WEBVTT - Holding Space For My 'Wicked' Vulva 0:00:10.327 --> 0:00:13.047 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:13.727 --> 0:00:16.767 Mama Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.807 --> 0:00:19.087 that this podcast is recorded on out Louders. 0:00:19.087 --> 0:00:21.927 In case you missed it, we have some really exciting news. 0:00:21.967 --> 0:00:25.087 The Mamma Mia out loud Live twenty twenty five All 0:00:25.167 --> 0:00:29.247 or Nothing Tour, presented by Nivia Cellular, is coming funnily 0:00:29.327 --> 0:00:32.647 enough in twenty twenty five. For early access to tickets 0:00:32.647 --> 0:00:34.567 and information, make sure you sign up to the out 0:00:34.567 --> 0:00:40.967 Louders newsletter. There's a link in the show notes. Hello 0:00:41.167 --> 0:00:42.287 and welcome to. 0:00:42.327 --> 0:00:45.447 Mama Mia out loud. Well women are actually talking about 0:00:45.447 --> 0:00:49.527 On Wednesday, the twenty seventh of November. I'm Holly Waynwright. 0:00:49.127 --> 0:00:51.367 I'm Meya Friedman, and I'm holding space. To my co. 0:00:51.287 --> 0:00:54.407 Hosts, I'm Jesse Stevens, and I am sitting in my 0:00:54.567 --> 0:00:58.207 power of defying gravity. That makes sense later I can. 0:00:58.127 --> 0:01:02.327 Tell on the show Today, the world's in tears and 0:01:02.407 --> 0:01:06.367 holding both space and fingernails for one movie musical? So 0:01:06.407 --> 0:01:10.327 why all the big feelings about Wicked? So a woman 0:01:10.367 --> 0:01:12.607 has waited six years to be able to call one 0:01:12.607 --> 0:01:14.887 of the most famous men in the world her rapist, 0:01:15.247 --> 0:01:17.647 but he's not going to jail, the story of Connor 0:01:17.727 --> 0:01:21.087 McGregor and the Keita Hand and, in an abrupt change 0:01:21.087 --> 0:01:24.607 of direction, why puffy is the adjective women are taking 0:01:24.647 --> 0:01:30.247 to plastic surgeons about their labbya what the actual? But 0:01:30.607 --> 0:01:32.407 first mea Friedman? 0:01:32.727 --> 0:01:34.487 In case you missed it, Donald Trump has a new 0:01:34.527 --> 0:01:37.687 assistant who runs behind his golf card with a portable printer, 0:01:38.087 --> 0:01:40.887 shouting out positive things people have said about him on 0:01:40.927 --> 0:01:41.607 social media. 0:01:41.767 --> 0:01:43.007 Can I get one? 0:01:43.847 --> 0:01:47.327 I've told my assistant to lift her game, and she's 0:01:47.367 --> 0:01:48.927 actually quite fit, so I think she could do that. 0:01:49.007 --> 0:01:50.567 I need to get myself a golf card. I can't 0:01:50.607 --> 0:01:51.847 we find a portable printer. 0:01:52.007 --> 0:01:53.887 The people you have employed over the years, you've not 0:01:53.967 --> 0:01:56.487 found one person who will chase you with printed positive 0:01:56.687 --> 0:01:57.887 I think they can't find any. 0:01:58.327 --> 0:01:58.407 So. 0:01:58.767 --> 0:02:01.447 A New York Times story this week by the impeccably 0:02:01.527 --> 0:02:06.327 sourced Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swann has reported that thirty 0:02:06.367 --> 0:02:09.967 three year old Natalie Harp used to be on a 0:02:10.007 --> 0:02:14.967 far right cable channel as a kind of personality. She's 0:02:14.967 --> 0:02:18.887 been by his side for a while now, probably a 0:02:18.927 --> 0:02:22.247 good five or six years, even when he was a 0:02:22.287 --> 0:02:25.247 bit out in the wilderness before he ran for reelection 0:02:25.367 --> 0:02:28.887 and won back the presidency. She has a unique role. 0:02:28.967 --> 0:02:32.687 She acts as an informal information conduit to Trump. She 0:02:32.727 --> 0:02:36.727 has no official title, but significant influence. This report says 0:02:37.087 --> 0:02:41.087 part of her duties involved being his social media handler. 