1 00:00:11,064 --> 00:00:15,024 Speaker 1: So much. You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma 2 00:00:15,104 --> 00:00:18,784 Speaker 1: Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders that 3 00:00:18,864 --> 00:00:26,784 Speaker 1: this podcast is recorded on From Mamma Mia. Welcome to 4 00:00:26,824 --> 00:00:30,104 Speaker 1: the Spill your daily pop culture Fixed. I'm Laura Britney 5 00:00:30,184 --> 00:00:33,064 Speaker 1: and I'm m Burnham. Should we acknowledge what's happening right now? 6 00:00:36,264 --> 00:00:38,664 Speaker 2: So when I'm filming this, we are not in our 7 00:00:38,784 --> 00:00:41,024 Speaker 2: usual studio. We are in a meeting room. 8 00:00:41,144 --> 00:00:44,304 Speaker 1: We're in Mia Freeman's office with hand held my Well, 9 00:00:44,344 --> 00:00:46,504 Speaker 1: it's just weird that we're sitting on a couch together. 10 00:00:46,584 --> 00:00:49,304 Speaker 1: We usually sit across a table looking at each other, 11 00:00:49,344 --> 00:00:51,064 Speaker 1: and now we're sitting on a couch together. I don't know, I. 12 00:00:51,024 --> 00:00:53,024 Speaker 2: Feel weird sitting side by side. I feel waiting for 13 00:00:53,104 --> 00:00:53,584 Speaker 2: a bus. 14 00:00:53,704 --> 00:00:54,944 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say, I feel like we're on 15 00:00:54,984 --> 00:00:57,784 Speaker 1: a weird first dage? Are you going a first dage? 16 00:00:57,784 --> 00:01:00,384 Speaker 1: Your friends fell? Oh god, it's ruined right from the start. 17 00:01:00,384 --> 00:01:01,984 Speaker 1: We'll wait for Emily to put her headphones back on. 18 00:01:02,424 --> 00:01:04,344 Speaker 2: Back right, friend, I'm back. Can you guys hear me? 19 00:01:04,464 --> 00:01:05,944 Speaker 1: I was gonna say, it's like when you're on an 20 00:01:05,944 --> 00:01:07,864 Speaker 1: awkward first date and you accidentally go to one of 21 00:01:07,864 --> 00:01:10,664 Speaker 1: those restaurants where you're sitting on the same side of 22 00:01:10,704 --> 00:01:12,544 Speaker 1: the table that have like the banquet seating. 23 00:01:12,704 --> 00:01:14,824 Speaker 2: I like that. I like sitting next to my date. 24 00:01:14,944 --> 00:01:16,944 Speaker 1: Oh no, I don't like that at all. Really, we're 25 00:01:16,944 --> 00:01:19,944 Speaker 1: having very different experiences right eye contact anyway, if they 26 00:01:19,944 --> 00:01:21,944 Speaker 1: can get weird between Emily Knights because we're closer than 27 00:01:21,944 --> 00:01:24,984 Speaker 1: we normally are on the show today. So Apple Cider 28 00:01:25,064 --> 00:01:28,824 Speaker 1: Vinegar on Netflix has become a worldwide sensation. It was 29 00:01:28,864 --> 00:01:31,464 Speaker 1: obviously number one Australia when it launched, it was number 30 00:01:31,464 --> 00:01:34,984 Speaker 1: five worldwide. It's been climbing since then, which is interesting 31 00:01:35,024 --> 00:01:37,504 Speaker 1: to see a lot of international people hear the story 32 00:01:37,504 --> 00:01:40,664 Speaker 1: of Bell gibbson for the first time. So since the 33 00:01:40,904 --> 00:01:44,384 Speaker 1: series has come out, which is obviously a fictionalized version 34 00:01:44,584 --> 00:01:47,104 Speaker 1: of the Bell Gibson story but has a lot of 35 00:01:47,224 --> 00:01:51,344 Speaker 1: very true elements in there, and since those true elements 36 00:01:51,344 --> 00:01:53,304 Speaker 1: have come out and people have delved into the story, 37 00:01:53,504 --> 00:01:55,904 Speaker 1: there has been a lot of real life fallout from 38 00:01:55,944 --> 00:01:58,824 Speaker 1: the series. A lot of people involved have come out 39 00:01:58,984 --> 00:02:01,024 Speaker 1: and a lot of them are very angry. So we're 40 00:02:01,024 --> 00:02:03,144 Speaker 1: going to get into all that because there's so much 41 00:02:03,144 --> 00:02:05,864 Speaker 1: to unpack. But first you have something you want to share. 42 00:02:06,904 --> 00:02:10,664 Speaker 2: Something a bit different. Selena Gomez and her fear Beyonce 43 00:02:11,064 --> 00:02:14,504 Speaker 2: Benny Blanco, who's also a very rich producer, have just 44 00:02:14,624 --> 00:02:18,984 Speaker 2: dropped a few big revelations about their careers and relationships 45 00:02:19,024 --> 00:02:23,984 Speaker 2: in a combined interview for Interview magazine. Right off the bat, 46 00:02:24,224 --> 00:02:26,864 Speaker 2: the interview was accompanied by a photo shoot, which is 47 00:02:26,864 --> 00:02:28,104 Speaker 2: how I found the interview. 48 00:02:28,224 --> 00:02:30,264 Speaker 1: They're going to be mean to me, and. 49 00:02:30,544 --> 00:02:34,624 Speaker 2: No, I won't be mean. I'll be quite honest. Okay, 50 00:02:35,144 --> 00:02:37,104 Speaker 2: the photos are subper, They're not great. 51 00:02:37,144 --> 00:02:38,704 Speaker 1: Oh god, they look good together. 52 00:02:39,344 --> 00:02:42,344 Speaker 2: I think the person who was in charge of the 53 00:02:42,344 --> 00:02:44,104 Speaker 2: wardrobe hate Selena Gomez. 54 00:02:44,224 --> 00:02:46,424 Speaker 1: Can I just say you didn't like their engagement photo 55 00:02:46,464 --> 00:02:48,304 Speaker 1: shoot either? And they had the taco bell and the 56 00:02:48,344 --> 00:02:50,744 Speaker 1: fake picnic set and the fake trees behind them. You 57 00:02:50,784 --> 00:02:52,544 Speaker 1: just don't like this couple. You don't like love is 58 00:02:52,544 --> 00:02:53,544 Speaker 1: what I'm thinking about you. 59 00:02:54,944 --> 00:02:57,144 Speaker 2: I want them to succeed, and I don't think anyone 60 00:02:57,144 --> 00:02:57,624 Speaker 2: else does. 61 00:02:57,944 --> 00:03:00,144 Speaker 1: Yeah, look a few people are rooting against them. It's 62 00:03:00,184 --> 00:03:01,824 Speaker 1: sure to say. Now you're one of them and leading 63 00:03:01,864 --> 00:03:05,264 Speaker 1: the charge. I think this interview because it's so centien 64 00:03:05,344 --> 00:03:07,464 Speaker 1: on their relationship. It's almost like they're trying to win 65 00:03:07,544 --> 00:03:08,544 Speaker 1: the public overright. 66 00:03:08,864 --> 00:03:12,344 Speaker 2: I don't know. I think they're trying trying to find 67 00:03:12,464 --> 00:03:15,224 Speaker 2: their couple shtick because I think they want a very 68 00:03:15,304 --> 00:03:18,584 Speaker 2: public stick as them two together, and I don't think 69 00:03:18,624 --> 00:03:20,944 Speaker 2: they nailed it. One of the photos in the photo 70 00:03:20,944 --> 00:03:23,344 Speaker 2: shoot is just a photo of him with Selena Gomez, 71 00:03:23,864 --> 00:03:25,224 Speaker 2: his feet on his face. 72 00:03:25,944 --> 00:03:28,144 Speaker 1: I mean they might be into that. Most men are 73 00:03:28,184 --> 00:03:28,824 Speaker 1: very into feats. 74 00:03:28,824 --> 00:03:30,704 Speaker 2: I don't think when we do these photo shoots, not 75 00:03:30,744 --> 00:03:32,744 Speaker 2: about what you're into. It's about what we're into. And 76 00:03:32,784 --> 00:03:34,384 Speaker 2: a lot of people went into that. I can tell 77 00:03:34,384 --> 00:03:36,624 Speaker 2: you they right out. Anyway, back to the interview, back 78 00:03:36,624 --> 00:03:39,424 Speaker 2: what we're here for. So one of the big revelations 79 00:03:39,544 --> 00:03:42,304 Speaker 2: was that they've actually known each other for years. They 80 00:03:42,424 --> 00:03:46,024 Speaker 2: met when she was on Disney in twenty thirteen, when 81 00:03:46,064 --> 00:03:49,504 Speaker 2: she was around sixteen years old. And it was really 82 00:03:49,544 --> 00:03:52,304 Speaker 2: interesting that part because the way he talks about her, 83 00:03:52,384 --> 00:03:55,224 Speaker 2: which shows that I do love love, is like the 84 00:03:55,224 --> 00:03:59,904 Speaker 2: most admirable, respectful way I've ever heard a celebrity man 85 00:04:00,104 --> 00:04:01,384 Speaker 2: talk about his partner. 86 00:04:01,504 --> 00:04:04,384 Speaker 1: Oh that's nice, he's so well. There was this one 87 00:04:04,424 --> 00:04:05,744 Speaker 1: part anyway, Okay, I'm. 88 00:04:05,544 --> 00:04:07,584 Speaker 2: Not sorry to backtrack there this one part where he 89 00:04:07,664 --> 00:04:14,264 Speaker 2: described her as his as his heroine and Xanax combined. 