1 00:00:10,294 --> 00:00:15,254 Speaker 1: So you're listening to Amma Mea podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges 2 00:00:15,294 --> 00:00:18,134 Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast 3 00:00:18,214 --> 00:00:19,494 Speaker 1: is recorded on Hey. 4 00:00:19,414 --> 00:00:22,094 Speaker 2: QUICKI Friends Taylor dropping into your feed today for a 5 00:00:22,294 --> 00:00:23,494 Speaker 2: listening recommendation. 6 00:00:24,134 --> 00:00:25,774 Speaker 1: But are You Happy is back. 7 00:00:25,614 --> 00:00:28,174 Speaker 2: For another season, ready to tackle all your mental health 8 00:00:28,294 --> 00:00:32,254 Speaker 2: questions and qualms. This time, hosts as Shani Dante and 9 00:00:32,294 --> 00:00:35,734 Speaker 2: psychologist doctor Anastasia Harnus are here to help fit out 10 00:00:35,774 --> 00:00:39,374 Speaker 2: your mental health toolkits with everything we need to face 11 00:00:39,414 --> 00:00:43,974 Speaker 2: life's trials and tribulations. Like in the latest episode, Anastasia 12 00:00:44,014 --> 00:00:46,374 Speaker 2: teaches us how to do maybe one of the hardest 13 00:00:46,374 --> 00:00:49,774 Speaker 2: things ever, and that is saying no, especially to the 14 00:00:49,774 --> 00:00:50,614 Speaker 2: people that we love. 15 00:00:50,974 --> 00:00:52,814 Speaker 3: Take a listen. We think you'll like this one. 16 00:00:53,254 --> 00:00:54,414 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's sounds so fun. 17 00:00:54,574 --> 00:00:56,374 Speaker 3: I can't come though, because I have a think tomorrow. 18 00:00:56,694 --> 00:00:57,974 Speaker 3: What you have a thing tomorrow? 19 00:00:58,494 --> 00:01:01,134 Speaker 1: But think? What are you doing? Well? I'm just busy tomorrow, 20 00:01:01,174 --> 00:01:03,734 Speaker 1: Like I just enblive no, Like we can all hang out, 21 00:01:03,774 --> 00:01:05,214 Speaker 1: Like we'll just pick you up at E and we 22 00:01:05,214 --> 00:01:06,854 Speaker 1: can all hang out. And I don't want to hang 23 00:01:06,854 --> 00:01:07,494 Speaker 1: out with you tomorrow. 24 00:01:08,454 --> 00:01:11,534 Speaker 3: We don't want to fucking hear out with you tomorrow. Well, 25 00:01:11,574 --> 00:01:13,294 Speaker 3: why don't you just see you? 26 00:01:13,374 --> 00:01:13,894 Speaker 1: I was busy. 27 00:01:14,054 --> 00:01:15,614 Speaker 3: You just keep asking fucking questions. 28 00:01:15,654 --> 00:01:17,854 Speaker 1: It's cold boundaries, stop making mean for those those stress 29 00:01:21,294 --> 00:01:24,934 Speaker 1: or Mama Mia, I'm your host, Ashani Dante, welcome to 30 00:01:25,254 --> 00:01:29,094 Speaker 1: But are you happy? Because doom scrolling is its self reflection? 31 00:01:30,014 --> 00:01:34,294 Speaker 3: And I'm doctor Anastasia hernis a clinical psychologist passionate about 32 00:01:34,334 --> 00:01:38,214 Speaker 3: happiness and mental health. Today, we are going to tackle 33 00:01:38,334 --> 00:01:41,014 Speaker 3: one of the most common challenges that so many of 34 00:01:41,014 --> 00:01:45,854 Speaker 3: my clients are facing. How to say no, especially to 35 00:01:45,894 --> 00:01:46,894 Speaker 3: the people we love. 36 00:01:47,694 --> 00:01:50,014 Speaker 1: Well. This is a big one that this is something 37 00:01:50,054 --> 00:01:53,094 Speaker 1: I see in myself and so many of my friends too, 38 00:01:53,454 --> 00:01:56,614 Speaker 1: especially women. Are we going to learn how to say 39 00:01:57,054 --> 00:01:59,734 Speaker 1: no with our full body by the end of this 40 00:01:59,814 --> 00:02:03,134 Speaker 1: episode one hundred percent? This is actually one of my 41 00:02:03,254 --> 00:02:11,174 Speaker 1: favorite things to teach people. Let's get stuck in, okay, Anastasia. 