0:02:41.287 --> 0:02:44.087 He's not very good with the technology, so he likes 0:02:44.167 --> 0:02:47.407 everything in hard copy, which has earned her the nickname 0:02:47.447 --> 0:02:52.647 among his circle of the human printer, because during the campaign, 0:02:52.927 --> 0:02:56.487 colleagues literally called her this because she'd trail Trump with 0:02:56.487 --> 0:02:59.647 a portable printer and a battery pack, ready to hand 0:02:59.727 --> 0:03:01.207 him hard copies of information. 0:03:01.567 --> 0:03:03.687 You know what she is. She's a hype girl. We 0:03:03.727 --> 0:03:05.727 all have one in our hype girl in our lives. 0:03:06.007 --> 0:03:09.047 You're doing great, great, Look at all the great Sweden. 0:03:09.447 --> 0:03:11.247 Don't listen to those nasty people. 0:03:11.367 --> 0:03:12.047 I just hate this. 0:03:12.287 --> 0:03:14.087 It's a little strange, though, because there are a whole 0:03:14.087 --> 0:03:17.527 lot of letters, devotional letters that she wrote him that 0:03:17.687 --> 0:03:20.247 had been seen by his aides and by the New 0:03:20.327 --> 0:03:23.207 York Times. That raised a few eyebrows because there were 0:03:23.207 --> 0:03:25.287 lines in there like you are all that matters to me, 0:03:25.527 --> 0:03:28.647 and I just want to bring you joy. So a 0:03:28.687 --> 0:03:30.887 few people have been a little bit unnerved about that. 0:03:31.207 --> 0:03:34.767 And she also is a bit of a social media 0:03:34.887 --> 0:03:39.167 chaos agent because she helps Trump post his most impulsive thoughts. 0:03:39.167 --> 0:03:41.327 So she'll be the one he'll go blah blah blah 0:03:41.327 --> 0:03:42.967 blah blah, and she'll be the one that posts it 0:03:43.007 --> 0:03:46.327 to true social or Twitter or wherever it goes. She 0:03:46.407 --> 0:03:51.007 credited Trump with saving her life through a law called 0:03:51.007 --> 0:03:53.367 the right to Try law that he enacted when he 0:03:53.407 --> 0:03:56.367 was president. Last time that was about experimental drugs. She 0:03:56.447 --> 0:03:58.607 said she had bone cancer, and she went on TV 0:03:58.727 --> 0:04:01.367 to say Donald Trump saved my life, which is how 0:04:01.367 --> 0:04:04.887 he heard about her and met her and then employed her. 0:04:05.167 --> 0:04:08.967 But no one can find any details about this cancer 0:04:08.967 --> 0:04:11.447 that she had or any treatment that she actually had. 0:04:11.527 --> 0:04:17.567 She sounds like she's in the right job. Friends. Have 0:04:17.647 --> 0:04:20.887 you been holding space for defying gravity this week? 0:04:21.167 --> 0:04:22.807 It's a lot of words I don't understand. 0:04:22.807 --> 0:04:27.367 Are you feeling power in that? Well? Someone who has 0:04:27.447 --> 0:04:30.927 been holding space as a journalist named Tracy E. Gilchrist, 0:04:30.967 --> 0:04:35.407 who recently interviewed Cynthia Arrivo and Ariana Grande, the stars 0:04:35.487 --> 0:04:39.007 of the new film Wicked. This is definitely one of 0:04:39.047 --> 0:04:42.527 those all or nothing stories. You either know everything about Wicked, 0:04:42.807 --> 0:04:44.847 you've read the nineteen ninety five book it's based on, 0:04:44.887 --> 0:04:47.047 which is a reimagining of the nineteen hundred book The 0:04:47.087 --> 0:04:48.967 Wizard of Oz, which was made into a nineteen thirty 0:04:49.047 --> 0:04:52.007 nine film with Judy Garland, and then Wicked became a 0:04:52.007 --> 0:04:54.047 Broadway musical and now it's a number one movie in 0:04:54.087 --> 0:04:55.767 the world. A bunch of you will know that. 0:04:55.927 --> 0:04:56.967 I didn't know any of that. 0:04:57.167 --> 0:04:58.527 Yeah, a lot of people are talking about it. 0:04:58.527 --> 0:05:00.207 How all is Wicked the musical? 0:05:00.607 --> 0:05:02.527 The musical twenty years? 0:05:02.727 --> 0:05:04.487 Yeah, about twenty of those. So it's been around a 0:05:04.487 --> 0:05:07.087 long time, playing on Broadway, playing in the West End, playing. 