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Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia out Loud. It's what

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Speaker 2: women are actually talking about on Monday, the sixteenth of February.

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Speaker 3: I'm Olly Wayne, right, I'm Jesse Stevens.

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Speaker 1: And I'm Amelia Lester.

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Speaker 2: And here's what's on our agenda for today. Wuthering Heights

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Speaker 2: and the return of the Bad.

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Speaker 1: Man looks Maxing Are we really doing this now?

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Speaker 4: And Harper Beckham, Celeste Barber and the question of how

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Speaker 4: to handle very tricky relationship moments on social media.

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Speaker 2: But first, in case you missed it, did we just

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Speaker 2: see another shit skirt flying off a glass.

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Speaker 5: Cliff in Australian politics?

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Speaker 2: Or is what just happened in the Liberal Party a

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Speaker 2: little more complicated than that?

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Speaker 5: Quick catch up?

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Speaker 2: And don't worry, we are going to keep it brief.

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Speaker 2: I know that everybody's tolerance of a discussion about politics like,

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Speaker 2: oh god, we are going to keep it brief. But

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Speaker 2: last Friday, the worst kept secret and Australian politics played

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Speaker 2: out exactly as predicted. The first female leader of the

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Speaker 2: Liberal Party, Susan Lee, lost her job.

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Speaker 5: She was rolled, as.

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Speaker 2: We so charmingly put it in Australia by Angus Taylor,

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Speaker 2: a man who's been stalking that job for about a decade.

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Speaker 2: She served nine months in the role, and no one

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Speaker 2: who's been watching political headlines lately could really argue that

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Speaker 2: she did a very good job. Although my shit skirt

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Speaker 2: analogy is just a refresher for anyone who doesn't remember.

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Speaker 2: This is that when something political is in a terrible mess.

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Speaker 2: So let's imagine, for example, that your party just lost

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Speaker 2: the election in a landslide and your primary vote is

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Speaker 2: in collapse and you've been chased out of every city

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Speaker 2: in the country, as the Liberal Party has. Sometimes people go, oh,

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Speaker 2: this is a good idea, a good time to put

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Speaker 2: a woman in charge.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 4: So the president for that, of course is Theresa May

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Speaker 4: inheriting Brexit right, and so you were just like she

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Speaker 4: was given this pile of little all shit and told

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Speaker 4: to deal with it, and there was no solution.

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Speaker 2: The idea is that you're dealing with You're trying to

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Speaker 2: clean up this mess, and whichever way you do it,

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Speaker 2: everyone in the gallery is just going, no, you need

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Speaker 2: a stay and remover on that.

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Speaker 5: No, a bit assault model, get it out, vinegars. What

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Speaker 5: you need you're doing it wrong.

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Speaker 4: And you're just rubbing it in and needs to be

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Speaker 4: set on fire.

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Speaker 1: Are you going to explain why it was not in

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Speaker 1: fact a shitskirt? She didn't do a good child.

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Speaker 5: So she didn't do a good job. Poles are in

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Speaker 5: the toilet. Toilet not another analogy, poles are and toy.

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Speaker 2: But the argument about the shitskirt and the glass cliff

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Speaker 2: is whether or not anybody could have really done a

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Speaker 2: good job in this particular position.

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Speaker 3: She didn't get out the sad.

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Speaker 2: She really didn't get out the sad, and everyone else

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Speaker 2: is like, I've got the side anyway. So after that

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Speaker 2: landslide election loss, the Libs had a big argument about

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Speaker 2: what they had to do. Either try and win back

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Speaker 2: the cities that they lost to the Teals or go

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Speaker 2: after the votes that they're losing to one nation in

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Speaker 2: the regions. And Lee managed to do neither of those things.

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Speaker 2: And the polling on the Liberal Party and now in

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Speaker 2: the toilet, as I discussed there sometimes party the Nationals

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Speaker 2: are on this on off love affair and they are

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Speaker 2: now behind one nation in the polls. And this is

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Speaker 2: quite the feat because the Liberals historically in Australia have

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Speaker 2: been in power more than any other party. There used

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Speaker 2: to be the default government pretty much and now they

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Speaker 2: are third in the polls.

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Speaker 4: In the last election, the Liberal Party which lost abysmally,

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Speaker 4: they had thirty two percent of preference votes and then

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Speaker 4: a recent poll this was cited in Jaquelin Malee's column

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Speaker 4: over the weekend, said that they're down to about eighteen

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Speaker 4: percent of the primary vote. So whether it was a

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Speaker 4: man or a woman, with those polling numbers, the party

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Speaker 4: had no choice but to replace that leader.

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Speaker 1: Has that ever happened before that one nation has overtaken

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Speaker 1: the Libs?

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Speaker 5: No?

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Speaker 2: No, no, they are on the ascent at the moment.

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Speaker 2: Step in Angus Taylor, who is a Liberal leader from

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Speaker 2: Central Casting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. First, starting with his name, Angus Taylor.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he could not be more of an Anglo liberal

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Speaker 2: white guy if he tried. I did hear some people

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Speaker 2: talking on Friday about like he looks like a leader,

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Speaker 2: which is code for.

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Speaker 5: Would be the penis.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the penis and the fact like he's from a

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Speaker 2: farming family, but he went to a very posh private

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Speaker 2: boys school.

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Speaker 5: He was a Rhodes scholar.

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Speaker 2: He's that guy business da da da, He's the liberal

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Speaker 2: guy and he has stepped in, and of course he

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Speaker 2: knows how to get the shit out of the skirt.

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Speaker 1: What do we think, friends, So is he going to

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Speaker 1: take it further to the right and try and get

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Speaker 1: the one nation vote or do you think he's going

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Speaker 1: to like double down on sort of more old school. Ye.

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Speaker 4: I think he's going to go a little bit more right,

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Speaker 4: and he's definitely from the conservative faction of the party.

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Speaker 4: But in saying that, he's also like, I want to

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Speaker 4: bring us back to John Howard era politics. And it's

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Speaker 4: an interesting strategy given that the Liberal Party have lost

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Speaker 4: women and they've lost young people. So to put in

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Speaker 4: a conservative guy who doesn't particularly appeal to either of

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Speaker 4: those demographics, as far as I can tell, is an

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Speaker 4: interesting play. He's the guy, and I felt like this

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Speaker 4: was important context.

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Speaker 2: I know what you're gonna tell us, and this is

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Speaker 2: maybe the best political story everybody pay attention again.

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Speaker 4: Twenty nineteen Facebook status by Angus Taylor about something great

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Speaker 4: that he was doing in politics, and then there was

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Speaker 4: a comment. It was his official Liberal Party account, and

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Speaker 4: then there was a comment underneath that said fantastic, great move,

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Speaker 4: well done, Angus, And that was from Angus Taylor MP,

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Speaker 4: and he had commented on his own Facebook page but

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Speaker 4: like forgotten to change the name. So he's all of

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Speaker 4: us trying to.

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Speaker 1: Like drum up a bit of hype latest program exactly.

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Speaker 4: It's incredibly relatable. But he's that guy, and he has

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Speaker 4: had like a very long list of faux pas. I

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Speaker 4: suppose he was behind a lot of the very unpopular

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Speaker 4: policies that came forward in the last election, Like he

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Speaker 4: was the guy behind the stopping work from home policy, right, But.

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Speaker 5: That's not a faux part.

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Speaker 1: Faux part makes it sound like he used the wrong fork.

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Speaker 1: This is like what he did that.

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Speaker 4: With policy, just unpopular policies. He was very against the

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Speaker 4: Stage three tax cards. He's very much like when you

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Speaker 4: look back, it's not like he's been a particularly popular

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Speaker 4: politician by any means.

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Speaker 1: But his name is Angus Taylor, and he's a man,

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Speaker 1: and he comes from a farm. Yes, stop asking questions.

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Speaker 5: He's very ambitious.

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Speaker 2: The thing is is that Susan Lee, who has been

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Speaker 2: gracious in stepping away, has left them with the shit skirt,

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Speaker 2: which I respect because she's going to quit. She's not

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Speaker 2: just stepping away from being the leader. She's actually quitting

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Speaker 2: and what that means is they have to have a

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Speaker 2: by election in her seat, and what that means is

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Speaker 2: that they are going to be tested against one nation

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Speaker 2: because she's a regional southern New South Wales seat. They're

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Speaker 2: going to be tested against one nation for the first

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Speaker 2: time since the polls shifted. And so in a way

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Speaker 2: that is Susan Lee's very past agg way of going well,

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Speaker 2: fuck you, because I'm sure they would rather not be

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Speaker 2: fine an election that quickly in that seat.

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Speaker 5: But Susan Lee is gone nut. I'm We're handing you

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Speaker 5: the sad and I am walking away.

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Speaker 1: Could we say she flounced?

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Speaker 3: She floxd.

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Speaker 4: Wuthering Heights, the brand new film directed by Emerald Fanell,

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Speaker 4: starring our very own Margot Robbie and Jacob Lordie, smashed

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Speaker 4: the box office in its opening weekend. But despite the

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Speaker 4: hole that the film has on our culture right now,

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Speaker 4: from the press tour to the fashion to the very

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Speaker 4: thorny discussions about sex and power and the enduring appeal

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Speaker 4: of a very bad man, reviews are mixed. I'm not

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Speaker 4: sure if I have ever seen audience as this divided

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Speaker 4: in terms of like even critics going from one star

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Speaker 4: to five stars, right.

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Speaker 3: You almost don't know how the reviewer is going to go.

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Speaker 5: It's a Veggiem movie.

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Speaker 6: It is.

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Speaker 5: It movie?

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Speaker 4: Yes, So we read Nicki Gemmel's Color in the Australian.

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Speaker 4: She gave it a five star rating, saying she inhaled

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Speaker 4: it with her groin was how she put it, her

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Speaker 4: first five star rating ever for a film, whereas the

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Speaker 4: Independent gave it one star. They said Emerald Fanell's astonishingly

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Speaker 4: bad adaptation is like a limp Mills and Boon. Some

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Speaker 4: say the chemistry is outstanding, others say none exists between

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Speaker 4: Robbie and a Lordie. Another says Emily Bronte rolling in

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Speaker 4: her grave, while another says it's Fanelle's best film to date.

