1 00:00:08,234 --> 00:00:10,914 Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 2 00:00:20,714 --> 00:00:23,794 Speaker 2: Welcome to Parenting out Loud, the podcast for parents who 3 00:00:23,834 --> 00:00:25,994 Speaker 2: don't always listen to parenting podcasts. 4 00:00:26,354 --> 00:00:27,394 Speaker 1: We're here to get you up to. 5 00:00:27,354 --> 00:00:30,354 Speaker 2: Speed on what's happening in the culture and what parents 6 00:00:30,394 --> 00:00:31,714 Speaker 2: are actually thinking about. 7 00:00:32,153 --> 00:00:34,914 Speaker 1: I am Stacey Hicks, I'm Amelia Laster. 8 00:00:35,193 --> 00:00:38,793 Speaker 3: And I'm Claire Stevens filling in for Mons, who is 9 00:00:38,833 --> 00:00:42,914 Speaker 3: off doing allegedly more important things Mum Maya's new show Unleashed. 10 00:00:43,114 --> 00:00:45,233 Speaker 2: She is, but we're happy to have you and the 11 00:00:45,314 --> 00:00:46,593 Speaker 2: human you're currently growing. 12 00:00:46,674 --> 00:00:52,674 Speaker 3: Yeah, longtime fan, first time yeah host like I forgot 13 00:00:52,714 --> 00:00:53,633 Speaker 3: the word for host. 14 00:00:54,834 --> 00:00:58,794 Speaker 1: Of coming up on today's show. 15 00:00:58,994 --> 00:01:01,714 Speaker 4: Are easy kids all they're cracked up to be. 16 00:01:02,234 --> 00:01:05,074 Speaker 2: And there are two types of households and they both 17 00:01:05,154 --> 00:01:07,514 Speaker 2: hinge on a word that I can't say without laughing. 18 00:01:07,634 --> 00:01:10,114 Speaker 3: So we'll see how this goes and the case for 19 00:01:10,194 --> 00:01:14,754 Speaker 3: watching TV with your kids. But first, in case you 20 00:01:14,834 --> 00:01:19,394 Speaker 3: missed it, parents, picky eating is not your fault. So 21 00:01:19,514 --> 00:01:21,874 Speaker 3: as a picky eater, and as someone who has a 22 00:01:21,954 --> 00:01:25,114 Speaker 3: niece who is a very very picky eater, that would 23 00:01:25,154 --> 00:01:29,274 Speaker 3: be Luca and Jesse's daughter, friend of the pod, picky 24 00:01:29,314 --> 00:01:32,234 Speaker 3: eating is something I think about and talk about a lot. 25 00:01:32,274 --> 00:01:34,754 Speaker 3: So I clicked really fast when I saw an article 26 00:01:35,034 --> 00:01:38,194 Speaker 3: in the New York Times called There's a reason American 27 00:01:38,274 --> 00:01:43,474 Speaker 3: kids are such picky eaters. And basically an historian studied 28 00:01:43,474 --> 00:01:46,914 Speaker 3: the rise of picky eating and has argued that it's 29 00:01:46,954 --> 00:01:50,474 Speaker 3: not a phase, it's not evolutionary, and it's not your fault. 30 00:01:50,714 --> 00:01:55,394 Speaker 3: It's manufactured. And it's manufactured by the fact that we 31 00:01:55,554 --> 00:01:58,674 Speaker 3: now have more processed food and we're obsessed with like 32 00:01:58,834 --> 00:02:03,114 Speaker 3: snack culture. So her research shows that children in the 33 00:02:03,154 --> 00:02:05,354 Speaker 3: eighteen hundreds, and I'll try not to laugh, so I 34 00:02:05,354 --> 00:02:10,194 Speaker 3: say this, we're eating oysters, organ meats, bitter greens and 35 00:02:10,194 --> 00:02:13,034 Speaker 3: loving them. There was no such thing as kids food, 36 00:02:13,954 --> 00:02:16,274 Speaker 3: So this is an extract, she said. A group of 37 00:02:16,354 --> 00:02:19,634 Speaker 3: children in eighteen thirties Boston spent their pocket money on 38 00:02:19,794 --> 00:02:23,714 Speaker 3: raw oysters, dowsed them with vinegar and pepper, and ate 39 00:02:23,794 --> 00:02:25,154 Speaker 3: them with rapture. 40 00:02:25,554 --> 00:02:27,434 Speaker 4: That's amazing rapture. 41 00:02:27,594 --> 00:02:30,874 Speaker 1: That's because they didn't have goozman and go no. 42 00:02:31,474 --> 00:02:33,954 Speaker 3: We'll get to that. We will get to that. A 43 00:02:34,034 --> 00:02:37,674 Speaker 3: girl in eighteen seventies New York adored a salad made 44 00:02:37,674 --> 00:02:41,474 Speaker 3: of tiny crabs that she ate by the spoonful shellin. 45 00:02:41,234 --> 00:02:42,474 Speaker 4: Or oh I don't like that. 46 00:02:42,754 --> 00:02:46,074 Speaker 3: No, it was normal for a child to cheer when 47 00:02:46,114 --> 00:02:49,194 Speaker 3: she saw turnips growing in the garden, or for another 48 00:02:49,314 --> 00:02:54,913 Speaker 3: to call cabbage his delight. Also, families ate the same meal. Yes, yes, 49 00:02:54,994 --> 00:02:58,234 Speaker 3: we've heard that's really important, and telling me no one 50 00:02:58,314 --> 00:03:00,754 Speaker 3: snacked on anything, so when it came to meal time, 51 00:03:00,954 --> 00:03:06,474 Speaker 3: people were ravenous. But then processed food exploded, so sugary 52 00:03:06,554 --> 00:03:11,233 Speaker 3: cerealsckage snacks. Companies started marketing directly to children and sort 53 00:03:11,234 --> 00:03:15,034 Speaker 3: of suggesting that children needed more bland foods, things that 54 00:03:15,074 --> 00:03:18,554 Speaker 3: were beige and easily likable, So we were kind of 55 00:03:18,594 --> 00:03:23,194 Speaker 3: trained to think that children were fussier. Stacy, does this 56 00:03:23,634 --> 00:03:27,114 Speaker 3: ring true, this kind of sociological idea of why we 57 00:03:27,154 --> 00:03:27,913 Speaker 3: have picky eaters? 58 00:03:27,994 --> 00:03:30,834 Speaker 2: It makes sense when you put it like that, But 59 00:03:30,874 --> 00:03:33,274 Speaker 2: I also think part of it is just that kids 60 00:03:33,314 --> 00:03:35,874 Speaker 2: are hardwired. Like you and I were talking about that earlier, 61 00:03:36,114 --> 00:03:38,634 Speaker 2: you could do the exact same thing as someone else 62 00:03:38,634 --> 00:03:41,154 Speaker 2: in terms of, you know, you hand them a piece 63 00:03:41,154 --> 00:03:43,514 Speaker 2: of steak to munch on so that they're used to that, 64 00:03:43,594 --> 00:03:46,274 Speaker 2: and you give them lots of greenspurst whatever. It can 65 00:03:46,394 --> 00:03:48,194 Speaker 2: kind of end up the same. I feel like it's 66 00:03:48,274 --> 00:03:50,674 Speaker 2: kind of like personality, like you could move the dial 67 00:03:50,714 --> 00:03:52,834 Speaker 2: a little bit. But I feel like a fussy eater 68 00:03:53,034 --> 00:03:54,794 Speaker 2: might be a fussy eater no matter what you do. 69 00:03:54,954 --> 00:03:59,474 Speaker 3: Anyone who has witnessed or who has a fussy eater, yeah, 70 00:03:59,514 --> 00:04:03,074 Speaker 3: knows that it is. I look at Luna, So my niece. 71 00:04:03,474 --> 00:04:05,754 Speaker 3: We gave her cottage cheese the other day. She almost 72 00:04:05,834 --> 00:04:08,914 Speaker 3: vomited like it was the texture. I think she thought 73 00:04:08,954 --> 00:04:12,514 Speaker 3: it was yoga. She felt tricked and she whereas Matilda, 74 00:04:12,594 --> 00:04:17,234 Speaker 3: my daughter, will eat sardines, she wills and she is happy. 75 00:04:17,274 --> 00:04:20,074 Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm gagging, what is wrong with you? And 76 00:04:20,194 --> 00:04:22,834 Speaker 3: Jesse and I, identical twins, have done the same thing 77 00:04:22,914 --> 00:04:25,194 Speaker 3: with food, and they are two different kids. 78 00:04:25,313 --> 00:04:28,553 Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder whether it's also just yes, they're saying 79 00:04:28,553 --> 00:04:30,674 Speaker 2: that they need more bland foods, and maybe that's to blame, 80 00:04:30,753 --> 00:04:32,553 Speaker 2: like we've just made them too used to those things. 81 00:04:32,674 --> 00:04:34,514 Speaker 2: But I think it's almost that we give them a 82 00:04:34,553 --> 00:04:35,794 Speaker 2: lot of choice now as well. 83 00:04:35,794 --> 00:04:36,794 Speaker 1: You know how somewhere along the. 84 00:04:36,753 --> 00:04:38,993 Speaker 2: Line we were taught you have to give them autonomy 85 00:04:39,034 --> 00:04:41,713 Speaker 2: and say like would you like this banana yogurt or 86 00:04:41,753 --> 00:04:42,634 Speaker 2: this musli bar? 87 00:04:42,953 --> 00:04:45,873 Speaker 1: So that they've got lots of choices, you asking. 