Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Mom and Mia out loud. It's
Speaker 1: all I'm actually talking about. On Friday, the twentieth of
Speaker 1: March out louders, I just want to offer you all
Speaker 1: an enormous congratulations. You are still listening to the number
Speaker 1: one show in Australia. We might have told you about
Speaker 1: that on Wednesday, but we're going to tell you about
Speaker 1: it again and again and again and again. Congratulations on
Speaker 1: your excellent taste. Congratulations and congratulations class.
Speaker 2: You can say, and I'll take a little bit of
Speaker 2: credit because last time I was sort of like trying
Speaker 2: to head but my way into the celebration. Everyone's like,
Speaker 2: no offense, beat you won't there, you were there.
Speaker 3: I can't take any credit because I wasn't here all affair.
Speaker 1: Yeah, your vibes was always here, Yeah, always here. You
Speaker 1: were on holiday, but your vibes were still here.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you anyway, alauders, I.
Speaker 1: Have one request from the number one show in the nation.
Speaker 1: If you love it, if you love us, wherever you're
Speaker 1: listening to this, there'll be a little way for you
Speaker 1: to show it. There will be a place where you
Speaker 1: can hit five stars or leave a little review. Yeah,
Speaker 1: saying we love our girls.
Speaker 3: And also they're very attractive, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: We're not really girls very attractive like the bridesmaid aging
Speaker 1: really well, lady. Anyway, if you would like to leave
Speaker 1: us over your five stars, we would love it. Anyway.
Speaker 1: Who else is with me?
Speaker 2: Well, you haven't said who you are?
Speaker 1: Who are so sorry? I've been talking to us a
Speaker 1: bit over excited. I'm Holly Wayne Wright.
Speaker 2: You're also like, I need no introduction. The number one
Speaker 2: podcast in the country.
Speaker 1: I'm Clare and I'm M N M and on Today's Agenda.
Speaker 2: The best selling memoir that has us asking how much
Speaker 2: truth actually matters.
Speaker 1: We have recommendations that include a TV show that made
Speaker 1: Claire cry, a movie that m can't stop raving about,
Speaker 1: and a literally eye opening beauty product from me.
Speaker 3: And there is a substack titled the Unofficial List of
Speaker 3: Things that men should Never do. I'm immediately obsessed, and yes,
Speaker 3: I've created my.
Speaker 1: Own list to add on. We're going to have a
Speaker 1: little barney about that, I think. But first, in case
Speaker 1: you missed it, your difficult friends are shortening your life.
Speaker 1: I'm just leaving this here in case you need a
Speaker 1: little nudge this weekend to cancel some plants a very
Speaker 1: fancy scientific journal called PNAS. I do not read that
Speaker 1: out loud.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry that.
Speaker 1: I didn't even realize that Proceedings of the National Academy
Speaker 1: of Sciences PNAS, it's real, have published a study blah
Speaker 1: blah study blah blah, but experts labor labeling your difficult
Speaker 1: friends and family members as Hassler's is the official scientific
Speaker 1: term for it, Hassler's and saying they're literally aging you.
Speaker 1: A couple of lines from this study. We investigate the
Speaker 1: role of Hassler's, say p NAS people in one's close
Speaker 1: social networks who create problems or make life more difficult,
Speaker 1: finding that these negative ties are not rare, disproportionately experienced
Speaker 1: by individuals facing greater social and health vulnerabilities and consequential
Speaker 1: for aging. So basically, they're saying they're bad for you
Speaker 1: each additional Hassler, So every extra awkward, annoying person you
Speaker 1: have in your life is associated with faster biological aging
Speaker 1: with especially pronounced effects when that Hassler is a family member.
Speaker 1: So look, you don't need to have brunch tomorrow with Betty,
Speaker 1: who drives you crazy. She is ushering you to an
Speaker 1: early grave and you just need to say, so's Betty,
Speaker 1: I have to cut you off for my health. What
Speaker 1: do we think?
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot of debate, isn't there about
Speaker 2: how we need a little bit of social friction and
Speaker 2: social tension in order to have community.
Speaker 1: But not if it's aging myself.
Speaker 2: And then we're told that it's aging us. And obviously,
Speaker 2: as the resident scientist, I went and read the entire
Speaker 2: study and it's legit like and it is as you say, Holly,
Speaker 2: it's not just friends, it's family members. And I thought
Speaker 2: what was interesting They make the point in the study
Speaker 2: that often the hasslers are the people who are closest
Speaker 2: to you, because they're the ones that you give the
Speaker 2: bandwidth to be annoying, Like if you had if you
Speaker 2: had an acquaintance who was like that, you just kind
Speaker 2: of ignore them. But it's hard when it's your mum.
Speaker 2: So it's often these people who are really close to you.
Speaker 2: I do like that it gives you permission.
Speaker 1: And we've got a name. Hassler's Ye, you're a hassler.
Speaker 1: You're not a hassler. M thank you so much. Are
Speaker 1: you going to cut off some hasslers?
Speaker 3: I mean, it's very rare where I hear something new
Speaker 3: that's come up that has a lot of scientific backing
Speaker 3: on it, and I go wrong.
Speaker 1: She lives universe, take side and shove it.
Speaker 3: This is wrong because this whole thing is Also because
Speaker 3: I did read a lot of the science words in
Speaker 3: this piece, and I saw I saw the word chronic
Speaker 3: stress come up a lot. So they're comparing that some
Speaker 3: people who are hasslers in your life are adding to
Speaker 3: your chronic stress. And we know stress is a slow killer,
Speaker 3: but it is a killer. That's not the only thing
Speaker 3: that's stressful. So what I'm worried about is that we
Speaker 3: could get someone who has all of these friends around
Speaker 3: them and then them just going you stress me out
Speaker 3: this way. I didn't like when you did that. That
Speaker 3: was a bit stressful. I didn't like when you did that.
Speaker 3: That was a bit stressful. But also the same person
Speaker 3: could just have like a job that's literally aging them
Speaker 3: and that's the biggest stress in their life, and they
Speaker 3: end up dumping all their friends keeping this crappy job,
Speaker 3: and now they're still stressed out, going through chronic stress,
Speaker 3: and they've got no friends because I got.
Speaker 2: Rid of them. Also, social support really really important for
Speaker 2: fighting stress. So I do think, m there are lots
Speaker 2: of confounding factors.
Speaker 1: Get me a lab coat.
Speaker 3: I've got this.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna get little badges made like Hassler. Just
Speaker 1: hand them out to my friends and be like, this
Speaker 1: is a present. It's a great compliment. Everybody around them
Speaker 1: will be like, stay away.
Speaker 2: There's a book cover I have been seeing everywhere. Amelia's
Speaker 2: reading it, Me is reading it, and it's next on
Speaker 2: my list. It's called Strangers by Bell Burden. But before
Speaker 2: I've even had the chance to pick it up, I've
Speaker 2: seen some criticism circling for context Burden, who happens to
Speaker 2: be an heiress. She has descended.
Speaker 1: So I just displayed so much about myself by giving
Speaker 1: a little snort through my nose and rolling my eyes.
Speaker 1: I'm very sorry, Bell Burden. I'm sure you're a lovely person.
Speaker 1: Not her fault.
Speaker 3: Heiresses can write books.
Speaker 2: Yes, she descended from the Vanderbilts. She wrote a viral.
Speaker 2: People are allowed.
Speaker 1: To be heiress, discriminated Charlie inside voice. Sorry, we're not gLing, Claire.
