1 00:00:06,415 --> 00:00:09,135 Speaker 1: You're listing tea a Mumma Mea podcast. 2 00:00:13,735 --> 00:00:17,015 Speaker 2: Hey, I'm Taylor Strano. This is Muma MEA's twice daily 3 00:00:17,055 --> 00:00:20,495 Speaker 2: news podcast, The Quickie. As we begin to pick up 4 00:00:20,495 --> 00:00:22,855 Speaker 2: the pieces and come to terms with the horror we 5 00:00:22,935 --> 00:00:27,615 Speaker 2: witnessed on Bondai Beach this past Sunday, another conversation has emerged. 6 00:00:27,975 --> 00:00:31,175 Speaker 2: Australians and the world over will continue to embrace our 7 00:00:31,215 --> 00:00:34,934 Speaker 2: Jewish community as leaders and advocates now dedicate some of 8 00:00:34,975 --> 00:00:38,974 Speaker 2: their attention to our country's gun laws. Police have confirmed 9 00:00:39,095 --> 00:00:42,095 Speaker 2: one of the shooters was a registered gun owner with 10 00:00:42,294 --> 00:00:45,934 Speaker 2: six known firearms to his name. But why does a 11 00:00:45,934 --> 00:00:49,534 Speaker 2: middle aged man living in suburban Sydney needs six long 12 00:00:49,614 --> 00:00:54,375 Speaker 2: armed firearms? Experts, advocates and politicians have started to weigh 13 00:00:54,455 --> 00:00:57,575 Speaker 2: in on the changes that need to be made. We'll 14 00:00:57,575 --> 00:01:00,374 Speaker 2: be catching up with the Prime Minister Anthony Albanezi on 15 00:01:00,415 --> 00:01:03,734 Speaker 2: what comes next with gun reform and the latest on 16 00:01:03,775 --> 00:01:06,895 Speaker 2: the Bondai terror attack. Before we get there, Here is 17 00:01:06,975 --> 00:01:10,175 Speaker 2: Clare Murphy with the latest from the QUICKI newsroom for Wednesday, 18 00:01:10,255 --> 00:01:11,255 Speaker 2: December seventeen. 19 00:01:11,975 --> 00:01:12,695 Speaker 3: Thanks Taylor. 20 00:01:12,735 --> 00:01:16,015 Speaker 4: More and more stories of heroism are emerging as authorities 21 00:01:16,015 --> 00:01:18,455 Speaker 4: pieced together what happened in the moments leading up to 22 00:01:18,615 --> 00:01:22,015 Speaker 4: and during Sunday's terror attack at Bondai. Fifty year old 23 00:01:22,095 --> 00:01:24,655 Speaker 4: Sergird Akram and his son, twenty four year old Navid, 24 00:01:24,815 --> 00:01:27,415 Speaker 4: allegedly fired at scores of people at Bondai Beach on 25 00:01:27,495 --> 00:01:30,655 Speaker 4: Sunday night, many of whom were celebrating the Jewish Festival 26 00:01:30,695 --> 00:01:33,855 Speaker 4: of Lights. Pulice shot dead. Sajid. His son remains in 27 00:01:33,895 --> 00:01:37,334 Speaker 4: hospital in a critical condition under police guard. He reportedly 28 00:01:37,375 --> 00:01:40,855 Speaker 4: awoke from a koma yesterday. Twenty two injured people remain 29 00:01:40,935 --> 00:01:43,975 Speaker 4: in Sydney hospitals, three in a critical condition and six 30 00:01:44,055 --> 00:01:47,655 Speaker 4: in a critical but stable condition. Fifteen people aged between 31 00:01:47,695 --> 00:01:50,895 Speaker 4: ten and eighty seven have died. The world heard about 32 00:01:50,935 --> 00:01:53,655 Speaker 4: Ahmed al Ahmed, who wrestled a rifle from the hands 33 00:01:53,655 --> 00:01:57,095 Speaker 4: of Sajid Akram before being shot several times himself. It's 34 00:01:57,135 --> 00:02:00,055 Speaker 4: since been revealed that another couple successfully took a gun 35 00:02:00,095 --> 00:02:02,455 Speaker 4: from Sajid before he even made it to the bridge, 36 00:02:02,575 --> 00:02:06,135 Speaker 4: where he eventually died. Retired mechanic Boris Skerman and his 37 00:02:06,175 --> 00:02:09,055 Speaker 4: wife Sophia, who worked at Australia Post, both in their 38 00:02:09,135 --> 00:02:11,935 Speaker 4: sixties and who'd been married for thirty four years, were 39 00:02:11,935 --> 00:02:15,735 Speaker 4: caught on dash cam courageously confronting the two gunmen. Boris 40 00:02:15,735 --> 00:02:18,575 Speaker 4: fell to the ground after tackling Sajid before grabbing his 41 00:02:18,655 --> 00:02:21,535 Speaker 4: gun and appearing to hit the attacker with it. The 42 00:02:21,575 --> 00:02:24,055 Speaker 4: attackers then thought to have grabbed another weapon, which he 43 00:02:24,175 --> 00:02:27,454 Speaker 4: used to kill them both. Their family released a statement saying, 44 00:02:27,495 --> 00:02:30,614 Speaker 4: well nothing can lessen the pain of losing Boris and Sofia. 45 00:02:30,735 --> 00:02:33,615 Speaker 4: They feel an overwhelming sense of pride in their bravery 46 00:02:33,655 --> 00:02:36,935 Speaker 4: and selflessness. Channel seven's Natbar has been a Bondai this 47 00:02:36,975 --> 00:02:39,935 Speaker 4: week reporting for the Sunrise program. Now you have been 48 00:02:40,055 --> 00:02:42,175 Speaker 4: at Bondai this week. We spoke to your colleague David 49 00:02:42,175 --> 00:02:44,535 Speaker 4: on Monday, who said it was really strange the morning 50 00:02:44,575 --> 00:02:47,015 Speaker 4: after the attack, how quiet it was without the usual 51 00:02:47,055 --> 00:02:49,335 Speaker 4: dog walkers and people getting their coffees and going for 52 00:02:49,335 --> 00:02:52,215 Speaker 4: a swim. But you will have witnessed what it was 53 00:02:52,295 --> 00:02:55,095 Speaker 4: like to see Bondai really try to pick up the 54 00:02:55,175 --> 00:02:59,815 Speaker 4: pieces and refuse to allow this attack to take something 55 00:02:59,895 --> 00:03:02,455 Speaker 4: from them. What's it been like to witness that this week? 56 00:03:02,975 --> 00:03:07,215 Speaker 5: This story is like no story I've ever covered before. 57 00:03:07,655 --> 00:03:10,455 Speaker 5: A lot of us have been around for a lot 58 00:03:10,455 --> 00:03:15,775 Speaker 5: of years. We've covered terror attacks overseas, We've stood at floods, 59 00:03:16,015 --> 00:03:20,215 Speaker 5: we've stood at fires, We've stood at many tragedies, but 60 00:03:20,415 --> 00:03:24,695 Speaker 5: this would have to be the saddest, most emotional, most 61 00:03:24,735 --> 00:03:32,815 Speaker 5: tragic story I've ever covered. And I think it took 62 00:03:32,935 --> 00:03:37,775 Speaker 5: us obviously all by absolute shock on Sunday, but standing 63 00:03:37,815 --> 00:03:41,895 Speaker 5: down there hour after hour for many of us was 64 00:03:43,775 --> 00:03:50,975 Speaker 5: just terrific. And the silence watching people come out of 65 00:03:51,015 --> 00:03:54,735 Speaker 5: their homes. We stood there for seven hours on Monday, 66 00:03:55,255 --> 00:03:59,015 Speaker 5: and everyone was walking slowly in the streets, the streets 67 00:03:59,055 --> 00:04:01,775 Speaker 5: around us, just near the bridge. We stood a few 68 00:04:01,815 --> 00:04:04,215 Speaker 5: meters from the bridge where it happened, where those awful 69 00:04:04,215 --> 00:04:08,455 Speaker 5: shocks that we all saw where the gunman were firing 70 00:04:08,455 --> 00:04:14,015 Speaker 5: from on Monday, and people were standing at a coffee shop. 71 00:04:14,055 --> 00:04:16,855 Speaker 5: The coffee shop opened and was handing out coffees for free, 72 00:04:17,455 --> 00:04:21,414 Speaker 5: and it was surreal. Everyone, I think wanted to be 73 00:04:21,655 --> 00:04:23,575 Speaker 5: out of their homes, out of their units, out of 74 00:04:23,575 --> 00:04:27,695 Speaker 5: their apartments, and they stood in the streets and quietly 75 00:04:27,775 --> 00:04:32,095 Speaker 5: talked and hugged and just wanted to have human contact. 