88 00:04:46,073 --> 00:04:49,993 Speaker 2: Yeah, if it's just a musli bar, they're gonna be 89 00:04:50,034 --> 00:04:52,154 Speaker 2: excited about that, in the same way that those kids 90 00:04:52,154 --> 00:04:53,473 Speaker 2: were frothing over oysters. 91 00:04:53,873 --> 00:04:56,193 Speaker 4: That's the best you've got, that's what you'll do. 92 00:04:56,313 --> 00:04:58,834 Speaker 5: I do feel like in the nineties growing up, a 93 00:04:58,953 --> 00:05:03,074 Speaker 5: musli bar was an exciting thing. That was yeah. 94 00:05:03,113 --> 00:05:06,633 Speaker 4: And if it was a chocolate chip chiwi musley bara. 95 00:05:06,753 --> 00:05:07,593 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yep. 96 00:05:07,633 --> 00:05:07,833 Speaker 4: Yeah. 97 00:05:08,393 --> 00:05:10,594 Speaker 3: The other thing that I always feel like saying when 98 00:05:10,633 --> 00:05:15,553 Speaker 3: we see these historical stories is kids in the nineteenth 99 00:05:15,553 --> 00:05:18,113 Speaker 3: century also died a lot. 100 00:05:18,354 --> 00:05:19,993 Speaker 4: That's such a good things like. 101 00:05:19,953 --> 00:05:23,594 Speaker 3: Scurvy, and I just wonder were their children running around 102 00:05:24,234 --> 00:05:28,713 Speaker 3: sculling oysters? Sure, but the children who were picky like me, 103 00:05:29,313 --> 00:05:30,194 Speaker 3: maybe we didn't. 104 00:05:29,953 --> 00:05:31,993 Speaker 4: Survive such a good point exactly. 105 00:05:32,034 --> 00:05:33,593 Speaker 3: So I'd like to challenge the historian. 106 00:05:35,953 --> 00:05:38,513 Speaker 5: I want to talk about a phrase that you hear 107 00:05:38,633 --> 00:05:40,914 Speaker 5: a lot from new parents. I'm sure you've both heard 108 00:05:40,953 --> 00:05:44,113 Speaker 5: it before. You ask new parents or how are you sleeping, 109 00:05:44,274 --> 00:05:46,434 Speaker 5: and you're kind of expecting that they're going to tell 110 00:05:46,433 --> 00:05:49,234 Speaker 5: you how difficult it is. But I've noticed that a 111 00:05:49,313 --> 00:05:52,433 Speaker 5: lot of new parents these days instead kind of light 112 00:05:52,553 --> 00:05:56,513 Speaker 5: up and they beam and they tell you, oh, we're sleeping, great, 113 00:05:56,674 --> 00:05:58,634 Speaker 5: we have an easy baby. 114 00:05:59,154 --> 00:06:00,674 Speaker 4: Have you ever heard people say that? 115 00:06:00,834 --> 00:06:03,633 Speaker 3: And it's so annoying. But in my head I'm like, 116 00:06:04,633 --> 00:06:07,113 Speaker 3: you just wait your baby. They haven't. 117 00:06:08,234 --> 00:06:10,034 Speaker 4: In my head, I'm thinking just wait. 118 00:06:10,433 --> 00:06:12,753 Speaker 5: But then I read this piece on Mama Mia this 119 00:06:12,794 --> 00:06:15,433 Speaker 5: week that got me thinking a little bit more deeply 120 00:06:15,633 --> 00:06:19,394 Speaker 5: about how we call some children easy and I guess 121 00:06:19,393 --> 00:06:24,113 Speaker 5: by implications some children difficult. And it was a very 122 00:06:24,193 --> 00:06:27,993 Speaker 5: moving piece by an author called Ayushi the Core and 123 00:06:28,034 --> 00:06:30,713 Speaker 5: the piece is called The Emotional Cost of being the 124 00:06:30,794 --> 00:06:34,633 Speaker 5: Easy Child, and it has this unforgettable first sentence. She says, 125 00:06:34,674 --> 00:06:38,354 Speaker 5: the first time someone calls you easy, you don't hear. 126 00:06:38,234 --> 00:06:40,593 Speaker 4: The warning in it. And what she goes on to 127 00:06:40,794 --> 00:06:43,713 Speaker 4: argue is that easy children do get a lot of rewards. 128 00:06:43,794 --> 00:06:47,354 Speaker 5: The rewards are attention, validation, people telling them how delightful 129 00:06:47,393 --> 00:06:50,154 Speaker 5: they are, how agreeable they are, and they grow up 130 00:06:50,234 --> 00:06:53,073 Speaker 5: learning that the more they stifle their own emotional needs, 131 00:06:53,433 --> 00:06:56,193 Speaker 5: the more validation and approval they get from the people 132 00:06:56,234 --> 00:06:58,553 Speaker 5: around them, and that can turn out to have these 133 00:06:58,633 --> 00:07:03,033 Speaker 5: really pernicious effects in adulthood, As the author says, you 134 00:07:03,073 --> 00:07:07,833 Speaker 5: can become extremely competent at life while feeling oddly distant 135 00:07:07,914 --> 00:07:11,434 Speaker 5: from desire. I just love that concept of feeling oddly 136 00:07:11,474 --> 00:07:13,994 Speaker 5: distant from desire. So I want to ask you, Stacy, 137 00:07:14,114 --> 00:07:16,314 Speaker 5: because I know this really hit a chord for you. 138 00:07:16,393 --> 00:07:17,274 Speaker 1: Yeah, it did. 139 00:07:17,514 --> 00:07:19,393 Speaker 2: This was one of those stories that when you're reading it, 140 00:07:19,434 --> 00:07:22,514 Speaker 2: you feel like glass is shattering in your head about 141 00:07:22,634 --> 00:07:25,874 Speaker 2: your understanding of yourself. You need to explain this to me, yes, 142 00:07:25,914 --> 00:07:27,754 Speaker 2: because this did not resonate for you in the way 143 00:07:27,794 --> 00:07:30,074 Speaker 2: it did for me. And I think that's because I'm 144 00:07:30,474 --> 00:07:33,514 Speaker 2: a people pleaser and you're famously type B, which we've 145 00:07:33,514 --> 00:07:34,234 Speaker 2: spoken about. 146 00:07:34,114 --> 00:07:35,754 Speaker 4: Mostly do not please the people. 147 00:07:35,834 --> 00:07:39,234 Speaker 1: Yeah, tell us, no, you do, but just not in 148 00:07:39,274 --> 00:07:39,833 Speaker 1: the same way. 149 00:07:40,194 --> 00:07:42,114 Speaker 2: The main takeaway from me and what they were talking 150 00:07:42,114 --> 00:07:44,714 Speaker 2: about is yes, like you get rewarded. There was this 151 00:07:44,754 --> 00:07:47,953 Speaker 2: great quote about you're rewarded in a hundred small ways, 152 00:07:47,994 --> 00:07:51,114 Speaker 2: like you spoke about you get a gentler tone, fewer lectures, 153 00:07:51,434 --> 00:07:54,034 Speaker 2: that subtle social prestige of being called the one that 154 00:07:54,114 --> 00:07:57,554 Speaker 2: gets it. But what you don't get is as much attention, 155 00:07:57,794 --> 00:08:00,393 Speaker 2: as much reassurance. And the main thing is that you 156 00:08:00,434 --> 00:08:04,154 Speaker 2: don't experience conflict as much. You don't ever really get 157 00:08:04,194 --> 00:08:08,194 Speaker 2: to practice disappointing someone and having to in that and 158 00:08:08,234 --> 00:08:10,234 Speaker 2: that just being something you have to deal with. And 159 00:08:10,274 --> 00:08:12,634 Speaker 2: that was my main takeaway is that for people who 160 00:08:12,674 --> 00:08:15,794 Speaker 2: wet the easy child, which I think I probably was 161 00:08:15,914 --> 00:08:18,994 Speaker 2: after reading this, is that you really struggle with any 162 00:08:19,074 --> 00:08:22,514 Speaker 2: kind of conflict or disapproval later on in life, like 163 00:08:23,034 --> 00:08:23,833 Speaker 2: you hate it. 164 00:08:24,034 --> 00:08:26,474 Speaker 5: Do you draw a straight line from that to were 165 00:08:26,474 --> 00:08:28,914 Speaker 5: you told as a child, Oh, you're so easy, you're 166 00:08:28,953 --> 00:08:30,074 Speaker 5: so you're no trouble. 