WEBVTT - The Three Mums Who Teamed Up To Solve Their Children’s Crimes 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:05.760 It's May twenty eighteen, and Jane parent is desperately trying 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:09.520 to find her daughter. Bailey Despot, has been missing since 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:14.040 late April in their hometown of Bakersfield, California. The twenty 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:16.320 one year old had been living at her boyfriend Matthew 0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:19.119 Queen's house. It's belief the last time she was seen 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:23.920 was outside his property. Jane has been plastering the city 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:26.960 with fliers of her daughter's face, but no one has 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:29.880 seen the beautiful young woman with the piercing green eyes 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:34.680 and long brown hair. Across town, another mother is desperately 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:39.600 searching her son, Micah Holsenbake, went missing one month before Bailey. 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:43.360 As their parents will soon discover, the pair knew each other. 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:45.080 But that's not all. 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:49.080 There's a third victim, and this man has been murdered 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:54.000 right in between Micah and Bailey's disappearances. It's not long 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:57.400 before James's mother joins the other two mums, and together 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:02.320 they start to investigate what happened. They ask to the 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:10.080 Bakersfield Three, I'm Jemma Bath and you're listening to True 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:14.560 Crime Conversations, a podcast exploring the world's most notorious crimes 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:18.280 by speaking to the people who know the most about them. 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:21.680 No one wants to be the mother of a murdered child. 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:25.360 No one wants to be the mother of a missing child. 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:30.160 But in twenty eighteen, Jane parent die Burn and Cheryl 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:33.800 Holsenbak were part of the same club. They were all 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:38.400 grieving and desperately searching for answers in their adult children's cases. 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:43.399 Doing those two things together as a team, they forged 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:47.960 an unbreakable bond, a fierce sisterhood that saw them proudly 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:53.280 claim the rallying cry fight like a mother. Not only 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:56.160 did these women give the local detectives and journalists a 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:58.920 run for their money with their investigative skills as they 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:03.240 pieced together their children's last movements and last interactions, but 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:07.200 they also turned their tragedy into advocacy. Amongst their search 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:11.360 for answers, they raised tens of thousands of dollars for 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:14.920 crime solving programs. They met with local government officials to 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:20.560 advocate for more funding for investigations, better technology, stronger coordination 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:25.640 between agencies, and reforms to public safety systems, all issues 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:29.720 they'd come across while playing detective. Not only that, they 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:32.360 also found the time to lend their support and love 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:36.160 to other Bakersfield families trying to navigate the justice system. 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:43.640 Quite frankly, these women were and are incredible. Their fierce determination, strength, 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:50.200 love for their children, and unconditional friendship is to be admired. Alone. 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:53.120 They admit they might have crumbled into their grief, but 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:58.880 together they were unstoppable. Tragically, Diane Byrne, mother of James, 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:02.080 isn't with us anymore. She died from ovarian cancer in 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:03.120 twenty twenty four. 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:05.799 Reporter Olivia Lavoyce. 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:08.560 Covered the many twists and turns in these three overlapping 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:13.000 cases alongside the mums. Her podcast, The Bakersfield Three tells 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:24.880 their story in detail. Olivia joins us Now, Olivia, thank 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:29.920 you for joining us on true crime conversations. You know Bakersfield, Well, 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:33.200 you've lived there, you've worked there. For those of us 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:36.840 who've never been there, what's it like? What's Bakersfield like 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:37.680 as a place. 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:42.560 So, Bakersfield is a city in California, But I think 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:47.120 a lot of people who've never been when they hear California, 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:55.080 they're envisioning beaches and Hollywood. Bakersfield is not that at all. 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:58.320 Bakersfield is in the middle of the Steeds and it's 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:03.880 quite rural. It has a small town feel, even though 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:11.280 it's not a small town. It's a relatively large city, Bakersfield. 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:15.640 Unfortunately for the people who live there, Bakersfield is plagued 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:20.039 with a lot of issues, a high crime rate being 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:23.480 at the top of the list. And I mean to 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:28.280 be frank, most people in the state of California who 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:32.599 do not live in Bakersfield, they don't consider it a 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:36.919 nice place. It has a bit of a rough reputation. 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:40.320 If you will, I want to start with Bailey Despot. 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:42.919 Can you tell us a bit about who she was 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:44.960 and when she went missing? 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:49.240 Yes, So, Bailey was twenty years old when she went 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:56.800 missing in April twenty eighteen. And Bailey, like most of 0:04:56.839 --> 0:05:02.279 the people involved in this case, was someone who had 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:07.400 a great upbringing. She had so many things going for her, 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:13.320 and unfortunately, there were some tragic circumstances in her life 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:19.320 that ultimately led to her going down what you would call, 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:24.440 you know, the wrong path and ultimately put her in 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:29.480 the crosshairs of some of the players in this case 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:34.119 that you know, aren't the type of people you'd think 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:36.360 someone like Bailey would have been around. 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.200 Tell me about how you first, because Bailey was your 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:41.320 inn into this story, wasn't it? And you were kind 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:44.599 of in a courthouse flicking through documents, and she was 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:46.440 your way into this story. Tell me about how that 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:47.520 kind of unfiled. 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:53.919 So I was doing something I routinely did at the courthouse, 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:58.040 which was go through publicly filed search warrants, and I 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:02.080 came across a search warrant about man who basically was 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:07.080 being investigated for having a gun when he legally was 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:10.400 not supposed to. And there was just one line in 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:13.159 that search warrant that really stood out to me, which 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:18.560 was that this individual was living with a woman at 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:22.640 the time of her disappearance. And so I read that 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:25.240 it was just it was so fascinating to me because 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:31.480 it really wasn't relevant to the guns, it seemed at 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:37.640 first glance, and it was so vague but yet so 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:42.200 huge at the same time. And so that all it 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:44.960 said was he was living with a woman at the 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:48.320 time of her disappearance, something along those lines. So I 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:50.400 was like, Okay, I have to know who this woman is. 