Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mama Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and
Speaker 2: waters that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 1: For me, happiness is like it's like the absence of stress.
Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to that.
Speaker 2: Are you happy? The podcast that asks the questions you've
Speaker 2: always wanted to know from the people who appear to
Speaker 2: have it all. Josh Thomas is a comedian, actor, and
Speaker 2: writer who wrote and starred in the beloved ABC series
Speaker 2: Please Like Me. He is also he admits poor with
Speaker 2: his time management.
Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't come to this interview today.
Speaker 4: How is it?
Speaker 1: Lunch starts at half an hour, leads I didn't know
Speaker 1: what was happening, they told me, But I needn't know
Speaker 1: what's happening.
Speaker 2: I really wanted to invite Josh on the podcast because
Speaker 2: he's experienced enormous career success on television and on stage
Speaker 2: and in Hollywood. But the subject matter of what he
Speaker 2: creates is steeped in the uncomfortable complexities of life. He's
Speaker 2: portrayed suicide on screen, grief, dysfunctional relationships, abortion, He explores
Speaker 2: neuroses and neurodiversity, and sexuality and disability, and he does
Speaker 2: it with humor and compassion, but I haven't really heard
Speaker 2: Josh Thomas asked about him. Here's my chat with Josh Thomas.
Speaker 2: Josh Thomas, you are one of Australia's best known comedians.
Speaker 2: You're also an actor, writer, creator, showrunner and right now
Speaker 2: you're in the midst of the Melbourne Comedy Festival with
Speaker 2: your show. Let's tidy up about how your brain struggles
Speaker 2: to do the small stuff. You're off and on stage
Speaker 2: and on our TV screens and in our phones, and
Speaker 2: you're funny and you're very clever and very creative. But
Speaker 2: putting aside all of that stuff, we can see what
Speaker 2: is your life like right now day to day.
Speaker 1: So last week I've been losing my voice a little bit.
Speaker 1: That's very scary because that's what I do for a living.
Speaker 1: So mostly I've been laying in this room that I'm
Speaker 1: in now, and I have two like very like remedial
Speaker 1: looking steamers, and they just like steam up the room
Speaker 1: and it gets very very hot in you and I
Speaker 1: just lay in here like like and then a bay
Speaker 1: Marie like a little dumpling rolling around in a bay marine.
Speaker 1: I've really been liking it, to be honest and then
Speaker 1: I go and do my show and then I tell
Speaker 1: everyone that I can't go out because I'm losing my voice,
Speaker 1: and then I do Yeah.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: And when you're in Melbourne, do you stay with friends,
Speaker 2: stay with family or are you.
Speaker 3: In a hotel?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: What do you do when you're back in Melbourne.
Speaker 1: I'm from Melbourne, but I'm in a hotel at the moment. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm in a sad, reary hotel.
Speaker 3: Shouldn't you be it like.
Speaker 2: The Crown or something. Aren't you famous enough that you
Speaker 2: stay in all the fancy hotels?
Speaker 1: I think I should send some emails about the truth is.
Speaker 1: The truth is I've been I've been onto her since
Speaker 1: so from October till September, I'll be on to her.
Speaker 1: I'll be home for maybe eight days in Ali for
Speaker 1: the whole time. And I just actually like, this hotel
Speaker 1: is sad, but like posh hotels to me, don't they
Speaker 1: have no they feel nothing, like, no character, They have
Speaker 1: no joy, but like the fact that they're posh and
Speaker 1: like all the stuff that you pay for really doesn't
Speaker 1: make me that happy anymore. They just feel like very
Speaker 1: small actually, and there's no washer or dry hour in them.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, that's good import to me enjoy.
Speaker 1: On month six, it's just being able to wash my clothes.
Speaker 2: Your current show is about the kind of brain you have,
Speaker 2: and you've been diagnosed with ADHD and autism, and it
Speaker 2: was actually by making the TV shows you've created that
Speaker 2: audiences watched and almost diagnosed you with autism. What in
Speaker 2: hindsight were the hallmarks of that? Like, what do you
Speaker 2: look back on and think, oh, yeah, now that I've
Speaker 2: got that diagnosis, that was probably autism.
Speaker 1: I mean the really obvious ones, like the most present ones,
Speaker 1: the ones that like you know, like you know, the
Speaker 1: psychiatrist has decided, like at forty seconds. And I don't
Speaker 1: like eye contact, Well that's not true. People think autisty
Speaker 1: people don't like eye contact. Eye contact to autistic people
Speaker 1: feel very very intense. So I I love eye contact.
Speaker 1: And if I'm talking to somebody that I feel really
Speaker 1: safe with, that I'm really comfortable with, then eye contact
Speaker 1: can be great. But generally it's like just very daunting
Speaker 1: and it just feels like, I don't know how to
Speaker 1: explain it. It's just like a physiological reaction to it.
Speaker 1: It's just a bit extreme, like you were doing something
Speaker 1: a bit dangerous and you can see that when you
Speaker 1: see me talk for anybody, my accent is like very
Speaker 1: autistic or to see people have like weird accents. And
Speaker 1: I don't think that most people are in their head
Speaker 1: as much as I am. In social situations. A big
Speaker 1: thing is sort of not really understand I think a
Speaker 1: very good instinct for social interactions or like understanding other
Speaker 1: people's ill to see people generally aren't very good to
Speaker 1: understand about the people are coming from. And I mean
Speaker 1: that's like such a generalization. I feel like people will
Speaker 1: be mad at me anytime I'd say anything that autistic
Speaker 1: people are. But and then you have to do like
Speaker 1: a lot of processing to think about why everybody did
Speaker 1: the stuff that they did. And I'm always just trying
Speaker 1: to figure out I'm always trying to put together the
Speaker 1: puzzle of why people are doing what people do, and like,
Speaker 1: at this age of my life, I'm the best person
Speaker 1: of the universe at it at like telling you what
Speaker 1: people were thinking in a particular social situation and what
Speaker 1: they want. I'm like really good at knowing what people
Speaker 1: want now in like a creepy way. But when I
Speaker 1: was a kid, I had like no instinct for.
