00:07:49,205 --> 00:07:51,565 Speaker 1: Mean a lot, because we support them, you know, we 156 00:07:51,645 --> 00:07:54,205 Speaker 1: used to support them. I would speak to them, you know, 157 00:07:54,845 --> 00:07:57,245 Speaker 1: and then it's like every year, you know, like we 158 00:07:57,245 --> 00:07:59,485 Speaker 1: we used to try and like you know, and things 159 00:07:59,485 --> 00:08:03,085 Speaker 1: like Ramadan or ed we would try and bring food 160 00:08:03,125 --> 00:08:05,485 Speaker 1: for the whole area, you know, through my uncle. We 161 00:08:05,525 --> 00:08:08,565 Speaker 1: would try and get everyone fed. And when I was 162 00:08:08,605 --> 00:08:11,805 Speaker 1: there in June last year, we were seeing kids like 163 00:08:11,845 --> 00:08:14,525 Speaker 1: what we're seeing now emanciated skin and bones dying from 164 00:08:14,525 --> 00:08:18,725 Speaker 1: starvation then in June, so you know, and look, this 165 00:08:18,805 --> 00:08:22,525 Speaker 1: is not controversial thing to say. The Israelis said, I 166 00:08:22,525 --> 00:08:25,885 Speaker 1: think it was the Defense Minister at the time of 167 00:08:25,885 --> 00:08:27,845 Speaker 1: ag Golong. He says, we're going to put a total 168 00:08:27,885 --> 00:08:30,405 Speaker 1: seage on Gaza. There'll be no food, water, in electricity 169 00:08:30,445 --> 00:08:32,965 Speaker 1: going into Gaza. And he said that on October the ninth, 170 00:08:34,165 --> 00:08:36,805 Speaker 1: two days into this and Netnya, who's saying there's no 171 00:08:36,845 --> 00:08:40,445 Speaker 1: starvation going on in Gaza. This is this is how 172 00:08:40,485 --> 00:08:42,045 Speaker 1: absurd it is, and this is how nut it is, 173 00:08:42,085 --> 00:08:46,645 Speaker 1: and this is why, Like, you know, words of condemnation 174 00:08:46,965 --> 00:08:50,845 Speaker 1: mean nothing. The tone and these governments have just shifted now. 175 00:08:51,485 --> 00:08:54,565 Speaker 1: But we've watched the same images on our screens for 176 00:08:54,605 --> 00:08:55,485 Speaker 1: almost two years. 177 00:08:57,005 --> 00:09:00,485 Speaker 2: So yeah, and those images, a lot of those images 178 00:09:00,525 --> 00:09:02,925 Speaker 2: have been shared by you, and I want to I 179 00:09:02,965 --> 00:09:06,565 Speaker 2: want to get to that experience. You were in a 180 00:09:06,725 --> 00:09:10,685 Speaker 2: very specific position when this war broke out because you 181 00:09:10,845 --> 00:09:14,725 Speaker 2: had training as a doctor. What made you decide to 182 00:09:14,805 --> 00:09:18,485 Speaker 2: go into medicine and what to specialize in? What was 183 00:09:18,525 --> 00:09:19,565 Speaker 2: behind that decision? 184 00:09:20,805 --> 00:09:23,165 Speaker 1: Well, you know growing up and watching my father, when 185 00:09:23,205 --> 00:09:26,485 Speaker 1: you grow up as a refugee, right, you're not very 186 00:09:26,485 --> 00:09:29,925 Speaker 1: well liked. You know, you're not treated very well. And 187 00:09:31,045 --> 00:09:34,165 Speaker 1: the one specialty and the one area, one profession that 188 00:09:34,685 --> 00:09:37,685 Speaker 1: you know would always treat as like humans would be doctors. 189 00:09:38,165 --> 00:09:40,165 Speaker 1: You know, whether it was a doctor's giving ye vaccines 190 00:09:40,965 --> 00:09:41,685 Speaker 1: or whatever, it. 191 00:09:41,645 --> 00:09:43,125 Speaker 2: Was treated with respect. 192 00:09:43,445 --> 00:09:46,245 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, I saw what medicine did for 193 00:09:46,365 --> 00:09:50,405 Speaker 1: my father. You know, he went from being this kid 194 00:09:50,405 --> 00:09:54,125 Speaker 1: with no shoes and wearing flower bags as his trousers 195 00:09:54,605 --> 00:09:57,605 Speaker 1: to now, you know, flying around the world doing conferences 196 00:09:57,605 --> 00:09:59,845 Speaker 1: and being one of the leading fertility specialists in the world. 197 00:10:00,445 --> 00:10:02,645 Speaker 1: And that's what medicine did for him, and it's empowering 198 00:10:03,285 --> 00:10:06,805 Speaker 1: and it allows me to help people without me being political, 199 00:10:07,205 --> 00:10:10,525 Speaker 1: because medicine isn't political. Medical medicine is and discriminate that 200 00:10:10,605 --> 00:10:12,485 Speaker 1: same virus that you have, or that same bug. It 201 00:10:12,565 --> 00:10:14,085 Speaker 1: will do the exact same thing to you as it 202 00:10:14,085 --> 00:10:16,845 Speaker 1: would do to somebody who's gay, somebody who's Jewish, someone 203 00:10:16,885 --> 00:10:20,645 Speaker 1: who's Muslim, someone who's black, white, whatever. It's the same thing, 204 00:10:20,685 --> 00:10:22,805 Speaker 1: and the treatment is the same. For the most part. 205 00:10:22,845 --> 00:10:26,925 Speaker 1: We do have some physiological you know, that's what medicine is, 206 00:10:26,965 --> 00:10:29,845 Speaker 1: and that's why I always wanted to do medicine, and 207 00:10:29,885 --> 00:10:31,245 Speaker 1: you know that's why I chose it as a career 208 00:10:31,285 --> 00:10:31,725 Speaker 1: path for me. 209 00:10:32,685 --> 00:10:36,165 Speaker 2: I want to take you back to October seventh, twenty 210 00:10:36,205 --> 00:10:40,405 Speaker 2: twenty three, because for a lot of people, perhaps shamefully, 211 00:10:40,925 --> 00:10:44,405 Speaker 2: they didn't have the context of what had been happening 212 00:10:44,445 --> 00:10:47,445 Speaker 2: between Israel and Palestine. Maybe they'd seen a few headlines, 213 00:10:47,485 --> 00:10:51,525 Speaker 2: but to them, you see the greatest loss of Jewish life, 214 00:10:51,685 --> 00:10:57,525 Speaker 2: the Holocaust horror. Remember the opera house, the Israeli flag 215 00:10:57,645 --> 00:11:00,245 Speaker 2: was there. What was your response, as someone who had 216 00:11:00,325 --> 00:11:03,965 Speaker 2: family who was in Ghaza, who had a very particular 217 00:11:04,085 --> 00:11:06,125 Speaker 2: vantage point, what was your response on that day. 218 00:11:06,965 --> 00:11:08,765 Speaker 1: I remember because I was on night shift that night 219 00:11:09,125 --> 00:11:10,925 Speaker 1: when news came out. I remember opening up my phone 220 00:11:10,965 --> 00:11:12,765 Speaker 1: and thinking, oh my god. Like, so you've seen some 221 00:11:12,805 --> 00:11:15,285 Speaker 1: of these images that are coming out of Israel and 222 00:11:15,325 --> 00:11:18,325 Speaker 1: you think, oh my god, what is happening. There's this 223 00:11:18,405 --> 00:11:21,165 Speaker 1: like level of like you don't know how to feel 224 00:11:21,765 --> 00:11:27,245 Speaker 1: as a Palestinian because in one hand, you feel pain 225 00:11:28,325 --> 00:11:30,125 Speaker 1: for these people and what's happened to them, and then 226 00:11:30,165 --> 00:11:32,765 Speaker 1: being taken ostagen and you can't you can't feel anything 227 00:11:32,765 --> 00:11:35,365 Speaker 1: but feel sorry when you see people screaming as they're 228 00:11:35,365 --> 00:11:39,005 Speaker 1: being carded away, right. And then on the other hand, 229 00:11:39,085 --> 00:11:43,165 Speaker 1: I'm thinking to myself, these images are so powerful because 230 00:11:43,645 --> 00:11:45,725 Speaker 1: everybody knows what was going to come next, and what 231 00:11:45,765 --> 00:11:47,885 Speaker 1: was going to come next was a massive bombing campaign. 232 00:11:48,125 --> 00:11:49,925 Speaker 1: Put it in a context in the first like you know, 233 00:11:49,965 --> 00:11:51,885 Speaker 1: before the first seas fire in November. So the first 234 00:11:51,885 --> 00:11:54,765 Speaker 1: I think about thirty days, twenty four days, these really 235 00:11:54,765 --> 00:11:59,365 Speaker 1: skilled one thy nine hundred children, one nine hundred children 236 00:12:00,365 --> 00:12:04,805 Speaker 1: in about twenty five days. This is just children. Forget 237 00:12:04,805 --> 00:12:07,565 Speaker 1: the women and the men in Gaza. This is just children, 238 00:12:07,605 --> 00:12:10,525 Speaker 1: one nine hundred kild And you know, look, I don't 239 00:12:10,565 --> 00:12:12,325 Speaker 1: ever want it to be about a competition if you've 240 00:12:12,365 --> 00:12:15,805 Speaker 1: killed more than hers, any of it. But what I 241 00:12:15,845 --> 00:12:17,525 Speaker 1: want people to see is, is it if your heart 242 00:12:17,565 --> 00:12:19,965 Speaker 1: breaks and bleeds for what happened on October the seventh, 243 00:12:20,005 --> 00:12:22,005 Speaker 1: to people that how can your heart not break for 244 00:12:22,045 --> 00:12:25,165 Speaker 1: what's happened to these children in Gaza? How can your 245 00:12:25,205 --> 00:12:28,765 Speaker 1: heart not break for the largest cohort of children amputees 246 00:12:28,845 --> 00:12:29,725 Speaker 1: in the world. 247 00:12:29,805 --> 00:12:32,285 Speaker 2: And your heart has space to break for both? 248 00:12:32,525 --> 00:12:34,925 Speaker 1: I think it does, It does, it does. And I'm 249 00:12:34,925 --> 00:12:38,925 Speaker 1: a Palestinian gas and refugee, and my heart breaks for 250 00:12:39,445 --> 00:12:42,085 Speaker 1: Jewish people who have suffered. Yeah, my heart's always broken 251 00:12:42,085 --> 00:12:44,845 Speaker 1: for Jews people stuff, not just that have suffered, you 252 00:12:44,845 --> 00:12:48,085 Speaker 1: know in Israel, say necessarily on October the seventh, but 253 00:12:48,125 --> 00:12:51,085 Speaker 1: like you know, just reading history and reading the atrocities 254 00:12:51,125 --> 00:12:53,885 Speaker 1: of what happened to Jewish people in Western Europe. But 255 00:12:53,925 --> 00:12:55,925 Speaker 1: you know what happened to Jewish people in Western Europe. 256 00:12:55,925 --> 00:12:58,165 Speaker 1: It wasn't the crime of Palestinians. But yet we are 257 00:12:58,165 --> 00:13:00,085 Speaker 1: the ones that have to pay the price. We are 258 00:13:00,085 --> 00:13:02,045 Speaker 1: the ones that had to leave our villages. 259 00:13:03,485 --> 00:13:08,245 Speaker 2: And I think that that creating space for the grief 260 00:13:08,405 --> 00:13:11,805 Speaker 2: of both of those, I think is really important. And 261 00:13:12,645 --> 00:13:16,965 Speaker 2: your perspective. I think that the horrors of October seven 262 00:13:17,005 --> 00:13:19,045 Speaker 2: and the grief of that and what that did to 263 00:13:19,045 --> 00:13:21,925 Speaker 2: the Jewish community all over the world was you know, 264 00:13:22,125 --> 00:13:26,965 Speaker 2: it's just just awful, unimaginable. But your perspective, I think 265 00:13:27,165 --> 00:13:30,245 Speaker 2: was bracing for what was about to happen. 266 00:13:30,965 --> 00:13:31,285 Speaker 1: Yeah. 267 00:13:31,485 --> 00:13:35,725 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you decided that you were going to go 268 00:13:36,245 --> 00:13:42,045 Speaker 2: to Gaza. How did you come to that decision? I mean, 269 00:13:42,085 --> 00:13:43,925 Speaker 2: we were hearing so early on that Gaza was one 270 00:13:43,965 --> 00:13:47,325 Speaker 2: of the most dangerous places on earth. How did you 271 00:13:47,325 --> 00:13:48,685 Speaker 2: come to that decision that you would go? 272 00:13:49,845 --> 00:13:51,485 Speaker 1: Do? You know, when you grow up as a refugee 273 00:13:51,525 --> 00:13:53,245 Speaker 1: and you're never allowed to go to your home, you're 274 00:13:53,285 --> 00:13:55,765 Speaker 1: never allowed to see your people, you're never allowed to 275 00:13:55,805 --> 00:13:59,485 Speaker 1: see your land, and when you start seeing what was 276 00:13:59,565 --> 00:14:02,565 Speaker 1: unfolding in Gaza, you know, part of me was like, 277 00:14:02,605 --> 00:14:03,605 Speaker 1: I tell you that now or never? 