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:53.040 I have to know more. And that woman was, of 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:54.400 course Bailey. 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:59.080 Despot, and that man was Matthew Quaine. Tell us a 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:01.600 bit about him because they were boyfriend and girlfriend. 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:02.520 Who was he? 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:11.360 So Matthew Queen also a very interesting individual in terms 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:15.400 of from the outside he looked he looked like he 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:19.880 really had it all together. He had a good job, 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:24.680 good career as an electrician. He owned a nice home 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:32.640 in a nice neighborhood. He was married with children. However, 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:36.760 he also was in a relationship with Bailey, who was 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:42.400 half his age. And what you know his friends and 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:48.760 colleagues weren't seeing was Matthew Queen appeared to have an 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:54.040 interest in guns, and you know, his law enforcement would 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:56.680 go on to say they believed he had an interest 0:07:56.720 --> 0:08:02.000 in building guns high power to salt rifles that are illegal, 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:09.320 and that he was also they believed dabbling in drugs. 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:14.120 Right, Okay, So let's pause on Matthew and Bailey and 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:18.280 bring in Micah here. He was another missing person within 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:20.440 a month of Bailey. Who was he and what were 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:22.480 the circumstances around his disappearance. 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:26.160 So when I first started looking into the case, I'm 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:29.320 looking at it just through the lens of Bailey's disappearance, 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:33.600 and then I quickly find out that she was friends 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:36.960 with Michael holsoen Bak and that he had gone missing 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:42.720 almost exactly one month before she had And Micah was 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:49.320 someone who really had created an amazing life for himself, 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:56.080 a really successful career as a financial advisor, you know, 0:08:56.200 --> 0:09:01.560 a wife, he had a child, and then he he 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:06.480 had surgery that resulted in him being prescribed pain medication 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:11.600 that he ultimately became addicted to and slowly but surely 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:15.320 it completely derailed his life. So at the time of 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:21.080 his disappearance, he was involved in drugs and also hanging 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:24.320 out with some shady characters who you know, I actually 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:27.760 interviewed some of them, some of the shady characters who 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:30.719 would tell me, you know, Micah so did not fit in. 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:33.959 We were like, why is this guy hanging out with us? 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:37.679 Like he clearly is cut from a different cloth, you know, 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:39.920 he doesn't seem like someone who would be hanging out 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:45.360 with drug addicts, you know, in a garage somewhere. Unfortunately, 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:48.079 that is where you know, Micah ended up. And that 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:52.080 is a reoccurring theme that you see in the podcast, 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:57.480 whether it's with the victims as well as suspects, where 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:01.080 these people really all you know, so had it together 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:06.640 and through circumstances, you know, none of them set out 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:12.200 to start you you know, to become drug addicts. It really, 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:15.840 you know, it's what we see so much here in America, 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:19.040 especially with the opioid crisis, you know, with it starts 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:23.640 with the prescription for a legitimate medical reason and you know, 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:25.120 ends in addictions. 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:28.160 And it is a really good reminder that you could 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:32.120 grow up in the most amazing home, but you know, 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:34.600 a few wrong turns and this is where you end up. 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:36.719 And this is like, I think, where the mums come in, 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:39.800 because these mums that we're about to tell you about 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:44.840 are so loving and warm and kind and nurturing to 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:50.360 their kids. How did Marca and Bailey's moms first connect. 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:56.720 Bailey's mom, Jane and Micah's mom, Cheryl first connected because 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:03.200 Cheryl and her husband are essentially doing their own investigation 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:08.400 into trying to find Micah, and they had heard Bailey's 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:12.800 name before. They knew that Bailey was someone that Micah 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:17.839 you know, had hung around with. And one day, when 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:21.600 they're just sort of driving around passing out their own 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:25.400 missing flyers for Micah, they see a missing flyer for 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:30.320 Bailey and they make that connection and think, Okay, this 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:35.400 is really weird. So they then reached out to Bailey's mom, Jane, 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:39.880 and then from there, so you have Bailey's mom and 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:45.920 Micah's mom connected, and then you have a third mom 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:52.920 and a third victim, James Colstead, who knew both. James 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:55.800 knew both Bailey and Micah, but he was really more 0:11:55.880 --> 0:12:02.439 Micah's friend. And James was shot to death about two 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:08.120 weeks after Micah went missing and about two weeks before 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:12.440 Bailey went missing. So this series of events was you 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:16.720 have Micah goes missing in end of March twenty eighteen 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:21.120 mid April, James is shot to death outside of the 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:25.319 home of a local chiropractor, and then two weeks after 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:31.079 that you have Bailey go missing. And so the three 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:36.080 moms realized, okay, our three children knew each other, and 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:41.440 their disappearances and murder happened essentially back to back. You know, 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:45.520 is it possible that this really is a coincidence or 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:47.160 is there a connection here? 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:51.680 You've got those moms in one room together. What was 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:56.000 it like kind of facilitating that and kind of seeing 0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:59.120 them form It's almost like a task for so police 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.960 task full in what they kind of went out to 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.360 do in their investigation. What was it like to be 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.360 there to witness those three moms being together. 