Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mama Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on out Louders.
Speaker 1: In case you missed it, we have some really exciting news.
Speaker 1: The Mamma Mia out loud Live twenty twenty five All
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Speaker 1: Louders newsletter. There's a link in the show notes. Hello
Speaker 1: and welcome to.
Speaker 2: Mama Mia out loud. Well women are actually talking about
Speaker 2: On Wednesday, the twenty seventh of November. I'm Holly Waynwright.
Speaker 1: I'm Meya Friedman, and I'm holding space. To my co.
Speaker 3: Hosts, I'm Jesse Stevens, and I am sitting in my
Speaker 3: power of defying gravity. That makes sense later I can.
Speaker 2: Tell on the show Today, the world's in tears and
Speaker 2: holding both space and fingernails for one movie musical? So
Speaker 2: why all the big feelings about Wicked? So a woman
Speaker 2: has waited six years to be able to call one
Speaker 2: of the most famous men in the world her rapist,
Speaker 2: but he's not going to jail, the story of Connor
Speaker 2: McGregor and the Keita Hand and, in an abrupt change
Speaker 2: of direction, why puffy is the adjective women are taking
Speaker 2: to plastic surgeons about their labbya what the actual? But
Speaker 2: first mea Friedman?
Speaker 1: In case you missed it, Donald Trump has a new
Speaker 1: assistant who runs behind his golf card with a portable printer,
Speaker 1: shouting out positive things people have said about him on
Speaker 1: social media.
Speaker 2: Can I get one?
Speaker 1: I've told my assistant to lift her game, and she's
Speaker 1: actually quite fit, so I think she could do that.
Speaker 1: I need to get myself a golf card. I can't
Speaker 1: we find a portable printer.
Speaker 3: The people you have employed over the years, you've not
Speaker 3: found one person who will chase you with printed positive
Speaker 3: I think they can't find any.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 1: A New York Times story this week by the impeccably
Speaker 1: sourced Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swann has reported that thirty
Speaker 1: three year old Natalie Harp used to be on a
Speaker 1: far right cable channel as a kind of personality. She's
Speaker 1: been by his side for a while now, probably a
Speaker 1: good five or six years, even when he was a
Speaker 1: bit out in the wilderness before he ran for reelection
Speaker 1: and won back the presidency. She has a unique role.
Speaker 1: She acts as an informal information conduit to Trump. She
Speaker 1: has no official title, but significant influence. This report says
Speaker 1: part of her duties involved being his social media handler.
Speaker 1: He's not very good with the technology, so he likes
Speaker 1: everything in hard copy, which has earned her the nickname
Speaker 1: among his circle of the human printer, because during the campaign,
Speaker 1: colleagues literally called her this because she'd trail Trump with
Speaker 1: a portable printer and a battery pack, ready to hand
Speaker 1: him hard copies of information.
Speaker 3: You know what she is. She's a hype girl. We
Speaker 3: all have one in our hype girl in our lives.
Speaker 3: You're doing great, great, Look at all the great Sweden.
Speaker 3: Don't listen to those nasty people.
Speaker 2: I just hate this.
Speaker 1: It's a little strange, though, because there are a whole
Speaker 1: lot of letters, devotional letters that she wrote him that
Speaker 1: had been seen by his aides and by the New
Speaker 1: York Times. That raised a few eyebrows because there were
Speaker 1: lines in there like you are all that matters to me,
Speaker 1: and I just want to bring you joy. So a
Speaker 1: few people have been a little bit unnerved about that.
Speaker 1: And she also is a bit of a social media
Speaker 1: chaos agent because she helps Trump post his most impulsive thoughts.
Speaker 1: So she'll be the one he'll go blah blah blah
Speaker 1: blah blah, and she'll be the one that posts it
Speaker 1: to true social or Twitter or wherever it goes. She
Speaker 1: credited Trump with saving her life through a law called
Speaker 1: the right to Try law that he enacted when he
Speaker 1: was president. Last time that was about experimental drugs. She
Speaker 1: said she had bone cancer, and she went on TV
Speaker 1: to say Donald Trump saved my life, which is how
Speaker 1: he heard about her and met her and then employed her.
Speaker 1: But no one can find any details about this cancer
Speaker 1: that she had or any treatment that she actually had.
Speaker 3: She sounds like she's in the right job. Friends. Have
Speaker 3: you been holding space for defying gravity this week?
Speaker 2: It's a lot of words I don't understand.
Speaker 3: Are you feeling power in that? Well? Someone who has
Speaker 3: been holding space as a journalist named Tracy E. Gilchrist,
Speaker 3: who recently interviewed Cynthia Arrivo and Ariana Grande, the stars
Speaker 3: of the new film Wicked. This is definitely one of
Speaker 3: those all or nothing stories. You either know everything about Wicked,
Speaker 3: you've read the nineteen ninety five book it's based on,
Speaker 3: which is a reimagining of the nineteen hundred book The
Speaker 3: Wizard of Oz, which was made into a nineteen thirty
Speaker 3: nine film with Judy Garland, and then Wicked became a
Speaker 3: Broadway musical and now it's a number one movie in
Speaker 3: the world. A bunch of you will know that.
Speaker 1: I didn't know any of that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of people are talking about it.
Speaker 2: How all is Wicked the musical?
Speaker 1: The musical twenty years?
Speaker 2: Yeah, about twenty of those. So it's been around a
Speaker 2: long time, playing on Broadway, playing in the West End, playing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's been to Australia. I think I've seen
Speaker 3: it once in Australia, but I think it's been here
Speaker 3: all the months. Or you are someone who's been biting
Speaker 3: your tongue for the last few weeks because you don't
Speaker 3: know what an alphaba is. You don't know why everyone
Speaker 3: is crying. You'd love to hold space. We all love
Speaker 3: holding space, for defying gravity, but you don't know how
Speaker 3: that is done.
Speaker 1: What space should I hold?
Speaker 3: Exactly? The space? And what is defining gravity? The press
Speaker 3: tour for Wicked has captured worldwide attention, and I've been
Speaker 3: theorizing that this signals the end of cynicism and a
Speaker 3: new dawn of total earnestness. But the press tour reached
Speaker 3: peak press tour with this exchange, and I'd like you
Speaker 3: to both help me decode it. Here's what happened.
Speaker 2: I've seen this week people are taking the lyrics of
Speaker 2: defying gravity and really holding space with that and feeling
Speaker 2: power in that.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that that was happening. I've seen that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really powerful.
Speaker 3: That's why I wanted I don't know that was happening.
