WEBVTT - Has The Long Island Serial Killer Finally Been Caught? 0:00:11.582 --> 0:00:16.182 You're listening to a Mother Mia podcast. Mama Mea acknowledges 0:00:16.222 --> 0:00:19.702 the traditional owners of land and orders. This podcast was 0:00:19.742 --> 0:00:27.062 recorded on It's the early hours of May one, twenty ten, 0:00:27.662 --> 0:00:29.782 and Shannon Gilbert calls nine to one to one from 0:00:29.782 --> 0:00:33.062 a house in Long Island, New York. She's there working 0:00:33.062 --> 0:00:35.782 as an escort with a client she met on Craigslist. 0:00:36.222 --> 0:00:38.942 There's somebody after me, She repeatedly tells. 0:00:38.742 --> 0:00:44.062 The operator where are you? There's somebody answering, Okay, where 0:00:44.102 --> 0:00:51.262 are you? So somebody answer where are you? 0:00:51.342 --> 0:00:55.902 Ma'am? I thought you're The entire call lasts twenty two minutes. 0:00:56.622 --> 0:01:00.022 She sounds calm and then confused. You can hear her 0:01:00.062 --> 0:01:02.942 talking to two men in the background. She keeps telling 0:01:02.982 --> 0:01:07.262 someone to stop please. Then she starts running down the street. 0:01:07.822 --> 0:01:21.782 You can hear her screaming and breathing heavily. She asks 0:01:21.782 --> 0:01:25.502 neighbors for help, knocking on their doors. Two different homes 0:01:25.542 --> 0:01:29.822 called police, but when they finally dispatch officers to the area, 0:01:30.062 --> 0:01:35.942 Shannon is nowhere to be found. Months pass and despite 0:01:35.982 --> 0:01:39.262 extensive searches by local law enforcement, there is no sign 0:01:39.302 --> 0:01:43.062 of the twenty three year old. They do, however, stumble 0:01:43.102 --> 0:01:47.982 on another grisly discovery, the bodies of four young women, 0:01:48.662 --> 0:01:51.982 all of them, like Shannon, are escorts who met their 0:01:51.982 --> 0:02:09.182 clients online. The similarities between the women are uncanny, all 0:02:09.222 --> 0:02:12.182 of them petite, all of them in their twenties, all 0:02:12.222 --> 0:02:15.422 of them working as sex workers, posting ads on Craigslist. 0:02:16.182 --> 0:02:21.142 Immediately police know their hunting a serial killer. The following year, 0:02:21.342 --> 0:02:24.182 six more sets of remains are found in the same area, 0:02:24.382 --> 0:02:29.062 bringing the body count to ten. The hunt for answers intensifies. 0:02:30.302 --> 0:02:33.422 This is a case with many twists and turns, all 0:02:33.462 --> 0:02:36.822 culminating in a sensational arrest in July twenty twenty three, 0:02:37.182 --> 0:02:40.982 more than a decade after the bodies were found, rex 0:02:41.062 --> 0:02:43.982 Hueman has been charged with multiple counts of murder and 0:02:44.102 --> 0:02:47.222 is currently awaiting trial. It was supposed to start in 0:02:47.262 --> 0:02:52.102 September this year that has been delayed. Alexis Linkletter is 0:02:52.142 --> 0:02:55.502 a true crime producer and investigative journalist from Long Island 0:02:55.542 --> 0:02:57.982 who has been reporting at length on the case and 0:02:58.022 --> 0:03:02.502 continues to provide updates via her podcast Unraveled. Alexis joins 0:03:02.542 --> 0:03:15.302 us now Shannon Gilbert. During her nine to one one call, 0:03:15.382 --> 0:03:17.582 two men could be heard in the background while she 0:03:17.622 --> 0:03:20.142 was telling the operator she was unsafe and someone was 0:03:20.182 --> 0:03:24.102 after her. What do we now know about what was 0:03:24.142 --> 0:03:25.982 happening on that May first morning? 0:03:27.062 --> 0:03:27.262 Right? 