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Speaker 1: Like prove them wrong. They thought that we were a

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Speaker 1: blip and that we couldn't be taken seriously as a

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Speaker 1: business in this industry, and rather than tell them we can,

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Speaker 1: we showed them that we can.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Sees the Yay Podcast. Busy and happy

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Speaker 2: are not the same thing. We too rarely question what

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Speaker 2: makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but

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Speaker 2: rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than

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Speaker 2: one way. So this is a platform to hear and

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Speaker 2: explore the stories of those who found lives They adore,

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Speaker 2: the good, bad and ugly, The best and worst day

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Speaker 2: will bear all the facets of seizing your yea. I'm

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Speaker 2: Sarah Davidson or a spoonful of Sarah. A lawyer turned

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Speaker 2: fu entrepreneurs wapped the suits and heels to co found

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Speaker 2: matcha Maiden and matcha Milk Bar.

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Speaker 1: Sez the Ya is.

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Speaker 2: A series of conversations on finding a life you love

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Speaker 2: and exploring the self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment along

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Speaker 2: the way. There would be very few Australians who haven't

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Speaker 2: encountered The Daily Oz at one point or another, consuming

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Speaker 2: the latest headlines from around the world in unmistakable bright

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Speaker 2: signature colors and a no nonsense vernacular. Since twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 2: TDA has been disrupting the media landscape by repackaging leading

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Speaker 2: news stories in a digestible, engaging way for younger, traditionally

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Speaker 2: news avoidant audiences. What you may not know, however, is

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Speaker 2: that A. It all began between two complete strangers. B

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Speaker 2: was all designed and executed at that initial blind coffee

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Speaker 2: catchup between said strangers and C, with both of them

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Speaker 2: working outside of journalism and outside of the media at

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Speaker 2: the time. After years of following both her work and

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Speaker 2: her path ya behind the scenes that led her to TDA,

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Speaker 2: I'm so thrilled to have had one of the incredible

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Speaker 2: co founders, Sara Sidler on the show today. You all

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Speaker 2: know I love a pivot filled pathia, especially one with

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Speaker 2: a defining happy accident, and Sara is the queen of both,

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Speaker 2: going from early leanings towards education to climbing the ladder

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Speaker 2: in government of politics before accidentally falling into this dream career.

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Speaker 2: You'll hear how she built a side hustle with a

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Speaker 2: stranger into a media monster, with a few fun side

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Speaker 2: stories about managing risk, the power of underestimation, and a

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Speaker 2: failed rebrand, and all of this still before the age

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Speaker 2: of thirty years old. We also touch on the loss

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Speaker 2: of Zara's father to suicide when she was just sixteen

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Speaker 2: years old, an unfathomable and defining moment both for her

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Speaker 2: and her family, including one of her brothers, Zach, a

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Speaker 2: clinical psychologist, researcher, and global director of Men's Health at November,

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Speaker 2: who many of you may remember, we were also lucky

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Speaker 2: enough to welcome to the show, So please do take

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Speaker 2: care while listening to those segments, and do not hesitate

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Speaker 2: to seek help if you need further support. Zara is

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Speaker 2: extraordinary in so many ways, eloquent beyond her years, and.

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Speaker 1: A joy to chat with.

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Speaker 2: I hope you guys enjoyed this one as much as

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Speaker 2: I did.

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Speaker 1: Zara Sidler, Welcome to Seza. Thank you for having me

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Speaker 1: so excited. Gosh, I'm so excited coming.

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Speaker 2: I feel like you are one of those internet besties

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Speaker 2: that I have where it's like, likewise, I'm just catching

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Speaker 2: up with an old friend.

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Speaker 1: And then I was like, wait, no, but we haven't met.

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Speaker 1: But it is an old friend. It is an old friend.

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Speaker 1: And look, you've interviewed my brother on this podcast, so

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Speaker 1: it's a family affair, we're basically related. Basically where it

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Speaker 1: can end. Now all's done, and.

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Speaker 2: I mean before we get into your actual story, which

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Speaker 2: is incredible, especially given guys, I just have to preface

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Speaker 2: everything that comes next with the fact that Zara is

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Speaker 2: not even thirty years old. Like that blows feel one

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Speaker 2: hundred if that guy's my joint, You've done one hundred

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Speaker 2: years worth of things in your lifetime. But before we

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Speaker 2: get into it, tell us what it takes. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you are like at the front line of news and

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Speaker 2: delivering that to hundreds and thousands of Australians. I was

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Speaker 2: looking at the last twenty four hours. You've done ten

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Speaker 2: Instagram post some different stories just in that time. Three

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Speaker 2: podcast episodes have also come out in that time.

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Speaker 1: You just mentioned you.

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Speaker 2: Do two podcast episodes every single day. I mean, it's

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Speaker 2: what ten o'clock, not even what have you done this

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Speaker 2: morning to get here and to have kind of ticked

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Speaker 2: the new cycle delivery?

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Speaker 1: Okay, good question. No two days are the same, which

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Speaker 1: is the joy and the peril of a news cycle.

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Speaker 1: But every day for me starts the same, and anyone

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Speaker 1: who has like good mental health and good well being

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Speaker 1: is going to hate what I'm going to say that,

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Speaker 1: which is that I start my day every morning by

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Speaker 1: reading the news. Like I roll over and eleven seconds

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Speaker 1: after my brain is on, I'm reading the news. And

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Speaker 1: I know how bad that is for me, but I

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Speaker 1: just can't help it. I made my hobby my job,

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Speaker 1: and so I would have probably done that anyway, and

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Speaker 1: now it's my job to do it. So listen exactly

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Speaker 1: kind of thrilled. So I have like a bunch of

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Speaker 1: newsletters and news sites and just news consumption that I

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Speaker 1: do every single morning, you know, around six am. Start

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Speaker 1: with that. Then we get a newsletter out by seven am.

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Speaker 1: So working deliverables by seven, seven days a week, lunch. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we always talk about like why didn't we call it

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Speaker 1: the monthly or the you know yearly os? What were

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Speaker 1: we thinking? Well, we're like at least quarter every single day.

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Speaker 1: So by now I've done a nine am pitch meeting

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Speaker 1: where all of the team have pitched what they want

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Speaker 1: to write for the day. We've got a bunch of journos,

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Speaker 1: all young, all amazing, and everyone started with their day.

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Speaker 1: And now is where there's a bit of calm before

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Speaker 1: we get into the swing of things and start editing

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Speaker 1: and getting everything out the door. So this is sweet spot, right.

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Speaker 2: Well, I felt very very lucky to have you, given

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Speaker 2: how much happens in the morning for you, and it

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Speaker 2: is such a unique place to be where you do

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Speaker 2: have to, like I often say to people, you know,

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Speaker 2: you can wait till tomorrow, like put your mental health first.

