Speaker 1: The version of John that's getting makeup and getting flowing
Speaker 1: to Atlanta tomorrow for press and then I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: a red couver room and then gone gold coastal on
Speaker 1: a moving in. He's fine, Like the hurt kid is
Speaker 1: the one that needs attention now. Achieving your dreams won't
Speaker 1: give you everything you need. The pot of gold is
Speaker 1: at the end of the rainbow. It won't be everything.
Speaker 1: But still now, I think there's a lot of people
Speaker 1: that are coming up and they're like, I know that
Speaker 1: I just need to burn my hand on that stove.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Seas the Yay Podcast. Busy and happy
Speaker 2: are not the same thing. We too rarely question what
Speaker 2: makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but
Speaker 2: rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than
Speaker 2: one way. So this is the platform to hear and
Speaker 2: explore the stories of those who found lives. They adore
Speaker 2: the good, bad and ugly. The best and worst day
Speaker 2: will bear all the facets of seizing your yay. I'm
Speaker 2: Sarah Davidson or a spoonful of Sarah. A lawyer turned
Speaker 2: funentrepreneurs wapped the suits and heels to co found matcha
Speaker 2: maiden and matcha milk bar. CCA is a series of
Speaker 2: conversations on finding a life you love and exploring the
Speaker 2: self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment along the way. So
Speaker 2: you all already know that I find every single one
Speaker 2: of our guests amazing, and I use a lot of
Speaker 2: superlatives in the intros, in the captions to try and
Speaker 2: convey to you just how wonderful I think they are
Speaker 2: and why. But every now and then a particularly special
Speaker 2: conversation or leave me almost speechless. It doesn't happen very often.
Speaker 2: It's pretty hard to do. You guys know I don't
Speaker 2: love a short story, but this one really bowled me over.
Speaker 2: I recorded this chat at producing studios in Melbourne, who
Speaker 2: shout out to the team have been incredible for our
Speaker 2: return to in person interviews since Matt Leef. But that
Speaker 2: meant we had a producer in the room for the
Speaker 2: whole episode who could validate my reaction afterwards, So I
Speaker 2: knew I wasn't imagining that this one was special. The
Speaker 2: minute John Kim left the room after our conversation, both
Speaker 2: of us just stared at each other, open mouthed and
Speaker 2: in alle at what he had said. It's not that
Speaker 2: I expected him not to be amazing. I knew he
Speaker 2: would be.
Speaker 3: It's just the way that he was amazing kind of
Speaker 3: surprised me, which you'll understand more as you listen. And
Speaker 3: this chat isn't just special because if its timing with
Speaker 3: the brand new Cruel Intention series premiering this week, which
Speaker 3: stars John in one of its lead roles, or because
Speaker 3: he was also just announced last week as part of
Speaker 3: the all star cast of the live action feature Voltron,
Speaker 3: alongside the likes of Rita Aura. I mean, he is
Speaker 3: literally smashing life goals. It's also special because, as you'll hear,
Speaker 3: it came at a pivotal time in his life, with
Speaker 3: a lot of reflection and change.
Speaker 2: Particularly in relation to a lot of the themes that
Speaker 2: are really important on this show about success and happiness
Speaker 2: and fulfillment, all the things that really matter. But also
Speaker 2: because it happens to somehow be the very first podcast
Speaker 2: he's ever done. John has been good friends with Nick
Speaker 2: for many years through our dear mutual friend David Higgs,
Speaker 2: who moved over to la and they've become besties over
Speaker 2: there to share John's story for a very long time,
Speaker 2: covering his incredible rise from the eastern suburbs of Melbourne
Speaker 2: all the way to Hollywood. But I didn't expect the
Speaker 2: honor of catching him at this particularly pivotal moment in time,
Speaker 2: and to be able to share his vulnerability, humility, and
Speaker 2: eloquence to a podcast audience for the very first time.
Speaker 2: I hope you are all as awe struck and inspired
Speaker 2: by him and enjoy this one as much as I did. John, Welcome,
Speaker 2: Welcome to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an honor to be here. What a pleasure.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's an honor for me. I'm so excited.
Speaker 2: I've already spent what like fifteen minutes asking you questions
Speaker 2: because I haven't seen him for ages, but also you've
Speaker 2: got so much going on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's a lot, it's a lot.
Speaker 2: How are you feeling? You were in what three states
Speaker 2: yesterday and like two countries in the next time we
Speaker 2: are out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm getting used to like trying to fall asleep
Speaker 1: on airplanes, which is not comfortable, obviously, but yeah, I
Speaker 1: sort of just gone with it at this point in
Speaker 1: trying to it feels like that that level and Donkey
Speaker 1: Kong where you're on the like the cart and you're
Speaker 1: like making jumps like it's sort of I'm in the
Speaker 1: mining cart, just trying to hold on the sides and
Speaker 1: keep it together. But it's all a privilege and I'm
Speaker 1: super lucky, so not complaining.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, well we are, like you have such
Speaker 2: a special place in my heart. Firstly because my husband
Speaker 2: is like obsessed with you Nick, our dear friend Higgsy mutual. Yes,
Speaker 2: dear dear friend, I.
Speaker 1: Have to mention him. We'll get in trouble for you know,
Speaker 1: like Dave.
Speaker 2: Big shout out, also becoming you dad. Yeah, congrats congrats
Speaker 2: to Higgsy. We should we should have patched him in here.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I met you through the boys and they
Speaker 2: just love you so much. And one of the things
Speaker 2: that was really interesting, actually I asked both of them
Speaker 2: what I should ask you, and both of them said,
Speaker 2: you cannot let him get away with the absurd level
Speaker 2: of humility that you have about your career. So I'm
Speaker 2: not going to let you get away with it. And
Speaker 2: you just mentioned you've been now an actor for seventeen
Speaker 2: years time, so either Korean skincare is doing things for
Speaker 2: you or you started really young.
Speaker 1: Yeah I'm probably not. My raps don't want me aging,
Speaker 1: but I think I'm just staying out of the sun enough.
Speaker 1: I don't know what the Sun's great secret, like skincads. No,
Speaker 1: And then I'm always like people are always like getting
Speaker 1: mad and they're like, what do you do? And I
Speaker 1: was like, ah, Korean, Yeah, like I eat cereal, Like yeah,
Speaker 1: that wouldn't work for me, and I'm like it works
Speaker 1: for me. So I don't know what you want from you.
Speaker 1: This is the research that I've accrued over the last
Speaker 1: couple of years.
Speaker 2: Well, another thing that's been lovely is not just sort
Speaker 2: of being like I think we've only we haven't spent
Speaker 2: that much time together in person, but I hear so
Speaker 2: much about you through the boys because yeah, our beautiful
Speaker 2: little friendship group, but also because you're like my Korean
Speaker 2: culture correspondent, and so is your mom. Because I'm literally like,
Speaker 2: as you all know, I'm adopted. I was born in
Speaker 2: South Korea but was adopted into a very Caucasian family.
Speaker 2: So John and his mom somehow has become our ring
Speaker 2: in for Teddy's one hundred days. I was sort of like,
Speaker 2: does that mean, like tell us what we have to do? Yeah,
Speaker 2: his first birthday's coming up.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, he looked incredible. No, I he looked like
Speaker 1: a little rock star. But I know that for mum.
Speaker 1: Whenever one hundred days comes in Korean culture, I could
Speaker 1: be completely misinforming the audience here, but as I understand it,
Speaker 1: once you hit a hundred days, it's sort of the
Speaker 1: good omen and it's like, okay, they're they're healthy, they're
Speaker 1: kicking on and and so yeah, they celebrate that and
Speaker 1: they make U swear the humbuk and they're they're like
Speaker 1: it's so it's like ridiculously like there's too much going on,
Speaker 1: but they're all the snacks around them, like all they
Speaker 1: cut up apples and like.
Speaker 2: Did you know that the little rice cakes I had
Speaker 2: I didn't like because I'm such a fake Korean, I
Speaker 2: didn't actually have rice cakes on hand, so I used
Speaker 2: I went to coals and got like coconut biscuits and
Speaker 2: they kind of looked like and I just wrote on
Speaker 2: them with a sharpie. Yeah yeah, it's like a resourceful
Speaker 2: rice cakes. They're like yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I'm used
Speaker 2: to prop foods.
Speaker 1: That's great.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, speaking of props, so an active for seventeen years,
Speaker 2: extremely accomplished. I was looking at your IMDb and and
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god, this guy has an AMDB
Speaker 2: that in itself is amazing. But you've had some amazing
Speaker 2: announcements recently, which we'll get to. But one of the
Speaker 2: things that I think happens is people walk into your
Speaker 2: life at this chapter and kind of assume it's so
Speaker 2: easy to assume that it was an overnight success or
Speaker 2: that it was easy to get there, and they forget
Speaker 2: that everyone started somewhere. Everyone's had moments where they were
Speaker 2: like they didn't know who they wanted to be, or
Speaker 2: they did know, but it felt impossible to get there.
Speaker 2: So I like to go back to the very very
Speaker 2: beginning and trace back who you were as a kid,
Speaker 2: what your first dreams were, and then all the like
Speaker 2: diversions and setbacks and dots that have to connect along
Speaker 2: the way to get a Melbourne boy who grew up
Speaker 2: in the verbs, you know, all the way to like yeah,
Speaker 2: to like this huge career in Hollywood. Like that seems implausible,
Speaker 2: but obviously someone has to do it. So take us
Speaker 2: back to childhood. John, Yeah, I had.
