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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 3: And I just wanted to point out that you should

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Speaker 3: always wear underparents if you're regardless of the length of

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Speaker 3: your LaBier when you were wearing taigi.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because it would shave.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Mama Mia Out Loud, our first show of

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, and if you want to know what

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Speaker 2: the hell Miya was just talking about, you're going to

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Speaker 2: have to keep listening.

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Speaker 1: I'm Holly Wayne Wright, I'm Mea Friedman.

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Speaker 4: And I'm Jesse Stevens.

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Speaker 2: And on the show today, We're back. We are back.

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Speaker 4: I am busting to be back. I'm so excited to

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Speaker 4: be back. There are so many chats that we've been

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Speaker 4: kind of half having in our WhatsApp group. We're like, no, no, no,

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Speaker 4: we save it for the show. That's the rule.

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Speaker 1: What about how many out louders?

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Speaker 3: Because we had our emergency episode with Justin Baldonian Black

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Speaker 3: Lively and then it was like, should we have another

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Speaker 3: emergency episode?

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Speaker 4: They were like, metas made this announcement, how about this Megan?

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Speaker 4: This that Megan? She did a post and we're like, look,

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Speaker 4: we got to save something for the first show back.

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Speaker 4: This is going to be a cracker of an.

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Speaker 2: Episode, so we have got lots of that coming up.

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Speaker 2: But also in the subscriber episodes on Tuesday and Thursday

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Speaker 2: this week, we're going to be saying all the things

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Speaker 2: we were dying to say to each other about all

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Speaker 2: the news stories that have happened over the break, So make.

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Speaker 4: Sure you subscribe Golden Glow ready. Justin Baldoni update and

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Speaker 4: I am des stopped to talk about I can't believe

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Speaker 4: they did this, but there was an essay that dropped

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Speaker 4: in the cut by doctor Lily j. She is the

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Speaker 4: woman whose husband left her for Ariana Grande and it

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Speaker 4: is the most stunning ess I can't wait to dissect

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Speaker 4: her with you both.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was amazing. Did you all have a good holiday?

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Speaker 2: Really good holiday. It's a push, Paul, because I missed

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Speaker 2: you both and our team, and I wanted to talk

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Speaker 2: about all these things. But also I just love doing nothing.

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Speaker 2: Me too. I did three weeks of nothing. I'm sorry everybody,

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Speaker 2: as much nothing as you can do when you've got

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Speaker 2: children and family and friends visit. But like it was glory.

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Speaker 4: I got to last night. I thought I could do

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Speaker 4: enough three week Todt get me wrong.

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Speaker 2: I could keep holiday, except we had to come back

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Speaker 2: to talk about Meghan, because that lad has kept.

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Speaker 1: To costing us in the streets.

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Speaker 2: I was literally I was in Sydney last week and

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Speaker 2: I was out and a lady came up to me,

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Speaker 2: a very nice person, but she said.

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Speaker 1: When are you going back to work?

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Speaker 2: I was like, it's okay, Monday. She's like God anyway.

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Speaker 2: On today's show, the celebrities being scolded over their California

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Speaker 2: wildfire tears and the eerily familiar blame game playing out

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Speaker 2: across the devastation. Also why we love to argue about

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Speaker 2: Australia's most popular beach accessory, the Little Cabana, and with

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Speaker 2: love Megan, with the announcement of the Duchess's cooking show,

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Speaker 2: is our weight for jam. Finally over, I'm afraid not friends,

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Speaker 2: but first Mia.

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Speaker 3: In case you missed it, if you noticed a guy

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Speaker 3: appearing across your feeds talking about how fats are so

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty four and it's now going to be the

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Speaker 3: wild Western meta, you weren't hallucinating. That was actually Mark Zuckerberg,

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Speaker 3: the CEO of Meta, which of course includes Facebook and

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Speaker 3: Instagram and WhatsApp.

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Speaker 1: Here's a little bit of what he had to say.

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Speaker 5: Here's what we're going to do. First, We're going to

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Speaker 5: get rid of fact checkers and replace them with community

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Speaker 5: notes similar to X. Starting in the US, after Trump

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Speaker 5: first got elected in twenty sixteen, the legacy media wrote

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Speaker 5: NonStop about how misinformation was a threat to democracy. We tried,

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Speaker 5: in good faith to address those concerns without becoming the

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Speaker 5: arbiters of truth. But the fact checkers have just been

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Speaker 5: too politically biased and have destroyed more trusts than they've created,

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Speaker 5: especially in the US.

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Speaker 2: You know what, no one ever says I'd like things

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Speaker 2: to be more like they are on X except for Mark.

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Speaker 3: He says that, so look, what could possibly go wrong.

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Speaker 3: The subtext of this, of course, is that Donald Trump

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Speaker 3: is in power, and over the last few weeks all

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Speaker 3: the tech billionaires have gone to kiss the ring. The

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Speaker 3: other thing that Mark Zuckerberg announced is that the head

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Speaker 3: of World Wrestling Federation, a guy called Dana White, is

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Speaker 3: now on the board of Meta, and it's basically saying

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Speaker 3: all bets are off.

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Speaker 4: This is now bastling match. Correct, Because I read that

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Speaker 4: Mark Zuckerberg donated one million US dollars to Trump's inauguration fund,

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Speaker 4: Correct and.

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Speaker 3: Jeff Bezos paid forty million dollars to make a documentary

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Speaker 3: about Millennia Trump.

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Speaker 4: Right, So my issue here, I actually think fact checking

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Speaker 4: is really really complicated. And free speech and how you

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Speaker 4: allow conversations to happen that need to happen without projecting

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Speaker 4: your politics onto it. I think that is a really

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Speaker 4: complicated discussion. But I reckon it's fair to say that

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Speaker 4: we don't want our platforms, whether it's X, whether it's Facebook,

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Speaker 4: whether it's Instagram, being aligned with any political party. I

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Speaker 4: don't want them to be pro Biden, and I don't

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Speaker 4: want them to be pro Trump. They might be, but

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Speaker 4: I don't need to know that because I think a

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Speaker 4: platform needs to be bipartisan. Is that a fair thing?

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Speaker 3: Well, the problem is he's not talking about being partisan

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Speaker 3: now factor is considered partisans.

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Speaker 4: Yes, But what I'm saying is that knowing his relationship

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Speaker 4: with Trump, now, knowing that he's kissing the ring, knowing

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Speaker 4: that Musk is in the inner sanctum, what we're really

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Speaker 4: seeing is all of these companies go, well, our facts

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Speaker 4: are going to be determined or at the very least

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Speaker 4: influenced by the current candidate, who we all endorsed.

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Speaker 2: Now, I don't want to spread conspiracy theories because that's

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Speaker 2: the kind of thing that happens on X. But also

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Speaker 2: when Trump was in power last time, at one point

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Speaker 2: he threatened to throw Zuckerberg in jail. He has also

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Speaker 2: at different times threatened to try and work out how

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Speaker 2: to dismantle Amazon because he didn't like bees os and

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Speaker 2: what was going on at the Washington Post. So it's

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Speaker 2: quite fair to say or so that these guys are

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Speaker 2: protecting themselves.

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Speaker 4: They're protecting themselves because regulation in Silicon Valley is a

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Speaker 4: big thing, especially for like AI, like open Ai and

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Speaker 4: all of those. They don't want to be regulated. So

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Speaker 4: the more that you suck up to try, the more

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Speaker 4: he'll say, do what you like. We're not watching finger

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Speaker 4: in ow. He is la la la la lah.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting the way it's been framed, and it's you know,

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Speaker 3: very calculated obviously, and very clever and very smart from

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Speaker 3: a you know, the CEO of a publicly listed company

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Speaker 3: worth billions and billions of dollars and that potentially the

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Speaker 3: most powerful person on the planet. He's framed it quite literally.

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Speaker 3: He said the words there will be less mistakes, meaning

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Speaker 3: that some posts were taken down that shouldn't have been

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Speaker 3: taken down because fact checkers were overzealous. Less mistakes and

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Speaker 3: more free speech.

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Speaker 4: Does that mean I can put my nipple up?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: No, not no.

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Speaker 2: Can we just very quickly mention that.

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Speaker 3: But you can't say that gay people are mentally ill now?

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Speaker 3: And that's fine, but no go it.

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Speaker 2: As you mentioned, Maya, he also has a startling new look,

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Speaker 2: so Zuckerberg. He also went on Rogan. Did you see that?

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Speaker 2: He did a whole three hours on Rogan again in

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Speaker 2: his new In England, they call it a road man.

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Speaker 2: Look like he's got a chain and his hair's all scraggy,

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Speaker 2: and he like he looks he's all jacked because he's

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Speaker 2: so into his fighting now. And it's very interesting. The

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Speaker 2: midlife crisis is looking very interesting in Silicon Valley.

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Speaker 4: Since January seven, a series of wildfires have burned through

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Speaker 4: Los Angeles, so far, claiming sixteen lives. Experts believe they

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Speaker 4: are likely to be the most destructive natural disaster in

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Speaker 4: modern US history, forcing nearly one hundred and eighty thousand

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Speaker 4: people to evacuate their homes. Damaging or destroying more than

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Speaker 4: twelve thousand structures, with the cost estimated to be at

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Speaker 4: around one hundred and thirty five billion dollars. A fire

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Speaker 4: intensified by a windstorm burned through the Pacific Palisades at

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Speaker 4: the speed of three football fields a minute. Entire suburbs

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Speaker 4: have been decimated. So why and how? It's winter in LA.

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Speaker 4: This is not a time of year when fires are

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Speaker 4: even expected. Usually, A number of factors have conspired in

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Speaker 4: including severe drought. Parts of southern California have had the

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Speaker 4: driest start to the rainy season on record. Hotter weather

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Speaker 4: coupled with extreme wing conditions means the risk was unprecedented.

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Speaker 4: Of course, meteorologists environmental analysts could explain the conditions far

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Speaker 4: more comprehensively than I can. But what's interesting is how

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Speaker 4: political the discussion around these fires has quickly.

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Speaker 1: Become while they're still burning. Right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. On the one hand, broadly speaking, the left want

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Speaker 4: to talk about climate change. This happened in Australia as well.

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Speaker 4: We were warned about extreme weather events and here they are.

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Speaker 4: On the other hand, the right want to talk about

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Speaker 4: government incompetence. Billionaire Elon Musk tweeted they prioritized dei over

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Speaker 4: saving lives and homes, which he's suggesting that the Democrat

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Speaker 4: propensity to focus on diversity, equity, and inclusion has distracted

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Speaker 4: fire departments and left a state woefully unprepared for this

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Speaker 4: kind of desire. There's been this ridiculous focus on how

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Speaker 4: the three people in the fire department that are running

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Speaker 4: it all happen to be gay women, as though that's

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Speaker 4: all relevant.

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Speaker 1: That's clearly why the fire started.

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Speaker 4: Get yeah, exactly, I read it on XT.

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Speaker 2: California obviously is a blue state that's a Democrat state,

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Speaker 2: has been for a very long time and was the

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Speaker 2: focus of a lot of the Trump Musque Rogan rhetoric

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Speaker 2: even way before this leading up to the election, that

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Speaker 2: the Democrats had ruined California, etc.