0:05:07.207 --> 0:05:08.967 Yeah, and it's been to Australia. I think I've seen 0:05:08.967 --> 0:05:10.407 it once in Australia, but I think it's been here 0:05:10.447 --> 0:05:13.847 all the months. Or you are someone who's been biting 0:05:13.927 --> 0:05:16.447 your tongue for the last few weeks because you don't 0:05:16.527 --> 0:05:20.127 know what an alphaba is. You don't know why everyone 0:05:20.207 --> 0:05:22.687 is crying. You'd love to hold space. We all love 0:05:22.727 --> 0:05:25.447 holding space, for defying gravity, but you don't know how 0:05:25.527 --> 0:05:26.207 that is done. 0:05:26.247 --> 0:05:27.327 What space should I hold? 0:05:27.367 --> 0:05:30.887 Exactly? The space? And what is defining gravity? The press 0:05:30.887 --> 0:05:33.767 tour for Wicked has captured worldwide attention, and I've been 0:05:33.847 --> 0:05:37.607 theorizing that this signals the end of cynicism and a 0:05:37.647 --> 0:05:41.767 new dawn of total earnestness. But the press tour reached 0:05:42.207 --> 0:05:45.607 peak press tour with this exchange, and I'd like you 0:05:45.647 --> 0:05:47.807 to both help me decode it. Here's what happened. 0:05:47.967 --> 0:05:52.087 I've seen this week people are taking the lyrics of 0:05:52.167 --> 0:05:55.727 defying gravity and really holding space with that and feeling 0:05:55.847 --> 0:05:56.607 power in that. 0:05:57.487 --> 0:05:59.967 I didn't know that that was happening. I've seen that. 0:06:00.167 --> 0:06:03.127 Yeah, that's really powerful. 0:06:04.967 --> 0:06:08.487 That's why I wanted I don't know that was happening. 0:06:08.847 --> 0:06:10.927 Is that the one where I've seen the meme where 0:06:11.007 --> 0:06:14.887 Ariana Grande is holding Cynthia Arrivo's long fake fingernail while 0:06:14.887 --> 0:06:15.407 they're talking. 0:06:15.487 --> 0:06:18.167 He's just grabbing it. She's just holding clutching out for 0:06:18.287 --> 0:06:21.807 safe Holly, you haven't seen the movie. What do you 0:06:21.847 --> 0:06:23.727 think it means to hold space for define gravity? 0:06:23.807 --> 0:06:27.207 I don't understand it, any of it. Okay, nothing, No, 0:06:27.327 --> 0:06:29.767 I do. I'm being facetious because I did want to 0:06:29.847 --> 0:06:33.527 understand because I've seen it everywhere, and everybody's been crying 0:06:33.567 --> 0:06:35.487 a lot, including people in the Mama Mer office have 0:06:35.567 --> 0:06:38.007 been crying a lot. And I don't have a connection 0:06:38.087 --> 0:06:40.127 to Wicked This is the thing about musicals is you're 0:06:40.167 --> 0:06:42.527 either really connected to a musical or you're not. And 0:06:42.567 --> 0:06:46.007 I understand the emotional connection because I love a musical 0:06:46.287 --> 0:06:49.607 and they are sentimental by nature, and they are earnest 0:06:49.687 --> 0:06:52.887 by nature, because we don't really go around singing our feelings, 0:06:52.887 --> 0:06:55.647 but in a musical you do, right, So I understand 0:06:55.687 --> 0:06:58.407 all that, but I personally don't have a connection. But 0:06:58.567 --> 0:07:02.607 when I read an interview with the journalist Tracy Ilgilchrist, 0:07:02.607 --> 0:07:04.847 because my god, we've got very sort of story within 0:07:04.887 --> 0:07:07.687 a story within a story. Now. She was interviewed by 0:07:07.687 --> 0:07:11.927 a variety about that viral interview, and she explained that 0:07:12.007 --> 0:07:14.727 it was also about the time because Trump had just won, 0:07:15.447 --> 0:07:19.727 Queer people feeling very frightened of what's the head. Musical 0:07:19.767 --> 0:07:23.127 theater very important in queer community, and so she wrote, 0:07:23.487 --> 0:07:27.127 when Cynthia sings I'm through accepting limits, there's power in that. 0:07:27.247 --> 0:07:29.807 And she's playing a character who's othered and one who 0:07:29.847 --> 0:07:32.247 comes into a power when she's exiled by a charlatan 0:07:32.247 --> 0:07:33.087 and a cruel leader. 