Speaker 1: A really unique upbringing in some prospects. Mum raised me
Speaker 1: on her own and she she did a phenomenal job
Speaker 1: of doing so, and it didn't even occur to me
Speaker 1: that I was either going without something or that things
Speaker 1: were a little different for our family. And I think
Speaker 1: at the time it's sort of it didn't really hit
Speaker 1: me until I just I just actually told this story
Speaker 1: for the first time a long time. But I remember
Speaker 1: this like very clear memory in prep where you do
Speaker 1: like the cutouts of the people they're holding hands, you know,
Speaker 1: when you fold them and then you pull them up
Speaker 1: and you unfill them and it's like five six people
Speaker 1: or whatever, and you had to do that for your family,
Speaker 1: and that was like the task before we finished work
Speaker 1: for the day, and so we were doing our family
Speaker 1: and it was just like mine was two, because it
Speaker 1: was a single mum, single child, and so you know,
Speaker 1: I'm like I'm not even thinking, and I'm like color
Speaker 1: color mean I color mum in I'm like all right, cool,
Speaker 1: And I remember just like sticking my head up and
Speaker 1: looking around and I was like, oh, everyone else is
Speaker 1: still working. And then it like it was like this
Speaker 1: very sobering moment for a five year old to be like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're kind of we're different. I mean now I think
Speaker 1: it's much more normalized, but at the time.
Speaker 2: It was a nuclear family.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was a really good primary school, so
Speaker 1: all the families were really well put together and you know,
Speaker 1: well off and well adjusted. And so I remember going
Speaker 1: home that night and being like, Mum, we're missing some
Speaker 1: team members. We don't have a very small gag. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: where's we need this guy and this guy. So let's
Speaker 1: get looking. But no, I remember because of the fact
Speaker 1: that she had worked so relentlessly hard for me. I
Speaker 1: never felt like I went without every time someone got
Speaker 1: whatever the latest jacket that was cool to buy was,
Speaker 1: or the latest video game or whatever, like, she always
Speaker 1: made sure that I was within trending touch of the
Speaker 1: rest of the kids of like whatever the latest gadgets
Speaker 1: or to always were. So she was phenomenal and she
Speaker 1: is my absolute hero and none of this Hollywood stuff
Speaker 1: happens without her. So yeah, I'm really lucky to have her.
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's kind of nice to have hit a
Speaker 1: point in my career now where you know, I can
Speaker 1: look after her and repay her for everything that she
Speaker 1: did for me.
Speaker 2: Oh, John, that's beautiful. Yea. I thought I loved her before,
Speaker 2: but now I'm like even more obsessed with her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. She's said no, no, no, that she's
Speaker 1: a great kaream correspondent to have.
Speaker 2: She's like, she's my favorite career and corresponding you're obviously
Speaker 2: my second favorite.
Speaker 1: Appreciate that. Did you hear what she did with the
Speaker 1: Nick loves the story about like when you started working?
Speaker 1: Did you what was it? Like one of the goals
Speaker 1: of acting essentially, and I was like, I want to
Speaker 1: like look after mom, And Nick goes, so, what'd you
Speaker 1: do for he the first time you got paid? And
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, first time I got a US paycheck.
Speaker 1: It was a first show I did when I was
Speaker 1: like nineteen or twenty and it converted really well to
Speaker 1: Australian dollars. So I remember when mum Woa dropped me
Speaker 1: off to school. All the other mums had like really
Speaker 1: nice you know, rain drovers or Merks or Audi's or whatever,
Speaker 1: and so I was like, Mum had like a two
Speaker 1: thousand and three like sky blue gray Toyota Camri, which
Speaker 1: is like the most Asian car. It's the most like
Speaker 1: it's like the one on the manual and it was
Speaker 1: like not sported stock everything every no bells and whistles,
Speaker 1: nothing about it. The color the most like generic, like
Speaker 1: it feels like they made that color on accident, Like
Speaker 1: that's what it feels like. And so I remember thinking,
Speaker 1: like when I become a famous actor, I'm gonna I'm
Speaker 1: gonna say I'm gonna get her a new car. So
Speaker 1: I call her up and I was like, Mom, I
Speaker 1: just got paid first US job. I'm seeing you this money.
Speaker 1: Don't do the Asian thing and invest it. Don't like
Speaker 1: put it in the business.
Speaker 2: I don't like, yeah, don't be sensible.
Speaker 1: Get something for yourself, buy a car, like, please just
Speaker 1: do that for me. It's something I remember this story.
Speaker 1: It was like it's people like because this sums up
Speaker 1: my mom. So well, yeah, So I send the money.
Speaker 1: I'm rapped and I'm telling all the boys back on
Speaker 1: I'm like, just bought mum a new car twenty years old,
Speaker 1: like I'm killing it, and I'm thinking I thought I
Speaker 1: was a legend very much. Realized later that I'm not
Speaker 1: very special, but at the time I thought it was cool.
Speaker 1: And so I send the money and I'm like two
Speaker 1: months from coming home for Christmas. I was like, Mom,
Speaker 1: don't even tell me what car you get. I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna see it in the driveway and it'll be like
Speaker 1: a like just a moment for me, fastball two months,
Speaker 1: get home, same cars in the driveway, same cars, and
Speaker 1: I was like and I was like, I knew where
Speaker 1: she took the money she ran. She's a crook, she's
Speaker 1: a thief. I want my money back. I'm livid. I
Speaker 1: get back into the house. I've still got my bags
Speaker 1: and I'm like I'm holding suitcases. And she comes out
Speaker 1: and I'm like, mom, like, I want my money back.
Speaker 1: What savings bank accounts did you put it in? And
Speaker 1: I'm like livid. And she she comes out with her
Speaker 1: dishwashing gloves on and she's like, what's wrong. And I
Speaker 1: was like, I told you to get a new car.
Speaker 1: She goes, I did get a new cargo. No, the
Speaker 1: Toylet camera is still in the in the driveway. She's like,
Speaker 1: that's the new car. And I went she bought the
Speaker 1: twenty like fifteen Toyota camera or whatever. It was sky
Speaker 1: blewe gray, same color, not even changing the car. No,
Speaker 1: not the sport edition, not like like no bells and
Speaker 1: whistles again, kid, nothing, just fresh off the commercial, like
Speaker 1: I want that one. And so she just got an
Speaker 1: updated to it. I think the headlights were a little
Speaker 1: more rounded, okay, cute, and maybe maybe their volume was
Speaker 1: a little like higher or yeah.
Speaker 2: Maybe it had like a six ceda instead of two.
Speaker 1: I was just exactly yeah, yeah, yeah. It was so
Speaker 1: I couldn't even be mad because.
Speaker 2: How wholesome is that?
Speaker 1: Because in her mind she was balling out and I
Speaker 1: realized it was all relative. I'm coming from la where
Speaker 1: it's like the nicest cars, you know, and then it
Speaker 1: was like for her to be in the eastern suburbs
Speaker 1: of Melbourne with her current year Toyota Camry.
Speaker 2: Was like she's killing her.
Speaker 1: She thinks she's like she's like got the window down.
Speaker 4: She's got fifty Yeah, she's literally like she thought she
Speaker 4: was like like she it was just it was and
Speaker 4: it's just I think it's that immigrant, blue collar mentality.
Speaker 1: Like for her, that was enough and so that's that
Speaker 1: really hit me in the fields and the herd, and
Speaker 1: I couldn't even be mad because it was just like,
Speaker 1: for you, this is yeah.
Speaker 2: That story alone explains so much about you and I
Speaker 2: think it's so beautiful that you can be And again,
Speaker 2: I think this is something people easily assume now seeing
Speaker 2: the roles that you're in and the life that you
Speaker 2: have in Hollywood, would forget that the beginnings were humble
Speaker 2: and that that's really stuck with you because you do
Speaker 2: have that reminder of like how amazing it is what
Speaker 2: you do every day. But like, yeah, I just love
Speaker 2: this show gives me such an opportunity to hear stories
Speaker 2: like that about your life, and I think that's just
Speaker 2: so beautiful.
Speaker 1: It's different. Yeah, if acting has given me anything, it's
Speaker 1: a completely different camera position to a lot of other
Speaker 1: people's vantage points because I things, the schedule's different, the
Speaker 1: people are different. It's just not It's a much more
Speaker 1: colorful sort of industry, and you get I think every
Speaker 1: workplace has drama or different characters or different personalities, but
Speaker 1: like acting seems to really amplify those traits. And I've
Speaker 1: seen people at the very best, they're very worst, they're
Speaker 1: most generous, they're most selfish, and it's sort of been
Speaker 1: their lightest all their darkest stuff. It's been really cool
Speaker 1: to kind of be in the field for a while
Speaker 1: and not to have lost my sanity.
Speaker 2: I was going to say, I know that you have
Speaker 2: stayed that person that loves that about your mum. You know, like,
Speaker 2: even though you've kind of gone to the heights of
Speaker 2: wealth and fame and success, and like, part of this
Speaker 2: show is reminding everyone that, like, those pinnacles are great
Speaker 2: and important, but not everything, and in fact, probably less
Speaker 2: generating of happiness and fulfillment maybe than like the smaller thing,
Speaker 2: the fact that your mum was just so satisfied and
Speaker 2: stoked with that. It's just so beautiful.
Speaker 1: It's such a granding force. Yeah, and more to your points,
Speaker 1: I thought acting would solve everything. I thought all my problems,
Speaker 1: like I just wanted to be rich and famous because
Speaker 1: I thought I wanted the aspects of both. I wanted
Speaker 1: the money because I want to look after mum, and
Speaker 1: I wanted the fame because it was like maybe a
Speaker 1: substitute or replacement for the love that I felt like
Speaker 1: I didn't get when I was younger. So it's something
Speaker 1: that i'm even even now like sort of actively searching
Speaker 1: for antison. But I it was a really fascinating thing
Speaker 1: to hit this point where I was like, acting is
Speaker 1: not going to solve that for you. It won't give
Speaker 1: you the answers, it won't give you green lights down
Speaker 1: the ticket and be like Okay, cool now, you're sorted,
Speaker 1: and so not to say that I'm rich and famous
Speaker 1: or anything like that. It's more just I've found a
Speaker 1: level of success. I've sustained a Korea and even after
Speaker 1: over one hundred something episodes of US television and working
Speaker 1: across people I never thought i'd ever imagine, like I
Speaker 1: worked with two of the four Jennifers. Arguably there's five Jennifers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So I've got love hewittt and I've got Ghana.
