Speaker 1: It's May twenty eighteen, and Jane parent is desperately trying
Speaker 1: to find her daughter. Bailey Despot, has been missing since
Speaker 1: late April in their hometown of Bakersfield, California. The twenty
Speaker 1: one year old had been living at her boyfriend Matthew
Speaker 1: Queen's house. It's belief the last time she was seen
Speaker 1: was outside his property. Jane has been plastering the city
Speaker 1: with fliers of her daughter's face, but no one has
Speaker 1: seen the beautiful young woman with the piercing green eyes
Speaker 1: and long brown hair. Across town, another mother is desperately
Speaker 1: searching her son, Micah Holsenbake, went missing one month before Bailey.
Speaker 1: As their parents will soon discover, the pair knew each other.
Speaker 2: But that's not all.
Speaker 1: There's a third victim, and this man has been murdered
Speaker 1: right in between Micah and Bailey's disappearances. It's not long
Speaker 1: before James's mother joins the other two mums, and together
Speaker 1: they start to investigate what happened. They ask to the
Speaker 1: Bakersfield Three, I'm Jemma Bath and you're listening to True
Speaker 1: Crime Conversations, a podcast exploring the world's most notorious crimes
Speaker 1: by speaking to the people who know the most about them.
Speaker 1: No one wants to be the mother of a murdered child.
Speaker 1: No one wants to be the mother of a missing child.
Speaker 1: But in twenty eighteen, Jane parent die Burn and Cheryl
Speaker 1: Holsenbak were part of the same club. They were all
Speaker 1: grieving and desperately searching for answers in their adult children's cases.
Speaker 1: Doing those two things together as a team, they forged
Speaker 1: an unbreakable bond, a fierce sisterhood that saw them proudly
Speaker 1: claim the rallying cry fight like a mother. Not only
Speaker 1: did these women give the local detectives and journalists a
Speaker 1: run for their money with their investigative skills as they
Speaker 1: pieced together their children's last movements and last interactions, but
Speaker 1: they also turned their tragedy into advocacy. Amongst their search
Speaker 1: for answers, they raised tens of thousands of dollars for
Speaker 1: crime solving programs. They met with local government officials to
Speaker 1: advocate for more funding for investigations, better technology, stronger coordination
Speaker 1: between agencies, and reforms to public safety systems, all issues
Speaker 1: they'd come across while playing detective. Not only that, they
Speaker 1: also found the time to lend their support and love
Speaker 1: to other Bakersfield families trying to navigate the justice system.
Speaker 1: Quite frankly, these women were and are incredible. Their fierce determination, strength,
Speaker 1: love for their children, and unconditional friendship is to be admired. Alone.
Speaker 1: They admit they might have crumbled into their grief, but
Speaker 1: together they were unstoppable. Tragically, Diane Byrne, mother of James,
Speaker 1: isn't with us anymore. She died from ovarian cancer in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3: Reporter Olivia Lavoyce.
Speaker 1: Covered the many twists and turns in these three overlapping
Speaker 1: cases alongside the mums. Her podcast, The Bakersfield Three tells
Speaker 1: their story in detail. Olivia joins us Now, Olivia, thank
Speaker 1: you for joining us on true crime conversations. You know Bakersfield, Well,
Speaker 1: you've lived there, you've worked there. For those of us
Speaker 1: who've never been there, what's it like? What's Bakersfield like
Speaker 1: as a place.
Speaker 2: So, Bakersfield is a city in California, But I think
Speaker 2: a lot of people who've never been when they hear California,
Speaker 2: they're envisioning beaches and Hollywood. Bakersfield is not that at all.
Speaker 2: Bakersfield is in the middle of the Steeds and it's
Speaker 2: quite rural. It has a small town feel, even though
Speaker 2: it's not a small town. It's a relatively large city, Bakersfield.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately for the people who live there, Bakersfield is plagued
Speaker 2: with a lot of issues, a high crime rate being
Speaker 2: at the top of the list. And I mean to
Speaker 2: be frank, most people in the state of California who
Speaker 2: do not live in Bakersfield, they don't consider it a
Speaker 2: nice place. It has a bit of a rough reputation.
Speaker 1: If you will, I want to start with Bailey Despot.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a bit about who she was
Speaker 1: and when she went missing?
Speaker 2: Yes, So, Bailey was twenty years old when she went
Speaker 2: missing in April twenty eighteen. And Bailey, like most of
Speaker 2: the people involved in this case, was someone who had
Speaker 2: a great upbringing. She had so many things going for her,
Speaker 2: and unfortunately, there were some tragic circumstances in her life
Speaker 2: that ultimately led to her going down what you would call,
Speaker 2: you know, the wrong path and ultimately put her in
Speaker 2: the crosshairs of some of the players in this case
Speaker 2: that you know, aren't the type of people you'd think
Speaker 2: someone like Bailey would have been around.
Speaker 1: Tell me about how you first, because Bailey was your
Speaker 1: inn into this story, wasn't it? And you were kind
Speaker 1: of in a courthouse flicking through documents, and she was
Speaker 1: your way into this story. Tell me about how that
Speaker 1: kind of unfiled.
Speaker 2: So I was doing something I routinely did at the courthouse,
Speaker 2: which was go through publicly filed search warrants, and I
Speaker 2: came across a search warrant about man who basically was
Speaker 2: being investigated for having a gun when he legally was
Speaker 2: not supposed to. And there was just one line in
Speaker 2: that search warrant that really stood out to me, which
Speaker 2: was that this individual was living with a woman at
Speaker 2: the time of her disappearance. And so I read that
Speaker 2: it was just it was so fascinating to me because
Speaker 2: it really wasn't relevant to the guns, it seemed at
Speaker 2: first glance, and it was so vague but yet so
Speaker 2: huge at the same time. And so that all it
Speaker 2: said was he was living with a woman at the
Speaker 2: time of her disappearance, something along those lines. So I
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, I have to know who this woman is.
Speaker 2: I have to know more. And that woman was, of
Speaker 2: course Bailey.
Speaker 1: Despot, and that man was Matthew Quaine. Tell us a
Speaker 1: bit about him because they were boyfriend and girlfriend.
Speaker 3: Who was he?
Speaker 2: So Matthew Queen also a very interesting individual in terms
Speaker 2: of from the outside he looked he looked like he
Speaker 2: really had it all together. He had a good job,
Speaker 2: good career as an electrician. He owned a nice home
Speaker 2: in a nice neighborhood. He was married with children. However,
Speaker 2: he also was in a relationship with Bailey, who was
Speaker 2: half his age. And what you know his friends and
Speaker 2: colleagues weren't seeing was Matthew Queen appeared to have an
Speaker 2: interest in guns, and you know, his law enforcement would
Speaker 2: go on to say they believed he had an interest
Speaker 2: in building guns high power to salt rifles that are illegal,
Speaker 2: and that he was also they believed dabbling in drugs.