76 00:04:32,175 --> 00:04:35,455 Speaker 5: I think it was Yeah, it was surreal. 77 00:04:35,935 --> 00:04:41,135 Speaker 4: We've seen an really interesting few days in the aftermath 78 00:04:41,175 --> 00:04:43,775 Speaker 4: of this, of people coming together. As he said to 79 00:04:43,975 --> 00:04:48,335 Speaker 4: grieve in this space, and that's included families of victims. 80 00:04:48,415 --> 00:04:51,335 Speaker 4: Even we saw Matilda, the little ten year old girl 81 00:04:51,375 --> 00:04:54,055 Speaker 4: who was killed in the attack. Her mum and dad 82 00:04:54,055 --> 00:04:56,815 Speaker 4: were speaking to people, claim. 83 00:04:56,615 --> 00:05:00,695 Speaker 6: My oldest son with him, and I was so happous 84 00:05:00,735 --> 00:05:04,735 Speaker 6: of his love there right now, he's not fighting for 85 00:05:04,935 --> 00:05:09,855 Speaker 6: his lif and he's safe here and they couldn't imagine. 86 00:05:10,055 --> 00:05:17,935 Speaker 6: I thought, here, it's just an't it. 87 00:05:18,175 --> 00:05:18,375 Speaker 7: Man. 88 00:05:19,135 --> 00:05:24,375 Speaker 8: Matilda was first one in Australia, and I thought that 89 00:05:24,855 --> 00:05:29,215 Speaker 8: Matilda's the most Australia made, the kindom existed. 90 00:05:31,135 --> 00:05:33,815 Speaker 4: Do you feel like that's that's a little bit of 91 00:05:33,855 --> 00:05:37,375 Speaker 4: a different perspective we've seen here is victims' families coming 92 00:05:37,375 --> 00:05:42,095 Speaker 4: out and actually sharing their grief publicly, helping those around 93 00:05:42,175 --> 00:05:44,135 Speaker 4: them and that community start to heal. 94 00:05:44,655 --> 00:05:49,015 Speaker 5: I think because there were so many victims. You know, 95 00:05:49,095 --> 00:05:53,775 Speaker 5: we know that there were fifteen innocent lives lost, There 96 00:05:53,815 --> 00:05:57,455 Speaker 5: were you know a couple of dozen people still in hospital, 97 00:05:57,615 --> 00:06:01,055 Speaker 5: six of them children. But also there were hundreds of 98 00:06:01,095 --> 00:06:04,094 Speaker 5: people on that beach on Sunday. There are people who 99 00:06:04,135 --> 00:06:07,255 Speaker 5: may never speak about it, who ran for their lives. 100 00:06:07,975 --> 00:06:12,415 Speaker 5: You've seen so many people who've talked to us, who've 101 00:06:12,415 --> 00:06:15,174 Speaker 5: talked to the media or who've gone on social media 102 00:06:15,215 --> 00:06:17,974 Speaker 5: and talked about how they had to run and their 103 00:06:18,015 --> 00:06:21,415 Speaker 5: stories and how they started to say about how that's 104 00:06:21,455 --> 00:06:26,055 Speaker 5: affected them. There are others who haven't gone public or 105 00:06:26,135 --> 00:06:30,935 Speaker 5: have maybe just told a friend. So it's the impact 106 00:06:31,175 --> 00:06:37,655 Speaker 5: is so enormous. And yesterday we were at the Floral Tribute, 107 00:06:37,975 --> 00:06:40,495 Speaker 5: which is just outside the Bondau Pavilion, which of course 108 00:06:40,575 --> 00:06:44,575 Speaker 5: is this iconic building that even if you don't know 109 00:06:44,655 --> 00:06:46,615 Speaker 5: much about Bonda, and you know, we're a national show, 110 00:06:46,695 --> 00:06:49,135 Speaker 5: so we're trying to sort of place it for people 111 00:06:49,135 --> 00:06:52,175 Speaker 5: who may even never have been to Bondai, but everyone 112 00:06:52,215 --> 00:06:54,215 Speaker 5: knows about it and everyone's seen that building. So that 113 00:06:54,335 --> 00:06:57,535 Speaker 5: Floral Tribute's growing. And so we stood there for hours 114 00:06:57,575 --> 00:07:01,695 Speaker 5: and hours yesterday and people would come down from the 115 00:07:01,815 --> 00:07:04,815 Speaker 5: road and walk down that path. As they started, we 116 00:07:04,895 --> 00:07:07,015 Speaker 5: watched them out after hour and as they started to 117 00:07:07,015 --> 00:07:10,614 Speaker 5: walk down that path, every single person burst into text. 118 00:07:12,055 --> 00:07:13,615 Speaker 9: It's just so emotional. 119 00:07:15,175 --> 00:07:17,335 Speaker 10: It's just it's just. 120 00:07:19,415 --> 00:07:19,855 Speaker 11: Gods. 121 00:07:20,055 --> 00:07:24,015 Speaker 10: Just you watch the faces and the the looks in 122 00:07:24,135 --> 00:07:28,095 Speaker 10: people's eyes, and you don't know every story, and we 123 00:07:28,415 --> 00:07:33,895 Speaker 10: may never know every story, but it's there's so much 124 00:07:33,935 --> 00:07:41,135 Speaker 10: feelings to go. We watched people who would have been 125 00:07:41,215 --> 00:07:45,015 Speaker 10: on the beach, people who've had stories told to them 126 00:07:45,055 --> 00:07:48,295 Speaker 10: about what it was like there. People came up to 127 00:07:48,375 --> 00:07:51,855 Speaker 10: us and started hugging us and said, I have a 128 00:07:51,895 --> 00:07:56,855 Speaker 10: friend in hospital and they they're going to lose their limb. 129 00:07:57,575 --> 00:08:00,855 Speaker 10: I know someone who died. I have a friend whose 130 00:08:00,935 --> 00:08:06,695 Speaker 10: husband died in this so many stories, it's felt never ending, 131 00:08:07,535 --> 00:08:09,415 Speaker 10: and that's what it's like to be on that beach 132 00:08:09,495 --> 00:08:10,015 Speaker 10: this week. 133 00:08:10,495 --> 00:08:15,415 Speaker 4: We've also seen so many small acts of kindness in 134 00:08:15,455 --> 00:08:18,535 Speaker 4: that community. You mentioned the coffee shop opened up despite everything, 135 00:08:18,615 --> 00:08:20,895 Speaker 4: just to support people who were coming down there and 136 00:08:20,935 --> 00:08:25,055 Speaker 4: handing out coffees. And we saw somebody collect up everyone's 137 00:08:25,095 --> 00:08:28,055 Speaker 4: belongings off the beach and neatly put them in order, 138 00:08:28,095 --> 00:08:30,375 Speaker 4: and peer up everyone's shoes to make sure that if 139 00:08:30,375 --> 00:08:32,375 Speaker 4: they came back to find their belongings, it was all 140 00:08:32,375 --> 00:08:36,535 Speaker 4: there for them. Does that restore your faith in humanity? 