Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mama Mayor acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3: Guys, everyone has a kid's book but me, and I
Speaker 3: think I should have come a children's to.
Speaker 1: Buy you a book like The Very Hungry Caterpillar. I
Speaker 1: actually are you were to write one?
Speaker 3: I think that I should write one because I think
Speaker 3: it has come to my attention that everyone's written children's books.
Speaker 2: So the celebrity children's book is a big, big.
Speaker 3: And if I'm a celebrity, like, why am I spending
Speaker 3: time writing a children's book? I think it's got to
Speaker 3: be a money machine. They must just be pretty, might be.
Speaker 1: I interviewed Aated Nicodemu last week. She's written many. She
Speaker 1: has a whole series called Maya. There's something.
Speaker 2: Maya.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she said, she loves the name Maya and it's
Speaker 1: kind of about it's loosely based on her childhood because
Speaker 1: she was like a theater kid who likes singing and
Speaker 1: dancing and.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and all of that's catered to your attention span.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's like.
Speaker 1: For like seven eight year old Yeah, it's that primary school.
Speaker 2: Well, look at Andy Lee, right, any parent listening to
Speaker 2: this will be triggered by the words do not open
Speaker 2: this book. He do not open this book series, and
Speaker 2: now it's like you can get box sets and merch
Speaker 2: and everything. I listened to an interview with him where
Speaker 2: he said he makes I mean news exactly these words.
Speaker 2: I'm paraphrasing Twillian's ship ton of money. That ship ton.
Speaker 4: I just need to be Andy Lee. But just the
Speaker 4: book needs to be good.
Speaker 1: What should it be about? Well, who's going to review it?
Speaker 1: I think that you think, yeah, I know, you kind
Speaker 1: of think they don't have many words in them. I
Speaker 1: surely I can write them in just half an hour.
Speaker 5: On the world.
Speaker 4: They need to have a rhythm. All about the rhythm,
Speaker 4: pretty picture.
Speaker 2: I want to apologize to any children's book authors who
Speaker 2: are listening to this right now.
Speaker 1: I haven't printed.
Speaker 2: Any money lately. Hello, and welcome to Mama Mire out
Speaker 2: Loud and to our Friday show, you know the Friday show.
Speaker 2: I'm doing a little dance because it's our fun show
Speaker 2: where we take the break from the news cycle and
Speaker 2: we just like have a good time. Oh sorry, and
Speaker 2: we breathe there it'sane. This is my one exhale meditating
Speaker 2: right now today, It's Friday, the twenty seventh of September,
Speaker 2: and I am Holly Waynwright.
Speaker 1: I'm Meya Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens, children's book.
Speaker 2: Author trying that on for size on the show today.
Speaker 2: Imagine being so confident that when someone asks you if
Speaker 2: you're surprised you got offered a big opportunity, you say, no,
Speaker 2: I'm not surprised they were right to choose me. I'm
Speaker 2: going to be brilliant at it. Yeah, no, we need
Speaker 2: We're talking about the female confidence trap. Plus, our weekend
Speaker 2: recommendations include a movie for kids that's really for us,
Speaker 2: a gen X Hollywood memoir, and the previous TV show
Speaker 2: of them all. And someone's been rummaging around in me
Speaker 2: is downstairs area, Jesse's had a skin scare, and I
Speaker 2: am really pissed off about something very silly. It's our
Speaker 2: best and worst of the week, But first me have
Speaker 2: Friedman in capes. You missed it.
Speaker 1: There has been a very interesting hit piece on Harry
Speaker 1: and Meghan.
Speaker 2: But particularly got my hand up Mayor Freeman. When you
Speaker 2: say hit piece, expand.
Speaker 1: A hit piece is like, I mean, it's exactly what
Speaker 1: it sounds like. It's a tacky takedown.
Speaker 2: Written on purpose to hit to hurt.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a not a particularly kind or balanced, a
Speaker 1: bit scurrilous, maybe very negative. And what's interesting about this
Speaker 1: hit piece because Harry and Meghan are not new to
Speaker 1: this is not the first radio when it comes to
Speaker 1: people writing negative things about them. But it's where it
Speaker 1: was published that is raising some eyebrows. It was published
Speaker 1: in the Hollywood Reporter, which is like a it's not
Speaker 1: a tabloid, it's like almost trade press.
Speaker 2: It's like Variety's competitor, isn't it the business of Hollywood?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 2: Serious?
Speaker 1: And it's titled why Hollywood keeps quitting on Harry and Meghan,
Speaker 1: And according to the Hollywood Reporter, it's all about how
Speaker 1: they can't keep staff. There's a reportedly a survivors club
Speaker 1: called the Sussex Survivors Club, and it details some of
Speaker 1: the people who've left their employ including it says Josh Kettler,
Speaker 1: the Santa Barbara based consultant who'd been serving as chief
Speaker 1: of staff to the Duke and Duchess reportedly resigned in
Speaker 1: August after just three months on the job, becoming the
Speaker 1: latest member of the ever expanding Sussex Survivors Club. Everyone's
Speaker 1: terrified of Megan, claimed sources. She belittles people, she doesn't
Speaker 1: take advice. They're both poor decision makers. They change their
Speaker 1: minds frequently. Harry is a very very charming person, no
Speaker 1: heirs at all, but he's very much an enabler and.
Speaker 2: She's just terrible.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, that is bad.
Speaker 2: It's really negative. And there's been that's an unsourced quote, right,
Speaker 2: All of.
Speaker 1: The quotes are unsourced, and it sort of talks about
Speaker 1: all the people that have left working for them, and
Speaker 1: a couple of things that are interesting about this and
Speaker 1: why everybody's talking about it. Firstly, it's not the kind
Speaker 1: of thing that usually happened in that publication, so it's like, well, why,
Speaker 1: what's the reason for this piece? Like who's motivated to
Speaker 1: take down Harry and Meghan because it's not the royal family.
Speaker 1: A lot of their claims about previous bad publicity is
Speaker 1: that it was being sourced by rival palaces, by the
Speaker 1: British media who didn't like them, by racism in the UK,
Speaker 1: by people who didn't like that there was a woman
Speaker 1: of color who'd become a member of the royal family
Speaker 1: and that was kind of their owns. Yeah, their defense, right,
Speaker 1: And so now that it's happened in Hollywood, first of all,
Speaker 1: in whose interest is it to paint them in this
Speaker 1: negative way? And secondly, it paints a picture where the
Speaker 1: common denominator is in fact them and not the royal
Speaker 1: family leaking it or unfair treatment by the press. So
Speaker 1: some people are saying that it's because Hollywood's realized there's
Speaker 1: no more money to be made out of either of them.
Speaker 1: They came to Hollywood or they came to California in America,
Speaker 1: did these big deals. One hundred million dollars at Netflix
Speaker 1: I think another hundred million at Spotify, And apart from
Speaker 1: the documentary that they did on Netflix where they sort
Speaker 1: of just spoke about everything that had happened to them,
Speaker 1: they had a few other projects that went nowhere. The
Speaker 1: big podcast deal they signed with Spotify kind of yielded
Speaker 1: about seven episodes. I think she did her podcast called Archetypes,
Speaker 1: which has now been picked up by another podcast company
Speaker 1: who's going to apparently do another season. But a lot
Speaker 1: of people lost a lot of money on these benches,
Speaker 1: which is not the fault of Harry and Meghan. Like,
Speaker 1: if someone wants to pay you a lot of money
Speaker 1: you don't deliver. I guess it is the fault of them,
Speaker 1: but maybe people overestimated the public's appetite for the things
Speaker 1: that they.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's true that they haven't made a
Speaker 2: lot of people a lot of money in books.
Speaker 1: They have.
Speaker 2: Even if the only thing they ever make for Netflix
Speaker 2: was that twenty five million piece documentary, it was the
Speaker 2: highest rating thing that Netflix has done in twenty million years.
Speaker 2: They would have made that back in spades, which just
Speaker 2: made a docco series for them that's about Polo. The
Speaker 2: try to do like a drive to survive for Polo,
Speaker 2: you know, like make it sexy reality TV stuff. She's
Speaker 2: got a lifestyle show coming out in January February, which
Speaker 2: is supposed to be very Martha Stuart, very goofy, very
Speaker 2: like cooking, and that's not only cooking, like cooking lifestyle homes,
Speaker 2: which will be very pervy because it'll be in their houses.
