1 00:00:05,799 --> 00:00:12,679 Speaker 1: You're listening to A Mom with mea podcast. Welcome back 2 00:00:12,719 --> 00:00:15,799 Speaker 1: to a brand new season. I'm a Shany Dante and 3 00:00:15,999 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: this is but are You Happy? A Mother mea podcast 4 00:00:18,919 --> 00:00:22,039 Speaker 1: where we talk all things mental health, especially for people 5 00:00:22,039 --> 00:00:24,999 Speaker 1: who cope by deflecting with humor and wanting to change 6 00:00:24,999 --> 00:00:26,199 Speaker 1: the subject immediately. 7 00:00:26,479 --> 00:00:30,399 Speaker 2: And I'm clinical psychologist doctor Anastasia Hernis. Now we're very 8 00:00:30,439 --> 00:00:32,759 Speaker 2: excited to be back with you, but let's be real, 9 00:00:32,999 --> 00:00:35,959 Speaker 2: the start of twenty twenty six has been pretty heavy, 10 00:00:36,119 --> 00:00:38,719 Speaker 2: and I'm guessing that if you've clicked on this episode 11 00:00:38,719 --> 00:00:41,679 Speaker 2: to have a listen, you are probably feeling the heaviness 12 00:00:41,679 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 2: of the constant news streams coming through. You might be 13 00:00:44,559 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 2: wondering how you can protect your mental health. And the 14 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 2: good news is there are things you can do. 15 00:00:49,039 --> 00:00:51,039 Speaker 1: I'm glad there's a bit of good news, because, yeah, 16 00:00:51,079 --> 00:00:53,279 Speaker 1: there is so much going on in the world right now, 17 00:00:53,319 --> 00:00:56,639 Speaker 1: from things happening in our local backyard like bondaie attacks 18 00:00:56,679 --> 00:00:59,919 Speaker 1: to shark attacks, heat waves, bush fires, to global wars. 19 00:00:59,959 --> 00:01:03,879 Speaker 1: It's really endless, and I think it's really important to 20 00:01:03,879 --> 00:01:06,639 Speaker 1: to name up front. You know, this conversation isn't about politics. 21 00:01:06,679 --> 00:01:10,479 Speaker 1: It's actually talking about how we're feeling in today's climate. 22 00:01:11,559 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 2: Demonstrators gather on the streets around the Sport to where 23 00:01:14,679 --> 00:01:17,999 Speaker 2: a thirty seven year old nurse, Alex Pretty was killed 24 00:01:18,039 --> 00:01:19,079 Speaker 2: by Border agents. 25 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:24,159 Speaker 3: Absolutely devastated this morning, and it's our responsibility to wrap 26 00:01:24,199 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 3: our arms around that wounded community and let them know 27 00:01:28,239 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 3: that ordinary Australians, regular Australians are in their corner. 28 00:01:32,599 --> 00:01:35,559 Speaker 2: Surfers were told to leave the water after a tagged 29 00:01:35,599 --> 00:01:37,839 Speaker 2: bull shark was detected in the area. 30 00:01:37,999 --> 00:01:41,199 Speaker 3: Two men will face court today after being charged over 31 00:01:41,239 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 3: the alleged abduction and murder of Sydney grandfather Chris Bagsara. 32 00:01:45,479 --> 00:01:47,599 Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but I find it really 33 00:01:47,679 --> 00:01:50,959 Speaker 1: hard to navigate just the world we're living in right now. 34 00:01:50,999 --> 00:01:54,279 Speaker 4: It's just, yeah, it's just hard. It's been a lot. 35 00:01:54,359 --> 00:01:56,319 Speaker 2: It's been a lot in a short period of time, 36 00:01:56,839 --> 00:01:59,879 Speaker 2: and you know, I think about these things a lot. 37 00:01:59,959 --> 00:02:02,799 Speaker 2: And I also see clients in the clinic who are 38 00:02:02,879 --> 00:02:05,879 Speaker 2: talking about so many any of the recent events that 39 00:02:05,919 --> 00:02:09,959 Speaker 2: have occurred that have been catastrophic and devastating and impacted 40 00:02:09,999 --> 00:02:13,399 Speaker 2: people in so many different ways. And on the one hand, 41 00:02:14,199 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 2: I almost feel like I'm in a bit of a 42 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 2: privileged position because I mean, part of the work of 43 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,719 Speaker 2: being a psychologist is we learn how to kind of 44 00:02:20,759 --> 00:02:24,239 Speaker 2: build that skin that buffers us when we hear so 45 00:02:24,439 --> 00:02:27,959 Speaker 2: much negativity and so much trauma and so much hardship 46 00:02:28,039 --> 00:02:30,559 Speaker 2: that people are going through. But on the other hand, 47 00:02:31,039 --> 00:02:33,679 Speaker 2: I hear a lot of it and it's heavy. 48 00:02:34,039 --> 00:02:37,999 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is definitely heavy, And I find it really 49 00:02:38,079 --> 00:02:40,959 Speaker 1: challenging because I can have all the tools in my toolkit, right, 50 00:02:40,999 --> 00:02:43,799 Speaker 1: I can have the awareness, but I think, I know, 51 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 1: I'm such a big feeler, so it's just so hard 52 00:02:46,799 --> 00:02:50,239 Speaker 1: to just stop feeling. You know, I'm a human being 53 00:02:50,279 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 1: with a lot of different emotions, you know. 54 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,839 Speaker 2: And I think what we see a lot of people 55 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:59,399 Speaker 2: experience who perhaps are big feelers as well, is this 56 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,959 Speaker 2: bind between wanting to feel like when I hear awful 57 00:03:03,999 --> 00:03:06,879 Speaker 2: things happen in my local backyard or around the world, 58 00:03:06,999 --> 00:03:10,279 Speaker 2: I want to feel moved by that or impacted by 59 00:03:10,279 --> 00:03:12,239 Speaker 2: that in some way, because that shows that I'm human, 60 00:03:12,279 --> 00:03:14,439 Speaker 2: it shows that I care, It shows that I have 61 00:03:14,479 --> 00:03:17,039 Speaker 2: an empathetic emotional system that's working. 62 00:03:17,759 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 4: And yet on the. 63 00:03:18,479 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 2: Other hand, I hear people talk about this sense of 64 00:03:21,679 --> 00:03:25,039 Speaker 2: guilt when they don't feel that like you can't take 65 00:03:25,119 --> 00:03:28,279 Speaker 2: on the world, especially as it is right now, and 66 00:03:28,359 --> 00:03:31,479 Speaker 2: so people do need to kind of build that capacity 67 00:03:31,519 --> 00:03:33,119 Speaker 2: to buffer themselves against it. 68 00:03:33,319 --> 00:03:34,919 Speaker 4: But sometimes that can come with an. 69 00:03:34,839 --> 00:03:38,639 Speaker 2: Experience of feeling guilty if we don't feel moved when 70 00:03:38,679 --> 00:03:40,399 Speaker 2: we hear certain news events happening. 71 00:03:40,679 --> 00:03:41,399 Speaker 4: Yeah, totally. 72 00:03:41,439 --> 00:03:43,439 Speaker 1: And it's kind of like when you talk about the guilt, 73 00:03:43,439 --> 00:03:45,919 Speaker 1: we can definitely go into spiraling into oh is there 74 00:03:45,959 --> 00:03:48,639 Speaker 1: something wrong with me? Or am I just a heartless bitch? 