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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mama Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on out Louders.

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Speaker 1: In case you missed it, we have some really exciting news.

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Speaker 1: The Mamma Mia out loud Live twenty twenty five All

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Speaker 1: or Nothing Tour, presented by Nivia Cellular, is coming funnily

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Speaker 1: enough in twenty twenty five. For early access to tickets

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Speaker 1: and information, make sure you sign up to the out

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Speaker 1: Louders newsletter. There's a link in the show notes. Hello

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Speaker 1: and welcome to.

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Speaker 2: Mama Mia out loud. Well women are actually talking about

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Speaker 2: On Wednesday, the twenty seventh of November. I'm Holly Waynwright.

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Speaker 1: I'm Meya Friedman, and I'm holding space. To my co.

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Speaker 3: Hosts, I'm Jesse Stevens, and I am sitting in my

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Speaker 3: power of defying gravity. That makes sense later I can.

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Speaker 2: Tell on the show Today, the world's in tears and

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Speaker 2: holding both space and fingernails for one movie musical? So

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Speaker 2: why all the big feelings about Wicked? So a woman

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Speaker 2: has waited six years to be able to call one

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Speaker 2: of the most famous men in the world her rapist,

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Speaker 2: but he's not going to jail, the story of Connor

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Speaker 2: McGregor and the Keita Hand and, in an abrupt change

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Speaker 2: of direction, why puffy is the adjective women are taking

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Speaker 2: to plastic surgeons about their labbya what the actual? But

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Speaker 2: first mea Friedman?

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Speaker 1: In case you missed it, Donald Trump has a new

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Speaker 1: assistant who runs behind his golf card with a portable printer,

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Speaker 1: shouting out positive things people have said about him on

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Speaker 1: social media.

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Speaker 2: Can I get one?

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Speaker 1: I've told my assistant to lift her game, and she's

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Speaker 1: actually quite fit, so I think she could do that.

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Speaker 1: I need to get myself a golf card. I can't

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Speaker 1: we find a portable printer.

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Speaker 3: The people you have employed over the years, you've not

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Speaker 3: found one person who will chase you with printed positive

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Speaker 3: I think they can't find any.

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Speaker 4: So.

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Speaker 1: A New York Times story this week by the impeccably

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Speaker 1: sourced Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swann has reported that thirty

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Speaker 1: three year old Natalie Harp used to be on a

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Speaker 1: far right cable channel as a kind of personality. She's

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Speaker 1: been by his side for a while now, probably a

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Speaker 1: good five or six years, even when he was a

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Speaker 1: bit out in the wilderness before he ran for reelection

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Speaker 1: and won back the presidency. She has a unique role.

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Speaker 1: She acts as an informal information conduit to Trump. She

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Speaker 1: has no official title, but significant influence. This report says

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Speaker 1: part of her duties involved being his social media handler.

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Speaker 1: He's not very good with the technology, so he likes

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Speaker 1: everything in hard copy, which has earned her the nickname

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Speaker 1: among his circle of the human printer, because during the campaign,

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Speaker 1: colleagues literally called her this because she'd trail Trump with

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Speaker 1: a portable printer and a battery pack, ready to hand

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Speaker 1: him hard copies of information.

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Speaker 3: You know what she is. She's a hype girl. We

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Speaker 3: all have one in our hype girl in our lives.

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Speaker 3: You're doing great, great, Look at all the great Sweden.

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Speaker 3: Don't listen to those nasty people.

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Speaker 2: I just hate this.

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Speaker 1: It's a little strange, though, because there are a whole

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Speaker 1: lot of letters, devotional letters that she wrote him that

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Speaker 1: had been seen by his aides and by the New

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Speaker 1: York Times. That raised a few eyebrows because there were

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Speaker 1: lines in there like you are all that matters to me,

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Speaker 1: and I just want to bring you joy. So a

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Speaker 1: few people have been a little bit unnerved about that.

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Speaker 1: And she also is a bit of a social media

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Speaker 1: chaos agent because she helps Trump post his most impulsive thoughts.

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Speaker 1: So she'll be the one he'll go blah blah blah

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Speaker 1: blah blah, and she'll be the one that posts it

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Speaker 1: to true social or Twitter or wherever it goes. She

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Speaker 1: credited Trump with saving her life through a law called

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Speaker 1: the right to Try law that he enacted when he

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Speaker 1: was president. Last time that was about experimental drugs. She

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Speaker 1: said she had bone cancer, and she went on TV

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Speaker 1: to say Donald Trump saved my life, which is how

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Speaker 1: he heard about her and met her and then employed her.

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Speaker 1: But no one can find any details about this cancer

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Speaker 1: that she had or any treatment that she actually had.

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Speaker 3: She sounds like she's in the right job. Friends. Have

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Speaker 3: you been holding space for defying gravity this week?

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Speaker 2: It's a lot of words I don't understand.

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Speaker 3: Are you feeling power in that? Well? Someone who has

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Speaker 3: been holding space as a journalist named Tracy E. Gilchrist,

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Speaker 3: who recently interviewed Cynthia Arrivo and Ariana Grande, the stars

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Speaker 3: of the new film Wicked. This is definitely one of

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Speaker 3: those all or nothing stories. You either know everything about Wicked,

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Speaker 3: you've read the nineteen ninety five book it's based on,

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Speaker 3: which is a reimagining of the nineteen hundred book The

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Speaker 3: Wizard of Oz, which was made into a nineteen thirty

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Speaker 3: nine film with Judy Garland, and then Wicked became a

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Speaker 3: Broadway musical and now it's a number one movie in

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Speaker 3: the world. A bunch of you will know that.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know any of that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of people are talking about it.

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Speaker 2: How all is Wicked the musical?

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Speaker 1: The musical twenty years?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, about twenty of those. So it's been around a

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Speaker 2: long time, playing on Broadway, playing in the West End, playing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's been to Australia. I think I've seen

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Speaker 3: it once in Australia, but I think it's been here

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Speaker 3: all the months. Or you are someone who's been biting

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Speaker 3: your tongue for the last few weeks because you don't

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Speaker 3: know what an alphaba is. You don't know why everyone

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Speaker 3: is crying. You'd love to hold space. We all love

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Speaker 3: holding space, for defying gravity, but you don't know how

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Speaker 3: that is done.

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Speaker 1: What space should I hold?

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Speaker 3: Exactly? The space? And what is defining gravity? The press

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Speaker 3: tour for Wicked has captured worldwide attention, and I've been

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Speaker 3: theorizing that this signals the end of cynicism and a

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Speaker 3: new dawn of total earnestness. But the press tour reached

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Speaker 3: peak press tour with this exchange, and I'd like you

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Speaker 3: to both help me decode it. Here's what happened.

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Speaker 2: I've seen this week people are taking the lyrics of

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Speaker 2: defying gravity and really holding space with that and feeling

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Speaker 2: power in that.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that that was happening. I've seen that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really powerful.

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Speaker 3: That's why I wanted I don't know that was happening.

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Speaker 1: Is that the one where I've seen the meme where

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Speaker 1: Ariana Grande is holding Cynthia Arrivo's long fake fingernail while

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Speaker 1: they're talking.

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Speaker 3: He's just grabbing it. She's just holding clutching out for

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Speaker 3: safe Holly, you haven't seen the movie. What do you

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Speaker 3: think it means to hold space for define gravity?

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Speaker 2: I don't understand it, any of it. Okay, nothing, No,

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Speaker 2: I do. I'm being facetious because I did want to

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Speaker 2: understand because I've seen it everywhere, and everybody's been crying

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Speaker 2: a lot, including people in the Mama Mer office have

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Speaker 2: been crying a lot. And I don't have a connection

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Speaker 2: to Wicked This is the thing about musicals is you're

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Speaker 2: either really connected to a musical or you're not. And

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Speaker 2: I understand the emotional connection because I love a musical

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Speaker 2: and they are sentimental by nature, and they are earnest

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Speaker 2: by nature, because we don't really go around singing our feelings,

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Speaker 2: but in a musical you do, right, So I understand

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Speaker 2: all that, but I personally don't have a connection. But

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Speaker 2: when I read an interview with the journalist Tracy Ilgilchrist,

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Speaker 2: because my god, we've got very sort of story within

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Speaker 2: a story within a story. Now. She was interviewed by

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Speaker 2: a variety about that viral interview, and she explained that

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Speaker 2: it was also about the time because Trump had just won,

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Speaker 2: Queer people feeling very frightened of what's the head. Musical

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Speaker 2: theater very important in queer community, and so she wrote,

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Speaker 2: when Cynthia sings I'm through accepting limits, there's power in that.

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Speaker 2: And she's playing a character who's othered and one who

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Speaker 2: comes into a power when she's exiled by a charlatan

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Speaker 2: and a cruel leader.

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Speaker 1: So it's all like.

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Speaker 2: Being imposed on our on what's going on in the world.

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Speaker 2: And that made more sense to me. Is that way

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Speaker 2: everyone's crying.

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Speaker 3: Yes, But the other element is that what's so funny

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Speaker 3: about that interview is that she basically admitted that she

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Speaker 3: she'dn't bungle it. But has anyone ever got halfway through

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Speaker 3: an interview question realize you don't know where you're going

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Speaker 3: and just said something that's weird and then just hoped

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Speaker 3: that they pick up. Yeah, that's what happened, because then Cynthia,

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Speaker 3: she had this amazing reaction. Gil Christ has said, I

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Speaker 3: didn't expect that reaction, and then she said, I've been

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Speaker 3: seeing a few things on social she actually did, and

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Speaker 3: it was just a friend of.

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Speaker 1: What's confusing is what she's reacting to. So let's just

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Speaker 1: go back a few steps for people who were like,

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Speaker 1: what is going on? Yeah, and why do I need

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Speaker 1: to care? The movie is like a prequel to the

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Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz, and it's about Glinda the Goodwitch and

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Speaker 1: Alpha bar the Wicked Witch who is green in the

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Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz movie, and it's their origin story.