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Speaker 4: Now most people listening probably haven't seen it, right, It

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Speaker 4: only just came out. But what we did want to

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Speaker 4: talk about is the cultural phenomenon of this nineteenth century

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Speaker 4: classic and the re emergence of the bad man Holly.

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Speaker 4: Should you and I feel ashamed of how much we

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Speaker 4: loved it with our groin?

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Speaker 2: We should?

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Speaker 5: Definitely.

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Speaker 2: We are very bad feminists today, Jesse and I both

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Speaker 2: on the record, I believe of saying that we loved it,

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Speaker 2: I did love it. And I'm also on the record

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Speaker 2: of saying that I also love the book.

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Speaker 5: The thing that's really.

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Speaker 1: Less controversially, well except if you've read the book.

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Speaker 2: It's actually not less controversial because the book. People that

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Speaker 2: are doing a lot of huffing about bad men after

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Speaker 2: watching that and they're like, but he's mean and that

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Speaker 2: relationship looks unhealthy, and I'm like, maybe you should read

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Speaker 2: the book, like it gets a whole lot worse than that.

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Speaker 5: Not that that's a defense, but.

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Speaker 2: I think it's really interesting because there's no question the

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Speaker 2: way that this movie has been marketed. One of the

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Speaker 2: ways that Fanelle chose to market it was with the

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Speaker 2: words the greatest love story of our time. Right now,

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Speaker 2: I don't think that's ever what the book was. It's

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Speaker 2: never what it was pretending to be. It's a really dark,

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Speaker 2: twisted exploration.

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Speaker 5: Of all kinds of seedy things, but it.

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Speaker 2: Has this obsessive relationship at the heart of it. And

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Speaker 2: what's really interesting is seeing people grappling with that in

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Speaker 2: our culture now, where we have to absolutely unrightly in

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Speaker 2: many ways disclose that we are against relationships that don't

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Speaker 2: look healthy. There is nothing healthy about this relationship other

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Speaker 2: than their sex. Life, which looks very healthy in the

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Speaker 2: back of a carriage or up against a rock.

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Speaker 6: But apart from.

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Speaker 2: That, there's no question that Heathcliff is the archetype, possibly

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Speaker 2: one of the original archetypes, along with other Bronte heroes

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Speaker 2: like mister Rochester. For the brooding, tortured bad man.

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Speaker 4: Yes that women, there was almost a tongue in cheek

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Speaker 4: lusting after him that I felt like the whole theater

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Speaker 4: was almost laughing at because he was yeah, yeah, Amelia,

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Speaker 4: are you a five star review?

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Speaker 1: No, I hated it, And I want to be clear

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Speaker 1: that I'm not coming from a puritanical place, because I

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Speaker 1: did enjoy Saltburn, which is for Nell's second feature and

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Speaker 1: which was extremely sexual in many ways. What I object

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Speaker 1: to in this is that this movie is not sexy,

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Speaker 1: and yet I'm being constant told about how sexy it is.

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Speaker 2: Okay, but it's just a personal choice, Like I thought

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Speaker 2: it was really sexy.

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Speaker 3: Do you think?

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Speaker 4: And I wonder if this is what it comes down to,

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Speaker 4: is whether or not you thought, because I think it's

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Speaker 4: very female gaze, and it's whether or not you find

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Speaker 4: Jacob Alordie to be a sex god or not, or whether.

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Speaker 1: I find like raw eggs in sheets to be sexy.

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Speaker 1: I think that's hard to clean up, and.

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Speaker 3: About that so much about clean.

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Speaker 1: And that's an issue because I've got enough laundry already.

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Speaker 1: The problem is that she called it the greatest loster

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Speaker 1: of our time. You know, I don't think that this

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Speaker 1: book was ever meant to be a great cluster. It's

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Speaker 1: an exploration of how love can yes be toxic, to

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Speaker 1: use a very modern term. And it's also about race

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Speaker 1: and sex and class and all these topics that basically

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Speaker 1: got pushed aside on trauma just so that we could

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Speaker 1: have a lot of shots of there's so much food

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Speaker 1: in this movie that I'm meant to find sexy. The egg,

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Speaker 1: the jelly, Margot, Robbie puts her finger in some jelly.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of jelly happening. It just made me

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Speaker 1: long for baby girl. Remember Nicole Kidman's the movie where

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Speaker 1: she had the affair with the younger man and he

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Speaker 1: drank a glass of milk. That's sexy. Don't ask me why,

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Speaker 1: but that was sexy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I do think that was I do think that

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Speaker 3: was sexy.

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Speaker 4: But I have a theory about why this has been

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Speaker 4: such a cultural phenomenon, right, because I mean because we've

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Speaker 4: been forced to consume it like at all times for

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Speaker 4: the last three months. Margot Robbie seems capable of something

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Speaker 4: that just about no other actor can do, which is

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Speaker 4: that she inspires a movement like Barber was a movement.

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Speaker 4: This is true from fashion to conversations to everything. You

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Speaker 4: just go this is what every movie whish is they

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Speaker 4: could be.

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Speaker 2: She's incredibly smart about so clever projects, directors, scripts like

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Speaker 2: because the thing is about this is it's the Emerald

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Speaker 2: finale of it all right. Yeah, Saltburn was controversial, Saltburn

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Speaker 2: was over the top, Saltburn was silly. This takes all

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Speaker 2: those themes and turns up to eleven. Then you add

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Speaker 2: in ready made culture war argument really about whether or

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Speaker 2: not this is a love story, whether or not it's

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Speaker 2: good role modeling, whether or not we should have adapted

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Speaker 2: a classic in the first place, And you have got

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Speaker 2: an instant vibe.

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Speaker 1: Well you've got another layer too, which is she just

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Speaker 1: also had to look at the fact that women are

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Speaker 1: reading smart in huge numbers, and that's just a ready

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Speaker 1: made audience for it too.

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Speaker 3: But I wonder too.

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Speaker 4: My theory is that in a world that is being

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Speaker 4: taken over by AI. So design to video, to ads,

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Speaker 4: to fonts, to films to whatever, there's a almost like

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Speaker 4: a banality to a lot of it that is all

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Speaker 4: starting to look the same. They say that AI generated

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Speaker 4: means that all writing starts to sound the same. That

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Speaker 4: sort of thing in order to cut through the genre

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Speaker 4: that seems to be as sending right now is absurdist.

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Speaker 4: So the best comedy show I saw last year was

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Speaker 4: the most absurd, ridiculous, unexplainable thing and had nudity in it,

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Speaker 4: and it was whatever happened in that room could never

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Speaker 4: be replicated again. And I was like, oh, this is

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Speaker 4: the anti AI revoultion Gary Starr and he does this

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Speaker 4: Penguin classic show. It's coming back to Australia. You have

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Speaker 4: to see it, and it's gone around the world and

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Speaker 4: it's won every award right, And I just think that

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Speaker 4: watching this I went there is something so ridiculous, over

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Speaker 4: the top.

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Speaker 3: Edgy, weird.

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Speaker 4: Even kinks like AI can't predict the weirdness of human kinks, right,

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Speaker 4: And so I think that that's part of what we're

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Speaker 4: just loving. And it's Marty Supreme falls into the same category,

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Speaker 4: which is just this weirdness that a robot could never.

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Speaker 2: I think it's like, if I'm going to leave my

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Speaker 2: house and I'm going to go sit in a theater.

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Speaker 5: For too long, let's be on the record with that.

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Speaker 2: Like my main complaint if I have a complaint about

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Speaker 2: this movie is it could have easily shaved past for

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Speaker 2: an hour and nobody it would have been fine. But

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Speaker 2: if I'm going to go and do that, what I

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Speaker 2: want is an experience. And now I want a good time.

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Speaker 2: And I got that with Marty Supreme. I was in

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Speaker 2: that movie theater like kind of it wasn't a perfect film,

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Speaker 2: but I was gasping.

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Speaker 4: I was like, no way, it was unpredictability and this

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Speaker 4: was the same.

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Speaker 2: I got a really good time in that room. I

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Speaker 2: just want to go back to Bad Men for a

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Speaker 2: moment because I'm seeing a lot of hot takes. I

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Speaker 2: think we might be putting on on Mamma Mia today

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Speaker 2: about how we all need to remember that in real

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Speaker 2: life Heathcliffs are bad and they are right, there is

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Speaker 2: no question right. The archetype of that man who loves

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Speaker 2: you so much he will do anything for you, you know,

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Speaker 2: including hurt everyone in the world, including you, and himself

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Speaker 2: and everything in fantasy is great. In reality, as those

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Speaker 2: of us who've had the misfortune to experience it is toxic, controlling, awful,

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Speaker 2: veers into violence, not to be encouraged. But let's give

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Speaker 2: women the respect of knowing that they're smart and they

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Speaker 2: know the difference between fantasy and reality. I think we've

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Speaker 2: been talking heats lately about obsessive fandoms, like around heated rivalry,

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Speaker 2: around pop music, around all kinds of things. There's something

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Speaker 2: about female desire that can be very powerful and obsessive,

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Speaker 2: and we're always looking for like safe places to put that.

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Speaker 2: And I think it's okay for us to lose ourselves

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Speaker 2: in a heathcliff for a couple of hours and for

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Speaker 2: it not to mean that we really wish that we

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Speaker 2: are in a terrible, controlling, abusive relationship.

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Speaker 5: I think we've got that.

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Speaker 2: And when women are making their own art, which this

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Speaker 2: is written by a woman, produced by a woman, directed

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Speaker 2: by a woman, and it's playing with these dangerous tropes,

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Speaker 2: I think that's fine.

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Speaker 4: Do you think it's also a bit of a backlash

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Speaker 4: to a trend we've had over films, certainly since Me Too,

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Speaker 4: but longer than that, which are didactic in a lot

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Speaker 4: of ways about how our relationships ought to look feminist overtones,

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Speaker 4: which is great, but the pendulum seems to have swung

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Speaker 4: a little bit and gone, what if we were to

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Speaker 4: just lean into the naughtiness which we saw with fifty Shades?

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Speaker 4: That absolutely worked, how provocative it is, and I think

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Speaker 4: that's why there were moments where everyone was laughing because

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Speaker 4: they were just like, we know that this isn't good

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Speaker 4: for us, but can't we just look at it and

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Speaker 4: think that Jacob a Lordie looks hot with his shirt?