Speaker 2: It so is it almost like you understand it now
Speaker 2: and probably through writing characters and being in writers' rooms
Speaker 2: you understand it from an intellectual perspective, but instinctively it
Speaker 2: wasn't there. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The other big thing actually they made me realize
Speaker 1: I was autistic when I was playing because I made
Speaker 1: a TV show about it, is I was so much
Speaker 1: wisked when I was younger, and when I left high school,
Speaker 1: my social skills were so low, Like definitely, I started
Speaker 1: stand up because, like stand up comedy felt like a
Speaker 1: more safe way to explain who I am than like
Speaker 1: talking to people at a barbecue like that was less
Speaker 1: anxiety and joicing. I want to say I was an
Speaker 1: anxious person. I just like I just didn't know how
Speaker 1: to do it. I couldn't figure it out. I'm never anxious.
Speaker 1: And the kind of improvement that I've made at being
Speaker 1: able to have these social interactions, that's actually not normal,
Speaker 1: Like you're not meant to improve on a bell cuev
Speaker 1: in social interactions in your life, and autistic people do
Speaker 1: that because they're always trying to work things out. They're
Speaker 1: always trying to make up for that lack of instinct.
Speaker 1: All autistic people extroverted autistic people are doing this and
Speaker 1: then sometimes get much better at social skills than people
Speaker 1: who have a good instinct for those people haven't really
Speaker 1: been self noting themselves so constantly.
Speaker 2: Do you think it's also because you found your thing
Speaker 2: so young and you found your thing and maybe as
Speaker 2: a result, found your people.
Speaker 1: I think I'm really lucky that I'm famous, and like,
Speaker 1: I like, I really think that, like it's really helped me.
Speaker 1: I didn't like it when I was younger, but like
Speaker 1: going into social interactions and people kind of knowing who
Speaker 1: I am and what I'm about, having like a sense
Speaker 1: of like what it's going to be, that really helps
Speaker 1: me socially. Like that's great. People just knowing that I
Speaker 1: think that I'm funny. It's like really helpful people meet
Speaker 1: talking to people who don't know that I think that
Speaker 1: I'm funny, They take things really weirdly. They think I'm
Speaker 1: being really intense or like mean sometimes. Did you know
Speaker 1: that I think that I'm funny? That's like a really
Speaker 1: helpful introduction in life.
Speaker 2: It's incredible that you've almost got this built in level
Speaker 2: of intimacy with people you meet because they know who
Speaker 2: you are, they know where you're coming from.
Speaker 3: You're right.
Speaker 2: They know that you're funny. So if you say something dry,
Speaker 2: they know that that's meant to be a joke.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they know the intense. I mean they might not
Speaker 1: think that I'm funny. And look, I don't want to
Speaker 1: sound like I think everybody I talk to knows who
Speaker 1: I am. But like now people do that I can
Speaker 1: kind of skip the weird, the weird introduction of trying
Speaker 1: and explain myself.
Speaker 2: How about your ADHD when you look back on childhood
Speaker 2: adolescents anytime before you were diagnosed, what was ADHD that
Speaker 2: you didn't recognize?
Speaker 1: I mean, I would say the ADHD at this stage
Speaker 1: in my life is like much harder than the autism,
Speaker 1: even though people would think the autism is more hardcore.
Speaker 1: I mean I didn't come to this interview, did I
Speaker 1: was at lunch starts at half an hour late. I
Speaker 1: didn't know what was happening. Love it it all mean,
Speaker 1: but I didn't know what's happening. I mean my house
Speaker 1: is like you've seen out there, how much stuff there
Speaker 1: is just like everywhere, Like there's just stuff everywhere. Turns
Speaker 1: up at the Art Center and there's a suitcase there.
Speaker 1: From Channel to end of just like stuff that I
Speaker 1: left backstage at this show that we filmed. I just
Speaker 1: got an email from from Chloe, my manager's assistant, asking
Speaker 1: where I wanted to send the stuff that I left
Speaker 1: at the other show that we found. Like there's just
Speaker 1: like stuff whirring around me in circles, like pretty stuff.
Speaker 1: I just can't keep track or anything.
Speaker 2: Do you describe yourself as incredibly honest and straightforward and
Speaker 2: that's contributed to a lot of your success in comedy
Speaker 2: and TV because you're incisive and direct and you tell
Speaker 2: the truth and it resonates with people. Over the years,
Speaker 2: when you've been in the public eye and the culture
Speaker 2: has changed a little bit where it can kind of
Speaker 2: be scary to be honest, because what if just earlier,
Speaker 2: when you were talking about autism you sort of said, oh,
Speaker 2: some people don't like me talking about autism in this way.
Speaker 2: Do you get nervous about being at the center of
Speaker 2: such hot button topics like sexuality and mental health and neurodiversity.
Speaker 2: Do you get scared about getting things wrong?
Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone's so scared of being canceled, But then everyone's
Speaker 1: been canceled so many times by now, Actually that Ukraini
Speaker 1: of realize is going to be okay. I think that
Speaker 1: like era of like Twitter, everyone's trying to take everyone
Speaker 1: down is kind of softened because everybody's been taken down
Speaker 1: and everyone realize that it's not worth it. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: anyone was ever trying to take me down.
Speaker 5: I was.
Speaker 1: Two weeks later, I've looked back and they've had their
Speaker 1: own kafuffle because I started set up when I was seventeen,
Speaker 1: and I thought, when I was seventeen, I don't know
Speaker 1: anything about the world. I'm a child, and it's going
Speaker 1: to be so annoying for everybody to hear me get
Speaker 1: up and give my opinions about things. So I'm just
Speaker 1: going to talk about my life and just like share
Speaker 1: what I've done. And that was like, actually, I just
Speaker 1: can't believe how smart a thing that was for me
Speaker 1: to realize when I was seventeen. Seventeen year old's a
Speaker 1: stupid Actually, it's just like one moment of like insight
Speaker 1: that I had. So I've always just felt safe for
Speaker 1: talking about myself. So the reason why I'm like oversharing
Speaker 1: is you can't get mad at me for telling a
Speaker 1: story about you know, you mentioned mental health. I did
Speaker 1: a whole show about my mum attempting suicide, and that's
Speaker 1: a personal story. That's a safe story to tell as
Speaker 1: long as she's happy about it. I'm sharing something of myself.
Speaker 1: Like where I started get nervous is when I start
Speaker 1: talking about the world or what other people are doing,
Speaker 1: because I don't know.
Speaker 2: That's such a smart way of putting it. And I
Speaker 2: think you're exactly right that by telling your own story
Speaker 2: that's kind of impenetrable. People can't say that your truth
Speaker 2: isn't true. But then you've done Q and A a
Speaker 2: few years ago with Bob Catter. It was so funny
Speaker 2: you talking to him because I think he believes there's
Speaker 2: no homosexuals in Queensland.