Speaker 1: Is that the one where I've seen the meme where
Speaker 1: Ariana Grande is holding Cynthia Arrivo's long fake fingernail while
Speaker 1: they're talking.
Speaker 3: He's just grabbing it. She's just holding clutching out for
Speaker 3: safe Holly, you haven't seen the movie. What do you
Speaker 3: think it means to hold space for define gravity?
Speaker 2: I don't understand it, any of it. Okay, nothing, No,
Speaker 2: I do. I'm being facetious because I did want to
Speaker 2: understand because I've seen it everywhere, and everybody's been crying
Speaker 2: a lot, including people in the Mama Mer office have
Speaker 2: been crying a lot. And I don't have a connection
Speaker 2: to Wicked This is the thing about musicals is you're
Speaker 2: either really connected to a musical or you're not. And
Speaker 2: I understand the emotional connection because I love a musical
Speaker 2: and they are sentimental by nature, and they are earnest
Speaker 2: by nature, because we don't really go around singing our feelings,
Speaker 2: but in a musical you do, right, So I understand
Speaker 2: all that, but I personally don't have a connection. But
Speaker 2: when I read an interview with the journalist Tracy Ilgilchrist,
Speaker 2: because my god, we've got very sort of story within
Speaker 2: a story within a story. Now. She was interviewed by
Speaker 2: a variety about that viral interview, and she explained that
Speaker 2: it was also about the time because Trump had just won,
Speaker 2: Queer people feeling very frightened of what's the head. Musical
Speaker 2: theater very important in queer community, and so she wrote,
Speaker 2: when Cynthia sings I'm through accepting limits, there's power in that.
Speaker 2: And she's playing a character who's othered and one who
Speaker 2: comes into a power when she's exiled by a charlatan
Speaker 2: and a cruel leader.
Speaker 1: So it's all like.
Speaker 2: Being imposed on our on what's going on in the world.
Speaker 2: And that made more sense to me. Is that way
Speaker 2: everyone's crying.
Speaker 3: Yes, But the other element is that what's so funny
Speaker 3: about that interview is that she basically admitted that she
Speaker 3: she'dn't bungle it. But has anyone ever got halfway through
Speaker 3: an interview question realize you don't know where you're going
Speaker 3: and just said something that's weird and then just hoped
Speaker 3: that they pick up. Yeah, that's what happened, because then Cynthia,
Speaker 3: she had this amazing reaction. Gil Christ has said, I
Speaker 3: didn't expect that reaction, and then she said, I've been
Speaker 3: seeing a few things on social she actually did, and
Speaker 3: it was just a friend of.
Speaker 1: What's confusing is what she's reacting to. So let's just
Speaker 1: go back a few steps for people who were like,
Speaker 1: what is going on? Yeah, and why do I need
Speaker 1: to care? The movie is like a prequel to the
Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz, and it's about Glinda the Goodwitch and
Speaker 1: Alpha bar the Wicked Witch who is green in the
Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz movie, and it's their origin story.
Speaker 2: And so the Wicked Witch in the Wizard of Oz,
Speaker 2: the one that I was really scared of as a kid,
Speaker 2: is Alpha Bay.
Speaker 3: And so what the person did this is a fun fact.
Speaker 2: It's like Darth Vader.
Speaker 1: It's like how Alphaba went evil?
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, So the person who wrote the book in
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety five, he was very influenced by the James
Speaker 3: Bolger case in the UK, which was this horrific case
Speaker 3: where two boys took a little boy and killed him,
Speaker 3: and that made him question nature versus nurture and the
Speaker 3: origins of evil. And so he took Alphaba, who was
Speaker 3: seen as this wicked witch, and went, what would happen
Speaker 3: if we reappraise this character? We made her the central
Speaker 3: character and looked at was it a self fulfilling prophecy?
Speaker 3: Calling her evil from the beginning? And that's what Wicked
Speaker 3: is all about.
Speaker 1: So Ariana Grande, of course, is the world famous pop star.
Speaker 1: Cynthia Arrivo is a Tony Award winning, Grammy Award winning
Speaker 1: Musical theater recording artist, actor, but less known. And this
Speaker 1: movie has been in development for a really long time.
Speaker 1: Took them two years to film because they filmed part
Speaker 1: one and part two. So the movie that's out now
Speaker 1: is just part one.
Speaker 2: And it's three hours long.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and part two comes out next November. An we'll
Speaker 1: have another tool now. Jesse and I went to see
Speaker 1: it I knew nothing about Wicked, like really nothing, but
Speaker 1: I'm always interested in hype, and I wanted to understand hype.
Speaker 1: So Jesse and Claire took their cousin Simon to see it.
Speaker 1: I went with Coco, my daughter, who was seeing it
Speaker 1: for the second time. She's a massive Wicked fan, so
Speaker 1: she was one of those people who had felt very emotional.
Speaker 1: I wanted to look at my phone a little bit
Speaker 1: and go outside and maybe get some snacks. She kept
Speaker 1: getting cross with me when I would do.
Speaker 3: Two hours in, we had to leave and get a.
Speaker 1: Snatch a memory of text Holly saying we're still here.
Speaker 2: I went to bed and he was still there.
Speaker 1: Was long and what's happened is the sort of there's
Speaker 1: a whole lot of gossip around the making of the
Speaker 1: movie because that was when Ariana Grandez. It took them
Speaker 1: two years, but arian and Grande's marriage broke down. She
Speaker 1: then started a relationship with one of her co stars
Speaker 1: in the film, Ethan Slater, who plays back from munchkin Land,
Speaker 1: And that wasn't expected. And he was married at the
Speaker 1: time and he had a child, or he'd previously separated
Speaker 1: from his wife and he had a child, so that
Speaker 1: was kind of a whole drama. But the press, too, interestingly,
Speaker 1: hasn't been about any of that. It's been very much
Speaker 1: about the friendship between Ariana and Cynthia. And as you say, Jesse,
Speaker 1: what struck me is the earnestness, the earnestness of the fans,
Speaker 1: the earnestness of the actors, the earnestness of this journalists
Speaker 1: who were usually cynical, and everybody crying and it's easy
Speaker 1: to kind of mock that, but one of the people
Speaker 1: who was crying was our head of entertainment here at
Speaker 1: Mamma Mia, Laura Nick, who hosts our podcast, The Spill,
Speaker 1: and I actually wanted her to explain why she was crying.
Speaker 3: I needed that, like the tears explained, because everyone said
Speaker 3: there was a scene that was making them cry, and yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't have a heart. So I walked out, going
Speaker 3: what scene now?