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, So let's pause on Matthew and Bailey and
Speaker 1: bring in Micah here. He was another missing person within
Speaker 1: a month of Bailey. Who was he and what were
Speaker 1: the circumstances around his disappearance.
Speaker 2: So when I first started looking into the case, I'm
Speaker 2: looking at it just through the lens of Bailey's disappearance,
Speaker 2: and then I quickly find out that she was friends
Speaker 2: with Michael holsoen Bak and that he had gone missing
Speaker 2: almost exactly one month before she had And Micah was
Speaker 2: someone who really had created an amazing life for himself,
Speaker 2: a really successful career as a financial advisor, you know,
Speaker 2: a wife, he had a child, and then he he
Speaker 2: had surgery that resulted in him being prescribed pain medication
Speaker 2: that he ultimately became addicted to and slowly but surely
Speaker 2: it completely derailed his life. So at the time of
Speaker 2: his disappearance, he was involved in drugs and also hanging
Speaker 2: out with some shady characters who you know, I actually
Speaker 2: interviewed some of them, some of the shady characters who
Speaker 2: would tell me, you know, Micah so did not fit in.
Speaker 2: We were like, why is this guy hanging out with us?
Speaker 2: Like he clearly is cut from a different cloth, you know,
Speaker 2: he doesn't seem like someone who would be hanging out
Speaker 2: with drug addicts, you know, in a garage somewhere. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: that is where you know, Micah ended up. And that
Speaker 2: is a reoccurring theme that you see in the podcast,
Speaker 2: whether it's with the victims as well as suspects, where
Speaker 2: these people really all you know, so had it together
Speaker 2: and through circumstances, you know, none of them set out
Speaker 2: to start you you know, to become drug addicts. It really,
Speaker 2: you know, it's what we see so much here in America,
Speaker 2: especially with the opioid crisis, you know, with it starts
Speaker 2: with the prescription for a legitimate medical reason and you know,
Speaker 2: ends in addictions.
Speaker 1: And it is a really good reminder that you could
Speaker 1: grow up in the most amazing home, but you know,
Speaker 1: a few wrong turns and this is where you end up.
Speaker 1: And this is like, I think, where the mums come in,
Speaker 1: because these mums that we're about to tell you about
Speaker 1: are so loving and warm and kind and nurturing to
Speaker 1: their kids. How did Marca and Bailey's moms first connect.
Speaker 2: Bailey's mom, Jane and Micah's mom, Cheryl first connected because
Speaker 2: Cheryl and her husband are essentially doing their own investigation
Speaker 2: into trying to find Micah, and they had heard Bailey's
Speaker 2: name before. They knew that Bailey was someone that Micah
Speaker 2: you know, had hung around with. And one day, when
Speaker 2: they're just sort of driving around passing out their own
Speaker 2: missing flyers for Micah, they see a missing flyer for
Speaker 2: Bailey and they make that connection and think, Okay, this
Speaker 2: is really weird. So they then reached out to Bailey's mom, Jane,
Speaker 2: and then from there, so you have Bailey's mom and
Speaker 2: Micah's mom connected, and then you have a third mom
Speaker 2: and a third victim, James Colstead, who knew both. James
Speaker 2: knew both Bailey and Micah, but he was really more
Speaker 2: Micah's friend. And James was shot to death about two
Speaker 2: weeks after Micah went missing and about two weeks before
Speaker 2: Bailey went missing. So this series of events was you
Speaker 2: have Micah goes missing in end of March twenty eighteen
Speaker 2: mid April, James is shot to death outside of the
Speaker 2: home of a local chiropractor, and then two weeks after
Speaker 2: that you have Bailey go missing. And so the three
Speaker 2: moms realized, okay, our three children knew each other, and
Speaker 2: their disappearances and murder happened essentially back to back. You know,
Speaker 2: is it possible that this really is a coincidence or
Speaker 2: is there a connection here?
Speaker 1: You've got those moms in one room together. What was
Speaker 1: it like kind of facilitating that and kind of seeing
Speaker 1: them form It's almost like a task for so police
Speaker 1: task full in what they kind of went out to
Speaker 1: do in their investigation. What was it like to be
Speaker 1: there to witness those three moms being together.
Speaker 2: It was really really powerful, almost overwhelming in a way
Speaker 2: because they just there is such an intensity there. But
Speaker 2: at the same time, these three women are I always
Speaker 2: say like they are the very definition of a mother.
Speaker 2: They're so all three of them are so maternal and
Speaker 2: fiercely protective, and you know, I kind of think that
Speaker 2: that's what made them so good at this because no
Speaker 2: one's going to you know, no one's going to work
Speaker 2: harder than a mom, you know, when it comes to
Speaker 2: protecting their child, right, So it was it was amazing.
Speaker 2: But yeah, they you know, I think we had that
Speaker 2: first meeting and it was me maybe less than a
Speaker 2: week later that you know, they'd show up to my
Speaker 2: news station and have like binders of information that the
Speaker 2: three of them had compiled together. So yeah, I was
Speaker 2: it was intense, but in a good way.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a bit more about that dynamic,
Speaker 1: because each one of these women had a very specific
Speaker 1: skill set that they kind of brought to the team.
Speaker 1: You had one on the phones, you had one on
Speaker 1: the kind of organization. Can you tell us a bit
Speaker 1: about who they were in and amongst all of this.
Speaker 2: Yes, So Micah's mother, Cheryl, she is like an organization queen.
Speaker 2: She was the one who was really good at making
Speaker 2: sure all the information was put into spreadsheets and diagrams,
Speaker 2: and you know, she was kind of their computer with
Speaker 2: as well. Then you have Diane or Die as everyone
Speaker 2: calls her, James's mother who die Die was the one
Speaker 2: who was very good at scheduling meetings with just about
Speaker 2: everyone you could think of law enforcement, city council members.
Speaker 2: She was very good at sort of being the face
Speaker 2: of the three moms and their mission. And then you
Speaker 2: have Bailey's mom, Jane, who is the one who wants
Speaker 2: to pound the pavement all day and night. She will
Speaker 2: literally spend twelve hours straight taping up missing flyers without
Speaker 2: you know, without taking a water break, and she doesn't
Speaker 2: think twice about it. She also, Jane is also someone
Speaker 2: who will not take no for an answer. She's pushy,
Speaker 2: but in the best way. So, you know, the three
Speaker 2: of them really they were such an amazing team because
Speaker 2: of you know, their unique strengths and whatnot. And they
Speaker 2: also would always say that they would take turns supporting
Speaker 2: each other like they would take turns. You know, one day,
Speaker 2: Jane would say, Okay, I'm really struggling today, I feel
Speaker 2: like I can't get out of bed. And you know,
Speaker 2: then it would be Cheryl and die who would help
Speaker 2: support her and you know, sort of pick up the
Speaker 2: slack for her, if you will, and they would all
Speaker 2: alternate doing that, you know, taking care of each other.