278 00:14:04,285 --> 00:14:05,005 Speaker 2: Were you scared? 279 00:14:09,565 --> 00:14:11,845 Speaker 1: Was very scared, and my mum was scared because she 280 00:14:11,925 --> 00:14:15,325 Speaker 1: knew what I was willing to do. You know, when 281 00:14:15,365 --> 00:14:16,725 Speaker 1: I was there, I was getting in the back of 282 00:14:16,725 --> 00:14:20,165 Speaker 1: ambulances transporting patients from hospital hospitals. You're not allowed to 283 00:14:20,165 --> 00:14:21,565 Speaker 1: do that because it has to be done under un 284 00:14:21,645 --> 00:14:24,165 Speaker 1: coordination and I was just getting in the back of 285 00:14:24,165 --> 00:14:27,005 Speaker 1: ambulance and transporting you know, children were missing limbs and 286 00:14:27,085 --> 00:14:30,285 Speaker 1: children on ventilators but we didn't have ventilators, but bagging 287 00:14:30,285 --> 00:14:32,205 Speaker 1: and masking children, trying to take them from one place 288 00:14:32,245 --> 00:14:35,565 Speaker 1: to another. Cause I knew what I was willing to sacrifice, 289 00:14:36,005 --> 00:14:38,005 Speaker 1: you know, when I went over there to try and help. 290 00:14:38,565 --> 00:14:41,405 Speaker 1: And you know, I was in a lot of danger 291 00:14:41,645 --> 00:14:46,365 Speaker 1: a lot when I was there. But I've been scared 292 00:14:47,205 --> 00:14:51,925 Speaker 1: my whole life, my identity, and you know, I've been bullied, 293 00:14:51,965 --> 00:14:57,525 Speaker 1: I've been being at schools. I've you can't let fear 294 00:14:58,245 --> 00:14:59,845 Speaker 1: be the thing that drives you in life. And that's 295 00:14:59,885 --> 00:15:02,045 Speaker 1: one thing that I just learned, like going into Guds, like, yes, 296 00:15:02,085 --> 00:15:05,405 Speaker 1: I'm scared, but you know, I've been scared my whole life, 297 00:15:05,405 --> 00:15:07,565 Speaker 1: and I still had to live my life despite being 298 00:15:07,645 --> 00:15:09,925 Speaker 1: you know. And that's just the thing, like even on 299 00:15:09,965 --> 00:15:12,245 Speaker 1: the campaign trail of this of like going around and 300 00:15:12,285 --> 00:15:16,645 Speaker 1: trying to humanize Palestinian people. I mean, the threat that 301 00:15:16,725 --> 00:15:20,485 Speaker 1: I get, the vitriol in which I've dealt with, the 302 00:15:20,565 --> 00:15:23,045 Speaker 1: racism that I get online and all that kind of stuff, 303 00:15:23,085 --> 00:15:25,885 Speaker 1: and I'm just like it is, it's scary. You know, 304 00:15:25,925 --> 00:15:28,165 Speaker 1: all of it is scary, like to see this kind 305 00:15:28,205 --> 00:15:32,285 Speaker 1: of level of violence like thrown at you. But I 306 00:15:32,405 --> 00:15:34,725 Speaker 1: just say to myself, like, it's just one foot in 307 00:15:34,725 --> 00:15:36,445 Speaker 1: front of the other. You just have to keep going 308 00:15:36,445 --> 00:15:38,645 Speaker 1: one foot in front of the other and until you 309 00:15:38,685 --> 00:15:42,765 Speaker 1: eventually get something done and you know, I've made peace 310 00:15:42,805 --> 00:15:44,285 Speaker 1: with whatever fate comes my way. 311 00:15:45,605 --> 00:15:51,405 Speaker 2: You're an emergency doctor. You walked in to the hospital 312 00:15:51,565 --> 00:15:55,325 Speaker 2: in Gaza. Yeah, can you paint a picture of what 313 00:15:55,405 --> 00:15:57,925 Speaker 2: the resources are like, what the supplies are like, what 314 00:15:57,965 --> 00:16:01,405 Speaker 2: the infrastructure is like, as you know, someone who's had 315 00:16:01,405 --> 00:16:05,885 Speaker 2: your training in Australia, so you know the comparison. What 316 00:16:05,965 --> 00:16:07,085 Speaker 2: was it like walking in there? 317 00:16:07,885 --> 00:16:11,045 Speaker 1: Do you know like there was we basically had no painkillers, 318 00:16:11,565 --> 00:16:14,405 Speaker 1: right so you did? Yeah? Yeah, I mean you know, 319 00:16:14,445 --> 00:16:17,245 Speaker 1: there's like a very very small amount of morphine, but 320 00:16:17,325 --> 00:16:20,285 Speaker 1: like I'd never use I didn't use morphine the whole 321 00:16:20,285 --> 00:16:21,685 Speaker 1: time that I was there. That's just how little there 322 00:16:21,845 --> 00:16:24,365 Speaker 1: was of it there. And we didn't have a single 323 00:16:24,445 --> 00:16:27,005 Speaker 1: ventilator in the emergency department that I was in, not 324 00:16:27,045 --> 00:16:31,525 Speaker 1: one ventilator and the ringoscope that we used to intubate people. 325 00:16:31,565 --> 00:16:33,205 Speaker 1: That when you you know, when you have a look 326 00:16:33,205 --> 00:16:36,965 Speaker 1: down people's throats. There was one of them, and in 327 00:16:37,005 --> 00:16:40,605 Speaker 1: a mass casualty event, that l ringoscope was just covered 328 00:16:40,605 --> 00:16:42,965 Speaker 1: in blood because we were trying to tube so many people. 329 00:16:44,325 --> 00:16:46,005 Speaker 1: And you know, all you do is you just you 330 00:16:46,005 --> 00:16:47,765 Speaker 1: pick up this thing. It's covered in blood by like 331 00:16:47,845 --> 00:16:49,965 Speaker 1: you know, this person's blooding this retubed and you just 332 00:16:50,005 --> 00:16:52,725 Speaker 1: have to like you know, grab mask, rubs, wipe it 333 00:16:52,805 --> 00:16:56,565 Speaker 1: down and then just onto the next one and it 334 00:16:58,525 --> 00:17:01,245 Speaker 1: and then you know, we we were talking about no 335 00:17:01,365 --> 00:17:04,365 Speaker 1: beds there. There's like seven beds in the department and 336 00:17:04,445 --> 00:17:07,285 Speaker 1: like five of them don't have wheels that fully function 337 00:17:07,405 --> 00:17:09,925 Speaker 1: and work. So you know, during these masks events, I 338 00:17:09,965 --> 00:17:12,405 Speaker 1: was like carrying people and taking them to the CT scanner. 339 00:17:13,165 --> 00:17:15,125 Speaker 1: People were dying as they were waiting because there was 340 00:17:15,125 --> 00:17:17,325 Speaker 1: only one CT scanner in the whole north of Gars. 341 00:17:17,365 --> 00:17:18,765 Speaker 1: And you know, when you have a mass casualty event 342 00:17:18,765 --> 00:17:21,365 Speaker 1: and you have like you know, one hundred dead, three 343 00:17:21,485 --> 00:17:23,925 Speaker 1: hundred injured or whatever, and you have one CT scanner 344 00:17:23,925 --> 00:17:27,325 Speaker 1: to scan them, all, people die waiting for CT scanners. 345 00:17:27,405 --> 00:17:32,605 Speaker 1: And there when we're dealing with burns, you know, after 346 00:17:32,645 --> 00:17:36,125 Speaker 1: these burn injuries from these these blasts, you know, we 347 00:17:36,525 --> 00:17:39,125 Speaker 1: just have nothing but normal bandages. So when you dress 348 00:17:39,245 --> 00:17:41,685 Speaker 1: these wounds with these inappropriate dressings and then you have 349 00:17:41,725 --> 00:17:44,325 Speaker 1: to change them two days later to stop them getting 350 00:17:44,325 --> 00:17:47,845 Speaker 1: infected because they're not the appropriate dressings. As you're pulling 351 00:17:47,845 --> 00:17:51,165 Speaker 1: the dressings off, you're pulling whatever formed of tissue or 352 00:17:51,285 --> 00:17:54,525 Speaker 1: skin is formed, and you're doing this without any painkillers. 353 00:17:54,525 --> 00:17:56,885 Speaker 1: And these are children and you're literally pulling their skin 354 00:17:56,925 --> 00:17:59,125 Speaker 1: off every two days, and. 355 00:17:59,085 --> 00:18:01,685 Speaker 2: Their screams and no pain relief. 356 00:18:01,405 --> 00:18:04,805 Speaker 1: No pain relief, nothing. And then you know, you know, 357 00:18:05,125 --> 00:18:08,885 Speaker 1: because with the hospitals are so overcrowded, people are staying 358 00:18:08,885 --> 00:18:12,285 Speaker 1: intent around the hospital and these are sick patients and 359 00:18:12,285 --> 00:18:14,565 Speaker 1: you're going into these tents and you're seeing that muggots 360 00:18:14,925 --> 00:18:18,085 Speaker 1: have begun to grow out of their wounds. We just 361 00:18:18,085 --> 00:18:20,765 Speaker 1: don't have enough time to take them all to theater. 362 00:18:21,485 --> 00:18:23,205 Speaker 1: And you know, if you've got one hundred people that 363 00:18:23,325 --> 00:18:26,205 Speaker 1: need surgery today, tomorrow, there's another hundred and another hundred 364 00:18:26,245 --> 00:18:27,005 Speaker 1: and another hundred. 365 00:18:27,605 --> 00:18:28,925 Speaker 2: A lot of people will have had a lot of 366 00:18:29,005 --> 00:18:34,885 Speaker 2: arguments with either family or friends over the last few years, 367 00:18:35,445 --> 00:18:39,285 Speaker 2: and one of the arguments that comes up, you know, 368 00:18:39,365 --> 00:18:41,285 Speaker 2: and there are more than two narratives. There are a 369 00:18:41,285 --> 00:18:44,365 Speaker 2: lot of competing narratives would be I have heard this, 370 00:18:44,485 --> 00:18:49,045 Speaker 2: I've seen it published. Her mass is hiding under the hospitals. 371 00:18:49,165 --> 00:18:53,245 Speaker 2: So maybe that is why there's a disproportionate amount of 372 00:18:53,285 --> 00:18:56,365 Speaker 2: health workers who are hurt because her mass wants their 373 00:18:56,405 --> 00:18:59,525 Speaker 2: own people to die. They talk about human shields. We've 374 00:18:59,525 --> 00:19:03,165 Speaker 2: heard these stories, you've been on the ground, I haven't. 375 00:19:04,045 --> 00:19:04,965 Speaker 2: What did you see? 376 00:19:05,485 --> 00:19:08,645 Speaker 1: Well, look, i mean just the framing of that. You know, 377 00:19:08,725 --> 00:19:11,285 Speaker 1: I want our own people to die, and you know 378 00:19:11,325 --> 00:19:14,205 Speaker 1: that we as Palestinians were just okay with death. And 379 00:19:14,525 --> 00:19:19,205 Speaker 1: you know, oh, well, because you know, there was a 380 00:19:19,445 --> 00:19:23,005 Speaker 1: Israeli prime minister, she was the first ever female prime 381 00:19:23,005 --> 00:19:25,485 Speaker 1: minister as well, and she said there will be peace 382 00:19:25,525 --> 00:19:27,365 Speaker 1: when they love their children more than they hate us. 383 00:19:27,605 --> 00:19:32,165 Speaker 1: So this idea right of human shields, and the Palestinians 384 00:19:32,205 --> 00:19:34,005 Speaker 1: are just willing to sacrifice their children. 385 00:19:34,845 --> 00:19:35,725 Speaker 2: That's not what you saw. 386 00:19:36,445 --> 00:19:38,005 Speaker 1: It's not just what It's just that this is the 387 00:19:38,045 --> 00:19:41,605 Speaker 1: dehumanizing language. It's been used for decades to justify killing children. 388 00:19:43,085 --> 00:19:46,525 Speaker 1: I mean, look, I'm a Palestinian, right, I'm a human being. 