42 00:02:11,254 --> 00:02:15,374 Speaker 1: We hear this idea of toxic relationship a lot, But 43 00:02:15,774 --> 00:02:19,494 Speaker 1: how do we actually know if we have an unhealthy 44 00:02:19,574 --> 00:02:20,734 Speaker 1: dynamic with someone? 45 00:02:20,934 --> 00:02:24,054 Speaker 3: Yeah, so toxic isn't a clinical definition, right The or 46 00:02:24,054 --> 00:02:26,774 Speaker 3: a toxic gets thrown around a lot, for sure, But 47 00:02:26,894 --> 00:02:29,014 Speaker 3: I like to use the term sort of an unhealthy 48 00:02:29,134 --> 00:02:32,854 Speaker 3: dynamic or an unhealthy relationship. And this can look like 49 00:02:33,014 --> 00:02:35,734 Speaker 3: so many different things. Again, there isn't like a one 50 00:02:35,774 --> 00:02:37,934 Speaker 3: size fits all answer with this. It can present in 51 00:02:38,014 --> 00:02:40,494 Speaker 3: so many different ways. But to give you a couple 52 00:02:40,494 --> 00:02:43,654 Speaker 3: of examples as to what an unhealthy dynamic might look like, 53 00:02:44,414 --> 00:02:48,174 Speaker 3: it might look like a relationship where there's an imbalance 54 00:02:48,174 --> 00:02:52,174 Speaker 3: of power. So one person doesn't necessarily feel like their 55 00:02:52,254 --> 00:02:55,774 Speaker 3: voice is heard, like they have the capacity in the 56 00:02:55,814 --> 00:02:59,574 Speaker 3: relationship to say no, to speak their mind, to voice 57 00:02:59,614 --> 00:03:03,414 Speaker 3: their opinion. There's some sort of imbalance in the relationship 58 00:03:03,414 --> 00:03:07,414 Speaker 3: when it comes to power dynamics. It might be that 59 00:03:07,454 --> 00:03:11,174 Speaker 3: a person feels like they can't fully be themselves, their 60 00:03:11,214 --> 00:03:14,654 Speaker 3: authentic self, like they have to hide parts of their 61 00:03:14,694 --> 00:03:18,614 Speaker 3: identity or keep parts of themselves hidden from the other person. 62 00:03:19,174 --> 00:03:21,854 Speaker 3: So it's this idea of not being fully accepted for 63 00:03:21,894 --> 00:03:24,414 Speaker 3: who we are by our partner or by someone in 64 00:03:24,454 --> 00:03:27,734 Speaker 3: a relationship. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that a person 65 00:03:27,814 --> 00:03:30,574 Speaker 3: has to like all of us, because being accepted is 66 00:03:30,574 --> 00:03:34,534 Speaker 3: different to being liked. You know, I might not like 67 00:03:34,734 --> 00:03:37,654 Speaker 3: every part of someone, but I can accept them for 68 00:03:37,774 --> 00:03:40,774 Speaker 3: who they are. And I guess again, coming back to 69 00:03:40,814 --> 00:03:43,934 Speaker 3: this idea of I need to feel like I can 70 00:03:43,974 --> 00:03:46,174 Speaker 3: be myself and I can have a voice. If that 71 00:03:46,294 --> 00:03:49,174 Speaker 3: isn't there, then we're really looking at an unhealthy dynamic 72 00:03:49,174 --> 00:03:50,014 Speaker 3: in a relationship. 