Speaker 2: But I mean, which is pretty amazing. You've got Aniston.
Speaker 1: I'm missing Aniston. You've got Lawrence, I'm missing Lawrence. And
Speaker 1: there's one more. Who's the Lopez? Oh yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: think it will go Lopez next. Yeah, I'll call my
Speaker 1: team after this.
Speaker 2: I was going to say, get your people to call. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and you tea that up.
Speaker 1: Let's go, let's go. It's like Pokemon, We're just.
Speaker 2: Like you've got to catch them. Jennifer's that's the.
Speaker 1: Only reason I started acting.
Speaker 2: Really Okay, well that's really interesting. So the reason you
Speaker 2: started acting I was reading that it actually was quite
Speaker 2: not late, but just interesting that there was such a
Speaker 2: focus for you, like such an ozsy childhood of basketball, tennis, footy,
Speaker 2: and that it was an accidental performing arts like like
Speaker 2: what was it a local action studio? There was a
Speaker 2: free performing class that someone dragged you along to. Yeah,
Speaker 2: in high school.
Speaker 1: So it was in Mount Waverley and was like the RSL.
Speaker 1: It was like by the train station, like just like
Speaker 1: it was. I don't even know. I think it was
Speaker 1: probably an accounting office that they turned into like an
Speaker 1: acting studio. And I went up a friend of mine
Speaker 1: had gone, and then I'd sort of followed suit, thinking like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it should be fun way to kill an afternoon. They
Speaker 1: were giving like first free lesson sort of office, and
Speaker 1: so I went out and then from there it's sort
Speaker 1: of my my drama teacher at school, Miss Carter. Miss
Speaker 1: Carter was like the first person I think to see
Speaker 1: a potential I think, whether you want to call it
Speaker 1: un tapped charisma or whatever, she thought there was something
Speaker 1: there and so she was always even though she would
Speaker 1: always like yell at me in front of the other kids,
Speaker 1: there was like a like a love hate like I
Speaker 1: think she was like, yeah, which I I think I
Speaker 1: had that with a lot of my teachers in school actually,
Speaker 1: but no, they basically as soon as I got started
Speaker 1: through her or I remember something happened where there was
Speaker 1: a casting call in Melbourne for a Steven Spielberg Tom
Speaker 1: Hanks project called The Pacific, which was the band of
Speaker 1: brother spinoff right, and they were shooting in July, like
Speaker 1: in the U yangs like literally like I was like,
Speaker 1: that's like so that's like yeah, yeah, yeah, I could
Speaker 1: get there. Mom could drop me off there in her
Speaker 1: camera that so then I was like okay. So they
Speaker 1: were casting for there was a scene where Joseph Mazzelo
Speaker 1: and Ramie Marlik, who no one knew at the time,
Speaker 1: they come up to a cave and they see like
Speaker 1: a kid come out and he's like, please don't shoot.
Speaker 1: And he's a Japanese Souldioke who's clearly just been forced into,
Speaker 1: you know, into the army. And I get on this bus.
Speaker 1: There's like six of us, none of us really pursuing acting.
Speaker 1: Like one is the casting director's neighbors kid. One was
Speaker 1: someone that like she was at colds shopping was like
Speaker 1: do you want to read for this thing? Like none
Speaker 1: of us will.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So you weren't like scouted from acting schools or anything.
Speaker 2: You just were like I'll put my hand up.
Speaker 1: We were just happy to be there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was glad to be.
Speaker 1: It wasn't even a thing. And and so we get
Speaker 1: to the Geelong and we do this read and they're like, okay,
Speaker 1: so you die. And then Chris and King and Dave
Speaker 1: Laws and Dave Newton. I can't remember his name right now.
Speaker 1: He's a huge casting director. Now apologies, i'ven't been in
Speaker 1: Australia for twelve years. So yeah, I like Hollywood names
Speaker 1: escape me. That sounded so arrogant.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, he did not come across. I don't worry.
Speaker 1: So they they liked me, they cast me. And then
Speaker 1: I was on set two weeks later getting shot by
Speaker 1: these guys and go to school later that day and
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, how is it? And I was like yeah,
Speaker 1: He's like do you see Tom Hanks was like, nah,
Speaker 1: is anyone famous? Like yeah, this is like weird, Like
Speaker 1: it's weird, slow guy, It's really intense. And he goes,
Speaker 1: what's his name, Rami something and this is like two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight. I don't know, and I just remember
Speaker 1: it was like years later. As he blew up, he
Speaker 1: was like, how's it going, dude? That guy is killing
Speaker 1: it like, I think he's gonna win awards, and then
Speaker 1: he won like for mister Robot.
Speaker 2: Yeah that's right. And You're like I was there when
Speaker 2: he was just.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I help people. I discovered him yeah yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: and they launched his career when I was fourteen.
Speaker 2: I was Yeah, it was our scene together.
Speaker 1: But then he won everything obviously for him in Rhapsody,
Speaker 1: and it was really cool to see someone I'd never
Speaker 1: seen someone like start at a level and then just
Speaker 1: completely explode. So from a young kid getting into the industry,
Speaker 1: it was it was so awesome to see. And then
Speaker 1: we ended up working together again on the Little Thing
Speaker 1: with Denzel Washington and Dared Leedo, which the.
Speaker 2: Insane Yeah amazing.
Speaker 1: It feels absurd too, because I'm like, I'm from Chadston
Speaker 1: Shopping Center and like they're from New York or cool places,
Speaker 1: and so that was really cool. And I remember I
Speaker 1: went up to one certain He's like, hey for Army,
Speaker 1: and I was like, hey, Army. We actually worked together
Speaker 1: when I was like fourteen, and he was just as
Speaker 1: intent full and slow and purposeful as I remember, and.
Speaker 2: Like he s thinks that same way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he's not changed. So it's really cool. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think for someone like that who's reached the heights
Speaker 1: of you know, this entire industry, it's like it's cool
Speaker 1: to see. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look
Speaker 1: at it, I no longer desire that, so it's sort
Speaker 1: of it's cool to have sort of witnessed it. But
Speaker 1: I think at the time, like I said, I was
Speaker 1: chasing fame and money and now I now I've completely
Speaker 1: shove it up and realized that my worth is not
Speaker 1: tied to you know, acting, and I think it's maybe
Speaker 1: the fifth or sixth most interesting thing that I consider
Speaker 1: about myself.
Speaker 2: Now, oh my god, well that's the perfect SoundBite for
Speaker 2: this show, because that is absolutely I think what I'm
Speaker 2: at pains to show people that, like your career and
Speaker 2: the amazing things that people achieve is absolutely incredible, but
Speaker 2: not the totality of your personality or your purpose or
Speaker 2: meaning in life. But I think you do have to
Speaker 2: go through that process of sort of setting those goals
Speaker 2: when you're younger, maybe chasing those ideals for a little while,
Speaker 2: and then we all have this big realization. But one
Speaker 2: thing you mentioned about the fact that seeing Rami go
Speaker 2: from such an early stage in his career to this
Speaker 2: like astronomical kind of you know, propulsion onto the scenes.
Speaker 1: That's the ceiling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's also what people see you having done,
Speaker 2: which I think is you obviously, in your humility, won't
Speaker 2: admit necessarily. But watching at Chatty Boy go from that
Speaker 2: to you know, the people that you've worked alongside is
Speaker 2: in some ways implausible. Whether or not you're still chasing
Speaker 2: the success and the fame, the fact that you did
Speaker 2: it is incredibly inspiring. So I think if we self
Speaker 2: select ourselves out of dreams, often because we're like that's impossible,
Speaker 2: like how could I ever get to Hollywood? And at
Speaker 2: the time when you started acting, there weren't a lot
Speaker 2: of roles for Asian actors. Oh no, there still probably
Speaker 2: aren't that many. It's slowly changing. But for anyone who
Speaker 2: is aspiring to do either acting specifically, or something that
Speaker 2: seems impossible, particularly not being born into wealth or being
Speaker 2: born as the grandson of Steven Spielberg or whatever, you
Speaker 2: still got opportunities to position yourself to get these incredible roles.
Speaker 2: And I was actually reading that in your role on Librarians,
Speaker 2: it was like it wasn't nepotism. It wasn't anything like that.
Speaker 2: It was a self tape that you did at home
Speaker 2: with your mom. Yeah, yeah, so you can make it
Speaker 2: of just like what do you think was the special
Speaker 2: source and like how much self doubt along the way
Speaker 2: interacted in like that's impossible. Did you ever think it
Speaker 2: was impossible or did you just go I'm going to
Speaker 2: make it to Hollywood.
Speaker 1: Well, first thing they clarify, so the self that we Mum,
Speaker 1: that's a story that someone else ran. I've never actually
Speaker 1: said that, but really now out there on the internet.
Speaker 1: It was a guy named James Rummel who did the
Speaker 1: tape with me, and he'll be very livid if I
Speaker 1: don't give him Yeah, mum, he'll be running lines for that.
Speaker 1: But his mom has a very thick Korean accent, and
Speaker 1: it wouldn't have the chemistry I think would have been.
Speaker 2: Well, now that k drama is a thing, it would
Speaker 2: actually be like a huge advantage to have her in there.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, she Yeah, I think she might actually
Speaker 1: be ethnic or diverse high now, so they need her.
Speaker 1: But no, I think what I've realized is if you're
Speaker 1: going to go for anything like a dream and you're
Speaker 1: gonna a dream big and gun for it. I think
Speaker 1: I'm living proof that you can get there. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: have to temper your expectations. I remember getting to Los
Speaker 1: Angeles and there was a table of like we had
Speaker 1: like four straight tables at this diner called Barney's of
Speaker 1: like it was like fifty actors and we had every
Speaker 1: varying level of act that like people would just get started.
