Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma mea podcast. Hello, it's Holly Wayne
Speaker 1: right here now. If you love Grace Lamb, and look
Speaker 1: you do, because who doesn't. She is completely chaotic and
Speaker 1: unhinged in the best way. I want to bring you
Speaker 1: something I think you'll like. Grace Lamb burst into our
Speaker 1: lives in the interview that I did with her for
Speaker 1: a show called mid Yes, I'm taking credit for introducing
Speaker 1: you all to Grace Lamb. I got her to come
Speaker 1: and talk to me about menopause, and she was sharp
Speaker 1: and sweary and rogue and completely no bullshit, just very
Speaker 1: Grace Lamb. You might know her as a former Vogue
Speaker 1: editor who lived in the world of high fashion, but
Speaker 1: what you might not know is that Grace's hormones completely
Speaker 1: upended her world and she became a loud and vital
Speaker 1: voice for women being messed around with in perimenopause, calling
Speaker 1: for the changes women need from our doctors, workplaces, and
Speaker 1: government institutions. She is funny, furious, honest, and very sweary
Speaker 1: in this conversation, so obviously she's exactly where she needs
Speaker 1: to be. Here is my conversation with Grace Loud for me,
Speaker 1: sobbing in a tent was the first sign not unreasonable.
Speaker 1: Of course, camping is bullshit. But the day I found
Speaker 1: myself crying, flinging things around a polyester palace so sleep
Speaker 1: deprived I could barely stand, I began to wonder if
Speaker 1: maybe this wasn't me me it was me on Perry?
Speaker 1: Was that why I was suddenly so anxious, so short
Speaker 1: of breath and spinny of brain. Were hormones to blame
Speaker 1: for those sparkly auras and ask kicking headaches? Why couldn't
Speaker 1: I remember the word for for my grain anymore? I
Speaker 1: think you know the answer. In fact, I know you do,
Speaker 1: because when I asked you, my mid friends, what your
Speaker 1: hormone will tell was the most surprising and weird thing
Speaker 1: that began to happen to you when you landed here
Speaker 1: in the decade of menopausal change. You told me. Oh,
Speaker 1: you told me. You told me so much and so
Speaker 1: well that I've written you a poem, a sonnet, maybe
Speaker 1: a song, perhaps a love note at the very least
Speaker 1: to all my mid sisters. I see you, you see
Speaker 1: each other. Maybe we should call it the Ballad of
Speaker 1: Perry and Mennow, the least amusing characters in the Ladies
Speaker 1: Pixar cartoon about a woman's hormonal life. Let's start with
Speaker 1: hair loss, a banging heart and throwing it back to acne, vertigo,
Speaker 1: itchy ears and saw hips, welcoming in a flare of ibs,
Speaker 1: and a couple of panic attacks, crawling skin, tasting metal
Speaker 1: and frozen shoulder. And did we mention the never ever sleeping,
Speaker 1: A sudden onset, idiot allergy, saw feet and no libido, fury,
Speaker 1: roseatia and self loathing, forgetfulness, oceans of tears and leaky
Speaker 1: we dry eyes, a scratchy head, and an absence of
Speaker 1: shits to give. And then there are the clots and
Speaker 1: the flooding and angry vagina rage, a missing waste and
Speaker 1: waking in a puddle, crumbly teeth and self doubt and
Speaker 1: a permanent hangover, restless legs, a shrivellly vadge and ginger
Speaker 1: vitis tinatus and a beard. Oh sorry, we forgot again
Speaker 1: to mention the anxiety, the sudden pounding life halting panic.
Speaker 1: Oh we did, that must be the brain fog. Welcome
Speaker 1: mids to my tent and yours. We're all in this together,
Speaker 1: just not at the same time. That would be a
Speaker 1: sight to see. Hello, I am Holly Wainwright, and I
Speaker 1: am mid, mid life, mid family, mid search for my
Speaker 1: hormone patches. When we invented Mid, some people, former guest
Speaker 1: Kyli Gillies amongst them, perhaps said to me, it's not
Speaker 1: just going to be a show about hot flushes. Well, no,
Speaker 1: it's not. Well it wasn't until that intro that I
Speaker 1: just wrote for you. Maybe it was a little much,
Speaker 1: but you're a hard bunch to shock. Thank you to
Speaker 1: all the mids who sent me their most surprising hormonal
Speaker 1: symptoms that we turned into that intro. We made it
Speaker 1: as far as episode eighteen to the show for gen
Speaker 1: X women who are anything but and we haven't even
Speaker 1: tackled the big m yet or you know, the big
Speaker 1: pe menopause, Perry, menopause, the change, you know, all that
Speaker 1: stuff that we're not meant to talk about. All that
Speaker 1: stuff that's a bit you know, embarrassing, awkward, old, and
Speaker 1: yet suddenly women are talking about it. It's as if
Speaker 1: when the rebellious women of gen X lost our estrogen,
Speaker 1: we found our voices looking around and going, hold up,
Speaker 1: we're just supposed to put up with all this. If
Speaker 1: it's true that the generation above are rolling their eyes
Speaker 1: about us because they rode the hormone roller coaster with
Speaker 1: rolled up sleeves and gritted teeth. You know, we're sorry,
Speaker 1: not so sorry about that. This is a show about
Speaker 1: grown up women, and we could do many, many episodes
Speaker 1: about hormones and perry and menopause, and you know what,
Speaker 1: we probably will. But here is our first. And if
Speaker 1: you haven't met Grace Lam yet, you're going to be
Speaker 1: very glad you did. Grace once gave Kate Moss a
Speaker 1: pair of her own knickers to wear on a fashion shoot. Yes,
Speaker 1: you heard that right. For more than twenty five years,
Speaker 1: Grace lived and breathed the rarefied air of high fashion,
Speaker 1: working for and with everyone from yes, Kate Moss and
Speaker 1: all of the supermodels to Edward Ennenfall, who's an OBI.
Speaker 1: She's worked all over the world and was part of
Speaker 1: the launch team of Vogue China, staying in Asia then
Speaker 1: for twelve years before coming to settle in Perth with
Speaker 1: her husband and her son and to build a new business,
Speaker 1: which is bespoke like styling and shopping service with an
Speaker 1: emphasis on mid women. Everything was going according to plan
Speaker 1: for the talented, organized, focused Grace until hormones entirely upended
Speaker 1: her tidy world. She's going to tell you about exactly
Speaker 1: what that felt like. Fast forward a few years, and
Speaker 1: Grace has become a loud and important voice for women
Speaker 1: being messed with by their hormones. She's bought her voice
Speaker 1: all the way to the halls of government. She's recently
Speaker 1: just appeared, for example, before the Western Australian Senate public
Speaker 1: hearing on issues about perry and menopause, telling government what
Speaker 1: we actually need to change systemically in our medical institutions
Speaker 1: to catch up with what we all need. Grace is
Speaker 1: sharp and funny and honest and nobleshit like you. I
Speaker 1: think you're going to like her. Oh and she's sweary,
Speaker 1: so yes, you're definitely going to like her. I want
Speaker 1: to start with how you saw yourself and your life
Speaker 1: before perimenopause. So I want you to paint me a
Speaker 1: picture of Grace's pre aged forty eight.