Speaker 5: What worries me when I hear you talk like this
Speaker 5: and I spent let's say, googling you and you're adorable,
Speaker 5: is you say a lot of really important, powerful things right,
Speaker 5: like what you've said tonight. I hear it and I
Speaker 5: think this is a guy that cares and it's really important.
Speaker 5: When I hear you talk about dairy farmers and you
Speaker 5: say people in the cities should spend more than two
Speaker 5: dollars on milk, I agree with you, but then when
Speaker 5: you go out and you deny the existence of homosexuals
Speaker 5: in North Queensland, they exist.
Speaker 1: There's an apphole grinder. I'll put it on your phone. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he said there was no gains in North Queensland. It
Speaker 1: was one of against gay marriage. We're on a mental
Speaker 1: health episode and I just I really went. But I
Speaker 1: don't think I would do that anymore. I posted that
Speaker 1: clip recently in afscments. I wrote, this is back when
Speaker 1: I was brave, But it's just I just I don't
Speaker 1: want to be on the attack anymore. I'm so tired
Speaker 1: of seeing people attack people actually online and in these
Speaker 1: things I think everybody is. It's not nice. It's actually
Speaker 1: not nice. Even if you're right and you're yelling at
Speaker 1: somebody about their opinion that you think is wrong, that's
Speaker 1: a drag like it's just not a nice way to live.
Speaker 1: So I'm trying more and more and more to just
Speaker 1: focus on sort of saying what I want to say
Speaker 1: about the world. I'm like, what I think is like
Speaker 1: showing the word how I want to show it and
Speaker 1: kind of ignoring what other people think. Because the other
Speaker 1: thing about queenness actually is I'm just a bit sick
Speaker 1: of us begging for people's approval. Fuck them. I don't
Speaker 1: need buff Kada to like gay people. I don't care.
Speaker 1: Why does that matter? If he wants to go around
Speaker 1: not linking gay people, that's his problem. Who cares? What
Speaker 1: jk rowling thing? Why are we like listening to her
Speaker 1: when there's so many people in this world that like
Speaker 1: us and things that're went gool that we can hang
Speaker 1: out with and I want to go for lunch with us.
Speaker 1: Let's gope for lunch with those people and ignored jk Rowling. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she sucks? Who can?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really interesting way of talking about it,
Speaker 2: because the Internet, I think, especially when you're a public figure,
Speaker 2: can become something that really dictates your art. And I
Speaker 2: can imagine for you there's probably been even in that
Speaker 2: bobcat A moment, it's funny you felt like you were
Speaker 2: going him, But to me it didn't feel like that.
Speaker 2: It felt funny and light and honest that you told
Speaker 2: him you'd get him on grinder and he'd be able
Speaker 2: to say that they were gay people in Queensland.
Speaker 1: This is one of those weird things when you realized, like, why,
Speaker 1: I really my memory is so unreliable. I always looked
Speaker 1: back on that moment and felt like I had lost
Speaker 1: my temper on TV. And I only rewatched it recently
Speaker 1: after like sinx YenS, And in my memory, I screamed
Speaker 1: at that man and I was so fired up, and
Speaker 1: I watched it back recently, I'm like the nicest, sweetest
Speaker 1: person in my like, I'm being so gentle to this
Speaker 1: homophobic guard.
Speaker 3: You keep telling him you like him.
Speaker 1: I think I told I like him. Yeah, I have
Speaker 1: no idea why. In my memory, I was so mad.
Speaker 2: Coming up next what it felt like to be publicly
Speaker 2: piled on, and why celebrities in LA aren't happier than us,
Speaker 2: and a story about a huge Hollywood party. There was
Speaker 2: a moment a few years ago, I remember where you
Speaker 2: found yourself at the bottom of a very quick moving
Speaker 2: temporary pylon. How does it feel to be in the
Speaker 2: moment when people are shitting on you? Does it feel
Speaker 2: all consuming?
Speaker 1: There's a real frustration that you feel when you link.
Speaker 1: That's like a particular clip you're referencing, and it was
Speaker 1: old and it was small, and it was absolutely like
Speaker 1: I was being disgusting in it and everything I said,
Speaker 1: and I regret, like you could have shown me that
Speaker 1: clip ten minutes later, and I would would have been like,
Speaker 1: was he talking about there? I don't understand. And it's
Speaker 1: like people do this thing in these times where they
Speaker 1: think like, oh, this is the worst thing we've seen
Speaker 1: you do. This must be the truth, this must be
Speaker 1: like the man behind the way you've shown yourself. You
Speaker 1: have all of the right wing people on Twitter trying
Speaker 1: to find more clips because they want to cancel the canceller,
Speaker 1: and then you have all of left wing Twitter trying
Speaker 1: to find clips because they want to I don't know,
Speaker 1: they just want to prove their point that people in
Speaker 1: the world to mean and there's nothing else, like nothing
Speaker 1: else has come up, and I don't know, there's just
Speaker 1: this really frustrating thing where you feel like you can't
Speaker 1: defend yourself. All you apologize and I apologize and I
Speaker 1: meant it, and you don't really get a chance to
Speaker 1: defend yourself because the more you defend yourself, the more
Speaker 1: you're creating a press cycle.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Also, I mean in that period of my life, I
Speaker 1: was about to go to season two on a TV
Speaker 1: show for Disney that was like that was about me
Speaker 1: talking badly about diversity. We added to first cast with
Speaker 1: the first ever autistic girl ever out autistic to be
Speaker 1: a lead on TV show. We had a diverse cast,
Speaker 1: with a super diverse crew, Like I had really like
Speaker 1: taking all the lessons and like and acted and like
Speaker 1: the really the best I could in this new show.
Speaker 1: I divorced writers room. I had an all female writers
Speaker 1: room in season one. Like we were really like like
Speaker 1: like we were really really trying to do everything. I
Speaker 1: was really my second TV show, and I really like
Speaker 1: learn how to do all this stuff, and I was
Speaker 1: working out how to do it well. And I know,
Speaker 1: I mean Disney never said this, but I know that
Speaker 1: as this cancelation is going on, that they're having conversations
Speaker 1: about canceling the show, about all those people getting fired
Speaker 1: because of this thing that I did. That's really really scary.
Speaker 1: It did change my attitude to how I entreat public figures. Actually,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I'd already decided this years before,
Speaker 1: like that I'm just not going to be mad at
Speaker 1: people who make mistakes publicly. But it really like that
Speaker 1: experience was so it was so bad.