0:03:27.382 --> 0:03:30.582 So, on that May first morning, we know that Shannon 0:03:30.622 --> 0:03:34.822 Gilbert was called to the home of Joseph Brewer and 0:03:35.142 --> 0:03:38.222 she was brought there by her driver, Michael Pack And 0:03:38.342 --> 0:03:41.942 at that point, when Shannon had called nine one one, 0:03:42.542 --> 0:03:45.902 Joseph Brewer was trying to get her out of his 0:03:46.022 --> 0:03:51.462 house because she was panicking about something. And you can 0:03:51.462 --> 0:03:53.502 hear them on the nine one one call in the background, 0:03:53.582 --> 0:03:57.222 sort of seeming to talk to each other. It's kind 0:03:57.262 --> 0:04:00.742 of unintelligible, but it sounds like they're communicating about what 0:04:00.862 --> 0:04:01.182 to do. 0:04:02.222 --> 0:04:08.022 Her disappearance prompted a search of the nearby area. What 0:04:08.102 --> 0:04:09.862 did that search junk cover? And it was something that 0:04:09.902 --> 0:04:11.542 went on for several months. 0:04:12.542 --> 0:04:16.342 Yeah, So at first the search for her uncovered nothing. 0:04:17.542 --> 0:04:22.022 It wasn't until December of that year that a police 0:04:22.022 --> 0:04:27.142 officer conducting a search with a search dog found some 0:04:27.262 --> 0:04:31.742 skeletal remains, and everyone assumed that those remains would be 0:04:31.822 --> 0:04:34.262 that of the missing Shannon Gilbert, the woman they had 0:04:34.262 --> 0:04:36.702 been looking for, But that wasn't the case. It turns 0:04:36.702 --> 0:04:40.262 out these remains actually belonged to a missing young woman 0:04:40.342 --> 0:04:45.102 named Melissa Bartholemy. And after those remains were found, the 0:04:45.142 --> 0:04:49.462 remains of three other women were also found left there, 0:04:49.622 --> 0:04:53.942 nearly identically, and they were left about five hundred feet 0:04:54.102 --> 0:04:57.422 from each other, along the stretch of highway that was 0:04:57.462 --> 0:05:00.262 in very close proximity to the neighborhood where Shannon Gilbert 0:05:00.302 --> 0:05:00.862 vanished from. 0:05:01.782 --> 0:05:02.502 Can you tell us. 0:05:02.462 --> 0:05:05.262 A little bit about the women. Let's start with Melissa 0:05:05.342 --> 0:05:08.462 because her family in particular had been receiving kind of 0:05:08.502 --> 0:05:10.462 taunting phone calls, hadn't they. 0:05:11.302 --> 0:05:16.302 Yes, So shortly after Melissa's disappearance, her sister Amanda received 0:05:16.702 --> 0:05:20.862 calls from an unknown person. This person used a lot 0:05:20.902 --> 0:05:24.582 of derogatory language. This person had explicitly said things like, 0:05:24.902 --> 0:05:28.502 I'm watching your sister rot your sister is dead, just 0:05:28.542 --> 0:05:30.942 things like that. The exact verbiage we don't know, but 0:05:31.142 --> 0:05:33.862 that was the types of things this person was saying. 0:05:33.862 --> 0:05:35.782 And at that point, Melissa had been missing, so these 0:05:35.782 --> 0:05:37.862 were obviously very terrifying calls to receive. 0:05:38.942 --> 0:05:42.942 Who was Melissa and the other women amba, Megan and Mulraine. 0:05:43.222 --> 0:05:45.182 They all had a lot of similarities, didn't they. 0:05:46.022 --> 0:05:47.902 Yes, So they were all young women. 0:05:47.942 --> 0:05:50.422 They were all batite, and they were all advertising their 0:05:50.462 --> 0:05:54.182 services on Craigslist because they were working as sex workers. 0:05:54.742 --> 0:05:57.782 But that's not what any of them wanted to be doing. 0:05:58.302 --> 0:06:02.342 Melissa Bartholemy was last seen in New York City. She 0:06:03.222 --> 0:06:05.582 had goals of opening her own hair salon. She had 0:06:05.582 --> 0:06:07.342 a lot of friends, a lot of people who loved her. 0:06:07.742 --> 0:06:11.342 And Megan Waterman was from Maine and she was essentially 0:06:11.382 --> 0:06:16.902 trafficked across state lines by her boyfriend slash pimp to 0:06:16.942 --> 0:06:19.742 conduct sex work on Long Island and in the city, 0:06:19.782 --> 0:06:21.862 and that's what she was doing when she was last seen. 0:06:22.742 --> 0:06:27.262 And then Amberlin Costello she was actually the only one 0:06:27.342 --> 0:06:30.942 living on Long Island when she disappeared, and she was 0:06:31.062 --> 0:06:35.142 last seen getting into a truck in front of her house, 0:06:35.862 --> 0:06:38.782 presumably with a client, and then she was never seen again. 