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Speaker 2: But there are certain industries where you can't, Like the

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Speaker 2: morning is your prime, like the currency of things is

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Speaker 2: your currency.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it is. But I do always need to

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Speaker 1: remind myself that there are a bunch of news sites

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Speaker 1: that people will consume and we don't actually have to

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Speaker 1: be the first. And you know, there is certainly a timeliness,

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Speaker 1: but we're not saving lives and we do need to

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Speaker 1: remind ourselves of that sometimes. So yeah, we can take

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Speaker 1: our time to make sure it's right. But there is

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Speaker 1: this relentlessness that every single day you wake up and

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Speaker 1: you do the news and it doesn't stop trying to

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Speaker 1: ask you to stop for a minute. It's like one day, well,

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Speaker 1: we'll come back to that.

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Speaker 2: Because I really do want to tap into how you

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Speaker 2: have decided your place in the market, because I think

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Speaker 2: that's really difficult. We're all facing this rat race of

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Speaker 2: like relentless speed and pace.

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Speaker 1: But the news is just something different.

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Speaker 2: So the fact that you have been able to get

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Speaker 2: that perspective, I mean, what you guys do so well

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Speaker 2: is you don't just deliver, and you repackage it in

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Speaker 2: a way that is digestible to a population of people

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Speaker 2: who don't necessarily love the news and who don't consume

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Speaker 2: it the same way. And that's harder. I actually think

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Speaker 2: being concise.

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Speaker 1: Is way harder. So we'll get to that.

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Speaker 2: But what I love to do in these episodes is

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Speaker 2: start by going all the way back to the very beginning,

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Speaker 2: and for you that was like yesterday because you're a

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Speaker 2: one minute old. But at least going back to the

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Speaker 2: chapters that came before where you are now. Yeah, because

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Speaker 2: there are a lot of listeners who haven't found their passion,

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Speaker 2: let alone turned it into a profession at that, who

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Speaker 2: don't know what their direction is, who want to hear

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Speaker 2: that it's possible to discover something, you know, to fall

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Speaker 2: into something by accident. So let's go back to childhood. Okay,

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Speaker 2: three brothers, right back to the beginning. An incredible, talented,

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Speaker 2: well known family for many different reasons, daughter of your

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Speaker 2: late father, who was a doctor and we'll come back

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Speaker 2: to him. But he was also the nephew of a

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Speaker 2: famed architect, so already got some very strong heritage there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, except everyone's like, so are you really creative? Like

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Speaker 1: are you an architect? And I'm like, you have never

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Speaker 1: met a less creative person in your whole life. Ask

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Speaker 1: me to draw. No, no, no, no no. I got

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Speaker 1: the mina brow and that's it is the strong eye.

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Speaker 1: That's about it.

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Speaker 2: I don't see it.

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Speaker 1: So you're maintaining that really well. So that's a skill set.

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Speaker 2: Then, also very strong matriarch at the same time, So

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Speaker 2: even though three brothers for you, strong women in your

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Speaker 2: family has been a big influence. And your grandmother who

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Speaker 2: who fled Austria, so you've got so many family roots

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Speaker 2: going on. How did that create expectations or influences.

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Speaker 1: For you to choose who you wanted to be? Great question.

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Speaker 1: I think for me it all created a sense of momentum.

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Speaker 1: There was always momentum in my household. We were always

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Speaker 1: just encouraged to keep moving. And you just mentioned my

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Speaker 1: dad in that sense. He based his entire career around

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Speaker 1: helping others and he was a GP but he specialized

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Speaker 1: in addiction medicine, so he was helping the most vulnerable

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Speaker 1: in the community to deal with their addictions. And so

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Speaker 1: social justice and the sense of momentum of always moving forward,

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Speaker 1: those were kind of the two key things that I

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Speaker 1: grew up with, and it's really interesting to see how

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Speaker 1: it's manifested in each of us differently. You spoke to

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Speaker 1: my brother Zach, and his whole life's work now is

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Speaker 1: to help men have better health outcomes for themselves and

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Speaker 1: to feel a sense of masculinity that is healthy, and

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Speaker 1: so that's how it's manifested for him, and for me

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Speaker 1: it's I want to help people feel empowered to engage

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Speaker 1: with the world around them. Of Course, when I was

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Speaker 1: a kid, I had no idea what I was going

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Speaker 1: to do. I just wanted to, you know, have conversations,

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Speaker 1: meet people. I was always loud, always breggarious. Every school

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Speaker 1: report said, please shut up, you're speaking too much. Nice.

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Speaker 1: It was the best childhood and we had so much

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Speaker 1: curiosity and room for movement, and it was a really

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Speaker 1: special environment to grow up in.

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Speaker 2: Even reading the small snippets that are out there about

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Speaker 2: the family background you have in that time, it's interesting

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Speaker 2: you said momentum, because I was like you just none

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Speaker 2: of you, the four kids in your generation, were ever

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Speaker 2: going to do nothing like you were always going to

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Speaker 2: and you all have had this insatiable sense of curiosity

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Speaker 2: and learning which has manifested in different ways. But I

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Speaker 2: think it's really interesting. But I read that you initially

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Speaker 2: thought that that would come out in education, that you

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Speaker 2: wanted to be a teacher. So how long did that last?

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Speaker 2: And then when did you sort of work out that

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Speaker 2: actually it was more politics and media and which has

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Speaker 2: turned out to be the interesting where you live.

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Speaker 1: I was obsessed with my teachers at school, like I

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Speaker 1: was such a teacher's pet. I always felt like teachers

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Speaker 1: took so much time and care to walk me through

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Speaker 1: things and to explain things, and it was just so

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Speaker 1: fundamental to my love of learning. What's more than that, though,

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Speaker 1: I think I loved explaining things to people very early

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Speaker 1: on interest and so for me, I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: if I like explaining things, education is a way that

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Speaker 1: you get to share that with other people. And so

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Speaker 1: I was like, okay, I'll do education. And then I

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Speaker 1: don't know how long it lasted until my brother actually

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Speaker 1: talked me out of it, which really he said to me,

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Speaker 1: why don't you start with something more broad, something more general,

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Speaker 1: and then if you do want to go into teaching,

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Speaker 1: you can do that after, like as a master's. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I chose to do just a glorified arts degree.

