WEBVTT - Wuthering Heights & the ‘Bad Man’ Controversy 0:00:08.234 --> 0:00:10.914 You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. 0:00:16.074 --> 0:00:18.753 Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia out Loud. It's what 0:00:18.794 --> 0:00:22.273 women are actually talking about on Monday, the sixteenth of February. 0:00:22.393 --> 0:00:25.234 I'm Olly Wayne, right, I'm Jesse Stevens. 0:00:24.714 --> 0:00:25.954 And I'm Amelia Lester. 0:00:26.314 --> 0:00:29.874 And here's what's on our agenda for today. Wuthering Heights 0:00:29.994 --> 0:00:31.674 and the return of the Bad. 0:00:31.594 --> 0:00:35.154 Man looks Maxing Are we really doing this now? 0:00:35.473 --> 0:00:39.313 And Harper Beckham, Celeste Barber and the question of how 0:00:39.314 --> 0:00:43.833 to handle very tricky relationship moments on social media. 0:00:43.913 --> 0:00:47.153 But first, in case you missed it, did we just 0:00:47.273 --> 0:00:50.674 see another shit skirt flying off a glass. 0:00:50.354 --> 0:00:52.434 Cliff in Australian politics? 0:00:53.074 --> 0:00:55.234 Or is what just happened in the Liberal Party a 0:00:55.273 --> 0:00:56.834 little more complicated than that? 0:00:57.674 --> 0:00:58.353 Quick catch up? 0:00:58.354 --> 0:01:00.114 And don't worry, we are going to keep it brief. 0:01:00.194 --> 0:01:04.074 I know that everybody's tolerance of a discussion about politics like, 0:01:04.434 --> 0:01:06.994 oh god, we are going to keep it brief. But 0:01:07.314 --> 0:01:10.953 last Friday, the worst kept secret and Australian politics played 0:01:10.954 --> 0:01:14.874 out exactly as predicted. The first female leader of the 0:01:14.874 --> 0:01:17.074 Liberal Party, Susan Lee, lost her job. 0:01:17.234 --> 0:01:18.393 She was rolled, as. 0:01:18.234 --> 0:01:22.074 We so charmingly put it in Australia by Angus Taylor, 0:01:22.354 --> 0:01:25.314 a man who's been stalking that job for about a decade. 0:01:25.634 --> 0:01:28.314 She served nine months in the role, and no one 0:01:28.354 --> 0:01:31.394 who's been watching political headlines lately could really argue that 0:01:31.474 --> 0:01:34.834 she did a very good job. Although my shit skirt 0:01:34.874 --> 0:01:38.354 analogy is just a refresher for anyone who doesn't remember. 0:01:38.394 --> 0:01:42.114 This is that when something political is in a terrible mess. 0:01:42.194 --> 0:01:44.953 So let's imagine, for example, that your party just lost 0:01:44.954 --> 0:01:47.994 the election in a landslide and your primary vote is 0:01:48.034 --> 0:01:50.434 in collapse and you've been chased out of every city 0:01:50.474 --> 0:01:54.794 in the country, as the Liberal Party has. Sometimes people go, oh, 0:01:54.874 --> 0:01:56.634 this is a good idea, a good time to put 0:01:56.634 --> 0:01:57.514 a woman in charge. 0:01:57.674 --> 0:01:57.914 Yes. 0:01:57.994 --> 0:02:00.794 So the president for that, of course is Theresa May 0:02:00.794 --> 0:02:04.074 inheriting Brexit right, and so you were just like she 0:02:04.194 --> 0:02:09.514 was given this pile of little all shit and told 0:02:09.594 --> 0:02:11.994 to deal with it, and there was no solution. 0:02:12.394 --> 0:02:14.394 The idea is that you're dealing with You're trying to 0:02:14.394 --> 0:02:16.954 clean up this mess, and whichever way you do it, 0:02:17.074 --> 0:02:19.434 everyone in the gallery is just going, no, you need 0:02:19.474 --> 0:02:20.514 a stay and remover on that. 0:02:20.874 --> 0:02:23.074 No, a bit assault model, get it out, vinegars. What 0:02:23.114 --> 0:02:24.354 you need you're doing it wrong. 0:02:24.194 --> 0:02:27.034 And you're just rubbing it in and needs to be 0:02:27.354 --> 0:02:27.954 set on fire. 0:02:27.954 --> 0:02:29.634 Are you going to explain why it was not in 0:02:29.674 --> 0:02:31.754 fact a shitskirt? She didn't do a good child. 0:02:31.794 --> 0:02:33.674 So she didn't do a good job. Poles are in 0:02:33.714 --> 0:02:37.274 the toilet. Toilet not another analogy, poles are and toy. 0:02:37.394 --> 0:02:39.474 But the argument about the shitskirt and the glass cliff 0:02:39.514 --> 0:02:41.394 is whether or not anybody could have really done a 0:02:41.394 --> 0:02:43.234 good job in this particular position. 0:02:43.314 --> 0:02:44.434 She didn't get out the sad. 0:02:44.794 --> 0:02:47.114 She really didn't get out the sad, and everyone else 0:02:47.194 --> 0:02:50.634 is like, I've got the side anyway. So after that 0:02:50.754 --> 0:02:54.514 landslide election loss, the Libs had a big argument about 0:02:54.514 --> 0:02:57.154 what they had to do. Either try and win back 0:02:57.194 --> 0:02:59.634 the cities that they lost to the Teals or go 0:02:59.714 --> 0:03:01.794 after the votes that they're losing to one nation in 0:03:01.834 --> 0:03:04.674 the regions. And Lee managed to do neither of those things. 0:03:05.314 --> 0:03:08.633 And the polling on the Liberal Party and now in 0:03:08.674 --> 0:03:12.194 the toilet, as I discussed there sometimes party the Nationals 0:03:12.194 --> 0:03:15.234 are on this on off love affair and they are 0:03:15.354 --> 0:03:18.194 now behind one nation in the polls. And this is 0:03:18.274 --> 0:03:21.634 quite the feat because the Liberals historically in Australia have 0:03:21.634 --> 0:03:23.314 been in power more than any other party. There used 0:03:23.314 --> 0:03:25.994 to be the default government pretty much and now they 0:03:25.994 --> 0:03:27.474 are third in the polls. 0:03:27.514 --> 0:03:31.353 In the last election, the Liberal Party which lost abysmally, 0:03:31.834 --> 0:03:36.034 they had thirty two percent of preference votes and then 0:03:36.074 --> 0:03:38.674 a recent poll this was cited in Jaquelin Malee's column 0:03:38.714 --> 0:03:42.114 over the weekend, said that they're down to about eighteen 0:03:42.234 --> 0:03:44.554 percent of the primary vote. So whether it was a 0:03:44.634 --> 0:03:48.634 man or a woman, with those polling numbers, the party 0:03:48.674 --> 0:03:50.474 had no choice but to replace that leader. 0:03:50.794 --> 0:03:53.474 Has that ever happened before that one nation has overtaken 0:03:53.634 --> 0:03:54.154 the Libs? 0:03:54.314 --> 0:03:54.554 No? 0:03:54.554 --> 0:03:57.274 No, no, they are on the ascent at the moment. 0:03:58.314 --> 0:04:01.634 Step in Angus Taylor, who is a Liberal leader from 0:04:01.714 --> 0:04:02.474 Central Casting. 0:04:02.554 --> 0:04:05.154 Yeah. First, starting with his name, Angus Taylor. 0:04:05.514 --> 0:04:09.274 Yeah, he could not be more of an Anglo liberal 0:04:09.394 --> 0:04:12.674 white guy if he tried. I did hear some people 0:04:12.914 --> 0:04:15.074 talking on Friday about like he looks like a leader, 0:04:15.714 --> 0:04:16.674 which is code for. 0:04:16.674 --> 0:04:17.553 Would be the penis. 0:04:17.873 --> 0:04:20.753 Yeah, the penis and the fact like he's from a 0:04:20.794 --> 0:04:23.073 farming family, but he went to a very posh private 0:04:23.113 --> 0:04:23.713 boys school. 0:04:23.753 --> 0:04:24.873 He was a Rhodes scholar. 0:04:24.953 --> 0:04:27.633 He's that guy business da da da, He's the liberal 0:04:27.674 --> 0:04:30.553 guy and he has stepped in, and of course he 0:04:30.633 --> 0:04:32.914 knows how to get the shit out of the skirt. 0:04:33.834 --> 0:04:35.713 What do we think, friends, So is he going to 0:04:35.794 --> 0:04:38.713 take it further to the right and try and get 0:04:38.714 --> 0:04:40.834 the one nation vote or do you think he's going 0:04:40.873 --> 0:04:44.674 to like double down on sort of more old school. Ye. 0:04:45.834 --> 0:04:48.354 I think he's going to go a little bit more right, 0:04:48.393 --> 0:04:50.753 and he's definitely from the conservative faction of the party. 0:04:51.393 --> 0:04:54.073 But in saying that, he's also like, I want to 0:04:54.073 --> 0:04:58.993 bring us back to John Howard era politics. And it's 0:04:59.073 --> 0:05:01.953 an interesting strategy given that the Liberal Party have lost 0:05:01.993 --> 0:05:04.394 women and they've lost young people. So to put in 0:05:04.433 --> 0:05:08.433 a conservative guy who doesn't particularly appeal to either of 0:05:08.474 --> 0:05:11.634 those demographics, as far as I can tell, is an 0:05:11.633 --> 0:05:15.313 interesting play. He's the guy, and I felt like this 0:05:15.433 --> 0:05:16.514 was important context. 0:05:16.594 --> 0:05:18.033 I know what you're gonna tell us, and this is 0:05:18.154 --> 0:05:22.433 maybe the best political story everybody pay attention again. 0:05:22.594 --> 0:05:26.873 Twenty nineteen Facebook status by Angus Taylor about something great 0:05:26.914 --> 0:05:29.553 that he was doing in politics, and then there was 0:05:29.594 --> 0:05:32.674 a comment. It was his official Liberal Party account, and 0:05:32.674 --> 0:05:35.993 then there was a comment underneath that said fantastic, great move, 0:05:36.073 --> 0:05:39.313 well done, Angus, And that was from Angus Taylor MP, 0:05:39.714 --> 0:05:42.153 and he had commented on his own Facebook page but 0:05:42.234 --> 0:05:45.234 like forgotten to change the name. So he's all of 0:05:45.313 --> 0:05:46.274 us trying to. 0:05:46.393 --> 0:05:50.513 Like drum up a bit of hype latest program exactly. 