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Speaker 2: And so the Wicked Witch in the Wizard of Oz,

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Speaker 2: the one that I was really scared of as a kid,

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Speaker 2: is Alpha Bay.

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Speaker 3: And so what the person did this is a fun fact.

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Speaker 2: It's like Darth Vader.

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Speaker 1: It's like how Alphaba went evil?

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, So the person who wrote the book in

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Speaker 3: nineteen ninety five, he was very influenced by the James

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Speaker 3: Bolger case in the UK, which was this horrific case

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Speaker 3: where two boys took a little boy and killed him,

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Speaker 3: and that made him question nature versus nurture and the

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Speaker 3: origins of evil. And so he took Alphaba, who was

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Speaker 3: seen as this wicked witch, and went, what would happen

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Speaker 3: if we reappraise this character? We made her the central

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Speaker 3: character and looked at was it a self fulfilling prophecy?

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Speaker 3: Calling her evil from the beginning? And that's what Wicked

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Speaker 3: is all about.

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Speaker 1: So Ariana Grande, of course, is the world famous pop star.

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Speaker 1: Cynthia Arrivo is a Tony Award winning, Grammy Award winning

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Speaker 1: Musical theater recording artist, actor, but less known. And this

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Speaker 1: movie has been in development for a really long time.

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Speaker 1: Took them two years to film because they filmed part

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Speaker 1: one and part two. So the movie that's out now

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Speaker 1: is just part one.

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Speaker 2: And it's three hours long.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and part two comes out next November. An we'll

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Speaker 1: have another tool now. Jesse and I went to see

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Speaker 1: it I knew nothing about Wicked, like really nothing, but

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Speaker 1: I'm always interested in hype, and I wanted to understand hype.

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Speaker 1: So Jesse and Claire took their cousin Simon to see it.

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Speaker 1: I went with Coco, my daughter, who was seeing it

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Speaker 1: for the second time. She's a massive Wicked fan, so

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Speaker 1: she was one of those people who had felt very emotional.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to look at my phone a little bit

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Speaker 1: and go outside and maybe get some snacks. She kept

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Speaker 1: getting cross with me when I would do.

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Speaker 3: Two hours in, we had to leave and get a.

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Speaker 1: Snatch a memory of text Holly saying we're still here.

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Speaker 2: I went to bed and he was still there.

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Speaker 1: Was long and what's happened is the sort of there's

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Speaker 1: a whole lot of gossip around the making of the

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Speaker 1: movie because that was when Ariana Grandez. It took them

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Speaker 1: two years, but arian and Grande's marriage broke down. She

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Speaker 1: then started a relationship with one of her co stars

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Speaker 1: in the film, Ethan Slater, who plays back from munchkin Land,

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Speaker 1: And that wasn't expected. And he was married at the

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Speaker 1: time and he had a child, or he'd previously separated

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Speaker 1: from his wife and he had a child, so that

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Speaker 1: was kind of a whole drama. But the press, too, interestingly,

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Speaker 1: hasn't been about any of that. It's been very much

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Speaker 1: about the friendship between Ariana and Cynthia. And as you say, Jesse,

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Speaker 1: what struck me is the earnestness, the earnestness of the fans,

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Speaker 1: the earnestness of the actors, the earnestness of this journalists

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Speaker 1: who were usually cynical, and everybody crying and it's easy

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Speaker 1: to kind of mock that, but one of the people

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Speaker 1: who was crying was our head of entertainment here at

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Speaker 1: Mamma Mia, Laura Nick, who hosts our podcast, The Spill,

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Speaker 1: and I actually wanted her to explain why she was crying.

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Speaker 3: I needed that, like the tears explained, because everyone said

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Speaker 3: there was a scene that was making them cry, and yeah,

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Speaker 3: I don't have a heart. So I walked out, going

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Speaker 3: what scene now?

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Speaker 1: And I don't want to make fun of people exactly

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Speaker 1: loved it. I just want to understand it. So dragged

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Speaker 1: her into the studio after she dried her eyes and

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Speaker 1: we just had a little chat about it so she

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Speaker 1: could explain. And here's a bit of our conversation.

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Speaker 5: As the Wizard and I which is so early in

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Speaker 5: the musical came on. I just felt uncontrollable. Sobs start

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Speaker 5: in my body, like not a pretty cry, like a

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Speaker 5: one tier, but like your whole net goes round, your

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Speaker 5: face goes red. And I continued for the two hour

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Speaker 5: and forty minutes of the rest of the movie.

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Speaker 1: And what were you crying about?

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Speaker 5: This is the thing. It's not the movie itself, although

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Speaker 5: that's really beautiful, but it's the history of it, I think,

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Speaker 5: is why people are getting so emotional.

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Speaker 1: History isn't that long. It's not like it's from.

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Speaker 5: Twenty years that's more than half my life.

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Speaker 1: I guess it is a long time for you. What

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Speaker 1: is it about the history that feels like it's some

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Speaker 1: triumph over adversity. Isn't it just a movie that's been

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Speaker 1: in development for a really long time. And no, it's

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Speaker 1: not the.

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Speaker 5: Movie that people are crying over. I'm sure some people are.

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Speaker 5: I'm not the kind of person who cries in a

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Speaker 5: movie because you've only spent a few hours with the characters,

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Speaker 5: and while it can be a bit emotional, you get

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Speaker 5: like a bit of a tear in the eye. I

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Speaker 5: think that sobbing has to come from years of build up,

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Speaker 5: and so it's actually from the stage show and people

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Speaker 5: remembering the first time they saw it, or the first

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Speaker 5: time they travel to see it with family, or playing

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Speaker 5: the soundtrack three moments of their life. Like, that's what

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Speaker 5: it is for me. When I had my first job

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Speaker 5: and I was earning no money, I use pretty much

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Speaker 5: my entire paycheck to fly to Melbourne to see Wicked

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Speaker 5: on stage for the first time, and I had no

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Speaker 5: money for the rest of the month, and I had

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Speaker 5: to steal a piece of bread from the newspaper I

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Speaker 5: was working at every day to toast on the way home.

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Speaker 5: But like, no regrets because that was such an incredible experience.

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Speaker 1: There are lots of musicals around though I saw La

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Speaker 1: Mis when I was young. I saw Rent. I love

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Speaker 1: a musical, But like when I saw the movie of Lems,

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Speaker 1: I didn't sam uncontrollably well.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I think that's between you and your musical.

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Speaker 4: God.

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Speaker 5: Everyone has a different emotional reaction to something, but I

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Speaker 5: think with Wicked there's a few different layers there. One

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Speaker 5: is that the story is so good, and I think

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Speaker 5: people really relate to that. It is mea don't pull

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Speaker 5: that through.

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Speaker 1: What's so good about it? Though?

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Speaker 5: It's a story I think that centers a really complex

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Speaker 5: female friendship in a way that we really don't see,

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Speaker 5: not in theater, but also rarely in movies and TV shows.

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Speaker 5: Also the love story that kind of unexpected enemies to lovers.

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Speaker 5: And also Alphabet is just a character that I think

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Speaker 5: so many people relate to because she is such an outsider.

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Speaker 5: She is green, but more so than that, she is

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Speaker 5: an outsider, she's an underdog. And she doesn't have a

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Speaker 5: makeover and become a different person. She just becomes a

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Speaker 5: hero from a different way. I understand how it becomes

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Speaker 5: more witchy. Yes, well, she becomes a like a champion

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Speaker 5: for the people. But all that's making it sound so worthy,

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Speaker 5: I think like in a way that you feel writing

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Speaker 5: an essay about why you would like Wicked. But I

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Speaker 5: think most people who love it don't love it because

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Speaker 5: of that. They love it because of the story and

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Speaker 5: the characters. And it's one of the rare musicals where

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Speaker 5: you could take the song which I wouldn't recommend because

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Speaker 5: the songs are amazing, but it stands alone without the songs.

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Speaker 5: It's about the characters.

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Speaker 2: I totally get all that right. I do cry when

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Speaker 2: I watch le Mith. Oh, I cry when I watch Hamilton.

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Speaker 2: Think about all the people you know who have like

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Speaker 2: outsize connections to kind of Disney musical songs and stuff.

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Speaker 2: It's a marriage of nostalgia and the sort of bold

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Speaker 2: strokes storytelling that you get in musicals, like very simplistic

312
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Speaker 2: good bad. How to push emotional buttons with sounds and

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Speaker 2: songs and lyrics totally makes sense. And you know, I

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Speaker 2: was thinking about because, as I said before, I don't

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Speaker 2: have an emotional connection to Wicked, because I just don't

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Speaker 2: have one. But if they made a live action version

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Speaker 2: of Hamilton, which I've seen a million times. You know,

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Speaker 2: I've listened to Hamilton in the Car a million times.

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Speaker 2: I've watched the live show a million times. If they

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Speaker 2: dramatized it into a seven hour movie experience, I would

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Speaker 2: be deeply invested. Who's going to play Angelica, Who's going

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Speaker 2: to play Lafayette? I would be deeply into it, And

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Speaker 2: I'd cry when they sang burn and I would be

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Speaker 2: a million times you've.

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Speaker 3: Been looking for the Easter eggs, which is the other

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Speaker 3: element of this is the way you can watch it.

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Speaker 3: Depending on your level of investment in Wicked. Law is variable.

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Speaker 3: But the other reason I think this is different is

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Speaker 3: because of what it says about bullying, an ostracization, like

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Speaker 3: good story, if you've ever felt ostracized, if you've ever

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Speaker 3: felt like you look different or you're marginalized, like an outsider.

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Speaker 2: Which is what that journalist was saying about. Yeah, everybody's

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Speaker 2: laughing about holding space for defying gravity, but in a

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Speaker 2: moment where you feel like being an outsider is very

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Speaker 2: much a dangerous place to be, this feels validating.

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Speaker 3: Exactly, And to have someone extend their hand to you

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Speaker 3: who does have some sort of social currency can feel

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Speaker 3: life changing, like it made me feel like a girl.

