1 00:00:10,622 --> 00:00:13,342 Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 2 00:00:13,822 --> 00:00:17,182 Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 3 00:00:17,222 --> 00:00:20,861 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. It was the American 4 00:00:20,982 --> 00:00:24,062 Speaker 2: Music Awards gist, and in the absence of any announcement 5 00:00:24,102 --> 00:00:27,062 Speaker 2: of a new Taylor Swift album, it served instead as 6 00:00:27,142 --> 00:00:30,461 Speaker 2: Jay Low's Hard. She danced to a medley of the 7 00:00:30,542 --> 00:00:34,222 Speaker 2: year's biggest song. She passed some dances which got people going, 8 00:00:34,302 --> 00:00:36,582 Speaker 2: oh those girls and boys. 9 00:00:36,702 --> 00:00:39,342 Speaker 3: This is me on Instagram after being dumped. This is 10 00:00:39,422 --> 00:00:45,022 Speaker 3: like an interpreted dance of my behavior. I'm kissing him, 11 00:00:44,102 --> 00:00:47,022 Speaker 3: I'm in a body suit, I'm just looking at hard, 12 00:00:47,102 --> 00:00:49,141 Speaker 3: I'm singing all the songs and it was just my 13 00:00:49,182 --> 00:00:50,101 Speaker 3: relatable things. 14 00:00:49,982 --> 00:00:51,502 Speaker 1: Shaking my very famous booty. 15 00:00:55,022 --> 00:00:57,662 Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia. Out loud what women 16 00:00:57,702 --> 00:01:00,622 Speaker 2: are actually talking about? On Wednesday, the twenty eighth of May, 17 00:01:00,942 --> 00:01:04,262 Speaker 2: we are back together and we are in our new studio. 18 00:01:04,301 --> 00:01:05,261 Speaker 2: Are we feeling fresh? 19 00:01:05,622 --> 00:01:08,542 Speaker 1: Feeling fresh and fancy? Have to say, pods are an 20 00:01:08,542 --> 00:01:12,702 Speaker 1: audio medium except when they're not. So we are in 21 00:01:12,782 --> 00:01:15,622 Speaker 1: our lovely studio because podcasts have to be videoed now. 22 00:01:15,782 --> 00:01:18,302 Speaker 1: So Mum and me moved into a new office this 23 00:01:18,382 --> 00:01:22,301 Speaker 1: week and that means new studios for all our podcasts. 24 00:01:22,422 --> 00:01:24,822 Speaker 1: And I don't know, maybe I'm biased, but I think 25 00:01:24,822 --> 00:01:25,742 Speaker 1: our lads is nice. 26 00:01:26,182 --> 00:01:27,742 Speaker 2: I feel like I've started a new job. 27 00:01:27,782 --> 00:01:29,742 Speaker 3: I was saying to someone before I was walking around, 28 00:01:29,782 --> 00:01:31,262 Speaker 3: you know when you're just a bit irritable, And yesterday 29 00:01:31,262 --> 00:01:33,422 Speaker 3: I was walking around irritable and I went, you've not 30 00:01:33,502 --> 00:01:35,542 Speaker 3: gone to the toilet. You really need to do a week. 31 00:01:36,222 --> 00:01:38,581 Speaker 3: But I don't know where the toilet is. And I 32 00:01:38,582 --> 00:01:41,222 Speaker 3: had to just say five minutes, going, let's find the toilet. 33 00:01:41,302 --> 00:01:43,262 Speaker 1: I saw you a lot yesterday and every time you 34 00:01:43,422 --> 00:01:45,062 Speaker 1: just be wandering past, going do you know where the 35 00:01:45,742 --> 00:01:46,822 Speaker 1: do you know where the toilet is? 36 00:01:46,982 --> 00:01:48,462 Speaker 3: I feel like I've started a new job. 37 00:01:48,582 --> 00:01:50,982 Speaker 2: If you want to see our wonderful new studios, which 38 00:01:51,022 --> 00:01:54,142 Speaker 2: are super beautiful and all furnished by the fancy Benton 39 00:01:54,182 --> 00:01:57,062 Speaker 2: and Fenton, you'll see them on our socials because all 40 00:01:57,102 --> 00:01:59,382 Speaker 2: the videos that we're filming for out Loud, now we're 41 00:01:59,422 --> 00:02:01,942 Speaker 2: in our fancy studios and you're gonna. 42 00:02:01,902 --> 00:02:04,662 Speaker 3: It looks like a beautiful apartment. 43 00:02:06,102 --> 00:02:09,061 Speaker 1: Well, I don't know that anybody's fancy anyway. Who are 44 00:02:09,061 --> 00:02:09,982 Speaker 1: we back to business? 45 00:02:10,181 --> 00:02:14,142 Speaker 2: I'm Holly Wayne right and I'm Jesse Stevens and on 46 00:02:14,222 --> 00:02:17,502 Speaker 2: the show. Today, two states have rewritten the rules on 47 00:02:17,622 --> 00:02:20,542 Speaker 2: accessing some of the most prescribed meds in the country. 48 00:02:21,102 --> 00:02:24,302 Speaker 2: Also the French president his wife and the shove no 49 00:02:24,382 --> 00:02:27,582 Speaker 2: one was supposed to see, and the woman being kept 50 00:02:27,622 --> 00:02:31,502 Speaker 2: alive for her unborn child. But first Mia. 51 00:02:31,542 --> 00:02:34,942 Speaker 1: In case you missed it, Debory Finesse has officially filed 52 00:02:34,942 --> 00:02:38,822 Speaker 1: for divorce from Hugh Jackman. And you might be thinking, wait, 53 00:02:39,262 --> 00:02:41,382 Speaker 1: haven't they been divorced for a while, He's got a 54 00:02:41,462 --> 00:02:44,662 Speaker 1: new partner, And you'd be right and also wrong. They 55 00:02:44,902 --> 00:02:48,501 Speaker 1: were married in nineteen ninety six, so almost thirty years ago, 56 00:02:48,622 --> 00:02:51,702 Speaker 1: and then in September twenty twenty three they announced they 57 00:02:51,742 --> 00:02:55,382 Speaker 1: were separating, so that's like a good eighteen months ago. 58 00:02:56,181 --> 00:03:00,142 Speaker 1: In January this year, Hugh Jackman did his first pap 59 00:03:00,181 --> 00:03:02,902 Speaker 1: walk with Sutton Foster, who was a co star in 60 00:03:03,382 --> 00:03:06,542 Speaker 1: musical they were both in together in Broadway, and the 61 00:03:06,622 --> 00:03:10,502 Speaker 1: timeline of when their relationship started and when his marriage ended, 62 00:03:11,022 --> 00:03:13,501 Speaker 1: I think everyone can agree it's a little fuzzy. 63 00:03:13,822 --> 00:03:17,422 Speaker 3: It's a bit fuzzy. And Sutton Foster has also of 64 00:03:17,462 --> 00:03:20,742 Speaker 3: course split with her husband. They are also in the 65 00:03:20,742 --> 00:03:22,582 Speaker 3: midst of divorce proceedings. 66 00:03:22,782 --> 00:03:27,422 Speaker 1: Yes, so this week. The fact that Debra le filed 67 00:03:27,542 --> 00:03:31,422 Speaker 1: means that they've reached a private settlement that has covered 68 00:03:31,582 --> 00:03:34,662 Speaker 1: spousal support and all the financial matters. They've got two 69 00:03:34,862 --> 00:03:36,942 Speaker 1: kids who I think have both moved out of home. 70 00:03:37,062 --> 00:03:40,462 Speaker 1: I think they're over eighteen. The divorce is also uncontested, 71 00:03:40,582 --> 00:03:42,742 Speaker 1: so it just needs a judge to sign it off. 72 00:03:42,942 --> 00:03:44,982 Speaker 1: There've been reports that there's been quite a lot of 73 00:03:45,302 --> 00:03:48,862 Speaker 1: jocking behind the scene, as with any marriage split. But 74 00:03:48,942 --> 00:03:54,062 Speaker 1: what's interesting about this is both are leaking a little bit. 75 00:03:54,222 --> 00:03:57,302 Speaker 1: And it's interesting because not since January when Sutton Foster 76 00:03:57,382 --> 00:03:59,902 Speaker 1: and Hugh Jackman did quite a few pap walks and 77 00:03:59,942 --> 00:04:02,182 Speaker 1: they were filmed patching it in and out burger in 78 00:04:02,182 --> 00:04:04,942 Speaker 1: the car, they've gone a bit quiet. So there were 79 00:04:04,942 --> 00:04:08,142 Speaker 1: some rumors has Hugh Jackman and Sutton Foster broken up? Oh, 80 00:04:08,422 --> 00:04:10,542 Speaker 1: but then they popped up a again in what was 81 00:04:10,582 --> 00:04:13,102 Speaker 1: again very clearly a pat walk. They seem to be 82 00:04:13,302 --> 00:04:15,342 Speaker 1: her moving into his apartment, and then they were dressed 83 00:04:15,382 --> 00:04:17,662 Speaker 1: and sort of walking around I think in either La 84 00:04:17,822 --> 00:04:22,462 Speaker 1: or New York. The Daily Mail reported this morning that 85 00:04:23,062 --> 00:04:26,101 Speaker 1: a source close to Jackman says that he is looking 86 00:04:26,142 --> 00:04:28,782 Speaker 1: forward to the future and not looking back, which is 87 00:04:28,821 --> 00:04:31,901 Speaker 1: a bit shots fired. And then they said in a 88 00:04:31,902 --> 00:04:35,421 Speaker 1: statement sent to Daily Mail, Deborah Lee said, my heart 89 00:04:35,421 --> 00:04:38,141 Speaker 1: and compassion goes out to everyone who has traversed the 90 00:04:38,181 --> 00:04:43,021 Speaker 1: traumatic journey of betrayal. It's a profound wound that cuts deep. However, 91 00:04:43,061 --> 00:04:45,501 Speaker 1: I believe in a higher power and that God, the universe, 92 00:04:45,741 --> 00:04:48,861 Speaker 1: whatever you relate to as your guidance is always working 93 00:04:49,181 --> 00:04:50,741 Speaker 1: for us. 94 00:04:50,741 --> 00:04:54,941 Speaker 2: The word betrays Yeah, that's not shots fired. That's like 95 00:04:55,421 --> 00:04:57,061 Speaker 2: the nuclear button husband push. 96 00:04:57,222 --> 00:04:57,621 Speaker 1: Yeah. 97 00:04:57,662 --> 00:05:00,941 Speaker 3: So, Daily Mail, how sure are we that that is 98 00:05:00,941 --> 00:05:03,582 Speaker 3: a quote by Deborahlely because that feels out of character. 99 00:05:03,782 --> 00:05:07,381 Speaker 1: It does. It's interesting, hole and I had the same conversation. 100 00:05:07,702 --> 00:05:09,541 Speaker 1: You're the expert in this hole. What do you think? 