0:05:50.753 --> 0:05:53.833 It's incredibly relatable. But he's that guy, and he has 0:05:53.914 --> 0:05:56.954 had like a very long list of faux pas. I 0:05:57.034 --> 0:06:01.113 suppose he was behind a lot of the very unpopular 0:06:01.193 --> 0:06:04.593 policies that came forward in the last election, Like he 0:06:04.834 --> 0:06:09.794 was the guy behind the stopping work from home policy, right, But. 0:06:09.794 --> 0:06:10.794 That's not a faux part. 0:06:10.873 --> 0:06:12.833 Faux part makes it sound like he used the wrong fork. 0:06:13.193 --> 0:06:14.514 This is like what he did that. 0:06:14.633 --> 0:06:18.593 With policy, just unpopular policies. He was very against the 0:06:18.633 --> 0:06:22.753 Stage three tax cards. He's very much like when you 0:06:22.834 --> 0:06:25.314 look back, it's not like he's been a particularly popular 0:06:25.354 --> 0:06:26.593 politician by any means. 0:06:26.633 --> 0:06:28.633 But his name is Angus Taylor, and he's a man, 0:06:28.714 --> 0:06:32.953 and he comes from a farm. Yes, stop asking questions. 0:06:33.073 --> 0:06:34.113 He's very ambitious. 0:06:34.393 --> 0:06:36.633 The thing is is that Susan Lee, who has been 0:06:36.674 --> 0:06:40.593 gracious in stepping away, has left them with the shit skirt, 0:06:40.633 --> 0:06:42.753 which I respect because she's going to quit. She's not 0:06:42.794 --> 0:06:44.833 just stepping away from being the leader. She's actually quitting 0:06:45.354 --> 0:06:47.593 and what that means is they have to have a 0:06:47.594 --> 0:06:50.674 by election in her seat, and what that means is 0:06:50.714 --> 0:06:52.594 that they are going to be tested against one nation 0:06:52.633 --> 0:06:55.113 because she's a regional southern New South Wales seat. They're 0:06:55.154 --> 0:06:57.313 going to be tested against one nation for the first 0:06:57.354 --> 0:07:00.313 time since the polls shifted. And so in a way 0:07:00.393 --> 0:07:03.474 that is Susan Lee's very past agg way of going well, 0:07:03.553 --> 0:07:06.833 fuck you, because I'm sure they would rather not be 0:07:06.873 --> 0:07:09.874 fine an election that quickly in that seat. 0:07:09.914 --> 0:07:12.794 But Susan Lee is gone nut. I'm We're handing you 0:07:12.874 --> 0:07:14.714 the sad and I am walking away. 0:07:14.794 --> 0:07:16.074 Could we say she flounced? 0:07:16.114 --> 0:07:17.793 She floxd. 0:07:22.674 --> 0:07:26.394 Wuthering Heights, the brand new film directed by Emerald Fanell, 0:07:27.234 --> 0:07:31.434 starring our very own Margot Robbie and Jacob Lordie, smashed 0:07:31.634 --> 0:07:35.393 the box office in its opening weekend. But despite the 0:07:35.434 --> 0:07:37.754 hole that the film has on our culture right now, 0:07:37.834 --> 0:07:41.074 from the press tour to the fashion to the very 0:07:41.234 --> 0:07:45.554 thorny discussions about sex and power and the enduring appeal 0:07:45.594 --> 0:07:50.554 of a very bad man, reviews are mixed. I'm not 0:07:50.634 --> 0:07:53.394 sure if I have ever seen audience as this divided 0:07:53.474 --> 0:07:57.194 in terms of like even critics going from one star 0:07:57.234 --> 0:07:58.514 to five stars, right. 0:07:58.754 --> 0:08:01.194 You almost don't know how the reviewer is going to go. 0:08:01.274 --> 0:08:02.634 It's a Veggiem movie. 0:08:02.714 --> 0:08:03.074 It is. 0:08:04.674 --> 0:08:05.154 It movie? 0:08:05.314 --> 0:08:09.953 Yes, So we read Nicki Gemmel's Color in the Australian. 0:08:10.953 --> 0:08:14.194 She gave it a five star rating, saying she inhaled 0:08:14.194 --> 0:08:16.794 it with her groin was how she put it, her 0:08:16.874 --> 0:08:20.674 first five star rating ever for a film, whereas the 0:08:20.714 --> 0:08:24.314 Independent gave it one star. They said Emerald Fanell's astonishingly 0:08:24.354 --> 0:08:27.874 bad adaptation is like a limp Mills and Boon. Some 0:08:27.914 --> 0:08:31.154 say the chemistry is outstanding, others say none exists between 0:08:31.234 --> 0:08:35.154 Robbie and a Lordie. Another says Emily Bronte rolling in 0:08:35.194 --> 0:08:39.914 her grave, while another says it's Fanelle's best film to date. 0:08:40.394 --> 0:08:43.234 Now most people listening probably haven't seen it, right, It 0:08:43.274 --> 0:08:45.674 only just came out. But what we did want to 0:08:45.714 --> 0:08:49.874 talk about is the cultural phenomenon of this nineteenth century 0:08:49.914 --> 0:08:55.154 classic and the re emergence of the bad man Holly. 0:08:55.594 --> 0:08:58.354 Should you and I feel ashamed of how much we 0:08:58.434 --> 0:08:59.554 loved it with our groin? 0:08:59.754 --> 0:09:00.154 We should? 0:09:00.154 --> 0:09:00.594 Definitely. 0:09:00.834 --> 0:09:04.794 We are very bad feminists today, Jesse and I both 0:09:04.834 --> 0:09:06.874 on the record, I believe of saying that we loved it, 0:09:07.194 --> 0:09:08.914 I did love it. And I'm also on the record 0:09:08.914 --> 0:09:10.114 of saying that I also love the book. 0:09:10.874 --> 0:09:11.914 The thing that's really. 0:09:11.754 --> 0:09:15.034 Less controversially, well except if you've read the book. 0:09:15.074 --> 0:09:18.713 It's actually not less controversial because the book. People that 0:09:18.754 --> 0:09:21.434 are doing a lot of huffing about bad men after 0:09:21.474 --> 0:09:24.833 watching that and they're like, but he's mean and that 0:09:24.914 --> 0:09:28.554 relationship looks unhealthy, and I'm like, maybe you should read 0:09:28.594 --> 0:09:32.154 the book, like it gets a whole lot worse than that. 0:09:32.634 --> 0:09:34.194 Not that that's a defense, but. 0:09:34.274 --> 0:09:37.514 I think it's really interesting because there's no question the 0:09:37.554 --> 0:09:39.594 way that this movie has been marketed. One of the 0:09:39.634 --> 0:09:42.274 ways that Fanelle chose to market it was with the 0:09:42.314 --> 0:09:46.034 words the greatest love story of our time. Right now, 0:09:46.114 --> 0:09:48.154 I don't think that's ever what the book was. It's 0:09:48.194 --> 0:09:50.794 never what it was pretending to be. It's a really dark, 0:09:50.914 --> 0:09:52.754 twisted exploration. 0:09:52.234 --> 0:09:54.554 Of all kinds of seedy things, but it. 0:09:54.514 --> 0:09:58.394 Has this obsessive relationship at the heart of it. And 0:09:58.434 --> 0:10:01.874 what's really interesting is seeing people grappling with that in 0:10:01.914 --> 0:10:04.953 our culture now, where we have to absolutely unrightly in 0:10:04.994 --> 0:10:08.994 many ways disclose that we are against relationships that don't 0:10:09.034 --> 0:10:13.074 look healthy. There is nothing healthy about this relationship other 0:10:13.154 --> 0:10:18.194 than their sex. Life, which looks very healthy in the 0:10:18.194 --> 0:10:19.833 back of a carriage or up against a rock. 0:10:19.914 --> 0:10:20.834 But apart from. 0:10:20.634 --> 0:10:24.914 That, there's no question that Heathcliff is the archetype, possibly 0:10:24.914 --> 0:10:28.274 one of the original archetypes, along with other Bronte heroes 0:10:28.314 --> 0:10:33.394 like mister Rochester. For the brooding, tortured bad man. 0:10:33.994 --> 0:10:37.034 Yes that women, there was almost a tongue in cheek 0:10:37.154 --> 0:10:39.554 lusting after him that I felt like the whole theater 0:10:39.714 --> 0:10:44.674 was almost laughing at because he was yeah, yeah, Amelia, 0:10:44.754 --> 0:10:46.074 are you a five star review? 0:10:46.354 --> 0:10:49.834 No, I hated it, And I want to be clear 0:10:50.074 --> 0:10:52.794 that I'm not coming from a puritanical place, because I 0:10:52.874 --> 0:10:57.234 did enjoy Saltburn, which is for Nell's second feature and 0:10:57.274 --> 0:11:03.274 which was extremely sexual in many ways. What I object 0:11:03.314 --> 0:11:05.914 to in this is that this movie is not sexy, 0:11:06.074 --> 0:11:08.554 and yet I'm being constant told about how sexy it is. 0:11:08.634 --> 0:11:11.594 Okay, but it's just a personal choice, Like I thought 0:11:11.594 --> 0:11:12.634 it was really sexy. 0:11:12.714 --> 0:11:13.234 Do you think? 0:11:13.354 --> 0:11:14.994 And I wonder if this is what it comes down to, 0:11:15.234 --> 0:11:16.914 is whether or not you thought, because I think it's 0:11:16.994 --> 0:11:19.994 very female gaze, and it's whether or not you find 0:11:20.074 --> 0:11:23.594 Jacob Alordie to be a sex god or not, or whether. 0:11:23.394 --> 0:11:26.234 I find like raw eggs in sheets to be sexy. 0:11:26.354 --> 0:11:28.754 I think that's hard to clean up, and. 0:11:28.954 --> 0:11:31.154 About that so much about clean. 0:11:32.434 --> 0:11:35.714 And that's an issue because I've got enough laundry already. 