Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia out Loud. It's what
Speaker 2: women are actually talking about on Monday, the sixteenth of February.
Speaker 3: I'm Olly Wayne, right, I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 1: And I'm Amelia Lester.
Speaker 2: And here's what's on our agenda for today. Wuthering Heights
Speaker 2: and the return of the Bad.
Speaker 1: Man looks Maxing Are we really doing this now?
Speaker 4: And Harper Beckham, Celeste Barber and the question of how
Speaker 4: to handle very tricky relationship moments on social media.
Speaker 2: But first, in case you missed it, did we just
Speaker 2: see another shit skirt flying off a glass.
Speaker 5: Cliff in Australian politics?
Speaker 2: Or is what just happened in the Liberal Party a
Speaker 2: little more complicated than that?
Speaker 5: Quick catch up?
Speaker 2: And don't worry, we are going to keep it brief.
Speaker 2: I know that everybody's tolerance of a discussion about politics like,
Speaker 2: oh god, we are going to keep it brief. But
Speaker 2: last Friday, the worst kept secret and Australian politics played
Speaker 2: out exactly as predicted. The first female leader of the
Speaker 2: Liberal Party, Susan Lee, lost her job.
Speaker 5: She was rolled, as.
Speaker 2: We so charmingly put it in Australia by Angus Taylor,
Speaker 2: a man who's been stalking that job for about a decade.
Speaker 2: She served nine months in the role, and no one
Speaker 2: who's been watching political headlines lately could really argue that
Speaker 2: she did a very good job. Although my shit skirt
Speaker 2: analogy is just a refresher for anyone who doesn't remember.
Speaker 2: This is that when something political is in a terrible mess.
Speaker 2: So let's imagine, for example, that your party just lost
Speaker 2: the election in a landslide and your primary vote is
Speaker 2: in collapse and you've been chased out of every city
Speaker 2: in the country, as the Liberal Party has. Sometimes people go, oh,
Speaker 2: this is a good idea, a good time to put
Speaker 2: a woman in charge.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 4: So the president for that, of course is Theresa May
Speaker 4: inheriting Brexit right, and so you were just like she
Speaker 4: was given this pile of little all shit and told
Speaker 4: to deal with it, and there was no solution.
Speaker 2: The idea is that you're dealing with You're trying to
Speaker 2: clean up this mess, and whichever way you do it,
Speaker 2: everyone in the gallery is just going, no, you need
Speaker 2: a stay and remover on that.
Speaker 5: No, a bit assault model, get it out, vinegars. What
Speaker 5: you need you're doing it wrong.
Speaker 4: And you're just rubbing it in and needs to be
Speaker 4: set on fire.
Speaker 1: Are you going to explain why it was not in
Speaker 1: fact a shitskirt? She didn't do a good child.
Speaker 5: So she didn't do a good job. Poles are in
Speaker 5: the toilet. Toilet not another analogy, poles are and toy.
Speaker 2: But the argument about the shitskirt and the glass cliff
Speaker 2: is whether or not anybody could have really done a
Speaker 2: good job in this particular position.
Speaker 3: She didn't get out the sad.
Speaker 2: She really didn't get out the sad, and everyone else
Speaker 2: is like, I've got the side anyway. So after that
Speaker 2: landslide election loss, the Libs had a big argument about
Speaker 2: what they had to do. Either try and win back
Speaker 2: the cities that they lost to the Teals or go
Speaker 2: after the votes that they're losing to one nation in
Speaker 2: the regions. And Lee managed to do neither of those things.
Speaker 2: And the polling on the Liberal Party and now in
Speaker 2: the toilet, as I discussed there sometimes party the Nationals
Speaker 2: are on this on off love affair and they are
Speaker 2: now behind one nation in the polls. And this is
Speaker 2: quite the feat because the Liberals historically in Australia have
Speaker 2: been in power more than any other party. There used
Speaker 2: to be the default government pretty much and now they
Speaker 2: are third in the polls.
Speaker 4: In the last election, the Liberal Party which lost abysmally,
Speaker 4: they had thirty two percent of preference votes and then
Speaker 4: a recent poll this was cited in Jaquelin Malee's column
Speaker 4: over the weekend, said that they're down to about eighteen
Speaker 4: percent of the primary vote. So whether it was a
Speaker 4: man or a woman, with those polling numbers, the party
Speaker 4: had no choice but to replace that leader.
Speaker 1: Has that ever happened before that one nation has overtaken
Speaker 1: the Libs?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 2: No, no, they are on the ascent at the moment.
Speaker 2: Step in Angus Taylor, who is a Liberal leader from
Speaker 2: Central Casting.
Speaker 1: Yeah. First, starting with his name, Angus Taylor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he could not be more of an Anglo liberal
Speaker 2: white guy if he tried. I did hear some people
Speaker 2: talking on Friday about like he looks like a leader,
Speaker 2: which is code for.
Speaker 5: Would be the penis.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the penis and the fact like he's from a
Speaker 2: farming family, but he went to a very posh private
Speaker 2: boys school.
Speaker 5: He was a Rhodes scholar.
Speaker 2: He's that guy business da da da, He's the liberal
Speaker 2: guy and he has stepped in, and of course he
Speaker 2: knows how to get the shit out of the skirt.
Speaker 1: What do we think, friends, So is he going to
Speaker 1: take it further to the right and try and get
Speaker 1: the one nation vote or do you think he's going
Speaker 1: to like double down on sort of more old school. Ye.
Speaker 4: I think he's going to go a little bit more right,
Speaker 4: and he's definitely from the conservative faction of the party.
Speaker 4: But in saying that, he's also like, I want to
Speaker 4: bring us back to John Howard era politics. And it's
Speaker 4: an interesting strategy given that the Liberal Party have lost
Speaker 4: women and they've lost young people. So to put in
Speaker 4: a conservative guy who doesn't particularly appeal to either of
Speaker 4: those demographics, as far as I can tell, is an
Speaker 4: interesting play. He's the guy, and I felt like this
Speaker 4: was important context.
Speaker 2: I know what you're gonna tell us, and this is
Speaker 2: maybe the best political story everybody pay attention again.
Speaker 4: Twenty nineteen Facebook status by Angus Taylor about something great
Speaker 4: that he was doing in politics, and then there was
Speaker 4: a comment. It was his official Liberal Party account, and
Speaker 4: then there was a comment underneath that said fantastic, great move,
Speaker 4: well done, Angus, And that was from Angus Taylor MP,
Speaker 4: and he had commented on his own Facebook page but
Speaker 4: like forgotten to change the name. So he's all of
Speaker 4: us trying to.
Speaker 1: Like drum up a bit of hype latest program exactly.