75 00:03:48,719 --> 00:03:51,719 Speaker 1: You know, like it really just it can be endless 76 00:03:51,759 --> 00:03:54,159 Speaker 1: and it's just really important to know that everyone is 77 00:03:54,199 --> 00:03:56,839 Speaker 1: going to show up differently when there's so much going 78 00:03:56,879 --> 00:04:00,039 Speaker 1: on in the world, and that's okay. Yeah, So with 79 00:04:00,239 --> 00:04:03,439 Speaker 1: a lot of these feelings were navigating, can you kind 80 00:04:03,439 --> 00:04:06,039 Speaker 1: of share a lot a bit more from like a 81 00:04:06,119 --> 00:04:08,999 Speaker 1: psychologist perspective, what's happening? 82 00:04:09,719 --> 00:04:13,319 Speaker 2: Well, I'm hearing people talk about a lot of different emotions, right, So, 83 00:04:13,439 --> 00:04:16,519 Speaker 2: as you said, there's a lot of the grief for 84 00:04:16,559 --> 00:04:19,919 Speaker 2: what's happening in the world, the feeling moved by things, 85 00:04:20,519 --> 00:04:23,319 Speaker 2: feeling guilty perhaps if we're not feeling as moved as. 86 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:24,959 Speaker 4: We expect that we should. 87 00:04:25,519 --> 00:04:28,679 Speaker 2: But also two key emotions that I think are important 88 00:04:28,679 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 2: to unpack that come up for a lot of people, 89 00:04:31,079 --> 00:04:36,559 Speaker 2: and that is helplessness and hopelessness, and I think sometimes 90 00:04:36,559 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 2: people might use them interchangeably, but there's some key differences 91 00:04:39,959 --> 00:04:46,439 Speaker 2: between them. So helplessness is about control. Ultimately. If I 92 00:04:46,519 --> 00:04:49,879 Speaker 2: hear about world events that are occurring, perhaps on the 93 00:04:49,879 --> 00:04:52,199 Speaker 2: other side of the world, I feel moved by them, 94 00:04:52,199 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 2: I feel impacted by them. I wish I could do 95 00:04:54,519 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 2: something about it. But when something is out of my control, 96 00:04:59,039 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 2: I can end up feeling quite helpless about the situation. 97 00:05:02,399 --> 00:05:02,919 Speaker 4: That I'm in. 98 00:05:03,999 --> 00:05:08,399 Speaker 2: On the flip side, hopelessness is this sense of not 99 00:05:08,439 --> 00:05:10,079 Speaker 2: being able to see the light at the end of 100 00:05:10,079 --> 00:05:13,639 Speaker 2: the tunnel. It's more about the future and our perspective 101 00:05:13,679 --> 00:05:17,559 Speaker 2: towards what's going to happen now. What we see is 102 00:05:17,559 --> 00:05:22,559 Speaker 2: that when people experience multiple instances of helplessness. So I 103 00:05:22,639 --> 00:05:25,799 Speaker 2: hear about wars, I hear about terrorist attacks, I hear 104 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,359 Speaker 2: about climate change, I hear about all these things that 105 00:05:28,439 --> 00:05:31,439 Speaker 2: make me feel helpless as one single person in the world. 106 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:36,439 Speaker 2: That can contribute to an overall feeling of hopelessness because 107 00:05:36,439 --> 00:05:38,959 Speaker 2: I sit back and I go, gosh, if the world 108 00:05:38,999 --> 00:05:41,519 Speaker 2: is so heavy and there are so many awful things happening, 109 00:05:41,599 --> 00:05:45,199 Speaker 2: right now. How can I possibly see hope at the 110 00:05:45,319 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 2: end of all of this. 111 00:05:47,039 --> 00:05:49,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think when you're speaking to both of 112 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,559 Speaker 1: those different feelings, it is really valid, right, because it 113 00:05:52,599 --> 00:05:55,639 Speaker 1: is we all really care. You know, we're connected to 114 00:05:56,199 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: tragedies that happen from like you know what we were 115 00:05:58,719 --> 00:06:01,639 Speaker 1: talking about locally or to globally, and we might know 116 00:06:01,759 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 1: people that have been impacted. So it is it is 117 00:06:04,879 --> 00:06:06,759 Speaker 1: going to happen. We are going to feel those things 118 00:06:06,799 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: and probably going to feel both at the same time. 119 00:06:09,319 --> 00:06:12,439 Speaker 1: I assume they exactly they interchange. 120 00:06:12,119 --> 00:06:15,959 Speaker 2: Yes, And the problem can become if we get stuck 121 00:06:15,999 --> 00:06:19,239 Speaker 2: in those feelings. Right, feeling at times helpless or hopeless 122 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 2: is not problematic in and of itself. We've talked about 123 00:06:21,959 --> 00:06:26,079 Speaker 2: emotions as being sources of data, sources of information. They 124 00:06:26,119 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 2: give us crucial information about how we're feeling in the 125 00:06:28,919 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 2: environment that we're in. But we certainly don't want to 126 00:06:31,639 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 2: get stuck in those feelings. So it can actually be 127 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,679 Speaker 2: really useful for us to learn that skill of being 128 00:06:37,719 --> 00:06:41,319 Speaker 2: able to recognize the emotions and slightly detaching from them. 129 00:06:41,639 --> 00:06:44,559 Speaker 1: It feels like we are living in new times, and 130 00:06:44,639 --> 00:06:49,119 Speaker 1: the unfortunate reality is that you know, war's conflict, chaos 131 00:06:49,199 --> 00:06:51,519 Speaker 1: has been in the world for so long now, but 132 00:06:52,239 --> 00:06:54,639 Speaker 1: the times we're living in it does feel like everything 133 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:55,799 Speaker 1: is amplified. 134 00:06:56,759 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 2: Well, we live in the age of information, yeah, or 135 00:06:59,919 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 2: information overload. 136 00:07:01,199 --> 00:07:02,999 Speaker 1: We totally overload. Yeah. 137 00:07:03,039 --> 00:07:06,439 Speaker 2: So we've always had, as you said, conflicts, etc. But 138 00:07:06,519 --> 00:07:08,639 Speaker 2: if you think back in the day, you know, people 139 00:07:08,719 --> 00:07:11,679 Speaker 2: sat around the radio and waited for the news segment 140 00:07:11,759 --> 00:07:14,839 Speaker 2: to hear updates as to what was happening overseas. Yeah, 141 00:07:15,119 --> 00:07:18,439 Speaker 2: it was contained. We didn't have the constant stream of 142 00:07:18,559 --> 00:07:22,399 Speaker 2: visual imagery coming through as to what was happening. It 143 00:07:22,439 --> 00:07:26,479 Speaker 2: was curated through specific news feeds. So it's a very 144 00:07:26,479 --> 00:07:31,039 Speaker 2: different experience of how we heard and understood the news 145 00:07:31,079 --> 00:07:35,919 Speaker 2: and world events. Nowadays, we have a constant influx on 146 00:07:35,999 --> 00:07:40,839 Speaker 2: social media of news and related events. I mean it's 147 00:07:40,959 --> 00:07:45,119 Speaker 2: not natural for us to see so much footage of 148 00:07:45,199 --> 00:07:45,999 Speaker 2: terrorist attacks. 