389 00:19:47,005 --> 00:19:49,565 Speaker 1: I don't want my children to die. I don't want 390 00:19:49,645 --> 00:19:52,005 Speaker 1: kids to die. I value them I love them. I 391 00:19:52,045 --> 00:19:55,285 Speaker 1: treasure them. To say that I hate somebody more than 392 00:19:55,325 --> 00:19:58,525 Speaker 1: I love my own children, right, think about what that 393 00:19:58,565 --> 00:20:01,165 Speaker 1: does in the psyche of people when that is what's 394 00:20:01,205 --> 00:20:06,365 Speaker 1: been perpetuated for decades, that these uncivilized Arabs, you know, 395 00:20:07,045 --> 00:20:09,685 Speaker 1: for them, you know, they're just savages. Death means nothing 396 00:20:09,685 --> 00:20:11,725 Speaker 1: to them. You know, they hate us so much. Look 397 00:20:11,765 --> 00:20:14,365 Speaker 1: at them, and I'm sat there and I'm like, I'm actually, 398 00:20:14,765 --> 00:20:17,485 Speaker 1: life means a lot. We want to live, We want 399 00:20:17,485 --> 00:20:19,805 Speaker 1: to be free, that's all we want. We just want 400 00:20:19,885 --> 00:20:22,285 Speaker 1: our freedom. We just want to be able to have 401 00:20:22,365 --> 00:20:25,165 Speaker 1: the right to self determination. And that's why indigenous people 402 00:20:25,165 --> 00:20:28,485 Speaker 1: here feel so much for what's going on to Palestinian 403 00:20:28,485 --> 00:20:30,965 Speaker 1: people because they see their own history and what's happened 404 00:20:30,965 --> 00:20:34,685 Speaker 1: to Palatin, the dehumanization. So you know, when we look 405 00:20:34,685 --> 00:20:36,925 Speaker 1: at like what happened on October the seventh, it's horrific 406 00:20:37,205 --> 00:20:40,645 Speaker 1: what happened. And I'm saying that as a Palestinian. You know, 407 00:20:40,925 --> 00:20:43,365 Speaker 1: the killing of women and children, the taking of vostages 408 00:20:43,405 --> 00:20:46,525 Speaker 1: of women and children is horrific. But it's just like 409 00:20:47,365 --> 00:20:50,645 Speaker 1: everybody says, there's no justification for October the seventh, but 410 00:20:51,165 --> 00:20:54,485 Speaker 1: everything is justified because of October the seventh, and again 411 00:20:54,525 --> 00:20:56,565 Speaker 1: people still use to say, well, you know, if they 412 00:20:56,565 --> 00:20:58,485 Speaker 1: release the hostages, it would stop. It won't stop. If 413 00:20:58,525 --> 00:21:00,045 Speaker 1: they release the hostages. 414 00:20:59,645 --> 00:21:01,205 Speaker 2: Well said, it won't stop. 415 00:21:01,245 --> 00:21:03,245 Speaker 1: It won't stop. He said, it won't stop. But we've 416 00:21:03,365 --> 00:21:05,725 Speaker 1: been saying that from day one, and who's broken the 417 00:21:05,765 --> 00:21:09,245 Speaker 1: ceasefire agreements multiple times. I think people now will begin 418 00:21:09,565 --> 00:21:11,205 Speaker 1: to see what you're dealing with. 419 00:21:11,605 --> 00:21:15,205 Speaker 2: So what did you see then in twenty twenty four 420 00:21:15,365 --> 00:21:20,365 Speaker 2: you arrive? What sort of injuries are you are you seeing? 421 00:21:20,365 --> 00:21:22,605 Speaker 2: What sort of patients are you trading? What does that 422 00:21:22,685 --> 00:21:23,125 Speaker 2: look like? 423 00:21:24,205 --> 00:21:27,285 Speaker 1: Well, so when I when I was there in June, 424 00:21:27,325 --> 00:21:28,805 Speaker 1: I was there for one of the worst mass casualty 425 00:21:28,845 --> 00:21:30,485 Speaker 1: offens of the war. I was there when they rescued 426 00:21:30,525 --> 00:21:33,845 Speaker 1: the four Israeli hostages. We had people coming in with 427 00:21:33,925 --> 00:21:38,325 Speaker 1: missing limbs, missing heads, eighty percent body burns, ninety percent 428 00:21:38,325 --> 00:21:42,245 Speaker 1: body burns. We were seeing children who had been shot 429 00:21:42,285 --> 00:21:45,485 Speaker 1: in the head and neck. We were seeing people that 430 00:21:45,525 --> 00:21:47,365 Speaker 1: had been pulled out from under the rubble and they'd 431 00:21:47,405 --> 00:21:49,445 Speaker 1: been under there for three four days and they were 432 00:21:49,485 --> 00:21:54,445 Speaker 1: coming in completely emanciated. Just doa'nt figures, zombie like figures. 433 00:21:55,485 --> 00:21:58,645 Speaker 1: We were you know. I remember there was this one 434 00:21:58,685 --> 00:22:01,645 Speaker 1: guy who'd come in from you know, from a blast injury, 435 00:22:01,645 --> 00:22:03,565 Speaker 1: and he had half of his you know, his jaw 436 00:22:03,725 --> 00:22:06,845 Speaker 1: was completely missing and his face was like half open, 437 00:22:07,725 --> 00:22:11,965 Speaker 1: and again, no painkillers. We're in this emergency er department 438 00:22:12,005 --> 00:22:16,765 Speaker 1: and it's just overcrowded and full, and this guy's right 439 00:22:16,765 --> 00:22:19,805 Speaker 1: there in the middle with half his face missing, and 440 00:22:21,245 --> 00:22:22,645 Speaker 1: you know, what do you say to someone like that 441 00:22:22,685 --> 00:22:25,605 Speaker 1: and you've got no pain killers? And I remember going 442 00:22:25,685 --> 00:22:30,725 Speaker 1: up to him and I did a dental block on him, 443 00:22:31,125 --> 00:22:32,805 Speaker 1: believe it or not, because there was a part of 444 00:22:32,805 --> 00:22:34,885 Speaker 1: his jaw that was there. So did this thing called 445 00:22:34,885 --> 00:22:37,645 Speaker 1: an inferior alveola nerve block, and I did a superior 446 00:22:37,725 --> 00:22:41,485 Speaker 1: alveola nerve block. But I was like, literally I pulled up, 447 00:22:41,565 --> 00:22:46,445 Speaker 1: like literally a piece of meat that was dangling off. 448 00:22:46,445 --> 00:22:47,605 Speaker 1: The skin had come off, and it was like a 449 00:22:47,605 --> 00:22:49,925 Speaker 1: piece of his cheek muscle, and I'd pulled it up 450 00:22:50,325 --> 00:22:52,685 Speaker 1: and I got my needle and I just tried to 451 00:22:52,685 --> 00:22:55,285 Speaker 1: position it because you don't have any anatomical landmarks. His 452 00:22:55,325 --> 00:22:59,245 Speaker 1: face is all mangled. And I injected him with a 453 00:22:59,285 --> 00:23:03,365 Speaker 1: local anesthetic and I just paused for like, you know, 454 00:23:03,485 --> 00:23:05,165 Speaker 1: thirty seconds and then he looked at me and he 455 00:23:05,205 --> 00:23:08,885 Speaker 1: went he slimm me, theacred doctor just means like bless 456 00:23:08,925 --> 00:23:11,045 Speaker 1: your hands. And I said, are you? I said, how 457 00:23:11,045 --> 00:23:14,085 Speaker 1: does it feel? It's gone numb? I was like going, 458 00:23:14,485 --> 00:23:16,445 Speaker 1: thank God, because I don't know if I could have 459 00:23:17,085 --> 00:23:18,845 Speaker 1: coped gone back to my room, knowing as a guy 460 00:23:18,845 --> 00:23:21,125 Speaker 1: with half his face missing and like just in agony. 461 00:23:22,365 --> 00:23:23,485 Speaker 1: But that's what we were dealing with. 462 00:23:24,405 --> 00:23:29,725 Speaker 2: There's those, you know, attacks and the catastrophic injuries. There 463 00:23:29,725 --> 00:23:32,925 Speaker 2: are the people who who don't even have the catastrophic 464 00:23:32,965 --> 00:23:36,485 Speaker 2: injuries and are living alongside it. How would you describe 465 00:23:36,805 --> 00:23:39,165 Speaker 2: the trauma that you witnessed, the trauma that you witnessed 466 00:23:39,165 --> 00:23:43,885 Speaker 2: from fellow doctors, from communities, from children who have lost parents, 467 00:23:43,925 --> 00:23:46,245 Speaker 2: from parents who have lost children, Like, how do you 468 00:23:46,325 --> 00:23:50,325 Speaker 2: even begin trying to describe the horror that he's living 469 00:23:50,325 --> 00:23:51,445 Speaker 2: in Gaza right now? 470 00:23:51,805 --> 00:23:55,845 Speaker 1: I remember there was one mass casualty event and there 471 00:23:55,885 --> 00:23:58,405 Speaker 1: was this like nine year old girl who'd come in 472 00:23:58,525 --> 00:24:02,045 Speaker 1: and she was injured, and she was barefoot, and she 473 00:24:02,125 --> 00:24:04,725 Speaker 1: was carrying her three year old brother who was also injured, 474 00:24:04,765 --> 00:24:07,125 Speaker 1: and she'd walked kilometers with a three year old brother. 475 00:24:07,565 --> 00:24:10,605 Speaker 1: Whole family had been killed. She's sat there walking with 476 00:24:10,645 --> 00:24:12,565 Speaker 1: her three year old brother in the middle of the night, 477 00:24:13,045 --> 00:24:16,165 Speaker 1: bombs going off everywhere, drones shooting people as they're coming 478 00:24:16,205 --> 00:24:22,245 Speaker 1: to the hospital. And I remember just thinking to myself, like, 479 00:24:24,685 --> 00:24:27,485 Speaker 1: this girl has had to watch her entire family be killed. 480 00:24:27,605 --> 00:24:30,765 Speaker 1: She's had to pluck up the courage to pick up 481 00:24:30,765 --> 00:24:35,285 Speaker 1: her injured brother who's crying and is almost lifeless. And 482 00:24:35,365 --> 00:24:38,925 Speaker 1: she's walked in the middle of the night, in the 483 00:24:39,045 --> 00:24:45,325 Speaker 1: dark because there's no electricity, while she's seeing these explosions. 484 00:24:45,365 --> 00:24:47,445 Speaker 1: And you've seen the images of what these explosions are like, 485 00:24:47,525 --> 00:24:50,005 Speaker 1: and just the shaking that it does. And she's walking 486 00:24:50,045 --> 00:24:52,525 Speaker 1: in amongst these explosions to get to the hospital to 487 00:24:52,565 --> 00:25:03,005 Speaker 1: save her brother's life. Do you know I just felt 488 00:25:03,005 --> 00:25:05,285 Speaker 1: I just said to herself, like I wonder how alone 489 00:25:05,325 --> 00:25:09,165 Speaker 1: she feels in this world. And I remember thinking to myself, 490 00:25:09,245 --> 00:25:12,125 Speaker 1: like how alone I feel here? Just you know, we 491 00:25:12,205 --> 00:25:16,885 Speaker 1: are these people are coming in. We have no equipment, 492 00:25:17,325 --> 00:25:20,645 Speaker 1: we have little to no staff to deal with the 493 00:25:20,685 --> 00:25:25,005 Speaker 1: amount that are coming in dead and injured. And this 494 00:25:25,045 --> 00:25:27,565 Speaker 1: little girl is just carrying a little brother, wanting somebody 495 00:25:27,605 --> 00:25:29,965 Speaker 1: to help her. She probably hasn't eaten, She probably hasn't drank. 496 00:25:30,525 --> 00:25:32,325 Speaker 1: I don't know even know if we can save her brother. 497 00:25:33,845 --> 00:25:38,405 Speaker 1: And she is scared, and I'm scared. I'm scared, and 498 00:25:38,445 --> 00:25:41,285 Speaker 1: I'm the grown man and I'm scared, and I'm just 499 00:25:41,325 --> 00:25:44,845 Speaker 1: like I have to be brave, but I'm just you know, 500 00:25:45,045 --> 00:25:47,045 Speaker 1: I'm just sat there. I'm just like, somebody needs to 501 00:25:47,085 --> 00:25:49,845 Speaker 1: help us. We can't have this is a slaughter It 502 00:25:49,965 --> 00:25:53,565 Speaker 1: is a slaughter house here, these children and men are 503 00:25:53,605 --> 00:25:58,125 Speaker 1: being slaughtered, and you know, I'm just sat there. I'm 504 00:25:58,165 --> 00:25:59,725 Speaker 1: just like going, is this the best that we have 505 00:25:59,925 --> 00:26:03,925 Speaker 1: is me? Why can't there be somebody better than me 506 00:26:04,005 --> 00:26:05,965 Speaker 1: here that can be here, can save them? Why can't 507 00:26:06,005 --> 00:26:11,405 Speaker 1: someone stop this carnage? But do you know I just 508 00:26:11,445 --> 00:26:13,125 Speaker 1: had to keep going And. 509 00:26:14,805 --> 00:26:20,965 Speaker 2: Sorry, I'm so sorry. 510 00:26:22,005 --> 00:26:23,725 Speaker 1: You know, sometimes I think I'm better. I think I 511 00:26:23,725 --> 00:26:26,005 Speaker 1: can I think I can talk about it and not 512 00:26:26,005 --> 00:26:27,965 Speaker 1: not break down. But you know, it's just hard. 513 00:26:29,765 --> 00:26:33,885 Speaker 2: With what you're describing, I'm going to inject some absolute 514 00:26:33,965 --> 00:26:36,165 Speaker 2: naivety into it, which is I'm sitting here in my 515 00:26:36,245 --> 00:26:43,205 Speaker 2: comfortable Sydney studio wondering why can't we have resources, Why 516 00:26:43,245 --> 00:26:47,085 Speaker 2: can't we have enough baby formula for the babies, Why 517 00:26:47,125 --> 00:26:51,405 Speaker 2: can't We like, why can we not just load your 518 00:26:51,405 --> 00:26:57,325 Speaker 2: suitcase right when you entered those hospitals? What could you bring? 