0:06:39.422 --> 0:06:43.182 And then Maureen brainer Barnes, same thing. She was a 0:06:43.222 --> 0:06:48.382 young sex worker who vanished after meeting a client. 0:06:48.902 --> 0:06:51.262 What kind of time frame are we talking about when 0:06:51.262 --> 0:06:52.262 these women went to me seen? 0:06:53.102 --> 0:06:56.062 So Maureene brainer Barnes vanished in two thousand and seven, 0:06:56.622 --> 0:07:00.702 and the others disappeared between that and two thousand and nine, 0:07:01.222 --> 0:07:03.902 with the final two disappearing within just a few months 0:07:03.902 --> 0:07:07.542 of each other in two thousand and nine. 0:07:06.582 --> 0:07:09.662 And when police found their bodies, were I able to 0:07:09.702 --> 0:07:12.302 determine any think about how they died. 0:07:13.622 --> 0:07:18.262 Presumably yes, but that information wasn't released right away, and 0:07:18.382 --> 0:07:21.582 because it was skeletal remains, very little. 0:07:21.382 --> 0:07:23.262 Was released to the public at that time. 0:07:23.382 --> 0:07:25.462 What the public was made aware of is that these 0:07:25.502 --> 0:07:29.142 women were petite, They were wrapped in burlap, and that's 0:07:29.262 --> 0:07:32.062 kind of all we learned, and that's all we knew 0:07:32.062 --> 0:07:32.982 for a really long time. 0:07:34.062 --> 0:07:38.462 A discovery like this is obviously shocking. Did police immediately 0:07:38.502 --> 0:07:40.902 know that they were hunting a serial killer? Because I 0:07:40.902 --> 0:07:44.822 can imagine that starts some pretty serious task forces and 0:07:44.942 --> 0:07:46.542 escalations that kind of thing. 0:07:48.142 --> 0:07:51.382 So at first, when the gil Go fur and that's 0:07:51.382 --> 0:07:54.422 what those first victims were referred to as the gil 0:07:54.462 --> 0:07:58.062 Go four, the assumption right away was that somebody had 0:07:58.142 --> 0:08:01.982 killed these four victims. Where there was a diversion in 0:08:02.102 --> 0:08:06.022 terms of the theories that occurred in April of the 0:08:06.062 --> 0:08:08.942 following year, which is when several more sets of human 0:08:08.982 --> 0:08:13.062 remains were found along Ocean Park. But these victims, the 0:08:13.102 --> 0:08:17.662 circumstances were much different. There were victims that were dismembered. 0:08:18.342 --> 0:08:22.622 There were victims that varied in terms of the race 0:08:23.142 --> 0:08:26.062 of the victim. The victimology differed, and we had a 0:08:26.102 --> 0:08:30.342 victim who was biologically male, dressed in women's clothing, who 0:08:30.422 --> 0:08:33.622 was killed as a result of blunt force trauma. So 0:08:33.982 --> 0:08:37.502 the mos started to become very varied. And that's when 0:08:38.382 --> 0:08:40.662 the big debate about whether we were dealing with one 0:08:40.742 --> 0:08:42.662 or two killers really arose. 0:08:42.862 --> 0:08:45.022 Because that was six more PayPal, wasn't it. There was 0:08:45.062 --> 0:08:47.062 even a toddler among those remains. 0:08:47.902 --> 0:08:51.662 Yes, So that's when the controversy really began about whether 0:08:51.742 --> 0:08:54.382 one person was responsible for all of these people. But 0:08:54.462 --> 0:08:57.582 as far as the first four, everyone believed right away 0:08:57.662 --> 0:08:59.782 that one person had done all of those. 0:09:00.782 --> 0:09:04.102 And then Shannon's reminds were eventually found as well. 0:09:05.262 --> 0:09:09.302 Yes, eighteen months after she disappeared, Shannon was found, and interestingly, 0:09:09.382 --> 0:09:13.182 her remains were found very close to where she disappeared from, 0:09:13.222 --> 0:09:17.462 which created a lot of questions about how thorough the 0:09:17.502 --> 0:09:20.382 search had been for her to begin with, how had 0:09:20.422 --> 0:09:23.222 they not discovered her sooner if she was essentially right 0:09:23.222 --> 0:09:24.862 down the street from where she vanished from. 0:09:25.582 --> 0:09:30.262 And interestingly, with Shannon, Palais actually said that I didn't 0:09:30.382 --> 0:09:33.182 think she'd been murdered, right. 