101 00:05:09,782 --> 00:05:13,541 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not entirely sold that. She said that because 102 00:05:13,582 --> 00:05:17,222 Speaker 2: it hasn't been widely reported by more reputable sources. But 103 00:05:17,582 --> 00:05:21,061 Speaker 2: Mia said before both sides are leaking. It could be 104 00:05:21,142 --> 00:05:23,662 Speaker 2: the kind of thing that oh slips out and then 105 00:05:23,741 --> 00:05:25,261 Speaker 2: oh no, I never said that. Do you know what? 106 00:05:25,501 --> 00:05:27,502 Speaker 1: Right I care? I think she's really hurt. 107 00:05:27,582 --> 00:05:29,222 Speaker 2: Why would she do that now? 108 00:05:29,541 --> 00:05:33,421 Speaker 1: I think probably because they've reached their agreement, And yet 109 00:05:33,462 --> 00:05:38,061 Speaker 1: it hasn't been completely stamped. So I imagine within the agreement, 110 00:05:38,101 --> 00:05:41,541 Speaker 1: and I'm spitballing, that there would be non disparagement clauses 111 00:05:41,541 --> 00:05:43,262 Speaker 1: and that they would agree not to talk about each 112 00:05:43,301 --> 00:05:43,941 Speaker 1: other to the press. 113 00:05:43,981 --> 00:05:46,221 Speaker 2: That's a kind of negative way, right the public people 114 00:05:46,222 --> 00:05:47,941 Speaker 2: put in divorce correct settlements. 115 00:05:48,061 --> 00:05:50,622 Speaker 1: So she might be just getting in this little window 116 00:05:50,741 --> 00:05:53,742 Speaker 1: between them agreeing and it being finalized. 117 00:05:54,262 --> 00:05:56,381 Speaker 3: Oh that's interesting. I have a quick question about this. 118 00:05:57,222 --> 00:06:02,221 Speaker 3: Why has this not seemed to taint Hugh Jackman's brand? 119 00:06:02,462 --> 00:06:05,022 Speaker 3: Why is it that Hugh Jackman still He was recently 120 00:06:05,022 --> 00:06:07,101 Speaker 3: in BONDI My sister saw him on the beach. Everyone 121 00:06:07,181 --> 00:06:09,101 Speaker 3: was going, Hi, Hugh. He was walking around with his 122 00:06:09,142 --> 00:06:12,061 Speaker 3: shirt off, with satin no on his own. Do you 123 00:06:12,101 --> 00:06:14,181 Speaker 3: think that it's because he was married to Deborah Lee 124 00:06:14,262 --> 00:06:16,141 Speaker 3: for such a long time. He's not the guy that 125 00:06:16,181 --> 00:06:18,182 Speaker 3: goes from one woman to another. It does appear that 126 00:06:18,222 --> 00:06:21,101 Speaker 3: there was some kind of betrayal. Insiders say that maybe 127 00:06:21,101 --> 00:06:23,861 Speaker 3: it was emotional rather than physical. There's no evidence that 128 00:06:23,861 --> 00:06:26,061 Speaker 3: they were kind of like hooking up on set and 129 00:06:26,101 --> 00:06:28,861 Speaker 3: then Deborah found like, we don't know, but do you 130 00:06:28,861 --> 00:06:29,941 Speaker 3: think this will stick to him? 131 00:06:30,501 --> 00:06:34,581 Speaker 2: No, because he hasn't done anything wrong, like as in, 132 00:06:34,741 --> 00:06:37,381 Speaker 2: you know, obviously it's not great if he was still 133 00:06:38,022 --> 00:06:40,381 Speaker 2: with Deborah when he met Sutton. But he and Deborah 134 00:06:40,381 --> 00:06:43,621 Speaker 2: were together for decades. He was always a real wife guy. 135 00:06:43,782 --> 00:06:46,222 Speaker 2: He only ever sang her praises. They were together to 136 00:06:46,301 --> 00:06:49,662 Speaker 2: a whole lot of stuff. I entirely understand if she's furious, 137 00:06:49,702 --> 00:06:52,381 Speaker 2: of course, but like people have done a lot worse 138 00:06:52,462 --> 00:06:54,061 Speaker 2: and there's still big movie stars. 139 00:06:54,342 --> 00:06:56,741 Speaker 1: I think if he had had his next relationship with 140 00:06:56,782 --> 00:06:59,782 Speaker 1: someone who is in her twenties or even thirties, that 141 00:06:59,782 --> 00:07:01,902 Speaker 1: would have been different. And I think maybe if Deborah 142 00:07:01,981 --> 00:07:06,101 Speaker 1: Lee was like a beloved national treasure. I think she 143 00:07:06,181 --> 00:07:09,462 Speaker 1: is a beloved national. I don't think she's known very well. 144 00:07:09,702 --> 00:07:11,822 Speaker 1: I think that one of the things about their relationship 145 00:07:11,862 --> 00:07:14,901 Speaker 1: is that she parked her career, so she kind of 146 00:07:14,902 --> 00:07:17,701 Speaker 1: stopped acting when they got together for reasons. You know, 147 00:07:17,742 --> 00:07:21,022 Speaker 1: they had family in his career was huge, and they 148 00:07:21,062 --> 00:07:23,901 Speaker 1: moved all over the world for that, and so people 149 00:07:23,982 --> 00:07:26,502 Speaker 1: don't really know much about her, so there's not a 150 00:07:26,622 --> 00:07:30,021 Speaker 1: sense of feeling the betrayal on her behalf, you know. 151 00:07:31,462 --> 00:07:35,382 Speaker 2: Speaking of hot divorces, it was the American Music Awards 152 00:07:35,422 --> 00:07:38,102 Speaker 2: yesterday and in the absence of any announcement of a 153 00:07:38,142 --> 00:07:40,302 Speaker 2: new Taylor Swift album, which some people thought was going 154 00:07:40,381 --> 00:07:40,742 Speaker 2: to happen. 155 00:07:40,862 --> 00:07:42,381 Speaker 1: Right when is rep TV coming? 156 00:07:42,502 --> 00:07:44,502 Speaker 2: She just get on with it. She's so lazy, that Taylor, 157 00:07:44,662 --> 00:07:47,542 Speaker 2: She's so lazy, or any big names there at all. Really, 158 00:07:47,662 --> 00:07:51,821 Speaker 2: it served instead as j Loo's hard relaunch. As we know, 159 00:07:52,462 --> 00:07:55,222 Speaker 2: she went through a very painful divorce. Not actually, I 160 00:07:55,302 --> 00:07:56,502 Speaker 2: was going to say for the second time, but that's 161 00:07:56,502 --> 00:07:58,342 Speaker 2: not true. They never got married the first time, didn't 162 00:07:58,342 --> 00:08:00,141 Speaker 2: they she and Ben Affleck. But she went through a 163 00:08:00,182 --> 00:08:03,782 Speaker 2: divorce last northern summer and had to cancel her tour. 164 00:08:04,022 --> 00:08:06,542 Speaker 2: Remember she's had a few divorces. Well, she said, think 165 00:08:06,582 --> 00:08:09,141 Speaker 2: this one was the most public and brutal, very brutal, 166 00:08:09,342 --> 00:08:11,622 Speaker 2: and she canceled her tour. And she's been a little 167 00:08:11,622 --> 00:08:14,622 Speaker 2: bit licking her wounds since then, but not anymore because 168 00:08:14,662 --> 00:08:16,662 Speaker 2: she came out, She hosted, She changed her out for 169 00:08:16,702 --> 00:08:19,662 Speaker 2: eight times, very ja Lo. I love that she danced 170 00:08:19,702 --> 00:08:22,302 Speaker 2: to a medley of the year's biggest songs like full 171 00:08:22,422 --> 00:08:26,502 Speaker 2: choreographed room tunes to like Charlie XYX and Shiboozi and 172 00:08:26,622 --> 00:08:30,662 Speaker 2: Kendrick and all the cool tunes. Chapel roone, interestingly, not 173 00:08:30,702 --> 00:08:34,102 Speaker 2: her own, not her own. She passed some dancers which 174 00:08:34,142 --> 00:08:35,222 Speaker 2: got people going. 175 00:08:35,062 --> 00:08:37,222 Speaker 1: Oh those boys, the girls and boys. 176 00:08:37,902 --> 00:08:40,342 Speaker 2: She's got a big tour this summer in Europe and 177 00:08:40,381 --> 00:08:43,062 Speaker 2: the Middle East, and she had Vega States to announce, 178 00:08:43,102 --> 00:08:45,982 Speaker 2: so she is like back of the back back, And 179 00:08:46,102 --> 00:08:49,182 Speaker 2: there's even a rumored situationship with Lewis Hamilton. The race 180 00:08:50,342 --> 00:08:53,502 Speaker 2: Oh I like that for her apparently has always fancied 181 00:08:53,582 --> 00:08:56,862 Speaker 2: Jlo and was on the record of sa, yeah, he's 182 00:08:57,062 --> 00:08:59,982 Speaker 2: a little bit of a pantsman, but he's on the 183 00:09:00,022 --> 00:09:01,942 Speaker 2: record of saying that he really hoped he'd bump into 184 00:09:01,942 --> 00:09:03,542 Speaker 2: it at the met Gala one year because he wants 185 00:09:03,582 --> 00:09:05,182 Speaker 2: to tell her that he's always loved her. And then 186 00:09:05,222 --> 00:09:07,222 Speaker 2: there was a picture of them together at a photo shoot, 187 00:09:07,262 --> 00:09:10,262 Speaker 2: like a very posed That's pessional picture. 188 00:09:10,102 --> 00:09:13,742 Speaker 3: Everyone needs after a breakup is someone saying I've always true. 189 00:09:13,942 --> 00:09:16,742 Speaker 2: But what I love about j Lo she does nothing 190 00:09:17,022 --> 00:09:20,462 Speaker 2: fifty percent right. As Lady Gossip said today, if she 191 00:09:20,542 --> 00:09:22,622 Speaker 2: was at your backgyard barbecue, or if she's hosting the 192 00:09:22,622 --> 00:09:26,182 Speaker 2: amas its sequence Its dances, it's eight costume changes, it's 193 00:09:26,182 --> 00:09:28,662 Speaker 2: a full choreograph routine. We've all got a bit like that. 194 00:09:29,702 --> 00:09:32,982 Speaker 3: I saw snippets of this on Instagram and TikTok, and 195 00:09:33,022 --> 00:09:35,502 Speaker 3: I thought, this is me on Instagram after being dumped. 196 00:09:35,742 --> 00:09:38,982 Speaker 3: This is like an interpretive dance of my behavior on 197 00:09:40,062 --> 00:09:43,222 Speaker 3: I'm kissing him, I'm in a body suit, I'm just 198 00:09:43,262 --> 00:09:45,382 Speaker 3: looking at hart, I'm singing all the songs, and it 199 00:09:45,462 --> 00:09:46,862 Speaker 3: was just relatable. 