Speaker 1: I was just trying to get through this one.
Speaker 2: Sorry, Clara, please continue telling us about it, just because
Speaker 2: we're not heiresses. You know, one day we might be
Speaker 2: She wrote a viral essay for the New York Times
Speaker 2: Modern Love section, and that is the basis for this memoir.
Speaker 2: So it opens in the early days of the pandemic
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, and she receives a phone call from
Speaker 2: a stranger who says, FYI, your husband is having an
Speaker 2: affair with my wife. And that's her husband of twenty years,
Speaker 2: scary of her three children. He is a hassler. But
Speaker 2: the twist is she didn't know he was a hassler,
Speaker 2: because the other kind of remarkable thing about this story
Speaker 2: is that she says in this book that there were
Speaker 2: no signs, and so at first he says he's really sorry,
Speaker 2: and he is embarrassed, and the relationship is over. Then
Speaker 2: he sort of switches and says he doesn't want to
Speaker 2: be married, and then he becomes a stranger to her.
Speaker 2: So that's the concept of strangers. It's been hailed as
Speaker 2: a memoir about betrayal and self discovery, but there are
Speaker 2: also people who say it's not entirely true or not
Speaker 2: entirely consistent.
Speaker 1: Let me guess is one of them.
Speaker 2: The husband, Well, weirdly, he read it and gave his.
Speaker 1: Approved Okay, so he was like, you've got me. This
Speaker 1: is my penance, Please publicly humiliate me for lessons.
Speaker 2: But he I think it was very much like the
Speaker 2: royal response to Prince Harry's memoir, which was like, recollections
Speaker 2: may vary my favorite Yeah, because it's just I mean,
Speaker 2: a truer sentence has never been spoken about life. But
Speaker 2: there are apparently discrepancies between what Burden wrote in the
Speaker 2: New York Times essay, what she said in interviews about
Speaker 2: the book, and then what's actually in the memoir. One
Speaker 2: of those is the idea of there being no signs
Speaker 2: of the problems in her marriage, because sometimes she phrases
Speaker 2: it that you willfully ignored them. Sometimes she kind of
Speaker 2: brings up things that people are like that was a sign.
Speaker 1: But to me, I'm life, Yeah, we're all inconsistent humans exactly.
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, if I told any story about my
Speaker 2: life any number of times, it would change because that's
Speaker 2: the nature of language and perspective.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you're not making profit on it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, true, I like, but I think even still, we
Speaker 2: don't want people to be totally rehearsed in exactly what
Speaker 2: they tell us. And your understanding of your own life
Speaker 2: evolves over time. But there's also this sub stacker came across,
Speaker 2: which is so detailed to the point of it was
Speaker 2: a little bit funny, where it goes through all of
Speaker 2: Burton's claims dissects them. And what's interesting is that this
Speaker 2: critic seems to be annoyed at Bellburden for not considering
Speaker 2: the perspective of her husband in.
Speaker 1: All this, and even though he has and just like,
Speaker 1: go for it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'd just like to say that no one
Speaker 2: who's been dumped out of the blue is at pains
Speaker 2: to walk in their partner's shoes, like you have your
Speaker 2: experience of what happened, and that's the bloody experience. So
Speaker 2: there's also criticism about the dialogue in the memoir about
Speaker 2: how could you possibly have remembered those conversations, which makes
Speaker 2: me think that's just me.
Speaker 1: People are so annoying. I'm sorry, but people are annoying.
Speaker 1: Let the woman write a book, exactly, Let the air
Speaker 1: s write a book.
Speaker 2: Let her write her book and make a lot of money.
Speaker 2: I'm money fascinated by this conversation because I've just finished
Speaker 2: listening to the Walkers the Real Salt Path which Holly
Speaker 2: recommended a few weeks ago, seven part series about the
Speaker 2: best selling memoir by rainer Win, and you flagged when
Speaker 2: you recommended it. Holly that on the one hand, there
Speaker 2: are some very legitimate claims about the story not being true,
Speaker 2: or rainer Win misrepresenting her life for example, that's not
Speaker 2: her name, just little things at all. But there are
Speaker 2: also things that seem really petty, and I'm not sure
Speaker 2: that they actually take away from the emotional truth of
Speaker 2: what she was trying to say. Holly, where do you
Speaker 2: think the line is?
Speaker 1: I think we live in and it's all true crime
Speaker 1: podcast fault.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: We live in an era where everybody wants to be
Speaker 1: a detective, and everybody likes to excavate on the internet,
Speaker 1: and everybody likes to prove people wrong and expose the truth.
Speaker 1: And we don't believe anybody about anything, so we're always digging, right.
Speaker 1: That's become a very just mainstream cultural thing now that
Speaker 1: we someone tells you something and you go, sure, I'm
Speaker 1: going to go check. I'm going to go check receipts
Speaker 1: like that's a thing. A lack of trust in general,
Speaker 1: the thing that makes that really tricky atmosphere to drop
Speaker 1: a memoir in is a memoir isn't an autobiography. We
Speaker 1: need to remember that, right. A memoir is different. So
Speaker 1: it's not supposed to be a straightforward out of every
Speaker 1: single thing that's ever happened to you. The whole point
Speaker 1: of a memoir is it's a story from your life
Speaker 1: that you're telling. It might focus on one particular period
Speaker 1: of your life or one particular relationship, or it might
Speaker 1: pick out different stories, but the whole point of a
Speaker 1: memoir is it's a like, it's written in an engaging
Speaker 1: literary way, telling a story from your life. Now, as
Speaker 1: we've already said, if I'm going to tell a story
Speaker 1: about something that happened to me yesterday, it will be
Speaker 1: my version of it, and then if I ask you
Speaker 1: and you were there, you'll probably tell a different version.
Speaker 1: And that's life. It doesn't mean mine was wrong or
Speaker 1: yours was wrong. It means I came from my perspective,
Speaker 1: you came from yours. And you've got to give memoir
Speaker 1: and that level of recollection the benefit of the doubt
Speaker 1: in that someone's telling you their story, you know it
Speaker 1: with your eyes open going in. This isn't supposed to
Speaker 1: be an entirely fair documentation of events. This is Bell
Speaker 1: Burden's story. Or another example of this would be last
Speaker 1: year I read and interviewed Liz Gilbert about All the
Speaker 1: Way to the River, which was her memoir about the
Speaker 1: death of her partner, Raya Ellis Elias Raya Elias, and
Speaker 1: that was a very controversial book that got a lot
Speaker 1: of crap because people said it was ungenerous to Raya
Speaker 1: because at the end of Raya's life she turned back
Speaker 1: towards her drug addiction. That is not a disputed fact,
Speaker 1: Like everyone who knows her and who is in her
Speaker 1: circle knows that happened. But they didn't like Lizzie's telling
Speaker 1: of what life was like. But the thing is is
Speaker 1: only Liz knows what it was like to be the
Speaker 1: partner of that person in that moment, and she's telling
Speaker 1: her version of events. It's got her name on the cover,
Speaker 1: like it's to me, that's fair enough, right. The problem
Speaker 1: is when you shit on other people in your memoirs.
Speaker 1: And I don't classify the Raya Ellis example as that
Speaker 1: because Liz Gilbert did not do that in my opinion,
Speaker 1: in that book, and she was also very she didn't
Speaker 1: give herself an easy writing that she talked heaps about
Speaker 1: all the things she'd done wrong and all her different,
Speaker 1: you know, sort of issues. But if you are straight
Speaker 1: up just calling other people out and criticizing them and
Speaker 1: giving ungenerous descriptions of their role, that is difficult because
Speaker 1: you're putting the other person in a very tricky situation.