0:09:33.342 --> 0:09:37.782 That also creates a lot of confusion for people, especially 0:09:37.822 --> 0:09:41.022 given her similarities to these other victims that were found 0:09:41.182 --> 0:09:43.582 right down the street. It's hard to believe for a 0:09:43.582 --> 0:09:46.782 lot of people that she's not a murder victim. But 0:09:47.342 --> 0:09:50.542 the Suffocunty Police Department essentially says, and they stand by 0:09:50.582 --> 0:09:52.782 the fact that they believe Sheannon Gilbert died as a 0:09:52.822 --> 0:09:57.422 result of misadventure, which is essentially sort of an unknown cause. 0:09:57.502 --> 0:10:00.182 They believe she has succumbed to the elements, whether that's 0:10:00.942 --> 0:10:05.902 suffering some sort of psychotic drug induced episode that caused 0:10:05.902 --> 0:10:10.102 her to crawl into this really thick brush and drowned. 0:10:10.182 --> 0:10:13.222 You know, they've been sort of unclear because again, eighteen 0:10:13.262 --> 0:10:17.662 months later, she was found in a state of just 0:10:17.782 --> 0:10:21.782 skeletal remains. It's hard to know what exactly caused her death. 0:10:22.702 --> 0:10:26.742 So this is ten bodies, eleven including Shannon. For those 0:10:26.822 --> 0:10:28.862 who haven't been to Long Island, I haven't. Is it 0:10:28.902 --> 0:10:31.542 quite a small area geographically to be finding all of 0:10:31.582 --> 0:10:32.302 these remains. 0:10:32.982 --> 0:10:36.662 So Long Island itself, to give context, is thirty miles 0:10:36.702 --> 0:10:41.502 wide by one hundred miles long. This particular area, if 0:10:41.582 --> 0:10:44.582 you look at a map, it's a long stretch of land, 0:10:45.262 --> 0:10:47.582 but when you're there, it feels extremely small. 0:10:48.102 --> 0:10:48.982 It's really remote. 0:10:48.982 --> 0:10:52.622 There are no other houses there, and the strip of 0:10:52.702 --> 0:10:56.782 land between the road it's on the water, so it's 0:10:56.822 --> 0:11:00.262 on a highway. The strip of land between where the 0:11:00.342 --> 0:11:04.142 road is and the water is very small. So it's 0:11:04.222 --> 0:11:07.182 just a very specific place. You know, it doesn't seem 0:11:07.222 --> 0:11:10.302 like a very obvious place for someone to hide human remains. 0:11:11.102 --> 0:11:13.662 So the idea that there was this massive concentration of 0:11:13.782 --> 0:11:16.782 victims in this one area led a lot of people 0:11:16.862 --> 0:11:19.462 to suspect that, yes, we're dealing with one serial killer. 0:11:19.702 --> 0:11:24.462 But again, because the victims that were found later varied 0:11:24.662 --> 0:11:27.182 so much and differed so much from the first four, 0:11:27.702 --> 0:11:29.822 there was still a big question mark over whether or 0:11:29.902 --> 0:11:32.822 not there's one killer or multiple killers, especially because of 0:11:33.142 --> 0:11:37.142 victims like the toddler, where it's such a departure from 0:11:37.342 --> 0:11:39.582 what we're dealing with. As far as young women in 0:11:39.622 --> 0:11:42.462 their twenties who are active in sex work, it really 0:11:42.782 --> 0:11:43.822 caused a lot of confusion. 0:11:45.142 --> 0:11:48.782 I want to ask you personally how it felt to 0:11:48.822 --> 0:11:51.422 have this news breaking, because you're from Long Island, don't. 0:11:51.262 --> 0:11:55.542 You, Yeah, so I grew up going to the beaches 0:11:55.702 --> 0:12:00.742 where this all occurred. It's devastating because most of Long Island, 0:12:00.742 --> 0:12:03.742 it's very affluent. In most parts, you think of it 0:12:03.782 --> 0:12:07.182 as a very safe place. It's a place where people 0:12:07.702 --> 0:12:11.102 from the city have, you know, expensive summer homes. You 0:12:11.142 --> 0:12:14.942 would just never think that something so insidious could be happening, 0:12:15.062 --> 0:12:18.782 and be happening for so long without people realizing it. 0:12:19.782 --> 0:12:22.902 I want to focus on the Gilg four as they 0:12:23.062 --> 0:12:26.822 were known. Were there any witnesses or people in the 0:12:26.862 --> 0:12:29.382 women's orbits that were able to give police any decent 0:12:29.462 --> 0:12:30.862 clues in those early days? 0:12:32.102 --> 0:12:35.102 It turns out yes, although that's not something we learned 0:12:35.102 --> 0:12:36.982 about until July. 0:12:36.782 --> 0:12:37.862 Of twenty twenty three. 