90 00:04:14,504 --> 00:04:18,264 Speaker 1: Oh that's I guess, cute and troubling in some situations. 91 00:04:18,304 --> 00:04:20,704 Speaker 2: But then he admitted that he was terrified she'll wake 92 00:04:20,784 --> 00:04:22,664 Speaker 2: up one day and change her mind about him. 93 00:04:23,304 --> 00:04:25,984 Speaker 1: Well, I understand why he thinks that, because when they're 94 00:04:26,464 --> 00:04:29,464 Speaker 1: everyone's tay. Yeah, exactly. When they're together, they seem very 95 00:04:29,464 --> 00:04:32,264 Speaker 1: in love. But then you know, at award shows there've 96 00:04:32,264 --> 00:04:35,064 Speaker 1: been jokes about him that he asked a genie for 97 00:04:35,104 --> 00:04:37,784 Speaker 1: a wish and it was Selena Gomez. So many people 98 00:04:37,784 --> 00:04:41,424 Speaker 1: are like, funny, he was funny. All the comments and 99 00:04:41,504 --> 00:04:43,544 Speaker 1: their pictures are like, what does she see in him? 100 00:04:43,584 --> 00:04:46,104 Speaker 1: He's so ugly. He's not ugly at all. Also, as 101 00:04:46,104 --> 00:04:47,744 Speaker 1: we know, men can get away with anything. He's got 102 00:04:47,784 --> 00:04:50,384 Speaker 1: a good personality. He treats her like a human being. 103 00:04:50,424 --> 00:04:53,664 Speaker 1: The bar is so low. And also he's rich, and 104 00:04:53,704 --> 00:04:57,744 Speaker 1: he's rich and he's like quite powerful. But in the industry, yeah, exactly. 105 00:04:57,904 --> 00:04:59,744 Speaker 1: If you look at all the comments under the photos 106 00:04:59,744 --> 00:05:02,024 Speaker 1: and videos that they post, so many people are saying 107 00:05:02,104 --> 00:05:05,424 Speaker 1: things like he proposed to her so quickly because he 108 00:05:05,504 --> 00:05:07,224 Speaker 1: wants to lock it down and like not give her 109 00:05:07,264 --> 00:05:09,744 Speaker 1: a chance to escape. People are saying he should be 110 00:05:09,744 --> 00:05:11,424 Speaker 1: so happy to she even looked at him in the 111 00:05:11,424 --> 00:05:13,784 Speaker 1: first place, And that's why I think they're doing and 112 00:05:13,864 --> 00:05:16,744 Speaker 1: like people like other celebrities and comedians make jokes about them, 113 00:05:16,824 --> 00:05:19,784 Speaker 1: I think that's why they're doing this, almost like damage control, 114 00:05:20,144 --> 00:05:23,064 Speaker 1: and it's literally they have done nothing except that people 115 00:05:23,064 --> 00:05:24,824 Speaker 1: think that physically they look mismatched. 116 00:05:25,064 --> 00:05:27,224 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think they kind of alluded to those 117 00:05:27,344 --> 00:05:29,864 Speaker 2: rumors in the actual interview, because there's a lot of 118 00:05:29,904 --> 00:05:32,944 Speaker 2: her saying how much she liked him first, Like, there 119 00:05:32,984 --> 00:05:34,824 Speaker 2: was a part where he like said that he had 120 00:05:34,864 --> 00:05:37,904 Speaker 2: no idea that he was even introducing her to his 121 00:05:38,024 --> 00:05:41,104 Speaker 2: friends today, and he was like, oh, I had no idea. 122 00:05:41,544 --> 00:05:44,264 Speaker 2: And a big thing they revealed in this interview was 123 00:05:44,304 --> 00:05:47,384 Speaker 2: that they're working on an album together that comes out 124 00:05:47,504 --> 00:05:52,144 Speaker 2: next month. It's titled I said. It's titled I said 125 00:05:52,184 --> 00:05:54,744 Speaker 2: I Love you first, which is she was one who 126 00:05:54,744 --> 00:05:57,864 Speaker 2: said she loved him. Oh that's cute, great, nice, and 127 00:05:57,944 --> 00:06:00,704 Speaker 2: great news for people who like Selena Gomez's music. But 128 00:06:00,784 --> 00:06:03,104 Speaker 2: he's obsessed with her. He said that he loved her 129 00:06:03,144 --> 00:06:07,144 Speaker 2: voice and that she had quote top three tones, which 130 00:06:07,184 --> 00:06:09,984 Speaker 2: makes her easily recognizable. I don't know what top three. 131 00:06:10,064 --> 00:06:13,224 Speaker 1: Tone means to do with like the tone of her 132 00:06:13,304 --> 00:06:15,104 Speaker 1: voice and the control that she has over. 133 00:06:15,104 --> 00:06:17,144 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it's about how if you hear 134 00:06:17,184 --> 00:06:20,264 Speaker 2: a Selena Gomez song, you instantly know it's her. You 135 00:06:20,344 --> 00:06:23,144 Speaker 2: don't ask is that a Selena Gomes song? Which is 136 00:06:23,144 --> 00:06:25,464 Speaker 2: surprising because it's been a few times where I've gone, 137 00:06:25,544 --> 00:06:27,184 Speaker 2: is that a Selena Gomez song? 138 00:06:27,584 --> 00:06:31,184 Speaker 1: Fun fact, can you name a Selena Gomez song? Come 139 00:06:31,184 --> 00:06:33,784 Speaker 1: on your her target demo? Your her target demo? Wait, 140 00:06:34,264 --> 00:06:36,784 Speaker 1: you're the right age for her? Can keep my hands 141 00:06:36,824 --> 00:06:38,704 Speaker 1: to myself? That's what's it called? 142 00:06:38,784 --> 00:06:39,944 Speaker 2: Can't keep my hands myself? 143 00:06:39,984 --> 00:06:42,504 Speaker 1: Okay, I don't know the I'm just saying. I know 144 00:06:42,544 --> 00:06:46,064 Speaker 1: she's a very successful musician, but I don't think her 145 00:06:46,224 --> 00:06:48,824 Speaker 1: music has really translated to being like I. 146 00:06:48,744 --> 00:06:50,944 Speaker 2: Don't think her music has contributed as much to a 147 00:06:50,984 --> 00:06:52,384 Speaker 2: success as her acting has. 148 00:06:52,664 --> 00:06:54,144 Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't mean this to be mean, but we 149 00:06:54,184 --> 00:06:56,584 Speaker 1: did an episode many years go on The Spill talking 150 00:06:56,584 --> 00:06:58,824 Speaker 1: about her career and we were talking about how she's 151 00:06:58,864 --> 00:07:02,224 Speaker 1: a star without a brand because prior to only meners 152 00:07:02,224 --> 00:07:04,304 Speaker 1: in the building, it wasn't like any of her acting 153 00:07:04,384 --> 00:07:07,344 Speaker 1: roles were like that is Selena Gomez's thing like that 154 00:07:07,464 --> 00:07:09,584 Speaker 1: is her character, that is her role, and same with 155 00:07:09,624 --> 00:07:12,144 Speaker 1: her music. It was successful and people liked her, but 156 00:07:12,264 --> 00:07:15,424 Speaker 1: like her music hasn't had the longevity and hasn't changed 157 00:07:15,464 --> 00:07:18,144 Speaker 1: pop culture and hasn't been critically acclaimed. It just is 158 00:07:18,184 --> 00:07:20,784 Speaker 1: an extension of her that her fans like. So people 159 00:07:20,864 --> 00:07:23,744 Speaker 1: just like the existence of her and not her work, 160 00:07:23,784 --> 00:07:25,744 Speaker 1: which is also like a credit to her. Like people 161 00:07:25,784 --> 00:07:27,344 Speaker 1: love her that much and she's one of the most 162 00:07:27,344 --> 00:07:28,624 Speaker 1: followed people on Instagram. 163 00:07:28,824 --> 00:07:33,344 Speaker 2: Yes, Christianna Ronaldo for yees, people love her. But the 164 00:07:33,384 --> 00:07:36,384 Speaker 2: whole interview was like just very interesting. At the first 165 00:07:36,384 --> 00:07:40,424 Speaker 2: public I think they've done together after announcing their engagement, 166 00:07:40,704 --> 00:07:43,944 Speaker 2: you don't get any news about how the engagement took 167 00:07:43,984 --> 00:07:45,944 Speaker 2: place or like the background of that. They said they 168 00:07:45,944 --> 00:07:47,704 Speaker 2: wanted to leave that story for when they have kids 169 00:07:47,744 --> 00:07:49,784 Speaker 2: to tell them, which is kind of boring. 170 00:07:50,064 --> 00:07:51,664 Speaker 1: Like I was like, come on, well, it's because they 171 00:07:51,704 --> 00:07:53,544 Speaker 1: got called out for doing it on a film set, 172 00:07:53,624 --> 00:07:55,744 Speaker 1: which is kind of also romantic. 