Speaker 2: I wasn't even thinking about perimenopause and men First of all,
Speaker 2: I didn't know the word perimenopause existed. I've always heard
Speaker 2: only menopause. My life was as normal as you can
Speaker 2: imagine when I was living in Hong Kong. So I'm
Speaker 2: from Hong Kong originally, but I lived most of my
Speaker 2: life in London, so I'm a true Londoner Hong Kong.
Speaker 2: And life was great, you know, I've got one clube
Speaker 2: PERF just before COVID, and everything was fine, you know,
Speaker 2: and then suddenly one night it hit me like a
Speaker 2: brick and everything changed that night.
Speaker 1: You moved to Perth with your family, and you are
Speaker 1: going about your busy, hyper organized life, and then what
Speaker 1: happens when perimenopause hits you like a train.
Speaker 2: It really hit me like a train wreck. One night.
Speaker 2: I was like sleeping and then suddenly I could not
Speaker 2: see for the next four or five weeks, just out
Speaker 2: of the blue.
Speaker 1: When you say that, do you mean literally you couldn't
Speaker 1: sleep for four weeks, because I've heard you say this
Speaker 1: like insomnia for that long.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah. When I first came to PERF,
Speaker 2: I was so burned up just from having like this
Speaker 2: fashion life in Hong Kong and London whatever and stuff.
Speaker 2: I hadn't stopped, like I don't know how many years,
Speaker 2: at twenty years, So when I came to Perth, because
Speaker 2: PERF is so chill, I was like Okay, I'm just
Speaker 2: going to take some time off work. I'm not going
Speaker 2: to do anything. And then COVID hit was just like
Speaker 2: kind of a good timing in a way, so I
Speaker 2: wasn't stressed, and I was like, am I stressed? I'm
Speaker 2: not stressed, not working, you know, I'm just taking some
Speaker 2: time off, so I'm not stressed, So why am I
Speaker 2: not sleeping? So the first few days I thought, oh,
Speaker 2: maybe it's just something happened. Maybe I'm kind of like,
Speaker 2: you know, unconscious stress. And then when it started hitting,
Speaker 2: like the second week, the third, I was like, this,
Speaker 2: this is weird. Something's not right. And I couldn't even
Speaker 2: comprehend what was happening because I hadn't researched anything. I
Speaker 2: didn't know anything. I kind of start feeling like my
Speaker 2: brain was out of my head for most days, just
Speaker 2: couldn't put sentence together. And it's not because I've got
Speaker 2: bad English. It just felt so surreal. I felt like
Speaker 2: I was having like an out of body experience every
Speaker 2: day for the next at least four to five weeks.
Speaker 2: And because I followed the Vina mcor from UK, a
Speaker 2: very famous TV bresil and she's a huge menopause advocate,
Speaker 2: I started tapping through the whole menopause world, and then,
Speaker 2: of course, you know, she team up with Dr Nami Porter,
Speaker 2: who wrote a brilliant book Menopausing, and then I discovered
Speaker 2: Dr Louis Nusan. You know, all these amazing women that
Speaker 2: helped me through the time when I felt so lost
Speaker 2: in my life, like she s didn't know what was happening,
Speaker 2: and my mood swing was like up and down like
Speaker 2: you a roller coaster. I mean, I'm a moody bitch anyway,
Speaker 2: and I can go from zero to a thousand within
Speaker 2: a second. But I've calmed down so much more for
Speaker 2: the past five years, and I felt like something wasn't right,
Speaker 2: and I knew, you know, the kind of menopause rage
Speaker 2: is so different from your normal rage. You feel it
Speaker 2: in your bones that it's kind of like a different
Speaker 2: part of your brain that's happening. And I think the
Speaker 2: day when my husband said to me, he probably said
Speaker 2: something like, what's you want for dinner? And I just
Speaker 2: blew up and I kicked out our kid bin and
Speaker 2: I dented it and I was like, whoa. I mean,
Speaker 2: my kongfu skills is great, but not this great, you know,
Speaker 2: I just knew something was happening.
Speaker 1: It's so interesting. So it started with insomnia. Now I'm
Speaker 1: going to ask you to list some of your symptoms
Speaker 1: in a minute, because I have listened to the remarks
Speaker 1: that you gave to the Perth Senate on their menopause inquiry,
Speaker 1: and the list is long. But for the women listening,
Speaker 1: it's interesting because when these things first start happening to you,
Speaker 1: you don't know that's what it is. And then as
Speaker 1: you say that, your pennies began to drop and you
Speaker 1: began to see this information around from Divine and McCall
Speaker 1: and others. It can be hard to see the wood
Speaker 1: for the trees, right, Like you're kind of like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm moody, Oh I'm sleepless, Oh I'm this, and that
Speaker 1: you started to keep a diary, didn't you of your symptoms?
Speaker 1: And can you tell me some of the other things
Speaker 1: apart from the sleeplessness and rage that were happening to
Speaker 1: you in this period.
Speaker 2: I had like breast tenderness, which was weird, you know,
Speaker 2: and then palputation. It wasn't severe, but I felt like
Speaker 2: sometimes my heart will miss a beat, and I was like,
Speaker 2: this is kind of weird tinators. I couldn't hear. I'm
Speaker 2: at one point, at the beginning stage, I was so
Speaker 2: sensitive to noise to a point out where, you know,
Speaker 2: if if my husband bashed pots and pans, I'd be
Speaker 2: like out, you know. And then joint pain, you know,
Speaker 2: my fingers start getting really like painful. And then I
Speaker 2: gain a lot of like belly fat and kind of
Speaker 2: crawley skin a little bit. I just felt tired. And
Speaker 2: then oh, the weirdest thing was I started feeling driving anxiety,
Speaker 2: which I know is a symptom, but I didn't know
Speaker 2: it was a symptom then. And I started being very
Speaker 2: nervous about driving. Forgot say, I'm an F one Formula
Speaker 2: one fan. Even though I drive very safely, I'm all
Speaker 2: about you know, like watching F one. I'm like, why
Speaker 2: am I scared of driving? I thought, oh, maybe because
Speaker 2: I'm kind of newish to perf I'm like, no, you
Speaker 2: know this it was so weird. It was very strange.
Speaker 2: I would get into the curt and I feel nervous
Speaker 2: not to mention that people in Perth drive like crazy,
Speaker 2: which is kind of really weird. You know, it's such
Speaker 2: a chill place where people drive like lunatics here because
Speaker 2: this was.
Speaker 1: A period of change for you anyway, right with the
Speaker 1: career change and maybe into a new country. You obviously
Speaker 1: are a very high achieving woman. You're juggling being a mom,
Speaker 1: you're juggling being a wife. Were you hard on yourself
Speaker 1: at that time before you began to get the help
Speaker 1: you needed? Was it also like a bash to your
Speaker 1: self esteem to think, why am I suddenly this messy, angry,
Speaker 1: anxious lady.
Speaker 2: No. I mean I've always been quite a confident person.
Speaker 2: I wasn't hard on myself in that sense, but I
Speaker 2: was hard on myself on my to do list every day.
Speaker 2: You know, even though I wasn't working full time, I
Speaker 2: had a lot of to do lists. You know, clean this,
Speaker 2: do that, you know, no, no, no, you know, make
Speaker 2: homemake cookies or whatever and stuff. And when I wasn't
Speaker 2: doing that, I was so pissed off at myself. I'm
Speaker 2: not good mother, I'm not this, I'm not you know.
