1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Hello, lovely neighborhood. I hope you're having a wonderful start 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: to the year. As you know, we're taking a couple 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,719 Speaker 1: of weeks break from the show to recover from the 4 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,879 Speaker 1: madness of twenty twenty, but also to implement one of 5 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: the biggest lessons we had from last year, which is 6 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: to every now and then take a moment to step back, 7 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: take a bird's eye view, and just have a look 8 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 1: at what's working, what isn't working, what you want more of, 9 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: what you want less of in the podcast, but of 10 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: course in life as well, and in that process, if 11 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: you haven't already seen on the Facebook group, I've made 12 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: a little serve YEA to make sure that I'm including 13 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: as much yaghborhood feedback as I can as well while 14 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 1: we plan out what's to come for this year on 15 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: the show. 16 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 2: There couldn't be. 17 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: Anything more important than your feedback and suggestions to make 18 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 1: sure that I'm putting exactly the ya in your ears 19 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: every week that you actually want and need. So I'll 20 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: pop the link in the show notes, and in the meantime, 21 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: I'm releasing a couple of our crowd favorites from the 22 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: last year in case you met any of them so 23 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: that you still have some yea to catch up on. 24 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: Ignore some of the time specific references, but otherwise most 25 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: of them are pretty evergreen. So I hope you enjoy 26 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:10,119 Speaker 1: as much as I did. 27 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 3: There is no conventional path, or like the conventional path 28 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 3: is actually the unconventional path. Right, You will stop worrying 29 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 3: so much what people think about you when you realize 30 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 3: how seldom they do. 31 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Seize the Yay Podcast. 32 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 4: Busy and happy are not the same thing. We too 33 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 4: rarely question what makes the heart seeing. We work, then 34 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 4: we rest, but rarely we play and often don't realize 35 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 4: there's more than one way. So this is a platform 36 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 4: to hear and explore the stories of. 37 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,919 Speaker 2: Those who found lives They adore the good, bad and ugly. 38 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: The best and worst day will bear all the facets 39 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: of seizing your yea. I'm Sarah Davidson or a spoonful 40 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: of Sarah, a lawyer turned funentrepreneur who swapped the suits 41 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: and heels to co found matcha Maiden and matcha Milk Bar. 42 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: Sez the Ya is a series of conversations on finding 43 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: a life you love and exploring self doubt, challenge, joy, 44 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: and fulfillment. 45 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 4: Along the way. 46 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: I'm one hundred percent sure some of you will be 47 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: eye rolling at me when I say that this is 48 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: one of my favorite chats to date, but I think 49 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 1: you might agree once you actually have a listen. I'm 50 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: gonna have to cut myself short in this intro because 51 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,959 Speaker 1: there is so much I could say about why Mark 52 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: Manson is one of my favorite people in the world, 53 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: but the episode itself makes it clearer than I could hear. 54 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: Best known as the author of groundbreaking New York Times 55 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: bestseller The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck, I 56 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: once mistook Mark's refreshingly anti self help approach to life 57 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 1: to be the opposite of seizing the a. In fact, 58 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 1: it's not that he thinks we should give no fucks 59 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 1: at all, but choose our fucks more carefully, and it's 60 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: no surprise that he's witty. No bullshit delivery has taken 61 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: the world by storm. Like all our guests, however, mars 62 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:57,079 Speaker 1: Waytya has been anything but predictable, going from feeling misplaced 63 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: in his Texan hometown, getting a complete ego breakdown at 64 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: music school, starting his working life as a pickup artist, 65 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: or before becoming an author, was even on the table, 66 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: and yet he's now sold over ten million books, changed 67 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: millions of lives, and has been trusted with writing the 68 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: autobiography and first ever full account of the life of 69 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: Will Smith. Mark is a personality of so many contrasts 70 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: and facets, and is open about every single one of them, 71 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 1: including way more than I probably needed to know about 72 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: his bodily functions. I dare you to listen without laughing, 73 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: so you can definitely tell we've both lost our marbles 74 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: more than a few times. In between the hilarity, though, 75 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: there are so many deep, insightful reflections on life that 76 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: I hope are as groundbreaking to you as they were 77 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: to me. Mark Manson, Welcome to CZA. 78 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:51,119 Speaker 3: It's good to be here. 79 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: I am so so delighted to have you here after 80 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: our chat a couple of weeks ago. It's so nice 81 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: to see you again with a microphone. I'm blown away. 82 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 3: Of course. Of course I always come prepare. 83 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: So professional, yes, so I usually start with a little 84 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: icebreaker for every episode, but I've added another one recently, 85 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: which is just to ask how you are, because I 86 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: think in this crazy, crazy, weird hurricane that twenty twenty 87 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: has turned out to be connecting with other humans and 88 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: just touching base on. 89 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:22,359 Speaker 3: How Yeah it is important. 90 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 2: So how are you going over in New York? 91 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 3: So you know, this isn't the answer you're supposed to give, 92 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 3: but like, I'm fucking great. This is really I would 93 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 3: like the first month was really rough, and there was 94 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 3: a lot of it. It was like emotionally stressful and 95 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 3: physically stressful, and I missed my friends and everything. But 96 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 3: I'd say by by month two, I settled into this 97 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 3: group and I've just been so healthy and so productive, 98 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 3: and my wife and I are getting along great. I mean, 99 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 3: I still miss my friends, but I talked to him 100 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 3: on the phone and on Zoom and everything. But like 101 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 3: things have been pretty awesome. So like to the point 102 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 3: where my wife like, so New York is technically opening 103 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 3: up this week, and my wife and I were like, 104 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 3: I don't want to go out? Do you want to go? 105 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 1: No? 106 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 3: I don't want to Like why would we go out? 107 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 3: This is crazy? Like let's just just keep it going. 108 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I feel that so much. 109 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 1: We've been exactly the same, Like that initial transition into 110 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: a new routine with sort of like you get a 111 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: little claustrophobic and then worried about uncertainty and like what's 112 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: going to happen, And then you just fall into acceptance 113 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: and realize you can just be the introvert that you. 114 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 2: Kind of always were. 115 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, just be super antisocial and you don't need an 116 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 1: excuse anymore. I'm like, this is amazing. It's just what 117 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: I always wanted to do. Anyway. 118 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 3: It's and it's so easy to turn things down, to 119 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 3: say no to things, like it's great. It's just all 120 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 3: of that kind of like obnoxious. You know, I don't know, 121 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 3: like the happy hours that you don't really want to 122 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 3: go to but so and so invited you, and you've 123 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 3: turned down the last two things. You know, it's like 124 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 3: you don't have to worry about that stuff anymore. Like 125 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 3: it's like I'm not seeing anybody, so not even a question. Yeah. 126 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: I also ready you wrote that your time and agency 127 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 1: has completely gone. I was like, yeah, that's exactly what happened. 128 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: Everything's just moved into this kind of like weird vortex 129 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: of just chill at home and I'm like, I love 130 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: not knowing what day it is. Yeah, it's like school holidays. 131 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I mean weekends, Like every day is kind 132 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 3: of a weekend, but not like I'll work through one 133 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 3: weekend depending on what I'm doing, and then I'll take 134 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 3: like a random Thursday off and like just like completely 135 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 3: guilt free. Whatever. 136 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 1: It took this for us to take advantage of the 137 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: life structure that we have already, Like we already don't 138 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: have a nine to five, and we already were able 139 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: to go guilt free and allow ourselves to rejig our 140 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: work over weekends and take you know, swat weekends for weekdays. 141 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: But we didn't do it before because it was like 142 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: this weird social construct of like guilt that you shouldn't 143 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: do that. But I'm like, I left corporate to do that, 144 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: and then I haven't allowed myself to do that. 145 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 3: It's so weird. Yeah, I've always felt like in the past, 146 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 3: when I've tried to do that, it's been hard because 147 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 3: a lot of my friends and family are in the 148 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 3: corporate world. A lot of the people I work with 149 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 3: are in the corporate do the Monday and Friday nine 150 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 3: to five, you know, my agent and my publishers and 151 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 3: all that. So it's like to kind of be optimal, 152 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 3: you kind of have to at. 153 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 2: Least align with them a little bit. 154 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, like be with them like around like ninety percent 155 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 3: of the time. But now it's just like who cares whatever. 156 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean if you weren't giving fucks before, you're 157 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: definitely not giving them now, which is amazing. 158 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh no, it's I mean it's weird in that way, right, 159 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 3: and that it's I think on an individual level, it's 160 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 3: been very clarifying for people in terms of like what 161 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 3: you actually value in your life and what is actually 162 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 3: a good use of time. And that's great, like that's 163 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 3: a great feeling. But then on a social level, it's 164 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 3: absolutely disastrous on a lot of different dimensions at the 165 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 3: same time. So it's this weird dichotomy going on where 166 00:07:55,640 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 3: it's like, well, this is strangely, I don't know, like 167 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 3: like a growth moment as an individual, but you know, socially, 168 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 3: just shit has said in the fan. 169 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 2: Shit is definitely hitting the fan. 170 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: And that leads really nicely to the actual first icebreaker 171 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: for every every episode, which is just asking people what 172 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: the most down to a thing is about them and 173 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: cutting straight through the glossy surface that I think the 174 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: digital world allows us to create around our identity, or 175 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: not even to create, but just it's it's hard to 176 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: really cut through and show the real relatable stuff. But 177 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: I think you were so good at it, even the 178 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: fact that fuck came out in like the first three 179 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: words of what you said. 180 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,079 Speaker 3: I mean, do you really want the most down there 181 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 3: things about me? 182 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 2: Absolutely? 183 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: Like the grittier and the weirder the better. That's what 184 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: this show is all about. 185 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:51,079 Speaker 3: So I'm a very gassy person. Yes, incredibly. My feet 186 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:55,559 Speaker 3: don't sweat. So what I always tell my wife, I 187 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 3: always tell my wife. You guys, think the good with 188 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 3: the bad, you know, like my feet never smell. That's amazing, 189 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 3: you know, depending on what I yeah, depending on what 190 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 3: I ate. You know, it's some nights better than others. 191 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 2: I mean, you balance right out, Like that's the. 192 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: Definition of balance, right, You're just total compromise walking. 193 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 2: I love that. 194 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: And you know what, I think so many people's answer 195 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: to that question, like real answer is that. 196 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 2: They're really gassy. 197 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: You are the first person that just went there, and 198 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: I love that you You've You've probably opened the floodgates 199 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: now to every other person. 200 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 3: I think I think you should just change the icebreaker 201 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 3: from now on to how gassy are you? Yeah, scale. 