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Speaker 1: It's international and Global studies. It's just like four words

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Speaker 1: that mean the same thing. It does sound very fancy,

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Speaker 1: though it does, but it's just an arts degree, not

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Speaker 1: just it is an arts degree. And he was like,

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Speaker 1: why don't you do that and then just zero in

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Speaker 1: later so that you like leave your options open. Basically,

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Speaker 1: it was really sound advice at the time. They tell

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Speaker 1: me how to do shout out to Zach, thank you

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Speaker 1: for that. And I followed it, and thank god I did,

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Speaker 1: because I did this really broad degree where I kind

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Speaker 1: of tried everything and I realized that I loved politics

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Speaker 1: and I loved learning about it. I went on exchange

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Speaker 1: to Washington, d C. The weekend that Donald Trump was

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Speaker 1: inaugurated for the first time. I went, stuff, I, well,

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Speaker 1: it's it's one, you know, nation world defining moment. It'll

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Speaker 1: never happen again. I have to go again. I thought

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Speaker 1: I was, I thought I was something special there, but

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Speaker 1: I'm really glad that I did what I did, because

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Speaker 1: it opened so many doors of curiosity for me that

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Speaker 1: perhaps I might not have had if I'd gone straight

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Speaker 1: into what I thought would be my profession.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so interesting, and I found so many parallels reading.

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Speaker 2: Even though we did very different things and had very

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Speaker 2: different initial pathways, it sounded like you had the same

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Speaker 2: sense as I did of I don't know what I

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Speaker 2: want to do, but I'm just going to climb whatever

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Speaker 2: I'm doing at the time with as much gusto as

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Speaker 2: I can to set myself up best for whatever.

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Speaker 1: That next thing is.

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Speaker 2: And I actually never really found out what that was

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Speaker 2: until I accidentally fell into something else.

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Speaker 1: Which is the same as it happened to you.

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Speaker 2: But is that what you were thinking at the time,

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Speaker 2: Like what was driving those steps Washington, then coming back

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Speaker 2: then sky News and then moving into government, Like what

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Speaker 2: were you thinking at that time? Was it I want

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Speaker 2: to be here or did you still not know how

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Speaker 2: the pieces would fit together?

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Speaker 1: I had no idea. I just wanted to get as

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Speaker 1: much experience as I could, and so I went into

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Speaker 1: a whole bunch of really diverse jobs. I, as you said,

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Speaker 1: worked in media. I like was connecting the microphones for

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Speaker 1: famous politicians at three in the morning when they didn't

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Speaker 1: want to be there. I didn't want to be there,

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Speaker 1: But that opened so many doors for me because I

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Speaker 1: later worked for a politician who I met while connecting

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Speaker 1: her microphone at that time. No, she was just there

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Speaker 1: for an interview and I was like, I will speak

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Speaker 1: at you now. For the next ten minutes. Rehearsing childhood,

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Speaker 1: I did a bunch of things. I had no idea

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Speaker 1: how it would all add up. Honestly, I still don't

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Speaker 1: know if it did add up, as much as just

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Speaker 1: giving the experience to learn and see the world differently. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I love that.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a nice reminder. A lot of people

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Speaker 2: do have a plan, but a lot of us are

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Speaker 2: just doing thing to thing, and then one day you

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Speaker 2: stumble on the thing like this is my thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but it's okay to be putting your all into the

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Speaker 2: bits that go beforehand, and you never actually know which relationships,

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Speaker 2: or which moments, or which skill sets are going to

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Speaker 2: be the ones that are valuable.

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Speaker 1: That's fine, that's just it's only when you look back

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Speaker 1: that you can understand that everything forms a picture. But

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Speaker 1: at the beginning It's a bit like Picasso, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: what am I looking at it? It becomes clear slowly.

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Speaker 2: I've always described as like this jigsaw puzzle that starts

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Speaker 2: like this absolute clusterfuck.

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Speaker 1: Of a mess and then like you still a bit

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Speaker 1: of a clam but just a still waiting for it

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Speaker 1: to get pretty.

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Speaker 2: And so again, it's funny you were happy climbing the

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Speaker 2: ladder that you were on, And I think that's another

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Speaker 2: thing I loved about your stories.

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Speaker 1: You weren't unhappy in your job. You weren't looking for

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Speaker 1: a way that was I was like, I am in

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Speaker 1: this industry that I don't see young women in and

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Speaker 1: I want to continue climbing. I'm like super stoked to

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Speaker 1: be here, and I would have stayed in it.

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Speaker 2: So in that light, how did it come about? Like

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Speaker 2: what was the genesis of this idea that now has

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Speaker 2: become what we all know you for?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the genesis is a LinkedIn message? Huge huge? So Sam,

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Speaker 1: who's my now co founder, posted on LinkedIn that he

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Speaker 1: wanted to start something called the Daily Os. I could

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Speaker 1: find it somewhere, but it said something like, who wants

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Speaker 1: to help me build Australia's next great media thing? And

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Speaker 1: I was like me, okay, like ten friends, send it

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Speaker 1: to me. Sam and I had never met, but we

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Speaker 1: had a lot of mutual friends. We were like overlapping

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Speaker 1: social circles. We met for a coffee in Bundai and

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Speaker 1: I was like, all right, what are we talking about here?

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Speaker 1: And he said, I think that we should start something

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Speaker 1: for young people, and I was like, I'm a young person.

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Speaker 1: I mean that sounds great cool, And we had this

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Speaker 1: like four hour coffee where we came up with the

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Speaker 1: idea for it, and it was just based on the

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Speaker 1: fact that both of us and we often talk about this,

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Speaker 1: both of us were the people who were explain the

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Speaker 1: news to our friends. Our friends would come to us,

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Speaker 1: they'd say, I'm going on a date. Can you tell

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Speaker 1: me what's happening in X y Z, And so we're like, cool,

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Speaker 1: let's just make an Instagram page that does that and

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Speaker 1: reach our friends. And it was only ever intended to

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Speaker 1: reach our friends, like it was never intended to be. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I think Sam intended for it to be because he's

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Speaker 1: big thinker, big dreamer, big plans for the world, and

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Speaker 1: the little old of me was like, well, this sounds

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Speaker 1: like a fun pet project. And so it was born

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Speaker 1: that day and now it is what it is. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: see even that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't want to diminish how powerful it's

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Speaker 2: become by calling it a happy accident, but I do

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Speaker 2: want to later the point to people listening that you

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Speaker 2: don't have to set out planning this for years and

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Speaker 2: years and years. You didn't even know that this was coming.

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Speaker 2: And I love that it came out of news prepping

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Speaker 2: people for dates. The weirdest ideas can hit you at

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Speaker 2: the weirdest of times. I feel like all the news

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Speaker 2: media that covers your story also talk about you and

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Speaker 2: Sam being besties maybe now, yes, but the fact that

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Speaker 2: you didn't know each other is even.

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Speaker 1: And it was like instant best friend soulmate vibes, Like

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Speaker 1: we met each other and were like, oh, like, you

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Speaker 1: get where my brain's at. And I genuinely think we've

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Speaker 1: spoken every single day of our lives since that day.