Speaker 2: I would need to do this, do all everything right.
Speaker 2: It's not up until maybe last year I started telling
Speaker 2: myself small winds are the real winds rather than like
Speaker 2: all these like massive fucking to do lists. I mean,
Speaker 2: who's got the time. You know, when you're like a
Speaker 2: full time mom and you've got things, you get shitped done.
Speaker 2: I mean, to every day just too massive. And I
Speaker 2: started saying to myself, Okay, out of the ten things,
Speaker 2: if you do three things, you're winning. So as soon
Speaker 2: as I took that kind of mindset, it really helped
Speaker 2: me to like take it easier on myself a bit more.
Speaker 2: I'm always been quite confident women, but I think sometimes
Speaker 2: I would have self doubt to a point that I
Speaker 2: was like, that's so weird because I'm so confident. Why
Speaker 2: am I having all these feelings? And once I acknowledge it,
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, step myself out of it. I'm like,
Speaker 2: you know what, You're not that kind of woman, you
Speaker 2: know to just step up.
Speaker 1: You feel like you're turning into someone else, don't you.
Speaker 1: It's really strange. So then once you've realized this, and
Speaker 1: as you say, you're following some amazing advocates online, you
Speaker 1: needed to get yourself some practical help, so you were
Speaker 1: very deliberate about who you wanted to seek out to help.
Speaker 1: You tell me about how you first approached getting medical help.
Speaker 2: At this point, I started a menopause group chat with
Speaker 2: two moms at my son's schools because they are going
Speaker 2: through paying menopause. The first thing I told them is
Speaker 2: to start a diary, which helps so much. I said,
Speaker 2: write every single details down, whether you have a twitch
Speaker 2: in your eye or whatever and stuff. I said, all
Speaker 2: these symptoms that you don't think is important. They make
Speaker 2: all the puzzles together when you go and see your
Speaker 2: GP or your specialists. I have a great clinic near
Speaker 2: where I live, so I normally go there for anything, right,
Speaker 2: so I deliberately chosen an Asian GP. She's a bit
Speaker 2: older than me and she's a super nice lady. I
Speaker 2: deliberately chose her because she's Asian and I know that
Speaker 2: she's going through menopause, so I thought, oh, she can
Speaker 2: relate to me. But she didn't know much. I have
Speaker 2: to tell her quite a lot because before I went,
Speaker 2: I did shitloads of homework and doctor Armie Porter has
Speaker 2: gave advice about what you need to say when you're going,
Speaker 2: you know, to your first appointment. I didn't know that
Speaker 2: I could ask for an extension appointment, so my oppoinment
Speaker 2: was like maybe maximum eight minutes. It's really short, you know.
Speaker 2: My list of questions was just far too long. I'll
Speaker 2: probably need an hour. She gave me eight minutes maximum,
Speaker 2: and then you know, gave me some sleeping pills and
Speaker 2: that was it. And I was like, I don't worry.
Speaker 2: I don't actually use the sleeping pills because I don't
Speaker 2: want to be addicted to it, even though I wasn't
Speaker 2: sleeping for like four or five weeks. But it just
Speaker 2: goes to show how little GP knows about menopause. It
Speaker 2: baffles me because you know, half the population is.
Speaker 1: A woman exactly. And also, as you said, you were
Speaker 1: very deliberate in seeking out a GP who you thought
Speaker 1: would know what you were talking about. But women like you,
Speaker 1: who are arming yourself with the information, we're finding ourselves
Speaker 1: sometimes going into the doctor's sidery and having to be
Speaker 1: well if like doing like we're the ones giving the information.
Speaker 1: It's crazy. Before we move on, didn't you say in
Speaker 1: your senate presentation notes that she told you sleeping pills
Speaker 1: and don't take HRT because it gives you cancer. Did
Speaker 1: she say that?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah she did. And then first of all, I
Speaker 2: asked hers, so do I need a charity? She go, oh, no, no,
Speaker 2: because you don't have hot flashes. So to her, if
Speaker 2: you don't have hot flashes, you don't need charity, which
Speaker 2: is so stupid as a stupid comment to make, because
Speaker 2: obviously from that moment I knew her, she knew nothing,
Speaker 2: so I was like, what the hell you know? I
Speaker 2: wasn't mean to her because she's you know, it's not
Speaker 2: her fault, but I was like, you, actually, you don't
Speaker 2: know a lot and it's kind of quite disheartening for
Speaker 2: me to come to you and you don't know much
Speaker 2: and you just gave me sleeping because this is not
Speaker 2: the way forward. How are we going to deal with this?
Speaker 2: And she said, just come back in two weeks after
Speaker 2: you've taken the sleeping pills. I was like, oh, you know,
Speaker 2: Fuck's sake, you know. And that's when I knew that
Speaker 2: if you find a GP that knows her shit or
Speaker 2: his shit about menopause, it's kind of like you wonder lottery.
Speaker 2: But then different friends told me about menopause specialists, so
Speaker 2: I actually went to see, you know, my first doctor,
Speaker 2: and I've got two doctors now I've changed. I'm entering
Speaker 2: my second next face of my perimenopause journey, so I've
Speaker 2: changed doctor. So going to a specialist changed my life,
Speaker 2: but it costs so much money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, So you walk out of your GP. And
Speaker 1: this is a lot of the women listening will have
Speaker 1: had experiences like this. Like when I talk to women
Speaker 1: who are not maybe as plugged into all this menopause
Speaker 1: information as you became, and I am, obviously through my
Speaker 1: work and things, they'll say, oh, well, I'm not a
Speaker 1: candidate for HRT because XYZ or they do still have
Speaker 1: that lingering cancer myth bubbling around in their head. So
Speaker 1: they'll walk out of the GP just feeling disheartened and
Speaker 1: lost at that point and probably just be suffering through
Speaker 1: what comes next. Your advice to those women would be
Speaker 1: to find menopause specialists in their area and then what happens.
Speaker 2: I think for those who can't take HRT, there are
Speaker 2: so many ways you can help yourself. Change of diet,
Speaker 2: your lifestyle is number one. I mean, through this whole journey,
Speaker 2: I've learned so much about nutrition, food, diet, exercise, which
Speaker 2: I was never about before. You know, I think when
Speaker 2: I had my son eleven years ago, I became more
Speaker 2: health conscious, but not to this level. So the past
Speaker 2: two years I've actually learned so much from all these people.
Speaker 2: I mean, if anyone needs help, just dm me on
Speaker 2: my Instagram and I will help you. It just got
Speaker 2: to a point that so many women have messaged me
Speaker 2: and said, oh, I can't find a GP to it.