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Speaker 4: Yes, so a clip has gone viral of the leader

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Speaker 4: of the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power saying

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Speaker 4: that their number one priority is equity, and that probably

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Speaker 4: hasn't aged well because it is now being criticized. Alongside

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Speaker 4: the knowledge that fire hydrants were empty, there were serious

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Speaker 4: issues with water systems, putting the diversity point to the side.

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Speaker 4: The reality is, as was outlined by Claire Limb and

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Speaker 4: over the weekend, both climate change and government in competence

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Speaker 4: are to blame. Environmentalists and fire departments of been saying

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Speaker 4: for years that we need to prevent climate change, but

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Speaker 4: we also need to be prepared for it. She quotes

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Speaker 4: an Australian volunteer firefighter named Joel Shepherd, who said, when

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Speaker 4: conditions are bad enough, no amount of firefighters can stop it,

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Speaker 4: and that's what we've seen in LA. The other discussion has,

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Speaker 4: of course been the celebrities who have lost their homes

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Speaker 4: at the time of recording. Paris Hilton, Adam Brody and

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Speaker 4: Layton Meister, Spencer and Heidi Pratt, Mel Gibson, Anthony Hopkins

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Speaker 4: and a Faris, Tina Knowles, Rebel Wilson, Mandy Moore, Jamie Lee, Curtis,

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Speaker 4: Billy Crystal, Eugene Levy. They are just a handful. Some

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Speaker 4: say they're rich. We don't want to hear the stories.

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Speaker 4: It's a distraction. They can afford to replace everything. Here's

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Speaker 4: Spencer Pratt. He used to be on a show in

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Speaker 4: the twenty tens called The Hills. Here's him responding to

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Speaker 4: the commentary in the wake of losing his home.

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Speaker 6: Funny thinking about the Internet is most times people are

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Speaker 6: always trying me, like saying how broke we are, and like, oh,

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Speaker 6: you're so broke. You TikTok battle like you're broke and

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Speaker 6: our house burns and everyone's like, oh, you're a millionaire.

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Speaker 6: You're a millionaire, You're so rich. Like which is it?

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Speaker 6: Are we broke or are we millionaires? Trolls got to

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Speaker 6: figure it out.

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Speaker 4: Holly, where do you sit in terms of whether we

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Speaker 4: should have compassion for the celebrities.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think we should have compassion for everybody. Like,

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Speaker 2: broadly speaking, I mean the thing that's really confronting and

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Speaker 2: different about this. So Australians broadly we know about fire, right,

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Speaker 2: we absolutely do. The twenty nineteen twenty twenty fires here

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Speaker 2: were world news for their ferocity, for their scale, for

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Speaker 2: their loss. Right. In fact, listening to the Quickie this morning,

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Speaker 2: there was a woman, an Australian in La who says

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Speaker 2: that walking around La at the minute is absolutely like

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Speaker 2: walking around Sydney. Then, in terms of the black skies,

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Speaker 2: the air quality, the masks, remember when our kids were

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Speaker 2: allowed to play outside at school. It's that, but it's

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Speaker 2: on steroids because of the urban setting of this. Right,

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Speaker 2: So we're used to seeing fire devastation, but we're not

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Speaker 2: really used to seeing entire cities, suburbs wipe down and

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Speaker 2: city buildings burned, took the ground. So that's really different.

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Speaker 2: The other thing that's really different is these fires are

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Speaker 2: happening in basically the center of our culture, our pop culture.

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Speaker 2: I mean, so where a lot of our news and

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Speaker 2: our content creators and our high profile people are is

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Speaker 2: on fire. So my daughter, for example, knows everything about

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Speaker 2: this because it's just her TikTok feed and every creator

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Speaker 2: that she follows is posting about it, and not everything

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Speaker 2: on there is true. So she came to me very

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Speaker 2: confidently saying, I've seen the Hollywood Sign burning down. It's gone.

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Speaker 2: It isn't gone. There was just a very good AI

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Speaker 2: video of that. And equally with the politicization, as with everything,

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Speaker 2: as we were just talking about with Facebook, there are

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Speaker 2: lots of different sets of facts. So Donald Trump immediately

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Speaker 2: posted about the empty fire hydrants. That sounds terrible. There

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Speaker 2: wasn't enough order in the fire hydrants. When you read

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Speaker 2: a little deeper, Just like with everything, there are a

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Speaker 2: million reasons why there weren't. At that time, it was

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Speaker 2: keeping up with the unbelievable demand. It's about the fact

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Speaker 2: they turn the power off to stop fires. There's a

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Speaker 2: million different reasons of why. But this natural disaster is

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Speaker 2: playing out in a place that we are always watching,

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Speaker 2: so now we get to watch this. And in terms

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Speaker 2: of the celebrities, what I'm mostly seeing is celebrities doing

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Speaker 2: really good stuff. I'm seeing lots of celebrities volunteering and

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Speaker 2: shining a light on what needs to be done, like

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Speaker 2: volunteering down, folding up clothes, sending money and then saying

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Speaker 2: you should send money to and again that's Australians did

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Speaker 2: the same thing in the fires. Remember Celest Barber raising

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Speaker 2: all that money for the firefighters that then became controversial

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Speaker 2: within itself. Remember lots of high profile people going and

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Speaker 2: packing essentials boxes to send down the New South Wales

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Speaker 2: coast or down to Victoria and then encouraging other people

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Speaker 2: to do that. I'm generally seeing high profile people using

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Speaker 2: their profile for good in this in the middle of

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Speaker 2: losing everything themselves.

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Speaker 4: So I think probably LA has a sort of a

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Speaker 4: brand problem in that people do associate it with celebrity,

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Speaker 4: and of course people who live there. The vast majority

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Speaker 4: of people who have lost their homes. Are not celebrities

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Speaker 4: and are not rich necessarily, and I also think there's

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Speaker 4: a difference between being famous and rich, and that's what

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00:14:19,942 --> 00:14:22,902
Speaker 4: Spencer Pratt was sort of getting at. Losing your home

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Speaker 4: is losing your home. It's so unimaginable, it's so devastating,

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Speaker 4: and Australians know that better than most. There was a great,

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Speaker 4: really affecting post by John Mayer who posted an image

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Speaker 4: of it was like a photo album, and he said

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Speaker 4: that what's lost in fire is you can talk about

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Speaker 4: stuff and possessions, but sometimes it's proof of life. It's

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Speaker 4: proof that people even existed. In this album where pictures

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Speaker 4: and documents related to his father in this incredible life

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Speaker 4: he lived. When that's gone, there's no proof your mother

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Speaker 4: or your grandmother even existed, and that is something that

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00:14:56,142 --> 00:14:59,342
Speaker 4: people are grappling with in this town, famous or not.

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Speaker 4: I've found the rhetoric of just like boohoo, celebrities losing

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Speaker 4: their homes really confronting because it's like we think compassion

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Speaker 4: is a pie something and you there's a finite amount.

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Speaker 4: Rather than going, oh, that's really sad. I feel also

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Speaker 4: really really horrible for the people whose insurance lapsed so

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Speaker 4: the insurance premiums. Either insurance went, we're not going to

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Speaker 4: ensure your home this was last year, or we're gonna

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Speaker 4: make it, you know, three times the cost. So a

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Speaker 4: lot of people went can't afford it, and people who

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Speaker 4: have had homes for thirty years just burned down. What

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Speaker 4: do you do then, like, oh, my goodness, But I

301
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Speaker 4: think you can feel sorry for everyone.

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Speaker 3: At the same time, I'm reminded that we're very uncomfortable

303
00:15:43,982 --> 00:15:48,502
Speaker 3: with feeling sad or scared or despairing, and it's much

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00:15:48,582 --> 00:15:53,662
Speaker 3: more energizing to feel angry. And we see this again

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00:15:53,702 --> 00:15:58,262
Speaker 3: and again and again when something you know, unavoidable, larger

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Speaker 3: than anyone can control, something that's arguably nobody's actual fault.

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00:16:04,222 --> 00:16:06,022
Speaker 4: I understand natural disaster. Right.

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Speaker 3: It's almost like the beginning of COVID where everybody he

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00:16:09,782 --> 00:16:12,702
Speaker 3: was singing in the balconies and it was all like, wow,

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00:16:12,742 --> 00:16:15,182
Speaker 3: it's so combaya on the internet. This is so weird.

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00:16:15,222 --> 00:16:18,502
Speaker 3: No one's angry. And then straightaway, when it went on

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00:16:18,582 --> 00:16:21,302
Speaker 3: for too long and we didn't like feeling sad and scared,

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Speaker 3: we became angry. And then it became wildly politicized, and

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Speaker 3: we see this happening earlier and earlier in the news cycle.

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Speaker 3: I think you made a really good point, Jesse, about

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Speaker 3: the difference between fame and wealth, and I think that

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00:16:35,222 --> 00:16:41,142
Speaker 3: what fires do are beyond measure of just money, you know.

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Speaker 3: I was just talking to Michelle Battersby, who's in the

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Speaker 3: office working on something for us, and she lives in

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Speaker 3: LA and she's out here with her son and her baby.

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Speaker 3: She said, three women in her mother's group who've just

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Speaker 3: had new babies, they've all lost their homes.

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Speaker 1: And I keep.

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Speaker 3: Thinking about what happens when literally everything's gone where you've

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00:17:01,222 --> 00:17:02,822
Speaker 3: got nowhere to go back.

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Speaker 1: To, Like, literally, what do you do?

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00:17:03,982 --> 00:17:07,061
Speaker 3: You've got no clothes, you've got no documents, your children

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00:17:07,142 --> 00:17:09,782
Speaker 3: have nothing. You might be ensured, you might be not.

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Speaker 3: But even if you are insured, even if you're wealthy,

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Speaker 3: literally what do you do. You don't have a toothbrush,

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Speaker 3: you don't have a face cream, you don't have your

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00:17:19,141 --> 00:17:22,741
Speaker 3: birth control, like your medication, you script, like all of

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00:17:22,782 --> 00:17:27,381
Speaker 3: those things. Where do you even begin? And it feels

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00:17:27,381 --> 00:17:30,941
Speaker 3: like there's just no space for that. Mandy Moore, the

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Speaker 3: actress who's married to a guy in a band, her

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Speaker 3: house burnt down, her brother in law and sister in

337
00:17:37,182 --> 00:17:39,821
Speaker 3: law who lived next door. Their house burnt down too,

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Speaker 3: and they'reabout to have a baby. And she posted a

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00:17:43,982 --> 00:17:48,182
Speaker 3: go fund me for them that someone had made and

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Speaker 3: got slammed for you've got all these millions of dollars,

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Speaker 3: why don't you just buy them a new house.

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Speaker 4: I'm sure she's what she can.

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Speaker 3: She did, and she rightly pushed back, and she actually said,

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Speaker 3: fuck off. You can't just google what you think someone

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00:18:01,581 --> 00:18:04,461
Speaker 3: is worth. Believe that, and then, of course we are helping,

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00:18:04,502 --> 00:18:06,901
Speaker 3: but I'm sharing a go fund me and you have

347
00:18:07,061 --> 00:18:11,701
Speaker 3: no idea. Everybody has lost everything. And when people are

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00:18:11,702 --> 00:18:15,182
Speaker 3: looking at what they can do. I saw Jean Smart

349
00:18:15,222 --> 00:18:17,581
Speaker 3: just one of Golden Globe for her work on hacks.

