WEBVTT - The Problem With Being The 'Easy Kid' 0:00:08.234 --> 0:00:10.914 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:20.714 --> 0:00:23.794 Welcome to Parenting out Loud, the podcast for parents who 0:00:23.834 --> 0:00:25.994 don't always listen to parenting podcasts. 0:00:26.354 --> 0:00:27.394 We're here to get you up to. 0:00:27.354 --> 0:00:30.354 Speed on what's happening in the culture and what parents 0:00:30.394 --> 0:00:31.714 are actually thinking about. 0:00:32.153 --> 0:00:34.914 I am Stacey Hicks, I'm Amelia Laster. 0:00:35.193 --> 0:00:38.793 And I'm Claire Stevens filling in for Mons, who is 0:00:38.833 --> 0:00:42.914 off doing allegedly more important things Mum Maya's new show Unleashed. 0:00:43.114 --> 0:00:45.233 She is, but we're happy to have you and the 0:00:45.314 --> 0:00:46.593 human you're currently growing. 0:00:46.674 --> 0:00:52.674 Yeah, longtime fan, first time yeah host like I forgot 0:00:52.714 --> 0:00:53.633 the word for host. 0:00:54.834 --> 0:00:58.794 Of coming up on today's show. 0:00:58.994 --> 0:01:01.714 Are easy kids all they're cracked up to be. 0:01:02.234 --> 0:01:05.074 And there are two types of households and they both 0:01:05.154 --> 0:01:07.514 hinge on a word that I can't say without laughing. 0:01:07.634 --> 0:01:10.114 So we'll see how this goes and the case for 0:01:10.194 --> 0:01:14.754 watching TV with your kids. But first, in case you 0:01:14.834 --> 0:01:19.394 missed it, parents, picky eating is not your fault. So 0:01:19.514 --> 0:01:21.874 as a picky eater, and as someone who has a 0:01:21.954 --> 0:01:25.114 niece who is a very very picky eater, that would 0:01:25.154 --> 0:01:29.274 be Luca and Jesse's daughter, friend of the pod, picky 0:01:29.314 --> 0:01:32.234 eating is something I think about and talk about a lot. 0:01:32.274 --> 0:01:34.754 So I clicked really fast when I saw an article 0:01:35.034 --> 0:01:38.194 in the New York Times called There's a reason American 0:01:38.274 --> 0:01:43.474 kids are such picky eaters. And basically an historian studied 0:01:43.474 --> 0:01:46.914 the rise of picky eating and has argued that it's 0:01:46.954 --> 0:01:50.474 not a phase, it's not evolutionary, and it's not your fault. 0:01:50.714 --> 0:01:55.394 It's manufactured. And it's manufactured by the fact that we 0:01:55.554 --> 0:01:58.674 now have more processed food and we're obsessed with like 0:01:58.834 --> 0:02:03.114 snack culture. So her research shows that children in the 0:02:03.154 --> 0:02:05.354 eighteen hundreds, and I'll try not to laugh, so I 0:02:05.354 --> 0:02:10.194 say this, we're eating oysters, organ meats, bitter greens and 0:02:10.194 --> 0:02:13.034 loving them. There was no such thing as kids food, 0:02:13.954 --> 0:02:16.274 So this is an extract, she said. A group of 0:02:16.354 --> 0:02:19.634 children in eighteen thirties Boston spent their pocket money on 0:02:19.794 --> 0:02:23.714 raw oysters, dowsed them with vinegar and pepper, and ate 0:02:23.794 --> 0:02:25.154 them with rapture. 0:02:25.554 --> 0:02:27.434 That's amazing rapture. 0:02:27.594 --> 0:02:30.874 That's because they didn't have goozman and go no. 0:02:31.474 --> 0:02:33.954 We'll get to that. We will get to that. A 0:02:34.034 --> 0:02:37.674 girl in eighteen seventies New York adored a salad made 0:02:37.674 --> 0:02:41.474 of tiny crabs that she ate by the spoonful shellin. 