Speaker 1: And I don't want to make fun of people exactly
Speaker 1: loved it. I just want to understand it. So dragged
Speaker 1: her into the studio after she dried her eyes and
Speaker 1: we just had a little chat about it so she
Speaker 1: could explain. And here's a bit of our conversation.
Speaker 5: As the Wizard and I which is so early in
Speaker 5: the musical came on. I just felt uncontrollable. Sobs start
Speaker 5: in my body, like not a pretty cry, like a
Speaker 5: one tier, but like your whole net goes round, your
Speaker 5: face goes red. And I continued for the two hour
Speaker 5: and forty minutes of the rest of the movie.
Speaker 1: And what were you crying about?
Speaker 5: This is the thing. It's not the movie itself, although
Speaker 5: that's really beautiful, but it's the history of it, I think,
Speaker 5: is why people are getting so emotional.
Speaker 1: History isn't that long. It's not like it's from.
Speaker 5: Twenty years that's more than half my life.
Speaker 1: I guess it is a long time for you. What
Speaker 1: is it about the history that feels like it's some
Speaker 1: triumph over adversity. Isn't it just a movie that's been
Speaker 1: in development for a really long time. And no, it's
Speaker 1: not the.
Speaker 5: Movie that people are crying over. I'm sure some people are.
Speaker 5: I'm not the kind of person who cries in a
Speaker 5: movie because you've only spent a few hours with the characters,
Speaker 5: and while it can be a bit emotional, you get
Speaker 5: like a bit of a tear in the eye. I
Speaker 5: think that sobbing has to come from years of build up,
Speaker 5: and so it's actually from the stage show and people
Speaker 5: remembering the first time they saw it, or the first
Speaker 5: time they travel to see it with family, or playing
Speaker 5: the soundtrack three moments of their life. Like, that's what
Speaker 5: it is for me. When I had my first job
Speaker 5: and I was earning no money, I use pretty much
Speaker 5: my entire paycheck to fly to Melbourne to see Wicked
Speaker 5: on stage for the first time, and I had no
Speaker 5: money for the rest of the month, and I had
Speaker 5: to steal a piece of bread from the newspaper I
Speaker 5: was working at every day to toast on the way home.
Speaker 5: But like, no regrets because that was such an incredible experience.
Speaker 1: There are lots of musicals around though I saw La
Speaker 1: Mis when I was young. I saw Rent. I love
Speaker 1: a musical, But like when I saw the movie of Lems,
Speaker 1: I didn't sam uncontrollably well.
Speaker 5: I mean, I think that's between you and your musical.
Speaker 4: God.
Speaker 5: Everyone has a different emotional reaction to something, but I
Speaker 5: think with Wicked there's a few different layers there. One
Speaker 5: is that the story is so good, and I think
Speaker 5: people really relate to that. It is mea don't pull
Speaker 5: that through.
Speaker 1: What's so good about it? Though?
Speaker 5: It's a story I think that centers a really complex
Speaker 5: female friendship in a way that we really don't see,
Speaker 5: not in theater, but also rarely in movies and TV shows.
Speaker 5: Also the love story that kind of unexpected enemies to lovers.
Speaker 5: And also Alphabet is just a character that I think
Speaker 5: so many people relate to because she is such an outsider.
Speaker 5: She is green, but more so than that, she is
Speaker 5: an outsider, she's an underdog. And she doesn't have a
Speaker 5: makeover and become a different person. She just becomes a
Speaker 5: hero from a different way. I understand how it becomes
Speaker 5: more witchy. Yes, well, she becomes a like a champion
Speaker 5: for the people. But all that's making it sound so worthy,
Speaker 5: I think like in a way that you feel writing
Speaker 5: an essay about why you would like Wicked. But I
Speaker 5: think most people who love it don't love it because
Speaker 5: of that. They love it because of the story and
Speaker 5: the characters. And it's one of the rare musicals where
Speaker 5: you could take the song which I wouldn't recommend because
Speaker 5: the songs are amazing, but it stands alone without the songs.
Speaker 5: It's about the characters.
Speaker 2: I totally get all that right. I do cry when
Speaker 2: I watch le Mith. Oh, I cry when I watch Hamilton.
Speaker 2: Think about all the people you know who have like
Speaker 2: outsize connections to kind of Disney musical songs and stuff.
Speaker 2: It's a marriage of nostalgia and the sort of bold
Speaker 2: strokes storytelling that you get in musicals, like very simplistic
Speaker 2: good bad. How to push emotional buttons with sounds and
Speaker 2: songs and lyrics totally makes sense. And you know, I
Speaker 2: was thinking about because, as I said before, I don't
Speaker 2: have an emotional connection to Wicked, because I just don't
Speaker 2: have one. But if they made a live action version
Speaker 2: of Hamilton, which I've seen a million times. You know,
Speaker 2: I've listened to Hamilton in the Car a million times.
Speaker 2: I've watched the live show a million times. If they
Speaker 2: dramatized it into a seven hour movie experience, I would
Speaker 2: be deeply invested. Who's going to play Angelica, Who's going
Speaker 2: to play Lafayette? I would be deeply into it, And
Speaker 2: I'd cry when they sang burn and I would be
Speaker 2: a million times you've.
Speaker 3: Been looking for the Easter eggs, which is the other
Speaker 3: element of this is the way you can watch it.
Speaker 3: Depending on your level of investment in Wicked. Law is variable.
Speaker 3: But the other reason I think this is different is
Speaker 3: because of what it says about bullying, an ostracization, like
Speaker 3: good story, if you've ever felt ostracized, if you've ever
Speaker 3: felt like you look different or you're marginalized, like an outsider.
Speaker 2: Which is what that journalist was saying about. Yeah, everybody's
Speaker 2: laughing about holding space for defying gravity, but in a
Speaker 2: moment where you feel like being an outsider is very
Speaker 2: much a dangerous place to be, this feels validating.
Speaker 3: Exactly, And to have someone extend their hand to you
Speaker 3: who does have some sort of social currency can feel
Speaker 3: life changing, like it made me feel like a girl.
Speaker 2: The cynic in me, though, does want to know how
Speaker 2: you take a two hour stage musical and turn it
Speaker 2: into a two part three hour even a time that
Speaker 2: goes on over two years, because the cynic in me says,
Speaker 2: for one very simple reason, yes, to make lots and
Speaker 2: lots and lots and lots of money.