0:07:33.167 --> 0:07:34.407 So it's all like. 0:07:35.047 --> 0:07:38.527 Being imposed on our on what's going on in the world. 0:07:38.567 --> 0:07:40.767 And that made more sense to me. Is that way 0:07:40.767 --> 0:07:41.527 everyone's crying. 0:07:41.647 --> 0:07:44.327 Yes, But the other element is that what's so funny 0:07:44.367 --> 0:07:48.367 about that interview is that she basically admitted that she 0:07:48.367 --> 0:07:51.647 she'dn't bungle it. But has anyone ever got halfway through 0:07:51.647 --> 0:07:54.167 an interview question realize you don't know where you're going 0:07:54.327 --> 0:07:56.647 and just said something that's weird and then just hoped 0:07:56.727 --> 0:08:00.207 that they pick up. Yeah, that's what happened, because then Cynthia, 0:08:00.447 --> 0:08:03.607 she had this amazing reaction. Gil Christ has said, I 0:08:03.607 --> 0:08:06.247 didn't expect that reaction, and then she said, I've been 0:08:06.247 --> 0:08:08.247 seeing a few things on social she actually did, and 0:08:08.327 --> 0:08:09.247 it was just a friend of. 0:08:09.607 --> 0:08:12.087 What's confusing is what she's reacting to. So let's just 0:08:12.087 --> 0:08:13.887 go back a few steps for people who were like, 0:08:14.047 --> 0:08:16.247 what is going on? Yeah, and why do I need 0:08:16.287 --> 0:08:20.367 to care? The movie is like a prequel to the 0:08:20.407 --> 0:08:24.687 Wizard of Oz, and it's about Glinda the Goodwitch and 0:08:25.087 --> 0:08:27.967 Alpha bar the Wicked Witch who is green in the 0:08:27.967 --> 0:08:30.287 Wizard of Oz movie, and it's their origin story. 0:08:30.767 --> 0:08:32.567 And so the Wicked Witch in the Wizard of Oz, 0:08:32.607 --> 0:08:34.047 the one that I was really scared of as a kid, 0:08:34.247 --> 0:08:35.447 is Alpha Bay. 0:08:35.367 --> 0:08:37.367 And so what the person did this is a fun fact. 0:08:37.567 --> 0:08:38.367 It's like Darth Vader. 0:08:38.407 --> 0:08:40.127 It's like how Alphaba went evil? 0:08:40.207 --> 0:08:42.447 Yes, yes, So the person who wrote the book in 0:08:42.487 --> 0:08:45.847 nineteen ninety five, he was very influenced by the James 0:08:45.847 --> 0:08:48.687 Bolger case in the UK, which was this horrific case 0:08:49.247 --> 0:08:52.127 where two boys took a little boy and killed him, 0:08:52.407 --> 0:08:56.287 and that made him question nature versus nurture and the 0:08:56.287 --> 0:08:58.927 origins of evil. And so he took Alphaba, who was 0:08:58.927 --> 0:09:01.407 seen as this wicked witch, and went, what would happen 0:09:01.407 --> 0:09:03.807 if we reappraise this character? We made her the central 0:09:03.847 --> 0:09:06.527 character and looked at was it a self fulfilling prophecy? 0:09:06.567 --> 0:09:08.527 Calling her evil from the beginning? And that's what Wicked 0:09:08.567 --> 0:09:09.007 is all about. 0:09:09.327 --> 0:09:12.327 So Ariana Grande, of course, is the world famous pop star. 0:09:12.687 --> 0:09:17.047 Cynthia Arrivo is a Tony Award winning, Grammy Award winning 0:09:17.567 --> 0:09:24.007 Musical theater recording artist, actor, but less known. And this 0:09:24.127 --> 0:09:26.487 movie has been in development for a really long time. 0:09:27.127 --> 0:09:30.127 Took them two years to film because they filmed part 0:09:30.127 --> 0:09:31.887 one and part two. So the movie that's out now 0:09:31.927 --> 0:09:32.687 is just part one. 0:09:32.607 --> 0:09:33.767 And it's three hours long. 0:09:33.847 --> 0:09:37.127 Yeah, and part two comes out next November. An we'll 0:09:37.167 --> 0:09:39.607 have another tool now. Jesse and I went to see 0:09:39.647 --> 0:09:42.087 it I knew nothing about Wicked, like really nothing, but 0:09:42.247 --> 0:09:45.287 I'm always interested in hype, and I wanted to understand hype. 0:09:45.807 --> 0:09:49.247 So Jesse and Claire took their cousin Simon to see it. 0:09:49.327 --> 0:09:51.847 I went with Coco, my daughter, who was seeing it 0:09:51.847 --> 0:09:55.167 for the second time. She's a massive Wicked fan, so 0:09:55.207 --> 0:09:57.807 she was one of those people who had felt very emotional. 