0:12:37.942 --> 0:12:42.782 Wow. But it turns out that Amberlin Costello, who was 0:12:42.782 --> 0:12:46.262 the last victim to disappear in the summer of two 0:12:46.302 --> 0:12:49.782 thousand and nine, we found out a little bit about 0:12:49.902 --> 0:12:53.422 her last two days before she vanished, And what occurred 0:12:53.622 --> 0:12:56.582 was is that she was advertising her sex work services 0:12:56.622 --> 0:13:02.062 on Craigslist and she was engaging with the client through text, 0:13:03.022 --> 0:13:07.782 and her and her roommates decided that they wanted money, 0:13:07.782 --> 0:13:10.382 but she didn't want to have sex with this calent, 0:13:11.182 --> 0:13:12.462 so they were going to. 0:13:14.062 --> 0:13:15.502 Do sort of a ruse. 0:13:15.422 --> 0:13:19.582 And basically have the client come over and then Amber's 0:13:19.662 --> 0:13:23.582 roommate would interrupt and act like her angry boyfriend. 0:13:24.502 --> 0:13:27.302 Then the client would be chased off. 0:13:27.862 --> 0:13:30.262 He would have already given the money and she wouldn't 0:13:30.262 --> 0:13:33.542 have had to go through with this act. So this happens, 0:13:33.662 --> 0:13:37.022 and the roommate actually does get into a physical altercation 0:13:37.822 --> 0:13:40.662 with this client, who he describes as someone you know 0:13:40.662 --> 0:13:43.382 who's six ' five hulking. He describes him as looking 0:13:43.462 --> 0:13:46.862 like an ogre, and another key detail he includes is 0:13:46.902 --> 0:13:51.302 that this man was driving a green Chevy Avalanche, an early. 0:13:51.262 --> 0:13:52.422 Two thousand and two model. 0:13:53.222 --> 0:13:58.422 So we've learned that the next day after this ruse 0:13:58.422 --> 0:14:01.622 occurred with this client, the client reached back out to 0:14:01.662 --> 0:14:05.742 Amber and said something to the effect of that wasn't nice. 0:14:05.782 --> 0:14:08.502 Do I get credit for next time, suggesting that he'd 0:14:08.502 --> 0:14:13.062 still like to see her and make another appointment. And 0:14:13.902 --> 0:14:16.902 based on Amber's cell phone records, we've now learned that 0:14:17.302 --> 0:14:19.502 she did agree to meet this client on the very 0:14:19.622 --> 0:14:25.462 day that she disappeared, and neighbors later said they saw 0:14:25.622 --> 0:14:28.902 Amber walking in the direction of a green Chevy Avalanche. So, 0:14:29.702 --> 0:14:32.742 putting the pieces together, she's meeting up with this man 0:14:32.862 --> 0:14:36.982 who was disgruntled the day before and that's the last 0:14:36.982 --> 0:14:40.782 time she's ever seen and this tip about the avalanche 0:14:41.262 --> 0:14:46.022 was provided. So it's strange that this is the clue 0:14:46.062 --> 0:14:48.662 that would eventually lead the Suffolk County Police Department to 0:14:48.702 --> 0:14:51.502 a suspect, because they had this clue all along, So 0:14:51.582 --> 0:14:53.222 why wasn't it followed up on? 0:14:53.502 --> 0:14:54.942 Then We'll never really know. 0:14:56.262 --> 0:14:59.782 Were there any suspects in those early days that the 0:14:59.822 --> 0:15:02.382 public knew about well that the police kind of shard 0:15:02.462 --> 0:15:03.222 details about. 