200 00:09:46,422 --> 00:09:49,702 Speaker 1: Things, shaking my very famous booty. I've read a little 201 00:09:49,702 --> 00:09:52,942 Speaker 1: bit of backlash about her sort of queer baiting and 202 00:09:53,022 --> 00:09:55,942 Speaker 1: kissing women and kissing men, and it was giving a 203 00:09:55,982 --> 00:09:59,382 Speaker 1: little bit of two thousand and three Madonna and Brittany. 204 00:10:00,302 --> 00:10:03,142 Speaker 1: But I feel like when you watch the whole performance, 205 00:10:03,182 --> 00:10:05,702 Speaker 1: which sort of went for seven minutes, that was a 206 00:10:05,742 --> 00:10:08,542 Speaker 1: minor part of it, and that's kind of just table stakes. Now. 207 00:10:08,822 --> 00:10:11,182 Speaker 1: It's sort of what everybody does to show that they're 208 00:10:11,622 --> 00:10:14,342 Speaker 1: modern and relevant. I mean every performer in that way. 209 00:10:14,542 --> 00:10:18,782 Speaker 1: That idea of sexual fluidity is kind of like what 210 00:10:18,822 --> 00:10:20,702 Speaker 1: you have to do if you're a pop star. But 211 00:10:21,062 --> 00:10:24,022 Speaker 1: she also reminded the world that she's a dancer, like 212 00:10:24,462 --> 00:10:27,662 Speaker 1: others may sing better than her, others may act better 213 00:10:27,702 --> 00:10:28,022 Speaker 1: than her. 214 00:10:29,902 --> 00:10:32,742 Speaker 2: I sat through that movie You Made Me started as. 215 00:10:32,662 --> 00:10:35,862 Speaker 1: A dancer, and this is her now. 216 00:10:36,782 --> 00:10:39,102 Speaker 3: You may have seen the news that GPS in New 217 00:10:39,142 --> 00:10:42,182 Speaker 3: South Wales will be among the first in Australia to 218 00:10:42,342 --> 00:10:46,622 Speaker 3: diagnose and prescribe medication for children and adults with ADHD. 219 00:10:47,542 --> 00:10:50,502 Speaker 3: As it stands, most people in the country who are 220 00:10:50,502 --> 00:10:54,462 Speaker 3: seeking a diagnosis or ongoing medication for the condition need 221 00:10:54,462 --> 00:10:56,902 Speaker 3: to see a pediatrician. For kids or adults need to 222 00:10:56,902 --> 00:11:02,502 Speaker 3: see a psychiatrist, which is incredibly expensive and also involves 223 00:11:02,782 --> 00:11:05,462 Speaker 3: lengthy wait times, which we've talked about on the podcast before. Yeah, 224 00:11:05,462 --> 00:11:08,182 Speaker 3: if you can even find one whose books aren't closed, yeah, yeah, No. 225 00:11:08,342 --> 00:11:10,702 Speaker 3: I have people in my life who to wait up 226 00:11:10,742 --> 00:11:13,142 Speaker 3: to a year or more. I remember when I first 227 00:11:13,262 --> 00:11:15,742 Speaker 3: tried to get an appointment a few years ago, and 228 00:11:15,782 --> 00:11:16,902 Speaker 3: it was just coming out of COVID. 229 00:11:16,942 --> 00:11:18,142 Speaker 1: The wait list was two years. 230 00:11:18,382 --> 00:11:20,222 Speaker 3: An appointment can be hundreds and hundreds of. 231 00:11:20,182 --> 00:11:22,422 Speaker 1: Dollars five hundred and six thousand dollars. 232 00:11:22,782 --> 00:11:25,422 Speaker 3: So what's happening is For example, the Guardian spoke to 233 00:11:25,462 --> 00:11:29,982 Speaker 3: a woman named Suzanne Grobkey who was making an eight 234 00:11:30,062 --> 00:11:31,902 Speaker 3: hour round trip. She lives in the mid North coast 235 00:11:31,942 --> 00:11:33,742 Speaker 3: of New South Wales and she was making an eight 236 00:11:33,782 --> 00:11:36,542 Speaker 3: hour round trip every three months to see a pediatrician 237 00:11:36,582 --> 00:11:38,422 Speaker 3: to get access for the medicine for a twelve year 238 00:11:38,422 --> 00:11:42,022 Speaker 3: old and doctor Rebecca Hoffman shared in a press release 239 00:11:42,142 --> 00:11:46,261 Speaker 3: about this new initiative that families are spending upwards of 240 00:11:46,302 --> 00:11:49,542 Speaker 3: five thousand dollars on getting an assessment, a diagnosis, and 241 00:11:49,622 --> 00:11:50,102 Speaker 3: the medication. 242 00:11:50,342 --> 00:11:52,942 Speaker 1: I understood that, you know, there were gatekeepers for being 243 00:11:53,142 --> 00:11:57,582 Speaker 1: diagnosed and getting your first access to that medication, but 244 00:11:57,702 --> 00:11:59,982 Speaker 1: once you're on it, I assumed that it was something 245 00:12:00,102 --> 00:12:02,942 Speaker 1: a script that your GP could refill, but that's not 246 00:12:02,982 --> 00:12:05,142 Speaker 1: the case. And so every I can't remember for six 247 00:12:05,142 --> 00:12:07,702 Speaker 1: months or twelve months, I have to have a conversation 248 00:12:07,982 --> 00:12:10,902 Speaker 1: with my psychiatrist who died it knows me to just 249 00:12:11,022 --> 00:12:13,742 Speaker 1: essentially check in and it's just over telehealth. It doesn't 250 00:12:13,742 --> 00:12:18,382 Speaker 1: take long, but it costs several hundred dollars, whereas formality. 251 00:12:17,942 --> 00:12:20,422 Speaker 3: Really, yeah, I'm on antidepressants, have been for ten years, 252 00:12:20,462 --> 00:12:23,302 Speaker 3: and I can get my script filled just with my GP. 253 00:12:23,382 --> 00:12:25,182 Speaker 3: I don't have to say a psychiatrist for that. So 254 00:12:25,662 --> 00:12:28,222 Speaker 3: it's different depending on the meds. So what do these 255 00:12:28,262 --> 00:12:32,262 Speaker 3: reforms actually mean in practice? So one thousand gps will 256 00:12:32,262 --> 00:12:36,422 Speaker 3: be specially trained to provide ongoing ADHD prescriptions. 257 00:12:36,422 --> 00:12:37,702 Speaker 1: So not just any GP. 258 00:12:37,822 --> 00:12:39,822 Speaker 3: Not just any GP, and so if you want to 259 00:12:39,822 --> 00:12:41,782 Speaker 3: go and say can I get a repeat, then they 260 00:12:41,822 --> 00:12:45,022 Speaker 3: can do that. One hundred GPS will be enabled to 261 00:12:45,102 --> 00:12:48,342 Speaker 3: diagnose and prescribe the medication, so an even fewer amount 262 00:12:48,542 --> 00:12:50,982 Speaker 3: will be trained funded by the New South Wales government 263 00:12:51,262 --> 00:12:53,942 Speaker 3: to go. You are now able to sit in your 264 00:12:53,942 --> 00:12:55,622 Speaker 3: office and diagnose ADHD. 265 00:12:55,742 --> 00:12:56,782 Speaker 1: That doesn't seem like a lot. 266 00:12:56,862 --> 00:12:59,702 Speaker 3: It's not a lot, it's not I would guess that 267 00:12:59,782 --> 00:13:01,582 Speaker 3: this has a lot to do with regional areas, the 268 00:13:01,662 --> 00:13:03,902 Speaker 3: regional areas of New South Wales where it's harder, they 269 00:13:04,102 --> 00:13:07,742 Speaker 3: will probably resource. The state government in Western Australia is 270 00:13:07,782 --> 00:13:10,862 Speaker 3: putting forward similar proposals in terms of breaking these barriers, 271 00:13:11,262 --> 00:13:15,982 Speaker 3: and in Queensland GPS can prescribe certain ADHD meds for 272 00:13:16,102 --> 00:13:20,142 Speaker 3: children without specialist approval. So this is an ongoing discussion 273 00:13:20,142 --> 00:13:22,102 Speaker 3: around the country and I don't think anyone would be 274 00:13:22,102 --> 00:13:24,662 Speaker 3: surprised to see this change in other states over the 275 00:13:24,662 --> 00:13:28,942 Speaker 3: coming years. Holly, what are the experts saying in regards 276 00:13:28,942 --> 00:13:30,622 Speaker 3: to these reforms. 277 00:13:30,262 --> 00:13:36,062 Speaker 2: Well, some psychiatrists are expressing concern over it. I don't 278 00:13:36,102 --> 00:13:38,542 Speaker 2: want to be cynical, but I might not find that 279 00:13:38,542 --> 00:13:41,262 Speaker 2: that surprising because if the psychiatrists are at the moment 280 00:13:41,302 --> 00:13:43,182 Speaker 2: the only people who can do it, and suddenly they 281 00:13:43,222 --> 00:13:45,062 Speaker 2: won't be, they may have a little bit of a 282 00:13:45,942 --> 00:13:49,302 Speaker 2: territorials Yeah, claim about that, but I'm not obviously saying 283 00:13:49,342 --> 00:13:53,222 Speaker 2: that about all psychiatrists. But Dr Patrick mcgury, for example, 284 00:13:53,702 --> 00:13:55,542 Speaker 2: wrote an op ed about it a few weeks ago 285 00:13:55,622 --> 00:13:58,622 Speaker 2: actually when it was just being proposed, saying that he 286 00:13:58,702 --> 00:14:02,382 Speaker 2: really worried it would worsen an over prescription because as 287 00:14:02,422 --> 00:14:06,622 Speaker 2: we know, prescribing of ADHD meds has tripled in the 288 00:14:06,662 --> 00:14:10,702 Speaker 2: past ten years, like it's skyrocketing forever. Write of complicated reasons. 289 00:14:10,742 --> 00:14:13,342 Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be surprising if anyone listening right now didn't 290 00:14:13,382 --> 00:14:15,702 Speaker 1: know someone who had it or had been diagnosed in 291 00:14:15,742 --> 00:14:16,502 Speaker 1: the last few years. 