Speaker 2: And I think you're right that often in those moments
Speaker 2: is actually ironic if you look at the bigger picture,
Speaker 2: that you're like, hold on your pilot on a guy
Speaker 2: who's made a show about autism and is currently creating
Speaker 2: the most diverse show and has created one of the
Speaker 2: most diverse shows in Australia. Like, it's incredibly infuriating, And
Speaker 2: I imagine that must be such a hard position to
Speaker 2: be in because you're right. You can't fight back because
Speaker 2: that makes it worse my.
Speaker 1: Backup makes I do agree with them. I do agree
Speaker 1: that the clipe was really bad. If I saw someone
Speaker 1: else do the clip, I'd feel really mad. So what
Speaker 1: I said on that clip, I'd feel really mad at them.
Speaker 1: I'd probably want to tweet about how stupid they are.
Speaker 1: I just don't really understand this thing in human nature
Speaker 1: where people think that because they've seen the bandside of somebody,
Speaker 1: that that's the truth of who they really are. I
Speaker 1: haven't really understood that about anybody really.
Speaker 2: That is such a brilliant point that the worst thing
Speaker 2: somebody has done is not a reflection of the complex
Speaker 2: human being that they are.
Speaker 3: And it also kind of.
Speaker 2: Leads to the bigger idea of this show, which is
Speaker 2: that things can look a certain way from the outside
Speaker 2: and be very very different behind the scenes, behind closed
Speaker 2: doors in reality. So I wanted to ask you, you
Speaker 2: obviously live this incredible life, your very Hollywood. It's pretty amazing.
Speaker 2: Has there been a moment where the world told you
Speaker 2: you'd be happy and you actually weren't.
Speaker 1: Hanging out with Uber's successful people? Sucks?
Speaker 2: I mean, I was just going to say, like I
Speaker 2: wouldn't know, but I just offended everyone in my life.
Speaker 1: The thing about Ali that they don't link and he
Speaker 1: complaining about Ali because everyone complains about Ala, and I
Speaker 1: didn't know what it was when I moved there and
Speaker 1: I made a TV show, I thought it was gonna
Speaker 1: be really cool. So this is like, really the answer
Speaker 1: to your question. It just is so empty. Everyone's striving, right,
Speaker 1: everyone's thinking about their five year plan in a way
Speaker 1: that I've never experienced in another country. Right in Australia,
Speaker 1: everyone's just trying to have a fun party. I'm like,
Speaker 1: if were working on a project, actually make project work.
Speaker 1: But everybody there is thinking about their next step. But
Speaker 1: this is like at the club, right's still on their mind.
Speaker 1: They're still thinking about who's in the club. And I
Speaker 1: just don't want to lift like that. I find it
Speaker 1: really boring. And also the other thing is you have
Speaker 1: a bit of a success, but it's never as big
Speaker 1: as what you feel like you could be doing or
Speaker 1: what people around you are doing. I mean, Ali is designing.
Speaker 1: There's like the Hollywood Hills. They literally put the rich
Speaker 1: people on the hills to look down on you and link.
Speaker 1: Everybody feels like they should be doing more, and I
Speaker 1: just I don't know why people think that if they
Speaker 1: weren't doing more, they would be happier, because it's just
Speaker 1: not true. And I think actually you can just get
Speaker 1: the biggest show or be more famous, Like I don't
Speaker 1: Beyonce is not that happy, is she? I know?
Speaker 2: That's literally the point of this podcast is Beyonce happier
Speaker 2: than the restaurants. Have you found yourself caught up in
Speaker 2: that in La, Like, do you feel yourself absorbing it?
Speaker 3: By Osmosis?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you feel like, I mean, I'm just
Speaker 1: not an ambitious person. I'm not link out there doing
Speaker 1: this stuff like I really want to be able to
Speaker 1: make TV shows like doing it like I'm not like
Speaker 1: making moves to the claim a ladder or anything. And
Speaker 1: you do just always surrounded by it. You start to
Speaker 1: feel like maybe you're not doing enough, doing enough? What
Speaker 1: like I couldn't have a pool. It wish I had
Speaker 1: a pool, I suppose, but I don't know. I would
Speaker 1: have been in the pool with kids.
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, I also wish I had a pool. I
Speaker 2: think about that a lot. I think my goal in
Speaker 2: life is to have a swimming pool, but I don't
Speaker 2: think I ever will. But yes, in La, yes, your
Speaker 2: pool may be full of cuts.
Speaker 1: We have such a better time getting one of those
Speaker 1: fifteen dollars ones from Big w and blowing it up
Speaker 1: and feeling out with water and yeah sardy, Like I
Speaker 1: just I was surprised how much I was like, oh
Speaker 1: I got to get out of here, how much I
Speaker 1: supped to feel like I was feeling. I'm feeling absolutely
Speaker 1: not like you start feeling why and I in Marvel
Speaker 1: or something. Yes, I would hate to be Actually, I
Speaker 1: don't tell them.
Speaker 2: Man, You'll open to the opportunity if it arrives. You
Speaker 2: auditioned to be Greg in succession the.
Speaker 1: Only audition I've ever done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you didn't get it? Greg is Greg? And
Speaker 2: is that the sort of thing that Hollywood makes you think, like, oh,
Speaker 2: what if I had got that? What if I'd ridden
Speaker 2: that train? What if I was now I can't remember
Speaker 2: that actor's name, and I know your name, so maybe
Speaker 2: it doesn't even matter.
Speaker 1: But yeah, well, let's say they light to you. The
Speaker 1: thing in Alien is they just light to your face.
Speaker 1: And I'm always seeing Australians come over and they do
Speaker 1: all these meetings. They book their meetings for the first
Speaker 1: two meets and they're so excited. Sorry, I sit them
Speaker 1: down and I see they're lying to you. I love you.
Speaker 1: Maybe things are going really well. I'm sure they like you.
Speaker 1: But until there's like a contract. They're taking meetings so
Speaker 1: that they can tell their boss that they took a meeting.
Speaker 1: The agent sending the meetings so they can tell you
Speaker 1: that they set a meeting, and then you're now in
Speaker 1: this meeting and the meeting is not for any reason
Speaker 1: other than so that they all tell each other that
Speaker 1: they took a meeting. So I mean, I don't do
Speaker 1: any meetings anymore unless there's like a real project on
Speaker 1: the table, like unless it's a script or if it's
Speaker 1: somebody that commissions shows and we're pitching trying to sell
Speaker 1: a show. That just is places this weird game with
Speaker 1: you where you feel like, yeah, you always feel like
Speaker 1: someone's about to give you a movie.