0:09:58.447 --> 0:10:00.207 I wanted to look at my phone a little bit 0:10:00.287 --> 0:10:02.807 and go outside and maybe get some snacks. She kept 0:10:02.807 --> 0:10:04.367 getting cross with me when I would do. 0:10:04.487 --> 0:10:07.047 Two hours in, we had to leave and get a. 0:10:06.967 --> 0:10:10.727 Snatch a memory of text Holly saying we're still here. 0:10:10.847 --> 0:10:12.607 I went to bed and he was still there. 0:10:12.887 --> 0:10:16.167 Was long and what's happened is the sort of there's 0:10:16.167 --> 0:10:18.047 a whole lot of gossip around the making of the 0:10:18.087 --> 0:10:20.367 movie because that was when Ariana Grandez. It took them 0:10:20.407 --> 0:10:23.207 two years, but arian and Grande's marriage broke down. She 0:10:23.327 --> 0:10:26.247 then started a relationship with one of her co stars 0:10:26.247 --> 0:10:30.807 in the film, Ethan Slater, who plays back from munchkin Land, 0:10:31.687 --> 0:10:35.567 And that wasn't expected. And he was married at the 0:10:35.567 --> 0:10:37.927 time and he had a child, or he'd previously separated 0:10:37.967 --> 0:10:39.127 from his wife and he had a child, so that 0:10:39.247 --> 0:10:42.087 was kind of a whole drama. But the press, too, interestingly, 0:10:42.167 --> 0:10:45.087 hasn't been about any of that. It's been very much 0:10:45.127 --> 0:10:49.847 about the friendship between Ariana and Cynthia. And as you say, Jesse, 0:10:49.927 --> 0:10:53.247 what struck me is the earnestness, the earnestness of the fans, 0:10:53.287 --> 0:10:57.767 the earnestness of the actors, the earnestness of this journalists 0:10:57.807 --> 0:11:02.087 who were usually cynical, and everybody crying and it's easy 0:11:02.127 --> 0:11:04.967 to kind of mock that, but one of the people 0:11:05.047 --> 0:11:08.167 who was crying was our head of entertainment here at 0:11:08.167 --> 0:11:11.527 Mamma Mia, Laura Nick, who hosts our podcast, The Spill, 0:11:12.127 --> 0:11:16.327 and I actually wanted her to explain why she was crying. 0:11:16.447 --> 0:11:19.367 I needed that, like the tears explained, because everyone said 0:11:19.407 --> 0:11:21.727 there was a scene that was making them cry, and yeah, 0:11:21.887 --> 0:11:24.047 I don't have a heart. So I walked out, going 0:11:24.047 --> 0:11:24.567 what scene now? 0:11:24.607 --> 0:11:26.487 And I don't want to make fun of people exactly 0:11:26.647 --> 0:11:29.127 loved it. I just want to understand it. So dragged 0:11:29.127 --> 0:11:31.847 her into the studio after she dried her eyes and 0:11:32.167 --> 0:11:34.007 we just had a little chat about it so she 0:11:34.007 --> 0:11:36.767 could explain. And here's a bit of our conversation. 0:11:36.647 --> 0:11:39.327 As the Wizard and I which is so early in 0:11:39.367 --> 0:11:43.527 the musical came on. I just felt uncontrollable. Sobs start 0:11:43.567 --> 0:11:45.567 in my body, like not a pretty cry, like a 0:11:45.607 --> 0:11:48.287 one tier, but like your whole net goes round, your 0:11:48.327 --> 0:11:50.567 face goes red. And I continued for the two hour 0:11:50.607 --> 0:11:52.207 and forty minutes of the rest of the movie. 0:11:52.487 --> 0:11:54.527 And what were you crying about? 0:11:55.087 --> 0:11:57.647 This is the thing. It's not the movie itself, although 0:11:57.687 --> 0:12:00.407 that's really beautiful, but it's the history of it, I think, 0:12:00.527 --> 0:12:01.927 is why people are getting so emotional. 