0:02:41.234 --> 0:02:42.474 Or oh I don't like that. 0:02:42.754 --> 0:02:46.074 No, it was normal for a child to cheer when 0:02:46.114 --> 0:02:49.194 she saw turnips growing in the garden, or for another 0:02:49.314 --> 0:02:54.913 to call cabbage his delight. Also, families ate the same meal. Yes, yes, 0:02:54.994 --> 0:02:58.234 we've heard that's really important, and telling me no one 0:02:58.314 --> 0:03:00.754 snacked on anything, so when it came to meal time, 0:03:00.954 --> 0:03:06.474 people were ravenous. But then processed food exploded, so sugary 0:03:06.554 --> 0:03:11.233 cerealsckage snacks. Companies started marketing directly to children and sort 0:03:11.234 --> 0:03:15.034 of suggesting that children needed more bland foods, things that 0:03:15.074 --> 0:03:18.554 were beige and easily likable, So we were kind of 0:03:18.594 --> 0:03:23.194 trained to think that children were fussier. Stacy, does this 0:03:23.634 --> 0:03:27.114 ring true, this kind of sociological idea of why we 0:03:27.154 --> 0:03:27.913 have picky eaters? 0:03:27.994 --> 0:03:30.834 It makes sense when you put it like that, But 0:03:30.874 --> 0:03:33.274 I also think part of it is just that kids 0:03:33.314 --> 0:03:35.874 are hardwired. Like you and I were talking about that earlier, 0:03:36.114 --> 0:03:38.634 you could do the exact same thing as someone else 0:03:38.634 --> 0:03:41.154 in terms of, you know, you hand them a piece 0:03:41.154 --> 0:03:43.514 of steak to munch on so that they're used to that, 0:03:43.594 --> 0:03:46.274 and you give them lots of greenspurst whatever. It can 0:03:46.394 --> 0:03:48.194 kind of end up the same. I feel like it's 0:03:48.274 --> 0:03:50.674 kind of like personality, like you could move the dial 0:03:50.714 --> 0:03:52.834 a little bit. But I feel like a fussy eater 0:03:53.034 --> 0:03:54.794 might be a fussy eater no matter what you do. 0:03:54.954 --> 0:03:59.474 Anyone who has witnessed or who has a fussy eater, yeah, 0:03:59.514 --> 0:04:03.074 knows that it is. I look at Luna, So my niece. 0:04:03.474 --> 0:04:05.754 We gave her cottage cheese the other day. She almost 0:04:05.834 --> 0:04:08.914 vomited like it was the texture. I think she thought 0:04:08.954 --> 0:04:12.514 it was yoga. She felt tricked and she whereas Matilda, 0:04:12.594 --> 0:04:17.234 my daughter, will eat sardines, she wills and she is happy. 0:04:17.274 --> 0:04:20.074 I'm like, I'm gagging, what is wrong with you? And 0:04:20.194 --> 0:04:22.834 Jesse and I, identical twins, have done the same thing 0:04:22.914 --> 0:04:25.194 with food, and they are two different kids. 0:04:25.313 --> 0:04:28.553 Yeah, I wonder whether it's also just yes, they're saying 0:04:28.553 --> 0:04:30.674 that they need more bland foods, and maybe that's to blame, 0:04:30.753 --> 0:04:32.553 like we've just made them too used to those things. 0:04:32.674 --> 0:04:34.514 But I think it's almost that we give them a 0:04:34.553 --> 0:04:35.794 lot of choice now as well. 0:04:35.794 --> 0:04:36.794 You know how somewhere along the. 0:04:36.753 --> 0:04:38.993 Line we were taught you have to give them autonomy 0:04:39.034 --> 0:04:41.713 and say like would you like this banana yogurt or 0:04:41.753 --> 0:04:42.634 this musli bar? 0:04:42.953 --> 0:04:45.873 So that they've got lots of choices, you asking. 0:04:46.073 --> 0:04:49.993 Yeah, if it's just a musli bar, they're gonna be 0:04:50.034 --> 0:04:52.154 excited about that, in the same way that those kids 0:04:52.154 --> 0:04:53.473 were frothing over oysters. 0:04:53.873 --> 0:04:56.193 That's the best you've got, that's what you'll do. 0:04:56.313 --> 0:04:58.834 I do feel like in the nineties growing up, a 0:04:58.953 --> 0:05:03.074 musli bar was an exciting thing. That was yeah. 0:05:03.113 --> 0:05:06.633 And if it was a chocolate chip chiwi musley bara. 0:05:06.753 --> 0:05:07.593 Yeah, yeah, yep. 0:05:07.633 --> 0:05:07.833 Yeah. 0:05:08.393 --> 0:05:10.594 The other thing that I always feel like saying when 0:05:10.633 --> 0:05:15.553 we see these historical stories is kids in the nineteenth 0:05:15.553 --> 0:05:18.113 century also died a lot. 0:05:18.354 --> 0:05:19.993 That's such a good things like. 0:05:19.953 --> 0:05:23.594 Scurvy, and I just wonder were their children running around 0:05:24.234 --> 0:05:28.713 sculling oysters? Sure, but the children who were picky like me, 0:05:29.313 --> 0:05:30.194 maybe we didn't. 0:05:29.953 --> 0:05:31.993 Survive such a good point exactly. 