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Speaker 1: So now it was like seven years ago. Now we

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Speaker 1: were the ring bearers at each other's weddings like weeks. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a very special friendship. And for anyone who's thinking

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Speaker 1: of starting something, the one piece of advice I would

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Speaker 1: give is try and find someone to do it with

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Speaker 1: who you want to spend every day with because it

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Speaker 1: like you go through the trenches, but having him and

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Speaker 1: being able to grow this little thing into our work

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Speaker 1: and our livelihoods, it's so special doing it with your

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Speaker 1: best mate. It couldn't be better.

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Speaker 2: And I love that you're breaking that mold of I

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Speaker 2: think we do have this idea of the ingredients that

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Speaker 2: make a great business or the ingredients that make a

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Speaker 2: big life pivot story, and it's always well, we'd always

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Speaker 2: been friends for twenty years before, and we'd always talked

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Speaker 2: about this stuff. And it's so cool that you guys,

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Speaker 2: we're not speaking about it and that that.

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Speaker 1: Can work so well.

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Speaker 2: And I also often say that the businesses that don't

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Speaker 2: start intending to become massive often do better because you're

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Speaker 2: a naivity about what it does involve. B Because you

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Speaker 2: don't bring that pressure to it. You actually do it

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Speaker 2: the way you want to.

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Speaker 1: I think it's very authentic when you're just building something

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Speaker 1: for you, rather than like having that perfect market fit,

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Speaker 1: product fit all that. I mean, nice for me to

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Speaker 1: say now, but back then I didn't know what anything was. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's just let's do this for our mates and hopefully

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Speaker 1: people will like it. Yeah, I love that.

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Speaker 2: The other story that often comes out is we started

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Speaker 2: and then the next week it blew up, and then

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Speaker 2: it always you know, hungry doory from there. Whereas for

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Speaker 2: you guys, I was reading that like three to four

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Speaker 2: years later, you were still punching out these updates, mainly

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Speaker 2: to your mum's.

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Speaker 1: Which is beautiful and delightful. Yeah, but again we get

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Speaker 1: these stories of overnight success. It's my favorite overnight success story. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was a long night's sleep.

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Speaker 2: Things don't happen overnight, and it does take sometimes the

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Speaker 2: right circumstances are the right timing, and if you'd given

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Speaker 2: up a day earlier then COVID, for example, you might

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Speaker 2: never have known what you could turn into. And I

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Speaker 2: think I think people forget that the best things take

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Speaker 2: a really long time and a lot of patience and yeah,

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Speaker 2: so long, but talk to us about that time, Like

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Speaker 2: you didn't have the success in inverta commas then that you.

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Speaker 1: Do success there was I was working in a particularly stressful,

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Speaker 1: high pressure job at the time. Sam was a lawyer

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Speaker 1: at one of the top firms in the country. We

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Speaker 1: were doing TDA before work, after work at you know,

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Speaker 1: eleven PM, and as you said, no one was watching,

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Speaker 1: no one was looking. I think we stayed stagnant on

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Speaker 1: like one thousand followers for three full years and no

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Speaker 1: movement at all. But we just genuinely loved it, and

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Speaker 1: we did it because we figured that the news should

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Speaker 1: be about building habit and that you know, looking back,

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Speaker 1: that that habit building and that consistency was key to

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Speaker 1: why it did grow and why there was that virality.

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Speaker 1: I think I probably would have given up like seven

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Speaker 1: years earlier, Yeah, exactly like first day. But we kept

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Speaker 1: each other accountable, and you know, we would text the

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Speaker 1: news to each other every single morning, and that meant

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Speaker 1: that when we did blow up unexpectedly, we knew exactly

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Speaker 1: what to do. We had done it so many times

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Speaker 1: that nothing actually changed because we had laid all the

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Speaker 1: foundations of how we were going to do this and

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Speaker 1: the tone and how we were going to approach it,

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Speaker 1: and it just meant when the time came, we were ready. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That's so powerful.

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Speaker 2: And I also love that you mentioned you kept going

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Speaker 2: just because you loved it. And I think a lot

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Speaker 2: of the time, our underlying driver is it needs to

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Speaker 2: be successful, and the metrics we set for what defines

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Speaker 2: that success are numbers, popularity, revenue figures. But sometimes I say,

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Speaker 2: particularly in business, when people are scaling, I'm often like, yes,

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Speaker 2: I get it from the outside, growing bigger necessarily means better.

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Speaker 2: But for you, I actually loved running a medium sized business.

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Speaker 2: Like the bigger it got, the less I was engaged

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Speaker 2: with the customer. There were so many ways I was happier,

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Speaker 2: yeah when it was smaller, and if I could have

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Speaker 2: chosen to maintain that.

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Speaker 1: So interesting part of me is like that was the

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Speaker 1: bit that yeah, there's a sweet spot. Yeah yeah, But

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Speaker 1: I think for us, I actually just made a video

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Speaker 1: about this. I had a full time job, I had

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Speaker 1: a salary, I had stability that allowed me to grow

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Speaker 1: really slowly and sustainably, and you could afford to do that.

436
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 1: I could afford to do that. Had I taken a

437
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 1: huge risk and quit my job to go full time

438
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 1: on TDA, like, it would have been a really different story.

439
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 1: And so I you know, people always ask when I

440
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 1: knew the right time to quit my full time job was,

441
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,080
Speaker 1: and my answer is always when I had the financial

442
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 1: security to do so. And I think that that's a

443
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 1: big thing of like, if you are chasing that very

444
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 1: quick growth versus the you know, long term sustainable growth,

445
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 1: Like there's this give and take and it is less

446
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 1: sustainable for you as an individual, I believe so, Yeah,

447
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 1: it was. It was very slow sustainable growth.

448
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I also feel like if it had never

449
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 2: taken off, I love that you probably still would have

450
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 2: kept doing it because you enjoyed it so much. And

451
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 2: I don't think that we ask ourselves often enough, particularly,

452
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 2: I mean, the show is about joy. We don't ask

453
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:40,919
Speaker 2: ourselves enough, like do I love it so it doesn't

454
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 2: matter if it becomes my full time job or not.

455
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 2: And there's a lot to be said about people keeping

456
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 2: their passion as their hobby and maybe not commercializing it

457
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 2: because sometimes it does kill the joy.

458
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 1: A little bit. I've definitely been through through parts of

459
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,439
Speaker 1: some doubt, right, Yeah, absolutely like felt times where I

460
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,680
Speaker 1: was like, should have stayed a hoppy. Yeah, it's really

461
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 1: fun just turning it off.