141 00:08:36,574 --> 00:08:38,334 Speaker 4: Just watching people come together like that. 142 00:08:39,335 --> 00:08:42,535 Speaker 10: Yeah. And a lot of the people who were coming 143 00:08:43,255 --> 00:08:48,455 Speaker 10: down to that memorial yesterday were there to support. People 144 00:08:48,495 --> 00:08:54,375 Speaker 10: were standing in arm, people were sitting on the grass, 145 00:08:55,335 --> 00:08:59,054 Speaker 10: some people for more than an hour or two, maybe 146 00:08:59,054 --> 00:09:04,975 Speaker 10: by themselves, in silence. And everyone was hugging. Some of 147 00:09:05,015 --> 00:09:06,855 Speaker 10: them were friends, but you could tell some of them 148 00:09:06,855 --> 00:09:11,175 Speaker 10: were just strangers. They just needed human contact, and I 149 00:09:11,215 --> 00:09:14,695 Speaker 10: think I think that's what people wanted. 150 00:09:15,255 --> 00:09:18,295 Speaker 5: People need to be close. And people were coming up 151 00:09:18,295 --> 00:09:21,815 Speaker 5: to me, you know, and the other broadcasters who were 152 00:09:21,855 --> 00:09:25,295 Speaker 5: there and saying thank you for telling the story when 153 00:09:25,375 --> 00:09:28,775 Speaker 5: it's our jobs for God's sake. But I think everyone 154 00:09:28,975 --> 00:09:34,415 Speaker 5: just needed to be in contact and be really human. 155 00:09:36,255 --> 00:09:41,735 Speaker 5: That was really obvious. It's because it's something we've never 156 00:09:41,815 --> 00:09:44,815 Speaker 5: experienced as a country before. You know, we talk about 157 00:09:44,855 --> 00:09:51,335 Speaker 5: Port Arthur or linked other things, that there was a 158 00:09:51,375 --> 00:09:56,935 Speaker 5: mental health issue involved with a lot of tragedies we've 159 00:09:56,975 --> 00:10:00,895 Speaker 5: experienced in this country. But this was this was so 160 00:10:00,975 --> 00:10:08,135 Speaker 5: deliberate and so premeditated, so planned, which you know, we 161 00:10:08,215 --> 00:10:10,815 Speaker 5: know the details now, we know a lot of the details. 162 00:10:10,935 --> 00:10:13,934 Speaker 5: And I think that there's so much shock as well 163 00:10:13,975 --> 00:10:20,694 Speaker 5: as grief involved in this story, and so many heroes. 164 00:10:20,775 --> 00:10:24,855 Speaker 5: We obviously know about the man who you know, who 165 00:10:24,895 --> 00:10:28,695 Speaker 5: went and put his life in danger to tackle, but 166 00:10:28,815 --> 00:10:36,575 Speaker 5: also now the couple who lost their lives trying to him, 167 00:10:37,575 --> 00:10:42,375 Speaker 5: you know, off the streets. So I think I think 168 00:10:42,415 --> 00:10:46,815 Speaker 5: everyone just wants to try and see some good in 169 00:10:46,975 --> 00:10:50,735 Speaker 5: society and that's why they're trying to be around good people. 170 00:10:51,135 --> 00:10:53,935 Speaker 3: What it felt like, Nat, Thank you so much for 171 00:10:53,975 --> 00:10:57,255 Speaker 3: sharing your experience with us this morning, and thank you 172 00:10:57,295 --> 00:11:00,054 Speaker 3: for helping us bring this story to everyone really appreciate it, 173 00:11:00,054 --> 00:11:02,255 Speaker 3: and we hope you and your colleagues are taking good 174 00:11:02,255 --> 00:11:04,495 Speaker 3: care of yourselves and each other as we all try 175 00:11:04,495 --> 00:11:05,415 Speaker 3: to recover from this thing. 176 00:11:05,495 --> 00:11:05,735 Speaker 4: Thank you. 177 00:11:06,375 --> 00:11:08,775 Speaker 10: Yeah, it'll be a long haul for those who were 178 00:11:08,815 --> 00:11:10,255 Speaker 10: down there. Thank you very much. 179 00:11:10,335 --> 00:11:14,415 Speaker 4: Clar Australian Federal Police Commissioner Chrissy Barrett has spoken about 180 00:11:14,415 --> 00:11:17,694 Speaker 4: the potential motive for Sunday's terror attack, saying it appears 181 00:11:17,695 --> 00:11:20,375 Speaker 4: the alleged killers were interested only in a quest for 182 00:11:20,415 --> 00:11:23,615 Speaker 4: a death tally. She explained that early indications pointed to 183 00:11:23,655 --> 00:11:26,695 Speaker 4: a terrorist attack inspired by Islamic State and that there 184 00:11:26,735 --> 00:11:29,735 Speaker 4: was no evidence to suggest other people were involved, but 185 00:11:29,895 --> 00:11:33,215 Speaker 4: cautioned it was an initial assessment and subject to change. 186 00:11:33,335 --> 00:11:36,095 Speaker 4: Barrett said the investigation was ongoing as the new South 187 00:11:36,135 --> 00:11:40,015 Speaker 4: Wales Joint Counter Terrorism Team continues through review materials seized 188 00:11:40,095 --> 00:11:43,855 Speaker 4: during search warrants. Sajed Akram was originally from the southern 189 00:11:43,855 --> 00:11:47,055 Speaker 4: Indian city of Hyderabad, but had limited contact with his 190 00:11:47,135 --> 00:11:50,415 Speaker 4: family in India. Police say the family members have expressed 191 00:11:50,415 --> 00:11:53,535 Speaker 4: no knowledge of his radical mindset or activities, nor of 192 00:11:53,575 --> 00:11:57,175 Speaker 4: the circumstances that led to his radicalization. New South Wales 193 00:11:57,215 --> 00:12:00,495 Speaker 4: Police Commissioner mal Lanyon was challenged about why Sajed Akram 194 00:12:00,575 --> 00:12:03,535 Speaker 4: was granted a permit allowing him to carry six firearms 195 00:12:03,535 --> 00:12:05,814 Speaker 4: four years after his son had come to the tension 196 00:12:05,855 --> 00:12:09,415 Speaker 4: of Azio for affiliating with a radical Islamist preacher in Sydney. 197 00:12:09,695 --> 00:12:12,935 Speaker 4: Premier Chris Mins stepped in to defend police, saying there 198 00:12:12,975 --> 00:12:16,375 Speaker 4: are also officers in hospital recovering from wounds they received 199 00:12:16,655 --> 00:12:19,694 Speaker 4: after running towards the gunfire, and that Parliament would be 200 00:12:19,775 --> 00:12:23,055 Speaker 4: recalled before Christmas to pass tougher gun laws. The son 201 00:12:23,215 --> 00:12:25,895 Speaker 4: of former AFL player Steve Silvanni will learn his fate 202 00:12:25,935 --> 00:12:28,694 Speaker 4: today as he faces a potential maximum twenty five year 203 00:12:28,775 --> 00:12:31,735 Speaker 4: jail term for rape. Twenty three year old Tom Sylvanni 204 00:12:31,775 --> 00:12:34,455 Speaker 4: denied he digitally raped the young woman twice in the 205 00:12:34,495 --> 00:12:37,495 Speaker 4: early hours of January fourteen last year as she slept 206 00:12:37,495 --> 00:12:40,855 Speaker 4: in his Melbourne home, but Victorian court jury rejected his 207 00:12:40,895 --> 00:12:43,135 Speaker 4: story and found him guilty of two counts of rape 208 00:12:43,175 --> 00:12:46,215 Speaker 4: on December five. At a pre sentencing hearing on Friday, 209 00:12:46,215 --> 00:12:49,215 Speaker 4: Sylvanni's barrister argued that his client should receive a lighter 210 00:12:49,295 --> 00:12:51,895 Speaker 4: sentence because he was a young man whose time and 211 00:12:51,935 --> 00:12:55,255 Speaker 4: custody would be more difficult. He pointed to Sylvanni's poor 212 00:12:55,295 --> 00:12:58,454 Speaker 4: mental health and documented suicide risk, as well as the 213 00:12:58,455 --> 00:13:02,295 Speaker 4: additional punishment he faced from extensive media attention. He urged 214 00:13:02,335 --> 00:13:04,495 Speaker 4: the judge