173 00:07:55,424 --> 00:07:57,144 Speaker 2: But I want to know more about the film set. 174 00:07:57,504 --> 00:07:59,424 Speaker 2: I would love to be engaged on the film set 175 00:07:59,464 --> 00:08:00,704 Speaker 2: and even though I have nothing to do with it. 176 00:08:00,904 --> 00:08:02,664 Speaker 2: But the whole interview is out, we'll link it in 177 00:08:02,704 --> 00:08:04,784 Speaker 2: our show notes. It's quite good. There's also a part 178 00:08:04,824 --> 00:08:08,144 Speaker 2: where they made the made the interview listen to a 179 00:08:08,184 --> 00:08:11,344 Speaker 2: whole song from Relia. I just want to be a 180 00:08:11,384 --> 00:08:13,624 Speaker 2: fly on up ball of him just having to look 181 00:08:13,664 --> 00:08:15,944 Speaker 2: engaged while listening to a song for the first time 182 00:08:15,944 --> 00:08:16,904 Speaker 2: that's played on it and then. 183 00:08:16,824 --> 00:08:18,784 Speaker 1: He's scrambling to think of something to say it. Afterwards, 184 00:08:18,824 --> 00:08:21,864 Speaker 1: he goes, I can tell that is Selena Gomez. You're right. 185 00:08:21,944 --> 00:08:24,144 Speaker 2: He was like, that was good. I was fully invested 186 00:08:24,144 --> 00:08:27,784 Speaker 2: in that. I'm like, I freaking hope. So anyway, great interview. 187 00:08:27,824 --> 00:08:29,344 Speaker 2: I'm being really mean. Let's move on. 188 00:08:31,824 --> 00:08:34,744 Speaker 1: So Apple Side of Vininger premiered a few weeks ago 189 00:08:34,824 --> 00:08:37,344 Speaker 1: on Netflix. It's safe to say, judging by the bit 190 00:08:37,344 --> 00:08:39,984 Speaker 1: of data that Netflix has released, that most people who 191 00:08:40,024 --> 00:08:44,024 Speaker 1: subscribe to that service have already binged those episodes and 192 00:08:44,064 --> 00:08:46,864 Speaker 1: binged them the whole six episodes in the first week, 193 00:08:47,224 --> 00:08:49,664 Speaker 1: and it's led a lot of people to deep dive 194 00:08:49,784 --> 00:08:52,584 Speaker 1: into the history of Belle Gibson a bit more, but 195 00:08:52,704 --> 00:08:56,904 Speaker 1: also the supporting characters in the story, so Clive, her partner, 196 00:08:56,944 --> 00:08:59,544 Speaker 1: who's also her partner in real life. Well, actually, last 197 00:08:59,624 --> 00:09:01,744 Speaker 1: year was reported they had broken up so, but then 198 00:09:02,024 --> 00:09:04,184 Speaker 1: friends have said that they're still together. So again with 199 00:09:04,224 --> 00:09:07,384 Speaker 1: Bell Gibson, we'll never know, and diving into the supporting 200 00:09:07,464 --> 00:09:10,864 Speaker 1: characters there and one character who has had the most 201 00:09:10,904 --> 00:09:14,904 Speaker 1: conversation around her after Bell Gibson is the character of 202 00:09:15,024 --> 00:09:19,184 Speaker 1: Miller Blake, who is inspired by an Australian woman by 203 00:09:19,264 --> 00:09:22,384 Speaker 1: the name of Jessica ames Co who was known as 204 00:09:22,464 --> 00:09:23,704 Speaker 1: the Wellness Warrior. 205 00:09:24,144 --> 00:09:28,304 Speaker 2: Yeah, the story is so sad because even though miller 206 00:09:28,384 --> 00:09:30,504 Speaker 2: Blake's character is meant to be a depiction for a 207 00:09:30,544 --> 00:09:34,064 Speaker 2: lot of those I guess alternate medicine seeking people, that 208 00:09:34,184 --> 00:09:38,224 Speaker 2: whole influencer generation that started just after Instagram was made. 209 00:09:38,304 --> 00:09:40,664 Speaker 2: They said that her character was made up of a 210 00:09:40,664 --> 00:09:43,224 Speaker 2: lot of them, but it's pretty obvious it was just 211 00:09:43,464 --> 00:09:44,144 Speaker 2: jess Aimes Go. 212 00:09:44,504 --> 00:09:46,824 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such an interesting choice. And I guess it's 213 00:09:46,824 --> 00:09:49,984 Speaker 1: so different with Belle Gibson because this series is very 214 00:09:50,064 --> 00:09:52,944 Speaker 1: much based on The Woman who Fooled the World, which 215 00:09:52,984 --> 00:09:55,624 Speaker 1: was the book that the two journalists who originally broke 216 00:09:55,664 --> 00:09:58,984 Speaker 1: the story of her not donating the money and then 217 00:09:59,024 --> 00:10:03,984 Speaker 1: her wellness lies wrote after their investigation. And also they 218 00:10:04,024 --> 00:10:07,264 Speaker 1: have factual things like the sixty minutes Interview that they 219 00:10:07,304 --> 00:10:10,224 Speaker 1: can use, and it's so well documented about the li 220 00:10:10,744 --> 00:10:13,784 Speaker 1: Belle Gibson told and the appearances that she did, and 221 00:10:13,824 --> 00:10:16,344 Speaker 1: the people have spoken out, so that's why they could 222 00:10:16,344 --> 00:10:18,944 Speaker 1: call her Bell in the series and use those moments 223 00:10:19,504 --> 00:10:22,104 Speaker 1: with jess Ain's co that's obviously a little bit different 224 00:10:22,144 --> 00:10:25,584 Speaker 1: because she spoke about having cancer, and she did have cancer, 225 00:10:25,944 --> 00:10:28,624 Speaker 1: and she was very beloved by the people that followed her, 226 00:10:28,664 --> 00:10:31,184 Speaker 1: and obviously there's been a lot of backlash after her 227 00:10:31,224 --> 00:10:34,344 Speaker 1: death of people saying that she was promoting an unhealthy 228 00:10:34,384 --> 00:10:36,784 Speaker 1: way to treat an illness. But it is a different 229 00:10:36,824 --> 00:10:39,464 Speaker 1: situation of using her likeness. So that's why she's one 230 00:10:39,504 --> 00:10:41,184 Speaker 1: of the few people on the show who has her 231 00:10:41,264 --> 00:10:44,864 Speaker 1: name change from Jessica Ain's code Tamilla Blake. And it's 232 00:10:44,864 --> 00:10:48,184 Speaker 1: interesting because the creative team behind Apple Side of Vinegar 233 00:10:48,584 --> 00:10:51,184 Speaker 1: have said over and over again that they just used 234 00:10:51,184 --> 00:10:53,864 Speaker 1: HER's inspiration, but once they got into the writing room, 235 00:10:53,904 --> 00:10:57,224 Speaker 1: they're like, we created a fictional character. We created her 236 00:10:57,264 --> 00:11:00,464 Speaker 1: from our own imaginations and from other stories, and she's 237 00:11:00,504 --> 00:11:02,384 Speaker 1: just an amalgamation of so many people. 238 00:11:02,664 --> 00:11:04,784 Speaker 2: But just like that slogan, it's a lie. It's not 239 00:11:04,824 --> 00:11:05,624 Speaker 2: a true story. 240 00:11:05,704 --> 00:11:07,584 Speaker 1: But then the thing is it's all well and good 241 00:11:07,584 --> 00:11:10,104 Speaker 1: to say that, but when you watch the series, it's 242 00:11:10,384 --> 00:11:13,224 Speaker 1: beat for beat. Like they even show the same magazine 243 00:11:13,304 --> 00:11:15,344 Speaker 1: she worked at in real life. She had the exact 244 00:11:15,344 --> 00:11:18,104 Speaker 1: same cancer exactly, the exact same name of her blog, 245 00:11:18,464 --> 00:11:21,384 Speaker 1: like it's her. Yeah, they have reimagined like different photo 246 00:11:21,424 --> 00:11:24,544 Speaker 1: shoots that she did and put those on Timilla's. 247 00:11:24,104 --> 00:11:26,384 Speaker 2: Character, the same family dynamic exactly. 248 00:11:26,464 --> 00:11:28,584 Speaker 1: Well, the story of her family is the biggest giveaway 249 00:11:28,584 --> 00:11:32,424 Speaker 1: because they chose to have her mother as Jessica Ainscow's 250 00:11:32,464 --> 00:11:35,344 Speaker 1: mother was diagnosed with They changed it from breast cancer 251 00:11:35,384 --> 00:11:37,704 Speaker 1: to bow cancer in the show, but her mother was 252 00:11:37,824 --> 00:11:41,144 Speaker 1: diagnosus never know. Yeah, like they make one little change, 253 00:11:41,184 --> 00:11:44,104 Speaker 1: but they've used her same family dynamic of a similar 254 00:11:44,104 --> 00:11:46,784 Speaker 1: amount of time that she survived after diagnosis, how she 255 00:11:46,944 --> 00:11:49,584 Speaker 1: talked about her illness, the books she wrote in the 256 00:11:49,624 --> 00:11:53,144 Speaker 1: Speaker funeral. Yeah, like that is like almost a beat 257 00:11:53,184 --> 00:11:55,904 Speaker 1: for beat of what really happened. And so they've taken 258 00:11:55,904 --> 00:11:58,384 Speaker 1: this woman's story and put it into the show and 259 00:11:58,464 --> 00:12:00,704 Speaker 1: are now saying it's not completely based on her when 260 00:12:00,744 --> 00:12:01,824 Speaker 1: it very obviously is. 261 00:12:02,184 --> 00:12:05,024 Speaker 2: Yeah, And her dad Cole has actually come out to 262 00:12:05,064 --> 00:12:07,864 Speaker 2: speak against her portrayal. In the show, saying it was 263 00:12:07,904 --> 00:12:12,504 Speaker 2: extremely inaccurate. He said, continue linking Jess's name to Belle 264 00:12:12,544 --> 00:12:15,944 Speaker 2: is appalling. Jess doesn't deserve her legacy to be tarnished 265 00:12:15,984 --> 00:12:20,384 Speaker 2: by this. He was particularly upset about how the show 266 00:12:20,424 --> 00:12:24,624 Speaker 2: alluded that Jess and Belle were quite close and in 267 00:12:24,824 --> 00:12:28,024 Speaker 2: constant contact, to the point where they could have been friends. 