Speaker 2: And so it was amazing because they had this common
Speaker 2: goal of finding answers of what happened to their children,
Speaker 2: but they also are helping support each other through such
Speaker 2: a horrific, complicated process of grieving, but grieving without answers
Speaker 2: and you know, just really complex stuff.
Speaker 1: One of the lines the one of the mothers say
Speaker 1: was if we were by ourselves, we couldn't hold ourselves
Speaker 1: together long enough to do this.
Speaker 3: So it's I think that was really.
Speaker 1: Poignant because it shows that, you know, alone they might
Speaker 1: have fallen apart, but together they had this kind of camaraderie,
Speaker 1: this friendship, this kind of sole purpose that made them
Speaker 1: so powerful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I absolutely believe that.
Speaker 1: Where did you come into this? Were you kind of
Speaker 1: reporting stories as you as they helped you find them?
Speaker 1: Were you steering them in the right direction? Because the
Speaker 1: two missing people and James's case, they were kind of
Speaker 1: playing out in the news headlines at the time, weren't they.
Speaker 2: So, you know, it's funny. I always say that the
Speaker 2: moms give me way too much credit for my work
Speaker 2: on the case. I also always say they really didn't
Speaker 2: need me, you know, they were they could do any
Speaker 2: investigating I could do, they could do ten times more,
Speaker 2: and just yeah, they totally didn't need me. That being said,
Speaker 2: I was dedicated to covering every development on the case.
Speaker 2: And you know, in local news that can be a
Speaker 2: challenge when you know you want to keep a case alive,
Speaker 2: you want to keep the story out there, but sometimes
Speaker 2: they're just there are no developments, and unfortunately, you know,
Speaker 2: the powers that be, they're not going to let you
Speaker 2: put a story on air if there's nothing new to report, right,
Speaker 2: And so, yeah, I got lucky with this case in
Speaker 2: the sense that it seemed like there was always another development,
Speaker 2: another twist and turn. So I was reporting on it
Speaker 2: much more consistently than most of my other cases because
Speaker 2: of so I'm trying to remember exactly how long it
Speaker 2: was that I was reporting on it in local news.
Speaker 2: About a year and a half, I want to say.
Speaker 2: And then after I left local news, I stayed in
Speaker 2: touch with the moms and continued you know, following the
Speaker 2: case and whatnot, and I always knew that I wanted
Speaker 2: to tell the story in a way that was in
Speaker 2: a way that I felt like would do the story
Speaker 2: justice and local news. I love it. I'm so grateful
Speaker 2: for my time there. But the stories are like two
Speaker 2: minutes long. For this story, I'm like, Okay, I need
Speaker 2: a podcast, and I need it to be it's going
Speaker 2: to be long. It's not going to be a short one.
Speaker 1: I want to kind of help listeners understand. You did
Speaker 1: touch on the fact that all three of these payopal
Speaker 1: the kids in this scenario were starting to go down
Speaker 1: quite doc paths. So we had kind of MICA's mental
Speaker 1: health that really deteriorated before he went missing. We had
Speaker 1: James that had lived through the mother of his child
Speaker 1: dying addiction, and then we have Bailey who survived a
Speaker 1: rape and she had a miscarriage an overdose, Like these
Speaker 1: are all really serious things that are happening in these
Speaker 1: people's lives. I want to focus in on James for
Speaker 1: a moment because this is where it starts to get
Speaker 1: quite criminal. He was actually cashing fraudulent checks, wasn't he.
Speaker 2: Yes, this was a whole area of crime that I
Speaker 2: really didn't understand. And it's funny because when I was
Speaker 2: making the podcast, I was interviewing someone who was involved
Speaker 2: in this male check fraud with James, and he was
Speaker 2: explaining it to me, and he could tell that I
Speaker 2: didn't really understand it, and he was sort of like,
Speaker 2: aren't you a crime reporter? And I'm like, yes, I am,
Speaker 2: but not this type of crime. This is yeah, this
Speaker 2: was not my area of xy. Yes, exactly white collar
Speaker 2: and in a way so simple but surprisingly efficient. Apparently
Speaker 2: it was just they would just go around robbing people's
Speaker 2: mailboxes and would you know, I guess pretty often find
Speaker 2: checks in people's mailboxes and using the chiro. So this
Speaker 2: is where the chiropractor comes into play. The chiropractor owned
Speaker 2: his own business and therefore had a business bank account,
Speaker 2: and I guess it was much easier for these fraud
Speaker 2: for these checks, the stolen checks to be cashed through
Speaker 2: the chiropractor's business account, and so James and others would
Speaker 2: bring the stolen checks to the chiropractor have him cash them,
Speaker 2: and then they would had split split that money fifty
Speaker 2: to fifty. And so the night that James was murdered,
Speaker 2: you know, the story that I was always told was
Speaker 2: he went to the chiropractor's house because there was some
Speaker 2: sort of dispute about one of these checks, though the
Speaker 2: chiropractor ultimately denied that. So yes, so the checks. And
Speaker 2: then the other crime that plays a big role in
Speaker 2: this case was the manufacturing of illegal firearms.
Speaker 1: After the break, Olivia tells me about the ghost gun
Speaker 1: ring that two of the Bikersfield three were involved in.
Speaker 2: Basically, they called them ghost guns and they would build these.
Speaker 2: They were just these really intense guns that had no
Speaker 2: tracking numbers on them, so that's what made them. You know,
Speaker 2: they were illegal for being high power assault rifles if
Speaker 2: I remember correctally, as well as having no serial numbers,
Speaker 2: which is where the terminology ghost guns comes into place.
Speaker 2: And so these guns were really made for people. They're
Speaker 2: made for people who could not buy guns legally, and
Speaker 2: also people who wanted to use guns without having to
Speaker 2: worry about, you know, there being a serial number that
Speaker 2: law enforcement could trace back to. You know, oh, Bob
Speaker 2: Smith bought this gun, you know, on this date at
Speaker 2: this store type of thing.
Speaker 1: So how did Maca and Bailey even get kind of
Speaker 1: wrapped up in that? Because we've got James with the
Speaker 1: Foger Chicks, and then it's Macro and Bailey that are
Speaker 1: involved in this kind of gun operation.