0:15:04.422 --> 0:15:06.982 So as far as official suspects, the police were not 0:15:07.022 --> 0:15:11.582 transparent about that. But something that really hut a spotlight 0:15:11.622 --> 0:15:13.942 on this case was the fact that a lot of 0:15:13.982 --> 0:15:17.582 people suspected that the Suffolcunti Chief of Police had a 0:15:17.662 --> 0:15:21.302 hand in the Long Island serial killer case. So from 0:15:21.382 --> 0:15:23.582 a pop culture standpoint, as far as people who are 0:15:23.582 --> 0:15:26.222 familiar with this case, the police chief, his name is 0:15:26.302 --> 0:15:29.462 James Burke, is someone who comes up right away, someone 0:15:29.462 --> 0:15:32.342 who is front and center, and he has been accused 0:15:32.462 --> 0:15:35.302 of not only being the Long Island serial killer, but 0:15:36.182 --> 0:15:39.982 also just that he purposefully derailed and sabotage the case, 0:15:40.022 --> 0:15:43.182 which is why it remained unsolved for thirteen years. 0:15:44.142 --> 0:15:48.742 Well that in particular, James Burke, the investigation stooling is 0:15:48.742 --> 0:15:51.422 what you started to investigate and kind of dig a 0:15:51.422 --> 0:15:54.742 bit deeper into because you did have a personal connection there. 0:15:54.822 --> 0:15:57.622 Can you tell us about Chris and what he told you, 0:15:57.662 --> 0:15:58.462 what happened to him? 0:15:59.422 --> 0:15:59.742 Sure? 0:15:59.942 --> 0:16:02.662 So I went to high school with a guy named 0:16:02.742 --> 0:16:06.502 Christopher Lobe a column Chris and I was working in 0:16:06.542 --> 0:16:10.942 the true crime space in Los Angeles, moved away from 0:16:10.982 --> 0:16:15.662 Long Island, and around twenty thirteen I started hearing that 0:16:15.742 --> 0:16:19.502 he was in jail for something he had done involving 0:16:19.542 --> 0:16:23.022 the Suffolk County Police Chief. Now we were put in 0:16:23.142 --> 0:16:25.742 touch after many years of not being in contact, and 0:16:25.782 --> 0:16:27.782 that's when he told me the story of what happened. 0:16:28.382 --> 0:16:32.222 So what occurred was by this point Chris had become 0:16:32.222 --> 0:16:35.142 a heroin addict. Opioid addiction is something that a lot 0:16:35.182 --> 0:16:37.782 of people on Long Island struggle with, and all over 0:16:37.862 --> 0:16:41.582 the United States that's a big problem. So in the 0:16:41.622 --> 0:16:44.702 throes of addiction, in order to fuel his habit, he's 0:16:44.782 --> 0:16:49.742 resorted to robbing cars to find things to steal, and 0:16:49.942 --> 0:16:54.142 he was doing just that in December of twenty twelve, 0:16:55.182 --> 0:16:58.502 and it was then that he came upon a black 0:16:58.702 --> 0:17:02.862 suv and the doors were unlocked, and he opened the 0:17:02.862 --> 0:17:05.502 door and he stole a duffel bag out of this car. 0:17:05.662 --> 0:17:07.622 He doesn't look at it until he gets home, and 0:17:07.662 --> 0:17:11.302 when he opens the bag, he finds some procure things. 0:17:11.382 --> 0:17:17.662 He finds magazines, you know, for ammunition. He finds evidence bags, 0:17:17.742 --> 0:17:20.182 things that you might find in a police officer's duffle bag. 0:17:20.262 --> 0:17:25.542 But he also finds things like anal, beads, porn, sex toys, 0:17:25.862 --> 0:17:30.342 really bizarre items to also be with these police items. 0:17:30.982 --> 0:17:36.782 And this bag belonged to the Suffolk County Police Department's 0:17:36.822 --> 0:17:41.062 Chief of Police, James Burke. So after the theft of 0:17:41.062 --> 0:17:44.662 this bag, Chris was on probation for a different crime. 0:17:45.542 --> 0:17:48.142 And I don't know how, No one really knows how 0:17:48.382 --> 0:17:52.062 Burke knew it was Chris. But James Burke, the chief 0:17:52.102 --> 0:17:55.182 of police, and several other officers descended upon Chris's house 0:17:55.782 --> 0:17:59.102 and entered the home under the guise of it being 0:17:59.182 --> 0:18:03.342 you know, a routine sort of probationary search. And they 0:18:03.382 --> 0:18:05.582 recover the bag and they beat up Chris in front 0:18:05.622 --> 0:18:07.342 of his mother and they drag him down to the 0:18:07.342 --> 0:18:10.822 police station. And after that he's subsequently, you know, beaten 0:18:10.862 --> 0:18:16.702 and tortured and taunted by James Burke. And after that, 0:18:16.822 --> 0:18:19.742 James Burke threatens everybody who was there to never say 0:18:19.742 --> 0:18:23.262 a word, and there's basically a conspiracy to cover up 0:18:23.302 --> 0:18:27.502 what's just happened that ensues. After that, Chris is thrown 0:18:27.542 --> 0:18:30.862 in jail and silenced as a result. And it's at 0:18:30.862 --> 0:18:33.542 that point that he and I reconnect and I realize, WHOA, 0:18:33.622 --> 0:18:36.662 there's like really a story here. But I entered this 0:18:37.382 --> 0:18:40.502 story thinking of this as a story about political corruption. 