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Speaker 1: Laughter was more we were embarrassed because there's so much

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Speaker 1: repression in that movie. The movie is about like subliminating

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Speaker 1: sexual desire into things like egg yolks or aspect, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I think that we're embarrassed on behalf of the

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Speaker 1: people in it because we know how hard they were

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Speaker 1: pressing their true emotions.

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Speaker 4: Was part of why you didn't like it that you

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Speaker 4: felt as though it was like dangerous for women, Like

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Speaker 4: did you think that it was.

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Speaker 1: A bit yeah, a bit, yeah, Yeah, I think that's true.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was a little bit like you will

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Speaker 1: find this sexy, and you know what's not sexy? People

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Speaker 1: telling you incessantly that something is sexy like that problem.

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Speaker 2: Also women on a homogeneous blop like some of us

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Speaker 2: will find that very sexy and some of us will not.

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Speaker 2: Some of us will be thinking about a lordie lifting

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Speaker 2: her up by a corset strings, and some of us

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Speaker 2: will not.

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Speaker 1: I also couldn't understand what he was saying a lot

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Speaker 1: of the time. It was to being and I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Jacob, what what did you just say?

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Speaker 2: Maybe this part of why this is my movie is

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Speaker 2: that Yorkshire accent.

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Speaker 5: Oh my god, it was really good. I just think

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Speaker 5: it's like these heroes pop up.

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Speaker 2: We know they're bad for us, Edward and Twilight, Noah

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Speaker 2: in the notebook, they'll be think pieces about like girls.

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Speaker 5: Remember I'm working.

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Speaker 3: You don't want a heath click, and.

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Speaker 2: That's fine, you actually do not want to hear I

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Speaker 2: will be on the record, but it's okay. Lose yourself

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Speaker 2: in it for a couple of hours.

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Speaker 3: I completely agree.

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Speaker 5: Loved it.

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Speaker 2: If you have seen Weathering heights, or if you were

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Speaker 2: wondering whether or not to see Weathering heights, we are

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Speaker 2: going to go I'm not going to say deep I was.

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Speaker 5: We're going to say deep in amiliates like don't. I'm like,

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Speaker 5: you're fair.

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Speaker 2: We are going to go in depth into Wathering Heights

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Speaker 2: with Mia tomorrow, Amelia and myself. Amelia didn't like it,

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Speaker 2: me who loved it. But also a bit of behind

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Speaker 2: the scenes gossip, a bit of industry stuff, a bit of.

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Speaker 5: Margo, a bit of all that stuff.

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Speaker 2: All on tomorrow's subscriber episode stilled by our very own

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Speaker 2: ma of Friedman.

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Speaker 1: After the break, the substack about beauty routines, which has

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00:19:19,074 --> 00:19:29,273
Speaker 1: me thinking that none of this is fun anymore. I

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00:19:29,434 --> 00:19:32,273
Speaker 1: like reading fashion substacks by people with better taste than

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00:19:32,314 --> 00:19:34,074
Speaker 1: me so I can figure out what to wear. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of a guilty pleasure of mine. And one of

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Speaker 1: them is called Magazine, and it's written by a woman

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Speaker 1: named Laura Riley. Now I looked up her age before this,

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Speaker 1: but she doesn't disclose her age, which gosh, I wish

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Speaker 1: I didn't disclose my age. But it's very much out

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Speaker 1: there if you'd like to find out what it is anyway,

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Speaker 1: If I had to guess, she's probably in her late thirties,

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Speaker 1: and she wrote something recently which kind of depressed me

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Speaker 1: and made me never want to read about people's skincare

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Speaker 1: routines again. She wrote the following in January alone. I've

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00:20:03,154 --> 00:20:09,874
Speaker 1: done botox, m face IPL scheduled moxy broadband, seeing my orthodontist, cardiologist,

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00:20:10,074 --> 00:20:16,594
Speaker 1: gp obg wyn, ophthalmologist, dermatologists, plastic surgeon, trainer, and Polate's instructor.

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Speaker 1: I've renewed my health insurance and MEDSPA membership. I don't

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00:20:20,354 --> 00:20:23,954
Speaker 1: know what a medspy ownership is. I've drawn blood three times,

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Speaker 1: that's too many times to draw blood and given two

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Speaker 1: urine samples. My current skincare routine is six to eight steps.

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Speaker 1: My daily supplement stack is seventeen pills, twenty on mondays

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00:20:34,394 --> 00:20:37,674
Speaker 1: and a peptide. And I've engaged at least five high

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Speaker 1: tech tools from my home device library. I've tracked every

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Speaker 1: meal macro and relevant micro nutrient. I still do all

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Speaker 1: of this macro macro. It's not the question I had

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Speaker 1: for breakfast this morning. All of this, and I consider

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Speaker 1: myself pretty healthy and not hypochondriac.

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Speaker 5: So, my god, I just does she have a job.

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Speaker 5: I just thought, is this.

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Speaker 1: What we're doing now?

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Speaker 5: Holly?

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Speaker 1: How are you going? Are you doing this? Well?

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Speaker 5: It is what we're doing now.

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Speaker 2: It's not what I'm doing now, but I've I'm doing

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00:21:07,674 --> 00:21:09,594
Speaker 2: well if I've got like a serum and a moisturizer,

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00:21:09,634 --> 00:21:12,074
Speaker 2: and I might look at me go, but this is

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00:21:12,074 --> 00:21:15,674
Speaker 2: everywhere I'm looking. At the moment, I was on my Instagram.

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Speaker 2: On my Instagram Emma Greed, Who's somebody I like to follow.

439
00:21:19,194 --> 00:21:21,434
Speaker 2: She is, you know, the Skim's Boss lady, who's like

440
00:21:21,474 --> 00:21:24,154
Speaker 2: the archetype of the girl boss of the moment. She's

441
00:21:24,154 --> 00:21:25,914
Speaker 2: just got had a book out about it and stuff.

442
00:21:26,234 --> 00:21:30,074
Speaker 2: She posted her regimen, like just her supplements regiment. She

443
00:21:30,234 --> 00:21:34,354
Speaker 2: takes sixteen different pills every day, some of the morning,

444
00:21:34,354 --> 00:21:37,154
Speaker 2: some for night, which is something I'm suddenly seeing everywhere. Yeah,

445
00:21:37,554 --> 00:21:39,874
Speaker 2: the discussion about it and then all these different pills

446
00:21:39,874 --> 00:21:40,394
Speaker 2: and potions.

447
00:21:40,674 --> 00:21:41,474
Speaker 5: Some of it is.

448
00:21:41,474 --> 00:21:44,794
Speaker 2: Under the guise of longevity, which is something I'm seeing

449
00:21:44,834 --> 00:21:46,793
Speaker 2: a lot, particularly with women at the minute. We all

450
00:21:46,874 --> 00:21:50,034
Speaker 2: know that the longevity craze kind of really started taking

451
00:21:50,034 --> 00:21:52,394
Speaker 2: hold in the bro culture of Silicon Valley, but now

452
00:21:52,514 --> 00:21:55,754
Speaker 2: it's very much kind of merging with beauty standards to

453
00:21:55,794 --> 00:21:59,674
Speaker 2: become something women a I ungenerously think it's the new

454
00:22:00,074 --> 00:22:02,634
Speaker 2: You can't say anti aging anymore, because we've all got

455
00:22:02,674 --> 00:22:07,834
Speaker 2: to be age positive, but longevity sounds in a positive

456
00:22:07,834 --> 00:22:10,594
Speaker 2: and healthy but really it's the same and I'm seeing

457
00:22:10,594 --> 00:22:14,793
Speaker 2: this everywhere, as well as the Miranda Curz, the Trinny

458
00:22:14,794 --> 00:22:17,914
Speaker 2: Goodles of it all who are wearing their what's Triny doing?

459
00:22:18,074 --> 00:22:20,634
Speaker 2: She took a picture of herself in the morning the

460
00:22:20,634 --> 00:22:23,234
Speaker 2: other day wearing her infra red mask, some kind of

461
00:22:23,354 --> 00:22:26,754
Speaker 2: helmet that had red light underneath it. She was like,

462
00:22:26,954 --> 00:22:31,794
Speaker 2: just all of these ye like Mia has, and she's

463
00:22:31,834 --> 00:22:32,954
Speaker 2: just getting about her day.

464
00:22:32,834 --> 00:22:36,754
Speaker 4: Looking It's like a board that you stand on that

465
00:22:36,834 --> 00:22:39,834
Speaker 4: apparently is good for bone density, and it just it's

466
00:22:39,874 --> 00:22:41,154
Speaker 4: like a vibrating.

467
00:22:40,674 --> 00:22:42,114
Speaker 5: Boarde the emint to stand on.

468
00:22:42,834 --> 00:22:44,833
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't even know where to start, because

469
00:22:45,034 --> 00:22:48,194
Speaker 4: the first thing when you read out all of those

470
00:22:48,234 --> 00:22:50,874
Speaker 4: appointments and all the people I've seen, is the conflation

471
00:22:51,194 --> 00:22:56,474
Speaker 4: of beauty and health. Like seeing your GP is not

472
00:22:56,754 --> 00:23:01,073
Speaker 4: the same as seeing a facialist. They are just completely

473
00:23:01,114 --> 00:23:04,194
Speaker 4: different things. The other thing I noticed was the use

474
00:23:04,234 --> 00:23:10,474
Speaker 4: of my GP my ophthalmologist begyn, which indicates you can't

475
00:23:10,474 --> 00:23:13,274
Speaker 4: talk about this stuff without going There is such enormous privilege,

476
00:23:13,274 --> 00:23:16,994
Speaker 4: particularly in the States, of having your own specialist doctors,

477
00:23:17,034 --> 00:23:21,914
Speaker 4: like most people who genuinely have a heart issue, would

478
00:23:21,994 --> 00:23:25,154
Speaker 4: struggle to pay for cardiologists, Like the healthcare system is

479
00:23:25,194 --> 00:23:29,194
Speaker 4: totally broken, and I like cringe at the idea of

480
00:23:29,234 --> 00:23:31,994
Speaker 4: her having a cardiologist to go and check that her

481
00:23:31,994 --> 00:23:34,314
Speaker 4: thirty something year old heart is great.