73 00:03:50,134 --> 00:03:52,774 Speaker 1: Essentially, what I'm hearing is at the bottom of it. 74 00:03:52,814 --> 00:03:56,334 Speaker 1: If the relationship doesn't have those key foundations of trust 75 00:03:56,374 --> 00:03:59,254 Speaker 1: and safety, a lot of things can happen, which I 76 00:03:59,294 --> 00:04:01,094 Speaker 1: know we'll dive into a little bit later. 77 00:04:01,654 --> 00:04:05,094 Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I love that you use the words trust 78 00:04:05,254 --> 00:04:07,414 Speaker 3: and safety because when we think about what a healthy 79 00:04:07,454 --> 00:04:09,814 Speaker 3: relationship looks like, or a healthy dynamic looks like on 80 00:04:09,854 --> 00:04:13,254 Speaker 3: the flip side, it absolutely is one where we feel 81 00:04:13,334 --> 00:04:16,814 Speaker 3: like we have that trust and that security in the 82 00:04:16,894 --> 00:04:20,974 Speaker 3: relationship with someone. And the reality is we all have 83 00:04:21,734 --> 00:04:25,294 Speaker 3: what we refer to in the psychology world as core 84 00:04:25,614 --> 00:04:29,414 Speaker 3: emotional needs. So we all have core physical needs, right 85 00:04:29,454 --> 00:04:33,574 Speaker 3: we all need water and food and shelter and protection 86 00:04:33,694 --> 00:04:37,254 Speaker 3: from the elements, etc. But we all also have core 87 00:04:37,574 --> 00:04:41,614 Speaker 3: emotional needs. So these are things like we all have 88 00:04:41,734 --> 00:04:45,574 Speaker 3: the need for secure attachment with other people. We need 89 00:04:45,614 --> 00:04:48,534 Speaker 3: to feel safe and securely connected to other people in 90 00:04:48,574 --> 00:04:52,974 Speaker 3: our life. We all have the need for being able 91 00:04:53,054 --> 00:04:58,814 Speaker 3: to express ourselves emotionally and to have that heard and validated. 92 00:04:58,894 --> 00:05:03,494 Speaker 3: By other people, and we all have the need for autonomy, 93 00:05:03,614 --> 00:05:07,134 Speaker 3: for competence, for independence, to have a sense of self, 94 00:05:07,534 --> 00:05:09,454 Speaker 3: to know who I am in the world and feel 95 00:05:09,774 --> 00:05:11,454 Speaker 3: I can express that freely. 96 00:05:11,934 --> 00:05:15,094 Speaker 1: And I really it's kind of extending on to expressing 97 00:05:15,134 --> 00:05:17,934 Speaker 1: that freely. I think it's really interesting because when we 98 00:05:18,054 --> 00:05:22,734 Speaker 1: think of unhealthy relationships and healthy relating, I feel like 99 00:05:22,774 --> 00:05:26,014 Speaker 1: communication is really important. And the reality is in a 100 00:05:26,014 --> 00:05:29,294 Speaker 1: healthy relationship you are going to come up against conflict 101 00:05:29,454 --> 00:05:32,894 Speaker 1: and disagreements and everything like that. But I think it's 102 00:05:32,934 --> 00:05:36,654 Speaker 1: around how do you move through that process? 103 00:05:36,934 --> 00:05:40,414 Speaker 3: Absolutely, absolutely, and I think it's important at this point 104 00:05:40,454 --> 00:05:44,614 Speaker 3: as well to differentiate between things that are never okay 105 00:05:44,654 --> 00:05:49,854 Speaker 3: in a relationship versus dynamics that maybe don't suit us personally. 106 00:05:50,374 --> 00:05:52,734 Speaker 3: So we never want to be in a relationship where 107 00:05:52,734 --> 00:05:57,814 Speaker 3: we're consistently criticized, put down, called names by our partner 108 00:05:57,894 --> 00:06:00,054 Speaker 3: or by a friend, or by anyone we're in some 109 00:06:00,094 --> 00:06:02,694 Speaker 3: sort of friendship or relationship with. You know, there are 110 00:06:02,734 --> 00:06:05,374 Speaker 3: certainly some no goes that we don't want to accept. 