167 00:08:30,234 --> 00:08:30,674 Speaker 1: I think so. 168 00:08:30,834 --> 00:08:32,474 Speaker 2: I think I was always seen as you're such a 169 00:08:32,514 --> 00:08:35,314 Speaker 2: good girl, you're such a high achiever, you do all 170 00:08:35,354 --> 00:08:37,994 Speaker 2: of the right things. And not that my brother wasn't 171 00:08:37,994 --> 00:08:40,234 Speaker 2: a difficult child by any means, but I think it's 172 00:08:40,234 --> 00:08:44,114 Speaker 2: probably something that got put on me that has kind 173 00:08:44,114 --> 00:08:47,314 Speaker 2: of followed me to the point where I think that 174 00:08:47,314 --> 00:08:48,914 Speaker 2: that just does play out. 175 00:08:48,954 --> 00:08:50,154 Speaker 1: And it reminded me a lot. 176 00:08:50,194 --> 00:08:52,514 Speaker 2: There's this other article I saw the other week in 177 00:08:52,594 --> 00:08:55,674 Speaker 2: the New Yorker about fawning. Have you you know the 178 00:08:55,674 --> 00:08:59,754 Speaker 2: the concept of fite flight freezer fawn and that if 179 00:08:59,754 --> 00:09:02,594 Speaker 2: you're a fauner, you're basically trying to ingratiate yourself to 180 00:09:02,674 --> 00:09:05,713 Speaker 2: someone who you want to earn their approval. And I 181 00:09:05,754 --> 00:09:09,194 Speaker 2: could definitely see how people were easy children then grow 182 00:09:09,274 --> 00:09:11,794 Speaker 2: up to be fourness to kind of fit in and 183 00:09:12,154 --> 00:09:14,434 Speaker 2: make sure that they're still holding that label. 184 00:09:14,674 --> 00:09:16,674 Speaker 1: Did you feel that you're not long? 185 00:09:16,754 --> 00:09:18,234 Speaker 4: Yeah, you were aggressively clear. 186 00:09:19,074 --> 00:09:21,754 Speaker 3: My mum would always laugh because in primary school, if 187 00:09:21,754 --> 00:09:25,594 Speaker 3: somebody was mean to me, I would be overly nice 188 00:09:25,714 --> 00:09:28,914 Speaker 3: to them. That was my only response. So there was 189 00:09:29,074 --> 00:09:31,434 Speaker 3: a girl who was bullying me, and apparently I don't 190 00:09:31,474 --> 00:09:34,514 Speaker 3: remember it, I must have been like five, and I 191 00:09:34,554 --> 00:09:37,074 Speaker 3: told her she had beautiful hair, and then she was 192 00:09:37,114 --> 00:09:42,434 Speaker 3: like clean, so nice, and that has always been my like, am. 193 00:09:42,474 --> 00:09:45,394 Speaker 5: I but that's brilliant, Like just tell someone who's being 194 00:09:45,434 --> 00:09:46,354 Speaker 5: awful to you that they. 195 00:09:46,234 --> 00:09:47,114 Speaker 4: Have beautiful hair. 196 00:09:47,194 --> 00:09:50,314 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I like it is a good strategy. However, 197 00:09:51,034 --> 00:09:56,114 Speaker 3: it does mean that I absolutely hate conflict and I'm 198 00:09:56,154 --> 00:09:57,714 Speaker 3: not good at it. I feel like I had no 199 00:09:57,874 --> 00:10:00,354 Speaker 3: choice for it to be an easy child because mum 200 00:10:00,434 --> 00:10:02,954 Speaker 3: had four kids under two and a half, so two 201 00:10:02,954 --> 00:10:06,674 Speaker 3: sets of twins, and you couldn't there was no room 202 00:10:06,834 --> 00:10:08,754 Speaker 3: for the most difficult out of the four of us 203 00:10:08,794 --> 00:10:12,274 Speaker 3: was Jesse, also a friend of Pod, and she was 204 00:10:12,354 --> 00:10:14,794 Speaker 3: not difficult by any means, but she'd state what she 205 00:10:14,874 --> 00:10:16,754 Speaker 3: wanted and then we'd all just kind of follow Jesse. 206 00:10:17,554 --> 00:10:21,274 Speaker 3: But because of that, when it comes to any kind 207 00:10:21,314 --> 00:10:24,594 Speaker 3: of I see things as conflict that my husband does 208 00:10:24,594 --> 00:10:26,074 Speaker 3: not see as conflict. 209 00:10:26,114 --> 00:10:29,314 Speaker 4: And he because you're always scanning. 210 00:10:29,074 --> 00:10:33,874 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I'm scared, and I am constantly scared of 211 00:10:34,074 --> 00:10:37,634 Speaker 3: getting in trouble. It's my worst fear getting in trouble 212 00:10:37,794 --> 00:10:41,154 Speaker 3: from strangers, even just stating needs. Like if somebody kind 213 00:10:41,154 --> 00:10:44,274 Speaker 3: of asks me if I can do something, it's sort 214 00:10:44,314 --> 00:10:46,074 Speaker 3: of only occurred to me in the last couple of 215 00:10:46,154 --> 00:10:47,234 Speaker 3: years that I can say no. 216 00:10:47,834 --> 00:10:51,034 Speaker 4: So how is this informing how you parent? Then? 217 00:10:51,154 --> 00:10:55,314 Speaker 5: Because obviously you had a very happy childhood and you're 218 00:10:55,354 --> 00:10:57,914 Speaker 5: still very close with your parents. It's not as though 219 00:10:57,954 --> 00:11:00,514 Speaker 5: you're saying they did something wrong, But is there a 220 00:11:00,554 --> 00:11:03,354 Speaker 5: way that you want to parent differently? 221 00:11:04,034 --> 00:11:06,954 Speaker 3: The lovely thing about parenting that I didn't expect is 222 00:11:07,354 --> 00:11:10,874 Speaker 3: child comes out as them and they are not a 223 00:11:10,914 --> 00:11:13,434 Speaker 3: mirror image of you. And I look at Matilda and 224 00:11:13,474 --> 00:11:16,634 Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, you are just you know what you want. 225 00:11:16,674 --> 00:11:20,394 Speaker 3: In terms of personality, she's like my husband. She is 226 00:11:20,434 --> 00:11:24,274 Speaker 3: an extrovert, which is so unfamiliar to me. At the park, 227 00:11:24,354 --> 00:11:26,794 Speaker 3: she's like going up to kids I look at her 228 00:11:26,954 --> 00:11:29,754 Speaker 3: and think it is my job to encourage that and 229 00:11:29,834 --> 00:11:35,114 Speaker 3: to not get her to minimize herself because she's freaking hilarious. 230 00:11:35,834 --> 00:11:39,354 Speaker 3: But it is interesting to then see Jesse's daughter, who 231 00:11:39,394 --> 00:11:42,794 Speaker 3: is more of that people pleaser, doesn't want to upset anyone, 232 00:11:42,914 --> 00:11:45,794 Speaker 3: and to see that contrast. But this is the tricky thing. 233 00:11:46,194 --> 00:11:48,994 Speaker 3: I do think part of it's innate, part of it's 234 00:11:48,994 --> 00:11:51,834 Speaker 3: an eight. It becomes self fulfilling, Like you are kind 235 00:11:51,834 --> 00:11:56,233 Speaker 3: of pegged as, oh, thank god, you're conscientious, you're quiet, 236 00:11:56,394 --> 00:11:59,674 Speaker 3: you listen, you follow instructions. I think for me, like 237 00:12:00,114 --> 00:12:03,514 Speaker 3: probably there were some personality things that came out later 238 00:12:03,594 --> 00:12:06,194 Speaker 3: that weren't that that then had to be kind of 239 00:12:06,234 --> 00:12:10,074 Speaker 3: suppressed because I was chaotic and disorganized, but I was 240 00:12:10,074 --> 00:12:11,834 Speaker 3: always trying to mask it because I was like no, no, no, 241 00:12:11,834 --> 00:12:13,434 Speaker 3: no no, I meant to be the good one. 242 00:12:13,554 --> 00:12:15,914 Speaker 2: Yeah, but then there's things in there, like she mentions 243 00:12:16,314 --> 00:12:20,234 Speaker 2: that you will be praised for being less needy, and 244 00:12:20,234 --> 00:12:22,554 Speaker 2: that scene is a really positive thing. But what that 245 00:12:22,634 --> 00:12:25,394 Speaker 2: does is say to you, don't ever say your needs, 246 00:12:25,674 --> 00:12:28,034 Speaker 2: and you're kind of are pushing down things that probably 247 00:12:28,034 --> 00:12:31,274 Speaker 2: are naturally something that you would do to see that. 248 00:12:31,594 --> 00:12:33,714 Speaker 4: Do not lie to me. Are you walking around all 249 00:12:33,794 --> 00:12:35,594 Speaker 4: day at work with a little voice in your head 250 00:12:35,594 --> 00:12:36,714 Speaker 4: that's whispering, do not. 251 00:12:36,674 --> 00:12:42,834 Speaker 3: Say your needs? And then I close surprised when other 252 00:12:42,874 --> 00:12:45,434 Speaker 3: people do it, and I'm like, I'm not mad at you. 253 00:12:45,554 --> 00:12:49,754 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what she was saying when she was going 254 00:12:49,754 --> 00:12:51,874 Speaker 2: through like what the costs become when you're older, And 255 00:12:51,914 --> 00:12:53,754 Speaker 2: it's like they're subtle, Like these things are not things 256 00:12:53,754 --> 00:12:54,914 Speaker 2: that are ruining our lives. 