WEBVTT - Chappell Roan Can’t Come To Work Today 0:00:10.327 --> 0:00:13.047 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:13.727 --> 0:00:16.767 Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.807 --> 0:00:23.967 that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to 0:00:24.007 --> 0:00:24.527 MoMA Mia. 0:00:24.567 --> 0:00:25.047 Out loud. 0:00:25.087 --> 0:00:27.927 What women are actually talking about on Wednesday, the second 0:00:27.967 --> 0:00:30.567 of October. I'm Holly wayIn Wright and Mea and I 0:00:30.567 --> 0:00:33.007 have already been talking all morning today. We have because 0:00:33.007 --> 0:00:36.647 we watched the vice presidential debate together. For those of 0:00:36.687 --> 0:00:39.607 you who are obsessed with US politics as we are, 0:00:39.927 --> 0:00:43.007 It's going to drop tomorrow. It's with Amelia Lester, of course, telling. 0:00:42.847 --> 0:00:43.327 Us what's what? 0:00:43.407 --> 0:00:46.687 Do JD bancewin? Tim waltzwind? Will it make any difference? 0:00:47.247 --> 0:00:49.007 It drops tomorrow for our subscribers. 0:00:49.207 --> 0:00:51.567 I'm Mea Friedman and I'm Jesse Stevens. 0:00:51.767 --> 0:00:54.847 And on the show today, the biggest pop star in 0:00:54.887 --> 0:00:57.807 the world right now needs a mental health day and 0:00:57.847 --> 0:01:00.167 her fans are really not happy about it. 0:01:00.847 --> 0:01:02.367 Kids get off screens. 0:01:02.007 --> 0:01:04.047 And out into the world. But no, not like that. 0:01:04.527 --> 0:01:07.127 The who ha around a TV anchor, her son and 0:01:07.207 --> 0:01:10.207 a very long train ride. So do you want to 0:01:10.247 --> 0:01:12.687 know what all the fuss is about? The movie Substance? 0:01:12.927 --> 0:01:15.447 But you don't want to watch body parts exploding? We 0:01:15.487 --> 0:01:16.527 have got your covet. 0:01:16.807 --> 0:01:22.207 But first Israel's invasion of Lebanon. Iran's ballistic missiles shot 0:01:22.207 --> 0:01:25.167 at Israel, more innocent lives lost in what is being 0:01:25.247 --> 0:01:27.887 called the most dangerous moment in the history of the 0:01:27.927 --> 0:01:31.887 modern Middle East. Israel has launched a ground invasion in 0:01:31.927 --> 0:01:35.527 southern Lebanon, and the Israeli military has described this invasion 0:01:35.687 --> 0:01:41.367 as limited, localized and targeted raids against Hesbela. Hesbla, however, 0:01:41.607 --> 0:01:44.727 claimed that there are no troops in Lebanon, while Israeli 0:01:44.727 --> 0:01:47.447 air strikes continue in Lebanon, officials say that more than 0:01:47.487 --> 0:01:49.767 a thousand people have been killed in the past two weeks. 0:01:50.287 --> 0:01:54.967 Iran has now launched a missile strike on Israel. Hesbelah, 0:01:55.047 --> 0:01:58.167 recognized as a terrorist group, has been trained and armed 0:01:58.207 --> 0:02:02.607 by Iran for four decades, and now Iran's direct involvement 0:02:02.847 --> 0:02:05.847 is seen as a major escalation of a war now 0:02:06.007 --> 0:02:10.407 being fought on multiple fronts. On Tuesday, Israeli Prime Minister 0:02:10.567 --> 0:02:14.687 Benjamin Ettnyahu told his security cabinet Iran made a big 0:02:14.727 --> 0:02:17.447 mistake this evening and it will pay for it. Whoever 0:02:17.487 --> 0:02:21.327 attacks us, we will attack them. Look, what we know 0:02:21.527 --> 0:02:23.967 is that this war has escalated, and every moment this 0:02:24.047 --> 0:02:28.287 conflict goes on, we see more loss of innocent civilian life. 0:02:28.367 --> 0:02:31.207 For more on this fast moving crisis, listen to The Quickie, 0:02:31.247 --> 0:02:41.047 our daily news podcast. There's a link in our show notes. 0:02:42.327 --> 0:02:44.687 Twenty six year old pop star Chapel Rone is having 0:02:44.727 --> 0:02:47.087 the best and worst few months of her life, and 0:02:47.167 --> 0:02:49.567 things seem to be picking up speed in both directions. 