462
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 2: But I mean it has obviously gone on to like

463
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 2: absolutely disrupt the media landscape and provide so much value

464
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 2: to as you said, a whole generation who wouldn't otherwise

465
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 2: have been like accidentally fed the news and then suddenly

466
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 2: like whoa, I'm informd and they didn't even realize I was,

467
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 2: which is it's so niche and you've done it so cleverly.

468
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 2: But what was that big turning point where you had

469
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,120
Speaker 2: been slogging, as you said, doing the same thing.

470
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 1: What changed? Was it COVID? Was it that kind of timing? Yeah,

471
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 1: it was COVID. Oh, it was a combination of COVID,

472
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter in the US election, it was like

473
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 1: these three news moments. All of our growth is around

474
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 1: big news moments. It's nothing like business focus. It's always

475
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 1: news moments because people come to us for that. But

476
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: COVID especially, you know, I always say that it's a

477
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 1: privilege not to care about the news because it means

478
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 1: that it doesn't affect you, or certainly like policy doesn't

479
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 1: affect you, because you're you know, separated from that. And

480
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: during COVID, no one could turn off the news because

481
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 1: you know, we had politicians telling us, yeah, where you're

482
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,159
Speaker 1: going while you were doing all of that. And so

483
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: we saw this like huge, huge increase in our audience

484
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 1: because we were, you know, at a time where there

485
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 1: was so much sensationalism and so much fear. We were

486
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 1: just bringing the facts and there was no opinion there's nothing.

487
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 1: It was like, here are the COVID numbers, here's what

488
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 1: you can do. Off you go, and right, pretty coloring exactly,

489
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: you got me in the house, but it's green. And

490
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 1: it was around that time that we had a lot

491
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 1: of influencers share our work, and so we grew quite

492
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 1: substantially because of that, and by the end of twenty twenty,

493
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: it was looking like, Okay, we probably need to rethink

494
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: this whole full time, yeah job thing because it was

495
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:51,239
Speaker 1: mildly unsustainable. And then we raised around a capitol at

496
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,360
Speaker 1: the end of twenty twenty to be able to quit

497
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 1: our jobs and go full time in twenty twenty one.

498
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.

499
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 2: And that would have felt like, after the three or

500
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 2: four years at one level, like a rapid turnaround, like,

501
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 2: oh my god, my full time.

502
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 1: It was terrifying. Like I distinctly remember my boss when

503
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: I quit my job, perhaps not overly kindly telling me

504
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 1: that like, this was a huge risk, and like, was

505
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: I sure I wanted to do this? And you know,

506
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: I was leaving behind stability and growth and all of

507
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,639
Speaker 1: those things, And that's that's all true. I was though

508
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 1: I think she was potentially willing me to fail. And

509
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 1: so I set out to do the opposite exactly. It

510
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: was so terrifying and it was so new to me,

511
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: like even the concept of raising capital. I had no

512
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: idea what that meant, and no one I knew had

513
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 1: done it. So it was just about figuring it out

514
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 1: as we went and taking the audience.

515
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 2: I guess on the journey, I've loved listening to you

516
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 2: talk about risk. I think it's been like a big

517
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 2: factor in not only taking on news that in itself

518
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 2: there is so much accountability, as you said, particularly at

519
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 2: high news volume times like COVID, When you're putting yourselves

520
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 2: out there as an authority, you have.

521
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 1: To get it right.

522
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 2: So it's not like normal influencer work where sure, if

523
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,439
Speaker 2: I accidentally get the name of a Mesca roll, like

524
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 2: you know, it's not really a big deal. But not

525
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 2: just that when you're leaving your job, it is. There's

526
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 2: a risk matrix that's involved. And you've talked a lot

527
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 2: about your the political investor. Or. If it was an

528
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 2: advisor giving you advice about not being reckless in either direction,

529
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 2: what did that look like for you, because in hindsight,

530
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 2: it probably feels like that was the only logical decision

531
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 2: you could have made was role with this, But at

532
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 2: the time, it's like your world is falling down. How

533
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 2: do you make late picture pivot decisions?

534
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 1: He was so hard. Again, I think having someone to

535
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 1: do it with. I often say that Sam and I

536
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 1: have very different risk appetites. He has a very high

537
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 1: risk appetite. I have, potentially in the past had a

538
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: low one. But then I also think a lot about

539
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 1: what actually goes into that definition. And like, I took

540
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: the biggest risk I could have ever taken. I quit

541
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 1: my job and better startup, Like, it doesn't get more

542
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,719
Speaker 1: risk in than that. So I'm trying to rethink and

543
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 1: recondition myself and how I think about risk. But it was, yeah,

544
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: it was about not being reckless in either direction. It

545
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: was Okay, if I'm going to take this risk, how

546
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,959
Speaker 1: do I mitigate that risk? How do I ensure that

547
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: there is that stability? Okay, it's taking a portion of

548
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 1: that funding to have a salary at the beginning from

549
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: day one, so that I'm not worried about paying rent,

550
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: I'm not worried about buying dinner. It can you know,

551
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: have that foundation of stability. And since that time, it's

552
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 1: meant being you know, very I don't want to say conservative,

553
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: but just very considered in the way that we build

554
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: this business so that we can be sustainable. So much

555
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: of news media goes really hard, really quickly and dies

556
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: a very fast death. And for us, it was we

557
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: know we have a place in this market. We need

558
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 1: to be here to stay, and we want to be

559
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: there for the audience. So that means like growing slowly

560
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 1: and sustainably, and we've done that over the past four

561
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: years since we quit our jobs. My gosh, four years,

562
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 1: Oh my god, how is that possibilities?

563
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 2: So you also mentioned that the topic of risk is

564
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,479
Speaker 2: a bit gendered, which I definitely agree with. And I

565
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 2: also think that you have been in a lot of

566
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 2: industries in your time that are heavily male dominated or

567
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 2: traditionally have been not more less and less hopefully do

568
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 2: you think that in having Sam as a male, that's

569
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,199
Speaker 2: been a powerful a powerful thing that's worked in your favor.

570
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 2: Do you think, like, how do you feel about that mix? Yeah,

571
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 2: has added a legitimacy in times where you might have

572
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,719
Speaker 2: been underestimated being so young, or how has it kind

573
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 2: of played out?