350
00:18:18,182 --> 00:18:21,501
Speaker 3: She posted on Instagram saying, I hope that we are

351
00:18:21,542 --> 00:18:23,701
Speaker 3: going to cancel all the awards shows that are coming up,

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00:18:23,742 --> 00:18:25,982
Speaker 3: and there are so many, from the Grammys to the SAgs,

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Speaker 3: to the Oscars of course.

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Speaker 1: And many more.

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Speaker 3: I hope all of them will be canceled and all

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Speaker 3: that money will go to fire relief and supporting the victims.

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00:18:34,742 --> 00:18:37,221
Speaker 3: Now people feel very conflicted about that, as they should.

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Speaker 3: In one hand, it seems obscene to be let's go

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Speaker 3: and put on one hundred thousand dollar dress and wear

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Speaker 3: diamonds and walk on a red carpet and talk about

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Speaker 3: who did our hair while people literally sitting in rubble.

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Speaker 3: But on the other hand, it is a work in

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Speaker 3: town la and it's not just the people on the

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00:18:54,542 --> 00:18:57,421
Speaker 3: red carpet. It is the stylus, the cater is the

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Speaker 3: people who supply everything the way stuff. So if you

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00:19:01,661 --> 00:19:05,662
Speaker 3: do cancel all of that, you're crippling those communities even more.

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Speaker 2: As you say, Jesse, compassion has no limits. I feel

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00:19:08,542 --> 00:19:10,821
Speaker 2: terrible for anybody. There is no doubt that if you

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00:19:10,942 --> 00:19:13,101
Speaker 2: have the means to get out of the fire zone,

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00:19:13,222 --> 00:19:15,901
Speaker 2: be staying somewhere else, and you know you've got people

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00:19:15,942 --> 00:19:18,101
Speaker 2: with you, and you at the Beverly Hilton or whatever,

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00:19:18,262 --> 00:19:20,901
Speaker 2: you're doing better than lots of people who can't do that. Right,

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Speaker 2: There's no question that there are degrees of devastation. But

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00:19:24,702 --> 00:19:27,661
Speaker 2: the thing is, as you've said, me about what natural

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00:19:27,661 --> 00:19:30,221
Speaker 2: disasters do. And plenty of people in Australia know a

376
00:19:30,222 --> 00:19:32,141
Speaker 2: lot about this. If you've been in the flood zones

377
00:19:32,141 --> 00:19:34,742
Speaker 2: in Lismore, if you were in the burnt out towns

378
00:19:34,742 --> 00:19:37,181
Speaker 2: in southern New South Wales, in those years. You know

379
00:19:37,381 --> 00:19:40,061
Speaker 2: the amount that the emergency services have to do to

380
00:19:40,141 --> 00:19:42,941
Speaker 2: help you when you have literally lost everything. That's a

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00:19:42,982 --> 00:19:45,622
Speaker 2: massive operation that costs a lot of money too. And

382
00:19:45,661 --> 00:19:47,381
Speaker 2: one of the things is, I mean, I think we

383
00:19:47,422 --> 00:19:50,621
Speaker 2: all remember very well that after those fires when Scomo

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00:19:50,782 --> 00:19:53,821
Speaker 2: Scott Morrison, the Prime Minster of the time, probably the

385
00:19:53,901 --> 00:19:56,581
Speaker 2: thing that put the biggest nail in his political coffin

386
00:19:56,661 --> 00:19:58,982
Speaker 2: was that I don't hold a hosemte comment that he

387
00:19:59,022 --> 00:20:02,262
Speaker 2: made after that when he was on holiday when that happened.

388
00:20:02,302 --> 00:20:05,101
Speaker 2: And a similar thing has happened here where the mayor

389
00:20:05,141 --> 00:20:07,102
Speaker 2: of California she wasn't on holiday, but she was on

390
00:20:07,302 --> 00:20:11,141
Speaker 2: a trip overseas when this happened. And everybody needs somewhere

391
00:20:11,141 --> 00:20:13,462
Speaker 2: to put their anger, as you've said, Mia, and some

392
00:20:13,542 --> 00:20:16,302
Speaker 2: of those places are valid because it is true that

393
00:20:16,341 --> 00:20:18,862
Speaker 2: now we do live in a time of climate catastrophe,

394
00:20:18,861 --> 00:20:21,501
Speaker 2: whether all sides of politics want to admit it or not.

395
00:20:22,182 --> 00:20:24,262
Speaker 2: We've got to think much harder about where people live,

396
00:20:24,262 --> 00:20:27,221
Speaker 2: where people rebuild, what you do in these circumstances. But

397
00:20:27,262 --> 00:20:29,381
Speaker 2: Scomo said I don't hold a hose, and then he

398
00:20:29,462 --> 00:20:31,502
Speaker 2: went and turned up at some of these places and

399
00:20:31,542 --> 00:20:34,782
Speaker 2: people refused to shake his hand. They were furious with him,

400
00:20:35,222 --> 00:20:39,501
Speaker 2: because when you have lost everything, you need to feel

401
00:20:39,542 --> 00:20:42,581
Speaker 2: like everybody thinks that that is the most important and

402
00:20:42,661 --> 00:20:44,622
Speaker 2: terrible disaster as it is.

403
00:20:44,942 --> 00:20:48,022
Speaker 3: I'm also reminded that we live in the era where

404
00:20:48,061 --> 00:20:51,262
Speaker 3: everybody has to have a hot take. It's like, quick,

405
00:20:51,262 --> 00:20:53,782
Speaker 3: what's your opinion, what's your hot take on this situation?

406
00:20:54,182 --> 00:20:57,581
Speaker 4: Or I see everything through the prism of ex world events,

407
00:20:58,022 --> 00:21:00,701
Speaker 4: which a world event needs to be seen on its

408
00:21:00,742 --> 00:21:01,302
Speaker 4: own terms.

409
00:21:01,341 --> 00:21:03,621
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, the other thing is and this is

410
00:21:03,661 --> 00:21:06,022
Speaker 2: not true of course for all of the celebrities and

411
00:21:06,022 --> 00:21:08,262
Speaker 2: the wealthy people in those neighborhoods. But one of the

412
00:21:08,302 --> 00:21:11,821
Speaker 2: other things that is increasing the anger are the stories

413
00:21:11,861 --> 00:21:15,021
Speaker 2: around things like private firefighters. Can you explain that this

414
00:21:15,141 --> 00:21:17,542
Speaker 2: first came up in the last round of well not

415
00:21:17,581 --> 00:21:20,342
Speaker 2: the last round, but another round of fires in twenty nineteen,

416
00:21:20,422 --> 00:21:23,181
Speaker 2: where Kim Kardashian and her then husband Kanye West were

417
00:21:23,222 --> 00:21:26,421
Speaker 2: found to have employed a private team of firefighters to

418
00:21:26,462 --> 00:21:30,341
Speaker 2: protect their home during the blazes. Now, at the time,

419
00:21:30,422 --> 00:21:33,821
Speaker 2: she came out and said, yes, but they also put

420
00:21:33,861 --> 00:21:36,461
Speaker 2: out fires all around us and help my neighbors and whatever.

421
00:21:36,542 --> 00:21:40,982
Speaker 2: But private firefighters are a big thing in wealthy communities

422
00:21:40,982 --> 00:21:44,341
Speaker 2: in fire zones, because if you can afford to pay

423
00:21:44,341 --> 00:21:46,261
Speaker 2: somebody to come and sit outside your house in these

424
00:21:46,302 --> 00:21:50,061
Speaker 2: special white fans I've seen the imagery and fight your fire,

425
00:21:50,742 --> 00:21:52,742
Speaker 2: then you might do that if you are as rich

426
00:21:52,742 --> 00:21:55,782
Speaker 2: as Kim Kardashian is. Oprah Winfrey famously did this in Hawaii.

427
00:21:55,821 --> 00:21:59,381
Speaker 2: She got absolutely smashed for it. The arguments are obviously

428
00:21:59,462 --> 00:22:03,182
Speaker 2: that that takes resources away from the public resource and

429
00:22:03,222 --> 00:22:05,782
Speaker 2: that you know, we're playing a game of whose house

430
00:22:05,861 --> 00:22:08,782
Speaker 2: is worth saving who isn't. So I understand some of

431
00:22:08,821 --> 00:22:11,502
Speaker 2: that frustration, and there is no question that the people

432
00:22:11,502 --> 00:22:14,181
Speaker 2: who are always worst off in any natural disaster are

433
00:22:14,222 --> 00:22:17,422
Speaker 2: the most vulnerable people. But it does just seem very

434
00:22:17,502 --> 00:22:22,021
Speaker 2: ungenerous to be in any way sneery or smug about

435
00:22:22,022 --> 00:22:24,662
Speaker 2: seeing what we term privileged people suffering.

436
00:22:24,982 --> 00:22:28,302
Speaker 3: In a moment slipslop and slap downs at the beach,

437
00:22:28,661 --> 00:22:32,341
Speaker 3: we're dusting off the sand from Summer's beach Kabana drama

438
00:22:32,581 --> 00:22:33,582
Speaker 3: after the break.

439
00:22:37,381 --> 00:22:40,661
Speaker 7: Well, that's not on one of the great things about Australia.

440
00:22:40,742 --> 00:22:43,742
Speaker 7: Unlike some parts of the world. You go and you've

441
00:22:43,742 --> 00:22:46,861
Speaker 7: got to pay to go to the beach. Here, everyone

442
00:22:46,901 --> 00:22:51,582
Speaker 7: owns the beach everyone. It's a place where every Australian

443
00:22:51,782 --> 00:22:56,341
Speaker 7: is equal, and that's a breach of that principle really,

444
00:22:56,502 --> 00:23:00,022
Speaker 7: to think that you can reserve a little spot as

445
00:23:00,341 --> 00:23:00,942
Speaker 7: just yours.

446
00:23:01,141 --> 00:23:03,101
Speaker 3: If you had one eye on the news over summer,

447
00:23:03,302 --> 00:23:05,782
Speaker 3: you might have been a little bit confused to see

448
00:23:06,302 --> 00:23:10,381
Speaker 3: our PM Anthony Arbernezi wade into a war that broke

449
00:23:10,422 --> 00:23:13,982
Speaker 3: out over beach cabanas. It was a pretty compelling piece

450
00:23:14,022 --> 00:23:18,981
Speaker 3: of summer drama when Australian beaches became this battleground for

451
00:23:19,061 --> 00:23:22,982
Speaker 3: what locals are calling cabanagate, which is this turf war

452
00:23:23,101 --> 00:23:28,782
Speaker 3: over beach real estate. That caught everybody's attention, including our

453
00:23:29,022 --> 00:23:32,621
Speaker 3: beloved m Vernon, who wrote about it for Mamma Maya.

454
00:23:32,782 --> 00:23:36,702
Speaker 3: She said, the sound of calming waves she was talking

455
00:23:36,702 --> 00:23:39,542
Speaker 3: about being at the beach has been replaced by the loud,

456
00:23:39,581 --> 00:23:43,101
Speaker 3: slapping noise of fabric against wind. I could hear a

457
00:23:43,141 --> 00:23:45,822
Speaker 3: man yelling, oh, we need more sound for the weights.