Speaker 1: I think like some celebrity examples of this would be
Speaker 1: Prince Harry's memoir Spare Yeah. He famously writes in there
Speaker 1: about a time that him and William got into a
Speaker 1: physical fight, do you remember, And there was about a
Speaker 1: dog bowl and he fell over, and the fight wasn't
Speaker 1: about a dog bowl, but they're like wrestling in the
Speaker 1: kitchen and then a dog boll goes over and someone's
Speaker 1: pulling someone's hair and it's all really embarrassing for everybody.
Speaker 1: And Harry tells that story, and Prince William, who isn't
Speaker 1: allowed to comment on such matters but through his people,
Speaker 1: has been like that never happened, Harry, Like it did
Speaker 1: not happen. Like that. That's tricky, you know, because you're like,
Speaker 1: in order to negate someone else's account, you've got to
Speaker 1: come out. You've got to say what really happened or
Speaker 1: to you buy it from your perspective, Then you have
Speaker 1: to go deep on it. You have to accept questions
Speaker 1: on the matter, and like, who wants to do that?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: I also want to talk about the reader of this situation,
Speaker 3: because for non readers or people who very rarely read memoirs,
Speaker 3: reading someone's memoir is a big deal. I rarely read memoirs.
Speaker 3: I find them quite boring and self indulgent.
Speaker 1: Well, some of them are brilliantly written, some of the
Speaker 1: most famous books in the world and memoirs, but then
Speaker 1: some of them are not, like Britney Spears, The Woman
Speaker 1: and Me not.
Speaker 3: But like even like Britney Spears, like I think, like
Speaker 3: I've the reason. Ones I've read have been Britney Spears
Speaker 3: and Jeanette McCurdy's. And there's some like social clouds in
Speaker 3: telling people you've read a memoir, and you can be like, well,
Speaker 3: in Britney Spears's memoir you hear all about the stuff
Speaker 3: of Justin Tim Blake, and people are like, WHOA, she's
Speaker 3: a great example though she's very well read.
Speaker 1: He wouldn't have liked that.
Speaker 3: He wouldn't have liked that. But with the strangers a
Speaker 3: lot of the stuff that she said. So in the
Speaker 3: book she was like, there were no signs, But then
Speaker 3: she does interviews and she was like, there were some,
Speaker 3: so this could have been sign. So it's like her
Speaker 3: going against her own word. And as a reader, if
Speaker 3: I were to read that memoir and I would have
Speaker 3: told all my friends about it and been like, there
Speaker 3: was no signs, no science, and then she's out doing
Speaker 3: interviews going here's a sign here, this could have been
Speaker 3: a sign, I would have felt betrayed, and I've been like,
Speaker 3: you are wasting my time for making me reader's book.
Speaker 1: But don't you think that Sometimes, Like so, in an
Speaker 1: account of a marriage or a relationship, everybody wants a
Speaker 1: neat narrative, right, you know, the first question whenever anyone
Speaker 1: breaks up is what happened? And what we want is
Speaker 1: something really simple? She cheated, he was bored, you know,
Speaker 1: like we want something like that, don't we? And very
Speaker 1: rarely is it like that. It's really often the story
Speaker 1: of a relationship, particularly a long relationship, will be a
Speaker 1: million little messes that then tip over to be the
Speaker 1: thing that upends it. So when you ask someone were
Speaker 1: their signs, and you're like, no, I thought we were happy.
Speaker 1: That doesn't necessarily mean that every day you were skipping
Speaker 1: down the street holding hands. You might just mean there
Speaker 1: was the usual amount of shit going on, because in
Speaker 1: every relationship there is, and maybe when you're being questioned
Speaker 1: about that, you're going to reflect on it differently than
Speaker 1: when you're writing it out.
Speaker 3: But a book allow you to reflect on that like
Speaker 3: a book. I feel like, because you're sitting down writing
Speaker 3: this book, you are reflecting. You should have all of
Speaker 3: that in there. It's not a social post. It was
Speaker 3: a social post of her going he cheated. I'm like,
Speaker 3: that's fine. I don't care about the science, but the
Speaker 3: scigence should have been in the book.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I haven't read it, so it's very hard
Speaker 1: to be really specific about that example when you haven't
Speaker 1: read it. But like I think, I just think that
Speaker 1: we want really neat narratives and that's not what memoir is.
Speaker 2: And I think what makes it really tricky in an
Speaker 2: age of the Internet and hot takes and you know,
Speaker 2: everybody wants to wants to post about it or have
Speaker 2: an opinion, is that stuff gets taken out of context.
Speaker 2: So it's like, this might be an eighty thousand word manuscript,
Speaker 2: and I remember thinking this a lot about Lena Dunham's
Speaker 2: memoir all those years ago, very very controversial, and there
Speaker 2: would be a passage that just got taken out and
Speaker 2: totally ripped apart, and I thought, but that's completely devoid
Speaker 2: of all the context and all the context about who
Speaker 2: she is and why she was telling that story. I
Speaker 2: do think there's a big difference between those sort of
Speaker 2: gray area inconsistencies that we probably all have and the
Speaker 2: serious fabrication of a story completely. So there is a
Speaker 2: big controversy going on at the moment with a book
Speaker 2: called The Tell by Amy Griffin. It was all the
Speaker 2: book Club Picks in twenty twenty five, so it came
Speaker 2: out in March last year. Then this month it came
Speaker 2: out that she's being sued by a former classmate who
Speaker 2: says that Griffin's story of being sexually abused was based
Speaker 2: on assaults that this classmate had actually suffered at their
Speaker 2: middle school.
Speaker 1: Well, that's an excusable ye to me. There's fraud. There's
Speaker 1: out and out fraud, and there are some very famous
Speaker 1: cases of that in memoir where people have fabricated everything
Speaker 1: from racial identity to you know to their background and
Speaker 1: all those things. That to me is a much clearer
Speaker 1: cut and dried case, like if you're pretending a thing
Speaker 1: happened to you and it absolutely didn't, or you're pretending
Speaker 1: to be someone else, Which is one of the arguments
Speaker 1: about the Saltpath discussion, is that so I'm on the
Speaker 1: record of saying I read that book, I love that book.
Speaker 1: I still love that book. It's beautifully written, like it's
Speaker 1: a really well written, gorgeous book, which is why it
Speaker 1: got so much attention. The argument there is whether the
Speaker 1: whole premise is now discredited, which is that she and
Speaker 1: her husband were in a very difficult spot financially and
Speaker 1: health wise, and they went off on the walk, which
Speaker 1: is a crazy decision to make, but they did do that.
Speaker 1: That's all true, and then it sort of follows them
Speaker 1: through and the accusations about them are like, the whole
Speaker 1: thing is fake, and it's not fake, but it's just
Speaker 1: that a lot one of the motivations that she spelled
Speaker 1: out she either left out massive details, like the reason
Speaker 1: that they were in debt was allegedly because she's stolen
Speaker 1: money and got involved in this very complicated scheme, And
Speaker 1: whether or not her husband's illness is as serious as
Speaker 1: she has portrayed it, but the story still holds. That's
Speaker 1: different to like I say, I grew up in a
Speaker 1: palace in London, and really I grew up in Manchester,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: I think the claim there that has that I feel
Speaker 2: the most uncomfortable about is Rayna Winn writes about her
Speaker 2: husband having a certain neurodegenerative and physically degenerative condition, and
Speaker 2: it really sounds like that might have either been exaggerated
Speaker 2: or he but.