268 00:12:28,384 --> 00:12:30,864 Speaker 2: He said that they didn't know each other, that Jess 269 00:12:30,984 --> 00:12:33,944 Speaker 2: wasn't friends with her, and that Belle just showed up 270 00:12:34,144 --> 00:12:37,104 Speaker 2: to her funeral just to promote her own profile, not 271 00:12:37,184 --> 00:12:40,584 Speaker 2: for any other reason. He also says that it was 272 00:12:40,624 --> 00:12:43,904 Speaker 2: inaccurately depicted how Jess was died. So Jess actually passed 273 00:12:43,904 --> 00:12:46,944 Speaker 2: away ten years ago. This month it marks her death. 274 00:12:47,344 --> 00:12:50,184 Speaker 2: It's so so sad. And he said that she had 275 00:12:50,184 --> 00:12:54,264 Speaker 2: actually passed away to complications from radiation therapy, not from 276 00:12:54,304 --> 00:12:55,304 Speaker 2: her actual cancer. 277 00:12:56,024 --> 00:12:58,624 Speaker 1: Yeah, which is a very interesting statement to make. 278 00:12:58,824 --> 00:13:01,544 Speaker 2: It also said she was so intelligent and that he 279 00:13:01,784 --> 00:13:04,504 Speaker 2: was completely on board for her journey, whereas like the 280 00:13:04,584 --> 00:13:07,464 Speaker 2: dad in the show is completely against it from the 281 00:13:07,504 --> 00:13:10,064 Speaker 2: get go, and it's quite upset, and he said that 282 00:13:10,424 --> 00:13:13,304 Speaker 2: it feels like that they just made her someone who 283 00:13:13,824 --> 00:13:17,824 Speaker 2: didn't go through conventional medicine because she just didn't want to, 284 00:13:17,864 --> 00:13:19,904 Speaker 2: whereas that wasn't the case at all. It was actually 285 00:13:19,984 --> 00:13:23,144 Speaker 2: quite a grim diagnosis she was received and after all 286 00:13:23,184 --> 00:13:25,744 Speaker 2: her research and stuff, that's the roots she went through 287 00:13:25,744 --> 00:13:27,424 Speaker 2: and that's the route that he supported her with. 288 00:13:27,864 --> 00:13:30,944 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. I mean in such a complicated situation, and 289 00:13:31,104 --> 00:13:34,824 Speaker 1: the fallout from Apple Cided Vinegar. For the people who 290 00:13:34,904 --> 00:13:37,904 Speaker 1: were involved, whether it's the people who donated money to 291 00:13:37,904 --> 00:13:39,984 Speaker 1: Bell Gibson, all the people that she promised money to 292 00:13:40,224 --> 00:13:42,784 Speaker 1: and now the family of Jesse ains Co, the fallout 293 00:13:42,784 --> 00:13:44,984 Speaker 1: I think has been quite horrific for a lot of people. 294 00:13:45,264 --> 00:13:47,224 Speaker 1: It's interesting too, though, because I don't want to get 295 00:13:47,264 --> 00:13:50,664 Speaker 1: too much into the semantics of her diagnosis because we 296 00:13:50,704 --> 00:13:53,624 Speaker 1: basically don't have that information available and it is private. 297 00:13:53,904 --> 00:13:56,384 Speaker 1: But at the same time, when you look back at 298 00:13:56,384 --> 00:13:59,864 Speaker 1: a lot of the speaking engagements she did, the interviews 299 00:13:59,904 --> 00:14:02,064 Speaker 1: she did, whether she was talking about her own health 300 00:14:02,184 --> 00:14:05,864 Speaker 1: or not, she was pushing a form of treating cancer 301 00:14:05,984 --> 00:14:08,144 Speaker 1: that is proven not to work and that could have 302 00:14:08,184 --> 00:14:10,304 Speaker 1: been dangerous for any time, harmful. 303 00:14:10,504 --> 00:14:13,264 Speaker 2: She was drinking juice in just every hour and like 304 00:14:13,344 --> 00:14:14,264 Speaker 2: multiple coffee and. 305 00:14:14,264 --> 00:14:16,984 Speaker 1: Exact day exactly, and not that I think now she 306 00:14:17,064 --> 00:14:19,704 Speaker 1: deserves to be called out or like villainized in a 307 00:14:19,784 --> 00:14:21,704 Speaker 1: Netflix show or anything like that. But I just think 308 00:14:21,704 --> 00:14:24,384 Speaker 1: it's important to separate the two things of like, yes, 309 00:14:24,424 --> 00:14:26,064 Speaker 1: we might not have the full story about her from 310 00:14:26,064 --> 00:14:29,064 Speaker 1: a Netflix show, which is fair enough, but also a 311 00:14:29,104 --> 00:14:31,824 Speaker 1: lot of the media that she did is very harmful. 312 00:14:31,864 --> 00:14:33,904 Speaker 2: It is it's hard to talk about, but it's so 313 00:14:34,064 --> 00:14:37,224 Speaker 2: true because, as you said, we don't know the complications 314 00:14:37,264 --> 00:14:40,344 Speaker 2: of like her medical history, Like she probably genuinely thought 315 00:14:40,424 --> 00:14:43,464 Speaker 2: that this was the only route that was available to 316 00:14:43,504 --> 00:14:46,224 Speaker 2: her that she went through, and she believed that that 317 00:14:46,424 --> 00:14:49,024 Speaker 2: had cured her for two years before the cancer came back. 318 00:14:49,504 --> 00:14:51,664 Speaker 2: But it's one thing doing that and going down this 319 00:14:51,784 --> 00:14:54,664 Speaker 2: route versus promoting this as a way to cure cancer. 320 00:14:54,744 --> 00:14:58,184 Speaker 2: Well exactly Belle did even though she didn't have cancer. 321 00:14:58,264 --> 00:15:01,064 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, So that they are two very different stories 322 00:15:01,104 --> 00:15:03,624 Speaker 1: and at the same time, like just did monetize it 323 00:15:03,664 --> 00:15:05,304 Speaker 1: to an extent or at least kind of built a 324 00:15:05,344 --> 00:15:08,264 Speaker 1: platform off it. At the same time, I really understand 325 00:15:08,264 --> 00:15:10,624 Speaker 1: why her family is this upset, especially because it's been 326 00:15:10,664 --> 00:15:13,424 Speaker 1: ten years since her death and there would be a 327 00:15:13,464 --> 00:15:16,344 Speaker 1: lot of feelings and emotions with that anniversary coming up, 328 00:15:16,424 --> 00:15:18,064 Speaker 1: and they've been living with that loss for the last 329 00:15:18,144 --> 00:15:21,264 Speaker 1: ten years. And now to have people googling her names 330 00:15:21,264 --> 00:15:24,504 Speaker 1: and her photo, her real life photo of like Jess, 331 00:15:24,544 --> 00:15:27,344 Speaker 1: not just the actress Alicia Deennon Caerry who played her, 332 00:15:27,904 --> 00:15:30,304 Speaker 1: is across so many websites. It's up there next to 333 00:15:30,344 --> 00:15:31,064 Speaker 1: Bell Gibson, and. 334 00:15:31,104 --> 00:15:35,104 Speaker 2: It shows how influential media can be. Like even I 335 00:15:35,184 --> 00:15:37,184 Speaker 2: said that when we did our brutally honest review of 336 00:15:37,224 --> 00:15:40,224 Speaker 2: Apple Cider Vinegar, Miller Blake was not a likable character. 