0:02:49.967 --> 0:02:53.687 We spoke about her pushback video that went viral about 0:02:53.887 --> 0:02:56.487 how her fans were too much and she was telling 0:02:56.487 --> 0:02:59.327 them to back off when she's in public, and now 0:02:59.487 --> 0:03:03.207 she has canceled three festival appearances. She shared a statement 0:03:03.247 --> 0:03:05.927 on social media saying, I apologize to people who've been 0:03:05.967 --> 0:03:08.727 waiting to see me in New York and DC this weekend. 0:03:08.767 --> 0:03:11.207 At all things go, but I am unable to perform. 0:03:11.247 --> 0:03:13.687 Things have gotten overwhelming over the past few weeks and 0:03:13.767 --> 0:03:16.047 I'm really feeling it. I feel pressure to prioritize a 0:03:16.047 --> 0:03:17.927 lot of things right now, and I need a few 0:03:17.967 --> 0:03:20.567 days to prioritize my health. I want to be present 0:03:20.607 --> 0:03:23.327 when I perform and give the best show possible. Thank 0:03:23.367 --> 0:03:27.447 you for understanding, be back soon. In the last two years, 0:03:28.087 --> 0:03:30.887 chapel Ron that's her stage name, her actual name is 0:03:30.967 --> 0:03:34.847 Kaylie Rose Amstaltz. She's done one hundred and eighty seven concerts, 0:03:35.087 --> 0:03:37.527 with one hundred and four this year alone. I went 0:03:37.527 --> 0:03:39.847 back and looked, because you know how Taylor Swift is 0:03:39.887 --> 0:03:43.447 doing a big eras tour, Chapel Rone is doing a 0:03:43.487 --> 0:03:46.247 different thing where she performs at lots of different festivals. 0:03:46.247 --> 0:03:48.887 She performs like her three songs. Sometimes she headlines, sometimes 0:03:48.887 --> 0:03:51.927 she's just one of many acts, and so it's kind 0:03:51.967 --> 0:03:54.927 of a way of reaching lots and lots of people, 0:03:55.167 --> 0:03:58.367 and you know, often the video, the social from it 0:03:58.407 --> 0:04:00.487 will go on YouTube and it'll go viral on social. 0:04:01.207 --> 0:04:03.447 She's really blown up in these past few months. Her 0:04:03.447 --> 0:04:06.687 album Midwestern Princess's top charts and singles like Hot to Go, 0:04:06.767 --> 0:04:11.007 Good Luck Babe, and Pink Pony Club have come anthems 0:04:11.007 --> 0:04:13.647 and won all these awards. She performed at the Grammys 0:04:13.647 --> 0:04:16.967 a few weeks ago and won Best New Artist. And 0:04:17.727 --> 0:04:19.847 also they've been in the last few weeks a bunch 0:04:19.887 --> 0:04:22.447 of big cover stories that have dropped in interviews, like 0:04:22.527 --> 0:04:25.127 a cub story of Rolling Stone where she's sort of 0:04:25.167 --> 0:04:29.447 spoken in depth about how she's finding fame and even 0:04:29.487 --> 0:04:31.447 though she's been a performer for a really long time. 0:04:31.807 --> 0:04:34.087 This level of vile fame and how sudden it is 0:04:34.407 --> 0:04:36.127 has been a bit of a shock to her system. 0:04:37.087 --> 0:04:40.647 So what's changed over the last few weeks is that 0:04:40.767 --> 0:04:43.527 she's also found herself because of these interviews in a 0:04:43.607 --> 0:04:46.927 controversy when it comes to the US election, because in 0:04:47.367 --> 0:04:50.567 one of the interviews, she made some remarks about refusing 0:04:50.687 --> 0:04:54.447 to publicly endorse a candidate in the US election. Taylor 0:04:54.487 --> 0:04:58.567 Swift recently came out and endorsed Kamala Harris, but she said, 0:04:58.607 --> 0:05:01.127 I have so many issues with our government in every way, 0:05:01.247 --> 0:05:05.247 and those remarks really blew up overnight, and a lot 0:05:05.327 --> 0:05:08.247 of people were furious with her and accused her of 0:05:08.247 --> 0:05:10.807 supporting Donald Trump because she said she wouldn't endorse Kamala 0:05:11.167 --> 0:05:13.887 And so then she had to clarify, which she did 0:05:13.887 --> 0:05:16.927 in a series of videos in her stories on Instagram 0:05:17.247 --> 0:05:19.447 that she would be voting for Kamala, but that an 0:05:19.527 --> 0:05:22.887 endorsement like