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:14.200 It was really really powerful, almost overwhelming in a way 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:21.440 because they just there is such an intensity there. But 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:25.520 at the same time, these three women are I always 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:28.800 say like they are the very definition of a mother. 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:32.800 They're so all three of them are so maternal and 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:36.719 fiercely protective, and you know, I kind of think that 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:40.559 that's what made them so good at this because no 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.720 one's going to you know, no one's going to work 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.920 harder than a mom, you know, when it comes to 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:54.079 protecting their child, right, So it was it was amazing. 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:57.640 But yeah, they you know, I think we had that 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:01.480 first meeting and it was me maybe less than a 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:03.920 week later that you know, they'd show up to my 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:08.520 news station and have like binders of information that the 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:12.440 three of them had compiled together. So yeah, I was 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:14.840 it was intense, but in a good way. 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:17.000 Can you tell us a bit more about that dynamic, 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:19.680 because each one of these women had a very specific 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:22.360 skill set that they kind of brought to the team. 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:24.040 You had one on the phones, you had one on 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:26.520 the kind of organization. Can you tell us a bit 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.240 about who they were in and amongst all of this. 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:36.560 Yes, So Micah's mother, Cheryl, she is like an organization queen. 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:41.760 She was the one who was really good at making 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:47.960 sure all the information was put into spreadsheets and diagrams, 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.200 and you know, she was kind of their computer with 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:57.360 as well. Then you have Diane or Die as everyone 0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:05.400 calls her, James's mother who die Die was the one 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:11.280 who was very good at scheduling meetings with just about 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:16.360 everyone you could think of law enforcement, city council members. 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:22.000 She was very good at sort of being the face 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:26.480 of the three moms and their mission. And then you 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:30.280 have Bailey's mom, Jane, who is the one who wants 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:34.080 to pound the pavement all day and night. She will 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:40.160 literally spend twelve hours straight taping up missing flyers without 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:44.480 you know, without taking a water break, and she doesn't 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:48.560 think twice about it. She also, Jane is also someone 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:53.080 who will not take no for an answer. She's pushy, 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:56.120 but in the best way. So, you know, the three 0:15:56.160 --> 0:16:01.560 of them really they were such an amazing team because 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:06.320 of you know, their unique strengths and whatnot. And they 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:10.200 also would always say that they would take turns supporting 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:13.160 each other like they would take turns. You know, one day, 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:17.800 Jane would say, Okay, I'm really struggling today, I feel 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:20.040 like I can't get out of bed. And you know, 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:23.160 then it would be Cheryl and die who would help 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:26.360 support her and you know, sort of pick up the 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:29.000 slack for her, if you will, and they would all 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:33.840 alternate doing that, you know, taking care of each other. 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:38.960 And so it was amazing because they had this common 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:41.560 goal of finding answers of what happened to their children, 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:46.880 but they also are helping support each other through such 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:54.320 a horrific, complicated process of grieving, but grieving without answers 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:58.200 and you know, just really complex stuff. 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:01.480 One of the lines the one of the mothers say 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:05.480 was if we were by ourselves, we couldn't hold ourselves 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:06.840 together long enough to do this. 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:09.320 So it's I think that was really. 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:12.600 Poignant because it shows that, you know, alone they might 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:15.520 have fallen apart, but together they had this kind of camaraderie, 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:18.760 this friendship, this kind of sole purpose that made them 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:19.600 so powerful. 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:23.119 Yeah, I absolutely believe that. 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:26.399 Where did you come into this? Were you kind of 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:29.520 reporting stories as you as they helped you find them? 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:34.200 Were you steering them in the right direction? Because the 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:37.919 two missing people and James's case, they were kind of 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:40.600 playing out in the news headlines at the time, weren't they. 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:44.359 So, you know, it's funny. I always say that the 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:50.960 moms give me way too much credit for my work 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:54.959 on the case. I also always say they really didn't 0:17:55.040 --> 0:18:00.359 need me, you know, they were they could do any 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:05.240 investigating I could do, they could do ten times more, 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:10.160 and just yeah, they totally didn't need me. That being said, 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:17.080 I was dedicated to covering every development on the case. 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:20.239 And you know, in local news that can be a 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:24.160 challenge when you know you want to keep a case alive, 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:26.639 you want to keep the story out there, but sometimes 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:31.560 they're just there are no developments, and unfortunately, you know, 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:34.560 the powers that be, they're not going to let you 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:38.960 put a story on air if there's nothing new to report, right, 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:43.080 And so, yeah, I got lucky with this case in 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:49.040 the sense that it seemed like there was always another development, 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:53.840 another twist and turn. So I was reporting on it 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:59.800 much more consistently than most of my other cases because 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:03.639 of so I'm trying to remember exactly how long it 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:09.280 was that I was reporting on it in local news. 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:12.040 About a year and a half, I want to say. 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:17.919 And then after I left local news, I stayed in 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:21.760 touch with the moms and continued you know, following the 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:25.480 case and whatnot, and I always knew that I wanted 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:29.320 to tell the story in a way that was in 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:31.399 a way that I felt like would do the story 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:37.920 justice and local news. I love it. I'm so grateful 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:40.880 for my time there. But the stories are like two 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:43.840 minutes long. For this story, I'm like, Okay, I need 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:46.960 a podcast, and I need it to be it's going 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:49.359 to be long. It's not going to be a short one. 