519 00:26:57,565 --> 00:26:59,965 Speaker 2: Can can you bring aid? Can you bring supplies? Can 520 00:27:00,005 --> 00:27:00,925 Speaker 2: you bring the paintings? 521 00:27:01,245 --> 00:27:04,005 Speaker 1: You can't? You know, we've had doctors just recently who 522 00:27:04,405 --> 00:27:07,045 Speaker 1: were stopped and because they've tried to bring in baby 523 00:27:07,085 --> 00:27:09,285 Speaker 1: formula and the baby formula was taken out of their bags. 524 00:27:09,365 --> 00:27:11,525 Speaker 2: Was there a reason? Was there an explanation? 525 00:27:11,765 --> 00:27:14,205 Speaker 1: The reason is they don't see these people as human beings, 526 00:27:14,245 --> 00:27:17,525 Speaker 1: even children. We keep trying to rationalize what they're doing. 527 00:27:17,525 --> 00:27:19,285 Speaker 1: Why would they say no to baby for There's no 528 00:27:19,325 --> 00:27:21,765 Speaker 1: reason why you would say no to baby formula, no 529 00:27:21,845 --> 00:27:28,925 Speaker 1: reason whatsoever. I never grub, you know. It's it's different 530 00:27:28,965 --> 00:27:31,565 Speaker 1: for me compared to other people because I'm a fluent 531 00:27:31,565 --> 00:27:34,445 Speaker 1: Arabic speaker, you know, so, and I work in the 532 00:27:34,445 --> 00:27:38,365 Speaker 1: emergency department, so I'm right there when the disasters happen. 533 00:27:38,965 --> 00:27:41,605 Speaker 1: I'm right there when the carnage ensues, and people talk 534 00:27:41,685 --> 00:27:47,685 Speaker 1: to me, and you know, I'm going out, like you know, 535 00:27:47,725 --> 00:27:50,765 Speaker 1: in the marketplaces and I'm doing food shops for the 536 00:27:50,605 --> 00:27:52,605 Speaker 1: for the for the staff and getting some food for 537 00:27:52,645 --> 00:27:54,845 Speaker 1: them and things like that. So like I lived the 538 00:27:54,885 --> 00:27:56,645 Speaker 1: life in and amongst these people, you know what I mean. 539 00:27:56,645 --> 00:27:58,885 Speaker 1: I would stay at my uncle's house, you know, not 540 00:27:58,965 --> 00:28:01,725 Speaker 1: in the safe house, not in the hospital, my uncle's house, 541 00:28:02,205 --> 00:28:09,325 Speaker 1: you know. And man, I mean it was it's really scary, 542 00:28:09,925 --> 00:28:11,165 Speaker 1: you know. I remember one night I was staying at 543 00:28:11,205 --> 00:28:13,165 Speaker 1: my uncle's house and there was an Apache helicopter that 544 00:28:13,245 --> 00:28:15,245 Speaker 1: had flow around the neighborhood and it was just shooting 545 00:28:15,645 --> 00:28:17,725 Speaker 1: at rooftops and it was shooting at our uncle's house. 546 00:28:17,725 --> 00:28:19,805 Speaker 1: And we were just sat there as a family in 547 00:28:19,845 --> 00:28:22,205 Speaker 1: one room because we were like, if there's going to 548 00:28:22,205 --> 00:28:23,605 Speaker 1: be a bomb drop or anything like that, then we'll 549 00:28:23,645 --> 00:28:25,565 Speaker 1: all go together. And we just said that. I just 550 00:28:25,565 --> 00:28:28,045 Speaker 1: remember it myself, this is fucking nuts. 551 00:28:28,645 --> 00:28:30,525 Speaker 2: And that's just the reality every day life. 552 00:28:30,565 --> 00:28:32,365 Speaker 1: That's just the reality of everyday life. 553 00:28:33,045 --> 00:28:35,005 Speaker 2: When you were there in twenty twenty four, because I 554 00:28:35,045 --> 00:28:38,885 Speaker 2: know that recently the images of starvation have circulated around 555 00:28:38,925 --> 00:28:42,405 Speaker 2: the world and has perhaps contributed to some sort of 556 00:28:42,445 --> 00:28:46,405 Speaker 2: international tipping point. You're there in twenty twenty four. Was 557 00:28:46,445 --> 00:28:47,525 Speaker 2: there evidence of starvation? 558 00:28:47,605 --> 00:28:49,805 Speaker 1: Then? Yeah, there was. You know, we had plenty of 559 00:28:49,885 --> 00:28:51,805 Speaker 1: kids that were coming in that was being starved to death. 560 00:28:52,485 --> 00:28:54,405 Speaker 1: Children that were coming in Cacasia, I think you've got 561 00:28:54,445 --> 00:28:58,965 Speaker 1: to remember. And and then we bought with us shampoo 562 00:28:59,005 --> 00:29:01,645 Speaker 1: and body wash, right, yet that was gold dust. There 563 00:29:01,645 --> 00:29:04,725 Speaker 1: was none of that in Gaza because remember that there 564 00:29:04,805 --> 00:29:07,365 Speaker 1: was only like fifty eight trucks a day going into Gaza. 565 00:29:07,405 --> 00:29:09,845 Speaker 1: Back then, there was no aid that got into Gaza. 566 00:29:09,885 --> 00:29:12,685 Speaker 1: For like four weeks, no trucks had got in. So 567 00:29:12,725 --> 00:29:15,605 Speaker 1: you're drip feeding like fifty eight trucks in a day 568 00:29:16,165 --> 00:29:18,365 Speaker 1: and then you cut it off for six weeks. There's 569 00:29:18,405 --> 00:29:21,285 Speaker 1: no toothpaste, there was no body wash. That's why skin 570 00:29:21,325 --> 00:29:26,085 Speaker 1: infections were so rampant. So our shower gel was like 571 00:29:26,165 --> 00:29:28,245 Speaker 1: gold dust. You know. When we were like we would 572 00:29:28,245 --> 00:29:30,925 Speaker 1: have like little bottles of like water and we'd fill 573 00:29:30,925 --> 00:29:33,085 Speaker 1: in a little bit with some shower gel and then 574 00:29:33,125 --> 00:29:34,645 Speaker 1: fill it up with water and we would hand that 575 00:29:34,725 --> 00:29:36,685 Speaker 1: out to people you know, living in terms so that 576 00:29:36,685 --> 00:29:39,165 Speaker 1: they could use that to shower and wash. So you know, 577 00:29:39,605 --> 00:29:41,965 Speaker 1: like there wasn't like this was how desperate the situation 578 00:29:42,245 --> 00:29:42,805 Speaker 1: was then. 579 00:29:43,685 --> 00:29:46,805 Speaker 2: Because you went back in twenty twenty five the second time, 580 00:29:48,125 --> 00:29:52,405 Speaker 2: what was the first you know, hours days like when 581 00:29:52,405 --> 00:29:54,325 Speaker 2: you went back the second time, because was that when 582 00:29:54,365 --> 00:29:56,245 Speaker 2: the seats fire broke the second time. 583 00:29:56,365 --> 00:30:00,045 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I was like I arrived during the seasfire. Yep, yeah, 584 00:30:00,085 --> 00:30:02,205 Speaker 1: I remember. We'd finish work at like eleven o'clock at 585 00:30:02,285 --> 00:30:05,325 Speaker 1: night or something like that. We would go out to 586 00:30:05,405 --> 00:30:08,765 Speaker 1: the streets in Gaza and just like explore and there 587 00:30:08,805 --> 00:30:11,085 Speaker 1: was loads of like people who had you know, because 588 00:30:11,085 --> 00:30:13,925 Speaker 1: it was Ramadan, so people would make food out on 589 00:30:13,965 --> 00:30:15,405 Speaker 1: the stalls and stuff like that, and we would go 590 00:30:15,445 --> 00:30:16,525 Speaker 1: around and explore there. 591 00:30:16,765 --> 00:30:19,805 Speaker 2: So were you fasting? Yeah, so people are fasting in 592 00:30:19,845 --> 00:30:22,365 Speaker 2: the midst of these yeah wow. 593 00:30:22,685 --> 00:30:29,645 Speaker 1: Yeah we used to. Yeah, so you know, we'd fast and. 594 00:30:27,405 --> 00:30:29,965 Speaker 2: And then you would congregate at night because it's it's 595 00:30:29,965 --> 00:30:31,845 Speaker 2: a celebration, right that it's a. 596 00:30:32,005 --> 00:30:35,205 Speaker 1: Villigious Yeah, well, now you'd congregate to eat together. But 597 00:30:35,245 --> 00:30:37,245 Speaker 1: the problem was was that the Israeli is used to 598 00:30:37,285 --> 00:30:40,485 Speaker 1: bomb when it was the call to evening prayer for 599 00:30:40,525 --> 00:30:42,045 Speaker 1: people to you know, when people would pray and then 600 00:30:42,045 --> 00:30:44,885 Speaker 1: come together and eat, that's when they would bomb. So 601 00:30:44,925 --> 00:30:46,925 Speaker 1: it would be ten minutes after the call to prayer 602 00:30:46,925 --> 00:30:49,245 Speaker 1: when people would be gathering together as families to eat, 603 00:30:49,765 --> 00:30:51,965 Speaker 1: and that's when the bombings would be at its most intense. 604 00:30:52,125 --> 00:30:54,085 Speaker 1: Would be about ten minutes after the col to prayer. 605 00:30:54,925 --> 00:30:56,885 Speaker 2: What happened when the seas fire broke? What was your 606 00:30:56,925 --> 00:30:57,645 Speaker 2: experience of that? 607 00:30:58,685 --> 00:31:00,165 Speaker 1: And that was a horrific night, you know, the night 608 00:31:00,205 --> 00:31:03,765 Speaker 1: that is firebroke. I mean I'd finished work at like 609 00:31:03,805 --> 00:31:06,685 Speaker 1: eleven o'clock. I've gone up to my room, you know, 610 00:31:07,605 --> 00:31:13,685 Speaker 1: and finished texting my mom, family, friends, just letting them 611 00:31:13,725 --> 00:31:16,245 Speaker 1: know I was all okay, And then one o'clock, one 612 00:31:16,285 --> 00:31:19,405 Speaker 1: thirty in the morning, just the explosions that you would 613 00:31:19,405 --> 00:31:20,765 Speaker 1: hear coming from outside. 614 00:31:22,365 --> 00:31:24,805 Speaker 2: Were you terrified that it was going to hit the hospital? 615 00:31:25,165 --> 00:31:28,245 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean we were terrified because we just 616 00:31:28,285 --> 00:31:30,045 Speaker 1: didn't know. You know, you don't know like comms have 617 00:31:30,085 --> 00:31:31,925 Speaker 1: been cut, you know, once the bombs start, they cut 618 00:31:31,925 --> 00:31:34,245 Speaker 1: comes for like however many few hours, you know, and 619 00:31:34,925 --> 00:31:37,325 Speaker 1: so coms have cut, we don't know what's going on, 620 00:31:38,125 --> 00:31:41,445 Speaker 1: and all we're hearing is like just the room is shaking, 621 00:31:42,205 --> 00:31:45,085 Speaker 1: literally dozens of bombs going off in the space of 622 00:31:45,125 --> 00:31:47,885 Speaker 1: like five minutes. And you're looking around and you can 623 00:31:47,925 --> 00:31:49,965 Speaker 1: see the explosions out from your window, like that's how 624 00:31:50,005 --> 00:31:53,165 Speaker 1: close the bombings is, and you just have no idea 625 00:31:53,685 --> 00:31:55,245 Speaker 1: what's going to happen next. So I remember you going 626 00:31:55,245 --> 00:31:57,125 Speaker 1: in during the seas fire. Now the bombing has started, 627 00:31:57,645 --> 00:32:00,165 Speaker 1: you know, I mean I knew going in the second 628 00:32:00,205 --> 00:32:02,725 Speaker 1: time round. It just so it happened that I you know, 629 00:32:02,725 --> 00:32:04,605 Speaker 1: I was always planning on going back, but it just 630 00:32:04,605 --> 00:32:06,725 Speaker 1: so happened that I went back during say, this is fight, 631 00:32:06,805 --> 00:32:08,645 Speaker 1: but I knew this is fire was not going to hold. 632 00:32:09,405 --> 00:32:11,365 Speaker 2: What do you say in the aftermath of that in 633 00:32:11,405 --> 00:32:14,765 Speaker 2: the hours you're an emergency doctor, it must be bracing yourself. 