337 00:15:40,584 --> 00:15:42,304 Speaker 1: Well, I didn't think she was likable, but I very 338 00:15:42,384 --> 00:15:44,144 Speaker 1: much felt for her, Like I don't think they were 339 00:15:44,184 --> 00:15:46,224 Speaker 1: trying to put her out there as a villain or 340 00:15:46,264 --> 00:15:48,264 Speaker 1: anything like that in the show. If anything, they were 341 00:15:48,304 --> 00:15:51,464 Speaker 1: trying to show that Belle was doing it for not 342 00:15:51,544 --> 00:15:53,464 Speaker 1: just the money and the lives, but to feel loved 343 00:15:53,504 --> 00:15:56,584 Speaker 1: and accepted. And you see Miller like she one hundred 344 00:15:56,584 --> 00:15:59,544 Speaker 1: percent believes what she's doing is the correct thing, that 345 00:15:59,664 --> 00:16:02,424 Speaker 1: she wants those juices out there, even though everyone tells 346 00:16:02,464 --> 00:16:03,864 Speaker 1: her this is not the best, it's not going to 347 00:16:03,904 --> 00:16:06,304 Speaker 1: make you money, but she doesn't care because she actually 348 00:16:06,344 --> 00:16:09,144 Speaker 1: thinks those juices are going to kill people, which is 349 00:16:09,264 --> 00:16:11,224 Speaker 1: very in line with the Jeff Ain's Co's way of 350 00:16:11,264 --> 00:16:12,984 Speaker 1: thinking of Like I want to tell people this because 351 00:16:12,984 --> 00:16:15,744 Speaker 1: I believe it's true to the point in this series 352 00:16:15,744 --> 00:16:18,624 Speaker 1: where you see Miller even sacrifice her own mother's health, 353 00:16:18,904 --> 00:16:20,144 Speaker 1: like she's so sure that. 354 00:16:20,064 --> 00:16:24,504 Speaker 2: I was so unlikable, which jess Ainsko's dad Cole, was like, 355 00:16:24,584 --> 00:16:27,384 Speaker 2: that's inaccurate, Like she didn't do that, like her mom 356 00:16:27,784 --> 00:16:29,144 Speaker 2: chose that route herself. 357 00:16:29,624 --> 00:16:31,824 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so hard because the thing is Netflix and 358 00:16:31,864 --> 00:16:35,064 Speaker 1: the creators behind this series. You really can't just say, 359 00:16:35,304 --> 00:16:37,184 Speaker 1: oh no, no, it's not based on her when you 360 00:16:37,704 --> 00:16:41,184 Speaker 1: used her entire life as plot points for the show, 361 00:16:41,704 --> 00:16:43,824 Speaker 1: and then to come out and say that, and also 362 00:16:43,944 --> 00:16:46,064 Speaker 1: with her husband at the time, because I think he's 363 00:16:46,064 --> 00:16:47,224 Speaker 1: spoken out about it as well. 364 00:16:47,304 --> 00:16:50,224 Speaker 2: Yeah, he and her best friend have also spoken out 365 00:16:50,544 --> 00:16:53,704 Speaker 2: against Netflix, saying how inaccurate so many of the things, 366 00:16:53,904 --> 00:16:56,304 Speaker 2: but the main one that they keep talking about was 367 00:16:56,904 --> 00:16:59,224 Speaker 2: that she wasn't that close with Belle Gibson. 368 00:16:59,544 --> 00:17:01,304 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't think the show betrayed them as 369 00:17:01,304 --> 00:17:03,584 Speaker 1: being overly close. If anything, they just think they. 370 00:17:03,464 --> 00:17:06,304 Speaker 2: Did in a way where they made Miller look like 371 00:17:06,344 --> 00:17:08,784 Speaker 2: she was obsessed with Belle, like that was very much 372 00:17:08,784 --> 00:17:09,984 Speaker 2: evident in the show. 373 00:17:10,544 --> 00:17:12,544 Speaker 1: A little bit the other ways that you saw that 374 00:17:12,784 --> 00:17:14,784 Speaker 1: Belle thought she was friends with Miller and she had 375 00:17:14,824 --> 00:17:19,224 Speaker 1: this very intense parasocial relationship with her and because they 376 00:17:19,224 --> 00:17:21,944 Speaker 1: were trading messages. But then when she meets Miller for 377 00:17:21,984 --> 00:17:23,984 Speaker 1: the first time at that event and Miller can't place 378 00:17:24,024 --> 00:17:26,424 Speaker 1: her and she's talking to everyone, that's when she has 379 00:17:26,424 --> 00:17:29,264 Speaker 1: the realization that I don't know, I'm just another commented 380 00:17:29,344 --> 00:17:31,784 Speaker 1: to her, like she actually doesn't care about me, and 381 00:17:31,824 --> 00:17:35,304 Speaker 1: that kind of spirals Belle, and then Miller really comes 382 00:17:35,384 --> 00:17:38,224 Speaker 1: out against her as like very you know, angry and vindictive, 383 00:17:38,264 --> 00:17:40,784 Speaker 1: and so much of that is about Chanelle because she 384 00:17:40,944 --> 00:17:43,904 Speaker 1: was Milla's childhood friend and it starts working for Belle. 385 00:17:44,224 --> 00:17:46,864 Speaker 1: But you don't really see Belle and Miller interact that 386 00:17:46,944 --> 00:17:49,864 Speaker 1: much in the show in terms of like being friends, 387 00:17:49,944 --> 00:17:51,664 Speaker 1: apart from when they're at the awards and they have 388 00:17:51,784 --> 00:17:55,264 Speaker 1: that quick interaction. You more see them being like parasocial, 389 00:17:55,384 --> 00:17:57,504 Speaker 1: and then you see them have these interactions and then 390 00:17:57,504 --> 00:17:59,544 Speaker 1: they go to kind of almost being enemies. 391 00:17:59,584 --> 00:18:02,584 Speaker 2: Yeah, which which again didn't happen. No no, no, Well, 392 00:18:02,744 --> 00:18:06,104 Speaker 2: if anything, Belle was probably thought that Miller was an 393 00:18:06,144 --> 00:18:07,744 Speaker 2: enemy and Miller was like, I don't even know who 394 00:18:07,744 --> 00:18:09,744 Speaker 2: you are. That would have been the most accurate thing. 395 00:18:10,504 --> 00:18:13,944 Speaker 1: What we know from jess Ainscoe's manager who gave interviews 396 00:18:13,984 --> 00:18:16,504 Speaker 1: after her death, and she was saying that Jessica only 397 00:18:16,544 --> 00:18:19,584 Speaker 1: met Bell Gibson once at a conference and Belle came 398 00:18:19,664 --> 00:18:21,384 Speaker 1: up to her, and apart from that, they followed each 399 00:18:21,384 --> 00:18:23,624 Speaker 1: other on Instagram. You know, you just have Instagram. You 400 00:18:23,784 --> 00:18:26,224 Speaker 1: like each other's stuff, but you don't like talk offline. 401 00:18:26,624 --> 00:18:29,184 Speaker 1: They had that relationship. But then Belle really did come 402 00:18:29,224 --> 00:18:31,944 Speaker 1: to her funeral and cause a huge scene which is 403 00:18:31,984 --> 00:18:37,584 Speaker 1: depict cra So one of the other people that is 404 00:18:37,704 --> 00:18:41,184 Speaker 1: really having to come back into the Belle Gibson fray 405 00:18:41,224 --> 00:18:43,624 Speaker 1: in a very intense way at the moment is journalist 406 00:18:43,664 --> 00:18:47,224 Speaker 1: Tara Brown, because she is the one who conducted that 407 00:18:47,424 --> 00:18:52,544 Speaker 1: very infamous twenty fifteen sixty minutes interview with Belle Gibson, 408 00:18:53,024 --> 00:18:56,064 Speaker 1: which not only has become one of the most viral 409 00:18:56,104 --> 00:18:59,424 Speaker 1: pieces of media around the Bell Gibson story, but also 410 00:18:59,624 --> 00:19:02,304 Speaker 1: a moment that they re enact almost word for word 411 00:19:02,464 --> 00:19:03,504 Speaker 1: in Apple Cider Vinegar. 412 00:19:03,624 --> 00:19:06,144 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they didn't change her name either, No, no, no, 413 00:19:06,184 --> 00:19:07,904 Speaker 2: there was like real Tara Brown. 414 00:19:07,664 --> 00:19:10,464 Speaker 1: You don't have to protect people's identities when your work 415 00:19:10,584 --> 00:19:13,504 Speaker 1: from something that's in the public eye. And also, you know, 416 00:19:13,664 --> 00:19:17,384 Speaker 1: it's an incredible piece of journalism from Tara Brown and 417 00:19:17,464 --> 00:19:19,064 Speaker 1: so much work went into that, so you'd want to 418 00:19:19,144 --> 00:19:21,344 Speaker 1: keep her name on it. So she took part in 419 00:19:21,384 --> 00:19:25,264 Speaker 1: a new documentary called Dangerous Lies Unmasking Bell Gibson, which 420 00:19:25,304 --> 00:19:27,384 Speaker 1: was on Channel nine this week, but you can also 421 00:19:27,424 --> 00:19:29,944 Speaker 1: watch on nine Now catch Up. She's also been doing 422 00:19:29,984 --> 00:19:32,864 Speaker 1: a lot of different interviews talking about it, and one 423 00:19:32,864 --> 00:19:35,144 Speaker 1: of the kind of interesting things I thought is like 424 00:19:35,304 --> 00:19:38,544 Speaker 1: what happened before and after the interview and how Belle 425 00:19:38,544 --> 00:19:42,704 Speaker 1: Gibson's demeanor changed. So when you see sort of the 426 00:19:42,704 --> 00:19:44,984 Speaker 1: beginning of the interview, you see that Bell Gibson seems 427 00:19:45,064 --> 00:19:47,864 Speaker 1: quite happy and relaxed, and you know there's people on 428 00:19:47,864 --> 00:19:49,344 Speaker 1: set being like, I like you jump a bell and 429 00:19:49,344 --> 00:19:52,344 Speaker 1: she's like thanks, and it's all nice. It's like she 430 00:19:52,384 --> 00:19:56,144 Speaker 1: has no idea what's really happening. Obviously on Apple side 431 00:19:56,144 --> 00:19:59,064 Speaker 1: of Vinegar, with Caitlyn Diva playing Belle, they make it 432 00:19:59,064 --> 00:20:03,024 Speaker 1: look very calculated of her demanding the money before the 433 00:20:03,064 --> 00:20:05,864 Speaker 1: interview go into her account, and it's another piece of 434 00:20:05,904 --> 00:20:08,064 Speaker 1: the puzzle to her of how she's going to get 435 00:20:08,104 --> 00:20:11,584 Speaker 1: money to sustain this lifestyle while her business is failing. 