Speaker 2: It'll be Megan. I think it's not true that they're
Speaker 2: not going to make anyone. So why, Holly, why, what's.
Speaker 3: Your read on why this comes out? I don't think
Speaker 3: they had the power that they might have had when
Speaker 3: they first entered Hollywood, But what would be the motivation
Speaker 3: of someone to either be that source or for them
Speaker 3: to write that.
Speaker 2: Well, one way of looking at this is where this
Speaker 2: smokes fire, right, which is that if the same story
Speaker 2: keeps coming out over and over again, there's probably some
Speaker 2: truth to it. But then also, there are plenty of
Speaker 2: people in Hollywood and Silicon Valley and all those are
Speaker 2: the places who would be difficult in inverted commas to
Speaker 2: work for, right, But not all of them are as
Speaker 2: high profile and as exciting to sell stories onto the
Speaker 2: tabloids as Megan and Harry. But I'm sure as an
Speaker 2: element of truth there. It also smacks a little bit
Speaker 2: to me that they're outsiders in that world, like Bill Simmons,
Speaker 2: who is a guy who was involved in their deals
Speaker 2: and in their ideation sessions, and he was he called
Speaker 2: them grifters, and he also made some really disparaging comments
Speaker 2: about Harry's ideas and how they were all terrible and
Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah blah. It is very interesting that
Speaker 2: this is in the Hollywood Reporter, But there's probably a
Speaker 2: distaste in Hollywood for people like Harry and Meghan who
Speaker 2: come in charging a shitload of money, and then they
Speaker 2: have the temerity to want input on what they're making.
Speaker 1: So you have to say, well, who's motivated. Someone's obviously
Speaker 1: clearly pissed off with them, right and either bitter that
Speaker 1: they spent their money or took their jobs or whatever.
Speaker 1: So you can see that it's kind of insulting to
Speaker 1: people who are actual producers scriptwriters. And also if.
Speaker 2: You're making that stuff, you want the talent to do
Speaker 2: what they're told, right, Like basically, if you're a produce,
Speaker 2: you want the talent to like, we know how to
Speaker 2: make a podcast, you just say the words we want
Speaker 2: you to say, we know how to make a show,
Speaker 2: make the shows we want to make. Harry and Meghan
Speaker 2: are very clearly not interested in doing.
Speaker 1: But based on what I mean, Harry's never had a
Speaker 1: job before apart from when he was in the military.
Speaker 1: Meghan know how done stuff. But I think that Hollywood
Speaker 1: feels a bit silly that they over indexed on how
Speaker 1: interested the public would be about Harry and Meghan talking
Speaker 1: about anything other than Harry and Meghan. And once that
Speaker 1: story was finished, because there's only so many times you
Speaker 1: can say we were treated badly and they've got no
Speaker 1: more story to tell, like they used it all up
Speaker 1: in his book and in the documentary, and so then
Speaker 1: when he's made things for like the Invictors Games. She
Speaker 1: did write a children's book, but then she wanted to
Speaker 1: do an animated show about a little girl called Pearl.
Speaker 1: No one's really interested in the stuff that they make.
Speaker 4: I want to know.
Speaker 3: I was listening to a podcast this week about what
Speaker 3: would be the advisable next move.
Speaker 2: Harry needs to make a Princess to Hanna documentary. Oh,
Speaker 2: that's what he should do. If I was advising, that
Speaker 2: would be amazing. Yeah, in fact, any royal documentary would
Speaker 2: be great, but about his mother would be particularly amazing.
Speaker 4: That's a great idea.
Speaker 2: But you know what, even though I sympathize with your point,
Speaker 2: mea like who are they? But I also think this
Speaker 2: story isn't over, Like I will be watching Megan's lifestyle show.
Speaker 3: Well about Megan's lifestyle show, because what this podcast was
Speaker 3: saying was that she needs to go into They had
Speaker 3: two options. The first was skincare and the second was alcohol,
Speaker 3: specifically Gin because they said that it's very male dominated
Speaker 3: at the moment.
Speaker 1: Where the margins are the beauty category and the alcohol category.
Speaker 2: Are not known for, not just jam, you guys, your
Speaker 2: failure of imagination.
Speaker 1: People.
Speaker 2: It's a massive lifestyle brand. We've got te tails, we've
Speaker 2: got yoga mats, we've got cookware, we've got everything that's
Speaker 2: gonna sell. It's freaking socks off.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it will.
Speaker 2: Margin.
Speaker 1: No, the margins on most things are really smart.
Speaker 4: Understand marginal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, the margin means you produce it for one dollar,
Speaker 1: you sell it for three dollars. The margin is two dollars.
Speaker 1: Now on Jam, you produce jam for a dollar, you
Speaker 1: can't sell it for one hundred dollars.
Speaker 2: Maybe you can try if I get invited into Megan's kitchen.
Speaker 2: It's the same with Gwyneth, It's the same with any
Speaker 2: of those very aspiate because that's where she's positioning herself right,
Speaker 2: aspirational lifestyle brand. That's why she's called it Montecido blah blah.
Speaker 2: She's drifting around with her apple orchard and all that shit,
Speaker 2: their chickens and everything. People love that.
Speaker 4: I'd buy a serum. I would absolutely buy it. I
Speaker 4: would because she's got beautiful.
Speaker 1: What's wrong with being? What's wrong with being?
Speaker 2: What's wrong with being?
Speaker 6: Confident?
Speaker 3: A documentary, pulled, a bold career move, and a declaration.
Speaker 4: Of absolute self belief. I want to talk about confidence.
Speaker 3: Three things have happened in recent weeks that I am
Speaker 3: going to attempt to tie in an awkward not that
Speaker 3: doesn't quite fit. First, they finished filming a documentary about Oprah.
Speaker 1: Who are they?
Speaker 4: They are tying to make it?
Speaker 3: Well, actually as Apple, which six degrees of separation. I'm
Speaker 3: sure that it somehow gets back to Harry and Megan,
Speaker 3: I mean Oprah, Harry and Meghan.
Speaker 1: There we go.
Speaker 3: Anyway, It doesn't matter who made it, Maya, because you're
Speaker 3: never going to say it.
Speaker 4: It's not for you.
Speaker 3: Let me explain filmmaker Kevin McDonald. He is Academy Award
Speaker 3: winning He did Touching the Void and he also did
Speaker 3: the Whitney Houston documentary Big Deal.
Speaker 4: Big Deal.
Speaker 3: He was tasked with creating a documentary about Oprah's life
Speaker 3: to be broadcast on Apple TV.
Speaker 4: There was just one problem.
Speaker 3: When it was finished, Oprah didn't like it, so she
Speaker 3: paid the money back to Apple and basically now owns
Speaker 3: the rights and there's no plans for release.
Speaker 1: So was she involved as like a producer or something?
Speaker 1: It was made with her cooperation.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I imagine it would be a bit like Beckham.
Speaker 2: Why didn't you like it?
Speaker 4: Well, this is what we need to know.
Speaker 1: What do you think could be a reason?
Speaker 4: Secrets? I think?
Speaker 3: Look, this is my theory is that when you do Beckham,
Speaker 3: when you do Beckham, it better be a work of propaganda.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: The problem with this Kevin McDonald character is I worry
Speaker 3: he's a real filmmaker, in which case he might have
Speaker 3: actually just made a real documentary about Oprah where it's
Speaker 3: not just she's a perfect saint. Maybe it's a complex.
Speaker 1: Your inattoria Beckham. Now I don't know if it was
Speaker 1: the same filmmaker that did David.
Speaker 2: Do you get from Succession?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I don't know. If it's Hugoys back for another round,
Speaker 1: but I think that's going to be interesting too.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. You know that Beckham documentary has been
Speaker 2: one of their biggest hits.
Speaker 1: Twice.
Speaker 2: It has made the.
Speaker 4: Beckham real documentary.
Speaker 2: It has made the Beckham super famous in America.
Speaker 1: Like, did he have creative control?
Speaker 3: Okay, exactly right, So they do have creative control. Anyway,
Speaker 3: Oprah's gone, I'm the boss here and I'm putting this
Speaker 3: on the shelf because I don't want you to broadcast
Speaker 3: it now.
Speaker 1: Not the first time she's done that. She's done that
Speaker 1: with another sh where she said I'm not.
Speaker 2: You have to be really rich to be able to
Speaker 2: do that.
Speaker 4: You have to be very powerful.