Speaker 1: People who won logis like all come from Australia, London,
Speaker 1: South Africa, New Zealand, and we're all there, and we're
Speaker 1: all there for everything called pilot season, which no longer exists,
Speaker 1: which is brutal that it was a tough time. It
Speaker 1: was competitive it friendships would get ruined, like it was
Speaker 1: it was sort of you had to sort of find
Speaker 1: safe all butit between all the big personalities and everyone
Speaker 1: was there for their dream and it was such a
Speaker 1: unique thing. And now I think back on that table.
Speaker 1: I thought about this a couple of months ago, and
Speaker 1: I remember having a snapshot of that night and four
Speaker 1: of us are still maybe five, maybe six at most,
Speaker 1: But there was this thing of like only a few
Speaker 1: of you will make it to the next sort of phase,
Speaker 1: like in my case, to just even say you're still
Speaker 1: doing it. What I realized now is it didn't mean
Speaker 1: that the other people that didn't didn't find happiness or
Speaker 1: didn't find fulfillment or didn't what it. Ultimately, what I've
Speaker 1: realized now is is like they actually got started on
Speaker 1: other things quicker than we did. They have meaning and
Speaker 1: purpose in all these other facets of their life and
Speaker 1: then things that really matter, because like I think a
Speaker 1: lot of actors now there's such a common like message,
Speaker 1: especially on podcast or on talks with like, you know,
Speaker 1: achieving your dreams won't give you everything you need. The
Speaker 1: pot of gold is at the end of the rainbow.
Speaker 1: It won't be everything. But still now I think there's
Speaker 1: a lot of people that are coming up and they're like,
Speaker 1: I know that I just need to burn my hand
Speaker 1: on that stove. Still I want to see it for myself.
Speaker 1: And that's totally fine, Yeah, do that, but like you
Speaker 1: got to know, like you'll hit the point that I hit,
Speaker 1: which was you look in the mirror one day and
Speaker 1: you're like, man, I just like the sacrifices you made.
Speaker 1: I think Joe Keery talks about it in that Chicago
Speaker 1: song when I'm Back in Chicago and it's this idea
Speaker 1: that like, you don't see what you're trading off. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't see what you're sacrificing. And now, for the
Speaker 1: first time in my life, I'm like, priorities like being
Speaker 1: a better son, being a better friend, being a better uncle, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's all now filtered in in a way that's like,
Speaker 1: it's the craziest thing because the work success is like
Speaker 1: coming in buckets, but it means maybe the least that
Speaker 1: it's ever meant to me. So it's it's a unique
Speaker 1: time for me right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, it's a really and it's a it's
Speaker 2: a I feel so lucky to catch you at this
Speaker 2: moment because that pivotal shift in your priorities and focus
Speaker 2: is what this show is all about. But I also
Speaker 2: do think you do have to burn your hand on
Speaker 2: the stove and on the way there. There is also
Speaker 2: the fact that you do have to be willing to
Speaker 2: sacrifice all those things for the short amount of time,
Speaker 2: maybe only even in the short term, but even business.
Speaker 2: It's sort of like people are like, you know, how
Speaker 2: do you have work life balance, And I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: the first three years you don't, because that's the bit.
Speaker 1: Where grind, you grind culture.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's not something you can sustain or even
Speaker 2: that you want forever. But in that bit where you
Speaker 2: went from, you know, a Tom Hanks and a Steven
Speaker 2: Spielberg movie is an incredible place to start. It was
Speaker 2: a big set, which is like amazing. But then you
Speaker 2: got an amazing role on Neighbors, which you had for
Speaker 2: quite a while. But you were still at school, like
Speaker 2: you were juggling that with studies and at a pivotal
Speaker 2: time of your life. You know, was there ever pressure
Speaker 2: a to sort of do something conventional and particularly from
Speaker 2: an immigrant family, did you have pressure to I think
Speaker 2: a lot of people are swayed away from creative pursuits
Speaker 2: because they seem so implausible that you could make a
Speaker 2: career out of it, right and B when you were
Speaker 2: so focused on the success and the fame and everything,
Speaker 2: how did you get there? Like for anyone who wants
Speaker 2: to be an actor and who does still want those
Speaker 2: incredible roles, how did you get onto those US sets?
Speaker 2: How did you decide to move from Australia over there?
Speaker 2: Do pilot season? Face the rejection, the failure, the I'm
Speaker 2: sure like questioning am I good enough? Am I going
Speaker 2: to get these roles. I got to make money. I'm broke,
Speaker 2: like I'm meeting tore minute Nordics, all of that stuff,
Speaker 2: like what keeps you going? And how do you how
Speaker 2: did you get to where you are?
Speaker 1: So to answer the first question, Mum was so good
Speaker 1: to me. She never pressured me at or she was
Speaker 1: I think she she wanted me to be a lawyer
Speaker 1: or a doctor or a lot of the typical things, but
Speaker 1: she never really like I think for her after everything
Speaker 1: sort of that we've been through as a family unit,
Speaker 1: she just wanted me to be happy and healthy. Oh
Speaker 1: I love it, And that was sort of I remember,
Speaker 1: like after the Steven Spielberg think being like I'm going
Speaker 1: to be on Neighbors and she's like okay, He's like,
Speaker 1: because that's what you got to do. You've got to
Speaker 1: go on neighbors and then you go to America and
Speaker 1: then you hit it big. It's like easy two plus
Speaker 1: two his four formula.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So then I got yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: very Asian to me. Well she'll be proud now, but no.
Speaker 1: I So I get an agent and then I read
Speaker 1: for a part on Neighbors, which I was like I'm
Speaker 1: manifesting this like I was manifesting before. Manifesting was even
Speaker 1: too manifesting male and manifesting of my two claims. So
Speaker 1: then I go in to read for incredible casting director
Speaker 1: names Lou Mitchell. I was fifteen at the time. She
Speaker 1: was casting Neighbors, and I read for a part called Dale.
Speaker 2: McGregor, I've got that down down with Gregor, which I
Speaker 2: was like, that is so Asian.
Speaker 1: Ridiculous, but I understand it. You know, there's, you know,
Speaker 1: obviously so many reasons why someone would have a westernized.
Speaker 2: Halloway exactly super Korean.
Speaker 1: Sample case and point. And so I went in and
Speaker 1: I think it was like the guy at the time
Speaker 1: was like Declan. He was like the hot young guy
Speaker 1: on Neighbors, and I was like, I'd like bully him
Speaker 1: at lunchtime, which I physically I would have been half
Speaker 1: his size, and I've never bullied anyone, so I was
Speaker 1: sort of just like, how do you bully someone? Like?
Speaker 1: It wasn't like and so I remember the line was like, hey, Declan,
Speaker 1: nice pants and then like you know, and then just
Speaker 1: like giving him stick. But she saw something in me.
Speaker 1: She cast me. So I did that for two years
Speaker 1: and I would say, the pressure you talked about to
Speaker 1: get a conventional job, it didn't really come from my mum.
Speaker 1: I started feeling that pressure when I thought, Oh, the
Speaker 1: kids at school will love me now because I'm on neighbors.
Speaker 1: So that was this really sort of monumental moment for
Speaker 1: me growing up that like I was like, Oh, the
Speaker 1: kids in school will think I'm worthy of attention. I'll
Speaker 1: get invited to birthdays. Now, I'll get to go to
Speaker 1: all these things. Like I'm like, I thought, like, this
Speaker 1: is going to be the greatest thing ever. I'm on neighbors.
Speaker 1: Life is sweet. And it was a sort of a
Speaker 1: watered down version of realizing now what I'm realizing, which is, oh,
Speaker 1: it doesn't solve everything. And so I would say, and
Speaker 1: I don't know, I still to this day wrestle with
Speaker 1: Australia's I don't know if it's an Australian thing or
Speaker 1: if it's maybe specific to my school, but I think
Speaker 1: getting on neighbors at in high school it actually made
Speaker 1: people resisted my desperate advances for love more like I
Speaker 1: wanted the kids to like me. So I did this thing,
Speaker 1: and it was like showing them, like, look at this
Speaker 1: and then it was almost like the opposite effect, like yeah, yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 2: I think our tall poppy culture is not great.
Speaker 1: We heard at the time and even now when I
Speaker 1: explain to Americans like wait, you're on a show with
Speaker 1: literally like at six six thirty pm the night before
Speaker 1: and Channel ten like bullying literally bullying Margot Robbie or
Speaker 1: bullying like you know, yeah, the hem Z whoever, whoever
Speaker 1: it was at the time, and just being a little heard,
Speaker 1: and then going to school the next day putting on
Speaker 1: my uniform and then like the most you would get
Speaker 1: is like, oh, can you get us her number? And
Speaker 1: then it's like like oh, And then you would hear
Speaker 1: like the little whispers, like you walk past into the canteen,
Speaker 1: you'd hear like I thinks he's Brad Pitt and you're like,
Speaker 1: oh my, You're like I just want you guys to
Speaker 1: like me, like and so I that was what I
Speaker 1: operated out of my entire probably the first decade of
Speaker 1: my career. It was just I was a hurt kid
Speaker 1: and I wanted to reapprove. And I don't know if
Speaker 1: it was Australia because I will say, like the kids
Speaker 1: in the level above and the kids in the level
Speaker 1: below were randomly much more supportive, and the kids at
Speaker 1: the high school down the.
Speaker 2: Road, yeah, just not your immediate peers.
Speaker 1: It was this weird thing, and I think I was annoying.
Speaker 1: I think I was too grabby, Like I just wanted
Speaker 1: them to think something of me and give me, assigned
Speaker 1: me a value and say I deserve to be invited
Speaker 1: to the party. And so having to have gone through
Speaker 1: all that now I realized, like, ugh, even even as
Speaker 1: the career is doing its thing, I just the hurt
Speaker 1: kid is the one that needs attention now, the version
Speaker 1: of John that's getting make up and getting flown to
Speaker 1: Atlanta tomorrow for press and then I'm gonna be a
Speaker 1: red cup room and then gone go coastal on the
Speaker 1: move and get fitted out, like it's that's He's fine.