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Speaker 2: The cynic in me, though, does want to know how

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Speaker 2: you take a two hour stage musical and turn it

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Speaker 2: into a two part three hour even a time that

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00:16:07,207 --> 00:16:09,167
Speaker 2: goes on over two years, because the cynic in me says,

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Speaker 2: for one very simple reason, yes, to make lots and

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Speaker 2: lots and lots and lots of money.

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Speaker 3: So the thing that I compared this to when Claara

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Speaker 3: and I walked out was Harry Potter. So Harry Potter,

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Speaker 3: remember the last movie they split it into two Harry

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00:16:21,807 --> 00:16:23,967
Speaker 3: Potter fans were satisfied by that and wicked fans will

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Speaker 3: be satisfied by this. It felt very Harry Potter in

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Speaker 3: the development of the world. This adds more than what

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Speaker 3: the stage production does because the book is long, there

352
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Speaker 3: are so many threads, and it goes into the background

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Speaker 3: of Alpheber's life and pads it out more so imagine

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Speaker 3: watching a Hamilton musical, but it gives you more like

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Speaker 3: it's something that you know, adds extra.

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Speaker 2: Scenes, and it's got more backstory for certain characters. But

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Speaker 2: I really admired the commitment of the press tour. I

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Speaker 2: admired the fact that they were always apparently addressed in character. Yep,

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Speaker 2: they pretty much stayed in character it appeared, and they

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Speaker 2: were deeply invested in the experience in a way that

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Speaker 2: I understand if you spent like five years of your

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Speaker 2: life rehearsing, filming making the thing, you'd want to hope

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Speaker 2: that shit.

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Speaker 3: I'm in awe of how it's worked because this might

365
00:17:12,567 --> 00:17:15,007
Speaker 3: look on paper like a sure thing, but the success

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Speaker 3: of Wicked was not a sure thing. Remember Cats. It

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00:17:17,607 --> 00:17:21,447
Speaker 3: was also by Universe Musicals, a cotal flop. I think

368
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Speaker 3: West Side Story didn't do what they wanted it to do.

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Speaker 3: This had an enormous budget, it needed to work, and

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Speaker 3: I reckon, you know, they've sat in a room and gone,

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Speaker 3: how can we make this go viral? And the press tour,

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Speaker 3: I think that that's contributed enormously to the success.

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Speaker 2: They've been working hard for their money, because my god,

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Speaker 2: that tour feels like it's been going on for six months.

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Speaker 1: There are two things that I took away from it.

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Speaker 1: The first is that we always laugh at things that

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00:17:45,927 --> 00:17:49,447
Speaker 1: women and girls enjoy. We always mock them, we always

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00:17:49,447 --> 00:17:53,727
Speaker 1: deride them, whether it's you know, fandom and people who

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00:17:53,767 --> 00:17:56,127
Speaker 1: go to concerts, whether they were screaming for the Beatles

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00:17:56,207 --> 00:18:00,447
Speaker 1: or crying about Taylor Swift or one direction. And the

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00:18:00,527 --> 00:18:05,927
Speaker 1: other thing is it's made me see how the downside

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00:18:05,967 --> 00:18:09,127
Speaker 1: of it is calling it earnestness, but you could also

383
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Speaker 1: say it's genuine. It's not cynical. It's like people are

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Speaker 1: just not going and trying to be clever and they're

385
00:18:15,767 --> 00:18:17,447
Speaker 1: not trying to be Oh yeah, it was a movie

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00:18:17,447 --> 00:18:19,527
Speaker 1: and it was this and blah blah. It was like

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00:18:19,607 --> 00:18:23,327
Speaker 1: everyone's like, no, I loved this, I loved making this,

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Speaker 1: and people are like I loved watching this. I love this,

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Speaker 1: And there's no satire or wink or wanting to be cool,

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00:18:32,087 --> 00:18:33,967
Speaker 1: like there's no cool girl about it at all.

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Speaker 3: I like that, Yeah, yeah, very you know what it is.

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Speaker 3: It's also the full embrace of the theater kid. It's

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00:18:39,847 --> 00:18:42,767
Speaker 3: like the theater kid has felt marginalized and ostracized. And

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Speaker 3: I think this is why it struck such a chord

395
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Speaker 3: with the queer community as well, because it's not cool

396
00:18:46,447 --> 00:18:47,927
Speaker 3: to try it, because it's not cool to try And

397
00:18:47,927 --> 00:18:50,687
Speaker 3: when you look at Cynthia and Ariana and the way

398
00:18:50,687 --> 00:18:53,367
Speaker 3: that they speak to people, it is so theater kid.

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00:18:53,487 --> 00:18:55,527
Speaker 3: Like some of us who are not theater kids, because

400
00:18:55,567 --> 00:18:57,407
Speaker 3: we can't sing to save our lives.

401
00:18:57,087 --> 00:18:57,767
Speaker 1: It seems silly.

402
00:18:57,847 --> 00:19:00,407
Speaker 3: We just go why is everyone crying? Which I think

403
00:19:00,487 --> 00:19:03,167
Speaker 3: is still a valid response, and that's why it does

404
00:19:03,207 --> 00:19:06,087
Speaker 3: feel earnest and I think I think the fan reaction

405
00:19:06,247 --> 00:19:09,007
Speaker 3: is genuine. I think that these two women are vaguely

406
00:19:09,047 --> 00:19:11,767
Speaker 3: still character I think that there is something about them

407
00:19:11,847 --> 00:19:14,207
Speaker 3: that works. They've seen the disaster of the It Ends

408
00:19:14,247 --> 00:19:17,407
Speaker 3: with Us press tour, Madam Webb was when Dakota Johnson

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00:19:17,567 --> 00:19:20,927
Speaker 3: went on tour and basically admitted to hating the movie.

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00:19:21,367 --> 00:19:24,007
Speaker 1: But I think they're fans. I mean, that's what's really clear.

411
00:19:24,127 --> 00:19:27,407
Speaker 1: And is Arianna was saying, people in my team said

412
00:19:27,407 --> 00:19:29,927
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have to audition because you know, and I

413
00:19:29,967 --> 00:19:32,287
Speaker 1: was like, oh no, you don't understand. Everyone has to audition,

414
00:19:32,327 --> 00:19:33,567
Speaker 1: and everyone did have to audition.

415
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Speaker 2: But she's been singing those songs since she was a child,

416
00:19:36,367 --> 00:19:38,967
Speaker 2: because I've seen the videos. She's literally been singing those

417
00:19:39,007 --> 00:19:41,167
Speaker 2: songs since she was a child. So it meant a lot.

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Speaker 2: So it wasn't just another gig.

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Speaker 6: Yeah out loud as.

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Speaker 1: If you want to listen to us every day of

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Speaker 1: the week, you can get access to exclusive segments on

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00:20:03,807 --> 00:20:08,127
Speaker 1: Tuesdays and Thursdays by becoming a Muma mea subscriber. Follow

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Speaker 1: the link in the show notes to subscribe and support us.

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00:20:10,847 --> 00:20:13,487
Speaker 1: And a big thank you to all our current subscribers.

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Speaker 4: Lastly, I wanted to tank my door Freyer, who I'm

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Speaker 4: most grateful for. She has given me so much strength

427
00:20:27,687 --> 00:20:30,607
Speaker 4: and courage over the last six years throughout this nightmare

428
00:20:30,727 --> 00:20:33,807
Speaker 4: to keep on pushing forward for justice. I want to

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Speaker 4: show Freyer and every other girl I'm by that you

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Speaker 4: can stand up for yourself if something happens to you,

431
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Speaker 4: no matter who the person is, and justice will be served.

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Speaker 2: A thirty five year old Irish hairdresser speaking outside Dublin's

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Speaker 2: High Court after a civil case ruled that she had

434
00:20:50,247 --> 00:20:55,967
Speaker 2: been sexually and physically assaulted by Connor McGregor, an MMA superstar. Now,

435
00:20:56,007 --> 00:20:57,967
Speaker 2: if you don't know who he is, a very top

436
00:20:58,007 --> 00:21:01,007
Speaker 2: line view. He is a boxer and a mixed martial

437
00:21:01,087 --> 00:21:03,887
Speaker 2: arts fighter whose fame has reached the kind of level

438
00:21:03,967 --> 00:21:07,287
Speaker 2: that means he now stars in Hollywood movies. Earlier this

439
00:21:07,407 --> 00:21:11,447
Speaker 2: year he was in Roadhouse with Jake Chillenhall, which was

440
00:21:11,487 --> 00:21:14,287
Speaker 2: a remake of the classic Patrick Swayzey movie, and he

441
00:21:14,367 --> 00:21:17,487
Speaker 2: and Jillenhall did all the usual promotional rounds. They went

442
00:21:17,527 --> 00:21:20,367
Speaker 2: on big note podcasts like Armchair Expert, and they were

443
00:21:20,367 --> 00:21:22,807
Speaker 2: interviewed playing with puppies on BuzzFeed, and they were very

444
00:21:22,847 --> 00:21:26,047
Speaker 2: much like Connor was very much sort of being morphed

445
00:21:26,047 --> 00:21:28,287
Speaker 2: a little bit into he's a Hollywood superstar. Now you

446
00:21:28,287 --> 00:21:31,127
Speaker 2: could imagine him being in action movies like Jason Staith

447
00:21:31,127 --> 00:21:31,447
Speaker 2: and you.

448
00:21:31,407 --> 00:21:34,047
Speaker 3: Know that kind of stuff, like a Dwayne the Rock Johnson.

449
00:21:34,607 --> 00:21:38,367
Speaker 3: I think that's kind of johnsena The Vision. A couple

450
00:21:38,447 --> 00:21:41,327
Speaker 3: of years ago, he was ranked the highest paid athlete

451
00:21:41,327 --> 00:21:43,687
Speaker 3: in the world by Forbes, bringing in a reported one

452
00:21:43,727 --> 00:21:46,887
Speaker 3: hundred and eighty million dollars. He is a major draw

453
00:21:47,007 --> 00:21:51,167
Speaker 3: card for MMA, and that industry is becoming increasingly successful

454
00:21:51,247 --> 00:21:55,487
Speaker 3: and important in the manosphere. Bros like Joe Rogan love it.