257 00:12:54,954 --> 00:12:55,834 Speaker 1: Like that's very clear. 258 00:12:55,914 --> 00:12:57,834 Speaker 5: And also like on the flip side, we should say 259 00:12:57,874 --> 00:13:00,554 Speaker 5: people who are constantly telling you their needs are tedious. 260 00:13:00,674 --> 00:13:04,714 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't direct, so it's fine to 261 00:13:04,714 --> 00:13:06,874 Speaker 2: be the way you are. But one of the ones 262 00:13:06,914 --> 00:13:08,794 Speaker 2: I though it was really interesting she spoke about the 263 00:13:08,834 --> 00:13:11,954 Speaker 2: over apologizing, So even when things that are not something 264 00:13:11,954 --> 00:13:14,914 Speaker 2: that you've done, you will apologize just to ingratiate yourself 265 00:13:14,954 --> 00:13:17,234 Speaker 2: to someone. But the other one was that you struggle 266 00:13:17,554 --> 00:13:21,353 Speaker 2: to be even slightly inconvenient without thinking it's a catastrophe. 267 00:13:21,754 --> 00:13:23,634 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's what we're talking about. 268 00:13:23,714 --> 00:13:26,554 Speaker 2: So I guess the reassurance for people who have children 269 00:13:26,594 --> 00:13:29,914 Speaker 2: that are not considered easy is that they will ask 270 00:13:29,954 --> 00:13:31,874 Speaker 2: for what they want when they're older, and that's great, 271 00:13:31,914 --> 00:13:34,034 Speaker 2: So we just need to roll with whatever they are. 272 00:13:34,354 --> 00:13:35,394 Speaker 3: That should be encouraged. 273 00:13:35,674 --> 00:13:38,394 Speaker 2: Okay, little bit of a gearshift now, But I want 274 00:13:38,434 --> 00:13:41,194 Speaker 2: to talk about this headline I saw. Sometimes you just 275 00:13:41,234 --> 00:13:44,154 Speaker 2: see one that puts into words things that you've been 276 00:13:44,154 --> 00:13:47,154 Speaker 2: grappling with your entire life. And this article fro him 277 00:13:47,194 --> 00:13:49,914 Speaker 2: self was called did you grow up in a fart 278 00:13:50,034 --> 00:13:53,714 Speaker 2: pride or a fart shame household? And if you can 279 00:13:53,754 --> 00:13:56,474 Speaker 2: already hear me giggling, you know which one I'm from. 280 00:13:56,914 --> 00:13:59,074 Speaker 2: It's probably quite obvious to you what is what, but 281 00:13:59,154 --> 00:14:01,354 Speaker 2: I'll just spell it out for you. So, if you're 282 00:14:01,394 --> 00:14:04,594 Speaker 2: from a fart pride household, a fart is just a fart. 283 00:14:05,074 --> 00:14:07,514 Speaker 2: There's no reaction from anyone, and they might even be 284 00:14:07,554 --> 00:14:10,834 Speaker 2: seen as funny. If you're from a fart shame household, 285 00:14:10,914 --> 00:14:13,314 Speaker 2: it's not that you were like forbidden or like shunned 286 00:14:13,354 --> 00:14:15,754 Speaker 2: from the house if you let one slip out, But 287 00:14:15,834 --> 00:14:17,874 Speaker 2: it's more that you were told that it was something 288 00:14:17,874 --> 00:14:20,234 Speaker 2: that needed to be minimized or controlled, or you had 289 00:14:20,274 --> 00:14:20,994 Speaker 2: to be considerate. 290 00:14:21,034 --> 00:14:21,674 Speaker 1: It was seen as. 291 00:14:21,594 --> 00:14:23,794 Speaker 2: Bad manners if you were doing this in front of 292 00:14:23,794 --> 00:14:24,834 Speaker 2: someone else, I am. 293 00:14:24,794 --> 00:14:27,154 Speaker 4: Dying to know. Are you which one were you guys. 294 00:14:27,194 --> 00:14:30,194 Speaker 3: Yeah, see, I think it's gendered potentially, if you grew 295 00:14:30,274 --> 00:14:32,314 Speaker 3: up with like all girls, it might be a different thing. 296 00:14:32,314 --> 00:14:35,354 Speaker 3: But because I had brothers, yeah, I would say, because 297 00:14:35,394 --> 00:14:40,234 Speaker 3: it was we were evenly scaled genderwise. We were fart neutral. 298 00:14:41,914 --> 00:14:44,034 Speaker 4: Yeah, we were. 299 00:14:44,674 --> 00:14:47,594 Speaker 5: Very much a fart shame household. I don't even like 300 00:14:47,674 --> 00:14:48,914 Speaker 5: talking about it, I. 301 00:14:48,834 --> 00:14:49,834 Speaker 1: Know, and I can't believe. 302 00:14:49,914 --> 00:14:51,514 Speaker 4: I don't think you should talk about it. 303 00:14:52,034 --> 00:14:54,914 Speaker 5: I don't. I don't like anything about it. Stacey is 304 00:14:54,954 --> 00:14:57,994 Speaker 5: clutching an emotional support pillar. I don't even have one. 305 00:14:58,714 --> 00:15:02,954 Speaker 5: Maggie Dent, who is an Australian parenting guru. I love 306 00:15:03,034 --> 00:15:05,474 Speaker 5: her work, but one part of what she writes about 307 00:15:05,474 --> 00:15:08,754 Speaker 5: that I just feel very reluctant to go along with 308 00:15:08,914 --> 00:15:11,994 Speaker 5: is she says that farts are a great bonding mechanism. 309 00:15:11,594 --> 00:15:12,634 Speaker 4: Particularly with boys. 310 00:15:13,234 --> 00:15:16,074 Speaker 5: She says a well timed fart can lighten the mood, 311 00:15:16,474 --> 00:15:19,474 Speaker 5: diffuse a conflict, and be a wonderful bonding connection with 312 00:15:19,554 --> 00:15:22,954 Speaker 5: a son. And she says that one specific scenario where 313 00:15:22,994 --> 00:15:25,794 Speaker 5: you might try this is you're a mum, your son's 314 00:15:25,834 --> 00:15:28,314 Speaker 5: just gotten up, he's grumpy, he doesn't say good morning 315 00:15:28,834 --> 00:15:29,754 Speaker 5: you are meant to. 316 00:15:29,994 --> 00:15:31,714 Speaker 4: And I quote this is a quote. 317 00:15:31,714 --> 00:15:34,714 Speaker 5: I would never use this phrase drop a fart to 318 00:15:34,834 --> 00:15:35,594 Speaker 5: lighten the mood. 319 00:15:35,954 --> 00:15:39,354 Speaker 4: I'm not doing that, Maggie. I think you're brilliant. But nope, he. 320 00:15:39,514 --> 00:15:42,674 Speaker 3: Gets so mad to see I need boy parenting advice 321 00:15:42,714 --> 00:15:45,114 Speaker 3: because I'm eighteen weeks pregnant with a boy and I 322 00:15:45,154 --> 00:15:48,074 Speaker 3: am looking That's exactly the kind of advice I'm looking 323 00:15:48,114 --> 00:15:48,354 Speaker 3: for you. 324 00:15:48,474 --> 00:15:50,234 Speaker 5: But I'm not gonna follow that advice. Are you going 325 00:15:50,234 --> 00:15:51,754 Speaker 5: to follow that advice from Switzerland? 326 00:15:51,914 --> 00:15:58,114 Speaker 3: Well, this is the thing among children. I'm very like 327 00:15:58,194 --> 00:16:02,394 Speaker 3: fart liberated around children. Yes, this is a shared sense 328 00:16:02,434 --> 00:16:04,554 Speaker 3: of city. Yes, this is how we can. 329 00:16:04,474 --> 00:16:05,514 Speaker 1: We're on the same level. 330 00:16:05,634 --> 00:16:09,074 Speaker 3: But I'm always like, don't tell you do. 331 00:16:09,114 --> 00:16:11,114 Speaker 2: You know what's the worst part is that, as you 332 00:16:11,114 --> 00:16:13,514 Speaker 2: were saying about this being a bit gendered sometimes, is 333 00:16:13,514 --> 00:16:18,434 Speaker 2: if you marry into a fart incompatible household, that your marriage. 334 00:16:18,554 --> 00:16:19,594 Speaker 1: Yes, so I've. 335 00:16:19,354 --> 00:16:22,754 Speaker 2: Come from fart shame into fart proud and that is 336 00:16:22,794 --> 00:16:27,914 Speaker 2: a very confusing dynamic, especially for our daughter, who sees 337 00:16:27,994 --> 00:16:30,754 Speaker 2: one be very okay with this and one who just 338 00:16:30,794 --> 00:16:31,634 Speaker 2: never does it. 339 00:16:31,954 --> 00:16:34,954 Speaker 5: I think it's a very important question to ask on 340 00:16:34,954 --> 00:16:35,714 Speaker 5: a first day. 341 00:16:36,034 --> 00:16:37,994 Speaker 1: They do say, it goes quite deep like. 342 00:16:37,994 --> 00:16:40,874 Speaker 2: There were mental health experts in this piece talking about 343 00:16:40,874 --> 00:16:43,474 Speaker 2: how your family is unspoken. 