149 00:07:46,119 --> 00:07:50,039 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and so unfiltered too, And I think that's 150 00:07:50,559 --> 00:07:53,199 Speaker 1: and aspiring because you know, we did an episode all 151 00:07:53,239 --> 00:07:55,599 Speaker 1: about the phone and how we're constantly on it, and 152 00:07:55,919 --> 00:07:58,079 Speaker 1: you know, we are on our phone constantly. It is 153 00:07:58,199 --> 00:08:00,679 Speaker 1: the world that we are living in. Like, It's true, 154 00:08:00,679 --> 00:08:02,639 Speaker 1: we are all addicted to our phones in certain ways. 155 00:08:02,639 --> 00:08:05,439 Speaker 1: So when we're bombarded by so much of the same thing, 156 00:08:05,519 --> 00:08:07,919 Speaker 1: it just is part of our world. 157 00:08:08,199 --> 00:08:10,799 Speaker 2: And I think this is where I often think about 158 00:08:11,239 --> 00:08:14,719 Speaker 2: our social responsibility and the bind that we can sometimes 159 00:08:14,759 --> 00:08:17,799 Speaker 2: find ourselves in between. You know, if we are active 160 00:08:17,879 --> 00:08:20,719 Speaker 2: users of social media wanting to advocate for certain causes 161 00:08:20,799 --> 00:08:23,479 Speaker 2: or things that feel important to us, or things that 162 00:08:23,519 --> 00:08:26,799 Speaker 2: we see as being important in the world, versus not 163 00:08:27,039 --> 00:08:31,479 Speaker 2: adding to the overload of information and content that already 164 00:08:31,519 --> 00:08:32,319 Speaker 2: exists out there. 165 00:08:32,919 --> 00:08:36,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always trying to find that balance. Yeah, So 166 00:08:36,799 --> 00:08:40,759 Speaker 1: I think something I'm curious about what happens when we 167 00:08:40,959 --> 00:08:44,239 Speaker 1: are constantly exposed about us because yeah, this is the 168 00:08:44,239 --> 00:08:47,519 Speaker 1: moment in history where we are we are experiencing at 169 00:08:47,519 --> 00:08:48,279 Speaker 1: twenty four to seven. 170 00:08:48,599 --> 00:08:53,479 Speaker 2: Well, it activates our threat system. It can create constant 171 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 2: low levels of anxiety. I mean, the brain is wired 172 00:08:56,719 --> 00:08:59,719 Speaker 2: to be on alert for threats. We have an attentional 173 00:08:59,799 --> 00:09:04,239 Speaker 2: bias towards threats, and so if we are seeing constant 174 00:09:04,279 --> 00:09:10,839 Speaker 2: news feeds and images and videos of threatening and anxiety 175 00:09:10,879 --> 00:09:15,239 Speaker 2: provoking content and scenarios, our brain and our body are 176 00:09:15,279 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 2: going to be somewhat chronically elevated. 177 00:09:19,279 --> 00:09:21,759 Speaker 4: Now, over time, this can. 178 00:09:21,599 --> 00:09:26,039 Speaker 2: Add to experiences of chronic stress, to experiences of burnout, 179 00:09:26,239 --> 00:09:29,039 Speaker 2: to experiences of sort of chronic anxiety, so it can 180 00:09:29,079 --> 00:09:31,879 Speaker 2: really have that long lasting impact. It's okay for our 181 00:09:31,919 --> 00:09:35,519 Speaker 2: body to experience moments of stress, it's what it's designed 182 00:09:35,599 --> 00:09:38,239 Speaker 2: to be able to do, but it's not designed to 183 00:09:38,279 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 2: be in a chronic state of stress. 184 00:09:40,999 --> 00:09:43,959 Speaker 1: It's actually quite confronting when you say that, because I 185 00:09:43,999 --> 00:09:47,599 Speaker 1: feel like we are already very stressed with day to 186 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:48,759 Speaker 1: day responsibilities. 187 00:09:48,759 --> 00:09:50,039 Speaker 4: Man, adulting can be. 188 00:09:50,039 --> 00:09:52,359 Speaker 1: So hard, you know, And then on top of that, 189 00:09:52,399 --> 00:09:57,279 Speaker 1: we're adding the impacts of tragedies that we're seeing overseas 190 00:09:57,359 --> 00:09:59,359 Speaker 1: or in our local backyard. So it is all getting 191 00:09:59,479 --> 00:10:02,519 Speaker 1: very amplified. So that is really worrying and concerning. 192 00:10:03,239 --> 00:10:06,039 Speaker 2: And I think to add to that, you know, some 193 00:10:06,079 --> 00:10:09,079 Speaker 2: of the content we're seeing is being fed to us 194 00:10:09,119 --> 00:10:12,399 Speaker 2: in certain ways, so I'm thinking about clickbait headlines and 195 00:10:12,479 --> 00:10:15,399 Speaker 2: reach page right. I was actually reflecting on this every 196 00:10:15,399 --> 00:10:18,799 Speaker 2: time I feel petrol at my local petrol station, I 197 00:10:18,879 --> 00:10:22,479 Speaker 2: walk past the newspapers that they sell. Most people, many 198 00:10:22,479 --> 00:10:23,719 Speaker 2: people are still buying newspapers. 199 00:10:23,839 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 3: The newspapers. 200 00:10:24,839 --> 00:10:25,879 Speaker 1: Gosh, what a throwback. 201 00:10:26,759 --> 00:10:29,759 Speaker 2: I have not bought a newspaper perhaps ever but I 202 00:10:29,799 --> 00:10:31,359 Speaker 2: don't say it a long time, but maybe I. 203 00:10:31,319 --> 00:10:34,239 Speaker 4: Never bought a newspaper. I'm not sure sure my parents did. 204 00:10:34,359 --> 00:10:36,519 Speaker 2: Yeah, every time, it's always at the door. So every 205 00:10:36,519 --> 00:10:38,039 Speaker 2: time I feel petrol, I go in, I pay, and 206 00:10:38,039 --> 00:10:40,799 Speaker 2: I walk out. I always just liked I don't know 207 00:10:40,799 --> 00:10:42,599 Speaker 2: why I do it, but I like to look at 208 00:10:42,599 --> 00:10:44,399 Speaker 2: the front page of the news and see what the 209 00:10:44,399 --> 00:10:47,199 Speaker 2: news headline is. And I was reflecting on this this 210 00:10:47,239 --> 00:10:48,959 Speaker 2: morning as I was thinking about this episode, and I 211 00:10:48,999 --> 00:10:55,359 Speaker 2: was thinking, that newspaper has one opportunity to sell to me, 212 00:10:55,759 --> 00:10:57,479 Speaker 2: to pick up that paper and buy it, right, It's 213 00:10:57,519 --> 00:11:00,639 Speaker 2: got that one page, that one headline, And you know, 214 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:02,199 Speaker 2: I never have actually bought it, but I always just 215 00:11:02,239 --> 00:11:03,839 Speaker 2: kind of check out what the headline is. Yeah, but 216 00:11:03,879 --> 00:11:07,439 Speaker 2: when we're on social media, every scroll is a new 217 00:11:07,519 --> 00:11:10,879 Speaker 2: opportunity for us to go deep into something. So every 218 00:11:10,919 --> 00:11:13,959 Speaker 2: scroll is every video is a new opportunity for them 219 00:11:13,999 --> 00:11:17,519 Speaker 2: to kind of sell us this piece of news versus 220 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,559 Speaker 2: like the one opportunity of walking past the newspaper. And 221 00:11:20,639 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 2: so we see so much content that is rage bait, 222 00:11:23,599 --> 00:11:27,919 Speaker 2: that is amplified, that is exaggerated, that uses inflammatory language 223 00:11:27,959 --> 00:11:30,719 Speaker 2: for the purpose of being noticed there's so much content 224 00:11:31,039 --> 00:11:33,639 Speaker 2: and content wants to be noticed, and so not only 225 00:11:33,639 --> 00:11:36,799 Speaker 2: do we get this constant stream of content and news 226 00:11:37,039 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 2: and heaviness about the world, but we get it positioned 227 00:11:40,319 --> 00:11:44,399 Speaker 2: to us in ways that is not always accurate, yeah, 228 00:11:44,439 --> 00:11:47,879 Speaker 2: but is designed to invoke emotions within us totally. 