574
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I think that the bias that people

575
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: come to us with is an age thing, not a

576
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: gender lens, which is interesting. You know. I have found

577
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: certainly that our industry has a real awareness of the

578
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: gender gap and there is a big effort to rectify it,

579
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: and so I haven't felt like we are treated any

580
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: differently from one another. What I have found, though, is

581
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 1: that people don't take us seriously because we're young, and

582
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: it is quite a legacy industry, Like there are these

583
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: you know, really deeply embedded pillars of the media, like

584
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: two of them who haven't been challenged for a really

585
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: long time. And so, you know, I always talk about

586
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: the fact that the first budget lock up we went into,

587
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: we were you know, called the TikTokers, and that sort

588
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: of idea is more where I've found challenging rather than

589
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: and like there's stuff with Sam about you know. I

590
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: think we're often asked different questions about our journey and

591
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: things that we reflect on, but I don't think that

592
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: our opportunities have differed at all, which I'm really grateful

593
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: for and really easy. Yeah, I think I feel really

594
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: proud of what we've done as a partnership and how

595
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: we've supported to each other through it all.

596
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

597
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: Oh, that's really positive.

598
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 2: I'm so glad to hear that, but also interested about

599
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,239
Speaker 2: the age thing because I would love to know if

600
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 2: you do have any tips for people in the situation

601
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 2: where they're underestimated, because I think for various reasons it

602
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 2: happens a lot.

603
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, does that fuel your fire? Like I'm still talking

604
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: about it four years later, I have such a hang up.

605
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 2: No.

606
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: I think that it's to prove them wrong. Like prove

607
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: them wrong. They thought that we were a blip and

608
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: that we couldn't be taken seriously as a business in

609
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: this industry. And rather than tell them we can, we

610
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: showed them that we can. And I think, you know,

611
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: putting in the hard work to show with empirical evidence

612
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: that you are as important and have as much to

613
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: add as anyone else. I think that is so fundamental.

614
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: And you know, I often get asked by people, how

615
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: do we include young people in XYZ. I'm like, just

616
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: ask them, you just ask you know where they live

617
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: on the internet exactly, And there's so much you know,

618
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: people think that young people are this like enigma, and

619
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 1: so often it can help the business case to have

620
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: different perspectives and different voices. And I just think more

621
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: of that is absolutely a good thing. Yeah, oh my gosh.

622
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 2: So then when you did get to that point of

623
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 2: wanting to grow aggressively and have that empirical evidence to

624
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 2: back you up versus before where you were like, I

625
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 2: don't know how as muchizer as I don't what was

626
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 2: the strategy around that you have eighteen staff now or

627
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 2: is it started as the two of you? How did

628
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 2: you learn how to sell advertising or how did you

629
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 2: work out your staff? And yeah, and knowing your data

630
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 2: and how to kind of leverage that, like what and

631
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 2: you mentioned a rebrand, Yeah that didn't work, Like how

632
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 2: do you learn from those experiences and know what over

633
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 2: the last four years what's worked and what hasn't.

634
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: Honestly, it's just what you said, it's learning from the mistakes.

635
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: So for like, I remember we we hired our first person, Tara,

636
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: who I'm obsessed with and has stayed with us this

637
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: whole time. And on day one we hired her and

638
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: we were like, okay, so can you make us money now?

639
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: And she was like how, We don't know. And I

640
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: distinctly remember we were sitting in an investor's office at

641
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: the time, because obviously we didn't have an office. How

642
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: does one get an office? And we just spoke to

643
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: as many people as we could about all the different

644
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: models there were for making money in media, and I

645
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: remember it was like the stupidest thing I've ever said.

646
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: Sam and I were doing a talk for the industry

647
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: and we got up and said, we will never do advertising.

648
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: We have a different model of making money. Like how obnoxious.

649
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: Like ninety percent of our revenue now is advertising. Mistake

650
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: learned from exactly, and I think so much in those

651
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: early days we were just forced out of necessity to learn.

652
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: And so you know, we had to launch a newsletter

653
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 1: because Instagram and Facebook took news off its platform one

654
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: day because they were having a fight with the government.

655
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: You haven't got about this. Just the first week of

656
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: going full time, it was really chilled that timing. Yeah, yeah,

657
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: me too. Sitting there, I was like, Okay, so investors

658
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:20,959
Speaker 1: have just given us money for a project that like

659
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: possibly won't exist tomorrow. So that's really good. But that

660
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: forced our hand into diversification, and that was a really

661
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: important lesson that you cannot have a rented audience. You

662
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 1: need an owned audience that is not at the you know,

663
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: bequest exactly the algorithm, and so all of these lessons

664
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: that felt very difficult at the time have forced our

665
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: hand into building something that is very durable. We are

666
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 1: not reliant on one platform, we are not reliant on

667
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: revenue stream. You know, like all of these things are

668
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: so important, and I think it would be silly of

669
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: me to say that we sat down wrote a strategy

670
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: document to get here and now here. I didn't know

671
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: what a strategy document looked like. I remember the first

672
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: time we wrote a strategy I said to my mentors, so,

673
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: do you have a template, Like, where do.

674
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 2: We can do?

675
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: We all go genuinely wrote it into canva. I was like,

676
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 1: strategy documentary. Yeah, it probably came up with something. It

677
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: was your one from me exactly exactly. But it's like

678
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: I was so confused where we had all learned this,

679
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: and you know, reporting back to investors, it was like,

680
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: is there an email template? What do they want to know?

681
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: And we, you know, our first couple, I remember we

682
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: got responses saying I don't actually care about this much information,

683
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: like please say less, and I was like, okay, also

684
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: a recurring thing. All of these things have happened over time,

685
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: and we've learned from each milestone where to go. But

686
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: I think the one thing that hasn't changed is our

687
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: mission and what we intuitively know, which is we know

688
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: how to explain the news to young people. Everything else

689
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: has developed and professionalized, and that hasn't It is still

690
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 1: at the core of who we are. Yeah, and you

691
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 1: do it so well well we try to.

692
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 2: So why would you rebrand? What was the name thing?

693
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 1: Okay, So we came up with the idea for TDA

694
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: at a cafe. We came up with the colors and

695
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 1: everything that day, like immediately when we met each other,

696
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: and so I think I was like a year and

697
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: a maybe two years ago. Now we were like, all right,

698
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: this isn't very professional, Like we came up with everything

699
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: on primary colors fully primarys. Yeah, like hex COO don't

700
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 1: know her. So we decided to professionalize and do a

701
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,760
Speaker 1: bit of a rebrand and so we changed yeah bitsleek.

702
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: We were like, we'll change the colors just a little bit,

703
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: we will change how the newsletter looks, will change the

704
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: jingle for the podcast. Little did I know that you

705
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 1: can't change au fond you will be in the court

706
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: of Instagram law. And we just I think we got

707
00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: probably like fifteen thousand messages, and my funniest ones were

708
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:02,879
Speaker 1: the people that said, how dare you do this without

709
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: asking us? Okay, you are beholden to the people, do you, investors? Yeah,

710
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: we are beholden to the people, which, you know, great

711
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 1: exercise in brand buildings. Cool. We've built something that people

712
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 1: feel deeply connected, they feel like they own it. That is, yes,

713
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 1: you know, unambiguously a good thing. We had to change

714
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: our font back, we had to change everything back. I

715
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: got like a mass retraction. All Now there are university

716
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: like modules studying our rebrand and what not to do.