0:05:32.034 --> 0:05:33.593 So I'd like to challenge the historian. 0:05:35.953 --> 0:05:38.513 I want to talk about a phrase that you hear 0:05:38.633 --> 0:05:40.914 a lot from new parents. I'm sure you've both heard 0:05:40.953 --> 0:05:44.113 it before. You ask new parents or how are you sleeping, 0:05:44.274 --> 0:05:46.434 and you're kind of expecting that they're going to tell 0:05:46.433 --> 0:05:49.234 you how difficult it is. But I've noticed that a 0:05:49.313 --> 0:05:52.433 lot of new parents these days instead kind of light 0:05:52.553 --> 0:05:56.513 up and they beam and they tell you, oh, we're sleeping, great, 0:05:56.674 --> 0:05:58.634 we have an easy baby. 0:05:59.154 --> 0:06:00.674 Have you ever heard people say that? 0:06:00.834 --> 0:06:03.633 And it's so annoying. But in my head I'm like, 0:06:04.633 --> 0:06:07.113 you just wait your baby. They haven't. 0:06:08.234 --> 0:06:10.034 In my head, I'm thinking just wait. 0:06:10.433 --> 0:06:12.753 But then I read this piece on Mama Mia this 0:06:12.794 --> 0:06:15.433 week that got me thinking a little bit more deeply 0:06:15.633 --> 0:06:19.394 about how we call some children easy and I guess 0:06:19.393 --> 0:06:24.113 by implications some children difficult. And it was a very 0:06:24.193 --> 0:06:27.993 moving piece by an author called Ayushi the Core and 0:06:28.034 --> 0:06:30.713 the piece is called The Emotional Cost of being the 0:06:30.794 --> 0:06:34.633 Easy Child, and it has this unforgettable first sentence. She says, 0:06:34.674 --> 0:06:38.354 the first time someone calls you easy, you don't hear. 0:06:38.234 --> 0:06:40.593 The warning in it. And what she goes on to 0:06:40.794 --> 0:06:43.713 argue is that easy children do get a lot of rewards. 0:06:43.794 --> 0:06:47.354 The rewards are attention, validation, people telling them how delightful 0:06:47.393 --> 0:06:50.154 they are, how agreeable they are, and they grow up 0:06:50.234 --> 0:06:53.073 learning that the more they stifle their own emotional needs, 0:06:53.433 --> 0:06:56.193 the more validation and approval they get from the people 0:06:56.234 --> 0:06:58.553 around them, and that can turn out to have these 0:06:58.633 --> 0:07:03.033 really pernicious effects in adulthood, As the author says, you 0:07:03.073 --> 0:07:07.833 can become extremely competent at life while feeling oddly distant 0:07:07.914 --> 0:07:11.434 from desire. I just love that concept of feeling oddly 0:07:11.474 --> 0:07:13.994 distant from desire. So I want to ask you, Stacy, 0:07:14.114 --> 0:07:16.314 because I know this really hit a chord for you. 0:07:16.393 --> 0:07:17.274 Yeah, it did. 0:07:17.514 --> 0:07:19.393 This was one of those stories that when you're reading it, 0:07:19.434 --> 0:07:22.514 you feel like glass is shattering in your head about 0:07:22.634 --> 0:07:25.874 your understanding of yourself. You need to explain this to me, yes, 0:07:25.914 --> 0:07:27.754 because this did not resonate for you in the way 0:07:27.794 --> 0:07:30.074 it did for me. And I think that's because I'm 0:07:30.474 --> 0:07:33.514 a people pleaser and you're famously type B, which we've 0:07:33.514 --> 0:07:34.234 spoken about. 0:07:34.114 --> 0:07:35.754 Mostly do not please the people. 