111 00:06:05,854 --> 00:06:08,614 Speaker 3: But then there's also the other side where the way 112 00:06:08,774 --> 00:06:11,374 Speaker 3: I show up in the world might just be very 113 00:06:11,414 --> 00:06:14,254 Speaker 3: fundamentally different to how someone else shows up in the world, 114 00:06:14,574 --> 00:06:17,454 Speaker 3: and that creates a lot of friction and tension and conflict. 115 00:06:17,454 --> 00:06:20,454 Speaker 3: And it doesn't mean anyone's doing anything wrong. It just 116 00:06:20,574 --> 00:06:23,334 Speaker 3: means that the dynamic doesn't work as seamlessly as we 117 00:06:23,414 --> 00:06:24,014 Speaker 3: might like it to. 118 00:06:24,414 --> 00:06:28,334 Speaker 1: So obviously, for our purposes today, let's drill down on 119 00:06:28,494 --> 00:06:32,174 Speaker 1: how to say no, specifically to people we are actually 120 00:06:32,214 --> 00:06:34,614 Speaker 1: in some sort of relationship with. You know that can 121 00:06:34,654 --> 00:06:37,014 Speaker 1: be family, partners and friends. 122 00:06:37,374 --> 00:06:40,534 Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely. I have a great example that comes to 123 00:06:40,574 --> 00:06:44,094 Speaker 3: mind of someone I worked with. We'll call her Rebecca, 124 00:06:44,654 --> 00:06:49,454 Speaker 3: and she found herself in a really challenging dynamic with 125 00:06:49,494 --> 00:06:52,454 Speaker 3: her mum. The kind of mother daughter relationship is one 126 00:06:52,454 --> 00:06:53,934 Speaker 3: that I and then I hear about a fair bit. 127 00:06:53,974 --> 00:06:57,014 Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie in the therapy room where there 128 00:06:57,094 --> 00:07:01,294 Speaker 3: are certain expectations sometimes placed on a daughter to show 129 00:07:01,374 --> 00:07:03,294 Speaker 3: up in certain ways, whether that be how she kind 130 00:07:03,294 --> 00:07:05,934 Speaker 3: of presents herself in the world. So this person I 131 00:07:05,974 --> 00:07:08,734 Speaker 3: worked with, Rebecca, had a lot of expectations from mom 132 00:07:08,734 --> 00:07:10,574 Speaker 3: as to how she should look, what she should wear, 133 00:07:10,694 --> 00:07:14,054 Speaker 3: how she should interact with other people, but also how 134 00:07:14,054 --> 00:07:17,174 Speaker 3: she should contribute as an adult to the family, how 135 00:07:17,214 --> 00:07:20,414 Speaker 3: she should help out, how she should help take family 136 00:07:20,454 --> 00:07:23,294 Speaker 3: members to doctor's appointments and help them with the groceries 137 00:07:23,334 --> 00:07:25,734 Speaker 3: and the shopping, and you know, be available for all 138 00:07:25,774 --> 00:07:28,014 Speaker 3: the family lunches and dinners. So there was just a 139 00:07:28,014 --> 00:07:31,734 Speaker 3: lot of expectations placed on her and she really struggled 140 00:07:31,814 --> 00:07:36,734 Speaker 3: to figure out how to maintain her own independence and 141 00:07:36,814 --> 00:07:42,254 Speaker 3: identity and life whilst also keeping that relationship with her mum, 142 00:07:42,294 --> 00:07:43,574 Speaker 3: because at the end of the day, it's not like 143 00:07:43,614 --> 00:07:45,734 Speaker 3: she wanted to cut mum off. She wanted a happy, 144 00:07:45,774 --> 00:07:48,854 Speaker 3: healthy relationship with her, but just struggle to navigate that. 145 00:07:49,534 --> 00:07:52,894 Speaker 1: Okay, so there's a lot of Rebecca's tuning in today. 