717
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 1: Mildly traumatizing for me, but no worries. But again we

718
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: learned we spent too much money. But we learned, you know,

719
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: like so much of who we are is that we

720
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 1: speak across from our audience, not down to them. We

721
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: don't think we're better than them. We don't have this

722
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 1: like deeply sleek professional thing like Canva went down a

723
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,399
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago when we wrote our interest rate

724
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,919
Speaker 1: update on notes apt and just posted.

725
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 2: It and we all loved it and exactly this is

726
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:00,959
Speaker 2: a trend now.

727
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: Throughout multi billion dollar company. But I think that all

728
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 1: of that goes to say that we need to maintain

729
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 1: that authenticity because that's what our audience comes for. They

730
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: can get the news from anywhere, but they come to be.

731
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 2: Wanted in that Fontabe and those colors.

732
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: I'm never separate from you again.

733
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 2: If anything, it was an incredibly brand affirming exercise. As

734
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 2: much as it felt like a sort of non success was.

735
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 1: It absolutely was, and it like it haunts me in

736
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 1: my sleep, but it was great.

737
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 2: Now. Something else that you mentioned early on, in fact,

738
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 2: at the very beginning, was the challenge to your mental

739
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 2: health of being in a relentlessly never ending, non sleep

740
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 2: inducing the industry and news cycle, and obviously mental health

741
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 2: has been a big part of your family story, and

742
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 2: I think, particularly on a podcast that is about finding joy.

743
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 2: The flip side of that is that, particularly someone like

744
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 2: you who does look so outwardly successful and directed, and

745
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 2: you seem like the most well adjusted human, so intelligent

746
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 2: and so driven, it's the color, it's the font, But

747
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 2: you suffered immeasurable grief and a shock trauma at such

748
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 2: a young age, Like it actually blows my mind to

749
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 2: think that at just twenty eight you have achieved so

750
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 2: much coming from the age of sixteen, losing your father,

751
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,879
Speaker 2: So how did you, at that crucial time of your

752
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 2: life find your way back? Like, as much as you're

753
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 2: comfortable telling you about that time.

754
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 1: One of the words that I hear a lot is resilience,

755
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: and like, oh, you were so resilient, And to me,

756
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,879
Speaker 1: there's just not another option, Like finding my way back

757
00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 1: was the only option I had to go on sixteen,

758
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: As you said, I was about to finish my year

759
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 1: twelve exams, and my dad had instilled in us so

760
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: many core values, but you know, continuing to better ourselves

761
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: and better our education and all of these things like

762
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: that was really important to him. And like my love

763
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: of the news one hundred percent comes from my dad,

764
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: Like like I think back to my childhood and it's

765
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 1: just the ABC jingle twenty four to seven, like deep

766
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 1: inside my psyche. And so now if things feel challenging,

767
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: I do have that to keep me going. It's like, well,

768
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 1: he would be so proud, Like I know fully that

769
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 1: he would be so proud because we grew up in

770
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: a household that yelled at each other about politics and

771
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: the news from like the age of I don't know what,

772
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: and he was responsible for cultivating that sort of environment,

773
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: and so I think it's look, it has added a

774
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,959
Speaker 1: lot of depth to who I am. I think that

775
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: it also allows me, though, to hopefully tell stories more sensitively.

776
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: I think that part of why we wanted to create

777
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 1: TDA was to tell the stories of young people and

778
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: tell them really meaningfully. And you know, just recently we

779
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: had the first openly bisexual player on Speak to TDA

780
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 1: and share his story, Mitch Brown, and what an incredible

781
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 1: human being he is. But being able to have created

782
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: an environment where we can have so much depth to

783
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,240
Speaker 1: the conversations and the relationships that we create, I think

784
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 1: that is what I'm really proud of. And I think

785
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 1: that is what I can directly attribute to the very

786
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: difficult times at the age of sixteen. But it's interesting

787
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 1: because I don't remember so much of that time. It's Yeah,

788
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 1: I think it's just a trauma response that like, there

789
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 1: is a full year of my life that I just

790
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: like do not remember. And then I went back to

791
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 1: school and I just kept going, and then I went

792
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: straight to UNI, and then I went straight into the workforce,

793
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: and so there's never really been a moment of pause. Yeah,

794
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: but it's nice in this job, I think because I

795
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 1: get moments like this to reflect and to have that

796
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: opportunity to just stop and think about where I've be

797
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 1: and where I'm going and you know what comes.

798
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,720
Speaker 2: Next, and that it's become a real legacy piece because

799
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 2: he has influenced so much of your passion for.

800
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: What he's doing. Yeah.

801
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 2: I just think about me at sixteen and how emotionally

802
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:34,240
Speaker 2: immature I was at that age, and the forced growing

803
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:39,280
Speaker 2: up and confronting a depth of emotion that now obviously

804
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 2: it shines through that that's sort of where it came from.

805
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 2: But that you were able to go on is so

806
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 2: extraordinary because I think it would have crushed most sixteen

807
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 2: year olds, and yet you have gone on to have

808
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 2: like not even a blip in the timeline of this

809
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 2: incredible career. That drive continued, that enthusiasm for life has continued.

810
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is interesting to see how each of us

811
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 1: have My brothers and I have done it differently. Like

812
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: one of my brothers wrote a book about my dad

813
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 1: and our family. Another brother, Zach, you know, has now

814
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 1: dedicated his life to helping people so that other families

815
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,399
Speaker 1: don't lose their dads in the way that we did.

816
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 1: And I just like that also is just really special

817
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: to me that like all of us are honoring him

818
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: in a different way, and mine is that I can't

819
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: get the ABC jingle out of my head.

820
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:27,800
Speaker 2: And you'll never change your jingles lesson less full set exactly.

821
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 1: But I just think, you know, there's I grew up

822
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 1: really quickly, and it's a blessing and a curse to

823
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 1: have that. But I think that for where I am now,

824
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,879
Speaker 1: having had that sort of life experience means that, yeah,

825
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 1: I can look at things differently, and I think that

826
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: that is probably a very good thing. Yeah.

827
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 2: Oh, so you speak about it so beautifully and it

828
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,280
Speaker 2: is I think incredibly encouraging for anyone who is perhaps

829
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 2: in the throes of grief right now. That of course

830
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 2: that never changes being part of your story, but it

831
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 2: becomes easy to speak about and to build a legacy on.