0:07:35.834 --> 0:07:39.234 Yeah, tell us, no, you do, but just not in 0:07:39.274 --> 0:07:39.833 the same way. 0:07:40.194 --> 0:07:42.114 The main takeaway from me and what they were talking 0:07:42.114 --> 0:07:44.714 about is yes, like you get rewarded. There was this 0:07:44.754 --> 0:07:47.953 great quote about you're rewarded in a hundred small ways, 0:07:47.994 --> 0:07:51.114 like you spoke about you get a gentler tone, fewer lectures, 0:07:51.434 --> 0:07:54.034 that subtle social prestige of being called the one that 0:07:54.114 --> 0:07:57.554 gets it. But what you don't get is as much attention, 0:07:57.794 --> 0:08:00.393 as much reassurance. And the main thing is that you 0:08:00.434 --> 0:08:04.154 don't experience conflict as much. You don't ever really get 0:08:04.194 --> 0:08:08.194 to practice disappointing someone and having to in that and 0:08:08.234 --> 0:08:10.234 that just being something you have to deal with. And 0:08:10.274 --> 0:08:12.634 that was my main takeaway is that for people who 0:08:12.674 --> 0:08:15.794 wet the easy child, which I think I probably was 0:08:15.914 --> 0:08:18.994 after reading this, is that you really struggle with any 0:08:19.074 --> 0:08:22.514 kind of conflict or disapproval later on in life, like 0:08:23.034 --> 0:08:23.833 you hate it. 0:08:24.034 --> 0:08:26.474 Do you draw a straight line from that to were 0:08:26.474 --> 0:08:28.914 you told as a child, Oh, you're so easy, you're 0:08:28.953 --> 0:08:30.074 so you're no trouble. 0:08:30.234 --> 0:08:30.674 I think so. 0:08:30.834 --> 0:08:32.474 I think I was always seen as you're such a 0:08:32.514 --> 0:08:35.314 good girl, you're such a high achiever, you do all 0:08:35.354 --> 0:08:37.994 of the right things. And not that my brother wasn't 0:08:37.994 --> 0:08:40.234 a difficult child by any means, but I think it's 0:08:40.234 --> 0:08:44.114 probably something that got put on me that has kind 0:08:44.114 --> 0:08:47.314 of followed me to the point where I think that 0:08:47.314 --> 0:08:48.914 that just does play out. 0:08:48.954 --> 0:08:50.154 And it reminded me a lot. 0:08:50.194 --> 0:08:52.514 There's this other article I saw the other week in 0:08:52.594 --> 0:08:55.674 the New Yorker about fawning. Have you you know the 0:08:55.674 --> 0:08:59.754 the concept of fite flight freezer fawn and that if 0:08:59.754 --> 0:09:02.594 you're a fauner, you're basically trying to ingratiate yourself to 0:09:02.674 --> 0:09:05.713 someone who you want to earn their approval. And I 0:09:05.754 --> 0:09:09.194 could definitely see how people were easy children then grow 0:09:09.274 --> 0:09:11.794 up to be fourness to kind of fit in and 0:09:12.154 --> 0:09:14.434 make sure that they're still holding that label. 0:09:14.674 --> 0:09:16.674 Did you feel that you're not long? 0:09:16.754 --> 0:09:18.234 Yeah, you were aggressively clear. 0:09:19.074 --> 0:09:21.754 My mum would always laugh because in primary school, if 0:09:21.754 --> 0:09:25.594 somebody was mean to me, I would be overly nice 0:09:25.714 --> 0:09:28.914 to them. That was my only response. So there was 0:09:29.074 --> 0:09:31.434 a girl who was bullying me, and apparently I don't 0:09:31.474 --> 0:09:34.514 remember it, I must have been like five, and I 0:09:34.554 --> 0:09:37.074 told her she had beautiful hair, and then she was 0:09:37.114 --> 0:09:42.434 like clean, so nice, and that has always been my like, am. 0:09:42.474 --> 0:09:45.394 I but that's brilliant, Like just tell someone who's being 0:09:45.434 --> 0:09:46.354 awful to you that they. 0:09:46.234 --> 0:09:47.114 Have beautiful hair. 0:09:47.194 --> 0:09:50.314 Yeah, no, I like it is a good strategy. However, 0:09:51.034 --> 0:09:56.114 it does mean that I absolutely hate conflict and I'm 0:09:56.154 --> 0:09:57.714 not good at it. I feel like I had no 0:09:57.874 --> 0:10:00.354 choice for it to be an easy child because mum 0:10:00.434 --> 0:10:02.954 had four kids under two and a half, so two 0:10:02.954 --> 0:10:06.674 sets of twins, and you couldn't there was no room 0:10:06.834 --> 0:10:08.754 for the most difficult out of the four of us 0:10:08.794 --> 0:10:12.274 was Jesse, also a friend of Pod, and she was 0:10:12.354 --> 0:10:14.794 not difficult by any means, but she'd state what she 0:10:14.874 --> 0:10:16.754 wanted and then we'd all just kind of follow Jesse. 