229 00:11:48,239 --> 00:11:50,919 Speaker 1: You know, what would be so nice to see front 230 00:11:50,919 --> 00:11:55,399 Speaker 1: covers of newspapers but just good news. I'm ready to 231 00:11:55,439 --> 00:11:56,319 Speaker 1: bring back the good. 232 00:11:56,199 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 4: News good news headlines. 233 00:11:57,399 --> 00:11:59,799 Speaker 1: I know, that's it. I mean, that's also really creative 234 00:11:59,959 --> 00:12:03,319 Speaker 1: marketing strategy. Anyways, we digress. How do I find the 235 00:12:03,359 --> 00:12:07,199 Speaker 1: balance between staying informed, you know, being a good global 236 00:12:07,199 --> 00:12:10,879 Speaker 1: citizen versus protecting my nervous system and my mental health 237 00:12:10,919 --> 00:12:13,839 Speaker 1: because it's really hard. And you were talking about guilt before, 238 00:12:13,879 --> 00:12:16,119 Speaker 1: and I think for me, I've definitely had moments where, 239 00:12:16,159 --> 00:12:17,719 Speaker 1: you know, friends will be talking about, oh, did you 240 00:12:17,759 --> 00:12:19,879 Speaker 1: hear about the latest thing that happened in X you know, 241 00:12:20,119 --> 00:12:22,919 Speaker 1: and I may have genuinely not have seen it, and 242 00:12:23,039 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 1: I feel really guilty and I'm like, oh, no, are 243 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,879 Speaker 1: they judging me? Or am I judging myself? Is it 244 00:12:28,919 --> 00:12:29,559 Speaker 1: a bit of both? 245 00:12:29,999 --> 00:12:34,359 Speaker 2: The guilt piece is interesting because I feel that sane 246 00:12:34,439 --> 00:12:38,279 Speaker 2: guilt and the thought that runs through my mind is, Gosh, 247 00:12:38,319 --> 00:12:40,599 Speaker 2: I spent so much time on my phone? 248 00:12:40,759 --> 00:12:41,639 Speaker 4: How did I miss this? 249 00:12:42,799 --> 00:12:45,279 Speaker 2: Like it's not like it's not like I missed it 250 00:12:45,359 --> 00:12:47,759 Speaker 2: because I consciously chose, you know, today I'm not going 251 00:12:47,799 --> 00:12:49,599 Speaker 2: to engage with the news. I engage with the news 252 00:12:49,599 --> 00:12:51,319 Speaker 2: a lot, and I spend a lot of time on 253 00:12:51,359 --> 00:12:55,279 Speaker 2: my phone and social media. So if there's something that's 254 00:12:55,319 --> 00:12:59,519 Speaker 2: happened that I haven't heard about, I actually am feeling guilty. 255 00:12:59,159 --> 00:13:00,919 Speaker 4: Because I think, God, how did I miss this? 256 00:13:02,399 --> 00:13:05,119 Speaker 2: But in terms of balance, it's a really good points 257 00:13:05,279 --> 00:13:07,799 Speaker 2: and I think the balance is going to be different 258 00:13:07,799 --> 00:13:10,239 Speaker 2: for everyone. But I know we've talked a bit about 259 00:13:10,239 --> 00:13:13,079 Speaker 2: like curating the feed as well, you know, being able 260 00:13:13,119 --> 00:13:14,719 Speaker 2: to kind of say what we want to see more of, 261 00:13:14,839 --> 00:13:19,359 Speaker 2: see less of, and intentionally taking breaks from I'm going 262 00:13:19,439 --> 00:13:22,239 Speaker 2: to say social media, because the research tells us that 263 00:13:22,519 --> 00:13:27,199 Speaker 2: most people, particularly young people, are actually going to social 264 00:13:27,239 --> 00:13:29,839 Speaker 2: media as a source of news. Yeah, that's where they're 265 00:13:29,839 --> 00:13:32,639 Speaker 2: primarily getting their news from these days. So really, if 266 00:13:32,639 --> 00:13:36,479 Speaker 2: we're talking about limiting our access and time consuming news, 267 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:39,559 Speaker 2: we're talking about limiting our access to social media. 268 00:13:39,639 --> 00:13:42,519 Speaker 1: Do you feel like losing faith in the world could 269 00:13:42,519 --> 00:13:45,479 Speaker 1: be a form of grief and collective grief because we're 270 00:13:45,479 --> 00:13:46,799 Speaker 1: all feeling it at some level. 271 00:13:47,439 --> 00:13:50,999 Speaker 2: M I think that's a really interesting question, particularly when 272 00:13:50,999 --> 00:13:56,959 Speaker 2: we think about grief in the context of loss generally speaking. Yeah, 273 00:13:56,999 --> 00:13:59,639 Speaker 2: I think, as you say, collective grief can be real, 274 00:14:00,039 --> 00:14:04,279 Speaker 2: we can collectively. Certainly, we saw collective grief occur on 275 00:14:04,319 --> 00:14:08,919 Speaker 2: the aftermath of the Bondai terror attack. We see collective 276 00:14:08,959 --> 00:14:12,239 Speaker 2: grief for the young boy involved in the shark attack 277 00:14:12,279 --> 00:14:13,119 Speaker 2: who lost his life. 278 00:14:13,119 --> 00:14:14,519 Speaker 4: You know, we do see. 279 00:14:14,319 --> 00:14:20,359 Speaker 2: These quite active experiences of people coming together and grieving 280 00:14:20,799 --> 00:14:23,959 Speaker 2: but showing their care and concern and compassion for events 281 00:14:23,999 --> 00:14:26,839 Speaker 2: that happen. And I think in the context of that 282 00:14:26,839 --> 00:14:32,279 Speaker 2: that's really powerful for people. Often when people are feeling helpless, right, 283 00:14:32,319 --> 00:14:34,639 Speaker 2: we talked about helplessness as an emotion where we don't 284 00:14:34,639 --> 00:14:38,119 Speaker 2: feel like we have control, people are looking for specific 285 00:14:38,239 --> 00:14:42,639 Speaker 2: and actionable ways that they can be part of contributing 286 00:14:42,679 --> 00:14:46,359 Speaker 2: to the cause, whether that be giving money for a cause, 287 00:14:46,399 --> 00:14:51,879 Speaker 2: whether that be attending a service, remembering people, any kind 288 00:14:51,919 --> 00:14:52,439 Speaker 2: of way. 289 00:14:52,239 --> 00:14:54,279 Speaker 4: In which people can actively be involved. 290 00:14:54,399 --> 00:14:58,159 Speaker 2: That's a really great way for the collective community to 291 00:14:58,239 --> 00:15:01,399 Speaker 2: come together to grieve, but to also instill hope for 292 00:15:01,439 --> 00:15:01,919 Speaker 2: the future. 293 00:15:03,479 --> 00:15:06,119 Speaker 1: After the break, Asia is going to give us a 294 00:15:06,119 --> 00:15:08,279 Speaker 1: bit of a roadmap on how to move from passive 295 00:15:08,279 --> 00:15:14,719 Speaker 1: despair to active hope. Stay with us. So, I feel 296 00:15:14,759 --> 00:15:18,319 Speaker 1: like it's very easy to slip into despair, especially when 297 00:15:18,319 --> 00:15:22,319 Speaker 1: the world feels so overwhelming right now. So my question 298 00:15:22,439 --> 00:15:25,079 Speaker 1: is how do we get out of despair without being 299 00:15:25,079 --> 00:15:26,599 Speaker 1: in denial about what's going on. 300 00:15:27,319 --> 00:15:28,719 Speaker 2: I feel like I've got the weight of the world 301 00:15:28,759 --> 00:15:31,879 Speaker 2: on my shoulders right now, and it's like lead us out. 302 00:15:34,399 --> 00:15:34,639 Speaker 4: Look. 303 00:15:34,719 --> 00:15:40,359 Speaker 2: I think this is where the idea of dialectics comes in. 304 00:15:40,599 --> 00:15:42,199 Speaker 4: I remember if we've spoken about. 