202 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 2: On a scale of one to Mark Manson, like where 203 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 2: do you sit? What a great start. 204 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: So the very first section is your Way ta, which 205 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,559 Speaker 1: is I sort of try and show the fact that 206 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: every pathway is nonlinear. You can end up anywhere that 207 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: you aspire to end up. And you know, the quote 208 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: that I always use for this section is you don't 209 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: have to see the whole staircase to take the first step. 210 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: And I use people's stories in the Rollercoaster of how 211 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:18,679 Speaker 1: many different directions they went in and how many different 212 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 1: places they've been to show that, Yeah, at any one time, 213 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 1: you can change your life, and you can come from 214 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: all sorts of different backgrounds, all the way back to childhood. 215 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: And I love going through the decisions that you made 216 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 1: at each stage. So take us back to the very beginning, 217 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 1: Young Mark in Austin, Texas, which I've heard you say 218 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: you didn't really get along with, which actually doesn't surprise 219 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: me in any way. 220 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know, Austin is like the the 221 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 3: hot spot these days, like it's people love it here 222 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 3: in the US. Everybody's moving there. But what I always 223 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 3: have to explain to people, I mean, Austin's a very 224 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 3: cool place. Now, it's a lot of fun but when 225 00:10:57,679 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 3: I was a kid back in the eighties, it was 226 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 3: tax you know, like it wasn't really like it was 227 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 3: the cool part of Austin was like, you know, four 228 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 3: square blocks downtown and like everything outside of that, you're 229 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 3: in Bubba Country. And uh, it's so. I grew up 230 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 3: in Bubba Country, you know, like in the suburbs way 231 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 3: out outside of Austin, and I went to schools that 232 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 3: taught us how to ride horses and square dance, and 233 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 3: I didn't learn you know, I was taught that like 234 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 3: the Civil War wasn't about slavery, like all this shit 235 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,079 Speaker 3: like that I went to I had. I went to 236 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 3: church three times a week, so it was like Bible 237 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 3: Belt Southern United States. And yeah, that's not me, it's 238 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 3: it's probably I won't take people very long to figure 239 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 3: out that the guy with fuck on the cover of 240 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 3: his book isn't really into the Bible Belt. 241 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,079 Speaker 1: I mean that in itself is already such an indicator 242 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 1: that you can outgrow your beginnings in any. 243 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:54,559 Speaker 2: Direction that you want. I mean, amazing. 244 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, So you know, I'm always care of you know what, 245 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 3: I'm careful talking about my childhood because it was so 246 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 3: blessed and privileged in so many ways, you know, like 247 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:12,439 Speaker 3: my my father was very successful, had a nice house, 248 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 3: lived in a nice neighborhood. Everything was very safe, so 249 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 3: you know, in terms of like on the lower in 250 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 3: terms of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, like the lower levels 251 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 3: in my childhood were always taken care of. You know, 252 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 3: there wasn't violence or abuse or anything like that. It 253 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 3: was the higher levels that were a problem. You know. 254 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 3: I just I didn't relate. I was the angsty fourteen 255 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,559 Speaker 3: year old with greasy hair and a Marilyn Manson T 256 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:42,559 Speaker 3: shirt who like listened to Metallica, you know, and read, 257 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 3: you know, it was really into reading philosophy, and so 258 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 3: it just I just didn't fit in, you know. And 259 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 3: it's as soon as I got to that age, you know, 260 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 3: got to adolescence where you start the brain starts to 261 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 3: develop into those higher Maso's higher needs in his hierarchy, 262 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 3: it was a lot of social isolation and unhappiness. So 263 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 3: very happy childhood, very angsty and angry adolescents. And I 264 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 3: decided at a very young age that these people are 265 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 3: all full of shit. I don't believe a single thing 266 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 3: that I've been taught about the world, about life about anything. 267 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 3: You know, it kind of helped that the Internet came around, 268 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 3: you know, around around this time too, and so I 269 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 3: just decided, you know, I'm going to start at square one. 270 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 3: I'm going to figure things out myself. So went to 271 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 3: the library, checked out books on Buddhism and Hinduism and 272 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 3: philosophy and spirituality and meditation and all these things, and 273 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 3: just started kind of exploring knowledge in general on my own. 274 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that is so fascinating. And you know, 275 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: I think there are so many people actually who from 276 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 1: very very early on, like before really even makes sense, 277 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: felt at odds with their early early environment. And I 278 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: think so sometimes we think that you're always going to 279 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: be a product of your environment, but absolutely not. I 280 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: think from very early on, you know, when you start 281 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: to question and you can feel like you don't belong 282 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: where you are, And I love that you went straight 283 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: to like, how can I find out more what bigger 284 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: world is out there for me? You don't have to 285 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: be constrained by where you start off, and that's in childhood, 286 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: but in any other stage that you go along, you 287 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: can any time decide that you don't fit and you'll 288 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: find the next best place for you, So I love 289 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: that you then, once the Internet was discovered, sort of 290 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: became a little bit of an online gamer and became 291 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: a little bit rebellious. I'm just not surprising that you 292 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: had a bit of a rebellious phase with you know, 293 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: psychedelics and like a bit of a colorful childhood there. 294 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 2: How did you then work your. 295 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: Way into a degree in international business and what led 296 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: you to think that that might be the next best 297 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: pathway for you. 298 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 3: That's a good question. I kind of wonder what the 299 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 3: hell I was doing myself, not. 300 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 2: To sa psychedelics obviously. 301 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 3: Well, I originally went to school for music, you know. 302 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 3: The thing that really yeah, the thing that really got 303 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 3: me through adolescents was music, playing listening music. I got 304 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 3: pretty good at guitar, so that like won me some 305 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 3: points with my peers. It was kind of the center 306 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 3: of my social identity as an adolescent. It's what I depended. 307 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 3: It's how I got my self esteem, It's how I 308 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 3: got approval from other kids, It's how it was how 309 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 3: I was known by everybody at my schools. I was 310 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 3: the guitar guy, and so it just kind of was 311 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 3: logical that I should go to music school. Funny thing. 312 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 3: You get the music school and suddenly you're in a 313 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 3: situation where every single person in the room is as 314 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 3: good as you, if not better than you. So you 315 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 3: go from a situation where it's like, I'm by far 316 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 3: the best guitarist in my high school, and it's what 317 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 3: everybody is like, Oh my god, Mark is so good, 318 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 3: he's so he's so talented, he's so cool. And then 319 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 3: I go to this other environment where it's like everybody's 320 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 3: a badass and I actually, as a freshman, I kind 321 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 3: of sucked compared to them. 322 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: Low level badass, Yeah, entry level for sure. 323 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 3: Yeah. So music school was actually I would describe it 324 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 3: as a healthy experience of ego destruction and that everything 325 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 3: that I kind of depended on for my my personal 326 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 3: validation and self esteem just got obliterated within like six months. 327 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 3: And it was a very difficult thing to grapple with. 328 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 3: But I think coming out of that and realizing like 329 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 3: you're okay, you know, you're good at other things, and 330 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 3: people like you for other reasons, and you you know 331 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 3: you can do other things, it's a I think that's 332 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 3: a very important experience that we all need to have 333 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 3: when we're young or at some point in our lives, 334 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 3: but preferably when we're young, to know that we can, 335 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 3: to know that we could kind of survive that, you know. 336 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 3: So then I transferred out of music school to I 337 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 3: guess what you call it a normal university, and and 338 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 3: I didn't know what the hell I wanted to do. 339 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 3: And I started out business and I got about halfway 340 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,400 Speaker 3: through a business degree. My dad is a business owner, 341 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 3: an entrepreneur, He owns his own company. So I would 342 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 3: go to school for business at UNI, and then I 343 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 3: would work the summers at my dad's company. I would 344 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 3: work on the factory floor and just hang out with 345 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 3: him and ask him questions about the business. And after 346 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 3: two years of that, I realized that I was learning 347 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,360 Speaker 3: like five times as much talking to my dad during 348 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 3: the summer than I was from the actual business classes 349 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 3: I was taking and paying all this money for. 350 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 1: I can't imagine you having that much patience for that. 351 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 1: I can imagine you just being like, this system doesn't work. 352 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 3: I mean, I loved college because I mean I just 353 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 3: partied all the time, you know. So I found class 354 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 3: easy because it was self directed, so it was like 355 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 3: I could study on my own time. And then, you know, 356 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 3: I had. My dad is like kind of a badass 357 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 3: of what he does, so I would I would take 358 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 3: like an accounting class or or whatever. And I'm like 359 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 3: in there, I'm like, yeah, this is Dad told me 360 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 3: about this like a year ago, you know, like why 361 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 3: I don't need to study this? So I go drink 362 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 3: every night and it was great. It was the time 363 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 3: of my life. 364 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: Do you know something that I love so much about you? 365 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 1: I loved it about your book, and it has been 366 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:25,199 Speaker 1: amazing to discover that you are exactly like that in person, 367 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: That you are incredibly self aware in a way that 368 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: belies your use of profanities, in the way that you 369 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 1: describe things. There's been like there's so much self reflection 370 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: on social constructs and our identity and the deconstruction of 371 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,360 Speaker 1: ego and all these things that are so advanced in 372 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 1: self reflection that you don't expect would come from someone 373 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: who described themself once as a sexless neophyte. 374 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 2: Like you're such. 375 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: A person of contrast. But I think that's why the 376 00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: cutthrough of where you ended up has been so strong, 377 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: because you don't come at it from this weird, like 378 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: you know, philosophical academic basis. You come from this like 379 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,719 Speaker 1: really grounded sense of real life experience, like yeah, I 380 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 1: was magneicalm Maloudie, super smart, but also like drinking my 381 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: way through college. 382 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 2: Amazing. I love that about you. 383 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny because I think the contrast, the contrast 384 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 3: you're describing about my personality. It's something that I notice. 385 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 3: So my books do, I mean, they do well in 386 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 3: the United States. They do really well in the United States, 387 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 3: but they did like and everywhere, but Australia and Canada 388 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 3: in particular. Like, it's funny when I talk to people 389 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 3: and audiences and journalists and stuff from Australia and Canada, 390 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 3: it's like there's an appreciation for that, Whereas when I 391 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 3: talk to people and journalists and things like that in 392 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 3: the United States and in Britain, there's kind of like 393 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 3: a so what's going on? Who? Like they're suspicion. They're like, 394 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 3: you're not for real, right, Like you're just pulling one 395 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:05,919 Speaker 3: over on us, Like you can't actually be like this, 396 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 3: Like you're either really smart and pretending to be a 397 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 3: cool guy, or you're actually a cool guy who's pretending 398 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 3: to be smart, Like you can't be both at the 399 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 3: same time. It's like I go to Australia and I 400 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 3: just feel like it just feels like a party, Like 401 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 3: it just feels like. 402 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 2: We're your people, right, Like we get that. That's all 403 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 2: of us in college. 