344 00:16:43,194 --> 00:16:48,354 Speaker 5: Called mental health experts that part they're busy. 345 00:16:47,434 --> 00:16:52,554 Speaker 2: Said, the unspoken farterals in parts of your childhood can 346 00:16:52,594 --> 00:16:56,034 Speaker 2: be a bigger representation of how you handle embarrassment, how 347 00:16:56,074 --> 00:16:59,074 Speaker 2: you express being vulnerable, and how you'll get along with 348 00:16:59,154 --> 00:17:01,674 Speaker 2: potential partners if you are. 349 00:17:02,714 --> 00:17:05,434 Speaker 3: I reckon the easy child never farts and then you 350 00:17:05,513 --> 00:17:09,394 Speaker 3: become you don't issues as an adult because you need to. 351 00:17:10,074 --> 00:17:12,194 Speaker 3: And I reckon men. You know, women just always have 352 00:17:12,234 --> 00:17:14,474 Speaker 3: got issues. It's because we're holding in our parts. 353 00:17:15,354 --> 00:17:18,474 Speaker 1: It really is, okay, so we all need to adopt. 354 00:17:19,514 --> 00:17:23,314 Speaker 5: Okids eating oysters and we're farting all the time. Yes, 355 00:17:23,634 --> 00:17:26,034 Speaker 5: what great advice do you give on the show We're 356 00:17:26,074 --> 00:17:27,674 Speaker 5: not your regular parenting podcast? 357 00:17:30,554 --> 00:17:34,313 Speaker 3: Finally, a piece of parenting advice that doesn't make me 358 00:17:34,314 --> 00:17:37,274 Speaker 3: feel like I'm failing. An opinion in The New York 359 00:17:37,354 --> 00:17:40,634 Speaker 3: Times was titled just let your kids watch TV already 360 00:17:40,954 --> 00:17:44,634 Speaker 3: and hell yes. The argument is we've been thinking about 361 00:17:44,674 --> 00:17:49,234 Speaker 3: TV time all wrong. We've conflated screen time, which is 362 00:17:49,314 --> 00:17:54,794 Speaker 3: a very isolated, singular activity, with TV time, which was 363 00:17:54,834 --> 00:17:58,114 Speaker 3: always a group activity, and gave us a shared language, 364 00:17:58,154 --> 00:18:00,554 Speaker 3: a way to relate to people. It was a shared experience. 365 00:18:01,354 --> 00:18:04,033 Speaker 3: This essay suggests that we should be using it as 366 00:18:04,074 --> 00:18:07,634 Speaker 3: a way to bond with our kids, rather than sort 367 00:18:07,674 --> 00:18:10,234 Speaker 3: of outsourcing parenting to the TV. 368 00:18:10,474 --> 00:18:12,714 Speaker 5: No, but see that makes me feel bad, Like that's 369 00:18:12,754 --> 00:18:15,594 Speaker 5: how I use the I know I have to watch 370 00:18:15,674 --> 00:18:16,634 Speaker 5: the shows with them. 371 00:18:17,154 --> 00:18:21,154 Speaker 3: Well, I actually felt very smug because Matilda was a 372 00:18:21,154 --> 00:18:23,754 Speaker 3: little bit sick this morning and we watched a lovely 373 00:18:23,794 --> 00:18:27,154 Speaker 3: episode of Bluey together. Was on my phone. Yes, but 374 00:18:27,274 --> 00:18:29,314 Speaker 3: the person who wrote this essay doesn't need to know that. 375 00:18:29,954 --> 00:18:32,514 Speaker 3: So she was so cuddly. She was sucking her up. 376 00:18:32,554 --> 00:18:34,313 Speaker 3: That's what I love about watching TV with a kid, 377 00:18:34,394 --> 00:18:35,514 Speaker 3: if they get cuddly. 378 00:18:35,234 --> 00:18:37,474 Speaker 4: Particularly the Bluey episode sleepy Time. 379 00:18:37,794 --> 00:18:43,833 Speaker 3: Yes, sopid, they are really cuddly. She did ask questions. 380 00:18:44,034 --> 00:18:46,354 Speaker 3: She's engaging with it, and she's like, mum, where's the 381 00:18:46,434 --> 00:18:48,793 Speaker 3: mummy gone? What's that? Who's that? 382 00:18:48,874 --> 00:18:48,954 Speaker 2: Like? 383 00:18:48,994 --> 00:18:52,514 Speaker 3: She's asking things. I'm like, this is an enriching experience 384 00:18:52,874 --> 00:18:54,994 Speaker 3: for both of us, and I don't have to move, 385 00:18:55,474 --> 00:18:58,194 Speaker 3: and that is something I'm gonna need pret drop of. 386 00:18:59,514 --> 00:19:00,994 Speaker 3: Actually did not. 387 00:19:01,554 --> 00:19:02,994 Speaker 4: I didn't it perfect. 388 00:19:03,074 --> 00:19:06,394 Speaker 3: She would have really liked that. She would have loved that. Amelia. 389 00:19:06,474 --> 00:19:09,314 Speaker 3: What's your attitude towards TV as a parent? 390 00:19:09,354 --> 00:19:09,514 Speaker 2: Oh? 391 00:19:09,554 --> 00:19:12,874 Speaker 5: I love TV, always have watched a lot of it 392 00:19:12,914 --> 00:19:17,793 Speaker 5: growing up. And I think that what I struggle with 393 00:19:17,834 --> 00:19:20,554 Speaker 5: a bit with this advice is that notion of this 394 00:19:20,634 --> 00:19:23,194 Speaker 5: is another thing on my to do list, Whereas TV 395 00:19:23,474 --> 00:19:26,273 Speaker 5: was a way for me to fold laundry or to 396 00:19:26,634 --> 00:19:30,394 Speaker 5: scroll my phone, both equally valid activities, and now I 397 00:19:30,514 --> 00:19:32,794 Speaker 5: have to be able to also sit down with the 398 00:19:32,874 --> 00:19:34,634 Speaker 5: kids and watch the TV with them. 399 00:19:35,274 --> 00:19:35,674 Speaker 4: That's it. 400 00:19:35,714 --> 00:19:38,314 Speaker 5: I think there's some really amazing ways in which TV 401 00:19:38,554 --> 00:19:41,354 Speaker 5: can teach children about the world. I was thinking about 402 00:19:41,354 --> 00:19:45,474 Speaker 5: this after the very sad passing of James Vanderbeek from 403 00:19:45,554 --> 00:19:49,794 Speaker 5: Dawson's Creek recently, and it got me thinking about how 404 00:19:49,914 --> 00:19:54,073 Speaker 5: important shows like Dawson's Creek were in establishing my place 405 00:19:54,114 --> 00:19:56,754 Speaker 5: in the world when I was a kid, and I 406 00:19:56,874 --> 00:20:01,074 Speaker 5: do worry that in a very diffuse, algorithm driven world, 407 00:20:01,274 --> 00:20:05,634 Speaker 5: kids are not getting those kinds of like universal monoculture 408 00:20:05,674 --> 00:20:07,834 Speaker 5: TV viewing experience as anymore. 409 00:20:08,034 --> 00:20:10,194 Speaker 4: Yeah, they're just getting sat in front of Netflix. 410 00:20:10,394 --> 00:20:13,794 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's like shows like Friends. We're a friend's household. 411 00:20:13,834 --> 00:20:16,553 Speaker 2: So Friends was the show that we always watched, and 412 00:20:16,634 --> 00:20:19,714 Speaker 2: it almost becomes like another family member, Like it gives 413 00:20:19,714 --> 00:20:22,034 Speaker 2: you a language that you will share, you say in 414 00:20:22,154 --> 00:20:25,914 Speaker 2: jokes off that show. And I feel like now screen 415 00:20:25,954 --> 00:20:28,434 Speaker 2: time and TV time, as you said, have been confused, 416 00:20:28,834 --> 00:20:30,994 Speaker 2: and so we think that we have to set limits 417 00:20:30,994 --> 00:20:32,634 Speaker 2: on all of it. But as you were saying, we 418 00:20:32,674 --> 00:20:35,874 Speaker 2: didn't have limits on We just always had the TV on, 419 00:20:36,074 --> 00:20:38,554 Speaker 2: Like I remember every day after school I'd watch Round 420 00:20:38,554 --> 00:20:43,114 Speaker 2: the Twist, Johnson and Friends Heartbreaker. Joe's catchphrase like whatever 421 00:20:43,274 --> 00:20:47,073 Speaker 2: was on, you watched it. We kind of have demonized TV, 422 00:20:47,114 --> 00:20:49,074 Speaker 2: but really, as you say, there's so many ways that 423 00:20:49,114 --> 00:20:51,794 Speaker 2: it like connects you to the world, particularly if. 424 00:20:51,674 --> 00:20:54,754 Speaker 5: You're watching it on like a big screen in other words, 425 00:20:54,754 --> 00:20:56,914 Speaker 5: not an iPad, like on a big screen in the 426 00:20:56,954 --> 00:20:59,513 Speaker 5: living room with people coming and going and parents setting 427 00:20:59,514 --> 00:21:02,714 Speaker 5: the next you answering questions. I think that experience of 428 00:21:02,794 --> 00:21:04,914 Speaker 5: watching television can be really special. 