634 00:32:15,125 --> 00:32:19,085 Speaker 1: We we had I remember just like these these families 635 00:32:19,125 --> 00:32:21,005 Speaker 1: coming in, and these mothers coming in, and they would 636 00:32:21,005 --> 00:32:23,845 Speaker 1: bring in plastic bags and it would just be their children, 637 00:32:24,685 --> 00:32:28,125 Speaker 1: just organs that were left of their children and body 638 00:32:28,125 --> 00:32:30,725 Speaker 1: pieces that they'd gathered and they'd bought in in plastic bags. 639 00:32:31,525 --> 00:32:33,365 Speaker 1: They would have that a plastic bag of one of 640 00:32:33,405 --> 00:32:35,005 Speaker 1: their children, and they would know they'd have their other 641 00:32:35,085 --> 00:32:38,445 Speaker 1: child that they would carry that would be injured. Do 642 00:32:38,445 --> 00:32:40,285 Speaker 1: you know you just sat there and you think to yourself, 643 00:32:40,445 --> 00:32:43,645 Speaker 1: where like what is going on here? Like what. 644 00:32:46,285 --> 00:32:48,285 Speaker 2: How do you even? How do you triage? How do 645 00:32:48,365 --> 00:32:50,965 Speaker 2: you decide? When you were that overwhelmed, you have no supplies, 646 00:32:51,925 --> 00:32:55,165 Speaker 2: barely any start. You went into this, I would imagine 647 00:32:55,165 --> 00:32:58,765 Speaker 2: to save lives. That's why doctors go into it. Where 648 00:32:58,805 --> 00:33:01,605 Speaker 2: do you begin with children that need you. 649 00:33:02,725 --> 00:33:04,885 Speaker 1: It's difficult for me compared to other people because those 650 00:33:04,965 --> 00:33:07,925 Speaker 1: children they look like me. You know, I'm a Garden, 651 00:33:08,605 --> 00:33:11,685 Speaker 1: I'm a Garsen, and you know, when I'm there in Gaza, 652 00:33:12,485 --> 00:33:14,805 Speaker 1: most people don't believe I'm an international doctor. They think 653 00:33:15,525 --> 00:33:19,605 Speaker 1: I'm from Gaza. And when you see a child that 654 00:33:19,645 --> 00:33:22,925 Speaker 1: looks like you or looks like your sister, who really 655 00:33:23,005 --> 00:33:25,525 Speaker 1: hits home. And then when you know there's no tree, 656 00:33:25,725 --> 00:33:29,325 Speaker 1: it's just chaos, like there's just bodies everywhere and people screaming, 657 00:33:30,165 --> 00:33:35,245 Speaker 1: and you get so overwhelmed right in that moment that 658 00:33:36,325 --> 00:33:37,925 Speaker 1: I say to myself, if I start going around and 659 00:33:37,925 --> 00:33:39,445 Speaker 1: looking at everyone, I'm not going to see everyone because 660 00:33:39,445 --> 00:33:41,885 Speaker 1: there's just so there's like literally dozens of people, hundreds 661 00:33:41,885 --> 00:33:44,965 Speaker 1: of people. So I just focus on what's right in 662 00:33:44,965 --> 00:33:46,405 Speaker 1: front of me, like what can I see in front 663 00:33:46,405 --> 00:33:47,885 Speaker 1: of me? And I remember there was this guy and 664 00:33:47,925 --> 00:33:50,085 Speaker 1: he was literally at the entrance because it was so crowded. 665 00:33:50,405 --> 00:33:52,725 Speaker 1: He was literally at the entrance to the emergency department. 666 00:33:53,565 --> 00:33:56,005 Speaker 1: And you know, I just got down on the floor 667 00:33:56,405 --> 00:33:58,485 Speaker 1: and I had my pocket ultrasound and I scanned his 668 00:33:58,565 --> 00:34:00,405 Speaker 1: chest and he had, you know, blood in his lungs, 669 00:34:00,405 --> 00:34:01,845 Speaker 1: and I knew we needed to get a chest train in, 670 00:34:01,925 --> 00:34:04,925 Speaker 1: so I literally grabbed a scalpel and I stabbed him 671 00:34:04,965 --> 00:34:07,765 Speaker 1: in the chest and put in a chest train in 672 00:34:07,845 --> 00:34:10,605 Speaker 1: on the floor and he's like, you know, badly injured, 673 00:34:10,805 --> 00:34:14,565 Speaker 1: bleeding everywhere, and I'm putting this chest strain in securing 674 00:34:14,605 --> 00:34:17,325 Speaker 1: the tube. Once I've got that in with one of 675 00:34:17,365 --> 00:34:18,925 Speaker 1: the nurses, and I've told him to stay with him, 676 00:34:18,925 --> 00:34:21,045 Speaker 1: and I'm going to go see if there's anybody else 677 00:34:21,085 --> 00:34:23,245 Speaker 1: that's in a critical condition because I've got the ultrasound 678 00:34:23,285 --> 00:34:25,765 Speaker 1: to see if I can scan more people, see who's 679 00:34:25,805 --> 00:34:29,165 Speaker 1: in critical condition, who's bleeding out. But I remember, like, 680 00:34:29,205 --> 00:34:30,525 Speaker 1: you know, I had to go carry this guy to 681 00:34:30,565 --> 00:34:33,125 Speaker 1: the CT scanner. And I got him to the CT 682 00:34:33,245 --> 00:34:36,205 Speaker 1: scanner and we scanned him in the cets kander and 683 00:34:36,445 --> 00:34:38,565 Speaker 1: we scanned his head initially, and then we were about 684 00:34:38,565 --> 00:34:42,045 Speaker 1: to scan his body and he died. Died on the 685 00:34:42,085 --> 00:34:44,045 Speaker 1: CTS kander, and we literally didn't even have the time. 686 00:34:44,085 --> 00:34:46,045 Speaker 1: We just literally put him down off the CT scanner 687 00:34:46,365 --> 00:34:47,805 Speaker 1: and then we got the next person on there. And 688 00:34:47,805 --> 00:34:50,725 Speaker 1: the next person was this woman who had it intestines 689 00:34:50,765 --> 00:34:53,525 Speaker 1: hanging out. That was the next person that we were scanning. 690 00:34:53,565 --> 00:34:56,965 Speaker 1: And it's just it's just carnage, just total carnage. And 691 00:34:58,405 --> 00:35:00,805 Speaker 1: you know, every day you're losing staff in Gaza because 692 00:35:00,805 --> 00:35:03,325 Speaker 1: doctors and nurses are being killed every single day in Gaza. 693 00:35:03,405 --> 00:35:04,845 Speaker 1: So you know, you don't know what's going to turn up, 694 00:35:04,885 --> 00:35:06,725 Speaker 1: what kind of workforce is going to turn up? 695 00:35:06,725 --> 00:35:10,565 Speaker 2: Then are they being killed in the bombings like you saidyeah, yea, yeah, yeah, they've. 696 00:35:10,405 --> 00:35:12,445 Speaker 1: Been killed in the bombings as well. So you just 697 00:35:12,525 --> 00:35:14,285 Speaker 1: you know, you go into this and you have no 698 00:35:14,405 --> 00:35:17,245 Speaker 1: idea one who the staff that are going to turn 699 00:35:17,325 --> 00:35:20,445 Speaker 1: up today, what kind of mass casualty event you're going 700 00:35:20,485 --> 00:35:22,005 Speaker 1: to see, Like what kind of bombs they're going to 701 00:35:22,085 --> 00:35:25,005 Speaker 1: use today? You know sometimes you know when they burn 702 00:35:25,045 --> 00:35:28,005 Speaker 1: the journalists in their tents, there's a certain type of bomb. 703 00:35:28,325 --> 00:35:32,525 Speaker 1: They sometimes use bombs that like cause shredding of people, 704 00:35:32,565 --> 00:35:34,725 Speaker 1: like they spit out these blades. 705 00:35:35,205 --> 00:35:38,565 Speaker 2: Had you worked in war zones before this? Like, had 706 00:35:38,605 --> 00:35:40,165 Speaker 2: you what some hospitals had you worked at? 707 00:35:40,285 --> 00:35:42,125 Speaker 1: You know, I'd work at refugee camps before and stuff, 708 00:35:42,125 --> 00:35:43,765 Speaker 1: but never in a war zone. But you know, I'm 709 00:35:43,805 --> 00:35:46,165 Speaker 1: like a young guy. I mean, you in my medical career, 710 00:35:46,205 --> 00:35:48,605 Speaker 1: and it just so happened that this was the first 711 00:35:48,645 --> 00:35:51,645 Speaker 1: big major conflict event where I was in my training. 712 00:35:51,685 --> 00:35:53,805 Speaker 1: I was ready to deal with quite a lot. 713 00:35:54,005 --> 00:35:56,885 Speaker 2: And how did it compare You've been to refugee camps, 714 00:35:56,885 --> 00:36:00,685 Speaker 2: which is not like your hospital in Australia, Like I 715 00:36:00,685 --> 00:36:04,805 Speaker 2: can imagine that you had some image maybe of what 716 00:36:04,885 --> 00:36:09,085 Speaker 2: to expect. How did it compare to what you've done previously. 717 00:36:10,125 --> 00:36:12,965 Speaker 1: Nothing can prepare you for Gaza. Nothing can prepare for God. 718 00:36:13,005 --> 00:36:14,605 Speaker 1: And I think everybody has said that, Like, you know, 719 00:36:14,965 --> 00:36:17,525 Speaker 1: major figures in the UN who have been to thirty 720 00:36:17,525 --> 00:36:20,565 Speaker 1: different war zones have said Gaza is just different. I mean, 721 00:36:20,685 --> 00:36:22,765 Speaker 1: you know, like I say, like you have no idea 722 00:36:22,765 --> 00:36:24,765 Speaker 1: whether you're going to be alive, whether you're going to 723 00:36:24,765 --> 00:36:28,645 Speaker 1: be bombed, the level of injuries that you're seeing, and 724 00:36:28,685 --> 00:36:32,045 Speaker 1: the lack of medical equipment, the lack of food, the 725 00:36:32,085 --> 00:36:35,365 Speaker 1: power outings and the cuts and electricity, I mean, it 726 00:36:35,445 --> 00:36:37,245 Speaker 1: is a scary place to go and work. And it 727 00:36:37,285 --> 00:36:40,765 Speaker 1: is just you know, the guilt when you leave Gaza. 728 00:36:40,765 --> 00:36:42,565 Speaker 1: I didn't want to leave Gaza, you know, I really 729 00:36:42,605 --> 00:36:43,965 Speaker 1: didn't want to leave. I wanted to stay and I 730 00:36:43,965 --> 00:36:49,205 Speaker 1: wanted to continue working but you know, I was told 731 00:36:49,205 --> 00:36:51,445 Speaker 1: that I needed to leave for my own safety because 732 00:36:51,445 --> 00:36:53,325 Speaker 1: you know, I was going viral while I was there, 733 00:36:53,365 --> 00:36:56,645 Speaker 1: and I was posting lots of videos and people were 734 00:36:56,685 --> 00:36:57,645 Speaker 1: worried for my safety. 735 00:36:58,045 --> 00:37:02,205 Speaker 2: And so you shared those videos, which were incredibly powerful. 736 00:37:02,285 --> 00:37:08,005 Speaker 2: I mean, witnessing and broadcasting feels like when you're powerless, 737 00:37:08,005 --> 00:37:09,645 Speaker 2: one of the only things you can do. 738 00:37:09,805 --> 00:37:10,005 Speaker 1: Right. 739 00:37:11,165 --> 00:37:16,405 Speaker 2: What was the response to that? Obviously within Australia globally 740 00:37:16,445 --> 00:37:20,085 Speaker 2: people are watching it, But did you have second thoughts 741 00:37:20,125 --> 00:37:22,645 Speaker 2: when you were in those hospitals about sharing it, knowing 742 00:37:22,725 --> 00:37:25,565 Speaker 2: that that was putting you in danger? 743 00:37:26,565 --> 00:37:28,885 Speaker 1: Well? I remember when I was filming this mass casualty 744 00:37:28,885 --> 00:37:31,165 Speaker 1: event and we had this like doctor who'd come in 745 00:37:32,005 --> 00:37:36,405 Speaker 1: and she was like an American doctor from a major NGO. 746 00:37:37,485 --> 00:37:39,405 Speaker 1: She said to me, you're not allowed to film. Switch 747 00:37:39,445 --> 00:37:41,725 Speaker 1: that off. You're not allowed to film. It's against the rules. 748 00:37:43,165 --> 00:37:45,405 Speaker 1: And I remember just stood in a part of these 749 00:37:45,405 --> 00:37:47,765 Speaker 1: bodies and I went and is this the rules? Is 750 00:37:47,805 --> 00:37:49,445 Speaker 1: this the rules? Is this the rules that we're playing 751 00:37:49,485 --> 00:37:52,165 Speaker 1: by here? I'm not allowed to film what's going on, 752 00:37:52,285 --> 00:37:54,845 Speaker 1: but they can kill these children? Is this the rules? 753 00:37:54,925 --> 00:37:58,005 Speaker 1: Is this the double standard? But this is why I 754 00:37:58,085 --> 00:38:00,365 Speaker 1: was like, we need to do something about this. And 755 00:38:00,405 --> 00:38:02,005 Speaker 1: this is why I was like, I need to do 756 00:38:02,085 --> 00:38:05,325 Speaker 1: something about this because it's not working what we have now. 757 00:38:05,725 --> 00:38:09,445 Speaker 1: We have NGOs that are so scared to talk in 758 00:38:09,485 --> 00:38:12,445 Speaker 1: case they lose access to Gaza that they won't call 759 00:38:12,485 --> 00:38:15,405 Speaker 1: it for what it is. I mean, just imagine, imagine, 760 00:38:15,445 --> 00:38:16,885 Speaker 1: like you know, coming in there and saying no, we're 761 00:38:16,885 --> 00:38:19,045 Speaker 1: not allowed to record what's going on. I'm like, what 762 00:38:19,045 --> 00:38:20,765 Speaker 1: do you want? You want us to die quietly then 763 00:38:22,485 --> 00:38:24,885 Speaker 1: so they can allow a few ventilators to come in 764 00:38:25,365 --> 00:38:28,885 Speaker 1: and some small amount a couple of boxes of antibiotics. 