0:12:02.127 --> 0:12:04.647 History isn't that long. It's not like it's from. 0:12:04.727 --> 0:12:07.247 Twenty years that's more than half my life. 0:12:07.287 --> 0:12:09.447 I guess it is a long time for you. What 0:12:09.567 --> 0:12:12.087 is it about the history that feels like it's some 0:12:12.247 --> 0:12:15.487 triumph over adversity. Isn't it just a movie that's been 0:12:15.527 --> 0:12:17.567 in development for a really long time. And no, it's 0:12:17.607 --> 0:12:17.927 not the. 0:12:17.927 --> 0:12:20.287 Movie that people are crying over. I'm sure some people are. 0:12:20.367 --> 0:12:21.887 I'm not the kind of person who cries in a 0:12:21.887 --> 0:12:24.527 movie because you've only spent a few hours with the characters, 0:12:24.567 --> 0:12:26.167 and while it can be a bit emotional, you get 0:12:26.207 --> 0:12:27.687 like a bit of a tear in the eye. I 0:12:27.687 --> 0:12:30.167 think that sobbing has to come from years of build up, 0:12:30.287 --> 0:12:32.207 and so it's actually from the stage show and people 0:12:32.287 --> 0:12:34.767 remembering the first time they saw it, or the first 0:12:34.767 --> 0:12:36.607 time they travel to see it with family, or playing 0:12:36.647 --> 0:12:38.687 the soundtrack three moments of their life. Like, that's what 0:12:38.727 --> 0:12:40.727 it is for me. When I had my first job 0:12:40.767 --> 0:12:43.167 and I was earning no money, I use pretty much 0:12:43.167 --> 0:12:45.847 my entire paycheck to fly to Melbourne to see Wicked 0:12:46.327 --> 0:12:48.487 on stage for the first time, and I had no 0:12:48.567 --> 0:12:49.967 money for the rest of the month, and I had 0:12:49.967 --> 0:12:51.847 to steal a piece of bread from the newspaper I 0:12:51.887 --> 0:12:53.887 was working at every day to toast on the way home. 0:12:54.207 --> 0:12:56.887 But like, no regrets because that was such an incredible experience. 0:12:57.007 --> 0:13:00.007 There are lots of musicals around though I saw La 0:13:00.167 --> 0:13:03.327 Mis when I was young. I saw Rent. I love 0:13:03.367 --> 0:13:06.527 a musical, But like when I saw the movie of Lems, 0:13:06.607 --> 0:13:09.487 I didn't sam uncontrollably well. 0:13:09.527 --> 0:13:11.207 I mean, I think that's between you and your musical. 0:13:11.207 --> 0:13:11.407 God. 0:13:11.407 --> 0:13:13.487 Everyone has a different emotional reaction to something, but I 0:13:13.487 --> 0:13:15.527 think with Wicked there's a few different layers there. One 0:13:15.567 --> 0:13:17.927 is that the story is so good, and I think 0:13:18.007 --> 0:13:21.167 people really relate to that. It is mea don't pull 0:13:21.167 --> 0:13:21.447 that through. 0:13:21.647 --> 0:13:23.287 What's so good about it? Though? 0:13:23.527 --> 0:13:25.967 It's a story I think that centers a really complex 0:13:26.047 --> 0:13:28.407 female friendship in a way that we really don't see, 0:13:28.527 --> 0:13:31.567 not in theater, but also rarely in movies and TV shows. 0:13:31.927 --> 0:13:35.287 Also the love story that kind of unexpected enemies to lovers. 0:13:35.327 --> 0:13:37.807 And also Alphabet is just a character that I think 0:13:37.847 --> 0:13:40.807 so many people relate to because she is such an outsider. 0:13:41.127 --> 0:13:43.447 She is green, but more so than that, she is 0:13:43.487 --> 0:13:46.327 an outsider, she's an underdog. And she doesn't have a 0:13:46.367 --> 0:13:49.127 makeover and become a different person. She just becomes a 0:13:49.167 --> 0:13:51.287 hero from a different way. I understand how it becomes 0:13:51.487 --> 0:13:54.727 more witchy. Yes, well, she becomes a like a champion 0:13:54.767 --> 0:13:57.807 for the people. But all that's making it sound so worthy, 0:13:57.887 --> 0:13:59.647 I think like in a way that you feel writing 0:13:59.647 --> 0:14:01.407 an essay about why you would like Wicked. But I 0:14:01.407 --> 0:14:03.447 think most people who love it don't love it because 0:14:03.447 --> 0:14:05.167 of that. They love it because of the story and 0:14:05.167 --> 0:14:08.407 the characters. And it's one of the rare musicals where 0:14:08.407 --> 0:14:10.967 you could take the song which I wouldn't recommend because 0:14:11.007 --> 0:14:13.687 the songs are amazing, but it stands alone without the songs. 