436 00:20:11,824 --> 00:20:14,144 Speaker 2: I also thought it was really interesting that the figure 437 00:20:14,184 --> 00:20:16,504 Speaker 2: it was like seventy five K that they were giving 438 00:20:16,504 --> 00:20:19,104 Speaker 2: her for the interview in the show, they made it 439 00:20:19,184 --> 00:20:21,704 Speaker 2: so similar to the figure of like the family she 440 00:20:21,784 --> 00:20:24,584 Speaker 2: owed money to charities. I was like, that's so interesting 441 00:20:24,584 --> 00:20:26,744 Speaker 2: because everyone I think sitting there was like, you better 442 00:20:26,784 --> 00:20:27,984 Speaker 2: give that money to that little boy. 443 00:20:28,104 --> 00:20:30,664 Speaker 1: You know she and we know she definitely didn't do that, 444 00:20:30,784 --> 00:20:33,704 Speaker 1: hasn't given any money back. So what Tara Brown has 445 00:20:33,704 --> 00:20:36,184 Speaker 1: said about the interview since then in a number of 446 00:20:36,184 --> 00:20:39,864 Speaker 1: different interviews and in this documentary is that it started 447 00:20:39,864 --> 00:20:42,104 Speaker 1: off quite okay, but the more they kind of pushed 448 00:20:42,144 --> 00:20:46,944 Speaker 1: with the questioning, the more agitated and angry Belle Gibson got, which, 449 00:20:46,984 --> 00:20:48,584 Speaker 1: as you can understand from a point of view, like 450 00:20:48,664 --> 00:20:50,224 Speaker 1: if you're having to like kind of answer it to 451 00:20:50,264 --> 00:20:52,664 Speaker 1: your lives, you would get very upset about it. But 452 00:20:52,744 --> 00:20:55,024 Speaker 1: it's just so interesting that it seems that she was 453 00:20:55,104 --> 00:20:57,304 Speaker 1: quite unaware of that it was going to go that way, 454 00:20:57,384 --> 00:21:00,224 Speaker 1: even though she knew she had lied, which just adds 455 00:21:00,264 --> 00:21:02,664 Speaker 1: to the layer of the question around her over the 456 00:21:02,744 --> 00:21:05,184 Speaker 1: years is how much it is calculated and how much 457 00:21:05,224 --> 00:21:08,344 Speaker 1: of it in her own mind? Did she really believe? Yeah, 458 00:21:08,384 --> 00:21:10,664 Speaker 1: like she obviously did know she was lying, but it's 459 00:21:10,664 --> 00:21:11,384 Speaker 1: like how much of her to. 460 00:21:11,424 --> 00:21:13,904 Speaker 2: The point of like couldn't even tell her like her 461 00:21:13,944 --> 00:21:14,464 Speaker 2: own age? 462 00:21:14,984 --> 00:21:16,104 Speaker 3: Well, actually, how old are you? 463 00:21:18,064 --> 00:21:23,944 Speaker 4: I've always been raised as being currently a twenty six 464 00:21:24,024 --> 00:21:24,424 Speaker 4: year old? 465 00:21:26,144 --> 00:21:26,864 Speaker 3: How old are you? 466 00:21:28,024 --> 00:21:31,024 Speaker 4: Well, I live knowing as I've always known that I 467 00:21:31,064 --> 00:21:32,104 Speaker 4: would be twenty six. 468 00:21:32,544 --> 00:21:37,064 Speaker 3: Okay, Belle, I've this is a really really simple question. 469 00:21:37,784 --> 00:21:38,544 Speaker 3: How old are you? 470 00:21:39,584 --> 00:21:40,944 Speaker 4: I believe that I'm twenty six. 471 00:21:41,264 --> 00:21:41,744 Speaker 2: I have. 472 00:21:43,264 --> 00:21:46,344 Speaker 4: Two birth certificates, and I've had my name change four times. 473 00:21:47,304 --> 00:21:50,504 Speaker 4: The identity crisis there is big, but that was my 474 00:21:50,624 --> 00:21:52,944 Speaker 4: normal when I was growing up, Tara that what. 475 00:21:52,984 --> 00:21:54,304 Speaker 3: Do you know the truth to be? 476 00:21:54,424 --> 00:21:57,304 Speaker 4: Now, that's probably a question that we'll have to keep 477 00:21:57,344 --> 00:22:00,944 Speaker 4: digging for because it's not something I've ever understood or 478 00:22:00,944 --> 00:22:01,944 Speaker 4: had answers around. 479 00:22:02,224 --> 00:22:06,584 Speaker 3: So when you needed to file some financial documents, how 480 00:22:06,624 --> 00:22:09,184 Speaker 3: did you choose the birthdate you gave? 481 00:22:09,544 --> 00:22:12,944 Speaker 4: If you don't know, that's my most recent deep Pole paper, 482 00:22:13,144 --> 00:22:16,864 Speaker 4: which has the younger of the age and the most 483 00:22:16,904 --> 00:22:19,024 Speaker 4: recent of the name right. 484 00:22:19,184 --> 00:22:24,024 Speaker 3: So currently then, according to those documents, you're twenty three. 485 00:22:25,424 --> 00:22:25,864 Speaker 4: Correct. 486 00:22:26,384 --> 00:22:31,384 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've always believe as I've always known, And Tara's. 487 00:22:31,064 --> 00:22:32,704 Speaker 2: Like, I believe I'm twenty yix. 488 00:22:32,824 --> 00:22:33,424 Speaker 4: But are you? 489 00:22:34,304 --> 00:22:36,584 Speaker 1: This is a simple question. This is not the hard question. 490 00:22:36,904 --> 00:22:38,944 Speaker 1: There is a moment where she got very agitated in 491 00:22:38,944 --> 00:22:41,184 Speaker 1: the interview Tara bound has said where she said she 492 00:22:41,184 --> 00:22:44,584 Speaker 1: felt belittled. She said that she felt very attacked and 493 00:22:44,664 --> 00:22:46,744 Speaker 1: a lot of it was to do around her asking 494 00:22:46,784 --> 00:22:50,144 Speaker 1: about her brother's diagnosis. But what's also interesting is that 495 00:22:50,184 --> 00:22:52,144 Speaker 1: obviously in the interview, and we've seen this part where 496 00:22:52,184 --> 00:22:54,424 Speaker 1: they keep saying like where are the medical records, Like 497 00:22:54,704 --> 00:22:56,784 Speaker 1: you say you've had cancer, you said you've had a stroke, 498 00:22:56,824 --> 00:22:58,384 Speaker 1: you said you've had all these like where are all 499 00:22:58,424 --> 00:23:01,824 Speaker 1: these medical records? And she can't give them. And then 500 00:23:01,944 --> 00:23:05,424 Speaker 1: apparently afterwards she did give Tara Brown the sixty minutes 501 00:23:05,464 --> 00:23:08,784 Speaker 1: team some documentation, like she willingly gave them this documentation. 502 00:23:09,184 --> 00:23:12,024 Speaker 1: And in the letter and the documents which were dated 503 00:23:12,104 --> 00:23:15,184 Speaker 1: before the whole pantry app was launched and all of 504 00:23:15,184 --> 00:23:17,904 Speaker 1: that was launched. In the documents, it says from her 505 00:23:17,904 --> 00:23:20,864 Speaker 1: medical team, you are completely well, like it's a big 506 00:23:20,944 --> 00:23:22,824 Speaker 1: document but that's what it says, it says you are well, 507 00:23:22,864 --> 00:23:25,104 Speaker 1: you don't have cancer, and so she gave them that. 508 00:23:25,264 --> 00:23:27,184 Speaker 1: So it's almost like she dug her Engrave in a 509 00:23:27,184 --> 00:23:31,064 Speaker 1: way because she handed over the documentation that said I 510 00:23:31,384 --> 00:23:34,024 Speaker 1: knew I wasn't sick and I knew I didn't have 511 00:23:34,064 --> 00:23:37,464 Speaker 1: cancer before I built this whole system, which is very different. 512 00:23:37,744 --> 00:23:38,424 Speaker 1: She talks about the. 513 00:23:38,424 --> 00:23:40,344 Speaker 2: Internet kind of confessed roughight at the end. 514 00:23:40,944 --> 00:23:42,464 Speaker 1: Afterwards she gave them the documentation. 515 00:23:43,464 --> 00:23:45,144 Speaker 2: Why didn't they use that in the interview. 