Speaker 4: It's incredibly relatable. But he's that guy, and he has
Speaker 4: had like a very long list of faux pas. I
Speaker 4: suppose he was behind a lot of the very unpopular
Speaker 4: policies that came forward in the last election, Like he
Speaker 4: was the guy behind the stopping work from home policy, right, But.
Speaker 5: That's not a faux part.
Speaker 1: Faux part makes it sound like he used the wrong fork.
Speaker 1: This is like what he did that.
Speaker 4: With policy, just unpopular policies. He was very against the
Speaker 4: Stage three tax cards. He's very much like when you
Speaker 4: look back, it's not like he's been a particularly popular
Speaker 4: politician by any means.
Speaker 1: But his name is Angus Taylor, and he's a man,
Speaker 1: and he comes from a farm. Yes, stop asking questions.
Speaker 5: He's very ambitious.
Speaker 2: The thing is is that Susan Lee, who has been
Speaker 2: gracious in stepping away, has left them with the shit skirt,
Speaker 2: which I respect because she's going to quit. She's not
Speaker 2: just stepping away from being the leader. She's actually quitting
Speaker 2: and what that means is they have to have a
Speaker 2: by election in her seat, and what that means is
Speaker 2: that they are going to be tested against one nation
Speaker 2: because she's a regional southern New South Wales seat. They're
Speaker 2: going to be tested against one nation for the first
Speaker 2: time since the polls shifted. And so in a way
Speaker 2: that is Susan Lee's very past agg way of going well,
Speaker 2: fuck you, because I'm sure they would rather not be
Speaker 2: fine an election that quickly in that seat.
Speaker 5: But Susan Lee is gone nut. I'm We're handing you
Speaker 5: the sad and I am walking away.
Speaker 1: Could we say she flounced?
Speaker 3: She floxd.
Speaker 4: Wuthering Heights, the brand new film directed by Emerald Fanell,
Speaker 4: starring our very own Margot Robbie and Jacob Lordie, smashed
Speaker 4: the box office in its opening weekend. But despite the
Speaker 4: hole that the film has on our culture right now,
Speaker 4: from the press tour to the fashion to the very
Speaker 4: thorny discussions about sex and power and the enduring appeal
Speaker 4: of a very bad man, reviews are mixed. I'm not
Speaker 4: sure if I have ever seen audience as this divided
Speaker 4: in terms of like even critics going from one star
Speaker 4: to five stars, right.
Speaker 3: You almost don't know how the reviewer is going to go.
Speaker 5: It's a Veggiem movie.
Speaker 6: It is.
Speaker 5: It movie?
Speaker 4: Yes, So we read Nicki Gemmel's Color in the Australian.
Speaker 4: She gave it a five star rating, saying she inhaled
Speaker 4: it with her groin was how she put it, her
Speaker 4: first five star rating ever for a film, whereas the
Speaker 4: Independent gave it one star. They said Emerald Fanell's astonishingly
Speaker 4: bad adaptation is like a limp Mills and Boon. Some
Speaker 4: say the chemistry is outstanding, others say none exists between
Speaker 4: Robbie and a Lordie. Another says Emily Bronte rolling in
Speaker 4: her grave, while another says it's Fanelle's best film to date.
Speaker 4: Now most people listening probably haven't seen it, right, It
Speaker 4: only just came out. But what we did want to
Speaker 4: talk about is the cultural phenomenon of this nineteenth century
Speaker 4: classic and the re emergence of the bad man Holly.
Speaker 4: Should you and I feel ashamed of how much we
Speaker 4: loved it with our groin?
Speaker 2: We should?
Speaker 5: Definitely.
Speaker 2: We are very bad feminists today, Jesse and I both
Speaker 2: on the record, I believe of saying that we loved it,
Speaker 2: I did love it. And I'm also on the record
Speaker 2: of saying that I also love the book.
Speaker 5: The thing that's really.
Speaker 1: Less controversially, well except if you've read the book.
Speaker 2: It's actually not less controversial because the book. People that
Speaker 2: are doing a lot of huffing about bad men after
Speaker 2: watching that and they're like, but he's mean and that
Speaker 2: relationship looks unhealthy, and I'm like, maybe you should read
Speaker 2: the book, like it gets a whole lot worse than that.
Speaker 5: Not that that's a defense, but.
Speaker 2: I think it's really interesting because there's no question the
Speaker 2: way that this movie has been marketed. One of the
Speaker 2: ways that Fanelle chose to market it was with the
Speaker 2: words the greatest love story of our time. Right now,
Speaker 2: I don't think that's ever what the book was. It's
Speaker 2: never what it was pretending to be. It's a really dark,
Speaker 2: twisted exploration.
Speaker 5: Of all kinds of seedy things, but it.
Speaker 2: Has this obsessive relationship at the heart of it. And
Speaker 2: what's really interesting is seeing people grappling with that in
Speaker 2: our culture now, where we have to absolutely unrightly in
Speaker 2: many ways disclose that we are against relationships that don't
Speaker 2: look healthy. There is nothing healthy about this relationship other
Speaker 2: than their sex. Life, which looks very healthy in the
Speaker 2: back of a carriage or up against a rock.
Speaker 6: But apart from.
Speaker 2: That, there's no question that Heathcliff is the archetype, possibly
Speaker 2: one of the original archetypes, along with other Bronte heroes
Speaker 2: like mister Rochester. For the brooding, tortured bad man.
Speaker 4: Yes that women, there was almost a tongue in cheek
Speaker 4: lusting after him that I felt like the whole theater
Speaker 4: was almost laughing at because he was yeah, yeah, Amelia,
Speaker 4: are you a five star review?
Speaker 1: No, I hated it, And I want to be clear
Speaker 1: that I'm not coming from a puritanical place, because I
Speaker 1: did enjoy Saltburn, which is for Nell's second feature and
Speaker 1: which was extremely sexual in many ways. What I object
Speaker 1: to in this is that this movie is not sexy,
Speaker 1: and yet I'm being constant told about how sexy it is.
Speaker 2: Okay, but it's just a personal choice, Like I thought
Speaker 2: it was really sexy.
Speaker 3: Do you think?
Speaker 4: And I wonder if this is what it comes down to,
Speaker 4: is whether or not you thought, because I think it's
Speaker 4: very female gaze, and it's whether or not you find
Speaker 4: Jacob Alordie to be a sex god or not, or whether.
Speaker 1: I find like raw eggs in sheets to be sexy.
Speaker 1: I think that's hard to clean up, and.
Speaker 3: About that so much about clean.
Speaker 1: And that's an issue because I've got enough laundry already.