Speaker 2: What has it been like when you meet people who
Speaker 2: have massive profiles and have had the big break? What
Speaker 2: does it feel like to meet your idols in that way?
Speaker 3: We're happier, they're not.
Speaker 1: No, no, no no.
Speaker 2: Are they different to how you'd expect? Are they confident?
Speaker 2: Do they come across the way you'd think given public profiles?
Speaker 1: They don't seem like they're having an easier time making friends.
Speaker 1: And actually, definitely what happens is really famous people and
Speaker 1: really rich people get into this dictator's dilemma, you know,
Speaker 1: where it seems like everyone really loves them, but they
Speaker 1: have no choice but to love them. And you see
Speaker 1: that a lot with like every super rich person. They
Speaker 1: can't trust that anybody likes them for them. Wow, and
Speaker 1: it's incredibly sad. Yeah, are you staying out with this?
Speaker 1: Director of those counseled terms. I was really really bad
Speaker 1: guy and I did a show about it in I
Speaker 1: did a sorry about my last show, and he just
Speaker 1: couldn't handle having that much power, didn't know what to
Speaker 1: do with it, and then became a real bad villain.
Speaker 1: And then other people that just went to brunch a
Speaker 1: one famous person's house. I don't want to tell you who.
Speaker 1: Then it was like just because I'm talking about that,
Speaker 1: they were really funny and nice, but like I looked
Speaker 1: around the table and I was like, oh, that's your producer,
Speaker 1: and these are like three girls that you barely know,
Speaker 1: and like, I'm here, you don't know me, Like you
Speaker 1: don't really have friends.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's like people who travel with like their hairdresser
Speaker 2: and their makeup artist, and it's a little bit like
Speaker 2: are they your friends or there your stuff?
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, like a creepy middle crown.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You have a TikTok video about how you're at a
Speaker 2: party and you saw somebody wearing a John Meyer shirt
Speaker 2: and it was actually john Nyam.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was really annoyed, and let me go to
Speaker 1: this straight pani. So this party is so straight that
Speaker 1: boys isn't. John may emerged and it was John Mayer.
Speaker 1: You've actually had drinks to John Mayer. He's really funny.
Speaker 1: I really like John Maya, and he does sort of
Speaker 1: seem like he's having fun. He's just like scowlsing around town,
Speaker 1: popping in. Okay, the most fancy party he went to.
Speaker 1: Seth McFarland. He's the creator of Family Guy yeah, yes,
Speaker 1: his holiday party. And he has this same holiday party
Speaker 1: where they build like a giant white tent over his
Speaker 1: tennis court, and he hires the La Philharmonic Orchestra to
Speaker 1: play all night and people sing in front of the
Speaker 1: La Philharmonic Orchestra for some reason this year, not that
Speaker 1: many people saying, it's kind of like a karaoke night,
Speaker 1: and like Christina Aguilera was supposed to get up and
Speaker 1: she got nervous, so he mostly just because he likes
Speaker 1: to crew, and so he mostly just sings the whole night.
Speaker 1: And there's lots of famous people that I'm sorry, I
Speaker 1: just can't remember that many of them, but I think
Speaker 1: like zac Efron was there.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I got the story though, So my boyfriend he looked
Speaker 1: like Dave Grohl. My boyfriend, he tells me on the
Speaker 1: jouder and he says, I just saw Courtney loved Tap
Speaker 1: Marilyn Manson and freak out because you thought I was
Speaker 1: Dave Grohl. And it turns out that these two have
Speaker 1: like a long running feud. Okay to do with them
Speaker 1: Cobain And I said to my said, Josh, his name
Speaker 1: is Josh with the same name, except I promise you
Speaker 1: when never moved one this story for the rest of
Speaker 1: all life. I will not say that it's not true.
Speaker 1: But that did not just happen. And then he re done,
Speaker 1: Like maybe twenty minutes later, Marilyn Manson had torn his
Speaker 1: pants off. He's just walking around in torn.
Speaker 2: Pants because he really did think it was Dave girl.
Speaker 1: No, they did it as a joke.
Speaker 2: That's pretty such a weird thing to do, but also
Speaker 2: something I fully believe Marilyn Manson would do.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. See those parties, like they're not fun.
Speaker 1: Everyone's just standing around, just looking around with their eyes.
Speaker 1: Like even the famous people you're standing around looking around
Speaker 1: with their eyes, thinking about when they'll tell the story
Speaker 1: on the podcast like I have now. That party was
Speaker 1: a million dollars at least, and it's not the best
Speaker 1: party I've ever been. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: There's often talk about toxic positivity, and I feel like
Speaker 2: it's a little bit American. It's a little bit the
Speaker 2: idea of just you can't say anything bad, you can't
Speaker 2: be self deprecating, because you just have to be positive, positive,
Speaker 2: positive all the time. And sometimes that toxic positivity can
Speaker 2: really contribute to making you not feel happy because you
Speaker 2: feel crazy that you're not actually experiencing positive emotions all
Speaker 2: the time. Have you had any experience with that, especially
Speaker 2: in America?
Speaker 1: Obviously, I don't like toxic positivity. People think that things
Speaker 1: need to be green all the time is crazy. Things
Speaker 1: are supposed to be average, things are supposed to be
Speaker 1: just fine. If things are fine, then that's good. If
Speaker 1: things are fine, we're not complaining about them because fine,
Speaker 1: we'll take this day. We'll take this day. That's fine,
Speaker 1: and we'll enjoy it. I don't wanting about people winging
Speaker 1: about their length unless it's like really bad, And I
Speaker 1: don't want to hear people talking about what they're missing
Speaker 1: in their life. I feel like a lot of the
Speaker 1: podcasts when other people talk about it, I'm.
Speaker 2: A little bit like rethinking by this entire podcast. But also,
Speaker 2: the idea of things being fine is exactly right. And
Speaker 2: I think it's the expectation that we're always going to
Speaker 2: be elated and that every experience is exciting, and that
Speaker 2: there are going to be these days that are the
Speaker 2: most perfect days of your life. I think that is
Speaker 2: actually what really messes with our happiness and our well being.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we can't live in link a romantic comedy monitors. Yeah, retiring, Yes,
Speaker 1: I actually wouldn't want to.