Taylor made was different and she wasn't comfortable 0:05:22.887 --> 0:05:25.927 with that level of alignment because there were democratic policies 0:05:25.927 --> 0:05:29.607 that she didn't agree with. Here's a little bit of 0:05:29.647 --> 0:05:32.647 one of those videos where she was sort of becoming 0:05:32.647 --> 0:05:36.487 increasingly angry and upset with commenters who were criticizing her. 0:05:36.807 --> 0:05:40.607 I just woke up and to like people just skewing 0:05:40.647 --> 0:05:46.047 it even more. Doorsing and voting are completely different. I 0:05:46.087 --> 0:05:48.407 don't agree with a lot of what is going on 0:05:48.487 --> 0:05:53.127 with policies, like obviously fucked the policies of the right, 0:05:53.367 --> 0:05:55.927 but also fuck some of the policies on the left. 0:05:56.607 --> 0:06:00.127 That's why I can't endorse, That's why I can't like 0:06:00.807 --> 0:06:04.447 put my entire name, in my entire project behind one. 0:06:04.847 --> 0:06:08.087 So in these videos, she sort of would finish making 0:06:08.127 --> 0:06:09.847 her point and then she'd come back to try and 0:06:10.127 --> 0:06:13.727 clarify it again. And we've seen this before in the past, 0:06:13.807 --> 0:06:17.367 maybe some of us have even tried it in video form, 0:06:17.407 --> 0:06:20.687 where you start brawling with your commenters and you start, 0:06:21.287 --> 0:06:23.647 you know, trying to explain yourself and explain yourself, and 0:06:23.647 --> 0:06:26.887 then they come back and back and it's hiding to nowhere, really. 0:06:27.087 --> 0:06:29.647 And it was a day or so after these videos 0:06:30.087 --> 0:06:33.607 were posted that she canceled these concerts. But Jesse, the 0:06:33.727 --> 0:06:37.447 response to the cancelation itself has been really interesting because 0:06:37.487 --> 0:06:40.527 she's clearly someone who is struggling with fame. She wears 0:06:40.567 --> 0:06:44.367 her heart on her sleeve. She is bipolar according to her, 0:06:44.527 --> 0:06:48.287 and has struggles with mental health, so you would think 0:06:48.327 --> 0:06:51.287 that people would be understanding when she canceled these concerts, 0:06:51.327 --> 0:06:51.927 but that's not what. 0:06:51.847 --> 0:06:57.967 Happened, especially a generation who is more literate and compassionate 0:06:58.087 --> 0:07:00.847 about mental health than I would think any other generation, 0:07:01.527 --> 0:07:05.207 until they lose their tickets, until the festival that they 0:07:05.247 --> 0:07:07.767 wanted to go to on the weekend doesn't have chapel ron. 0:07:07.887 --> 0:07:10.087 So people were then shouting at her, not just about 0:07:10.527 --> 0:07:12.927 who she supported or didn't support her endorsement, but they 0:07:12.927 --> 0:07:14.807 were shouting at her about canceling the concept. 0:07:14.927 --> 0:07:17.647 So there are viral tiktoks that have millions and millions 0:07:17.687 --> 0:07:19.567 of views that have been popping up on my feed 0:07:19.647 --> 0:07:22.687 all week that say things like, ma'am, you canceled your 0:07:22.687 --> 0:07:25.407 set at a festival because you are stressed. You have 0:07:25.527 --> 0:07:28.807 been famous for maybe four months. Justin Bieber endured that 0:07:28.887 --> 0:07:32.687 stress you're encountering for his whole life. I mean footnote 0:07:32.687 --> 0:07:35.567 that Justin Bieber doesn't appear to really perform anymore, also 0:07:35.647 --> 0:07:39.167 great himself. The other sentiments were sort of like, wish 0:07:39.247 --> 0:07:41.527 I had the privilege to cancel on my job commitments 0:07:41.527 --> 0:07:44.847 when I'm not feeling one hundred percent. Unfortunately, i'd be homeless. 0:07:45.247 --> 0:07:47.327 No one else in the world can cancel work because 0:07:47.327 --> 0:07:48.047 they're stressed. 