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:52.840 I want to kind of help listeners understand. You did 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:55.560 touch on the fact that all three of these payopal 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:58.560 the kids in this scenario were starting to go down 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:02.000 quite doc paths. So we had kind of MICA's mental 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:06.119 health that really deteriorated before he went missing. We had 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:09.520 James that had lived through the mother of his child 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:13.439 dying addiction, and then we have Bailey who survived a 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:16.920 rape and she had a miscarriage an overdose, Like these 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:20.080 are all really serious things that are happening in these 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:24.439 people's lives. I want to focus in on James for 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:27.160 a moment because this is where it starts to get 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:30.800 quite criminal. He was actually cashing fraudulent checks, wasn't he. 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:35.479 Yes, this was a whole area of crime that I 0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:39.840 really didn't understand. And it's funny because when I was 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:43.760 making the podcast, I was interviewing someone who was involved 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:48.919 in this male check fraud with James, and he was 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:50.919 explaining it to me, and he could tell that I 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:53.760 didn't really understand it, and he was sort of like, 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:56.320 aren't you a crime reporter? And I'm like, yes, I am, 0:20:56.400 --> 0:21:01.120 but not this type of crime. This is yeah, this 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:05.520 was not my area of xy. Yes, exactly white collar 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:12.600 and in a way so simple but surprisingly efficient. Apparently 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:16.320 it was just they would just go around robbing people's 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:22.240 mailboxes and would you know, I guess pretty often find 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:28.919 checks in people's mailboxes and using the chiro. So this 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:33.119 is where the chiropractor comes into play. The chiropractor owned 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:37.520 his own business and therefore had a business bank account, 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:42.840 and I guess it was much easier for these fraud 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:47.200 for these checks, the stolen checks to be cashed through 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:54.280 the chiropractor's business account, and so James and others would 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:58.960 bring the stolen checks to the chiropractor have him cash them, 0:21:59.200 --> 0:22:03.679 and then they would had split split that money fifty 0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:07.800 to fifty. And so the night that James was murdered, 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:11.359 you know, the story that I was always told was 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:15.160 he went to the chiropractor's house because there was some 0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:19.399 sort of dispute about one of these checks, though the 0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:26.840 chiropractor ultimately denied that. So yes, so the checks. And 0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:30.919 then the other crime that plays a big role in 0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:36.040 this case was the manufacturing of illegal firearms. 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:39.880 After the break, Olivia tells me about the ghost gun 0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:42.480 ring that two of the Bikersfield three were involved in. 0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:50.159 Basically, they called them ghost guns and they would build these. 0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:55.600 They were just these really intense guns that had no 0:22:56.359 --> 0:23:01.000 tracking numbers on them, so that's what made them. You know, 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:05.040 they were illegal for being high power assault rifles if 0:23:05.080 --> 0:23:11.160 I remember correctally, as well as having no serial numbers, 0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:14.679 which is where the terminology ghost guns comes into place. 0:23:15.240 --> 0:23:18.879 And so these guns were really made for people. They're 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:23.919 made for people who could not buy guns legally, and 0:23:24.040 --> 0:23:27.600 also people who wanted to use guns without having to 0:23:27.640 --> 0:23:30.119 worry about, you know, there being a serial number that 0:23:30.200 --> 0:23:34.399 law enforcement could trace back to. You know, oh, Bob 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:37.920 Smith bought this gun, you know, on this date at 0:23:37.920 --> 0:23:38.960 this store type of thing. 0:23:39.119 --> 0:23:41.919 So how did Maca and Bailey even get kind of 0:23:42.040 --> 0:23:44.439 wrapped up in that? Because we've got James with the 0:23:44.440 --> 0:23:46.800 Foger Chicks, and then it's Macro and Bailey that are 0:23:46.840 --> 0:23:48.480 involved in this kind of gun operation. 0:23:48.840 --> 0:23:52.240 With James as well as Mica and Bailey, it seems 0:23:52.240 --> 0:23:58.760 like it really all boils down to addiction, and you know, 0:23:58.840 --> 0:24:02.439 they began doing these things in order to get money 0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:09.160 for drugs. Bailey's involvement with the ghost guns, as far 0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:12.399 as I could tell, especially initially, was just that, you know, 0:24:12.520 --> 0:24:16.879 she was dating and living with Matthew Queen, who, you know, 0:24:16.960 --> 0:24:21.480 despite having a career, a successful career as an electrician. 0:24:22.640 --> 0:24:26.960 You know, police said that he had this hobby, if 0:24:27.000 --> 0:24:32.359 you will, of building these high powered assault rifles, the 0:24:32.400 --> 0:24:37.440 ghost guns, and yeah, you know, I never I never 0:24:37.480 --> 0:24:41.800 got as much clarity on this aspect of it as 0:24:41.840 --> 0:24:44.359 I would have liked, because, you know, some of the 0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:47.439 people that I interviewed that were building these guns like 0:24:47.480 --> 0:24:51.439 this was like their this was their job, so to speak, 0:24:51.480 --> 0:24:55.960 This was how they were making a living. Matt Queen 0:24:56.040 --> 0:24:59.520 had an actual real job. He certainly didn't need to 0:24:59.520 --> 0:25:03.880 be involved often illegal firearms in order to pay his mortgage. 0:25:04.840 --> 0:25:09.080 So I don't know, it's just kind of an interesting, 0:25:09.359 --> 0:25:10.399 odd part of the case. 0:25:11.200 --> 0:25:13.679 I'm going to bring us now to kind of a 0:25:13.720 --> 0:25:16.919 big breakthrough in the case, which was two body parts 0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:20.280 being found kind of two months apart, an arm and 0:25:20.320 --> 0:25:23.840 a leg in two different waterways in Bakersfield. When that 0:25:23.920 --> 0:25:27.359 news started coming through, what were the mum's reactions because 0:25:27.359 --> 0:25:30.880 they've obviously spent months on this investigation searching and then 0:25:30.920 --> 0:25:32.600 suddenly body parts turn up. 0:25:32.960 --> 0:25:39.919 It was so difficult for the moms when first the 0:25:40.080 --> 0:25:43.760 leg was found at a popular lake, and then about 0:25:43.760 --> 0:25:48.480 a month later a group of boys found a bag 0:25:49.240 --> 0:25:53.919 in the river, and inside that bag they found it 0:25:54.160 --> 0:25:57.680 human arm. It was so difficult for the moms because 0:25:59.119 --> 0:26:02.800 of course they're first thought was do either of these 0:26:02.800 --> 0:26:06.520 body parts belong to either of our missing children Mica 0:26:06.600 --> 0:26:10.880 and Bailey. But then there's also, you know, hope that 0:26:11.320 --> 0:26:15.879 it was so complicated. They hoped that obviously the body 0:26:15.920 --> 0:26:18.280 parts did not belong to their children, but at the 0:26:18.320 --> 0:26:23.000 same time they were like, well, if they do, then 0:26:23.800 --> 0:26:26.600 you know, at least there's an answer, right I think. 0:26:26.800 --> 0:26:33.760 You know, missing persons cases are so incredibly challenging for 0:26:33.880 --> 0:26:39.200 loved ones when they really feel in their core that 0:26:40.040 --> 0:26:42.520 their loved one is no longer here on this earth. 