Speaker 2: I always think that with traveling, that it's like you
Speaker 2: go somewhere, you go to the place you've seen on
Speaker 2: Instagram and you go there, but it's like you need
Speaker 2: to pee, you know what I mean, Like you forget that.
Speaker 2: It's like you get in the moment, but it's not
Speaker 2: a photo. You're a bit hot and it's crowded and
Speaker 2: you need to wear Yeah, at you.
Speaker 1: Just because you keep being you all on vacation.
Speaker 2: And it's fine and it's just fine and that's okay.
Speaker 2: After the break, Josh talks about his mum's bipolar and
Speaker 2: how she felt when he wrote his show and made
Speaker 2: a character based on her. So you're growing up in
Speaker 2: Queensland and your mum had bipolar, but you didn't know
Speaker 2: that when you were growing up. You didn't know that,
Speaker 2: not obviously, and please, like me, you grappled with bipolar
Speaker 2: and there was a suicide at the end of the season.
Speaker 2: What do you think having someone close to you who
Speaker 2: lives with bipolar disorder has taught you about happiness?
Speaker 1: There's all kind of separate to me because I see it.
Speaker 1: It's like they're not thinking straight right, Like she couldn't
Speaker 1: help herself. It's just just just no way that she
Speaker 1: could help herself. No one could help her, and she
Speaker 1: couldn't help herself, and she had to work out how
Speaker 1: to help herself. As something that I worked out after
Speaker 1: a few years. I think no one can help her.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, of course we can turn up and stuff,
Speaker 1: but it's not really like something's got to change in
Speaker 1: her brain one day or something and she's great.
Speaker 2: Now, how do you work out what you want to
Speaker 2: share and what you're actually not comfortable sharing.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm happy to share anything about me. Really,
Speaker 1: I don't feel ashamed. I don't have that emotion. I
Speaker 1: don't think, and I'm always surprised when people are like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're really oversharing. I'm like, what do you care if
Speaker 1: you know about this?
Speaker 2: How liberating to not have shame?
Speaker 1: I mean, do I have shame? Sometimes I feel sharing
Speaker 1: other people's story is scarier my mum and mental health stuff.
Speaker 1: I always want make sure there's a reason, Like I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm telling this story and it'll help people,
Speaker 1: and I don't want to say it like that, but
Speaker 1: like I say, it's a story that hasn't been told before,
Speaker 1: and I feel like I could show people this side
Speaker 1: of mental health. That's why she let me do please
Speaker 1: let me in the first place.
Speaker 2: Was she happy with that representation?
Speaker 1: So she read the script so my mama like she
Speaker 1: was a full approval because because my character saints Josh,
Speaker 1: she's a mom like for defamation reason. She she had
Speaker 1: the highest level of approval on the show.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: She watched it alone and was really unsure about it.
Speaker 1: That was tough. And then it went to air and
Speaker 1: so that's a script stage. She has approval, she doesn't
Speaker 1: have approval of other cuts. Obviously reshoot things, and she
Speaker 1: got really excited and now she really really loves it
Speaker 1: and it's like on board. But it's very hard when
Speaker 1: you haven't when you've seen a show that your son
Speaker 1: made that's about you attempting suicide, and no one else
Speaker 1: in the world has seen it, and she's just wondering
Speaker 1: how they're.
Speaker 3: Going to take it.
Speaker 1: She wasn't corrased about herself. She just doesn't. She doesn't
Speaker 1: really like the idea of like a drama need her.
Speaker 1: It's like a little bit it's not to her taste,
Speaker 1: you know, She's not of that generation. Yeah, yeah, you
Speaker 1: just couldn't understand why it was sad.
Speaker 2: Sometimes, do you think having experienced something so scary as
Speaker 2: your mum having a suicide attempt, do you think it
Speaker 2: kind of puts things into perspective and makes you realize
Speaker 2: what is and isn't important.
Speaker 3: No, thank you for your honest chancel.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I never thought that, and I mean, this is how
Speaker 1: I survived it. I thought, whoa, this is mental illness.
Speaker 1: I feel like so many people after a suicide attempt
Speaker 1: of like a friend or a loved one, they get
Speaker 1: obsessed with trying to figure out why the person did
Speaker 1: it or like or they think, like if I had
Speaker 1: done something different for this person, would they have wanted
Speaker 1: to commit suicide? And they're trying to find logic and
Speaker 1: this decision that this person has made it was illogical.
Speaker 1: This person's mentally they don't know why they're doing it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I almost my mum about it now and
Speaker 1: I've written about it in the show, and I just
Speaker 1: want to understand what her thinking process was. And there
Speaker 1: was stupid. It doesn't make any sense. You can't look
Speaker 1: at it from the outside. You can't look at mentally
Speaker 1: ill people from the outside, and think that you, as
Speaker 1: a non without that specific mental illness, are going to
Speaker 1: understand why they're doing what they're doing. That's the point.
Speaker 1: It's very, very silly what they're doing. It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2: Do you feel like you are in any way predisposed
Speaker 2: to depression or anything similar because of genetics and because
Speaker 2: of your mom?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well I'll probably right.
Speaker 2: Do you think that there are strategies that you live
Speaker 2: by that actually stop you from getting into that place?
Speaker 1: I don't actually think I got the mental illness gene
Speaker 1: of bipolar gene. I don't think I have it, but
Speaker 1: who knows. Things could turn. I feel weird saying this
Speaker 1: a lot, but I know that, like, the two big
Speaker 1: things in mental illness are delusions and paranoia. These are
Speaker 1: the tool thing. If you're writing a character that's mentally ill,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be delusions of paranoia that the two big sayings.
Speaker 1: And sometimes I'll just feel myself. I don't know, I'll
Speaker 1: just feel myself and I'll realize, like, oh, for like
Speaker 1: a few beans, they've thought everyone hated me. That's not
Speaker 1: actually probably definitely not true. And just like try and
Speaker 1: like switch something up in your life and the scene
Speaker 1: with delusions. That's scary to me as well. So I'm
Speaker 1: just like very aware of those two thinking patterns and
Speaker 1: trying not to, like really early on, be conscious that
Speaker 1: they're not good ways to behave.