458
00:23:46,222 --> 00:23:48,302
Speaker 3: I could also hear a kid yelling can I help.

459
00:23:48,621 --> 00:23:51,022
Speaker 3: I could hear a girl around my age again yelling,

460
00:23:51,141 --> 00:23:54,142
Speaker 3: I reckon, we'll fit into this spot. Annoyed and curious,

461
00:23:54,182 --> 00:23:56,141
Speaker 3: I opened my eyes to see what this sudden commotion

462
00:23:56,262 --> 00:23:58,621
Speaker 3: was about. And that was my first experience with a gang,

463
00:23:58,782 --> 00:24:02,181
Speaker 3: a gang of cabanas. She talks about how the cabana

464
00:24:02,262 --> 00:24:04,861
Speaker 3: gang come in herds of two to ten people. They're

465
00:24:04,901 --> 00:24:08,462
Speaker 3: lined up side by side, not just shielding them from

466
00:24:08,462 --> 00:24:11,661
Speaker 3: the sun, but also building the view from everybody else.

467
00:24:12,462 --> 00:24:16,302
Speaker 3: There's this big drama about it, which I hadn't realized

468
00:24:16,381 --> 00:24:17,901
Speaker 3: was happening. I don't spend a lot of time on

469
00:24:17,942 --> 00:24:20,421
Speaker 3: the beach. I don't mind being near the beach going

470
00:24:20,581 --> 00:24:23,022
Speaker 3: like literally, I walk across the sand, jump in the water,

471
00:24:23,462 --> 00:24:26,741
Speaker 3: and then leave. I don't linger on the beach. But

472
00:24:26,821 --> 00:24:29,701
Speaker 3: I did notice these little mini cities were at the

473
00:24:29,702 --> 00:24:32,461
Speaker 3: beach for a little while. Jesse and I up the

474
00:24:32,502 --> 00:24:35,901
Speaker 3: north coast of New South Wales, and it was like

475
00:24:36,341 --> 00:24:38,782
Speaker 3: a mini city of all these stripe cabarnets.

476
00:24:39,141 --> 00:24:41,702
Speaker 4: I have such strong feelings about this. I have always

477
00:24:41,742 --> 00:24:47,942
Speaker 4: sensed that there is hear me out something slightly classiest

478
00:24:48,462 --> 00:24:53,022
Speaker 4: about this discussion. So I grew up in the outer

479
00:24:53,101 --> 00:24:54,941
Speaker 4: suburbs of Sydney. Right, if I were going to the

480
00:24:54,942 --> 00:24:58,262
Speaker 4: beach as a kid, yeah, it was taking us an

481
00:24:58,302 --> 00:25:01,261
Speaker 4: hour at least, right, especially on a hot summer's day.

482
00:25:01,262 --> 00:25:02,941
Speaker 4: It's taking you a really long time. This can to

483
00:25:02,982 --> 00:25:04,861
Speaker 4: take you an hour to get to the beach. Yeah,

484
00:25:05,061 --> 00:25:07,861
Speaker 4: you do something called a beach day. I've had this

485
00:25:07,942 --> 00:25:10,462
Speaker 4: discussion with my husband before because he grew up close

486
00:25:10,502 --> 00:25:12,621
Speaker 4: to the beach and he doesn't have a concept of

487
00:25:12,621 --> 00:25:15,182
Speaker 4: a beach day for him. You go to the beach,

488
00:25:15,222 --> 00:25:17,061
Speaker 4: you duck in, and you get out because the beach

489
00:25:17,101 --> 00:25:19,982
Speaker 4: has always been something close to you. If you're someone

490
00:25:20,061 --> 00:25:21,381
Speaker 4: who is not close to a beach, you have a

491
00:25:21,422 --> 00:25:25,341
Speaker 4: beach day. And a beach day requires you to bring

492
00:25:25,542 --> 00:25:28,981
Speaker 4: an eski with food in it. Yeah, all of your things,

493
00:25:29,502 --> 00:25:31,502
Speaker 4: save up for parking because that's going to cost you

494
00:25:31,621 --> 00:25:35,902
Speaker 4: three hundred bucks. And you need shade. You need shade

495
00:25:35,982 --> 00:25:38,821
Speaker 4: because you are going to sit on a beach, probably

496
00:25:38,901 --> 00:25:42,542
Speaker 4: with kids, for a really long time. And I love

497
00:25:42,581 --> 00:25:44,502
Speaker 4: Australian beach so I think they're the best beaches in

498
00:25:44,502 --> 00:25:46,902
Speaker 4: the world. Don't have a lot of shade. A lot

499
00:25:46,942 --> 00:25:49,461
Speaker 4: of them really really don't. You have lots of sand

500
00:25:49,542 --> 00:25:50,382
Speaker 4: and no shade.

501
00:25:50,422 --> 00:25:52,462
Speaker 3: But what I don't understand is why this is new,

502
00:25:52,502 --> 00:25:55,302
Speaker 3: because I remember growing up in the seventies and eighties

503
00:25:55,341 --> 00:25:57,661
Speaker 3: we had igloos, so they were like these little dome

504
00:25:57,782 --> 00:25:59,742
Speaker 3: things new because it were the same.

505
00:25:59,821 --> 00:26:01,741
Speaker 2: Because if you look at these cities, they're all the

506
00:26:01,782 --> 00:26:04,982
Speaker 2: same thing. It's one brand of cabana. They are not cheap.

507
00:26:05,141 --> 00:26:07,342
Speaker 2: So although I agree with you about the classest thing

508
00:26:07,381 --> 00:26:10,222
Speaker 2: there about proximity to the beach Jesse, they're also a

509
00:26:10,222 --> 00:26:12,381
Speaker 2: bit of a state of symbol because they're very lovely

510
00:26:12,462 --> 00:26:14,181
Speaker 2: to look at their color.

511
00:26:14,782 --> 00:26:16,941
Speaker 1: They're black, a few hundred bucks.

512
00:26:17,061 --> 00:26:19,661
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're all cool cabana. They were designed by a

513
00:26:19,702 --> 00:26:21,861
Speaker 2: guy in the Sunshine Coast who is now richer than

514
00:26:22,022 --> 00:26:23,502
Speaker 2: God because.

515
00:26:23,262 --> 00:26:24,381
Speaker 4: They needed to invest in it.

516
00:26:24,422 --> 00:26:26,621
Speaker 2: They are one hundred percent of state of symbol.

517
00:26:27,341 --> 00:26:30,381
Speaker 3: Safer than umbrellas because that we also used to have umbrellas, right,

518
00:26:30,422 --> 00:26:33,262
Speaker 3: and then they would impale people when the wind.

519
00:26:33,061 --> 00:26:35,542
Speaker 4: Gets Yes, that's safer than umbrellas. And as a thirty

520
00:26:35,581 --> 00:26:39,302
Speaker 4: four year old who has two sizeable scars from skin cancer,

521
00:26:39,702 --> 00:26:41,661
Speaker 4: I don't care what you're doing if you're under some

522
00:26:41,702 --> 00:26:43,941
Speaker 4: sort of shade, and then these families often you know

523
00:26:43,982 --> 00:26:46,981
Speaker 4: you've got rashes, you've got the sunnies, you've got sunscreen on.

524
00:26:47,422 --> 00:26:50,341
Speaker 4: That's how Australians need to be going to the peach.

525
00:26:50,702 --> 00:26:54,701
Speaker 2: I agree with that, but I also instinctively agree with

526
00:26:54,782 --> 00:26:58,141
Speaker 2: Albo right, because the thing about the cabana is they're big,

527
00:26:58,302 --> 00:27:01,181
Speaker 2: much bigger than an umbrella. The way that shade works

528
00:27:01,381 --> 00:27:03,581
Speaker 2: is you put it up. The shade is not directly

529
00:27:03,661 --> 00:27:06,061
Speaker 2: under your cabana. Very often the shade is behind it,

530
00:27:06,182 --> 00:27:07,622
Speaker 2: or to the left or the right, depend on where

531
00:27:07,621 --> 00:27:10,381
Speaker 2: the sod is. So you have now bought your a

532
00:27:10,502 --> 00:27:12,542
Speaker 2: three meter square part of the beach and all the

533
00:27:12,581 --> 00:27:15,101
Speaker 2: surrounding shade because you own that shit, because you turned

534
00:27:15,141 --> 00:27:18,421
Speaker 2: up and pitched your tent. So you are pushing everybody

535
00:27:18,422 --> 00:27:21,061
Speaker 2: else out of your zone. And although I agree with

536
00:27:21,101 --> 00:27:23,101
Speaker 2: you Jesse, you're a one hundred percent right about the

537
00:27:23,141 --> 00:27:25,342
Speaker 2: fact that if you live further from the beach, it's

538
00:27:25,381 --> 00:27:28,542
Speaker 2: a mission to get there. And therefore the great Australian

539
00:27:28,621 --> 00:27:31,341
Speaker 2: dream of being able to just grab your towel, a book,

540
00:27:31,542 --> 00:27:34,302
Speaker 2: your sonny's, some sunscreen and walking to the beach or

541
00:27:34,381 --> 00:27:36,221
Speaker 2: jumping on a bus and going to the beach is

542
00:27:36,341 --> 00:27:40,742
Speaker 2: kind of dependent on distance. We are making every outing

543
00:27:41,022 --> 00:27:43,861
Speaker 2: and everything we do so high maintenance. Now that you

544
00:27:43,942 --> 00:27:46,262
Speaker 2: have to have a cabana and the eski with three

545
00:27:46,262 --> 00:27:50,182
Speaker 2: frozen water bottles and the sandproof beach towels and inflatables

546
00:27:50,182 --> 00:27:53,742
Speaker 2: for the kids and beach cricket, and it's like everything

547
00:27:53,782 --> 00:27:56,101
Speaker 2: doesn't have to be such a big deal. And also

548
00:27:56,182 --> 00:27:57,941
Speaker 2: you don't get to own that bit of the beach.

549
00:27:58,141 --> 00:28:00,341
Speaker 2: It causes tension every time.

550
00:28:00,222 --> 00:28:02,421
Speaker 4: I reckon that we don't know how to share public

551
00:28:02,462 --> 00:28:03,262
Speaker 4: spaces anymore.

552
00:28:03,341 --> 00:28:05,381
Speaker 2: Well we do. What you do is you don't steal

553
00:28:05,462 --> 00:28:07,462
Speaker 2: shade from the person sitting next to.

554
00:28:07,661 --> 00:28:10,941
Speaker 4: Even steal shade, steal mean some of the beach. You

555
00:28:10,982 --> 00:28:12,061
Speaker 4: put up a cabana.

556
00:28:12,141 --> 00:28:13,621
Speaker 2: Do you feel if you put your cabana up and

557
00:28:13,661 --> 00:28:15,501
Speaker 2: someone you don't know comes and sits under it, you

558
00:28:15,502 --> 00:28:17,222
Speaker 2: would not like that a second.

559
00:28:17,302 --> 00:28:19,341
Speaker 4: I'm putting a picnic rug down on a pack and

560
00:28:19,381 --> 00:28:20,381
Speaker 4: someone comes and sits on.

561
00:28:21,381 --> 00:28:24,182
Speaker 2: But beach is two. It's like taking up six.