0:07:48.687 --> 0:07:49.367 That's not true. 0:07:49.447 --> 0:07:50.607 That's absolutely not true. 0:07:50.647 --> 0:07:52.927 And another comment that was getting a lot of traction 0:07:53.247 --> 0:07:56.807 was therapy has just given everyone permission to prioritize their 0:07:56.847 --> 0:08:00.367 mental health, to just be selfish and mean to everyone else. 0:08:01.047 --> 0:08:05.047 So we think that we've made a lot of progress 0:08:05.367 --> 0:08:11.087 when it comes to understanding the whole that fame takes 0:08:11.087 --> 0:08:14.007 on people, and also that you might need a mental 0:08:14.007 --> 0:08:17.607 health day, Like in everyday life, there are situations where 0:08:17.607 --> 0:08:19.367 we would like to think that if someone put the 0:08:19.407 --> 0:08:21.407 hand up and said, I actually can't come to work more, 0:08:21.447 --> 0:08:23.607 I need a mental health day, then we'd be way 0:08:23.607 --> 0:08:27.127 more understanding than we were a generation ago. But this 0:08:27.247 --> 0:08:31.727 is symptomatic of how we see Roan as a product 0:08:31.767 --> 0:08:34.967 and not a person, like I paid for you, and 0:08:35.007 --> 0:08:37.567 now you're not going to be there, and how about 0:08:37.607 --> 0:08:39.727 my hotel and how about my outfit? And in fact, 0:08:39.807 --> 0:08:42.207 I think that frustration is probably valid, like I would 0:08:42.207 --> 0:08:45.887 be really upset, but to direct it, I keep thinking 0:08:46.607 --> 0:08:49.367 how she must be feeling right now, what it must 0:08:49.407 --> 0:08:53.687 take for an artist with her team and with her fame, 0:08:53.927 --> 0:08:57.007 to not turn up to a show is enormous And 0:08:57.047 --> 0:08:59.407 in fact, this one, the festival that she's pulled out of, 0:08:59.847 --> 0:09:01.527 was just a day before and a lot of people 0:09:01.527 --> 0:09:03.727 are going, you should have given us more notice. To me, 0:09:03.847 --> 0:09:06.087 that says she really wanted to do it, and she 0:09:06.207 --> 0:09:09.247 realized that she couldn't, and that I feel an enormous 0:09:09.247 --> 0:09:10.247 amount of compassion for that. 0:09:10.567 --> 0:09:13.847 She's such an interesting study in overnight fame because it 0:09:13.887 --> 0:09:16.327 is like literal overnight fame, as you say, She's been 0:09:16.327 --> 0:09:18.727 doing it a long time, but her fame has accelerated 0:09:18.767 --> 0:09:21.447 like a rocket, and probably a lot of these bookings 0:09:21.807 --> 0:09:24.607 were in the diary before she was who she is 0:09:24.687 --> 0:09:27.447 right now. Right because Chapel Rone could fill a stadium 0:09:27.447 --> 0:09:29.247 on her own now, she doesn't really need to be 0:09:29.287 --> 0:09:32.167 doing festival shows. But I'm sure that a lot of 0:09:32.207 --> 0:09:34.247 these commitments were a long time ago, and she is 0:09:34.287 --> 0:09:39.207 in literally a cyclone of attention and she's trying to 0:09:39.207 --> 0:09:40.647 figure out how to deal with it. One of the 0:09:40.687 --> 0:09:44.687 things that I think is really interesting is rock stars, 0:09:44.727 --> 0:09:47.407 pop stars, musicians, whatever you want to call them, have 0:09:47.527 --> 0:09:49.967 always flaked out of shows, right and usually they would 0:09:50.007 --> 0:09:52.047 just tell you, oh, they've got a cold, they're dealing 0:09:52.047 --> 0:09:54.687 with the chest infection at the moment, or whatever. When 0:09:54.727 --> 0:09:56.367 it could have been mental health, it could have been addiction, 0:09:56.487 --> 0:09:59.127 it could have been whatever. The thing with the Chapel 0:09:59.207 --> 0:10:02.527 Roane is she is trying to be still the person 0:10:02.607 --> 0:10:05.447 that she probably has always been, who is somebody very honest, 0:10:05.567 --> 0:10:08.447 very authentic, very wearing my heart on my sleeve. So 0:10:08.567 --> 0:10:11.047 the way, even the way she talks about politics in 0:10:11.087 --> 0:10:14.007 that whole fuck the left, fuck the right, I'm trying 0:10:14.007 --> 0:10:17.767 to explain to you, this nuanced critical thinking piece is 0:10:17.807 --> 0:10:22.087 something that any