516 00:23:45,344 --> 00:23:47,784 Speaker 1: Well, it came afterwards when they were trying to get 517 00:23:47,784 --> 00:23:49,504 Speaker 1: the bits and pieces. Yeah, so obviously there's a lot 518 00:23:49,504 --> 00:23:51,344 Speaker 1: of moving parts the sixty minutes into you in the 519 00:23:51,384 --> 00:23:53,864 Speaker 1: investigation they did and what they followed up. But yeah, 520 00:23:53,904 --> 00:23:55,704 Speaker 1: that's something that's come out since then, is that she 521 00:23:55,784 --> 00:23:59,384 Speaker 1: did have documents to prove her diagnosis. It just proved 522 00:23:59,424 --> 00:24:03,504 Speaker 1: that the diagnosis was your healthy and she handed it over. 523 00:24:04,104 --> 00:24:06,344 Speaker 1: Even afterwards, they were saying that a producer drove her 524 00:24:06,344 --> 00:24:08,264 Speaker 1: home and she kind of seemed okay, like she was 525 00:24:08,384 --> 00:24:11,104 Speaker 1: just not aware of what happened, which. 526 00:24:11,024 --> 00:24:13,904 Speaker 2: You see Caitlin Diva play so well, right, like just 527 00:24:14,424 --> 00:24:17,344 Speaker 2: unaware of how many lives she is destroyed. Yeah, and 528 00:24:17,424 --> 00:24:19,664 Speaker 2: just being like knowing about it but not thinking that 529 00:24:19,704 --> 00:24:20,384 Speaker 2: it's a big deal. 530 00:24:20,504 --> 00:24:23,024 Speaker 1: Yeah, she's the worst kind of girl boss. Towards the 531 00:24:23,104 --> 00:24:25,984 Speaker 1: end in the Apple Side of Vinegar series where they're 532 00:24:25,984 --> 00:24:28,544 Speaker 1: sitting on the couch eating pasta after everything has happened, 533 00:24:28,584 --> 00:24:30,624 Speaker 1: and she's like, you is just gluten free and he's 534 00:24:30,664 --> 00:24:32,864 Speaker 1: just like shut up, like absolutely, don't bring that up 535 00:24:32,904 --> 00:24:34,504 Speaker 1: right now. But then she is, we need to go 536 00:24:34,584 --> 00:24:37,424 Speaker 1: somewhere where you don't get punished for startup culture, where 537 00:24:37,424 --> 00:24:39,584 Speaker 1: they don't try and tear people down, and it's like, yeah, 538 00:24:39,584 --> 00:24:42,224 Speaker 1: in her head, she does think that she's being torn 539 00:24:42,264 --> 00:24:45,384 Speaker 1: down for being a self starter not lying about her 540 00:24:45,384 --> 00:24:48,864 Speaker 1: cancer diagnosis. And that's the interesting thing about Bell Gibson 541 00:24:48,944 --> 00:24:51,304 Speaker 1: is like she obviously knows she lied, but how much 542 00:24:51,344 --> 00:24:53,984 Speaker 1: of it does she believe in her own mind? Which 543 00:24:54,024 --> 00:24:55,984 Speaker 1: I think is very interesting. So yeah, the more you 544 00:24:56,064 --> 00:24:58,344 Speaker 1: care about the mechanics that interview and what went on 545 00:24:58,424 --> 00:25:01,104 Speaker 1: behind the scenes, the more interesting it is. And I've 546 00:25:01,144 --> 00:25:04,624 Speaker 1: seen a few other different publications come out and either 547 00:25:04,784 --> 00:25:06,864 Speaker 1: admit fold or then talk about what it was like 548 00:25:06,904 --> 00:25:10,224 Speaker 1: when they interviewed Bell Gibson. And one interesting post and 549 00:25:10,424 --> 00:25:12,824 Speaker 1: article I've seen is from Peppermint Magazine, which is a 550 00:25:12,824 --> 00:25:16,504 Speaker 1: publication I follow, and this article is entitled Belle Gibson 551 00:25:16,584 --> 00:25:19,984 Speaker 1: A Spoonful of Vinegar. It talks about having Bell Gibson 552 00:25:19,984 --> 00:25:22,984 Speaker 1: on the cover of their spring issue in twenty fourteen, 553 00:25:23,464 --> 00:25:26,344 Speaker 1: and it starts off by saying, accountability can be uncomfortable, 554 00:25:26,624 --> 00:25:28,624 Speaker 1: but I can tell you what feels worse living with 555 00:25:28,664 --> 00:25:31,184 Speaker 1: an apology you've held on too for over a decade. 556 00:25:31,464 --> 00:25:34,744 Speaker 1: Watching Apple's Side of Vinegar starring Caitlyn Diva on Netflix 557 00:25:34,784 --> 00:25:37,424 Speaker 1: this past week has brought up a cascade of emotions. 558 00:25:37,864 --> 00:25:39,904 Speaker 1: And then they go on to say that they kind 559 00:25:39,904 --> 00:25:41,864 Speaker 1: of give it behind the scenes how they decided that 560 00:25:41,864 --> 00:25:43,424 Speaker 1: Belle was going to be on the cover as the 561 00:25:43,424 --> 00:25:46,104 Speaker 1: part of the Food for Thought main feature. They said, 562 00:25:46,144 --> 00:25:49,064 Speaker 1: we were enamored with Belle as everyone else. She was charismatic, 563 00:25:49,104 --> 00:25:51,984 Speaker 1: confident in oh so inspiring. And this is where it 564 00:25:52,024 --> 00:25:53,704 Speaker 1: gets kind of interesting about what it was like to 565 00:25:53,704 --> 00:25:56,184 Speaker 1: deal with her before all of this came out. That 566 00:25:56,344 --> 00:25:58,864 Speaker 1: was a lie, and that in this article they write 567 00:25:58,864 --> 00:26:00,784 Speaker 1: about the fact they sent her a list of interview 568 00:26:00,864 --> 00:26:03,344 Speaker 1: questions and they asked her to talk about her app 569 00:26:03,344 --> 00:26:06,864 Speaker 1: and her community. And then they said that the answers 570 00:26:06,904 --> 00:26:10,064 Speaker 1: that came back were a little disappointing, and they were 571 00:26:10,064 --> 00:26:13,464 Speaker 1: confers us because she had only spoken about the technical 572 00:26:13,504 --> 00:26:16,384 Speaker 1: aspects of the app and nothing about her story or 573 00:26:16,384 --> 00:26:19,064 Speaker 1: her community, and her answers had no heart and soul. 574 00:26:18,864 --> 00:26:20,624 Speaker 2: Which she kind of saw that in the show, right, 575 00:26:20,784 --> 00:26:23,024 Speaker 2: you saw her like, especially with the book Dealer, how 576 00:26:23,104 --> 00:26:26,224 Speaker 2: she wanted to remove her name from it completely and 577 00:26:26,264 --> 00:26:28,344 Speaker 2: not have it so she wanted it to be the 578 00:26:28,344 --> 00:26:31,104 Speaker 2: pantry by the pantry. Yeah, and she didn't want to 579 00:26:31,104 --> 00:26:32,624 Speaker 2: talk about her cancer journey at all. 580 00:26:32,904 --> 00:26:35,584 Speaker 1: Yeah. It's like when she realized how big the lie 581 00:26:35,744 --> 00:26:38,504 Speaker 1: was getting and how she started doing all these interviews 582 00:26:38,504 --> 00:26:41,064 Speaker 1: and covers and TV spots and they were doing all 583 00:26:41,104 --> 00:26:42,944 Speaker 1: this press around the book is then she kind of 584 00:26:42,984 --> 00:26:45,864 Speaker 1: almost wanted to remove herself from the narrative because she 585 00:26:45,904 --> 00:26:48,904 Speaker 1: could sense people were getting too close. And it's interesting 586 00:26:48,944 --> 00:26:50,784 Speaker 1: because they say then they had to go back to 587 00:26:50,824 --> 00:26:53,464 Speaker 1: her and say like, hey, can you put some more 588 00:26:53,464 --> 00:26:56,224 Speaker 1: information in here, basically saying we can't make a cover 589 00:26:56,304 --> 00:26:59,144 Speaker 1: out of this. Then they say, then her answers came back, 590 00:26:59,144 --> 00:27:02,184 Speaker 1: and they were full of emotion and full of these 591 00:27:02,184 --> 00:27:04,824 Speaker 1: beautiful declarations, and they said, like, we'll give her. One 592 00:27:04,904 --> 00:27:07,184 Speaker 1: thing is that she was great with words, like once 593 00:27:07,224 --> 00:27:09,504 Speaker 1: she got going and she got into her lie, she 594 00:27:09,624 --> 00:27:11,704 Speaker 1: really believed it. So they put out the cover story 595 00:27:12,024 --> 00:27:14,064 Speaker 1: and that was around the team time that, as we 596 00:27:14,104 --> 00:27:16,824 Speaker 1: see in the show, she put up that very infamous 597 00:27:17,344 --> 00:27:20,984 Speaker 1: photo of the pink balloons on her Instagram and talked 598 00:27:20,984 --> 00:27:22,984 Speaker 1: about her cancer coming back. So we see that in 599 00:27:23,024 --> 00:27:25,744 Speaker 1: the show that happened in real life. And at the 600 00:27:25,824 --> 00:27:28,224 Speaker 1: time that was when the magazine was about to come 601 00:27:28,264 --> 00:27:30,704 Speaker 1: out with her on the cover, and they say in 602 00:27:30,744 --> 00:27:33,264 Speaker 1: this article Peppermint Magazine that they offered to not run 603 00:27:33,304 --> 00:27:35,264 Speaker 1: the cover, and she said, no, no, it's my legacy. 