Speaker 1: Like the person that I need to deal with and uh,
Speaker 1: and that I'm attending to now is like, oh, man,
Speaker 1: like you you just wanted, like I don't know, you
Speaker 1: wanted to be loved and which is so cliche, but yeah,
Speaker 1: my god, So that was that's the guy. You know,
Speaker 1: he's crying right now and I want to I want
Speaker 1: to let him know everything is going to be fine,
Speaker 1: you know, oh my.
Speaker 2: God, you're really doing the work right now, You're going
Speaker 2: through it literally like a sense. I mean, I appreciate
Speaker 2: the vulnerability so much because again, like I think people
Speaker 2: would expect that what you come on to a podcast
Speaker 2: like this to talk about is like how glitzy is Hollywood,
Speaker 2: how amazing is it all? And it's actually like sure
Speaker 2: in a career sense, which is one facet of this
Speaker 2: big pie chart of my life. Yeah, it's amazing, and
Speaker 2: yes I had those goals as a young kid, but
Speaker 2: actually the bigger reflections are like my inner worth, my family,
Speaker 2: my joy, the fact that it did take you away
Speaker 2: from your mum, you know, and you did move to
Speaker 2: the States, and it did cost you, you know a
Speaker 2: lot of things that now mean a lot to you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you definitely don't see it at the time, but yeah, it's.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're young to be having already. This is
Speaker 2: a cycle that I think a lot of people don't
Speaker 2: hit this until like their thirties, forties and fifties, when
Speaker 2: they have chased that success for even longer. I mean,
Speaker 2: you had it at twenty, and a lot of people
Speaker 2: don't get the ability to buy their parents' cars until
Speaker 2: a lot later, so you've done this like speed version
Speaker 2: of the success cycle.
Speaker 1: It went quick. Yeah, the career went sort of gradually
Speaker 1: went up altitude, like in a very linear and slow way.
Speaker 1: But the realizations or like the lifestyle, like I was
Speaker 1: always like going back to hotel rooms. I couldn't sign
Speaker 1: a least anyway, cause I didn't where I was going
Speaker 1: to be in two months. Like it was. It was
Speaker 1: a sort of Hitchhiker's Guide to Los Angeles. But I
Speaker 1: sort of hit a point where I was like, you
Speaker 1: know what, We're just going to go all all out
Speaker 1: and so yeah, to answer your second question, it was
Speaker 1: just all about like blind faith, like I didn't know.
Speaker 1: I didn't there was no guarantee, there was nothing to
Speaker 1: say that I was going to succeed in this industry,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to go until the wheels fell off.
Speaker 1: Like I thought, worst case scenario, I'll be twenty five,
Speaker 1: maybe in debt, maybe with some emotional scarring, but like
Speaker 1: Mabe trauma, maybe some trauma, yeah, maybe someone telling me
Speaker 1: my face is unbearable. But like you know, at the time,
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, you're twenty two, twenty three, you're in
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, You're just thinking like we're just going for it.
Speaker 1: And I think for anyone who's ever gone for anything
Speaker 1: in their life, it's so commendable because it's a scary
Speaker 1: thing and it's a very brave thing to do. Even
Speaker 1: just to take the first step is so admirable and
Speaker 1: in a way, and so for me to still be
Speaker 1: on the path, it's sort of this funny thing of
Speaker 1: now like, oh, actually, regardless of all of the success
Speaker 1: or maybe lack of success, who knows, maybe my phone
Speaker 1: stops ringing tomorrow, but no doubt it, but you know.
Speaker 2: We'll talk about it. Your phone has rung already, which
Speaker 2: is soer exciting, so that's not going away.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought it was a prank call.
Speaker 2: But well, I mean that's really interesting because I think
Speaker 2: that is one of the kind of you know, there's
Speaker 2: no secret source, but if there was to be a
Speaker 2: secret source that you had to pick, it's the fact
Speaker 2: that the wording that you used of worse case scenario.
Speaker 2: I think the fact that you just said worst case
Speaker 2: it's not that bad, so you just go for it blindly,
Speaker 2: I think that's the key. It's more when you let
Speaker 2: all the possible negatives, all the worst case scenarios like
Speaker 2: the failure. It's when you get overcome by that worst
Speaker 2: case scenario rather than just going it's not that bad,
Speaker 2: like I'll just do it. I'll still be in my
Speaker 2: twenties like it's fine. I think that's the beautiful liberating
Speaker 2: thing to realize it's not that bad, like I can
Speaker 2: find something else, but why not just give it a go?
Speaker 2: And obviously giving it a go has gone incredibly well
Speaker 2: for you.
Speaker 1: It's going going. I mean it's now I'm trying to
Speaker 1: get it to stop a little bit. Then like the
Speaker 1: snowballs down the hill and I'm like, oh nah at
Speaker 1: the hill.
Speaker 2: So one thing that I really want to talk to
Speaker 2: you about because you're in a really unique position of
Speaker 2: having been in an industry for seventeen years for the
Speaker 2: not just Asian Australians or Asian Americans, but any people
Speaker 2: of color, but particularly I think for Asian actors and
Speaker 2: actresses in this You've been in it in a time
Speaker 2: where you've gone from being the only non set if any,
Speaker 2: and very often cast Like you mentioned you're a Japanese soldier.
Speaker 2: I don't think have you ever been cast as a
Speaker 2: Korean like actually.
Speaker 1: Ever once or twice yeah, okay, once or twice, like.
Speaker 2: A seventeen year career to now, and like being cast
Speaker 2: on things like which is so exciting for me that
Speaker 2: you're on Hawaii five O. I have watched that entire thing, Like,
Speaker 2: did Nick tell you we went back to the very beginning? No,
Speaker 2: we went back to episode one. Yeah, we've watched all
Speaker 2: ten seasons, including your episode.
Speaker 1: That's hilarious.
Speaker 2: But again it's like often in these specific roles that
Speaker 2: were like reserved for Asian actors, not just roles for
Speaker 2: all actors, and then you happen to be Asian, Whereas
Speaker 2: I feel like that's been changing a lot recently, and
Speaker 2: you've been on a press junket for a role in
Speaker 2: an amazing production which hasn't stereotypically been like the character
Speaker 2: you are wasn't an Asian character. It was just a
Speaker 2: character cruel intentions, guys, and you happen to be an
Speaker 2: Asian actor. So talk to us about how that's changed
Speaker 2: for you over the last seventeen years from when you
Speaker 2: started to now.
Speaker 1: When I started and then this was my navity. Probably
Speaker 1: I didn't realize Asian people or Hispanic people, or I
Speaker 1: didn't realize people of color had their role to play
Speaker 1: around the default, which was the Caucasian character. I had
Speaker 1: no idea, and it wasn't until it was pointed out
Speaker 1: to me, this idea of like, hey, like like I
Speaker 1: would read for a part. And then a friend of
Speaker 1: mine like Lincoln unis one of the best Link.
Speaker 2: He's been on these guys. I'll put the episode link
Speaker 2: Yeah in the show.
Speaker 1: I love Link and he obviously the most open hearted,
Speaker 1: genuine human alive. And he would be like, hey, John,
Speaker 1: there's a part twenty romantic lover boy living up the street.
Speaker 1: And he'd be like, oh, you should read for this,
Speaker 1: and I'd be like, oh, I'm not going. They won't
Speaker 1: read me. And it was something that occurred to me.
Speaker 1: I was like, wait, they don't read me ever for
Speaker 1: like that the romantic No, I'm the like weird guy
Speaker 1: in the bushes, or I'm the funny friend. I'm like
Speaker 1: a bit of a strange vibe like I'm not then't
Speaker 1: never let me read for that like And it was
Speaker 1: like this moment of realization, like hang on a minute.
Speaker 1: And so I had a call with my manager, who
Speaker 1: have been with forever and he was like, John, I
Speaker 1: don't care. I don't care like like it had been
Speaker 1: pointed out to me that Asian men specifically, and that's
Speaker 1: what I can speak through that have very different battle
Speaker 1: than Asian women. Asian women, I guess their role as
Speaker 1: far as being around the default was this over hyper
Speaker 1: sexualization of.
Speaker 2: The exotic woman.
Speaker 1: They would have like a red streak in their hair,
Speaker 1: and they were a little dangerous and a little like
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Could you use a weapon, could use a weapon, could
Speaker 2: kill you? But yes, yes, it was like silent assassine like.
Speaker 1: That was there. That was their stick that Hollywood, these
Speaker 1: like dudes owning these studios. That was like, that's what
Speaker 1: they are now. For the Asian men, it was we
Speaker 1: don't want to see them kissing. Yeah, we don't want
Speaker 1: see them kissing a girl, Like they don't kiss they're
Speaker 1: not romantic people, like that's why they're women, you know.
Speaker 1: Won us like it was this like weird like underlying
Speaker 1: sort of color to the all the themes and motifs
Speaker 1: were doing it, and so I didn't care. And I
Speaker 1: think maybe if i'd known at the time, i'd been aware,
Speaker 1: I would have been more maybe hesitant, But at the time,
Speaker 1: I was just like, oh, okay, well that's just all
Speaker 1: my expectations have been checked at the door anyway. So
Speaker 1: for Asian men, it sort of became this over every
Speaker 1: sort of every half decade, there was a slight improvement
Speaker 1: half decade, every half dat every half decade it was
Speaker 1: like hellow movie, Yeah, like okay, we can see them
Speaker 1: holding hands with a girl now yeah, yeah, but not
Speaker 1: first base, like we don't want to get to that's
Speaker 1: that's a little no no, no, no, sheek kisses only yeah, and.
Speaker 2: So, which is very drama now there, now that goes well.