292 00:14:17,582 --> 00:14:22,182 Speaker 2: So he's worried that it will become overprescribed. But gps 293 00:14:22,422 --> 00:14:26,222 Speaker 2: are broadly welcoming it, So the College of General Practitioners 294 00:14:26,542 --> 00:14:29,142 Speaker 2: are saying that it will have life changing impacts when 295 00:14:29,182 --> 00:14:32,542 Speaker 2: it comes to accessing timely and affordable ADHD care for 296 00:14:32,582 --> 00:14:35,662 Speaker 2: families across the state. Now, I don't want to offer 297 00:14:35,702 --> 00:14:38,622 Speaker 2: opinions about medical matters. I don't know enough about it. 298 00:14:38,662 --> 00:14:43,062 Speaker 2: In the diagnostic space. But in my personal experience, it 299 00:14:43,142 --> 00:14:45,742 Speaker 2: would be life changing for a GP to be able 300 00:14:45,782 --> 00:14:49,782 Speaker 2: to prescribe this kind of medication because my child was 301 00:14:49,822 --> 00:14:52,022 Speaker 2: diagnosed when we lived in the city and we were 302 00:14:52,702 --> 00:14:54,382 Speaker 2: on a waiting list. And also you just have to 303 00:14:54,422 --> 00:14:57,102 Speaker 2: take whoever you can get in the pediatric space who 304 00:14:57,182 --> 00:14:59,462 Speaker 2: can do it, which I'm sure they're all qualified and 305 00:14:59,462 --> 00:15:02,582 Speaker 2: it's fine, but so you're on a very long waiting list, 306 00:15:02,582 --> 00:15:05,222 Speaker 2: then you go through a very difficult and long procedure 307 00:15:05,262 --> 00:15:08,182 Speaker 2: to get your prescription. And then when we moved from 308 00:15:08,182 --> 00:15:11,182 Speaker 2: the city to the regions, all the waiting lists were 309 00:15:11,222 --> 00:15:13,382 Speaker 2: more on the year long. And so you don't want 310 00:15:13,422 --> 00:15:16,222 Speaker 2: to let go of your city pediatrician, which is you 311 00:15:16,302 --> 00:15:18,502 Speaker 2: know you mentioned in the Introjessea woman from the mid 312 00:15:18,502 --> 00:15:20,862 Speaker 2: North Coast in this eight hour trip. You don't want 313 00:15:20,862 --> 00:15:22,542 Speaker 2: to let go of that person in the city, So 314 00:15:22,582 --> 00:15:24,462 Speaker 2: you're kind of plogging up their books in a way 315 00:15:24,502 --> 00:15:26,862 Speaker 2: while you wait to get into this person in your region. 316 00:15:27,182 --> 00:15:30,022 Speaker 2: And also you can't be in any way choosy about 317 00:15:30,022 --> 00:15:32,302 Speaker 2: the person in your region. You just whoever's got their 318 00:15:32,302 --> 00:15:34,302 Speaker 2: books open and whoever can do it, whether they like 319 00:15:34,382 --> 00:15:37,862 Speaker 2: it or not. And some pediatricians for very good reasons, 320 00:15:38,542 --> 00:15:42,782 Speaker 2: will have their own opinions about whether or not ADHD 321 00:15:42,862 --> 00:15:44,982 Speaker 2: meds are being over prescribed, so you might have to 322 00:15:44,982 --> 00:15:47,782 Speaker 2: go through another procedure to sort of prove yourself again. 323 00:15:47,982 --> 00:15:52,222 Speaker 2: I understand that. But if once my child was diagnosed, 324 00:15:52,262 --> 00:15:55,622 Speaker 2: we could just refill the medication at the GP, it 325 00:15:55,662 --> 00:15:58,942 Speaker 2: would save time, it would save money, it would just 326 00:15:59,022 --> 00:16:02,502 Speaker 2: be a lot easier. But what I don't know, because 327 00:16:02,502 --> 00:16:04,422 Speaker 2: I'm not an expert, so I don't want to make 328 00:16:04,742 --> 00:16:06,662 Speaker 2: you know blanket claims is I don't know if it 329 00:16:06,662 --> 00:16:08,582 Speaker 2: would be a thorough I don't know that. From my 330 00:16:08,662 --> 00:16:11,262 Speaker 2: personal experience, I can see why this would be a 331 00:16:11,302 --> 00:16:12,942 Speaker 2: desirable shift. What do you think. 332 00:16:13,462 --> 00:16:16,222 Speaker 3: I've read a bit by Patrick mcgurray, who is a 333 00:16:16,222 --> 00:16:18,662 Speaker 3: psychiatrist and former Australian of the Year. He does a 334 00:16:18,702 --> 00:16:22,622 Speaker 3: lot with youth mental health and his op ed that 335 00:16:22,702 --> 00:16:25,702 Speaker 3: he wrote was really interesting because a lot of people 336 00:16:25,742 --> 00:16:30,462 Speaker 3: talked about his point about over prescribing, but in fact 337 00:16:30,502 --> 00:16:32,982 Speaker 3: he's got more of a focus on what he calls 338 00:16:33,022 --> 00:16:38,142 Speaker 3: inappropriate diagnosis, where he says we've got underdiagnosis and overdiagnosis. 339 00:16:38,222 --> 00:16:41,182 Speaker 3: So the people who really really need it, like people 340 00:16:41,262 --> 00:16:43,982 Speaker 3: in the regions, like kids, who can't get into the 341 00:16:44,222 --> 00:16:48,022 Speaker 3: pediatrician are suffering, while you've got other people who, he says, 342 00:16:48,062 --> 00:16:52,782 Speaker 3: aren't meeting the criteria. And his concern and again none 343 00:16:52,822 --> 00:16:54,942 Speaker 3: of us are experts, but he's a voice I feel 344 00:16:54,942 --> 00:16:57,862 Speaker 3: like is interesting in this space. His concern is that 345 00:16:57,942 --> 00:17:01,942 Speaker 3: ADHD symptoms crossover with a lot of other complex mental 346 00:17:01,942 --> 00:17:05,702 Speaker 3: health disorders, so you would want those gps to be 347 00:17:05,982 --> 00:17:08,822 Speaker 3: specialized in actually a number of things so that when 348 00:17:08,862 --> 00:17:11,341 Speaker 3: someone comes to you, He says, this thing where you 349 00:17:11,462 --> 00:17:14,501 Speaker 3: come seeking a diagnosis is new. Where you sit there 350 00:17:14,581 --> 00:17:17,101 Speaker 3: and you go, I have ADHD and I want my 351 00:17:17,141 --> 00:17:23,262 Speaker 3: medication is almost a transactional consumerist model that he's sort 352 00:17:23,262 --> 00:17:26,302 Speaker 3: of blowing the whistle on and going, what we don't 353 00:17:26,381 --> 00:17:30,982 Speaker 3: want is any medication, like medication I take, has side effects, 354 00:17:31,341 --> 00:17:33,742 Speaker 3: So we don't want someone to have those side effects 355 00:17:33,861 --> 00:17:37,182 Speaker 3: or to have negative impacts if that's not the correct diagnosis. 356 00:17:37,222 --> 00:17:41,302 Speaker 2: And is this all about We've discussed before social media 357 00:17:41,341 --> 00:17:43,181 Speaker 2: and in a way the fact that now there is 358 00:17:43,262 --> 00:17:46,902 Speaker 2: so much information out there and people diagnosing themselves and others, 359 00:17:47,302 --> 00:17:50,261 Speaker 2: and not only with ADHD, but anxiety or whatever. So 360 00:17:50,502 --> 00:17:52,902 Speaker 2: when you say people are going into a medical professional 361 00:17:52,942 --> 00:17:54,821 Speaker 2: and saying, I have this, give me my meds. It's 362 00:17:54,821 --> 00:17:58,181 Speaker 2: because they've ticked all the boxes on that wanting to 363 00:17:58,182 --> 00:18:00,942 Speaker 2: be flippant, they've ticked all the boxes on Instagram. 364 00:18:00,542 --> 00:18:01,782 Speaker 1: Or and it's social. 365 00:18:01,861 --> 00:18:04,502 Speaker 3: But he talks about contagion even more broadly than that, 366 00:18:04,502 --> 00:18:06,542 Speaker 3: that it is something that you're hearing about and we've 367 00:18:06,621 --> 00:18:08,342 Speaker 3: talked about it. I saw a TikTok the other day 368 00:18:08,341 --> 00:18:10,381 Speaker 3: that said, if you often find that you're putting your 369 00:18:10,422 --> 00:18:12,421 Speaker 3: leg up on a couch, then that could be a 370 00:18:12,462 --> 00:18:16,821 Speaker 3: sign and psychiatrist will go it's like a spectrum, like 371 00:18:16,901 --> 00:18:20,302 Speaker 3: same as hypertension or blood pressure or whatever, where people 372 00:18:20,302 --> 00:18:22,661 Speaker 3: will sit on it. But something being a diagnosis is 373 00:18:22,661 --> 00:18:26,061 Speaker 3: how it impacts your life. So he has just kind 374 00:18:26,061 --> 00:18:28,462 Speaker 3: of been reluctant, as has doctor Ian Hickey, who is 375 00:18:28,502 --> 00:18:31,022 Speaker 3: another really prominent voice. He was on the project last 376 00:18:31,061 --> 00:18:33,581 Speaker 3: night talking about it and just saying he's a bit 377 00:18:33,621 --> 00:18:38,542 Speaker 3: worried about the inappropriate prescribing and inadequate assessment, because when 378 00:18:38,581 --> 00:18:41,982 Speaker 3: you get an ADHD diagnosis, you want a full history. 379 00:18:42,462 --> 00:18:44,181 Speaker 3: I mean, the irony of all of this is that 380 00:18:44,222 --> 00:18:47,662 Speaker 3: some people who are seeing pediatricians and seeing psychiatrists, they're 381 00:18:47,661 --> 00:18:50,101 Speaker 3: not doing the full thing. Because they're so busy that 382 00:18:50,141 --> 00:18:52,982 Speaker 3: they don't have that kind of capacity. 383 00:18:52,661 --> 00:18:54,621 Speaker 1: Saying I had to jump through a lot of hoops 384 00:18:54,661 --> 00:18:58,302 Speaker 1: sounds flipped. But before my diagnosis, I had to go 385 00:18:58,581 --> 00:19:03,101 Speaker 1: through a lot of sort of checkpoints. And it wasn't 386 00:19:03,182 --> 00:19:06,901 Speaker 1: just a simple oh yeah, here's a checklist, take no ye. 387 00:19:07,262 --> 00:19:10,942 Speaker 1: And in fact, I got diagnosed by cologist who specializes, 388 00:19:10,982 --> 00:19:13,462 Speaker 1: but she wasn't able to prescribe medication, and I just 389 00:19:13,502 --> 00:19:16,142 Speaker 1: assumed that my GP could once I had a diagnosis. 