455
00:21:55,487 --> 00:21:58,367
Speaker 3: It's a business worth around twelve billion and he is

456
00:21:58,407 --> 00:22:00,567
Speaker 3: one of the biggest deals within that business.

457
00:22:00,927 --> 00:22:03,527
Speaker 1: So is MMA Mixed martial arts? Is it like a

458
00:22:03,607 --> 00:22:06,007
Speaker 1: more full on form of boxing.

459
00:22:06,247 --> 00:22:09,487
Speaker 2: Yes, because you can kick, you can although you can

460
00:22:09,567 --> 00:22:12,927
Speaker 2: fly at people like it's it's sort of more dynamically.

461
00:22:12,327 --> 00:22:15,767
Speaker 1: Boxing rules faster, and it's a big deal.

462
00:22:17,287 --> 00:22:20,407
Speaker 2: Nikita Hand, by contrast, was a young single mum in

463
00:22:20,447 --> 00:22:23,127
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen when she was out at a Christmas party

464
00:22:23,207 --> 00:22:25,847
Speaker 2: and was invited back to McGregor's hotel to kick on

465
00:22:25,967 --> 00:22:29,087
Speaker 2: after last drinks. She knew him a little bit in Dublin,

466
00:22:29,167 --> 00:22:33,047
Speaker 2: her family knew his partner's family, she alleges, and the

467
00:22:33,047 --> 00:22:36,767
Speaker 2: civil case judge now agrees that at those drinks she

468
00:22:36,887 --> 00:22:39,807
Speaker 2: rejected his sexual advances that night, but he pinned her

469
00:22:39,807 --> 00:22:42,567
Speaker 2: to a bed, placed in a chokehold, and assaulted her.

470
00:22:43,247 --> 00:22:46,527
Speaker 2: She went straight to emergency. A paramedic who examined Nikita

471
00:22:46,567 --> 00:22:48,487
Speaker 2: in the aftermath told the court that she had not

472
00:22:48,647 --> 00:22:52,367
Speaker 2: seen someone so bruised in a long time. McGregor has

473
00:22:52,407 --> 00:22:55,887
Speaker 2: always said that the sex was consensual. In the six

474
00:22:55,967 --> 00:22:59,567
Speaker 2: years since, prosecutors declined to bring charges against McGregor on

475
00:22:59,607 --> 00:23:03,887
Speaker 2: this case, citing insufficient evidence and unlikely chance at conviction,

476
00:23:04,087 --> 00:23:05,367
Speaker 2: I just don't understand.

477
00:23:05,447 --> 00:23:07,927
Speaker 1: I know, I'm not a lawyer or a judge, and

478
00:23:07,967 --> 00:23:10,927
Speaker 1: I also understand that different people like different types of sex.

479
00:23:11,807 --> 00:23:16,407
Speaker 1: But in terms of just basic logic and plausibility, for

480
00:23:16,487 --> 00:23:20,367
Speaker 1: a woman to have allegedly had consensual sex and be

481
00:23:20,487 --> 00:23:22,847
Speaker 1: so bruised that she had to go to a hospital,

482
00:23:23,607 --> 00:23:25,647
Speaker 1: what woman would have consented to that?

483
00:23:26,327 --> 00:23:30,327
Speaker 2: Indeed, Nikita has been labeled a fraud, a gold digger,

484
00:23:30,407 --> 00:23:33,207
Speaker 2: and she even had a gang of masked men break

485
00:23:33,207 --> 00:23:37,767
Speaker 2: into her home, smash her windows, and stab her boyfriend. Still,

486
00:23:37,887 --> 00:23:40,807
Speaker 2: over these six years, she chose to keep fighting and

487
00:23:40,847 --> 00:23:42,927
Speaker 2: the only option left to her was to bring a

488
00:23:42,967 --> 00:23:45,887
Speaker 2: civil case against McGregor, which she did and she won.

489
00:23:46,007 --> 00:23:47,807
Speaker 2: And that's where we are. That's what you heard her

490
00:23:47,847 --> 00:23:50,887
Speaker 2: talking about that at the beginning of this Now what's

491
00:23:50,927 --> 00:23:53,367
Speaker 2: interesting to me is that we're seeing more and more

492
00:23:53,407 --> 00:23:56,407
Speaker 2: sexual assault cases going to civil trial. Donald Trump and

493
00:23:56,447 --> 00:23:59,247
Speaker 2: Bruce Lehman are two other high profile men found guilty

494
00:23:59,287 --> 00:24:02,887
Speaker 2: in those circumstances, and I want to know if it

495
00:24:03,047 --> 00:24:07,167
Speaker 2: kind of has the same impact. Obviously, the reason that

496
00:24:07,207 --> 00:24:10,727
Speaker 2: a civil case might be successful criminal case might not

497
00:24:11,327 --> 00:24:13,007
Speaker 2: is that it does not need to be proven beyond

498
00:24:13,047 --> 00:24:16,247
Speaker 2: a reasonable doubt, but on the balance of probabilities that

499
00:24:16,327 --> 00:24:20,007
Speaker 2: it happens. So, for example, Mia, what you just said about, like,

500
00:24:20,767 --> 00:24:23,047
Speaker 2: if this woman was this badly hurt like that is

501
00:24:23,047 --> 00:24:25,967
Speaker 2: more likely to be considered closely in a civil case

502
00:24:25,967 --> 00:24:27,047
Speaker 2: than in a criminal case.

503
00:24:27,127 --> 00:24:30,767
Speaker 3: Right, and criminal case you go to prison yep, and

504
00:24:30,847 --> 00:24:32,927
Speaker 3: civil case yet Okay, So.

505
00:24:32,887 --> 00:24:35,847
Speaker 2: A criminal case can send a man to jail and

506
00:24:35,887 --> 00:24:38,847
Speaker 2: a civil case cannot. And also a criminal case has

507
00:24:38,887 --> 00:24:41,887
Speaker 2: to be brought kind of by the state or the crown,

508
00:24:42,647 --> 00:24:45,767
Speaker 2: and a civil case is brought by the accuser. So

509
00:24:45,887 --> 00:24:49,207
Speaker 2: Nakida hand has brought this case against Conor McGregor, right,

510
00:24:49,967 --> 00:24:52,527
Speaker 2: But in the case of McGregor, who has been accused

511
00:24:52,567 --> 00:24:56,447
Speaker 2: of sexualisconduct at least three times before, I want to

512
00:24:56,527 --> 00:24:59,047
Speaker 2: understand if a finding like this has a similar level

513
00:24:59,047 --> 00:25:03,367
Speaker 2: of impact on his reputation, because if he's had this reputation,

514
00:25:03,407 --> 00:25:05,647
Speaker 2: everyone's known this case is hanging around. We know these

515
00:25:05,647 --> 00:25:08,567
Speaker 2: other allegations have been hanging around it. Obviously, wasn't stopping

516
00:25:08,567 --> 00:25:11,847
Speaker 2: his advancement into a Hollywood career and stuff, or impacting

517
00:25:11,847 --> 00:25:15,327
Speaker 2: his fireding credentials, or stopping him from opening a brewery,

518
00:25:15,407 --> 00:25:18,167
Speaker 2: owning lots of businesses, all the things he does. I

519
00:25:18,167 --> 00:25:21,167
Speaker 2: don't care personally about this man's ability to remain an

520
00:25:21,167 --> 00:25:24,007
Speaker 2: incredibly wealthy and influential person, But I want to know

521
00:25:24,567 --> 00:25:27,887
Speaker 2: if this is an effective recourse when we know how

522
00:25:27,927 --> 00:25:31,167
Speaker 2: difficult criminal charges are to get up. Is this a

523
00:25:31,207 --> 00:25:34,887
Speaker 2: good option and does it change everything for econom McGregor Jesse.

524
00:25:35,287 --> 00:25:38,087
Speaker 3: They probably won't. I'm thinking back to the civil case

525
00:25:38,407 --> 00:25:40,807
Speaker 3: that Amber heard won. Remember she won a civil case

526
00:25:40,807 --> 00:25:44,447
Speaker 3: against Johnny Depp before the other case that we saw

527
00:25:44,607 --> 00:25:47,847
Speaker 3: that played out all over TikTok, and that was basically

528
00:25:48,367 --> 00:25:51,367
Speaker 3: barely a footnote in any of it. Look, it's made

529
00:25:51,407 --> 00:25:54,967
Speaker 3: an immediate difference for Conor McGregor in that he has

530
00:25:55,087 --> 00:25:57,567
Speaker 3: been dropped by the whiskey company he co owns, which

531
00:25:57,607 --> 00:26:00,087
Speaker 3: is a significant financial hit. That's where a lot of

532
00:26:00,087 --> 00:26:03,247
Speaker 3: his money has come from. And he's been removed from

533
00:26:03,407 --> 00:26:05,727
Speaker 3: a video game he was featured in.

534
00:26:05,727 --> 00:26:07,927
Speaker 2: Which is big business. It's worth noting that we might

535
00:26:08,007 --> 00:26:09,927
Speaker 2: go like, oh, video game that's not like a movie,

536
00:26:09,927 --> 00:26:12,447
Speaker 2: but actually bigger, there's more money in it. There's a

537
00:26:12,527 --> 00:26:14,527
Speaker 2: character based on him that looks like him and is

538
00:26:14,607 --> 00:26:17,247
Speaker 2: him in a game called Hitman, and that's a big

539
00:26:17,287 --> 00:26:18,527
Speaker 2: deal way that people make money.

540
00:26:18,647 --> 00:26:21,527
Speaker 1: Yeah, when I went to IMDb to look at his

541
00:26:22,167 --> 00:26:25,087
Speaker 1: you know, acting credits and stuff, most of them, apart

542
00:26:25,087 --> 00:26:28,367
Speaker 1: from Roadhouse, most of them were for video games, including

543
00:26:28,847 --> 00:26:32,167
Speaker 1: Call of Duty, and so I didn't realize what a

544
00:26:32,207 --> 00:26:33,767
Speaker 1: big deal that was. That's really interesting.