Speaker 1: The problem is that she called it the greatest loster
Speaker 1: of our time. You know, I don't think that this
Speaker 1: book was ever meant to be a great cluster. It's
Speaker 1: an exploration of how love can yes be toxic, to
Speaker 1: use a very modern term. And it's also about race
Speaker 1: and sex and class and all these topics that basically
Speaker 1: got pushed aside on trauma just so that we could
Speaker 1: have a lot of shots of there's so much food
Speaker 1: in this movie that I'm meant to find sexy. The egg,
Speaker 1: the jelly, Margot, Robbie puts her finger in some jelly.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of jelly happening. It just made me
Speaker 1: long for baby girl. Remember Nicole Kidman's the movie where
Speaker 1: she had the affair with the younger man and he
Speaker 1: drank a glass of milk. That's sexy. Don't ask me why,
Speaker 1: but that was sexy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do think that was I do think that
Speaker 3: was sexy.
Speaker 4: But I have a theory about why this has been
Speaker 4: such a cultural phenomenon, right, because I mean because we've
Speaker 4: been forced to consume it like at all times for
Speaker 4: the last three months. Margot Robbie seems capable of something
Speaker 4: that just about no other actor can do, which is
Speaker 4: that she inspires a movement like Barber was a movement.
Speaker 4: This is true from fashion to conversations to everything. You
Speaker 4: just go this is what every movie whish is they
Speaker 4: could be.
Speaker 2: She's incredibly smart about so clever projects, directors, scripts like
Speaker 2: because the thing is about this is it's the Emerald
Speaker 2: finale of it all right. Yeah, Saltburn was controversial, Saltburn
Speaker 2: was over the top, Saltburn was silly. This takes all
Speaker 2: those themes and turns up to eleven. Then you add
Speaker 2: in ready made culture war argument really about whether or
Speaker 2: not this is a love story, whether or not it's
Speaker 2: good role modeling, whether or not we should have adapted
Speaker 2: a classic in the first place, And you have got
Speaker 2: an instant vibe.
Speaker 1: Well you've got another layer too, which is she just
Speaker 1: also had to look at the fact that women are
Speaker 1: reading smart in huge numbers, and that's just a ready
Speaker 1: made audience for it too.
Speaker 3: But I wonder too.
Speaker 4: My theory is that in a world that is being
Speaker 4: taken over by AI. So design to video, to ads,
Speaker 4: to fonts, to films to whatever, there's a almost like
Speaker 4: a banality to a lot of it that is all
Speaker 4: starting to look the same. They say that AI generated
Speaker 4: means that all writing starts to sound the same. That
Speaker 4: sort of thing in order to cut through the genre
Speaker 4: that seems to be as sending right now is absurdist.
Speaker 4: So the best comedy show I saw last year was
Speaker 4: the most absurd, ridiculous, unexplainable thing and had nudity in it,
Speaker 4: and it was whatever happened in that room could never
Speaker 4: be replicated again. And I was like, oh, this is
Speaker 4: the anti AI revoultion Gary Starr and he does this
Speaker 4: Penguin classic show. It's coming back to Australia. You have
Speaker 4: to see it, and it's gone around the world and
Speaker 4: it's won every award right, And I just think that
Speaker 4: watching this I went there is something so ridiculous, over
Speaker 4: the top.
Speaker 3: Edgy, weird.
Speaker 4: Even kinks like AI can't predict the weirdness of human kinks, right,
Speaker 4: And so I think that that's part of what we're
Speaker 4: just loving. And it's Marty Supreme falls into the same category,
Speaker 4: which is just this weirdness that a robot could never.
Speaker 2: I think it's like, if I'm going to leave my
Speaker 2: house and I'm going to go sit in a theater.
Speaker 5: For too long, let's be on the record with that.
Speaker 2: Like my main complaint if I have a complaint about
Speaker 2: this movie is it could have easily shaved past for
Speaker 2: an hour and nobody it would have been fine. But
Speaker 2: if I'm going to go and do that, what I
Speaker 2: want is an experience. And now I want a good time.
Speaker 2: And I got that with Marty Supreme. I was in
Speaker 2: that movie theater like kind of it wasn't a perfect film,
Speaker 2: but I was gasping.
Speaker 4: I was like, no way, it was unpredictability and this
Speaker 4: was the same.
Speaker 2: I got a really good time in that room. I
Speaker 2: just want to go back to Bad Men for a
Speaker 2: moment because I'm seeing a lot of hot takes. I
Speaker 2: think we might be putting on on Mamma Mia today
Speaker 2: about how we all need to remember that in real
Speaker 2: life Heathcliffs are bad and they are right, there is
Speaker 2: no question right. The archetype of that man who loves
Speaker 2: you so much he will do anything for you, you know,
Speaker 2: including hurt everyone in the world, including you, and himself
Speaker 2: and everything in fantasy is great. In reality, as those
Speaker 2: of us who've had the misfortune to experience it is toxic, controlling, awful,
Speaker 2: veers into violence, not to be encouraged. But let's give
Speaker 2: women the respect of knowing that they're smart and they
Speaker 2: know the difference between fantasy and reality. I think we've
Speaker 2: been talking heats lately about obsessive fandoms, like around heated rivalry,
Speaker 2: around pop music, around all kinds of things. There's something
Speaker 2: about female desire that can be very powerful and obsessive,
Speaker 2: and we're always looking for like safe places to put that.
Speaker 2: And I think it's okay for us to lose ourselves
Speaker 2: in a heathcliff for a couple of hours and for
Speaker 2: it not to mean that we really wish that we
Speaker 2: are in a terrible, controlling, abusive relationship.
Speaker 5: I think we've got that.
Speaker 2: And when women are making their own art, which this
Speaker 2: is written by a woman, produced by a woman, directed
Speaker 2: by a woman, and it's playing with these dangerous tropes,
Speaker 2: I think that's fine.
Speaker 4: Do you think it's also a bit of a backlash
Speaker 4: to a trend we've had over films, certainly since Me Too,
Speaker 4: but longer than that, which are didactic in a lot
Speaker 4: of ways about how our relationships ought to look feminist overtones,
Speaker 4: which is great, but the pendulum seems to have swung
Speaker 4: a little bit and gone, what if we were to
Speaker 4: just lean into the naughtiness which we saw with fifty Shades?
Speaker 4: That absolutely worked, how provocative it is, and I think
Speaker 4: that's why there were moments where everyone was laughing because
Speaker 4: they were just like, we know that this isn't good
Speaker 4: for us, but can't we just look at it and
Speaker 4: think that Jacob a Lordie looks hot with his shirt?
Speaker 1: Laughter was more we were embarrassed because there's so much
Speaker 1: repression in that movie. The movie is about like subliminating
Speaker 1: sexual desire into things like egg yolks or aspect, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think that we're embarrassed on behalf of the
Speaker 1: people in it because we know how hard they were
Speaker 1: pressing their true emotions.