Speaker 3: So the thing that I compared this to when Claara
Speaker 3: and I walked out was Harry Potter. So Harry Potter,
Speaker 3: remember the last movie they split it into two Harry
Speaker 3: Potter fans were satisfied by that and wicked fans will
Speaker 3: be satisfied by this. It felt very Harry Potter in
Speaker 3: the development of the world. This adds more than what
Speaker 3: the stage production does because the book is long, there
Speaker 3: are so many threads, and it goes into the background
Speaker 3: of Alpheber's life and pads it out more so imagine
Speaker 3: watching a Hamilton musical, but it gives you more like
Speaker 3: it's something that you know, adds extra.
Speaker 2: Scenes, and it's got more backstory for certain characters. But
Speaker 2: I really admired the commitment of the press tour. I
Speaker 2: admired the fact that they were always apparently addressed in character. Yep,
Speaker 2: they pretty much stayed in character it appeared, and they
Speaker 2: were deeply invested in the experience in a way that
Speaker 2: I understand if you spent like five years of your
Speaker 2: life rehearsing, filming making the thing, you'd want to hope
Speaker 2: that shit.
Speaker 3: I'm in awe of how it's worked because this might
Speaker 3: look on paper like a sure thing, but the success
Speaker 3: of Wicked was not a sure thing. Remember Cats. It
Speaker 3: was also by Universe Musicals, a cotal flop. I think
Speaker 3: West Side Story didn't do what they wanted it to do.
Speaker 3: This had an enormous budget, it needed to work, and
Speaker 3: I reckon, you know, they've sat in a room and gone,
Speaker 3: how can we make this go viral? And the press tour,
Speaker 3: I think that that's contributed enormously to the success.
Speaker 2: They've been working hard for their money, because my god,
Speaker 2: that tour feels like it's been going on for six months.
Speaker 1: There are two things that I took away from it.
Speaker 1: The first is that we always laugh at things that
Speaker 1: women and girls enjoy. We always mock them, we always
Speaker 1: deride them, whether it's you know, fandom and people who
Speaker 1: go to concerts, whether they were screaming for the Beatles
Speaker 1: or crying about Taylor Swift or one direction. And the
Speaker 1: other thing is it's made me see how the downside
Speaker 1: of it is calling it earnestness, but you could also
Speaker 1: say it's genuine. It's not cynical. It's like people are
Speaker 1: just not going and trying to be clever and they're
Speaker 1: not trying to be Oh yeah, it was a movie
Speaker 1: and it was this and blah blah. It was like
Speaker 1: everyone's like, no, I loved this, I loved making this,
Speaker 1: and people are like I loved watching this. I love this,
Speaker 1: And there's no satire or wink or wanting to be cool,
Speaker 1: like there's no cool girl about it at all.
Speaker 3: I like that, Yeah, yeah, very you know what it is.
Speaker 3: It's also the full embrace of the theater kid. It's
Speaker 3: like the theater kid has felt marginalized and ostracized. And
Speaker 3: I think this is why it struck such a chord
Speaker 3: with the queer community as well, because it's not cool
Speaker 3: to try it, because it's not cool to try And
Speaker 3: when you look at Cynthia and Ariana and the way
Speaker 3: that they speak to people, it is so theater kid.
Speaker 3: Like some of us who are not theater kids, because
Speaker 3: we can't sing to save our lives.
Speaker 1: It seems silly.
Speaker 3: We just go why is everyone crying? Which I think
Speaker 3: is still a valid response, and that's why it does
Speaker 3: feel earnest and I think I think the fan reaction
Speaker 3: is genuine. I think that these two women are vaguely
Speaker 3: still character I think that there is something about them
Speaker 3: that works. They've seen the disaster of the It Ends
Speaker 3: with Us press tour, Madam Webb was when Dakota Johnson
Speaker 3: went on tour and basically admitted to hating the movie.
Speaker 1: But I think they're fans. I mean, that's what's really clear.
Speaker 1: And is Arianna was saying, people in my team said
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have to audition because you know, and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh no, you don't understand. Everyone has to audition,
Speaker 1: and everyone did have to audition.
Speaker 2: But she's been singing those songs since she was a child,
Speaker 2: because I've seen the videos. She's literally been singing those
Speaker 2: songs since she was a child. So it meant a lot.
Speaker 2: So it wasn't just another gig.
Speaker 6: Yeah out loud as.
Speaker 1: If you want to listen to us every day of
Speaker 1: the week, you can get access to exclusive segments on
Speaker 1: Tuesdays and Thursdays by becoming a Muma mea subscriber. Follow
Speaker 1: the link in the show notes to subscribe and support us.
Speaker 1: And a big thank you to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 4: Lastly, I wanted to tank my door Freyer, who I'm
Speaker 4: most grateful for. She has given me so much strength
Speaker 4: and courage over the last six years throughout this nightmare
Speaker 4: to keep on pushing forward for justice. I want to
Speaker 4: show Freyer and every other girl I'm by that you
Speaker 4: can stand up for yourself if something happens to you,
Speaker 4: no matter who the person is, and justice will be served.
Speaker 2: A thirty five year old Irish hairdresser speaking outside Dublin's
Speaker 2: High Court after a civil case ruled that she had
Speaker 2: been sexually and physically assaulted by Connor McGregor, an MMA superstar. Now,
Speaker 2: if you don't know who he is, a very top
Speaker 2: line view. He is a boxer and a mixed martial
Speaker 2: arts fighter whose fame has reached the kind of level
Speaker 2: that means he now stars in Hollywood movies. Earlier this
Speaker 2: year he was in Roadhouse with Jake Chillenhall, which was
Speaker 2: a remake of the classic Patrick Swayzey movie, and he
Speaker 2: and Jillenhall did all the usual promotional rounds. They went
Speaker 2: on big note podcasts like Armchair Expert, and they were
Speaker 2: interviewed playing with puppies on BuzzFeed, and they were very
Speaker 2: much like Connor was very much sort of being morphed
Speaker 2: a little bit into he's a Hollywood superstar. Now you
Speaker 2: could imagine him being in action movies like Jason Staith
Speaker 2: and you.
Speaker 3: Know that kind of stuff, like a Dwayne the Rock Johnson.
Speaker 3: I think that's kind of johnsena The Vision. A couple
Speaker 3: of years ago, he was ranked the highest paid athlete
Speaker 3: in the world by Forbes, bringing in a reported one
Speaker 3: hundred and eighty million dollars. He is a major draw
Speaker 3: card for MMA, and that industry is becoming increasingly successful
Speaker 3: and important in the manosphere. Bros like Joe Rogan love it.