0:10:17.554 --> 0:10:21.274 But because of that, when it comes to any kind 0:10:21.314 --> 0:10:24.594 of I see things as conflict that my husband does 0:10:24.594 --> 0:10:26.074 not see as conflict. 0:10:26.114 --> 0:10:29.314 And he because you're always scanning. 0:10:29.074 --> 0:10:33.874 Yes, yes, I'm scared, and I am constantly scared of 0:10:34.074 --> 0:10:37.634 getting in trouble. It's my worst fear getting in trouble 0:10:37.794 --> 0:10:41.154 from strangers, even just stating needs. Like if somebody kind 0:10:41.154 --> 0:10:44.274 of asks me if I can do something, it's sort 0:10:44.314 --> 0:10:46.074 of only occurred to me in the last couple of 0:10:46.154 --> 0:10:47.234 years that I can say no. 0:10:47.834 --> 0:10:51.034 So how is this informing how you parent? Then? 0:10:51.154 --> 0:10:55.314 Because obviously you had a very happy childhood and you're 0:10:55.354 --> 0:10:57.914 still very close with your parents. It's not as though 0:10:57.954 --> 0:11:00.514 you're saying they did something wrong, But is there a 0:11:00.554 --> 0:11:03.354 way that you want to parent differently? 0:11:04.034 --> 0:11:06.954 The lovely thing about parenting that I didn't expect is 0:11:07.354 --> 0:11:10.874 child comes out as them and they are not a 0:11:10.914 --> 0:11:13.434 mirror image of you. And I look at Matilda and 0:11:13.474 --> 0:11:16.634 I'm like, oh, you are just you know what you want. 0:11:16.674 --> 0:11:20.394 In terms of personality, she's like my husband. She is 0:11:20.434 --> 0:11:24.274 an extrovert, which is so unfamiliar to me. At the park, 0:11:24.354 --> 0:11:26.794 she's like going up to kids I look at her 0:11:26.954 --> 0:11:29.754 and think it is my job to encourage that and 0:11:29.834 --> 0:11:35.114 to not get her to minimize herself because she's freaking hilarious. 0:11:35.834 --> 0:11:39.354 But it is interesting to then see Jesse's daughter, who 0:11:39.394 --> 0:11:42.794 is more of that people pleaser, doesn't want to upset anyone, 0:11:42.914 --> 0:11:45.794 and to see that contrast. But this is the tricky thing. 0:11:46.194 --> 0:11:48.994 I do think part of it's innate, part of it's 0:11:48.994 --> 0:11:51.834 an eight. It becomes self fulfilling, Like you are kind 0:11:51.834 --> 0:11:56.233 of pegged as, oh, thank god, you're conscientious, you're quiet, 0:11:56.394 --> 0:11:59.674 you listen, you follow instructions. I think for me, like 0:12:00.114 --> 0:12:03.514 probably there were some personality things that came out later 0:12:03.594 --> 0:12:06.194 that weren't that that then had to be kind of 0:12:06.234 --> 0:12:10.074 suppressed because I was chaotic and disorganized, but I was 0:12:10.074 --> 0:12:11.834 always trying to mask it because I was like no, no, no, 0:12:11.834 --> 0:12:13.434 no no, I meant to be the good one. 0:12:13.554 --> 0:12:15.914 Yeah, but then there's things in there, like she mentions 0:12:16.314 --> 0:12:20.234 that you will be praised for being less needy, and 0:12:20.234 --> 0:12:22.554 that scene is a really positive thing. But what that 0:12:22.634 --> 0:12:25.394 does is say to you, don't ever say your needs, 0:12:25.674 --> 0:12:28.034 and you're kind of are pushing down things that probably 0:12:28.034 --> 0:12:31.274 are naturally something that you would do to see that. 