Speaker 2: I've helped people up in Melbourne or Sydney with GPS
Speaker 2: that I know. It's kind of crazy. It's almost if
Speaker 2: you don't know where to start, you're so lost and
Speaker 2: you're going through all these symptoms. Then your mom or
Speaker 2: your grandmother was like, oh, don't worry, it's such soldier
Speaker 2: on like I did, and that I do not encourage
Speaker 2: soldiering on. And I almost wish that women would just
Speaker 2: help themselves by giving yourself more options. You know, there's
Speaker 2: so much misinformation out there. You also have to be
Speaker 2: very careful what to read and who to follow to
Speaker 2: get legit, you know, data. And I wish people could
Speaker 2: stop reading that stupid fucking report from two thousand and
Speaker 2: two Women's Health Initiatives. Stop reading that fucking report is
Speaker 2: so old and they were touching woman over sixties anyway,
Speaker 2: who are too late in a way for HRT and
Speaker 2: it was all or HRT, So can we just stop
Speaker 2: using that your standard of judging HRT. You know, we've
Speaker 2: got such modern medication now, it's completely different.
Speaker 1: It's been so discredited. So when you did find your
Speaker 1: menopause specialist, what's different about that appointment? Like when you
Speaker 1: go in there, what were you beginning to hear there
Speaker 1: that act started to help you?
Speaker 2: That she didn't deny it was perimenopause. My first GP
Speaker 2: who didn't know anything. She didn't deny it, but she
Speaker 2: couldn't give you more information. Whereas my menopause specialists, the
Speaker 2: first doctor, doctor Lucy Karate, she didn't deny it. We discussed,
Speaker 2: we had a one hour consultation, you know, it was great,
Speaker 2: and then all my questions were answered. And then together
Speaker 2: we planned the whole you know, charity road where we're
Speaker 2: going to start, what we're going to do, how we're
Speaker 2: going to change it, in it, all of that. And
Speaker 2: then now with you know, my new doctor, doctor Sunita
Speaker 2: from here at clinic, same thing. You know, they're just
Speaker 2: a lot more thoughtful and they know their shit. They
Speaker 2: know you know everything that will help you. You know,
Speaker 2: they all have different ways. You know, doctor Sonita now
Speaker 2: is very she's super practical, which I love. And also
Speaker 2: through this journey I realized that there's so many companies
Speaker 2: out there just using a menopause topic to capitalize on
Speaker 2: menopause a woman because they just feel like, you know what,
Speaker 2: I can sell shit to these women and they will anything.
Speaker 2: And I just want to say that I don't really
Speaker 2: believe in supplements unless through your blood test you shown deficiency,
Speaker 2: you know, in a certain element, like for example, I
Speaker 2: am deficient of vitamin D at a moment, so I
Speaker 2: am taking supplements. But in general I wouldn't advise anyone
Speaker 2: just to go and buy all these side you know,
Speaker 2: just don't waste your money.
Speaker 1: That is music to my ears, grace, because I did
Speaker 1: that over the last two years. I've had my own
Speaker 1: journey with perimenopause and menopause, and I was the person
Speaker 1: who was just desperately reaching for I must have ordered
Speaker 1: every supplement on I herb in the world we're getting
Speaker 1: delivered to me. And then I took so many of
Speaker 1: all the wrong things. I ended up getting really sick.
Speaker 1: And my doctor, who is actually a very good female,
Speaker 1: gp on this issue. But she says exactly what you say.
Speaker 1: She says, if your diet is good, do not take
Speaker 1: all the snake oil supplements. That everybody's selling you find
Speaker 1: out what you are actively need, because we're all flapping
Speaker 1: around so desperately trying to find answers to why we
Speaker 1: suddenly feel like completely different people. We're very vulnerable to
Speaker 1: being sold a whole lot of stuff we don't need, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Now I've learned that I will not go
Speaker 2: to a clinic that self supplements anymore. It's a different
Speaker 2: priority for them. I don't know. I just don't like
Speaker 2: people capitalizing on us when we're very vulnerable. It's just
Speaker 2: not right. And if you have a really good healthy diet,
Speaker 2: you know, protein, you know, eat in a fiber, eat
Speaker 2: your fermental food, exercise, all these are so much more important.
Speaker 2: And popping I think the problem with people, not just menopause.
Speaker 2: A woman, we want a quick fix, whether it's or
Speaker 2: sempic or diet, you know, we just want to pop
Speaker 2: a pill and don't have to do any work. But unfortunately,
Speaker 2: you do have to do a lot of work when
Speaker 2: you're going through perimenopause and menopause.
Speaker 1: I'll be back with more of my conversation with Gray
Speaker 1: Slam in a moment, but first it is a message
Speaker 1: from the presenting partners of assha. We are generally often
Speaker 1: at a very busy phase in our lives as well.
Speaker 1: You know, we're often parenting, we might be dealing with
Speaker 1: aging parents who are often working, like it feels like
Speaker 1: another job sometimes, which is why it's so important to
Speaker 1: understand who to trust. In your presentation too, well, you
Speaker 1: have to tell me how the whole your involvement in
Speaker 1: the per senate inquiry came about. But in that you
Speaker 1: talk about the cost and you actually list out what
Speaker 1: you have and do end up spending on this, and
Speaker 1: you're advocating obviously for more support on this front. What
Speaker 1: kind of support do we need? And do you know
Speaker 1: if there are places in the world that are doing
Speaker 1: this a lot better than Australia.
Speaker 2: I think the UK is definitely leading the way because
Speaker 2: they've just got so many amazing great menopause advocates over there.
Speaker 2: I mean, their charity costs twenty pounds per year with
Speaker 2: all hormone. It's just it blows my mind, you know, Like,
Speaker 2: so I'm taking estrogen and progesterone, and the progesterone is
Speaker 2: permetrium cost like is it seventy five or something like that,
Speaker 2: So basically each month I will have to spend at
Speaker 2: least two hundred dollars, right, but not including the supplements
Speaker 2: I used to take. So each month I will have
Speaker 2: to probably like span four five hundred dollars, but not
Speaker 2: to mention all the scans that I have to do,
Speaker 2: breast scans, perfect scans, this and that, and then go
Speaker 2: and see like you know, like a breast cancer specialist.
Speaker 2: I mean, of course you can go public, but the
Speaker 2: queue is so long that you won't see it until
Speaker 2: got knows when. Right. I didn't encounter these kinds of
Speaker 2: extra costs when I started this journey. And then you
Speaker 2: realize that the pharmaceutical benefit scheme they don't cover all hormones,
Speaker 2: but with men they do. You know, men can get
Speaker 2: like testosterone for like you know, a subsidy of course,
Speaker 2: so why can't we get all these three homes that
Speaker 2: are so important to us? You know, testosterone is not
Speaker 2: only for men, it's for women as well, you know. Well,
Speaker 2: so basically what happened was when I started this whole journey.
Speaker 2: And so you can see I'm not a shy woman.
Speaker 2: I've always been like if I don't like someone, I
Speaker 2: fucking tell them. Man, you know, I don't go oh
Speaker 2: my god, I'm just not that kind of person.
Speaker 1: You're good at what we call advocating for yourself.
Speaker 2: Yes, and ever since I was very young, I actually
Speaker 2: believe that I'm like the recarnation of Bruce Lei.
Speaker 1: Anyway, I was going to ask you where you reckon
Speaker 1: that confidence comes from? Now I know?
Speaker 2: Well. Also, I think being a twin and the youngest
Speaker 2: girls are four, it's quite my battles with my sisters,
Speaker 2: and I don't know, I think I was just fawn
Speaker 2: kind of like feisty and just like don't fuck with
Speaker 2: me kind of attitude. Anyway, back to menopause. So I
Speaker 2: was going through this journey and I was like, it's
Speaker 2: so weird that people don't talk about it, right, I've
Speaker 2: never heard any of my cousins, my female cousins of
Speaker 2: like friends in Hong Kong, they never speak about this.