390 00:19:16,182 --> 00:19:18,421 Speaker 1: But then I had to start the process again with 391 00:19:18,502 --> 00:19:21,742 Speaker 1: a psychiatrist that took a lot longer to get into. 392 00:19:22,222 --> 00:19:25,581 Speaker 1: Because it's important to understand that ADHD meds are very 393 00:19:25,702 --> 00:19:28,902 Speaker 1: very tightly controlled. They're among the most tightly controlled drugs 394 00:19:29,462 --> 00:19:32,102 Speaker 1: that you can be prescribed. You're not allowed to get 395 00:19:32,141 --> 00:19:35,621 Speaker 1: your script more than a day or two before it's due. 396 00:19:36,182 --> 00:19:41,702 Speaker 1: It's very strict and that's designed to protect people and 397 00:19:41,782 --> 00:19:45,182 Speaker 1: to make sure the medication is not being misused. So look, 398 00:19:45,222 --> 00:19:48,621 Speaker 1: I don't feel equipped to really have any opinions about 399 00:19:48,661 --> 00:19:51,542 Speaker 1: it because I've got my diagnosis and I've got my medication, 400 00:19:51,782 --> 00:19:55,742 Speaker 1: and it's really easy to have views about it from 401 00:19:55,901 --> 00:19:59,381 Speaker 1: this side of the fence. I share all the concerns 402 00:19:59,462 --> 00:20:03,661 Speaker 1: that have been flagged. And I also know what it 403 00:20:03,702 --> 00:20:05,381 Speaker 1: can be like to be on a waiting list or 404 00:20:05,381 --> 00:20:07,421 Speaker 1: not be able to afford to see someone. You know, 405 00:20:07,462 --> 00:20:08,901 Speaker 1: I've got a lot of people in my life. I've 406 00:20:09,101 --> 00:20:11,782 Speaker 1: been helped many of them through it. If your life 407 00:20:11,821 --> 00:20:15,302 Speaker 1: is unmanageable because you have not been diagnosed and medicated, 408 00:20:15,861 --> 00:20:17,222 Speaker 1: it's really unmanageable. 409 00:20:17,341 --> 00:20:20,222 Speaker 3: Yeah, and a lot of pediatricians have said it can 410 00:20:20,302 --> 00:20:22,381 Speaker 3: impact if you're waiting a year, what can happen in 411 00:20:22,422 --> 00:20:25,101 Speaker 3: that year in terms of development, in terms of schoolwork, 412 00:20:25,141 --> 00:20:27,581 Speaker 3: in terms of like that can be a really distressing 413 00:20:27,621 --> 00:20:30,141 Speaker 3: year and it can have developmental impacts if that person 414 00:20:30,141 --> 00:20:30,981 Speaker 3: can't get the help they need. 415 00:20:31,061 --> 00:20:33,181 Speaker 1: It's true. And I also understand people who are like, 416 00:20:33,782 --> 00:20:36,901 Speaker 1: why is half my kids class on ADHD meds? I 417 00:20:36,982 --> 00:20:37,622 Speaker 1: also get that. 418 00:20:38,422 --> 00:20:41,381 Speaker 2: In a moment, what the French president has said about 419 00:20:41,381 --> 00:20:47,302 Speaker 2: his wife shoving him right in the face. Did we 420 00:20:47,381 --> 00:20:50,901 Speaker 2: all see the video of what happened between the French 421 00:20:51,061 --> 00:20:54,502 Speaker 2: president Macron and his wife at the open door of 422 00:20:54,502 --> 00:20:55,901 Speaker 2: a plane in Vietnam this week? 423 00:20:55,982 --> 00:20:57,542 Speaker 3: I could talk about this for one year. 424 00:20:58,101 --> 00:20:59,381 Speaker 1: So I've been thinking about. 425 00:20:59,661 --> 00:21:03,661 Speaker 2: If you didn't cameras were focused on Macran he landed 426 00:21:03,742 --> 00:21:06,181 Speaker 2: in Hanoi, and they were focused on the door of 427 00:21:06,182 --> 00:21:08,221 Speaker 2: the plane. You've seen these shots a million times, like 428 00:21:08,262 --> 00:21:10,942 Speaker 2: Head of State walks off play and walks downstairs, right, 429 00:21:11,702 --> 00:21:14,821 Speaker 2: But in the split second between you know, the door 430 00:21:14,861 --> 00:21:17,621 Speaker 2: opening and Macron stepping into what was supposed to be 431 00:21:17,661 --> 00:21:21,101 Speaker 2: the camera frame, you see these two hands in this 432 00:21:21,262 --> 00:21:24,621 Speaker 2: red pink coat like pushing him right in the face, 433 00:21:24,821 --> 00:21:28,782 Speaker 2: in the face, very shocking, very quick, very sudden. And 434 00:21:28,821 --> 00:21:31,581 Speaker 2: then you see Macron gathering himself quite quickly. 435 00:21:31,462 --> 00:21:33,342 Speaker 1: When he realizes that the plane doors open. 436 00:21:33,341 --> 00:21:36,542 Speaker 2: Yep, and like doing his royal wave and walking down 437 00:21:36,581 --> 00:21:37,102 Speaker 2: the stairs. 438 00:21:37,141 --> 00:21:40,061 Speaker 3: What it looked like was that he was shocked at 439 00:21:40,061 --> 00:21:42,262 Speaker 3: what had happened. He was engaging with that situation. And 440 00:21:42,262 --> 00:21:44,782 Speaker 3: then there's a moment and I'm projecting this. I wasn't there, 441 00:21:45,061 --> 00:21:47,661 Speaker 3: but it's as though he looks to see if the 442 00:21:47,661 --> 00:21:50,222 Speaker 3: cameras are on him, and he kind of clocks it 443 00:21:50,302 --> 00:21:52,582 Speaker 3: and goes, I've got to acknowledge the cameras. 444 00:21:53,782 --> 00:21:56,702 Speaker 2: Then, of course, his wife Brigitte walks down the stairs 445 00:21:56,742 --> 00:21:59,461 Speaker 2: behind him, wearing the coat, so we know that the 446 00:21:59,502 --> 00:22:04,022 Speaker 2: hands were hers. This footage spun around the world in seconds, 447 00:22:04,101 --> 00:22:06,621 Speaker 2: and it took about twenty four hours, I think, for 448 00:22:06,661 --> 00:22:08,981 Speaker 2: the President to work out how to respond. At first 449 00:22:09,022 --> 00:22:12,821 Speaker 2: the line would fake news didn't happen, but by today 450 00:22:13,061 --> 00:22:15,901 Speaker 2: it was a joke. Mi chron said, my wife and 451 00:22:15,982 --> 00:22:18,941 Speaker 2: I were squabbling. We were rather joking, and I was 452 00:22:19,022 --> 00:22:23,061 Speaker 2: taken by surprise. It's become a kind of planetary catastrophe, 453 00:22:23,381 --> 00:22:26,101 Speaker 2: and some are even coming up with theories. Have you 454 00:22:26,222 --> 00:22:29,381 Speaker 2: two seen these theories? And what do we think is 455 00:22:29,381 --> 00:22:33,262 Speaker 2: an appropriate response to something like this being caught on camera, 456 00:22:33,262 --> 00:22:36,181 Speaker 2: because I can't think of very many examples of it 457 00:22:36,222 --> 00:22:36,901 Speaker 2: happening before. 458 00:22:37,061 --> 00:22:40,182 Speaker 1: Well, imagine if the genders had been reversed, it would 459 00:22:40,182 --> 00:22:42,421 Speaker 1: have been a very different story for a lot of 460 00:22:42,702 --> 00:22:45,622 Speaker 1: very understandable reasons. So I don't think you can always 461 00:22:46,222 --> 00:22:50,901 Speaker 1: apply that equivalency. But I think we have no choice 462 00:22:50,901 --> 00:22:53,901 Speaker 1: but to take him at his word. I mean, what 463 00:22:54,022 --> 00:22:57,141 Speaker 1: can you do if he says that we can't say 464 00:22:57,542 --> 00:22:59,901 Speaker 1: it was something other than what he says it was, 465 00:22:59,942 --> 00:23:01,542 Speaker 1: which is just mucking around. 466 00:23:01,422 --> 00:23:04,022 Speaker 3: And can we say what we think we saw? Because 467 00:23:04,061 --> 00:23:07,261 Speaker 3: it looks pretty damning from my I went and watched it, 468 00:23:07,302 --> 00:23:09,181 Speaker 3: and as always happens, you get the commentary before you 469 00:23:09,182 --> 00:23:10,822 Speaker 3: watch it. But it does look damning. 470 00:23:11,022 --> 00:23:12,742 Speaker 1: It looks as it doesn't look like joking around. 471 00:23:12,782 --> 00:23:13,821 Speaker 3: It doesn't look like joking around. 472 00:23:13,821 --> 00:23:16,341 Speaker 2: So the other thing that complicates it, right, is that 473 00:23:16,581 --> 00:23:19,302 Speaker 2: there's a big corner of the Internet who hate Macron 474 00:23:19,381 --> 00:23:22,622 Speaker 2: and constantly spread theories about him and his wife. Right, 475 00:23:22,661 --> 00:23:24,942 Speaker 2: because he and his wife have I think we can 476 00:23:25,022 --> 00:23:27,101 Speaker 2: say unconventional history. 477 00:23:27,222 --> 00:23:29,621 Speaker 1: Remind me, Brigitte. 478 00:23:28,942 --> 00:23:34,102 Speaker 2: Is seventy two and Macron is forty seven. Exactly how 479 00:23:34,141 --> 00:23:35,901 Speaker 2: it all went down, we don't know. But we do 480 00:23:36,022 --> 00:23:38,262 Speaker 2: know that they met when he was fifteen and she 481 00:23:38,422 --> 00:23:39,182 Speaker 2: was thirty nine. 482 00:23:39,341 --> 00:23:39,941 Speaker 3: Here's what we do. 483 00:23:40,061 --> 00:23:41,461 Speaker 1: No, wait, was she his teacher? 484 00:23:41,661 --> 00:23:44,702 Speaker 3: Yes, so she had three children and was married when 485 00:23:44,742 --> 00:23:48,102 Speaker 3: she met Emmanuel Macron who was fifteen and in her 486 00:23:48,222 --> 00:23:53,302 Speaker 3: daughter's class. And Emmanuel Macron's parents thought that he was 487 00:23:53,341 --> 00:23:56,341 Speaker 3: seeing the daughter, that there was a relationship going on, 488 00:23:56,702 --> 00:23:58,621 Speaker 3: and then they have found they've spoken in this book 489 00:23:58,861 --> 00:24:01,341 Speaker 3: where they then found out that it wasn't that he 490 00:24:01,542 --> 00:24:02,302 Speaker 3: was seeing this. 491 00:24:02,381 --> 00:24:04,861 Speaker 1: The woman who of his classmate. 