0:11:36.434 --> 0:11:38.674 The problem is that she called it the greatest loster 0:11:38.754 --> 0:11:41.034 of our time. You know, I don't think that this 0:11:41.154 --> 0:11:44.034 book was ever meant to be a great cluster. It's 0:11:44.074 --> 0:11:48.114 an exploration of how love can yes be toxic, to 0:11:48.234 --> 0:11:51.474 use a very modern term. And it's also about race 0:11:51.794 --> 0:11:55.314 and sex and class and all these topics that basically 0:11:55.314 --> 0:11:58.034 got pushed aside on trauma just so that we could 0:11:58.114 --> 0:12:00.234 have a lot of shots of there's so much food 0:12:00.274 --> 0:12:02.434 in this movie that I'm meant to find sexy. The egg, 0:12:02.714 --> 0:12:05.434 the jelly, Margot, Robbie puts her finger in some jelly. 0:12:05.434 --> 0:12:07.834 There's a lot of jelly happening. It just made me 0:12:07.954 --> 0:12:10.514 long for baby girl. Remember Nicole Kidman's the movie where 0:12:10.554 --> 0:12:13.394 she had the affair with the younger man and he 0:12:13.554 --> 0:12:16.754 drank a glass of milk. That's sexy. Don't ask me why, 0:12:16.794 --> 0:12:17.914 but that was sexy. 0:12:18.114 --> 0:12:20.434 Yeah, I do think that was I do think that 0:12:20.474 --> 0:12:20.954 was sexy. 0:12:20.954 --> 0:12:25.314 But I have a theory about why this has been 0:12:25.514 --> 0:12:29.754 such a cultural phenomenon, right, because I mean because we've 0:12:29.754 --> 0:12:32.434 been forced to consume it like at all times for 0:12:32.474 --> 0:12:35.514 the last three months. Margot Robbie seems capable of something 0:12:35.554 --> 0:12:38.434 that just about no other actor can do, which is 0:12:38.474 --> 0:12:42.514 that she inspires a movement like Barber was a movement. 0:12:42.754 --> 0:12:47.114 This is true from fashion to conversations to everything. You 0:12:47.234 --> 0:12:49.794 just go this is what every movie whish is they 0:12:49.834 --> 0:12:50.274 could be. 0:12:50.394 --> 0:12:55.714 She's incredibly smart about so clever projects, directors, scripts like 0:12:55.754 --> 0:12:57.594 because the thing is about this is it's the Emerald 0:12:57.634 --> 0:13:01.114 finale of it all right. Yeah, Saltburn was controversial, Saltburn 0:13:01.194 --> 0:13:04.074 was over the top, Saltburn was silly. This takes all 0:13:04.114 --> 0:13:06.754 those themes and turns up to eleven. Then you add 0:13:06.754 --> 0:13:10.514 in ready made culture war argument really about whether or 0:13:10.554 --> 0:13:12.034 not this is a love story, whether or not it's 0:13:12.074 --> 0:13:14.154 good role modeling, whether or not we should have adapted 0:13:14.194 --> 0:13:16.114 a classic in the first place, And you have got 0:13:16.194 --> 0:13:18.194 an instant vibe. 0:13:18.234 --> 0:13:20.554 Well you've got another layer too, which is she just 0:13:20.634 --> 0:13:22.754 also had to look at the fact that women are 0:13:22.794 --> 0:13:26.953 reading smart in huge numbers, and that's just a ready 0:13:26.994 --> 0:13:28.194 made audience for it too. 0:13:28.314 --> 0:13:29.394 But I wonder too. 0:13:29.914 --> 0:13:32.914 My theory is that in a world that is being 0:13:33.034 --> 0:13:38.914 taken over by AI. So design to video, to ads, 0:13:39.194 --> 0:13:43.754 to fonts, to films to whatever, there's a almost like 0:13:43.794 --> 0:13:45.634 a banality to a lot of it that is all 0:13:45.674 --> 0:13:48.593 starting to look the same. They say that AI generated 0:13:48.634 --> 0:13:51.834 means that all writing starts to sound the same. That 0:13:51.874 --> 0:13:56.354 sort of thing in order to cut through the genre 0:13:56.434 --> 0:13:59.674 that seems to be as sending right now is absurdist. 0:14:00.074 --> 0:14:02.234 So the best comedy show I saw last year was 0:14:02.234 --> 0:14:08.114 the most absurd, ridiculous, unexplainable thing and had nudity in it, 0:14:08.154 --> 0:14:09.994 and it was whatever happened in that room could never 0:14:10.034 --> 0:14:11.874 be replicated again. And I was like, oh, this is 0:14:11.914 --> 0:14:15.514 the anti AI revoultion Gary Starr and he does this 0:14:15.554 --> 0:14:18.114 Penguin classic show. It's coming back to Australia. You have 0:14:18.154 --> 0:14:19.514 to see it, and it's gone around the world and 0:14:19.514 --> 0:14:23.314 it's won every award right, And I just think that 0:14:23.434 --> 0:14:30.674 watching this I went there is something so ridiculous, over 0:14:30.714 --> 0:14:31.594 the top. 0:14:32.114 --> 0:14:33.634 Edgy, weird. 0:14:34.354 --> 0:14:39.714 Even kinks like AI can't predict the weirdness of human kinks, right, 0:14:40.314 --> 0:14:42.394 And so I think that that's part of what we're 0:14:42.434 --> 0:14:45.194 just loving. And it's Marty Supreme falls into the same category, 0:14:45.194 --> 0:14:48.874 which is just this weirdness that a robot could never. 0:14:48.834 --> 0:14:50.514 I think it's like, if I'm going to leave my 0:14:50.594 --> 0:14:53.434 house and I'm going to go sit in a theater. 0:14:53.274 --> 0:14:54.914 For too long, let's be on the record with that. 0:14:55.034 --> 0:14:57.154 Like my main complaint if I have a complaint about 0:14:57.194 --> 0:14:59.554 this movie is it could have easily shaved past for 0:14:59.554 --> 0:15:01.554 an hour and nobody it would have been fine. But 0:15:01.634 --> 0:15:03.474 if I'm going to go and do that, what I 0:15:03.514 --> 0:15:05.474 want is an experience. And now I want a good time. 0:15:05.554 --> 0:15:08.074 And I got that with Marty Supreme. I was in 0:15:08.114 --> 0:15:10.834 that movie theater like kind of it wasn't a perfect film, 0:15:10.874 --> 0:15:12.154 but I was gasping. 0:15:12.474 --> 0:15:16.314 I was like, no way, it was unpredictability and this 0:15:16.474 --> 0:15:16.914 was the same. 0:15:17.314 --> 0:15:19.314 I got a really good time in that room. I 0:15:19.354 --> 0:15:20.754 just want to go back to Bad Men for a 0:15:20.754 --> 0:15:22.594 moment because I'm seeing a lot of hot takes. I 0:15:22.594 --> 0:15:24.514 think we might be putting on on Mamma Mia today 0:15:24.634 --> 0:15:27.634 about how we all need to remember that in real 0:15:27.674 --> 0:15:30.634 life Heathcliffs are bad and they are right, there is 0:15:30.674 --> 0:15:33.554 no question right. The archetype of that man who loves 0:15:33.594 --> 0:15:36.874 you so much he will do anything for you, you know, 0:15:36.994 --> 0:15:40.114 including hurt everyone in the world, including you, and himself 0:15:40.114 --> 0:15:44.834 and everything in fantasy is great. In reality, as those 0:15:44.874 --> 0:15:49.634 of us who've had the misfortune to experience it is toxic, controlling, awful, 0:15:49.754 --> 0:15:52.954 veers into violence, not to be encouraged. But let's give 0:15:52.994 --> 0:15:56.394 women the respect of knowing that they're smart and they 0:15:56.434 --> 0:15:58.954 know the difference between fantasy and reality. I think we've 0:15:58.954 --> 0:16:03.554 been talking heats lately about obsessive fandoms, like around heated rivalry, 0:16:03.794 --> 0:16:07.874 around pop music, around all kinds of things. There's something 0:16:08.034 --> 0:16:12.114 about female desire that can be very powerful and obsessive, 0:16:12.554 --> 0:16:15.434 and we're always looking for like safe places to put that. 0:16:16.154 --> 0:16:19.474 And I think it's okay for us to lose ourselves 0:16:19.514 --> 0:16:22.074 in a heathcliff for a couple of hours and for 0:16:22.114 --> 0:16:25.474 it not to mean that we really wish that we 0:16:25.514 --> 0:16:27.794 are in a terrible, controlling, abusive relationship. 0:16:27.834 --> 0:16:29.474 I think we've got that. 0:16:29.714 --> 0:16:31.834 And when women are making their own art, which this 0:16:32.034 --> 0:16:35.674 is written by a woman, produced by a woman, directed 0:16:35.674 --> 0:16:38.634 by a woman, and it's playing with these dangerous tropes, 0:16:38.674 --> 0:16:39.994 I think that's fine. 0:16:40.114 --> 0:16:42.274 Do you think it's also a bit of a backlash 0:16:42.674 --> 0:16:47.674 to a trend we've had over films, certainly since Me Too, 0:16:47.714 --> 0:16:51.354 but longer than that, which are didactic in a lot 0:16:51.354 --> 0:16:55.154 of ways about how our relationships ought to look feminist overtones, 0:16:55.194 --> 0:16:58.594 which is great, but the pendulum seems to have swung 0:16:58.634 --> 0:17:01.034 a little bit and gone, what if we were to 0:17:01.074 --> 0:17:03.714 just lean into the naughtiness which we saw with fifty Shades? 0:17:03.754 --> 0:17:08.114 That absolutely worked, how provocative it is, and I think 0:17:08.194 --> 0:17:10.434 that's why there were moments where everyone was laughing because 0:17:10.474 --> 0:17:13.194 they were just like, we know that this isn't good 0:17:13.274 --> 0:17:16.234 for us, but can't we just look at it and 0:17:17.394 --> 0:17:20.234 think that Jacob a Lordie looks hot with his shirt? 0:17:20.394 --> 0:17:23.554 Laughter was more we were embarrassed because there's so much 0:17:23.754 --> 0:17:27.554 repression in that movie. The movie is about like subliminating 0:17:27.594 --> 0:17:31.434 sexual desire into things like egg yolks or aspect, you know. 0:17:31.674 --> 0:17:34.194 And I think that we're embarrassed on behalf of the 0:17:34.234 --> 0:17:36.394 people in it because we know how hard they were 0:17:36.434 --> 0:17:38.114 pressing their true emotions. 