Speaker 1: Why do you think that is? What's your theory on
Speaker 1: why we haven't until this moment been comfortable speaking about it.
Speaker 2: People are just embarrassed because that means that we're old.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's ageism, right, one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: And also what I find weird is that when people
Speaker 2: meet me, first of all, they can't believe I speak
Speaker 2: really good English. They're always like, your English is so good,
Speaker 2: and I was like, that's a fucked up thing to say.
Speaker 2: I started saying, you know, especially to white people, your
Speaker 2: English is also good, and they're like, oh, you know.
Speaker 2: I think when people meet me they can't believe. First
Speaker 2: I'm like fifty one, and they're like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: you look so yeah. I mean no, no, no, which is
Speaker 2: kind of like a compliment. But at the same time,
Speaker 2: I'm like, what do you think a fifty one woman
Speaker 2: should look like? An Asian woman look like like super young,
Speaker 2: or like why would you say that? Even it sounds
Speaker 2: like a compliment, is actually quite annoying for me because
Speaker 2: you kind of like typecasting, you know, Asian women, right.
Speaker 2: And also, I just want to normalize the conversation right
Speaker 2: from the start. So when I meet men, especially, I
Speaker 2: always tell them if I have a brain up moment,
Speaker 2: it's because of my perimenopause. They're like what. I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's my perimenopause brainfap. And if I do any probic speaking,
Speaker 2: it's the first thing I bring it up, because I
Speaker 2: want to normalize that conversation. You know what, People get
Speaker 2: used to it because every other woman is going to
Speaker 2: go through the same thing, and people sometimes don't know
Speaker 2: how to take it, and I'm like, you know, what,
Speaker 2: fucking deal with it.
Speaker 1: I love this right grace, because I'm a little bit
Speaker 1: the other way in that I can be very I
Speaker 1: don't want you to think that my hormones are impeding
Speaker 1: me being good at my job or able to do
Speaker 1: this or able to do that. So I often kind
Speaker 1: of minimize it, and I love that attitude of like, no,
Speaker 1: we need to normalize it, and then that way we
Speaker 1: unpick that stereotype. I also wanted to ask you, though,
Speaker 1: about the aging and people telling you look good for
Speaker 1: your age and all that nonsense. Living and working in
Speaker 1: the world that you had worked in all those years.
Speaker 1: Were you worried about aging? Like, were you worried about
Speaker 1: that from an external perspective?
Speaker 2: Now? I wasn't even thinking about it during my whole
Speaker 2: twenty seven years of working in fashion industry. I think
Speaker 2: when I was younger, in my twenties, I was more
Speaker 2: jaded than anything, because after I knew how much these
Speaker 2: supermodels were earning, you know, by walking down to Catwall,
Speaker 2: and I was there doing one of the toughest job
Speaker 2: as a last one to leave, first one to get there,
Speaker 2: just sorting up shit for people, you know, I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm going to pay peanuts compared to these women who
Speaker 2: are just they're taller, they've got an amazing face, you know. Figure.
Speaker 2: I think I was more jaded than anything, but luckily
Speaker 2: my character doesn't let me go to that dark side.
Speaker 2: And I was like, well, different people, different purpose in life, right.
Speaker 2: I think when I started this whole perimenopaust journey, I
Speaker 2: just want to break the stigma of menopausa women. I
Speaker 2: want to show that we are also very fashionable. We
Speaker 2: are not all dowdy. I think it's the image that
Speaker 2: really annoys me about menopausa woman or women above a
Speaker 2: certain age. And what I find quite interesting with some
Speaker 2: younger women. I sometimes I always feel like they think
Speaker 2: they're like invincible and then they're never going to get old.
Speaker 2: I want to tell them that you will get to
Speaker 2: my stage at one point and then you realize that,
Speaker 2: you know what, this older woman. I shouldn't have made
Speaker 2: fun of them. I shouldn't have all that, not just
Speaker 2: younger girls that you know, men as well, right, when
Speaker 2: men get older, they could always go for younger girls,
Speaker 2: you know, not old men. I'm not generalizing, but when
Speaker 2: we get old or when we have grey hair, we're
Speaker 2: like trying to hide out, trying to like, you know,
Speaker 2: die her doing all that, and it's like we've past
Speaker 2: a prime. One of the recommendations from the Senate Inquiry
Speaker 2: hearing is to have a new campaign for menopause. Me
Speaker 2: and my friend Maria from Perry Pausa who lives in Melbourne.
Speaker 2: You know, she called me, She's like, hey, let's talk
Speaker 2: about this. You know, we'll do a new campaign. And
Speaker 2: when we were talking on the phone just two weeks ago,
Speaker 2: it's certainly dawned on me. I had a really great
Speaker 2: idea and I want to change how we perceived in society.
Speaker 2: That can we stop just showing like really elderly women
Speaker 2: like laughing, you know, smiling. You know, I just want
Speaker 2: to make it really cool and relatable to younger women
Speaker 2: and younger girls and boys and men, to change the
Speaker 2: whole dynamic of how they see midlife women. It's very important,
Speaker 2: you know, especially you can't use the old methods anymore,
Speaker 2: and this has to be a new way of seeing it.
Speaker 2: It has to be in your way.
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you a little in a little
Speaker 1: bit about some of your advice about that for those
Speaker 1: of us who are feeling ourselves turning invisible. But to
Speaker 1: be back to this, you finally get the help you need.
Speaker 1: You've now been on HRT for a while. Where do
Speaker 1: you feel you're at now? Like, how do you feel
Speaker 1: in terms of giving women who are listening to this
Speaker 1: and struggling with it hope? Like do you feel amazing?
Speaker 1: Do you feel like your old self? Do you feel
Speaker 1: like an evolved version? Has the HRT fixed everything? Where
Speaker 1: are you now?
Speaker 2: Okay? So when I first started my chrity, I was
Speaker 2: on a very low dose of estrogen, like twenty five
Speaker 2: strength mcg, which is the lowest dose because we need
Speaker 2: to test out how my body will react to it.
Speaker 2: That night, I slept like a baby. So I know
Speaker 2: I'm one of the rare women that work immediately. Some
Speaker 2: woman takes like a year, six months or three months
Speaker 2: for it to happen. I was very lucky to have
Speaker 2: that kind of magic touch. You know. I would say
Speaker 2: if I wasn't on this HRT journey, I think I
Speaker 2: would have been such a bitch my husband. I can't
Speaker 2: tell you how great this journey has been I've learned
Speaker 2: so much, and charity has given me my life back,
Speaker 2: and I really wish that women would just give it
Speaker 2: a girl, if you can take it. Some of my
Speaker 2: friends who are prone to cancer, they are also on
Speaker 2: a charity because they weigh out the pros and cons.
Speaker 2: I mean, talk to your doctor. You know, we're not
Speaker 2: medical doctors. We can't give medical advice, but I would
Speaker 2: definitely weigh out the pros and cons versus Soldiering on
Speaker 2: chrity has changed my life. I feel so normal now.