Speaker 1: Now, now, the hyper romanticism of that, it's it's it's
Speaker 1: wonderful to see, but it was just it's it was
Speaker 1: kind of crazy, and I think it fed into I
Speaker 1: never really brought into this idea that I was doing
Speaker 1: something special. I never bought into this idea that like
Speaker 1: film and television is this super impactful second education for
Speaker 1: people during their formative years. And so when I grew
Speaker 1: up in Australia and it was like, oh, like you know, offhandedly,
Speaker 1: you know, it's nothing that I haven't and it sort
Speaker 1: of figured out now, But it was sort of at
Speaker 1: the time like, oh, Asian men weren't really desirable. Oh,
Speaker 1: because when you got a TV. They're not really shown
Speaker 1: in a way that's very oh okay, Like I didn't
Speaker 1: make that connection, so I didn't really know. And so
Speaker 1: now it's like really fascinating for someone if someone thinks
Speaker 1: I'm like handsome. It's still a shock because during the
Speaker 1: most formative parts of my life, this long term answer
Speaker 1: locked in of like Asian men.
Speaker 2: Aren't attractive and so desirable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I remember I dated this beautiful girl
Speaker 1: when I was like twenty one or twenty two, and
Speaker 1: like we got back in touch like two years later,
Speaker 1: and she was like, how are you going. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: She's like, how's it going with the ladies. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'd be lucky to get a date. And she's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're still doing the well was me thing like that
Speaker 1: stick still works for you? Like, and I don't think
Speaker 1: she realized that wasn't a stick for me. That was
Speaker 1: a that was me actually believing that when she'd be like,
Speaker 1: you have a nice smile, I would just not. It's
Speaker 1: just didn't I didn't. Yeah, So it's been a real
Speaker 1: like detangling process of like my child and my my
Speaker 1: adolescence and and and and now obviously I've had incredible
Speaker 1: female co stars, romantic co stars that gave me the
Speaker 1: space to sort of find my feet and and start
Speaker 1: thinking myself a little bit as like, Okay, I'm not
Speaker 1: like a full catch, but I'm like, I'm okay, I'm
Speaker 1: not like like I'm like Cat. I'm like a sense
Speaker 1: of humor, a decent personality. But yeah, I really had
Speaker 1: to sort of see, I've seen the industry change, and
Speaker 1: the ultimate conclusion I've I've realized is there's always going
Speaker 1: to be things that are unfair and and and things
Speaker 1: that really just ultimately need to change. But if I
Speaker 1: had known that ahead of time, I might not have
Speaker 1: pursued acting. So to sort of blindly just pursue it
Speaker 1: was sort of what got me ultimately here. And now,
Speaker 1: like I realized, like a lot of roles I read
Speaker 1: now are like, hey, he like goes on a date
Speaker 1: with the girl, and I'm like, wow, this is like
Speaker 1: like teenage me would be like no way.
Speaker 2: I kind of think that aavity and a lot of
Speaker 2: scenarios is actually better that you don't go into it
Speaker 2: knowing the full risks, because it's that blissful ignorance is
Speaker 2: kind of amazing. But I also think that for an
Speaker 2: industry that is often considered quite not vacuous, but I
Speaker 2: think a lot of people think that they can act
Speaker 2: like that we all could act like if we tried
Speaker 2: hard enough, we could all do acting. It's just like,
Speaker 2: not necessarily, I don't think people understand. It can seem
Speaker 2: really superficial, it can seem really surface level. But when
Speaker 2: you think about the impact of that industry just on
Speaker 2: your life has in your reflection of how you see yourself,
Speaker 2: even from someone who knows from the inside how convoluted
Speaker 2: it is, the fact that you didn't think necessarily that
Speaker 2: you were a romantic, desirable person because of what you
Speaker 2: saw in the media around you. It's actually it's such
Speaker 2: a powerful industry, like what you see around you in TV, movies,
Speaker 2: even advertising visibility. Yeah, it reflects the world in your
Speaker 2: brain in a way that you don't even realize that
Speaker 2: you're not considering yourself like your dating life because of
Speaker 2: the way that you're being cast, which is fascinating and
Speaker 2: I think a really interesting reflection of how important it
Speaker 2: is that you have been cast increasingly in roles that
Speaker 2: aren't just reserved for the Asian guy, and that I
Speaker 2: mean talk to us about cruel intentions, like that's a
Speaker 2: super like tell us about your role and how that's
Speaker 2: that's changed.
Speaker 1: It's cool. Yeah, it was sort of just an open call.
Speaker 1: I don't think they had a specific person of color
Speaker 1: in mind, or they had an idea. I think they
Speaker 1: just wanted people to read the role originated was originated
Speaker 1: in the film at least by Joshua Jackson, who is
Speaker 1: he's the best, Like he's one of those handsome charismatic
Speaker 1: I think he's I respect his career so much, and
Speaker 1: I think it was sort of cool to especially I
Speaker 1: grew up a massive Mighty Ducks fan. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: To like be like to like Charlie Conway was.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I'm playing a part of that
Speaker 1: that actor did and it was a cool like it
Speaker 1: was a real feather in my cap. I wore that
Speaker 1: like a badge because it was like it was cool
Speaker 1: because I just know that ten years ago it wouldn't
Speaker 1: have happened. Yeah, and so now it's like it's wonderful
Speaker 1: and I value it. I'm not ungrateful, but I'm also,
Speaker 1: like I mentioned, it's regardless, I would have found something else.
Speaker 1: So we found my way, Like, you know, I think
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, when you realize everything's
Speaker 1: going to be okay, you're just like, okay, cool. So
Speaker 1: it's a great opportunity. It's a great part. I didn't
Speaker 1: even know what I'm allowed to say about it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, yeah, that's true that it's amazing.
Speaker 1: Yeah's trouble. I think I can say that, and I
Speaker 1: think the show will find its audience and yeah, I
Speaker 1: think it comes out. I don't know where the time
Speaker 1: of recording. It's only a couple weeks away.
Speaker 2: So oh, I got We watched the trailer last night.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, there's my friend. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: You should have seen Nick. He absolutely lost well the next
Speaker 2: announce on his one that he absolutely lost his bananas about. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but before we moved to that, and that will be
Speaker 2: potentially time sensitive, I would be REMISSI me not to ask,
Speaker 2: and I know that, Like, I don't want to portray
Speaker 2: that acting is your own type personality. But we are
Speaker 2: so lucky to have your time. You do have so
Speaker 2: much behind the scenes. Like one of the things I
Speaker 2: love doing is shedding a light on stuff that the
Speaker 2: average person just wouldn't get to know, right, So, like,
Speaker 2: who's the coolest person you've met?
Speaker 1: Okay, what are.
Speaker 2: Some of like the random nitty gritty stuff about like
Speaker 2: being in a trailer on set or stuff that just
Speaker 2: from the outside you would have no idea, like actors' tricks,
Speaker 2: like how do you cry on demand? Like those kind
Speaker 2: of things that we just.
Speaker 1: Think industry secrets.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the industry secrets that are and especially the shit ones,
Speaker 2: you know, like the ones that are like nitty gritty
Speaker 2: or not glamorous.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And there's a Denzel story as well. I want you
Speaker 2: to tell there's oh yeah, yeah, yeah, which I've heard
Speaker 2: from like four different people.
Speaker 1: It's the first thing everyone asks is what was it
Speaker 1: like when in Denzel? And yeah, I mean it was
Speaker 1: an honor, it was a privilege. But I had a
Speaker 1: friend of ours had worked with him previously, and his
Speaker 1: advice was, when you see him on set, just you know, respectful,
Speaker 1: treat him like anybody else. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I was like, it's dense. You treat him like
Speaker 1: anybody else. Hey, that's your living god, he's And so
Speaker 1: I remember showing up to set and we sort of
Speaker 1: went through the works and see RAMI have a reunion
Speaker 1: with him after however many years, and then okay, where's
Speaker 1: the big dog? And he goes, oh, any points and
Speaker 1: he's there. He's like, there's a chair. He's sitting by himself,
Speaker 1: and he's got like one leg over the other, and
Speaker 1: he's like he just looks so cool. He looks so
Speaker 1: like he's like and I'm like, okay, well what do
Speaker 1: I do with this? You know, it's his movie. I'm
Speaker 1: going to go introduce myself and pay respect, and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be here for a week or two. So it
Speaker 1: was substantial enough like reason to go over. And I
Speaker 1: remember going over and and he's sitting there. He's just
Speaker 1: sort of and it looks really cool. Yeah. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm so nervous. I think I had my
Speaker 1: hand out like maybe fifty meters away, like it was
Speaker 1: like like walking like this, like just like I you know,
Speaker 1: I'm ready, so nervous, and I'm like I'm shaken, really
Speaker 1: like I'm sorry. And in the back of my head,
Speaker 1: I think I'm like everyone else on set is watching
Speaker 1: this because he's such a presence, and and I go
Speaker 1: up to him and I'm I'm like, mister Denzel Washington sir,
Speaker 1: my name's John, and I'm really excited to work with you. Yes, smooth, Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it was, it was, it was. He was really
Speaker 1: gracious about it. He was like a welcome young man.
Speaker 1: And he he let me hang for a second because
Speaker 1: I think he was processing what I just said, also
Speaker 1: like and what you were doing, Stach, is this going
Speaker 1: on our movie? Like is he like? And so in
Speaker 1: that second I thought, I thought, oh, no, he's gonna
Speaker 1: like is he gonna And and then I was just
Speaker 1: thinking like maybe I walked past him and pretend like
Speaker 1: it was going to someone else, But he was really
Speaker 1: he was really sweet about it. And and yeah, that's
Speaker 1: probably one moment I've been like sweaty like about like fangirling.
Speaker 1: So yeah, oh my god, that was that one.
Speaker 2: I would no one in the world could not fangirl
Speaker 2: every day.