Speaker 2: With James as well as Mica and Bailey, it seems
Speaker 2: like it really all boils down to addiction, and you know,
Speaker 2: they began doing these things in order to get money
Speaker 2: for drugs. Bailey's involvement with the ghost guns, as far
Speaker 2: as I could tell, especially initially, was just that, you know,
Speaker 2: she was dating and living with Matthew Queen, who, you know,
Speaker 2: despite having a career, a successful career as an electrician.
Speaker 2: You know, police said that he had this hobby, if
Speaker 2: you will, of building these high powered assault rifles, the
Speaker 2: ghost guns, and yeah, you know, I never I never
Speaker 2: got as much clarity on this aspect of it as
Speaker 2: I would have liked, because, you know, some of the
Speaker 2: people that I interviewed that were building these guns like
Speaker 2: this was like their this was their job, so to speak,
Speaker 2: This was how they were making a living. Matt Queen
Speaker 2: had an actual real job. He certainly didn't need to
Speaker 2: be involved often illegal firearms in order to pay his mortgage.
Speaker 2: So I don't know, it's just kind of an interesting,
Speaker 2: odd part of the case.
Speaker 1: I'm going to bring us now to kind of a
Speaker 1: big breakthrough in the case, which was two body parts
Speaker 1: being found kind of two months apart, an arm and
Speaker 1: a leg in two different waterways in Bakersfield. When that
Speaker 1: news started coming through, what were the mum's reactions because
Speaker 1: they've obviously spent months on this investigation searching and then
Speaker 1: suddenly body parts turn up.
Speaker 2: It was so difficult for the moms when first the
Speaker 2: leg was found at a popular lake, and then about
Speaker 2: a month later a group of boys found a bag
Speaker 2: in the river, and inside that bag they found it
Speaker 2: human arm. It was so difficult for the moms because
Speaker 2: of course they're first thought was do either of these
Speaker 2: body parts belong to either of our missing children Mica
Speaker 2: and Bailey. But then there's also, you know, hope that
Speaker 2: it was so complicated. They hoped that obviously the body
Speaker 2: parts did not belong to their children, but at the
Speaker 2: same time they were like, well, if they do, then
Speaker 2: you know, at least there's an answer, right I think.
Speaker 2: You know, missing persons cases are so incredibly challenging for
Speaker 2: loved ones when they really feel in their core that
Speaker 2: their loved one is no longer here on this earth.
Speaker 2: But until you have proof of that it's impossible to
Speaker 2: not have a little hope and yeah, so it was
Speaker 2: for me as a reporter. It was very heavy to
Speaker 2: watch them sort of navigate this push and pull, push
Speaker 2: and pull of Okay, I want to believe my child's
Speaker 2: still alive, but at the same time, I really I
Speaker 2: sort of know that they're not. So do I want
Speaker 2: to believe that a severed arm belongs to my child? No,
Speaker 2: But at the same time, if it is my child,
Speaker 2: then you know, at least there's something to go off of.
Speaker 2: And then it got very sad and very surprising once
Speaker 2: I learned, along with the mothers that the DNA testing
Speaker 2: was going to take so long. I believe they were
Speaker 2: initially told it would be up to a year and yes,
Speaker 2: and so that was that was horrible. The moms were like,
Speaker 2: this is the worst feeling in the world, wondering is
Speaker 2: a body part a piece of my child? And now
Speaker 2: you're telling me we might have to wait a year
Speaker 2: to find out. I mean, it was unbelievable. And you know,
Speaker 2: I'm I was a local crime reporter. It was my
Speaker 2: job to know things like that. I had no clue.
Speaker 2: I had no clue and I don't think I ever
Speaker 2: would have if it wasn't for the moms. I mean,
Speaker 2: there were quite a few severe issues within the Bakersfield,
Speaker 2: the Kerrent County, and California justice system that I was
Speaker 2: completely unaware of until the moms brought the issues to
Speaker 2: the forefront.
Speaker 1: Well I didn't take that, ye along White in this stride.
Speaker 1: They changed it. They went and talked to law officials,
Speaker 1: they moved the process along. Tell us a bit about that,
Speaker 1: because that was pretty unprecedented.
Speaker 2: Was you know, I've never seen anything like it. It
Speaker 2: was amazing. They simply put they were not going to
Speaker 2: take the you know, you might have to wait a
Speaker 2: year answer. They weren't gonna they weren't going to accept that.
Speaker 2: They just felt like, there's just there has to be
Speaker 2: another way, and there was there was technology out there
Speaker 2: that could get them result could get them answers very quickly,
Speaker 2: and so, you know, from their perspective, it just it
Speaker 2: simply did not make sense for the technology to not
Speaker 2: be utilized. And then you know, they're told, well, it
Speaker 2: can't be utilized because we don't have the funding, to
Speaker 2: which the moms said, okay, great, we'll get the funding.
Speaker 2: You know, they weren't going to take any of these answers.
Speaker 2: They were like, no, it's not you know, there's no
Speaker 2: challenge that the three of us can't overcome. And so
Speaker 2: not only did they raise all the funding that was
Speaker 2: needed for their specific cases, but they went on to
Speaker 2: do it for or just for the criminal justice system
Speaker 2: in Bakersfield as a whole. Right. They started raising money
Speaker 2: for all unsolved cases. So that was really really cool
Speaker 2: to witness that, And I think it's so rare that
Speaker 2: as a crime reporter you get to see people do
Speaker 2: something good, make something good out of what is, you know,
Speaker 2: someone's worst nightmare. So yeah, I'm very inspiring.
Speaker 1: And their worst nightmare that were leaving it and they
Speaker 1: managed to do that, which I think is even more inspiring.
Speaker 1: So these body parts are found around media, and then
Speaker 1: five days before Christmas, they get the news of the DNA.
Speaker 1: Do you remember finding out about that? Did they call you?
Speaker 1: How did you find out?
Speaker 2: Yes? They called me. They were together and it was
Speaker 2: absolutely horrific. The news that they were given was that
Speaker 2: the leg did not match to Mica or Bailey, but
Speaker 2: that the severed arm that was in the bag in
Speaker 2: the river did match to Micah. It was so devastating.
Speaker 2: It was so shocking.