0:14:13.767 --> 0:14:14.847 It's about the characters. 0:14:15.247 --> 0:14:18.247 I totally get all that right. I do cry when 0:14:18.287 --> 0:14:21.447 I watch le Mith. Oh, I cry when I watch Hamilton. 0:14:22.007 --> 0:14:23.887 Think about all the people you know who have like 0:14:24.007 --> 0:14:27.247 outsize connections to kind of Disney musical songs and stuff. 0:14:27.607 --> 0:14:32.247 It's a marriage of nostalgia and the sort of bold 0:14:32.287 --> 0:14:35.407 strokes storytelling that you get in musicals, like very simplistic 0:14:35.487 --> 0:14:38.927 good bad. How to push emotional buttons with sounds and 0:14:38.967 --> 0:14:41.727 songs and lyrics totally makes sense. And you know, I 0:14:41.767 --> 0:14:44.567 was thinking about because, as I said before, I don't 0:14:44.567 --> 0:14:46.847 have an emotional connection to Wicked, because I just don't 0:14:46.847 --> 0:14:50.167 have one. But if they made a live action version 0:14:50.167 --> 0:14:53.127 of Hamilton, which I've seen a million times. You know, 0:14:53.167 --> 0:14:55.847 I've listened to Hamilton in the Car a million times. 0:14:55.887 --> 0:14:58.167 I've watched the live show a million times. If they 0:14:58.447 --> 0:15:02.247 dramatized it into a seven hour movie experience, I would 0:15:02.287 --> 0:15:05.567 be deeply invested. Who's going to play Angelica, Who's going 0:15:05.647 --> 0:15:07.887 to play Lafayette? I would be deeply into it, And 0:15:07.927 --> 0:15:10.487 I'd cry when they sang burn and I would be 0:15:11.047 --> 0:15:12.127 a million times you've. 0:15:12.007 --> 0:15:14.127 Been looking for the Easter eggs, which is the other 0:15:14.207 --> 0:15:16.407 element of this is the way you can watch it. 0:15:16.447 --> 0:15:21.607 Depending on your level of investment in Wicked. Law is variable. 0:15:21.847 --> 0:15:23.887 But the other reason I think this is different is 0:15:23.927 --> 0:15:27.607 because of what it says about bullying, an ostracization, like 0:15:27.647 --> 0:15:30.327 good story, if you've ever felt ostracized, if you've ever 0:15:30.367 --> 0:15:35.927 felt like you look different or you're marginalized, like an outsider. 0:15:35.527 --> 0:15:38.047 Which is what that journalist was saying about. Yeah, everybody's 0:15:38.087 --> 0:15:40.727 laughing about holding space for defying gravity, but in a 0:15:40.767 --> 0:15:43.887 moment where you feel like being an outsider is very 0:15:43.967 --> 0:15:47.607 much a dangerous place to be, this feels validating. 0:15:47.127 --> 0:15:51.647 Exactly, And to have someone extend their hand to you 0:15:51.887 --> 0:15:54.487 who does have some sort of social currency can feel 0:15:54.687 --> 0:15:57.167 life changing, like it made me feel like a girl. 0:15:57.407 --> 0:16:00.247 The cynic in me, though, does want to know how 0:16:00.287 --> 0:16:03.487 you take a two hour stage musical and turn it 0:16:03.607 --> 0:16:07.167 into a two part three hour even a time that 0:16:07.207 --> 0:16:09.167 goes on over two years, because the cynic in me says, 0:16:09.567 --> 0:16:12.607 for one very simple reason, yes, to make lots and 0:16:12.607 --> 0:16:13.967 lots and lots and lots of money. 0:16:14.007 --> 0:16:16.127 So the thing that I compared this to when Claara 0:16:16.167 --> 0:16:18.607 and I walked out was Harry Potter. So Harry Potter, 0:16:18.607 --> 0:16:21.807 remember the last movie they split it into two Harry 0:16:21.807 --> 0:16:23.967 Potter fans were satisfied by that and wicked fans will 0:16:24.007 --> 0:16:26.687 be satisfied by this. It felt very Harry Potter in 0:16:26.727 --> 0:16:29.967 the development of the world. This adds more than what 0:16:30.007 --> 0:16:33.967 the stage production does because the book is long, there 0:16:33.967 --> 0:16:36.887 are so many threads, and it goes into the background 0:16:36.887 --> 0:16:40.087 of Alpheber's life and pads it out more so imagine 0:16:40.087 --> 0:16:43.207 watching a Hamilton musical, but it gives you more like 0:16:43.287 --> 0:16:46.367 it's something that you know, adds extra. 