really professional, high level artist with a 0:10:22.127 --> 0:10:24.527 team around them would be told. Do not do that, 0:10:24.807 --> 0:10:28.767 you know, either say nothing or say something definitive, but 0:10:28.927 --> 0:10:31.647 don't start trying to actually talk like a real person 0:10:31.687 --> 0:10:35.207 and start a real conversation with your nuance because that's 0:10:35.247 --> 0:10:37.967 not gonna go anywhere good. And so it's almost like 0:10:38.047 --> 0:10:40.967 you've given too much of yourself, You've handed over this 0:10:41.007 --> 0:10:43.967 pound of flesh. So she's telling the truth about why 0:10:43.967 --> 0:10:46.007 she's not turning up to these festivals, which is I 0:10:46.087 --> 0:10:48.847 am so overwhelmed. I can't handle it. I don't think 0:10:48.887 --> 0:10:50.847 I can do it. I feel so vulnerable out there 0:10:50.887 --> 0:10:52.847 I've got to be happy, I've got to perform. I'm 0:10:52.887 --> 0:10:57.687 an arms reach away from everybody, and she can't do it. 0:10:57.887 --> 0:11:00.367 In the old world, her team would have just said, 0:11:00.527 --> 0:11:02.447 Chapel's got flu. 0:11:02.727 --> 0:11:03.367 You know what I mean. 0:11:03.567 --> 0:11:06.247 She posted a story as well, not a post, which 0:11:06.287 --> 0:11:09.247 means that people can't really respond, and she's close common 0:11:09.567 --> 0:11:13.127 and she's close comments, which I think tells us something. 0:11:13.567 --> 0:11:16.447 And I was also thinking to the people who were like, 0:11:16.887 --> 0:11:18.567 turn up, you had a job to do, the rest 0:11:18.567 --> 0:11:20.327 of us are doing our jobs. I mean, that is 0:11:20.407 --> 0:11:22.567 just such an unempathetic way to live your life. But 0:11:23.127 --> 0:11:26.127 I keep thinking about Avicy. So his real name was 0:11:26.287 --> 0:11:29.807 Tim Bergling, and if you have seen the documentary of 0:11:29.847 --> 0:11:32.807 Eachy True Stories, you'll see that he had a meteorite 0:11:33.007 --> 0:11:35.647 rise to fame and he started doing maybe fifty shows 0:11:35.647 --> 0:11:38.127 a year, and I think in the final year he 0:11:38.167 --> 0:11:40.527 did about two hundred and fifty shows. And he has 0:11:40.887 --> 0:11:44.047 infections and like his body is falling apart. And it's 0:11:44.087 --> 0:11:48.047 not just the performing, it's the whole, like it's what. 0:11:47.967 --> 0:11:51.447 Goes with it, it's what travel. And also festivals, you know, 0:11:51.607 --> 0:11:54.447 there's an enormous amount of output there. You're backstage with 0:11:54.487 --> 0:11:57.327 a whole lot of other people credibly and like it's 0:11:57.367 --> 0:12:01.767 not Taylor Swift and a very well organized machine world. 0:12:01.967 --> 0:12:06.367 Burgling in the end died by suicide and was such 0:12:06.447 --> 0:12:10.527 an incredible artist. But we get these lessons. You watch 0:12:10.647 --> 0:12:13.367 that and you see how me you started by saying, 0:12:13.407 --> 0:12:15.807 it's the best time of Rome's life and the worst. 0:12:16.727 --> 0:12:18.727 I don't think there is any best for Rone right now. 0:12:18.807 --> 0:12:20.807 Maybe in the future she'll see it, but I think 0:12:20.847 --> 0:12:23.047 she's living in hell. I think she is hating it. 0:12:23.247 --> 0:12:26.967 I think it's it's objectively the best time in her 0:12:26.967 --> 0:12:30.327 life because as a performer or an artist, this is 0:12:30.327 --> 0:12:33.367 what you dream of. You dream of Elton John calling 0:12:33.407 --> 0:12:36.287 you up, and every pop star shouting you. 0:12:36.247 --> 0:12:39.687 Out and your songs mean to them. 0:12:39.567 --> 0:12:42.927 And winning awards and going on stage to all these 0:12:42.927 --> 0:12:46.167 people and everyone warning you and the cover of Rolling Stone, 0:12:46.247 --> 0:12:49.807 like all of these things are these objective milestones in 0:12:49.887 --> 0:12:54.007 what it means to be a successful artist in the 0:12:54.087 --> 0:12:57.687 music industry. And I think that's probably what makes it harder, 0:12:57.927 --> 0:13:00.927 because it's funny. Claire's got this podcast called but Are 0:13:00.967 --> 0:13:04.247 You Happy? When often the objective measures of success don't 0:13:04.247 --> 0:13:07.087 bring you the happiness, and they actually bring with them 0:13:07.087 --> 0:13:08.967 a whole lot of shit that you never thought about. 