Speaker 3: Then there's a little lady named Katie Perry. She's performing
Speaker 3: at the AFL Grand Final this weekend. Mom's Play of Air,
Speaker 3: and there have been numerous reports about an awkward back
Speaker 3: and forth between Perry and the AFL in regards to
Speaker 3: what songs she will play. The AFL requested she only
Speaker 3: perform hits from her back catalog, for example.
Speaker 7: Firework, while her papers to Girl Yes, Friday Night Yes,
Speaker 7: while her people wanted at least two of the five
Speaker 7: songs to be from her new album like It's.
Speaker 1: A Woman's World. Yes, I get that.
Speaker 3: I was reading some analysis from a footy journalist who
Speaker 3: said she strikes me as someone who would push back.
Speaker 3: She would be a bit of trouble. You tell me
Speaker 3: to do A and I'll do B. That kind of thing, yep,
Speaker 3: in the end, a.
Speaker 2: Bit of trouble.
Speaker 1: Like every artist would negotiate this right, Like so, Kylie
Speaker 1: Minogues just announced a world tour and I'm like, I've
Speaker 1: been to a lot of Kylie concerts for decades. I
Speaker 1: don't want to go and hear her new music. I
Speaker 1: don't want to hear I mean, I don't mind hearing Pada,
Speaker 1: but I don't want to hear anything else. I only
Speaker 1: want to hear the old bangers, and she won't play
Speaker 1: the old bangers, and that's frustrating.
Speaker 2: That's every artist ever.
Speaker 3: The compromise that's been because she's doing it, not because
Speaker 3: she wants to sing Firework again.
Speaker 4: She wants to promote a new album.
Speaker 2: Duh.
Speaker 3: So she has compromised and she's going to sing one
Speaker 3: new song and four classics.
Speaker 2: She'll sing the new song just when everyone goes to
Speaker 2: make their tea because it's the halftime show.
Speaker 1: What do you think the new song willbey woman's world?
Speaker 1: Or she's given up on that?
Speaker 2: Hope it is that because I really want her to
Speaker 2: have that like petrol pump in a butt thing that
Speaker 2: would be so fun on that in fact, that the
Speaker 2: AFL Grand Final would really it would be fun.
Speaker 4: I'd enjoy that. I think it'd be a vibe.
Speaker 3: Then there's comedian Niki Glazer, who was asked to host
Speaker 3: the Golden Globes and speaking to the Hollywood Reporter, here's
Speaker 3: what she said.
Speaker 6: Oh, I thought they made a good decision because I
Speaker 6: am just I know what to do to make it great.
Speaker 6: I know the amount of work that goes into it.
Speaker 6: I take it very seriously the job at hand. I
Speaker 6: think I can strike the right tone of making fun
Speaker 6: of Hollywood while while also just completely being sycophanic over
Speaker 6: it and being like I want you to like me,
Speaker 6: but also like, what are we doing here.
Speaker 3: Stacy Hicks, who's one of the hosts of our parenting
Speaker 3: podcast This Glorious Mess, she sent around this video and
Speaker 3: she said, I don't think I've ever heard a woman
Speaker 3: speak like that about her career and her ability to
Speaker 3: do it. And the comments we're all commending Nicki Glazer
Speaker 3: on her confidence, with one saying this is how you
Speaker 3: should all pump yourself up for a job interview. It's
Speaker 3: the opposite to imposter syndrome. And in fact, all three
Speaker 3: women are doing exactly what we tell women to do.
Speaker 3: To strive to set your boundaries, to back yourself. You
Speaker 3: deserve a seat at the table. You should say no.
Speaker 3: I want to know do you think there has been
Speaker 3: a shift and is this what confidence looks like. And
Speaker 3: if so, are we totally completely comfortable with it?
Speaker 4: Maya.
Speaker 1: I think that it's very American what she said, and
Speaker 1: I know that this is something that Australians often struggle
Speaker 1: with when they go and try and work in the US,
Speaker 1: because Australia is all about to poppy syndrome, self deprecation,
Speaker 1: don't be too up yourself, don't be too big for you, boots.
Speaker 1: I think Britain's prettyvil same, right, and I think we
Speaker 1: learned that from our British colonizes. In America, it's all
Speaker 1: fig jam, which is fuck, I'm good, just ask me.
Speaker 1: And if you go over and try that Aussie stick
Speaker 1: in America, it doesn't work. If you're just like, oh really,
Speaker 1: oh no, gosh, I can't believe they chose me like
Speaker 1: everyone else must have been busy, ha ha. They're just like,
Speaker 1: what's wrong with you? Like you look at Donald Trump people,
Speaker 1: Confidence is contagious. Confidence is self affirming in America, whereas
Speaker 1: in Australia we're very suspicious of it from men or
Speaker 1: from women, but particularly from women. And I think that
Speaker 1: you know, when you look at the women who are
Speaker 1: derided in Hollywood, particularly or in just the public eye.
Speaker 2: They're always sort.
Speaker 1: Of canceled for very small things like what did Megan
Speaker 1: Markle do we just spoke about her a minute ago.
Speaker 1: Oh maybe she's essentially she's she's the criticism of her
Speaker 1: some stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she had the temerity to complain.
Speaker 1: Ellen DeGeneres is in the new cycle at the moment,
Speaker 1: you know, having a comeback, and will people give her
Speaker 1: a second chance? It's like a second chance from what
Speaker 1: because she wasn't incredibly friendly and didn't ask the three
Speaker 1: hundred staff how their weekend was some days and she
Speaker 1: was castigated for being mean. And then you look at
Speaker 1: the men that are canceled. It's like p Diddy e
Speaker 1: On Musk is still going strong and he's vile. So
Speaker 1: what men can get away with versus what women can
Speaker 1: get away with assertiveness? We know all of this. And
Speaker 1: that's why Kamala Harris has had such a tricky needle
Speaker 1: to thread. Looking capable and confident enough to be a
Speaker 1: female president because there hasn't ever been one, but also
Speaker 1: not too much of a bull terror and too emasculating
Speaker 1: because men don't like that.
Speaker 3: Do you relate at all to the way that Nicki
Speaker 3: Glazer talks about it.
Speaker 4: I mean she's oh my.
Speaker 3: God, no, she's not twenty two. She's been doing it
Speaker 3: for a while. She what she's good, actually knows she's
Speaker 3: gonna work hard.
Speaker 2: Like I absolutely love it, But do I relate to it.
Speaker 2: Absolutely not, like I not even a little bit. It's
Speaker 2: really interesting because as I get older, and I think
Speaker 2: Mia said this before, my confidence in some areas has grown,
Speaker 2: Like I'm less likely to feel like I don't belong
Speaker 2: in a room, you know, where decisions are being made,
Speaker 2: or where important conversations we had, or to interview certain
Speaker 2: people or whatever. Much more confident in that kind of
Speaker 2: space because I feel like I've earned my right to
Speaker 2: be there. But that's because that's true, I haven't my
Speaker 2: right to be there right Like, over time, I've built
Speaker 2: up my experience. I do know shit, so I can
Speaker 2: be confident in that space. But then in other areas,
Speaker 2: I still feel very under confident. And it's interesting because
Speaker 2: I really admire this, But then I'm very suspicious of
Speaker 2: people who appear to have no self doubt, and I'm
Speaker 2: not attracted to it like I do in men or women,
Speaker 2: people generally speaking, who appear to have no self doubt
Speaker 2: never question themselves, never wonder why they're doing what they're doing,
Speaker 2: are generally unappealing to me. I find an element of
Speaker 2: self doubt and vulnerability very humanizing and I like it.
Speaker 1: So it's a difficult balance, but I'm kind of forced
Speaker 1: to perform that, whereas men are discouraged from performing that.
Speaker 2: I hate it, and men like arrogant men to me
Speaker 2: are immediately unappealing in every way, whether it's me watching
Speaker 2: their TV shows, or whether it's me working with them,
Speaker 2: or whether it's me being friends with them. Like, arrogant
Speaker 2: men are my least favorite genre of human because there's
Speaker 2: nothing interesting about a person who never questions themselves.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's no question in yourself.
Speaker 3: But I reckon there would be a lot of people
Speaker 3: listening who know they're really good at their jobs. Ye,
Speaker 3: who know that they're good mums, or that they're really
Speaker 3: good friends, or that they're really good at something.
Speaker 2: And and confidence is different though, right, And that's why
Speaker 2: fake it till you make it is tricky.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know if I totally agree with that.