305 00:15:42,079 --> 00:15:46,119 Speaker 2: Dialog no, but I like it all right. Dialectics is 306 00:15:46,159 --> 00:15:49,999 Speaker 2: the is the It comes from the ancient Greeks as 307 00:15:50,039 --> 00:15:53,239 Speaker 2: a lot of things. Do agree that on the podcast, 308 00:15:53,359 --> 00:15:56,159 Speaker 2: but it's it's essentially the idea that two things that 309 00:15:56,159 --> 00:15:58,399 Speaker 2: seem to be opposite can both be true at the 310 00:15:58,439 --> 00:16:01,559 Speaker 2: same time. So when we think about the world as 311 00:16:01,559 --> 00:16:04,279 Speaker 2: it is at the moment, we say, on the one hand, 312 00:16:04,759 --> 00:16:07,879 Speaker 2: there are awful things happening. There are sad things happening. 313 00:16:07,879 --> 00:16:11,519 Speaker 2: There is grief, there is crime, there is collective hate. 314 00:16:11,559 --> 00:16:13,239 Speaker 2: You know, we're experiencing a lot of awful things. In 315 00:16:13,239 --> 00:16:17,839 Speaker 2: the world right now. And on the other hand, there's 316 00:16:17,879 --> 00:16:20,679 Speaker 2: a lot of good. There's a lot of love, there's 317 00:16:20,719 --> 00:16:23,959 Speaker 2: a lot of compassion, there's a lot of positive things 318 00:16:23,999 --> 00:16:26,399 Speaker 2: that are happening in the world and people showing up 319 00:16:26,479 --> 00:16:27,919 Speaker 2: in really positive ways. 320 00:16:28,519 --> 00:16:30,559 Speaker 4: And so when we feel caught. 321 00:16:30,399 --> 00:16:33,759 Speaker 2: In the bind, it's important for us to give space 322 00:16:34,479 --> 00:16:40,479 Speaker 2: emotionally for both. Yes, it's hard, it's painful, and it's 323 00:16:40,519 --> 00:16:43,239 Speaker 2: good and there's hope. We don't want to fall into 324 00:16:43,239 --> 00:16:46,359 Speaker 2: the trap of getting stuck in one or the other. 325 00:16:46,759 --> 00:16:49,719 Speaker 2: If we get stuck in how awful things are, we'll 326 00:16:49,719 --> 00:16:51,559 Speaker 2: get really stuck in that and that can lead to 327 00:16:51,599 --> 00:16:54,519 Speaker 2: depression and all sorts of things. On the flip side, 328 00:16:54,639 --> 00:16:56,479 Speaker 2: we don't want to bury our head in the sand. 329 00:16:56,519 --> 00:16:58,159 Speaker 2: We don't want to be in denial, as you said, 330 00:16:58,439 --> 00:17:01,119 Speaker 2: and just be like, you know what, Yes, okay, everything's good, 331 00:17:01,119 --> 00:17:04,919 Speaker 2: everything's fine, it'll all be okay, look at what's happening. Yes, 332 00:17:04,959 --> 00:17:06,599 Speaker 2: we want to acknowledge that, but we've got to give 333 00:17:06,679 --> 00:17:07,479 Speaker 2: room for both. 334 00:17:07,719 --> 00:17:08,079 Speaker 4: Yeah. 335 00:17:08,199 --> 00:17:10,999 Speaker 1: I love this, Like honestly, if I could put my 336 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,199 Speaker 1: slogan on a T shirt, it would be It's always both, 337 00:17:14,759 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 1: you know, because it really is, and I think so 338 00:17:16,799 --> 00:17:20,599 Speaker 1: often we can judge ourselves for the process for going through. 339 00:17:20,679 --> 00:17:23,599 Speaker 1: You know, we might be in the really deep depths 340 00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:26,759 Speaker 1: of grief, but we see other people in joy and happiness, 341 00:17:26,759 --> 00:17:29,759 Speaker 1: and then we feel these things like anger or jealousy 342 00:17:29,879 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 1: or judging them for their experience. 343 00:17:31,719 --> 00:17:32,639 Speaker 4: But I think if we. 344 00:17:32,679 --> 00:17:36,279 Speaker 1: Can all come to the table with okay, everyone has 345 00:17:36,319 --> 00:17:39,599 Speaker 1: their own beautiful processes, and I'm going to honor where 346 00:17:39,639 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: I'm at, and I'm going to honor where that person 347 00:17:41,519 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 1: is at. Man, this world would be such a different place. 348 00:17:43,999 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 4: I agree. 349 00:17:44,999 --> 00:17:46,839 Speaker 2: The other way we can try and hold onto this 350 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 2: idea of a dialectic is thinking about in any given situation, 351 00:17:52,319 --> 00:17:54,519 Speaker 2: there are elements of that situation that are out of 352 00:17:54,519 --> 00:17:57,599 Speaker 2: my control. I can't do anything about them, I can't 353 00:17:57,679 --> 00:18:01,479 Speaker 2: change them. I work to accept them for what they are. So, 354 00:18:01,519 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 2: on the one hand, there are always elements of a 355 00:18:03,199 --> 00:18:07,079 Speaker 2: situation that I need to try and accept. However, there 356 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:10,839 Speaker 2: are also always elements that I do have agency over, 357 00:18:11,319 --> 00:18:14,239 Speaker 2: that I can change and that I can control. And 358 00:18:14,319 --> 00:18:17,199 Speaker 2: so when we feel like we are perhaps stuck in 359 00:18:17,239 --> 00:18:20,559 Speaker 2: those helpless and hopeless feelings, it's important for us to 360 00:18:20,599 --> 00:18:22,839 Speaker 2: acknowledge that. Yes, on the one hand, certain things are 361 00:18:22,919 --> 00:18:26,679 Speaker 2: out of our control, and at the same time, there 362 00:18:26,719 --> 00:18:29,959 Speaker 2: are actions that we can take. And so for anyone 363 00:18:30,399 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 2: listening to this episode, I imagine if you clicked on it, 364 00:18:33,559 --> 00:18:35,999 Speaker 2: you're feeling the heaviness of the world, but you also 365 00:18:36,079 --> 00:18:38,279 Speaker 2: want to know what you can do, both for yourself 366 00:18:38,439 --> 00:18:41,279 Speaker 2: and perhaps for the world. This is where we start 367 00:18:41,319 --> 00:18:44,199 Speaker 2: to think about what is in my control and how can. 368 00:18:44,039 --> 00:18:44,999 Speaker 4: I take some action. 369 00:18:45,599 --> 00:18:50,319 Speaker 2: And one of the most meaningful ways for ourselves that 370 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:54,199 Speaker 2: we can feel like we're taking some action is taking 371 00:18:54,239 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 2: action on a grassroots level. Not necessarily thinking about the 372 00:18:58,399 --> 00:19:00,959 Speaker 2: biggest problems in the world and how we can solve 373 00:19:00,959 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 2: things on a global level, but how can I work 374 00:19:03,919 --> 00:19:08,439 Speaker 2: towards helping progress change in my local backyard. 375 00:19:08,879 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 1: I love that because I think it does kind of 376 00:19:11,199 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 1: what you're talking about around It helps us to activate 377 00:19:14,399 --> 00:19:17,839 Speaker 1: more hope because we're noticing, oh, my actions are creating 378 00:19:17,839 --> 00:19:19,079 Speaker 1: good in the world. 379 00:19:18,839 --> 00:19:21,719 Speaker 2: And if we can see the change, you know, again, 380 00:19:21,719 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 2: I'm going to use the example of a super kitchen. 381 00:19:23,479 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 2: If you can see the impact that it has when 382 00:19:25,479 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 2: you give someone who's in need food or a hot 383 00:19:28,199 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 2: meal or a conversation. When you see that change, you 384 00:19:31,719 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 2: feel more motivated to continue doing that, versus sometimes when 385 00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:38,799 Speaker 2: we might feel like the problem is so big that 386 00:19:38,839 --> 00:19:41,559 Speaker 2: we can't actually see the impact or the change that 387 00:19:41,639 --> 00:19:42,519 Speaker 2: our actions are having. 