562
00:28:25,222 --> 00:28:27,501
Speaker 4: This is the thing, even like I see images of Bondai,

563
00:28:27,502 --> 00:28:30,901
Speaker 4: a woman in the North Coast Australian beaches very big,

564
00:28:31,422 --> 00:28:34,422
Speaker 4: very big. I was at one over the break where

565
00:28:34,422 --> 00:28:36,142
Speaker 4: I looked and I went, oh, there's no more room

566
00:28:36,182 --> 00:28:39,622
Speaker 4: for a cabana. There really isn't. But that's how public

567
00:28:39,661 --> 00:28:44,022
Speaker 4: space means. That strangers annoy you. That's what going outside.

568
00:28:43,582 --> 00:28:46,822
Speaker 2: Of your home is your beach cabana. That's meaning I

569
00:28:46,862 --> 00:28:47,662
Speaker 2: can't sit there.

570
00:28:47,862 --> 00:28:51,662
Speaker 4: You can sit there to my right, to my legs, because.

571
00:28:51,222 --> 00:28:54,822
Speaker 2: I'll get there earlier of them. So although I totally

572
00:28:54,822 --> 00:28:56,261
Speaker 2: get it right, I've seen the fight in the out

573
00:28:56,302 --> 00:28:58,981
Speaker 2: louders group. I'm someone with children. Loads of my friends

574
00:28:58,982 --> 00:29:01,102
Speaker 2: have these. We go to the beach and we put

575
00:29:01,102 --> 00:29:03,661
Speaker 2: them up and the kids. I get it, But do

576
00:29:03,742 --> 00:29:06,302
Speaker 2: I like them? No? I don't because I don't want

577
00:29:06,302 --> 00:29:08,142
Speaker 2: to go to a beach and just see a whole

578
00:29:08,142 --> 00:29:09,421
Speaker 2: load of basically building.

579
00:29:09,582 --> 00:29:10,582
Speaker 1: What about skin cancer?

580
00:29:10,702 --> 00:29:12,742
Speaker 2: Go sit in the shed, or don't spend on the

581
00:29:12,782 --> 00:29:14,981
Speaker 2: beech shade at the beach. Go and find a tree,

582
00:29:15,102 --> 00:29:17,062
Speaker 2: sit under a tree, or don't spend the whole day

583
00:29:17,062 --> 00:29:17,462
Speaker 2: at the beach.

584
00:29:17,542 --> 00:29:19,582
Speaker 4: I have found this. I'd look cover up t shirt

585
00:29:19,702 --> 00:29:22,582
Speaker 4: since I've had a baby as well, and you need

586
00:29:22,622 --> 00:29:25,222
Speaker 4: a different level because you're so conscious when it's a baby.

587
00:29:25,702 --> 00:29:27,862
Speaker 4: I have not been able to find any shade on

588
00:29:27,902 --> 00:29:29,941
Speaker 4: a beach pretty much. I've always had to bring like

589
00:29:29,982 --> 00:29:31,782
Speaker 4: even if it's a I don't have one because I

590
00:29:31,822 --> 00:29:33,822
Speaker 4: wouldn't know how to put it up. But I've got

591
00:29:33,822 --> 00:29:35,742
Speaker 4: like a little thing that I sometimes use with her.

592
00:29:36,102 --> 00:29:38,582
Speaker 4: I actually reckon that a lot of this, and I

593
00:29:38,622 --> 00:29:40,822
Speaker 4: think this was in how you're introducing it. Maya. You

594
00:29:40,862 --> 00:29:43,702
Speaker 4: said something about the word locals. I think in Australia

595
00:29:43,742 --> 00:29:48,262
Speaker 4: there is this tension between my beach my local. I

596
00:29:48,302 --> 00:29:50,702
Speaker 4: hate it when tourists. I hear it in Bondi, where

597
00:29:50,702 --> 00:29:52,981
Speaker 4: I like the time, and people hate the idea that

598
00:29:53,022 --> 00:29:55,582
Speaker 4: people from that suburb is coming over to my place

599
00:29:55,622 --> 00:29:56,702
Speaker 4: with their ten This is.

600
00:29:57,182 --> 00:29:59,181
Speaker 2: Sorry, but there are plenty of Bondai people who have

601
00:29:59,262 --> 00:30:02,862
Speaker 2: cabanas like they are quite a cool chee chee thing

602
00:30:02,942 --> 00:30:06,142
Speaker 2: to have that posh people have, so I don't Although

603
00:30:06,182 --> 00:30:08,421
Speaker 2: I agree with you to a point, I also think

604
00:30:08,822 --> 00:30:12,342
Speaker 2: that it's not that simple. My question is, as the

605
00:30:12,382 --> 00:30:14,622
Speaker 2: sun moves, because that's how the world works, and your

606
00:30:14,661 --> 00:30:18,062
Speaker 2: shade moves around, do I have to keep moving so

607
00:30:18,062 --> 00:30:19,741
Speaker 2: that I don't steal your shade?

608
00:30:19,862 --> 00:30:22,302
Speaker 3: Yeah? I don't understand how that works either. But what

609
00:30:22,342 --> 00:30:25,582
Speaker 3: it is like is when I lived in Italy, my

610
00:30:25,661 --> 00:30:28,542
Speaker 3: boyfriend at the time was so excited to take me

611
00:30:28,582 --> 00:30:31,942
Speaker 3: to the beach one day and we drove after we'd

612
00:30:31,982 --> 00:30:34,502
Speaker 3: been clubbing, and we slept in the car and we

613
00:30:34,582 --> 00:30:36,741
Speaker 3: woke up in the morning and it was just like,

614
00:30:36,942 --> 00:30:39,302
Speaker 3: you have to pay first of all, and it's just

615
00:30:39,422 --> 00:30:42,302
Speaker 3: all these structures that you rent and beach chairs and

616
00:30:42,782 --> 00:30:45,501
Speaker 3: to this sad little trickle of gray water. And I

617
00:30:45,542 --> 00:30:47,142
Speaker 3: was like, guys, come on, this is not a beach.

618
00:30:47,182 --> 00:30:49,382
Speaker 2: This is pathetic. It's true, and I think that that's

619
00:30:49,382 --> 00:30:50,981
Speaker 2: one of the things that people are reacting to.

620
00:30:51,262 --> 00:30:52,181
Speaker 1: Isn't it about bags?

621
00:30:52,222 --> 00:30:56,262
Speaker 2: Rightly or wrongly, people are reacting to you are de

622
00:30:56,422 --> 00:30:57,941
Speaker 2: australianizing the beach.

623
00:30:58,022 --> 00:31:00,862
Speaker 4: As long as a beach is free, it is Australian.

624
00:31:01,142 --> 00:31:04,582
Speaker 3: My understanding of what Albow was saying is that what

625
00:31:04,622 --> 00:31:06,661
Speaker 3: people are really objecting to are people who go and

626
00:31:06,742 --> 00:31:09,382
Speaker 3: bags a bit of sand. Like they go and they

627
00:31:10,142 --> 00:31:11,181
Speaker 3: squat and they.

628
00:31:11,062 --> 00:31:14,262
Speaker 2: Put it up, but all the same surrounding it.

629
00:31:14,302 --> 00:31:15,782
Speaker 4: But what I will say about that is that they

630
00:31:15,782 --> 00:31:17,702
Speaker 4: put their thing down and maybe they go and dip

631
00:31:17,742 --> 00:31:20,182
Speaker 4: into the water. But people aren't putting up their kabana

632
00:31:20,302 --> 00:31:23,302
Speaker 4: and then going on the bus home like people are

633
00:31:23,702 --> 00:31:26,662
Speaker 4: around the beach. They're also allowed to go into the water.

634
00:31:26,702 --> 00:31:28,382
Speaker 4: It's not like you can't leave your capara.

635
00:31:28,542 --> 00:31:31,502
Speaker 2: The thing is one more thing. See how hated. This

636
00:31:31,622 --> 00:31:34,142
Speaker 2: is the reason people are upset is because it's changed.

637
00:31:34,182 --> 00:31:36,181
Speaker 2: You know, how you were saying, is it different. It

638
00:31:36,342 --> 00:31:39,542
Speaker 2: is different because it's like looks different if you consistently

639
00:31:39,582 --> 00:31:40,822
Speaker 2: go to the beach, whether it's for a day or

640
00:31:40,862 --> 00:31:42,981
Speaker 2: for a dip. In the last three years, this is

641
00:31:43,022 --> 00:31:45,781
Speaker 2: a new thing, and I think that we're like what

642
00:31:46,102 --> 00:31:48,622
Speaker 2: I didn't think that's what we did. I think that's

643
00:31:48,661 --> 00:31:49,782
Speaker 2: what people are reacting to.

644
00:31:50,342 --> 00:31:53,262
Speaker 4: In case you missed it, actress and model Brookshields was

645
00:31:53,302 --> 00:31:57,781
Speaker 4: given a vaginal medical procedure without her consent. In her

646
00:31:57,902 --> 00:32:01,342
Speaker 4: upcoming memoir called Brookshields is Not Allowed to get old

647
00:32:01,462 --> 00:32:04,142
Speaker 4: thoughts on aging as a woman, the fifty nine year

648
00:32:04,182 --> 00:32:08,142
Speaker 4: old shared a story about consulting a gynecologist because she'd

649
00:32:08,182 --> 00:32:11,862
Speaker 4: been having ongoing dis comfort with her labia since her

650
00:32:11,862 --> 00:32:14,501
Speaker 4: teenage years, which included bleeding and chafing.

651
00:32:14,822 --> 00:32:17,422
Speaker 1: She wanted a reduction reduction.

652
00:32:17,182 --> 00:32:21,342
Speaker 4: Yes, so her doctor recommended that surgery. She then underwent

653
00:32:21,342 --> 00:32:25,302
Speaker 4: that surgery, but when she returned for her post operative checkup,

654
00:32:25,342 --> 00:32:28,502
Speaker 4: her male surgeon told her very proudly that he'd performed

655
00:32:28,502 --> 00:32:34,022
Speaker 4: an additional procedure without her knowledge, called vaginal rejuvenation, also

656
00:32:34,102 --> 00:32:39,062
Speaker 4: known as vagina plasty, which tightens the vagina. She felt

657
00:32:39,062 --> 00:32:41,181
Speaker 4: she couldn't sue the doctor because it would have been

658
00:32:41,222 --> 00:32:44,982
Speaker 4: on the front page of every newspaper. Wowowow why would

659
00:32:45,022 --> 00:32:46,941
Speaker 4: the assumption be that a woman would want this?

660
00:32:47,302 --> 00:32:49,742
Speaker 3: She said she felt really ashamed and she didn't want

661
00:32:49,782 --> 00:32:52,982
Speaker 3: to tell even her husband about it.

662
00:32:53,302 --> 00:32:55,342
Speaker 1: Fun fact, you might remember.

663
00:32:55,022 --> 00:32:57,421
Speaker 3: That Brookshield's one of the things she first became famous

664
00:32:57,462 --> 00:32:59,222
Speaker 3: for after Blue Lagoon, was an ad she did with

665
00:32:59,302 --> 00:33:01,661
Speaker 3: cumclin jeans and it was her sort of with her

666
00:33:01,742 --> 00:33:04,062
Speaker 3: legs spread in a pair of jeans, and the line

667
00:33:04,222 --> 00:33:06,462
Speaker 3: was what comes between me and my calvins?