404 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 3: I love of you guys. Yeah, totally, yeah, you get it. Anyway, 405 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:30,199 Speaker 3: It's a tangent. 406 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 2: I mean, I love tangents. 407 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: This whole show is a tangent basically, which is why 408 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,199 Speaker 1: it's my favorite thing. There's like a loose structure and 409 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 1: then it's like, oh, you're bladder and Bell tell me more. 410 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: But I mean, I think another thing that's so interesting 411 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:51,479 Speaker 1: about you, and probably why people are slightly suspicious, is 412 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: because we're so used to this conventional idea of career 413 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: pathways and self discovery and yours just doesn't fit into 414 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 1: those conventions. But most people do, and that's why it's 415 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 1: so relatable, and you're really bringing to the forefront of 416 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,679 Speaker 1: our attention the idea that you can become an author 417 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,199 Speaker 1: without going to writing school and thinking that you're going 418 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: to be a writer and having books in your library 419 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 1: when you're five. Like, I love that you have proven 420 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: that you don't have to decide to kind of late 421 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: after a whole career as a pickup artist. 422 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:25,159 Speaker 3: What Oh god, I didn't realize you're gonna bring that up. 423 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:30,199 Speaker 1: Of course, that's like, oh god, big section for what 424 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: is it? 425 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,199 Speaker 2: Entropy was your game? And a yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, 426 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 2: like that's coming out. 427 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 3: Oh god. No. Well, so here's the funny thing. So 428 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 3: I decided in UNI or I might as well just 429 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 3: take the classes. I like, like, here's the funny thing. 430 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 3: You actually just mentioned it about there is no conventional path, 431 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 3: or like the conventional path is actually the unconventional path, right, 432 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 3: it's most people actually don't follow the conventional path. One 433 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 3: thing that music school taught me, and it's definitely true 434 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 3: with writing, and I think it's true with business as well, 435 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,719 Speaker 3: is that when I got to music school, it was 436 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 3: so clear, like you could kind of do the math 437 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 3: and figure out that like, okay, out of say one 438 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 3: hundred kids in my class in music school, there's really 439 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 3: only room in the music industry for maybe like a 440 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 3: dozen of us. Like it's the type of industry that 441 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 3: either you make it or you don't, and if you 442 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 3: make it, you get all the gigs, and if you don't, 443 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 3: you get none of them. And what I realized, like 444 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 3: the reason I left is because it was just so 445 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 3: clear within the first year that it's like, Okay, those 446 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,199 Speaker 3: ten guys and girls are going to make it and 447 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 3: the rest of us are going to fight for the scraps. 448 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 3: And I realize I'm like, Okay, those ten guys and girls, 449 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 3: they don't actually have to be here. They're so good 450 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 3: that they could go be professionals right now. They're just 451 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 3: here to get the piece of paper. So I kind 452 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 3: of I think most things are like that. It's like, 453 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 3: if you're if you're really good at business, or have 454 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,640 Speaker 3: an aptitude for it, or have a passion for it, 455 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 3: you don't need business school. Like the business school. It's 456 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 3: just it's a formality, it's a it's a it's a 457 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 3: credential to show people who are skeptical of you. And 458 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 3: that's kind of what I realized too with Like with 459 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:05,919 Speaker 3: my dad, I'm like, oh, I don't actually need my 460 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 3: business classes if I'm ever going to start a business, 461 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 3: like I just need to find really smart people and 462 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 3: ask them smart questions, you know. And it's definitely true 463 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,959 Speaker 3: with writing. Most people who go to school for writing 464 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 3: don't become authors. It's a very unpleasant secret of writing 465 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 3: schools and writing programs it's just that none of them 466 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,719 Speaker 3: become authors. It's and all the authors they never planned 467 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 3: on writing like it just well a lot of them do, 468 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 3: but like a lot of it's not like a thing 469 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 3: that they studied necessarily. 470 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 2: That's such a good point. 471 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a I kind of describe my law 472 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: degree as a really really expensive, long winded way of 473 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: biding my time to kind of get the piece of paper, 474 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: have an amazing backup plan, like I always have a 475 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,879 Speaker 1: wonderful plan B. And the first three years where I 476 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: did work in corporate was that there's something to be 477 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,159 Speaker 1: said for the fact that you don't necessarily need it. 478 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 1: I definitely didn't for what I do now, But I 479 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: couldn't have started what I do now when I graduated UNI. 480 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: I was just too young. I had no idea what 481 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: I wanted to do. And again, you needed to go 482 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: through a whole career before you got to where you 483 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: are now. And it's not that like you can't have 484 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:16,880 Speaker 1: skipped that to get to where you are. 485 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what I mean. 486 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 1: Like, even though you didn't need that to get to 487 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: where you are now, technically you could have started writing earlier, 488 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,679 Speaker 1: but the time that that allowed you like, there's a 489 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: reason why a lot of us do degrees we don't 490 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 1: end up using. It's not that we you know, they 491 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 1: were never a waste. It's just that sometimes you need 492 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: to mature and like get out in the world and 493 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:36,439 Speaker 1: figure out who you are before you know what the 494 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: thing is that you're going to be successful in. 495 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 3: Absolutely, Absolutely, it's a constantly evolving process of trying something out, 496 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 3: seeing how it feels, and then deviating. And what's amazing too, 497 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 3: is not only do you have to do that to 498 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 3: kind of get to where you're really happy and satisfied, 499 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 3: but even once you've found that spot where you're happy 500 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 3: and satisfied, the spot moves, you know. So it's like 501 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,880 Speaker 3: the things that I loved about my job five years ago, 502 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 3: I don't necessarily love them as much today. There's other 503 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 3: things that I love today, you know. And so there's 504 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,719 Speaker 3: like a constant flexibility that you kind of need to 505 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 3: develop within yourself. 506 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that's the best SoundBite I ever could 507 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 2: have gotten from you. I'm like, Okay, we can finish now. 508 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 2: That's amazing. All right, good night bye. 509 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 1: The last chapter of my book is actually the big 510 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: quote on it is yay is a journey, not a destination. 511 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:28,679 Speaker 2: And that's so true. 512 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,159 Speaker 1: Everything in our life is geared towards this idea that 513 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,880 Speaker 1: there's this static point of like, yes, I made it, 514 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: but actually the point it's like constantly evolving your comfort zone. 515 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 1: You step out of it, it catches up to you, step 516 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: out of it catches up to you. So I think 517 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: if we see our way to ya is evolving in 518 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 1: chapters rather than like just this one static journey, you 519 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: understand the process better, you embrace it more, and then 520 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: you do stay more open minded to like, this happiness 521 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: right now might not be where I am in five 522 00:25:55,640 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: years totally, which leads amazingly to your trendition from international 523 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: business magnetum Lauder graduate to discovering the Game, which if 524 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: no one has heard of this book, like there's a 525 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:13,400 Speaker 1: whole thing around the game, read about it. It will 526 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 1: explain to you why Mark entered what is actually a 527 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: full community. And then transitioning in twenty ten from out 528 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 1: of the community, from pick up artistry to civilian life and. 529 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:29,160 Speaker 2: Then onto onto authorship. 530 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 1: Are you regretting that you commit a lot of your 531 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,640 Speaker 1: thoughts at certain times in your life to writing, because 532 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: I've found a lot of great material. 533 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 3: Oh well, you definitely did your research. You know, the 534 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 3: pick up artist thing. It's so funny to talk about 535 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 3: that today because it doesn't really exist anymore. Like, well, 536 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 3: I'll explain why, but I guess first to give people 537 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 3: a little bit of background on like what it was. 538 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,399 Speaker 3: So basically pick up ours community was back in the 539 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 3: early two thousands when social media first started, and forums 540 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 3: and Reddit and all this stuff was just coming online. Realize, 541 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 3: like there are certain communities that were maybe a little 542 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 3: bit taboo, like things that were too taboo to talk 543 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,680 Speaker 3: about that in person or the former group in person, 544 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 3: that for some reason online it became comfortable, Like you know, 545 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 3: thoughts that you had that maybe you didn't want to 546 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 3: like say out loud to people in a room, you 547 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,400 Speaker 3: could go online anonymously and post somewhere and find out 548 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 3: that wait, wait, you know, there's tons of other people 549 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 3: who feel this way. And I think one of those 550 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 3: was men who were very insecure around their sexuality, around 551 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 3: their dating lives, around their ability to attract women, to 552 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 3: be attractive to women. They it's it's something that men 553 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 3: we don't It never feels appropriate to actually talk about 554 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 3: that to our guy friends because our guy friends would 555 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 3: like make fun of us and tell. 556 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: Us or like you look like and your gassiness is 557 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: just it's you know, it's a deal breaker, really exactly. 558 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 3: Maybe if you're less gassy mind. 559 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 1: Maybe you should say it gestion specialist. Maybe that's where 560 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: things will really change for you for the better. 561 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 3: Yeah. So this community emerged of all these guys who 562 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,640 Speaker 3: are like, yeah, like girls don't like me, I don't 563 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 3: know how to get a date, I'm single, and I'm 564 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 3: miserable and blah blah blah. And it was kind of 565 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 3: the first time ever that men felt comfortable to come 566 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 3: together in groups and have these conversations, which I think 567 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 3: is a great thing. I still think it's a great thing. 568 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 3: The problem is is that, you know, as anybody who's 569 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,159 Speaker 3: used the Internet knows, there are a lot of shitty 570 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 3: people out there. And pretty soon a large segment of 571 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 3: the community became dominated by people by men who were 572 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 3: very manipulative, had a lot of like sleazy tactics and 573 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 3: tricks things to say the women, like trick them into 574 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 3: like coming on a date with them or whatever. So 575 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 3: there was a huge book in two thousand and five 576 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 3: called The Game, which kind of described this whole community 577 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 3: and a lot of these tactics and tricks and blah 578 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 3: blah blah. I read that as a as a student 579 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 3: at UNI, you know, in between my cag parties and. 580 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 2: Important, right, like really important. 581 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 3: That was blown away. And it was funny because the 582 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,239 Speaker 3: advice in the book itself was terrible, like it's just 583 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 3: the cheesiest, sleaziest stuff. Like within a week, I'm like, 584 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 3: this is awful. I'm never gonna say this again. But 585 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 3: I found I got online, and I found that there 586 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 3: was a whole you know, this whole community of men 587 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 3: and they're sharing it and there's a lot of there's 588 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 3: a very wide variety of perspectives in that community of 589 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 3: a lot of guys, you know, wanted to have more 590 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 3: integrity and be honest about what they were trying to do, 591 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 3: and a lot of men were like very sleazy and whatever. 