482
00:23:34,794 --> 00:23:37,194
Speaker 5: I think it's status, right, A status.

483
00:23:37,194 --> 00:23:41,194
Speaker 2: Emma Read's massive collection of pills and potions is status.

484
00:23:41,234 --> 00:23:43,234
Speaker 1: She has so many of them that, according to that

485
00:23:43,274 --> 00:23:47,874
Speaker 1: Instagram caption, she pays her child to organize her supplements

486
00:23:47,914 --> 00:23:48,314
Speaker 1: for her.

487
00:23:49,114 --> 00:23:51,954
Speaker 3: And I think it's like, what what is all this about?

488
00:23:52,154 --> 00:23:54,634
Speaker 4: Is it about an ultimate fear of death, which is

489
00:23:54,754 --> 00:24:00,154
Speaker 4: like the longevity science stuff. I find the rhetoric of

490
00:24:00,234 --> 00:24:03,234
Speaker 4: like scientific language around this to be a little bit

491
00:24:03,794 --> 00:24:06,674
Speaker 4: disingenuous because it's like you're just putting goo on your face.

492
00:24:06,674 --> 00:24:12,114
Speaker 1: What all of this is about is about looking hot. Yes,

493
00:24:12,594 --> 00:24:16,954
Speaker 1: it's just vanity. Because there's a term for what this

494
00:24:17,114 --> 00:24:20,834
Speaker 1: is called, and it looks maxing. And the definition of

495
00:24:20,874 --> 00:24:24,714
Speaker 1: looks maxing is trying to raise your social, your sexual

496
00:24:24,794 --> 00:24:29,834
Speaker 1: market value by optimizing your attractiveness. This is absolutely something

497
00:24:29,874 --> 00:24:30,914
Speaker 1: Heathcliff would have loved.

498
00:24:31,354 --> 00:24:33,313
Speaker 2: But I was going to say, that's not a new idea.

499
00:24:33,394 --> 00:24:35,274
Speaker 2: We've just got all these new ways to do it right,

500
00:24:35,274 --> 00:24:37,874
Speaker 2: so hot people have always enjoyed a lot of status.

501
00:24:38,114 --> 00:24:40,594
Speaker 4: There was a line in that in that substack that

502
00:24:40,714 --> 00:24:44,594
Speaker 4: was like, my group chats are planning out cos medical tourism,

503
00:24:44,874 --> 00:24:46,554
Speaker 4: and I bet yours are too, And.

504
00:24:46,514 --> 00:24:47,474
Speaker 3: I was like, is this satire?

505
00:24:47,554 --> 00:24:48,034
Speaker 5: This is a funny.

506
00:24:48,034 --> 00:24:50,874
Speaker 1: I'm not in your group chat, but is that what

507
00:24:50,874 --> 00:24:51,714
Speaker 1: you're talking about?

508
00:24:52,234 --> 00:24:54,434
Speaker 4: Generally, it's trying to find a tie place for dinner.

509
00:24:54,594 --> 00:24:56,674
Speaker 4: It's not looking at where we're going to go in

510
00:24:56,674 --> 00:24:58,874
Speaker 4: the world to get some ridiculous new face.

511
00:24:58,994 --> 00:25:01,794
Speaker 1: But the key thing is that men are getting involved

512
00:25:01,834 --> 00:25:05,434
Speaker 1: in this now too. And there's a guy called Clovicula.

513
00:25:05,594 --> 00:25:08,313
Speaker 1: I kept seeing this word and just it was a

514
00:25:08,354 --> 00:25:10,474
Speaker 1: news story that I wanted to opt out of. But

515
00:25:10,514 --> 00:25:12,234
Speaker 1: in the end I just had to read about him

516
00:25:12,274 --> 00:25:15,754
Speaker 1: because I kept seeing him everywhere. He is a young

517
00:25:15,834 --> 00:25:19,154
Speaker 1: man who gets his name because apparently the length of

518
00:25:19,194 --> 00:25:22,234
Speaker 1: his clavicle is ideal. If you'd like to know what

519
00:25:22,274 --> 00:25:24,513
Speaker 1: it is, it's nineteen point five inches. I don't know

520
00:25:24,554 --> 00:25:26,994
Speaker 1: what that is in metric. And the other reason why

521
00:25:27,034 --> 00:25:30,074
Speaker 1: apparently he's really handsome is because his chin to filterrim

522
00:25:30,194 --> 00:25:33,354
Speaker 1: ratio is two point six. The filterrim is those two

523
00:25:33,434 --> 00:25:34,634
Speaker 1: lines underneath your nose.

524
00:25:34,754 --> 00:25:36,234
Speaker 3: So this is like that golden ratio.

525
00:25:37,274 --> 00:25:41,234
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And so he is apparently like the perfect man.

526
00:25:41,394 --> 00:25:43,954
Speaker 1: I'm putting this all in quote marks, just like Emerald

527
00:25:43,994 --> 00:25:46,634
Speaker 1: Vanell with Wuthering Heights. He's meant to be the most

528
00:25:46,674 --> 00:25:49,194
Speaker 1: handsome man. He earns more than one hundred thousand dollars

529
00:25:49,234 --> 00:25:51,273
Speaker 1: a month teaching men how to be handsome, and he

530
00:25:51,314 --> 00:25:54,434
Speaker 1: promises them that if they follow everything, they're going to

531
00:25:54,474 --> 00:25:57,754
Speaker 1: get a lot of sleave maxing. Yes, slave maxing that

532
00:25:57,874 --> 00:26:02,114
Speaker 1: means a lot of sex like slag axing. No, I'm sorry,

533
00:26:02,274 --> 00:26:04,154
Speaker 1: we live in twenty twenty six. What do you want

534
00:26:04,154 --> 00:26:06,313
Speaker 1: from me? This is why Wuthering Heights is such a

535
00:26:06,314 --> 00:26:07,354
Speaker 1: blessed a scale.

536
00:26:07,314 --> 00:26:08,074
Speaker 5: It really is.

537
00:26:08,274 --> 00:26:12,914
Speaker 4: It is a full time job. Like the intensive labor

538
00:26:13,154 --> 00:26:16,474
Speaker 4: involved in this is out of control.

539
00:26:16,514 --> 00:26:20,114
Speaker 1: Okay, but Devil's Advocate. Isn't it a good thing now

540
00:26:20,194 --> 00:26:24,033
Speaker 1: that men are also being hemmed in and oppressed by

541
00:26:24,034 --> 00:26:24,914
Speaker 1: beauty standards?

542
00:26:24,954 --> 00:26:29,793
Speaker 2: Welcome to our hell, right. I know it's not like

543
00:26:30,114 --> 00:26:32,674
Speaker 2: I'm joking, because I do sometimes get a little bit

544
00:26:32,754 --> 00:26:35,754
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say it wrong, shash and freud. It's one

545
00:26:35,754 --> 00:26:42,314
Speaker 2: of the out loud words we can't say shut when

546
00:26:42,354 --> 00:26:44,394
Speaker 2: I see this because I'm like, yeah, men, we have

547
00:26:44,434 --> 00:26:47,394
Speaker 2: been dealing with this forever. And there is also an

548
00:26:47,594 --> 00:26:50,994
Speaker 2: argument that we've kind of danced around before, which is

549
00:26:50,994 --> 00:26:54,273
Speaker 2: isn't it good that now the effort that people are

550
00:26:54,314 --> 00:26:57,994
Speaker 2: putting in the effort the cost the energy cost that

551
00:26:57,994 --> 00:27:00,594
Speaker 2: they're putting in, Because there's the literal cost, But then

552
00:27:00,594 --> 00:27:03,314
Speaker 2: there is the time, the list that you read out earlier,

553
00:27:03,474 --> 00:27:06,434
Speaker 2: Amelia of what that writer is doing, the amount of

554
00:27:06,434 --> 00:27:10,273
Speaker 2: time and thought and priority that other things that have

555
00:27:10,354 --> 00:27:13,594
Speaker 2: to be pushed aside for that. In a way, there's

556
00:27:13,594 --> 00:27:16,794
Speaker 2: something almost healthy about that, because we used to all

557
00:27:16,834 --> 00:27:20,634
Speaker 2: have to pretend that beauty was effortless, and the most

558
00:27:20,714 --> 00:27:23,954
Speaker 2: high status beauty was always effortless beauty, and like being

559
00:27:24,034 --> 00:27:27,634
Speaker 2: born blessed to look like Giselle was kind of the

560
00:27:27,714 --> 00:27:32,114
Speaker 2: pinnacle of status. Whereas now it can be bought. It

561
00:27:32,154 --> 00:27:33,954
Speaker 2: can be bought in lots of ways. It can be

562
00:27:33,994 --> 00:27:36,434
Speaker 2: brought with the surgeon, it can be bought with medications,

563
00:27:36,474 --> 00:27:39,554
Speaker 2: it can be bought with tweakments and serums and injectables,

564
00:27:40,474 --> 00:27:43,274
Speaker 2: and so that's kind of democratizing, and it also pulls

565
00:27:43,314 --> 00:27:45,033
Speaker 2: the curtain back a bit. It makes me think all

566
00:27:45,034 --> 00:27:46,034
Speaker 2: the time. I have this boyfriend.

567
00:27:46,034 --> 00:27:48,554
Speaker 5: Once he probably was a bit toxic, little bit Heathcliff,

568
00:27:48,594 --> 00:27:49,994
Speaker 5: not all the way Heathcliff, little bit.

569
00:27:50,114 --> 00:27:52,394
Speaker 2: Who I remember him describing this woman once and saying

570
00:27:52,434 --> 00:27:54,273
Speaker 2: how hot she was, And he said, I love the

571
00:27:54,274 --> 00:27:56,273
Speaker 2: way her hair's like falling out of her bun. And

572
00:27:56,314 --> 00:27:59,073
Speaker 2: then he said, unless she's done that on purpose. If

573
00:27:59,154 --> 00:28:01,834
Speaker 2: she's done that on purpose, not hot anymore, Like you

574
00:28:01,834 --> 00:28:04,994
Speaker 2: know what I mean. So the effortlessness and that oh

575
00:28:05,034 --> 00:28:06,914
Speaker 2: I just happened to be gorgeous used to be the

576
00:28:06,874 --> 00:28:09,554
Speaker 2: beauty standard, and now it feels like the beauty standard

577
00:28:09,674 --> 00:28:13,553
Speaker 2: is I have created this version of myself. Look how

578
00:28:13,594 --> 00:28:14,634
Speaker 2: hard I've worked at it.