0:12:31.594 --> 0:12:33.714 Do not lie to me. Are you walking around all 0:12:33.794 --> 0:12:35.594 day at work with a little voice in your head 0:12:35.594 --> 0:12:36.714 that's whispering, do not. 0:12:36.674 --> 0:12:42.834 Say your needs? And then I close surprised when other 0:12:42.874 --> 0:12:45.434 people do it, and I'm like, I'm not mad at you. 0:12:45.554 --> 0:12:49.754 Yeah, that's what she was saying when she was going 0:12:49.754 --> 0:12:51.874 through like what the costs become when you're older, And 0:12:51.914 --> 0:12:53.754 it's like they're subtle, Like these things are not things 0:12:53.754 --> 0:12:54.914 that are ruining our lives. 0:12:54.954 --> 0:12:55.834 Like that's very clear. 0:12:55.914 --> 0:12:57.834 And also like on the flip side, we should say 0:12:57.874 --> 0:13:00.554 people who are constantly telling you their needs are tedious. 0:13:00.674 --> 0:13:04.714 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't direct, so it's fine to 0:13:04.714 --> 0:13:06.874 be the way you are. But one of the ones 0:13:06.914 --> 0:13:08.794 I though it was really interesting she spoke about the 0:13:08.834 --> 0:13:11.954 over apologizing, So even when things that are not something 0:13:11.954 --> 0:13:14.914 that you've done, you will apologize just to ingratiate yourself 0:13:14.954 --> 0:13:17.234 to someone. But the other one was that you struggle 0:13:17.554 --> 0:13:21.353 to be even slightly inconvenient without thinking it's a catastrophe. 0:13:21.754 --> 0:13:23.634 Yeah, and that's what we're talking about. 0:13:23.714 --> 0:13:26.554 So I guess the reassurance for people who have children 0:13:26.594 --> 0:13:29.914 that are not considered easy is that they will ask 0:13:29.954 --> 0:13:31.874 for what they want when they're older, and that's great, 0:13:31.914 --> 0:13:34.034 So we just need to roll with whatever they are. 0:13:34.354 --> 0:13:35.394 That should be encouraged. 0:13:35.674 --> 0:13:38.394 Okay, little bit of a gearshift now, But I want 0:13:38.434 --> 0:13:41.194 to talk about this headline I saw. Sometimes you just 0:13:41.234 --> 0:13:44.154 see one that puts into words things that you've been 0:13:44.154 --> 0:13:47.154 grappling with your entire life. And this article fro him 0:13:47.194 --> 0:13:49.914 self was called did you grow up in a fart 0:13:50.034 --> 0:13:53.714 pride or a fart shame household? And if you can 0:13:53.754 --> 0:13:56.474 already hear me giggling, you know which one I'm from. 0:13:56.914 --> 0:13:59.074 It's probably quite obvious to you what is what, but 0:13:59.154 --> 0:14:01.354 I'll just spell it out for you. So, if you're 0:14:01.394 --> 0:14:04.594 from a fart pride household, a fart is just a fart. 0:14:05.074 --> 0:14:07.514 There's no reaction from anyone, and they might even be 0:14:07.554 --> 0:14:10.834 seen as funny. If you're from a fart shame household, 0:14:10.914 --> 0:14:13.314 it's not that you were like forbidden or like shunned 0:14:13.354 --> 0:14:15.754 from the house if you let one slip out, But 0:14:15.834 --> 0:14:17.874 it's more that you were told that it was something 0:14:17.874 --> 0:14:20.234 that needed to be minimized or controlled, or you had 0:14:20.274 --> 0:14:20.994 to be considerate. 0:14:21.034 --> 0:14:21.674 It was seen as. 0:14:21.594 --> 0:14:23.794 Bad manners if you were doing this in front of 0:14:23.794 --> 0:14:24.834 someone else, I am. 0:14:24.794 --> 0:14:27.154 Dying to know. Are you which one were you guys. 0:14:27.194 --> 0:14:30.194 Yeah, see, I think it's gendered potentially, if you grew 0:14:30.274 --> 0:14:32.314 up with like all girls, it might be a different thing. 0:14:32.314 --> 0:14:35.354 But because I had brothers, yeah, I would say, because 0:14:35.394 --> 0:14:40.234 it was we were evenly scaled genderwise. We were fart neutral. 