545
00:26:33,767 --> 00:26:37,567
Speaker 3: It also a great Crisis organization in Ireland called for

546
00:26:37,647 --> 00:26:40,487
Speaker 3: the Whiskey Company to separate themselves from him because to

547
00:26:40,527 --> 00:26:43,167
Speaker 3: walk in and see Conor McGregor's face everywhere, when he

548
00:26:43,207 --> 00:26:44,927
Speaker 3: has now been found in a court of law, in

549
00:26:44,927 --> 00:26:48,287
Speaker 3: this civil court, to you know, have done this to

550
00:26:48,367 --> 00:26:51,847
Speaker 3: a woman that obviously says something, well, it's a.

551
00:26:51,847 --> 00:26:55,407
Speaker 1: Little bit hard to expect any kind of justice for

552
00:26:55,487 --> 00:26:59,607
Speaker 1: Nikita or any kind of consequence for Connor when the

553
00:26:59,607 --> 00:27:03,287
Speaker 1: current President of the United States, newly elected, was found

554
00:27:03,367 --> 00:27:06,007
Speaker 1: liable of the same thing. The thing a civil case

555
00:27:06,007 --> 00:27:06,647
Speaker 1: in America.

556
00:27:06,687 --> 00:27:08,807
Speaker 3: The thing this does do for victims, which I think

557
00:27:08,847 --> 00:27:12,967
Speaker 3: is signal, is that financial compensation means that if you

558
00:27:13,167 --> 00:27:17,607
Speaker 3: are suffering from PTSD, if you have likely you can't work.

559
00:27:17,647 --> 00:27:19,367
Speaker 3: When you're doing a court case like this, you can't.

560
00:27:19,367 --> 00:27:22,287
Speaker 3: You absolutely can't work. She's trying to raise a daughter

561
00:27:22,367 --> 00:27:24,127
Speaker 3: on her own. She has suffered enormously.

562
00:27:24,207 --> 00:27:25,767
Speaker 1: I think the costs of a cookcase.

563
00:27:25,927 --> 00:27:29,087
Speaker 3: Yes, I hope that that is some sort of you know,

564
00:27:29,127 --> 00:27:30,087
Speaker 3: renumeration for.

565
00:27:30,047 --> 00:27:33,607
Speaker 2: Watching interestingly, So she got awarded around the equivalent of

566
00:27:33,647 --> 00:27:36,247
Speaker 2: four hundred thousand Australian dollars, which obviously is a lot

567
00:27:36,247 --> 00:27:39,287
Speaker 2: of money, but it's not an enormous amount of money

568
00:27:39,287 --> 00:27:41,887
Speaker 2: in the scheme of things. And McGregor obviously has continues

569
00:27:41,927 --> 00:27:43,527
Speaker 2: to deny it and say he's going to appeal. And

570
00:27:43,567 --> 00:27:46,287
Speaker 2: he said, oh, the modest amount that was given to

571
00:27:46,327 --> 00:27:48,167
Speaker 2: her shows how the case was a bit you know,

572
00:27:48,287 --> 00:27:51,967
Speaker 2: that's his position, right. It's a very fair point Mia

573
00:27:52,007 --> 00:27:54,287
Speaker 2: that when the President of the United States was found

574
00:27:54,487 --> 00:27:58,687
Speaker 2: liable in a very similar circumstance, it's hard to imagine consequences,

575
00:27:59,087 --> 00:28:03,087
Speaker 2: but it does have more serious reputational damage than just

576
00:28:03,167 --> 00:28:05,487
Speaker 2: the allegation sloating around, do you know what I mean?

577
00:28:05,567 --> 00:28:08,767
Speaker 2: Like if Roadhouse was coming out now, it would be

578
00:28:08,807 --> 00:28:11,687
Speaker 2: hard to imagine watching him playing with puppies on BuzzFeed

579
00:28:11,847 --> 00:28:15,327
Speaker 2: or sitting down with big names like Dax Shephard or whatever.

580
00:28:15,367 --> 00:28:18,407
Speaker 2: In an interview situation, you would imagine the calls to

581
00:28:18,447 --> 00:28:20,927
Speaker 2: the publicist would be a bit more like, we don't

582
00:28:20,927 --> 00:28:22,567
Speaker 2: want Connor and that, you know what I mean.

583
00:28:22,607 --> 00:28:24,367
Speaker 1: It would be hard to not ask him about this.

584
00:28:24,487 --> 00:28:28,687
Speaker 1: If you're a credible journalist or media company, the money

585
00:28:28,727 --> 00:28:32,407
Speaker 1: itself is never going to be enough to make up

586
00:28:32,447 --> 00:28:34,767
Speaker 1: for you know, Nikita's had a house set on fire.

587
00:28:35,127 --> 00:28:36,847
Speaker 2: She said she fared for her life and the life

588
00:28:36,847 --> 00:28:37,927
Speaker 2: of her family for a long time.

589
00:28:37,967 --> 00:28:41,487
Speaker 1: You can only imagine. But what I thought was interesting,

590
00:28:41,527 --> 00:28:44,447
Speaker 1: which I sort of hadn't registered, is that in a

591
00:28:44,487 --> 00:28:48,607
Speaker 1: criminal case, that's up to the state, Whereas so much

592
00:28:48,687 --> 00:28:51,887
Speaker 1: of what the victims of crime will say is that

593
00:28:52,127 --> 00:28:56,367
Speaker 1: the powerlessness that they feel. And I've had some small

594
00:28:56,447 --> 00:29:00,727
Speaker 1: experience in this myself, and I would echo that feeling.

595
00:29:01,527 --> 00:29:05,607
Speaker 1: But when you take a civil action, you've got the power.

596
00:29:06,047 --> 00:29:09,887
Speaker 1: And the problem is that people will say she's just

597
00:29:10,007 --> 00:29:12,327
Speaker 1: doing it for the money, because that's the criticism that

598
00:29:12,367 --> 00:29:15,687
Speaker 1: can be leveled in a civil case. But at what cost,

599
00:29:16,087 --> 00:29:16,727
Speaker 1: you know, well.

600
00:29:16,647 --> 00:29:18,967
Speaker 3: Yeah, the fact that she kept going after all of

601
00:29:19,007 --> 00:29:21,287
Speaker 3: those threats. And the other thing about a civil case

602
00:29:21,327 --> 00:29:23,767
Speaker 3: is that there are now details on the public record, yeah,

603
00:29:23,807 --> 00:29:26,847
Speaker 3: that I think we will never forget. There are details

604
00:29:26,887 --> 00:29:29,687
Speaker 3: in this case that Holly, you didn't read out because

605
00:29:29,727 --> 00:29:33,047
Speaker 3: they're quite distressing, but they are damning and I can't

606
00:29:33,047 --> 00:29:35,687
Speaker 3: look at Connor McGregor's face without thinking about them.

607
00:29:35,767 --> 00:29:38,487
Speaker 2: His supporters, and you'll see some of these headlines around

608
00:29:38,487 --> 00:29:40,887
Speaker 2: now are saying the cancelation of Connor McGregor has begun.

609
00:29:41,367 --> 00:29:45,447
Speaker 2: It's witch hunt, blah blah blah. But actually, in this case,

610
00:29:45,487 --> 00:29:49,567
Speaker 2: the reputational damage obviously from where I sit, I'm like,

611
00:29:49,727 --> 00:29:50,207
Speaker 2: bring it on.

612
00:29:50,567 --> 00:29:53,847
Speaker 3: Yeah. And he was sitting in the witness stand and

613
00:29:54,247 --> 00:29:58,207
Speaker 3: some journalists described it as watching his mask slip. You

614
00:29:58,247 --> 00:30:00,847
Speaker 3: could see moments where the rage came out, where he

615
00:30:01,007 --> 00:30:04,327
Speaker 3: said horrific things. The same thing happened actually with Mike Tyson,

616
00:30:04,367 --> 00:30:06,407
Speaker 3: who was found guilty of a criminal case. He was

617
00:30:06,407 --> 00:30:09,447
Speaker 3: convicted of rape in nineteen ninety two. I think he's

618
00:30:09,487 --> 00:30:12,847
Speaker 3: an important case study because he wasn't caussed in the hangover.

619
00:30:13,127 --> 00:30:15,767
Speaker 3: Five months after he got out of prison, he served

620
00:30:15,847 --> 00:30:18,567
Speaker 3: time for this. Five months after that he was fighting

621
00:30:18,767 --> 00:30:21,167
Speaker 3: again and just recently and.

622
00:30:21,087 --> 00:30:23,687
Speaker 1: Acting again in a funny, lovable role in a family

623
00:30:23,807 --> 00:30:24,527
Speaker 1: kind of a film.

624
00:30:24,567 --> 00:30:27,967
Speaker 3: Recently, he fought Jake Paul in what was one of

625
00:30:28,007 --> 00:30:31,127
Speaker 3: the most watched I think sporting events of all time.

626
00:30:31,727 --> 00:30:34,487
Speaker 3: In all of my reading and all of the coverage,

627
00:30:34,527 --> 00:30:36,887
Speaker 3: you barely even saw. Oh, this man is a convicted

628
00:30:36,927 --> 00:30:39,447
Speaker 3: rapist that barely barely came up and he has also

629
00:30:39,487 --> 00:30:42,607
Speaker 3: been accused by his ex wife of violence. Yes, so

630
00:30:42,647 --> 00:30:45,407
Speaker 3: there are a lot of men you know walking among us.

631
00:30:45,447 --> 00:30:48,367
Speaker 3: I would say Mike Tyson is the most famous convicted

632
00:30:48,447 --> 00:30:52,487
Speaker 3: rapist and that has barely damaged his reputation. If this

633
00:30:52,567 --> 00:30:54,967
Speaker 3: has raised any issues for you, or if you feel

634
00:30:54,967 --> 00:30:57,447
Speaker 3: like you need to speak to someone, help is available.