579
00:28:15,354 --> 00:28:17,994
Speaker 4: I reckon it's more sinister because I think implicit within

580
00:28:18,034 --> 00:28:22,313
Speaker 4: it is that looking after yourself is a virtue. And

581
00:28:22,394 --> 00:28:25,114
Speaker 4: I find that and maybe it's my Catholic roots showing

582
00:28:25,154 --> 00:28:28,354
Speaker 4: and that it's visible. Yes, if you are spending eight

583
00:28:28,394 --> 00:28:32,033
Speaker 4: hours a day trying to be let's all be honest hotter,

584
00:28:32,874 --> 00:28:35,154
Speaker 4: I think that's a I don't want to say, a

585
00:28:35,274 --> 00:28:38,634
Speaker 4: moral failing, although maybe that is what I mean. I

586
00:28:38,634 --> 00:28:40,474
Speaker 4: don't think that's good. I don't think it's good for

587
00:28:40,514 --> 00:28:42,354
Speaker 4: you I don't think it's good for humanity. I don't

588
00:28:42,354 --> 00:28:42,834
Speaker 4: think it's good for.

589
00:28:42,794 --> 00:28:45,474
Speaker 1: The world, point taken. But I still want to know

590
00:28:45,554 --> 00:28:47,634
Speaker 1: why it isn't a good thing that men are now

591
00:28:47,674 --> 00:28:49,714
Speaker 1: having to do the same stuff that we've had to

592
00:28:49,754 --> 00:28:52,514
Speaker 1: do for millennia. Why isn't that good that now men

593
00:28:52,554 --> 00:28:53,754
Speaker 1: are also engaged?

594
00:28:53,834 --> 00:28:56,794
Speaker 2: I like saying, well, now everybody's miserable, so that's better?

595
00:28:57,034 --> 00:28:58,514
Speaker 3: And is it better?

596
00:28:58,514 --> 00:29:00,194
Speaker 2: Wouldn't it be better if we were working more in

597
00:29:00,194 --> 00:29:03,554
Speaker 2: the other direction to make everybody a little less veserable.

598
00:29:03,194 --> 00:29:05,114
Speaker 1: So a little less attractive and happy?

599
00:29:05,354 --> 00:29:08,554
Speaker 4: I was thinking about I'm very deep in Married at

600
00:29:08,554 --> 00:29:11,154
Speaker 4: First Sight this season, and we've talked about this before,

601
00:29:11,234 --> 00:29:14,914
Speaker 4: but the code word for everyone who's dating, the code

602
00:29:14,954 --> 00:29:17,474
Speaker 4: that they speak in is they say, I just want

603
00:29:17,514 --> 00:29:20,834
Speaker 4: someone who looks after themselves. Oh yeah, men and women

604
00:29:20,874 --> 00:29:22,394
Speaker 4: say it completely catally.

605
00:29:23,194 --> 00:29:24,874
Speaker 3: So what does that mean.

606
00:29:25,154 --> 00:29:27,794
Speaker 4: It means that they're slim, and it means that they're hot,

607
00:29:28,274 --> 00:29:30,954
Speaker 4: and it means that they hopefully have got their teeth done,

608
00:29:30,954 --> 00:29:35,274
Speaker 4: they've got some veneers, they exercise, they eat, blah blah blah.

609
00:29:35,234 --> 00:29:37,914
Speaker 2: I say, we think we can see healthy on people's faces,

610
00:29:37,914 --> 00:29:41,074
Speaker 2: but we really want to Yeah, Yeah, they look like

611
00:29:41,114 --> 00:29:42,794
Speaker 2: they've spent a lot of time fiddling with.

612
00:29:42,794 --> 00:29:45,074
Speaker 4: And so what does that mean for people who up down?

613
00:29:45,634 --> 00:29:48,994
Speaker 4: What does that mean for people who go that's not happen.

614
00:29:50,394 --> 00:29:53,594
Speaker 1: That's what it means.

615
00:29:53,994 --> 00:29:56,434
Speaker 2: If I have to call it sleive maxing, I'm happy

616
00:29:56,474 --> 00:29:58,034
Speaker 2: to leave it up the shelf and just watch.

617
00:30:02,114 --> 00:30:04,954
Speaker 1: There is something a little bit sinister about it too.

618
00:30:05,794 --> 00:30:08,794
Speaker 1: I need to mention that bit killer he's been hanging

619
00:30:08,794 --> 00:30:09,954
Speaker 1: out with some Nazis.

620
00:30:10,914 --> 00:30:13,434
Speaker 4: I feel like there's a line there, like there's a

621
00:30:13,434 --> 00:30:16,474
Speaker 4: bit is it a bit veering into eugenics?

622
00:30:16,514 --> 00:30:18,634
Speaker 3: Like is there something that's a bit are we optimizing?

623
00:30:18,874 --> 00:30:19,034
Speaker 1: Yes?

624
00:30:19,154 --> 00:30:19,554
Speaker 6: So much.

625
00:30:19,794 --> 00:30:22,394
Speaker 1: You're right, because you know, there was a Looks Maxer

626
00:30:22,514 --> 00:30:25,154
Speaker 1: Influenza who was a man who was black, and he

627
00:30:25,234 --> 00:30:29,794
Speaker 1: was basically hounded off platforms last year because people who

628
00:30:29,914 --> 00:30:35,354
Speaker 1: are into looks Maxing are only into white looks maxes.

629
00:30:35,514 --> 00:30:38,674
Speaker 4: Yeah. Right, So there's this particular aesthetic. Emmigreed is of

630
00:30:38,674 --> 00:30:40,794
Speaker 4: course a woman of color, but other than that, the

631
00:30:40,914 --> 00:30:44,834
Speaker 4: looks Maxing thing seems to be very skinny, rich white lady.

632
00:30:44,874 --> 00:30:46,794
Speaker 2: You know what's funny about it? And this is very

633
00:30:47,034 --> 00:30:48,954
Speaker 2: problematic to say, but I'm just going to say it

634
00:30:48,994 --> 00:30:52,074
Speaker 2: is that when the perfect man who's created his perfect

635
00:30:52,114 --> 00:30:52,874
Speaker 2: dimensions with.

636
00:30:52,874 --> 00:30:54,714
Speaker 5: His you know, his chin measures.

637
00:30:54,834 --> 00:30:58,034
Speaker 2: I want to him so bad, but you know, maybe

638
00:30:58,074 --> 00:31:00,674
Speaker 2: it's all created by surgery. Maybe it's all self improvement,

639
00:31:00,714 --> 00:31:04,114
Speaker 2: self care. And he and the perfect looks Maxing woman,

640
00:31:04,594 --> 00:31:06,314
Speaker 2: you know, they fall in love and they love each

641
00:31:06,314 --> 00:31:06,994
Speaker 2: other very much.

642
00:31:07,194 --> 00:31:11,274
Speaker 5: They make a baby. That baby's gonna look fucking ordinary because.

643
00:31:12,634 --> 00:31:14,794
Speaker 4: And then if you start with the looks maxing too,

644
00:31:15,034 --> 00:31:17,434
Speaker 4: that they have to look back to their children because

645
00:31:17,434 --> 00:31:19,634
Speaker 4: they can't be gone around with a that attractive child.

646
00:31:19,754 --> 00:31:22,674
Speaker 1: I think it's realing, But you've hit on something really

647
00:31:22,714 --> 00:31:26,034
Speaker 1: interesting about what the end goal of the looks Maxes is.

648
00:31:26,194 --> 00:31:30,074
Speaker 1: Because I'm talking primarily here about the male looks maxes.

649
00:31:30,114 --> 00:31:33,554
Speaker 1: I think women understand that if in fact you are attractive,

650
00:31:33,634 --> 00:31:35,834
Speaker 1: you get more out of life in terms of like

651
00:31:35,874 --> 00:31:38,034
Speaker 1: you're paid more, and you get more attention from the

652
00:31:38,154 --> 00:31:40,394
Speaker 1: opposite sex and so on. I think for men in

653
00:31:40,434 --> 00:31:42,634
Speaker 1: particular who are into looks Maxing, they talk a lot

654
00:31:42,634 --> 00:31:45,594
Speaker 1: about the attention of women and the fact that how

655
00:31:45,594 --> 00:31:47,114
Speaker 1: do you get the attention of women? How do you

656
00:31:47,194 --> 00:31:49,594
Speaker 1: slay max Again, I'm so sorry that I keep using

657
00:31:49,634 --> 00:31:53,354
Speaker 1: that word, but it's not about finding like a woman

658
00:31:53,354 --> 00:31:56,154
Speaker 1: who they can perhaps be happy with, build a life with,

659
00:31:56,514 --> 00:32:00,314
Speaker 1: like really connect with on a spiritual level. I think

660
00:32:00,514 --> 00:32:03,714
Speaker 1: that's what they're going for. I think it is more

661
00:32:03,794 --> 00:32:07,874
Speaker 1: about just getting the attention of as many women as possible,

662
00:32:07,954 --> 00:32:10,074
Speaker 1: almost to sort of then boast about it to other

663
00:32:10,114 --> 00:32:10,914
Speaker 1: looks Maxes.

664
00:32:11,434 --> 00:32:14,354
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not about a deep, enduring relationship.

665
00:32:14,394 --> 00:32:15,994
Speaker 3: I also worry, I think so.

666
00:32:15,794 --> 00:32:18,594
Speaker 4: That if a looks maxa looks at me, I worry

667
00:32:18,594 --> 00:32:22,034
Speaker 4: about what they'll say, because I'll say points that could

668
00:32:22,034 --> 00:32:22,714
Speaker 4: be optimized.

669
00:32:22,954 --> 00:32:24,674
Speaker 5: I remember when I was last single.