0:14:41.914 --> 0:14:44.034 Yeah, we were. 0:14:44.674 --> 0:14:47.594 Very much a fart shame household. I don't even like 0:14:47.674 --> 0:14:48.914 talking about it, I. 0:14:48.834 --> 0:14:49.834 Know, and I can't believe. 0:14:49.914 --> 0:14:51.514 I don't think you should talk about it. 0:14:52.034 --> 0:14:54.914 I don't. I don't like anything about it. Stacey is 0:14:54.954 --> 0:14:57.994 clutching an emotional support pillar. I don't even have one. 0:14:58.714 --> 0:15:02.954 Maggie Dent, who is an Australian parenting guru. I love 0:15:03.034 --> 0:15:05.474 her work, but one part of what she writes about 0:15:05.474 --> 0:15:08.754 that I just feel very reluctant to go along with 0:15:08.914 --> 0:15:11.994 is she says that farts are a great bonding mechanism. 0:15:11.594 --> 0:15:12.634 Particularly with boys. 0:15:13.234 --> 0:15:16.074 She says a well timed fart can lighten the mood, 0:15:16.474 --> 0:15:19.474 diffuse a conflict, and be a wonderful bonding connection with 0:15:19.554 --> 0:15:22.954 a son. And she says that one specific scenario where 0:15:22.994 --> 0:15:25.794 you might try this is you're a mum, your son's 0:15:25.834 --> 0:15:28.314 just gotten up, he's grumpy, he doesn't say good morning 0:15:28.834 --> 0:15:29.754 you are meant to. 0:15:29.994 --> 0:15:31.714 And I quote this is a quote. 0:15:31.714 --> 0:15:34.714 I would never use this phrase drop a fart to 0:15:34.834 --> 0:15:35.594 lighten the mood. 0:15:35.954 --> 0:15:39.354 I'm not doing that, Maggie. I think you're brilliant. But nope, he. 0:15:39.514 --> 0:15:42.674 Gets so mad to see I need boy parenting advice 0:15:42.714 --> 0:15:45.114 because I'm eighteen weeks pregnant with a boy and I 0:15:45.154 --> 0:15:48.074 am looking That's exactly the kind of advice I'm looking 0:15:48.114 --> 0:15:48.354 for you. 0:15:48.474 --> 0:15:50.234 But I'm not gonna follow that advice. Are you going 0:15:50.234 --> 0:15:51.754 to follow that advice from Switzerland? 0:15:51.914 --> 0:15:58.114 Well, this is the thing among children. I'm very like 0:15:58.194 --> 0:16:02.394 fart liberated around children. Yes, this is a shared sense 0:16:02.434 --> 0:16:04.554 of city. Yes, this is how we can. 0:16:04.474 --> 0:16:05.514 We're on the same level. 0:16:05.634 --> 0:16:09.074 But I'm always like, don't tell you do. 0:16:09.114 --> 0:16:11.114 You know what's the worst part is that, as you 0:16:11.114 --> 0:16:13.514 were saying about this being a bit gendered sometimes, is 0:16:13.514 --> 0:16:18.434 if you marry into a fart incompatible household, that your marriage. 0:16:18.554 --> 0:16:19.594 Yes, so I've. 0:16:19.354 --> 0:16:22.754 Come from fart shame into fart proud and that is 0:16:22.794 --> 0:16:27.914 a very confusing dynamic, especially for our daughter, who sees 0:16:27.994 --> 0:16:30.754 one be very okay with this and one who just 0:16:30.794 --> 0:16:31.634 never does it. 0:16:31.954 --> 0:16:34.954 I think it's a very important question to ask on 0:16:34.954 --> 0:16:35.714 a first day. 0:16:36.034 --> 0:16:37.994 They do say, it goes quite deep like. 0:16:37.994 --> 0:16:40.874 There were mental health experts in this piece talking about 0:16:40.874 --> 0:16:43.474 how your family is unspoken. 0:16:43.194 --> 0:16:48.354 Called mental health experts that part they're busy. 0:16:47.434 --> 0:16:52.554 Said, the unspoken farterals in parts of your childhood can 0:16:52.594 --> 0:16:56.034 be a bigger representation of how you handle embarrassment, how 0:16:56.074 --> 0:16:59.074 you express being vulnerable, and how you'll get along with 0:16:59.154 --> 0:17:01.674 potential partners if you are. 0:17:02.714 --> 0:17:05.434 I reckon the easy child never farts and then you 0:17:05.513 --> 0:17:09.394 become you don't issues as an adult because you need to. 0:17:10.074 --> 0:17:12.194 And I reckon men. You know, women just always have 0:17:12.234 --> 0:17:14.474 got issues. It's because we're holding in our parts. 