146 00:07:53,494 --> 00:07:57,134 Speaker 1: Why is it that we're so inclined to say yes? 147 00:07:58,374 --> 00:08:01,214 Speaker 3: This is a great question because again it comes back 148 00:08:01,254 --> 00:08:05,174 Speaker 3: to biology and what we're hardwired. I know, last week 149 00:08:05,214 --> 00:08:08,054 Speaker 3: we were talking about emotions and how those are sort 150 00:08:08,094 --> 00:08:12,654 Speaker 3: of biologically ingrained dinner us. This desire to say yes 151 00:08:13,734 --> 00:08:17,734 Speaker 3: or the desire to not say no is biologically ingrained 152 00:08:17,774 --> 00:08:22,414 Speaker 3: in us. And I'll explain why from an evolutionary perspective. 153 00:08:22,454 --> 00:08:25,454 Speaker 3: If we think back to the caveman days, it was 154 00:08:25,614 --> 00:08:28,774 Speaker 3: really important for us to be part of the pack 155 00:08:29,454 --> 00:08:32,934 Speaker 3: for the survival of ourselves and survival of the species. 156 00:08:32,974 --> 00:08:35,694 Speaker 3: We needed to be part of the broader group, and 157 00:08:35,734 --> 00:08:37,934 Speaker 3: if we weren't, if we were isolated, we were more 158 00:08:38,014 --> 00:08:40,614 Speaker 3: vulnerable to threats, would be more likely to be eaten 159 00:08:40,694 --> 00:08:42,974 Speaker 3: by a tiger or a lion, or we'd be more 160 00:08:43,094 --> 00:08:45,534 Speaker 3: vulnerable in life and it would be harder to survive. 161 00:08:46,294 --> 00:08:49,774 Speaker 3: So we have this ingrained sense of wanting to do 162 00:08:49,894 --> 00:08:55,174 Speaker 3: what we need to do to stay connected with others. Nowadays, 163 00:08:55,214 --> 00:08:58,654 Speaker 3: fast forward, how many hundreds and thousands of years, we 164 00:08:58,694 --> 00:09:03,694 Speaker 3: can survive pretty easily without that desire and ingrained need 165 00:09:03,734 --> 00:09:05,934 Speaker 3: to be so connected to other people. Right on a 166 00:09:05,974 --> 00:09:09,774 Speaker 3: physical level, we can survive. But because it is so 167 00:09:09,934 --> 00:09:12,814 Speaker 3: primal that part of us that wants to stay connected, 168 00:09:13,214 --> 00:09:15,814 Speaker 3: we find it quite hard to say no, and we 169 00:09:15,854 --> 00:09:18,654 Speaker 3: find that we are more inclined to say yes sometimes 170 00:09:18,654 --> 00:09:20,014 Speaker 3: when we actually do mean no. 171 00:09:21,414 --> 00:09:24,654 Speaker 1: It's interesting when you say that, because I'm thinking about 172 00:09:24,894 --> 00:09:27,934 Speaker 1: how there's so many times where I actually want to 173 00:09:27,974 --> 00:09:30,934 Speaker 1: say no, but I say yes. But then in my body, 174 00:09:30,974 --> 00:09:34,174 Speaker 1: I'm actually feeling all these different sensations, Like I know 175 00:09:34,214 --> 00:09:36,654 Speaker 1: you're talking about the biology of things, is what's going 176 00:09:36,694 --> 00:09:40,054 Speaker 1: on in the body, Like is the actual physical symptoms. 