670
00:32:25,114 --> 00:32:27,074
Speaker 2: I remember a friend of mine fixed me up with

671
00:32:27,114 --> 00:32:29,914
Speaker 2: a guy who this was way before the term was coined,

672
00:32:29,914 --> 00:32:32,074
Speaker 2: but he was definitely a looks max like always in

673
00:32:32,114 --> 00:32:34,994
Speaker 2: the gym, very sweetly fragrance.

674
00:32:37,434 --> 00:32:39,314
Speaker 5: Wish I'd got the rule around the time.

675
00:32:39,594 --> 00:32:41,754
Speaker 2: And one of my friends fixed me up with him

676
00:32:41,794 --> 00:32:44,274
Speaker 2: on like a day and it was clearly never gonna whatever.

677
00:32:44,994 --> 00:32:48,274
Speaker 2: And her partner said to me one time after he

678
00:32:48,354 --> 00:32:50,194
Speaker 2: had a drink, he was like, well, it was never

679
00:32:50,274 --> 00:32:51,794
Speaker 2: gonna work, Like he.

680
00:32:51,674 --> 00:32:53,474
Speaker 5: Really cares about what he looks like.

681
00:32:55,034 --> 00:32:56,954
Speaker 2: And the thing is that was true, Like it was

682
00:32:57,034 --> 00:32:58,554
Speaker 2: kind of like out at the time, but it was

683
00:32:58,594 --> 00:33:01,114
Speaker 2: also true he cared about what he looked like a

684
00:33:01,154 --> 00:33:03,474
Speaker 2: great deal, and obviously I care about what I look like.

685
00:33:03,514 --> 00:33:06,074
Speaker 5: But there's a line I'm not prepared.

686
00:33:05,674 --> 00:33:08,594
Speaker 2: To spend that much time, that that's much energy, that

687
00:33:08,714 --> 00:33:09,834
Speaker 2: much risk, Like I'm just.

688
00:33:09,834 --> 00:33:13,074
Speaker 1: So that's another interesting dynamic with the looks Maxis and

689
00:33:13,114 --> 00:33:15,274
Speaker 1: the fact that they desperately want the attention of women,

690
00:33:15,354 --> 00:33:19,834
Speaker 1: because I do think that heterosexual women struggle, well, I'm

691
00:33:19,874 --> 00:33:23,314
Speaker 1: sure actually non heterosexual women also struggle with the concept

692
00:33:23,354 --> 00:33:26,914
Speaker 1: of male vanity. It's a bit of a taboo in fact,

693
00:33:27,034 --> 00:33:29,434
Speaker 1: men are not meant to care about what they look like,

694
00:33:29,674 --> 00:33:32,234
Speaker 1: particularly when it comes to women, And maybe that's what

695
00:33:32,274 --> 00:33:33,674
Speaker 1: they're sort of breaking down here.

696
00:33:34,474 --> 00:33:37,674
Speaker 2: After the break, I have got some scorellous celebrity gossip

697
00:33:37,754 --> 00:33:40,234
Speaker 2: that all teams with a particular.

698
00:33:39,714 --> 00:33:46,914
Speaker 6: Theme out loud as it's mea you've heard Jesse, Holly

699
00:33:46,954 --> 00:33:50,754
Speaker 6: and Amelia's Wathering Heights bad man theory. But there's more

700
00:33:50,794 --> 00:33:54,354
Speaker 6: to unpack, including gossip about the premiere and who was

701
00:33:54,394 --> 00:33:56,834
Speaker 6: who on the red carpet and why we've got a

702
00:33:56,834 --> 00:33:59,794
Speaker 6: little bit of beef within the pod. Anyway, for tomorrow's

703
00:33:59,794 --> 00:34:02,394
Speaker 6: subscriber episode, I'm going to tell you all about it.

704
00:34:02,594 --> 00:34:05,714
Speaker 6: I'm sitting down with Whole and Amelia to unpack everything

705
00:34:05,754 --> 00:34:08,513
Speaker 6: they thought about Margo and Jacob. So if you're not

706
00:34:08,554 --> 00:34:11,354
Speaker 6: already a subscriber, you're going to forget, So follow the

707
00:34:11,393 --> 00:34:12,953
Speaker 6: link in the show notes to get us in your

708
00:34:12,994 --> 00:34:14,513
Speaker 6: ears five days a week.

709
00:34:14,834 --> 00:34:17,553
Speaker 1: Right now, I'm bringing.

710
00:34:17,194 --> 00:34:20,554
Speaker 2: The show home today with a scorelous gossip roundup that

711
00:34:20,634 --> 00:34:23,154
Speaker 2: has a theme. We are teaming with a theme. How

712
00:34:23,194 --> 00:34:26,874
Speaker 2: the hell are we handling tricky relationship moments on social

713
00:34:26,914 --> 00:34:30,834
Speaker 2: media these days? In twenty twenty six, I start with

714
00:34:30,954 --> 00:34:35,834
Speaker 2: the excellent Australian content creator, comedian actress Celeste Barber right

715
00:34:36,314 --> 00:34:39,874
Speaker 2: on Friday, her hot husband and that's what he's always

716
00:34:39,874 --> 00:34:42,754
Speaker 2: been known as. I'm not OBJECTI find the man. Appy

717
00:34:42,834 --> 00:34:46,394
Speaker 2: Robin posted that after twenty years together and two kids,

718
00:34:46,714 --> 00:34:50,594
Speaker 2: they have agreed to separate. He wrote, the past few

719
00:34:50,594 --> 00:34:53,874
Speaker 2: months have been incredibly challenging and deeply heartbreaking for us both.

720
00:34:53,954 --> 00:34:56,754
Speaker 2: After much reflection, the decision has been made to separate.

721
00:34:57,034 --> 00:34:59,354
Speaker 2: There are still love and respect between us, but sadly

722
00:34:59,434 --> 00:35:01,913
Speaker 2: we are at capacity and have come to recognize we

723
00:35:01,994 --> 00:35:05,354
Speaker 2: may want for different things. Our priority remains our children

724
00:35:05,354 --> 00:35:08,873
Speaker 2: and they're well being. We kindly for privacy and understanding

725
00:35:08,914 --> 00:35:12,114
Speaker 2: as we navigate this. Obviously, the comments section gave a

726
00:35:12,114 --> 00:35:14,194
Speaker 2: lot of privacy and understanding.

727
00:35:14,714 --> 00:35:17,274
Speaker 1: Colley, can I just check did Celeste post as well?

728
00:35:17,594 --> 00:35:20,314
Speaker 2: So this is what's quite interesting about this. Appy has

729
00:35:20,354 --> 00:35:23,354
Speaker 2: two hundred and eighty eight thousand followers, a lot of followers,

730
00:35:23,354 --> 00:35:25,634
Speaker 2: and he has in his bio now formerly known as

731
00:35:25,674 --> 00:35:28,754
Speaker 2: hot Husband, and their relationship was quite part of her

732
00:35:29,314 --> 00:35:31,594
Speaker 2: stick if you like. I think Celeste Barber's hilarious and

733
00:35:31,594 --> 00:35:34,074
Speaker 2: I think probably Hot Husband started out because she was

734
00:35:34,114 --> 00:35:36,914
Speaker 2: positioning herself as not hot up against all the models

735
00:35:36,954 --> 00:35:40,194
Speaker 2: that she was impersonating and pointing out the beauty standards.

736
00:35:40,714 --> 00:35:43,594
Speaker 2: She has been completely silent. She's been posting, but she's

737
00:35:43,634 --> 00:35:46,554
Speaker 2: been posting to her very large following, just professional stuff

738
00:35:46,634 --> 00:35:50,674
Speaker 2: like she's been, you know, touring, doing shows, launching products,

739
00:35:51,034 --> 00:35:51,914
Speaker 2: but she hasn't official.

740
00:35:52,274 --> 00:35:54,154
Speaker 5: She has not mentioned this at all.

741
00:35:54,274 --> 00:35:58,874
Speaker 4: But his timing is interesting because we always say, knowing

742
00:35:58,954 --> 00:36:02,194
Speaker 4: how the internet and traffic works, if you want to

743
00:36:02,474 --> 00:36:04,634
Speaker 4: announce something that you want to fall under the radar,

744
00:36:04,754 --> 00:36:08,433
Speaker 4: you either do it around Christmas holidays or you do

745
00:36:08,474 --> 00:36:09,314
Speaker 4: it on a Friday night.

746
00:36:09,434 --> 00:36:11,114
Speaker 3: Because newsrooms have gone on.

747
00:36:11,394 --> 00:36:13,474
Speaker 2: I learned this from the West Wing that even in

748
00:36:13,514 --> 00:36:15,194
Speaker 2: the olden days is called taking out the trash. You

749
00:36:15,234 --> 00:36:17,394
Speaker 2: do it on a Friday night when no one's paying attention.

750
00:36:17,554 --> 00:36:18,354
Speaker 5: So he posted.

751
00:36:18,394 --> 00:36:21,274
Speaker 2: Then people did pay attention, and look, I think it's

752
00:36:21,314 --> 00:36:24,914
Speaker 2: icky when people claim to have feelings about parasocial relationship.

753
00:36:24,554 --> 00:36:27,754
Speaker 5: But I was quite sad shock. I always loved.

754
00:36:27,634 --> 00:36:31,634
Speaker 2: Their dynamic, and it made me realize everyone who's got

755
00:36:31,674 --> 00:36:33,834
Speaker 2: any kind of public profile has to make a decision

756
00:36:34,114 --> 00:36:35,834
Speaker 2: about how public or not they're going to be with

757
00:36:35,874 --> 00:36:39,834
Speaker 2: their relationship, their family, their real life right. And the

758
00:36:39,954 --> 00:36:42,074
Speaker 2: problem is is that whatever you decide to do with that,

759
00:36:42,114 --> 00:36:45,314
Speaker 2: particularly if you do decide to share, if and when

760
00:36:45,394 --> 00:36:48,154
Speaker 2: things go pay shape, that leaves you with a bigger problem.

761
00:36:48,194 --> 00:36:51,954
Speaker 1: I've often thought that's why Taylor Swift doesn't follow anyone,

762
00:36:53,074 --> 00:36:55,834
Speaker 1: because she has been around in the public eye for

763
00:36:55,914 --> 00:36:58,514
Speaker 1: long enough to know that things that you think are permanent,

764
00:36:58,594 --> 00:37:00,354
Speaker 1: things that you think are going to be there forever,

765
00:37:00,714 --> 00:37:02,514
Speaker 1: are not going to be there forever, and people are

766
00:37:02,554 --> 00:37:04,834
Speaker 1: going to be picking over your social media as a result.