Speaker 1: She was the best. He's the best. But then as
Speaker 1: far as industry secrets, it's kind of like in Harry Potter,
Speaker 1: you know that they talk about the room of requirement,
Speaker 1: like the door is wherever you can find it. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: like for people like like you mentioned like crying, like
Speaker 1: for a lot of people, it's I have to go
Speaker 1: away put on music, or I can just you know,
Speaker 1: look at a spot and I can start getting a
Speaker 1: little deary about it. And then there's this one girl
Speaker 1: I worked with who she can on cue cry on
Speaker 1: either eye, so if the camera's on this side, she
Speaker 1: can go right side, or the cameras on this touch
Speaker 1: you can go left side. And she can control the
Speaker 1: tempo of out which the tears shut up, so she
Speaker 1: can time it like, let's say, like the very last
Speaker 1: line of the scenes like I love You, she can
Speaker 1: weld up, well it up, and then she can literally
Speaker 1: hit it on like I love You single tear no,
Speaker 1: and I'm convinced she can get it to go back
Speaker 1: up at this point like I'm giving she yeah, and
Speaker 1: I'm like oh, And then sometimes you just have to
Speaker 1: pay respect to people that you're like, I will never
Speaker 1: be able to do that. But oh that was really
Speaker 1: that was crazy.
Speaker 2: Okay, So you mentioned the Denzel bit you thought everyone
Speaker 2: was watching you when you're on a big set, and
Speaker 2: I mean the fact that your first set was such
Speaker 2: a big one is probably good in terms of it
Speaker 2: not being so foreign when you actually were in a
Speaker 2: main role. Do you forget, like I always wonder when
Speaker 2: you're watching like Friends, for example, and it looks like
Speaker 2: you're totally in the zone, as if they are really
Speaker 2: who they are. But then sometimes you watch the behind
Speaker 2: the scenes and you're like, oh my god, live audience,
Speaker 2: Like how could they block that out and focus? Do
Speaker 2: you not see the fifty people who are watching it?
Speaker 2: Or do you just get used to it?
Speaker 1: It's like the compartmentalization is crazy, and it act his
Speaker 1: brain because you're conscious of you get to a point
Speaker 1: where you learn each skill and then you're able to
Speaker 1: galvanize them into this very like effortless way. So like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we talked about like romantic scenes and everyone's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't know how I could do that without like
Speaker 1: getting feelings or being awkward or getting a bonut, whatever
Speaker 1: your reaction to it is.
Speaker 2: You know, I wasn't going to go there, like genuinely.
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's people physically touching each other. And
Speaker 1: so thankfully now we have intimacy coordinators and things like
Speaker 1: that to kind of oversee everything. That was sort of
Speaker 1: a new introduction. But the biggest thing was I've realized
Speaker 1: is like when you're acting, your your brain is so
Speaker 1: focused on where the light that like the light they're
Speaker 1: trying to hit you with where the camera is, where
Speaker 1: the boom mic is am I saying it at a
Speaker 1: level that am I staying in frame? Am I on
Speaker 1: the right? Like the prop that I need to show
Speaker 1: is that it's coming up into frame? Is it high enough?
Speaker 1: Like it's so technical, so the people that are able
Speaker 1: to make it look as like untechnical as possible, at
Speaker 1: least technical as possible. That's the true art form in
Speaker 1: like hitting your mark, turning knowing, Okay, this person's a
Speaker 1: little off their mark, and so I'm behind the camera now,
Speaker 1: so I need to actually give them that it just
Speaker 1: on the fly, say the line, hit your light and
Speaker 1: look naturally, you've a good read, look natural, and then
Speaker 1: give you your co star enough. It's like that's the
Speaker 1: art of film and telvision to me now, it's insane. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then there's some people who are like, I'm an artist,
Speaker 1: just follow me with the camera.
Speaker 2: I was, Yeah, I can't, I.
Speaker 1: Can't do I know, I know my limitations. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So your method is it like you become the character
Speaker 2: that you are for the duration of the filming or
Speaker 2: are you really like on off or I'm on off.
Speaker 1: I've never been I don't want to say good enough
Speaker 1: because I don't want to put it in like fields
Speaker 1: of like good and bad. But like, there are actors
Speaker 1: who are incredible and have to stay in character to
Speaker 1: give the performance that they need to give. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't necessarily see how that would work for me. But
Speaker 1: like for me, it's like I've already worked on the
Speaker 1: accent for months and months. I've already worked on the
Speaker 1: character for months and months. I've worked on what he's
Speaker 1: you know, we've done the fitting, we've done hair and
Speaker 1: makeup test, so I know the kind of cadence of
Speaker 1: maybe like the voice or whatever. But at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, like for me, it's it's just about
Speaker 1: giving a great read, being there for my my scene partner,
Speaker 1: and moving forward. So maybe it's a boring approach, but
Speaker 1: it's sort of just the approach that's worked for me.
Speaker 2: Maybe healthier as well, because you're not like, am.
Speaker 1: I yeah, yeah, I've learned now, like and this is
Speaker 1: any thing I don't make. Go for a job interview
Speaker 1: the other day and he's like, dude, I should have
Speaker 1: done this, I should have worn these socks and I
Speaker 1: should have and I'm like and welcome to being an actor,
Speaker 1: it's all about like overthinking your choices totally. So I
Speaker 1: think that's something I've come off thankfully because that was
Speaker 1: ahead mess messes.
Speaker 2: And so for your lines, that's something I always wonder about,
Speaker 2: like the TV that I do, which is so different obviously,
Speaker 2: I like we sometimes get teleprompters if it's really technical,
Speaker 2: if it's something like a lot of a wellness is
Speaker 2: like ingredients for pharmaceuticals and stuff, so you have to
Speaker 2: memorize some chunks, but like not really And then when
Speaker 2: I think about that, and then I think about the
Speaker 2: length of an episode of a TV show and the
Speaker 2: lines that you have to but also I'm being myself.
Speaker 2: You're pretending to be someone else and making it natural.
Speaker 2: How much are you memorizing at once? Like in one
Speaker 2: day are you filming? Like do you just remember a
Speaker 2: block and then you've cut that and then you move
Speaker 2: to the next block, Like I just and get how
Speaker 2: you guys remember your lines?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lot cruel intentions. Phoebe Fisher who she
Speaker 1: came from Euphoria and Sarah Goodman came from the original
Speaker 1: Gossip Girl. They were our showrunners and when they put
Speaker 1: the scripts together, the dialogue is fast, witty, quick snap action.
Speaker 1: It's very succession y but set in a college sort
Speaker 1: of world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm excited.
Speaker 1: So that was the kind of that was a really
Speaker 1: hard adjustment for some of the cast because they were
Speaker 1: maybe more used to shows that the dialogue wasn't as tight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was real sharp and it was real like just
Speaker 1: it was so witty that the scripts were incredible and cruel,
Speaker 1: and so it was cool to see everyone's process. Some
Speaker 1: of them would you know, call me up the night
Speaker 1: before and like, can we just run lines on the phone? Right?
Speaker 1: Some of them would do their own things. Some of
Speaker 1: them were able to show up in the morning how
Speaker 1: read it'd be like, cool, we're moving. For me, I'm
Speaker 1: pretty slow, So for me I would just have to
Speaker 1: sit there with my coach and be like all right,
Speaker 1: line one and just like you just start getting to
Speaker 1: work on it and eventually you stuck in a rhythm.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I would love to say have a photo
Speaker 1: photographic memory, but I'm from Chatty.
Speaker 2: I was always wondering how you do it without one, Like,
Speaker 2: so would you have when you're actually filming? Would you
Speaker 2: just have your paper like there and you're kind of
Speaker 2: going back and both back and forth.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of people will bring their scripts to set,
Speaker 1: which either shows you're unprepared or it shows you're open
Speaker 1: to collaborating. It depends on you know, wait, people shut
Speaker 1: up without it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what how do you remember the work?
Speaker 1: My first day on the Librarians, I think I was nineteen,
Speaker 1: and Noel Wiley, who was the lead, came over. He
Speaker 1: came off er, which is just all medical jargon.
Speaker 2: Yez, that's the thing. I'm like, how do they do
Speaker 2: that without looking like they're remembering?
Speaker 1: He was incredible. Yeah, he came up and he saw
Speaker 1: me with my scripting. He went okay, and it was
Speaker 1: like and I was like, I just saw everyone else
Speaker 1: bringing their their scripts and I realized on Er they
Speaker 1: had a rule doing it. Yeah. Sorry, he explained that.
Speaker 1: He's like, she's it basically meant you didn't do your
Speaker 1: work on the weekend. Yeah, So I was like, I'm
Speaker 1: going to do my work on because I don't want
Speaker 1: to feel like I don't know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: To be fair, the amount of like Er and House
Speaker 2: that I've watched, I could like radle off some suck ordosis.
Speaker 1: It's a proper like you're a qualified doctor. Now obviously
Speaker 1: I think that's how you treat people.
Speaker 2: But that blows my mind, especially without feeling like you
Speaker 2: have a photographic memory still being able to do it
Speaker 2: and with the emotion that you need to bring.
Speaker 1: There and you're bringing on an accent, and then it's
Speaker 1: it's a hard job. I say like this, people go,
Speaker 1: I want to get into acting. I go, it is
Speaker 1: the easiest hard thing you'll ever do in your life,
Speaker 1: because it's just going to be. It's going to in
Speaker 1: some ways, it's going to be like quite natural. In
Speaker 1: some ways you're gonna be like, oh, it wasn't expecting like, oh,
Speaker 1: half my job is like not looking sweaty in a
Speaker 1: scene that was shooting in the middle of summer because
Speaker 1: it's been win so I'm in this hoodie and like
Speaker 1: like it's a random, random, random industry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, And what about the like prep in terms
Speaker 2: of accents training, Like you mentioned that you've got some
Speaker 2: training coming up that you need to do, like when
Speaker 2: you have to do bodily changes and stuff like do
Speaker 2: you get a timeline? And they're like, from now you
Speaker 2: know that you need to look like this by then
Speaker 2: or sound like this by then yeah, and then you
Speaker 2: get the resources or do you go do it yourself?