388 00:19:42,759 --> 00:19:43,599 Speaker 4: Yeah, so true. 389 00:19:43,799 --> 00:19:45,839 Speaker 2: The other thing I want to suggest to people, if 390 00:19:45,879 --> 00:19:47,919 Speaker 2: you're listening along and you are interested in you know, 391 00:19:47,959 --> 00:19:49,719 Speaker 2: what can I do? How can I make a change? 392 00:19:50,159 --> 00:19:52,239 Speaker 2: Think about what's going to be meaningful for you on 393 00:19:52,279 --> 00:19:54,919 Speaker 2: a personal level, because that is certainly going to help 394 00:19:54,999 --> 00:19:57,759 Speaker 2: the cause that you're contributing to, but also spend a 395 00:19:57,879 --> 00:20:02,479 Speaker 2: bit of time looking into what actually makes a meaningful 396 00:20:02,559 --> 00:20:06,519 Speaker 2: impact on an out level. Right, So I'm going to 397 00:20:06,559 --> 00:20:08,479 Speaker 2: give you an example. I read this book. It's called 398 00:20:08,599 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 2: Doing Good Better. Highly recommend it, how of it highly 399 00:20:12,199 --> 00:20:16,279 Speaker 2: highly recommends it. These guys talk about essentially how you 400 00:20:16,319 --> 00:20:20,079 Speaker 2: can contribute in more effective ways if you want to 401 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:21,679 Speaker 2: be contributing in the world. And they talk about this 402 00:20:21,759 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 2: example in Africa, where the goal was to improve school 403 00:20:26,439 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 2: attendance and education. And so one of the I guess 404 00:20:30,479 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 2: kind of ways in which people thought they could help 405 00:20:32,759 --> 00:20:36,239 Speaker 2: was by sending resources textbooks and school supplies and making 406 00:20:36,279 --> 00:20:38,839 Speaker 2: sure there were teachers available. But they weren't finding that 407 00:20:38,879 --> 00:20:41,519 Speaker 2: this was actually having the outcome that they hoped for, 408 00:20:41,919 --> 00:20:44,239 Speaker 2: and so they did all this research and actually what 409 00:20:44,279 --> 00:20:49,079 Speaker 2: they found had the most impact was deworming tablets. 410 00:20:49,559 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 1: What. 411 00:20:50,239 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 4: Yeah, so children. 412 00:20:51,919 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 2: Were missing school because they were unwell, and it was 413 00:20:56,719 --> 00:20:59,799 Speaker 2: a really super cost effective way. It was actually quite 414 00:20:59,879 --> 00:21:03,719 Speaker 2: cheap to through schools give deworming tablets, and it meant 415 00:21:03,719 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 2: that there was a signific can increase in the amount 416 00:21:05,879 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 2: of time kids actually spent at school. And they saw 417 00:21:08,919 --> 00:21:13,799 Speaker 2: that this actually had direct links to children's educational outcomes. 418 00:21:13,879 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 1: Wow, I've never heard of that. 419 00:21:15,559 --> 00:21:17,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I want to I want to share this 420 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:21,519 Speaker 2: story because it's not always the sexy way of contributing 421 00:21:21,559 --> 00:21:24,679 Speaker 2: that actually makes the biggest impact. So I'd encourage people 422 00:21:24,719 --> 00:21:27,159 Speaker 2: to spend time thinking about what can you do, but 423 00:21:27,239 --> 00:21:28,759 Speaker 2: also what's going to have the impact. 424 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,479 Speaker 1: I find as well. A really great tool to use 425 00:21:33,599 --> 00:21:37,039 Speaker 1: as well is practicing gratitude. Now. I used to be 426 00:21:37,159 --> 00:21:39,719 Speaker 1: the type of person where people be like, just be 427 00:21:39,879 --> 00:21:43,199 Speaker 1: grateful and practice gratitude, and I would genuinely ie roll. 428 00:21:43,239 --> 00:21:46,759 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh this gratitude stuff, does this actually work? 429 00:21:47,159 --> 00:21:49,839 Speaker 1: But then that's my own judgment from actually leading into 430 00:21:49,919 --> 00:21:54,039 Speaker 1: what could actually be effective. So I find gratitude, you know, 431 00:21:54,399 --> 00:21:57,039 Speaker 1: three things I'm grateful for. If sometimes that's hard, just 432 00:21:57,079 --> 00:21:59,479 Speaker 1: one thing you're grateful for makes such a big difference. 433 00:22:00,039 --> 00:22:01,799 Speaker 2: The last thing I'm going to add about how we 434 00:22:01,879 --> 00:22:05,159 Speaker 2: can manage the heaviness of the world. Before we talked 435 00:22:05,199 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 2: a little bit about curating the news feed. It's the 436 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,959 Speaker 2: good news stories, as you said, and I'm a huge. 437 00:22:11,679 --> 00:22:14,039 Speaker 4: Fan of you know, there are websites out there. 438 00:22:14,079 --> 00:22:16,599 Speaker 2: One of them is called the Good News Network, and 439 00:22:16,639 --> 00:22:19,559 Speaker 2: it shares good news stories around the world, that's all. 440 00:22:19,799 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 2: And so I was like, I was doing a bit 441 00:22:21,159 --> 00:22:23,239 Speaker 2: of research. I was like, Okay, what could new stories 442 00:22:23,279 --> 00:22:25,559 Speaker 2: have happened recently? And I found a couple to share. 443 00:22:25,799 --> 00:22:27,479 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I can't hear it. We're ready. 444 00:22:27,919 --> 00:22:31,439 Speaker 2: So this one made me laugh, not that it's funny, 445 00:22:31,879 --> 00:22:35,559 Speaker 2: but this one was January the fourteenth news headline this 446 00:22:35,639 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 2: marked the longest period without a nuclear. 447 00:22:38,239 --> 00:22:40,639 Speaker 4: Detonation since the atomic age began. 448 00:22:41,399 --> 00:22:42,999 Speaker 1: What what even is it? 449 00:22:43,399 --> 00:22:47,519 Speaker 2: What about a nuclear detonation? So, like, the good news 450 00:22:47,599 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 2: is we haven't had We've We've had the longest period 451 00:22:50,199 --> 00:22:52,239 Speaker 2: in time since there's been a nuclear detonation. 452 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,039 Speaker 4: So that feels like something to celebrate. 453 00:22:54,199 --> 00:22:56,759 Speaker 1: Oh my god, Okay, I love that there was an 454 00:22:56,999 --> 00:22:59,319 Speaker 1: but wait, what is detonation. I don't know if that's 455 00:22:59,319 --> 00:23:00,079 Speaker 1: a silly question. 