Speaker 4: Was part of why you didn't like it that you
Speaker 4: felt as though it was like dangerous for women, Like
Speaker 4: did you think that it was.
Speaker 1: A bit yeah, a bit, yeah, Yeah, I think that's true.
Speaker 1: I thought it was a little bit like you will
Speaker 1: find this sexy, and you know what's not sexy? People
Speaker 1: telling you incessantly that something is sexy like that problem.
Speaker 2: Also women on a homogeneous blop like some of us
Speaker 2: will find that very sexy and some of us will not.
Speaker 2: Some of us will be thinking about a lordie lifting
Speaker 2: her up by a corset strings, and some of us
Speaker 2: will not.
Speaker 1: I also couldn't understand what he was saying a lot
Speaker 1: of the time. It was to being and I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Jacob, what what did you just say?
Speaker 2: Maybe this part of why this is my movie is
Speaker 2: that Yorkshire accent.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, it was really good. I just think
Speaker 5: it's like these heroes pop up.
Speaker 2: We know they're bad for us, Edward and Twilight, Noah
Speaker 2: in the notebook, they'll be think pieces about like girls.
Speaker 5: Remember I'm working.
Speaker 3: You don't want a heath click, and.
Speaker 2: That's fine, you actually do not want to hear I
Speaker 2: will be on the record, but it's okay. Lose yourself
Speaker 2: in it for a couple of hours.
Speaker 3: I completely agree.
Speaker 5: Loved it.
Speaker 2: If you have seen Weathering heights, or if you were
Speaker 2: wondering whether or not to see Weathering heights, we are
Speaker 2: going to go I'm not going to say deep I was.
Speaker 5: We're going to say deep in amiliates like don't. I'm like,
Speaker 5: you're fair.
Speaker 2: We are going to go in depth into Wathering Heights
Speaker 2: with Mia tomorrow, Amelia and myself. Amelia didn't like it,
Speaker 2: me who loved it. But also a bit of behind
Speaker 2: the scenes gossip, a bit of industry stuff, a bit of.
Speaker 5: Margo, a bit of all that stuff.
Speaker 2: All on tomorrow's subscriber episode stilled by our very own
Speaker 2: ma of Friedman.
Speaker 1: After the break, the substack about beauty routines, which has
Speaker 1: me thinking that none of this is fun anymore. I
Speaker 1: like reading fashion substacks by people with better taste than
Speaker 1: me so I can figure out what to wear. It's
Speaker 1: kind of a guilty pleasure of mine. And one of
Speaker 1: them is called Magazine, and it's written by a woman
Speaker 1: named Laura Riley. Now I looked up her age before this,
Speaker 1: but she doesn't disclose her age, which gosh, I wish
Speaker 1: I didn't disclose my age. But it's very much out
Speaker 1: there if you'd like to find out what it is anyway,
Speaker 1: If I had to guess, she's probably in her late thirties,
Speaker 1: and she wrote something recently which kind of depressed me
Speaker 1: and made me never want to read about people's skincare
Speaker 1: routines again. She wrote the following in January alone. I've
Speaker 1: done botox, m face IPL scheduled moxy broadband, seeing my orthodontist, cardiologist,
Speaker 1: gp obg wyn, ophthalmologist, dermatologists, plastic surgeon, trainer, and Polate's instructor.
Speaker 1: I've renewed my health insurance and MEDSPA membership. I don't
Speaker 1: know what a medspy ownership is. I've drawn blood three times,
Speaker 1: that's too many times to draw blood and given two
Speaker 1: urine samples. My current skincare routine is six to eight steps.
Speaker 1: My daily supplement stack is seventeen pills, twenty on mondays
Speaker 1: and a peptide. And I've engaged at least five high
Speaker 1: tech tools from my home device library. I've tracked every
Speaker 1: meal macro and relevant micro nutrient. I still do all
Speaker 1: of this macro macro. It's not the question I had
Speaker 1: for breakfast this morning. All of this, and I consider
Speaker 1: myself pretty healthy and not hypochondriac.
Speaker 5: So, my god, I just does she have a job.
Speaker 5: I just thought, is this.
Speaker 1: What we're doing now?
Speaker 5: Holly?
Speaker 1: How are you going? Are you doing this? Well?
Speaker 5: It is what we're doing now.
Speaker 2: It's not what I'm doing now, but I've I'm doing
Speaker 2: well if I've got like a serum and a moisturizer,
Speaker 2: and I might look at me go, but this is
Speaker 2: everywhere I'm looking. At the moment, I was on my Instagram.
Speaker 2: On my Instagram Emma Greed, Who's somebody I like to follow.
Speaker 2: She is, you know, the Skim's Boss lady, who's like
Speaker 2: the archetype of the girl boss of the moment. She's
Speaker 2: just got had a book out about it and stuff.
Speaker 2: She posted her regimen, like just her supplements regiment. She
Speaker 2: takes sixteen different pills every day, some of the morning,
Speaker 2: some for night, which is something I'm suddenly seeing everywhere. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the discussion about it and then all these different pills
Speaker 2: and potions.
Speaker 5: Some of it is.
Speaker 2: Under the guise of longevity, which is something I'm seeing
Speaker 2: a lot, particularly with women at the minute. We all
Speaker 2: know that the longevity craze kind of really started taking
Speaker 2: hold in the bro culture of Silicon Valley, but now
Speaker 2: it's very much kind of merging with beauty standards to
Speaker 2: become something women a I ungenerously think it's the new
Speaker 2: You can't say anti aging anymore, because we've all got
Speaker 2: to be age positive, but longevity sounds in a positive
Speaker 2: and healthy but really it's the same and I'm seeing
Speaker 2: this everywhere, as well as the Miranda Curz, the Trinny
Speaker 2: Goodles of it all who are wearing their what's Triny doing?
Speaker 2: She took a picture of herself in the morning the
Speaker 2: other day wearing her infra red mask, some kind of
Speaker 2: helmet that had red light underneath it. She was like,
Speaker 2: just all of these ye like Mia has, and she's
Speaker 2: just getting about her day.
Speaker 4: Looking It's like a board that you stand on that
Speaker 4: apparently is good for bone density, and it just it's
Speaker 4: like a vibrating.
Speaker 5: Boarde the emint to stand on.
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't even know where to start, because
Speaker 4: the first thing when you read out all of those
Speaker 4: appointments and all the people I've seen, is the conflation
Speaker 4: of beauty and health. Like seeing your GP is not
Speaker 4: the same as seeing a facialist. They are just completely
Speaker 4: different things. The other thing I noticed was the use
Speaker 4: of my GP my ophthalmologist begyn, which indicates you can't
Speaker 4: talk about this stuff without going There is such enormous privilege,
Speaker 4: particularly in the States, of having your own specialist doctors,
Speaker 4: like most people who genuinely have a heart issue, would
Speaker 4: struggle to pay for cardiologists, Like the healthcare system is
Speaker 4: totally broken, and I like cringe at the idea of
Speaker 4: her having a cardiologist to go and check that her
Speaker 4: thirty something year old heart is great.