Speaker 3: It's a business worth around twelve billion and he is
Speaker 3: one of the biggest deals within that business.
Speaker 1: So is MMA Mixed martial arts? Is it like a
Speaker 1: more full on form of boxing.
Speaker 2: Yes, because you can kick, you can although you can
Speaker 2: fly at people like it's it's sort of more dynamically.
Speaker 1: Boxing rules faster, and it's a big deal.
Speaker 2: Nikita Hand, by contrast, was a young single mum in
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen when she was out at a Christmas party
Speaker 2: and was invited back to McGregor's hotel to kick on
Speaker 2: after last drinks. She knew him a little bit in Dublin,
Speaker 2: her family knew his partner's family, she alleges, and the
Speaker 2: civil case judge now agrees that at those drinks she
Speaker 2: rejected his sexual advances that night, but he pinned her
Speaker 2: to a bed, placed in a chokehold, and assaulted her.
Speaker 2: She went straight to emergency. A paramedic who examined Nikita
Speaker 2: in the aftermath told the court that she had not
Speaker 2: seen someone so bruised in a long time. McGregor has
Speaker 2: always said that the sex was consensual. In the six
Speaker 2: years since, prosecutors declined to bring charges against McGregor on
Speaker 2: this case, citing insufficient evidence and unlikely chance at conviction,
Speaker 2: I just don't understand.
Speaker 1: I know, I'm not a lawyer or a judge, and
Speaker 1: I also understand that different people like different types of sex.
Speaker 1: But in terms of just basic logic and plausibility, for
Speaker 1: a woman to have allegedly had consensual sex and be
Speaker 1: so bruised that she had to go to a hospital,
Speaker 1: what woman would have consented to that?
Speaker 2: Indeed, Nikita has been labeled a fraud, a gold digger,
Speaker 2: and she even had a gang of masked men break
Speaker 2: into her home, smash her windows, and stab her boyfriend. Still,
Speaker 2: over these six years, she chose to keep fighting and
Speaker 2: the only option left to her was to bring a
Speaker 2: civil case against McGregor, which she did and she won.
Speaker 2: And that's where we are. That's what you heard her
Speaker 2: talking about that at the beginning of this Now what's
Speaker 2: interesting to me is that we're seeing more and more
Speaker 2: sexual assault cases going to civil trial. Donald Trump and
Speaker 2: Bruce Lehman are two other high profile men found guilty
Speaker 2: in those circumstances, and I want to know if it
Speaker 2: kind of has the same impact. Obviously, the reason that
Speaker 2: a civil case might be successful criminal case might not
Speaker 2: is that it does not need to be proven beyond
Speaker 2: a reasonable doubt, but on the balance of probabilities that
Speaker 2: it happens. So, for example, Mia, what you just said about, like,
Speaker 2: if this woman was this badly hurt like that is
Speaker 2: more likely to be considered closely in a civil case
Speaker 2: than in a criminal case.
Speaker 3: Right, and criminal case you go to prison yep, and
Speaker 3: civil case yet Okay, So.
Speaker 2: A criminal case can send a man to jail and
Speaker 2: a civil case cannot. And also a criminal case has
Speaker 2: to be brought kind of by the state or the crown,
Speaker 2: and a civil case is brought by the accuser. So
Speaker 2: Nakida hand has brought this case against Conor McGregor, right,
Speaker 2: But in the case of McGregor, who has been accused
Speaker 2: of sexualisconduct at least three times before, I want to
Speaker 2: understand if a finding like this has a similar level
Speaker 2: of impact on his reputation, because if he's had this reputation,
Speaker 2: everyone's known this case is hanging around. We know these
Speaker 2: other allegations have been hanging around it. Obviously, wasn't stopping
Speaker 2: his advancement into a Hollywood career and stuff, or impacting
Speaker 2: his fireding credentials, or stopping him from opening a brewery,
Speaker 2: owning lots of businesses, all the things he does. I
Speaker 2: don't care personally about this man's ability to remain an
Speaker 2: incredibly wealthy and influential person, But I want to know
Speaker 2: if this is an effective recourse when we know how
Speaker 2: difficult criminal charges are to get up. Is this a
Speaker 2: good option and does it change everything for econom McGregor Jesse.
Speaker 3: They probably won't. I'm thinking back to the civil case
Speaker 3: that Amber heard won. Remember she won a civil case
Speaker 3: against Johnny Depp before the other case that we saw
Speaker 3: that played out all over TikTok, and that was basically
Speaker 3: barely a footnote in any of it. Look, it's made
Speaker 3: an immediate difference for Conor McGregor in that he has
Speaker 3: been dropped by the whiskey company he co owns, which
Speaker 3: is a significant financial hit. That's where a lot of
Speaker 3: his money has come from. And he's been removed from
Speaker 3: a video game he was featured in.
Speaker 2: Which is big business. It's worth noting that we might
Speaker 2: go like, oh, video game that's not like a movie,
Speaker 2: but actually bigger, there's more money in it. There's a
Speaker 2: character based on him that looks like him and is
Speaker 2: him in a game called Hitman, and that's a big
Speaker 2: deal way that people make money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when I went to IMDb to look at his
Speaker 1: you know, acting credits and stuff, most of them, apart
Speaker 1: from Roadhouse, most of them were for video games, including
Speaker 1: Call of Duty, and so I didn't realize what a
Speaker 1: big deal that was. That's really interesting.
Speaker 3: It also a great Crisis organization in Ireland called for
Speaker 3: the Whiskey Company to separate themselves from him because to
Speaker 3: walk in and see Conor McGregor's face everywhere, when he
Speaker 3: has now been found in a court of law, in
Speaker 3: this civil court, to you know, have done this to
Speaker 3: a woman that obviously says something, well, it's a.
Speaker 1: Little bit hard to expect any kind of justice for
Speaker 1: Nikita or any kind of consequence for Connor when the
Speaker 1: current President of the United States, newly elected, was found
Speaker 1: liable of the same thing. The thing a civil case
Speaker 1: in America.
Speaker 3: The thing this does do for victims, which I think
Speaker 3: is signal, is that financial compensation means that if you
Speaker 3: are suffering from PTSD, if you have likely you can't work.
Speaker 3: When you're doing a court case like this, you can't.
Speaker 3: You absolutely can't work. She's trying to raise a daughter
Speaker 3: on her own. She has suffered enormously.
Speaker 1: I think the costs of a cookcase.
Speaker 3: Yes, I hope that that is some sort of you know,
Speaker 3: renumeration for.