429 00:21:05,234 --> 00:21:08,594 Speaker 3: Well, even as you say, like if you're folding the 430 00:21:08,714 --> 00:21:11,154 Speaker 3: washing whatever at my place, because we live in a 431 00:21:11,274 --> 00:21:13,794 Speaker 3: tiny apartment and everything is essentially in the same room. 432 00:21:14,034 --> 00:21:17,194 Speaker 3: If I'm folding the washing, the TV's on just there. 433 00:21:17,834 --> 00:21:21,154 Speaker 3: The amount I know about the Wiggles, the amount I know, 434 00:21:21,754 --> 00:21:24,994 Speaker 3: and Matilda and I converse mostly about the Wiggles, But 435 00:21:25,034 --> 00:21:28,194 Speaker 3: then I do genuinely think that it is a bit 436 00:21:28,234 --> 00:21:31,154 Speaker 3: of a social glue that connects her to other kids, 437 00:21:31,154 --> 00:21:33,714 Speaker 3: because then you go to the Wiggles concert and she's 438 00:21:33,794 --> 00:21:39,114 Speaker 3: like Simon Lucky like she knows Wiggles says he yeah, 439 00:21:39,114 --> 00:21:40,353 Speaker 3: we go through them every night. 440 00:21:40,474 --> 00:21:44,154 Speaker 4: It's a little bit of overflow of Wiggles. No, but 441 00:21:44,194 --> 00:21:44,594 Speaker 4: they're great. 442 00:21:44,634 --> 00:21:48,754 Speaker 3: They all very different account and so you know, you 443 00:21:48,794 --> 00:21:51,394 Speaker 3: go to a Wiggles concert, you go to daycare, and 444 00:21:51,434 --> 00:21:54,394 Speaker 3: there's a way I think it actually makes her feel safe, 445 00:21:54,514 --> 00:21:56,474 Speaker 3: Like when she sees like a bluey T shirt, she's like, 446 00:21:56,514 --> 00:21:59,954 Speaker 3: you're like me, and it's kind of a shared experience 447 00:21:59,954 --> 00:22:02,834 Speaker 3: because you're right, it can feel like we don't have 448 00:22:02,994 --> 00:22:08,514 Speaker 3: those kind of shared monoculture. It's very it's rackshed, whereas 449 00:22:08,634 --> 00:22:11,754 Speaker 3: TV is kind of the one way that we can 450 00:22:11,794 --> 00:22:15,033 Speaker 3: share that. What you were saying Ameilily about feeling like 451 00:22:15,034 --> 00:22:17,634 Speaker 3: it is just another thing for you to do. I 452 00:22:17,674 --> 00:22:23,714 Speaker 3: completely agree with that, and this demonization of TV feels 453 00:22:24,154 --> 00:22:27,674 Speaker 3: really bizarre that you like, basically the only way you're 454 00:22:27,714 --> 00:22:30,114 Speaker 3: allowed to have your kid watch TV is if it's 455 00:22:30,594 --> 00:22:33,234 Speaker 3: educational in some way, or you're optimizing your bond with it, 456 00:22:33,434 --> 00:22:36,114 Speaker 3: whatever it is. And I'm just so sick of this 457 00:22:36,194 --> 00:22:39,354 Speaker 3: idea that every moment of your kid's life needs to 458 00:22:39,394 --> 00:22:42,634 Speaker 3: be optimized. Yeah, there was a comment on this article 459 00:22:42,674 --> 00:22:45,154 Speaker 3: because I always go through the comments on parenting articles. 460 00:22:45,194 --> 00:22:48,794 Speaker 3: It's so fun. And the woman who wrote it, the mum, 461 00:22:48,994 --> 00:22:52,434 Speaker 3: had clearly written out everything that she had done that 462 00:22:52,554 --> 00:22:55,994 Speaker 3: day prior to her kid watching Poor Patrol as a 463 00:22:55,994 --> 00:22:59,994 Speaker 3: bloody like defense thing of I'm not a neglectful parent. 464 00:23:00,074 --> 00:23:02,634 Speaker 3: We drew and we went outside and play. We did 465 00:23:02,634 --> 00:23:04,674 Speaker 3: all of these things. And one of the comments said 466 00:23:05,034 --> 00:23:07,593 Speaker 3: that is not an exhaustive list of every thing you 467 00:23:07,594 --> 00:23:10,234 Speaker 3: can do in Chicago with a child, and it's like, 468 00:23:10,314 --> 00:23:14,194 Speaker 3: why does it have to be? Why can't kids unwind? 469 00:23:14,514 --> 00:23:17,234 Speaker 5: Like I think that's You've just hit on another really 470 00:23:17,234 --> 00:23:20,834 Speaker 5: important point here, which is that just like adults, kids 471 00:23:20,954 --> 00:23:24,914 Speaker 5: reach a sensory limit or they're exhausted by a long day, 472 00:23:25,514 --> 00:23:27,914 Speaker 5: and just like we like to flop down in front 473 00:23:27,954 --> 00:23:30,514 Speaker 5: of the TV or we like to scroll Instagram, which 474 00:23:30,554 --> 00:23:33,754 Speaker 5: they can't do, thanks Anthony Alban easy, then. 475 00:23:34,034 --> 00:23:36,474 Speaker 4: That's what the TV is for. Yeah, gives them a 476 00:23:36,474 --> 00:23:37,754 Speaker 4: little bit of downtime. 477 00:23:38,034 --> 00:23:40,234 Speaker 2: Yeah, and she was saying that as well, like that, 478 00:23:40,954 --> 00:23:43,634 Speaker 2: sitting down with him and just watching him watch the show. 479 00:23:44,074 --> 00:23:46,553 Speaker 2: It was just the act of them doing nothing like 480 00:23:46,634 --> 00:23:48,714 Speaker 2: that's enough. It doesn't have to be that the show 481 00:23:48,874 --> 00:23:52,234 Speaker 2: is particularly educational. It was bonding for them. But they 482 00:23:52,274 --> 00:23:54,394 Speaker 2: were watching Poor Patrol and she said it was just 483 00:23:54,474 --> 00:23:55,714 Speaker 2: funny to see the moments. 484 00:23:55,714 --> 00:23:58,474 Speaker 1: He laughed. What he thought was funny about that show? 485 00:23:58,714 --> 00:24:01,674 Speaker 5: Is there anything better than a kid genuinely cackling? 486 00:24:01,794 --> 00:24:04,554 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's something that you're like, I don't really get it. Yeah, 487 00:24:05,154 --> 00:24:05,914 Speaker 3: I love that for you. 488 00:24:06,154 --> 00:24:08,874 Speaker 2: Yeah, you miss that if you're off in the next 489 00:24:08,914 --> 00:24:10,914 Speaker 2: room doing laundry, which is very much how I use 490 00:24:10,954 --> 00:24:14,034 Speaker 2: the TV as. Okay, there that's on, so I can 491 00:24:14,074 --> 00:24:16,793 Speaker 2: go and do this, but really, like we can just 492 00:24:16,874 --> 00:24:17,954 Speaker 2: chill and watch Poor patrols. 493 00:24:17,994 --> 00:24:22,154 Speaker 5: Okay, And maybe the whole thing is like, as you suggested, Stacy, 494 00:24:22,434 --> 00:24:25,754 Speaker 5: screen time has become such an umbrella for actually very 495 00:24:25,794 --> 00:24:26,714 Speaker 5: different activities. 496 00:24:26,874 --> 00:24:27,114 Speaker 4: Yeah. 497 00:24:27,274 --> 00:24:29,394 Speaker 5: Yeah, and we need to just start being a little 498 00:24:29,394 --> 00:24:32,954 Speaker 5: bit more unabashed about children loving TV. Yeah. 499 00:24:33,594 --> 00:24:36,234 Speaker 2: Now it's time for our recommendations the things we are 500 00:24:36,314 --> 00:24:39,194 Speaker 2: loving Sick this week. Claire as our host of honor 501 00:24:39,314 --> 00:24:40,313 Speaker 2: do you want to go first? 502 00:24:40,514 --> 00:24:44,874 Speaker 3: Yes. So at daycare they are doing a very cute 503 00:24:44,914 --> 00:24:48,033 Speaker 3: activity where the kids have to bring in their favorite 504 00:24:48,034 --> 00:24:50,834 Speaker 3: book from home and then they all read it together, 505 00:24:51,154 --> 00:24:53,554 Speaker 3: very very cute. I'm like, is it ever coming back? 506 00:24:53,754 --> 00:24:57,034 Speaker 3: Like all of that, but it reminded me of Matilda's 507 00:24:57,034 --> 00:25:00,114 Speaker 3: favorite book that we are obsessed with. But I'm also 508 00:25:00,154 --> 00:25:04,434 Speaker 3: recommending it as I'm always asked, like whenever I come 509 00:25:04,474 --> 00:25:07,273 Speaker 3: into the office, people say, oh, I've got to get 510 00:25:07,314 --> 00:25:09,553 Speaker 3: a present for a one year old or two year 511 00:25:09,594 --> 00:25:12,594 Speaker 3: old like kind of like baby toddler, and I've got 512 00:25:12,634 --> 00:25:14,074 Speaker 3: to get a present. I want to get a book. 513 00:25:14,114 --> 00:25:16,674 Speaker 3: What books are we doing? And this is the one 514 00:25:16,674 --> 00:25:19,754 Speaker 3: I always recommend. So it's called paper Dolls. It's written 515 00:25:19,754 --> 00:25:21,234 Speaker 3: by Julia Donaldson. 