0:26:43.240 --> 0:26:47.879 But until you have proof of that it's impossible to 0:26:48.000 --> 0:26:51.760 not have a little hope and yeah, so it was 0:26:51.880 --> 0:26:57.639 for me as a reporter. It was very heavy to 0:26:57.840 --> 0:27:02.600 watch them sort of navigate this push and pull, push 0:27:02.640 --> 0:27:05.680 and pull of Okay, I want to believe my child's 0:27:05.680 --> 0:27:09.159 still alive, but at the same time, I really I 0:27:09.240 --> 0:27:12.960 sort of know that they're not. So do I want 0:27:13.080 --> 0:27:16.240 to believe that a severed arm belongs to my child? No, 0:27:16.560 --> 0:27:20.280 But at the same time, if it is my child, 0:27:20.400 --> 0:27:23.760 then you know, at least there's something to go off of. 0:27:25.280 --> 0:27:32.240 And then it got very sad and very surprising once 0:27:33.400 --> 0:27:36.880 I learned, along with the mothers that the DNA testing 0:27:36.960 --> 0:27:40.920 was going to take so long. I believe they were 0:27:40.960 --> 0:27:47.639 initially told it would be up to a year and yes, 0:27:47.880 --> 0:27:50.760 and so that was that was horrible. The moms were like, 0:27:51.119 --> 0:27:55.240 this is the worst feeling in the world, wondering is 0:27:56.520 --> 0:28:00.680 a body part a piece of my child? And now 0:28:00.920 --> 0:28:03.840 you're telling me we might have to wait a year 0:28:04.600 --> 0:28:09.000 to find out. I mean, it was unbelievable. And you know, 0:28:09.160 --> 0:28:13.520 I'm I was a local crime reporter. It was my 0:28:13.720 --> 0:28:16.480 job to know things like that. I had no clue. 0:28:16.920 --> 0:28:18.680 I had no clue and I don't think I ever 0:28:18.800 --> 0:28:22.239 would have if it wasn't for the moms. I mean, 0:28:22.280 --> 0:28:29.120 there were quite a few severe issues within the Bakersfield, 0:28:29.160 --> 0:28:33.320 the Kerrent County, and California justice system that I was 0:28:33.359 --> 0:28:39.240 completely unaware of until the moms brought the issues to 0:28:39.280 --> 0:28:39.920 the forefront. 0:28:40.280 --> 0:28:44.880 Well I didn't take that, ye along White in this stride. 0:28:45.200 --> 0:28:48.120 They changed it. They went and talked to law officials, 0:28:48.160 --> 0:28:51.480 they moved the process along. Tell us a bit about that, 0:28:51.560 --> 0:28:53.400 because that was pretty unprecedented. 0:28:53.880 --> 0:28:58.120 Was you know, I've never seen anything like it. It 0:28:58.240 --> 0:29:02.960 was amazing. They simply put they were not going to 0:29:03.040 --> 0:29:05.320 take the you know, you might have to wait a 0:29:05.400 --> 0:29:09.880 year answer. They weren't gonna they weren't going to accept that. 0:29:09.960 --> 0:29:13.040 They just felt like, there's just there has to be 0:29:13.360 --> 0:29:18.240 another way, and there was there was technology out there 0:29:18.360 --> 0:29:23.280 that could get them result could get them answers very quickly, 0:29:24.640 --> 0:29:27.280 and so, you know, from their perspective, it just it 0:29:27.360 --> 0:29:30.240 simply did not make sense for the technology to not 0:29:30.320 --> 0:29:34.000 be utilized. And then you know, they're told, well, it 0:29:34.040 --> 0:29:36.800 can't be utilized because we don't have the funding, to 0:29:36.960 --> 0:29:40.040 which the moms said, okay, great, we'll get the funding. 0:29:40.440 --> 0:29:44.000 You know, they weren't going to take any of these answers. 0:29:44.200 --> 0:29:46.320 They were like, no, it's not you know, there's no 0:29:46.600 --> 0:29:50.120 challenge that the three of us can't overcome. And so 0:29:50.640 --> 0:29:54.560 not only did they raise all the funding that was 0:29:54.640 --> 0:29:59.240 needed for their specific cases, but they went on to 0:29:59.360 --> 0:30:03.920 do it for or just for the criminal justice system 0:30:03.960 --> 0:30:07.680 in Bakersfield as a whole. Right. They started raising money 0:30:07.760 --> 0:30:13.920 for all unsolved cases. So that was really really cool 0:30:14.160 --> 0:30:17.720 to witness that, And I think it's so rare that 0:30:18.960 --> 0:30:22.400 as a crime reporter you get to see people do 0:30:22.520 --> 0:30:26.360 something good, make something good out of what is, you know, 0:30:27.760 --> 0:30:32.719 someone's worst nightmare. So yeah, I'm very inspiring. 0:30:32.720 --> 0:30:34.600 And their worst nightmare that were leaving it and they 0:30:34.600 --> 0:30:36.840 managed to do that, which I think is even more inspiring. 0:30:37.760 --> 0:30:40.640 So these body parts are found around media, and then 0:30:40.720 --> 0:30:44.480 five days before Christmas, they get the news of the DNA. 0:30:44.600 --> 0:30:47.080 Do you remember finding out about that? Did they call you? 0:30:47.120 --> 0:30:48.080 How did you find out? 0:30:48.280 --> 0:30:55.320 Yes? They called me. They were together and it was 0:30:57.040 --> 0:31:03.240 absolutely horrific. The news that they were given was that 0:31:03.320 --> 0:31:07.719 the leg did not match to Mica or Bailey, but 0:31:07.760 --> 0:31:10.880 that the severed arm that was in the bag in 0:31:10.920 --> 0:31:15.760 the river did match to Micah. It was so devastating. 0:31:15.840 --> 0:31:17.800 It was so shocking. 0:31:19.080 --> 0:31:19.760 I was not. 0:31:21.360 --> 0:31:24.760 I don't know. I just remember really not expecting it, 0:31:27.000 --> 0:31:31.080 and I'll never forget, you know, the emotion. And I 0:31:31.080 --> 0:31:34.040 don't really think that Micah's mom was able to actually 0:31:34.080 --> 0:31:39.360 say anything on that call. You know, it was such 0:31:39.760 --> 0:31:46.280 raw grief that I mean, this was before I had 0:31:46.360 --> 0:31:48.560 children myself. If I had children, I don't know if 0:31:48.600 --> 0:31:50.640 I could have done this. I don't know if I 0:31:50.640 --> 0:31:52.960 could have been you know, I would have been sobbing 0:31:53.040 --> 0:31:56.840 right there with her. It is, so it is actually 0:31:56.960 --> 0:32:00.920 harder for me now, all these years later, at being 0:32:00.960 --> 0:32:03.560 a mother myself, to think back to these moments than 0:32:03.600 --> 0:32:08.320 it was when I was actually living them. So it 0:32:08.360 --> 0:32:12.720 was really intense because you mentioned Sevid, So it was 0:32:12.800 --> 0:32:16.360 very obvious to MICA's mum that he had suffered violence 0:32:17.040 --> 0:32:20.120 like that wasn't there because of it had just fallen 0:32:20.160 --> 0:32:23.239 off like it was a very viot and so, you know, 0:32:23.320 --> 0:32:27.040 it was one thing to have confirmation that okay, Micah 0:32:27.280 --> 0:32:32.480 was in fact murdered, but for the confirmation, I mean, 0:32:32.480 --> 0:32:34.920 it wasn't just confirmation of that, it was confirmation that 0:32:35.000 --> 0:32:38.920 he was murdered. And then his body was dismembered, and 0:32:39.440 --> 0:32:44.680 cases of dismemberment are pretty rare, uh, and it was 0:32:44.760 --> 0:32:49.280 also quite jarring to think. Okay, so these teenage boys 0:32:49.360 --> 0:32:54.120 just happened to, you know, feel feel something brush up 0:32:54.120 --> 0:32:56.840 against one of their legs, decided to pull it up, 0:32:57.200 --> 0:32:59.680 saw it was a bag, decided to take it to 0:32:59.760 --> 0:33:02.720 shore and open it. I mean, so many other people 0:33:02.760 --> 0:33:04.480 they would have felt saying brush up against their leg 0:33:04.480 --> 0:33:07.120 and just walk away right like it was. So it 0:33:07.160 --> 0:33:13.680 was really incredible that they opened the bag, you know whatsoever. 0:33:14.480 --> 0:33:17.440 But then we're also thinking, okay, well where's the rest 0:33:17.480 --> 0:33:21.000 of him? How many? How many more bags are there 0:33:21.200 --> 0:33:24.160 in that river? And you know, it was it was crazy. 0:33:24.200 --> 0:33:28.120 It was crazy, and a lot of people then started 0:33:28.360 --> 0:33:34.200 talking about organized crime because the idea was, you know, 0:33:34.280 --> 0:33:38.880 the dismemberment was so brutal. A lot of people felt 0:33:38.920 --> 0:33:42.240 like that that was an indicator that, you know, this 0:33:42.320 --> 0:33:46.520 must be the work of you know, a drug cartel 0:33:47.080 --> 0:33:49.280 or some violent gang. 0:33:50.040 --> 0:33:52.600 Well, this is why the case got quite overwhelming, wasn't it, 0:33:52.640 --> 0:33:54.360 Because it was like, was it the mafia? Was it 0:33:54.520 --> 0:33:58.000 the bikys? Was it you know other criminals in town? 0:33:58.880 --> 0:34:00.760 I want to skip us full because I know that 0:34:00.880 --> 0:34:03.640 took up a lot of kind of that over Christmas 0:34:03.680 --> 0:34:07.320 and then early twenty nineteen, but then police kind of announced, 0:34:07.960 --> 0:34:09.960 which wasn't huge news to the moms, but it was 0:34:10.400 --> 0:34:14.040 confirmation at least that Micah and Bailey's disappearances were linked. 0:34:14.760 --> 0:34:18.640 But they also stated that James's wasn't. So that wasn't 0:34:18.760 --> 0:34:20.840 news to you, was it? But I guess it was 0:34:20.880 --> 0:34:22.359 confirmation from authorities. 0:34:22.760 --> 0:34:28.000 Yes. To me, the announcement was significant because typically the 0:34:28.040 --> 0:34:33.960 Bakersfield Police Department, they typically just didn't comment on cases 0:34:34.600 --> 0:34:39.640 that were that were open, right, So it was sort 0:34:39.680 --> 0:34:43.400 of like, okay, wait, And of course, at that point, 0:34:43.480 --> 0:34:47.440 it had been quite some time that myself and the 0:34:47.480 --> 0:34:51.960 moms had been saying to this police department, are the 0:34:51.960 --> 0:34:55.880 cases connected? You know, what can you tell us about that? 0:34:56.120 --> 0:35:02.320 And they wouldn't comment on it. But then suddenly, unprompted, 0:35:03.040 --> 0:35:07.719 they made this announcement. So it was just sort of unusual. 0:35:08.080 --> 0:35:11.279 I guess you could say I was very curious as 0:35:11.280 --> 0:35:15.600 to why they were choosing to do it. Yeah, it 0:35:15.640 --> 0:35:16.200 was interesting. 0:35:16.920 --> 0:35:22.360 Twenty nineteen is when you left Bakersfield and moved to 0:35:22.480 --> 0:35:24.000 another job in another city. 0:35:24.560 --> 0:35:25.480 What was that like for you? 0:35:25.600 --> 0:35:28.520 Leaving this case so unfinished and leaving the moms that 0:35:28.560 --> 0:35:31.719 you'd formed such a relationship with. I. 0:35:31.719 --> 0:35:37.480 I mean, it was it was the worst. I yeah, 0:35:37.840 --> 0:35:42.440 I really, I was so involved for so long at 0:35:42.440 --> 0:35:46.919 that point it you know, it's it was hard for. 0:35:46.840 --> 0:35:48.200 Me to leave. 0:35:50.239 --> 0:35:53.280 A lot of cases that were unsolved that I really 0:35:53.320 --> 0:35:57.680 hoped to be there working on the case when they 0:35:57.719 --> 0:36:00.759 would get solved. But the Baker's feel three, you know, 0:36:01.080 --> 0:36:05.160 given my connection to the three moms, that was definitely 0:36:05.680 --> 0:36:09.880 the hardest. And you know, I wanted to I wanted 0:36:09.880 --> 0:36:12.480 the moms to still be able to lean on me, 0:36:12.800 --> 0:36:18.120 despite me not being there physically anymore, and despite me 0:36:18.200 --> 0:36:22.400 not being a local reporter in Bakersfield. I still felt like, okay, 0:36:22.520 --> 0:36:25.880 like I can that doesn't mean that I still can't 0:36:25.880 --> 0:36:30.919 be connected to the case and whatnot. So but yeah, 0:36:31.000 --> 0:36:31.640 it was tough. 