Speaker 1: I was not.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I just remember really not expecting it,
Speaker 2: and I'll never forget, you know, the emotion. And I
Speaker 2: don't really think that Micah's mom was able to actually
Speaker 2: say anything on that call. You know, it was such
Speaker 2: raw grief that I mean, this was before I had
Speaker 2: children myself. If I had children, I don't know if
Speaker 2: I could have done this. I don't know if I
Speaker 2: could have been you know, I would have been sobbing
Speaker 2: right there with her. It is, so it is actually
Speaker 2: harder for me now, all these years later, at being
Speaker 2: a mother myself, to think back to these moments than
Speaker 2: it was when I was actually living them. So it
Speaker 2: was really intense because you mentioned Sevid, So it was
Speaker 2: very obvious to MICA's mum that he had suffered violence
Speaker 2: like that wasn't there because of it had just fallen
Speaker 2: off like it was a very viot and so, you know,
Speaker 2: it was one thing to have confirmation that okay, Micah
Speaker 2: was in fact murdered, but for the confirmation, I mean,
Speaker 2: it wasn't just confirmation of that, it was confirmation that
Speaker 2: he was murdered. And then his body was dismembered, and
Speaker 2: cases of dismemberment are pretty rare, uh, and it was
Speaker 2: also quite jarring to think. Okay, so these teenage boys
Speaker 2: just happened to, you know, feel feel something brush up
Speaker 2: against one of their legs, decided to pull it up,
Speaker 2: saw it was a bag, decided to take it to
Speaker 2: shore and open it. I mean, so many other people
Speaker 2: they would have felt saying brush up against their leg
Speaker 2: and just walk away right like it was. So it
Speaker 2: was really incredible that they opened the bag, you know whatsoever.
Speaker 2: But then we're also thinking, okay, well where's the rest
Speaker 2: of him? How many? How many more bags are there
Speaker 2: in that river? And you know, it was it was crazy.
Speaker 2: It was crazy, and a lot of people then started
Speaker 2: talking about organized crime because the idea was, you know,
Speaker 2: the dismemberment was so brutal. A lot of people felt
Speaker 2: like that that was an indicator that, you know, this
Speaker 2: must be the work of you know, a drug cartel
Speaker 2: or some violent gang.
Speaker 1: Well, this is why the case got quite overwhelming, wasn't it,
Speaker 1: Because it was like, was it the mafia? Was it
Speaker 1: the bikys? Was it you know other criminals in town?
Speaker 1: I want to skip us full because I know that
Speaker 1: took up a lot of kind of that over Christmas
Speaker 1: and then early twenty nineteen, but then police kind of announced,
Speaker 1: which wasn't huge news to the moms, but it was
Speaker 1: confirmation at least that Micah and Bailey's disappearances were linked.
Speaker 1: But they also stated that James's wasn't. So that wasn't
Speaker 1: news to you, was it? But I guess it was
Speaker 1: confirmation from authorities.
Speaker 2: Yes. To me, the announcement was significant because typically the
Speaker 2: Bakersfield Police Department, they typically just didn't comment on cases
Speaker 2: that were that were open, right, So it was sort
Speaker 2: of like, okay, wait, And of course, at that point,
Speaker 2: it had been quite some time that myself and the
Speaker 2: moms had been saying to this police department, are the
Speaker 2: cases connected? You know, what can you tell us about that?
Speaker 2: And they wouldn't comment on it. But then suddenly, unprompted,
Speaker 2: they made this announcement. So it was just sort of unusual.
Speaker 2: I guess you could say I was very curious as
Speaker 2: to why they were choosing to do it. Yeah, it
Speaker 2: was interesting.
Speaker 1: Twenty nineteen is when you left Bakersfield and moved to
Speaker 1: another job in another city.
Speaker 3: What was that like for you?
Speaker 1: Leaving this case so unfinished and leaving the moms that
Speaker 1: you'd formed such a relationship with. I.
Speaker 2: I mean, it was it was the worst. I yeah,
Speaker 2: I really, I was so involved for so long at
Speaker 2: that point it you know, it's it was hard for.
Speaker 3: Me to leave.
Speaker 2: A lot of cases that were unsolved that I really
Speaker 2: hoped to be there working on the case when they
Speaker 2: would get solved. But the Baker's feel three, you know,
Speaker 2: given my connection to the three moms, that was definitely
Speaker 2: the hardest. And you know, I wanted to I wanted
Speaker 2: the moms to still be able to lean on me,
Speaker 2: despite me not being there physically anymore, and despite me
Speaker 2: not being a local reporter in Bakersfield. I still felt like, okay,
Speaker 2: like I can that doesn't mean that I still can't
Speaker 2: be connected to the case and whatnot. So but yeah,
Speaker 2: it was tough.
Speaker 1: Up next, we revealed the revelation about Mike's murder that
Speaker 1: no one saw coming. I want to bring us now
Speaker 1: to the big twist in this case, which is, from
Speaker 1: your words what you describe it as. It's May twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: some peak COVID and there's an arrest and some charges late.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us about that, because that was really
Speaker 1: shocking news to basically everyone.
Speaker 2: Yes, it was May twenty twenty when charges were filed
Speaker 2: in Micah's murder, and there were two people charged. One
Speaker 2: of them was Matt Queen, which was very surprising in
Speaker 2: the sense that you know, up until this point, the
Speaker 2: public perception was that Matt Queen was likely a suspect
Speaker 2: in Bailey's disappearance because you know, he was her boyfriend,
Speaker 2: so people were not expect people thought, Okay, if Matt
Speaker 2: Queen gets charged with anything, it's going to be in
Speaker 2: relation to Bailey's disappearance, not MICA's. So that was surprising
Speaker 2: in itself. The second person that was charged with Micah's murder,
Speaker 2: this was I mean, there were truly no words that
Speaker 2: I've ever been able to come up with to really
Speaker 2: adequately explain how utterly shocking and earth shattering this was.
Speaker 2: Because the second person that was charged with Mike's murder
Speaker 2: was Bailey. And you know, at this point, it had
Speaker 2: been about two years since this had been a very
Speaker 2: public news story, you know, having these three friends that
Speaker 2: you know went missing or were murdered back to back,
Speaker 2: and as well as their three mothers who banded together
Speaker 2: to find answers. But then we're also doing so much
Speaker 2: good in the community. I also think what made it
Speaker 2: even more shocking was that of the three, Bailey was
Speaker 2: the most sympathetic victim because she was a young, beautiful woman, right,
Speaker 2: so it was easy for people to look at her.
Speaker 2: And I don't know, I think that's just the only
Speaker 2: way I can put it, is that she just was
Speaker 2: the most sympathetic. And yet now we're being told she
Speaker 2: was she was not only are we being told that, okay,
Speaker 2: she was a murderer, we're being told that she murdered Micah,
Speaker 2: her friend, and you know, this other victim, and we
Speaker 2: thought they were victims together. It just I mean, even
Speaker 2: now I feel like I struggled to talk about it
Speaker 2: in a way that really is clear and concise, because
Speaker 2: it's still so shocking and baffling. And furthermore, another big
Speaker 2: question everyone had the day that the charges were announced
Speaker 2: was wait a second, do you guys, is Bailey still
Speaker 2: missing or do you guys think you know, is she
Speaker 2: in a jail cell somewhere? And they said, no, she's
Speaker 2: still missing. Okay, So up until this point, we've all
Speaker 2: believed her disappearance was suspicious and that she most likely
Speaker 2: had been murdered herself. Is that not the belief anymore?