0:16:46.167 --> 0:16:49.567 Scenes, and it's got more backstory for certain characters. But 0:16:49.887 --> 0:16:52.727 I really admired the commitment of the press tour. I 0:16:52.807 --> 0:16:55.967 admired the fact that they were always apparently addressed in character. Yep, 0:16:56.047 --> 0:16:58.887 they pretty much stayed in character it appeared, and they 0:16:58.927 --> 0:17:01.847 were deeply invested in the experience in a way that 0:17:01.927 --> 0:17:04.367 I understand if you spent like five years of your 0:17:04.407 --> 0:17:08.447 life rehearsing, filming making the thing, you'd want to hope 0:17:08.487 --> 0:17:09.167 that shit. 0:17:09.407 --> 0:17:12.487 I'm in awe of how it's worked because this might 0:17:12.567 --> 0:17:15.007 look on paper like a sure thing, but the success 0:17:15.047 --> 0:17:17.567 of Wicked was not a sure thing. Remember Cats. It 0:17:17.607 --> 0:17:21.447 was also by Universe Musicals, a cotal flop. I think 0:17:21.487 --> 0:17:23.687 West Side Story didn't do what they wanted it to do. 0:17:24.247 --> 0:17:27.167 This had an enormous budget, it needed to work, and 0:17:27.247 --> 0:17:29.767 I reckon, you know, they've sat in a room and gone, 0:17:30.127 --> 0:17:33.367 how can we make this go viral? And the press tour, 0:17:33.647 --> 0:17:36.967 I think that that's contributed enormously to the success. 0:17:37.087 --> 0:17:39.407 They've been working hard for their money, because my god, 0:17:39.407 --> 0:17:41.527 that tour feels like it's been going on for six months. 0:17:41.607 --> 0:17:43.287 There are two things that I took away from it. 0:17:43.287 --> 0:17:45.887 The first is that we always laugh at things that 0:17:45.927 --> 0:17:49.447 women and girls enjoy. We always mock them, we always 0:17:49.447 --> 0:17:53.727 deride them, whether it's you know, fandom and people who 0:17:53.767 --> 0:17:56.127 go to concerts, whether they were screaming for the Beatles 0:17:56.207 --> 0:18:00.447 or crying about Taylor Swift or one direction. And the 0:18:00.527 --> 0:18:05.927 other thing is it's made me see how the downside 0:18:05.967 --> 0:18:09.127 of it is calling it earnestness, but you could also 0:18:09.327 --> 0:18:12.727 say it's genuine. It's not cynical. It's like people are 0:18:12.767 --> 0:18:15.767 just not going and trying to be clever and they're 0:18:15.767 --> 0:18:17.447 not trying to be Oh yeah, it was a movie 0:18:17.447 --> 0:18:19.527 and it was this and blah blah. It was like 0:18:19.607 --> 0:18:23.327 everyone's like, no, I loved this, I loved making this, 0:18:23.567 --> 0:18:26.207 and people are like I loved watching this. I love this, 0:18:26.567 --> 0:18:31.647 And there's no satire or wink or wanting to be cool, 0:18:32.087 --> 0:18:33.967 like there's no cool girl about it at all. 0:18:34.127 --> 0:18:36.847 I like that, Yeah, yeah, very you know what it is. 0:18:36.887 --> 0:18:39.807 It's also the full embrace of the theater kid. It's 0:18:39.847 --> 0:18:42.767 like the theater kid has felt marginalized and ostracized. And 0:18:42.807 --> 0:18:44.247 I think this is why it struck such a chord 0:18:44.247 --> 0:18:46.407 with the queer community as well, because it's not cool 0:18:46.447 --> 0:18:47.927 to try it, because it's not cool to try And 0:18:47.927 --> 0:18:50.687 when you look at Cynthia and Ariana and the way 0:18:50.687 --> 0:18:53.367 that they speak to people, it is so theater kid. 0:18:53.487 --> 0:18:55.527 Like some of us who are not theater kids, because 0:18:55.567 --> 0:18:57.407 we can't sing to save our lives. 0:18:57.087 --> 0:18:57.767