516 00:25:21,434 --> 00:25:22,074 Speaker 4: I love her. 517 00:25:22,794 --> 00:25:26,553 Speaker 3: So it's actually a few years old. I thought it 518 00:25:26,594 --> 00:25:29,674 Speaker 3: was very recent, but I missed it. So Julia Donaldson 519 00:25:29,834 --> 00:25:32,634 Speaker 3: is the author of the Gruffalo, Room on the Broom, 520 00:25:32,794 --> 00:25:35,714 Speaker 3: Snail on the Way, all the all the classics. She 521 00:25:35,874 --> 00:25:40,474 Speaker 3: is also the auntie or great auntie of Lola Young 522 00:25:41,194 --> 00:25:44,754 Speaker 3: the single And that's just like a fun fact. Thank 523 00:25:44,794 --> 00:25:49,354 Speaker 3: you for that. I heard a funny conversation about where 524 00:25:49,394 --> 00:25:53,754 Speaker 3: the Lola Young Success is nepotism because I've got Julia 525 00:25:53,794 --> 00:25:56,313 Speaker 3: Donaldson and I don't I don't really think so. But 526 00:25:57,274 --> 00:26:01,754 Speaker 3: this book is so cute because Julia Donaldson apparently whenever 527 00:26:01,794 --> 00:26:04,354 Speaker 3: she writes like the Gruffalo and once you know this, 528 00:26:04,434 --> 00:26:07,754 Speaker 3: you see it, she writes it as a song, and 529 00:26:07,794 --> 00:26:09,834 Speaker 3: that's why it might be nepotism. The Lovely Young Thing. 530 00:26:09,914 --> 00:26:13,353 Speaker 3: But anyway, she writes it as a song, and you 531 00:26:13,394 --> 00:26:14,554 Speaker 3: can see all the rhythms. 532 00:26:14,714 --> 00:26:20,474 Speaker 4: That's why it might be. This is not an Apple 533 00:26:20,554 --> 00:26:21,513 Speaker 4: Martin situation. 534 00:26:22,514 --> 00:26:26,114 Speaker 3: It's a few generations. But when I read this with Matilda, 535 00:26:26,314 --> 00:26:28,674 Speaker 3: we've turned the whole thing into a song. She knows 536 00:26:28,714 --> 00:26:32,514 Speaker 3: the entire thing, and it's a really cute story about 537 00:26:33,234 --> 00:26:35,434 Speaker 3: all the things going into the little girl's memory and 538 00:26:35,434 --> 00:26:38,634 Speaker 3: all the things she remembers about her childhood, and they're 539 00:26:38,754 --> 00:26:42,274 Speaker 3: very familiar kind of fixtures of childhood. So any little 540 00:26:42,354 --> 00:26:43,954 Speaker 3: kid who reads it will be able to kind of 541 00:26:44,074 --> 00:26:47,114 Speaker 3: personalize it. But then the other fun thing, we've actually 542 00:26:47,114 --> 00:26:49,593 Speaker 3: made our own paper dolls, which is really good parenting 543 00:26:49,634 --> 00:26:50,874 Speaker 3: for me. Like it's grafts. 544 00:26:51,194 --> 00:26:53,114 Speaker 1: It is sitting in front of the team. 545 00:26:53,274 --> 00:26:57,074 Speaker 3: No no, no, no, not at that time, No, and it's 546 00:26:57,274 --> 00:26:59,474 Speaker 3: just become this whole thing. So that is the book 547 00:26:59,474 --> 00:27:02,034 Speaker 3: Matilda will bring you. That's the book I want to recommend. 548 00:27:02,314 --> 00:27:06,714 Speaker 3: There's also another one called Animal Laophabet and it's the 549 00:27:06,754 --> 00:27:10,154 Speaker 3: cooler like pop up like things coming out of their 550 00:27:10,514 --> 00:27:14,154 Speaker 3: amazingly designed and that's really Donaldson as well. So I 551 00:27:14,314 --> 00:27:15,513 Speaker 3: just all her books. 552 00:27:15,514 --> 00:27:16,314 Speaker 4: She's so clever. 553 00:27:16,474 --> 00:27:19,234 Speaker 5: I actually just read with my kids last night, The 554 00:27:19,354 --> 00:27:23,834 Speaker 5: Highway Rat. Oh yes, yes, yes, just an excellent read. 555 00:27:24,474 --> 00:27:27,474 Speaker 5: And I've recommended on this show before that if your 556 00:27:27,554 --> 00:27:30,954 Speaker 5: kids are school age, this is an elite recommendation. If 557 00:27:30,954 --> 00:27:33,434 Speaker 5: I do say so myself. They get sent home like 558 00:27:33,554 --> 00:27:37,474 Speaker 5: really boring books for phonics, like just teach them how 559 00:27:37,514 --> 00:27:41,674 Speaker 5: to read. But Julia Donaldson has written phonics based learn 560 00:27:41,754 --> 00:27:43,994 Speaker 5: to read books that you can buy in a set. 561 00:27:44,554 --> 00:27:46,914 Speaker 5: They're British, but you can have them shipped over. I 562 00:27:46,914 --> 00:27:49,674 Speaker 5: think we have the technology now and they're just so 563 00:27:49,834 --> 00:27:52,474 Speaker 5: much better. Oh, because she's so that's so interesting that 564 00:27:52,514 --> 00:27:54,354 Speaker 5: she writes some as a song that explains why they 565 00:27:54,394 --> 00:27:56,794 Speaker 5: have such an amazing lilting quality. 566 00:27:56,954 --> 00:27:58,994 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, well, speaking. 567 00:27:58,634 --> 00:28:02,874 Speaker 5: Of singing, my recommendation this week is it's a bit 568 00:28:02,914 --> 00:28:05,354 Speaker 5: of an art house movie. I don't know if you've 569 00:28:05,394 --> 00:28:07,794 Speaker 5: come across it. It's quite neat. I'm a bit of 570 00:28:07,834 --> 00:28:08,474 Speaker 5: a cinema bar. 571 00:28:08,914 --> 00:28:11,313 Speaker 4: Yes, it's called The Sound of Music. 572 00:28:11,634 --> 00:28:12,394 Speaker 1: Oh is that new? 573 00:28:16,234 --> 00:28:17,914 Speaker 4: It came out in nineteen sixty five. 574 00:28:19,154 --> 00:28:19,994 Speaker 1: I think I'm part of it. 575 00:28:20,034 --> 00:28:22,074 Speaker 5: I don't think I'm going to issue spoiler alerts because 576 00:28:22,074 --> 00:28:24,394 Speaker 5: I think if you don't know the plot, yes, it's 577 00:28:24,394 --> 00:28:27,874 Speaker 5: on you, It's on Disney. Why did I decide to 578 00:28:27,914 --> 00:28:32,154 Speaker 5: watch it with my children because I was reminded of 579 00:28:32,194 --> 00:28:34,714 Speaker 5: the power of a movie night when we talked from 580 00:28:34,714 --> 00:28:37,754 Speaker 5: the show about Miranda Carr and how she doesn't let 581 00:28:37,754 --> 00:28:41,554 Speaker 5: her children have any screen time except for occasionally they 582 00:28:41,634 --> 00:28:43,874 Speaker 5: might snuggle up and watch a movie. And for some reason, 583 00:28:43,874 --> 00:28:45,354 Speaker 5: I was thinking of that quote, as I think of 584 00:28:45,394 --> 00:28:47,714 Speaker 5: inane celebrity quotes all the time. For some reason, I 585 00:28:47,754 --> 00:28:49,714 Speaker 5: thought we should snuggle up and watch a movie tonight. 586 00:28:49,754 --> 00:28:53,514 Speaker 5: And obviously the platonic ideal of the snuggle up movie 587 00:28:53,594 --> 00:28:54,354 Speaker 5: is the Sound of Music. 588 00:28:54,594 --> 00:28:55,834 Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say you chose it 589 00:28:55,834 --> 00:28:56,754 Speaker 1: because the dad's hot. 590 00:28:56,914 --> 00:29:00,274 Speaker 4: Yes, he's no Dick fandom. 591 00:29:01,034 --> 00:29:04,194 Speaker 5: As regular listeners to the show, No, Mary Poppins is 592 00:29:04,194 --> 00:29:05,314 Speaker 5: my fifty shades of gray. 593 00:29:05,354 --> 00:29:09,634 Speaker 4: But I found it. I haven't seen it since childhood. 594 00:29:09,714 --> 00:29:11,554 Speaker 5: First of all, a lot of bangers in this one, 595 00:29:11,994 --> 00:29:13,514 Speaker 5: lot so many bangers. 596 00:29:13,554 --> 00:29:18,114 Speaker 3: That soundtrack was my top Spotify songs because Matilda's Matilda 597 00:29:18,154 --> 00:29:26,354 Speaker 3: knows all the words. 