0:17:38.314 --> 0:17:40.234 Was part of why you didn't like it that you 0:17:40.394 --> 0:17:44.834 felt as though it was like dangerous for women, Like 0:17:44.914 --> 0:17:45.994 did you think that it was. 0:17:46.074 --> 0:17:48.834 A bit yeah, a bit, yeah, Yeah, I think that's true. 0:17:48.914 --> 0:17:51.674 I thought it was a little bit like you will 0:17:51.714 --> 0:17:55.114 find this sexy, and you know what's not sexy? People 0:17:55.154 --> 0:17:59.474 telling you incessantly that something is sexy like that problem. 0:17:59.834 --> 0:18:02.714 Also women on a homogeneous blop like some of us 0:18:02.754 --> 0:18:04.874 will find that very sexy and some of us will not. 0:18:04.994 --> 0:18:07.634 Some of us will be thinking about a lordie lifting 0:18:07.674 --> 0:18:09.434 her up by a corset strings, and some of us 0:18:09.514 --> 0:18:09.834 will not. 0:18:10.034 --> 0:18:11.834 I also couldn't understand what he was saying a lot 0:18:11.834 --> 0:18:16.634 of the time. It was to being and I was like, 0:18:16.674 --> 0:18:19.194 I'm sorry, Jacob, what what did you just say? 0:18:19.554 --> 0:18:21.594 Maybe this part of why this is my movie is 0:18:21.634 --> 0:18:22.593 that Yorkshire accent. 0:18:22.874 --> 0:18:27.874 Oh my god, it was really good. I just think 0:18:27.914 --> 0:18:30.194 it's like these heroes pop up. 0:18:30.234 --> 0:18:32.634 We know they're bad for us, Edward and Twilight, Noah 0:18:32.714 --> 0:18:34.994 in the notebook, they'll be think pieces about like girls. 0:18:35.034 --> 0:18:36.474 Remember I'm working. 0:18:36.674 --> 0:18:38.074 You don't want a heath click, and. 0:18:38.034 --> 0:18:40.634 That's fine, you actually do not want to hear I 0:18:40.634 --> 0:18:44.394 will be on the record, but it's okay. Lose yourself 0:18:44.474 --> 0:18:45.794 in it for a couple of hours. 0:18:45.834 --> 0:18:46.714 I completely agree. 0:18:46.834 --> 0:18:47.274 Loved it. 0:18:47.674 --> 0:18:50.033 If you have seen Weathering heights, or if you were 0:18:50.074 --> 0:18:51.874 wondering whether or not to see Weathering heights, we are 0:18:51.914 --> 0:18:53.954 going to go I'm not going to say deep I was. 0:18:54.114 --> 0:18:55.954 We're going to say deep in amiliates like don't. I'm like, 0:18:55.994 --> 0:18:56.514 you're fair. 0:18:57.394 --> 0:19:00.354 We are going to go in depth into Wathering Heights 0:19:00.394 --> 0:19:03.634 with Mia tomorrow, Amelia and myself. Amelia didn't like it, 0:19:03.714 --> 0:19:05.594 me who loved it. But also a bit of behind 0:19:05.594 --> 0:19:07.914 the scenes gossip, a bit of industry stuff, a bit of. 0:19:07.994 --> 0:19:10.354 Margo, a bit of all that stuff. 0:19:10.394 --> 0:19:13.914 All on tomorrow's subscriber episode stilled by our very own 0:19:13.994 --> 0:19:14.553 ma of Friedman. 0:19:15.554 --> 0:19:19.034 After the break, the substack about beauty routines, which has 0:19:19.074 --> 0:19:29.273 me thinking that none of this is fun anymore. I 0:19:29.434 --> 0:19:32.273 like reading fashion substacks by people with better taste than 0:19:32.314 --> 0:19:34.074 me so I can figure out what to wear. It's 0:19:34.154 --> 0:19:35.754 kind of a guilty pleasure of mine. And one of 0:19:35.794 --> 0:19:38.714 them is called Magazine, and it's written by a woman 0:19:38.874 --> 0:19:41.513 named Laura Riley. Now I looked up her age before this, 0:19:41.674 --> 0:19:44.274 but she doesn't disclose her age, which gosh, I wish 0:19:44.314 --> 0:19:47.274 I didn't disclose my age. But it's very much out 0:19:47.314 --> 0:19:49.354 there if you'd like to find out what it is anyway, 0:19:49.394 --> 0:19:51.314 If I had to guess, she's probably in her late thirties, 0:19:51.674 --> 0:19:55.594 and she wrote something recently which kind of depressed me 0:19:55.754 --> 0:19:58.594 and made me never want to read about people's skincare 0:19:58.634 --> 0:20:03.114 routines again. She wrote the following in January alone. I've 0:20:03.154 --> 0:20:09.874 done botox, m face IPL scheduled moxy broadband, seeing my orthodontist, cardiologist, 0:20:10.074 --> 0:20:16.594 gp obg wyn, ophthalmologist, dermatologists, plastic surgeon, trainer, and Polate's instructor. 0:20:17.154 --> 0:20:20.314 I've renewed my health insurance and MEDSPA membership. I don't 0:20:20.354 --> 0:20:23.954 know what a medspy ownership is. I've drawn blood three times, 0:20:24.154 --> 0:20:26.794 that's too many times to draw blood and given two 0:20:26.994 --> 0:20:30.594 urine samples. My current skincare routine is six to eight steps. 0:20:30.594 --> 0:20:34.234 My daily supplement stack is seventeen pills, twenty on mondays 0:20:34.394 --> 0:20:37.674 and a peptide. And I've engaged at least five high 0:20:37.674 --> 0:20:41.194 tech tools from my home device library. I've tracked every 0:20:41.234 --> 0:20:44.874 meal macro and relevant micro nutrient. I still do all 0:20:44.914 --> 0:20:47.874 of this macro macro. It's not the question I had 0:20:47.874 --> 0:20:50.273 for breakfast this morning. All of this, and I consider 0:20:50.354 --> 0:20:52.754 myself pretty healthy and not hypochondriac. 0:20:53.674 --> 0:20:56.634 So, my god, I just does she have a job. 0:20:58.714 --> 0:21:00.474 I just thought, is this. 0:21:00.434 --> 0:21:01.554 What we're doing now? 0:21:01.634 --> 0:21:01.954 Holly? 0:21:02.634 --> 0:21:04.514 How are you going? Are you doing this? Well? 0:21:04.554 --> 0:21:05.474 It is what we're doing now. 0:21:05.474 --> 0:21:07.634 It's not what I'm doing now, but I've I'm doing 0:21:07.674 --> 0:21:09.594 well if I've got like a serum and a moisturizer, 0:21:09.634 --> 0:21:12.074 and I might look at me go, but this is 0:21:12.074 --> 0:21:15.674 everywhere I'm looking. At the moment, I was on my Instagram. 0:21:15.914 --> 0:21:19.114 On my Instagram Emma Greed, Who's somebody I like to follow. 0:21:19.194 --> 0:21:21.434 She is, you know, the Skim's Boss lady, who's like 0:21:21.474 --> 0:21:24.154 the archetype of the girl boss of the moment. She's 0:21:24.154 --> 0:21:25.914 just got had a book out about it and stuff. 0:21:26.234 --> 0:21:30.074 She posted her regimen, like just her supplements regiment. She 0:21:30.234 --> 0:21:34.354 takes sixteen different pills every day, some of the morning, 0:21:34.354 --> 0:21:37.154 some for night, which is something I'm suddenly seeing everywhere. Yeah, 0:21:37.554 --> 0:21:39.874 the discussion about it and then all these different pills 0:21:39.874 --> 0:21:40.394 and potions. 0:21:40.674 --> 0:21:41.474 Some of it is. 0:21:41.474 --> 0:21:44.794 Under the guise of longevity, which is something I'm seeing 0:21:44.834 --> 0:21:46.793 a lot, particularly with women at the minute. We all 0:21:46.874 --> 0:21:50.034 know that the longevity craze kind of really started taking 0:21:50.034 --> 0:21:52.394 hold in the bro culture of Silicon Valley, but now 0:21:52.514 --> 0:21:55.754 it's very much kind of merging with beauty standards to 0:21:55.794 --> 0:21:59.674 become something women a I ungenerously think it's the new 0:22:00.074 --> 0:22:02.634 You can't say anti aging anymore, because we've all got 0:22:02.674 --> 0:22:07.834 to be age positive, but longevity sounds in a positive 0:22:07.834 --> 0:22:10.594 and healthy but really it's the same and I'm seeing 0:22:10.594 --> 0:22:14.793 this everywhere, as well as the Miranda Curz, the Trinny 0:22:14.794 --> 0:22:17.914 Goodles of it all who are wearing their what's Triny doing? 0:22:18.074 --> 0:22:20.634 She took a picture of herself in the morning the 0:22:20.634 --> 0:22:23.234 other day wearing her infra red mask, some kind of 0:22:23.354 --> 0:22:26.754 helmet that had red light underneath it. She was like, 0:22:26.954 --> 0:22:31.794 just all of these ye like Mia has, and she's 0:22:31.834 --> 0:22:32.954 just getting about her day. 0:22:32.834 --> 0:22:36.754 Looking It's like a board that you stand on that 0:22:36.834 --> 0:22:39.834 apparently is good for bone density, and it just it's 0:22:39.874 --> 0:22:41.154 like a vibrating. 0:22:40.674 --> 0:22:42.114 Boarde the emint to stand on. 0:22:42.834 --> 0:22:44.833 I mean, I don't even know where to start, because 0:22:45.034 --> 0:22:48.194 the first thing when you read out all of those 0:22:48.234 --> 0:22:50.874 appointments and all the people I've seen, is the conflation 0:22:51.194 --> 0:22:56.474 of beauty and health. Like seeing your GP is not 0:22:56.754 --> 0:23:01.073 the same as seeing a facialist. They are just completely 0:23:01.114 --> 0:23:04.194 different things. The other thing I noticed was the use 0:23:04.234 --> 0:23:10.474 of my GP my ophthalmologist begyn, which indicates you can't 0:23:10.474 --> 0:23:13.274 talk about this stuff without going There is such enormous privilege, 0:23:13.274 --> 0:23:16.994 particularly in the States, of having your own specialist doctors, 0:23:17.034 --> 0:23:21.914 like most people who genuinely have a heart issue, would 0:23:21.994 --> 0:23:25.154 struggle to pay for cardiologists, Like the healthcare system is 0:23:25.194 --> 0:23:29.194 totally broken, and I like cringe at the idea of 0:23:29.234 --> 0:23:31.994 her having a cardiologist to go and check that her 0:23:31.994 --> 0:23:34.314 thirty something year old heart is great. 