to send in Sylvanni to a non parole 215 00:13:04,535 --> 00:13:06,334 Speaker 4: period that would act as light at the end of 216 00:13:06,375 --> 00:13:10,095 Speaker 4: the tunnel. The prosecution, however, reminded the court about Sylvanni's 217 00:13:10,135 --> 00:13:12,735 Speaker 4: series of lies, where he claimed to be his friend 218 00:13:12,815 --> 00:13:15,775 Speaker 4: during the rape itself, and then doctored an uber receipt 219 00:13:15,855 --> 00:13:17,695 Speaker 4: so it looked like the other man left the house 220 00:13:17,775 --> 00:13:20,775 Speaker 4: later than he did. His friend had had consensual sex 221 00:13:20,815 --> 00:13:22,855 Speaker 4: with the woman at the home earlier in the night, 222 00:13:23,135 --> 00:13:25,935 Speaker 4: and left in the uber before Sylvanni raped her. The 223 00:13:25,975 --> 00:13:29,775 Speaker 4: prosecutor described the deceptions as calculated and said Sylvanni had 224 00:13:29,775 --> 00:13:33,375 Speaker 4: clearly taken advantage of a vulnerable woman. The victim herself 225 00:13:33,415 --> 00:13:37,255 Speaker 4: confronted her rapist during the pre sentence hearing, describing Sylvanni's 226 00:13:37,255 --> 00:13:40,455 Speaker 4: crimes as evil and a violation of her body and trust. 227 00:13:40,935 --> 00:13:44,055 Speaker 4: And Jelina Joli has shared her mystectomy scars in a 228 00:13:44,095 --> 00:13:48,015 Speaker 4: new photoshoot. The fifty year old underwent a preventative doublemystectomy 229 00:13:48,054 --> 00:13:51,415 Speaker 4: in twenty thirteen after learning she had the Bracker one gene, 230 00:13:51,455 --> 00:13:54,975 Speaker 4: which significantly increased her risk of breast and ovarian cancer. 231 00:13:55,415 --> 00:13:57,895 Speaker 4: She told Time France, who published the pictures in their 232 00:13:57,895 --> 00:14:00,935 Speaker 4: new issue, I share these scars with many women I love, 233 00:14:01,215 --> 00:14:03,855 Speaker 4: and I'm always moved when I see other women share theirs, 234 00:14:04,095 --> 00:14:06,375 Speaker 4: she said. I wanted to join them, knowing that Time 235 00:14:06,415 --> 00:14:09,495 Speaker 4: France would be sharing information about breast health prevention and 236 00:14:09,575 --> 00:14:10,895 Speaker 4: knowledge about breast cancer. 237 00:14:11,535 --> 00:14:12,175 Speaker 1: Thanks Claire. 238 00:14:12,255 --> 00:14:16,215 Speaker 2: Next, Australia's gun laws under the microscope, we'll be asking 239 00:14:16,255 --> 00:14:17,895 Speaker 2: the PM what happens now. 240 00:14:25,775 --> 00:14:27,655 Speaker 1: When you ask a typical ossie. 241 00:14:27,295 --> 00:14:30,655 Speaker 2: About guns in Australia, you'll usually get the same response. 242 00:14:31,295 --> 00:14:33,735 Speaker 2: We don't really have them here. We got rid of 243 00:14:33,775 --> 00:14:37,695 Speaker 2: them after Port Arthur or that's more an American thing. 244 00:14:38,535 --> 00:14:40,855 Speaker 2: And while they're not wrong, the numbers of guns owned 245 00:14:40,855 --> 00:14:44,535 Speaker 2: by civilians in circulation right now across the country tops 246 00:14:44,575 --> 00:14:48,215 Speaker 2: more than four million. That's according to research published by 247 00:14:48,255 --> 00:14:51,935 Speaker 2: the Australia Institute a little earlier this year to put 248 00:14:51,935 --> 00:14:55,255 Speaker 2: that into perspective, it's twenty five percent higher the number 249 00:14:55,295 --> 00:14:59,375 Speaker 2: of firearms around in nineteen ninety six. Now, there are 250 00:14:59,415 --> 00:15:02,695 Speaker 2: many factors as to why that number has significantly increased, 251 00:15:02,815 --> 00:15:06,295 Speaker 2: but it sits almost in direct opposition to decision made 252 00:15:06,295 --> 00:15:11,775 Speaker 2: by the Howard government in ninety six around Australia's gun laws. 253 00:15:12,975 --> 00:15:13,815 Speaker 1: As a direct. 254 00:15:13,575 --> 00:15:16,815 Speaker 2: Response to the Port Arthur massacre, Australia's worst mass shooting 255 00:15:16,895 --> 00:15:20,215 Speaker 2: on record, which claimed the lives of thirty five people, 256 00:15:20,655 --> 00:15:24,255 Speaker 2: then Prime Minister John Howard announced sweeping changes to the law, 257 00:15:24,695 --> 00:15:28,455 Speaker 2: including the introduction of the National Firearms Agreement and the 258 00:15:28,495 --> 00:15:32,015 Speaker 2: banning of semi automatic rifles similar to the one used 259 00:15:32,015 --> 00:15:35,535 Speaker 2: by the shooter at the time, which brings us to 260 00:15:35,575 --> 00:15:39,775 Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. On Sunday, December fourteen, the world watched 261 00:15:39,815 --> 00:15:43,375 Speaker 2: on in horror as two men, father and son, opened 262 00:15:43,735 --> 00:15:46,735 Speaker 2: in what we now know was a targeted terrorist attack 263 00:15:47,015 --> 00:15:50,935 Speaker 2: on a Jewish gathering at Bondai Beach. The fifty year 264 00:15:50,935 --> 00:15:53,695 Speaker 2: old man shot dead by police was revealed to have 265 00:15:53,735 --> 00:15:56,095 Speaker 2: been in possession of a gun license since. 266 00:15:55,895 --> 00:15:57,255 Speaker 1: Twenty twenty three. 267 00:15:57,615 --> 00:15:59,695 Speaker 2: He was even a member of a local gun club 268 00:15:59,975 --> 00:16:04,255 Speaker 2: and had six firearms registered to his name. It's now 269 00:16:04,335 --> 00:16:06,895 Speaker 2: also been revealed the pair traveled to the Philippines in 270 00:16:06,935 --> 00:16:11,295 Speaker 2: November this year, participating in military style training, and returning 271 00:16:11,295 --> 00:16:14,735 Speaker 2: to Australia just weeks before the attack. New South Wales 272 00:16:14,775 --> 00:16:18,095 Speaker 2: Police Commissioner Mel Lanyon has brought further details about the 273 00:16:18,135 --> 00:16:19,415 Speaker 2: pair to the public's attention. 274 00:16:20,615 --> 00:16:23,295 Speaker 7: I also confirmed that the vehicle, which is registered to 275 00:16:23,375 --> 00:16:27,855 Speaker 7: the younger male, contained IEDs, but I also confirm that 276 00:16:27,895 --> 00:16:31,815 Speaker 7: it contained two homemade ISIS flags. We continue to work 277 00:16:31,855 --> 00:16:36,095 Speaker 7: through the motive of this tragedy and will continue. 278 00:16:35,655 --> 00:16:36,055 Speaker 9: To do so. 279 00:16:37,015 --> 00:16:39,735 Speaker 2: And it's from here questions have started to be raised, 280 00:16:40,455 --> 00:16:43,255 Speaker 2: mainly about why a man living in suburban Australia is 281 00:16:43,295 --> 00:16:46,375 Speaker 2: able to have six guns and if our laws around 282 00:16:46,375 --> 00:16:51,055 Speaker 2: gun ownership and regulation do a refresh. The Prime Minister 283 00:16:51,095 --> 00:16:54,215 Speaker 2: put gun reform on the agenda as National Cabinet met 284 00:16:54,255 --> 00:16:57,535 Speaker 2: this week. The New South Wales Premier also committing to 285 00:16:57,575 --> 00:17:00,415 Speaker 2: re examine the laws at a state level too. But 286 00:17:00,695 --> 00:17:04,734 Speaker 2: what impact will it have? Let's ask Prime Minister Anthony Albanezi. 