Speaker 1: We don't know that. Yes, but in a microsoft.
Speaker 2: If that is the case, then I do think.
Speaker 1: And that falls into the fraud cast.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that falls into because the people who read that
Speaker 2: book also think maybe I can walk my way into health,
Speaker 2: and that's clearly not the case. This brings me back
Speaker 2: to the fact that some of my favorite books are
Speaker 2: fiction that's clearly based on a true story. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: I love it because you can take all those liberties
Speaker 2: that maybe you're restricted from taking in memoir. So I
Speaker 2: just read EM's recommendation from the other Week Half His
Speaker 2: Age by Jeanette MacCurdy, and you read that and you go,
Speaker 2: she's had this experience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you see sometimes that And that irritates me too,
Speaker 1: because if you write books, everyone always fiction. Everyone always
Speaker 1: assumes that you're just telling your story and you're not, Like,
Speaker 1: we have imaginations, right, So you take a little bit
Speaker 1: of this story, in a little bit of that story,
Speaker 1: and a little bit of this and you mix them
Speaker 1: all up at you and sometimes, I mean, lots of
Speaker 1: great writers write about things that they have no experience of.
Speaker 1: So I don't think it's always fair to assume that,
Speaker 1: particularly women's fiction is always based on real experience, which
Speaker 1: is what people particularly like to say about women's fiction.
Speaker 1: Or well, clearly she did do that, Clearly that did happen. Yes,
Speaker 1: and you're doing the same detective works that the people
Speaker 1: who are doing who are digging and that you know.
Speaker 4: What I mean.
Speaker 2: Yes, but you're allowed. And so all fours is the
Speaker 2: other one where you go, this is clearly partly mirandigalized story.
Speaker 2: My book is the same. There are a whole lot
Speaker 2: of things people like, oh I remember when that happened. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And I'm like, yeah, And I wrote it as fiction
Speaker 2: for a reason because I know that I'm incredibly biased
Speaker 2: and the story would not have held up to scrutiny.
Speaker 3: Out louders in a moment, the Unofficial List of Things
Speaker 3: Men and Women should Never do. No, it's not scientific,
Speaker 3: but I'm taking those truth out louders.
Speaker 4: Hello, it's me and I've done another diary for you.
Speaker 4: It's a bit of an update some of the things
Speaker 4: I wanted to talk to you about. I'm not going
Speaker 4: to spoil it by telling it to you now, but
Speaker 4: I do subscribe episodes twice a week on Tuesdays and Thursdays.
Speaker 4: And if you like my instabubble that I don't do anymore,
Speaker 4: the diary updates have kind of replace them, except I
Speaker 4: can be a lot more honest and candid because it's
Speaker 4: not on the open Internet. So if you're not already
Speaker 4: a subscriber and you want to hear, follow the link
Speaker 4: in the show notes to listen to me on Tuesdays
Speaker 4: and Thursdays, and you get out loud five days a week.
Speaker 2: What could be better than that?
Speaker 3: So substacker Hannah Park published the Unofficial List of Things
Speaker 3: Men and Women should Never Do? And I want to
Speaker 3: say that I read some of the comments on this
Speaker 3: piece and a lot of people are angry.
Speaker 1: I was a bit angry, but I also wanted to
Speaker 1: bring it to you like a cat bringing you something
Speaker 1: to play, because I was like and will love this shit.
Speaker 1: She has very strong opinions about what men and women.
Speaker 3: Made my week and made me so happy. Before she
Speaker 3: gets into her list, she does say just letting you
Speaker 3: all know this is technically not true, like, don't take
Speaker 3: this as bible.
Speaker 1: All the things she's like, I'm just having a lull.
Speaker 3: I think all memboir should have FYI are true.
Speaker 1: The queen said it.
Speaker 3: So I want to also say I made my own list,
Speaker 3: not about what women shouldn't do, because I think women
Speaker 3: should do whatever they want to do, but things that
Speaker 3: men should definitely things had men should definitely not do.
Speaker 3: And I want to say I made this list sitting
Speaker 3: next to one of my best friends who works here,
Speaker 3: amom Me and Julian, a straight man, because I was
Speaker 3: liked him. These are the things that you do that
Speaker 3: annoy me that I think men shouldn't do, And he
Speaker 3: got very annoyed at first, but then he got really
Speaker 3: into it and.
Speaker 1: Also started adding to the list. So tell us what
Speaker 1: was on the original origins point.
Speaker 3: Okay, some of these we agree with me and Hannah.
Speaker 3: Men who get a stomach ache.
Speaker 1: Ye, men are allowed to get stomach No.
Speaker 2: I think honestly women own that part of the anatomy,
Speaker 2: not only because of like period pain and that kind
Speaker 2: of thing, but I just think our stomach should be
Speaker 2: more sensitive.
Speaker 3: Oh, you can just word it a bit differently, right,
Speaker 3: Like I don't want to hear a man going, oh,
Speaker 3: tummy ache. You can say something like I think I
Speaker 3: have appendicitis. That's fine, that's fine to say, and then
Speaker 3: we can figure it out as we go along.
Speaker 2: Kidney Stone exactly. Think I have a bowel obstruction, Like,
Speaker 2: don't tell me that, but like.
Speaker 3: That scientific we've only just started. Men aren't allowed to
Speaker 3: get hiccups.
Speaker 2: Oh it's embarrassing. Why not?
Speaker 3: Well, what do you like?
Speaker 4: Stop it?
Speaker 1: Just stop? What do you mean it's sitting there with what.
Speaker 2: Were you drinking?
Speaker 1: I get hiccups but you're that's fine, okay, man, just
Speaker 1: don't tick up? Yes, you're like, please remove yourself until
Speaker 1: this has finished. This episode, unfortunate episode is over.
Speaker 3: Sorry again, men who use the stare master at the gym.
Speaker 3: This is one of my personal ones as well.
Speaker 1: Why well, why it is going to be my question
Speaker 1: at your time? Is it? Just stop? Saying why you
Speaker 1: need to offer me a little tippit of why it's
Speaker 1: such a thick Well, that's my machine.
Speaker 2: And also it's like if you want to do cardio,
Speaker 2: just run.
Speaker 3: Oh I see on the treadmill like outside, because the
Speaker 3: machine is the treadmills also for women.
Speaker 1: So the code is that the inside cardio exercise is
Speaker 1: for women, because why we can't exercise outside safely? Like
Speaker 1: what's the via stops?
Speaker 3: It's all about just fine, true, can be fine.
Speaker 2: Image of who's on a StairMaster at any given time
Speaker 2: is a cutout? Yeah, yeah, she loves.
Speaker 1: Its about the but right yeh.
Speaker 3: Drinking marcher, just drink coffee. Just stop it. Needing sleeping
Speaker 3: accessories to fall asleep.
Speaker 2: Okay, my I have a note on this my husband,
Speaker 2: and I'm sorry to share this because it's such an
Speaker 2: it will he mind? No, We argue about it every day.
Speaker 3: He wears.
Speaker 2: It started during my matt leave newborn. All of that.