0:13:09.527 --> 0:13:12.127 And what's so clear to us sitting back, not saying 0:13:12.127 --> 0:13:16.487 that we're famous, but we over a long period of time, 0:13:16.847 --> 0:13:20.927 as our public profiles have grown, we have learned what 0:13:20.967 --> 0:13:23.927 you can and can't do and what is a highway 0:13:24.127 --> 0:13:27.287 to poor mental health. And it's really unfortunate because sometimes 0:13:27.367 --> 0:13:29.927 you want to try and have a conversation and your 0:13:30.007 --> 0:13:33.327 humanity is being questioned, or your decisions have been questioned, 0:13:33.527 --> 0:13:35.127 or people are saying lies about you, and you want 0:13:35.127 --> 0:13:38.167 to push back or explain yourself better, and you think 0:13:38.167 --> 0:13:40.487 it's going to end well, and you have to do 0:13:40.527 --> 0:13:42.567 it a lot of times before you realize it's actually 0:13:42.647 --> 0:13:44.007 not going to end well. It's not going to end 0:13:44.047 --> 0:13:45.367 well for you, and you're not going to change the 0:13:45.407 --> 0:13:48.287 mind like she wasn't changing the mind of anyone who 0:13:48.367 --> 0:13:49.687 was slagging her off. 0:13:49.847 --> 0:13:52.487 So you think that those videos have contributed to the point. 0:13:52.487 --> 0:13:55.767 One hundred percent and to play Devil's advocate, and this 0:13:55.887 --> 0:13:57.727 sounds like I'm victim blaming and I'm not at all. 0:13:57.847 --> 0:14:01.727 But the people who are like, here's our contract. I 0:14:01.967 --> 0:14:05.767 pay for my ticket and I expect you to show 0:14:05.887 --> 0:14:08.727 up and I expect you to do what's required so 0:14:08.727 --> 0:14:11.647 that you can and show up, whether it's not staying 0:14:11.727 --> 0:14:14.767 up all night and partying and that's clearly not what 0:14:14.767 --> 0:14:18.007 she's doing, or not doing things that are going to 0:14:18.047 --> 0:14:21.687 make you mentally unwell so that you have to then 0:14:21.927 --> 0:14:25.927 take time off. So I guess I can understand because 0:14:25.927 --> 0:14:27.447 we all look at it and go, oh, Chapa, what 0:14:27.527 --> 0:14:30.007 are you doing? Like just stop, just stop, just step away, 0:14:30.087 --> 0:14:32.447 just step away. And this idea of her team should 0:14:32.487 --> 0:14:36.447 protect her when you become that famous that fast. Not 0:14:36.567 --> 0:14:40.327 everybody has a tree pain. That's Taylor Swift's famous publicist 0:14:40.887 --> 0:14:44.487 and the right people around them. I mean, interestingly, Travis 0:14:44.527 --> 0:14:47.247 Kelcey even this week just sacked his whole publicity team. 0:14:47.807 --> 0:14:51.847 So sometimes the people you have around you aren't equipped. 0:14:51.687 --> 0:14:54.567 Well and they're probably scrambling like this has been so fast, 0:14:54.647 --> 0:14:56.487 and she's no one's fault. The people that she has 0:14:56.527 --> 0:14:59.407 around her are probably people she really trusts and knows. Right. 0:14:59.847 --> 0:15:02.127 But the thing is is that the sad thing that 0:15:02.167 --> 0:15:04.647 has to happen is that really for her to protect 0:15:04.687 --> 0:15:07.047 her mental health, and not that we necessarily know this, 0:15:07.127 --> 0:15:09.527 but is a wall needs to go up between her 0:15:09.527 --> 0:15:13.207 and her fans, and she probably hates that idea everybody does, 0:15:13.247 --> 0:15:14.687 you know, Like she wants to be able to jump 0:15:14.727 --> 0:15:16.487 on live and say this is what I think about this, 0:15:16.607 --> 0:15:19.127 and you guys know the real me and all those things. 