Speaker 2: I get eight hours sleep. I mean, I still wake
Speaker 2: up now and then the brain fog still happens, but
Speaker 2: it's less severe. But I find that when I speak
Speaker 2: I guess because English is my second language, sometimes I
Speaker 2: find it quite like the puzzle doesn't match as quickly
Speaker 2: as before, so sometimes I go blank. I was talking
Speaker 2: to someone about giving birth and I couldn't remember for
Speaker 2: the life of me. So I can't even remember now,
Speaker 2: you know when I had a C section and then
Speaker 2: they gave me a pi jura. Remember apple drew for months.
Speaker 2: It was so weird. I'm like, I should know that word,
Speaker 2: come on, you know, stuff like that. So it really
Speaker 2: helped me to gain my life back and just to
Speaker 2: be like a nice person. I'm not a nice woman.
Speaker 1: I love this, I love you. You have let go
Speaker 1: of that people pleasing. I want people to like me,
Speaker 1: stuff that a lot of women struggle with and then
Speaker 1: when they hit midlife and suddenly go I hate everybody,
Speaker 1: it's a really big shock for them. You're going, look,
Speaker 1: I was kind of like that anyway, but I just.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I relayed menopause. It's been a whole eye
Speaker 2: opening journey and I wouldn't change a thing because through
Speaker 2: this whole journey, I met so many amazing women in
Speaker 2: Australia and worldwide, you know, in UK, I've made so
Speaker 2: many online friends and it's a great community. And also
Speaker 2: I want to, you know, tell the audience that just
Speaker 2: be very careful when you go on Facebook and join
Speaker 2: those menopause group. There's so much like misinformation out there,
Speaker 2: and I really advise you to seek professional help because
Speaker 2: some of those advice I'm just like so shocked on
Speaker 2: when people like just this and that, and yeah, it's
Speaker 2: just be very careful about where you get your information from.
Speaker 1: You gave evidence to the percent and inquiry, you gave
Speaker 1: a presentation what's the outcome of that that you want,
Speaker 1: and what are the main things that you think that
Speaker 1: like a systemic changes that can make things better for
Speaker 1: us rather than things that we can do.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, so many, so many, But there are
Speaker 2: twenty five recommendations. I haven't had time to reorder that
Speaker 2: because I think it's about one hundred and sixty something
Speaker 2: pages this report. But I urge everyone to go on
Speaker 2: the government website or go on my Instagram grade and style.
Speaker 2: I put it on my biolink so you can mean everything.
Speaker 2: First of all, education across the board, medical system or GPS, nurses,
Speaker 2: and I want I would love for everyone to work together. Psychiatrists, therapists,
Speaker 2: you know, physio nutritionist, dieticians. Everyone can jump on board
Speaker 2: and help us. It's all related. You know, how you eat,
Speaker 2: what you do, what exercise you do. You know, my
Speaker 2: first doctor is said to be that I shouldn't do
Speaker 2: hit exercise because of you know, parer of pause. Then
Speaker 2: I realized that after do more research that actually you
Speaker 2: can do a certain amount, but you're not overdo it
Speaker 2: to stress your body. And then my other friend was like,
Speaker 2: you know, recommending trainer for me. But then I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to go for a trainer who's like
Speaker 2: twenty years old, don't know what's going through.
Speaker 1: That's my whole thing is, I'm like, if I'm going
Speaker 1: to get a train that I'm scanning for the older
Speaker 1: face in the room.
Speaker 2: Exactly one hundred percent, you know. So I want GPS
Speaker 2: to have mandatory and your revision training because they need
Speaker 2: to be you know, updated with the new technology, new symptoms,
Speaker 2: and to have longer GP consultations for all women, a
Speaker 2: lot more subsidies on medication for all three homones that
Speaker 2: we need, testosterone, estrogen, and progesterone, and to give more
Speaker 2: funding to all the scanning and checks that we need,
Speaker 2: because at the moment it's just all out of my
Speaker 2: pocket and it's just like I'm a freelancer, you know,
Speaker 2: I just can't keep like giving out five hundred dollars
Speaker 2: here and then for one scan. And also so education
Speaker 2: in middle school and high school and universities so that
Speaker 2: boys and girls know what's coming for them, and especially
Speaker 2: men they need to know.
Speaker 1: I think that those are a great place to start
Speaker 1: because I think that when people are like, well, what
Speaker 1: can be done, it's like those are very practical things
Speaker 1: that can be done, like better awareness and training across
Speaker 1: the board, you know for the medical profession, more subsidies
Speaker 1: for what we need medically. Like that's it feels like
Speaker 1: that should be table stakes.
Speaker 2: Andause leave at workplace and also educating employers employees at
Speaker 2: a workplace so there's snow stigma, you know, no buyers
Speaker 2: when they take time off or no judgment and women
Speaker 2: can feel like they can have a conversation with their
Speaker 2: boss or like their colleagues without being judged. You know,
Speaker 2: this is the thing about this whole menopause top because
Speaker 2: people don't want to be judge. Oh yeah, she's old,
Speaker 2: she's past her prime. You know. I'm like, we're all
Speaker 2: going to get old men included. So we need to
Speaker 2: stop that kind of like judgmental conversation. Yeah, sort of
Speaker 2: government to job on board. I mean, come on, you know,
Speaker 2: surely they'vefore got wives, sisters, cousins and mothers you know,
Speaker 2: and daughters. So don't they want to have a happy wife,
Speaker 2: happy life, happy taught, a happy life you.
Speaker 1: Know, and tap into our wisdom and experience. Right, we're
Speaker 1: smart as that's the thing I tell people all the time.
Speaker 1: We're the people you want to hire and listen to
Speaker 1: because we've been around the block and we understand how
Speaker 1: the world works. I'll be back in a moment. I
Speaker 1: was really curious to know where all this grit and
Speaker 1: sort of bolshey determination came from in grace, and you're
Speaker 1: about to find out it isn't what I was expecting.
Speaker 1: You've said a lot about the stigma and stereotyping of
Speaker 1: experience as an Asian woman living in the UK and Australia.
Speaker 1: How do you think that those challenges have intersected with
Speaker 1: the aging and menopause journey, particularly with the medical community.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think Asian women have always had a
Speaker 2: putation of being very not all because I know a
Speaker 2: lot of strong, like upspoken Asian women as well. Sometimes,
Speaker 2: you know, when I don't have my resting bitch face on,
Speaker 2: people think I'm kind of because I'm Asian. They think
Speaker 2: first I don't speak too English, and then because I
Speaker 2: banter a lot with people, they don't expect it, and
Speaker 2: they think I'm like Dosa, really like demure, you know,
Speaker 2: really like quiet. So I think that's why I became
Speaker 2: who I am, because I want to break that kind
Speaker 2: of Asian woman stigma. Also because I had a bad
Speaker 2: racist attack in the UK when I lived there. I
Speaker 2: was actually beaten up by this guy, this random guy
Speaker 2: at the bus stop in Brighton, and because I was
Speaker 2: so a Chinese girl, he basically kicked the shit out
Speaker 2: of me and told me to go back to where
Speaker 2: I came from.
Speaker 1: Shit, how old were you then, Grace? Oh my god.
Speaker 2: So I mean there's racism everywhere, you know. I think
Speaker 2: just being Asian and being Chinese, people have this kind
Speaker 2: of image of us being really quiet and we don't
Speaker 2: speak out. I mean, I've had quite a lot of
Speaker 2: racism here in Australia, a lot more in the past
Speaker 2: few years compared to the twenty years I've lived in
Speaker 2: the UK.