492 00:24:04,502 --> 00:24:07,581 Speaker 3: Of his the mother of his classmate, and she has 493 00:24:07,621 --> 00:24:11,621 Speaker 3: said basically when things started and when their relationships started, 494 00:24:11,621 --> 00:24:13,022 Speaker 3: and when they knew it was special, is not for 495 00:24:13,061 --> 00:24:15,181 Speaker 3: anyone else to know they haven't shared that. 496 00:24:15,462 --> 00:24:18,901 Speaker 1: It's very Mary Kay Laturno and Villie Flower. Remember, I 497 00:24:18,982 --> 00:24:22,502 Speaker 1: mean he was twelve, but she was I think his 498 00:24:22,661 --> 00:24:25,381 Speaker 1: teacher or worked at his school or something. And she 499 00:24:25,502 --> 00:24:27,901 Speaker 1: ended up going to jail but had children with him, 500 00:24:27,901 --> 00:24:30,022 Speaker 1: and they ended up after she got released from jail, 501 00:24:30,061 --> 00:24:30,661 Speaker 1: they got married. 502 00:24:30,742 --> 00:24:33,422 Speaker 3: So I was thinking about the age gap is similar 503 00:24:33,462 --> 00:24:39,142 Speaker 3: to if Anthony ALBERIZI had a wife who was my age, right, 504 00:24:39,222 --> 00:24:42,581 Speaker 3: that's probably like a similar age gap and age gaps whatever. 505 00:24:42,661 --> 00:24:44,901 Speaker 3: I think that the part about this story that troubles 506 00:24:44,942 --> 00:24:46,502 Speaker 3: people is how old they were when they met. 507 00:24:46,702 --> 00:24:48,181 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the bit that troubles people. 508 00:24:48,182 --> 00:24:50,982 Speaker 2: They have been together for decades and decades now though, 509 00:24:51,061 --> 00:24:54,622 Speaker 2: right the people who were very invested in the conspiracy 510 00:24:54,661 --> 00:24:58,302 Speaker 2: theories because they are always everywhere. They also like to 511 00:24:58,341 --> 00:25:01,381 Speaker 2: spread the rumor that she is transgender, which appears to 512 00:25:01,422 --> 00:25:03,861 Speaker 2: be entirely false. They like to spread rumors like the 513 00:25:03,861 --> 00:25:06,061 Speaker 2: fact that they say he was doing cocon of train 514 00:25:06,141 --> 00:25:08,381 Speaker 2: earlier this year. Did you see that there was a 515 00:25:08,502 --> 00:25:10,982 Speaker 2: video of him on a train with the German Chancellor 516 00:25:11,222 --> 00:25:13,421 Speaker 2: and the UK Prime Minister and he was picking up 517 00:25:13,462 --> 00:25:15,782 Speaker 2: a tissue. But there's a large section of the internet 518 00:25:15,782 --> 00:25:19,101 Speaker 2: who believes it was a bag of white powder. Broadly, 519 00:25:19,141 --> 00:25:23,181 Speaker 2: they like to paint him as a sort of short, inauthentic, 520 00:25:23,302 --> 00:25:26,702 Speaker 2: girly man like in direct contrast to say, a tall 521 00:25:26,901 --> 00:25:30,861 Speaker 2: alpha like one Donald Trump. The theory of why these 522 00:25:30,901 --> 00:25:33,341 Speaker 2: conspiracy theories go so fast is broadly because of his 523 00:25:33,542 --> 00:25:35,821 Speaker 2: very strong support of Ukraine and criticism of Russia. 524 00:25:35,901 --> 00:25:36,021 Speaker 1: Right. 525 00:25:36,061 --> 00:25:39,022 Speaker 2: So there are lots of people on the Internet who 526 00:25:39,222 --> 00:25:42,142 Speaker 2: love to spin the macron theory. And that's why if 527 00:25:42,182 --> 00:25:44,581 Speaker 2: you've seen memes and videos of this go around fast, 528 00:25:44,581 --> 00:25:47,262 Speaker 2: a lot of them say things like gurly Man gets slapped, 529 00:25:47,302 --> 00:25:49,022 Speaker 2: and you know they're because the. 530 00:25:49,022 --> 00:25:52,181 Speaker 1: Problem with this so it's the Russian bot farms. It is, 531 00:25:52,262 --> 00:25:53,821 Speaker 1: and that's what he has seen it. 532 00:25:53,821 --> 00:25:56,621 Speaker 2: It's in the Russian bot farms. But the problem is 533 00:25:56,901 --> 00:26:01,742 Speaker 2: this video is rare, so it doesn't help the conspiracy theories, 534 00:26:01,742 --> 00:26:03,861 Speaker 2: which I'm not suggesting any of them are true at all, 535 00:26:03,901 --> 00:26:06,422 Speaker 2: But this is one of those situations where something happens 536 00:26:06,782 --> 00:26:10,422 Speaker 2: that falls deliciously almost into the hands of the people 537 00:26:10,462 --> 00:26:12,222 Speaker 2: who want to believe these things about him. 538 00:26:12,302 --> 00:26:15,861 Speaker 1: Anyway, But isn't not all those conspiracy theories, That's not 539 00:26:15,901 --> 00:26:18,781 Speaker 1: what this relates to. Like, the worst reading of this 540 00:26:18,982 --> 00:26:22,382 Speaker 1: is that it was DV, that it's somehow an abusive relationship. 541 00:26:22,422 --> 00:26:25,942 Speaker 1: Now we don't know what happened just before the door opened, 542 00:26:26,061 --> 00:26:28,462 Speaker 1: and also what he said might be true. They might 543 00:26:28,462 --> 00:26:29,621 Speaker 1: have just been mucking around. 544 00:26:30,381 --> 00:26:33,381 Speaker 3: No way, and he has said in his statement, and 545 00:26:33,422 --> 00:26:35,782 Speaker 3: I actually really respect this position. Is he came out 546 00:26:35,821 --> 00:26:38,182 Speaker 3: and said that video is real. He could have said 547 00:26:38,182 --> 00:26:39,542 Speaker 3: it was fair. If it was Donald Trump, he'd have 548 00:26:39,542 --> 00:26:42,901 Speaker 3: said it was fake. You denied, yeah, but he's gone, 549 00:26:42,901 --> 00:26:44,661 Speaker 3: that was real. And the video where you thought me 550 00:26:44,702 --> 00:26:47,421 Speaker 3: doing cocaine is real. It was actually a tissue. And 551 00:26:47,621 --> 00:26:50,861 Speaker 3: just I have detractors who were really uncomfortable with my 552 00:26:50,901 --> 00:26:54,061 Speaker 3: relationship with Zelenski and my support of Ukraine. And this 553 00:26:54,101 --> 00:26:57,341 Speaker 3: is the Internet going into overdrive. But the way that 554 00:26:57,502 --> 00:27:02,101 Speaker 3: it has now been narrativized or positioned is saying this 555 00:27:02,141 --> 00:27:04,782 Speaker 3: is humiliating for France. Look how weak France is. 556 00:27:04,861 --> 00:27:08,542 Speaker 2: Yes, emasculated, that's what all of this is about, right, 557 00:27:08,702 --> 00:27:10,661 Speaker 2: It's not what that video was about. But all of 558 00:27:10,702 --> 00:27:14,902 Speaker 2: the conspiracy theory stuff is about that. It's about emasculating him, 559 00:27:15,022 --> 00:27:18,741 Speaker 2: which is the narrative about this bossy older wife who 560 00:27:18,901 --> 00:27:21,742 Speaker 2: may or maybe not abuses him, and it is possibly 561 00:27:21,782 --> 00:27:24,421 Speaker 2: even not even who she says she is, and all 562 00:27:24,462 --> 00:27:26,982 Speaker 2: of these things, and look how weak and pathetic France is. 563 00:27:27,621 --> 00:27:30,782 Speaker 2: The problem is is this video being real really doesn't 564 00:27:30,821 --> 00:27:32,741 Speaker 2: help any of that stuff, and he is going to 565 00:27:32,742 --> 00:27:33,382 Speaker 2: be in real. 566 00:27:33,222 --> 00:27:37,581 Speaker 3: Trouble, which tells us something about how we view men 567 00:27:38,022 --> 00:27:41,102 Speaker 3: who experience violence at the hands of their female partners, 568 00:27:41,182 --> 00:27:44,061 Speaker 3: which is that it has been made fun of, it 569 00:27:44,101 --> 00:27:46,462 Speaker 3: has been undermined, it has been an example of how 570 00:27:46,502 --> 00:27:50,062 Speaker 3: he's not man enough. There's no way that the undercurrent 571 00:27:50,141 --> 00:27:53,141 Speaker 3: of like making fun of him would exist if this 572 00:27:53,422 --> 00:27:55,621 Speaker 3: were the other way around, which I think is really 573 00:27:55,742 --> 00:27:59,702 Speaker 3: sad and troubling. After the break, the real life story 574 00:27:59,782 --> 00:28:04,782 Speaker 3: of the woman being kept alive to incubate her unborn child. 575 00:28:06,621 --> 00:28:10,341 Speaker 2: One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday 576 00:28:10,381 --> 00:28:14,462 Speaker 2: and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link 577 00:28:14,502 --> 00:28:16,181 Speaker 2: in the show notes to get us in your ears 578 00:28:16,502 --> 00:28:19,221 Speaker 2: five days a week, and a huge thank you to 579 00:28:19,422 --> 00:28:26,502 Speaker 2: all our current subscribers. 580 00:28:28,222 --> 00:28:31,061 Speaker 1: There's a story coming out of the US that is 581 00:28:31,182 --> 00:28:34,661 Speaker 1: raising a lot of questions around not just abortion laws, 582 00:28:34,861 --> 00:28:38,822 Speaker 1: but around the ethics and what you believe constitutes human life. 583 00:28:39,022 --> 00:28:42,462 Speaker 1: Three months ago, a woman called Adrianna Smith. She's a 584 00:28:42,502 --> 00:28:45,662 Speaker 1: thirty year old nurse and a mother from Atlanta, Georgia. 