592 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 3: So jump ahead, like a couple of years. I get 593 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 3: out of school, and the economies in the toilets two 594 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 3: thousand and seven, biggest recession and like ever worst job 595 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 3: market ever, and I have no idea what I'm gonna do, 596 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 3: And so I started doing like freelance web design and 597 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 3: marketing work and stuff like that and just to make 598 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 3: a few bucks. And I read Tim Ferriss for our 599 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 3: work Week and he was talking about like, you know, oh, 600 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 3: you just set up a site, you automate it, and 601 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 3: you go live in Argentina and have a great time. 602 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 3: I'm like, like, shit, it's that easy. Let me do that, 603 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 3: you know. And so yeah, it's fine. I tried to 604 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 3: start setting up these businesses and of course, you know, 605 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 3: i'd work like you know for a month straight and 606 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 3: uh and make like twenty dollars or something, and I'm like, okay, 607 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 3: this is I'm going. 608 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 2: To make it to Argentina. Damn. 609 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 3: Yeah exactly exactly. So like this went on for like 610 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 3: a year of just me struggling, building sites, trying different 611 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 3: stuff out, trying affiliate marketing, trying like e commerce, try 612 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 3: and drop shipping, like all this different stuff. And it's 613 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 3: like I'm making you know, one hundred bucks here, twenty dollars, 614 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 3: their pennies here, rolling in it. Basically yeah right, I'm 615 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 3: just killing it dozens of dollars. And I was living 616 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 3: on a friend's couch and I had started a personal 617 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 3: blog like a year ago, and I had just been 618 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 3: writing about my personal life just like person like personal 619 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 3: blogs were super popular at that time, and you know, 620 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 3: people would just kind of journal online, and I was 621 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 3: writing about my personal life, which primarily consisted of going 622 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 3: the bars and clubs and going on dates, and it 623 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 3: just started to kind of organically attract readers. So it 624 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 3: started out was just my guy friends in Boston, and 625 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 3: then maybe three or four months later, some guys started 626 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 3: showing up on it that I had never met before, 627 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 3: and I'm like, oh, that's weird, you know. And then 628 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 3: a year goes by and now I'm getting like one 629 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 3: hundred people reading in a day, and it's starting to 630 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 3: get shared on pickup artist forums and stuff. You know, 631 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 3: it's like I had a crazy party or I hooked 632 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 3: up with this girl and had this great night, and 633 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 3: it's like suddenly it's getting shared on these forums and stuff. 634 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 3: And so I was like, you know what, like got 635 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 3: to do something, you know. So I started trying to 636 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 3: monetize it, and I never really thought of it as 637 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 3: a career. I was just like, Oh, let me do 638 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 3: this dating thing so I can make enough money so 639 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 3: I can go to Argentina's still the work, that's still 640 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 3: the goal. I don't actually want to like work on 641 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 3: this thing, like you know, and next thing I know, 642 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 3: I'm I'm getting guys at like offering the pay me 643 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 3: to like go out with them. You know, They're like, hey, 644 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 3: come out with me and talk to girls and introduce 645 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 3: them to me, and I'll like give you like five 646 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 3: hundred bucks you hit them, Yeah, exactly. And so I 647 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 3: was completely broken. I'm like that sounds awesome, Like you know, 648 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 3: a broke, single twenty four year old, that's like literally 649 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 3: the best proposition. Like here's five hundred dollars go hit 650 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 3: on girls. 651 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: I mean, like we said the dream, it evolves right 652 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: like that was the dream then that was a contextual 653 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: dream era appropriate. 654 00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely, So I'm like this, Wow, this is amazing. 655 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 3: So I start doing this thing and start learning how 656 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,239 Speaker 3: to kind of market myself or whatever. And this goes on, 657 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 3: you know, and so I'm scraping by I can finally 658 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:11,719 Speaker 3: like pay some rent. I'd say it. Like a year 659 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 3: or two later, I started I started to realize something, 660 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 3: which is, you know, guys would come to me and 661 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 3: they'd ask all these questions, you know, they'd say like 662 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 3: what do I say on a first date? Like or 663 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 3: how to like if a woman doesn't text me? Back 664 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 3: what do I do? And they're like very surface level questions, 665 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 3: And at first I would just give very surface level 666 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 3: answers like oh, say this, do that whatever. But then 667 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,479 Speaker 3: I started to realize that, like, actually, most of these 668 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 3: these men were like coming to me and like reading 669 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 3: my blog and emailing me the real issues they have, 670 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 3: emotional problems, Like it's not the big problem of your 671 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 3: dating life. Isn't that you don't know where to take 672 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 3: a girl on a first date. Like the big problem 673 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 3: is that you're like so insecure that you think this 674 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 3: is like a big deal. This is like a deal 675 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 3: breaker or something. You know, if you don't pick the 676 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 3: right ice cream. 677 00:33:54,440 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: Shop, like you're the common genoma or I'm sorry to say, yeah. 678 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like women are fine. There's like three point 679 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 3: five billion of them, so if you can't find the right. 680 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 1: One, like yeah, like it's you, it's probably you. 681 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 3: So I started getting into psychology, and this kind of 682 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 3: you know, this kind of dovetailed with a lot of 683 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 3: like the reading I had done for fun when I 684 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 3: was like, I read a lot of psychology and philosophy 685 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,839 Speaker 3: and stuff like that when I was an adolescent, and 686 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,760 Speaker 3: so I really got into it. I really got curious, 687 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 3: both for you know, my clients and readers, but also 688 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 3: for myself. Like I started discovering all sorts of crap 689 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,759 Speaker 3: about my like shit, I had mommy issues, and I 690 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 3: was objectifying women and like, and so I'm discovering all 691 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 3: this stuff and I'm like, man, I got to write 692 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,239 Speaker 3: an article about that. And so and then I would 693 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 3: write an article and it would take off and get 694 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 3: more readers and they'd ask me more questions, and then 695 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 3: I'd go research and discover more stuff and have another epiphany, 696 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:54,799 Speaker 3: and then you know, it was just kind of the 697 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,240 Speaker 3: cycle that happened. And then I guess, like the last 698 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 3: big pivot, so I kind of I ended up. I 699 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,799 Speaker 3: realized that the pickup artist thing was. I was like, man, 700 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 3: this is sinking ship. I could tell very early on, 701 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 3: I'd say, like two thousand and nine, twenty ten. I 702 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 3: realized this thing is going in two directions because there's basically, 703 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,319 Speaker 3: there are men who are into this because they recognize 704 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 3: that they're responsible, that it's them who have the problem, 705 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 3: and it's them who need to fix their behavior. And 706 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,320 Speaker 3: then there was a smaller subset of men who refuse 707 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,320 Speaker 3: to take that responsibility, and they prefer to blame women, 708 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:35,760 Speaker 3: to blame feminism, to blame politics, to blame you know, economics, whatever, 709 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 3: you know, And they started to become very political and 710 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 3: very sexist, and I could see that divergence happening of 711 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 3: like most of this is getting healthier, but there's a 712 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 3: significant minority that this is going towards a very dark place. 713 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 3: And I think that's kind of what's happened today is 714 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,720 Speaker 3: today you have there's now a lot of very healthy 715 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 3: men's dating advice out there, but then you also have 716 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,839 Speaker 3: these like in cell communities and men go their own 717 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 3: way communities and red pill communities where it's incredibly misogynistic 718 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,360 Speaker 3: and anti social and like just dark, miserable shit. So 719 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 3: I was like, I got to get out of this. 720 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 3: And originally I rebranded my site and my business to 721 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 3: a just a men's lifestyle and personal development site. It 722 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:23,439 Speaker 3: was called post Masculine, and I kind of was very open. 723 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 3: I'm like, look, it's I'm no longer just talking about 724 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 3: relationships and dating. I'm talking about career, emotional issues, family issues, 725 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,360 Speaker 3: self esteem issues, et cetera. Especially because there's not a 726 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 3: lot there was not a lot of content like that 727 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,839 Speaker 3: for men at the time, and then something completely unexpected happened, 728 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,320 Speaker 3: which was that tons of women started reading the site, 729 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 3: and by twenty twelve, I discovered that it was like 730 00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 3: the thirty percent of my readers were women. 731 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 2: Wow. 732 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 3: And they started emailing me. They're like, I love this article. 733 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 3: Can you write one for women? And I was like, well, actually, 734 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,799 Speaker 3: you know you can. Just the advice is the same, 735 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 3: just change the pronoun basically. And then I realized that 736 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 3: I said that about enough articles that I'm like, wait 737 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 3: a second, Like the hell am I doing writing a 738 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 3: men's site. I should just be writing this for everybody. 739 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 3: And so that was the kind of the final pivot 740 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 3: to my current career today, which is just personal development, blogger, author, 741 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 3: web brand, whatever you want to call it. 742 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 2: Oh my god, you are the most self deprecating person 743 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 2: in the. 744 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,359 Speaker 1: Entire world, just like, you know, like a blogger, like 745 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: not like a ten million books sold New York Times 746 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 1: bestselling author, Like no, I'm just like a little internet man. 747 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 1: Like it's fine, but isn't that Like it just blows 748 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,400 Speaker 1: up my mind. This is my favorite thing about this 749 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:45,400 Speaker 1: show is reminding everyone exactly what you just said that 750 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: at any point right up until the final pivot. You 751 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 1: had no idea what the next pivot was going to be, 752 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: which is the people we all know you for. Yeah, 753 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 1: and people would kind of encounter you at this chapter 754 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:56,759 Speaker 1: of your life and think, ah, you know, he went 755 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 1: to journalism school his whole life. He knew he was 756 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 1: going to be an author, and him moves with all 757 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 1: the right people, and he like had direction and certainty. 758 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: But like, you had no idea up until the very 759 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: blog post that you know that had the title of 760 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,880 Speaker 1: your first book. Yeah, that then made you realize this 761 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,000 Speaker 1: is a book. I'm an author. Like, I don't even 762 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,000 Speaker 1: think you would have realized you were an author until 763 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:17,360 Speaker 1: sort of after that it happened. 764 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,319 Speaker 3: Yeah. I didn't consciously decide that I wanted to be 765 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,319 Speaker 3: an author, like I wanted my career to be as 766 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,840 Speaker 3: an author. I decided that, I think when I was 767 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,799 Speaker 3: twenty seven or twenty eight. And it's funny because I mean, 768 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,280 Speaker 3: you're right, Like I get emails all the time from 769 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:36,239 Speaker 3: kids and UNI students and stuff. You know, they're like, oh, 770 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,799 Speaker 3: I'm twenty I'm only twenty years old, or I'm twenty 771 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 3: years old and I haven't taken any writing classes, but 772 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:43,600 Speaker 3: I really want to be an author, like you know, 773 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,279 Speaker 3: like I don't know what I want to do? Is 774 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,440 Speaker 3: it too late? And I'm like, are you kidding me? 775 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,439 Speaker 3: Like I was almost thirty and I'm like still like hmm, 776 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 3: is this what I want to do? Like I'm not sure, 777 00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,520 Speaker 3: you know, And it's It wasn't until I was I 778 00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 3: was twenty seven. I wrote I self published a dating 779 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:06,319 Speaker 3: advice book in twenty eleven, and the process of writing that, 780 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,759 Speaker 3: in the reception of that was so positive and enjoyable 781 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 3: for me that I was like, Wow, I can actually 782 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,200 Speaker 3: do like I could actually be a published author, Like 783 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:17,360 Speaker 3: I could actually be a best selling author. And that 784 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 3: was when I was twenty seven. 