635
00:30:57,807 --> 00:31:01,887
Speaker 3: Please take care and contact Lifeline or Respect. We will

636
00:31:01,927 --> 00:31:04,727
Speaker 3: pop links to those resources in our show notes.

637
00:31:16,487 --> 00:31:19,327
Speaker 1: In case you missed it. Chat GPT is helping you

638
00:31:19,367 --> 00:31:22,407
Speaker 1: figure out what to buy your family or friends or

639
00:31:22,967 --> 00:31:26,887
Speaker 1: teacher at school for Christmas. If you don't know what

640
00:31:27,047 --> 00:31:29,847
Speaker 1: to get someone as a Christmas gift. I always find

641
00:31:29,847 --> 00:31:32,367
Speaker 1: this so hard, and the default of a cented candle

642
00:31:32,567 --> 00:31:35,847
Speaker 1: just doesn't cut it. After this many years of scented candles,

643
00:31:35,967 --> 00:31:37,407
Speaker 1: no one wants I love.

644
00:31:39,127 --> 00:31:41,807
Speaker 2: But only if they're fancy, don't check on.

645
00:31:42,967 --> 00:31:46,127
Speaker 3: I always end up googling lists and I end up

646
00:31:46,167 --> 00:31:48,927
Speaker 3: on some website that probably has affiliate links that goes,

647
00:31:49,007 --> 00:31:52,287
Speaker 3: you should buy your husband a beard oil, and I'm like,

648
00:31:52,327 --> 00:31:54,647
Speaker 3: that's beard oil, a beard oil, and I'm like, this

649
00:31:54,687 --> 00:31:56,767
Speaker 3: isn't right. So chat GPT I feel like could be

650
00:31:56,767 --> 00:31:57,287
Speaker 3: a step up.

651
00:31:57,447 --> 00:32:00,527
Speaker 1: Also because gifts I love language, I don't care about them.

652
00:32:00,607 --> 00:32:03,127
Speaker 1: I don't like buying gifts for people. I prefer buying

653
00:32:03,127 --> 00:32:06,727
Speaker 1: gifts and myself, and you don't need chat GPT for that.

654
00:32:06,847 --> 00:32:10,687
Speaker 1: But anyway, what people are doing is going to chat GPT,

655
00:32:11,047 --> 00:32:13,567
Speaker 1: which you can download as an app, and.

656
00:32:13,527 --> 00:32:15,367
Speaker 3: You can also use it just as a website, which

657
00:32:15,727 --> 00:32:15,967
Speaker 3: I do.

658
00:32:16,207 --> 00:32:19,967
Speaker 1: So you need to describe what the person is like,

659
00:32:20,167 --> 00:32:23,367
Speaker 1: maybe what they're interested in. I also put in price

660
00:32:23,447 --> 00:32:25,967
Speaker 1: point for you too, so.

661
00:32:25,967 --> 00:32:28,087
Speaker 3: The prompt was a sorry point.

662
00:32:28,207 --> 00:32:29,007
Speaker 1: The prompts that I.

663
00:32:29,007 --> 00:32:33,047
Speaker 3: Did for you both under twenty dollars, well, that was awkward,

664
00:32:33,127 --> 00:32:33,447
Speaker 3: wasn't it.

665
00:32:33,847 --> 00:32:36,487
Speaker 1: So I said, what should I buy for Christmas for

666
00:32:36,567 --> 00:32:39,367
Speaker 1: my female friend who is fifty three, lives in regional

667
00:32:39,407 --> 00:32:41,807
Speaker 1: New South Wales and loves gardening. I want to spend

668
00:32:41,847 --> 00:32:48,167
Speaker 1: less than one hundred dollars fifty two. I'm sorry no,

669
00:32:48,247 --> 00:32:52,527
Speaker 1: but by Christmas. Yeah, they will be correct. And some

670
00:32:52,567 --> 00:32:55,367
Speaker 1: of the things that it suggested, like some of them

671
00:32:55,367 --> 00:33:00,327
Speaker 1: were fairly predictable. Gave me maybe twenty ideas right with subheadings, Yeah,

672
00:33:00,367 --> 00:33:03,607
Speaker 1: with subheadings under like practical gardening gifts. Some of them

673
00:33:03,607 --> 00:33:06,487
Speaker 1: were very boring, like gardening tool set or gardening gloves

674
00:33:06,567 --> 00:33:12,767
Speaker 1: or no personalized garden tool tote. What. Then there were

675
00:33:12,807 --> 00:33:16,927
Speaker 1: like decorative gifts like garden wind chimes and plant markers, whatever,

676
00:33:16,967 --> 00:33:21,487
Speaker 1: books and inspiration, unique and fun ideas, experience or subscription gifts.

677
00:33:21,967 --> 00:33:23,447
Speaker 1: There's so many different things.

678
00:33:23,967 --> 00:33:25,927
Speaker 3: I'm smarter than you because what I typed in is

679
00:33:25,967 --> 00:33:27,887
Speaker 3: my prompt was what should I buy Holly Wainwright?

680
00:33:27,967 --> 00:33:29,847
Speaker 1: That's what I did. I said, what should I buy?

681
00:33:29,887 --> 00:33:30,047
Speaker 4: Beer?

682
00:33:30,087 --> 00:33:34,927
Speaker 3: Freedman, I watched I buy Holly wayIn Wright and GPT

683
00:33:35,167 --> 00:33:37,407
Speaker 3: know who we are? Well, I thought they did, but

684
00:33:37,447 --> 00:33:39,807
Speaker 3: it said. Holly Wainwright is a well known Australian author

685
00:33:39,847 --> 00:33:43,167
Speaker 3: and podcast host, particularly recognized for her work with Muma

686
00:33:43,167 --> 00:33:45,727
Speaker 3: Maya and her books including The Mummy Bloggers and I

687
00:33:45,847 --> 00:33:47,407
Speaker 3: Give My Mummy a B plus.

688
00:33:49,887 --> 00:33:53,127
Speaker 2: This is why we can't entirely trust the robots.

689
00:33:53,327 --> 00:33:56,967
Speaker 1: That's one of lessons in the world. Now it's just

690
00:33:57,007 --> 00:34:00,567
Speaker 1: a little bit wrong because GPT is really good, but

691
00:34:00,687 --> 00:34:02,127
Speaker 1: not really really good.

692
00:34:02,247 --> 00:34:04,047
Speaker 3: It's just to be clear. That book's called I Give

693
00:34:04,087 --> 00:34:08,127
Speaker 3: My Marriage a Year, but it gave me some really

694
00:34:08,167 --> 00:34:08,607
Speaker 3: good idea.

695
00:34:09,327 --> 00:34:11,967
Speaker 5: Plus, that's my next book.

696
00:34:12,007 --> 00:34:16,287
Speaker 3: It sounds really interesting, like you've got a subpar money. Okay,

697
00:34:16,527 --> 00:34:19,367
Speaker 3: so a custom weather journal I think you wouldn't mind it,

698
00:34:19,927 --> 00:34:24,447
Speaker 3: a writer's retreat voucher, oh yeah, luxury skin cassette, Yes,

699
00:34:25,287 --> 00:34:29,927
Speaker 3: literary themed home decoor, or a framed print with a

700
00:34:30,007 --> 00:34:32,767
Speaker 3: quote from one of her favorite authors. It also said,

701
00:34:32,847 --> 00:34:34,367
Speaker 3: rather specifically on a link.

702
00:34:34,327 --> 00:34:36,247
Speaker 2: Or actually, that I would be into that.

703
00:34:36,807 --> 00:34:38,767
Speaker 1: It's funny if she's a basic fifty two year old.

704
00:34:38,927 --> 00:34:40,207
Speaker 1: I had been exactly the same.

705
00:34:40,247 --> 00:34:42,167
Speaker 2: I said what should I buy mere Freedman, and they

706
00:34:42,207 --> 00:34:44,567
Speaker 2: gave me all me as credentials. I didn't really check

707
00:34:44,567 --> 00:34:48,127
Speaker 2: to see if they were right. They say things like,

708
00:34:48,247 --> 00:34:52,087
Speaker 2: because Mia is a busy professional mother, she would enjoy

709
00:34:52,527 --> 00:34:54,767
Speaker 2: a chance to unwind. I was like, this is where

710
00:34:54,847 --> 00:34:57,847
Speaker 2: chat GPT doesn't know mea at all, because he thinks

711
00:34:57,847 --> 00:35:00,807
Speaker 2: she should have a wellness retreat or a spa day.

712
00:35:01,327 --> 00:35:03,367
Speaker 2: And they also think that you should have tickets to

713
00:35:03,367 --> 00:35:05,887
Speaker 2: an event. I was like, no, you really really don't

714
00:35:06,207 --> 00:35:09,007
Speaker 2: need that, or suggested buying you tickets to your own

715
00:35:09,047 --> 00:35:13,607
Speaker 2: s tickets still alive podcast recording, perhaps a Mom and

716
00:35:13,687 --> 00:35:14,567
Speaker 2: mea podcast.

717
00:35:15,087 --> 00:35:18,647
Speaker 1: I'm like, she would have liked that. That would be bad. Guys,

718
00:35:18,767 --> 00:35:20,407
Speaker 1: you should buy me that you might be able to

719
00:35:20,407 --> 00:35:24,327
Speaker 1: get mates rates. That was interesting was my prompts for you, Jesse,

720
00:35:24,407 --> 00:35:26,847
Speaker 1: because I sat there for a really long time. I

721
00:35:26,927 --> 00:35:30,047
Speaker 1: started with gift ideas for my thirty three year old

722
00:35:30,087 --> 00:35:32,447
Speaker 1: female friend, and then I was thinking of what your

723
00:35:32,447 --> 00:35:35,247
Speaker 1: hobbies were? Can I sat there for so much and

724
00:35:35,287 --> 00:35:39,887
Speaker 1: I was like, she doesn't understand fashion. No, So I

725
00:35:39,927 --> 00:35:43,447
Speaker 1: settled on my friend who likes true crime and has

726
00:35:43,487 --> 00:35:45,247
Speaker 1: an eighteen month old daughter called Luna.