0:23:34.794 --> 0:23:37.194 I think it's status, right, A status. 0:23:37.194 --> 0:23:41.194 Emma Read's massive collection of pills and potions is status. 0:23:41.234 --> 0:23:43.234 She has so many of them that, according to that 0:23:43.274 --> 0:23:47.874 Instagram caption, she pays her child to organize her supplements 0:23:47.914 --> 0:23:48.314 for her. 0:23:49.114 --> 0:23:51.954 And I think it's like, what what is all this about? 0:23:52.154 --> 0:23:54.634 Is it about an ultimate fear of death, which is 0:23:54.754 --> 0:24:00.154 like the longevity science stuff. I find the rhetoric of 0:24:00.234 --> 0:24:03.234 like scientific language around this to be a little bit 0:24:03.794 --> 0:24:06.674 disingenuous because it's like you're just putting goo on your face. 0:24:06.674 --> 0:24:12.114 What all of this is about is about looking hot. Yes, 0:24:12.594 --> 0:24:16.954 it's just vanity. Because there's a term for what this 0:24:17.114 --> 0:24:20.834 is called, and it looks maxing. And the definition of 0:24:20.874 --> 0:24:24.714 looks maxing is trying to raise your social, your sexual 0:24:24.794 --> 0:24:29.834 market value by optimizing your attractiveness. This is absolutely something 0:24:29.874 --> 0:24:30.914 Heathcliff would have loved. 0:24:31.354 --> 0:24:33.313 But I was going to say, that's not a new idea. 0:24:33.394 --> 0:24:35.274 We've just got all these new ways to do it right, 0:24:35.274 --> 0:24:37.874 so hot people have always enjoyed a lot of status. 0:24:38.114 --> 0:24:40.594 There was a line in that in that substack that 0:24:40.714 --> 0:24:44.594 was like, my group chats are planning out cos medical tourism, 0:24:44.874 --> 0:24:46.554 and I bet yours are too, And. 0:24:46.514 --> 0:24:47.474 I was like, is this satire? 0:24:47.554 --> 0:24:48.034 This is a funny. 0:24:48.034 --> 0:24:50.874 I'm not in your group chat, but is that what 0:24:50.874 --> 0:24:51.714 you're talking about? 0:24:52.234 --> 0:24:54.434 Generally, it's trying to find a tie place for dinner. 0:24:54.594 --> 0:24:56.674 It's not looking at where we're going to go in 0:24:56.674 --> 0:24:58.874 the world to get some ridiculous new face. 0:24:58.994 --> 0:25:01.794 But the key thing is that men are getting involved 0:25:01.834 --> 0:25:05.434 in this now too. And there's a guy called Clovicula. 0:25:05.594 --> 0:25:08.313 I kept seeing this word and just it was a 0:25:08.354 --> 0:25:10.474 news story that I wanted to opt out of. But 0:25:10.514 --> 0:25:12.234 in the end I just had to read about him 0:25:12.274 --> 0:25:15.754 because I kept seeing him everywhere. He is a young 0:25:15.834 --> 0:25:19.154 man who gets his name because apparently the length of 0:25:19.194 --> 0:25:22.234 his clavicle is ideal. If you'd like to know what 0:25:22.274 --> 0:25:24.513 it is, it's nineteen point five inches. I don't know 0:25:24.554 --> 0:25:26.994 what that is in metric. And the other reason why 0:25:27.034 --> 0:25:30.074 apparently he's really handsome is because his chin to filterrim 0:25:30.194 --> 0:25:33.354 ratio is two point six. The filterrim is those two 0:25:33.434 --> 0:25:34.634 lines underneath your nose. 0:25:34.754 --> 0:25:36.234 So this is like that golden ratio. 0:25:37.274 --> 0:25:41.234 Yeah yeah, And so he is apparently like the perfect man. 0:25:41.394 --> 0:25:43.954 I'm putting this all in quote marks, just like Emerald 0:25:43.994 --> 0:25:46.634 Vanell with Wuthering Heights. He's meant to be the most 0:25:46.674 --> 0:25:49.194 handsome man. He earns more than one hundred thousand dollars 0:25:49.234 --> 0:25:51.273 a month teaching men how to be handsome, and he 0:25:51.314 --> 0:25:54.434 promises them that if they follow everything, they're going to 0:25:54.474 --> 0:25:57.754 get a lot of sleave maxing. Yes, slave maxing that 0:25:57.874 --> 0:26:02.114 means a lot of sex like slag axing. No, I'm sorry, 0:26:02.274 --> 0:26:04.154 we live in twenty twenty six. What do you want 0:26:04.154 --> 0:26:06.313 from me? This is why Wuthering Heights is such a 0:26:06.314 --> 0:26:07.354 blessed a scale. 0:26:07.314 --> 0:26:08.074 It really is. 0:26:08.274 --> 0:26:12.914 It is a full time job. Like the intensive labor 0:26:13.154 --> 0:26:16.474 involved in this is out of control. 0:26:16.514 --> 0:26:20.114 Okay, but Devil's Advocate. Isn't it a good thing now 0:26:20.194 --> 0:26:24.033 that men are also being hemmed in and oppressed by 0:26:24.034 --> 0:26:24.914 beauty standards? 0:26:24.954 --> 0:26:29.793 Welcome to our hell, right. I know it's not like 0:26:30.114 --> 0:26:32.674 I'm joking, because I do sometimes get a little bit 0:26:32.754 --> 0:26:35.754 I'm gonna say it wrong, shash and freud. It's one 0:26:35.754 --> 0:26:42.314 of the out loud words we can't say shut when 0:26:42.354 --> 0:26:44.394 I see this because I'm like, yeah, men, we have 0:26:44.434 --> 0:26:47.394 been dealing with this forever. And there is also an 0:26:47.594 --> 0:26:50.994 argument that we've kind of danced around before, which is 0:26:50.994 --> 0:26:54.273 isn't it good that now the effort that people are 0:26:54.314 --> 0:26:57.994 putting in the effort the cost the energy cost that 0:26:57.994 --> 0:27:00.594 they're putting in, Because there's the literal cost, But then 0:27:00.594 --> 0:27:03.314 there is the time, the list that you read out earlier, 0:27:03.474 --> 0:27:06.434 Amelia of what that writer is doing, the amount of 0:27:06.434 --> 0:27:10.273 time and thought and priority that other things that have 0:27:10.354 --> 0:27:13.594 to be pushed aside for that. In a way, there's 0:27:13.594 --> 0:27:16.794 something almost healthy about that, because we used to all 0:27:16.834 --> 0:27:20.634 have to pretend that beauty was effortless, and the most 0:27:20.714 --> 0:27:23.954 high status beauty was always effortless beauty, and like being 0:27:24.034 --> 0:27:27.634 born blessed to look like Giselle was kind of the 0:27:27.714 --> 0:27:32.114 pinnacle of status. Whereas now it can be bought. It 0:27:32.154 --> 0:27:33.954 can be bought in lots of ways. It can be 0:27:33.994 --> 0:27:36.434 brought with the surgeon, it can be bought with medications, 0:27:36.474 --> 0:27:39.554 it can be bought with tweakments and serums and injectables, 0:27:40.474 --> 0:27:43.274 and so that's kind of democratizing, and it also pulls 0:27:43.314 --> 0:27:45.033 the curtain back a bit. It makes me think all 0:27:45.034 --> 0:27:46.034 the time. I have this boyfriend. 0:27:46.034 --> 0:27:48.554 Once he probably was a bit toxic, little bit Heathcliff, 0:27:48.594 --> 0:27:49.994 not all the way Heathcliff, little bit. 0:27:50.114 --> 0:27:52.394 Who I remember him describing this woman once and saying 0:27:52.434 --> 0:27:54.273 how hot she was, And he said, I love the 0:27:54.274 --> 0:27:56.273 way her hair's like falling out of her bun. And 0:27:56.314 --> 0:27:59.073 then he said, unless she's done that on purpose. If 0:27:59.154 --> 0:28:01.834 she's done that on purpose, not hot anymore, Like you 0:28:01.834 --> 0:28:04.994 know what I mean. So the effortlessness and that oh 0:28:05.034 --> 0:28:06.914 I just happened to be gorgeous used to be the 0:28:06.874 --> 0:28:09.554 beauty standard, and now it feels like the beauty standard 0:28:09.674 --> 0:28:13.553 is I have created this version of myself. Look how 0:28:13.594 --> 0:28:14.634 hard I've worked at it. 0:28:15.354 --> 0:28:17.994 I reckon it's more sinister because I think implicit within 0:28:18.034 --> 0:28:22.313 it is that looking after yourself is a virtue. And 0:28:22.394 --> 0:28:25.114 I find that and maybe it's my Catholic roots showing 0:28:25.154 --> 0:28:28.354 and that it's visible. Yes, if you are spending eight 0:28:28.394 --> 0:28:32.033 hours a day trying to be let's all be honest hotter, 0:28:32.874 --> 0:28:35.154 I think that's a I don't want to say, a 0:28:35.274 --> 0:28:38.634 moral failing, although maybe that is what I mean. I 0:28:38.634 --> 0:28:40.474 don't think that's good. I don't think it's good for 0:28:40.514 --> 0:28:42.354 you I don't think it's good for humanity. I don't 0:28:42.354 --> 0:28:42.834 think it's good for. 0:28:42.794 --> 0:28:45.474 The world, point taken. But I still want to know 0:28:45.554 --> 0:28:47.634 why it isn't a good thing that men are now 0:28:47.674 --> 0:28:49.714 having to do the same stuff that we've had to 0:28:49.754 --> 0:28:52.514 do for millennia. Why isn't that good that now men 0:28:52.554 --> 0:28:53.754 are also engaged? 0:28:53.834 --> 0:28:56.794 I like saying, well, now everybody's miserable, so that's better? 0:28:57.034 --> 0:28:58.514 And is it better? 0:28:58.514 --> 0:29:00.194 Wouldn't it be better if we were working more in 0:29:00.194 --> 0:29:03.554 the other direction to make everybody a little less veserable. 0:29:03.194 --> 0:29:05.114 So a little less attractive and happy? 