0:15:19.167 --> 0:15:21.607 I'm sure that's very important to her because she's an artist, 0:15:21.727 --> 0:15:24.887 and she's a brilliant artist, and she's clearly sensitive, and 0:15:24.887 --> 0:15:27.487 she's clearly got you know, she's been very open about 0:15:27.487 --> 0:15:30.727 her mental health, and unfortunately, one of the things she's 0:15:30.727 --> 0:15:32.327 going to need to do to protect herself if she 0:15:32.327 --> 0:15:34.607 wants to keep on doing this is put walls up right, 0:15:34.607 --> 0:15:37.647 like between her and her audience, her and her fans, 0:15:37.967 --> 0:15:40.487 her and what events she will do, won't do, where 0:15:40.527 --> 0:15:42.807 she can travel to, what the schedule's got to be, like, 0:15:42.887 --> 0:15:46.367 what time she needs. Like anytime you talk to anyone 0:15:47.007 --> 0:15:49.367 that level famous, whether you listen to interviews with them 0:15:49.407 --> 0:15:50.887 or you hear them talking on but are You Happy 0:15:50.927 --> 0:15:53.287 or shows like that, they'll say I had to learn 0:15:53.367 --> 0:15:56.247 what I needed to do to protect my mental health 0:15:56.567 --> 0:15:58.167 to be able to keep doing the thing I love. 0:15:58.207 --> 0:16:02.007 And it's that unpopular word boundaries. Yes, and Roan, And 0:16:02.047 --> 0:16:03.727 I'm not saying this in any way to blame her 0:16:03.727 --> 0:16:05.927 but I think that what we're literally seeing in real 0:16:06.007 --> 0:16:09.927 time with how she's grappling with fame and this believable 0:16:09.967 --> 0:16:13.567 attention being the person she is, she's working that out 0:16:13.567 --> 0:16:15.127 in real time, and it's really hard. 0:16:15.567 --> 0:16:18.767 I agree with everything that you say, but I would 0:16:18.807 --> 0:16:22.007 add that maybe what we're seeing with trying to convince 0:16:22.567 --> 0:16:24.647 her fans and going back and whatever, which is a 0:16:24.647 --> 0:16:27.127 strategy that we know doesn't necessarily work. But I can 0:16:27.167 --> 0:16:29.527 see and feel her desperation and I have felt it 0:16:29.567 --> 0:16:32.567 to just be understood. I think that's why people are artists, 0:16:32.567 --> 0:16:34.847 to try and be understood. I wonder if this is 0:16:34.887 --> 0:16:38.447 all symptomatic rather than a cause. If she is, and 0:16:38.487 --> 0:16:41.287 she's said before that she suffers from severe depression and 0:16:41.367 --> 0:16:46.367 bipolar two these preceded her face all of these stresses, 0:16:46.847 --> 0:16:49.207 would you be really difficult? 0:16:49.727 --> 0:16:51.007 But I worry. 0:16:50.807 --> 0:16:54.367 About us saying, and not just about Rome, but about 0:16:54.367 --> 0:16:56.967 people in our own lives when we go, you know, 0:16:57.007 --> 0:16:59.967 they're really struggling. And I've seen it, and I've been 0:17:00.087 --> 0:17:02.487 at the receiving end of it too, Like you know, 0:17:02.567 --> 0:17:05.247 she's really depressed, but she's not exercising every day, and 0:17:05.407 --> 0:17:07.887 she just ate a little bit better, and you know, 0:17:08.047 --> 0:17:11.087 I don't think that she's seeing her psychologist enough, which yes, 0:17:11.207 --> 0:17:15.047 But the nature of mental health is that, like the 0:17:15.127 --> 0:17:17.567 spiral is part of it, If that makes sense. 0:17:17.607 --> 0:17:18.687 I don't want mental health. 0:17:18.887 --> 0:17:21.807 We talk about it as an illness, but there's also 0:17:21.887 --> 0:17:25.807 an element of it being your responsibility, which we don't 0:17:25.807 --> 0:17:27.487 do with other illness. 