Speaker 1: Like avert racism. I mean, I know, racism's racism, but.
Speaker 2: I mean during COVID, I was very aware of racism
Speaker 2: here because I saw on the Internet that people in
Speaker 2: the East Coast were attacking like Chinese people because they
Speaker 2: thought that you know, Chinese people, you know, they broke COVID,
Speaker 2: and I was very aware and very careful when I
Speaker 2: went out in Perth, especially when I was with my son,
Speaker 2: and I almost felt like part of me was a
Speaker 2: bit lost. The fire was lost in me because I
Speaker 2: was so scared people was going to attack me, especially
Speaker 2: when I was with my son. So my husband would
Speaker 2: come with me everywhere because he's white, and he was
Speaker 2: being very protective. But I was on my birthday the day,
Speaker 2: I was, you know, just going for a walk on myself,
Speaker 2: and my husband was away down south of Perth. He's
Speaker 2: a photographer, so he was doing some documentary an for
Speaker 2: a job. So I was by myself, you know, with
Speaker 2: my son and he went to school. So I went
Speaker 2: for walks in my birthday. This middle aged white guy
Speaker 2: cycle past me and he was like, go back to
Speaker 2: you fucking came from you fucking Chinese. And I was like,
Speaker 2: I was so shocked that that happened in Perth because
Speaker 2: I felt perf people are quite chill, and I think
Speaker 2: because of COVID everything just kind of like blew up.
Speaker 2: The old grace Lamb would have chased him down the streets,
Speaker 2: just going you fucking wanker.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I want to use the sea word, but I don't
Speaker 2: think I should. I would have just gone off and
Speaker 2: just go who the fuck do you think you were?
Speaker 2: I would just gone off, But because of my older age,
Speaker 2: I became very wise, and I thought, okay, I'm single
Speaker 2: parenting this week. I don't want to end up in
Speaker 2: police station on my birthday? And then what would my
Speaker 2: son think? And I did all of that, so I
Speaker 2: bit my tongue and just kept on walking. I was
Speaker 2: so furious that him and myself, and I think things
Speaker 2: like this make me think, like do I keep on
Speaker 2: being myself and being very feisty outspoken in this kind
Speaker 2: of situation or do I got opposite right? And I
Speaker 2: think when I was attacked when I was eighteen, the
Speaker 2: next day, I change everything, the way I look at things,
Speaker 2: the way I am with myself. I said to myself,
Speaker 2: no one is going to fuck with me anymore, and
Speaker 2: I'm going to stand up for my people. And that's
Speaker 2: why sometimes when people meet me, they don't understand why
Speaker 2: I am the way I am, And when I tell
Speaker 2: them that story, they kind of understand. Because I want
Speaker 2: to break the statement, not only with menopausal women, but
Speaker 2: being an Asian woman, I want to break that kind
Speaker 2: of statement. We're all not quiet, We're all not docile.
Speaker 2: You know, we have a voice. So and also being
Speaker 2: a perimenopausal woman, I just want people to think of
Speaker 2: Asian women differently. Just because we don't get hot flashes
Speaker 2: as much as i you know, maybe a Western woman
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that we're not going through so much. You know,
Speaker 2: at the moment, we're not going through as many symptoms
Speaker 2: as they are.
Speaker 1: That story is I was going to say remarkable, but
Speaker 1: that's probably the wrong word because it probably isn't remarkable
Speaker 1: in terms of, you know, the reality of how regularly
Speaker 1: that shit happens. We did an episode about rage on
Speaker 1: this show, and one of the questions we were discussing
Speaker 1: on it was about me life rage and whether it
Speaker 1: is all hormonal or if there's an element of what
Speaker 1: you were just describing which happened to you when you
Speaker 1: were eighteen, which is this like I'm sick of this shit.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, whoever you are and wherever
Speaker 1: you're from. But the thing is is that your experiences
Speaker 1: that's exactly what you're describing, is like, I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: lie down and suck up this shit. I'm going to
Speaker 1: change it. I'm going to speak out. It takes a
Speaker 1: lot of bravery to do that, but there's often a
Speaker 1: lot of women get to this point of life and
Speaker 1: go I'm fucking done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I've never been that kind of
Speaker 2: person to shut up. So yeah, it's funny when people,
Speaker 2: you know, say to me, oh, I think it's great
Speaker 2: that what you're doing on your Instagram, you know, talk
Speaker 2: about menopause. It's so brave of you. I'm like, brave.
Speaker 2: You know? Is that brave? Because to me, it's very normal,
Speaker 2: you know, I think me, you know, it's actually quite
Speaker 2: abnormal not to tell people stuff. I'm sure sometimes if
Speaker 2: Grace took it down a notch. I definitely like to
Speaker 2: share stories and like to listen to other people's story
Speaker 2: because and then you understand people more, you judge less.
Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing that, Grace. Look, I wanted to
Speaker 1: segue into fashion and the styling work that you do,
Speaker 1: which might sound like a bit of a pivot from
Speaker 1: what we're just discussing, But a lot of what you're
Speaker 1: about is self expression, and I know that's what mid
Speaker 1: women really struggle with their identity, and that extends to
Speaker 1: our wardrobes. Right, So obviously you're a stylist with immense experience,
Speaker 1: and you are clearly very stylish. I can tell just
Speaker 1: from my little window. But obviously I've been looking at
Speaker 1: lots of pictures of you too.
Speaker 2: My tracks at bottom. Yet I'm very tractic.
Speaker 1: I bet they're very cool ones. We're flapping around in
Speaker 1: midlife trying to figure out who we are now. Part
Speaker 1: of that is what they look like and what they
Speaker 1: wear and can I still wear this? Should I still
Speaker 1: wear that? Can I show this bit of my body?
Speaker 1: I'm changing shape? Me are always jokes that our bodies
Speaker 1: are all trying to turn themselves into a circle in midlife.
Speaker 1: They're just try that. It's not necessarily about more weight
Speaker 1: or less weight, but it's this change shape. So what's
Speaker 1: your best advice for dressing your age as it were in.
Speaker 2: I don't believe in dressing your age. I believe in
Speaker 2: if you're happy with what you're wearing, own it. It's
Speaker 2: all about confidence how you walk out. You know, like
Speaker 2: sometimes even as a stylist, I know what suits me
Speaker 2: and what you know don't suit me. But sometimes I
Speaker 2: always push myself to dress myself to a point that
Speaker 2: I haven't. I don't know how to wear this top?
Speaker 2: How can I push it? Because once you push yourself,
Speaker 2: you realize there's a whole new world out there, and
Speaker 2: you realize that, oh, I'm more capable than this. So
Speaker 2: with some of my clients you know, who are in
Speaker 2: middle age, they're always like, oh is this too young
Speaker 2: for me? I'm like, how much you want to wear this?
Speaker 2: And they'll be like really like this look, I'm like,
Speaker 2: just fucking own it. It's all about how you walk out,
Speaker 2: you know, you walk out, you go into the room,
Speaker 2: and you make sure that people are looking at you.