287 00:17:06,175 --> 00:17:09,175 Speaker 2: Prime Minister, you've been down in Bondai speaking with members 288 00:17:09,175 --> 00:17:10,655 Speaker 2: of the Jewish community. 289 00:17:10,254 --> 00:17:12,494 Speaker 1: Over the last few days. How are they feeling? 290 00:17:12,935 --> 00:17:13,054 Speaker 2: Well? 291 00:17:13,094 --> 00:17:17,215 Speaker 9: They're feeling devastated. This was an attack that was targeted 292 00:17:17,774 --> 00:17:21,854 Speaker 9: at Harneka the first day what should be a joyous 293 00:17:21,935 --> 00:17:25,614 Speaker 9: celebration the Festival of Light, and what we saw was 294 00:17:25,655 --> 00:17:29,734 Speaker 9: a very dark moment. So they are feeling very upset, 295 00:17:29,935 --> 00:17:37,014 Speaker 9: understandably for many of them who've lost family or loved ones, friends, 296 00:17:37,655 --> 00:17:41,574 Speaker 9: they are feeling traumatized. This is not the Australian way 297 00:17:41,975 --> 00:17:44,854 Speaker 9: and therefore, I think one of the things that we 298 00:17:44,895 --> 00:17:49,254 Speaker 9: are seeing though is Australians overwhelmingly reach out to members 299 00:17:49,254 --> 00:17:53,254 Speaker 9: of the Jewish community to embrace them, to respect them, 300 00:17:53,574 --> 00:17:56,454 Speaker 9: and to stand with them at this difficult time. 301 00:17:56,895 --> 00:18:00,014 Speaker 2: We keep hearing that this is not our Australia and 302 00:18:00,054 --> 00:18:03,294 Speaker 2: this should never have happened in Australia. So why and 303 00:18:03,375 --> 00:18:04,135 Speaker 2: how did it? 304 00:18:04,814 --> 00:18:07,814 Speaker 9: Well these his father and son. The evidence is that 305 00:18:07,854 --> 00:18:12,455 Speaker 9: they were motivated by the sort of ideology of the 306 00:18:12,655 --> 00:18:17,294 Speaker 9: Islamic state. That there were flags present in the back 307 00:18:17,375 --> 00:18:22,534 Speaker 9: of their vehicle that they drove to Bondi in order 308 00:18:22,734 --> 00:18:28,935 Speaker 9: to cause harm. This is a perverse ideology, a terrorist 309 00:18:29,054 --> 00:18:35,254 Speaker 9: ideology that does not respect human life and that is 310 00:18:35,695 --> 00:18:39,695 Speaker 9: any Semitic in character, but anty humanity as well. And 311 00:18:39,814 --> 00:18:44,094 Speaker 9: tragically we've seen that play out at that iconic Australian 312 00:18:44,215 --> 00:18:45,814 Speaker 9: venue of Bondo Beach. 313 00:18:46,614 --> 00:18:50,014 Speaker 2: You mentioned there the homemade flag that was recovered. Also, 314 00:18:50,054 --> 00:18:52,414 Speaker 2: we know these two men traveled to the Philippines for 315 00:18:52,614 --> 00:18:56,614 Speaker 2: military style training. Does this indicate an intelligence failure? 316 00:18:57,014 --> 00:19:01,814 Speaker 9: Well, it indicates people, of course traveling overseas. That's what 317 00:19:02,014 --> 00:19:07,054 Speaker 9: Australians do from time to time, and the issue of 318 00:19:07,655 --> 00:19:12,854 Speaker 9: their radicalization is one that is still, of course part 319 00:19:12,895 --> 00:19:17,975 Speaker 9: of the investigation that's taking place. But it is also 320 00:19:18,094 --> 00:19:21,774 Speaker 9: the case that they were not seen to be persons 321 00:19:22,014 --> 00:19:27,014 Speaker 9: of interest and that is why this is such a 322 00:19:27,054 --> 00:19:27,854 Speaker 9: shocking event. 323 00:19:28,655 --> 00:19:31,534 Speaker 2: We've now received reports that one of the alleged gunman, 324 00:19:31,614 --> 00:19:35,174 Speaker 2: Navide Akram, has regained consciousness in hospital. 325 00:19:35,455 --> 00:19:37,374 Speaker 1: What happens now in that regard. 326 00:19:37,695 --> 00:19:43,095 Speaker 9: That information is correct, he will be charged formally, if 327 00:19:43,094 --> 00:19:46,695 Speaker 9: he hasn't been so already. I would expect that will 328 00:19:46,695 --> 00:19:49,254 Speaker 9: take place over the coming hours. 329 00:19:49,494 --> 00:19:51,455 Speaker 2: I want to talk Prime Minister about one of the 330 00:19:52,014 --> 00:19:56,175 Speaker 2: many people who've emerged as a hero in what has 331 00:19:56,215 --> 00:20:00,655 Speaker 2: been just awake of horror. That of course is Ahmed Alhahmed, 332 00:20:00,895 --> 00:20:03,054 Speaker 2: the man who wrestled a gun away from one of 333 00:20:03,094 --> 00:20:06,094 Speaker 2: the alleged shooters. He's now broken his silent He's thanked 334 00:20:06,175 --> 00:20:08,695 Speaker 2: people for their efforts from his hospital bed. 335 00:20:09,415 --> 00:20:12,575 Speaker 1: You were able to visit him. How is he? 336 00:20:12,574 --> 00:20:16,334 Speaker 9: He was remarkably humble for someone who is clearly a hero. 337 00:20:16,854 --> 00:20:21,655 Speaker 9: He went through his experience in great detail. He had 338 00:20:21,774 --> 00:20:26,135 Speaker 9: visited Bondo Beach with a couple of relative and friends 339 00:20:26,655 --> 00:20:29,774 Speaker 9: to get a cup of coffee on a Sunday afternoon. 340 00:20:30,254 --> 00:20:35,894 Speaker 9: He ran into the area where the Haneker festival was 341 00:20:35,975 --> 00:20:39,374 Speaker 9: taking place with the members of the Jewish community. They 342 00:20:39,415 --> 00:20:43,294 Speaker 9: invited him to participate, to come in to where the 343 00:20:43,294 --> 00:20:46,214 Speaker 9: festival was taking place, so he was aware of that. 344 00:20:46,455 --> 00:20:48,254 Speaker 9: He was just looking for a cup of coffee in 345 00:20:48,294 --> 00:20:52,774 Speaker 9: a quiet Sunday afternoon. And he will go through surgery. 346 00:20:53,175 --> 00:20:57,774 Speaker 9: He is a brave Australian and shows the best of 347 00:20:57,814 --> 00:21:01,214 Speaker 9: the Australian character. And I think at a time where 348 00:21:01,655 --> 00:21:05,974 Speaker 9: people are so devastated by what has happened, this is 349 00:21:06,415 --> 00:21:11,654 Speaker 9: an element of light in this period where darkness descended 350 00:21:11,734 --> 00:21:17,135 Speaker 9: upon Bondo Beach and all Australians. I think we'll look 351 00:21:17,215 --> 00:21:21,094 Speaker 9: at Armadel armored and just say that is someone who 352 00:21:21,375 --> 00:21:25,174 Speaker 9: has risked his own life in order to help others. 353 00:21:25,935 --> 00:21:29,695 Speaker 9: I certainly wish him all the very best to hope 354 00:21:29,695 --> 00:21:31,135 Speaker 9: that he comes through the surgery. 