Speaker 2: It's like when people have panic attacks, and as soon
Speaker 2: as they learn that it's a panic attack and not
Speaker 2: a heart attack, the panic attack jobs, and for you,
Speaker 2: it's like you can actually recognize this is paranoia, and
Speaker 2: so it stop like that's actually incredibly powerful. But it
Speaker 2: sounds like you've got a lot of kind of insight
Speaker 2: and a healthy mental attitude that has maybe been formed
Speaker 2: by your own life experiences. I saw a TikTok video
Speaker 2: where you were talking about the hardest part of being
Speaker 2: in your thirties being that everybody has babies and you
Speaker 2: have to pretend to like the babies when babies are
Speaker 2: actually slugs. And I have a four month old, and
Speaker 2: I agree babies are actually slugs. You're not wrong on that.
Speaker 2: But having grown up and you've got your family and siblings,
Speaker 2: do you think that we're told that happiness needs to
Speaker 2: be contingent on having a family, having kids, having a partner.
Speaker 1: Oh god, I have no idea. I never really have
Speaker 1: never considered having a family, not even a little bit.
Speaker 1: I've been asked for my spam four times to donate
Speaker 1: my spam.
Speaker 3: Oh really yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Said, nah, absolutely not. I don't even like me that much.
Speaker 1: I don't need to donate my spam. Like I think
Speaker 1: I'm doing fine. Like that's because I mean jeans. It's
Speaker 1: just hard because friendships are so important to me. Friendships
Speaker 1: are so like a lot of gay people. But that
Speaker 1: seems like a weird thing to say. Friendships like really
Speaker 1: a link rock star. And if you're not having kids
Speaker 1: in your thirties, it's kind of like you need to
Speaker 1: find other friends that aren't having kids, right so that
Speaker 1: they have the same priorities of you. Because of course,
Speaker 1: like once someone has a kid, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: be very high in their numbers of priorities. That's like
Speaker 1: how it has to be, which is understandable, but it's
Speaker 1: not that fun for me. Not that fun for me
Speaker 1: to be fourth priority. So a lot of my friends
Speaker 1: since high school or since there's in my early twenties,
Speaker 1: so once they have children, what are we going to
Speaker 1: do together?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: To be clear, I go, I see them, but it's
Speaker 1: not like it's like, oh, like I'm not your main
Speaker 1: friend anymore. You're not going to be my main friend anymore,
Speaker 1: Like I have to find another main friend, and that's
Speaker 1: a cutbreak.
Speaker 2: Actually, I think that that's actually an important point that
Speaker 2: you feel, even when you do have kids, that you
Speaker 2: know that the nature of your friendships is always going
Speaker 2: to be different, that there's always somebody else you have
Speaker 2: to consider before that. Do you ever wonder, ten years
Speaker 2: down the track, twenty is down the track, if you
Speaker 2: will want kids? No, Because there's definitely a kind of
Speaker 2: movement in around women thinking I don't want kids, and
Speaker 2: I'm fine with that, and I love it, and I
Speaker 2: think it must be really exciting to be able to
Speaker 2: rewrite the traditional narrative of what of what life should
Speaker 2: of what life should be. I think that's really liberating.
Speaker 1: I've never even considered having kids, Like it's not even
Speaker 1: like this is the first time I've ever considered that.
Speaker 1: It's weird because conversation right now, even my mom said
Speaker 1: to me. My mom said to me a few years ago,
Speaker 1: she said, I never thought you'd have children, She said,
Speaker 1: even when you were a kid, I thought he's not
Speaker 1: going to have kids, And I thought, trust all, that's
Speaker 1: not a compliment. Is it you're looking at me at
Speaker 1: eight years old thinking that I'm never going to be
Speaker 1: a kid. Like if somebody looks at you and says, wow,
Speaker 1: he'd be such a good dad. That's a nice thing.
Speaker 1: You're looking at me at eight years old and being like,
Speaker 1: he's never going to want to have kids. My brother
Speaker 1: and my sister she's always like, no, you will one day.
Speaker 1: And me she's always been like, you old and I
Speaker 1: haven't to do what? Where aware? Watch what?
Speaker 3: Absolutely not.
Speaker 2: I think kids would absolutely love you, though, And that's
Speaker 2: what's so funny about it, that kids must just be
Speaker 2: like that guy's fun and you're like, nah, I don't
Speaker 2: have the time. Is there anything in your professional life
Speaker 2: or your personal life that you look back on and
Speaker 2: consider a failure that you learnt from because you were
Speaker 2: really young and doing stand up comedy? Did that ever
Speaker 2: affect your happiness? Do you ever feel like your happiness
Speaker 2: was contingent on how well you were performing?
Speaker 1: You just have to train your happiness in this way.
Speaker 1: And I feel like I don't know how to really
Speaker 1: describe it, but you get so used to when I
Speaker 1: was younger, so like the first gig I did on
Speaker 1: my only first seventeen, I won the one Morall comedy, right,
Speaker 1: So I had like a confidence, right, which is helpful.
Speaker 1: I think like if things went bad, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: that went bad, and I never sort of thought I
Speaker 1: can't do this.
Speaker 2: You're coming from a baseline of white people say I
Speaker 2: can do this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, people say you can do this, right, And that's
Speaker 1: so nice. Like having that base level of confidence, I
Speaker 1: never would have survived otherwise. Yeah, you just get used
Speaker 1: to rooms, so people hating you, and and then I
Speaker 1: just sort of like you would make you really depressed
Speaker 1: for a while. But then I just eventually, after a
Speaker 1: little while, you're just like, no, this isn't I would
Speaker 1: always think it's not allowed to go to bed, out
Speaker 1: of the out of my system before I go to bed,
Speaker 1: and then there's no point thinking about this thing anymore.
Speaker 1: You like train yourself to do that. I don't know
Speaker 1: how to explain it. You just train yourself to move on.
Speaker 1: But the flip side of that is I don't think
Speaker 1: I also can't take to bed like things that are exciting,
Speaker 1: because you don't want to be like living in the
Speaker 1: winds of the highs and the lows. Because also like
Speaker 1: the idea of like learning a lesson is like creative
Speaker 1: work is so complicated, and you're doing stuff because you
Speaker 1: think it's going to be a vibe. Like I just
Speaker 1: think it's gonna be a vibe. I think people will
Speaker 1: think this is a vibe and then they're like, it's
Speaker 1: not a vibe. You can't really sit down and like
Speaker 1: there's not a spreadsheet you can go through each joyce
Speaker 1: and see where, like what decision went wrong? You can't
Speaker 1: really you just have to get up and think about
Speaker 1: what do you think the next thing will be a
Speaker 1: vibe again? That's the only way you can survive. Does
Speaker 1: that make sense what I'm saying?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: And I think it's actually incredibly mentally healthy.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it's actually really healthy sitting down and thinking
Speaker 1: why did that go wrong? That was so bad? Maybe
Speaker 1: next time I need to do this different or that different,
Speaker 1: or maybe this show didn't connect with people because of
Speaker 1: the demographic or something. It's like, well, there's no point,
Speaker 1: it's done now.