0:29:05.354 --> 0:29:08.554 I was thinking about I'm very deep in Married at 0:29:08.554 --> 0:29:11.154 First Sight this season, and we've talked about this before, 0:29:11.234 --> 0:29:14.914 but the code word for everyone who's dating, the code 0:29:14.954 --> 0:29:17.474 that they speak in is they say, I just want 0:29:17.514 --> 0:29:20.834 someone who looks after themselves. Oh yeah, men and women 0:29:20.874 --> 0:29:22.394 say it completely catally. 0:29:23.194 --> 0:29:24.874 So what does that mean. 0:29:25.154 --> 0:29:27.794 It means that they're slim, and it means that they're hot, 0:29:28.274 --> 0:29:30.954 and it means that they hopefully have got their teeth done, 0:29:30.954 --> 0:29:35.274 they've got some veneers, they exercise, they eat, blah blah blah. 0:29:35.234 --> 0:29:37.914 I say, we think we can see healthy on people's faces, 0:29:37.914 --> 0:29:41.074 but we really want to Yeah, Yeah, they look like 0:29:41.114 --> 0:29:42.794 they've spent a lot of time fiddling with. 0:29:42.794 --> 0:29:45.074 And so what does that mean for people who up down? 0:29:45.634 --> 0:29:48.994 What does that mean for people who go that's not happen. 0:29:50.394 --> 0:29:53.594 That's what it means. 0:29:53.994 --> 0:29:56.434 If I have to call it sleive maxing, I'm happy 0:29:56.474 --> 0:29:58.034 to leave it up the shelf and just watch. 0:30:02.114 --> 0:30:04.954 There is something a little bit sinister about it too. 0:30:05.794 --> 0:30:08.794 I need to mention that bit killer he's been hanging 0:30:08.794 --> 0:30:09.954 out with some Nazis. 0:30:10.914 --> 0:30:13.434 I feel like there's a line there, like there's a 0:30:13.434 --> 0:30:16.474 bit is it a bit veering into eugenics? 0:30:16.514 --> 0:30:18.634 Like is there something that's a bit are we optimizing? 0:30:18.874 --> 0:30:19.034 Yes? 0:30:19.154 --> 0:30:19.554 So much. 0:30:19.794 --> 0:30:22.394 You're right, because you know, there was a Looks Maxer 0:30:22.514 --> 0:30:25.154 Influenza who was a man who was black, and he 0:30:25.234 --> 0:30:29.794 was basically hounded off platforms last year because people who 0:30:29.914 --> 0:30:35.354 are into looks Maxing are only into white looks maxes. 0:30:35.514 --> 0:30:38.674 Yeah. Right, So there's this particular aesthetic. Emmigreed is of 0:30:38.674 --> 0:30:40.794 course a woman of color, but other than that, the 0:30:40.914 --> 0:30:44.834 looks Maxing thing seems to be very skinny, rich white lady. 0:30:44.874 --> 0:30:46.794 You know what's funny about it? And this is very 0:30:47.034 --> 0:30:48.954 problematic to say, but I'm just going to say it 0:30:48.994 --> 0:30:52.074 is that when the perfect man who's created his perfect 0:30:52.114 --> 0:30:52.874 dimensions with. 0:30:52.874 --> 0:30:54.714 His you know, his chin measures. 0:30:54.834 --> 0:30:58.034 I want to him so bad, but you know, maybe 0:30:58.074 --> 0:31:00.674 it's all created by surgery. Maybe it's all self improvement, 0:31:00.714 --> 0:31:04.114 self care. And he and the perfect looks Maxing woman, 0:31:04.594 --> 0:31:06.314 you know, they fall in love and they love each 0:31:06.314 --> 0:31:06.994 other very much. 0:31:07.194 --> 0:31:11.274 They make a baby. That baby's gonna look fucking ordinary because. 0:31:12.634 --> 0:31:14.794 And then if you start with the looks maxing too, 0:31:15.034 --> 0:31:17.434 that they have to look back to their children because 0:31:17.434 --> 0:31:19.634 they can't be gone around with a that attractive child. 0:31:19.754 --> 0:31:22.674 I think it's realing, But you've hit on something really 0:31:22.714 --> 0:31:26.034 interesting about what the end goal of the looks Maxes is. 0:31:26.194 --> 0:31:30.074 Because I'm talking primarily here about the male looks maxes. 0:31:30.114 --> 0:31:33.554 I think women understand that if in fact you are attractive, 0:31:33.634 --> 0:31:35.834 you get more out of life in terms of like 0:31:35.874 --> 0:31:38.034 you're paid more, and you get more attention from the 0:31:38.154 --> 0:31:40.394 opposite sex and so on. I think for men in 0:31:40.434 --> 0:31:42.634 particular who are into looks Maxing, they talk a lot 0:31:42.634 --> 0:31:45.594 about the attention of women and the fact that how 0:31:45.594 --> 0:31:47.114 do you get the attention of women? How do you 0:31:47.194 --> 0:31:49.594 slay max Again, I'm so sorry that I keep using 0:31:49.634 --> 0:31:53.354 that word, but it's not about finding like a woman 0:31:53.354 --> 0:31:56.154 who they can perhaps be happy with, build a life with, 0:31:56.514 --> 0:32:00.314 like really connect with on a spiritual level. I think 0:32:00.514 --> 0:32:03.714 that's what they're going for. I think it is more 0:32:03.794 --> 0:32:07.874 about just getting the attention of as many women as possible, 0:32:07.954 --> 0:32:10.074 almost to sort of then boast about it to other 0:32:10.114 --> 0:32:10.914 looks Maxes. 0:32:11.434 --> 0:32:14.354 Yeah, it's not about a deep, enduring relationship. 0:32:14.394 --> 0:32:15.994 I also worry, I think so. 0:32:15.794 --> 0:32:18.594 That if a looks maxa looks at me, I worry 0:32:18.594 --> 0:32:22.034 about what they'll say, because I'll say points that could 0:32:22.034 --> 0:32:22.714 be optimized. 0:32:22.954 --> 0:32:24.674 I remember when I was last single. 0:32:25.114 --> 0:32:27.074 I remember a friend of mine fixed me up with 0:32:27.114 --> 0:32:29.914 a guy who this was way before the term was coined, 0:32:29.914 --> 0:32:32.074 but he was definitely a looks max like always in 0:32:32.114 --> 0:32:34.994 the gym, very sweetly fragrance. 0:32:37.434 --> 0:32:39.314 Wish I'd got the rule around the time. 0:32:39.594 --> 0:32:41.754 And one of my friends fixed me up with him 0:32:41.794 --> 0:32:44.274 on like a day and it was clearly never gonna whatever. 0:32:44.994 --> 0:32:48.274 And her partner said to me one time after he 0:32:48.354 --> 0:32:50.194 had a drink, he was like, well, it was never 0:32:50.274 --> 0:32:51.794 gonna work, Like he. 0:32:51.674 --> 0:32:53.474 Really cares about what he looks like. 0:32:55.034 --> 0:32:56.954 And the thing is that was true, Like it was 0:32:57.034 --> 0:32:58.554 kind of like out at the time, but it was 0:32:58.594 --> 0:33:01.114 also true he cared about what he looked like a 0:33:01.154 --> 0:33:03.474 great deal, and obviously I care about what I look like. 0:33:03.514 --> 0:33:06.074 But there's a line I'm not prepared. 0:33:05.674 --> 0:33:08.594 To spend that much time, that that's much energy, that 0:33:08.714 --> 0:33:09.834 much risk, Like I'm just. 0:33:09.834 --> 0:33:13.074 So that's another interesting dynamic with the looks Maxis and 0:33:13.114 --> 0:33:15.274 the fact that they desperately want the attention of women, 0:33:15.354 --> 0:33:19.834 because I do think that heterosexual women struggle, well, I'm 0:33:19.874 --> 0:33:23.314 sure actually non heterosexual women also struggle with the concept 0:33:23.354 --> 0:33:26.914 of male vanity. It's a bit of a taboo in fact, 0:33:27.034 --> 0:33:29.434 men are not meant to care about what they look like, 0:33:29.674 --> 0:33:32.234 particularly when it comes to women, And maybe that's what 0:33:32.274 --> 0:33:33.674 they're sort of breaking down here. 0:33:34.474 --> 0:33:37.674 After the break, I have got some scorellous celebrity gossip 0:33:37.754 --> 0:33:40.234 that all teams with a particular. 0:33:39.714 --> 0:33:46.914 Theme out loud as it's mea you've heard Jesse, Holly 0:33:46.954 --> 0:33:50.754 and Amelia's Wathering Heights bad man theory. But there's more 0:33:50.794 --> 0:33:54.354 to unpack, including gossip about the premiere and who was 0:33:54.394 --> 0:33:56.834 who on the red carpet and why we've got a 0:33:56.834 --> 0:33:59.794 little bit of beef within the pod. Anyway, for tomorrow's 0:33:59.794 --> 0:34:02.394 subscriber episode, I'm going to tell you all about it. 0:34:02.594 --> 0:34:05.714 I'm sitting down with Whole and Amelia to unpack everything 0:34:05.754 --> 0:34:08.513 they thought about Margo and Jacob. So if you're not 0:34:08.554 --> 0:34:11.354 already a subscriber, you're going to forget, So follow the 0:34:11.393 --> 0:34:12.953 link in the show notes to get us in your 0:34:12.994 --> 0:34:14.513 ears five days a week. 0:34:14.834 --> 0:34:17.553 Right now, I'm bringing. 0:34:17.194 --> 0:34:20.554 The show home today with a scorelous gossip roundup that 0:34:20.634 --> 0:34:23.154 has a theme. We are teaming with a theme. How 0:34:23.194 --> 0:34:26.874 the hell are we handling tricky relationship moments on social 0:34:26.914 --> 0:34:30.834 media these days? In twenty twenty six, I start with 0:34:30.954 --> 0:34:35.834 the excellent Australian content creator, comedian actress Celeste Barber right 0:34:36.314 --> 0:34:39.874 on Friday, her hot husband and that's what he's always 0:34:39.874 --> 0:34:42.754 been known as. I'm not OBJECTI find the man. Appy 0:34:42.834 --> 0:34:46.394 Robin posted that after twenty years together and two kids, 0:34:46.714 --> 0:34:50.594 they have agreed to separate. He wrote, the past few 0:34:50.594 --> 0:34:53.874 months have been incredibly challenging and deeply heartbreaking for us both. 0:34:53.954 --> 0:34:56.754 After much reflection, the decision has been made to separate. 