Speaker 2: Watching interestingly, So she got awarded around the equivalent of
Speaker 2: four hundred thousand Australian dollars, which obviously is a lot
Speaker 2: of money, but it's not an enormous amount of money
Speaker 2: in the scheme of things. And McGregor obviously has continues
Speaker 2: to deny it and say he's going to appeal. And
Speaker 2: he said, oh, the modest amount that was given to
Speaker 2: her shows how the case was a bit you know,
Speaker 2: that's his position, right. It's a very fair point Mia
Speaker 2: that when the President of the United States was found
Speaker 2: liable in a very similar circumstance, it's hard to imagine consequences,
Speaker 2: but it does have more serious reputational damage than just
Speaker 2: the allegation sloating around, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Like if Roadhouse was coming out now, it would be
Speaker 2: hard to imagine watching him playing with puppies on BuzzFeed
Speaker 2: or sitting down with big names like Dax Shephard or whatever.
Speaker 2: In an interview situation, you would imagine the calls to
Speaker 2: the publicist would be a bit more like, we don't
Speaker 2: want Connor and that, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It would be hard to not ask him about this.
Speaker 1: If you're a credible journalist or media company, the money
Speaker 1: itself is never going to be enough to make up
Speaker 1: for you know, Nikita's had a house set on fire.
Speaker 2: She said she fared for her life and the life
Speaker 2: of her family for a long time.
Speaker 1: You can only imagine. But what I thought was interesting,
Speaker 1: which I sort of hadn't registered, is that in a
Speaker 1: criminal case, that's up to the state, Whereas so much
Speaker 1: of what the victims of crime will say is that
Speaker 1: the powerlessness that they feel. And I've had some small
Speaker 1: experience in this myself, and I would echo that feeling.
Speaker 1: But when you take a civil action, you've got the power.
Speaker 1: And the problem is that people will say she's just
Speaker 1: doing it for the money, because that's the criticism that
Speaker 1: can be leveled in a civil case. But at what cost,
Speaker 1: you know, well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the fact that she kept going after all of
Speaker 3: those threats. And the other thing about a civil case
Speaker 3: is that there are now details on the public record, yeah,
Speaker 3: that I think we will never forget. There are details
Speaker 3: in this case that Holly, you didn't read out because
Speaker 3: they're quite distressing, but they are damning and I can't
Speaker 3: look at Connor McGregor's face without thinking about them.
Speaker 2: His supporters, and you'll see some of these headlines around
Speaker 2: now are saying the cancelation of Connor McGregor has begun.
Speaker 2: It's witch hunt, blah blah blah. But actually, in this case,
Speaker 2: the reputational damage obviously from where I sit, I'm like,
Speaker 2: bring it on.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And he was sitting in the witness stand and
Speaker 3: some journalists described it as watching his mask slip. You
Speaker 3: could see moments where the rage came out, where he
Speaker 3: said horrific things. The same thing happened actually with Mike Tyson,
Speaker 3: who was found guilty of a criminal case. He was
Speaker 3: convicted of rape in nineteen ninety two. I think he's
Speaker 3: an important case study because he wasn't caussed in the hangover.
Speaker 3: Five months after he got out of prison, he served
Speaker 3: time for this. Five months after that he was fighting
Speaker 3: again and just recently and.
Speaker 1: Acting again in a funny, lovable role in a family
Speaker 1: kind of a film.
Speaker 3: Recently, he fought Jake Paul in what was one of
Speaker 3: the most watched I think sporting events of all time.
Speaker 3: In all of my reading and all of the coverage,
Speaker 3: you barely even saw. Oh, this man is a convicted
Speaker 3: rapist that barely barely came up and he has also
Speaker 3: been accused by his ex wife of violence. Yes, so
Speaker 3: there are a lot of men you know walking among us.
Speaker 3: I would say Mike Tyson is the most famous convicted
Speaker 3: rapist and that has barely damaged his reputation. If this
Speaker 3: has raised any issues for you, or if you feel
Speaker 3: like you need to speak to someone, help is available.
Speaker 3: Please take care and contact Lifeline or Respect. We will
Speaker 3: pop links to those resources in our show notes.
Speaker 1: In case you missed it. Chat GPT is helping you
Speaker 1: figure out what to buy your family or friends or
Speaker 1: teacher at school for Christmas. If you don't know what
Speaker 1: to get someone as a Christmas gift. I always find
Speaker 1: this so hard, and the default of a cented candle
Speaker 1: just doesn't cut it. After this many years of scented candles,
Speaker 1: no one wants I love.
Speaker 2: But only if they're fancy, don't check on.
Speaker 3: I always end up googling lists and I end up
Speaker 3: on some website that probably has affiliate links that goes,
Speaker 3: you should buy your husband a beard oil, and I'm like,
Speaker 3: that's beard oil, a beard oil, and I'm like, this
Speaker 3: isn't right. So chat GPT I feel like could be
Speaker 3: a step up.
Speaker 1: Also because gifts I love language, I don't care about them.
Speaker 1: I don't like buying gifts for people. I prefer buying
Speaker 1: gifts and myself, and you don't need chat GPT for that.
Speaker 1: But anyway, what people are doing is going to chat GPT,
Speaker 1: which you can download as an app, and.
Speaker 3: You can also use it just as a website, which
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 1: So you need to describe what the person is like,
Speaker 1: maybe what they're interested in. I also put in price
Speaker 1: point for you too, so.
Speaker 3: The prompt was a sorry point.
Speaker 1: The prompts that I.
Speaker 3: Did for you both under twenty dollars, well, that was awkward,
Speaker 3: wasn't it.
Speaker 1: So I said, what should I buy for Christmas for
Speaker 1: my female friend who is fifty three, lives in regional
Speaker 1: New South Wales and loves gardening. I want to spend
Speaker 1: less than one hundred dollars fifty two. I'm sorry no,
Speaker 1: but by Christmas. Yeah, they will be correct. And some
Speaker 1: of the things that it suggested, like some of them
Speaker 1: were fairly predictable. Gave me maybe twenty ideas right with subheadings, Yeah,
Speaker 1: with subheadings under like practical gardening gifts. Some of them
Speaker 1: were very boring, like gardening tool set or gardening gloves
Speaker 1: or no personalized garden tool tote. What. Then there were
Speaker 1: like decorative gifts like garden wind chimes and plant markers, whatever,
Speaker 1: books and inspiration, unique and fun ideas, experience or subscription gifts.
Speaker 1: There's so many different things.