765 00:38:29,125 --> 00:38:30,365 Speaker 1: Is that why we're not going to film? 766 00:38:30,925 --> 00:38:35,285 Speaker 2: When people look at this, you know so many people 767 00:38:35,285 --> 00:38:40,005 Speaker 2: are horrified and completely overwhelmed in terms of what they 768 00:38:40,645 --> 00:38:46,805 Speaker 2: can do. And you left your second stay in Gaza 769 00:38:47,005 --> 00:38:50,245 Speaker 2: and you came up with a plan. Can you talk 770 00:38:50,325 --> 00:38:52,725 Speaker 2: us through that plan and what you need in order 771 00:38:52,765 --> 00:38:53,485 Speaker 2: to make that happen. 772 00:38:54,085 --> 00:38:55,925 Speaker 1: I know that I can't stop the bombs. It's not 773 00:38:56,005 --> 00:38:57,925 Speaker 1: me that's going to stop it. It's going to be 774 00:38:58,005 --> 00:39:00,965 Speaker 1: these powerful government figures that come together and decide one 775 00:39:01,085 --> 00:39:03,165 Speaker 1: enough is enough. And you know what we have to 776 00:39:03,165 --> 00:39:04,765 Speaker 1: do as a population is we just have to keep 777 00:39:04,765 --> 00:39:07,445 Speaker 1: applying pressure. So we're going to apply pressure for the 778 00:39:07,485 --> 00:39:09,525 Speaker 1: bombs to stop. That's what needs to happen for as 779 00:39:09,525 --> 00:39:11,565 Speaker 1: the bombs need to stop and there needs to be 780 00:39:12,365 --> 00:39:15,925 Speaker 1: food and aid that goes into Gaza. But my aim 781 00:39:15,965 --> 00:39:18,965 Speaker 1: as a doctor was to re establish the healthcare system 782 00:39:19,005 --> 00:39:20,605 Speaker 1: in Gaza and it was to bring in a mobile 783 00:39:20,605 --> 00:39:23,005 Speaker 1: hospital into Gaza. Now, the whole idea of bringing a 784 00:39:23,005 --> 00:39:27,885 Speaker 1: mobile hospital into Gaza is this would be under the British, Australian, Canadian, 785 00:39:27,965 --> 00:39:33,685 Speaker 1: New Zealand Irish flag. That would provide some form of 786 00:39:33,685 --> 00:39:38,125 Speaker 1: protection for the hospital because now it's like a essentially 787 00:39:38,165 --> 00:39:42,485 Speaker 1: like a diplomatic base that hospital now because it is 788 00:39:42,685 --> 00:39:45,365 Speaker 1: under the governance of the British the Australians, which are 789 00:39:45,405 --> 00:39:49,685 Speaker 1: allies with Israel, that hopefully that would provide it with safety. 790 00:39:49,685 --> 00:39:51,765 Speaker 1: But it would also mean that we have an unrestricted 791 00:39:51,805 --> 00:39:56,325 Speaker 1: access line to medicine and medical equipment and also that 792 00:39:56,365 --> 00:39:58,245 Speaker 1: what that would mean is when we bring in the hospital, 793 00:39:58,285 --> 00:40:01,605 Speaker 1: what comes in with the hospital is dozens of doctors 794 00:40:01,605 --> 00:40:04,925 Speaker 1: and nurses, not the eight doctors that come in on 795 00:40:04,925 --> 00:40:06,925 Speaker 1: a Tuesday and the eight doctors and nurses that come 796 00:40:06,965 --> 00:40:08,685 Speaker 1: in on a Thursday. And as they get swapped in 797 00:40:08,685 --> 00:40:11,005 Speaker 1: and out only you know, a handful of doctors that 798 00:40:11,045 --> 00:40:14,605 Speaker 1: go into Gaza at a time. This is a self 799 00:40:14,605 --> 00:40:18,805 Speaker 1: sufficient hospital. It's solar panel powered, it has operating theaters, 800 00:40:18,885 --> 00:40:23,325 Speaker 1: it has a pathology lab, pharmacy, it even has transfusion 801 00:40:23,365 --> 00:40:26,005 Speaker 1: centers in it as well. It has doctors quarters, it 802 00:40:26,005 --> 00:40:30,165 Speaker 1: has a kitchen in it, and you know, I've traveled 803 00:40:30,165 --> 00:40:31,845 Speaker 1: around the world to try and get these governments to 804 00:40:31,925 --> 00:40:36,485 Speaker 1: sign on to bringing in a hospital and to take 805 00:40:36,565 --> 00:40:38,805 Speaker 1: back some level, you know, because they say that they're 806 00:40:38,805 --> 00:40:42,325 Speaker 1: disgusted at what they're seeing and it's unacceptable. We'll do something. 807 00:40:43,085 --> 00:40:45,925 Speaker 1: Bring in a hospital and start treating these these people 808 00:40:46,365 --> 00:40:48,205 Speaker 1: and trying to alleviate some of these images that we're 809 00:40:48,205 --> 00:40:51,085 Speaker 1: seeing out of Gaza. We can't even evacuate children out 810 00:40:51,125 --> 00:40:54,405 Speaker 1: of Gaza. There's literally thousands of children that need evacuating 811 00:40:54,405 --> 00:40:57,205 Speaker 1: out of Gaza, that need medical aid treatment that are 812 00:40:57,205 --> 00:41:00,405 Speaker 1: not being evacuated. And I know this because I'm actively 813 00:41:00,885 --> 00:41:04,245 Speaker 1: behind the scenes trying to get these children evacuated, helping 814 00:41:04,325 --> 00:41:06,485 Speaker 1: out with filling in their referral forms and going through 815 00:41:06,485 --> 00:41:09,085 Speaker 1: different and finding hospitals that will take them. And it's 816 00:41:09,085 --> 00:41:11,685 Speaker 1: a very hard process and you know, we'll try for 817 00:41:11,725 --> 00:41:13,085 Speaker 1: weeks to try and get someone out and they might 818 00:41:13,125 --> 00:41:15,685 Speaker 1: die while they're waiting. These kids. So, if we can't 819 00:41:15,685 --> 00:41:18,525 Speaker 1: get these kids evacuated out of Gaza, if it's too 820 00:41:18,565 --> 00:41:22,605 Speaker 1: much of a political nightmare to bring in brown kids 821 00:41:22,725 --> 00:41:24,805 Speaker 1: here because you know people will complain if we bring 822 00:41:24,885 --> 00:41:27,285 Speaker 1: kids here that or what about the kids? Our kids here? 823 00:41:27,525 --> 00:41:30,045 Speaker 1: What about our hospitals are already And I totally get all 824 00:41:30,045 --> 00:41:33,885 Speaker 1: of that right, But if you're not going to do anything, 825 00:41:34,125 --> 00:41:35,765 Speaker 1: and you're not going to bring them over here, then 826 00:41:35,805 --> 00:41:37,325 Speaker 1: at least we can do is bring a hospital over 827 00:41:37,365 --> 00:41:38,925 Speaker 1: there and start treating children over there. 828 00:41:39,205 --> 00:41:44,405 Speaker 2: So have you spoken to politicians? Where is that plan at? 829 00:41:45,205 --> 00:41:49,525 Speaker 1: I have spoken a lot with politicians. I've traveled around 830 00:41:49,565 --> 00:41:49,925 Speaker 1: the world. 831 00:41:51,285 --> 00:41:53,445 Speaker 2: Have you spoken to Anthony Abenezi yet. 832 00:41:53,485 --> 00:41:55,965 Speaker 1: I've not spoken to Anthony Abenzia. I've been reaching out 833 00:41:55,965 --> 00:41:58,285 Speaker 1: to him over and over again to speak to him. 834 00:41:58,325 --> 00:42:00,685 Speaker 1: I've spoken to anyone, but I've spoke to anyone, you know, 835 00:42:00,765 --> 00:42:03,565 Speaker 1: when I first came out of Gaza and not since 836 00:42:03,605 --> 00:42:07,845 Speaker 1: we've materialized this plan. I speak with aunt Ali, who's 837 00:42:07,885 --> 00:42:09,005 Speaker 1: the full development minister. 838 00:42:09,525 --> 00:42:11,165 Speaker 2: What would you need so you would need? 839 00:42:11,845 --> 00:42:15,205 Speaker 1: I need courage, I need courage. I need courage. I 840 00:42:15,205 --> 00:42:17,405 Speaker 1: need my Prime Minister. I need him to be a 841 00:42:17,525 --> 00:42:20,285 Speaker 1: leader here. I need him to save those children's lives. 842 00:42:20,405 --> 00:42:23,005 Speaker 1: That's what I need him to do. I need him 843 00:42:23,045 --> 00:42:26,245 Speaker 1: to take leadership. I know the amount of flak that 844 00:42:26,325 --> 00:42:29,605 Speaker 1: he gets and the put like you know, what I'd 845 00:42:29,605 --> 00:42:32,285 Speaker 1: say to him is you're the Prime minister. It's your job. 846 00:42:32,565 --> 00:42:34,645 Speaker 1: People are not going to like what you do. But 847 00:42:34,685 --> 00:42:35,925 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, history is going to 848 00:42:36,005 --> 00:42:39,645 Speaker 1: judge and what we did for these children. And I 849 00:42:39,685 --> 00:42:42,605 Speaker 1: can't be the one that carries this. I'm just I'm 850 00:42:42,645 --> 00:42:45,005 Speaker 1: just a junior doctor from birth. I'm just a just 851 00:42:45,045 --> 00:42:50,285 Speaker 1: a kid, not a not a politician. And I've had 852 00:42:50,365 --> 00:42:55,365 Speaker 1: threat on my life, my you know, my wife and Gaza. 853 00:42:55,605 --> 00:43:00,245 Speaker 1: Her home was bombed two days ago. Luckily she wasn't 854 00:43:00,245 --> 00:43:00,525 Speaker 1: in it. 855 00:43:03,525 --> 00:43:09,725 Speaker 2: I'm in awe of that courage for in absolutely awe. Sorry, 856 00:43:10,645 --> 00:43:12,045 Speaker 2: and I think that there will be a lot of 857 00:43:12,085 --> 00:43:16,125 Speaker 2: people listening who want to help. I don't know how 858 00:43:16,125 --> 00:43:19,085 Speaker 2: you argue with the children's hospital. I don't know how. 859 00:43:19,165 --> 00:43:20,165 Speaker 2: I don't I don't. 860 00:43:20,245 --> 00:43:22,005 Speaker 1: I just we just have to keep going. Look, I 861 00:43:22,325 --> 00:43:26,045 Speaker 1: hate breaking down, but it's like so hard because I 862 00:43:26,125 --> 00:43:28,205 Speaker 1: watch her every single day and I see the weight 863 00:43:28,285 --> 00:43:30,365 Speaker 1: that she's losing, and I see that she's struggling. And 864 00:43:30,485 --> 00:43:37,845 Speaker 1: our home was bombed and then my uncle's home. And 865 00:43:37,885 --> 00:43:39,605 Speaker 1: I asked them, I say, look, I will stop if 866 00:43:39,605 --> 00:43:41,805 Speaker 1: you want me to stop, and they just say you 867 00:43:41,965 --> 00:43:46,925 Speaker 1: have to keep going because it's needed. People need you 868 00:43:47,045 --> 00:43:50,285 Speaker 1: to be successful here. People's lives are relying on this. 869 00:43:53,165 --> 00:43:54,725 Speaker 1: I don't want to be the one that carries this. 870 00:43:54,885 --> 00:43:58,125 Speaker 1: I want I want it. I want I want Anthony 871 00:43:58,125 --> 00:44:01,125 Speaker 1: Alberty easy to step in. I want him to help. 872 00:44:02,485 --> 00:44:05,005 Speaker 1: And I'm pleading all the time. Just meet with me, 873 00:44:05,165 --> 00:44:07,445 Speaker 1: talk with me. Let's get this done. Do you know 874 00:44:07,845 --> 00:44:10,245 Speaker 1: I've I've got the Irish I'm on board. I've got 875 00:44:10,245 --> 00:44:13,445 Speaker 1: the British government talking now with the Australian government behind 876 00:44:13,445 --> 00:44:17,965 Speaker 1: the scenes. I've you know, got World Central Kitchen on board, 877 00:44:18,005 --> 00:44:19,725 Speaker 1: and they've said that they would provide the food for 878 00:44:19,765 --> 00:44:21,885 Speaker 1: this hospital and they would feed all the doctors and nurses. 879 00:44:21,925 --> 00:44:25,725 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just a kid. I'm like, I'm like, 880 00:44:26,165 --> 00:44:29,125 Speaker 1: you know, I'm just a thirty five year old junior doctor. 