355 00:21:31,254 --> 00:21:31,655 Speaker 10: Okay. 356 00:21:32,014 --> 00:21:34,415 Speaker 9: I met his father and mother who are visiting him 357 00:21:34,695 --> 00:21:38,734 Speaker 9: here in Australia at the moment, and they're quite rightly 358 00:21:38,814 --> 00:21:39,774 Speaker 9: proud of their son. 359 00:21:40,455 --> 00:21:44,054 Speaker 2: Mister, there's been criticism of your action to anti Semitism 360 00:21:44,215 --> 00:21:48,095 Speaker 2: since the rise in attacks since October seven. Just into 361 00:21:48,094 --> 00:21:50,374 Speaker 2: an amber timber Price saying that you're not fit to 362 00:21:50,455 --> 00:21:53,134 Speaker 2: hold the office that you occupy. What's your response to 363 00:21:53,175 --> 00:21:56,175 Speaker 2: these growing concerns and criticism that not enough is being 364 00:21:56,294 --> 00:21:58,494 Speaker 2: done to stamp out anti Semitism. 365 00:21:58,935 --> 00:22:04,215 Speaker 9: We've been working through the range of issues and this 366 00:22:04,254 --> 00:22:07,054 Speaker 9: isn't a time for politics. This is a time to 367 00:22:07,455 --> 00:22:11,454 Speaker 9: unite as a nation. We have implemented hate speech laws. 368 00:22:11,574 --> 00:22:16,855 Speaker 9: We've outlawed Nazi symbols. We've introduced the first ever Special 369 00:22:17,014 --> 00:22:21,734 Speaker 9: Envoy on Anti Semitism in Australia. We've introduced and appointed 370 00:22:21,774 --> 00:22:26,654 Speaker 9: a National Student Ombardsman. We're having education in schools. We 371 00:22:26,695 --> 00:22:32,774 Speaker 9: have implemented a comprehensive security program to assist the Jewish community. 372 00:22:33,175 --> 00:22:37,975 Speaker 9: We're funding a National Holocaust Education Center in Canberra, as 373 00:22:37,975 --> 00:22:41,334 Speaker 9: well as increased funding that's been available for the Sydney 374 00:22:41,455 --> 00:22:47,814 Speaker 9: Jewish Museum and for Jewish cultural institutions in Perth, in Melbourne. 375 00:22:48,175 --> 00:22:51,254 Speaker 9: We have had a comprehensive response. There's more to do 376 00:22:52,054 --> 00:22:55,975 Speaker 9: and we want to continue to work with members of 377 00:22:56,334 --> 00:23:00,215 Speaker 9: the Jewish community and particularly with the Special Envoy on 378 00:23:00,574 --> 00:23:04,654 Speaker 9: anti Semitism. This isn't something in which you pass the 379 00:23:04,734 --> 00:23:08,815 Speaker 9: law and it's done. This is about attitudes. Any Semitism 380 00:23:08,895 --> 00:23:13,014 Speaker 9: has been around for a very long period of time. 381 00:23:13,415 --> 00:23:17,054 Speaker 9: Every Australiant has the right to go about their business, 382 00:23:17,135 --> 00:23:21,894 Speaker 9: practice their faith and to do so in safety and 383 00:23:21,935 --> 00:23:25,655 Speaker 9: security here in Australia. 384 00:23:24,895 --> 00:23:28,455 Speaker 2: Prime Minister, a lot of people's attention now is focusing 385 00:23:28,895 --> 00:23:32,294 Speaker 2: not just on mourning the loss of life and this tragedy, 386 00:23:32,334 --> 00:23:36,415 Speaker 2: but also looking at things like changes to our gun laws. 387 00:23:36,455 --> 00:23:40,175 Speaker 2: If stricter restrictions could have helped prevent something like this. Now, 388 00:23:40,375 --> 00:23:43,174 Speaker 2: the new South Wales Premier Chris Mins has already committed 389 00:23:43,175 --> 00:23:44,894 Speaker 2: to reexamining them at the state level. 390 00:23:45,054 --> 00:23:46,094 Speaker 1: You've put this to. 391 00:23:46,014 --> 00:23:48,374 Speaker 2: The National Cabinet and we now know that that is 392 00:23:48,774 --> 00:23:51,894 Speaker 2: something that will be looked upon. Can you talk to 393 00:23:51,935 --> 00:23:54,014 Speaker 2: me a little bit about what that could look like 394 00:23:54,054 --> 00:23:57,094 Speaker 2: and realistically when we could see this type of legislation 395 00:23:57,254 --> 00:23:58,455 Speaker 2: passed well. 396 00:23:58,455 --> 00:24:02,695 Speaker 9: The reason why I have taken that proposal from the 397 00:24:02,774 --> 00:24:06,134 Speaker 9: New so Wales Premier to the national cabinets. Gun laws 398 00:24:06,175 --> 00:24:08,415 Speaker 9: are only as strong as the weakest link in them, 399 00:24:09,054 --> 00:24:13,455 Speaker 9: because unless all states strengthen their laws, then there will 400 00:24:13,494 --> 00:24:18,414 Speaker 9: be gaps in the system. So we're looking at accelerating 401 00:24:18,494 --> 00:24:24,175 Speaker 9: the National Firearms Register so that essentially it can be digitized, 402 00:24:24,854 --> 00:24:29,695 Speaker 9: so that there can be seamless information got across jurisdictions, 403 00:24:30,494 --> 00:24:35,655 Speaker 9: allowing additional use of criminal intelligence, not just looking up 404 00:24:35,774 --> 00:24:40,254 Speaker 9: for criminal charges and looking at a rap sheet of 405 00:24:40,294 --> 00:24:45,375 Speaker 9: someone who's applying for a firearms license, but looking at 406 00:24:45,455 --> 00:24:49,894 Speaker 9: intelligence issues as well, including if there's any perception of 407 00:24:50,054 --> 00:24:55,615 Speaker 9: risks there and considering issues such as does someone who 408 00:24:55,774 --> 00:24:59,854 Speaker 9: is living in Bonnie Rig in Sydney suburbs need six 409 00:24:59,975 --> 00:25:04,934 Speaker 9: firearms even if they are a member of a gun club, 410 00:25:05,655 --> 00:25:09,415 Speaker 9: looking at that issue, looking at whether there's a need 411 00:25:09,455 --> 00:25:12,894 Speaker 9: to limit open ended firearms licensing, on whether there's a 412 00:25:12,935 --> 00:25:17,654 Speaker 9: need for ongoing review or reapplication, just like occurs with 413 00:25:18,094 --> 00:25:22,614 Speaker 9: a driver's license, and whether we need to make Australie 414 00:25:22,695 --> 00:25:27,334 Speaker 9: citizenship condition of holding a firearm license as well. Seems 415 00:25:27,334 --> 00:25:31,455 Speaker 9: to me to be a common sense moves that I'm 416 00:25:31,534 --> 00:25:35,934 Speaker 9: hopeful states and territories will agree to. What National Cabinet 417 00:25:35,935 --> 00:25:39,135 Speaker 9: has done is tasks the New Swales Premier Chrismin's and 418 00:25:39,655 --> 00:25:43,054 Speaker 9: the WA Premier Roger Cook to come back to National 419 00:25:43,094 --> 00:25:47,494 Speaker 9: Cabinet early next year as early as possible with an 420 00:25:47,574 --> 00:25:52,654 Speaker 9: agreement from states and territories about moving forward through the 421 00:25:52,734 --> 00:25:58,214 Speaker 9: various jurisdictions. Because licensing is done by the states and territories, 422 00:25:58,534 --> 00:26:02,135 Speaker 9: the commo's role is just trying to seek to coordinate 423 00:26:02,415 --> 00:26:03,214 Speaker 9: that activity. 