785 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 4: Oh my gosh. 786 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:24,479 Speaker 1: And then Fernanda married you, which is a miracle given 787 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: everything I've had so far. But I love that, you know, 788 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: you very much closed one chapter sort of in this 789 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: evolution and then opened this whole new chapter to becoming. 790 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,440 Speaker 1: Rather than the focus being on relation is like a 791 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:45,800 Speaker 1: relational focused, it became just a lifestyle and you found 792 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,280 Speaker 1: I kind of see a lot of these stories where 793 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,080 Speaker 1: it takes someone so many evolutions to just find their linchpin, 794 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,439 Speaker 1: like their things, Yeah, that's their signature. But then once 795 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: you find it, everything becomes about that, and in reflection, 796 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,160 Speaker 1: everything was actually about that, and I love that. Then 797 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,720 Speaker 1: sort of as you stumbled upon this theme and wrote 798 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:06,919 Speaker 1: a blog post that then became the book that sort 799 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:08,880 Speaker 1: of propelled you onto the scene from I don't know 800 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:10,359 Speaker 1: if I want to be an author to Oh my God, 801 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,360 Speaker 1: I've had like one hundred and seventy nine weeks on 802 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,520 Speaker 1: the top of the New York Times bestseller list, Like 803 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:19,920 Speaker 1: whatever it's You've become this counterpoint to bullshit, disruptor to 804 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 1: the self help industry that's completely shaken up everything, but 805 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 1: without planning it, Like I just love that things can 806 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 1: unravel in ways that you never expected in writing the 807 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: book and sort of having a bit of evidence that 808 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,160 Speaker 1: this is really where the gap was in this cut 809 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:41,520 Speaker 1: through realist really open, kind of shocking, like using swear words. 810 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,320 Speaker 1: You know, I'm sure you in all you're reading you 811 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,680 Speaker 1: saw that there's a very soft attitude generally to self help, 812 00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,560 Speaker 1: like very embracing and nurturing, and you're just like realist 813 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 1: cut through, You're not special, blah blah blah. Like it's 814 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,640 Speaker 1: obviously been received so well because people need that realist 815 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 1: approach to be able to have revelations and sort of 816 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 1: move forward, what did you think would be the best 817 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:08,319 Speaker 1: case scenario? And then when it actually ended up exploding, 818 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 1: when did you go, oh my god, I'm successful, Like 819 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:12,040 Speaker 1: when did that hit? 820 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:13,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the thing. 821 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,440 Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting because I think I would say it 822 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:20,200 Speaker 3: was around twenty thirteen or twenty fourteen that I really 823 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,759 Speaker 3: stumbled upon. I guess this kind of idea of like 824 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:24,800 Speaker 3: anti self help, or I like to think it was 825 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:26,799 Speaker 3: like negative self help, you know, so it's, you know, 826 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 3: stop trying to feel good all the time, stop thinking 827 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,560 Speaker 3: positive all the time, Like life fucking sucks. You know, 828 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,400 Speaker 3: bad things happen to good people. You're going to survive, 829 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,440 Speaker 3: you know. It's it's all about the meaning that you 830 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:43,040 Speaker 3: make from the moment. And I started kind of writing 831 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:47,800 Speaker 3: that style, that cutting style around twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, 832 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:51,239 Speaker 3: and the blog exploded. The blog was up to I 833 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 3: think to this day, the biggest blog traffic year I've 834 00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,879 Speaker 3: ever had was twenty fourteen, and it was almost two 835 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,200 Speaker 3: and a half million people a month on average. It 836 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:04,400 Speaker 3: was mighty like it was it was like a monster, 837 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,000 Speaker 3: just monster amounts of traffic. So I kind of I 838 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:09,879 Speaker 3: knew it was going to do well. Like I knew 839 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,040 Speaker 3: if I could put a book out with that message 840 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 3: and package it well and explain it well and put 841 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,760 Speaker 3: good stories into it, I knew it would do well. 842 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,640 Speaker 3: And my goal was I just I want to be 843 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:23,960 Speaker 3: a New York Times bestselling author. I'd like to do 844 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,319 Speaker 3: like a book tour, you know. I guess like a 845 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,160 Speaker 3: stretch goal was sell a million books at some point 846 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,400 Speaker 3: in my career. You know, it's like if you maybe 847 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:34,839 Speaker 3: when I'm like got six books under my belt, if 848 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:36,880 Speaker 3: you add up all those numbers, it'll total over a 849 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,560 Speaker 3: million books. Like that was kind of that was kind 850 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 3: of what I was shooting for, and in subtle art 851 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,600 Speaker 3: just smashed every single one of those dreams within like 852 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,880 Speaker 3: four months, which is crazy because it's it's on the 853 00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,439 Speaker 3: one hand, it's amazing. On the other hand, your brain 854 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:54,440 Speaker 3: is kind of like, no, it wasn't supposed to go 855 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 3: this way, like this is not we weren't ready. I'm 856 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,279 Speaker 3: not ready exactly, Like this is supposed to be like 857 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,680 Speaker 3: a long gradual trajectory. You weren't supposed to go straight 858 00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,600 Speaker 3: to the summit. And so it actually took about a 859 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,000 Speaker 3: year for me to just kind of like mentally adjust 860 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,239 Speaker 3: to what was happening. And it was very disorienting. And 861 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,880 Speaker 3: it's a weird thing to talk about, because you know, 862 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,720 Speaker 3: nobody wants to hear the guy who you know, sold 863 00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,239 Speaker 3: ten million books talk about how difficult disorienting it was. 864 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:26,719 Speaker 3: But it was a fascinating lesson for me because it 865 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,799 Speaker 3: showed me that, like, you know, we all know that 866 00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:35,040 Speaker 3: large unexpected negative events can have can cause a lot 867 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:39,440 Speaker 3: of psychological stress. We don't really realize that large unexpected 868 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:43,000 Speaker 3: positive events can have the same effect on us. We 869 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,520 Speaker 3: don't really talk about that, like you're not really supposed 870 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,879 Speaker 3: to talk about that. It's been interesting because as I've 871 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:53,720 Speaker 3: gotten to know a number of like very successful people 872 00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:57,279 Speaker 3: over the last few years, I've found that like a 873 00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,880 Speaker 3: lot of them have had a similar kind of experience 874 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,760 Speaker 3: that where they it's just completely disorienting and they actually 875 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:05,680 Speaker 3: become like a little bit lost and depressed for a 876 00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,600 Speaker 3: little while because they're like, wait, this wasn't supposed to 877 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:13,480 Speaker 3: actually happen, right, Like what am I supposed to hope 878 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 3: for dream for it? You know, Like it's like the 879 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:17,719 Speaker 3: dog you've caught the car, he just kind of sits there, 880 00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:19,640 Speaker 3: like now what right, which. 881 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:23,800 Speaker 1: Is like exactly why I think this, Like my personal 882 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:28,439 Speaker 1: chase for success as a thing really evolved towards this 883 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,840 Speaker 1: more sees the YA philosophy, like chasing the fulfillment and 884 00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,279 Speaker 1: the joy, because there is a bit of an existential 885 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:39,040 Speaker 1: crisis around success if you're too wrapped up in that 886 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:41,719 Speaker 1: being what your goal is and that being your like 887 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 1: the totality of what your identity is wrapped around in, 888 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,200 Speaker 1: because then when you get it or you far exceed it, 889 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,520 Speaker 1: it does cause this strange like I'll never be able 890 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,040 Speaker 1: to hit that again, like what is my purpose? 891 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:53,920 Speaker 2: What are my goals? 892 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:57,279 Speaker 1: And it is a really disorientating concept that leads us all, 893 00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:01,680 Speaker 1: I think, down quite a new ual and disorientating pathways 894 00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:03,520 Speaker 1: when either we get it or we don't get it, 895 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,600 Speaker 1: or we have it too much or too little, Like 896 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,200 Speaker 1: it's a very subtle balance, which is why I've really 897 00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,000 Speaker 1: tried to like obviously still have that as a marker, 898 00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:15,480 Speaker 1: but yeah, aim for different metrics, like the metrics that 899 00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:19,040 Speaker 1: are less fluctuating, because then I'm more balanced and less 900 00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:20,399 Speaker 1: like of a head fuck all. 901 00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,400 Speaker 3: The time totally well, And the irony is that like 902 00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:27,480 Speaker 3: everything you just like everything, you just said is described 903 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,440 Speaker 3: in this in Subtle Art like it's I needed my 904 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:34,480 Speaker 3: own advice. Basically, it's the solution of my problem was 905 00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:36,719 Speaker 3: my own advice. But you know, one of the things 906 00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,399 Speaker 3: I discovered during that period too is and I think 907 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,520 Speaker 3: a lot of it. I think a lot of the 908 00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,760 Speaker 3: reason it kind of messed with me was because coming 909 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,799 Speaker 3: from the like blogging and internet marketing and everything, like, 910 00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,879 Speaker 3: you get very attached to kind of this incremental growth, right, 911 00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 3: and it's probably similar with podcasting. You know, it's like 912 00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:59,400 Speaker 3: this year or twenty nineteen was x percentage better than 913 00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:01,759 Speaker 3: twenty eight and twenty eighteen was X percentage better in 914 00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:03,520 Speaker 3: twenty seventeen, and twenty twenty is going to be ex 915 00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:05,560 Speaker 3: percentage better in twenty nineteen. Like you kind of get 916 00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:09,040 Speaker 3: you get hooked on that, like you know, slow but 917 00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:12,280 Speaker 3: steady growth that happens, and it's a lot of fun 918 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,120 Speaker 3: to watch, it's a lot of fun to experience. It's 919 00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:17,200 Speaker 3: a lot of fun to challenge yourself to always like 920 00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:20,120 Speaker 3: get that next leg up, that next step on the staircase, 921 00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,279 Speaker 3: so to speak. And you know, when Subtle Art just 922 00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:27,960 Speaker 3: went vertical, basically I realized, like there's no there's no 923 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,120 Speaker 3: step above this one, Like it's only down from here. 924 00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:35,520 Speaker 2: You know, you packed way too early. You just paid. 925 00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:39,200 Speaker 3: Exactly like I was thirty two, and I was thirty two, 926 00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:41,480 Speaker 3: and I realized, I'm like, this is literally the most 927 00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:44,520 Speaker 3: successful thing I'm ever going to do, like from an 928 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:48,040 Speaker 3: external metric point of view, like this is the biggest 929 00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,839 Speaker 3: thing I'm ever going to do in my career, almost guaranteed. 930 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,719 Speaker 3: And it really messed with me. It like really really 931 00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,520 Speaker 3: mess with me because it's I think I didn't realize 932 00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:01,320 Speaker 3: how attached I was to that incremental like being better 933 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,800 Speaker 3: than I was last year, you know, and I realized, 934 00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,960 Speaker 3: I'm like, Okay, I need to find a different way 935 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,400 Speaker 3: to measure this. I need to find a different way 936 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,879 Speaker 3: to evaluate my career and evaluate like what I'm doing 937 00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,239 Speaker 3: with my career. And so yeah, it took it. That 938 00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:18,160 Speaker 3: was like a probably a six month process to kind 939 00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:20,960 Speaker 3: of work through all that mentally and emotionally. 