585 00:28:46,102 --> 00:28:49,221 Speaker 1: She was experiencing severe headaches and she was nine weeks 586 00:28:49,222 --> 00:28:51,862 Speaker 1: pregnant at the time. This is back in February. She 587 00:28:51,942 --> 00:28:54,702 Speaker 1: was discharged after she turned up at hospital and sent 588 00:28:54,742 --> 00:28:57,702 Speaker 1: home without scans, and her boyfriend found her the next 589 00:28:57,782 --> 00:29:02,422 Speaker 1: day collapsed, rushed her back to hospital and she had 590 00:29:02,542 --> 00:29:05,222 Speaker 1: blood clots in her brain and she was declared brain dead. 591 00:29:05,862 --> 00:29:07,701 Speaker 1: As I said, she has a boyfriend and also a 592 00:29:07,782 --> 00:29:08,742 Speaker 1: seven year old son. 593 00:29:09,742 --> 00:29:10,022 Speaker 2: Now. 594 00:29:10,142 --> 00:29:13,542 Speaker 1: In Georgia, there's something called the Life Act which came 595 00:29:13,582 --> 00:29:16,942 Speaker 1: into effect in twenty nineteen, and it bans all abortions 596 00:29:16,982 --> 00:29:20,142 Speaker 1: after six weeks, except in the case of rape, incest, 597 00:29:20,542 --> 00:29:24,022 Speaker 1: or maternal life endangerment, and there is no exception for 598 00:29:24,142 --> 00:29:29,462 Speaker 1: brain dead patients. So now Adriana since that day has 599 00:29:29,502 --> 00:29:32,542 Speaker 1: been on life support at Emory University Hospital. It's been 600 00:29:32,582 --> 00:29:35,302 Speaker 1: three months so far. The fetus is now twenty three 601 00:29:35,342 --> 00:29:40,021 Speaker 1: weeks and doctors plan to keep her there essentially as 602 00:29:40,022 --> 00:29:44,462 Speaker 1: a human incubator, until she has reached thirty two weeks gestation, 603 00:29:44,982 --> 00:29:48,302 Speaker 1: at which time they feel they can probably birth the 604 00:29:48,342 --> 00:29:52,782 Speaker 1: baby via cesarian section, and her family will then be 605 00:29:52,862 --> 00:29:55,102 Speaker 1: left to choose what to do with her. 606 00:29:55,462 --> 00:29:57,662 Speaker 2: This is because when she went in there, they could 607 00:29:57,742 --> 00:30:00,542 Speaker 2: detect that the baby had a heartbeat, and so it 608 00:30:00,622 --> 00:30:03,862 Speaker 2: was against the law correct to curatically turn off her. 609 00:30:03,862 --> 00:30:07,462 Speaker 3: Linda, what would happen in Australia, Like this sounds really 610 00:30:07,502 --> 00:30:09,902 Speaker 3: a really dumb question, but I had never can this 611 00:30:09,942 --> 00:30:10,782 Speaker 3: scenario before. 612 00:30:10,902 --> 00:30:15,702 Speaker 1: Yeah, this wouldn't happen in Australia, but the Georgia Attorney 613 00:30:15,702 --> 00:30:18,782 Speaker 1: General's Office claims that the law doesn't require life support 614 00:30:19,142 --> 00:30:22,782 Speaker 1: for brain dead patients if they're pregnant. But the hospitals 615 00:30:23,222 --> 00:30:26,382 Speaker 1: fear liability because there are a lot of groups who 616 00:30:26,822 --> 00:30:29,982 Speaker 1: will then use this and try to sue the hospital 617 00:30:30,382 --> 00:30:32,502 Speaker 1: and embroil them in a whole legal thing and try 618 00:30:32,542 --> 00:30:34,142 Speaker 1: to sue the doctors, and the doctors could go to 619 00:30:34,182 --> 00:30:37,142 Speaker 1: jail or the nurse or whoever it is literally unplugs 620 00:30:37,142 --> 00:30:39,661 Speaker 1: the machine could be charged with murder. 621 00:30:39,742 --> 00:30:41,461 Speaker 3: I wonder what the mother would have wanted, That's my 622 00:30:41,502 --> 00:30:42,022 Speaker 3: big question. 623 00:30:42,142 --> 00:30:45,342 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I also want to know what her family want. 624 00:30:45,502 --> 00:30:47,782 Speaker 2: I think that changes how I feel about this story. 625 00:30:48,182 --> 00:30:51,422 Speaker 2: Like if everybody involved is like, this is not what 626 00:30:51,422 --> 00:30:54,941 Speaker 2: she would have wanted. Then it's a different story in 627 00:30:54,982 --> 00:30:56,702 Speaker 2: a way to if her family is saying she would 628 00:30:56,742 --> 00:30:57,941 Speaker 2: have absolutely wanted this. 629 00:30:58,222 --> 00:31:00,661 Speaker 1: Nobody can know what she would have wanted because she 630 00:31:00,782 --> 00:31:04,222 Speaker 1: was an otherwise seemingly healthy thirty year old woman who 631 00:31:04,302 --> 00:31:08,142 Speaker 1: was newly pregnant. Her boyfriend was the father of that child. 632 00:31:08,502 --> 00:31:11,382 Speaker 1: He hasn't given a state yet. And this family actually 633 00:31:11,462 --> 00:31:14,902 Speaker 1: hasn't spoken much except for her mother, and she has 634 00:31:15,022 --> 00:31:19,942 Speaker 1: given very limited sort of commentary. But her name's April Newkirk, 635 00:31:20,142 --> 00:31:23,982 Speaker 1: and what she has said is that the family might 636 00:31:24,022 --> 00:31:26,902 Speaker 1: have continued the pregnancy, but they wanted the autonomy of 637 00:31:26,942 --> 00:31:30,022 Speaker 1: whether or not to do that. And she's in one 638 00:31:30,022 --> 00:31:32,902 Speaker 1: statement she's given, she said, it's torture for me. I 639 00:31:32,902 --> 00:31:35,622 Speaker 1: see my daughter breathing, but she's not there. We should 640 00:31:35,661 --> 00:31:38,461 Speaker 1: have had a choice. My grandson may be blind, he 641 00:31:38,502 --> 00:31:41,062 Speaker 1: may not be able to walk because the other thing 642 00:31:41,182 --> 00:31:43,942 Speaker 1: is that there've been complications with the fetus. There's been 643 00:31:43,982 --> 00:31:47,742 Speaker 1: fluid on the brain detected, potential blindness and mobility issues. 644 00:31:47,982 --> 00:31:51,782 Speaker 1: The hospital hasn't commented, and her mother has said, I'm 645 00:31:51,822 --> 00:31:53,902 Speaker 1: not suggesting we would have chosen to enter her pregnancy. 646 00:31:53,902 --> 00:31:56,981 Speaker 1: I'm emphasizing that we should have had the option. It 647 00:31:57,062 --> 00:31:59,342 Speaker 1: should have been left up to the family. 648 00:31:59,422 --> 00:32:03,622 Speaker 3: Of course, because even from nutrition to all of the 649 00:32:03,661 --> 00:32:08,421 Speaker 3: things that a fetus is able to absorb from a 650 00:32:08,502 --> 00:32:11,981 Speaker 3: mother like this woman isn't there Like I just I 651 00:32:12,022 --> 00:32:13,062 Speaker 3: had never considered this. 652 00:32:13,222 --> 00:32:17,262 Speaker 1: And the financial hardship placed on the family. So yeah, 653 00:32:17,302 --> 00:32:22,302 Speaker 1: what happens exactly? Her boyfriend and seven year old son 654 00:32:22,782 --> 00:32:25,181 Speaker 1: are coming to visit her every day. Now, how do 655 00:32:25,262 --> 00:32:28,302 Speaker 1: you explain to a seven year old And Adriana's mother 656 00:32:28,342 --> 00:32:29,941 Speaker 1: has said this, you know, he comes and he visits 657 00:32:29,942 --> 00:32:31,782 Speaker 1: his mother, but with no hope that she might recover. 658 00:32:32,022 --> 00:32:34,902 Speaker 1: Like it's done. She's not going to survive on her 659 00:32:34,942 --> 00:32:36,902 Speaker 1: own as soon as the tube is taken out. So 660 00:32:37,661 --> 00:32:41,902 Speaker 1: it's just the most handmade's tale type of story. And 661 00:32:41,942 --> 00:32:44,822 Speaker 1: this is the kind of thing that's happening in America 662 00:32:44,902 --> 00:32:49,342 Speaker 1: now since Roversus Wade was repealed, and these draconian laws 663 00:32:50,022 --> 00:32:52,461 Speaker 1: are being applied not in every state, but in a 664 00:32:52,542 --> 00:32:57,221 Speaker 1: lot of states. And it really sees a woman and 665 00:32:57,262 --> 00:33:01,421 Speaker 1: a woman's body as purely a vessel with no legal rights, 666 00:33:01,742 --> 00:33:05,181 Speaker 1: no autonomy, but just essentially a human incubator. 667 00:33:06,142 --> 00:33:08,302 Speaker 3: Before we go, do you too know much about the 668 00:33:08,422 --> 00:33:09,542 Speaker 3: enhanced games. 669 00:33:09,702 --> 00:33:11,822 Speaker 2: But I'm excited because they sound like they're better than 670 00:33:11,862 --> 00:33:12,622 Speaker 2: just normal games. 671 00:33:13,062 --> 00:33:17,422 Speaker 1: I saw a picture of James Magnuson the swimmer looking 672 00:33:17,622 --> 00:33:20,981 Speaker 1: like he'd been pumped up with a bicycle pump, like, 673 00:33:21,102 --> 00:33:23,181 Speaker 1: just looking so steroided up. 674 00:33:23,222 --> 00:33:27,462 Speaker 3: He essentially has. So the Enhanced Games is like the Olympics, 675 00:33:27,702 --> 00:33:30,342 Speaker 3: but for people who want to take all the drugs. 676 00:33:30,342 --> 00:33:34,062 Speaker 3: So it's the Olympics on steroids and literally ill on steroids. 677 00:33:34,102 --> 00:33:38,022 Speaker 3: And it's the brainchild of an Ossie businessman named Aaron Desuza, 678 00:33:38,582 --> 00:33:40,542 Speaker 3: and it is set to happen in May next year. 679 00:33:40,822 --> 00:33:42,741 Speaker 3: But the reason there are so many headlines about it 680 00:33:42,782 --> 00:33:46,382 Speaker 3: at the moment is because World Aquatics, so the like 681 00:33:46,422 --> 00:33:49,981 Speaker 3: swimming organization, has come out and said the event is 682 00:33:50,142 --> 00:33:53,942 Speaker 3: like clowns, jruggling knives is their quote, and they will 683 00:33:54,022 --> 00:33:58,542 Speaker 3: sanction athletes who compete even if they haven't used performance 684 00:33:58,622 --> 00:33:59,421 Speaker 3: enhancing drugs. 685 00:33:59,502 --> 00:34:02,662 Speaker 2: So are the athletes competing who aren't planning on using 686 00:34:02,661 --> 00:34:04,062 Speaker 2: performance enhancing drugs? 687 00:34:04,062 --> 00:34:07,022 Speaker 3: Well, James Magnuson, so he's an Ausi swimmer who has 688 00:34:07,022 --> 00:34:10,142 Speaker 3: competed in two Olympics, and he a few weeks ago 689 00:34:10,622 --> 00:34:13,902 Speaker 3: called out to Cam macavoy and Cam Macavoy is the 690 00:34:14,062 --> 00:34:16,661 Speaker 3: Aussie who won the fifty meters freestyle, so he's like 691 00:34:16,702 --> 00:34:18,102 Speaker 3: the world's fastest swimmers. 692 00:34:18,342 --> 00:34:20,582 Speaker 1: He's like a current Olympian, current Olympic champion. 