456 00:23:00,319 --> 00:23:01,799 Speaker 4: It's like like letting it off. 457 00:23:01,879 --> 00:23:05,039 Speaker 1: Oh so letting it's the not so no new quick 458 00:23:05,159 --> 00:23:05,839 Speaker 1: detonated bomb. 459 00:23:06,199 --> 00:23:07,079 Speaker 4: Get cool. 460 00:23:07,399 --> 00:23:11,599 Speaker 2: The next one was they were giving acupuncture to rescued 461 00:23:11,679 --> 00:23:15,239 Speaker 2: elephants who have chronic pain because they've you know, been 462 00:23:15,279 --> 00:23:17,479 Speaker 2: harmed in some way. So acupuncture has been a really 463 00:23:17,479 --> 00:23:19,199 Speaker 2: effective case way. 464 00:23:18,999 --> 00:23:20,719 Speaker 4: Of reducing pain for elephants. 465 00:23:21,039 --> 00:23:21,479 Speaker 1: There you go. 466 00:23:21,719 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 4: Apparently polar bears. 467 00:23:22,879 --> 00:23:24,959 Speaker 2: Are in better physical shape than they have been for 468 00:23:24,999 --> 00:23:26,759 Speaker 2: twenty five years. 469 00:23:26,759 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 4: Really a win for the polar bears. And I liked 470 00:23:30,479 --> 00:23:30,839 Speaker 4: this one. 471 00:23:30,879 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 2: There's a Swedish pharmaceutical company that are apparently paying employees 472 00:23:35,439 --> 00:23:38,719 Speaker 2: to form like bonds and relationships with people at work 473 00:23:38,839 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 2: in a friend care trial. 474 00:23:40,559 --> 00:23:42,279 Speaker 4: Oh, trying to reduce loneliness. 475 00:23:42,439 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's so nice. Wow, it's really cool 476 00:23:46,159 --> 00:23:48,759 Speaker 1: hearing about all these different things. It's weird because as 477 00:23:48,799 --> 00:23:51,279 Speaker 1: you're saying it, I don't know if I'm just like 478 00:23:51,679 --> 00:23:54,439 Speaker 1: a Debbie Downer, but I'm like, this feels weird in 479 00:23:54,439 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: my brain. When I'm receiving it, I'm like, what's good? 480 00:23:57,959 --> 00:23:58,079 Speaker 1: You know? 481 00:23:58,479 --> 00:24:00,239 Speaker 4: As I scrolled the website. 482 00:24:00,399 --> 00:24:02,599 Speaker 2: The thought that ran through my mind, and I'm going 483 00:24:02,639 --> 00:24:04,439 Speaker 2: to be brutally honest here, I was like, oh, this 484 00:24:04,479 --> 00:24:06,959 Speaker 2: is to be boring. Yeah, I was like, wow, that 485 00:24:07,079 --> 00:24:09,319 Speaker 2: is so reflective of how used to I am of 486 00:24:09,399 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 2: seeing these headlines that are like clickbait and rage baits, 487 00:24:12,439 --> 00:24:15,239 Speaker 2: like streaming at me because they were just like nice. 488 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:16,519 Speaker 4: That is so true. 489 00:24:18,199 --> 00:24:20,959 Speaker 1: Up next, we're mixing things up and doing things a 490 00:24:20,959 --> 00:24:24,079 Speaker 1: little bit different. At the end of our episodes, stay 491 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 1: with us to hear our news segment why we Like This? 492 00:24:31,279 --> 00:24:33,479 Speaker 2: Do you understand how your behavior is confusing? 493 00:24:33,599 --> 00:24:35,959 Speaker 4: Fine? Why are we like this? The best way to 494 00:24:36,039 --> 00:24:38,679 Speaker 4: understand behavior. We'll still look at the causes. 495 00:24:38,239 --> 00:24:38,719 Speaker 2: Of an action. 496 00:24:39,159 --> 00:24:42,239 Speaker 1: So why are we like this? Okay, So this new 497 00:24:42,319 --> 00:24:46,599 Speaker 1: segment is called why we Like This? And with this one, 498 00:24:46,599 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 1: we're gonna have a bit of fun with it. So 499 00:24:48,399 --> 00:24:51,039 Speaker 1: what this looks like is that every week we're going 500 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:55,599 Speaker 1: to unpack a very human behavior. Some can be very relatable, 501 00:24:55,879 --> 00:24:58,039 Speaker 1: some can be very niche, and we're going to unpack 502 00:24:58,079 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: the psychology behind it. So, Anasaga, the first one we've 503 00:25:02,399 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 1: got is all about why do we completely panic when 504 00:25:05,999 --> 00:25:08,239 Speaker 1: someone is watching us? You know, like, let's say our 505 00:25:08,279 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 1: boss is standing behind you and looking at what you're 506 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:12,999 Speaker 1: doing on your screen, and all of a sudden, we've 507 00:25:12,999 --> 00:25:15,919 Speaker 1: forgotten how to type and do something simple like that, Like. 508 00:25:15,839 --> 00:25:19,039 Speaker 4: What is going on there? Yes, I like this one. 509 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:23,599 Speaker 2: We can think here about the evaluation apprehension model. 510 00:25:23,759 --> 00:25:26,599 Speaker 4: Oh fancy term. So for each of. 511 00:25:26,559 --> 00:25:28,439 Speaker 2: These, I'm going to try and come up with a model, 512 00:25:28,479 --> 00:25:31,959 Speaker 2: a concept, a theory, a framework of some sort that 513 00:25:31,999 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 2: exists to explain the behavior. So in this case, it's 514 00:25:34,199 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 2: the evaluation apprehension model. And what this essentially suggests is 515 00:25:38,439 --> 00:25:41,479 Speaker 2: that when we are being watched, when we're doing something, 516 00:25:41,799 --> 00:25:45,679 Speaker 2: we experience arousal. Now when I say arousal, don't mean arousal, 517 00:25:47,199 --> 00:25:52,239 Speaker 2: just to clarify, I mean physiological arousal, which is essentially 518 00:25:52,279 --> 00:25:53,479 Speaker 2: like anxiety in the body. 519 00:25:54,159 --> 00:25:56,719 Speaker 4: And so we come. 520 00:25:56,479 --> 00:25:59,719 Speaker 2: To learn throughout our life that when people watch us 521 00:25:59,759 --> 00:26:02,839 Speaker 2: do something, they might be passing judgment. So essentially what's 522 00:26:02,879 --> 00:26:06,319 Speaker 2: happening here is that our ten is turning away from 523 00:26:06,319 --> 00:26:08,279 Speaker 2: the task we're doing, which might just be you know, 524 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,519 Speaker 2: typing something out on the computer, to suddenly thinking about 525 00:26:11,559 --> 00:26:14,719 Speaker 2: the fact that we might be evaluated while we're doing that. 526 00:26:15,759 --> 00:26:19,559 Speaker 2: And there was this evaluation apprehension model. It's been coined 527 00:26:19,599 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 2: by Nicholas Cottrell in like the nineteen seventies, and he 528 00:26:22,199 --> 00:26:24,239 Speaker 2: did this really famous study where he got people to 529 00:26:24,239 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 2: do a task and they did it under three conditions. 530 00:26:26,919 --> 00:26:30,439 Speaker 2: One condition, they did it on their own, second condition, 531 00:26:30,639 --> 00:26:34,199 Speaker 2: they did it with an audience watching. And third condition, 532 00:26:34,439 --> 00:26:37,679 Speaker 2: they did it with an audience who was blindfolded, so 533 00:26:37,759 --> 00:26:40,719 Speaker 2: they were there but they couldn't see. How fascinating, And 534 00:26:40,759 --> 00:26:44,239 Speaker 2: they found that the results of the task were pretty 535 00:26:44,279 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 2: much the same for when someone was alone and when 536 00:26:46,959 --> 00:26:50,559 Speaker 2: the audience was blindfolded, but when the audience was there watching, 537 00:26:50,679 --> 00:26:53,239 Speaker 2: people did much worse because of the anxiety that would 538 00:26:53,279 --> 00:26:53,759 Speaker 2: come about. 