Speaker 2: He wears this sleep mask to go to sleep, that
Speaker 2: it's like this across his eyes, but then it also
Speaker 2: has white noise in his ears. It's also for the
Speaker 2: nights where he isn't getting up with Matilda so he
Speaker 2: can sleep through. It is the biggest ick and every
Speaker 2: morning he takes it off and I'm like, I hate it,
Speaker 2: and he's like, do you want to borrow my sleep mask?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I will never touch them. It is
Speaker 2: just about yours.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Oh God, it's so poor.
Speaker 1: Can't help themselves and stuff? Can they know?
Speaker 3: Before I get into my personal list? Should I go
Speaker 3: through some of the things that Hannah says girls shouldn't?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Have I not to ask? Why again?
Speaker 3: Have a nickname? That's their last name?
Speaker 1: Disagree? Love a nickname?
Speaker 3: It's too browie.
Speaker 2: Trying to think if I know any women.
Speaker 1: I used to call Rachel Corbett Corbett all the time.
Speaker 1: There are some people in my life who are definitely
Speaker 1: just called by their second I think it's cool, but
Speaker 1: there's that really daggy am. I just old, is that
Speaker 1: what I think it is cool? I think it will.
Speaker 3: I don't think you'll be able to get a boyfriend
Speaker 3: if you do that.
Speaker 2: You should worry that.
Speaker 3: Some girls who like grill or I guess it's an American barbecue.
Speaker 1: Oh no, that's also cool. Do you know how to barbecue? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Because I've seen my dad like carry like this, this machine.
Speaker 2: I think it's filled with gas.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I really despair.
Speaker 3: I think I could flip a burger, like flip some chicken.
Speaker 1: But I think what goes on inside into like the
Speaker 1: men are at the barbecue, the women are making the salads. Like,
Speaker 1: come on, I.
Speaker 3: Think the men can start the barbecue and if they
Speaker 3: go to the bathroom, I can do some stuff on there. Okay,
Speaker 3: I don't understand the mechanics of it.
Speaker 2: How the barbecue works is none of.
Speaker 3: My none of my business. Women shouldn't be at home
Speaker 3: when the internet guy or electricity guy comes over.
Speaker 1: What if you live alone? Like you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really.
Speaker 1: Hard and I think I've been camped.
Speaker 3: But I spent a lot of money on stopping my
Speaker 3: tap from dripping, and I think it took him like
Speaker 3: two seconds. My good, Yeah, your dad needs My dad
Speaker 3: should have been there.
Speaker 1: Women are very in this world order. They're like very
Speaker 1: little helpless princesses, aren't they.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it looks like it.
Speaker 1: We like that.
Speaker 3: Do we know the names of directors of movies?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, my.
Speaker 1: Head's going to fall off.
Speaker 2: I think this has changed recently because directors of movies
Speaker 2: used to all be men, and that was boring. But
Speaker 2: now that we've got greta girl, got Chloe Joo and
Speaker 2: Emerald for now. But no, we are not just allowed
Speaker 2: to know about girl things. Okay, do you want to
Speaker 2: know about in my box? Because guy like.
Speaker 1: You should know his name?
Speaker 3: Okay, can I get into my list?
Speaker 1: Please get into your list. And because one of the
Speaker 1: reasons why I brought this story to you, as I say,
Speaker 1: like like a little shiny cat toy, is because I
Speaker 1: think all the time about your bold declaration that you
Speaker 1: made on this podcast quite some time ago that men,
Speaker 1: unless they're famous. I think there was an I think
Speaker 1: there was maybe an out for famous men should never
Speaker 1: have a public Instagram account. No, that made my head
Speaker 1: fall off. I'm like, I didn't think that Instagram was
Speaker 1: only for women.
Speaker 3: No, it is only for women. I mean the public
Speaker 3: Instagram accounts. I only why would a man have a
Speaker 3: public Instagram to show?
Speaker 1: Well? What are they showing the same things that we're showing?
Speaker 3: No, No, it's different, it's different. Okay, what else?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 3: Taking the tram?
Speaker 1: Just walk? She's really, Oh, I don't know, a line bike.
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know. I don't approve of this. You know,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't remember this, but Margaret Thatcher, who is famous
Speaker 1: conservative British Preme Minister, once made a declaration that if
Speaker 1: you see any over the age of thirty on public transport,
Speaker 1: he's a loser. Oh I that hurts me to my core.
Speaker 1: And this sounds like no. It sounds like you're saying no.
Speaker 3: They can take buses, men, trains. They could take buses, trains, walks, linebacks,
Speaker 3: metros and trams are for girls.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: Vibes, drinking with the straw, Yeah.
Speaker 1: They've had their teeth whitened and they don't want to.
Speaker 3: Okay, on the list straws grave, Okay, holding a wine
Speaker 3: glass by the stem.
Speaker 1: You're terrible. You're going to hell.
Speaker 3: Also, how would the hand fitter like if your hand
Speaker 3: fits around them? Yeah, I'm on into that.
Speaker 1: I'm sure I've selling this story before. When my son
Speaker 1: was little, I was obviously going really hard on like
Speaker 1: the whole rebel girls things for my daughter and you
Speaker 1: know all that, and so I was always like, you
Speaker 1: can be whatever you want to be. And one day
Speaker 1: little Billy, I think it was like six, he comes
Speaker 1: to me and he goes, mom, can boys be whatever
Speaker 1: they want to be?
Speaker 2: Too?
Speaker 1: I was like, shit, I think it never even occurred
Speaker 1: to me. And now I'm going to have to go
Speaker 1: home and say to him, yes, billy, except you.
Speaker 2: Can't get on a tramp.
Speaker 3: Wearing contact lenses.
Speaker 2: Yeah, wear glass, wear glasses.
Speaker 1: It don't look HoTT in glasses. They always look. That's
Speaker 1: what they get.
Speaker 3: Driving with two hands on the wheel.
Speaker 2: One hand on the steering wheel, one on the Yeah,
Speaker 2: have an accident.
Speaker 1: That's too far, too far.
Speaker 3: Blowing on their food if it's hot, just eat it.
Speaker 3: A little burnt tongue never hurt anyone. Oh, and like
Speaker 3: the way they get into water when it's too cold,
Speaker 3: Like if they're not just straight jumping in, don't get
Speaker 3: in the water because they come to climb.
Speaker 1: And I really like manly, don't.
Speaker 2: My favorite dud yell at my husband the manisphere.
Speaker 1: Guys, we're talking about that the other day.
Speaker 2: I yell at my husband all the time, being like
Speaker 2: men used to go to war.
Speaker 1: I did to the ocean.
Speaker 2: You can't even get into cold water.
Speaker 3: Well there's my list.
Speaker 1: Clad. Do you concur with this terribly gendered conversation?
Speaker 2: Okay, broadly, I believe gender is a construct and we
Speaker 2: shouldn't fit into these binary kid categories and we actually don't.
Speaker 2: I am going to raise my daughter and my son
Speaker 2: exactly the same. But if I had to this light
Speaker 2: hearted segment.
Speaker 3: Segment emphasis Also, I do want to say again a
Speaker 3: straight man helped me with my list, then this is.
Speaker 2: What I would say. Hypothetically, Men shouldn't wear backpacks.
Speaker 3: Agree, just kept things in your pocket.
Speaker 1: You could not be what would a man have in
Speaker 1: his back Tell me right now?
Speaker 2: On every day.
Speaker 1: He's got a little backpack and then you put the
Speaker 1: water in it.
Speaker 3: But they leave the house with his backpack.
Speaker 1: What about if they're looking after a child and they
Speaker 1: need to put the nappies in there and stuff?