0:18:41.102 --> 0:18:43.542 It wasn't until I started piecing together the timeline of 0:18:43.582 --> 0:18:46.862 everything that I realized how much influenced James Burke would 0:18:46.862 --> 0:18:48.742 have had over the Long Island serial killer case. 0:18:49.622 --> 0:18:51.982 Well, there was one particular day style that Chris gave 0:18:52.022 --> 0:18:56.422 you about a daba a day that quite clearly could 0:18:56.422 --> 0:18:59.822 incriminate him in terms of the Long Island Killer. Can 0:18:59.822 --> 0:19:00.542 you tell us about that? 0:19:01.342 --> 0:19:07.062 So Chris alleges that, and this is something he didn't 0:19:07.062 --> 0:19:12.222 tell anyone until he participated in my series Unraveled, And 0:19:12.262 --> 0:19:14.502 this was a story he told in twenty twenty when 0:19:14.502 --> 0:19:16.062 this event occurred in twenty twelve. 0:19:16.662 --> 0:19:18.942 But he said that there was a. 0:19:18.862 --> 0:19:23.702 Snuff film DVD in the back, and he said that 0:19:23.742 --> 0:19:27.262 the girl on the film looked like Megan Waterman, one 0:19:27.262 --> 0:19:28.582 of the Gilgo fur victims. 0:19:29.542 --> 0:19:32.782 Now, I don't believe that. 0:19:33.622 --> 0:19:37.982 But when you're doing journalism, when you're a journalist, you 0:19:38.022 --> 0:19:42.342 can't really insert your opinion. I was skeptical, but it 0:19:42.382 --> 0:19:45.902 is what Chris swore up and down happened. 0:19:45.942 --> 0:19:49.182 And was it just a blonde girl who looked like Megan? Maybe? 0:19:49.982 --> 0:19:53.662 Was it a fake snuff film where it's porn that's 0:19:53.662 --> 0:19:57.542 really rough and that's what's supposed to be depicted. There 0:19:57.582 --> 0:19:59.022 was a lot of nuance with what it could have 0:19:59.102 --> 0:20:03.662 been at that time. But everybody heard this and immediately 0:20:03.942 --> 0:20:07.702 the conspiracy theorists were abound with theories about James Brooke 0:20:07.782 --> 0:20:10.622 being the Long Island serial killer. And we uncovered so 0:20:10.702 --> 0:20:14.102 many truthful things from his past about what he did 0:20:14.142 --> 0:20:17.582 with sex workers. He had a really checkered history. He 0:20:17.702 --> 0:20:19.862 was violent with many sex workers. He was known to 0:20:19.942 --> 0:20:22.262 hire sex workers, he had a long term relationship with 0:20:22.302 --> 0:20:25.422 a sex worker, and in fact, he attended a sex 0:20:25.462 --> 0:20:28.262 party in Oak Beach, which is the same neighborhood where 0:20:28.262 --> 0:20:32.222 Shannon Gilbert disappeared from, and was engaged with a sex 0:20:32.262 --> 0:20:33.582 worker was violent with her. 0:20:34.102 --> 0:20:38.262 It just looked really bad as far as Yeah. 0:20:38.022 --> 0:20:40.862 Of course you wouldn't want the FBI or any other 0:20:41.582 --> 0:20:46.702 larger police agencies investigating this case and potentially uncovering your 0:20:46.782 --> 0:20:50.422 ties to these women and to this neighborhood where the 0:20:50.462 --> 0:20:51.142 women were found. 0:20:52.262 --> 0:20:56.582 So allegations of snuff film aside, there was plenty of 0:20:56.662 --> 0:20:58.982 solid evidence you were able to find about James and 0:20:59.022 --> 0:21:01.142 in fact he actually stood down, didn't he There was 0:21:01.222 --> 0:21:03.622 proof that he kind of fumbled the investigation. 