604 00:27:35,744 --> 00:27:37,704 Speaker 1: I want you to put it out. And then she 605 00:27:37,784 --> 00:27:40,304 Speaker 1: told the world that she was going to step away 606 00:27:40,304 --> 00:27:43,184 Speaker 1: from the spotlight, step away from the public eye, and 607 00:27:43,304 --> 00:27:45,944 Speaker 1: just spend time with her son, because this new diagnosis 608 00:27:45,984 --> 00:27:48,264 Speaker 1: meant that she didn't have a lot of time left. 609 00:27:48,304 --> 00:27:51,784 Speaker 1: And obviously every person who'd interviewed her, everyone had her team. 610 00:27:52,304 --> 00:27:55,064 Speaker 1: Her fans were also supportive and like, yes, do that. 611 00:27:55,504 --> 00:27:57,984 Speaker 1: And then they said when the magazine came out, they 612 00:27:58,024 --> 00:28:02,584 Speaker 1: contacted Bell and she showed them photos where she had 613 00:28:02,624 --> 00:28:05,744 Speaker 1: the magazine in la at the Apple offices, and she 614 00:28:05,784 --> 00:28:07,584 Speaker 1: was seeing them photos being like, yes, love the cover. 615 00:28:07,904 --> 00:28:09,944 Speaker 1: I've got the magazine here, it's on the table at Apple. 616 00:28:09,944 --> 00:28:12,664 Speaker 1: And they were like, well, hang on, like, aren't you dying. 617 00:28:13,024 --> 00:28:15,184 Speaker 1: I'm paraphrasing now like you said you were dying. You're 618 00:28:15,184 --> 00:28:17,784 Speaker 1: spending time with your son. But they said it was 619 00:28:17,824 --> 00:28:19,824 Speaker 1: very It was comfortable for them because they knew what 620 00:28:19,864 --> 00:28:22,024 Speaker 1: the world for but they knew she was in Apple 621 00:28:22,344 --> 00:28:24,184 Speaker 1: in LA and it was just one of those times 622 00:28:24,224 --> 00:28:27,264 Speaker 1: of sort of seeing like how a publication was dealing 623 00:28:27,344 --> 00:28:29,304 Speaker 1: with her behind the scenes. So I think there's so 624 00:28:29,344 --> 00:28:30,224 Speaker 1: many people at the moment. 625 00:28:30,344 --> 00:28:33,024 Speaker 2: It's like you have that gut feeling you know something's wrong, 626 00:28:33,064 --> 00:28:34,864 Speaker 2: but you can't just you just can't pin it. 627 00:28:35,144 --> 00:28:37,664 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And I think there's so many people now, 628 00:28:37,864 --> 00:28:40,304 Speaker 1: Like I keep seeing posts from people who had photos 629 00:28:40,304 --> 00:28:42,544 Speaker 1: with her at events saying like I like reposting them 630 00:28:42,584 --> 00:28:45,704 Speaker 1: and saying I didn't know. So many outlets now backtracking 631 00:28:45,704 --> 00:28:50,344 Speaker 1: on their interviews or signs or something they have to spotted. Well, well, 632 00:28:50,384 --> 00:28:53,424 Speaker 1: actually the last time she was spotted. Obviously, everyone at 633 00:28:53,424 --> 00:28:57,584 Speaker 1: the moment has been chasing Belle Gibson for an interview 634 00:28:57,624 --> 00:29:00,424 Speaker 1: for information, and every story I read about Apple Sided. 635 00:29:00,504 --> 00:29:02,664 Speaker 1: Viinga says at the bottom, we have reached out to 636 00:29:02,704 --> 00:29:05,184 Speaker 1: Bell Gibson for comment and heard nothing back, so she's 637 00:29:05,264 --> 00:29:08,304 Speaker 1: really keeping her head down. People say she's furious. It's 638 00:29:08,344 --> 00:29:10,344 Speaker 1: hard to say because no one's like, there's no credible 639 00:29:10,584 --> 00:29:13,824 Speaker 1: sources that we're talking to around her. But in February 640 00:29:14,144 --> 00:29:17,184 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, so February last year, a reporter from 641 00:29:17,184 --> 00:29:19,984 Speaker 1: a current affair approached Bell Gibson at the petrol station. 642 00:29:20,064 --> 00:29:21,944 Speaker 1: This is one of the last times she was spotted 643 00:29:22,504 --> 00:29:25,144 Speaker 1: and asked why she hadn't paid a cent of her fines, 644 00:29:25,184 --> 00:29:28,544 Speaker 1: and she responded, have some humanity. I haven't paid things 645 00:29:28,544 --> 00:29:33,464 Speaker 1: because I can't afford to. Well, she probably has no money, 646 00:29:33,504 --> 00:29:36,744 Speaker 1: but that twenty five k, well, that's the thing. During 647 00:29:36,784 --> 00:29:39,544 Speaker 1: the whole court case, she went on a very luxurious 648 00:29:39,544 --> 00:29:43,664 Speaker 1: holiday overseas holiday and photographers and journalists were waiting at 649 00:29:43,664 --> 00:29:46,384 Speaker 1: the airport when she landed, and she was very angry 650 00:29:46,384 --> 00:29:48,224 Speaker 1: that they were harassing her. And when she was asked 651 00:29:48,224 --> 00:29:50,424 Speaker 1: about it in court, she said that Clive had paid 652 00:29:50,464 --> 00:29:51,984 Speaker 1: for it. And when they said what does Clive do, 653 00:29:52,104 --> 00:29:54,304 Speaker 1: she said, I don't know. They said, where does Clive 654 00:29:54,344 --> 00:29:56,264 Speaker 1: get his money? She's like I don't know, to be fair, 655 00:29:56,304 --> 00:29:59,784 Speaker 1: that's like me with every matter. So at this point 656 00:29:59,824 --> 00:30:03,544 Speaker 1: in time, she hasn't paid her fines. But Victorian Premierge 657 00:30:03,584 --> 00:30:06,784 Speaker 1: just into Alan last week confirmed that Consumer Affairs are 658 00:30:06,904 --> 00:30:08,784 Speaker 1: now like really pursuing the matter. I think it's a 659 00:30:08,784 --> 00:30:11,984 Speaker 1: lot of high now, so we'll see. But yeah, there's 660 00:30:12,024 --> 00:30:15,104 Speaker 1: been a lot of fallout from Apple side of Vinegar 661 00:30:15,224 --> 00:30:17,744 Speaker 1: and a lot of families talking about the money they 662 00:30:17,784 --> 00:30:20,304 Speaker 1: never got and like what happened to their families and 663 00:30:20,584 --> 00:30:22,224 Speaker 1: you know all that sort of stuff, and how people 664 00:30:22,264 --> 00:30:24,424 Speaker 1: didn't want to like help them out because they thought 665 00:30:24,464 --> 00:30:27,464 Speaker 1: they had been part of the trick, the Bell Gibson trick, 666 00:30:27,504 --> 00:30:30,344 Speaker 1: whereas they were just people with sick kids who wanted 667 00:30:30,344 --> 00:30:32,304 Speaker 1: to like take this help from this woman who offered 668 00:30:32,304 --> 00:30:35,384 Speaker 1: it to them. So between like the journalists who were 669 00:30:35,384 --> 00:30:38,144 Speaker 1: telling their stories and the family of jesse Ain's co 670 00:30:38,864 --> 00:30:41,104 Speaker 1: and the people who are involved in it, and even 671 00:30:41,224 --> 00:30:43,464 Speaker 1: like for Bell Gibbson herself, like the fallout from the 672 00:30:43,464 --> 00:30:46,384 Speaker 1: show has been immense, but hopefully some good will come 673 00:30:46,384 --> 00:30:48,784 Speaker 1: of it in a way in terms of just highlighting 674 00:30:49,224 --> 00:30:50,584 Speaker 1: that what you see online isn't real. 675 00:30:50,824 --> 00:30:53,664 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much for listening to this bill today. 676 00:30:53,904 --> 00:30:56,864 Speaker 2: If you haven't already, please listen to our broodly honest 677 00:30:56,904 --> 00:30:59,424 Speaker 2: review of Apple Side of Vinegar. We will link it 678 00:30:59,464 --> 00:31:01,264 Speaker 2: in our show notes, or you can just scroll back 679 00:31:01,304 --> 00:31:04,064 Speaker 2: and see what else you miss. Also, Mum and mea 680 00:31:04,144 --> 00:31:07,304 Speaker 2: podcast true crime Conversations, is dropping an interview which in 681 00:31:07,424 --> 00:31:10,984 Speaker 2: their mccauliffe she was the real life whistleblower who first 682 00:31:11,064 --> 00:31:15,024 Speaker 2: exposed Belle Gibson's lives, and she shares some exclusive details 683 00:31:15,064 --> 00:31:18,384 Speaker 2: about confronting Belle, uncovering the truth, and her thoughts on 684 00:31:18,464 --> 00:31:21,464 Speaker 2: being portrayed in the new series that is dropping tomorrow. 685 00:31:21,504 --> 00:31:23,864 Speaker 2: We'll put a link to that episode in our show notes. 686 00:31:24,344 --> 00:31:26,784 Speaker 2: The Spill is produced by Kimberly Bradish with sound production 687 00:31:26,824 --> 00:31:28,744 Speaker 2: by Scott Stronik and we'll be back here in your 688 00:31:28,784 --> 00:31:30,744 Speaker 2: podcast feed at three pm tomorrow. 689 00:31:30,824 --> 00:31:37,304 Speaker 1: Bye bye.