Speaker 5: I think it's status, right, A status.
Speaker 2: Emma Read's massive collection of pills and potions is status.
Speaker 1: She has so many of them that, according to that
Speaker 1: Instagram caption, she pays her child to organize her supplements
Speaker 1: for her.
Speaker 3: And I think it's like, what what is all this about?
Speaker 4: Is it about an ultimate fear of death, which is
Speaker 4: like the longevity science stuff. I find the rhetoric of
Speaker 4: like scientific language around this to be a little bit
Speaker 4: disingenuous because it's like you're just putting goo on your face.
Speaker 1: What all of this is about is about looking hot. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's just vanity. Because there's a term for what this
Speaker 1: is called, and it looks maxing. And the definition of
Speaker 1: looks maxing is trying to raise your social, your sexual
Speaker 1: market value by optimizing your attractiveness. This is absolutely something
Speaker 1: Heathcliff would have loved.
Speaker 2: But I was going to say, that's not a new idea.
Speaker 2: We've just got all these new ways to do it right,
Speaker 2: so hot people have always enjoyed a lot of status.
Speaker 4: There was a line in that in that substack that
Speaker 4: was like, my group chats are planning out cos medical tourism,
Speaker 4: and I bet yours are too, And.
Speaker 3: I was like, is this satire?
Speaker 5: This is a funny.
Speaker 1: I'm not in your group chat, but is that what
Speaker 1: you're talking about?
Speaker 4: Generally, it's trying to find a tie place for dinner.
Speaker 4: It's not looking at where we're going to go in
Speaker 4: the world to get some ridiculous new face.
Speaker 1: But the key thing is that men are getting involved
Speaker 1: in this now too. And there's a guy called Clovicula.
Speaker 1: I kept seeing this word and just it was a
Speaker 1: news story that I wanted to opt out of. But
Speaker 1: in the end I just had to read about him
Speaker 1: because I kept seeing him everywhere. He is a young
Speaker 1: man who gets his name because apparently the length of
Speaker 1: his clavicle is ideal. If you'd like to know what
Speaker 1: it is, it's nineteen point five inches. I don't know
Speaker 1: what that is in metric. And the other reason why
Speaker 1: apparently he's really handsome is because his chin to filterrim
Speaker 1: ratio is two point six. The filterrim is those two
Speaker 1: lines underneath your nose.
Speaker 3: So this is like that golden ratio.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And so he is apparently like the perfect man.
Speaker 1: I'm putting this all in quote marks, just like Emerald
Speaker 1: Vanell with Wuthering Heights. He's meant to be the most
Speaker 1: handsome man. He earns more than one hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 1: a month teaching men how to be handsome, and he
Speaker 1: promises them that if they follow everything, they're going to
Speaker 1: get a lot of sleave maxing. Yes, slave maxing that
Speaker 1: means a lot of sex like slag axing. No, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: we live in twenty twenty six. What do you want
Speaker 1: from me? This is why Wuthering Heights is such a
Speaker 1: blessed a scale.
Speaker 5: It really is.
Speaker 4: It is a full time job. Like the intensive labor
Speaker 4: involved in this is out of control.
Speaker 1: Okay, but Devil's Advocate. Isn't it a good thing now
Speaker 1: that men are also being hemmed in and oppressed by
Speaker 1: beauty standards?
Speaker 2: Welcome to our hell, right. I know it's not like
Speaker 2: I'm joking, because I do sometimes get a little bit
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say it wrong, shash and freud. It's one
Speaker 2: of the out loud words we can't say shut when
Speaker 2: I see this because I'm like, yeah, men, we have
Speaker 2: been dealing with this forever. And there is also an
Speaker 2: argument that we've kind of danced around before, which is
Speaker 2: isn't it good that now the effort that people are
Speaker 2: putting in the effort the cost the energy cost that
Speaker 2: they're putting in, Because there's the literal cost, But then
Speaker 2: there is the time, the list that you read out earlier,
Speaker 2: Amelia of what that writer is doing, the amount of
Speaker 2: time and thought and priority that other things that have
Speaker 2: to be pushed aside for that. In a way, there's
Speaker 2: something almost healthy about that, because we used to all
Speaker 2: have to pretend that beauty was effortless, and the most
Speaker 2: high status beauty was always effortless beauty, and like being
Speaker 2: born blessed to look like Giselle was kind of the
Speaker 2: pinnacle of status. Whereas now it can be bought. It
Speaker 2: can be bought in lots of ways. It can be
Speaker 2: brought with the surgeon, it can be bought with medications,
Speaker 2: it can be bought with tweakments and serums and injectables,
Speaker 2: and so that's kind of democratizing, and it also pulls
Speaker 2: the curtain back a bit. It makes me think all
Speaker 2: the time. I have this boyfriend.
Speaker 5: Once he probably was a bit toxic, little bit Heathcliff,
Speaker 5: not all the way Heathcliff, little bit.
Speaker 2: Who I remember him describing this woman once and saying
Speaker 2: how hot she was, And he said, I love the
Speaker 2: way her hair's like falling out of her bun. And
Speaker 2: then he said, unless she's done that on purpose. If
Speaker 2: she's done that on purpose, not hot anymore, Like you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. So the effortlessness and that oh
Speaker 2: I just happened to be gorgeous used to be the
Speaker 2: beauty standard, and now it feels like the beauty standard
Speaker 2: is I have created this version of myself. Look how
Speaker 2: hard I've worked at it.
Speaker 4: I reckon it's more sinister because I think implicit within
Speaker 4: it is that looking after yourself is a virtue. And
Speaker 4: I find that and maybe it's my Catholic roots showing
Speaker 4: and that it's visible. Yes, if you are spending eight
Speaker 4: hours a day trying to be let's all be honest hotter,
Speaker 4: I think that's a I don't want to say, a
Speaker 4: moral failing, although maybe that is what I mean. I
Speaker 4: don't think that's good. I don't think it's good for
Speaker 4: you I don't think it's good for humanity. I don't
Speaker 4: think it's good for.
Speaker 1: The world, point taken. But I still want to know
Speaker 1: why it isn't a good thing that men are now
Speaker 1: having to do the same stuff that we've had to
Speaker 1: do for millennia. Why isn't that good that now men
Speaker 1: are also engaged?
Speaker 2: I like saying, well, now everybody's miserable, so that's better?
Speaker 3: And is it better?
Speaker 2: Wouldn't it be better if we were working more in
Speaker 2: the other direction to make everybody a little less veserable.