668
00:33:06,942 --> 00:33:09,701
Speaker 1: Nothing? And I just wanted to point out that you

669
00:33:09,702 --> 00:33:10,782
Speaker 1: should always wear.

670
00:33:10,661 --> 00:33:14,222
Speaker 3: Underparents if you're regardless of the length of your LaBier

671
00:33:14,422 --> 00:33:16,062
Speaker 3: when you were wearing Taigian.

672
00:33:15,782 --> 00:33:17,022
Speaker 4: Yeah, because it would shafe out.

673
00:33:17,382 --> 00:33:20,461
Speaker 2: Yeah, that seems irrelevant. But I don't even understand. Is

674
00:33:20,502 --> 00:33:23,062
Speaker 2: this Like we've run stories on Mama Maya before of

675
00:33:23,222 --> 00:33:27,502
Speaker 2: people saying, after they've given birth, they've torn. Yeah, and

676
00:33:27,502 --> 00:33:30,701
Speaker 2: they've torn that the doctor said, I've given you what

677
00:33:30,742 --> 00:33:34,102
Speaker 2: we call husband's stitch. We've run stories on a Mare

678
00:33:34,142 --> 00:33:34,421
Speaker 2: about that.

679
00:33:34,462 --> 00:33:36,302
Speaker 1: Do you want an extra stitch for the husband?

680
00:33:36,661 --> 00:33:36,781
Speaker 3: Like?

681
00:33:36,942 --> 00:33:40,302
Speaker 2: Which is this horrible idea of exactly this? But of

682
00:33:40,342 --> 00:33:43,102
Speaker 2: course you would want me to tighten that thing up.

683
00:33:43,342 --> 00:33:46,501
Speaker 2: So that's what happened to Brookshields without her asking. That

684
00:33:46,661 --> 00:33:49,262
Speaker 2: is shocking. Do you think that he thought, oh, she's

685
00:33:49,262 --> 00:33:53,062
Speaker 2: getting labiaplasti, So she obviously is concerned about the region, like.

686
00:33:53,262 --> 00:33:58,062
Speaker 3: Because some women get labiaplasty for aesthetic reasons because they

687
00:33:58,222 --> 00:34:02,462
Speaker 3: just don't visually like the way it looks. Because, for example,

688
00:34:03,142 --> 00:34:06,262
Speaker 3: most vaginas that women see in labias that volvers that

689
00:34:06,302 --> 00:34:10,382
Speaker 3: women see are in either pawn or you know, we

690
00:34:10,422 --> 00:34:12,702
Speaker 3: don't realize that flaps come in all shapes and sizes.

691
00:34:12,942 --> 00:34:15,742
Speaker 3: Quick plug for Ellie said toix book, she's a volver photographer.

692
00:34:15,822 --> 00:34:18,182
Speaker 3: I interviewed her on No Filter. She has just released

693
00:34:18,181 --> 00:34:20,421
Speaker 3: a coffee table book which is at my house now,

694
00:34:20,661 --> 00:34:23,142
Speaker 3: which I keep making my children look at God.

695
00:34:23,261 --> 00:34:26,982
Speaker 4: It's just of photographs of volvers. They come in so

696
00:34:27,022 --> 00:34:28,422
Speaker 4: many different shapes, so many.

697
00:34:28,261 --> 00:34:30,821
Speaker 3: And that's what someone should have sent Brook. Although no,

698
00:34:30,902 --> 00:34:35,062
Speaker 3: Brook did have actual chafing reasons because of perhaps the genes,

699
00:34:35,302 --> 00:34:35,582
Speaker 3: and he was.

700
00:34:35,542 --> 00:34:37,902
Speaker 2: Sent it to her doctor. But like, it's okay for

701
00:34:37,982 --> 00:34:39,742
Speaker 2: everybody's vagina to be a bit different.

702
00:34:40,062 --> 00:34:42,382
Speaker 1: But then this is this, this is the inside.

703
00:34:42,462 --> 00:34:44,502
Speaker 4: This is the inside, and I think what it really

704
00:34:44,582 --> 00:34:46,981
Speaker 4: is is that the doctor wasn't concerned about what Brook

705
00:34:47,022 --> 00:34:49,741
Speaker 4: wanted and the husband's stitch. You're not concerned about what

706
00:34:49,741 --> 00:34:50,502
Speaker 4: the woman wants.

707
00:34:50,741 --> 00:34:53,622
Speaker 1: It's about how it feels for anyone going in there. Sacually.

708
00:34:53,741 --> 00:34:56,382
Speaker 4: It's the epitome of misogyny and medical misogyny.

709
00:34:56,701 --> 00:34:58,901
Speaker 2: After the break, you knew we were going to go there.

710
00:34:59,022 --> 00:35:02,542
Speaker 2: Megan Mirkale's big news show has been delayed. We're getting

711
00:35:02,582 --> 00:35:04,742
Speaker 2: you up to speed with with Love Megan.

712
00:35:05,422 --> 00:35:08,261
Speaker 3: Every Tuesday and Thursday, we drop new segments of Mama

713
00:35:08,261 --> 00:35:10,941
Speaker 3: and Me Are Out Loud. Just remember me as subscribers

714
00:35:11,261 --> 00:35:12,942
Speaker 3: follow the link in the show notes to get your

715
00:35:13,022 --> 00:35:15,701
Speaker 3: daily dose out Loud and a big thank you to

716
00:35:15,781 --> 00:35:17,622
Speaker 3: everyone who is already subscribed.

717
00:35:26,142 --> 00:35:29,182
Speaker 2: The California fires are a tragedy on an enormous human

718
00:35:29,221 --> 00:35:33,022
Speaker 2: and environmental scale, but they have also robbed us of

719
00:35:33,062 --> 00:35:35,582
Speaker 2: one of the little glimmers of delight. For January twenty

720
00:35:35,661 --> 00:35:40,662
Speaker 2: twenty five, Megan the Duchess of Sussex's long awaited TV show,

721
00:35:40,822 --> 00:35:41,181
Speaker 2: Let's Go.

722
00:35:43,862 --> 00:35:49,342
Speaker 8: I've always loved taking something pretty ordinary and elevating it,

723
00:35:49,502 --> 00:35:52,502
Speaker 8: surprising people with moments that let them know I was

724
00:35:52,542 --> 00:35:55,341
Speaker 8: really thinking of them.

725
00:35:55,542 --> 00:35:58,862
Speaker 4: What this is probably one of the most glamorous moments

726
00:35:58,942 --> 00:36:01,941
Speaker 4: of my life's m I've been.

727
00:36:01,862 --> 00:36:04,381
Speaker 2: Waiting for Megan's jam now for ten months. I don't

728
00:36:04,422 --> 00:36:06,741
Speaker 2: know it's with me wait for jam. That's how long

729
00:36:06,781 --> 00:36:12,262
Speaker 2: it's been since her company, American Riviera Orchard Now came

730
00:36:12,342 --> 00:36:15,102
Speaker 2: on to Instagram and said they were going to make jam.

731
00:36:15,142 --> 00:36:17,701
Speaker 2: They never did, But what happened in the first week

732
00:36:17,701 --> 00:36:21,262
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty five was movement. It was exciting. Meghan

733
00:36:21,462 --> 00:36:25,181
Speaker 2: came back to Instagram. She first of all, sure you

734
00:36:25,221 --> 00:36:26,861
Speaker 2: all saw it. If not, what have you been doing

735
00:36:26,902 --> 00:36:30,142
Speaker 2: with your year so far, just released a black and

736
00:36:30,181 --> 00:36:33,102
Speaker 2: white video of her running onto a beach. There were

737
00:36:33,142 --> 00:36:37,062
Speaker 2: no cabanas there, Jesse, No, that's probably your own and

738
00:36:37,261 --> 00:36:40,582
Speaker 2: riding twenty twenty five in the sund And.

739
00:36:40,582 --> 00:36:45,742
Speaker 3: It was also her own Instagram account. Yeah, Megan, wonder

740
00:36:45,741 --> 00:36:49,062
Speaker 3: how she got that. That's a true crime conversation story.

741
00:36:49,142 --> 00:36:51,301
Speaker 3: I don't know who she how much she had to

742
00:36:51,342 --> 00:36:53,382
Speaker 3: pay to get that handle anyway.

743
00:36:53,102 --> 00:36:57,382
Speaker 2: And then she announced her return to the public kitchen. Finally,

744
00:36:57,502 --> 00:37:02,502
Speaker 2: fucking finally, I thought, here we go. Meghan's back. Her

745
00:37:02,542 --> 00:37:05,142
Speaker 2: Netflix show is happening. We've been hearing about this Netflix

746
00:37:05,181 --> 00:37:07,382
Speaker 2: show for a long time and people said there was

747
00:37:07,382 --> 00:37:09,142
Speaker 2: a film crew, and they said it was going to

748
00:37:09,181 --> 00:37:11,821
Speaker 2: be live, but none of us really believed in its

749
00:37:11,862 --> 00:37:16,022
Speaker 2: existence until Now With Love. Megan was meant to be

750
00:37:16,102 --> 00:37:19,822
Speaker 2: launching on Wednesday this week, dropping eight episodes of Judging

751
00:37:19,862 --> 00:37:24,262
Speaker 2: by the trailer, delightful, kitchen, pawn diaries were cleared, diaries,

752
00:37:24,302 --> 00:37:28,741
Speaker 2: work schedule, We already, we booked the studios, we're convened.

753
00:37:29,741 --> 00:37:31,661
Speaker 2: It's safe to say it looks like this show is

754
00:37:31,661 --> 00:37:35,301
Speaker 2: her making food, picking vegetables and freezing tiny flowers into

755
00:37:35,302 --> 00:37:38,022
Speaker 2: ice cubes with her famous and fabulous friends.

756
00:37:38,781 --> 00:37:40,341
Speaker 1: Now, Mindy Kayling was there.

757
00:37:40,542 --> 00:37:43,542
Speaker 2: She announced today as we're recording this that she is

758
00:37:43,582 --> 00:37:46,022
Speaker 2: going to postpone it. The launch has been postponed to

759
00:37:46,102 --> 00:37:48,542
Speaker 2: March out of respect for the devastation of the fires.

760
00:37:48,622 --> 00:37:49,821
Speaker 1: I'm very relieved about that.

761
00:37:49,982 --> 00:37:52,502
Speaker 2: Well, it would have been a bad look. Oh the

762
00:37:52,502 --> 00:37:55,782
Speaker 2: weight goes on. Mia. What do you make of Meghan's

763
00:37:55,781 --> 00:37:57,181
Speaker 2: actual real life show.

764
00:37:57,261 --> 00:37:59,461
Speaker 3: I'm just so excited to be back and talking about

765
00:37:59,502 --> 00:38:05,622
Speaker 3: it because I think that my overall impression with the

766
00:38:06,261 --> 00:38:09,422
Speaker 3: New Year's Day black and white Instagram video on the

767
00:38:09,582 --> 00:38:11,261
Speaker 3: each and all I could think was how many times

768
00:38:11,342 --> 00:38:13,062
Speaker 3: did you have to do it? To get that right,

769
00:38:13,582 --> 00:38:16,261
Speaker 3: and the perfect blow dry and everything, and then the

770
00:38:16,342 --> 00:38:20,302
Speaker 3: dropping of the trailer and then sadly her dog Guy died.