424 00:26:03,975 --> 00:26:07,174 Speaker 2: Well, we've actually received reports that some gunshop owners have 425 00:26:07,294 --> 00:26:11,655 Speaker 2: seen huge volumes of calls this week for orders licenses 426 00:26:11,854 --> 00:26:15,014 Speaker 2: after talk of reform coming. Should we be worried about 427 00:26:15,215 --> 00:26:18,094 Speaker 2: an influx of more guns and owners before changes can 428 00:26:18,135 --> 00:26:18,734 Speaker 2: be made. 429 00:26:19,014 --> 00:26:22,134 Speaker 9: Well, I want to see less guns available rather than more, 430 00:26:22,935 --> 00:26:26,815 Speaker 9: and I want people who have a legitimate use of guns, 431 00:26:26,895 --> 00:26:31,494 Speaker 9: people in regional communities often it's a part of landholding 432 00:26:31,574 --> 00:26:38,734 Speaker 9: as well in our rural and agricultural sector, people engaged 433 00:26:38,854 --> 00:26:44,174 Speaker 9: if they're in supporting shooters organizations as a range of 434 00:26:44,375 --> 00:26:47,935 Speaker 9: legitimate use of guns. But what we need to do 435 00:26:48,135 --> 00:26:51,654 Speaker 9: as well, and part of the agreement was to again 436 00:26:52,094 --> 00:26:56,854 Speaker 9: emphasize the gun buyback provisions that are available and for 437 00:26:56,975 --> 00:27:01,014 Speaker 9: us also to look at customs as well. Is there 438 00:27:01,294 --> 00:27:04,895 Speaker 9: are there changes in technology such as three D printing 439 00:27:05,215 --> 00:27:10,135 Speaker 9: that weren't around when the gun laws were first implemented 440 00:27:10,175 --> 00:27:12,215 Speaker 9: in the like of Port Arthur back in nine to 441 00:27:12,294 --> 00:27:12,895 Speaker 9: ninety six. 442 00:27:13,294 --> 00:27:16,534 Speaker 2: But what do advocates and experts say. Roland Brown is 443 00:27:16,574 --> 00:27:19,774 Speaker 2: a lawyer and the vice chair of Gun Control Australia. 444 00:27:19,935 --> 00:27:23,294 Speaker 2: He's been involved in gun reform since nineteen eighty seven 445 00:27:23,574 --> 00:27:26,175 Speaker 2: and as a Tassi native who lived through the Port 446 00:27:26,294 --> 00:27:29,375 Speaker 2: Arthur massacre, seeing the events of the Bondai Beach terror 447 00:27:29,415 --> 00:27:32,695 Speaker 2: attack only reaffirmed for Roland that we must approach gun 448 00:27:32,774 --> 00:27:34,574 Speaker 2: laws in Australia with urgency. 449 00:27:35,375 --> 00:27:36,415 Speaker 1: Roland, A lot. 450 00:27:36,334 --> 00:27:38,174 Speaker 2: Of US are familiar with how easy it is to 451 00:27:38,215 --> 00:27:42,135 Speaker 2: get access to guns somewhere, like say the USA. When 452 00:27:42,215 --> 00:27:45,494 Speaker 2: it comes to guns here though, it feels like it 453 00:27:45,534 --> 00:27:48,615 Speaker 2: is less common. Maybe we know that farmers have them, 454 00:27:48,614 --> 00:27:52,455 Speaker 2: obviously police have guns. What's the reality actually like in 455 00:27:52,494 --> 00:27:54,815 Speaker 2: Australia though, when it comes to gun laws. 456 00:27:54,975 --> 00:27:58,054 Speaker 11: Well, as a rule, you have to have a good 457 00:27:58,094 --> 00:28:02,294 Speaker 11: reason to get a gun license in Australia. You have 458 00:28:02,415 --> 00:28:05,054 Speaker 11: to pass a test that you're a fit and proper 459 00:28:05,094 --> 00:28:10,254 Speaker 11: person because you're a collector. But there's also a category 460 00:28:10,294 --> 00:28:14,054 Speaker 11: of deemed good reason, which is being a recreational hunter, 461 00:28:14,655 --> 00:28:17,654 Speaker 11: and for that category it's relatively easy to get a 462 00:28:17,655 --> 00:28:21,134 Speaker 11: gun license, and those are the most popular category of 463 00:28:21,135 --> 00:28:26,175 Speaker 11: gun licenses across Australia. That was the category of license 464 00:28:26,215 --> 00:28:30,215 Speaker 11: that the Bondai shooter had and with that gun license 465 00:28:30,334 --> 00:28:31,974 Speaker 11: he was able to have six guns. 466 00:28:32,054 --> 00:28:34,654 Speaker 2: Yeah. So in regards to the Bondai Beach terror attack 467 00:28:34,774 --> 00:28:37,494 Speaker 2: you've mentioned there and police have confirmed that one of 468 00:28:37,494 --> 00:28:39,934 Speaker 2: those men was in possession of six firearms. They were 469 00:28:39,935 --> 00:28:42,535 Speaker 2: all registered to him. He had the license, he was 470 00:28:42,535 --> 00:28:45,495 Speaker 2: a member of a gun club. He lived in suburban Sydney. 471 00:28:45,535 --> 00:28:48,255 Speaker 2: Does that all seem typical of someone to own that 472 00:28:48,334 --> 00:28:51,415 Speaker 2: many guns, those six of them, living in suburban Sydney, 473 00:28:51,854 --> 00:28:54,495 Speaker 2: he had the like you said, of that particular license. 474 00:28:55,854 --> 00:29:00,055 Speaker 11: Look, it's common across many of the suburban areas of 475 00:29:00,094 --> 00:29:05,815 Speaker 11: Australia where people get a recreational hunting license and buy 476 00:29:05,895 --> 00:29:09,375 Speaker 11: their guns and keep them in their home. The states 477 00:29:09,495 --> 00:29:13,134 Speaker 11: vary about the extent or the numbers that each state 478 00:29:13,215 --> 00:29:16,975 Speaker 11: will allow in the way firearms. I think New South 479 00:29:16,975 --> 00:29:20,695 Speaker 11: Wales is probably the weakest state, and that's where somebody 480 00:29:20,775 --> 00:29:24,934 Speaker 11: like this ends up with six guns with no particular reason. 481 00:29:25,175 --> 00:29:28,255 Speaker 11: If we come back to nineteen ninety six after the 482 00:29:28,295 --> 00:29:33,015 Speaker 11: Port Arthur massacre, the intention of the National Firearms Agreement 483 00:29:33,295 --> 00:29:36,815 Speaker 11: and the legislation that flowed in each state after that 484 00:29:36,895 --> 00:29:41,174 Speaker 11: agreement is that every gun you purchased after the first 485 00:29:41,215 --> 00:29:44,694 Speaker 11: one was meant to be more difficult to get a 486 00:29:44,735 --> 00:29:49,055 Speaker 11: permit to acquire because you needed a different and more 487 00:29:49,094 --> 00:29:52,455 Speaker 11: substantial reason for the second gun, and then even more 488 00:29:52,455 --> 00:29:56,135 Speaker 11: different and more substantial for the third. So how somebody 489 00:29:56,215 --> 00:30:01,535 Speaker 11: has six guns on a recreational hunting license is a mystery, 490 00:30:01,575 --> 00:30:03,775 Speaker 11: and it's one that the New South Wales Police are 491 00:30:03,815 --> 00:30:07,895 Speaker 11: going to have to answer for because that laxity has 492 00:30:08,015 --> 00:30:13,175 Speaker 11: led to somebody having a license, lawfully having those guns 493 00:30:13,575 --> 00:30:17,855 Speaker 11: and then committing that mass murder at Bondi last Sunday. 494 00:30:18,175 --> 00:30:21,055 Speaker 2: Yeah, you mentioned that the ninety six Port Arthur massacre, 495 00:30:21,094 --> 00:30:23,495 Speaker 2: and we know that as an immediate result of that, 496 00:30:23,575 --> 00:30:26,695 Speaker 2: gun laws were altered in Australia. But there's a lot 497 00:30:26,695 --> 00:30:30,335 Speaker 2: of criticism that those laws have weakened over time. Can 498 00:30:30,375 --> 00:30:32,535 Speaker 2: you explain to us a little bit about what that 499 00:30:32,535 --> 00:30:34,735 Speaker 2: criticism actually means. 