0:36:33.600 --> 0:36:36.960 Up next, we revealed the revelation about Mike's murder that 0:36:37.120 --> 0:36:42.239 no one saw coming. I want to bring us now 0:36:42.280 --> 0:36:45.040 to the big twist in this case, which is, from 0:36:45.080 --> 0:36:49.120 your words what you describe it as. It's May twenty twenty, 0:36:49.320 --> 0:36:53.600 some peak COVID and there's an arrest and some charges late. 0:36:53.760 --> 0:36:56.600 Can you tell us about that, because that was really 0:36:56.680 --> 0:36:58.600 shocking news to basically everyone. 0:36:59.040 --> 0:37:04.800 Yes, it was May twenty twenty when charges were filed 0:37:04.960 --> 0:37:11.000 in Micah's murder, and there were two people charged. One 0:37:11.040 --> 0:37:16.200 of them was Matt Queen, which was very surprising in 0:37:16.239 --> 0:37:20.560 the sense that you know, up until this point, the 0:37:20.640 --> 0:37:26.920 public perception was that Matt Queen was likely a suspect 0:37:27.120 --> 0:37:32.320 in Bailey's disappearance because you know, he was her boyfriend, 0:37:32.600 --> 0:37:36.399 so people were not expect people thought, Okay, if Matt 0:37:36.480 --> 0:37:39.040 Queen gets charged with anything, it's going to be in 0:37:39.080 --> 0:37:43.920 relation to Bailey's disappearance, not MICA's. So that was surprising 0:37:44.040 --> 0:37:48.520 in itself. The second person that was charged with Micah's murder, 0:37:48.640 --> 0:37:53.120 this was I mean, there were truly no words that 0:37:53.160 --> 0:37:55.320 I've ever been able to come up with to really 0:37:55.400 --> 0:38:01.080 adequately explain how utterly shocking and earth shattering this was. 0:38:01.880 --> 0:38:04.080 Because the second person that was charged with Mike's murder 0:38:04.280 --> 0:38:09.839 was Bailey. And you know, at this point, it had 0:38:09.880 --> 0:38:13.959 been about two years since this had been a very 0:38:15.120 --> 0:38:20.319 public news story, you know, having these three friends that 0:38:21.520 --> 0:38:24.040 you know went missing or were murdered back to back, 0:38:24.760 --> 0:38:29.520 and as well as their three mothers who banded together 0:38:30.160 --> 0:38:33.680 to find answers. But then we're also doing so much 0:38:33.719 --> 0:38:37.080 good in the community. I also think what made it 0:38:37.160 --> 0:38:41.359 even more shocking was that of the three, Bailey was 0:38:43.200 --> 0:38:48.799 the most sympathetic victim because she was a young, beautiful woman, right, 0:38:48.880 --> 0:38:52.960 so it was easy for people to look at her. 0:38:53.120 --> 0:38:56.520 And I don't know, I think that's just the only 0:38:56.600 --> 0:38:58.160 way I can put it, is that she just was 0:38:58.200 --> 0:39:03.520 the most sympathetic. And yet now we're being told she 0:39:03.880 --> 0:39:08.520 was she was not only are we being told that, okay, 0:39:08.560 --> 0:39:13.520 she was a murderer, we're being told that she murdered Micah, 0:39:13.680 --> 0:39:18.000 her friend, and you know, this other victim, and we 0:39:18.040 --> 0:39:21.000 thought they were victims together. It just I mean, even 0:39:21.120 --> 0:39:23.520 now I feel like I struggled to talk about it 0:39:23.560 --> 0:39:27.720 in a way that really is clear and concise, because 0:39:27.800 --> 0:39:35.719 it's still so shocking and baffling. And furthermore, another big 0:39:35.800 --> 0:39:38.760 question everyone had the day that the charges were announced 0:39:38.880 --> 0:39:43.000 was wait a second, do you guys, is Bailey still 0:39:43.040 --> 0:39:46.480 missing or do you guys think you know, is she 0:39:46.520 --> 0:39:49.480 in a jail cell somewhere? And they said, no, she's 0:39:49.520 --> 0:39:53.200 still missing. Okay, So up until this point, we've all 0:39:53.200 --> 0:39:57.480 believed her disappearance was suspicious and that she most likely 0:39:58.560 --> 0:40:01.880 had been murdered herself. Is that not the belief anymore? 0:40:01.880 --> 0:40:04.120 Do you guys think now she's just like on the 0:40:04.239 --> 0:40:09.200 run And we were told no, you know, we don't 0:40:09.840 --> 0:40:12.799 the answers that day, I felt like we're not as 0:40:12.920 --> 0:40:17.440 straightforward as personally I would have liked. But you know, ultimately, no, 0:40:17.560 --> 0:40:20.960 it doesn't. I do not believe that law enforcement believes 0:40:21.600 --> 0:40:24.280 that she is on the run. I think the belief 0:40:24.400 --> 0:40:29.360 is that she was also a victim, but that prior 0:40:29.760 --> 0:40:32.520 to becoming a victim herself, that she was involved in 0:40:32.560 --> 0:40:36.640 Mike's murder. So, you know, I'm just going on a 0:40:37.719 --> 0:40:40.600 rant about this because you could tell it is still 0:40:41.600 --> 0:40:46.400 it's still emotionally affects me, and I'm the reporter. You know, 0:40:46.440 --> 0:40:47.880 it's I sort of feel like I don't really have 0:40:47.920 --> 0:40:51.719 a right to be emotionally affected by it, but I was, 0:40:51.840 --> 0:40:57.160 and I still am because I knew how much this 0:40:57.360 --> 0:41:01.880 was going to turn the lives upside down of the 0:41:01.960 --> 0:41:03.600 three moms. 0:41:04.080 --> 0:41:06.200 I can say, I can see how you reacted like 0:41:06.239 --> 0:41:09.759 that you were emotionally invested in these moms. How did 0:41:09.880 --> 0:41:13.040 maca and and Bailey's moms? 0:41:13.400 --> 0:41:15.560 Did it rock their relationship with Ayibu to. 0:41:15.680 --> 0:41:19.000 Kind of look past this and remain friends. 0:41:19.000 --> 0:41:26.800 So ultimately, yes, they were able to weather the storm together, 0:41:27.040 --> 0:41:32.040 which you know is unbelievable, but it was not, you know, 0:41:32.120 --> 0:41:38.560 it was it was complicated, and I think to some 0:41:38.640 --> 0:41:43.960 extent it's it will always be complicated. I think that 0:41:44.280 --> 0:41:52.279 James's mom, Die was the most amazing person to be 0:41:52.440 --> 0:41:56.759 sort of the middleman between Jane and Cheryl for a 0:41:56.800 --> 0:42:02.439 little while. You know, Cheryl and Jane have both said 0:42:02.480 --> 0:42:04.480 they think in a way it helped that it was 0:42:04.760 --> 0:42:07.719 right in the middle of COVID, back when everyone was 0:42:07.840 --> 0:42:13.480 very isolated, so it you know, they they did keep 0:42:13.520 --> 0:42:15.560 their distance from each other for a little while, but 0:42:15.600 --> 0:42:20.759 it made it feel less less so because of you know, 0:42:20.840 --> 0:42:22.720 this earth shattering news. 0:42:24.200 --> 0:42:24.879 But yeah, it was. 0:42:25.320 --> 0:42:30.280 It was tough. And in the podcast, you know, when 0:42:31.480 --> 0:42:34.640 they talk about it, I think they do a really 0:42:34.760 --> 0:42:39.359 great job of explaining how they navigated navigated it as 0:42:39.440 --> 0:42:43.600 much as one can. But I think you can also 0:42:44.080 --> 0:42:46.920 hear in their answers that, yeah, this is not this 0:42:47.000 --> 0:42:49.480 is not a normal thing to navigate. This is not 0:42:49.520 --> 0:42:52.239 a normal thing for any human being to process like, 0:42:52.280 --> 0:42:54.400 this is an unbelievable situation. 0:42:55.080 --> 0:42:58.080 Can you tell us exactly what the police theory is 0:42:58.600 --> 0:43:01.799 on what happened, Like behind these motor charges, we've got 0:43:01.840 --> 0:43:04.080 matt and we've got Bailey, changed what do the police 0:43:04.080 --> 0:43:04.720 think happened? 0:43:05.200 --> 0:43:11.360 So the case largely boiled down to the testimony from 0:43:11.480 --> 0:43:15.160 someone you learn all about in the podcast and how 0:43:15.200 --> 0:43:20.880 he fits into things. But simply put, police believe that 0:43:21.239 --> 0:43:26.240 Micah was murdered at his home, and they were eventually 0:43:26.640 --> 0:43:32.040 able to get him to talk, and he said that 0:43:32.840 --> 0:43:36.200 the day that Micah went missing, the day we're all 0:43:36.239 --> 0:43:41.920 activity stopped, that is the day that law enforcement believes 0:43:43.280 --> 0:43:49.319 that matt Queen and Bailey essentially lured Micah to this 0:43:49.960 --> 0:43:55.319 friend's house, and police believed that they tortured him and 0:43:55.520 --> 0:44:03.560 ultimately murdered him and dismembered his body. And law enforcement's theory, 0:44:04.120 --> 0:44:05.640 you know, this was the part of the case that 0:44:05.719 --> 0:44:09.719 I always had an issue with and sort of still do. 0:44:11.880 --> 0:44:17.880 Prosecutors don't have to prove a motive when proving a 0:44:18.040 --> 0:44:21.440 murder case, but of course every jury wants to, you know, 0:44:21.560 --> 0:44:23.520 wants to know what the motive was. I mean, everyone 0:44:23.560 --> 0:44:25.279 wants to know what the motive was. And the best 0:44:25.280 --> 0:44:28.879 they could ever come up with was that they believed 0:44:29.480 --> 0:44:33.600 that Matthew Queen had a gun stolen from his house 0:44:34.040 --> 0:44:37.120 during a New Year's party that Micah was at, and 0:44:37.160 --> 0:44:41.040 that they thought that Micah had stolen it, so they 0:44:41.800 --> 0:44:44.960 were questioning him about it, and then ultimately it resulted 0:44:44.960 --> 0:44:47.920 in his murder. I don't I always felt that that 0:44:49.120 --> 0:44:54.400 theory was quite flawed. But regardless, you know, as the 0:44:54.440 --> 0:44:58.600 detectives would say, as the prosecutor would say, that part is, 0:44:58.760 --> 0:45:01.360 that piece of it is far less important. What we 0:45:01.400 --> 0:45:04.160 really care about is the you know, the actual evidence 0:45:04.280 --> 0:45:09.320 in terms of Micah being murdered, and so their friends 0:45:09.880 --> 0:45:17.440 former friends testimony was really the main part of the evidence. 0:45:17.880 --> 0:45:22.400 But from there then law enforcement was able to see, Okay, Matthew, 0:45:22.480 --> 0:45:26.480 Queen and Bailey, both of their phones were at this 0:45:26.640 --> 0:45:30.759 individual's home at the exact time he told us that 0:45:30.800 --> 0:45:35.719 they came over with Micah and this and that, so 0:45:35.800 --> 0:45:40.440 that supported that story. And then another piece of evidence 0:45:40.520 --> 0:45:46.600 that it's quite interesting was after Bailey went missing, matt 0:45:46.680 --> 0:45:50.400 Queen dropped off some of her belongings at one of 0:45:50.400 --> 0:45:52.759 her friends homes. Like it was, it was kind of 0:45:52.800 --> 0:45:57.359 a weird thing, almost like a if you broke up 0:45:57.360 --> 0:45:59.760 with someone and you were pissed at them, so you 0:45:59.760 --> 0:46:03.760 you know, dump a bag of their clothes outside or something. 