Speaker 3: Is that allowed?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: I think maybe like a saxul or like hold a
Speaker 3: bag with your hand by your side.
Speaker 1: Nothing should touch your shoulders.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, but I agree. It's like your clothes,
Speaker 2: get pockets, owls, drinker pockets. That's why we need bag anyway,
Speaker 2: drink mescato?
Speaker 1: What are you doing?
Speaker 2: What are you doing? Wear pants made out of thin
Speaker 2: fabric like linen? Well like stretch he's in like did
Speaker 2: you see.
Speaker 1: The needed rivalry boys on the red carpet at the
Speaker 1: Vanity fair? Pap Very soon.
Speaker 2: I'll have to look at that, I'll have they break
Speaker 2: all the rules. And finally, this is really important. No
Speaker 2: compression socks.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, what about a long cold flag?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: No, but look what happened to Logan roy in succession?
Speaker 2: True that it was meant to happen. No deal with
Speaker 2: the risk.
Speaker 1: This is so good. What would you add to the list?
Speaker 1: Only really have one very strongly held feeling, and it explains,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, the end of Nicole Kidman and Nicky
Speaker 1: Surban's marriage. No man should spend more than three minutes
Speaker 1: getting ready to go out. That's it. Any man whose hair,
Speaker 1: whose hair requires wires, sings like I mean, yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: a bit of product, but like requires a lot of
Speaker 1: extra attention. I don't like it. Like, I don't like.
Speaker 2: That, And I don't want him to have an opinion
Speaker 2: about his hair, you know what I mean. It's like,
Speaker 2: go to the hairdresser, that's fine.
Speaker 1: I have opinions about your hair. That's pretty much the
Speaker 1: only place I draw the line. And like Harry Styles,
Speaker 1: I would excuse that. I would excuse that. But even so,
Speaker 1: like sometimes his hair looks like he's thought about added
Speaker 1: a bit too much. I don't really want people to
Speaker 1: think about it like, I don't want that.
Speaker 3: I say men should just not have head.
Speaker 1: You know, though, I'm being very holy now about this,
Speaker 1: because I'm all like guys, I wanted to do whatever
Speaker 1: they want. But when we were talking about the stomach akes,
Speaker 1: it made me remember a very unedifying incident when I
Speaker 1: was younger. I was going out with a guy who
Speaker 1: had a peanutalergy and I was really mean about it,
Speaker 1: and I'm so sorry to everyone in the world with
Speaker 1: the peanutalergies and dealing with kids with penalogies. But it
Speaker 1: was a different time and we didn't and I specifically
Speaker 1: thought that men do not have foodalergies or special dietary requirements.
Speaker 1: They don't sit in restaurants and ask like, but what's
Speaker 1: in the car? My poor boyfriend, we went up quite
Speaker 1: a long time. He used to always whatever we were ordering,
Speaker 1: like spaghetti bolonnaise, be like, is the peanuts that I'd
Speaker 1: be like, like, I was so awful, and he's like,
Speaker 1: I guess I'll just die, And I reckon that if
Speaker 1: that was one of my girlfriends, there is no way
Speaker 1: I would have been awful about it. I was nasty.
Speaker 1: And then one day, the poor man we were on
Speaker 1: whole day together in Edinburgh and he ordered a meal
Speaker 1: and he was like, does it have peanuts? And I
Speaker 1: was like, forgot's fake? Can we stop talking about peanuts?
Speaker 1: And then he had a really bad clash and I
Speaker 1: was not nice, and I reckon that was my internalized sexism.
Speaker 1: So just be careful out loud as. Please don't cancel
Speaker 1: us for this conversation. Please very wrong and very funny.
Speaker 1: I may die of laughing. I believe you have.
Speaker 2: Something else to tell us about. On almost every episode
Speaker 2: of this podcast, a bit of bts for the listeners,
Speaker 2: I am corrected on my pronunciation of something, and I
Speaker 2: like to think it's because I'm actually so clever that
Speaker 2: I learn most of my words from reading.
Speaker 1: Oh Jesse says this, yeh Jesse's excuse whenever she mispronounces.
Speaker 1: She says, I've only ever seen that word written down,
Speaker 1: probably the scientific peen.
Speaker 2: Ass, and therefore when I go to say it, I
Speaker 2: guess I'm just surrounded by U plebs. But I do
Speaker 2: get a lot of words slightly wrong. But today I
Speaker 2: learned there's another one to add to the list. An
Speaker 2: article in the Daily Mail begins Australians have been left
Speaker 2: stunned after discovering they may have been pronouncing one of
Speaker 2: the country's most iconic lollies wrong their entire lives. I'd
Speaker 2: like to challenge that. I don't think we're stunned. I
Speaker 2: think we're just like, we just don't.
Speaker 3: Have a lot going on.
Speaker 1: We're trying to avoid the really scary shit in the world.
Speaker 2: What but that lolly is the humble what I would
Speaker 2: call chop cho.
Speaker 1: I love Choppa chups red ones. When you've got little kids,
Speaker 1: you can like total excuse, like watermelon really good, a
Speaker 1: total excuse to get into the chops because you can
Speaker 1: give them to them for like, oh your is my pop?
Speaker 1: Oh shut up? One for me too, and it's a novelty.
Speaker 2: The colon ones are great but apparently incorrect. We're all
Speaker 2: saying it wrong. Uh, it's actually pronounced super shut up?
Speaker 3: Who says wrong?
Speaker 2: Daily mail is never wrong? And I feel like there
Speaker 2: is new information like this all the time, and it
Speaker 2: may just be clever marketing, but I don't mind because,
Speaker 2: for example, did you know, according to a random article
Speaker 2: I found on the internet, Nitella is actually new teller.
Speaker 1: It's been around pages. It's Italian, right, so you guys
Speaker 1: know that it's good when you say that. Now I
Speaker 1: call it Theella.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think this is just kind of a giveaway
Speaker 2: about just where I exist, like socially. But Porsche is
Speaker 2: actually Porsche.
Speaker 1: Did you know it was?
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
Speaker 1: Did I know? I would definitely say, oh, he's driving
Speaker 1: a Porsche.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I would say Porsche was a name.
Speaker 2: Yeah, me too, And Porsche sounds really wanky. Everybody else
Speaker 2: except me knew this. This is another thing I've only
Speaker 2: read Hermes is omes.
Speaker 1: Only people who need to know that. I know that.
Speaker 2: I guess I didn't need to. And volts Wagon, but
Speaker 2: you say.
Speaker 1: That the first time to make sure you're.
Speaker 2: Clearly clearly wrong. Volts Wagon and I don't know where
Speaker 2: I get the t because there's no tea. But I'm like,
Speaker 2: volts Wagon is no volks Vagan because yeah, voed for audience.
Speaker 3: Sorry it was too.
Speaker 1: Loose to They're like geez IQs are dropping produced.
Speaker 3: ID did a guy who said canapes instead of candidates,
Speaker 3: and it took me a long time to figure out
Speaker 3: what he meant.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you say it as you know how you say
Speaker 1: some pronunciations a joke, like and someone will be like.
Speaker 1: It's called talk if you're like.
Speaker 3: But now it looks like I didn't.
Speaker 2: I'm being ironic. I genuinely need to know this because
Speaker 2: I heard someone say this years ago and I never
Speaker 2: kind of googled it. The word for you, for you,
Speaker 2: it's not fouryer, I'll meet you.
Speaker 4: Oh.