500 00:30:34,695 --> 00:30:37,775 Speaker 11: Before we get to the weakening of the laws. There's 501 00:30:37,815 --> 00:30:41,935 Speaker 11: aspects of the nineteen ninety six round of reforms under 502 00:30:41,935 --> 00:30:46,934 Speaker 11: that agreement, it's still yet to be implemented. So, for example, 503 00:30:47,735 --> 00:30:52,134 Speaker 11: whilst there was an agreement for registration of all guns 504 00:30:52,135 --> 00:30:55,455 Speaker 11: in Australia and that's been delivered upon by each of 505 00:30:55,495 --> 00:30:59,015 Speaker 11: the states and territories, there was also the agreement for 506 00:30:59,375 --> 00:31:03,255 Speaker 11: a national registration scheme or a national database. Well that 507 00:31:03,334 --> 00:31:06,495 Speaker 11: hasn't happened. We've been calling out for that for thirty 508 00:31:06,575 --> 00:31:09,134 Speaker 11: years and it looks like it's going to be delivered 509 00:31:09,175 --> 00:31:13,095 Speaker 11: in twenty twenty eight and it's probably too late anyway, 510 00:31:13,175 --> 00:31:15,255 Speaker 11: and they need to put their foot on the accelerator. 511 00:31:15,655 --> 00:31:20,055 Speaker 11: Under the Port Arthur reforms, the minimum age for a 512 00:31:20,094 --> 00:31:23,415 Speaker 11: gun license was meant to be eighteen, but we've seen 513 00:31:23,495 --> 00:31:26,854 Speaker 11: each state and territory introduce something called a minus permit 514 00:31:26,895 --> 00:31:30,134 Speaker 11: allowing kids as young as ten to have access to 515 00:31:30,215 --> 00:31:33,855 Speaker 11: a gun and be able to shoot it. That's right 516 00:31:33,895 --> 00:31:37,134 Speaker 11: out of step with moreton thinking because now only I 517 00:31:37,135 --> 00:31:41,855 Speaker 11: think last week Australia prohibited people from under sixteen from 518 00:31:41,854 --> 00:31:46,415 Speaker 11: being able to use Facebook or access online content. Yet 519 00:31:46,455 --> 00:31:50,815 Speaker 11: sixteen fourteen twelve ten they can use a gun. So 520 00:31:51,015 --> 00:31:53,215 Speaker 11: that's got to change. That's another thing that has to 521 00:31:53,295 --> 00:31:56,295 Speaker 11: change that has to be implemented. There's some other components 522 00:31:56,295 --> 00:32:00,535 Speaker 11: of the National Firearms Agreement that need to be introduced 523 00:32:00,535 --> 00:32:04,055 Speaker 11: and toughened up in terms of storage conditions, because that 524 00:32:04,175 --> 00:32:07,215 Speaker 11: agreement is almost thirty years old. We want to see 525 00:32:07,295 --> 00:32:12,455 Speaker 11: recreational hunting licenses abolished. We want to see people only 526 00:32:12,495 --> 00:32:16,295 Speaker 11: being able to possess the absolute minimum number of guns, 527 00:32:16,295 --> 00:32:19,134 Speaker 11: and we'd expect the maximum number of guns that people 528 00:32:19,175 --> 00:32:22,654 Speaker 11: can hold is just one gun. And we'd like to 529 00:32:22,695 --> 00:32:25,934 Speaker 11: see the type of gun used at Bondai, which is 530 00:32:25,975 --> 00:32:28,815 Speaker 11: a high powered rifle with a magazine of some five 531 00:32:29,094 --> 00:32:34,215 Speaker 11: rounds or bullets, put into the category relevant to farmers 532 00:32:34,295 --> 00:32:38,015 Speaker 11: or people controlling feral animals. Those kind of high powered 533 00:32:38,094 --> 00:32:41,255 Speaker 11: rifles without military ammunition should not be in the hands 534 00:32:41,255 --> 00:32:45,174 Speaker 11: of civilians. So there's that there's improvements in storage, and 535 00:32:45,215 --> 00:32:49,174 Speaker 11: the most importantly, there's much better assessments on whether people 536 00:32:49,255 --> 00:32:50,935 Speaker 11: have a good reason to have a gun and whether 537 00:32:50,975 --> 00:32:53,295 Speaker 11: they're a fit and proper person to have a gun. 538 00:32:53,375 --> 00:32:56,135 Speaker 11: And that's really important as well that people make out 539 00:32:56,175 --> 00:32:59,134 Speaker 11: their good reason and show that they are safe with 540 00:32:59,215 --> 00:33:02,175 Speaker 11: the gun. Whatever the scrutiny that was applied in New 541 00:33:02,215 --> 00:33:06,694 Speaker 11: South Wales in respect of the shooter from die it 542 00:33:06,735 --> 00:33:09,295 Speaker 11: fell well short of what was necessary Roland. 543 00:33:09,295 --> 00:33:12,295 Speaker 2: Why can't it be set and forget When it comes 544 00:33:12,334 --> 00:33:15,295 Speaker 2: to license renewal, we know typically when you renew your 545 00:33:15,295 --> 00:33:18,535 Speaker 2: car license or your driver's license, you don't really have 546 00:33:18,614 --> 00:33:22,055 Speaker 2: to go in for retesting or re examination. So what 547 00:33:22,175 --> 00:33:23,374 Speaker 2: about the gun licensing? 548 00:33:23,415 --> 00:33:23,695 Speaker 1: Though? 549 00:33:24,614 --> 00:33:31,495 Speaker 11: People's circumstances change, and they can change rapidly, So eligibility 550 00:33:31,535 --> 00:33:36,055 Speaker 11: for a gun license depends on somebody being physically suitable 551 00:33:36,135 --> 00:33:39,654 Speaker 11: to hold, carry and use a gun. That can change. 552 00:33:39,935 --> 00:33:44,535 Speaker 11: People's mental health can change, it can decline, can deteriorate. 553 00:33:45,015 --> 00:33:48,334 Speaker 11: That needs to be assessed again for the same reasons. 554 00:33:48,695 --> 00:33:52,655 Speaker 11: But also there's every reason to be scrutinizing people who 555 00:33:52,695 --> 00:33:56,255 Speaker 11: have guns regularly to make sure that they still have 556 00:33:56,334 --> 00:33:58,535 Speaker 11: a good reason to have a gun license and a 557 00:33:58,575 --> 00:34:01,535 Speaker 11: good reason for the type of gun that they want 558 00:34:01,575 --> 00:34:06,575 Speaker 11: to have. We're looking to achieve the highest possible standards 559 00:34:06,575 --> 00:34:10,535 Speaker 11: of public safety. We shouldn't see gun control as just 560 00:34:10,655 --> 00:34:12,975 Speaker 11: red tape getting in the way of the gun lobby 561 00:34:13,215 --> 00:34:17,215 Speaker 11: and its members having access to weapons. That's what leads 562 00:34:17,255 --> 00:34:20,055 Speaker 11: to mass shootings, it leads to violence in the home. 563 00:34:20,134 --> 00:34:24,215 Speaker 11: It leads to theft of guns. Firearms regulation is really 564 00:34:24,255 --> 00:34:27,295 Speaker 11: important to preserve and protect public health. 565 00:34:28,775 --> 00:34:30,855 Speaker 2: Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with 566 00:34:30,935 --> 00:34:34,775 Speaker 2: us today. The Quiki is produced by me Taylorstrano, Ilario Brophy, 567 00:34:34,895 --> 00:34:41,575 Speaker 2: and Clare Murphy, with audio production by Lou Hill. Muma. 568 00:34:41,614 --> 00:34:44,535 Speaker 4: Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that 569 00:34:44,575 --> 00:34:46,174 Speaker 4: this podcast is recorded on.