Speaker 3: I'm smarter than you because what I typed in is
Speaker 3: my prompt was what should I buy Holly Wainwright?
Speaker 1: That's what I did. I said, what should I buy?
Speaker 4: Beer?
Speaker 3: Freedman, I watched I buy Holly wayIn Wright and GPT
Speaker 3: know who we are? Well, I thought they did, but
Speaker 3: it said. Holly Wainwright is a well known Australian author
Speaker 3: and podcast host, particularly recognized for her work with Muma
Speaker 3: Maya and her books including The Mummy Bloggers and I
Speaker 3: Give My Mummy a B plus.
Speaker 2: This is why we can't entirely trust the robots.
Speaker 1: That's one of lessons in the world. Now it's just
Speaker 1: a little bit wrong because GPT is really good, but
Speaker 1: not really really good.
Speaker 3: It's just to be clear. That book's called I Give
Speaker 3: My Marriage a Year, but it gave me some really
Speaker 3: good idea.
Speaker 5: Plus, that's my next book.
Speaker 3: It sounds really interesting, like you've got a subpar money. Okay,
Speaker 3: so a custom weather journal I think you wouldn't mind it,
Speaker 3: a writer's retreat voucher, oh yeah, luxury skin cassette, Yes,
Speaker 3: literary themed home decoor, or a framed print with a
Speaker 3: quote from one of her favorite authors. It also said,
Speaker 3: rather specifically on a link.
Speaker 2: Or actually, that I would be into that.
Speaker 1: It's funny if she's a basic fifty two year old.
Speaker 1: I had been exactly the same.
Speaker 2: I said what should I buy mere Freedman, and they
Speaker 2: gave me all me as credentials. I didn't really check
Speaker 2: to see if they were right. They say things like,
Speaker 2: because Mia is a busy professional mother, she would enjoy
Speaker 2: a chance to unwind. I was like, this is where
Speaker 2: chat GPT doesn't know mea at all, because he thinks
Speaker 2: she should have a wellness retreat or a spa day.
Speaker 2: And they also think that you should have tickets to
Speaker 2: an event. I was like, no, you really really don't
Speaker 2: need that, or suggested buying you tickets to your own
Speaker 2: s tickets still alive podcast recording, perhaps a Mom and
Speaker 2: mea podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm like, she would have liked that. That would be bad. Guys,
Speaker 1: you should buy me that you might be able to
Speaker 1: get mates rates. That was interesting was my prompts for you, Jesse,
Speaker 1: because I sat there for a really long time. I
Speaker 1: started with gift ideas for my thirty three year old
Speaker 1: female friend, and then I was thinking of what your
Speaker 1: hobbies were? Can I sat there for so much and
Speaker 1: I was like, she doesn't understand fashion. No, So I
Speaker 1: settled on my friend who likes true crime and has
Speaker 1: an eighteen month old daughter called Luna.
Speaker 3: Think about you, Yeah, how old is she? Sixteen months?
Speaker 3: Didn't come up with anything good? What are you getting me?
Speaker 1: A true crime puzzle? And then there's a sub section
Speaker 1: true crime themed candle Who knew there were such things?
Speaker 2: Oh wow, murder candles.
Speaker 1: With fun names like forensic files and Chill Jesus. And
Speaker 1: then there was a section on for you and Luna
Speaker 1: matching pajamas, which I thought was.
Speaker 3: H you got that for us last year you got
Speaker 3: a snatching pajamas.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Then there's like relaxation and fun for mum, A cozy blanket,
Speaker 1: a soft throw for smuggling up during true crime binge
Speaker 1: s Oh my gosh. Okay, we don't need chutching to
Speaker 1: tell us this stuff.
Speaker 3: I wrote in what do I get my mother in law?
Speaker 4: For me?
Speaker 3: It suggested customized jewelry, A customized calendar with pictures of
Speaker 3: the family. So January is my faith, my faith, but
Speaker 3: this is my favorite.
Speaker 1: There's lots of pitches of Jesse, not lunar, just Jesse.
Speaker 3: This was my favorite. A memory jar. Fill a jar
Speaker 3: with notes about things you appreciate about her, memorable moments. Words,
Speaker 3: you're a bitch, the other time you're a bit.
Speaker 1: That time you came and throughout all my daughter's clothes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: at that time you got a fringe when I was
Speaker 1: in labor to pull focus.
Speaker 2: We have actually got one serious gift suggestion for all
Speaker 2: of you out louders.
Speaker 3: Because chatjpt actually thinks the subscription is a really good gift.
Speaker 3: Did it came up? I think for all of us
Speaker 3: and for Black Friday, Mumma Maya is giving you the
Speaker 3: biggest discount we've ever offered on a subscription. Right now,
Speaker 3: you can get thirty three dollars off a yearly subscription,
Speaker 3: bringing the whole thing down to just thirty six dollars
Speaker 3: for a year. This means full access to all the
Speaker 3: stories the shows, including to Mumma mea out Loud bonus
Speaker 3: segments a week. But this deal is not forever, so
Speaker 3: don't miss out. Use the code out Loud Friday. You
Speaker 3: can head to the link in our show notes for
Speaker 3: all the details.
Speaker 2: We are actually all chat GPT assistance aside putting together
Speaker 2: a Muma Mea Out Loud gift guide, and it is
Speaker 2: going to be in the newsletter, yet another reason to
Speaker 2: sign up if you haven't early access to the tour
Speaker 2: and also a gift guide. There'll be a link in
Speaker 2: the show notes for how to do that.
Speaker 4: Maybe Eura.
Speaker 3: Then coming off sign.
Speaker 1: Hold onto your labbier friends because someone wants to inject
Speaker 1: it with filler stop it, or you can hold onto
Speaker 1: a friends LaBier if you prefer.
Speaker 3: Let's just say is lip filler. Yes, we've been getting
Speaker 3: an alley your other lips kind.
Speaker 1: I learned all about this this week. It's called labbier puffing,
Speaker 1: and it is. I don't want to say it's a
Speaker 1: beauty trend because I don't only give it that power.
Speaker 1: It's a thing that some people are doing.
Speaker 3: It's on the rise. I looked into this because you
Speaker 3: know how I feel about giving women in securities hy securities.
Speaker 3: But then I was looking at it and it originated
Speaker 3: in kind of the early two thousands, and it is
Speaker 3: on the rise. And there's a reason. They think it's why.
Speaker 2: Do we need our labia to be puffy?
Speaker 1: Well, let me first tell you what labbier puff is.