727
00:35:46,687 --> 00:35:49,807
Speaker 3: Think about you, Yeah, how old is she? Sixteen months?

728
00:35:50,207 --> 00:35:52,087
Speaker 3: Didn't come up with anything good? What are you getting me?

729
00:35:52,247 --> 00:35:55,887
Speaker 1: A true crime puzzle? And then there's a sub section

730
00:35:56,087 --> 00:35:58,727
Speaker 1: true crime themed candle Who knew there were such things?

731
00:35:58,767 --> 00:36:01,647
Speaker 2: Oh wow, murder candles.

732
00:36:01,167 --> 00:36:06,007
Speaker 1: With fun names like forensic files and Chill Jesus. And

733
00:36:06,047 --> 00:36:07,887
Speaker 1: then there was a section on for you and Luna

734
00:36:07,887 --> 00:36:09,167
Speaker 1: matching pajamas, which I thought was.

735
00:36:09,327 --> 00:36:11,087
Speaker 3: H you got that for us last year you got

736
00:36:11,087 --> 00:36:12,047
Speaker 3: a snatching pajamas.

737
00:36:12,047 --> 00:36:12,567
Speaker 2: Okay.

738
00:36:12,847 --> 00:36:16,527
Speaker 1: Then there's like relaxation and fun for mum, A cozy blanket,

739
00:36:16,607 --> 00:36:19,327
Speaker 1: a soft throw for smuggling up during true crime binge

740
00:36:19,207 --> 00:36:22,287
Speaker 1: s Oh my gosh. Okay, we don't need chutching to

741
00:36:22,327 --> 00:36:23,167
Speaker 1: tell us this stuff.

742
00:36:23,207 --> 00:36:25,527
Speaker 3: I wrote in what do I get my mother in law?

743
00:36:25,727 --> 00:36:25,967
Speaker 4: For me?

744
00:36:27,007 --> 00:36:31,487
Speaker 3: It suggested customized jewelry, A customized calendar with pictures of

745
00:36:31,527 --> 00:36:37,007
Speaker 3: the family. So January is my faith, my faith, but

746
00:36:37,087 --> 00:36:37,807
Speaker 3: this is my favorite.

747
00:36:37,847 --> 00:36:41,047
Speaker 1: There's lots of pitches of Jesse, not lunar, just Jesse.

748
00:36:41,687 --> 00:36:44,367
Speaker 3: This was my favorite. A memory jar. Fill a jar

749
00:36:44,447 --> 00:36:51,287
Speaker 3: with notes about things you appreciate about her, memorable moments. Words,

750
00:36:52,087 --> 00:36:55,087
Speaker 3: you're a bitch, the other time you're a bit.

751
00:36:55,247 --> 00:36:58,287
Speaker 1: That time you came and throughout all my daughter's clothes. Yeah,

752
00:37:00,287 --> 00:37:02,207
Speaker 1: at that time you got a fringe when I was

753
00:37:02,247 --> 00:37:03,847
Speaker 1: in labor to pull focus.

754
00:37:06,367 --> 00:37:09,927
Speaker 2: We have actually got one serious gift suggestion for all

755
00:37:09,927 --> 00:37:11,327
Speaker 2: of you out louders.

756
00:37:10,927 --> 00:37:14,127
Speaker 3: Because chatjpt actually thinks the subscription is a really good gift.

757
00:37:14,367 --> 00:37:15,847
Speaker 3: Did it came up? I think for all of us

758
00:37:16,047 --> 00:37:18,367
Speaker 3: and for Black Friday, Mumma Maya is giving you the

759
00:37:18,407 --> 00:37:21,647
Speaker 3: biggest discount we've ever offered on a subscription. Right now,

760
00:37:21,687 --> 00:37:24,487
Speaker 3: you can get thirty three dollars off a yearly subscription,

761
00:37:24,687 --> 00:37:27,607
Speaker 3: bringing the whole thing down to just thirty six dollars

762
00:37:27,647 --> 00:37:30,327
Speaker 3: for a year. This means full access to all the

763
00:37:30,367 --> 00:37:34,047
Speaker 3: stories the shows, including to Mumma mea out Loud bonus

764
00:37:34,087 --> 00:37:38,047
Speaker 3: segments a week. But this deal is not forever, so

765
00:37:38,087 --> 00:37:41,327
Speaker 3: don't miss out. Use the code out Loud Friday. You

766
00:37:41,367 --> 00:37:42,967
Speaker 3: can head to the link in our show notes for

767
00:37:43,047 --> 00:37:44,007
Speaker 3: all the details.

768
00:37:44,447 --> 00:37:48,327
Speaker 2: We are actually all chat GPT assistance aside putting together

769
00:37:48,367 --> 00:37:50,527
Speaker 2: a Muma Mea Out Loud gift guide, and it is

770
00:37:50,607 --> 00:37:53,807
Speaker 2: going to be in the newsletter, yet another reason to

771
00:37:53,887 --> 00:37:56,527
Speaker 2: sign up if you haven't early access to the tour

772
00:37:56,807 --> 00:37:59,247
Speaker 2: and also a gift guide. There'll be a link in

773
00:37:59,247 --> 00:38:00,247
Speaker 2: the show notes for how to do that.

774
00:38:03,007 --> 00:38:04,327
Speaker 4: Maybe Eura.

775
00:38:06,567 --> 00:38:09,407
Speaker 3: Then coming off sign.

776
00:38:10,047 --> 00:38:12,567
Speaker 1: Hold onto your labbier friends because someone wants to inject

777
00:38:12,607 --> 00:38:15,447
Speaker 1: it with filler stop it, or you can hold onto

778
00:38:15,447 --> 00:38:16,887
Speaker 1: a friends LaBier if you prefer.

779
00:38:17,207 --> 00:38:20,087
Speaker 3: Let's just say is lip filler. Yes, we've been getting

780
00:38:20,087 --> 00:38:21,767
Speaker 3: an alley your other lips kind.

781
00:38:22,087 --> 00:38:25,807
Speaker 1: I learned all about this this week. It's called labbier puffing,

782
00:38:26,527 --> 00:38:28,487
Speaker 1: and it is. I don't want to say it's a

783
00:38:28,487 --> 00:38:30,647
Speaker 1: beauty trend because I don't only give it that power.

784
00:38:30,887 --> 00:38:32,527
Speaker 1: It's a thing that some people are doing.

785
00:38:32,767 --> 00:38:35,327
Speaker 3: It's on the rise. I looked into this because you

786
00:38:35,367 --> 00:38:38,207
Speaker 3: know how I feel about giving women in securities hy securities.

787
00:38:38,207 --> 00:38:41,047
Speaker 3: But then I was looking at it and it originated

788
00:38:41,047 --> 00:38:43,047
Speaker 3: in kind of the early two thousands, and it is

789
00:38:43,207 --> 00:38:45,967
Speaker 3: on the rise. And there's a reason. They think it's why.

790
00:38:45,727 --> 00:38:47,847
Speaker 2: Do we need our labia to be puffy?

791
00:38:47,887 --> 00:38:51,047
Speaker 1: Well, let me first tell you what labbier puff is.

792
00:38:51,807 --> 00:38:54,247
Speaker 1: They call it a non surgical I think that means

793
00:38:54,247 --> 00:38:57,007
Speaker 1: there's no cutting with a scalpel. But it's an injection

794
00:38:57,087 --> 00:39:01,607
Speaker 1: of filler, as you say, into the labbia labia majora.

795
00:39:02,487 --> 00:39:04,727
Speaker 1: And the reason for it is to plump and smooth

796
00:39:05,007 --> 00:39:08,167
Speaker 1: the outer labbia labia majora, to give it a more

797
00:39:08,207 --> 00:39:12,127
Speaker 1: youthful and volution appearance, which is a relief, frankly, because

798
00:39:12,167 --> 00:39:14,087
Speaker 1: my biggest concern in this year of our Lord twenty

799
00:39:14,127 --> 00:39:16,367
Speaker 1: twenty four has been my deflated labia.

800
00:39:16,687 --> 00:39:19,927
Speaker 2: I thought, so just looking a bit sad and saggy

801
00:39:20,127 --> 00:39:21,247
Speaker 2: and sort it out.

802
00:39:21,527 --> 00:39:24,127
Speaker 3: Well, Apparently the reason that this is on the rise

803
00:39:24,407 --> 00:39:27,407
Speaker 3: is because a generation of women got all their hair

804
00:39:27,487 --> 00:39:29,567
Speaker 3: laysered off, and now they are looking in the mirror

805
00:39:29,607 --> 00:39:33,247
Speaker 3: and they can see it. Whereas our grandmothers, our great grandmothers,

806
00:39:33,327 --> 00:39:33,967
Speaker 3: they didn't.

807
00:39:33,767 --> 00:39:36,047
Speaker 1: Know, No, they had a bush. It was a bushy.

808
00:39:36,167 --> 00:39:38,887
Speaker 3: I saw someone describe it as like a deflated sock,

809
00:39:39,087 --> 00:39:41,847
Speaker 3: Like that's what they felt like their labbia.

810
00:39:41,527 --> 00:39:42,367
Speaker 1: Couple of fish fingers.

811
00:39:42,487 --> 00:39:44,887
Speaker 3: Yeah, looked like that. They were just kind of dangling

812
00:39:44,927 --> 00:39:47,767
Speaker 3: in the wind because they were saying that collagen, our

813
00:39:47,807 --> 00:39:50,687
Speaker 3: collagen and our ELASTI didn't whatever, all the things we're

814
00:39:50,687 --> 00:39:53,127
Speaker 3: trying to do with our face to try and keep

815
00:39:53,127 --> 00:39:56,847
Speaker 3: the collagen going, you also lose it from your little labia.