177 00:09:40,454 --> 00:09:43,774 Speaker 3: Exactly in what you describe where we say yes, but 178 00:09:43,854 --> 00:09:46,974 Speaker 3: we actually mean no. We feel that tension, right, And 179 00:09:47,014 --> 00:09:50,014 Speaker 3: again I come back to emotions are sources of data 180 00:09:50,054 --> 00:09:53,774 Speaker 3: and information. If we're feeling that tension in the gut, 181 00:09:53,934 --> 00:09:57,574 Speaker 3: in our body somewhere, I would say to listeners, tune 182 00:09:57,574 --> 00:10:00,934 Speaker 3: into that feeling because it's telling you something. It's giving 183 00:10:00,974 --> 00:10:04,694 Speaker 3: you some sort of message that there's this conflict internally 184 00:10:04,774 --> 00:10:05,574 Speaker 3: happening within you. 185 00:10:05,974 --> 00:10:08,814 Speaker 1: So what is the impact of when we say yes 186 00:10:08,854 --> 00:10:09,294 Speaker 1: too much? 187 00:10:10,134 --> 00:10:13,974 Speaker 3: It often means that we end up over committing. So 188 00:10:14,014 --> 00:10:16,054 Speaker 3: we might be saying yes to too many things and 189 00:10:16,094 --> 00:10:18,534 Speaker 3: then we're over committed. But the downside of that is 190 00:10:18,534 --> 00:10:21,454 Speaker 3: that maybe we don't end up having time for the 191 00:10:21,534 --> 00:10:24,734 Speaker 3: things that actually we really want to do, the things 192 00:10:24,734 --> 00:10:27,534 Speaker 3: that align with our values and that are important to 193 00:10:27,614 --> 00:10:30,854 Speaker 3: us in our life. So for everything we say yes to, 194 00:10:31,254 --> 00:10:34,694 Speaker 3: we essentially sacrifice something else. We only have so much 195 00:10:34,814 --> 00:10:37,454 Speaker 3: time in the day and so much kind of energy 196 00:10:37,614 --> 00:10:40,374 Speaker 3: that we have to work with through the week. So 197 00:10:40,414 --> 00:10:43,614 Speaker 3: by saying yes to certain things, we're also saying no 198 00:10:43,814 --> 00:10:45,854 Speaker 3: to others. And the things we say no to might 199 00:10:45,894 --> 00:10:47,574 Speaker 3: actually be quite important to us. 200 00:10:48,294 --> 00:10:49,934 Speaker 1: And I think it's really great that you're touching on 201 00:10:50,054 --> 00:10:52,334 Speaker 1: values again, because I know we spoke about that last 202 00:10:52,374 --> 00:10:55,854 Speaker 1: week and the importance of values and how it's needed 203 00:10:55,894 --> 00:10:58,694 Speaker 1: in decision making, but also how it's really relevant in 204 00:10:58,734 --> 00:11:02,414 Speaker 1: relationships as well, and how we communicate absolutely. 205 00:11:02,494 --> 00:11:06,534 Speaker 3: And the other downside of saying yes too often to 206 00:11:06,654 --> 00:11:09,254 Speaker 3: things that maybe we don't really want to or don't 207 00:11:09,254 --> 00:11:13,694 Speaker 3: feel inclined to, is that over time, we can inadvertently 208 00:11:13,774 --> 00:11:17,214 Speaker 3: send ourselves a message that our needs are not important, 209 00:11:17,414 --> 00:11:21,454 Speaker 3: that my needs are not valuable or as important as others. 210 00:11:22,134 --> 00:11:25,414 Speaker 3: And it's actually a way in which I somehow lose 211 00:11:25,534 --> 00:11:28,894 Speaker 3: respect for myself. If I'm not able to communicate to 212 00:11:28,934 --> 00:11:32,454 Speaker 3: someone else the know or communicate to someone else what's 213 00:11:32,494 --> 00:11:35,174 Speaker 3: important to me and what I need time for, I'm 214 00:11:35,214 --> 00:11:37,334 Speaker 3: actually disrespecting myself in the process. 