598 00:29:23,354 --> 00:29:26,954 Speaker 5: Brings me to cheers. You cannot watch the movie without singing, 599 00:29:26,954 --> 00:29:29,794 Speaker 5: which will annoy your children. And I remember Mom's talked 600 00:29:29,834 --> 00:29:33,114 Speaker 5: when we talked about Mary Poppins, how setting her kids 601 00:29:33,154 --> 00:29:35,514 Speaker 5: down to watch it is really hard because it starts 602 00:29:35,514 --> 00:29:39,234 Speaker 5: with the credits, because you know how whole movies are, 603 00:29:39,754 --> 00:29:42,354 Speaker 5: and they're exceptionally boring, like you're learning about who the 604 00:29:42,394 --> 00:29:44,514 Speaker 5: second production designer is, and your kids like. 605 00:29:44,514 --> 00:29:45,474 Speaker 4: What is this? 606 00:29:45,634 --> 00:29:47,714 Speaker 3: Is it not action? 607 00:29:48,394 --> 00:29:51,314 Speaker 5: But I'm recommending it because A the songs are bangers, 608 00:29:51,354 --> 00:29:55,274 Speaker 5: but b in these complex and difficult times, I found 609 00:29:55,314 --> 00:30:00,154 Speaker 5: it extremely moving, Like I can't stop thinking about it. 610 00:30:00,154 --> 00:30:01,794 Speaker 4: It's such a good movie. 611 00:30:01,794 --> 00:30:04,714 Speaker 5: Like and that the power of music in a time 612 00:30:04,794 --> 00:30:09,154 Speaker 5: of political tumult. I'm just saying, oh beautiful, it's relevant 613 00:30:09,154 --> 00:30:13,154 Speaker 5: to the times. And Julie Andrews, what an absolute icon 614 00:30:13,354 --> 00:30:14,034 Speaker 5: that woman is. 615 00:30:14,154 --> 00:30:16,674 Speaker 1: She really is, Okay, I'm going to rewatch. 616 00:30:16,354 --> 00:30:18,874 Speaker 6: And the villain of the woman the dad was dating, 617 00:30:18,954 --> 00:30:23,594 Speaker 6: Oh she's not really a villain as a kid, and 618 00:30:23,594 --> 00:30:27,394 Speaker 6: then when I watch it, she's just like, I think 619 00:30:27,434 --> 00:30:28,394 Speaker 6: she's living her best life. 620 00:30:28,394 --> 00:30:31,154 Speaker 5: That woman is like sipping champagne in every scene of 621 00:30:31,274 --> 00:30:33,114 Speaker 5: the movie, and it's made it very clear she's not 622 00:30:33,194 --> 00:30:34,634 Speaker 5: interested in children, which. 623 00:30:34,394 --> 00:30:36,434 Speaker 4: I cannot blame her. There are a lot of them 624 00:30:36,434 --> 00:30:37,074 Speaker 4: in that movie. 625 00:30:38,874 --> 00:30:42,634 Speaker 2: Well, my recho this week is something that I kind 626 00:30:42,634 --> 00:30:45,514 Speaker 2: of stumbled upon by accident, but it's really working, which 627 00:30:45,554 --> 00:30:48,554 Speaker 2: is to let your kid record a secret video, which 628 00:30:48,634 --> 00:30:52,154 Speaker 2: sounds bad, So I will explain what I've made by this, 629 00:30:52,834 --> 00:30:55,154 Speaker 2: So you know how like if you've got relatives into 630 00:30:55,154 --> 00:30:56,714 Speaker 2: State or whatever, and you try and get your kid 631 00:30:56,754 --> 00:30:59,314 Speaker 2: to come to the phone and speak on FaceTime and 632 00:30:59,354 --> 00:31:02,274 Speaker 2: they're just like, what are you doing? They're not here, 633 00:31:02,394 --> 00:31:05,074 Speaker 2: I don't care, and they run away, and that is 634 00:31:05,154 --> 00:31:07,554 Speaker 2: embarrassing for you when you want them to be an 635 00:31:07,594 --> 00:31:11,474 Speaker 2: easy child. So my daughter asked me one day, my 636 00:31:11,914 --> 00:31:14,794 Speaker 2: brother and his wife live into State. She loves them, 637 00:31:15,114 --> 00:31:17,194 Speaker 2: but when they're not there, when you're trying to do that, 638 00:31:17,194 --> 00:31:20,354 Speaker 2: that doesn't always go well. And she said about her 639 00:31:20,394 --> 00:31:23,474 Speaker 2: little friend that lives far away now as well, can 640 00:31:23,554 --> 00:31:26,714 Speaker 2: I go to my room and make a video of 641 00:31:26,754 --> 00:31:29,994 Speaker 2: my room for Goldie, her friend, and I said, of 642 00:31:30,034 --> 00:31:31,474 Speaker 2: course she can. That's fine because you know how you 643 00:31:31,474 --> 00:31:33,994 Speaker 2: can just open an iPhone without opening anything else, Like 644 00:31:34,034 --> 00:31:35,914 Speaker 2: you can just go to the camera, they can't get anything. 645 00:31:36,474 --> 00:31:39,474 Speaker 2: She went and recorded a ten minute long video, My 646 00:31:39,714 --> 00:31:43,674 Speaker 2: very quiet child chatted for ten minutes in this video 647 00:31:43,794 --> 00:31:46,834 Speaker 2: and showed her little friend her whole room, and it 648 00:31:46,874 --> 00:31:48,634 Speaker 2: just sparked this idea. I was like, Oh, she can 649 00:31:48,674 --> 00:31:51,234 Speaker 2: do that for her uncle and Annie as well. So 650 00:31:51,354 --> 00:31:53,234 Speaker 2: now she goes and makes little videos. 651 00:31:53,234 --> 00:31:56,394 Speaker 4: This is like MTV cribs. I love it. 652 00:31:56,554 --> 00:31:59,114 Speaker 2: Just tell them about her day without the embarrassment of 653 00:31:59,154 --> 00:32:02,354 Speaker 2: you there like hovering, like being like tell them about 654 00:32:02,394 --> 00:32:05,394 Speaker 2: when you did this, Like they can just do it themselves. 655 00:32:05,394 --> 00:32:07,674 Speaker 1: They feel really cool because they're like hold a phone. 656 00:32:07,674 --> 00:32:10,394 Speaker 1: They never get to do that. And she just loves it. 657 00:32:10,434 --> 00:32:12,674 Speaker 1: And they're the cutest things ever. Like they obviously not secret. 658 00:32:12,714 --> 00:32:14,874 Speaker 1: I watch them. I've watched them multiple times. You can 659 00:32:14,954 --> 00:32:15,994 Speaker 1: choose whether you want. 660 00:32:15,834 --> 00:32:19,154 Speaker 2: To strictly keep them private, but then your family members 661 00:32:19,154 --> 00:32:21,314 Speaker 2: love them or they're you know, your long distance. 662 00:32:20,994 --> 00:32:24,994 Speaker 4: Pro'll call them secret videos to her. Yes, I love that, Yes, So. 663 00:32:25,114 --> 00:32:27,594 Speaker 2: It feels like she's getting to do something really special. 664 00:32:27,634 --> 00:32:29,594 Speaker 2: So I would just recommend, like get them to film 665 00:32:29,634 --> 00:32:30,794 Speaker 2: on what they say. 666 00:32:30,954 --> 00:32:34,794 Speaker 3: And it's also like the kids version of voice noting yes, 667 00:32:34,834 --> 00:32:37,314 Speaker 3: because it's just one way. Yes, it's like, by the way, 668 00:32:37,354 --> 00:32:40,074 Speaker 3: I don't give a crap what you're doing. Yeah, look 669 00:32:40,114 --> 00:32:42,314 Speaker 3: at my bedroom and they don't they don't care. 670 00:32:42,634 --> 00:32:45,154 Speaker 1: I love that, Yeah so much. 671 00:32:45,234 --> 00:32:46,874 Speaker 4: Yeah, great idea. 672 00:32:46,994 --> 00:32:48,554 Speaker 1: Try that. That's my re coach. 673 00:32:49,394 --> 00:32:51,914 Speaker 2: Well that's all we have time for on Parenting Out 674 00:32:51,954 --> 00:32:54,634 Speaker 2: Loud this week. Big thanks to our team, Junior content 675 00:32:54,714 --> 00:32:59,354 Speaker 2: producer Tessa Kotovich, audio producer Leah Porges, our executive producer 676 00:32:59,474 --> 00:33:02,274 Speaker 2: is Sashtanic and the group EP is Ruth to Bine. 677 00:33:02,274 --> 00:33:03,354 Speaker 1: And also thank you to Claire. 678 00:33:03,434 --> 00:33:05,554 Speaker 3: Thanks feeling in this week, Thanks for having me. 679 00:33:05,674 --> 00:33:07,634 Speaker 2: Have a great week and we will be in your 680 00:33:07,634 --> 00:33:08,834 Speaker 2: feed next Saturday morning. 681 00:33:09,154 --> 00:33:11,114 Speaker 1: Bye. 682 00:33:13,594 --> 00:33:13,914 Speaker 4: Mamma. 683 00:33:13,914 --> 00:33:16,874 Speaker 5: Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which 684 00:33:16,914 --> 00:33:18,314 Speaker 5: we have recorded this podcast.