0:21:04.702 --> 0:21:07.622 Yeah, so it's on records that the FBI tried to 0:21:07.622 --> 0:21:12.742 get involved and he blocked that. He was ultimately charged 0:21:12.822 --> 0:21:16.622 for what he did to Chris Loeb, and he didn't 0:21:16.622 --> 0:21:18.942 do it alone. He had accomplices and he was working 0:21:18.982 --> 0:21:21.662 with the District Attorney, which is I don't know what 0:21:21.662 --> 0:21:25.182 they call them in Australia, but it's just the highest 0:21:25.342 --> 0:21:30.422 prosecuting attorney for the state essentially for this county. And 0:21:31.702 --> 0:21:33.422 it turns out his name is Tom Spoda. He's in 0:21:33.502 --> 0:21:37.622 jail right now for his involvement in this and him 0:21:37.622 --> 0:21:40.822 and James Burke had had a relationship for forty years 0:21:40.982 --> 0:21:44.902 where they were essentially involved in corruption together, helping each 0:21:44.942 --> 0:21:48.262 other it was kind of a quid pro quo relationship 0:21:48.302 --> 0:21:52.222 where they were covering up a lot of stuff. So yeah, 0:21:52.342 --> 0:21:56.422 that's it really got serious when they were indicted for 0:21:56.542 --> 0:22:00.022 their roles in this and people really started to suspect, Okay, 0:22:00.902 --> 0:22:03.502 whether James Burke is a serial killer or not, he 0:22:03.582 --> 0:22:07.422 has a hand in why this case is not solved. 0:22:11.102 --> 0:22:14.782 You're listening to True Crime Conversations with me, Jimmy Bath. 0:22:15.262 --> 0:22:18.582 I'm speaking with true crime host and producer Alexis Link 0:22:18.622 --> 0:22:22.662 Litter Up. Next, I ask Alexis how the police managed 0:22:22.702 --> 0:22:26.062 to discover and catch who they suspected to be the 0:22:26.142 --> 0:22:36.182 Long Island serial killer. Well, let's skip forward to twenty 0:22:36.222 --> 0:22:40.342 twenty two, because a new task force was formed and 0:22:40.422 --> 0:22:43.982 within six weeks they had a new potential suspect. How 0:22:43.982 --> 0:22:46.102 did police find Rex Hueman? 0:22:47.302 --> 0:22:51.142 So we were all very excited when the new task 0:22:51.222 --> 0:22:55.902 force was assembled and there was this renewed effort to 0:22:55.942 --> 0:22:58.102 really regroup and do this right. 0:22:58.222 --> 0:22:58.942 From the start. 0:23:00.302 --> 0:23:03.022 And it's a little disheartening to realize that it only 0:23:03.062 --> 0:23:07.422 took them six weeks of true focus, of real valiant 0:23:07.422 --> 0:23:10.062 effort to do this, considering how many people had been 0:23:10.062 --> 0:23:15.582 suffered for how long without these answers. But essentially it 0:23:15.662 --> 0:23:20.262 was the tip provided by Amberlin Costello's roommate about the 0:23:20.342 --> 0:23:24.462 Chevy Avalanche that actually led the police to the door 0:23:24.822 --> 0:23:28.942 of their suspect. And that's frustrating because that means it 0:23:28.982 --> 0:23:30.782 wasn't like they found a new piece of evidence or 0:23:30.822 --> 0:23:33.222 a new tip or anything. It was a tip they 0:23:33.262 --> 0:23:35.342 had that had been ignored, that had been slipped through 0:23:35.382 --> 0:23:41.142 the cracks, that was lost in a time when James 0:23:41.142 --> 0:23:43.502 Burke would have kind of been in control of how 0:23:43.542 --> 0:23:46.262 to solve this case. So it sort of proved our 0:23:47.302 --> 0:23:50.782 hypothesis about why this case wasn't solved because they had 0:23:50.822 --> 0:23:54.142 this information all along. And it was ironic that it 0:23:54.382 --> 0:23:57.382 was a female investigator who uncovered it, which. 0:23:57.222 --> 0:23:59.942 I loved well, as you say, two decades it sat there, 0:24:00.062 --> 0:24:03.022 just sat there in front of them. There was also 0:24:03.502 --> 0:24:05.182 some DNA that they were able to link. 0:24:05.302 --> 0:24:09.262 Wasn't there, Yes, So we didn't know this until there 0:24:09.302 --> 0:24:09.862 was an arrest. 0:24:10.582 --> 0:24:13.382 Several hairs had been found on the remains of the 0:24:13.382 --> 0:24:15.142 Gilgo fr and. 0:24:16.782 --> 0:24:19.102