Speaker 3: I was reading an article in The Guardian about someone
Speaker 3: who who said, I think that's too much of a
Speaker 3: focus on the word confidence and thinking that you need
Speaker 3: to feel confident before actually doing anything, where it's the inverse.
Speaker 3: In order to feel confident, you've got to do the thing.
Speaker 2: So I think that's true.
Speaker 3: Adam Grant, he is a social social psychologist, and he
Speaker 3: talked about diving, like in college he was almost a
Speaker 3: professional diver, and he would go to the end of
Speaker 3: the diving board and he'd feel terrified and he'd be like,
Speaker 3: I can't dive because I don't feel confident yet with
Speaker 3: the dive. And his coach would say to him, that's
Speaker 3: why you do the dive, like you do it over
Speaker 3: and over again until you get the confidence.
Speaker 4: The confidence doesn't confessed.
Speaker 1: So confidence is something you have to building, you just
Speaker 1: wake up with.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So I think that there's this whole industry based on
Speaker 3: capitalizing on women's lack of confidence, particularly young women's lack
Speaker 3: of confidence. And they will say your book and a
Speaker 3: mantra and a fancy talk and you know, tell you
Speaker 3: that they can fill you with confidence. So I think
Speaker 3: that we're confused because there are a lot of gurus
Speaker 3: that are trying to imbue women with confidence rather than
Speaker 3: getting them to.
Speaker 4: Do the thing.
Speaker 3: And I don't think anyone ever sits down with Richard
Speaker 3: Branson and asks him where he gets his confidence from.
Speaker 3: I think it's a self fulfilling thing. We're just obsessed's
Speaker 3: I like that.
Speaker 1: But then I've found I've had two people in my life,
Speaker 1: neither of them know me very well, but I have
Speaker 1: both said just by listening to the pod, it sounds
Speaker 1: like I've lost my confidence on the show, which I
Speaker 1: thought about a lot. And one woman I just met
Speaker 1: her earlier in the week when we were doing upfronts
Speaker 1: in Melbourne, and she said, I feel like I can
Speaker 1: hear you hesitating and I can hear you overthinking and
Speaker 1: holding back on the show sometimes. And she said, I'm
Speaker 1: sure that's because you've been piled on and you're worried
Speaker 1: about that. And I was like, Oh, that's so interesting.
Speaker 2: Isn't that good? Like in a way because back to
Speaker 2: the thing about where the confidence is just always a
Speaker 2: really positive trait. If I sit here on the show
Speaker 2: and feel very confident in all my opinions about all
Speaker 2: the things all the time, including things I don't really
Speaker 2: know a lot about, that's not a good thing.
Speaker 1: No, you're right, and I used to be that. So
Speaker 1: we talk about strong opinions loosely held. So I'm still
Speaker 1: confident with my opinions, but I'm also completely prepared to
Speaker 1: change them as I learn more or change my mind.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's confidence or just getting older.
Speaker 2: And I think that's wisdom.
Speaker 1: Do you.
Speaker 3: I Actually that's funny you say that, because there was
Speaker 3: part of what Nikki said that I related to. When
Speaker 3: I heard her say that, I thought, if I was
Speaker 3: given a massive opportunity.
Speaker 4: If they asked you to host them, extu me to
Speaker 4: host the logis And they said, Jesse w wee host logies.
Speaker 3: Sitting in my own pa, famous children's book author, famous
Speaker 3: children's books. You've written this great children's book that's been
Speaker 3: made into a show. Host to logis, I'd be like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I'll do a good job of that. Like that would
Speaker 3: be my first response. And the reason is not because
Speaker 3: I have internal self confidence. It's not because I think
Speaker 3: I'm innately incredible at anything. It's that I know I'll
Speaker 3: work really hard. Yeah, So my faith is in my
Speaker 3: process that you'll be prepared, that I'll be prepared exactly right,
Speaker 3: that if I'm given enough time, if I was told
Speaker 3: I was doing it tomorrow, I would freak. But if
Speaker 3: I knew I was given enough time, it's something that
Speaker 3: I've been honing or practicing for years, like talking, then
Speaker 3: I would have a very Semario.
Speaker 1: It's based on experience, Like confidence is back to what
Speaker 1: you were just saying. Confidence is based on experience that
Speaker 1: you've been thrown a lot of things that you didn't
Speaker 1: think that you would necessarily be able to do, from
Speaker 1: doing this show to going on live TV to speaking
Speaker 1: it writers festivals and all of these things. And because
Speaker 1: you've prepared each time, you can objectively say that you
Speaker 1: did a good job. And also people around you have
Speaker 1: said that you've done a good job, so there's been
Speaker 1: no objective marker that you haven't done a good job.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I remember speaking to Jane Harper once about she's written
Speaker 3: maybe five books, all of which are brilliant, and she
Speaker 3: was like, a lot of authors won't tell you that
Speaker 3: it gets easier, and for some it doesn't. Some for me,
Speaker 3: I know authors who you know. I got to book
Speaker 3: twenty one and it was unpublishable. But she's like, no,
Speaker 3: it gets easier because you know what you're doing. And
Speaker 3: that was a quiet confidence that I respected. But I
Speaker 3: think that it's not something that a lot of women
Speaker 3: are willing to say out loud.
Speaker 2: But also that's very much born of enormous success, right, like,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, Because I was thinking about the different areas
Speaker 2: of life that I have confidence in and don't, and
Speaker 2: writing is one that I definitely still don't because to me,
Speaker 2: the bar is so impossibly high, like the amount of
Speaker 2: work out there and the amount of different kinds of
Speaker 2: incredible writers and the different levels of success and all
Speaker 2: that stuff, like I don't feel like I have yet
Speaker 2: written a thing that is, you know, brilliant.
Speaker 1: I feel that way about parenting, Oh my.
Speaker 2: God, and parenting speaking about non professional things all the time,
Speaker 2: question my ability, my instincts, my confidence. Have I done
Speaker 2: it right?
Speaker 1: Haven't I? And when you said, Jesse earlier about you know,
Speaker 1: some people like, yeah, I'm a great mother. I don't
Speaker 1: know anyone who says that.
Speaker 3: I had someone say it to me once real, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: and I really really respected it.
Speaker 4: She said to me.
Speaker 3: It's the only area of my life where I feel
Speaker 3: like I know what I'm doing.
Speaker 2: And God, we all need some areas of our lives
Speaker 2: well we feel and see, this is one of the
Speaker 2: things I think about. We talk all the time about
Speaker 2: like you know what you lean into and what you
Speaker 2: lean out of. You will instinctively lean into the things
Speaker 2: that you feel like you're good at, right because it
Speaker 2: gives you more self confidence and more and it reaffirms it,
Speaker 2: and then you get better at it. And it's a circle.
Speaker 2: And so if you're feeling like work is giving you
Speaker 2: a lot, but your home life's a shit show at
Speaker 2: the moment, for whatever, you will lean into work, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, rather than what you should do,
Speaker 2: which is the other way around.
Speaker 1: What interests me also is in certain careers it's the
Speaker 1: law of diminishing returns, like you'll get better at something
Speaker 1: and more confident. And then if you look at sport
Speaker 1: and modeling for example, and even acting, with acting, you
Speaker 1: can get technically better and better and more experienced, and
Speaker 1: you should get more confident. For women, the whole overlay
Speaker 1: on that is how they look, and then how that
Speaker 1: tends to go backwards. And then with sport and modeling,
Speaker 1: of course, you do get to a point where you've
Speaker 1: peaked and you do get worse, so you do lose confidence.
Speaker 1: And I found that, you know, interviewing, for example, I've
Speaker 1: been doing no filter for almost ten years, and I
Speaker 1: know that I'm really good at I know I'm a
Speaker 1: really really good interviewer. But I've had some experiences this
Speaker 1: year where I've done some really bad interviews and I
Speaker 1: found that really interesting because I sort of have lost
Speaker 1: confidence and in a way, that's made me more interested
Speaker 1: in it. Yeah, because it's not I can't phone it in,
Speaker 1: even though I know I'm really good at it, I
Speaker 1: can still fuck it up, even after all this time.
Speaker 1: So there's no guarantees.
Speaker 2: So here's the interesting thing. We've all just said that
Speaker 2: there are things that we feel like we're good at,
Speaker 2: and there are things we feel we're not necessarily good at.