767
00:37:05,274 --> 00:37:07,114
Speaker 2: Let's just say that if me and the elderly boyfriend

768
00:37:07,154 --> 00:37:09,274
Speaker 2: and ever split, I know where all the public sympaty

769
00:37:09,354 --> 00:37:13,594
Speaker 2: will go with him anyway. Moving on to happy news,

770
00:37:14,154 --> 00:37:19,154
Speaker 2: Aida Nicodemu, friend of the Pod, Big Book Club Girlie

771
00:37:19,554 --> 00:37:22,834
Speaker 2: been through a lot of shit. Aida Nicodemus of the Pod,

772
00:37:22,994 --> 00:37:27,433
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh loud ad Ada's are out louder. She's

773
00:37:27,434 --> 00:37:29,594
Speaker 2: obviously home on home and away and has been for

774
00:37:29,634 --> 00:37:33,513
Speaker 2: a long time. She on Valentine's Day talking of how

775
00:37:33,554 --> 00:37:36,794
Speaker 2: you handle it. She and James Stewart, her partner, announced

776
00:37:36,834 --> 00:37:39,434
Speaker 2: it exactly the same time, with exactly the same video

777
00:37:39,474 --> 00:37:43,154
Speaker 2: and exactly the same caption. I said yes, she said yes,

778
00:37:43,194 --> 00:37:46,274
Speaker 2: And it's a little, very low five, very real video

779
00:37:46,474 --> 00:37:48,553
Speaker 2: of him getting down on his knees and proposing to her

780
00:37:48,514 --> 00:37:51,154
Speaker 2: in a cougie park. I may have got quite excited

781
00:37:51,194 --> 00:37:56,393
Speaker 2: about that. These people are forty eight and fifty for decades,

782
00:37:56,474 --> 00:37:59,274
Speaker 2: they've been friends since that for twenty five years, they've

783
00:37:59,314 --> 00:38:02,354
Speaker 2: been dating for at least two they've both got teenagers.

784
00:38:02,794 --> 00:38:04,754
Speaker 2: As I say, they've both been through a lot of

785
00:38:04,794 --> 00:38:08,274
Speaker 2: stuff quite publicly, and I was like, yes, I hope

786
00:38:08,354 --> 00:38:10,834
Speaker 2: they're gone in for a big wedding pay day. I

787
00:38:10,874 --> 00:38:13,354
Speaker 2: don't know if that still exists in this era. No

788
00:38:13,714 --> 00:38:15,234
Speaker 2: celebrity magazine's been in the toilet.

789
00:38:15,274 --> 00:38:17,834
Speaker 4: But Holly, I keep waiting for my twin pregnancy pay day.

790
00:38:18,114 --> 00:38:20,994
Speaker 4: I'm like, I swear just hello magazine not exist, because

791
00:38:21,074 --> 00:38:23,154
Speaker 4: that I feel like they would like lap this up.

792
00:38:23,554 --> 00:38:25,234
Speaker 3: And I've been waiting for a call where they just

793
00:38:25,354 --> 00:38:27,394
Speaker 3: offer me a lump sum of money.

794
00:38:27,474 --> 00:38:28,393
Speaker 1: Is it how I used to work?

795
00:38:28,474 --> 00:38:30,354
Speaker 2: That's exactly how it used to work. We would call

796
00:38:30,434 --> 00:38:32,674
Speaker 2: your agent. We'd say, what do you think Jesse would

797
00:38:32,674 --> 00:38:34,554
Speaker 2: be thinking about? But don't wish for that because you

798
00:38:34,594 --> 00:38:36,513
Speaker 2: know what the next sentence would be. We'd be like,

799
00:38:36,794 --> 00:38:38,714
Speaker 2: what do you think Jesse would be thinking about for

800
00:38:38,754 --> 00:38:40,794
Speaker 2: her twin announcement? In the agent would go, oh, you know,

801
00:38:40,874 --> 00:38:42,554
Speaker 2: blah blah through out a figure, and then you go,

802
00:38:42,914 --> 00:38:45,194
Speaker 2: what about a body after baby? We were thinking like

803
00:38:45,474 --> 00:38:47,234
Speaker 2: eight weeks after birth, and the.

804
00:38:47,274 --> 00:38:48,714
Speaker 5: Agent would wrap the price.

805
00:38:48,514 --> 00:38:53,873
Speaker 7: Up's expensive, Holly, I everyone has their price, and then

806
00:38:53,914 --> 00:38:57,913
Speaker 7: you'd go bikini question mark and then go that'll cost

807
00:38:57,954 --> 00:38:58,553
Speaker 7: you another ten.

808
00:38:58,634 --> 00:39:03,274
Speaker 2: That's what used to it, Jesse. Other celebrities being public

809
00:39:03,274 --> 00:39:05,674
Speaker 2: with their private business. Tell me give me a Beckham update.

810
00:39:05,954 --> 00:39:06,154
Speaker 1: Yeap.

811
00:39:06,314 --> 00:39:08,114
Speaker 4: So the first thing I thought when I saw this

812
00:39:08,274 --> 00:39:12,074
Speaker 4: story was, oh my god, the emotional weight of being

813
00:39:12,674 --> 00:39:16,954
Speaker 4: a daughter, right, and this is Harper Beckham, the youngest Beckham,

814
00:39:17,354 --> 00:39:20,393
Speaker 4: but notably the eldest daughter because she's the only daughter.

815
00:39:20,794 --> 00:39:23,834
Speaker 4: She is fourteen years old. And she posted to Instagram

816
00:39:23,834 --> 00:39:27,074
Speaker 4: over the weekend in what appears to be her first

817
00:39:27,114 --> 00:39:32,314
Speaker 4: sort of acknowledgment of the rift estrangement Beckham situation, which

818
00:39:32,434 --> 00:39:34,874
Speaker 4: was she posted a picture of her three brothers, Brooklyn,

819
00:39:34,954 --> 00:39:37,954
Speaker 4: Cruz and Romeo just had the words I love you

820
00:39:38,074 --> 00:39:41,393
Speaker 4: all so much. Words can't describe it, and Romeo and

821
00:39:41,474 --> 00:39:43,314
Speaker 4: Victoria Beckham reposted it.

822
00:39:43,434 --> 00:39:46,634
Speaker 1: She got reshared published. She has a private account by

823
00:39:47,154 --> 00:39:51,033
Speaker 1: Victoria and by Romeo, and that in itself is kind

824
00:39:51,074 --> 00:39:53,994
Speaker 1: of makes me feel uncomfortable because she chose I mean,

825
00:39:54,034 --> 00:39:55,994
Speaker 1: I'm sure they sought her permission for it, but she

826
00:39:56,154 --> 00:40:00,194
Speaker 1: did post it to a much more limited group of people, and.

827
00:40:00,194 --> 00:40:02,873
Speaker 4: It becomes and then when you do that, it becomes performance,

828
00:40:02,914 --> 00:40:07,873
Speaker 4: which just feels like such a less intimate Do you

829
00:40:07,914 --> 00:40:09,514
Speaker 4: just look at some of this stuff and you're like, oh,

830
00:40:09,554 --> 00:40:11,234
Speaker 4: we having conversations behind the scenes.

831
00:40:11,674 --> 00:40:13,674
Speaker 1: It feels like Victoria's trying to prove a point by

832
00:40:13,674 --> 00:40:17,074
Speaker 1: sharing it publicly, which Harper wasn't making by not sharing it.

833
00:40:17,594 --> 00:40:21,354
Speaker 4: Now, this is in stark contrast to Cruz, who a

834
00:40:21,354 --> 00:40:24,714
Speaker 4: few months ago reposted a Daily Mail article that alleged

835
00:40:24,754 --> 00:40:29,074
Speaker 4: that Victoria and David had unfollowed Brooklyn, and he basically went, no,

836
00:40:29,834 --> 00:40:33,074
Speaker 4: they didn't, Brooklyn unfollowed them, and blah blah blah, like

837
00:40:33,114 --> 00:40:35,674
Speaker 4: he's been waiting into it a little bit. And I

838
00:40:35,674 --> 00:40:38,714
Speaker 4: remember thinking when I saw that a daughter could never

839
00:40:39,034 --> 00:40:42,914
Speaker 4: because the role of a daughter in the family dynamic

840
00:40:43,034 --> 00:40:48,274
Speaker 4: is often to consider and weigh up everyone's emotional needs

841
00:40:48,434 --> 00:40:51,234
Speaker 4: and try and keep the equilibrium of the family. And

842
00:40:51,274 --> 00:40:53,634
Speaker 4: that's why I felt when I saw Harper do that

843
00:40:53,674 --> 00:40:59,034
Speaker 4: at fourteen, I just went that show's probably emotional intelligence,

844
00:40:59,114 --> 00:41:01,314
Speaker 4: but also like her own grief about the whole.

845
00:41:01,154 --> 00:41:03,514
Speaker 2: Thing that's been of emotional intelligence. And this isn't directed

846
00:41:03,554 --> 00:41:06,114
Speaker 2: at Hart because she's literally fourteen, but Amelia.

847
00:41:06,274 --> 00:41:06,954
Speaker 1: Isn't it weird?

848
00:41:07,194 --> 00:41:10,393
Speaker 2: The Beckham because actually Cruz Beckham also posted last week

849
00:41:10,394 --> 00:41:12,794
Speaker 2: and he posted some random pictures from his life. He's

850
00:41:12,834 --> 00:41:14,513
Speaker 2: got a record to promote, he's in a band now,

851
00:41:14,914 --> 00:41:18,234
Speaker 2: and there were pictures of Brooklyn in that like throwback old.

852
00:41:18,034 --> 00:41:20,433
Speaker 5: Pictures of that isn't the lesson was supposed to get

853
00:41:20,434 --> 00:41:20,674
Speaker 5: from this.

854
00:41:20,714 --> 00:41:22,314
Speaker 2: All this a merely that if they all love each

855
00:41:22,314 --> 00:41:24,634
Speaker 2: other so much, maybe keeping off the social.