Speaker 2: Like how do you work that out?
Speaker 1: It's the worst. Yeah, it's the worst. Sucks. When I
Speaker 1: was twenty or when I was younger, I definitely, I
Speaker 1: definitely like probably broached like eating disorder territory with it
Speaker 1: because you were so committed to the part and you
Speaker 1: wanted to do a great job for them. And as
Speaker 1: I explained it was my coach started had explained to
Speaker 1: me that recently. She was like I remember that time
Speaker 1: you lost the light in your eyes and I was like,
Speaker 1: oh wow, so I really went like far. But it's
Speaker 1: the worst because you put this pressure on yourself. Then
Speaker 1: you get a script and let's say your character his
Speaker 1: name is Adam. It'll say Adam takes his shirt off,
Speaker 1: his body is more incredible than we ever imagined, Like
Speaker 1: who who wrote this? And also like I want to
Speaker 1: look like I like Adam. There's no need for Adam
Speaker 1: is a twenty eight year old accountant. Why does he
Speaker 1: have a ten pass? Why? Yeah? Like why would it?
Speaker 1: And I'm like I want to look like I run
Speaker 1: twice week and maybe skip the Zingerburger every now and then,
Speaker 1: Like that's the body I would like to portray the
Speaker 1: live in. Yeah, it's definitely obviously it's a well documented thing,
Speaker 1: the bodily pressures of being in Hollywood, and I think
Speaker 1: even worse for women. So I mean, I can complain
Speaker 1: all like one, but I think I think as bad
Speaker 1: as it is for guys who feel like they need
Speaker 1: to show off their abs or whatever, I think women
Speaker 1: have a whole other just boat load of insecurities and
Speaker 1: things that get surfaced and brought up because because like
Speaker 1: I think the industry has a problem, like it has
Speaker 1: a bodily image problem, and I just like my favorite
Speaker 1: actor is now like James Gandelfini from Sopranos or John
Speaker 1: Taturo or Bill Camp or all these guys that are
Speaker 1: just like it's not about the the superhero look. It's
Speaker 1: it's more just you know, going to be a real
Speaker 1: person and do people want to watch this? And is
Speaker 1: it interesting? And can I connect? But that's maybe also
Speaker 1: just in line with my mentality now of like, oh,
Speaker 1: it doesn't define you, it doesn't really matter at the
Speaker 1: end of the day.
Speaker 2: It's interesting that you said the pressures for women. Perhaps
Speaker 2: I actually think that we've come a long way in
Speaker 2: understanding what those pressures are. Whereas I think for men
Speaker 2: it's dismissed. It's sort of like you're not allowed to
Speaker 2: have body image is shoes because you're a dude. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Whereas it's almost like it's not as accepted for you
Speaker 2: to be self conscious.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: To Like, I've had a lot of guys sort of
Speaker 2: say they don't feel as comfortable to have body image
Speaker 2: issues because it's not accepted as a masculine problem, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. Like it is like, oh, women can,
Speaker 2: but like men can't, right, Yeah, Or they wouldn't talk
Speaker 2: about having an eating disorder or author ex or anything
Speaker 2: because it's less well known.
Speaker 1: It goes in both ways in a sense. I think
Speaker 1: I think overall improvement needs to happen. But in my opinion,
Speaker 1: I can't speak for the vast majority, but I think
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, like there needs to
Speaker 1: be injected a higher level of compassion.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I think this idea of like just ridiculously cut
Speaker 1: or ridiculously you know whatever sexy and trendy at the
Speaker 1: time bodies for guys and girls, I think it just
Speaker 1: we need to come back, We need to come off
Speaker 1: it because we're all born different and like you know,
Speaker 1: like men will get be sensitive about their height and
Speaker 1: you realize it's not Actually it's less to do with
Speaker 1: like oh they walk around being like I can't reach something.
Speaker 1: It's more to do with like it's not funny. It's
Speaker 1: not like an actual like day to day thing. It's
Speaker 1: an internal like thing of like what it means to
Speaker 1: be taller or shorter or average hime.
Speaker 2: What society thinks.
Speaker 1: Or what society do you think? And I'm living proof
Speaker 1: of like I let society and their opinions move me
Speaker 1: to another country for twelve years, so like whilst I
Speaker 1: found success and whatnot, I feel a little like Frodo,
Speaker 1: Like I went to the shift the Shire and now
Speaker 1: I'm like coming back and they're like, how are you doing?
Speaker 1: And I'm like still burnt from Ount Mortal, but I
Speaker 1: dropped the ring and I feel that's what it feels like.
Speaker 1: I feel like I've definitely gone out and learned some stuff.
Speaker 1: I met some great friends, but I think it's time
Speaker 1: for this hobbit to kind of come back to the
Speaker 1: Shire for a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we'd be thrilled with that we did actually
Speaker 2: go and get oh my god, well before you do that,
Speaker 2: you do have one very big project which is just
Speaker 2: coming out, which Nick is thrilled about.
Speaker 1: He is more excited than I am, absolutely more excited
Speaker 1: than you. Incredible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know you can't say much about it, but
Speaker 2: say what you can. Congratulations, thank you, and then coming
Speaker 2: back to the Shire after that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so I guess I recently found out I'm
Speaker 1: going to be doing a movie at least until now,
Speaker 1: because because things are subject to change obviously in this industry,
Speaker 1: at a moment's notice, you.
Speaker 2: Could be cutting this whole bit exactly.
Speaker 1: Himself. No. I it's looking at this time of recording
Speaker 1: like I'll be jumping on the new live action Vultron,
Speaker 1: so that should be fun. But Nick is more. He
Speaker 1: was at the cafe like eyes like just blown up,
Speaker 1: and he ran.
Speaker 2: Home to tell me as if it was like you
Speaker 2: were pregnant or ya.
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, well, if I got married that day,
Speaker 1: he wouldn't have mentioned it. It would have been all about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would have said it on Instagram, be like,
Speaker 2: why need you tell me You're at his wedding Jesus,
Speaker 2: Well that's super exciting. Congratulations, But I think actually the
Speaker 2: bigger congratulations for you is where you're at right now
Speaker 2: with It's funny that at the very beginning you said
Speaker 2: you looked at other kids and you were like, Wow,
Speaker 2: they're all really like balanced and well adjusted, Whereas I
Speaker 2: think that that's what I think of is you right now,
Speaker 2: You're coming to this table like very well adjusted, like
Speaker 2: very grounded in a lot of perspective. It sounds like
Speaker 2: you've been through a lot of reflection.
Speaker 1: As as everyone. You know, I don't own the rights
Speaker 1: to being insecure or being in my own head or overthinking,
Speaker 1: so I'm conscious of that. And you know, if I
Speaker 1: have a wish for myself for the next fifty sixty,
Speaker 1: seventy years or however long I'm allowed to live, it's
Speaker 1: just like just just treating people really nicely. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's that's sort of I just want to
Speaker 1: be a good person, which a good man, you know,
Speaker 1: which is I think that's going to be a for
Speaker 1: evolusive goal, but you know, we'll keep chasing.
Speaker 2: I think you're doing pretty well well. Thank you so
Speaker 2: much for joining. It's been an absolute pleasure, And I'll
Speaker 2: include links in the show notes to everything you're doing,
Speaker 2: all the places people can find you want to picture
Speaker 2: of the camera get I can go, oh my god,
Speaker 2: that is going to be the cover of the episode.
Speaker 2: And like, your mom needs her own page, so we
Speaker 2: can all just get around it. If I found out
Speaker 2: anyone is going to.
Speaker 1: Be a mom, she would she is. She's loving life
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 2: I know I have to invite her. She's definitely coming
Speaker 2: to Teddy's Furst. You're not invited because you'll be away,
Speaker 2: but she, she is.
Speaker 1: She'll bring actual rice cakes. Yes, thank you so much,
Speaker 1: thanks SIRH appreciate you.
Speaker 2: I mean I was blown away the first time I
Speaker 2: had this chat, but I've continued to be so every
Speaker 2: time I've listened. It was just such an incredible, real
Speaker 2: time insight into the very essence of finding your deepest,
Speaker 2: truest yea and wading through what society considers to be
Speaker 2: the pinnacle of success. I mean, there's nothing glitzy and
Speaker 2: glamorous than Hollywood, and John has gone on to achieve
Speaker 2: things I'm sure childhood him could never have dreamed would
Speaker 2: come true. And yes, of course it's incredible as he acknowledges,
Speaker 2: but also watching him weigh his way back to other
Speaker 2: things that give him joy and the things that really
Speaker 2: matter to him. All of that clarity coming in was
Speaker 2: just so fascinating to listen to. I hung on to
Speaker 2: every single word, and if you did too, you'll understand why.
Speaker 2: I would especially love your support more than usual in
Speaker 2: thanking John for his time, for being so vulnerable with
Speaker 2: something that's such a recent revelation, for him, for coming
Speaker 2: on a podcast when he never does them, and I
Speaker 2: still can't believe this is his first one. Just what
Speaker 2: an absolute legend. He is such a nice guy. From
Speaker 2: the first time I met him, I was just taken
Speaker 2: by his humility and his kindness and warmth. So please
Speaker 2: share the episode if you enjoyed it, any takeaways you've
Speaker 2: had along the way, or if you're watching him in
Speaker 2: crauel intentions, do tag him let him know what you
Speaker 2: think at John Harlan Kim on Instagram. I mean, just
Speaker 2: an absolute legend. I feel so lucky to have had
Speaker 2: him on the show this week. In the meantime, what
Speaker 2: a big few weeks it's been of incredible chats and guests.
Speaker 2: We're really well and truly getting our momentum back after
Speaker 2: such a slowed down as I got used to life
Speaker 2: with Teddy, but it's wonderful to be back in the flow.
Speaker 2: Thank you all so much for the support and love
Speaker 2: and listening along. I hope you're all feeling festive and
Speaker 2: are seizing your yay