Speaker 2: It's just an aura. Or if you're not comfortable wearing it,
Speaker 2: then don't you know, simple as that. But just for yourself,
Speaker 2: I mean, live once, right, So why can't I wear
Speaker 2: a pair of shorts, you know, just because I'm fifty one?
Speaker 2: I want to own it? You know. So with my
Speaker 2: men or belly, which you can't really see normally, is
Speaker 2: because I know how to not enhance past that I
Speaker 2: don't like. It's all about confidence. And I think when
Speaker 2: a lot of clothes don't fit, that's when women get
Speaker 2: stuck and they'll just go back to the old ways.
Speaker 2: I always say to my clients and when we have
Speaker 2: a starting session, whether I go and visit them at home,
Speaker 2: do we do the wardrobe or go shopping with them?
Speaker 2: I said, be brave. But if you're not the kind
Speaker 2: of brave person to go all out. Just start with
Speaker 2: something small, like an earring, you know, if you're like
Speaker 2: an all black dressed in black all the time, start
Speaker 2: with a small ear ring which is red, or like
Speaker 2: a bracelet or necklace, something you can take off quite easily.
Speaker 2: And then you graduate to like maybe a red pair
Speaker 2: of socks. Maybe if you're wearing all black, maybe red
Speaker 2: pair of shoes to start off with. Just start with
Speaker 2: something small. Once you open up that gate, you will
Speaker 2: be a lot braverer.
Speaker 1: I've seen you describe yourself living in Perth now that
Speaker 1: sometimes you feel like Moira from Shit's Creet.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: I mean because you've got all the fashion, like you know,
Speaker 1: and you're like, where am I wearing this too? Who
Speaker 1: cares I'm wearing?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, So I mean I have to say that,
Speaker 2: you know, Perf people are very chill. I've never seen
Speaker 2: so many like crop tops and like Lulu lemon pens,
Speaker 2: so many in my life in one place. But I
Speaker 2: do find myself that I don't have to dress. I mean,
Speaker 2: I can wear this for five days, no one gives
Speaker 2: a shit. I don't dress for other people. I dress
Speaker 2: for myself. You know, and I dress for my husband,
Speaker 2: you know, and of course, you know, you want your
Speaker 2: partner to be proud of you. You know. I'm not
Speaker 2: saying that men had to validate everything that we do.
Speaker 2: But when your partners say how you look great, you know,
Speaker 2: in in it, of course you feel good, so you
Speaker 2: keep doing it. At the end of the day, you
Speaker 2: have to make yourself feel good to start your day.
Speaker 2: So sometimes I don't even go anywhere special and I'm
Speaker 2: like all red lips and like, you know, wearing all
Speaker 2: my jewelry or whatever and stuff. It's like, because I
Speaker 2: want to feel good. It's all about feeling good, especially
Speaker 2: you know when you're going through menopause.
Speaker 1: What do you love about being the age that you are?
Speaker 2: That I can tell people to fuck off whenever I want,
Speaker 2: you know, I mean not that I don't do that before.
Speaker 2: I think now, I really don't have time for like wenkers.
Speaker 2: If I don't want to hang out with you, I
Speaker 2: will tell you, you know, versus before I'll be like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, let's be polite, let's be da Now. I'm
Speaker 2: just like, you know what, I don't have time to
Speaker 2: see people I like, let alone people I don't like,
Speaker 2: so I'm very precious with my time. Yeah, and also
Speaker 2: I I just don't give a fuck anymore. So you know,
Speaker 2: like I think coming from Hong Kong and you know,
Speaker 2: lived in London a life, and it's tricky to come
Speaker 2: to a place like Perth because it's so chill. But
Speaker 2: I think at a certain age, you don't want to
Speaker 2: go out to all these parties anymore. You don't want
Speaker 2: to hang out with assholes, you know, don't want to
Speaker 2: be seen in a certain place. You know, like my
Speaker 2: great night out is watching Netflix at home with my husband. Yeah,
Speaker 2: go to bed and at ten o'clock, you know, ten
Speaker 2: thirty laters. You know. One interesting thing that happened with
Speaker 2: my taste book during this whole perimenopause, things that I
Speaker 2: completely lost interest in them alcohol. So I haven't been
Speaker 2: drinking at all for like the past two years, but
Speaker 2: we started drinking less before anyway. I mean not that
Speaker 2: we're big drinkers, maybe like a glass here and there,
Speaker 2: but now completely is so not interested. I think your
Speaker 2: taste change a lot during this whole perimenopause phase.
Speaker 1: They do. And also realizing what you want to feel like,
Speaker 1: you know the next day, and all those things that
Speaker 1: it can change so much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I also think that I say no to toxic
Speaker 2: people much easier now compared to before. And I think
Speaker 2: it's really important for women, especially going through this stage,
Speaker 2: to be surrounded by people that understand you and support you,
Speaker 2: because this is so much shit you have to deal
Speaker 2: with every day, and if you're surrounded by peopleho don't
Speaker 2: support me, it's a very hard journey, hard and very
Speaker 2: long journey.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. So, friends, that was our first dance with
Speaker 1: the hormonal monster. What did you think? Did you relate?
Speaker 1: Do you agree with Grace that some of this shit
Speaker 1: has to change at a systemic level for women to
Speaker 1: be able to live their lives and their full lives
Speaker 1: with grace and energy and without shame. Please tell us
Speaker 1: we love reviews here on mid They help us reach
Speaker 1: more women, So please feel free to pop into wherever
Speaker 1: you're listening to this and leave us one. And if
Speaker 1: you want to hear more about lives upturned in midlife,
Speaker 1: may I suggest you go back to our invisibility episode
Speaker 1: of season two with the author Jane Tara. She found
Speaker 1: herself on her fiftieth birthday, dumped via text and with
Speaker 1: a bankrupt business and a whole pile of mester cleanup.
Speaker 1: Her story of pulling herself back into focus is extraordinary too.
Speaker 1: If you want to find out more about Grace her
Speaker 1: business and her menopause advocacy work or the links are
Speaker 1: in our show notes and also, excitingly, as you would
Speaker 1: have gathered from that, Grace has an excellent rollerdex of
Speaker 1: the kind of people you should be following and listening
Speaker 1: to for information about menopause and perimenopause. And we are
Speaker 1: also going to share all of those Remember, though, do
Speaker 1: your own research, taught to your medical professionals, because we
Speaker 1: can't verify everything that's in all of those links, of course,
Speaker 1: but they are the places that Grace finds really helpful
Speaker 1: information and maybe you will too. Big love to you,
Speaker 1: my friends. We'll see you next week when I am
Speaker 1: talking to an Australian journalist about whom the word esteemed
Speaker 1: could have been coined about something that brings our lives
Speaker 1: all sorts of joy and comfort and nourishment. Food and
Speaker 1: thank you to our amazing mid team executive producer Named Brown,
Speaker 1: our producer Charlie Blackman, and audio produces Leah Porge's and
Speaker 1: Tom Lyon see you next week. That was Grace Lamb
Speaker 1: on mid If you loved that conversation and want to
Speaker 1: make sure you never miss a beat with the Unleashed crew,
Speaker 1: make sure you hit follow right here on this feed.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. The Unleashed Team will be back in
Speaker 1: your ears next Tuesday. Mumma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners
Speaker 1: of land waters that this podcast is recorded on