0:17:15.354 --> 0:17:18.474 It really is, okay, so we all need to adopt. 0:17:19.514 --> 0:17:23.314 Okids eating oysters and we're farting all the time. Yes, 0:17:23.634 --> 0:17:26.034 what great advice do you give on the show We're 0:17:26.074 --> 0:17:27.674 not your regular parenting podcast? 0:17:30.554 --> 0:17:34.313 Finally, a piece of parenting advice that doesn't make me 0:17:34.314 --> 0:17:37.274 feel like I'm failing. An opinion in The New York 0:17:37.354 --> 0:17:40.634 Times was titled just let your kids watch TV already 0:17:40.954 --> 0:17:44.634 and hell yes. The argument is we've been thinking about 0:17:44.674 --> 0:17:49.234 TV time all wrong. We've conflated screen time, which is 0:17:49.314 --> 0:17:54.794 a very isolated, singular activity, with TV time, which was 0:17:54.834 --> 0:17:58.114 always a group activity, and gave us a shared language, 0:17:58.154 --> 0:18:00.554 a way to relate to people. It was a shared experience. 0:18:01.354 --> 0:18:04.033 This essay suggests that we should be using it as 0:18:04.074 --> 0:18:07.634 a way to bond with our kids, rather than sort 0:18:07.674 --> 0:18:10.234 of outsourcing parenting to the TV. 0:18:10.474 --> 0:18:12.714 No, but see that makes me feel bad, Like that's 0:18:12.754 --> 0:18:15.594 how I use the I know I have to watch 0:18:15.674 --> 0:18:16.634 the shows with them. 0:18:17.154 --> 0:18:21.154 Well, I actually felt very smug because Matilda was a 0:18:21.154 --> 0:18:23.754 little bit sick this morning and we watched a lovely 0:18:23.794 --> 0:18:27.154 episode of Bluey together. Was on my phone. Yes, but 0:18:27.274 --> 0:18:29.314 the person who wrote this essay doesn't need to know that. 0:18:29.954 --> 0:18:32.514 So she was so cuddly. She was sucking her up. 0:18:32.554 --> 0:18:34.313 That's what I love about watching TV with a kid, 0:18:34.394 --> 0:18:35.514 if they get cuddly. 0:18:35.234 --> 0:18:37.474 Particularly the Bluey episode sleepy Time. 0:18:37.794 --> 0:18:43.833 Yes, sopid, they are really cuddly. She did ask questions. 0:18:44.034 --> 0:18:46.354 She's engaging with it, and she's like, mum, where's the 0:18:46.434 --> 0:18:48.793 mummy gone? What's that? Who's that? 0:18:48.874 --> 0:18:48.954 Like? 0:18:48.994 --> 0:18:52.514 She's asking things. I'm like, this is an enriching experience 0:18:52.874 --> 0:18:54.994 for both of us, and I don't have to move, 0:18:55.474 --> 0:18:58.194 and that is something I'm gonna need pret drop of. 0:18:59.514 --> 0:19:00.994 Actually did not. 0:19:01.554 --> 0:19:02.994 I didn't it perfect. 0:19:03.074 --> 0:19:06.394 She would have really liked that. She would have loved that. Amelia. 0:19:06.474 --> 0:19:09.314 What's your attitude towards TV as a parent? 0:19:09.354 --> 0:19:09.514 Oh? 0:19:09.554 --> 0:19:12.874 I love TV, always have watched a lot of it 0:19:12.914 --> 0:19:17.793 growing up. And I think that what I struggle with 0:19:17.834 --> 0:19:20.554 a bit with this advice is that notion of this 0:19:20.634 --> 0:19:23.194 is another thing on my to do list, Whereas TV 0:19:23.474 --> 0:19:26.273 was a way for me to fold laundry or to 0:19:26.634 --> 0:19:30.394 scroll my phone, both equally valid activities, and now I 0:19:30.514 --> 0:19:32.794 have to be able to also sit down with the 0:19:32.874 --> 0:19:34.634 kids and watch the TV with them. 0:19:35.274 --> 0:19:35.674 That's it. 0:19:35.714 --> 0:19:38.314 I think there's some really amazing ways in which TV 0:19:38.554 --> 0:19:41.354