816
00:39:57,047 --> 00:40:00,807
Speaker 3: And to be clear, labbia maturer, because that would be weird.

817
00:40:01,047 --> 00:40:01,887
Speaker 3: We're outer lips.

818
00:40:02,007 --> 00:40:05,447
Speaker 1: I was confused because I thought it was the inner bits. Yeah,

819
00:40:05,487 --> 00:40:07,647
Speaker 1: I know more about this than I probably did a

820
00:40:07,647 --> 00:40:10,247
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, because what land on my desk

821
00:40:10,527 --> 00:40:13,207
Speaker 1: over the last few days is a coffee table book

822
00:40:13,247 --> 00:40:14,927
Speaker 1: called Flip Through My Flaps.

823
00:40:15,127 --> 00:40:18,127
Speaker 3: I love this book. A meeting that we go in

824
00:40:18,207 --> 00:40:19,687
Speaker 3: we just look at it and go look.

825
00:40:19,527 --> 00:40:22,447
Speaker 1: At out loud as Mama Maya is not a normal workplace.

826
00:40:22,967 --> 00:40:26,087
Speaker 1: We do in meetings we flip through a coffee table

827
00:40:26,087 --> 00:40:30,927
Speaker 1: book of close up photos of Volvers by Volver photographer

828
00:40:30,967 --> 00:40:34,007
Speaker 1: Ellie Sedgwick, who intued on No Filter a little while ago.

829
00:40:34,407 --> 00:40:37,007
Speaker 1: When she was growing up, she felt insecure about her

830
00:40:37,367 --> 00:40:41,927
Speaker 1: labya because she was, as she says, an outi because

831
00:40:41,927 --> 00:40:45,447
Speaker 1: there are outis and innies. And her doctor was like,

832
00:40:46,127 --> 00:40:48,607
Speaker 1: let me see, and he's like, there's nothing wrong with you.

833
00:40:48,767 --> 00:40:52,887
Speaker 1: And because she hadn't seen many others. Most straight women

834
00:40:53,127 --> 00:40:57,687
Speaker 1: don't see many other badgeres, she was comparing herself to

835
00:40:58,367 --> 00:41:02,247
Speaker 1: pawn and to the women perhaps that she'd seen in magazines.

836
00:41:02,247 --> 00:41:03,647
Speaker 1: And we did a big story when I was in

837
00:41:03,647 --> 00:41:07,647
Speaker 1: Cosmo about the fact that it was illegal for a

838
00:41:07,727 --> 00:41:12,087
Speaker 1: magazine to publish photos where you could see a protruding

839
00:41:12,207 --> 00:41:15,087
Speaker 1: labbia the inn lips, and so what they had to

840
00:41:15,127 --> 00:41:18,127
Speaker 1: do it was literally called seal to a single crease.

841
00:41:18,327 --> 00:41:20,847
Speaker 1: I had all these conversations with the male editors about

842
00:41:20,887 --> 00:41:22,767
Speaker 1: it because they thought it was terrible that they had

843
00:41:22,767 --> 00:41:25,447
Speaker 1: to do it. It was kind of the early days of retouching,

844
00:41:25,527 --> 00:41:27,287
Speaker 1: you know, otherwise they couldn't be on sale.

845
00:41:27,727 --> 00:41:30,967
Speaker 2: No wonder, we're all so weird. I want to shout

846
00:41:30,967 --> 00:41:33,887
Speaker 2: out the fact that recently I've discovered on some dark

847
00:41:34,007 --> 00:41:36,687
Speaker 2: corner of foxtail. Actually it's not that dark, it's quite bright.

848
00:41:37,047 --> 00:41:40,207
Speaker 2: A show called Naked Attraction. Have you ever seen that?

849
00:41:40,487 --> 00:41:42,327
Speaker 3: I have watched bits and pieces.

850
00:41:42,767 --> 00:41:47,127
Speaker 2: It's a British dating show where you have three four

851
00:41:47,487 --> 00:41:51,927
Speaker 2: naked people. They do all genders, naked people standing behind

852
00:41:51,927 --> 00:41:55,767
Speaker 2: a screen that's get slowly lifted, so it's like, let's

853
00:41:55,887 --> 00:42:00,567
Speaker 2: look at Betty's lower half and it lifts up to

854
00:42:00,647 --> 00:42:03,967
Speaker 2: her waist and then it closes in really tight on

855
00:42:04,047 --> 00:42:06,287
Speaker 2: Betty's vagina, and the person who's.

856
00:42:06,127 --> 00:42:09,207
Speaker 3: Chosen vagina labya for all of.

857
00:42:09,127 --> 00:42:11,127
Speaker 1: It, Yeah, closes up really tight.

858
00:42:11,407 --> 00:42:14,887
Speaker 2: Not actually your correct because not inside her labia revolva.

859
00:42:15,207 --> 00:42:17,407
Speaker 2: So far, they haven't gone with the internal camera that

860
00:42:17,447 --> 00:42:19,927
Speaker 2: could be coming. And then they ask the person who's picking,

861
00:42:19,967 --> 00:42:21,847
Speaker 2: the man or woman who's picking, like do you think

862
00:42:21,847 --> 00:42:22,847
Speaker 2: that's a good looking to think?

863
00:42:22,847 --> 00:42:24,047
Speaker 1: That's oh my god?

864
00:42:24,487 --> 00:42:26,927
Speaker 2: And the person who's picking goes like, yeah, I like

865
00:42:27,007 --> 00:42:29,527
Speaker 2: that one. They do the same with men, like they

866
00:42:29,607 --> 00:42:32,247
Speaker 2: do the same with penises. And so I'm sitting there

867
00:42:32,247 --> 00:42:34,047
Speaker 2: watching this show. I don't know why. When I was

868
00:42:34,047 --> 00:42:35,967
Speaker 2: away with my friends and we found ourselves watching it

869
00:42:36,367 --> 00:42:38,607
Speaker 2: and I started watching it and I was like, this

870
00:42:38,767 --> 00:42:41,247
Speaker 2: is the worst thing I've ever seen on television. And

871
00:42:41,247 --> 00:42:43,167
Speaker 2: then by the end of a couple of episodes, I

872
00:42:43,207 --> 00:42:45,407
Speaker 2: was like, no, this is the best thing I've ever

873
00:42:45,407 --> 00:42:49,167
Speaker 2: seen on television because the body shapes, the different diversity,

874
00:42:49,247 --> 00:42:52,607
Speaker 2: the different boobs, the different labbia, the different penises, the innies,

875
00:42:52,647 --> 00:42:55,767
Speaker 2: the audi's, the people who'd had surgery, the people who hadn't.

876
00:42:56,167 --> 00:42:58,407
Speaker 2: I was like, I've never seen this much variety of

877
00:42:58,527 --> 00:43:00,727
Speaker 2: naked bodies on television.

878
00:43:00,527 --> 00:43:02,487
Speaker 3: And that's the reality, right, Like when you.

879
00:43:02,647 --> 00:43:05,887
Speaker 2: All the labbya look different. Yeah, this puffy vagina business,

880
00:43:05,927 --> 00:43:10,327
Speaker 2: this puffy labbier business, is trying to make us all conform,

881
00:43:10,447 --> 00:43:12,407
Speaker 2: and my vagina will not come hob.

882
00:43:13,167 --> 00:43:13,807
Speaker 3: It will aide.

883
00:43:14,047 --> 00:43:17,807
Speaker 2: I don't think there's anything else to say anything today.

884
00:43:17,887 --> 00:43:19,687
Speaker 2: That was a big show and a very big thank

885
00:43:19,727 --> 00:43:21,167
Speaker 2: you to all of you for being here with us

886
00:43:21,207 --> 00:43:24,127
Speaker 2: out louders and to our team who have to listen

887
00:43:24,167 --> 00:43:24,927
Speaker 2: to us talking.

888
00:43:26,087 --> 00:43:27,847
Speaker 3: Well, if out loud as one a little bit more

889
00:43:27,887 --> 00:43:30,727
Speaker 3: from us. Yesterday, Holly and I went behind me as

890
00:43:30,767 --> 00:43:33,847
Speaker 3: back and we had a private conversation.

891
00:43:34,087 --> 00:43:35,967
Speaker 2: Last time you did that, I cried, Yes, I promise

892
00:43:36,047 --> 00:43:36,767
Speaker 2: you won't cry well.

893
00:43:36,807 --> 00:43:38,367
Speaker 3: One of the questions was whether we bitch about you

894
00:43:38,367 --> 00:43:40,167
Speaker 3: behind your back, and we answered honestly.

895
00:43:39,887 --> 00:43:42,767
Speaker 2: Answered honestly. There were other ones like if we did

896
00:43:42,807 --> 00:43:44,567
Speaker 2: have all the money and resources in the world, would

897
00:43:44,567 --> 00:43:45,727
Speaker 2: we have all the plastic surgery?

898
00:43:45,727 --> 00:43:46,247
Speaker 1: We got off that.

899
00:43:46,487 --> 00:43:48,527
Speaker 2: We got asked why there are some Internet stories that

900
00:43:48,567 --> 00:43:50,567
Speaker 2: we choose not to weigh in on. We talked about that.

901
00:43:50,447 --> 00:43:54,127
Speaker 3: One particular one, and we talked about our content decisions.

902
00:43:54,687 --> 00:43:57,567
Speaker 3: There is a link in our show notes bye bye

903
00:43:57,647 --> 00:44:01,487
Speaker 3: bye shout out to any Mum and me a subscribers listening.

904
00:44:01,767 --> 00:44:03,927
Speaker 3: If you love the show and you want to support us,

905
00:44:04,167 --> 00:44:06,927
Speaker 3: subscribing to MM and MIA is the very best way

906
00:44:07,007 --> 00:44:09,087
Speaker 3: to do so. There's a link in the episode to

907
00:44:09,087 --> 00:44:09,527
Speaker 3: say which

908
00:44:09,607 --> 00:44:13,407
Speaker 5: Actor Baker bot