771
00:38:20,661 --> 00:38:21,942
Speaker 1: Why do I earn the name of a dog? I

772
00:38:22,062 --> 00:38:24,142
Speaker 1: need have to stepupsetting anyway.

773
00:38:24,181 --> 00:38:27,902
Speaker 3: My overall impression is that the esthetic and the vibe

774
00:38:27,982 --> 00:38:34,342
Speaker 3: is very kind of twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen. It's that,

775
00:38:34,622 --> 00:38:38,781
Speaker 3: you know, drawing things in the sand, highly produced, very

776
00:38:38,822 --> 00:38:42,301
Speaker 3: reminiscent in fact, of the Kate's cancer video.

777
00:38:43,302 --> 00:38:46,822
Speaker 4: So I disagree. I think it's reminiscent of a formal

778
00:38:46,862 --> 00:38:50,062
Speaker 4: lifestyle brand called The Tig, which is twelve years old.

779
00:38:50,142 --> 00:38:50,582
Speaker 4: I saw it.

780
00:38:50,701 --> 00:38:51,982
Speaker 1: No, but that was just a blog.

781
00:38:52,022 --> 00:38:53,981
Speaker 3: To be clear, that was a blog that wasn't really

782
00:38:54,062 --> 00:38:56,981
Speaker 3: video and it was just a nothing little Everyone had

783
00:38:57,102 --> 00:38:57,821
Speaker 3: blogs back there.

784
00:38:57,902 --> 00:39:01,542
Speaker 4: No, it wasn't a nothing little. It was big, yes

785
00:39:01,661 --> 00:39:03,781
Speaker 4: it was, and it had its own Instagram, and she

786
00:39:03,862 --> 00:39:06,341
Speaker 4: produced content. It was lifestyle content, it was food, it

787
00:39:06,382 --> 00:39:08,301
Speaker 4: was travel, it was all of it. This is how

788
00:39:08,382 --> 00:39:11,542
Speaker 4: Megan started. This is kind of what she did with.

789
00:39:11,622 --> 00:39:13,022
Speaker 1: Those a little hobby projects.

790
00:39:13,142 --> 00:39:16,542
Speaker 4: Oh that is you are so dismissive of Meghan. I

791
00:39:16,582 --> 00:39:18,382
Speaker 4: won't have it. I simply won't.

792
00:39:18,382 --> 00:39:20,181
Speaker 2: Say what we're arguing about here is whether this is

793
00:39:20,221 --> 00:39:22,701
Speaker 2: true to her brand right, because you have said me

794
00:39:23,302 --> 00:39:26,742
Speaker 2: interesting pivot. I think it is going back to her roots. Yeah.

795
00:39:27,102 --> 00:39:30,142
Speaker 4: And the first thing I thought when I watched the

796
00:39:30,181 --> 00:39:34,142
Speaker 4: trailer was I wish I'd been in the Netflix strategy

797
00:39:34,181 --> 00:39:37,302
Speaker 4: meeting when they decided that they would do the Martha

798
00:39:37,382 --> 00:39:40,381
Speaker 4: Stewart documentary at the tail end of twenty twenty four

799
00:39:40,862 --> 00:39:44,181
Speaker 4: to kind of nostalgically have everyone reminisce about the Martha

800
00:39:44,221 --> 00:39:49,222
Speaker 4: Stewart days, to then release Meghan Markle with Love Meghan

801
00:39:49,741 --> 00:39:52,501
Speaker 4: as almost position her as the new Martha Stewart, because

802
00:39:52,502 --> 00:39:53,901
Speaker 4: I think that's exactly what they're doing.

803
00:39:54,221 --> 00:39:59,542
Speaker 1: Do you think that there's an appetite for a Martha's Stewart? Absolutely? Absolutely, Look,

804
00:40:00,062 --> 00:40:01,261
Speaker 1: it's like Ballerina Farm.

805
00:40:01,342 --> 00:40:04,022
Speaker 4: The biggest, well, the biggest argument I had over the

806
00:40:04,342 --> 00:40:08,781
Speaker 4: holidays was exactly that someone saying this is a nod

807
00:40:08,822 --> 00:40:12,261
Speaker 4: to the tradwife phenomenon. We've got women baking cakes. There

808
00:40:12,261 --> 00:40:14,781
Speaker 4: was an article in the Sydney Morning Herald where the

809
00:40:14,822 --> 00:40:18,582
Speaker 4: writer basically said, you know, most people baking cakes aren't

810
00:40:18,622 --> 00:40:20,622
Speaker 4: doing it in front of a camera crew with their

811
00:40:20,622 --> 00:40:23,862
Speaker 4: famous friends. That's like saying most people to drive cars

812
00:40:23,982 --> 00:40:26,701
Speaker 4: aren't on formula one like it's television. Of course, it's

813
00:40:26,822 --> 00:40:31,302
Speaker 4: more beautiful, flamorous, of course. But whether or not you work,

814
00:40:31,422 --> 00:40:34,062
Speaker 4: or you have kids, or you're rich or you're poor,

815
00:40:34,142 --> 00:40:37,462
Speaker 4: you've got to put dinner on the table, so most people.

816
00:40:37,741 --> 00:40:39,701
Speaker 1: But do you have to put teeny little flowers in

817
00:40:39,741 --> 00:40:40,382
Speaker 1: ice cubes?

818
00:40:40,422 --> 00:40:43,021
Speaker 4: No, you don't. But I think that when I watched

819
00:40:43,062 --> 00:40:48,022
Speaker 4: the Martha Stuart documentary, I thought my grandmothers, who didn't

820
00:40:48,062 --> 00:40:52,062
Speaker 4: have all the resources in the world, cared about their

821
00:40:52,142 --> 00:40:55,821
Speaker 4: home gardening. Men and women for since the beginning of

822
00:40:55,862 --> 00:40:58,142
Speaker 4: time have been doing these things, and I think that

823
00:40:58,261 --> 00:41:00,861
Speaker 4: the way we pooh pooh them, or we turn our

824
00:41:00,902 --> 00:41:05,622
Speaker 4: nose up is actually is a new way of us

825
00:41:05,661 --> 00:41:08,022
Speaker 4: denigrating anything that we see as feminine.

826
00:41:08,102 --> 00:41:10,221
Speaker 2: I agree, not everyone who make the salad as a

827
00:41:10,221 --> 00:41:13,022
Speaker 2: trad wife. Let's be honest, right, it's not a trad

828
00:41:13,062 --> 00:41:17,021
Speaker 2: wife thing to make some food like that. Most women

829
00:41:17,102 --> 00:41:19,221
Speaker 2: are doing it every day, baked.

830
00:41:18,942 --> 00:41:21,462
Speaker 1: Biscuits, exactly right, And you're.

831
00:41:21,221 --> 00:41:24,461
Speaker 2: Not a trad wife yet. But I think that there

832
00:41:24,622 --> 00:41:27,102
Speaker 2: is definitely a bit of a shift at the moment

833
00:41:27,221 --> 00:41:29,422
Speaker 2: back to the home, and I think that that's something

834
00:41:29,422 --> 00:41:32,142
Speaker 2: that often happens in uncertain times, and there is no

835
00:41:32,342 --> 00:41:34,862
Speaker 2: question that we live in those, right, And the idea

836
00:41:34,862 --> 00:41:38,181
Speaker 2: of what you can control is within your four walls,

837
00:41:38,221 --> 00:41:40,741
Speaker 2: and you can make things lovely there, and you can.

838
00:41:41,181 --> 00:41:43,502
Speaker 2: She talks in the trailer about you know, moments of

839
00:41:43,622 --> 00:41:46,221
Speaker 2: joy in your life, right, and if you are the

840
00:41:46,342 --> 00:41:48,542
Speaker 2: kind of person who gets joy out of having a

841
00:41:48,582 --> 00:41:51,942
Speaker 2: flower in your ice cube, then here we go. Megan's

842
00:41:51,982 --> 00:41:52,381
Speaker 2: here for us.

843
00:41:52,382 --> 00:41:54,902
Speaker 3: I think the Internet's going to really take that on board.

844
00:41:56,462 --> 00:42:00,181
Speaker 3: I was thinking about the difficulty back in Martha Stewart's day,

845
00:42:00,902 --> 00:42:03,142
Speaker 3: like you either liked Martha Stewart or you weren't into

846
00:42:03,142 --> 00:42:05,181
Speaker 3: Martha Stewart. If you weren't into Martha Stewart, you didn't

847
00:42:05,181 --> 00:42:07,062
Speaker 3: buy a magazine, you didn't watch your shows. She kind

848
00:42:07,102 --> 00:42:09,102
Speaker 3: of you knew she was, but she didn't really affect

849
00:42:09,102 --> 00:42:13,421
Speaker 3: your life. Now it's like everything is a referendum on

850
00:42:14,382 --> 00:42:17,302
Speaker 3: what it is to be a woman. Like the fact

851
00:42:17,302 --> 00:42:20,022
Speaker 3: that some people are saying, well, Megan very big pivot

852
00:42:20,102 --> 00:42:23,502
Speaker 3: from archetypes her podcast and all her talk about being

853
00:42:23,502 --> 00:42:27,301
Speaker 3: a feminist, and now she's being a homemaker. And I

854
00:42:27,342 --> 00:42:28,702
Speaker 3: think two things can be true.

855
00:42:28,982 --> 00:42:31,902
Speaker 4: I saw a tweet which I thought was actually very true.

856
00:42:32,302 --> 00:42:35,542
Speaker 4: It said, we're criticizing Meghan for being out of touch

857
00:42:35,542 --> 00:42:37,661
Speaker 4: for baking, and then it had an image of Kate

858
00:42:37,741 --> 00:42:41,342
Speaker 4: and Will on thrones being held up by colonized people,

859
00:42:41,661 --> 00:42:43,582
Speaker 4: and I was like, yeah, the woman can't win.

860
00:42:43,622 --> 00:42:46,422
Speaker 2: Also, it's not anti feminist to make a cake like

861
00:42:46,462 --> 00:42:48,741
Speaker 2: that's ridiculous one of the things that I have because

862
00:42:48,741 --> 00:42:51,102
Speaker 2: you're right, Mare, she's going to get slammed for it, etc.

863
00:42:51,781 --> 00:42:53,261
Speaker 2: But the thing is that she is going to get

864
00:42:53,302 --> 00:42:56,542
Speaker 2: slammed whatever she does. There is no world in which

865
00:42:56,582 --> 00:43:01,022
Speaker 2: whatever Meghan's TV show or Next Business or project or

866
00:43:01,502 --> 00:43:04,422
Speaker 2: Instagram account or not Instagram account is not going to

867
00:43:04,502 --> 00:43:07,502
Speaker 2: attract an enormous amount of conversation and criticism. So you

868
00:43:07,582 --> 00:43:10,462
Speaker 2: might as well do something that you want to do

869
00:43:10,622 --> 00:43:13,782
Speaker 2: and you like doing. And that is probably smart and savvy,

870
00:43:13,822 --> 00:43:15,902
Speaker 2: because all of these threads will start to come together

871
00:43:16,022 --> 00:43:19,622
Speaker 2: if the jam ever fricking drops, which is that we've

872
00:43:19,622 --> 00:43:23,301
Speaker 2: already heard that we've trademarked under American reverer Orchard and

873
00:43:23,462 --> 00:43:27,542
Speaker 2: Duchess of Sussex. Tea towels, jars, candles, like all kinds

874
00:43:27,542 --> 00:43:29,542
Speaker 2: of things which will presumably all be in her show

875
00:43:29,701 --> 00:43:33,062
Speaker 2: product placement. You can buy this stuff. That's clever, clever, clever.