Speaker 2: Do you guys think now she's just like on the
Speaker 2: run And we were told no, you know, we don't
Speaker 2: the answers that day, I felt like we're not as
Speaker 2: straightforward as personally I would have liked. But you know, ultimately, no,
Speaker 2: it doesn't. I do not believe that law enforcement believes
Speaker 2: that she is on the run. I think the belief
Speaker 2: is that she was also a victim, but that prior
Speaker 2: to becoming a victim herself, that she was involved in
Speaker 2: Mike's murder. So, you know, I'm just going on a
Speaker 2: rant about this because you could tell it is still
Speaker 2: it's still emotionally affects me, and I'm the reporter. You know,
Speaker 2: it's I sort of feel like I don't really have
Speaker 2: a right to be emotionally affected by it, but I was,
Speaker 2: and I still am because I knew how much this
Speaker 2: was going to turn the lives upside down of the
Speaker 2: three moms.
Speaker 1: I can say, I can see how you reacted like
Speaker 1: that you were emotionally invested in these moms. How did
Speaker 1: maca and and Bailey's moms?
Speaker 3: Did it rock their relationship with Ayibu to.
Speaker 1: Kind of look past this and remain friends.
Speaker 2: So ultimately, yes, they were able to weather the storm together,
Speaker 2: which you know is unbelievable, but it was not, you know,
Speaker 2: it was it was complicated, and I think to some
Speaker 2: extent it's it will always be complicated. I think that
Speaker 2: James's mom, Die was the most amazing person to be
Speaker 2: sort of the middleman between Jane and Cheryl for a
Speaker 2: little while. You know, Cheryl and Jane have both said
Speaker 2: they think in a way it helped that it was
Speaker 2: right in the middle of COVID, back when everyone was
Speaker 2: very isolated, so it you know, they they did keep
Speaker 2: their distance from each other for a little while, but
Speaker 2: it made it feel less less so because of you know,
Speaker 2: this earth shattering news.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it was.
Speaker 2: It was tough. And in the podcast, you know, when
Speaker 2: they talk about it, I think they do a really
Speaker 2: great job of explaining how they navigated navigated it as
Speaker 2: much as one can. But I think you can also
Speaker 2: hear in their answers that, yeah, this is not this
Speaker 2: is not a normal thing to navigate. This is not
Speaker 2: a normal thing for any human being to process like,
Speaker 2: this is an unbelievable situation.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us exactly what the police theory is
Speaker 1: on what happened, Like behind these motor charges, we've got
Speaker 1: matt and we've got Bailey, changed what do the police
Speaker 1: think happened?
Speaker 2: So the case largely boiled down to the testimony from
Speaker 2: someone you learn all about in the podcast and how
Speaker 2: he fits into things. But simply put, police believe that
Speaker 2: Micah was murdered at his home, and they were eventually
Speaker 2: able to get him to talk, and he said that
Speaker 2: the day that Micah went missing, the day we're all
Speaker 2: activity stopped, that is the day that law enforcement believes
Speaker 2: that matt Queen and Bailey essentially lured Micah to this
Speaker 2: friend's house, and police believed that they tortured him and
Speaker 2: ultimately murdered him and dismembered his body. And law enforcement's theory,
Speaker 2: you know, this was the part of the case that
Speaker 2: I always had an issue with and sort of still do.
Speaker 2: Prosecutors don't have to prove a motive when proving a
Speaker 2: murder case, but of course every jury wants to, you know,
Speaker 2: wants to know what the motive was. I mean, everyone
Speaker 2: wants to know what the motive was. And the best
Speaker 2: they could ever come up with was that they believed
Speaker 2: that Matthew Queen had a gun stolen from his house
Speaker 2: during a New Year's party that Micah was at, and
Speaker 2: that they thought that Micah had stolen it, so they
Speaker 2: were questioning him about it, and then ultimately it resulted
Speaker 2: in his murder. I don't I always felt that that
Speaker 2: theory was quite flawed. But regardless, you know, as the
Speaker 2: detectives would say, as the prosecutor would say, that part is,
Speaker 2: that piece of it is far less important. What we
Speaker 2: really care about is the you know, the actual evidence
Speaker 2: in terms of Micah being murdered, and so their friends
Speaker 2: former friends testimony was really the main part of the evidence.
Speaker 2: But from there then law enforcement was able to see, Okay, Matthew,
Speaker 2: Queen and Bailey, both of their phones were at this
Speaker 2: individual's home at the exact time he told us that
Speaker 2: they came over with Micah and this and that, so
Speaker 2: that supported that story. And then another piece of evidence
Speaker 2: that it's quite interesting was after Bailey went missing, matt
Speaker 2: Queen dropped off some of her belongings at one of
Speaker 2: her friends homes. Like it was, it was kind of
Speaker 2: a weird thing, almost like a if you broke up
Speaker 2: with someone and you were pissed at them, so you
Speaker 2: you know, dump a bag of their clothes outside or something.
Speaker 2: You know, he just he dumped this bag of her
Speaker 2: things on her friend's doorstep. And you know, no one
Speaker 2: really knows why, but whatever. Inside this bag of her
Speaker 2: belongings was a purse, one of Bailey's purses, and there
Speaker 2: was a piece of rope tied on it, and that
Speaker 2: rope matched the rope that was also tied on the
Speaker 2: Duffel bag that Micah's arm was inside. And then that
Speaker 2: same rope was also found tied to Matt Queen's headboard,
Speaker 2: I believe. So that was an interesting.
Speaker 1: And they also had blood, didn't they They had Maca's blood.
Speaker 2: Yes, there was a small There was a very small
Speaker 2: amount of his blood found at the home of the
Speaker 2: former friend who ended up testifying, so he basically said
Speaker 2: he told the cops. After a lot of pushing from
Speaker 2: law enforcement, he eventually broke down and said, Okay, yes,
Speaker 2: I know what happened to Micah. It was at my house,
Speaker 2: in my garage, and he told them, go, you know,
Speaker 2: look in this part of the garage. You'll see a
Speaker 2: grease stain. It looks like a grease stain. Test it,
Speaker 2: and they did, and it matched to MICA's blood, but
Speaker 2: it was very small amount, which again is interesting given
Speaker 2: that Micah was supposedly dismembered in that garage, so one
Speaker 2: would expect that they would have found more.
Speaker 1: So, right, I hadn't even thought of that fact. Just
Speaker 1: one spot when you're dismembering a body, that is a
Speaker 1: lot of blood, So perhaps there were more locations involved.
Speaker 1: But you went to the trial of Matthew Queen in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, so you kind of re entered Bakersfield
Speaker 1: this story.