856
00:41:24,354 --> 00:41:28,634
Speaker 1: For me feel like those children have grown up learning

857
00:41:29,234 --> 00:41:33,034
Speaker 1: that the most important way to express love, or certainly

858
00:41:33,074 --> 00:41:36,674
Speaker 1: an important way to express love is on Instagram. Because

859
00:41:36,954 --> 00:41:39,873
Speaker 1: David and Victoria are constantly telling us how much they

860
00:41:39,914 --> 00:41:43,674
Speaker 1: love their children on Instagram, and I don't understand why

861
00:41:43,714 --> 00:41:46,554
Speaker 1: I need to know, Like that's great for them, but

862
00:41:46,674 --> 00:41:49,594
Speaker 1: why why do they tell us this? And isn't that

863
00:41:49,714 --> 00:41:52,794
Speaker 1: kind of Unbritish to be constantly emotioning in that way?

864
00:41:52,914 --> 00:41:54,754
Speaker 2: I don't think it is anymore, because I think social

865
00:41:54,794 --> 00:41:57,514
Speaker 2: media's changed it, because I'm always kind of surprised, Like

866
00:41:57,674 --> 00:42:00,714
Speaker 2: not surprised for Victorian and David, it's their brand, but

867
00:42:00,834 --> 00:42:03,914
Speaker 2: the kids being so open all the time on social

868
00:42:04,434 --> 00:42:05,674
Speaker 2: seems a little bit strange.

869
00:42:05,674 --> 00:42:08,114
Speaker 5: But then I was my niece who's not.

870
00:42:08,434 --> 00:42:11,674
Speaker 2: Obviously famous or whatever, but she just turned twenty one

871
00:42:11,834 --> 00:42:13,634
Speaker 2: and on the day that she did, her feet is

872
00:42:13,674 --> 00:42:17,474
Speaker 2: just full of all her friends posting pictures of them together,

873
00:42:17,874 --> 00:42:20,434
Speaker 2: how much they love her, go queen. All that stuff

874
00:42:20,474 --> 00:42:23,754
Speaker 2: that is just very very normal now for a generation.

875
00:42:24,474 --> 00:42:28,754
Speaker 2: Is that at any major moment that you do post

876
00:42:28,794 --> 00:42:31,074
Speaker 2: about it, and you're expected to post about it for

877
00:42:31,074 --> 00:42:33,114
Speaker 2: about the people you love, and you're expected to tag

878
00:42:33,114 --> 00:42:34,674
Speaker 2: them and they're expected to reshare it.

879
00:42:34,714 --> 00:42:35,873
Speaker 5: And I just wonder.

880
00:42:35,594 --> 00:42:40,074
Speaker 2: If actually celebrities are just reflecting what the young people

881
00:42:40,114 --> 00:42:42,514
Speaker 2: makes me sound a hundred but what is very ordinary?

882
00:42:42,554 --> 00:42:44,354
Speaker 2: I always remember and Vernham said to us that if

883
00:42:44,354 --> 00:42:46,594
Speaker 2: people didn't post about her on her birthday, should be

884
00:42:46,634 --> 00:42:47,834
Speaker 2: a bit upset, for example.

885
00:42:47,874 --> 00:42:52,234
Speaker 4: The problem with that, though, is the more you post,

886
00:42:52,434 --> 00:42:55,714
Speaker 4: like Claire and I are constantly linking to each other

887
00:42:55,834 --> 00:42:58,674
Speaker 4: going or there's been a breakup, like a this is

888
00:42:58,714 --> 00:43:01,154
Speaker 4: like people in our lives or like you know, minor

889
00:43:01,274 --> 00:43:06,034
Speaker 4: celebrities or whatever where you can tell because the declarations

890
00:43:06,034 --> 00:43:09,274
Speaker 4: of love have stopped, or because the cadence of posting

891
00:43:09,314 --> 00:43:13,034
Speaker 4: has changed or whatever. Like when you let people in

892
00:43:13,074 --> 00:43:15,234
Speaker 4: for a little glimpse, you then give them a license

893
00:43:15,274 --> 00:43:17,754
Speaker 4: to kind of speculate on the ins and outs of

894
00:43:17,794 --> 00:43:18,314
Speaker 4: your life.

895
00:43:18,434 --> 00:43:21,473
Speaker 1: That's exactly it, and that's where we started this conversation.

896
00:43:21,714 --> 00:43:24,234
Speaker 1: And I think that if you're telling people about the

897
00:43:24,234 --> 00:43:27,154
Speaker 1: good times, they are going to expect that you can

898
00:43:27,274 --> 00:43:30,034
Speaker 1: communicate with them through the bad times too. And I

899
00:43:30,074 --> 00:43:34,714
Speaker 1: think that we really see that tension around celebrity divorce announcements,

900
00:43:35,154 --> 00:43:37,953
Speaker 1: and I was thinking about, how do you remember when

901
00:43:37,994 --> 00:43:41,114
Speaker 1: Sasha Baron Cohen and isle of Fisher announced their divorce

902
00:43:41,874 --> 00:43:46,354
Speaker 1: or their separation. It was them wearing tennis clothes about

903
00:43:46,354 --> 00:43:49,274
Speaker 1: a match, and it was the match being over, and

904
00:43:49,314 --> 00:43:52,393
Speaker 1: it was this extended tennis metaphor, and look, I know

905
00:43:52,594 --> 00:43:55,473
Speaker 1: you love tennis, but that was too much. It just

906
00:43:55,514 --> 00:43:57,554
Speaker 1: felt too contrived.

907
00:43:56,994 --> 00:44:00,473
Speaker 4: All like inauthentic. And then on the other hand, there

908
00:44:00,514 --> 00:44:03,474
Speaker 4: was a story recently. It was a local, kind of

909
00:44:03,514 --> 00:44:07,634
Speaker 4: Australian celebrity story. Couple had broken up, lots of followers

910
00:44:07,674 --> 00:44:10,834
Speaker 4: between them, questions about what had happened that a lot

911
00:44:10,874 --> 00:44:14,914
Speaker 4: of people had But then it got into child support

912
00:44:15,154 --> 00:44:17,834
Speaker 4: and what time this person showed up for a visit,

913
00:44:18,194 --> 00:44:21,234
Speaker 4: and it became this back and forth between two people

914
00:44:21,274 --> 00:44:25,674
Speaker 4: that are clearly really hurt and have a complicated personal relationship.

915
00:44:25,674 --> 00:44:27,594
Speaker 4: I was thinking it would take such restraint not to

916
00:44:27,674 --> 00:44:31,274
Speaker 4: say anything, especially if your partner has an enormous public

917
00:44:31,314 --> 00:44:34,234
Speaker 4: platform that they're maybe profiting off or whatever, and you

918
00:44:34,274 --> 00:44:35,994
Speaker 4: know you could do real damage.

919
00:44:35,674 --> 00:44:38,954
Speaker 2: Or presenting a version of themselves that you deeply feel

920
00:44:38,994 --> 00:44:42,794
Speaker 2: is untrue. Like that, Again, this is not just celebrity business,

921
00:44:42,834 --> 00:44:45,314
Speaker 2: but if you're sort of seeing an ex partner or

922
00:44:45,354 --> 00:44:48,354
Speaker 2: whatever professing to be the world's most wonderful dad, or

923
00:44:48,754 --> 00:44:51,354
Speaker 2: social media when you're kind of like, well, you haven't

924
00:44:51,354 --> 00:44:54,873
Speaker 2: seen the kids, for like, the temptation is huge. We

925
00:44:54,994 --> 00:44:57,474
Speaker 2: literally have this microphone where we can put people on blast,

926
00:44:57,474 --> 00:45:00,034
Speaker 2: we can put our feelings on blast, and it takes

927
00:45:00,074 --> 00:45:03,154
Speaker 2: a lot of restraint and maturity. I guess to not

928
00:45:04,034 --> 00:45:06,674
Speaker 2: did you catch Nicole Kidman's Valentine's Day post? Just on

929
00:45:06,754 --> 00:45:08,474
Speaker 2: this What did she posted?

930
00:45:08,634 --> 00:45:11,034
Speaker 3: Because normally she would post about Keith, Well.

931
00:45:10,874 --> 00:45:13,834
Speaker 2: They are because this is what's to your point, Amelia,

932
00:45:13,914 --> 00:45:17,553
Speaker 2: about can you redraw the boundaries once you've kind of gone, oh, actually,

933
00:45:17,594 --> 00:45:20,034
Speaker 2: I don't want to tell everybody about this messiness. She

934
00:45:20,194 --> 00:45:23,433
Speaker 2: and Keith were always very public with their declarations of love,

935
00:45:23,474 --> 00:45:26,674
Speaker 2: weren't they. And on Saturday she just posted a rather

936
00:45:26,714 --> 00:45:29,194
Speaker 2: sexy picture of herself in a man's shirt, which is

937
00:45:29,194 --> 00:45:33,234
Speaker 2: a look Nick rocks, and it just said Happy Gallantines

938
00:45:33,394 --> 00:45:34,034
Speaker 2: with a love.

939
00:45:33,954 --> 00:45:36,714
Speaker 1: Heart and I was also perfectly shot and lit. We

940
00:45:36,754 --> 00:45:37,794
Speaker 1: need to pay.

941
00:45:38,034 --> 00:45:39,513
Speaker 3: Very lovely day.

942
00:45:39,874 --> 00:45:41,914
Speaker 5: She was like, I cannot let this go on. Marked

943
00:45:44,034 --> 00:45:45,114
Speaker 5: that's all we've got time for.

944
00:45:45,194 --> 00:45:47,674
Speaker 2: On Today's show, out loud is Thank you for being

945
00:45:47,714 --> 00:45:49,993
Speaker 2: here with us, and thank you to our amazing team

946
00:45:50,034 --> 00:45:51,514
Speaker 2: for helping us put this show together.

947
00:45:51,994 --> 00:45:54,354
Speaker 3: Bye bye.

948
00:45:58,434 --> 00:46:01,433
Speaker 4: Ma Mayer acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on

949
00:46:01,474 --> 00:46:03,314
Speaker 4: which we have recorded this podcast.