Speaker 1: So a little less attractive and happy?
Speaker 4: I was thinking about I'm very deep in Married at
Speaker 4: First Sight this season, and we've talked about this before,
Speaker 4: but the code word for everyone who's dating, the code
Speaker 4: that they speak in is they say, I just want
Speaker 4: someone who looks after themselves. Oh yeah, men and women
Speaker 4: say it completely catally.
Speaker 3: So what does that mean.
Speaker 4: It means that they're slim, and it means that they're hot,
Speaker 4: and it means that they hopefully have got their teeth done,
Speaker 4: they've got some veneers, they exercise, they eat, blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: I say, we think we can see healthy on people's faces,
Speaker 2: but we really want to Yeah, Yeah, they look like
Speaker 2: they've spent a lot of time fiddling with.
Speaker 4: And so what does that mean for people who up down?
Speaker 4: What does that mean for people who go that's not happen.
Speaker 1: That's what it means.
Speaker 2: If I have to call it sleive maxing, I'm happy
Speaker 2: to leave it up the shelf and just watch.
Speaker 1: There is something a little bit sinister about it too.
Speaker 1: I need to mention that bit killer he's been hanging
Speaker 1: out with some Nazis.
Speaker 4: I feel like there's a line there, like there's a
Speaker 4: bit is it a bit veering into eugenics?
Speaker 3: Like is there something that's a bit are we optimizing?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 6: So much.
Speaker 1: You're right, because you know, there was a Looks Maxer
Speaker 1: Influenza who was a man who was black, and he
Speaker 1: was basically hounded off platforms last year because people who
Speaker 1: are into looks Maxing are only into white looks maxes.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Right, So there's this particular aesthetic. Emmigreed is of
Speaker 4: course a woman of color, but other than that, the
Speaker 4: looks Maxing thing seems to be very skinny, rich white lady.
Speaker 2: You know what's funny about it? And this is very
Speaker 2: problematic to say, but I'm just going to say it
Speaker 2: is that when the perfect man who's created his perfect
Speaker 2: dimensions with.
Speaker 5: His you know, his chin measures.
Speaker 2: I want to him so bad, but you know, maybe
Speaker 2: it's all created by surgery. Maybe it's all self improvement,
Speaker 2: self care. And he and the perfect looks Maxing woman,
Speaker 2: you know, they fall in love and they love each
Speaker 2: other very much.
Speaker 5: They make a baby. That baby's gonna look fucking ordinary because.
Speaker 4: And then if you start with the looks maxing too,
Speaker 4: that they have to look back to their children because
Speaker 4: they can't be gone around with a that attractive child.
Speaker 1: I think it's realing, But you've hit on something really
Speaker 1: interesting about what the end goal of the looks Maxes is.
Speaker 1: Because I'm talking primarily here about the male looks maxes.
Speaker 1: I think women understand that if in fact you are attractive,
Speaker 1: you get more out of life in terms of like
Speaker 1: you're paid more, and you get more attention from the
Speaker 1: opposite sex and so on. I think for men in
Speaker 1: particular who are into looks Maxing, they talk a lot
Speaker 1: about the attention of women and the fact that how
Speaker 1: do you get the attention of women? How do you
Speaker 1: slay max Again, I'm so sorry that I keep using
Speaker 1: that word, but it's not about finding like a woman
Speaker 1: who they can perhaps be happy with, build a life with,
Speaker 1: like really connect with on a spiritual level. I think
Speaker 1: that's what they're going for. I think it is more
Speaker 1: about just getting the attention of as many women as possible,
Speaker 1: almost to sort of then boast about it to other
Speaker 1: looks Maxes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not about a deep, enduring relationship.
Speaker 3: I also worry, I think so.
Speaker 4: That if a looks maxa looks at me, I worry
Speaker 4: about what they'll say, because I'll say points that could
Speaker 4: be optimized.
Speaker 5: I remember when I was last single.
Speaker 2: I remember a friend of mine fixed me up with
Speaker 2: a guy who this was way before the term was coined,
Speaker 2: but he was definitely a looks max like always in
Speaker 2: the gym, very sweetly fragrance.
Speaker 5: Wish I'd got the rule around the time.
Speaker 2: And one of my friends fixed me up with him
Speaker 2: on like a day and it was clearly never gonna whatever.
Speaker 2: And her partner said to me one time after he
Speaker 2: had a drink, he was like, well, it was never
Speaker 2: gonna work, Like he.
Speaker 5: Really cares about what he looks like.
Speaker 2: And the thing is that was true, Like it was
Speaker 2: kind of like out at the time, but it was
Speaker 2: also true he cared about what he looked like a
Speaker 2: great deal, and obviously I care about what I look like.
Speaker 5: But there's a line I'm not prepared.
Speaker 2: To spend that much time, that that's much energy, that
Speaker 2: much risk, Like I'm just.
Speaker 1: So that's another interesting dynamic with the looks Maxis and
Speaker 1: the fact that they desperately want the attention of women,
Speaker 1: because I do think that heterosexual women struggle, well, I'm
Speaker 1: sure actually non heterosexual women also struggle with the concept
Speaker 1: of male vanity. It's a bit of a taboo in fact,
Speaker 1: men are not meant to care about what they look like,
Speaker 1: particularly when it comes to women, And maybe that's what
Speaker 1: they're sort of breaking down here.
Speaker 2: After the break, I have got some scorellous celebrity gossip
Speaker 2: that all teams with a particular.
Speaker 6: Theme out loud as it's mea you've heard Jesse, Holly
Speaker 6: and Amelia's Wathering Heights bad man theory. But there's more
Speaker 6: to unpack, including gossip about the premiere and who was
Speaker 6: who on the red carpet and why we've got a
Speaker 6: little bit of beef within the pod. Anyway, for tomorrow's
Speaker 6: subscriber episode, I'm going to tell you all about it.
Speaker 6: I'm sitting down with Whole and Amelia to unpack everything
Speaker 6: they thought about Margo and Jacob. So if you're not
Speaker 6: already a subscriber, you're going to forget, So follow the
Speaker 6: link in the show notes to get us in your
Speaker 6: ears five days a week.
Speaker 1: Right now, I'm bringing.
Speaker 2: The show home today with a scorelous gossip roundup that
Speaker 2: has a theme. We are teaming with a theme. How
Speaker 2: the hell are we handling tricky relationship moments on social
Speaker 2: media these days? In twenty twenty six, I start with
Speaker 2: the excellent Australian content creator, comedian actress Celeste Barber right
Speaker 2: on Friday, her hot husband and that's what he's always
Speaker 2: been known as. I'm not OBJECTI find the man. Appy
Speaker 2: Robin posted that after twenty years together and two kids,
Speaker 2: they have agreed to separate. He wrote, the past few
Speaker 2: months have been incredibly challenging and deeply heartbreaking for us both.