Speaker 1: People say ship again out loud as I apologize.
Speaker 3: I think I've been saying both. Did I think there
Speaker 3: were two different things? No, surely not.
Speaker 1: Let's move on.
Speaker 4: The break.
Speaker 1: We have some recommendations for your weekend ideas, something casual,
Speaker 1: something fun. This is my best recommendation. It's Friday. We
Speaker 1: need things to tell people about for the weekend. We're
Speaker 1: going to try and be smart. Please everybody. Claire Stevens,
Speaker 1: you're smart. Tell everybody what to watch this weekend.
Speaker 2: So I saw a post from Lee Sales a couple
Speaker 2: of weeks ago.
Speaker 1: She's smart.
Speaker 2: I just go to the smart. We're on a good track,
Speaker 2: and she said that that night's episode of Australian Story
Speaker 2: had made her cry harder than any episode ever has.
Speaker 1: Hold on it's a job to say no presents Australian.
Speaker 2: Story exactly, but for her to say that, out of
Speaker 2: all the episodes, I was like, ooh, okay, you're in
Speaker 2: and so all the comment it got massive engagement. People
Speaker 2: are commenting, and so I sort of put it to
Speaker 2: the side because I was like, hmmm, I don't know
Speaker 2: if I can do with a big cry right.
Speaker 1: Now, but sometimes you need one exactly.
Speaker 2: So I put it aside for a couple of weeks.
Speaker 2: But then I knew I had to watch it because
Speaker 2: it's called Raising Richard, and it's about a seventy two
Speaker 2: year old Perth mum Didri Croft as she confronts the
Speaker 2: question of who's going to care for her intellectually disabled son,
Speaker 2: Richard when she no longer can yes. And so what's
Speaker 2: incredible about this story is that this filmmaker, Andrew Wiseman,
Speaker 2: has documented their life for more than three decades, so
Speaker 2: from when Richard was ten, and both Wiseman and Croft
Speaker 2: really wanted to present an honest and raw but humanizing
Speaker 2: picture of Richard, which three decades ago was pretty frickin revolutionary.
Speaker 2: And so when Richard was younger, there were confronting public meltdowns,
Speaker 2: there was a bit of violence towards his mum when
Speaker 2: he sort of was overwhelmed by emotion. But she really
Speaker 2: wanted to show that these things were not his fault
Speaker 2: and that there was a lot of nuance to his
Speaker 2: emotional experience. So what got me was that Richard's mum
Speaker 2: put him in a group home a few years ago
Speaker 2: because physically she was unable to care for him anymore.
Speaker 2: She's getting older, he's a big guy, and just in
Speaker 2: terms of the physical work of looking after him, she
Speaker 2: couldn't do it. So she put him in care. Things
Speaker 2: looked absolutely great, and then it deteriorated and basically he
Speaker 2: was hospitalized multiple times, even though his physical health seemed
Speaker 2: to be okay. And what she's clearly dealing with is
Speaker 2: that he has no way of expressing what distressed him
Speaker 2: or how he was feeling. And the reason this got
Speaker 2: me is because we've had a very similar experience in
Speaker 2: our family with my cousin in a group home where
Speaker 2: something clearly pretty rufic happened, and the fact that they
Speaker 2: can't tell you exactly what it was, but you see
Speaker 2: the toll them is just so devastating. So Deirdre, the
Speaker 2: thing I absolutely loved about this Australian story and about
Speaker 2: her is that she's not a martyr, and it's not
Speaker 2: about being a martyr, and it doesn't romanticize disability. And
Speaker 2: she is currently because she's aging, she's currently filming all
Speaker 2: these videos for Richard for when she goes, because he
Speaker 2: obviously doesn't have an understanding of mortality of what happens
Speaker 2: after somebody dies. So she's filming all these videos just
Speaker 2: telling him that she loves him and she's proud of him.
Speaker 2: And it's just I just sobbed and sobbed. But I
Speaker 2: think this is really important for people to watch when
Speaker 2: it comes to the question of what happens to people
Speaker 2: with intellectual disabilities as they become adults and as their
Speaker 2: caregivers become older and can no longer care for them.
Speaker 2: It's a big question for Australia and a really confronting one,
Speaker 2: and this episode.
Speaker 1: Is just the story. Stories of carers are not told
Speaker 1: very often because it's seen as almost like a sacred
Speaker 1: duty that you would look after your child no matter
Speaker 1: what or whoever. But it's an enormous responsibility that comes
Speaker 1: with so much difficulty, and so any story that kind
Speaker 1: of shows that ye as well as asks these questions
Speaker 1: of like why is this always a personal responsibility? Is
Speaker 1: really yeah, Okay, you've I don't know, I'm going to
Speaker 1: have to save that for a particularly emotionally robust moment,
Speaker 1: but it sounds incredible. I'm going to change the mood.
Speaker 1: I'm going to talk to you about my eyebags.
Speaker 3: I know exactly what it's going to recommend.
Speaker 1: So last Friday, my friend Emily Vernon and I were
Speaker 1: on a shoot. We were doing a shoot for Shkoda Shoda,
Speaker 1: and we spent the day like we got our makeup
Speaker 1: done because we were being very fancy. And the makeup
Speaker 1: artist who did us called Amy, and she was brilliant.
Speaker 3: Makeupis are always brilliants. She only uses like K beauty products.
Speaker 3: She knows exactly what product you use on exactly the
Speaker 3: type of persons. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: She was so great. Absolutely, And when you get your
Speaker 1: face done, you suddenly realize, you know, all the famous
Speaker 1: people were seeing on the red carpets and everything, like,
Speaker 1: nobody looks like that. I look almost like I could
Speaker 1: be on the Oscars Red carpet. After Amy's been at
Speaker 1: me for like an hour. Yeah, anyway, I look.
Speaker 3: Like I had a what they called buckle fat removal.
Speaker 1: I'll put a picture in em and I obviously took
Speaker 1: lots of selfies because we liked how hot we looked.
Speaker 1: We We're just like, yes, anyway, The point is not
Speaker 1: about that. The point is about that. One of the
Speaker 1: things is when you, if you're ever lucky enough to
Speaker 1: get your makeup done, I always like quiz for tips.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, what are you doing? What are you using?
Speaker 1: Blah blah blah blah blah. So two things that have
Speaker 1: changed my life from Amy my under eye circles. I
Speaker 1: have never before used a color corrector. Do you ever
Speaker 1: use a color corrector? I do, and of course she do,
Speaker 1: because she's very clever like that. But I just my
Speaker 1: conceiler and I've got my favorite concealer I've recommended before.
Speaker 1: It's Lorel True Match. It's not expensive, it's brilliant. I
Speaker 1: use the serum one. But she's like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: darlt with those.
Speaker 3: Dark exactly how she talked. She's like, what are you doing?
Speaker 1: She was like, you need to put color corrector on
Speaker 1: before you do the CONCEIALA And she told me about
Speaker 1: this one. I bought a bit of an exy one.
Speaker 1: It's a tart shape tape. I bought the peach one.
Speaker 1: But there are lots of June.
Speaker 3: You can get the green and red, like different colors
Speaker 3: depending on your scale.
Speaker 1: On your skin tone. And she said to me, you
Speaker 1: need peach. So I've started putting that on a little bit,
Speaker 1: letting it set in a bit before I put my
Speaker 1: conceil on, and I reckon, it's better, I know. And
Speaker 1: then the other things she did to me. And I'm
Speaker 1: not necessarily recommending this because I googled and there are
Speaker 1: are some downsides. But she taped my eyes open.