832
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 2: Do you find that it makes you more aware now

833
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 2: of looking after your mental health? And is that really

834
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 2: difficult in the context of what you do. Do you

835
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 2: have any time where you do switch off? Because part

836
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 2: of CZA is the joy that you have that's outside

837
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 2: your work. Yeah, and that was the news before you

838
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 2: made that your job. You replaced it with other forms

839
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 2: of kind of switching off.

840
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's in the process. It's had to be a

841
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: very concerted effort because it's also on social media, so

842
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:42,800
Speaker 1: I can't even you know, switch off from that. I

843
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,439
Speaker 1: was really bad at prioritizing it and have gotten way

844
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 1: better and have been very successful now at creating boundaries

845
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 1: for myself and therapy and all of the good things.

846
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: And it took me a while to get here. Like

847
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 1: at the beginning, I thought this like sense of busyness

848
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 1: and having to always look busy and feel busy was

849
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: like the sign of success. And I'm coping and exactly,

850
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 1: I'm on top of everything. I'm juggling all of these

851
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: plates and in reality, I was juggling zero of the plane,

852
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 1: so they were all crashing around me. And now I

853
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:15,839
Speaker 1: feel like I'm doing a much better job at it

854
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 1: and just taking the moments for me. You know, got

855
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: married last year, being able to feel really present there

856
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: and present with my partner. He's also building his own company,

857
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: so that's a fun household to be of two people, like,

858
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,320
Speaker 1: oh my god, well, this job because tomorrow and finding

859
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 1: those pockets of joy are more important than anything, you know,

860
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 1: rediscovering content, not from a content brain has been something

861
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 1: important to me, like not reading stuff to you know,

862
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: speak about it better or talk about it on a podcast,

863
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: but just to be able to read something for the

864
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 1: sake of reading it. So had to turn away from

865
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 1: nonfiction for a really long time because I was like,

866
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,399
Speaker 1: I just need fiction and just read. Finding that love

867
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: has been so important for me. Yeah.

868
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 2: Sorry, this is just a random question that doesn't logically

869
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,399
Speaker 2: fit into the all of that at all, but.

870
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:09,319
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about it a lot.

871
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 2: And one thing that really frustrates me sometimes is that

872
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:16,359
Speaker 2: good news, which is like our page is all about

873
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 2: sharing good news stories, is so much harder to access,

874
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 2: so much less prolific, and just performs a lot less

875
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:26,879
Speaker 2: because I don't know, humans just have this like intensity

876
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 2: towards tragedy and controversy. When you watch the metrics of

877
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 2: what goes well, do you find good news is getting more?

878
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 1: I love this question so much so when we started,

879
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 1: a lot of people taught us I don't read the

880
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 1: news because it's too depressing. I was like, okay, noted,

881
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 1: I'm going to fix that, and so from day one

882
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: we've always had a good news story. It's the hardest

883
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: thing to find, but right always always the hardest thing

884
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: to find, like whoever is tasked with that on the day,

885
00:45:54,680 --> 00:46:02,320
Speaker 1: it's like, great is the indangered species. It's no longer endangered,

886
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 1: but it has been. One of the most gratifying parts

887
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 1: of it all is having that constant good news. And

888
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 1: so last year I launched a weekly good newsletter and

889
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 1: on a Sunday it's like the one piece of contient

890
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: that I still do. I, together with some of my team,

891
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 1: write a good newsletter that is filled with nothing but goodness,

892
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 1: nothing but good news, and so we friend it's just

893
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 1: the best and like it makes me go into the

894
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: week feeling better about the world. Like I wrote about

895
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 1: on Sunday, I wrote about a woman who for her

896
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 1: birthday she was a cancer survivor and she had gone

897
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 1: to the hospital where she had received treatment, stood outside

898
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: and paid for everyone's parking. And it's just those small

899
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 1: stories that you just like. In media, the common refrain

900
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,280
Speaker 1: is if it bleeds, it leads. So if it's gore,

901
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: if it's crime, whatever it is, like, that's what leads,

902
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,359
Speaker 1: that's what gets eyeballs. I'm like, no, we're not doing that.

903
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 1: We need to change the narrative again. It's this conditioning

904
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 1: audience want that because they've always gotten it, and like

905
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 1: our Good newsletter has fifty thousand subscribers, there are so

906
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: many people who want it, who desire that like goodness

907
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 1: in the world, and it's not celebrities doing crazy things.

908
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:16,840
Speaker 1: It's just everyday people doing beautiful, beautiful, giving generous things.

909
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 1: And so I feel so strongly about good news that

910
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 1: it needs to be part of a media diet because

911
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,319
Speaker 1: otherwise you turn away from it all and I understand why,

912
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 1: and again I want to stop that.

913
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so glad I remember that question because I

914
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 2: think about it all the time when I'm like, I

915
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 2: just am never going to compete with the actual like

916
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 2: intense news cycle because it doesn't have that shock. Fact, yeah,

917
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 2: good news doesn't have It has warmth, but it doesn't

918
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 2: have shock. And I love that. You're like, no, I'm

919
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 2: putting it in there anyway. Yeah, because it's important.

920
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:48,800
Speaker 1: It's important, and it's important for us as like fully

921
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 1: formed humans to know more about what is happening that

922
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:54,840
Speaker 1: is good in the world and to highlight that humanity

923
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,800
Speaker 1: is really good. It's really good, and we just don't

924
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 1: hear enough about it. Yeah. Oh yeah, well, Zara thank

925
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: you so much.

926
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 2: Congratulations on everything that you're doing, and I can't wait

927
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 2: to see you go from strength to strength in the

928
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 2: right colors and in the right fond.

929
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 1: Well, now that we're family, I mean thank you for

930
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 1: having me.

931
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 2: It is such a funny world where you feel like

932
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,839
Speaker 2: you know someone well before you meet them, even though

933
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 2: you've just followed each other online for a really long time.

934
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 2: But it's even lovelier when you do finally take that

935
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 2: relationship into the real world. Zara is so clever articular

936
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 2: doing such incredible work. I personally wouldn't be able to

937
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 2: keep up with the new cycle without TDA. And if

938
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:41,240
Speaker 2: you enjoyed listening along, please do share the episode, tagging

939
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:43,839
Speaker 2: Zara and us to keep growing the neighborhood as far

940
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 2: and wide as possible.

941
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:47,240
Speaker 1: Every little bit counts.

942
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 2: If you haven't seen, we have released tickets to our

943
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 2: first live show in so long with the incredible guest

944
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:59,360
Speaker 2: Headley Thomas, raising funds for Safe Steps, and we've nearly.

945
00:48:59,200 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: Sold out already.

946
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 2: I had no idea that was going to happen, but

947
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 2: I will pop the links in the show notes along

948
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 2: with more information, and in the meantime, I hope you're

949
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 2: having a wonderful week and seizing your yay