693 00:34:20,701 --> 00:34:22,542 Speaker 3: Yeah, does not take drugs. And he did a call 694 00:34:22,582 --> 00:34:24,622 Speaker 3: out to Cam and said, I want you to compete 695 00:34:24,781 --> 00:34:25,701 Speaker 3: in the enhanced Game. 696 00:34:25,822 --> 00:34:29,502 Speaker 2: So the idea is like, I'm on loads of drugs, 697 00:34:30,022 --> 00:34:33,701 Speaker 2: you're on non Can these drugs make me faster than you? 698 00:34:34,221 --> 00:34:35,982 Speaker 2: That the idea of these games. 699 00:34:35,781 --> 00:34:38,902 Speaker 3: Yes, And also like we don't necessarily want everyone to 700 00:34:38,942 --> 00:34:40,982 Speaker 3: be on the drugs. What we want is to see 701 00:34:41,022 --> 00:34:43,341 Speaker 3: what happens if there is no drug testing, Like are 702 00:34:43,342 --> 00:34:44,861 Speaker 3: you still the world's fastest man? 703 00:34:45,382 --> 00:34:48,062 Speaker 1: Because in many ways, and I was reading that they've 704 00:34:48,302 --> 00:34:52,462 Speaker 1: been offering like millions of dollars to these current athletes. 705 00:34:52,542 --> 00:34:54,582 Speaker 3: They're talking like, I'll give you a million dollars Cam 706 00:34:54,781 --> 00:34:56,062 Speaker 3: to come and swim. 707 00:34:55,741 --> 00:34:57,701 Speaker 1: And you don't have to have to take drugs. What 708 00:34:57,862 --> 00:35:01,381 Speaker 1: the Olympic Federation is now saying is that even if 709 00:35:01,422 --> 00:35:03,781 Speaker 1: you compete and you're not taking any drugs and you 710 00:35:03,862 --> 00:35:07,341 Speaker 1: pass all the drug tests, you will still probably be 711 00:35:07,382 --> 00:35:10,421 Speaker 1: banned from future Olympic competition because you're bringing the sport 712 00:35:10,462 --> 00:35:13,462 Speaker 1: into disrepute because when you think about it, the enhanced 713 00:35:13,502 --> 00:35:18,861 Speaker 1: games need the undrugged athletes to lose or to win. 714 00:35:19,181 --> 00:35:21,902 Speaker 1: But otherwise it's not interesting. It's just drugs against drata. 715 00:35:21,902 --> 00:35:24,142 Speaker 2: They need to they need like a control. Yeah, this 716 00:35:24,302 --> 00:35:28,142 Speaker 2: is what I wonder, because I don't know anything about swimming. 717 00:35:28,701 --> 00:35:31,142 Speaker 2: Could I just take loads of steroids and be really, 718 00:35:31,221 --> 00:35:34,741 Speaker 2: really good in the point these people don't know. 719 00:35:35,221 --> 00:35:35,582 Speaker 1: I don't know. 720 00:35:35,582 --> 00:35:39,582 Speaker 3: They have to, but Hollywood also have to commit to 721 00:35:39,622 --> 00:35:42,822 Speaker 3: a training regime, I would say. And as it stands, 722 00:35:42,822 --> 00:35:44,941 Speaker 3: and this is early days, and obviously it hasn't happened yet, 723 00:35:45,102 --> 00:35:48,502 Speaker 3: but like you've not got roided up swimmers beating Cammack 724 00:35:48,542 --> 00:35:50,781 Speaker 3: a voice time, Like you don't have that yet. And 725 00:35:50,822 --> 00:35:53,941 Speaker 3: I guess it's a big experiment. But Ariane Tipmus came 726 00:35:53,982 --> 00:35:56,022 Speaker 3: out as well and said, not for ten million dollars 727 00:35:56,062 --> 00:35:56,742 Speaker 3: would I compete? 728 00:35:56,781 --> 00:35:59,261 Speaker 2: It's interesting because I would think if I was a 729 00:35:59,302 --> 00:36:01,261 Speaker 2: swimmer who still had a couple of Olympics in me, 730 00:36:01,302 --> 00:36:03,422 Speaker 2: I'd probably be like no. But if I was a 731 00:36:03,462 --> 00:36:07,222 Speaker 2: swimmer who probably was because they have a short competitive life, 732 00:36:07,542 --> 00:36:09,821 Speaker 2: and if I thought my last Olympics was behind, I 733 00:36:09,862 --> 00:36:10,701 Speaker 2: would take the money. 734 00:36:10,741 --> 00:36:13,301 Speaker 1: Wouldn't you. Well, it's a pretty degrading way to go 735 00:36:13,382 --> 00:36:15,861 Speaker 1: out because you know you're going to get smashed. You're 736 00:36:16,022 --> 00:36:19,301 Speaker 1: associated with what is essentially going to be a bit 737 00:36:19,342 --> 00:36:21,661 Speaker 1: of a freak show. Yeah, and that's why people are 738 00:36:21,661 --> 00:36:24,022 Speaker 1: going to tune in because it's going to be these 739 00:36:24,062 --> 00:36:30,462 Speaker 1: people with these very enormous malformed bodies from drugs competing 740 00:36:30,502 --> 00:36:32,742 Speaker 1: and it's going to be like watching a car craft. 741 00:36:32,741 --> 00:36:34,741 Speaker 3: Well, someone could die and that's the thing on. 742 00:36:34,902 --> 00:36:37,502 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're ruining all my fun, Jesse, I was excited 743 00:36:37,502 --> 00:36:39,102 Speaker 2: about the enhanced game, but like. 744 00:36:39,022 --> 00:36:41,381 Speaker 3: The impact that this stuff has on your heart and 745 00:36:41,462 --> 00:36:42,861 Speaker 3: like your body, like it's going to. 746 00:36:42,902 --> 00:36:46,022 Speaker 1: Be and your penis, yeah and have y. But is 747 00:36:46,062 --> 00:36:47,582 Speaker 1: it all sports or it's just swimming? 748 00:36:47,701 --> 00:36:49,462 Speaker 3: So it is a number of sports. I don't think 749 00:36:49,462 --> 00:36:51,422 Speaker 3: we know exactly how many are, but swimming has been 750 00:36:51,462 --> 00:36:56,062 Speaker 3: the focus because James Magnuson has been a public figure, 751 00:36:56,261 --> 00:36:57,982 Speaker 3: like the face of it, the face of it, And 752 00:36:58,181 --> 00:37:00,741 Speaker 3: you're right. So World Aquatics came out and said that 753 00:37:00,781 --> 00:37:05,102 Speaker 3: you're basically bound by an integrity code and you are 754 00:37:05,382 --> 00:37:08,821 Speaker 3: bringing the sports reputation into disrepute because you're kind of 755 00:37:08,822 --> 00:37:11,502 Speaker 3: giving validity to this thing that is going to be 756 00:37:11,542 --> 00:37:14,221 Speaker 3: held in Vegas and one of the biggest supporters is 757 00:37:14,302 --> 00:37:17,062 Speaker 3: Donald Trump Junior, so it's really well respected. 758 00:37:17,462 --> 00:37:23,582 Speaker 2: It's a big money making Yeah, Jaylo might perform. Yeah, 759 00:37:23,701 --> 00:37:28,302 Speaker 2: she'll be there swimming. She'd have the best costume. 760 00:37:28,542 --> 00:37:31,262 Speaker 1: Chris Joan is pretty enhanced. 761 00:37:31,462 --> 00:37:35,622 Speaker 2: She could be a face a free A massive thank 762 00:37:35,701 --> 00:37:37,741 Speaker 2: you to you out louders for being with us here 763 00:37:37,822 --> 00:37:40,622 Speaker 2: on today's show in our new home, and to our 764 00:37:40,622 --> 00:37:42,982 Speaker 2: fabulous team for putting it all together. We're going to 765 00:37:42,982 --> 00:37:44,062 Speaker 2: be back in your ears tomorrow. 766 00:37:44,302 --> 00:37:46,661 Speaker 3: Our Mummy out Loud newsletter, which a lot of you 767 00:37:46,701 --> 00:37:50,142 Speaker 3: subscribe to. We're in the process of relaunching. What happens 768 00:37:50,142 --> 00:37:50,742 Speaker 3: with the relaunch. 769 00:37:50,822 --> 00:37:52,622 Speaker 1: We're just getting up a few things, we're cooking up. 770 00:37:52,542 --> 00:37:53,861 Speaker 3: A few things. We're going to rest it for a 771 00:37:53,862 --> 00:37:56,182 Speaker 3: few weeks. We're doing some work behind the scenes. 772 00:37:56,221 --> 00:37:58,382 Speaker 1: Blah blah blah. It's got scaffolding all around. 773 00:37:58,181 --> 00:38:00,781 Speaker 3: It exactly exactly, and you just can't access You can 774 00:38:00,822 --> 00:38:03,342 Speaker 3: smell the fresh payment exactly. You can't access the building 775 00:38:03,422 --> 00:38:05,421 Speaker 3: for a couple of weeks around it. But then when 776 00:38:05,502 --> 00:38:08,182 Speaker 3: the scaffolding comes off, big shine in your building. 777 00:38:08,302 --> 00:38:10,142 Speaker 1: Anything you need to find, you find in the show 778 00:38:10,181 --> 00:38:13,062 Speaker 1: notes or on our socials. Exactly sorry, self out out 779 00:38:13,062 --> 00:38:16,701 Speaker 1: loud as you're smart. Before we go though, We did 780 00:38:16,781 --> 00:38:19,462 Speaker 1: a subscriber episode yesterday about one of us having an 781 00:38:19,462 --> 00:38:21,302 Speaker 1: ambition crisis, and it was Jesse. 782 00:38:21,781 --> 00:38:24,862 Speaker 3: I've already started Yeah, I've already started getting some dms 783 00:38:24,982 --> 00:38:27,942 Speaker 3: from some listeners with actually really helpful advice back excellent. 784 00:38:28,062 --> 00:38:31,261 Speaker 1: We needed an intervention, so Holly and I did intervene. 785 00:38:31,502 --> 00:38:33,701 Speaker 1: Have a listen to Jesse's crisis. Tell us that if 786 00:38:33,701 --> 00:38:36,062 Speaker 1: you think our advice is any good, we'll pop a 787 00:38:36,102 --> 00:38:37,982 Speaker 1: link in the show notes and we'll be back in 788 00:38:38,022 --> 00:38:40,022 Speaker 1: your ears soon. Bye. 789 00:38:40,781 --> 00:38:43,741 Speaker 3: Shout out to any Mum and mea subscribers listening. If 790 00:38:43,741 --> 00:38:45,701 Speaker 3: you love the show and you want to support us, 791 00:38:45,942 --> 00:38:48,861 Speaker 3: subscribing to MoMA mia is the very best way to 792 00:38:48,942 --> 00:38:51,342 Speaker 3: do so. There's a link in the episode description