940 00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,360 Speaker 1: And it is interesting that your book is exactly the 941 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,479 Speaker 1: book that you probably did need to go back to 942 00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,480 Speaker 1: to just remind yourself that you already knew all the 943 00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:28,879 Speaker 1: things you. 944 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:30,640 Speaker 2: Needed to know to have that shift. They just took 945 00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:31,240 Speaker 2: on a new. 946 00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,080 Speaker 1: Meaning because I mean, I don't want to reveal too 947 00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:35,920 Speaker 1: much about the book because I want people to go 948 00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,400 Speaker 1: and read it if they haven't, so I've love concentrating 949 00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,120 Speaker 1: more on the story. But just to touch briefly, it's 950 00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,399 Speaker 1: such when I first saw the title, I didn't read 951 00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,040 Speaker 1: it for a long time because I thought it was 952 00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,960 Speaker 1: anti Yay and it was anti like joy and the 953 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,480 Speaker 1: self help books that I kind of resonate with in 954 00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,440 Speaker 1: that fluffy, warm kind of way. But it's actually not 955 00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,040 Speaker 1: that at all, Like, even though they're a chapters like 956 00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:00,920 Speaker 1: You're not special, and you know self help books tell 957 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:02,480 Speaker 1: you to believe in yourself, I'm going to tell you 958 00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:06,400 Speaker 1: not to like it. Sounds counterintuitive, but it's actually what 959 00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,080 Speaker 1: I realized over the course of reading it. Because it 960 00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,839 Speaker 1: was like irrepressible, like this orange cover like in my 961 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:14,719 Speaker 1: face in every airport. I just couldn not read it. 962 00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,759 Speaker 1: It was actually not about giving no fucks. It was 963 00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,520 Speaker 1: just about choosing where you put them, which is like 964 00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:24,640 Speaker 1: the most important lesson anyone could learn is no one's 965 00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,359 Speaker 1: meant to not care. But we cared too much in 966 00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:29,880 Speaker 1: too many directions and in too many of the wrong directions. 967 00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:31,880 Speaker 1: But if you bring it all back to just simple 968 00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:36,560 Speaker 1: cut through no bullshit. That's where things start to fall 969 00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:39,759 Speaker 1: into place, and I just, yeah, I didn't expect to 970 00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:44,200 Speaker 1: love the book so much, and I understand why it 971 00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:46,160 Speaker 1: became such a big thing, and that why you have 972 00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:48,240 Speaker 1: become such a big thing, because you do you discuss 973 00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,680 Speaker 1: things like the existential crisis of success that people don't 974 00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:55,279 Speaker 1: talk about. Yeah, it's not normalizing stuff that no one 975 00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:57,760 Speaker 1: wants to say out loud because it doesn't sound positive, 976 00:48:57,800 --> 00:48:59,040 Speaker 1: but actually it really is. 977 00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,400 Speaker 3: Well it's I've kind of built my career on those conversations. 978 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,800 Speaker 3: Like one of the things I honestly asked myself anytime 979 00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:08,760 Speaker 3: I am going to do another book or a blog 980 00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:12,759 Speaker 3: post or whatever, I asked myself, I say, like, what 981 00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:16,200 Speaker 3: what needs to be said and nobody's saying it. I 982 00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:18,279 Speaker 3: want to be the one who says that. Yeah, And 983 00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:21,359 Speaker 3: that's kind of like my guiding principle and a lot 984 00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:22,719 Speaker 3: of this stuff I do. I did it with the 985 00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:24,640 Speaker 3: pickup artist stuff. You know, It's like the thing that 986 00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,720 Speaker 3: needed to be said in the pickup artist community was guys, 987 00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:31,279 Speaker 3: you're emotionally fucked up and you're denial about it. And 988 00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:33,279 Speaker 3: by the way, like we need to have a real 989 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:39,160 Speaker 3: like ethical discussion about what's going on here, you know. 990 00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:42,560 Speaker 3: And I decided in twenty ten, I'm like, all right, 991 00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,960 Speaker 3: well I'm out of I'm leaving this industry regardless. So 992 00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:48,360 Speaker 3: I wrote my dating book is kind of like this 993 00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:51,520 Speaker 3: is what needs to be said, and it became I mean, 994 00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,759 Speaker 3: it's still the best selling men's dating book, and you know, 995 00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,000 Speaker 3: and then I did that in self help as well, like, okay, 996 00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,320 Speaker 3: what needs to be said in the self help industry, 997 00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:02,800 Speaker 3: it's not being said. It was like, well, pain's fucking normal. Actually, 998 00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,239 Speaker 3: Like it's probably not because your mom didn't hug you, 999 00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,560 Speaker 3: or your dad, you know, didn't call you when you 1000 00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,879 Speaker 3: left home. It's life is just fucking hard, all right. 1001 00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:12,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1002 00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:17,920 Speaker 3: Sometimes sometimes you deciding that this pain is is a 1003 00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:22,080 Speaker 3: big deal is or deciding that the pain is a 1004 00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:23,680 Speaker 3: problem is actually the problem. 1005 00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,360 Speaker 1: It's it's And I think that's so wonderful because where 1006 00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:30,680 Speaker 1: a lot of the conventional self help theories fall down 1007 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,200 Speaker 1: is when shit hits the fan, they just don't have 1008 00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,160 Speaker 1: an answer, they just don't address it. And I think 1009 00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:39,960 Speaker 1: that realist approach is actually acknowledging the shit bits is 1010 00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,520 Speaker 1: how you get to the good bit, Like the ability 1011 00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:46,560 Speaker 1: to tie that process, tie pain into joy is what 1012 00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,279 Speaker 1: stands out so much. But I also love that your 1013 00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,560 Speaker 1: sort of you know you said before like I peaked 1014 00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:54,759 Speaker 1: with the first book blah blah blah, and nothing ever 1015 00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:59,320 Speaker 1: could after that could possibly come in another amazing development 1016 00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:01,320 Speaker 1: that you never could could have thought what was happening. 1017 00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,360 Speaker 1: You've not only written Everything is Fucked just before the 1018 00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:07,440 Speaker 1: world actually became fucked and needed every single lesson in 1019 00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:12,240 Speaker 1: that book. Your autobiography is coming out with Will Smith? 1020 00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,320 Speaker 2: What explain. 1021 00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:18,360 Speaker 3: Will contacted me? 1022 00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,600 Speaker 1: Will's wanted Wait wait wait wait, wait wait wait, I 1023 00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:25,080 Speaker 1: don't like to interrupt, but like Will contacted. 1024 00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,360 Speaker 3: You, Okay, not Will himself. 1025 00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:29,520 Speaker 1: Know, but no, no, no no, but it came from 1026 00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:32,480 Speaker 1: his side. It came from his side. 1027 00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:40,040 Speaker 3: Oh my god, I mean I wish people could see. 1028 00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,000 Speaker 3: You're like literally cheering in your bedroom. 1029 00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,040 Speaker 2: I'm so excited. 1030 00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:47,520 Speaker 1: Like it wasn't like you know, this kid from Austin 1031 00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:50,120 Speaker 1: who like you know, chased Will Smith's team for like 1032 00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:52,000 Speaker 1: five years because you wanted him to be the guard 1033 00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:52,600 Speaker 1: on the project. 1034 00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:53,560 Speaker 2: It was he came to me. 1035 00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:57,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I never I never expected to do a 1036 00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,600 Speaker 3: project like this, and uh it was funny actually because 1037 00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:03,240 Speaker 3: my agent contacted me. There were a number of different 1038 00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:05,680 Speaker 3: like a lot of different opportunities came up after subtle 1039 00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,560 Speaker 3: art became like I got offers for TV shows and 1040 00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:10,960 Speaker 3: reality shows and you know, a lot of stuff. We 1041 00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:14,680 Speaker 3: turned down a lot of stuff. And I told my agent, 1042 00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:16,759 Speaker 3: I'm like, look like I'm not. I don't need to 1043 00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,760 Speaker 3: like squeeze every dollar out of this thing, like I 1044 00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:21,560 Speaker 3: I want to, like I want to I want to 1045 00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:23,200 Speaker 3: be able to sleep at night, and I want to 1046 00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:26,439 Speaker 3: be writing and like enjoy my life, like twenty thirty 1047 00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:28,120 Speaker 3: years from the house. So like, I don't. I'm young. 1048 00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:29,760 Speaker 3: I don't need to like squeeze every penny. 1049 00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:33,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, my twelve pennies. There's more than twelve pennies. Now, 1050 00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:35,920 Speaker 1: I've built up a few mole in my collection. 1051 00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:39,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's more than a couple dozen dollars. So 1052 00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:40,920 Speaker 3: we were shooting down a lot of stuff. And then 1053 00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,400 Speaker 3: one day my agent called me and she's like, hypothetically speaking, 1054 00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:47,799 Speaker 3: which an agent talk is. This is not hypothetical at all, 1055 00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:49,400 Speaker 3: but I just want to see what your action is. 1056 00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:53,160 Speaker 3: She said, hypothetically speaking, how would you feel about working 1057 00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:57,160 Speaker 3: with a celebrity on their book? And I said, probably not, 1058 00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,160 Speaker 3: but it would really it would depend who the person is, 1059 00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,000 Speaker 3: and it would depend why they want to do the book. 1060 00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:04,360 Speaker 3: I said, it would have to be like an a lister, 1061 00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:08,960 Speaker 3: like somebody really big and no, I'm serious, like. 1062 00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:11,320 Speaker 2: No, I totally, I'm totally appreciate. 1063 00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:14,960 Speaker 3: It, you know, like no offense to like Kevin Bacon 1064 00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:22,719 Speaker 3: or whatever. But he's a great guy. He's a great guy. 1065 00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,120 Speaker 3: He's a great actor. But it's like, yeah, dude, like 1066 00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:27,520 Speaker 3: there are a million ghost writers out there you can 1067 00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:30,200 Speaker 3: hire for you know, ten K or whatever. 1068 00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:35,600 Speaker 1: So Kevin Bacon, if you're listening, I'm really sorry. I 1069 00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:37,520 Speaker 1: didn't know who was. 1070 00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:41,239 Speaker 3: Nothing personal. It's just the first kind of you. 1071 00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:44,680 Speaker 1: Know, like a minus grade, you know, b grade, semi 1072 00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:46,640 Speaker 1: kind of on the CUSP celebrity. 1073 00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,440 Speaker 3: And I came to bright like if like Gary Sinisee 1074 00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:53,200 Speaker 3: reached out, I'd be like, I'd be like, oh, you're 1075 00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:56,200 Speaker 3: the villain from that one? What was that movie? And 1076 00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:58,120 Speaker 3: then I would I'd be like, oh, I guess I 1077 00:53:58,120 --> 00:53:59,200 Speaker 3: shouldn't take the project. 1078 00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:05,200 Speaker 1: I'm just taking notes so that if Gary asks me, 1079 00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:08,520 Speaker 1: I'll say, on behalf of Mark Madson. 1080 00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:10,880 Speaker 2: Just cause you don't want to. 1081 00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:14,960 Speaker 3: This is how you respond yeah, you're that guy from 1082 00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:15,920 Speaker 3: that one flick. 1083 00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:20,520 Speaker 2: That Yeah. 1084 00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:24,799 Speaker 3: So anyway, Yeah, so I told my agent, I'm like, 1085 00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:27,680 Speaker 3: look like, it have to be somebody big. It have 1086 00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:29,880 Speaker 3: to be somebody really big, and they would have to 1087 00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:33,200 Speaker 3: want to do it for the right reasons, like I celebrity. 1088 00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:36,520 Speaker 3: In the publishing world, celebrities actually have a little bit 1089 00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:41,400 Speaker 3: of a bad reputation because they cost publishers tons and 1090 00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:44,480 Speaker 3: tons of money to do the book, and most of 1091 00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:46,879 Speaker 3: them don't actually want to work on it. They don't 1092 00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:48,800 Speaker 3: want to think about it, they don't want to share anything, 1093 00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:53,440 Speaker 3: you know, they could potentially be damaging or controversial. It's 1094 00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:55,960 Speaker 3: basically a trophy that they want, you know, Like they're like, 1095 00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:57,640 Speaker 3: give me my own book so I can put it 1096 00:54:57,680 --> 00:54:59,359 Speaker 3: on my shelf and tell people I have a book. 1097 00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:04,200 Speaker 2: You just call it how it is. 1098 00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:07,840 Speaker 3: And by the way, give me millions of dollars and 1099 00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:09,240 Speaker 3: you're never going to make a profit. 1100 00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,600 Speaker 1: So it's like it's a great proposition for you. Really, 1101 00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:15,279 Speaker 1: I mean, how can how else can I give you 1102 00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:16,320 Speaker 1: the selling points? 1103 00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:20,399 Speaker 3: Yet publishers line up by the fucking dozens does there? 1104 00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:24,120 Speaker 3: So go figure. But it's you know, ninety percent of 1105 00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:27,000 Speaker 3: celebrity books you know, it's it's their nightmare to get done, 1106 00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:29,840 Speaker 3: and the celebrities don't really cooperate anything, you know, so 1107 00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,200 Speaker 3: they have it's actually these books have kind of a 1108 00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:35,360 Speaker 3: bad reputation in the industry. So I was my agent 1109 00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,000 Speaker 3: warned me of all this stuff, and and so I 1110 00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:40,160 Speaker 3: met with a bunch of Will's people, a couple of 1111 00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:43,280 Speaker 3: people on his team, his manager, went through this whole 1112 00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,480 Speaker 3: kind of bizarre interview process where they asked me, like 1113 00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:48,840 Speaker 3: they totally asked me all the questions you're not supposed 1114 00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:52,320 Speaker 3: to ask in a job, like who did you vote 1115 00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:55,160 Speaker 3: for at the last presidential election? How do you feel 1116 00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:59,040 Speaker 3: about Muslims? Like what's your relationship, you know with black people? 