Speaker 1: They call it a non surgical I think that means
Speaker 1: there's no cutting with a scalpel. But it's an injection
Speaker 1: of filler, as you say, into the labbia labia majora.
Speaker 1: And the reason for it is to plump and smooth
Speaker 1: the outer labbia labia majora, to give it a more
Speaker 1: youthful and volution appearance, which is a relief, frankly, because
Speaker 1: my biggest concern in this year of our Lord twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four has been my deflated labia.
Speaker 2: I thought, so just looking a bit sad and saggy
Speaker 2: and sort it out.
Speaker 3: Well, Apparently the reason that this is on the rise
Speaker 3: is because a generation of women got all their hair
Speaker 3: laysered off, and now they are looking in the mirror
Speaker 3: and they can see it. Whereas our grandmothers, our great grandmothers,
Speaker 3: they didn't.
Speaker 1: Know, No, they had a bush. It was a bushy.
Speaker 3: I saw someone describe it as like a deflated sock,
Speaker 3: Like that's what they felt like their labbia.
Speaker 1: Couple of fish fingers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, looked like that. They were just kind of dangling
Speaker 3: in the wind because they were saying that collagen, our
Speaker 3: collagen and our ELASTI didn't whatever, all the things we're
Speaker 3: trying to do with our face to try and keep
Speaker 3: the collagen going, you also lose it from your little labia.
Speaker 3: And to be clear, labbia maturer, because that would be weird.
Speaker 3: We're outer lips.
Speaker 1: I was confused because I thought it was the inner bits. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know more about this than I probably did a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, because what land on my desk
Speaker 1: over the last few days is a coffee table book
Speaker 1: called Flip Through My Flaps.
Speaker 3: I love this book. A meeting that we go in
Speaker 3: we just look at it and go look.
Speaker 1: At out loud as Mama Maya is not a normal workplace.
Speaker 1: We do in meetings we flip through a coffee table
Speaker 1: book of close up photos of Volvers by Volver photographer
Speaker 1: Ellie Sedgwick, who intued on No Filter a little while ago.
Speaker 1: When she was growing up, she felt insecure about her
Speaker 1: labya because she was, as she says, an outi because
Speaker 1: there are outis and innies. And her doctor was like,
Speaker 1: let me see, and he's like, there's nothing wrong with you.
Speaker 1: And because she hadn't seen many others. Most straight women
Speaker 1: don't see many other badgeres, she was comparing herself to
Speaker 1: pawn and to the women perhaps that she'd seen in magazines.
Speaker 1: And we did a big story when I was in
Speaker 1: Cosmo about the fact that it was illegal for a
Speaker 1: magazine to publish photos where you could see a protruding
Speaker 1: labbia the inn lips, and so what they had to
Speaker 1: do it was literally called seal to a single crease.
Speaker 1: I had all these conversations with the male editors about
Speaker 1: it because they thought it was terrible that they had
Speaker 1: to do it. It was kind of the early days of retouching,
Speaker 1: you know, otherwise they couldn't be on sale.
Speaker 2: No wonder, we're all so weird. I want to shout
Speaker 2: out the fact that recently I've discovered on some dark
Speaker 2: corner of foxtail. Actually it's not that dark, it's quite bright.
Speaker 2: A show called Naked Attraction. Have you ever seen that?
Speaker 3: I have watched bits and pieces.
Speaker 2: It's a British dating show where you have three four
Speaker 2: naked people. They do all genders, naked people standing behind
Speaker 2: a screen that's get slowly lifted, so it's like, let's
Speaker 2: look at Betty's lower half and it lifts up to
Speaker 2: her waist and then it closes in really tight on
Speaker 2: Betty's vagina, and the person who's.
Speaker 3: Chosen vagina labya for all of.
Speaker 1: It, Yeah, closes up really tight.
Speaker 2: Not actually your correct because not inside her labia revolva.
Speaker 2: So far, they haven't gone with the internal camera that
Speaker 2: could be coming. And then they ask the person who's picking,
Speaker 2: the man or woman who's picking, like do you think
Speaker 2: that's a good looking to think?
Speaker 1: That's oh my god?
Speaker 2: And the person who's picking goes like, yeah, I like
Speaker 2: that one. They do the same with men, like they
Speaker 2: do the same with penises. And so I'm sitting there
Speaker 2: watching this show. I don't know why. When I was
Speaker 2: away with my friends and we found ourselves watching it
Speaker 2: and I started watching it and I was like, this
Speaker 2: is the worst thing I've ever seen on television. And
Speaker 2: then by the end of a couple of episodes, I
Speaker 2: was like, no, this is the best thing I've ever
Speaker 2: seen on television because the body shapes, the different diversity,
Speaker 2: the different boobs, the different labbia, the different penises, the innies,
Speaker 2: the audi's, the people who'd had surgery, the people who hadn't.
Speaker 2: I was like, I've never seen this much variety of
Speaker 2: naked bodies on television.
Speaker 3: And that's the reality, right, Like when you.
Speaker 2: All the labbya look different. Yeah, this puffy vagina business,
Speaker 2: this puffy labbier business, is trying to make us all conform,
Speaker 2: and my vagina will not come hob.
Speaker 3: It will aide.
Speaker 2: I don't think there's anything else to say anything today.
Speaker 2: That was a big show and a very big thank
Speaker 2: you to all of you for being here with us
Speaker 2: out louders and to our team who have to listen
Speaker 2: to us talking.
Speaker 3: Well, if out loud as one a little bit more
Speaker 3: from us. Yesterday, Holly and I went behind me as
Speaker 3: back and we had a private conversation.
Speaker 2: Last time you did that, I cried, Yes, I promise
Speaker 2: you won't cry well.
Speaker 3: One of the questions was whether we bitch about you
Speaker 3: behind your back, and we answered honestly.
Speaker 2: Answered honestly. There were other ones like if we did
Speaker 2: have all the money and resources in the world, would
Speaker 2: we have all the plastic surgery?
Speaker 1: We got off that.
Speaker 2: We got asked why there are some Internet stories that
Speaker 2: we choose not to weigh in on. We talked about that.
Speaker 3: One particular one, and we talked about our content decisions.
Speaker 3: There is a link in our show notes bye bye
Speaker 3: bye shout out to any Mum and me a subscribers listening.
Speaker 3: If you love the show and you want to support us,
Speaker 3: subscribing to MM and MIA is the very best way
Speaker 3: to do so. There's a link in the episode to
Speaker 3: say which
Speaker 5: Actor Baker bot