Speaker 3: The mom's lives.
Speaker 1: What was that like for you because your life was
Speaker 1: starting to move on and then you kind of dived
Speaker 1: straight back in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. That's an interesting question. You know, in
Speaker 2: some ways it felt like I was coming back home,
Speaker 2: you know, to where I start, you know, Bakersfields, where
Speaker 2: I started my career crime reporting and whatnot. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it was very interesting to sort of re enter the picture.
Speaker 2: But I'm so glad that I did because I just
Speaker 2: think there's something really meaningful as a journalist to get
Speaker 2: to see a case progress when you know you've been
Speaker 2: on it from the very beginning. It's not it's not
Speaker 2: a given right, It's not something you get often when
Speaker 2: you start following a case that you're going to get
Speaker 2: to be there from day one up until a trial. Actually,
Speaker 2: for me, it's quite rare that I've gotten to experience that. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: it was, and it was kind of surreal in a
Speaker 2: way to think, Wow, you know, would we be here
Speaker 2: right now if it weren't for everything the moms did?
Speaker 2: And I it's impossible to say, but my gut tells
Speaker 2: me that no, we would not have ever gotten to
Speaker 2: a trial if it weren't for what the moms did.
Speaker 1: A part of the trial I want to ask you
Speaker 1: about because obviously Bailey's still missing at this point, she
Speaker 1: doesn't get any say in any of these proceedings. And
Speaker 1: then you've got matt who actually gave evidence at his
Speaker 1: own trial and basically threw her under the bus and
Speaker 1: said she was the main perpetrad ar. She sorry, listeners
Speaker 1: cut off Micah's head. She was the you know, the
Speaker 1: main instigator. How did that go down? Both with prosecutor moms?
Speaker 1: You hearing all of that play out?
Speaker 2: So I know, I keep using the word shocking. I
Speaker 2: need to find a new word, but you know, to
Speaker 2: put it in perspective. Matthew Queen for or years I
Speaker 2: believe it was at that point had denied any involvement
Speaker 2: whatsoever in any violent crime. He had always said, you know,
Speaker 2: he had no idea what happened to Micah, was completely
Speaker 2: innocent of all the allegations. And then he gets on
Speaker 2: the witness stand, which also that was surprising just to
Speaker 2: know he was going to testify, because it's pretty rare
Speaker 2: to see a defendant testify on their own behalf, particularly
Speaker 2: in a murder case, And so for him to get
Speaker 2: up there on the stand, and then all the sudden,
Speaker 2: we all realize in the court room, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: he's telling he's about to tell a story of what
Speaker 2: happened that day. He's about to he's about to admit
Speaker 2: to this, like this is this is what is happening
Speaker 2: right now.
Speaker 4: And he goes on to tell a story of a
Speaker 4: completely different theory of the crime than we had ever
Speaker 4: heard before, and he essentially says that Micah's death was
Speaker 4: the result of him and Micah getting into an argument
Speaker 4: and Micah pulling a gun on him, and him trying
Speaker 4: to wrestle the gun out of Micah's hands, and while
Speaker 4: that was happening, he says that Bailey grabbed a forty
Speaker 4: pound dumbbell and.
Speaker 2: Dropped it on Micah's head, killing him instantly. And then
Speaker 2: he and Bailey, he said, decided that at that point
Speaker 2: they felt it was best to dispose of Mike's body,
Speaker 2: and so that they dismembered him. And he said that
Speaker 2: they didn't want Mike's body ever to be found, right,
Speaker 2: They just wanted, you know, they didn't want there to
Speaker 2: be a murder investigation. That was the intent. So it
Speaker 2: was quite an expected when his arm was found, and
Speaker 2: then also Micah's skull was later found in a bag
Speaker 2: in the river as well. But anyhow, so it was
Speaker 2: it was just, I mean, it was crazy. There's really
Speaker 2: no other way to describe it. I think. You know, obviously,
Speaker 2: it was incredibly difficult for the moms to hear, particularly
Speaker 2: Baily's mom. I mean, you know, in the courtroom, people
Speaker 2: are given strict instructions. You know, you cannot react, you
Speaker 2: do you sit there and you be quiet. Even if
Speaker 2: you're the family members of the victim, they still really
Speaker 2: don't want you having any type of emotional outburst reaction
Speaker 2: really during the court proceedings. So she just has to
Speaker 2: sit there Wyat. Yeah, I mean it's but of course,
Speaker 2: internally she's dying inside thinking. You know, first of all,
Speaker 2: she always has said that she just does not believe
Speaker 2: that Bailey was physically capable of lifting a forty pound
Speaker 2: dumbbell and lifting it high enough that she would have
Speaker 2: been able to you know. So yeah, so it was
Speaker 2: very difficult for the moms to hear this story. And
Speaker 2: then the detective, you know, who had spent so much
Speaker 2: time working on the case, he was stunned because he's like, what,
Speaker 2: you know, how many times have I given this guy
Speaker 2: the opportunity to tell me his side of the story,
Speaker 2: and he's always said, you know, he has nothing to say,
Speaker 2: that he didn't do anything, and we have it all wrong.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it was, it was. It was crazy.
Speaker 1: Matt was found guilty of murdering the second degree, So
Speaker 1: that's kind of the lesser murder charge, isn't it.
Speaker 3: What does that mean?
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I could talk about this aspect of
Speaker 2: the case for ever, because I still don't understand it myself. Secutors,
Speaker 2: the prosecution's theory was that MIC's murder was planned out premeditated,
Speaker 2: which means the only charge that fits that crime is
Speaker 2: first degree murder. But then then you have the defense,
Speaker 2: which was that this really wasn't murder at all, that
Speaker 2: this was you know that first of all, Matt Queen
Speaker 2: himself didn't do anything and it was Bailey and the
Speaker 2: theory that they explained in how Bailey acted would really
Speaker 2: be a manslaughter charge. So when the jury came back
Speaker 2: with second degree murder, which is it's murder but no premeditation, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think everyone involved, the moms, Matt Queen, the prosecutor,
Speaker 2: the defense attorney were all curious of exactly what the
Speaker 2: jury's theory of the crime was. So yeah, that was interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's all process.
Speaker 1: And then the sentence he was given with eighty six years,
Speaker 1: which kind of just say, to an Australian is huge
Speaker 1: because here almoda charges are around twenty three to twenty
Speaker 1: five years, so eighty six to me seems huge and
Speaker 1: it is huge.
Speaker 2: It's huge for us here in the States as well.
Speaker 2: And the only reason why that occurred is because he
Speaker 2: was charged with so many other crimes. MICA's murder was
Speaker 2: one of I believe it was thirty six charges total.