Speaker 2: But a lot of people are very uncomfortable hearing a
Speaker 2: woman admits she's good at anything. There will be some
Speaker 2: people who just heard you say I know I'm a
Speaker 2: really good interviewer, or heard me say I know I've
Speaker 2: earned my place here, or you say I know I
Speaker 2: could host the logans. I know I'm misrepresenting you, I
Speaker 2: know that isn't what you said. I've irritating where it
Speaker 2: will annoy them and they will literally now be looking
Speaker 2: at their phones and going, fuck you, show yourself, who
Speaker 2: do you think she is. And that's interesting to look
Speaker 2: at because we tell people like all the time, back yourself,
Speaker 2: back yourself, back yourself, but actually hearing people back themselves
Speaker 2: is really still jarring.
Speaker 1: Do you know what makes me real is when I'm
Speaker 1: looking at reels on Instagram and there are people, not
Speaker 1: all young people, but people who are very convicted in
Speaker 1: their opinions and are very shouty about what they think,
Speaker 1: as if there there's no even.
Speaker 2: Possibility of a shade of gray.
Speaker 1: They're just so righteous in their belief and I find
Speaker 1: that really repellent. And I don't know whether I'm envious
Speaker 1: at how easy it must be to look at the
Speaker 1: world in black and white, but whether I'm like, you're
Speaker 1: a dick.
Speaker 3: Because I think that's idealism and I reckon that as
Speaker 3: you dogmatic as well. Yeah, which the world needs idealism
Speaker 3: and needs young people who see the world as black
Speaker 3: and white, who have whether it's a little bit of
Speaker 3: naivety or whatever, I do think that the world requires that,
Speaker 3: But I can see how it can be irritating when
Speaker 3: you've had more experiences and you go the world.
Speaker 1: Actually find vulnerability more interesting.
Speaker 2: So generally speaking, I find vulnerability more interesting, and questioning
Speaker 2: things more interesting, and so I think this, But then
Speaker 2: I heard that, and I think that, Like, I find
Speaker 2: that more interesting.
Speaker 1: People who are over confident tend to not be.
Speaker 4: Curious, Yeah, and curious.
Speaker 3: The people I know with the most self belief are
Speaker 3: the least successful, and by that I mean they have
Speaker 3: not achieved their goals. There is something about.
Speaker 2: Like, really, I thought it was the other way around.
Speaker 4: No, No, there are people I know that are so.
Speaker 3: Consumed by self belief that they never finish a project
Speaker 3: because it's like they have nothing to prove.
Speaker 1: Oh really, Yeah, I know that procrastination can be a
Speaker 1: form of perfection is and also fear.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just find people who are really confident to be
Speaker 1: really boring because they're not open. They've made up their mind.
Speaker 1: The garage doors come down, and they will not be
Speaker 1: countenancing any new opinions at this stage. Thank you, the
Speaker 1: kitchen's closed.
Speaker 2: Just rounding back to Oprah and Katie, Yeah, because that's
Speaker 2: where we started. They are women who have asked for
Speaker 2: things or made decisions that pissed other people off, like
Speaker 2: Katie Perry saying no, I won't just be a performing
Speaker 2: seal if I'm coming all the way to Australian performing
Speaker 2: I'm going to try and sell my new album, and
Speaker 2: Oprah saying I know you've all worked very hard on this,
Speaker 2: but it's my name, my brand, and I'm not doing it.
Speaker 2: And people just don't like women asking for things.
Speaker 3: I wondered if there was an element of Katy Perry.
Speaker 3: We've talked before about tryhards and I don't mean that
Speaker 3: as like in any sort of malicious way, but women's striving,
Speaker 3: women's striving and how uncomfortable we are with it, and
Speaker 3: what Katie Perry has done is I'm going to throw
Speaker 3: everything at this second act, this new wind with my career,
Speaker 3: and it has objectively worked. The album has been panned critically,
Speaker 3: like reviewers really don't like it. It's not selling, but
Speaker 3: there is a glee in watching women try really hard
Speaker 3: at something and fail.
Speaker 4: I think I got the.
Speaker 7: Meud.
Speaker 1: It's Friday, so we want to help set up your
Speaker 1: weekend with our best recommendations of things to watch, see,
Speaker 1: read by eat, Do Holly tell me.
Speaker 2: I'm so delighted with my recommendation this week because on
Speaker 2: the weekend, but I know I'm very confident in my
Speaker 2: recommendation today, particularly for anyone my children. I spent the
Speaker 2: weekend with Billy. Brent and Matilda were away for different reasons.
Speaker 2: He was so excited to go and see this movie
Speaker 2: because he's read the books and this movie is called
Speaker 2: The Wild Robot and it's a kids movie and it's
Speaker 2: an animated movie. And any parent who takes their kids
Speaker 2: to go see animated movies sometimes you're like, oh my god.
Speaker 1: Can you just look at your phone?
Speaker 3: Well it rude, you could, but at what age can
Speaker 3: you leave them in the cinema and just go watch
Speaker 3: another movie?
Speaker 4: Oh, like Billy's Well, you could do that.
Speaker 2: But the whole reason he's excited is to share the experience. Jesse. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: that's why parents freaking love good animation. And there is
Speaker 2: lots of it. Right, That's what the whole point of Pixar, Right,
Speaker 2: the whole point of it. This isn't Pixar anyway, but
Speaker 2: The Wild Robot is one of the most beautiful films,
Speaker 2: kids films, adult films, any kind of films I have
Speaker 2: seen in so long. Very briefly, it is based on
Speaker 2: the idea of this robot. She's like an AI assistant
Speaker 2: and she's being delivered somewhere and she has a ship
Speaker 2: WRECKX like castaway, and she ends up on an island
Speaker 2: all the wild animals and stuff, and she says, anyway,
Speaker 2: it's so good. Anyway, Lapeita, and Yongou plays the robot
Speaker 2: her voice, she's so freaking good. Pedro Pascal plays one
Speaker 2: of the other characters. But anyway, the thing that this
Speaker 2: movie is so beautiful. I read this headline in Vulture
Speaker 2: that was so true. It's like the wild robot will
Speaker 2: ruin you. And it's tears so beautiful to look at.
Speaker 2: It's been made like a painting. It's got this beautiful
Speaker 2: slow pace but not like boring, but this beautiful pace
Speaker 2: to it. But most of all, it's the story of
Speaker 2: this robot who inadvertently manages to kill a whole load
Speaker 2: of geese and then find an egg, and that when
Speaker 2: the egg pops out, it imprints on her because you
Speaker 2: know that's what babybirds do, and then the robot has
Speaker 2: to raise this baby bird.
Speaker 1: But she's got.
Speaker 4: Anything to that baby bird. I am absolutely done.
Speaker 2: Hello gostlings in print on the first thing they see,
Speaker 2: which would be you frei innother.
Speaker 4: Now I do not have the programming, No one does.
Speaker 2: He needs to swim and fly.
Speaker 1: Swimming's easy.
Speaker 3: I can teach him the way my mom tout knee swim.
Speaker 2: She is not maternal, she has no feelings. She's a
Speaker 2: robot right exactly. And the thing is, it's got all
Speaker 2: these beautiful things say about motherhood, particularly for those of
Speaker 2: us who maybe were worried we weren't going to be
Speaker 2: good at it or it didn't necessarily come natural. I've
Speaker 2: always amazed and in awe of people who are like
Speaker 2: I always knew and I was going to be a
Speaker 2: great mom and maternal. I'm not a born nurturer, nor
Speaker 2: is my robot friend.
Speaker 4: Ros you're over relating to the robot.
Speaker 2: Yes, but it's so beautiful and then it's all about
Speaker 2: like the journey, and I can't recommend it more. It's funny,
Speaker 2: it's clever, it's beautiful to look at. It's called The
Speaker 2: Wild Robot. And I cried.
Speaker 1: There's a film that we are all going to go
Speaker 1: and see in a week or so, The Substance, with
Speaker 1: Demi Moour and Margaret Quali, and it's all about a
Speaker 1: woman who takes a substance to make her younger. And
Speaker 1: I was listening to an interview with Demi Moour, who's
Speaker 1: on the publicity trail. She's in her early sixties now,
Speaker 1: which you wouldn't know if you saw a picture of her.