Speaker 2: You do seem to have a very healthy attitude towards
Speaker 2: your work and creativity, which is not overthinking. Just do it,
Speaker 2: Like I just tell my story. That's what I do
Speaker 2: when it comes to happiness, and I assume you get
Speaker 2: some of your happiness through your work and through the
Speaker 2: meaning of the work you produce. What does it mean
Speaker 2: to you? Like when you think about looking back as
Speaker 2: an old man, what do you think it will be
Speaker 2: that made you happy?
Speaker 1: I mean, I know, definitely know what I like to do,
Speaker 1: Like to hang out with my friends, hang out with
Speaker 1: my boyfriends, eat little snacks, have some drinks. That's what
Speaker 1: I want to be doing. I have a little dance, right,
Speaker 1: That's what I'm like to be doing. And for me,
Speaker 1: if I have access to that, I'm sweet. I'm great.
Speaker 1: To me. Happiness is like it's like the absence of stress.
Speaker 2: I think that idea of absence of stress is so universal.
Speaker 2: Like it sounds like you're not very neurotic about your work,
Speaker 2: like you kind of just get it done.
Speaker 1: I do it. I mean, I'm really meticulous and we're
Speaker 1: building it. I'm like, oh, I never lose my temper
Speaker 1: on set. When I see people lose their temper on set,
Speaker 1: I go up to let him, like, bab were at work, chill,
Speaker 1: that's not my show. That was in their temper about
Speaker 1: something going wrong about my own show. It's like we
Speaker 1: don't need to do this. Yeah, that's relax. You don't
Speaker 1: need to cry here. There's no reason. It's a TV show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: everything's so random that you can't really know if it's
Speaker 1: going to be good or not. So that's in making
Speaker 1: a TV show where you're trying to create like a
Speaker 1: special little moment of chemistry and a warehouse where you've
Speaker 1: got all these men and gaffer tape and equipment and
Speaker 1: you're trying to get this little kiss that feels magic
Speaker 1: to people. I don't really know whether that's going to
Speaker 1: work in the warehouse when we're there or not. I
Speaker 1: find out another day, and there's no point stressing about
Speaker 1: it while we're there. But I think it's the same
Speaker 1: in life. I think people who try so hard to
Speaker 1: manufacture happiness, and this is kind of everything what I
Speaker 1: was trying to say about these people in LA They
Speaker 1: try so hard to get this thing that they assume
Speaker 1: it's going to make them happy, but they don't know
Speaker 1: what's going to make them happy. Often people get it
Speaker 1: and they're not happy. And actually it's just like making
Speaker 1: the most of what you're doing and just trying not
Speaker 1: to do bad things.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I think that's exactly it. And that is
Speaker 2: literally literally the idea of this podcast that I think
Speaker 2: a lot of what we think will make us happy
Speaker 2: actually doesn't, and the things we take for granted are
Speaker 2: the things that make us happy. Well, Josh Thomas, you
Speaker 2: have a wildly impressive career. You have fans all over
Speaker 2: the world. You fell theaters with people who want to
Speaker 2: hear what you have to say, and you have people
Speaker 2: watch shows you starre in with the words you wrote
Speaker 2: and the ideas you had. But are you happy?
Speaker 1: I'm really happy. I'm having a good time out here.
Speaker 3: You seem bloody happy.
Speaker 1: People say they're happy at the end. Who says they're
Speaker 1: not happy?
Speaker 2: We've had a few people say that they're not happy.
Speaker 2: But I think you learn a lot from people who
Speaker 2: are really happy in their lives right now. Interestingly, I
Speaker 2: think a lot of what you've said is you're not
Speaker 2: happy because you have all the shiny stuff. You're happy
Speaker 2: because you're doing what you love.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going out and doing fun thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah exactly.
Speaker 2: Not because you're in the fancy restaurant. Since I interviewed Josh,
Speaker 2: I have not been able to stop telling people that
Speaker 2: things are just meant to be fine, it's so funny,
Speaker 2: but it's also really quite profound. I'm really grappling with
Speaker 2: the fact that what complicates our lives and our experience
Speaker 2: of the world is our expectations. We want to feel
Speaker 2: euphoric on holiday and bursting with joy on our birthday,
Speaker 2: and ecstatic on our wedding day, and we want to
Speaker 2: cry when our baby is born, and sometimes we don't,
Speaker 2: and there's absolutely nothing pathological about that. It's just how
Speaker 2: life is meant to be. It's our expectations that end
Speaker 2: up crippling us. I think the metaphor of Hollywood is
Speaker 2: a clever one because, as Josh says, it's a bunch
Speaker 2: of people thinking that the thing that will make them
Speaker 2: happy might be just around the corner, and as a result,
Speaker 2: they're never living in the now and what they're searching
Speaker 2: for might never come, and even if it does, it
Speaker 2: probably won't feel the way they think it will. Josh
Speaker 2: Thomas seems to be happy because he doesn't expect to
Speaker 2: be Join me next week for a conversation with actor
Speaker 2: and Gowerie Rice, who you might know from Spider Man
Speaker 2: and Mean Girls that also involves her mum. We talk
Speaker 2: about what it's like to be a teenager working in
Speaker 2: Hollywood and her recent experience of landing her dream role
Speaker 2: in Mean Girls and being trolled for it.
Speaker 4: I'm going to take that experience and hold on to
Speaker 4: it as something that was ultimately really positive for me,
Speaker 4: and I don't want other people to ruin that positivity
Speaker 4: that I got from that experience.
Speaker 2: And Gowy is clever and passionate, and her mum, Kate,
Speaker 2: offers a fascinating perspective about deciding to encourage her daughter
Speaker 2: to pursue acting when her own experiences with the industry
Speaker 2: were not always positive. That's next week on But are
Speaker 2: you happy? If you enjoyed the podcast, please review and
Speaker 2: subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to
Speaker 2: suggest someone for the podcast, you can get in touch
Speaker 2: with me directly. My Instagram handle is Claire dot Stevens
Speaker 2: with two s's, or you can email us here at
Speaker 2: podcast at mamameya dot com dot au. This episode was
Speaker 2: produced by Tarlie Blackman, with audio production by Scott Stronik.
Speaker 3: See you next week,