0:46:03.800 --> 0:46:06.040 You know, he just he dumped this bag of her 0:46:06.160 --> 0:46:10.600 things on her friend's doorstep. And you know, no one 0:46:10.640 --> 0:46:15.719 really knows why, but whatever. Inside this bag of her 0:46:15.760 --> 0:46:19.680 belongings was a purse, one of Bailey's purses, and there 0:46:19.719 --> 0:46:23.239 was a piece of rope tied on it, and that 0:46:23.440 --> 0:46:29.200 rope matched the rope that was also tied on the 0:46:29.320 --> 0:46:33.360 Duffel bag that Micah's arm was inside. And then that 0:46:33.440 --> 0:46:38.400 same rope was also found tied to Matt Queen's headboard, 0:46:38.520 --> 0:46:43.720 I believe. So that was an interesting. 0:46:43.480 --> 0:46:46.360 And they also had blood, didn't they They had Maca's blood. 0:46:46.880 --> 0:46:50.840 Yes, there was a small There was a very small 0:46:51.239 --> 0:46:54.560 amount of his blood found at the home of the 0:46:54.640 --> 0:46:58.439 former friend who ended up testifying, so he basically said 0:46:58.520 --> 0:47:03.600 he told the cops. After a lot of pushing from 0:47:03.640 --> 0:47:06.279 law enforcement, he eventually broke down and said, Okay, yes, 0:47:06.960 --> 0:47:09.560 I know what happened to Micah. It was at my house, 0:47:10.200 --> 0:47:14.640 in my garage, and he told them, go, you know, 0:47:14.760 --> 0:47:17.439 look in this part of the garage. You'll see a 0:47:17.480 --> 0:47:20.920 grease stain. It looks like a grease stain. Test it, 0:47:21.320 --> 0:47:23.880 and they did, and it matched to MICA's blood, but 0:47:23.920 --> 0:47:26.959 it was very small amount, which again is interesting given 0:47:27.040 --> 0:47:33.520 that Micah was supposedly dismembered in that garage, so one 0:47:33.600 --> 0:47:37.120 would expect that they would have found more. 0:47:37.920 --> 0:47:39.920 So, right, I hadn't even thought of that fact. Just 0:47:39.960 --> 0:47:42.080 one spot when you're dismembering a body, that is a 0:47:42.160 --> 0:47:45.680 lot of blood, So perhaps there were more locations involved. 0:47:46.239 --> 0:47:48.400 But you went to the trial of Matthew Queen in 0:47:48.440 --> 0:47:52.040 twenty twenty two, so you kind of re entered Bakersfield 0:47:52.080 --> 0:47:53.120 this story. 0:47:52.800 --> 0:47:54.000 The mom's lives. 0:47:54.320 --> 0:47:56.520 What was that like for you because your life was 0:47:56.520 --> 0:47:58.360 starting to move on and then you kind of dived 0:47:58.400 --> 0:47:59.040 straight back in. 0:47:59.640 --> 0:48:04.040 Yeah, it was. That's an interesting question. You know, in 0:48:04.080 --> 0:48:07.080 some ways it felt like I was coming back home, 0:48:08.320 --> 0:48:10.520 you know, to where I start, you know, Bakersfields, where 0:48:10.520 --> 0:48:15.560 I started my career crime reporting and whatnot. But yeah, 0:48:15.680 --> 0:48:20.400 it was very interesting to sort of re enter the picture. 0:48:20.520 --> 0:48:25.480 But I'm so glad that I did because I just 0:48:25.520 --> 0:48:29.200 think there's something really meaningful as a journalist to get 0:48:29.200 --> 0:48:34.480 to see a case progress when you know you've been 0:48:34.480 --> 0:48:38.040 on it from the very beginning. It's not it's not 0:48:38.160 --> 0:48:41.839 a given right, It's not something you get often when 0:48:41.880 --> 0:48:43.759 you start following a case that you're going to get 0:48:43.760 --> 0:48:48.120 to be there from day one up until a trial. Actually, 0:48:48.120 --> 0:48:53.359 for me, it's quite rare that I've gotten to experience that. So, yeah, 0:48:53.400 --> 0:48:55.040 it was, and it was kind of surreal in a 0:48:55.040 --> 0:48:59.480 way to think, Wow, you know, would we be here 0:48:59.560 --> 0:49:02.720 right now if it weren't for everything the moms did? 0:49:03.480 --> 0:49:09.800 And I it's impossible to say, but my gut tells 0:49:09.840 --> 0:49:13.440 me that no, we would not have ever gotten to 0:49:13.960 --> 0:49:17.360 a trial if it weren't for what the moms did. 0:49:17.800 --> 0:49:19.920 A part of the trial I want to ask you 0:49:20.040 --> 0:49:23.000 about because obviously Bailey's still missing at this point, she 0:49:23.040 --> 0:49:26.640 doesn't get any say in any of these proceedings. And 0:49:26.680 --> 0:49:29.200 then you've got matt who actually gave evidence at his 0:49:29.239 --> 0:49:32.880 own trial and basically threw her under the bus and 0:49:32.920 --> 0:49:36.960 said she was the main perpetrad ar. She sorry, listeners 0:49:37.040 --> 0:49:40.160 cut off Micah's head. She was the you know, the 0:49:40.160 --> 0:49:45.320 main instigator. How did that go down? Both with prosecutor moms? 0:49:45.440 --> 0:49:47.359 You hearing all of that play out? 0:49:47.800 --> 0:49:50.520 So I know, I keep using the word shocking. I 0:49:50.600 --> 0:49:53.279 need to find a new word, but you know, to 0:49:53.320 --> 0:50:00.600 put it in perspective. Matthew Queen for or years I 0:50:00.640 --> 0:50:05.359 believe it was at that point had denied any involvement 0:50:05.600 --> 0:50:10.680 whatsoever in any violent crime. He had always said, you know, 0:50:10.719 --> 0:50:14.279 he had no idea what happened to Micah, was completely 0:50:14.280 --> 0:50:17.880 innocent of all the allegations. And then he gets on 0:50:17.920 --> 0:50:20.319 the witness stand, which also that was surprising just to 0:50:20.320 --> 0:50:22.799 know he was going to testify, because it's pretty rare 0:50:22.880 --> 0:50:27.760 to see a defendant testify on their own behalf, particularly 0:50:27.960 --> 0:50:33.200 in a murder case, And so for him to get 0:50:33.280 --> 0:50:38.400 up there on the stand, and then all the sudden, 0:50:38.960 --> 0:50:41.400 we all realize in the court room, oh my gosh, 0:50:41.440 --> 0:50:43.600 he's telling he's about to tell a story of what 0:50:43.640 --> 0:50:46.680 happened that day. He's about to he's about to admit 0:50:46.719 --> 0:50:49.840 to this, like this is this is what is happening 0:50:49.920 --> 0:50:50.319 right now. 0:50:51.080 --> 0:50:56.040 And he goes on to tell a story of a 0:50:56.120 --> 0:50:59.760 completely different theory of the crime than we had ever 0:51:00.239 --> 0:51:06.880 heard before, and he essentially says that Micah's death was 0:51:06.920 --> 0:51:11.760 the result of him and Micah getting into an argument 0:51:12.160 --> 0:51:16.400 and Micah pulling a gun on him, and him trying 0:51:16.400 --> 0:51:19.720 to wrestle the gun out of Micah's hands, and while 0:51:19.760 --> 0:51:24.280 that was happening, he says that Bailey grabbed a forty 0:51:24.360 --> 0:51:26.880 pound dumbbell and. 0:51:28.200 --> 0:51:32.840 Dropped it on Micah's head, killing him instantly. And then 0:51:33.400 --> 0:51:38.719 he and Bailey, he said, decided that at that point 0:51:39.239 --> 0:51:43.120 they felt it was best to dispose of Mike's body, 0:51:43.560 --> 0:51:47.759 and so that they dismembered him. And he said that 0:51:48.480 --> 0:51:52.040 they didn't want Mike's body ever to be found, right, 0:51:52.120 --> 0:51:56.640 They just wanted, you know, they didn't want there to 0:51:56.640 --> 0:51:58.920 be a murder investigation. That was the intent. So it 0:51:58.960 --> 0:52:02.680 was quite an expected when his arm was found, and 0:52:02.719 --> 0:52:08.200 then also Micah's skull was later found in a bag 0:52:08.239 --> 0:52:11.279 in the river as well. But anyhow, so it was 0:52:12.040 --> 0:52:14.160 it was just, I mean, it was crazy. There's really 0:52:14.160 --> 0:52:17.360 no other way to describe it. I think. You know, obviously, 0:52:17.400 --> 0:52:21.840 it was incredibly difficult for the moms to hear, particularly 0:52:22.239 --> 0:52:26.680 Baily's mom. I mean, you know, in the courtroom, people 0:52:26.719 --> 0:52:30.560 are given strict instructions. You know, you cannot react, you 0:52:30.719 --> 0:52:33.480 do you sit there and you be quiet. Even if 0:52:33.520 --> 0:52:37.439 you're the family members of the victim, they still really 0:52:37.480 --> 0:52:43.520 don't want you having any type of emotional outburst reaction 0:52:43.760 --> 0:52:47.400 really during the court proceedings. So she just has to 0:52:47.440 --> 0:52:54.360 sit there Wyat. Yeah, I mean it's but of course, 0:52:54.560 --> 0:52:59.879 internally she's dying inside thinking. You know, first of all, 0:52:59.880 --> 0:53:02.280 she always has said that she just does not believe 0:53:02.320 --> 0:53:06.600 that Bailey was physically capable of lifting a forty pound 0:53:06.880 --> 0:53:10.239 dumbbell and lifting it high enough that she would have 0:53:10.280 --> 0:53:13.520 been able to you know. So yeah, so it was 0:53:13.640 --> 0:53:17.560 very difficult for the moms to hear this story. And 0:53:17.600 --> 0:53:20.719 then the detective, you know, who had spent so much 0:53:20.760 --> 0:53:23.880 time working on the case, he was stunned because he's like, what, 0:53:24.040 --> 0:53:27.080 you know, how many times have I given this guy 0:53:27.120 --> 0:53:30.240 the opportunity to tell me his side of the story, 0:53:30.280 --> 0:53:33.280 and he's always said, you know, he has nothing to say, 0:53:33.360 --> 0:53:36.160 that he didn't do anything, and we have it all wrong. 0:53:36.320 --> 0:53:40.640 So yeah, it was, it was. It was crazy. 0:53:41.080 --> 0:53:45.319 Matt was found guilty of murdering the second degree, So 0:53:46.200 --> 0:53:48.520 that's kind of the lesser murder charge, isn't it. 0:53:49.600 --> 0:53:50.680 What does that mean? 0:53:50.880 --> 0:53:53.319 Oh my gosh, I could talk about this aspect of 0:53:53.360 --> 0:54:00.640 the case for ever, because I still don't understand it myself. Secutors, 0:54:00.800 --> 0:54:07.240 the prosecution's theory was that MIC's murder was planned out premeditated, 0:54:07.600 --> 0:54:10.520 which means the only charge that fits that crime is 0:54:10.719 --> 0:54:15.280 first degree murder. But then then you have the defense, 0:54:15.480 --> 0:54:19.560 which was that this really wasn't murder at all, that 0:54:19.640 --> 0:54:22.200 this was you know that first of all, Matt Queen 0:54:22.280 --> 0:54:26.879 himself didn't do anything and it was Bailey and the 0:54:26.880 --> 0:54:30.759 theory that they explained in how Bailey acted would really 0:54:30.800 --> 0:54:35.680 be a manslaughter charge. So when the jury came back 0:54:35.719 --> 0:54:41.200 with second degree murder, which is it's murder but no premeditation, yeah, 0:54:41.239 --> 0:54:45.880 I think everyone involved, the moms, Matt Queen, the prosecutor, 0:54:45.920 --> 0:54:51.360 the defense attorney were all curious of exactly what the 0:54:51.480 --> 0:54:56.239 jury's theory of the crime was. So yeah, that was interesting. 