Speaker 1: I know, that's a whole other conversation. But I was
Speaker 1: listening to this interview that the New York Times did
Speaker 1: with her, and she was talking about how she's no
Speaker 1: longer worried about the male gaze, which if you've seen
Speaker 1: a picture of her lately, that's an interesting thing for
Speaker 1: her to say, because she is very male gazy. Anyway,
Speaker 1: father about this, but I was interested in the contradiction. Anyway,
Speaker 1: she mentioned a memoir that she'd written, and I didn't
Speaker 1: realize that she'd written a memoir, but it was about
Speaker 1: five years ago, maybe a little bit longer. So I
Speaker 1: downloaded it as an audiobook, and I was traveling over
Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks and I've been listening to it.
Speaker 2: Because she narrate it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but she speaks a little bit slowly, So
Speaker 1: I made it one point two to five speed, so
Speaker 1: it's to me, but a little let me drawly. I
Speaker 1: made it, and it was so interesting. Now I understand.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm very well positioned to go and
Speaker 1: see the substance and to understand to me more a
Speaker 1: lot more. I mean, she was in the famous movies
Speaker 1: like Sonelmo's Fire About last Night Ghost, really iconic in
Speaker 1: the eighties, and.
Speaker 2: A substances fiction correct, and that she's it's horror.
Speaker 1: No, I understand that, but it's very you know, there's
Speaker 1: Oscar talk around it, because it's about this idea of
Speaker 1: this aging celebrity who's offered the chance to wind back
Speaker 1: time and look young in her aging body after she's
Speaker 1: told that she's fired from her job because no one
Speaker 1: wants to look at it. I think in the movie
Speaker 1: she's in her early fifties. And so I just learned
Speaker 1: so much about I mean, she's had this very interesting life,
Speaker 1: married to Bruce Willis, Ashton Kutcher, three daughters, substance abuse,
Speaker 1: most messed up childhood. And I've got a lot more
Speaker 1: compassion for her now. Or is it really matter when
Speaker 1: it's an audio book, you know, because it's really just
Speaker 1: her recounting her life.
Speaker 2: It's an autobiography.
Speaker 1: So it starts when she was a kid and it
Speaker 1: goes all the way until you know, a few years
Speaker 1: ago when she broke up with Ashton and ended up
Speaker 1: going back into rehab and a whole bunch of stuff.
Speaker 1: You've got me into audiobooks whole, and I always forget
Speaker 1: and some times when there's something I want to read
Speaker 1: but I feel like I can't sit still, audiobooks are
Speaker 1: a really great way of being able to do stuff
Speaker 1: while you're listening.
Speaker 3: My recommendation is the new season of Couples Therapy.
Speaker 2: Love is patient. She has zero patients.
Speaker 1: Love is kind.
Speaker 2: He punishes me with silence, Love listens. I disagree with that.
Speaker 3: Suse me.
Speaker 2: I'm begging you to talk to me. Find something you
Speaker 2: always have an extreme here, stop start Love is commitment.
Speaker 1: Rather than leave it alone, let's do something radical here
Speaker 1: on me.
Speaker 2: Tell me, have you ever watched I've never watched it,
Speaker 2: but I hear people talk about it all the time,
Speaker 2: and I'm like that sounds like is it like a
Speaker 2: reality show or a fiction?
Speaker 3: It's not really reality. It's more a documentary. And it
Speaker 3: is a couples therapist named doctor awna girlnick.
Speaker 1: Why would anyone do this?
Speaker 3: I wonder that too, because they're talking about the most private,
Speaker 3: mortifying Yeah, but it is so good. So it's four couples.
Speaker 3: There's a same sex couple, there's a poly situation and
Speaker 3: then two straight couples. But things that you think are
Speaker 3: small that end up actually being really big. I've found
Speaker 3: the discussions around jealousy with the poly relationship really insightful.
Speaker 3: But my additional recommendation is to watch it with your
Speaker 3: partner if you have.
Speaker 2: That sounds really like your.
Speaker 3: Hand, and then you pause it and then you look
Speaker 3: at them and then you wait for them, just because
Speaker 3: it is often sounds a good trap, it's really really good.
Speaker 4: Then there are bits that we agree on.
Speaker 3: So there's a couple where the man, so you know how,
Speaker 3: you get into a dynamic which everyone can relate with,
Speaker 3: where it's like the woman wants things done a certain
Speaker 3: way and then the man feels like you can't do
Speaker 3: anything right, blah blah blah, And they go into all
Speaker 3: this detail about how he vacuums and mops the floor
Speaker 3: for wiping down the bench, and she's like, but once
Speaker 3: you wipe down the bench, everything from the bench is
Speaker 3: going to go on the floor. And at that point
Speaker 3: Luca and I stopped and went, no, we're both in
Speaker 3: agreement that you must wipe down the bench before you
Speaker 3: do the floor, because that's just the most ridiculous, sister,
Speaker 3: It is really really good.
Speaker 2: It's become a bit of a celebrity. She's on podcasts
Speaker 2: and stuff. Is she great?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 3: And if you, like many people, are at a moment
Speaker 3: where you're trying to decide whether or not to get
Speaker 3: anti wrinkle injections, then may I suggests that you just
Speaker 3: watch this woman's forehead and the expression she just is
Speaker 3: just therapy with her forehead, and I'm like, oh, best
Speaker 3: supporting actor exactly her forehead loves love It.
Speaker 2: A reminder that all our recommendations, the links to all
Speaker 2: of them are always in our Mamma Mia out Loud newsletter,
Speaker 2: so you can sign up to that in a link
Speaker 2: in the show notes.
Speaker 1: Do you want daily Outloud access? Why wouldn't you? We
Speaker 1: drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mum and Me.
Speaker 1: Are subscribers follow the link in the show notes to
Speaker 1: get us in your ears five days a week. Thank
Speaker 1: you if you're already a subscriber.
Speaker 2: Now it's time for best and worst of the week.
Speaker 2: Remember this is a time where we can be silly,
Speaker 2: we can be serious, but we try and avoid anything heavy.
Speaker 2: Maya Friedman, what was your worst of the week.
Speaker 1: My worst was trying to have a chat with a
Speaker 1: stranger who had her hand in my vagina.
Speaker 4: Very common worst for you.
Speaker 1: Well, we made eye contact, and funnily enough, it's just
Speaker 1: another Tuesday in me as well. It was a hand
Speaker 1: that had also been in Jesse's vagina, and you're paying
Speaker 1: for it.
Speaker 2: We both paid for it.
Speaker 1: So I went hand. No, maybe it wasn't hand, maybe
Speaker 1: it was a finger. I don't know. It was just
Speaker 1: like usually when you get so anyway I was, I
Speaker 1: should say where I was. I was at a pelvic
Speaker 1: physio because of the recommendation, but Jesse told me to
Speaker 1: go there, so I ended up seeing I don't think
Speaker 1: I meant to book the same doctor as you anyway, physiotherapist.
Speaker 2: I did.
Speaker 1: I didn't try not to. Anyway, we didn't talk about
Speaker 1: you while she had her hand up there. You'll be
Speaker 1: pleased to know.
Speaker 2: This gets weird at this show, im HR.
Speaker 5: I know.
Speaker 1: So anyway, I've been having pelvic floor issues. I'm tired
Speaker 1: of it. I need to work on my pelvic floor,
Speaker 1: you know, coughing, wing, all that stuff. So Jesse said,
Speaker 1: go to the pelvic floor physio, which she did during
Speaker 1: her pregnancy. So I did, Claire, I didn't know that
Speaker 1: was even a thing, but they're popping up everywhere now.
Speaker 1: So I went, and you had to do some fun
Speaker 1: things like strip down to your undies and stand in
Speaker 1: the mirror with the very taut young physio behind you
Speaker 1: and just quite confronting. But she was like, you're all
Speaker 1: lopsided and here's what's happening. And these muscles are pushing
Speaker 1: down on your pelvic floor and you can see.
Speaker 4: Could you do a squeeze when she wanted you to squeeze?
Speaker 1: Oh no, So then I was lying down. She goes,
Speaker 1: just so you know that there is also an internal situation,
Speaker 1: and I went, yeah, I know, and she goes, you'd
Speaker 1: be surprised when people don't, and they're very I'm like,
Speaker 1: what what do they think? You're gonna look look at
Speaker 1: their outsides and give a diagnosis.
Speaker 2: So I was prepared.
Speaker 4: So how did you go with this squeazing?
Speaker 1: It's difficult.
Speaker 2: So she's squeezed.
Speaker 1: At one point, yeah, well her fingers up there. But
Speaker 1: at one point also she's got like a paddle popstick
Speaker 1: and she's measuring things and it's like it's quite a situation.