1117 00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:03,000 Speaker 3: Like things like that, which I totally respect. Like it's 1118 00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:05,560 Speaker 3: it's the type of thing that would never happen in 1119 00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:08,080 Speaker 3: the corporate world because you get sued out of your mind. 1120 00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:11,879 Speaker 3: But I mean, if you're Will Smith and you're you're 1121 00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:15,000 Speaker 3: a gatekeeper for Will Smith and you're looking to hire 1122 00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,960 Speaker 3: a guy to like deal with intimate details of his 1123 00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,000 Speaker 3: personal life, like you got to make sure the values 1124 00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,799 Speaker 3: line up and that it's it's gonna be a good fit. 1125 00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:25,799 Speaker 3: So so it was super interesting going through all that, 1126 00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:28,239 Speaker 3: and then finally they're like, okay, cool. So the next 1127 00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:30,319 Speaker 3: step is for you to meet Will and they're like, well, 1128 00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:32,840 Speaker 3: we'll keep you posted. And it was so bizarre. I 1129 00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:35,040 Speaker 3: don't know if they did this on per Like I 1130 00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:37,560 Speaker 3: don't know them just kind of stringing me along, like 1131 00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:39,000 Speaker 3: testing me to see if I was gonna be a 1132 00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:41,520 Speaker 3: prima donna and like freak out and be like, I'm 1133 00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:45,000 Speaker 3: a very important author. Time is valuable, like i'd be, 1134 00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:46,919 Speaker 3: so this is what would happen. I'd be hanging out. 1135 00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:48,799 Speaker 3: So I I had a meeting with their people in 1136 00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:53,120 Speaker 3: la and like I think October of twenty seventeen, Like cool, 1137 00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:55,960 Speaker 3: So we're gonna we're gonna get you some time with Will. 1138 00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:57,600 Speaker 3: We're gonna like fly you out and you're gonna spend 1139 00:56:57,600 --> 00:56:59,239 Speaker 3: time with Will and see how you guys get along. 1140 00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:02,440 Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, cool, we'll be in touch. Like so, 1141 00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:05,200 Speaker 3: about a month later, I get an email out of 1142 00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:08,359 Speaker 3: the blue. They're like, so, Will would like to see you. 1143 00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:12,239 Speaker 3: Are you available? You know it'd be like a Thursday night. 1144 00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:14,000 Speaker 3: I get this email They're like, are you available on 1145 00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:17,960 Speaker 3: Saturday to go to London? And I'm like okay, sure, 1146 00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:20,640 Speaker 3: what is Yeah? Fuck it, Like, I'll just I'll clear 1147 00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:23,840 Speaker 3: my weekend, I'll cancel everything. I'm going to London. I'm 1148 00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:26,240 Speaker 3: gonna hang out with Will Smith. Sweet, you know. And 1149 00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:28,360 Speaker 3: then twenty four hours later, I get an email, Like 1150 00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:31,240 Speaker 3: Friday night, I get an email and they're like, sorry, 1151 00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:33,600 Speaker 3: it's off. We'll keep you posted. 1152 00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:36,960 Speaker 2: So this is they read the game. 1153 00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:44,600 Speaker 3: Yeah right, they're totally getting me hooked. Yeah, you're totally right. 1154 00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:45,480 Speaker 3: You're right. 1155 00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:49,120 Speaker 2: You should have seen this coming, aiming me. 1156 00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:51,720 Speaker 3: Every step of the way. So this happens, you know, 1157 00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:54,080 Speaker 3: and then like another month goes by, and then I 1158 00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:55,640 Speaker 3: get this email and they're like, you know, it's a 1159 00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:58,200 Speaker 3: Tuesday night and they're like, Will's gonna be in Miami. 1160 00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:00,440 Speaker 3: Can you leave tomorrow? And I'm like I look at 1161 00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:02,720 Speaker 3: my calendar. I'm like no, I have like three important 1162 00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:04,400 Speaker 3: things to do this later this week. I have like 1163 00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:07,200 Speaker 3: meetings and friends in town and staying with me and 1164 00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:08,800 Speaker 3: like all this stuff. I'm like, no, I can't, Like, 1165 00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:12,200 Speaker 3: can't you guys give me like a week notice or something. 1166 00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:15,800 Speaker 3: I didn't say any of that. I'm like, you know, sorry, 1167 00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:18,040 Speaker 3: not available. So anyway, this goes on. This happens like 1168 00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:20,640 Speaker 3: three or four times. And then finally and I actually 1169 00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:22,040 Speaker 3: got to the point where I'm like, you know what, 1170 00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:24,480 Speaker 3: this is probably never going to happen, but whatever, it's 1171 00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:25,280 Speaker 3: fun to think about. 1172 00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:26,640 Speaker 2: That's fun. 1173 00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:32,640 Speaker 1: Ma, You're not special. I mean, just rad your own book, please. 1174 00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:36,880 Speaker 3: And so February of the next year, get the same 1175 00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:39,680 Speaker 3: kind of email. It's like a Monday morning, you know, 1176 00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:42,360 Speaker 3: They're like, are you available to go to Georgia tomorrow? 1177 00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:44,720 Speaker 3: And I'm like, yeah, I actually don't have a whole 1178 00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:46,480 Speaker 3: lot going on this week. I can move, I can 1179 00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:49,440 Speaker 3: move stuff whatever. Sure enough, ticket comes through, end up 1180 00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:52,520 Speaker 3: on a plane land. Next thing I know, I'm like 1181 00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:56,000 Speaker 3: on set on an Angle film, like hanging out watching 1182 00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:59,680 Speaker 3: them shoot action scenes like Will Smith's like ten feet 1183 00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:02,280 Speaker 3: away from I'm like, what the fuck is going on here? 1184 00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:07,400 Speaker 3: Like this is insane? What wait, hold on a second, 1185 00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:08,920 Speaker 3: this is actually fucking happening. 1186 00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:11,480 Speaker 2: Worth the wait, yeah, oh yeah. 1187 00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:13,840 Speaker 3: And then and then once we actually got in a 1188 00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:16,360 Speaker 3: room together. I mean, what I've since discovered is that 1189 00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:19,640 Speaker 3: Will is just like literally the busiest human on the planeff. 1190 00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:24,880 Speaker 3: His schedule is absurd, Like he does more in a 1191 00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,520 Speaker 3: day than like most people do in a week. And 1192 00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:30,120 Speaker 3: but yeah. Once we finally got in a room together 1193 00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:32,720 Speaker 3: for a couple of hours, It's yeah, we hit it off. 1194 00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:35,000 Speaker 3: He told me flat out, you know. I told him, 1195 00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:38,000 Speaker 3: I said, look, the only way it really works for 1196 00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:39,600 Speaker 3: me to do this book, like, the only way I 1197 00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:41,720 Speaker 3: can be excited, you know, I shouldn't do this book 1198 00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:44,840 Speaker 3: and it's your life. Whoever writes it should be excited, right, 1199 00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:46,320 Speaker 3: And I told him, I said, the only way I'm 1200 00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:49,120 Speaker 3: going to be excited to do this is this needs 1201 00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:50,880 Speaker 3: to be like there needs to be some sort of 1202 00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:54,520 Speaker 3: cause or motivation beyond I'm Will Smith, and I want 1203 00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:57,080 Speaker 3: to have an autobiography, you know, if you just want 1204 00:59:57,080 --> 00:59:58,960 Speaker 3: somebody to document your life, Like there are a lot 1205 00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:01,240 Speaker 3: of really good writers who can do that. And he said, 1206 01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:03,440 Speaker 3: He's like, no, Actually, I went through a lot of 1207 01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:07,120 Speaker 3: trouble in my marriage. My father just passed away. He 1208 01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:09,440 Speaker 3: had a little bit of a midlife crisis. He's like, 1209 01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:12,200 Speaker 3: I've I've had like a very big transformation over the 1210 01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:15,439 Speaker 3: last five years. Like my worldview is completely changed, and 1211 01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:17,920 Speaker 3: I screwed a lot of things up in my life. 1212 01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:20,920 Speaker 3: And people don't know that about me. People don't know 1213 01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:24,440 Speaker 3: who I really am. Like I've had to keep my 1214 01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:27,280 Speaker 3: image so perfect for so many years because I was 1215 01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:30,080 Speaker 3: in the spotlight that I people don't actually know what 1216 01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:33,280 Speaker 3: I've gone through, what I've been through, and so I 1217 01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:35,160 Speaker 3: want this book to be able to share that with 1218 01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:37,880 Speaker 3: people for the first time. And so I was like, fuck, dude, 1219 01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:41,800 Speaker 3: I'm in if that's why you want this, Like I'm in, 1220 01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:46,360 Speaker 3: and he's I mean, Will's great, Like I'm nothing but 1221 01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:49,720 Speaker 3: amazing things to say about him, and he is. I 1222 01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,680 Speaker 3: just finished the draft last week. We actually postponed this 1223 01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:55,080 Speaker 3: interview because I was thank you because I was. 1224 01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:58,040 Speaker 2: Like, oh my god, I think may. 1225 01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:02,280 Speaker 3: Freaking out, like try to finish this draft. But yeah, 1226 01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:05,680 Speaker 3: it's it's uh. I think people are going to be 1227 01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:09,320 Speaker 3: blown away by how candid the book is and how 1228 01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:12,000 Speaker 3: how many life lessons there are from it. You know. 1229 01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:14,480 Speaker 3: One of the first things he told me when we 1230 01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:17,840 Speaker 3: sat down is he said, when I was nine years old, 1231 01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:20,240 Speaker 3: I watched my father beat my mother so hard that 1232 01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:24,800 Speaker 3: she vomited blood. And I decided that night that I 1233 01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:26,560 Speaker 3: needed to be in charge of the family so that 1234 01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:28,960 Speaker 3: this never happened again. He was nine years old, and 1235 01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:31,920 Speaker 3: then he like went and fucking did it. And I'm like, Okay, 1236 01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:36,560 Speaker 3: I'm in, I'm in, I'm in. I will write that story. 1237 01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:38,280 Speaker 2: Oh my god. 1238 01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:40,880 Speaker 1: Though, but seriously, Mark, like to like, who would have 1239 01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:44,320 Speaker 1: thought this pooch from Texas, who didn't even know that 1240 01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,040 Speaker 1: he wanted to be a writer, would be trusted with 1241 01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:53,320 Speaker 1: the first ever account of Will Smith's most intimate revelations 1242 01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:57,920 Speaker 1: about his life, Like I cannot actually process it's and 1243 01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:01,400 Speaker 1: I'm not even intimately involved, like the the jump is just. 1244 01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:05,280 Speaker 3: It took me like a year process, Like, I dude, 1245 01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:09,920 Speaker 3: I lost my virginity watching No, this is true story. 1246 01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:13,480 Speaker 3: I lost my virginity watching Men in Black. True story. 1247 01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:17,600 Speaker 3: I invited my girlfriend over to watch Men in Black 1248 01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:20,560 Speaker 3: and then we like totally lost my virginity. I told 1249 01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:22,360 Speaker 3: Will that he thought it was hilarious, but. 1250 01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:24,200 Speaker 1: I love that you were, Like, here's Will Smith as 1251 01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:25,640 Speaker 1: a taster, Like, get excited. 1252 01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:28,440 Speaker 2: This is the Warmer Upper. 1253 01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:34,960 Speaker 1: It's Will Smith being like a bowler, and I can't 1254 01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:36,480 Speaker 1: believe as well, even. 1255 01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:38,520 Speaker 2: More amazing to me full circle. 1256 01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:44,760 Speaker 1: That he's actually Hitch. You are writing the book of Hitch. 1257 01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:49,280 Speaker 3: What is this? Like, No, it's it's it's just a 1258 01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:53,360 Speaker 3: mind fuck in like eight different ways. And it's it's 1259 01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:56,480 Speaker 3: weird because you know, I mean we everybody in our generation. 1260 01:02:56,560 --> 01:03:00,240 Speaker 3: We grew up watching him, Like everybody watched Will's Smith, 1261 01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:03,040 Speaker 3: Like watch Will Smith movies, watch Fresh Prince of bel Air. 1262 01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:07,000 Speaker 2: Did you fan girl, please tell me you fangirled? 1263 01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:13,520 Speaker 3: I did? I mean I was they like him, and 1264 01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:15,520 Speaker 3: his people told me later that I was pretty good, 1265 01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:18,640 Speaker 3: like I can be pretty stoic, like they said, I 1266 01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:22,040 Speaker 3: didn't really show it. I was like the whole first day, 1267 01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:23,560 Speaker 3: I was like freaking out. 1268 01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:26,400 Speaker 1: I mean, if anyone's going to make your feet sweat, 1269 01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:28,400 Speaker 1: it would be Will Smith. 1270 01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:34,520 Speaker 3: Like a rather full circle, well done. 1271 01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:41,320 Speaker 1: Oh well, oh my gosh, I've like literally talked to 1272 01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:44,040 Speaker 1: your ear off and like skipped two whole sections because 1273 01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:46,120 Speaker 1: that was the best tangent ever. 1274 01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:50,000 Speaker 2: But I should let you go. It's late at night 1275 01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:50,360 Speaker 2: for you. 1276 01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:53,560 Speaker 1: But I would like to wrap up with just a 1277 01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:57,080 Speaker 1: couple of last questions that kind of bookend, along with 1278 01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:59,560 Speaker 1: the sweaty fat thing bookend. 1279 01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:00,960 Speaker 2: The. 1280 01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:04,000 Speaker 3: You're not going to beat the sweaty feet book. 1281 01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:06,440 Speaker 2: No, you're right, I mean, but the Gassi. 1282 01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:09,520 Speaker 1: I mean, we should have separated those two facts to bookend, 1283 01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:12,760 Speaker 1: because that would have been great if anyone was banging 1284 01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:14,760 Speaker 1: over you. Now they'll now they'll know you're. 1285 01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:15,160 Speaker 2: Down to earth. 1286 01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:18,520 Speaker 3: They'll think twice they think, And. 1287 01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:21,440 Speaker 2: I admire Fernande even more now, I mean, wow, the 1288 01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:25,280 Speaker 2: ship that she deals with yea literally. 1289 01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:33,280 Speaker 1: Well, so the last section would have been playta, which 1290 01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:37,120 Speaker 1: is I think just the area where I'm reminded so 1291 01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:39,840 Speaker 1: much about in the redefinition of my metrics for measuring 1292 01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:42,720 Speaker 1: success in life, I've realized, or just for measuring life 1293 01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:45,840 Speaker 1: and its value and quality, is that no matter even 1294 01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:48,320 Speaker 1: if you love your job, especially if you don't, all 1295 01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:50,840 Speaker 1: of us need to unwrap our identity from productivity and 1296 01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:55,000 Speaker 1: achievement and goals and objectives and self development. I think 1297 01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:58,480 Speaker 1: it's especially when you're someone like us who loves to 1298 01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:00,840 Speaker 1: work on ourselves and have big revelations. 