Speaker 2: After much reflection, the decision has been made to separate.
Speaker 2: There are still love and respect between us, but sadly
Speaker 2: we are at capacity and have come to recognize we
Speaker 2: may want for different things. Our priority remains our children
Speaker 2: and they're well being. We kindly for privacy and understanding
Speaker 2: as we navigate this. Obviously, the comments section gave a
Speaker 2: lot of privacy and understanding.
Speaker 1: Colley, can I just check did Celeste post as well?
Speaker 2: So this is what's quite interesting about this. Appy has
Speaker 2: two hundred and eighty eight thousand followers, a lot of followers,
Speaker 2: and he has in his bio now formerly known as
Speaker 2: hot Husband, and their relationship was quite part of her
Speaker 2: stick if you like. I think Celeste Barber's hilarious and
Speaker 2: I think probably Hot Husband started out because she was
Speaker 2: positioning herself as not hot up against all the models
Speaker 2: that she was impersonating and pointing out the beauty standards.
Speaker 2: She has been completely silent. She's been posting, but she's
Speaker 2: been posting to her very large following, just professional stuff
Speaker 2: like she's been, you know, touring, doing shows, launching products,
Speaker 2: but she hasn't official.
Speaker 5: She has not mentioned this at all.
Speaker 4: But his timing is interesting because we always say, knowing
Speaker 4: how the internet and traffic works, if you want to
Speaker 4: announce something that you want to fall under the radar,
Speaker 4: you either do it around Christmas holidays or you do
Speaker 4: it on a Friday night.
Speaker 3: Because newsrooms have gone on.
Speaker 2: I learned this from the West Wing that even in
Speaker 2: the olden days is called taking out the trash. You
Speaker 2: do it on a Friday night when no one's paying attention.
Speaker 5: So he posted.
Speaker 2: Then people did pay attention, and look, I think it's
Speaker 2: icky when people claim to have feelings about parasocial relationship.
Speaker 5: But I was quite sad shock. I always loved.
Speaker 2: Their dynamic, and it made me realize everyone who's got
Speaker 2: any kind of public profile has to make a decision
Speaker 2: about how public or not they're going to be with
Speaker 2: their relationship, their family, their real life right. And the
Speaker 2: problem is is that whatever you decide to do with that,
Speaker 2: particularly if you do decide to share, if and when
Speaker 2: things go pay shape, that leaves you with a bigger problem.
Speaker 1: I've often thought that's why Taylor Swift doesn't follow anyone,
Speaker 1: because she has been around in the public eye for
Speaker 1: long enough to know that things that you think are permanent,
Speaker 1: things that you think are going to be there forever,
Speaker 1: are not going to be there forever, and people are
Speaker 1: going to be picking over your social media as a result.
Speaker 2: Let's just say that if me and the elderly boyfriend
Speaker 2: and ever split, I know where all the public sympaty
Speaker 2: will go with him anyway. Moving on to happy news,
Speaker 2: Aida Nicodemu, friend of the Pod, Big Book Club Girlie
Speaker 2: been through a lot of shit. Aida Nicodemus of the Pod,
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh loud ad Ada's are out louder. She's
Speaker 2: obviously home on home and away and has been for
Speaker 2: a long time. She on Valentine's Day talking of how
Speaker 2: you handle it. She and James Stewart, her partner, announced
Speaker 2: it exactly the same time, with exactly the same video
Speaker 2: and exactly the same caption. I said yes, she said yes,
Speaker 2: And it's a little, very low five, very real video
Speaker 2: of him getting down on his knees and proposing to her
Speaker 2: in a cougie park. I may have got quite excited
Speaker 2: about that. These people are forty eight and fifty for decades,
Speaker 2: they've been friends since that for twenty five years, they've
Speaker 2: been dating for at least two they've both got teenagers.
Speaker 2: As I say, they've both been through a lot of
Speaker 2: stuff quite publicly, and I was like, yes, I hope
Speaker 2: they're gone in for a big wedding pay day. I
Speaker 2: don't know if that still exists in this era. No
Speaker 2: celebrity magazine's been in the toilet.
Speaker 4: But Holly, I keep waiting for my twin pregnancy pay day.
Speaker 4: I'm like, I swear just hello magazine not exist, because
Speaker 4: that I feel like they would like lap this up.
Speaker 3: And I've been waiting for a call where they just
Speaker 3: offer me a lump sum of money.
Speaker 1: Is it how I used to work?
Speaker 2: That's exactly how it used to work. We would call
Speaker 2: your agent. We'd say, what do you think Jesse would
Speaker 2: be thinking about? But don't wish for that because you
Speaker 2: know what the next sentence would be. We'd be like,
Speaker 2: what do you think Jesse would be thinking about for
Speaker 2: her twin announcement? In the agent would go, oh, you know,
Speaker 2: blah blah through out a figure, and then you go,
Speaker 2: what about a body after baby? We were thinking like
Speaker 2: eight weeks after birth, and the.
Speaker 5: Agent would wrap the price.
Speaker 7: Up's expensive, Holly, I everyone has their price, and then
Speaker 7: you'd go bikini question mark and then go that'll cost
Speaker 7: you another ten.
Speaker 2: That's what used to it, Jesse. Other celebrities being public
Speaker 2: with their private business. Tell me give me a Beckham update.
Speaker 1: Yeap.
Speaker 4: So the first thing I thought when I saw this
Speaker 4: story was, oh my god, the emotional weight of being
Speaker 4: a daughter, right, and this is Harper Beckham, the youngest Beckham,
Speaker 4: but notably the eldest daughter because she's the only daughter.
Speaker 4: She is fourteen years old. And she posted to Instagram
Speaker 4: over the weekend in what appears to be her first
Speaker 4: sort of acknowledgment of the rift estrangement Beckham situation, which
Speaker 4: was she posted a picture of her three brothers, Brooklyn,
Speaker 4: Cruz and Romeo just had the words I love you
Speaker 4: all so much. Words can't describe it, and Romeo and
Speaker 4: Victoria Beckham reposted it.
Speaker 1: She got reshared published. She has a private account by
Speaker 1: Victoria and by Romeo, and that in itself is kind
Speaker 1: of makes me feel uncomfortable because she chose I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm sure they sought her permission for it, but she
Speaker 1: did post it to a much more limited group of people, and.
Speaker 4: It becomes and then when you do that, it becomes performance,
Speaker 4: which just feels like such a less intimate Do you
Speaker 4: just look at some of this stuff and you're like, oh,
Speaker 4: we having conversations behind the scenes.
Speaker 1: It feels like Victoria's trying to prove a point by
Speaker 1: sharing it publicly, which Harper wasn't making by not sharing it.