539 00:26:54,079 --> 00:26:56,159 Speaker 1: Wow, it just goes to show as well, like on 540 00:26:56,199 --> 00:26:59,439 Speaker 1: that why people get so scared of public speaking as well. 541 00:26:59,759 --> 00:27:01,479 Speaker 4: Yes, just like that fear of judgment. 542 00:27:01,519 --> 00:27:03,999 Speaker 2: It's real, it is real, the fear of valuation, fear 543 00:27:04,039 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 2: of judgment. But I want to add one kind of 544 00:27:06,199 --> 00:27:09,559 Speaker 2: like clause and caveat to this conversation, and that is 545 00:27:10,039 --> 00:27:16,319 Speaker 2: that arousal anxiety nerves can actually improve our performance. So 546 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 2: there's a saying in this psychology world that arousal improves 547 00:27:19,879 --> 00:27:22,759 Speaker 2: the performance of the dominant response, which just means that 548 00:27:22,839 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 2: when we are very well trained and practiced to execute 549 00:27:26,399 --> 00:27:30,039 Speaker 2: a task, feeling nervous or anxious actually makes us do better. 550 00:27:30,319 --> 00:27:33,239 Speaker 2: So this is why, for example, a runner is more 551 00:27:33,319 --> 00:27:35,959 Speaker 2: likely to get a PB when they're you know, in 552 00:27:35,999 --> 00:27:38,879 Speaker 2: the Olympics versus when they're doing their training at home, 553 00:27:38,919 --> 00:27:41,999 Speaker 2: because the extra anxiety and nerves that they feel doing 554 00:27:42,039 --> 00:27:44,719 Speaker 2: that task will actually help them do it better than 555 00:27:44,719 --> 00:27:45,439 Speaker 2: when they're training. 556 00:27:45,719 --> 00:27:49,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really interesting when we talk about fear of judgment, right, 557 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,319 Speaker 1: because it feels like we're more prone to being judged 558 00:27:51,439 --> 00:27:55,199 Speaker 1: or humiliated right, And it gets me thinking. Just a 559 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,599 Speaker 1: side story, I went and got my blood test done recently, 560 00:27:58,639 --> 00:28:00,719 Speaker 1: and I first of all get so nervous about blood 561 00:28:00,719 --> 00:28:02,399 Speaker 1: It's like, oh, it's just it's. 562 00:28:02,279 --> 00:28:03,159 Speaker 4: Not a good time for me. 563 00:28:03,559 --> 00:28:06,039 Speaker 1: But I went and I got it done biopathologist and 564 00:28:06,039 --> 00:28:06,999 Speaker 1: she seemed really lovely. 565 00:28:06,999 --> 00:28:07,799 Speaker 4: We had a nice chat. 566 00:28:07,839 --> 00:28:10,159 Speaker 1: She's very calm and grounded, and then all of a sudden, 567 00:28:10,479 --> 00:28:12,519 Speaker 1: her supervisor walks in and then I could just tell 568 00:28:12,639 --> 00:28:15,199 Speaker 1: she started to be not herself, like she was a 569 00:28:15,199 --> 00:28:17,999 Speaker 1: little bit dysregulated and a bit nervous. And then after 570 00:28:18,039 --> 00:28:20,239 Speaker 1: the supervisor left, she just was telling me she's like, Oh, 571 00:28:20,279 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: you know, it's funny because even though she's my supervisor 572 00:28:23,399 --> 00:28:25,759 Speaker 1: and I'm really senior in my industry, i still get 573 00:28:25,799 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 1: really nervous and it's just so funny. How like it 574 00:28:28,479 --> 00:28:30,319 Speaker 1: just relates back to everything we're talking. 575 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:31,319 Speaker 4: About happens to everyone. 576 00:28:31,439 --> 00:28:34,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, if you have any other human behaviors you want 577 00:28:34,719 --> 00:28:37,759 Speaker 1: Anastasia to take us through a psych one oh one 578 00:28:37,959 --> 00:28:40,439 Speaker 1: session with, please let us know. Send us a DM 579 00:28:40,439 --> 00:28:50,919 Speaker 1: on Instagram, and voice notes are also welcome, Anastasia. What 580 00:28:50,959 --> 00:28:53,239 Speaker 1: should people be taking away from this episode? 581 00:28:53,599 --> 00:28:54,839 Speaker 4: Well, first of all, if. 582 00:28:54,679 --> 00:28:57,079 Speaker 2: You're feeling like the world is really heavy right now, 583 00:28:57,199 --> 00:29:00,919 Speaker 2: you're not alone. Second, remember that while there are some 584 00:29:01,039 --> 00:29:03,839 Speaker 2: really sad and hard things happening in the world, there 585 00:29:03,879 --> 00:29:06,679 Speaker 2: are also some really good and positive things happening as well. 586 00:29:07,759 --> 00:29:10,119 Speaker 4: Third, choose to read the good. 587 00:29:09,959 --> 00:29:13,039 Speaker 2: News stories like you Puncture for Elephants in the sorts, 588 00:29:13,959 --> 00:29:15,279 Speaker 2: along with keeping. 589 00:29:14,959 --> 00:29:19,639 Speaker 4: Informed about the state of the world. And lastly, take action. 590 00:29:20,519 --> 00:29:23,279 Speaker 2: Choose a cause that feels meaningful to you that you 591 00:29:23,319 --> 00:29:26,039 Speaker 2: care about, and take one small step in the direction 592 00:29:26,119 --> 00:29:27,879 Speaker 2: of contributing to it in a meaningful way. 593 00:29:28,119 --> 00:29:30,279 Speaker 1: If you'd like us to talk about something specific on 594 00:29:30,319 --> 00:29:32,799 Speaker 1: the podcast, please get in touch with us. Links are 595 00:29:32,799 --> 00:29:33,479 Speaker 1: in the show notes. 596 00:29:34,079 --> 00:29:37,399 Speaker 2: And remember, while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't 597 00:29:37,399 --> 00:29:40,759 Speaker 2: a substitute for therapy or a diagnosis. Always take what 598 00:29:40,799 --> 00:29:43,159 Speaker 2: we share here in the context of your own health 599 00:29:43,239 --> 00:29:44,199 Speaker 2: and lived experience. 600 00:29:44,479 --> 00:29:47,399 Speaker 1: Next week, we're going to be talking about happiness because 601 00:29:47,519 --> 00:29:50,319 Speaker 1: our podcast literally talks about whether you're happy or not, 602 00:29:50,839 --> 00:29:52,159 Speaker 1: so tune into that one. 603 00:29:52,719 --> 00:29:55,119 Speaker 2: If anything we talked about today brought up some difficult 604 00:29:55,199 --> 00:29:58,919 Speaker 2: feelings for you, you'll find support resources linked in the show notes, 605 00:29:59,199 --> 00:30:01,959 Speaker 2: and if you need immediate help, there are always organizations 606 00:30:02,079 --> 00:30:04,519 Speaker 2: like Lifeline and Beyond Blue ready to help. 607 00:30:04,919 --> 00:30:06,839 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening and let us know what you think 608 00:30:06,839 --> 00:30:10,199 Speaker 1: about this episode. We're watching our dms on our Instagram page, 609 00:30:10,239 --> 00:30:12,559 Speaker 1: so go check out at butter You Happy Pod. 610 00:30:12,759 --> 00:30:13,639 Speaker 4: See you next time. 611 00:30:13,799 --> 00:30:14,119 Speaker 1: Bye. 612 00:30:15,239 --> 00:30:18,679 Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and 613 00:30:18,759 --> 00:30:21,319 Speaker 2: waters that this podcast is recorded on