Speaker 2: You know, there were there was quite the variety. There
Speaker 2: were charges for making manufacturing the ghost guns, there were
Speaker 2: a lot of charges, it was, which made the trial
Speaker 2: itself long and intense. And yeah, so that is why
Speaker 2: that is where that sentence comes into play, because he
Speaker 2: was convicted of so many felonies. If he had only
Speaker 2: been convicted of the murder and second degree murder, his
Speaker 2: sentence would be fifteen years to life, and after fifteen
Speaker 2: years he'd be eligible to seek parole.
Speaker 1: I can imagine, like for MICA's family, that is a
Speaker 1: sense of closure. But then we've still got all these
Speaker 1: unanswered questions in the other two cases.
Speaker 3: You know, where's Bailey.
Speaker 1: There's no charges in her case, and then there's no
Speaker 1: charges in James's case either. I know that he was
Speaker 1: you know, deemed a separate case. But we've got these
Speaker 1: two still unanswered crimes, don't we unsolved crimes?
Speaker 2: Yes? And you know, Micah's mom, Cheryl has always really
Speaker 2: made a point to say, you know, despite us getting
Speaker 2: this sense of resolution in our son's case, we you know,
Speaker 2: our family still fully stands with the other two moms
Speaker 2: and you know this won't really be resolved until there's
Speaker 2: answers in all three cases. And with Bailey's disappearance, you know,
Speaker 2: it's all these years later she is still just missing, right,
Speaker 2: there is still no concrete evidence that says she is deceased,
Speaker 2: despite most people out there feeling like, yeah, that's you know,
Speaker 2: that seems to be the most logical explanation, and so regardless,
Speaker 2: that is going to tear a family up inside unbelievably
Speaker 2: to have to have no answers. But then you add
Speaker 2: in the complication that she was charged with murder, so
Speaker 2: you know, very very difficult for her family to have
Speaker 2: no answers. And then in James's case, you know, once
Speaker 2: it became clear that James's case was likely not directly
Speaker 2: connected to Bailey and Micah's cases, inevitably it got less attention.
Speaker 2: And then once the trial began, James's mom she was
Speaker 2: so crucial in actually no prior to the trial, once
Speaker 2: it came out that Bailey was charged with Micah's murder,
Speaker 2: James's mom was so crucial in being the glue that
Speaker 2: held them together, right, you know, she was the support
Speaker 2: system for Bailey's mom and Micah's mom, And so inevitably
Speaker 2: you have these reasons for why James's case is not
Speaker 2: getting maybe the attention that his family would want it to.
Speaker 2: And at the conclusion of Matt Queen's trial, James's mom died,
Speaker 2: told me, you know, okay, now I'm going to really
Speaker 2: go back to putting my all into my son's case
Speaker 2: and finding answers. And then very shortly after she got sick,
Speaker 2: she was diagnosed with terminal or ovarian cancer. And you know,
Speaker 2: I still can't really talk about it without getting choked up,
Speaker 2: because it's not a part of the job that I anticipated.
Speaker 2: You know, you think it's you think it's hard enough
Speaker 2: working with parents who lose their children to violence, But
Speaker 2: I never imagined working with parents who would not get
Speaker 2: to be here when to see answers, right. I never imagined,
Speaker 2: you know, James's mom would put so much work into
Speaker 2: getting some sort of resolution and then she would die
Speaker 2: without that. So it was, you know, it was horrible,
Speaker 2: and I also feel, you know, a lot of emotion
Speaker 2: in regards to who is fighting for James. Now, you know,
Speaker 2: the other moms do an amazing job, but no one's
Speaker 2: going to fight for you know, no one's going to
Speaker 2: fight the way that she was, and so it's just
Speaker 2: it's very very it's tragic. It's just yeah, it's it's
Speaker 2: a hard part of the case. And for a while
Speaker 2: when she was when we knew she didn't have much
Speaker 2: time left. It did temporarily really push me to circle
Speaker 2: back to James's case and you know, essentially try to
Speaker 2: do everything I could think of. And I made some
Speaker 2: breakthrough there with the chiropractor that you know, had always
Speaker 2: been a person of interest and he was willing to
Speaker 2: talk to me, and and then he died, so that it's, yeah,
Speaker 2: so that was kind of unbelievable. And yeah, I really,
Speaker 2: I really really hope Olivia.
Speaker 1: Can I just say you did everything, You did everything
Speaker 1: in your power in this case.
Speaker 3: This is not on me, thank you.
Speaker 2: It's you know, it's James's case. Is really it's a
Speaker 2: weird one because it seems so solvable, but yet it's not.
Speaker 2: So it's you know, it's really confusing and in that aspect,
Speaker 2: and I mean, I'm really hopeful that there will be
Speaker 2: answers in both his case and Bailey's case. And you know,
Speaker 2: after c James's mom passed without answers, you know, I
Speaker 2: don't want to think about that Bailey's family having to
Speaker 2: go through that. You know, it really is a part
Speaker 2: of the job that just it hit me so much
Speaker 2: harder than I would ever imagine, and it just doesn't
Speaker 2: seem it's just so not fair, you know, it's just
Speaker 2: so obviously it's so not fair. But it's just like
Speaker 2: how cruel can life be? Is sort of where I
Speaker 2: find myself.
Speaker 1: Well, we're in twenty twenty six when we're talking now,
Speaker 1: and it's so obvious to me that the emotion in
Speaker 1: you from covering this case for so many years, you know,
Speaker 1: starting off in twenty eighteen, that was a trial in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. What's it like for you to like
Speaker 1: look back in hindsight and see how this case is
Speaker 1: kind of shaped to your career and you your mom.
Speaker 1: Now it feels like to me that it plays a
Speaker 1: special pod in your life.
Speaker 2: This case, it absolutely does. And you know, it taught
Speaker 2: me so many things about being a reporter, and you know,
Speaker 2: the moms have inspired me so much. But to be
Speaker 2: totally honest, you know, since becoming a mom recently, it's almost,
Speaker 2: I don't know, I think even on a subconscious level,
Speaker 2: I've almost taken a step back from the case because
Speaker 2: it is so much you know, before I used to
Speaker 2: relate to the moms on a level of, oh my
Speaker 2: mom loves me this much. My mom would do this
Speaker 2: for me, that is, And I thought that that already
Speaker 2: was emotional and intense. I never anticipated what it would
Speaker 2: make me feel like to think about what the mom's
Speaker 2: have gone through, what they go through every day being
Speaker 2: a mom myself. It's almost too intense. Yeah, it really
Speaker 2: kind of is.
Speaker 1: Thank you to Olivia for joining us on this episode.
Speaker 1: You can find a link to her podcast, The Bakersfield
Speaker 1: Three in our show notes. Thanks so much for listening.
Speaker 1: I'll be back next week with another true crime conversation.