0:54:56.560 --> 0:54:58.120 Yeah, that's all process. 0:54:58.280 --> 0:55:01.120 And then the sentence he was given with eighty six years, 0:55:01.680 --> 0:55:04.400 which kind of just say, to an Australian is huge 0:55:04.680 --> 0:55:09.000 because here almoda charges are around twenty three to twenty 0:55:09.000 --> 0:55:13.319 five years, so eighty six to me seems huge and 0:55:13.400 --> 0:55:14.160 it is huge. 0:55:14.160 --> 0:55:17.279 It's huge for us here in the States as well. 0:55:17.320 --> 0:55:21.839 And the only reason why that occurred is because he 0:55:22.040 --> 0:55:27.120 was charged with so many other crimes. MICA's murder was 0:55:27.480 --> 0:55:33.080 one of I believe it was thirty six charges total. 0:55:35.120 --> 0:55:39.239 You know, there were there was quite the variety. There 0:55:39.239 --> 0:55:46.640 were charges for making manufacturing the ghost guns, there were 0:55:46.680 --> 0:55:50.040 a lot of charges, it was, which made the trial 0:55:50.080 --> 0:55:55.880 itself long and intense. And yeah, so that is why 0:55:56.000 --> 0:55:58.920 that is where that sentence comes into play, because he 0:55:59.040 --> 0:56:04.680 was convicted of so many felonies. If he had only 0:56:04.760 --> 0:56:08.279 been convicted of the murder and second degree murder, his 0:56:08.400 --> 0:56:12.400 sentence would be fifteen years to life, and after fifteen 0:56:12.480 --> 0:56:17.240 years he'd be eligible to seek parole. 0:56:18.360 --> 0:56:20.719 I can imagine, like for MICA's family, that is a 0:56:20.760 --> 0:56:22.640 sense of closure. But then we've still got all these 0:56:22.760 --> 0:56:25.560 unanswered questions in the other two cases. 0:56:25.920 --> 0:56:26.920 You know, where's Bailey. 0:56:27.480 --> 0:56:31.319 There's no charges in her case, and then there's no 0:56:31.440 --> 0:56:33.880 charges in James's case either. I know that he was 0:56:34.120 --> 0:56:37.759 you know, deemed a separate case. But we've got these 0:56:37.800 --> 0:56:41.600 two still unanswered crimes, don't we unsolved crimes? 0:56:41.960 --> 0:56:48.120 Yes? And you know, Micah's mom, Cheryl has always really 0:56:48.160 --> 0:56:52.400 made a point to say, you know, despite us getting 0:56:53.360 --> 0:56:59.520 this sense of resolution in our son's case, we you know, 0:57:00.800 --> 0:57:05.120 our family still fully stands with the other two moms 0:57:05.160 --> 0:57:09.600 and you know this won't really be resolved until there's 0:57:09.640 --> 0:57:15.279 answers in all three cases. And with Bailey's disappearance, you know, 0:57:15.440 --> 0:57:20.360 it's all these years later she is still just missing, right, 0:57:20.440 --> 0:57:27.200 there is still no concrete evidence that says she is deceased, 0:57:27.880 --> 0:57:32.920 despite most people out there feeling like, yeah, that's you know, 0:57:34.600 --> 0:57:40.560 that seems to be the most logical explanation, and so regardless, 0:57:40.840 --> 0:57:45.480 that is going to tear a family up inside unbelievably 0:57:45.680 --> 0:57:49.960 to have to have no answers. But then you add 0:57:49.960 --> 0:57:55.080 in the complication that she was charged with murder, so 0:57:55.480 --> 0:57:58.960 you know, very very difficult for her family to have 0:58:00.280 --> 0:58:05.400 no answers. And then in James's case, you know, once 0:58:05.440 --> 0:58:08.640 it became clear that James's case was likely not directly 0:58:08.640 --> 0:58:14.320 connected to Bailey and Micah's cases, inevitably it got less attention. 0:58:16.200 --> 0:58:20.760 And then once the trial began, James's mom she was 0:58:20.920 --> 0:58:25.640 so crucial in actually no prior to the trial, once 0:58:25.680 --> 0:58:28.520 it came out that Bailey was charged with Micah's murder, 0:58:28.960 --> 0:58:32.320 James's mom was so crucial in being the glue that 0:58:32.520 --> 0:58:36.520 held them together, right, you know, she was the support 0:58:36.560 --> 0:58:41.000 system for Bailey's mom and Micah's mom, And so inevitably 0:58:41.040 --> 0:58:46.200 you have these reasons for why James's case is not 0:58:46.480 --> 0:58:50.760 getting maybe the attention that his family would want it to. 0:58:51.560 --> 0:58:57.000 And at the conclusion of Matt Queen's trial, James's mom died, 0:58:57.280 --> 0:59:01.360 told me, you know, okay, now I'm going to really 0:59:01.400 --> 0:59:07.200 go back to putting my all into my son's case 0:59:07.240 --> 0:59:14.400 and finding answers. And then very shortly after she got sick, 0:59:14.960 --> 0:59:20.960 she was diagnosed with terminal or ovarian cancer. And you know, 0:59:21.720 --> 0:59:30.160 I still can't really talk about it without getting choked up, 0:59:30.400 --> 0:59:35.440 because it's not a part of the job that I anticipated. 0:59:35.480 --> 0:59:38.200 You know, you think it's you think it's hard enough 0:59:38.720 --> 0:59:44.120 working with parents who lose their children to violence, But 0:59:45.080 --> 0:59:50.320 I never imagined working with parents who would not get 0:59:50.360 --> 0:59:57.640 to be here when to see answers, right. I never imagined, 0:59:58.320 --> 1:00:03.120 you know, James's mom would put so much work into 1:00:03.160 --> 1:00:06.560 getting some sort of resolution and then she would die 1:00:06.680 --> 1:00:11.120 without that. So it was, you know, it was horrible, 1:00:13.480 --> 1:00:17.400 and I also feel, you know, a lot of emotion 1:00:17.560 --> 1:00:22.120 in regards to who is fighting for James. Now, you know, 1:00:23.560 --> 1:00:29.439 the other moms do an amazing job, but no one's 1:00:29.480 --> 1:00:33.440 going to fight for you know, no one's going to 1:00:33.520 --> 1:00:36.560 fight the way that she was, and so it's just 1:00:36.640 --> 1:00:42.640 it's very very it's tragic. It's just yeah, it's it's 1:00:42.680 --> 1:00:45.760 a hard part of the case. And for a while 1:00:47.040 --> 1:00:49.880 when she was when we knew she didn't have much 1:00:49.960 --> 1:00:56.400 time left. It did temporarily really push me to circle 1:00:56.440 --> 1:00:59.480 back to James's case and you know, essentially try to 1:00:59.520 --> 1:01:02.800 do everything I could think of. And I made some 1:01:03.160 --> 1:01:08.160 breakthrough there with the chiropractor that you know, had always 1:01:08.160 --> 1:01:13.200 been a person of interest and he was willing to 1:01:13.640 --> 1:01:20.480 talk to me, and and then he died, so that it's, yeah, 1:01:20.520 --> 1:01:27.200 so that was kind of unbelievable. And yeah, I really, 1:01:27.280 --> 1:01:29.080 I really really hope Olivia. 1:01:29.120 --> 1:01:32.320 Can I just say you did everything, You did everything 1:01:32.360 --> 1:01:33.600 in your power in this case. 1:01:33.880 --> 1:01:35.120 This is not on me, thank you. 1:01:35.360 --> 1:01:38.760 It's you know, it's James's case. Is really it's a 1:01:38.800 --> 1:01:43.320 weird one because it seems so solvable, but yet it's not. 1:01:43.720 --> 1:01:49.160 So it's you know, it's really confusing and in that aspect, 1:01:49.280 --> 1:01:53.120 and I mean, I'm really hopeful that there will be 1:01:53.560 --> 1:01:58.480 answers in both his case and Bailey's case. And you know, 1:01:58.680 --> 1:02:04.240 after c James's mom passed without answers, you know, I 1:02:05.520 --> 1:02:09.800 don't want to think about that Bailey's family having to 1:02:10.160 --> 1:02:13.440 go through that. You know, it really is a part 1:02:13.480 --> 1:02:17.080 of the job that just it hit me so much 1:02:17.120 --> 1:02:20.520 harder than I would ever imagine, and it just doesn't 1:02:20.520 --> 1:02:23.280 seem it's just so not fair, you know, it's just 1:02:23.440 --> 1:02:28.120 so obviously it's so not fair. But it's just like 1:02:28.200 --> 1:02:31.720 how cruel can life be? Is sort of where I 1:02:31.720 --> 1:02:32.600 find myself. 1:02:33.160 --> 1:02:35.360 Well, we're in twenty twenty six when we're talking now, 1:02:35.400 --> 1:02:39.000 and it's so obvious to me that the emotion in 1:02:39.040 --> 1:02:42.040 you from covering this case for so many years, you know, 1:02:42.080 --> 1:02:44.080 starting off in twenty eighteen, that was a trial in 1:02:44.080 --> 1:02:48.240 twenty twenty two. What's it like for you to like 1:02:48.280 --> 1:02:52.000 look back in hindsight and see how this case is 1:02:52.080 --> 1:02:56.439 kind of shaped to your career and you your mom. 1:02:56.520 --> 1:02:59.680 Now it feels like to me that it plays a 1:02:59.680 --> 1:03:00.959 special pod in your life. 1:03:01.000 --> 1:03:05.520 This case, it absolutely does. And you know, it taught 1:03:05.640 --> 1:03:11.880 me so many things about being a reporter, and you know, 1:03:11.960 --> 1:03:18.480 the moms have inspired me so much. But to be 1:03:18.880 --> 1:03:25.720 totally honest, you know, since becoming a mom recently, it's almost, 1:03:26.560 --> 1:03:29.840 I don't know, I think even on a subconscious level, 1:03:30.040 --> 1:03:35.160 I've almost taken a step back from the case because 1:03:35.160 --> 1:03:38.320 it is so much you know, before I used to 1:03:38.360 --> 1:03:43.640 relate to the moms on a level of, oh my 1:03:43.800 --> 1:03:46.080 mom loves me this much. My mom would do this 1:03:46.200 --> 1:03:50.280 for me, that is, And I thought that that already 1:03:50.480 --> 1:03:56.640 was emotional and intense. I never anticipated what it would 1:03:56.640 --> 1:03:59.520 make me feel like to think about what the mom's 1:04:00.160 --> 1:04:02.960 have gone through, what they go through every day being 1:04:03.000 --> 1:04:10.680 a mom myself. It's almost too intense. Yeah, it really 1:04:10.760 --> 1:04:11.320 kind of is. 1:04:13.080 --> 1:04:15.440 Thank you to Olivia for joining us on this episode. 1:04:15.760 --> 1:04:18.200 You can find a link to her podcast, The Bakersfield 1:04:18.200 --> 1:04:21.160 Three in our show notes. Thanks so much for listening. 1:04:21.240 --> 1:04:24.280 I'll be back next week with another true crime conversation.