881 00:44:29,165 --> 00:44:31,125 Speaker 1: And if I'm able to do this, you could do 882 00:44:31,165 --> 00:44:34,965 Speaker 1: this with one phone call. Anthony Albanezi And look, I 883 00:44:35,005 --> 00:44:37,045 Speaker 1: know I'm simplifying it and saying with one phone call, 884 00:44:37,085 --> 00:44:40,285 Speaker 1: but like you can be the guy that leads this, right, 885 00:44:41,685 --> 00:44:43,845 Speaker 1: I'm trying to do this and I've got my family's 886 00:44:44,005 --> 00:44:48,565 Speaker 1: and my wife's life on the line here, and it's hard. 887 00:44:48,965 --> 00:44:50,845 Speaker 1: And it's hard every day getting up in the morning 888 00:44:51,005 --> 00:44:54,325 Speaker 1: and just reading the abuse and the threats and knowing 889 00:44:54,325 --> 00:44:56,965 Speaker 1: that your family's in danger and the amount of family 890 00:44:57,005 --> 00:44:59,205 Speaker 1: members that I've had killed in the last few weeks 891 00:44:59,205 --> 00:45:03,485 Speaker 1: in Kaza, and it's just it's relentless. But we just 892 00:45:03,565 --> 00:45:07,565 Speaker 1: have to keep going because I just feel like if 893 00:45:07,565 --> 00:45:11,485 Speaker 1: I stop, then what's going to happen? And you know, 894 00:45:11,565 --> 00:45:13,205 Speaker 1: I wish there would be more people that would be 895 00:45:13,245 --> 00:45:14,805 Speaker 1: brave enough to talk. And I know there's a lot 896 00:45:14,805 --> 00:45:17,525 Speaker 1: of people that are talking about it, but I just like, 897 00:45:17,565 --> 00:45:19,365 Speaker 1: I don't know what to do. You know, I've been 898 00:45:19,405 --> 00:45:22,925 Speaker 1: thrown into this. I've not chosen this. I've not chosen 899 00:45:22,965 --> 00:45:26,045 Speaker 1: to be out here talking to people and speaking about this. 900 00:45:26,765 --> 00:45:30,325 Speaker 1: You know, I'm not media trained, I'm not a politician. 901 00:45:30,365 --> 00:45:33,805 Speaker 1: I'm not a fundraiser. I've never built a hospital in 902 00:45:33,845 --> 00:45:36,845 Speaker 1: my life. Somehow I've managed to put a blueprint together 903 00:45:36,845 --> 00:45:38,605 Speaker 1: of how to build a hospital. I've got governments on 904 00:45:38,685 --> 00:45:40,525 Speaker 1: board of how to do it. I've got an infrastructure 905 00:45:40,565 --> 00:45:42,125 Speaker 1: in place, I've got an enng O that I'm willing 906 00:45:42,165 --> 00:45:44,805 Speaker 1: to do it. I've had to do all of these 907 00:45:44,845 --> 00:45:47,805 Speaker 1: things since coming out of Gaza, living out of a suitcase. 908 00:45:48,405 --> 00:45:52,765 Speaker 1: But if I can do these things right, then then 909 00:45:52,925 --> 00:45:56,005 Speaker 1: then our government can do a lot more. If I 910 00:45:56,005 --> 00:45:58,165 Speaker 1: can get this done, then then I just need Anthony 911 00:45:58,165 --> 00:45:59,885 Speaker 1: albin Easy to sit down with me, talk with me, 912 00:46:00,125 --> 00:46:02,205 Speaker 1: and I need him to take on the bat And 913 00:46:02,285 --> 00:46:06,205 Speaker 1: I know, I know this is politically it's a political minefield. Yeah, 914 00:46:06,365 --> 00:46:10,805 Speaker 1: this right, But this is not politic. This is children's 915 00:46:10,805 --> 00:46:13,085 Speaker 1: lives on the line. Here. There are moments in your 916 00:46:13,085 --> 00:46:15,005 Speaker 1: life where you get tested on your character of who 917 00:46:15,085 --> 00:46:17,605 Speaker 1: you are. Right, you can sit there when you have 918 00:46:17,645 --> 00:46:19,965 Speaker 1: your victory speech after the elections and you can say 919 00:46:20,005 --> 00:46:22,885 Speaker 1: that we are a compassionate nation and we are built 920 00:46:22,885 --> 00:46:26,085 Speaker 1: on kindness. But it's not easy to do that. It's 921 00:46:26,125 --> 00:46:29,285 Speaker 1: not easy. It takes risky, It comes with risks, It 922 00:46:29,325 --> 00:46:33,565 Speaker 1: comes with risks. And I'm telling Anthony albanias I'm telling 923 00:46:33,605 --> 00:46:37,485 Speaker 1: him that these risks that you perceive right here, the 924 00:46:37,605 --> 00:46:39,645 Speaker 1: rewards are so much more, and there's so many more 925 00:46:39,645 --> 00:46:42,725 Speaker 1: people around the world would be grateful for your leadership here, 926 00:46:43,485 --> 00:46:46,165 Speaker 1: for your courage to stand up for these people. But 927 00:46:47,005 --> 00:46:49,965 Speaker 1: it can't be left to ordinary people to stand up. 928 00:46:50,485 --> 00:46:53,525 Speaker 2: If we can't agree on a children's hospital, then what 929 00:46:53,565 --> 00:46:55,605 Speaker 2: are we doing. I think that that's a sense that 930 00:46:55,645 --> 00:46:58,125 Speaker 2: I bet a lot of a lot of people have. 931 00:46:58,365 --> 00:47:06,725 Speaker 2: And in one of the most despairing, you know, apocalyptic spaces. 932 00:47:08,565 --> 00:47:12,365 Speaker 2: You met someone when you were in Gaza and you 933 00:47:12,445 --> 00:47:18,645 Speaker 2: are now married. What is life like for her right now? 934 00:47:17,925 --> 00:47:22,245 Speaker 2: What's that been like? That that distance and advocating for 935 00:47:22,285 --> 00:47:25,725 Speaker 2: someone who you just must be so scared? 936 00:47:27,325 --> 00:47:29,085 Speaker 1: Do you know? Like when I met her, I was 937 00:47:29,125 --> 00:47:31,965 Speaker 1: working in the emergency department and she was there, and 938 00:47:32,165 --> 00:47:34,485 Speaker 1: you know, look, it's been two years of this where 939 00:47:34,645 --> 00:47:37,125 Speaker 1: you know, you have these children coming and they're dying 940 00:47:37,165 --> 00:47:42,045 Speaker 1: on the floor and stuff, and a lot of doctors 941 00:47:42,085 --> 00:47:45,685 Speaker 1: have compassion fatigue. You know, there's not the same adrenaline 942 00:47:45,725 --> 00:47:47,805 Speaker 1: rush when you see an injured child now in Gaza 943 00:47:47,845 --> 00:47:49,085 Speaker 1: because there's just so many. 944 00:47:49,005 --> 00:47:52,085 Speaker 2: I can't imagine the trauma that they're living with. How 945 00:47:52,125 --> 00:47:53,725 Speaker 2: you just get up and go to work. 946 00:47:53,605 --> 00:47:55,885 Speaker 1: The next day and they do it every single day. 947 00:47:56,005 --> 00:47:58,325 Speaker 1: I mean, credit to them, they get up every single 948 00:47:58,405 --> 00:48:02,565 Speaker 1: day despite this trauma. Right. I remember just seeing her 949 00:48:02,685 --> 00:48:06,005 Speaker 1: and like she didn't have that compassion fatigue that a 950 00:48:06,045 --> 00:48:08,725 Speaker 1: lot of people have. She was there seeing every single patient, 951 00:48:09,045 --> 00:48:12,645 Speaker 1: giving time to every single patient. Like I remember, just 952 00:48:13,885 --> 00:48:16,605 Speaker 1: I remember just hitting myself out, like this woman's empathy 953 00:48:17,205 --> 00:48:23,765 Speaker 1: and kindness and compassion really shine through. And I was just, 954 00:48:23,845 --> 00:48:25,805 Speaker 1: you know, I was just so nervous to even approach 955 00:48:25,925 --> 00:48:27,525 Speaker 1: to talk to her, because I was just like, she's 956 00:48:27,565 --> 00:48:30,925 Speaker 1: like this angelic thing like walking around and I didn't 957 00:48:30,925 --> 00:48:36,565 Speaker 1: know how to approach her. And I remember thinking to myself, right, tomorrow, tomorrow, 958 00:48:36,605 --> 00:48:38,285 Speaker 1: I'm gonna, I'm gonna speak to it. I mean, you know, 959 00:48:38,445 --> 00:48:40,965 Speaker 1: I'd spoken to her, but in a professional context of 960 00:48:41,085 --> 00:48:43,645 Speaker 1: like dealing with patients. But I said, tomorrow, I'm gonna 961 00:48:43,685 --> 00:48:45,005 Speaker 1: I want to speak to her and just like get 962 00:48:45,085 --> 00:48:47,685 Speaker 1: to know her a little bit. And then at four 963 00:48:47,725 --> 00:48:49,165 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning, we got a call from the 964 00:48:49,205 --> 00:48:50,925 Speaker 1: un saying that we had to be evacuated from the 965 00:48:50,965 --> 00:48:52,965 Speaker 1: north and go to the South, and that the bus 966 00:48:53,005 --> 00:48:54,485 Speaker 1: was going to be there at eight o'clock in the morning. 967 00:48:54,485 --> 00:48:56,845 Speaker 1: So I had to leave at eight o'clock in the 968 00:48:56,845 --> 00:48:58,965 Speaker 1: morning before I got to see her. And I remember 969 00:48:59,005 --> 00:49:02,125 Speaker 1: thinking of myself here, you know, just there's there's no 970 00:49:02,165 --> 00:49:03,685 Speaker 1: way that this is ever going to be, you know. 971 00:49:04,885 --> 00:49:08,285 Speaker 1: And I remember because you know, at that stage, I 972 00:49:08,285 --> 00:49:10,565 Speaker 1: hadn't seen my own cool because because they were in 973 00:49:10,565 --> 00:49:12,125 Speaker 1: the south and I was placed in the north. So 974 00:49:12,245 --> 00:49:13,805 Speaker 1: when I was there in the South, I went to 975 00:49:13,845 --> 00:49:15,845 Speaker 1: go visit my uncle at his house and I was 976 00:49:15,965 --> 00:49:19,805 Speaker 1: I was going to stay there, and you know, I 977 00:49:19,845 --> 00:49:21,285 Speaker 1: said to my uncle said, oh, yeah, you know, there 978 00:49:21,325 --> 00:49:23,965 Speaker 1: was this girl at the hospital. But you know it's 979 00:49:24,005 --> 00:49:26,485 Speaker 1: not my it's not my destiny of but to be 980 00:49:26,565 --> 00:49:29,205 Speaker 1: with her. And he went, no, he went new call 981 00:49:29,405 --> 00:49:31,125 Speaker 1: up the head of the hospital and you ask him 982 00:49:31,285 --> 00:49:33,605 Speaker 1: about her. And I was just like, no, no, no, 983 00:49:33,725 --> 00:49:35,965 Speaker 1: that's just I was like, this is this is slack. 984 00:49:36,165 --> 00:49:38,765 Speaker 1: I'm sure he's busy, the head of the hospital, like 985 00:49:38,885 --> 00:49:41,565 Speaker 1: with an entire you know, there's a war going on here. 986 00:49:42,245 --> 00:49:45,085 Speaker 1: And then I called up the head of the hospital. 987 00:49:45,085 --> 00:49:47,965 Speaker 1: It was doctor name, and I said to me, you know, doctor, 988 00:49:47,965 --> 00:49:50,645 Speaker 1: there was a girl that worked in the er, and 989 00:49:51,725 --> 00:49:54,165 Speaker 1: you know, I just really liked her name was not 990 00:49:55,605 --> 00:49:58,045 Speaker 1: And he said, oh, I know, her father. Her father 991 00:49:58,125 --> 00:50:00,765 Speaker 1: is actually an orthopedic sursion he works with me. He goes, 992 00:50:01,125 --> 00:50:03,645 Speaker 1: I'll speak to him. So he spoke to her father, 993 00:50:03,725 --> 00:50:05,325 Speaker 1: and then a couple of hours later, her father called 994 00:50:05,365 --> 00:50:08,685 Speaker 1: me and he was like, you know, I heard that 995 00:50:08,725 --> 00:50:12,245 Speaker 1: you're interested in my daughter. I was thinking myself, what 996 00:50:12,365 --> 00:50:14,805 Speaker 1: this is getting real serious. I was just I just 997 00:50:14,845 --> 00:50:19,245 Speaker 1: wanted to talk to her, and you know, we sat there, 998 00:50:19,285 --> 00:50:20,925 Speaker 1: we spoke on the phone, and then he just said, like, 999 00:50:20,965 --> 00:50:22,485 Speaker 1: you know, look before I talked to her, I want 1000 00:50:22,485 --> 00:50:25,325 Speaker 1: to meet you in person. So he came from the 1001 00:50:25,325 --> 00:50:27,885 Speaker 1: north of Gaza to the south of Gaza, and he 1002 00:50:28,005 --> 00:50:30,645 Speaker 1: came because there's only one road that's open and into 1003 00:50:30,645 --> 00:50:33,125 Speaker 1: the Sea road. So he came via the sea road 1004 00:50:33,445 --> 00:50:35,205 Speaker 1: to where I was at my uncle's house. And then 1005 00:50:35,245 --> 00:50:37,205 Speaker 1: he spent like three four hours with me, just talking 1006 00:50:37,205 --> 00:50:39,405 Speaker 1: to me and getting to know me. And the next 1007 00:50:39,485 --> 00:50:42,645 Speaker 1: day he went and he, you know, he said, I 1008 00:50:42,685 --> 00:50:44,525 Speaker 1: want to speak to Nord. I like you you're a 1009 00:50:44,565 --> 00:50:46,205 Speaker 1: good guy, and doesn't want to go to speak to Nord. 1010 00:50:46,525 --> 00:50:48,445 Speaker 1: So he spoke to Nor and Noah said yes, that 1011 00:50:48,485 --> 00:50:50,685 Speaker 1: she would meet with me. So then the next day 1012 00:50:50,685 --> 00:50:52,765 Speaker 1: he came again with Laurence. She came from the north 1013 00:50:52,805 --> 00:50:55,765 Speaker 1: to the south. It's so dangerous, like traveling from the 1014 00:50:55,805 --> 00:50:58,205 Speaker 1: north to the south. And he came and you know, 1015 00:50:58,285 --> 00:51:01,645 Speaker 1: me and her I were in my uncle's house and 1016 00:51:01,845 --> 00:51:04,285 Speaker 1: it was so funny because they gave us like a 1017 00:51:04,365 --> 00:51:06,165 Speaker 1: room for me and her to sit in and to talk, 1018 00:51:07,165 --> 00:51:10,525 Speaker 1: and my cousins would like knock on the door and 1019 00:51:10,685 --> 00:51:14,085 Speaker 1: like bring in like coffee, and like I was all going, guys, 1020 00:51:14,165 --> 00:51:18,765 Speaker 1: you two love birds. And you know, at the end 1021 00:51:18,805 --> 00:51:21,925 Speaker 1: of like that conversation with me and her, you know, 1022 00:51:22,125 --> 00:51:24,045 Speaker 1: you know when you just know, you know, look, I've 1023 00:51:24,085 --> 00:51:25,925 Speaker 1: been born and I was raised in the west. Like 1024 00:51:26,165 --> 00:51:28,285 Speaker 1: I always thought that I would, you know, the way 1025 00:51:28,285 --> 00:51:30,245 Speaker 1: that I would meet somebody would be like you know, 1026 00:51:30,285 --> 00:51:32,845 Speaker 1: I would get to know them and you know how 1027 00:51:32,925 --> 00:51:34,765 Speaker 1: I'll date them for a while and then and then 1028 00:51:34,805 --> 00:51:38,885 Speaker 1: get married. But like, you know, just listening to the 1029 00:51:38,885 --> 00:51:44,205 Speaker 1: way that she spoke and her grace and her manners 1030 00:51:44,405 --> 00:51:48,845 Speaker 1: and her kindness and her empathy, I was just blown away. 1031 00:51:48,845 --> 00:51:51,205 Speaker 1: I was just like, there's there's there's no one better 1032 00:51:51,205 --> 00:51:55,205 Speaker 1: than this than this, than this woman. And you know 1033 00:51:55,245 --> 00:51:58,605 Speaker 1: when you know, she's so graceful, so like when when 1034 00:51:59,125 --> 00:52:01,965 Speaker 1: you know, when we finished talking, she said, I'm going 1035 00:52:02,045 --> 00:52:04,965 Speaker 1: to pray and then I'll and then I'll give you 1036 00:52:05,005 --> 00:52:09,525 Speaker 1: my answer of what we want to do. So you know, 1037 00:52:09,605 --> 00:52:13,685 Speaker 1: she they went home and in the morning, after morning prayer, 1038 00:52:13,685 --> 00:52:16,645 Speaker 1: I got a call and I was in the hospital 1039 00:52:16,645 --> 00:52:18,125 Speaker 1: at the time. I was working, and I got a 1040 00:52:18,125 --> 00:52:20,165 Speaker 1: call from her dad and he said congratulations, he said, 1041 00:52:20,205 --> 00:52:23,045 Speaker 1: she said yes, she wants to go ahead, and I 1042 00:52:23,085 --> 00:52:24,605 Speaker 1: was like, all right, cool. I was like, so you know, 1043 00:52:24,605 --> 00:52:26,965 Speaker 1: we'll get engaged in will halal date or whatever, and 1044 00:52:27,005 --> 00:52:28,525 Speaker 1: then you know, I told my uncles like yeah, she 1045 00:52:28,525 --> 00:52:30,605 Speaker 1: said yes, and he was like all right, good. He 1046 00:52:30,725 --> 00:52:32,645 Speaker 1: was like all right, go get a suit and I 1047 00:52:32,685 --> 00:52:35,285 Speaker 1: was like what he was like, He's like listen, well, 1048 00:52:35,325 --> 00:52:37,645 Speaker 1: He's like, we're in a war zone here, but we're 1049 00:52:37,645 --> 00:52:39,885 Speaker 1: not going to mess around here. He goes, you're going 1050 00:52:39,925 --> 00:52:42,605 Speaker 1: to marry this girl. And I was like, oh my god, okay, 1051 00:52:42,685 --> 00:52:45,525 Speaker 1: let's let's go do this. And there was no suits 1052 00:52:45,965 --> 00:52:50,405 Speaker 1: that would fit me in Gaza because so we ended 1053 00:52:50,445 --> 00:52:53,805 Speaker 1: up getting like this shirt that didn't even close. So 1054 00:52:53,845 --> 00:52:55,405 Speaker 1: it was me wearing a white shirt and this pink 1055 00:52:55,445 --> 00:52:59,365 Speaker 1: shirt and coincidentally, we match. She was wearing this like 1056 00:52:59,805 --> 00:53:03,725 Speaker 1: pink Palestinian dress. And you know, the crazy thing about 1057 00:53:03,725 --> 00:53:07,765 Speaker 1: all of this as well as is I I hadn't 1058 00:53:07,805 --> 00:53:11,725 Speaker 1: even seen her without her head jab so like I 1059 00:53:11,725 --> 00:53:13,685 Speaker 1: didn't know what she looked like. This was purely based 1060 00:53:13,765 --> 00:53:16,645 Speaker 1: on her as a person and as a character. And 1061 00:53:17,325 --> 00:53:18,845 Speaker 1: you know, I got married and everything like that, and 1062 00:53:18,885 --> 00:53:20,725 Speaker 1: I still hadn't seen what she looked like. And it 1063 00:53:20,765 --> 00:53:23,365 Speaker 1: was only after like the day after she came. Afterwards, 1064 00:53:24,365 --> 00:53:25,685 Speaker 1: the day after she came, and took a couple of 1065 00:53:25,765 --> 00:53:28,085 Speaker 1: days later and we hung out at my uncle's house, 1066 00:53:28,125 --> 00:53:29,805 Speaker 1: and you know, that's where I saw the first time 1067 00:53:29,845 --> 00:53:31,405 Speaker 1: about her head scoff on, and I was just like, 1068 00:53:31,485 --> 00:53:37,925 Speaker 1: oh my god, I've struggled here, you know. And you know, 1069 00:53:38,005 --> 00:53:40,245 Speaker 1: since then, we talk every single day, every single night, 1070 00:53:40,325 --> 00:53:42,965 Speaker 1: and you know, she's been so supportive of everything that 1071 00:53:43,005 --> 00:53:44,525 Speaker 1: we that I've been doing. 1072 00:53:44,485 --> 00:53:46,405 Speaker 2: And she's is she still working in the hospital. 1073 00:53:46,765 --> 00:53:49,645 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, just this morning I was speaking to 1074 00:53:49,685 --> 00:53:53,565 Speaker 1: her and she just performed a cesarean section, and the 1075 00:53:53,645 --> 00:54:00,005 Speaker 1: day before she had operated on someone's leg. Because her 1076 00:54:00,005 --> 00:54:02,845 Speaker 1: father's an orthopedic surgeon, so she she assists with him, 1077 00:54:03,045 --> 00:54:05,245 Speaker 1: and she does now the full surgeries like from A 1078 00:54:05,365 --> 00:54:08,805 Speaker 1: to B by herself. And now she's performing these sections, 1079 00:54:08,885 --> 00:54:10,845 Speaker 1: she's complete different, Like this is what I mean, Like 1080 00:54:10,925 --> 00:54:15,765 Speaker 1: she is so incredibly smart, so incredibly compassionate and kind 1081 00:54:15,965 --> 00:54:16,765 Speaker 1: and beautiful. 1082 00:54:17,565 --> 00:54:20,525 Speaker 2: And do you know when you're going to say her next? 1083 00:54:21,605 --> 00:54:25,085 Speaker 1: I hope soon, because you know she's really really struggling. 1084 00:54:25,285 --> 00:54:29,205 Speaker 1: And like I say, her home was bombed yesterday, and 1085 00:54:33,365 --> 00:54:35,885 Speaker 1: you know, I feel guilty sometimes, you know, and seeing 1086 00:54:35,925 --> 00:54:40,685 Speaker 1: family being killed every day, seeing your wife suffer, it's tough, man, 1087 00:54:40,845 --> 00:54:44,685 Speaker 1: It's it's it's tough. And do you know sometimes I 1088 00:54:44,725 --> 00:54:46,605 Speaker 1: wish I wish I wasn't in this position. I wish 1089 00:54:46,645 --> 00:54:50,325 Speaker 1: I just was just a quiet life. But you know, 1090 00:54:50,485 --> 00:54:53,525 Speaker 1: I know that my experiences in my life have shaped 1091 00:54:53,565 --> 00:54:56,885 Speaker 1: me for this moment to be ready to help. And 1092 00:54:56,925 --> 00:54:59,325 Speaker 1: this is this is now where they need me to 1093 00:54:59,365 --> 00:55:01,685 Speaker 1: stay focused and they need me not to cave into 1094 00:55:01,725 --> 00:55:04,285 Speaker 1: the pressure. And I know that the pressure now is mounting. 1095 00:55:04,605 --> 00:55:08,205 Speaker 1: It's mounting because we're close. Yeah, it's mounting because we're close. 1096 00:55:08,445 --> 00:55:11,165 Speaker 1: And you I just hope that the Prime Minister does 1097 00:55:11,285 --> 00:55:13,885 Speaker 1: eventually meet with me. You can take a bit of 1098 00:55:13,885 --> 00:55:16,525 Speaker 1: this pressure off. You know, I can't carry this all 1099 00:55:16,565 --> 00:55:17,045 Speaker 1: on my own. 1100 00:55:17,965 --> 00:55:23,245 Speaker 2: You have an enormous amount of support and I think 1101 00:55:24,005 --> 00:55:28,125 Speaker 2: in a moment that has been so divisive, it has 1102 00:55:28,365 --> 00:55:33,685 Speaker 2: broken families, it has broken communities, and this is on 1103 00:55:33,765 --> 00:55:36,205 Speaker 2: the other side of the world that's not even acknowledging 1104 00:55:36,325 --> 00:55:40,205 Speaker 2: the real crisis which is happening in Gaza. I just 1105 00:55:41,405 --> 00:55:44,645 Speaker 2: want to end by saying thank you. Thank you for 1106 00:55:44,685 --> 00:55:47,645 Speaker 2: what you do with your hands, thank you for having 1107 00:55:47,645 --> 00:55:49,605 Speaker 2: the skills that mean that you actually can make a 1108 00:55:49,605 --> 00:55:53,925 Speaker 2: tangible difference in Gaza. But also thank you for your patience, 1109 00:55:54,165 --> 00:55:56,725 Speaker 2: because this is not the first interview you've done. You've 1110 00:55:56,725 --> 00:55:58,965 Speaker 2: been doing interviews for a long time with a lot 1111 00:55:59,005 --> 00:56:03,605 Speaker 2: of people revisiting trauma, talking about some of the worst, 1112 00:56:03,765 --> 00:56:08,805 Speaker 2: most horrendous things a person could ever witness. And it 1113 00:56:08,845 --> 00:56:14,525 Speaker 2: is patient, and it is gracious, and it is truly 1114 00:56:14,685 --> 00:56:16,965 Speaker 2: truly making a difference. And I hope that when you 1115 00:56:17,045 --> 00:56:20,605 Speaker 2: get some sleep and a moment to rest, you can 1116 00:56:20,685 --> 00:56:24,485 Speaker 2: feel the gravity of what you're doing because you do 1117 00:56:24,605 --> 00:56:27,485 Speaker 2: have the Australian community behind you, you really really do. 1118 00:56:27,645 --> 00:56:30,005 Speaker 1: So I just wanted to thank you. I appreciate that, 1119 00:56:30,005 --> 00:56:31,125 Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. 1120 00:56:35,445 --> 00:56:38,485 Speaker 2: After listening, I hope you can understand why I was 1121 00:56:38,725 --> 00:56:43,245 Speaker 2: so deeply moved by our conversation. If this interview brought 1122 00:56:43,325 --> 00:56:46,405 Speaker 2: up anything for you, there are links to Lifeline and 1123 00:56:46,485 --> 00:56:50,085 Speaker 2: Beyond Blue in the show notes. If you're wondering how 1124 00:56:50,085 --> 00:56:53,805 Speaker 2: you can help, we've included links to charities and organizations 1125 00:56:53,925 --> 00:56:57,205 Speaker 2: that you can donate to in our show notes. And 1126 00:56:57,285 --> 00:57:00,445 Speaker 2: of course, if you want to continue to follow the 1127 00:57:00,485 --> 00:57:04,045 Speaker 2: work and the advocacy of doctor Mo, we have linked 1128 00:57:04,085 --> 00:57:07,805 Speaker 2: to his instagram, The Beast from the Middle East. Thank 1129 00:57:07,845 --> 00:57:11,525 Speaker 2: you for listening. The executive producer of No Filter is 1130 00:57:11,645 --> 00:57:15,725 Speaker 2: Nama Brown, the senior producer is Pre Player, and our 1131 00:57:15,765 --> 00:57:17,845 Speaker 2: audio engineer is Jacob Brown.