Speaker 1: But usually, like I'm completely unfussed, Like it always makes
Speaker 1: me laugh when she goes, I'll just leave the room
Speaker 1: and you can get unchanged. And I'm like, given what's
Speaker 1: about to happen, me taking my undies off is the
Speaker 1: least of my concerns. And also I don't care. I've
Speaker 1: had three babies. I don't care, So I'm like not
Speaker 1: fussed about that stuff. But when you're examined usually it's
Speaker 1: like they examine you, they do the thing, and then
Speaker 1: they finish right, but she sort of like does it.
Speaker 1: But then she's sort of her hands there and you're talking,
Speaker 1: like not chatting about the weather and what you're watching
Speaker 1: on TV, but talking about.
Speaker 2: The actual pelvic floor situation, and.
Speaker 1: She's expling a lot of things. It was good, she
Speaker 1: was terrific, and the whole thing was terrific, if mildly depressing,
Speaker 1: but it just was weird. And then she told me
Speaker 1: all these things, and I realized when I got home,
Speaker 1: I forgot all of them because it's a lot of
Speaker 1: information to take in, and it's this and you've got
Speaker 1: to do this, and you've got to do it's not
Speaker 1: just doing kegels, because apparently what I do is I've
Speaker 1: never got my pelvic floor rest.
Speaker 2: Yes, fully relaxed.
Speaker 1: And when it's always a little bit pulled, then you
Speaker 1: can't when it needs to go more, you don't have
Speaker 1: enough room. Anyway, it's a relaxed So then I got home.
Speaker 1: I've got to do our strength training exercises and osteo. Anyway,
Speaker 1: it was just it was an interesting time. My best
Speaker 1: is our new social producer Isabelle Dolphin, and yeah, it
Speaker 1: is cool. Everyone that works on this except for us,
Speaker 1: does sound bad made up. So we've always wanted our
Speaker 1: own private, personal, full time social producer on this show.
Speaker 1: And we've asked and asked and asked, but the asshole
Speaker 1: bosses me have always said no, can't. Now finally, after
Speaker 1: ten years, we're gonna have now. Che talked yourself round,
Speaker 1: I talk myself round. No, it's not just me, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a whole lot of people. But also I did
Speaker 1: just say, hey, we need a present. We need a
Speaker 1: little treat for our tenth birthday, and we'd like it
Speaker 1: to be Dolph. Anyway, My best is Dolph because have
Speaker 1: a look at our Instagram, have a look at us
Speaker 1: on TikTok. We don't understand that stuff, but she does.
Speaker 1: And She's just all the stuff that we've always wanted.
Speaker 1: It's so fun. It's so funny. My daughter and her girlfriend,
Speaker 1: who are very hard task masters, are like, hey, out loud,
Speaker 1: really funny, really cool on Instagram, what's going on? And
Speaker 1: we said Dolph and they're like, oh, it's Dolph.
Speaker 2: We love Dolf.
Speaker 1: So it's just fun. It's I love working with people
Speaker 1: who know more than I do about things and who
Speaker 1: teaches stuff, and the things that she's doing with us
Speaker 1: and getting us to do are just very very funny.
Speaker 2: You'll be able to tell if you have been watching.
Speaker 2: She just asks me to do things. I just do
Speaker 2: them without even thinking. Later I'm like, oh, same.
Speaker 1: So this week we've been dancing, we've been signing autograph.
Speaker 1: It's been very funny. But go have a look at
Speaker 1: our Instagram and TikTok and our TikTok and it's all off.
Speaker 2: Jesse, you've got to go next, because you're not allowed
Speaker 2: to go last because you're being depressing. I tell me
Speaker 2: about why you're being depressing.
Speaker 4: I am being depressing. I've just had this. I've just
Speaker 4: had a shit week.
Speaker 3: I had something chopped out of my head recently to
Speaker 3: check if it was a skin cancer. And the most
Speaker 3: annoying thing about this was that it was a scabby
Speaker 3: little thing. And I went to my yearly check up.
Speaker 3: I am so diligent with my skin checks because I
Speaker 3: know I'm a freckly white girl.
Speaker 1: In your family, a lot of people had things cut out.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 3: So went and got it checked. All fine, it's just
Speaker 3: a bit of dry skin. I went back because I went,
Speaker 3: this scat's getting a little bit bigger. It's all all good.
Speaker 3: Put some vitamin A on it. And then I was
Speaker 3: at the doctor for Luna, like last week maybe, and
Speaker 3: I said to the doctor, Hey, it was a different doctor,
Speaker 3: and I said, I've tried this vitamin anything. Apparently this
Speaker 3: is just some dry skin.
Speaker 1: Was right on your hairlines. So why would you have
Speaker 1: a bit of dry skin randomly exactly one part of your.
Speaker 3: Hair And I pointed to it and he said, immediately
Speaker 3: that's a BASc I can tell that's a battle celloma,
Speaker 3: which is a skin cancer. It's not melanoma, but it's
Speaker 3: not ideal. And so I had to get a biopsy
Speaker 3: the next day and then no, it didn't hurt at all.
Speaker 3: And I've had one removed from my arm before and
Speaker 3: that did hurt, but this was fine, came back b SC.
Speaker 3: So I've got to go to a plastic surgeon to
Speaker 3: go and get this thing removed, and I know, cut
Speaker 3: out or I've got to get the whole thing, and
Speaker 3: because it's gone under the skin, I've got to get
Speaker 3: the whole thing. And I think I'm going to walk
Speaker 3: into a plastic surgeon and they're going to be like.
Speaker 1: No, that's not I don't think that's how it works.
Speaker 1: That's a different kind of plastics.
Speaker 4: It's actually not. It's no.
Speaker 3: They give you a referral and that the doctor was
Speaker 3: looking through and he's like this one specialized in breast augmentation.
Speaker 4: I was like, not that one, not that one.
Speaker 2: I have a lot of no.
Speaker 1: But it's good because you want them to be esthetic
Speaker 1: or aesthetic because that's the whole point. And it's on
Speaker 1: your face. Yeah, So if they didn't need it to
Speaker 1: be esthetic, you could just have any old place and
Speaker 1: I could do it.
Speaker 3: Hold your thoughts, that's what I want to say. The
Speaker 3: plastic surgion just remove my things. But now I've got
Speaker 3: a phobia of the sun. So I was even at
Speaker 3: lunch today and I put sunscreen on in the morning,
Speaker 3: the feeling of sun.
Speaker 2: I'm just like a phobia to have. You also need
Speaker 2: a hat, sweetie.
Speaker 4: I knows I had to work.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I got? Sent a couple of
Speaker 1: hats by this amazing Australian female founder brand that I've
Speaker 1: forgotten but I'll put a link to in our newsletter.
Speaker 1: I've got some of their hats. They're like umbrellas for
Speaker 1: your head and done them where the laugh just sent her.
Speaker 1: They've just done that black, which is perfect for you.
Speaker 1: And what it is is like having a like a
Speaker 1: full awning on my head.
Speaker 2: Yes, you head, so I'll sort you out.
Speaker 4: Oh I like that.
Speaker 2: Okay, I reminded me I need the skin check, So
Speaker 2: thank you for the.
Speaker 3: Carter I think the brand is called and actually reminder
Speaker 3: for that it looked like a scab. It wasn't a freckle.
Speaker 3: And so if you've got anything looks like a little
Speaker 3: scabgo get checked out. And my the worst actually is
Speaker 3: that I've realized I was speaking to Holly about this
Speaker 3: last week. I just haven't been writing and I'm making
Speaker 3: me really sad.
Speaker 1: I don't feel like who I am.
Speaker 3: No may neither, and I've just I've been in a
Speaker 3: funk in terms of writing, and it's probably to do
Speaker 3: with time, but like Luna is fifteen months or something.
Speaker 3: I've written a handful of articles, like I just I'm
Speaker 3: not and I'm watching scripts. Oh yeah, I'm writing scripts,
Speaker 3: but that just feels like dialogue. It's not like and
Speaker 3: I'm reading this brilliant book at the moment that I'm
Speaker 3: finding so inspiring, and I'm just what it's all for?
Speaker 4: The writing?
Speaker 3: You know, when you just read something that's so inspiring
Speaker 3: and I keep thinking, oh, I want to write, I
Speaker 3: want to write, and then I get like a pen
Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't know what to write, Like it's
Speaker 3: just a weird I feel kind of stuck. So I
Speaker 3: want to start writing again because I'm.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like writing a book or you just
Speaker 1: want to write?