0:34:57.034 --> 0:34:59.354 There are still love and respect between us, but sadly 0:34:59.434 --> 0:35:01.913 we are at capacity and have come to recognize we 0:35:01.994 --> 0:35:05.354 may want for different things. Our priority remains our children 0:35:05.354 --> 0:35:08.873 and they're well being. We kindly for privacy and understanding 0:35:08.914 --> 0:35:12.114 as we navigate this. Obviously, the comments section gave a 0:35:12.114 --> 0:35:14.194 lot of privacy and understanding. 0:35:14.714 --> 0:35:17.274 Colley, can I just check did Celeste post as well? 0:35:17.594 --> 0:35:20.314 So this is what's quite interesting about this. Appy has 0:35:20.354 --> 0:35:23.354 two hundred and eighty eight thousand followers, a lot of followers, 0:35:23.354 --> 0:35:25.634 and he has in his bio now formerly known as 0:35:25.674 --> 0:35:28.754 hot Husband, and their relationship was quite part of her 0:35:29.314 --> 0:35:31.594 stick if you like. I think Celeste Barber's hilarious and 0:35:31.594 --> 0:35:34.074 I think probably Hot Husband started out because she was 0:35:34.114 --> 0:35:36.914 positioning herself as not hot up against all the models 0:35:36.954 --> 0:35:40.194 that she was impersonating and pointing out the beauty standards. 0:35:40.714 --> 0:35:43.594 She has been completely silent. She's been posting, but she's 0:35:43.634 --> 0:35:46.554 been posting to her very large following, just professional stuff 0:35:46.634 --> 0:35:50.674 like she's been, you know, touring, doing shows, launching products, 0:35:51.034 --> 0:35:51.914 but she hasn't official. 0:35:52.274 --> 0:35:54.154 She has not mentioned this at all. 0:35:54.274 --> 0:35:58.874 But his timing is interesting because we always say, knowing 0:35:58.954 --> 0:36:02.194 how the internet and traffic works, if you want to 0:36:02.474 --> 0:36:04.634 announce something that you want to fall under the radar, 0:36:04.754 --> 0:36:08.433 you either do it around Christmas holidays or you do 0:36:08.474 --> 0:36:09.314 it on a Friday night. 0:36:09.434 --> 0:36:11.114 Because newsrooms have gone on. 0:36:11.394 --> 0:36:13.474 I learned this from the West Wing that even in 0:36:13.514 --> 0:36:15.194 the olden days is called taking out the trash. You 0:36:15.234 --> 0:36:17.394 do it on a Friday night when no one's paying attention. 0:36:17.554 --> 0:36:18.354 So he posted. 0:36:18.394 --> 0:36:21.274 Then people did pay attention, and look, I think it's 0:36:21.314 --> 0:36:24.914 icky when people claim to have feelings about parasocial relationship. 0:36:24.554 --> 0:36:27.754 But I was quite sad shock. I always loved. 0:36:27.634 --> 0:36:31.634 Their dynamic, and it made me realize everyone who's got 0:36:31.674 --> 0:36:33.834 any kind of public profile has to make a decision 0:36:34.114 --> 0:36:35.834 about how public or not they're going to be with 0:36:35.874 --> 0:36:39.834 their relationship, their family, their real life right. And the 0:36:39.954 --> 0:36:42.074 problem is is that whatever you decide to do with that, 0:36:42.114 --> 0:36:45.314 particularly if you do decide to share, if and when 0:36:45.394 --> 0:36:48.154 things go pay shape, that leaves you with a bigger problem. 0:36:48.194 --> 0:36:51.954 I've often thought that's why Taylor Swift doesn't follow anyone, 0:36:53.074 --> 0:36:55.834 because she has been around in the public eye for 0:36:55.914 --> 0:36:58.514 long enough to know that things that you think are permanent, 0:36:58.594 --> 0:37:00.354 things that you think are going to be there forever, 0:37:00.714 --> 0:37:02.514 are not going to be there forever, and people are 0:37:02.554 --> 0:37:04.834 going to be picking over your social media as a result. 0:37:05.274 --> 0:37:07.114 Let's just say that if me and the elderly boyfriend 0:37:07.154 --> 0:37:09.274 and ever split, I know where all the public sympaty 0:37:09.354 --> 0:37:13.594 will go with him anyway. Moving on to happy news, 0:37:14.154 --> 0:37:19.154 Aida Nicodemu, friend of the Pod, Big Book Club Girlie 0:37:19.554 --> 0:37:22.834 been through a lot of shit. Aida Nicodemus of the Pod, 0:37:22.994 --> 0:37:27.433 Oh yeah, oh loud ad Ada's are out louder. She's 0:37:27.434 --> 0:37:29.594 obviously home on home and away and has been for 0:37:29.634 --> 0:37:33.513 a long time. She on Valentine's Day talking of how 0:37:33.554 --> 0:37:36.794 you handle it. She and James Stewart, her partner, announced 0:37:36.834 --> 0:37:39.434 it exactly the same time, with exactly the same video 0:37:39.474 --> 0:37:43.154 and exactly the same caption. I said yes, she said yes, 0:37:43.194 --> 0:37:46.274 And it's a little, very low five, very real video 0:37:46.474 --> 0:37:48.553 of him getting down on his knees and proposing to her 0:37:48.514 --> 0:37:51.154 in a cougie park. I may have got quite excited 0:37:51.194 --> 0:37:56.393 about that. These people are forty eight and fifty for decades, 0:37:56.474 --> 0:37:59.274 they've been friends since that for twenty five years, they've 0:37:59.314 --> 0:38:02.354 been dating for at least two they've both got teenagers. 0:38:02.794 --> 0:38:04.754 As I say, they've both been through a lot of 0:38:04.794 --> 0:38:08.274 stuff quite publicly, and I was like, yes, I hope 0:38:08.354 --> 0:38:10.834 they're gone in for a big wedding pay day. I 0:38:10.874 --> 0:38:13.354 don't know if that still exists in this era. No 0:38:13.714 --> 0:38:15.234 celebrity magazine's been in the toilet. 0:38:15.274 --> 0:38:17.834 But Holly, I keep waiting for my twin pregnancy pay day. 0:38:18.114 --> 0:38:20.994 I'm like, I swear just hello magazine not exist, because 0:38:21.074 --> 0:38:23.154 that I feel like they would like lap this up. 0:38:23.554 --> 0:38:25.234 And I've been waiting for a call where they just 0:38:25.354 --> 0:38:27.394 offer me a lump sum of money. 0:38:27.474 --> 0:38:28.393 Is it how I used to work? 0:38:28.474 --> 0:38:30.354 That's exactly how it used to work. We would call 0:38:30.434 --> 0:38:32.674 your agent. We'd say, what do you think Jesse would 0:38:32.674 --> 0:38:34.554 be thinking about? But don't wish for that because you 0:38:34.594 --> 0:38:36.513 know what the next sentence would be. We'd be like, 0:38:36.794 --> 0:38:38.714 what do you think Jesse would be thinking about for 0:38:38.754 --> 0:38:40.794 her twin announcement? In the agent would go, oh, you know, 0:38:40.874 --> 0:38:42.554 blah blah through out a figure, and then you go, 0:38:42.914 --> 0:38:45.194 what about a body after baby? We were thinking like 0:38:45.474 --> 0:38:47.234 eight weeks after birth, and the. 0:38:47.274 --> 0:38:48.714 Agent would wrap the price. 0:38:48.514 --> 0:38:53.873 Up's expensive, Holly, I everyone has their price, and then 0:38:53.914 --> 0:38:57.913 you'd go bikini question mark and then go that'll cost 0:38:57.954 --> 0:38:58.553 you another ten. 0:38:58.634 --> 0:39:03.274 That's what used to it, Jesse. Other celebrities being public 0:39:03.274 --> 0:39:05.674 with their private business. Tell me give me a Beckham update. 0:39:05.954 --> 0:39:06.154 Yeap. 0:39:06.314 --> 0:39:08.114 So the first thing I thought when I saw this 0:39:08.274 --> 0:39:12.074 story was, oh my god, the emotional weight of being 0:39:12.674 --> 0:39:16.954 a daughter, right, and this is Harper Beckham, the youngest Beckham, 0:39:17.354 --> 0:39:20.393 but notably the eldest daughter because she's the only daughter. 0:39:20.794 --> 0:39:23.834 She is fourteen years old. And she posted to Instagram 0:39:23.834 --> 0:39:27.074 over the weekend in what appears to be her first 0:39:27.114 --> 0:39:32.314 sort of acknowledgment of the rift estrangement Beckham situation, which 0:39:32.434 --> 0:39:34.874 was she posted a picture of her three brothers, Brooklyn, 0:39:34.954 --> 0:39:37.954 Cruz and Romeo just had the words I love you 0:39:38.074 --> 0:39:41.393 all so much. Words can't describe it, and Romeo and 0:39:41.474 --> 0:39:43.314 Victoria Beckham reposted it. 0:39:43.434 --> 0:39:46.634 She got reshared published. She has a private account by 0:39:47.154 --> 0:39:51.033 Victoria and by Romeo, and that in itself is kind 0:39:51.074 --> 0:39:53.994 of makes me feel uncomfortable because she chose I mean, 0:39:54.034 --> 0:39:55.994 I'm sure they sought her permission for it, but she 0:39:56.154 --> 0:40:00.194 did post it to a much more limited group of people, and. 0:40:00.194 --> 0:40:02.873 It becomes and then when you do that, it becomes performance, 0:40:02.914 --> 0:40:07.873 which just feels like such a less intimate Do you 0:40:07.914 --> 0:40:09.514 just look at some of this stuff and you're like, oh, 0:40:09.554 --> 0:40:11.234 we having conversations behind the scenes. 