0:17:27.487 --> 0:17:29.367 Had a broken leg? Yeah, So the thing is is 0:17:29.367 --> 0:17:31.127 the people who are disappointed that she's not going to 0:17:31.127 --> 0:17:33.407 be at the festival that they are going to, although 0:17:33.407 --> 0:17:35.327 they're going to see lots of other people, they'll get 0:17:35.367 --> 0:17:37.407 over it. And if she had broken a leg and 0:17:37.447 --> 0:17:39.527 it was like Chapel Rone isn't performing today because she'd 0:17:39.527 --> 0:17:41.647 broken her leg, they would also be disappointed, but they'd 0:17:41.647 --> 0:17:42.127 get over it. 0:17:42.207 --> 0:17:42.527 Yeah. 0:17:42.527 --> 0:17:44.647 But what if she'd have broken a leg because she 0:17:44.847 --> 0:17:48.527 was skydiving or skateboarding or skiing. 0:17:48.887 --> 0:17:50.887 Is that what we're saying that she's doing no life? 0:17:50.927 --> 0:17:51.927 I no, I'm just driving. 0:17:52.207 --> 0:17:54.367 For example, I was at a rider's festival a little 0:17:54.367 --> 0:17:56.687 while ago in quite a remote location. Took a really 0:17:56.767 --> 0:17:59.527 long time to get there, and I went to do 0:17:59.647 --> 0:18:01.927 this panel and before we started the panel, someone came 0:18:01.927 --> 0:18:03.567 over and said, there was meant to be four of 0:18:03.567 --> 0:18:05.407 you and now there's three of you. One of the 0:18:05.407 --> 0:18:08.727 people on the panel can't do it. And I was like, yeah, yeah, 0:18:08.767 --> 0:18:11.447 no worries. And in fact, to be completely honest, i'd 0:18:11.447 --> 0:18:13.647 had food poisoning that night and I had a little 0:18:13.687 --> 0:18:16.487 I just went, oh, they can't, like I've been throwing 0:18:16.607 --> 0:18:20.087 up da da da, And they said this person had 0:18:20.087 --> 0:18:23.327 a panic attack and hasn't had that before. And I 0:18:23.447 --> 0:18:27.327 thought about it, and I went, imagine traveling all the 0:18:27.367 --> 0:18:29.767 way to this remote location to speak on a panel. 0:18:30.207 --> 0:18:34.247 Imagine the distress, how much pain you must be in. 0:18:34.247 --> 0:18:37.567 And anyone who's experienced of your depression or panic attacks 0:18:37.607 --> 0:18:38.247 knows that. 0:18:38.167 --> 0:18:40.407 There is nothing more debilitating. 0:18:40.647 --> 0:18:42.607 It's your head. And when your head's not working, you 0:18:42.647 --> 0:18:44.847 feel like you can't do anything right. I think that 0:18:44.887 --> 0:18:52.167 there's a lack of compassion in this story. 0:18:53.687 --> 0:18:55.967 You know how we keep being told that kids need 0:18:56.007 --> 0:18:58.767 to get off their phones and touch some grass. Well, 0:18:58.807 --> 0:19:01.287 good luck with that, because depending on how far away 0:19:01.287 --> 0:19:04.007 from your watchful eye that grass is, you might just 0:19:04.087 --> 0:19:06.807 find yourself in a pile of pooh. That is the 0:19:06.887 --> 0:19:11.167 experience of British TV presenter Allsop, who's at the center 0:19:11.207 --> 0:19:13.487 of a big ding dong in the UK because she 0:19:13.687 --> 0:19:16.327 thought that her fifteen year old son could do with 0:19:16.367 --> 0:19:19.407 a bit more independence. Now you probably don't know who 0:19:19.487 --> 0:19:21.447 Kirsty is, and for the purposes of this story, you 0:19:21.487 --> 0:19:24.447 don't need to. She presents a lot of UK TV shows, 0:19:24.487 --> 0:19:28.287 notably the ones about houses like Location, Location, Location, and Love. 0:19:28.167 --> 0:19:28.847 It or List It. 0:19:29.287 --> 0:19:31.047 She lives in a fancy bit of London and she 0:19:31.167 --> 0:19:35.087 sent her son Oscar Hercules off traveling with a friend 0:19:35.167 --> 0:19:37.327 on a train. Over the course of a few weeks 0:19:37.327 --> 0:19:42.967 in the northern summer, he traveled to Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam, Berlin, Munich, Marseille, Toulouse, 0:19:43.007 --> 0:19:46.087 Barcelona and Madrid with a sixteen year old friend. We 0:19:46.167 --> 0:19:49.607 call this in Europe interrailing. You get a ticket, you 0:19:49.647 --> 0:19:51.847 can jump on and off trains and you go around Europe. 0:19:51.847 --> 0:19:52.367 Did you do that? 0:19:52.887 --> 0:19:53.007 No? 0:19:53.207 --> 0:19:54.367 Okay, I did not do that. 0:19:55.287 --> 0:19:57.047