1299 01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:02,240 Speaker 2: It's hard to switch that off. 1300 01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:06,320 Speaker 1: But all of us, especially creative people, need something that 1301 01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:07,800 Speaker 1: just makes you forget what time it is. 1302 01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:09,080 Speaker 2: It's just for joy. 1303 01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:11,160 Speaker 1: That's not like I used to walk my dog and 1304 01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:13,080 Speaker 1: think I was resting, but I listened to a finance 1305 01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:15,560 Speaker 1: podcast and be like ticking over and being like, oh, 1306 01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:19,160 Speaker 1: I rested today. So what do you do for play 1307 01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:23,400 Speaker 1: to bring like your childlike sense of wonder and pass 1308 01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:27,320 Speaker 1: the time when you're not being sort of author, Mark Speaker, 1309 01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:31,120 Speaker 1: Mark blogger, Mark, you know, famous person Mark Gassie Mark, Like, 1310 01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:32,040 Speaker 1: what are you doing. 1311 01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:32,480 Speaker 4: When you're. 1312 01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:37,320 Speaker 1: Just like date night or just just underlinding? Can you 1313 01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:39,480 Speaker 1: read other people's books or does that make you like. 1314 01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:44,360 Speaker 3: Oh, no, I read tons, tons and it's yeah, it's 1315 01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:45,919 Speaker 3: I read tons And I've got a bunch of friends 1316 01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:48,760 Speaker 3: who are authors and I read their manuscripts and they 1317 01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:52,760 Speaker 3: read mind and stuff like that. Yeah, I've actually I 1318 01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:59,000 Speaker 3: rediscovered my my inner gamer years ago back. He's back. 1319 01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:02,080 Speaker 3: And you know, I kind of gave up gaming when 1320 01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:05,400 Speaker 3: I started my business because you just working sixteen hour days, 1321 01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:08,320 Speaker 3: you don't have time. And then I was traveling around 1322 01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:11,400 Speaker 3: the world a lot. And so when that was actually 1323 01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:13,400 Speaker 3: one of the things with Subtle Art that I was like, 1324 01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:14,800 Speaker 3: you know what, I'm going to go out and like 1325 01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:17,480 Speaker 3: buy a Nintendo in a PlayStation and just play a 1326 01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:19,200 Speaker 3: bunch of these games that I haven't had time to 1327 01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:22,720 Speaker 3: play in years. And so yeah, it's like I love 1328 01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:24,800 Speaker 3: it still. I still game like every day. 1329 01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:25,800 Speaker 2: That's amazing. 1330 01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:28,160 Speaker 1: Actually, last time we spoke with the business Ticks thing, 1331 01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:29,840 Speaker 1: you were like, it's like, how's I say been? 1332 01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:32,680 Speaker 2: You have just been like playing a lot of games. 1333 01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:37,720 Speaker 1: Yeap, like got rs I in my thumbs because I've 1334 01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:38,720 Speaker 1: been playing too much games. 1335 01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:42,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was pretty bad. With the funny like, video 1336 01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:44,960 Speaker 3: games have kind of become like the same way I 1337 01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:48,440 Speaker 3: used to party compulsively. I think I now like if 1338 01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:52,960 Speaker 3: I'm like stressed or having emotional problems or whatever, the 1339 01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:55,600 Speaker 3: first signal to me is that I'm playing way too 1340 01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:59,480 Speaker 3: many video games. That that's like, that's like my my, 1341 01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:02,920 Speaker 3: my life, the universe saying hey, Mark, there's shit. You're 1342 01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:06,160 Speaker 3: not paying attention to put the controller away. 1343 01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:11,000 Speaker 1: That's like the internet blogger metaphorical version of like punching 1344 01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:11,720 Speaker 1: a punching bag. 1345 01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:13,040 Speaker 2: But you're like, I'm going to game. 1346 01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:16,040 Speaker 3: The shit out of this game. I do man all 1347 01:07:16,040 --> 01:07:16,760 Speaker 3: the levels. 1348 01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:19,880 Speaker 1: Oh man, that's amazing. I mean, well done, well done. 1349 01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:20,760 Speaker 1: Sixteen hours a day. 1350 01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:22,640 Speaker 2: I would hope that you would be beating all the levels. 1351 01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:25,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, my wife's not very impressed. 1352 01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:32,160 Speaker 1: She hasn't seen you in like three weeks. So the 1353 01:07:32,200 --> 01:07:35,080 Speaker 1: second last question, even though you've already dished up a 1354 01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:36,880 Speaker 1: lot of these and now you'll wish you'd save them 1355 01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:39,360 Speaker 1: for last, what are three interesting things about you that 1356 01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:40,840 Speaker 1: don't normally come up in conversation. 1357 01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:43,960 Speaker 3: Fo, I speak three languages. 1358 01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:45,240 Speaker 2: I wrote that down. 1359 01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:47,040 Speaker 1: I was like, if he needs help, give him a 1360 01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:51,440 Speaker 1: little push. Yeah, explain how and why, because they're very 1361 01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:52,240 Speaker 1: different to each other. 1362 01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:55,280 Speaker 3: Actually, no, they're not Russian. Really. Oh no, I don't 1363 01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:57,720 Speaker 3: speak I don't speak Russian. Well, I speak a little 1364 01:07:57,720 --> 01:07:58,280 Speaker 3: bit of Russian. 1365 01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:01,320 Speaker 2: Okay, well, need to take that off your LinkedIn then? 1366 01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:08,240 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well I probably do. I'm it is kind 1367 01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:12,080 Speaker 3: of a lie like I I guess that's another interesting 1368 01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:14,400 Speaker 3: thing about me, because I lie on my LinkedIn profile. 1369 01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:17,720 Speaker 2: You're not above a resume pad. I love it. 1370 01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:21,639 Speaker 3: No, so I speak, I should say I speak three languages. Well, 1371 01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:26,400 Speaker 3: like I speak Spanish and Portuguese to like a high 1372 01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:30,240 Speaker 3: conversational low fluency Russian. I speak a little bit. Like 1373 01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:32,360 Speaker 3: I can go to Russia, I can order food, I 1374 01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:35,040 Speaker 3: can read signs, I can kind. 1375 01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:36,280 Speaker 2: Of like, oh that's pretty good. 1376 01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:39,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, but like I can't like have a conversation in Russian. 1377 01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:42,000 Speaker 1: Oh, I mean, well, then definitely take it off. I'm 1378 01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:44,960 Speaker 1: just gonna report that afterwards. 1379 01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:45,360 Speaker 3: Report. 1380 01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:50,280 Speaker 2: Oh they're great, they're good ones. 1381 01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:55,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's two. Yeah, I don't know video games 1382 01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:57,559 Speaker 3: kind I'm trying to think of another one. 1383 01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:00,639 Speaker 2: Do you have pet paves or like weird sleepy habits 1384 01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:02,120 Speaker 2: or like a. 1385 01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:05,000 Speaker 3: Huge pet peeve of mine is people who eat noisily, 1386 01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:09,479 Speaker 3: like are you oh no? And apparently apparently there's actually 1387 01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:11,559 Speaker 3: a word for it, like there's uh, there's like some 1388 01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:14,599 Speaker 3: Greek word for it, like there's something like ten percent 1389 01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:16,920 Speaker 3: of the population. It's almost it's like a phobia. It's 1390 01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:20,120 Speaker 3: like people who smack or eat loudly, like it just 1391 01:09:20,760 --> 01:09:22,439 Speaker 3: it's like nails on a chalkboard. For me. 1392 01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:26,599 Speaker 1: It's okay, Well, I'll keep that in mind. So next 1393 01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:28,800 Speaker 1: time we catch up in like, you know, obviously next 1394 01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:31,080 Speaker 1: week when I'm in New York just hanging out at 1395 01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:32,960 Speaker 1: your place, I just I'll just make sure I don't 1396 01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:34,920 Speaker 1: eat because I'm one of them. Like I'll eat an 1397 01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:38,639 Speaker 1: apple and it like reverberates around nation. 1398 01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:40,320 Speaker 3: Live with this. 1399 01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:42,880 Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, though, Well, I feel 1400 01:09:42,880 --> 01:09:46,240 Speaker 1: like it's loud for you anyway, Yeah, so I don't actually, 1401 01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:48,080 Speaker 1: you know, like I'm enjoying the apple. 1402 01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:50,200 Speaker 3: So some people like I a good friend of mine, 1403 01:09:50,280 --> 01:09:53,800 Speaker 3: he like smacks really loud when he choose and he's like, 1404 01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:57,520 Speaker 3: I enjoy it. He's like it's satisfying, like I like 1405 01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:02,040 Speaker 3: like smacking when I like chewing stuffing, and I'm like, dude. 1406 01:10:02,080 --> 01:10:03,280 Speaker 2: That's a full sychopath. 1407 01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:07,559 Speaker 3: Interesting exactly, Like how do you how do you sleep 1408 01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:08,000 Speaker 3: at night? 1409 01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:10,479 Speaker 1: Seriously, how do you live with yourself? I mean you 1410 01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:12,240 Speaker 1: said you need to be out of sleep at night. 1411 01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:14,280 Speaker 1: You need to be out of Yeah, like be okay 1412 01:10:14,280 --> 01:10:16,799 Speaker 1: with yourself. So I'm glad you keep your chewing volume 1413 01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:17,400 Speaker 1: to a minimum. 1414 01:10:17,479 --> 01:10:20,479 Speaker 2: That's great. At least Bananda's got that as a chick. 1415 01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:22,560 Speaker 3: In the box exactly. 1416 01:10:23,439 --> 01:10:25,920 Speaker 1: And the last question seems I love quotes so much. 1417 01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:27,200 Speaker 1: What's your favorite quote? 1418 01:10:27,479 --> 01:10:30,920 Speaker 3: My favorite quote? Well, it changes quite a bit. Oh man, 1419 01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:34,160 Speaker 3: I got to pick one, so I'll give you two. 1420 01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:36,760 Speaker 3: One is comes from David Foster Wallace, and he said 1421 01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:39,200 Speaker 3: that you will stop worrying so much what people think 1422 01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:41,479 Speaker 3: about you when you realize how seldom they do. 1423 01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:42,640 Speaker 2: That's such a. 1424 01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:47,200 Speaker 3: It's it's so I love it because it's it sounds 1425 01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:49,519 Speaker 3: a little bit depressing on the surface, like, oh, people 1426 01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:51,360 Speaker 3: don't think about me, but then you just realize how 1427 01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:54,320 Speaker 3: you realize how liberating that is, you know, and and 1428 01:10:54,479 --> 01:10:57,520 Speaker 3: you also it also implies that like like an obsessive 1429 01:10:57,640 --> 01:11:00,040 Speaker 3: concern of what other people think about you is a 1430 01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:03,559 Speaker 3: very subtle form of narcissism, Like it's it's you're making 1431 01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:07,240 Speaker 3: everything about you, and it's like people don't care, Like honestly, 1432 01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:11,080 Speaker 3: people just really don't care. So we've got much better 1433 01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:15,599 Speaker 3: things to do than to worry about whether your presentation sucked, 1434 01:11:15,680 --> 01:11:18,080 Speaker 3: Like we don't care, So life goes on. 1435 01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:19,040 Speaker 2: That's on brand. 1436 01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:23,120 Speaker 3: I love it. And then the other one is it 1437 01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:26,320 Speaker 3: comes from Freud and he says that in hindsight, the 1438 01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:28,559 Speaker 3: years of struggle will strike you as the most beautiful. 1439 01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:31,880 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, what a beautiful way to end. They 1440 01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:35,160 Speaker 1: are two incredibly valuable quotes. Along with everything else that 1441 01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:38,120 Speaker 1: you've shared and everything in your book and every article 1442 01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:41,240 Speaker 1: that you've published. You've done some really wonderful topical ones 1443 01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:44,760 Speaker 1: as well lately on uncertainty and what's going on in 1444 01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:47,760 Speaker 1: the world. I'm so so grateful for your time. I'm 1445 01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:48,960 Speaker 1: so sorry everyone us overtime. 1446 01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:51,320 Speaker 2: That was just like as far as conversations I've ever had. 1447 01:11:52,280 --> 01:11:55,960 Speaker 1: It was so much fun. Thank you so much. And 1448 01:11:56,960 --> 01:11:58,840 Speaker 1: I can't wait to read the next book. 1449 01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:01,719 Speaker 3: It's gonna be good. And I usually hate my own stuff, 1450 01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:06,240 Speaker 3: like like no, it's like usually at this point in 1451 01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:08,720 Speaker 3: the process where I just finished a draft, like I'm 1452 01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:12,280 Speaker 3: like curled up in a corner crying, being like I'm 1453 01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:14,759 Speaker 3: a fraud. Nobody's ever going to read me ever again, 1454 01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:17,000 Speaker 3: you know, And it's like with Will's book, I finished 1455 01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:20,080 Speaker 3: it and I'm like, this is awesome. This I nailed it. Yeah, No, 1456 01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:23,240 Speaker 3: I did so well. 1457 01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:26,960 Speaker 1: I cannot wait. You've come so far from self deprecating 1458 01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:29,360 Speaker 1: Texan pooch. Thank you so much for joining. 1459 01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:31,200 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. 1460 01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:34,519 Speaker 1: I mean, sometimes someone says yes and you know there's 1461 01:12:34,560 --> 01:12:37,080 Speaker 1: no way you'll ever be able to express how grateful 1462 01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:39,880 Speaker 1: you are. If you enjoyed this too, It would be 1463 01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:43,040 Speaker 1: amazing if you'd share your thoughts and tag at Mark 1464 01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:45,519 Speaker 1: Manson and myself so we can share in some of 1465 01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:48,759 Speaker 1: your takeaways. This was one of those chats that literally 1466 01:12:48,960 --> 01:12:51,920 Speaker 1: changed the way I think, as all Marx books have done. 1467 01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:54,000 Speaker 1: I hope you took some nuggets or even just a 1468 01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:57,120 Speaker 1: chuckle out of it too. Plus, oh my gosh, what 1469 01:12:57,400 --> 01:12:59,760 Speaker 1: a scoop on Will Smith. I can't wait to read 1470 01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:01,559 Speaker 1: the boo when it comes out. I'll keep you all 1471 01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:05,240 Speaker 1: posted in the meantime. Have an amazing week, and I 1472 01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:12,400 Speaker 1: hope you're seizing your yay