Speaker 4: I could write that tonight.
Speaker 2: This is the process, though, this is your You're reving
Speaker 2: up because obviously you will write another book soon, and
Speaker 2: you just beginning to rev up your inputting, like yeah,
Speaker 2: you've brainspread a book that's made you go ah, and
Speaker 2: then you're inputting yeah, and it's like this is part
Speaker 2: of the process. Don't be down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, good, it's the best part because it feels like
Speaker 1: a pulling. I've got that too, like a yearning, like
Speaker 1: I'm being pulled to write.
Speaker 4: I don't know what I think.
Speaker 3: And it's a different thing to get on a podcast,
Speaker 3: and you know it's it's also a way of using
Speaker 3: your brain, but not the same.
Speaker 4: Holly, what's your worst?
Speaker 3: Look?
Speaker 2: My worst is very petty because you know how sometimes
Speaker 2: Hollywood announcements will come out in this famous book or
Speaker 2: whatever is being adapted and this star and this star
Speaker 2: is in it, and the internet gets really upset. And
Speaker 2: I always sit there going, you people need to get
Speaker 2: a life. Why are you upset about this? I always
Speaker 2: feel This week there was a Hollywood announcement about an
Speaker 2: adaptation of a book that has really pissed me off.
Speaker 2: So you know, our wonderful, brilliant, talented friend, Emerald Fanell,
Speaker 2: she made Saltburn.
Speaker 1: We're across and promising young woman.
Speaker 2: I was very excited a while ago because her next
Speaker 2: project is she's making Wuthering Heights. Wuthering Heights is my
Speaker 2: favorite book. My two favorite books are Wuthering Heights and
Speaker 2: Jane Eyre and they are.
Speaker 4: You give me just sent wathering. Someone hiding in.
Speaker 3: The room there's one someone in an attic anxiety work
Speaker 3: with Wathering Heights. I feel like there's a big sprawling.
Speaker 2: For the new and Zietgeys and everyone on the internet
Speaker 2: talks about the Bronzie sisters. Fucking hell, they wrote the
Speaker 2: most unbelievable books about women with their ink and freaking
Speaker 2: whatever you call it.
Speaker 4: I've read it, I just can't remember, probably.
Speaker 2: On the moors in the north of England, and they
Speaker 2: had to pretend to be men to get them published.
Speaker 2: Like you people, You've got because it's the best book
Speaker 2: ever written, you idiots anyway, So Wathering Heights is one
Speaker 2: of my favorite books. So I was very excited because
Speaker 2: she's going to do a fucking great job of that.
Speaker 2: But guess who she's casting?
Speaker 1: Hang on, is she setting it like in modern time?
Speaker 2: We don't know. These are all things we don't know yet.
Speaker 2: Doubt pretty aggressive. I'm very upset.
Speaker 1: Could she be casting that?
Speaker 2: You could care about this? Margo?
Speaker 4: What's wrong with Margot Robbie?
Speaker 2: She's perfect and Jacob Alordie perfect?
Speaker 1: Are you kidding? This is the only reason I'm going
Speaker 1: to watch this.
Speaker 4: Can I tell you people?
Speaker 2: Can I tell you people that Cassie as the song
Speaker 2: you were just singing.
Speaker 4: I don't know what she's mean.
Speaker 2: She's the lead in Wuthering Heights. She dies when she's nineteen.
Speaker 2: Where I'm going, Yeah, so like, why are we casting
Speaker 2: Margot Robbie?
Speaker 1: I think she is.
Speaker 2: I have faith Emerald for now. I'm sure her vision
Speaker 2: beyond mine.
Speaker 1: Like a young person Lawrence Laurence.
Speaker 2: Too old, any one of those young Flibberty Gibbit types.
Speaker 2: Not Sabrina.
Speaker 1: She could be she could be busy and good. Jones
Speaker 1: would be good.
Speaker 4: I look very bronzes.
Speaker 2: Cassie dies at nineteen, so what's wrong with jameb Cliff
Speaker 2: is a monster? Yeah? I think he could play like
Speaker 2: he is a dark month been anyone who is? He
Speaker 2: did Jacob Lord, who's like pretty hate Australians because I
Speaker 2: think this actually makes it sound interesting so funny, because
Speaker 2: as I say, I don't buy into these things, and
Speaker 2: then I saw that and I was like, I'm sorry anyway,
Speaker 2: the point being I'm half joking because I know everything
Speaker 2: was gonna do, but like, really, Margo Robbie as Cassie,
Speaker 2: can we please wait?
Speaker 4: Once Angelina Jolly's kid, hil she.
Speaker 2: Would be good.
Speaker 4: Shiloh would be good.
Speaker 2: Dearly English and ideally you look like you have lived.
Speaker 1: Your whole life locked on more Princess Charlotte.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Princes Arlotte.
Speaker 2: But anyway, so that was my worst. I got all
Speaker 2: upset about that. I nearly wrote an angry comment somewhere
Speaker 2: on the Internet that I was got a grip a
Speaker 2: great woman. My best is related to my friend me.
Speaker 2: I don't like to give it too much positive validation,
Speaker 2: but I was start singing carefully and she needs to
Speaker 2: read mothering heights. But apart from them, last week she
Speaker 2: told me that clear. I was asked telling you how
Speaker 2: I was going to clear up my wardrobe, and he
Speaker 2: gave me all these tips of how to clear up
Speaker 2: my wardrobe. I spent the weekend clearing up my water,
Speaker 2: but it took me a lot longer than I was
Speaker 2: I listened to an audio Bet you did it two
Speaker 2: freaking days. It was me and Billy did it.
Speaker 1: My crack.
Speaker 5: Oh.
Speaker 2: I hated it anyway, but what came out of it
Speaker 2: was what you predicted, which was new outfits. So on
Speaker 2: a Tuesday Wednesday this week, I've worn shirts or skirts
Speaker 2: that I'd forgotten that I had that I found at
Speaker 2: the back of the closet. I took pictures of them,
Speaker 2: like I shopped my closet. So you did me a
Speaker 2: favor there.
Speaker 1: My friend a few outladders have messaged me to say
Speaker 1: I started to say about wardrobe storage, and then I went, oh,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you later. Yeah, they said, I clickbaited. Well,
Speaker 1: I said, I'd tell Holly later. I didn't think anyone
Speaker 1: else would care. My advice is go to Amazon and
Speaker 1: search wardrobe storage and just enjoy the ride.
Speaker 2: We know so many of you love are us presidential
Speaker 2: election subscriber episodes. We've got a brand new one.
Speaker 1: It was quite moving this episode because it's about January
Speaker 1: sixth and the riots and the storming of the Capitol
Speaker 1: Building in Washington, DC. And Amelia, who is friend of
Speaker 1: the pod and amazing person, her husband was actually in
Speaker 1: the Capitol building his doctor and he worked in there
Speaker 1: at the time. And we're going to play you out
Speaker 1: today with a little bit of that episode, and there's
Speaker 1: a link in the show notes if you want to
Speaker 1: listen to the whole thing.
Speaker 5: And then I turned the TV off and I called
Speaker 5: Johnny and I said, do you see that there are
Speaker 5: like thousands of presumably armed mob protesters outside of your
Speaker 5: building right now, and he said he didn't hear anything.
Speaker 5: Everything seemed normal, so I thought, okay. So then eventually
Speaker 5: I get a text from a very good friend of
Speaker 5: mine who I charged with this, and I'll always remember
Speaker 5: the text she texted me and she said, I'm so
Speaker 5: sorry they're inside.
Speaker 2: That's all we've got time for today. A big thank
Speaker 2: you to all of you out loud as of course,
Speaker 2: and a massive thank you to our very talented team.
Speaker 2: That's executive producer Ruth Divine. This is what Maya was
Speaker 2: talking about when she said people have goggles. Yeah, she's divine,
Speaker 2: Ruth Divine. Our senior producer Emmeline gazillis excellent, excellent name.
Speaker 2: Our audio producer Leah Porges, Yeah, I mean Adam and
Speaker 2: how wonderful already aforementioned social media producer they amazing Isabelle Dolphin.
Speaker 2: Crowd goes, well, we'll see you next week.
Speaker 4: Bye.
Speaker 3: Shout out to any mum and me a subscribers listening.
Speaker 3: If you love the show and you want to support us,
Speaker 3: subscribing to MoMA mia is the very best way to
Speaker 3: do so. There's a link in the episode description