Speaker 4: Now, this is in stark contrast to Cruz, who a
Speaker 4: few months ago reposted a Daily Mail article that alleged
Speaker 4: that Victoria and David had unfollowed Brooklyn, and he basically went, no,
Speaker 4: they didn't, Brooklyn unfollowed them, and blah blah blah, like
Speaker 4: he's been waiting into it a little bit. And I
Speaker 4: remember thinking when I saw that a daughter could never
Speaker 4: because the role of a daughter in the family dynamic
Speaker 4: is often to consider and weigh up everyone's emotional needs
Speaker 4: and try and keep the equilibrium of the family. And
Speaker 4: that's why I felt when I saw Harper do that
Speaker 4: at fourteen, I just went that show's probably emotional intelligence,
Speaker 4: but also like her own grief about the whole.
Speaker 2: Thing that's been of emotional intelligence. And this isn't directed
Speaker 2: at Hart because she's literally fourteen, but Amelia.
Speaker 1: Isn't it weird?
Speaker 2: The Beckham because actually Cruz Beckham also posted last week
Speaker 2: and he posted some random pictures from his life. He's
Speaker 2: got a record to promote, he's in a band now,
Speaker 2: and there were pictures of Brooklyn in that like throwback old.
Speaker 5: Pictures of that isn't the lesson was supposed to get
Speaker 5: from this.
Speaker 2: All this a merely that if they all love each
Speaker 2: other so much, maybe keeping off the social.
Speaker 1: For me feel like those children have grown up learning
Speaker 1: that the most important way to express love, or certainly
Speaker 1: an important way to express love is on Instagram. Because
Speaker 1: David and Victoria are constantly telling us how much they
Speaker 1: love their children on Instagram, and I don't understand why
Speaker 1: I need to know, Like that's great for them, but
Speaker 1: why why do they tell us this? And isn't that
Speaker 1: kind of Unbritish to be constantly emotioning in that way?
Speaker 2: I don't think it is anymore, because I think social
Speaker 2: media's changed it, because I'm always kind of surprised, Like
Speaker 2: not surprised for Victorian and David, it's their brand, but
Speaker 2: the kids being so open all the time on social
Speaker 2: seems a little bit strange.
Speaker 5: But then I was my niece who's not.
Speaker 2: Obviously famous or whatever, but she just turned twenty one
Speaker 2: and on the day that she did, her feet is
Speaker 2: just full of all her friends posting pictures of them together,
Speaker 2: how much they love her, go queen. All that stuff
Speaker 2: that is just very very normal now for a generation.
Speaker 2: Is that at any major moment that you do post
Speaker 2: about it, and you're expected to post about it for
Speaker 2: about the people you love, and you're expected to tag
Speaker 2: them and they're expected to reshare it.
Speaker 5: And I just wonder.
Speaker 2: If actually celebrities are just reflecting what the young people
Speaker 2: makes me sound a hundred but what is very ordinary?
Speaker 2: I always remember and Vernham said to us that if
Speaker 2: people didn't post about her on her birthday, should be
Speaker 2: a bit upset, for example.
Speaker 4: The problem with that, though, is the more you post,
Speaker 4: like Claire and I are constantly linking to each other
Speaker 4: going or there's been a breakup, like a this is
Speaker 4: like people in our lives or like you know, minor
Speaker 4: celebrities or whatever where you can tell because the declarations
Speaker 4: of love have stopped, or because the cadence of posting
Speaker 4: has changed or whatever. Like when you let people in
Speaker 4: for a little glimpse, you then give them a license
Speaker 4: to kind of speculate on the ins and outs of
Speaker 4: your life.
Speaker 1: That's exactly it, and that's where we started this conversation.
Speaker 1: And I think that if you're telling people about the
Speaker 1: good times, they are going to expect that you can
Speaker 1: communicate with them through the bad times too. And I
Speaker 1: think that we really see that tension around celebrity divorce announcements,
Speaker 1: and I was thinking about, how do you remember when
Speaker 1: Sasha Baron Cohen and isle of Fisher announced their divorce
Speaker 1: or their separation. It was them wearing tennis clothes about
Speaker 1: a match, and it was the match being over, and
Speaker 1: it was this extended tennis metaphor, and look, I know
Speaker 1: you love tennis, but that was too much. It just
Speaker 1: felt too contrived.
Speaker 4: All like inauthentic. And then on the other hand, there
Speaker 4: was a story recently. It was a local, kind of
Speaker 4: Australian celebrity story. Couple had broken up, lots of followers
Speaker 4: between them, questions about what had happened that a lot
Speaker 4: of people had But then it got into child support
Speaker 4: and what time this person showed up for a visit,
Speaker 4: and it became this back and forth between two people
Speaker 4: that are clearly really hurt and have a complicated personal relationship.
Speaker 4: I was thinking it would take such restraint not to
Speaker 4: say anything, especially if your partner has an enormous public
Speaker 4: platform that they're maybe profiting off or whatever, and you
Speaker 4: know you could do real damage.
Speaker 2: Or presenting a version of themselves that you deeply feel
Speaker 2: is untrue. Like that, Again, this is not just celebrity business,
Speaker 2: but if you're sort of seeing an ex partner or
Speaker 2: whatever professing to be the world's most wonderful dad, or
Speaker 2: social media when you're kind of like, well, you haven't
Speaker 2: seen the kids, for like, the temptation is huge. We
Speaker 2: literally have this microphone where we can put people on blast,
Speaker 2: we can put our feelings on blast, and it takes
Speaker 2: a lot of restraint and maturity. I guess to not
Speaker 2: did you catch Nicole Kidman's Valentine's Day post? Just on
Speaker 2: this What did she posted?
Speaker 3: Because normally she would post about Keith, Well.
Speaker 2: They are because this is what's to your point, Amelia,
Speaker 2: about can you redraw the boundaries once you've kind of gone, oh, actually,
Speaker 2: I don't want to tell everybody about this messiness. She
Speaker 2: and Keith were always very public with their declarations of love,
Speaker 2: weren't they. And on Saturday she just posted a rather
Speaker 2: sexy picture of herself in a man's shirt, which is
Speaker 2: a look Nick rocks, and it just said Happy Gallantines
Speaker 2: with a love.
Speaker 1: Heart and I was also perfectly shot and lit. We
Speaker 1: need to pay.
Speaker 3: Very lovely day.
Speaker 5: She was like, I cannot let this go on. Marked
Speaker 5: that's all we've got time for.
Speaker 2: On Today's show, out loud is Thank you for being
Speaker 2: here with us, and thank you to our amazing team
Speaker 2: for helping us put this show together.
Speaker 3: Bye bye.
Speaker 4: Ma Mayer acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on
Speaker 4: which we have recorded this podcast.