0:40:11.674 --> 0:40:13.674 It feels like Victoria's trying to prove a point by 0:40:13.674 --> 0:40:17.074 sharing it publicly, which Harper wasn't making by not sharing it. 0:40:17.594 --> 0:40:21.354 Now, this is in stark contrast to Cruz, who a 0:40:21.354 --> 0:40:24.714 few months ago reposted a Daily Mail article that alleged 0:40:24.754 --> 0:40:29.074 that Victoria and David had unfollowed Brooklyn, and he basically went, no, 0:40:29.834 --> 0:40:33.074 they didn't, Brooklyn unfollowed them, and blah blah blah, like 0:40:33.114 --> 0:40:35.674 he's been waiting into it a little bit. And I 0:40:35.674 --> 0:40:38.714 remember thinking when I saw that a daughter could never 0:40:39.034 --> 0:40:42.914 because the role of a daughter in the family dynamic 0:40:43.034 --> 0:40:48.274 is often to consider and weigh up everyone's emotional needs 0:40:48.434 --> 0:40:51.234 and try and keep the equilibrium of the family. And 0:40:51.274 --> 0:40:53.634 that's why I felt when I saw Harper do that 0:40:53.674 --> 0:40:59.034 at fourteen, I just went that show's probably emotional intelligence, 0:40:59.114 --> 0:41:01.314 but also like her own grief about the whole. 0:41:01.154 --> 0:41:03.514 Thing that's been of emotional intelligence. And this isn't directed 0:41:03.554 --> 0:41:06.114 at Hart because she's literally fourteen, but Amelia. 0:41:06.274 --> 0:41:06.954 Isn't it weird? 0:41:07.194 --> 0:41:10.393 The Beckham because actually Cruz Beckham also posted last week 0:41:10.394 --> 0:41:12.794 and he posted some random pictures from his life. He's 0:41:12.834 --> 0:41:14.513 got a record to promote, he's in a band now, 0:41:14.914 --> 0:41:18.234 and there were pictures of Brooklyn in that like throwback old. 0:41:18.034 --> 0:41:20.433 Pictures of that isn't the lesson was supposed to get 0:41:20.434 --> 0:41:20.674 from this. 0:41:20.714 --> 0:41:22.314 All this a merely that if they all love each 0:41:22.314 --> 0:41:24.634 other so much, maybe keeping off the social. 0:41:24.354 --> 0:41:28.634 For me feel like those children have grown up learning 0:41:29.234 --> 0:41:33.034 that the most important way to express love, or certainly 0:41:33.074 --> 0:41:36.674 an important way to express love is on Instagram. Because 0:41:36.954 --> 0:41:39.873 David and Victoria are constantly telling us how much they 0:41:39.914 --> 0:41:43.674 love their children on Instagram, and I don't understand why 0:41:43.714 --> 0:41:46.554 I need to know, Like that's great for them, but 0:41:46.674 --> 0:41:49.594 why why do they tell us this? And isn't that 0:41:49.714 --> 0:41:52.794 kind of Unbritish to be constantly emotioning in that way? 0:41:52.914 --> 0:41:54.754 I don't think it is anymore, because I think social 0:41:54.794 --> 0:41:57.514 media's changed it, because I'm always kind of surprised, Like 0:41:57.674 --> 0:42:00.714 not surprised for Victorian and David, it's their brand, but 0:42:00.834 --> 0:42:03.914 the kids being so open all the time on social 0:42:04.434 --> 0:42:05.674 seems a little bit strange. 0:42:05.674 --> 0:42:08.114 But then I was my niece who's not. 0:42:08.434 --> 0:42:11.674 Obviously famous or whatever, but she just turned twenty one 0:42:11.834 --> 0:42:13.634 and on the day that she did, her feet is 0:42:13.674 --> 0:42:17.474 just full of all her friends posting pictures of them together, 0:42:17.874 --> 0:42:20.434 how much they love her, go queen. All that stuff 0:42:20.474 --> 0:42:23.754 that is just very very normal now for a generation. 0:42:24.474 --> 0:42:28.754 Is that at any major moment that you do post 0:42:28.794 --> 0:42:31.074 about it, and you're expected to post about it for 0:42:31.074 --> 0:42:33.114 about the people you love, and you're expected to tag 0:42:33.114 --> 0:42:34.674 them and they're expected to reshare it. 0:42:34.714 --> 0:42:35.873 And I just wonder. 0:42:35.594 --> 0:42:40.074 If actually celebrities are just reflecting what the young people 0:42:40.114 --> 0:42:42.514 makes me sound a hundred but what is very ordinary? 0:42:42.554 --> 0:42:44.354 I always remember and Vernham said to us that if 0:42:44.354 --> 0:42:46.594 people didn't post about her on her birthday, should be 0:42:46.634 --> 0:42:47.834 a bit upset, for example. 0:42:47.874 --> 0:42:52.234 The problem with that, though, is the more you post, 0:42:52.434 --> 0:42:55.714 like Claire and I are constantly linking to each other 0:42:55.834 --> 0:42:58.674 going or there's been a breakup, like a this is 0:42:58.714 --> 0:43:01.154 like people in our lives or like you know, minor 0:43:01.274 --> 0:43:06.034 celebrities or whatever where you can tell because the declarations 0:43:06.034 --> 0:43:09.274 of love have stopped, or because the cadence of posting 0:43:09.314 --> 0:43:13.034 has changed or whatever. Like when you let people in 0:43:13.074 --> 0:43:15.234 for a little glimpse, you then give them a license 0:43:15.274 --> 0:43:17.754 to kind of speculate on the ins and outs of 0:43:17.794 --> 0:43:18.314 your life. 0:43:18.434 --> 0:43:21.473 That's exactly it, and that's where we started this conversation. 0:43:21.714 --> 0:43:24.234 And I think that if you're telling people about the 0:43:24.234 --> 0:43:27.154 good times, they are going to expect that you can 0:43:27.274 --> 0:43:30.034 communicate with them through the bad times too. And I 0:43:30.074 --> 0:43:34.714 think that we really see that tension around celebrity divorce announcements, 0:43:35.154 --> 0:43:37.953 and I was thinking about, how do you remember when 0:43:37.994 --> 0:43:41.114 Sasha Baron Cohen and isle of Fisher announced their divorce 0:43:41.874 --> 0:43:46.354 or their separation. It was them wearing tennis clothes about 0:43:46.354 --> 0:43:49.274 a match, and it was the match being over, and 0:43:49.314 --> 0:43:52.393 it was this extended tennis metaphor, and look, I know 0:43:52.594 --> 0:43:55.473 you love tennis, but that was too much. It just 0:43:55.514 --> 0:43:57.554 felt too contrived. 0:43:56.994 --> 0:44:00.473 All like inauthentic. And then on the other hand, there 0:44:00.514 --> 0:44:03.474 was a story recently. It was a local, kind of 0:44:03.514 --> 0:44:07.634 Australian celebrity story. Couple had broken up, lots of followers 0:44:07.674 --> 0:44:10.834 between them, questions about what had happened that a lot 0:44:10.874 --> 0:44:14.914 of people had But then it got into child support 0:44:15.154 --> 0:44:17.834 and what time this person showed up for a visit, 0:44:18.194 --> 0:44:21.234 and it became this back and forth between two people 0:44:21.274 --> 0:44:25.674 that are clearly really hurt and have a complicated personal relationship. 0:44:25.674 --> 0:44:27.594 I was thinking it would take such restraint not to 0:44:27.674 --> 0:44:31.274 say anything, especially if your partner has an enormous public 0:44:31.314 --> 0:44:34.234 platform that they're maybe profiting off or whatever, and you 0:44:34.274 --> 0:44:35.994 know you could do real damage. 0:44:35.674 --> 0:44:38.954 Or presenting a version of themselves that you deeply feel 0:44:38.994 --> 0:44:42.794 is untrue. Like that, Again, this is not just celebrity business, 0:44:42.834 --> 0:44:45.314 but if you're sort of seeing an ex partner or 0:44:45.354 --> 0:44:48.354 whatever professing to be the world's most wonderful dad, or 0:44:48.754 --> 0:44:51.354 social media when you're kind of like, well, you haven't 0:44:51.354 --> 0:44:54.873 seen the kids, for like, the temptation is huge. We 0:44:54.994 --> 0:44:57.474 literally have this microphone where we can put people on blast, 0:44:57.474 --> 0:45:00.034 we can put our feelings on blast, and it takes 0:45:00.074 --> 0:45:03.154 a lot of restraint and maturity. I guess to not 0:45:04.034 --> 0:45:06.674 did you catch Nicole Kidman's Valentine's Day post? Just on 0:45:06.754 --> 0:45:08.474 this What did she posted? 0:45:08.634 --> 0:45:11.034 Because normally she would post about Keith, Well. 0:45:10.874 --> 0:45:13.834 They are because this is what's to your point, Amelia, 0:45:13.914 --> 0:45:17.553 about can you redraw the boundaries once you've kind of gone, oh, actually, 0:45:17.594 --> 0:45:20.034 I don't want to tell everybody about this messiness. She 0:45:20.194 --> 0:45:23.433 and Keith were always very public with their declarations of love, 0:45:23.474 --> 0:45:26.674 weren't they. And on Saturday she just posted a rather 0:45:26.714 --> 0:45:29.194 sexy picture of herself in a man's shirt, which is 0:45:29.194 --> 0:45:33.234 a look Nick rocks, and it just said Happy Gallantines 0:45:33.394 --> 0:45:34.034 with a love. 0:45:33.954 --> 0:45:36.714 Heart and I was also perfectly shot and lit. We 0:45:36.754 --> 0:45:37.794 need to pay. 0:45:38.034 --> 0:45:39.513 Very lovely day. 0:45:39.874 --> 0:45:41.914 She was like, I cannot let this go on. Marked 0:45:44.034 --> 0:45:45.114 that's all we've got time for. 0:45:45.194 --> 0:45:47.674 On Today's show, out loud is Thank you for being 0:45:47.714 --> 0:45:49.993 here with us, and thank you to our amazing team 0:45:50.034 --> 0:45:51.514 for helping us put this show together. 0:45:51.994 --> 0:45:54.354 Bye bye. 0:45:58.434 --> 0:46:01.433 Ma Mayer acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on 0:46:01.474 --> 0:46:03.314 which we have recorded this podcast.