Speaker 2: It's wild because you said this, and I was imagining
Speaker 2: you with like strings like coming from your hair and
Speaker 2: being a Kardashian, And then when I saw a photo,
Speaker 2: I was like, I can't see anything.
Speaker 1: So she used those eyelid strips. Now they're really big
Speaker 1: in Asia where people might be trying to fix in
Speaker 1: inverted commas like hooded eyes. Right, Like, it's a very
Speaker 1: subjective beauty standard about whether or not your eyes should
Speaker 1: be hooded, but clearly for older women, your eyes become
Speaker 1: more hooded for many of us, right and basically you're
Speaker 1: like eyelid stuff down, get more hooded? What's like what
Speaker 1: you just It's just gravity, baby, It's just it's just
Speaker 1: gravity doing its thing. It's just everything's just think of
Speaker 1: it as everything's just slowly slide brows. Look, it's fine.
Speaker 1: They're all just having a little chill. But some done
Speaker 1: a lot of work, a lot of word like lifting
Speaker 1: up and what the like, a lot of that, a
Speaker 1: lot of is anyway, and so they're slowly having little
Speaker 1: lie down. And what Amy did is she had this
Speaker 1: this island tape and you put it in like the
Speaker 1: crease of your eyes here, just really little and you
Speaker 1: can't see it, and you can put eyeshadow over it,
Speaker 1: and it just immediately makes you like a bit more. Yeah,
Speaker 1: eyes open.
Speaker 3: We didn't even realize she was putting it on you
Speaker 3: because we were having a conversation hit chatting away and
Speaker 3: I was like, what's that.
Speaker 1: I'm like, look at me, I am emma stone up
Speaker 1: in here. And so I'm not necessarily recommending that, friends,
Speaker 1: but I'm just putting it out there that I learned
Speaker 1: a couple of things about my eyes that didn't involve
Speaker 1: a knife on the weekend on Friday. In fact, that
Speaker 1: was a very useful. So yeah, color correct. I'll put
Speaker 1: a link in I tape. You do you.
Speaker 3: What have you got for a sem I have a
Speaker 3: movie recommendation that's in cinema's right now. I have been
Speaker 3: told by many people that I have the same movie
Speaker 3: and TV show taste as a nine year old boy,
Speaker 3: which is great, and this one fits right into that.
Speaker 3: So I rarely recommend movies where you have to go
Speaker 3: to the cinema to watch, because cinema tickets are so
Speaker 3: bloody expensive now. So this I want people to go
Speaker 3: see it because it is a cinematic masterpiece. It's Ryan
Speaker 3: Gosling's new movie. It's called Project Hail Mary.
Speaker 1: Really like Ryan Gosling? Is there any reason for us
Speaker 1: not to like Ryan Gore? Has he done anything anything
Speaker 1: we need to know? Problematic, troublesome? We are allowed to
Speaker 1: like him absolutely.
Speaker 3: Recently Hard launched his wife.
Speaker 1: Yes, I know, I love that. Yeah, I love They've
Speaker 1: been together for ages and ages and generally they're pretty
Speaker 1: chill about it. Yeah, you've never seen them together ever,
Speaker 1: and she's really fun and you're good glad. I'm glad
Speaker 1: we're still allowed to because I love it. Will La
Speaker 1: la la.
Speaker 2: He's a good ex boyfriend mccadams and like he's just
Speaker 2: a cheerleader.
Speaker 1: The date, Yes, that notebook.
Speaker 2: They hate each other during film, and then they got together.
Speaker 1: After it and then they're like nice. They're still like
Speaker 1: nice to each other. So, Okay, we've.
Speaker 2: Decided a commission non problematic.
Speaker 1: And his SNL thing the other week was very funny,
Speaker 1: very funny, very funny.
Speaker 3: Anyway, this is like old school Ryan Gosling in action movie.
Speaker 3: So he plays this high school science teacher and the
Speaker 3: movie starts off with him waking up on a rock
Speaker 3: in space, not knowing who he is, why he's in space,
Speaker 3: what he's meant to do in space, and you see
Speaker 3: him kind of like figure out what his purpose really is.
Speaker 1: Am a man allowed to go to space? In fact,
Speaker 1: I think they should all go.
Speaker 3: Just go see what's health there.
Speaker 2: It's like jury g but like.
Speaker 3: We'll be down here fixing everything. You guys, go do
Speaker 3: your thing. Okays in spacelings in space, and it jumps
Speaker 3: back and forth of him on Earth just before going
Speaker 3: to space, so you kind of like piece together why
Speaker 3: he's there. Very early in the film. This isn't spoilers,
Speaker 3: we find out that the Earth is being the Earth,
Speaker 3: the Sun, the Sorry, this is a very scientif movie.
Speaker 3: Please please take a science person with you when you
Speaker 3: go watch it the Earth sun is being eaten by
Speaker 3: a substance and no one can figure out what it is.
Speaker 3: So then Ryan figures out very quickly that's his job.
Speaker 3: That's the reason why he's in space, because he's a
Speaker 3: high school science stage. And then it just gets very
Speaker 3: very action y. It's very very cinematography. It's very very
Speaker 3: extra terrestrially.
Speaker 1: Is he like the only human in it?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 1: Is it Ryan Gosling one man show? No?
Speaker 3: No, there are other people around, but he's like the guy.
Speaker 3: It's just one of those really fun, fast paced movies.
Speaker 3: It's also gets a bit like Emoshi.
Speaker 1: It sounds like something I need.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can take.
Speaker 1: It's like a rules are allowed to go movies about space.
Speaker 3: Girls are allowed to go to movies about space, and
Speaker 3: they're also allowed to go to space if they want to.
Speaker 3: It's up to them, are allowed to.
Speaker 2: They do get a choice.
Speaker 3: But it's just like such a fun movie. I would
Speaker 3: compare it to like a fun version of Interstellar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because Interstellar wasn't fun.
Speaker 1: No, too bad?
Speaker 3: Too much, too much is happening. You're not going to
Speaker 3: be sad after watching it.
Speaker 1: What's it called again?
Speaker 3: Project Hail Mary.
Speaker 1: And it's in all good cinemas now also.
Speaker 3: Themes right now you know what, go see it in
Speaker 3: the imax.
Speaker 1: Take out a mortgage in a week of the interst
Speaker 1: rate right and screw petrol.
Speaker 3: See this on the tramps. If you're a man, walk
Speaker 3: to the wal I'll be walking.
Speaker 1: For a long time. Okay, Well, look we Friday. That
Speaker 1: didn't we? That was it was a bit loose. I
Speaker 1: hope everybody is having a good Friday. I hope you're
Speaker 1: all easing into the weekend if you get one. And
Speaker 1: thank you so much for making us number one show
Speaker 1: in Australia for the second month running. We will be
Speaker 1: back in your ears next week. Please thank our marvelous team,
Speaker 1: my friends.
Speaker 2: Our group executive producer Ruth Divine, our executive producer Tasha Tasha, our.
Speaker 1: Executive she has implored my name, I was.
Speaker 2: Gonna say Tasha Sana executive producer Sasha Tanic, Our senior
Speaker 2: audio producer is Lea Porges, video producer is Josh Green,
Speaker 2: and our junior content producer is Tessa Kotovich.
Speaker 3: Mama Miya acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on
Speaker 3: which we have recorded this podcast Byey