876
00:43:33,622 --> 00:43:35,942
Speaker 2: You could argue that if you were going to do it,

877
00:43:35,982 --> 00:43:38,102
Speaker 2: what's the least controversial thing you could do? Make a

878
00:43:38,102 --> 00:43:42,302
Speaker 2: few cakes. Yes, except that one of the other things

879
00:43:42,342 --> 00:43:45,302
Speaker 2: that people get upset about about the Martha Stuart vibe

880
00:43:45,342 --> 00:43:48,022
Speaker 2: and now the Gwyneth vibe and the Megan vibers, it's

881
00:43:48,022 --> 00:43:49,861
Speaker 2: putting a lot of pressure on ordinary women who are

882
00:43:50,022 --> 00:43:52,102
Speaker 2: putting flowers in their ice cubes. But you know, again,

883
00:43:52,542 --> 00:43:55,181
Speaker 2: whatever she does, she's going to cop that. One of

884
00:43:55,221 --> 00:43:57,462
Speaker 2: the things that perturbed me the most is that she

885
00:43:57,582 --> 00:44:00,941
Speaker 2: came back to Instagram book with all comments switched off.

886
00:44:01,062 --> 00:44:03,741
Speaker 2: Now I entirely understand why, because she's one of the

887
00:44:03,741 --> 00:44:07,982
Speaker 2: most trolled humans on the planet right, Absolutely no question,

888
00:44:08,102 --> 00:44:11,542
Speaker 2: she is trolled more than possibly any other high profile person.

889
00:44:11,942 --> 00:44:14,542
Speaker 2: But what that does declare to me, and we talked

890
00:44:14,582 --> 00:44:16,982
Speaker 2: about this in a subscriber episode at the end of

891
00:44:17,022 --> 00:44:19,501
Speaker 2: last year, is saying the quiet part out loud about

892
00:44:19,502 --> 00:44:21,502
Speaker 2: what social media is for now is this is not

893
00:44:21,542 --> 00:44:24,461
Speaker 2: about community building. This is not about having a conversation,

894
00:44:24,942 --> 00:44:27,741
Speaker 2: This is not about doing anything that's two way. This

895
00:44:27,781 --> 00:44:31,341
Speaker 2: is a billboard for me to sell by Wares. I

896
00:44:31,502 --> 00:44:33,861
Speaker 2: entirely understand why she's done it business. She's come back.

897
00:44:33,862 --> 00:44:36,221
Speaker 2: She's made three posts, including the Lovely Dog one. I

898
00:44:36,302 --> 00:44:38,301
Speaker 2: wanted to comment on the Dog one. I wanted to

899
00:44:38,342 --> 00:44:41,341
Speaker 2: share my condolences about guy whose name I also knew

900
00:44:41,342 --> 00:44:42,582
Speaker 2: about having to do and.

901
00:44:42,582 --> 00:44:44,862
Speaker 4: Looked at it and I was just told Wainwright Holly

902
00:44:45,022 --> 00:44:47,582
Speaker 4: liked this, and I was like, Holly, Megan, it's not

903
00:44:47,622 --> 00:44:47,981
Speaker 4: your friend.

904
00:44:48,022 --> 00:44:50,502
Speaker 2: I couldn't have liked it more times. I know how

905
00:44:50,502 --> 00:44:53,102
Speaker 2: it feels to lose a dog. Anyway, The point is,

906
00:44:53,661 --> 00:44:55,181
Speaker 2: what do you think about that? What do you think

907
00:44:55,221 --> 00:44:59,742
Speaker 2: about the return? But under very controlled circumstances, and really,

908
00:44:59,822 --> 00:45:01,301
Speaker 2: is there any other way she was ever going to

909
00:45:01,382 --> 00:45:01,622
Speaker 2: do it?

910
00:45:01,781 --> 00:45:03,862
Speaker 3: Well, you know what I was saying about the esthetic

911
00:45:04,022 --> 00:45:06,942
Speaker 3: and the vibe felt very sort of twenty fifteen. I

912
00:45:06,982 --> 00:45:09,142
Speaker 3: don't mean that in a derogatory way, because I think

913
00:45:09,181 --> 00:45:11,341
Speaker 3: that's what everybody was doing back then.

914
00:45:11,542 --> 00:45:13,302
Speaker 1: But the current.

915
00:45:13,142 --> 00:45:16,341
Speaker 3: Vibe, which is good news for us, is very low fi.

916
00:45:16,741 --> 00:45:20,301
Speaker 3: It's very hot mess. And that's been brought about in

917
00:45:20,382 --> 00:45:23,702
Speaker 3: no large part because of TikTok, which was very different

918
00:45:23,741 --> 00:45:26,902
Speaker 3: to the Instagram aesthetic. The Instagram asthetic was always perfect

919
00:45:26,982 --> 00:45:30,701
Speaker 3: TikTok came along and it was much more you know, undone,

920
00:45:30,822 --> 00:45:33,942
Speaker 3: and that is kind of the Internet's vibe.

921
00:45:33,701 --> 00:45:34,182
Speaker 1: At the moment.

922
00:45:34,221 --> 00:45:36,741
Speaker 3: You know, you look at the top podcast in the

923
00:45:36,781 --> 00:45:41,301
Speaker 3: world for women, Alex Cooper's call her Daddy. She wears

924
00:45:41,342 --> 00:45:43,701
Speaker 3: a hoodie while she's interviewing and track. I know she's

925
00:45:43,822 --> 00:45:47,862
Speaker 3: uncommonly beautiful, but it's still that's an affected version.

926
00:45:47,622 --> 00:45:49,942
Speaker 2: But it's still aspiration. It's just like, I don't think

927
00:45:50,022 --> 00:45:52,622
Speaker 2: aspiration has gone anywhere. I just think it looks different.

928
00:45:52,701 --> 00:45:56,542
Speaker 2: I think that Alex Cooper is still as you say, skinny, gorgeous,

929
00:45:56,582 --> 00:45:59,062
Speaker 2: white botox, with an inch of her life, no criticism,

930
00:45:59,062 --> 00:46:02,062
Speaker 2: but like it's just she's perfect. So it's not really undone.

931
00:46:02,102 --> 00:46:03,462
Speaker 1: It's almost like so undone.

932
00:46:03,542 --> 00:46:06,301
Speaker 2: It's kind of like how everybody said last year about

933
00:46:06,342 --> 00:46:09,342
Speaker 2: the Brat summer, like how cool. The Charlie xx Is

934
00:46:09,422 --> 00:46:12,422
Speaker 2: vibe is just this green with some like black let

935
00:46:12,542 --> 00:46:14,102
Speaker 2: us thrown at it, and then you find out that

936
00:46:14,181 --> 00:46:16,862
Speaker 2: they went through two hundred and sixty five shades of green,

937
00:46:17,462 --> 00:46:24,622
Speaker 2: so it's bullshit. The non aspirational vibe is also very created, curated, fake,

938
00:46:24,822 --> 00:46:26,542
Speaker 2: so really manufactured author inter.

939
00:46:26,822 --> 00:46:30,701
Speaker 4: I think this year the snark about Megan. It's got

940
00:46:30,701 --> 00:46:32,702
Speaker 4: to go. It's got to go. She's not hurting anyone.

941
00:46:33,022 --> 00:46:35,181
Speaker 4: You go make a cake and you go do your gardening,

942
00:46:35,221 --> 00:46:36,341
Speaker 4: and I'll tell you who will like that?

943
00:46:36,462 --> 00:46:38,901
Speaker 2: Is Wayne right? Holly? Well, except I'm gonna get real

944
00:46:38,982 --> 00:46:41,062
Speaker 2: jealous of a gud. This is going to be the

945
00:46:41,062 --> 00:46:43,301
Speaker 2: first time I'm really going to turn on her.

946
00:46:43,382 --> 00:46:45,221
Speaker 4: Oh well, maybe Maya will finally let you have a

947
00:46:45,261 --> 00:46:46,782
Speaker 4: gardening podcast if you luck eat.

948
00:46:46,701 --> 00:46:49,622
Speaker 1: Horrific more gardening contents the world needs.

949
00:46:50,102 --> 00:46:52,381
Speaker 2: Have you loved having us back out loud as? That's

950
00:46:52,422 --> 00:46:56,301
Speaker 2: the ques fun? If you have, you've got a chance

951
00:46:56,342 --> 00:46:58,022
Speaker 2: to buy tickets to our shows? Is that correct?

952
00:46:58,022 --> 00:47:02,222
Speaker 4: As your students you do. Every ticket for Perth is gone,

953
00:47:02,261 --> 00:47:05,102
Speaker 4: but more tickets have just been released for Brisbane, Sydney

954
00:47:05,142 --> 00:47:07,301
Speaker 4: and Melbourne. I know that a few people were worried

955
00:47:07,302 --> 00:47:08,102
Speaker 4: because I couldn't get them.

956
00:47:08,181 --> 00:47:10,102
Speaker 3: Who's going to be top of the leader board? I mean,

957
00:47:10,142 --> 00:47:12,622
Speaker 3: Perth already smashed everybody out of the path. My money's

958
00:47:12,661 --> 00:47:13,461
Speaker 3: on Brisbane.

959
00:47:13,701 --> 00:47:16,421
Speaker 1: We've got some very social out louders there. They had a.

960
00:47:16,422 --> 00:47:19,181
Speaker 3: Catch up there on the weekend organized by Champion out

961
00:47:19,181 --> 00:47:23,502
Speaker 3: louder Zoe Robbins, which was all about laughter and wine,

962
00:47:23,822 --> 00:47:25,421
Speaker 3: which is very on brand for us.

963
00:47:25,462 --> 00:47:27,421
Speaker 4: I loved the fight Oheit. It brought me so much joy.

964
00:47:27,661 --> 00:47:29,462
Speaker 2: Thank you to all of you out louders who are

965
00:47:29,462 --> 00:47:31,261
Speaker 2: coming to the show, who are planning to come to

966
00:47:31,302 --> 00:47:33,022
Speaker 2: the show. There's a link in the show notes of

967
00:47:33,022 --> 00:47:34,821
Speaker 2: where you ca and buy tickets, and thank you for

968
00:47:34,822 --> 00:47:36,381
Speaker 2: being here with us today. We're going to be back

969
00:47:36,382 --> 00:47:38,902
Speaker 2: in your airs tomorrow. Happy twenty twenty five.

970
00:47:39,422 --> 00:47:41,422
Speaker 4: Bye bye bye.

971
00:47:42,022 --> 00:47:44,902
Speaker 2: Shout out to any Mamma Mia subscribers listening. If you

972
00:47:45,062 --> 00:47:47,942
Speaker 2: love the show and you want to support us, subscribing

973
00:47:47,942 --> 00:47:50,381
Speaker 2: to Mama Mia is the very best way to do it.

974
00:47:50,582 --> 00:47:52,422
Speaker 2: There's a link in the episode description.