215 00:11:37,734 --> 00:11:40,054 Speaker 1: It also kind of feels like self betrayal too. 216 00:11:40,214 --> 00:11:43,854 Speaker 3: Hmmm. Yes, the idea of self betrayal is a really 217 00:11:43,934 --> 00:11:45,814 Speaker 3: big one, and I think a really important one for 218 00:11:45,934 --> 00:11:49,814 Speaker 3: us to unpack, because it really is this notion that 219 00:11:50,094 --> 00:11:54,254 Speaker 3: we don't give ourselves the time and the respect to 220 00:11:54,534 --> 00:11:58,374 Speaker 3: fully explore what's important to us and communicate that to others, right, 221 00:11:58,694 --> 00:12:01,974 Speaker 3: because there's something to be said for we need to 222 00:12:02,174 --> 00:12:05,694 Speaker 3: show and teach others how we want to be treated. 223 00:12:06,014 --> 00:12:08,174 Speaker 3: So if we show up in a relationship where we're 224 00:12:08,174 --> 00:12:12,494 Speaker 3: constantly saying yes to everything, unless we actually tell that 225 00:12:12,534 --> 00:12:16,774 Speaker 3: person no, sometimes they're not going to know that we're 226 00:12:16,814 --> 00:12:19,374 Speaker 3: saying yes but meaning no, right, So they're just going 227 00:12:19,454 --> 00:12:22,494 Speaker 3: to continue treating us and acting in the way that 228 00:12:22,534 --> 00:12:25,174 Speaker 3: they are in the relationship because they don't know any different. 229 00:12:25,534 --> 00:12:27,854 Speaker 3: There really is an onus on us to be able 230 00:12:27,894 --> 00:12:31,214 Speaker 3: to communicate with others how we want to be treated, 231 00:12:31,654 --> 00:12:35,414 Speaker 3: how we want to fit in terms of a dynamic 232 00:12:35,534 --> 00:12:37,774 Speaker 3: in a relationship, and what we want from others. 233 00:12:38,934 --> 00:12:41,694 Speaker 1: And it kind of feels like with like the flip 234 00:12:41,734 --> 00:12:45,654 Speaker 1: side of self betrayal is taking itsself responsibility, Like it 235 00:12:45,734 --> 00:12:47,454 Speaker 1: is our responsibility at the end of the day to 236 00:12:47,454 --> 00:12:50,294 Speaker 1: be able to communicate that. And I'm interested too, because 237 00:12:50,294 --> 00:12:52,774 Speaker 1: I know, Rebecca, you know that's a mother daughter dynamic. 238 00:12:52,974 --> 00:12:56,894 Speaker 1: Like have you seen other kinds of relationships where these 239 00:12:57,294 --> 00:12:58,534 Speaker 1: kind of behaviors are playing out? 240 00:12:58,974 --> 00:13:01,574 Speaker 3: Absolutely, So I use the mother daughter dynamic as a 241 00:13:01,814 --> 00:13:04,094 Speaker 3: as a common one, but we see it play out 242 00:13:04,454 --> 00:13:06,854 Speaker 3: amongst friends. You know, we might have a friend who's 243 00:13:06,894 --> 00:13:09,934 Speaker 3: constantly asking something from us. Maybe it feel a bit 244 00:13:09,974 --> 00:13:12,614 Speaker 3: like a one way friendship where the one who's constantly 245 00:13:12,654 --> 00:13:15,294 Speaker 3: trying to reach out and organize things with them or 246 00:13:15,294 --> 00:13:18,534 Speaker 3: they're constantly asking us for things. We see this in friendships, 247 00:13:18,814 --> 00:13:21,774 Speaker 3: we see it in sibling dynamics, we see it in 248 00:13:21,894 --> 00:13:25,254 Speaker 3: romantic relationships. It can really play out in any kind 249 00:13:25,294 --> 00:13:28,734 Speaker 3: of relationship where there's some degree of intimacy, and when 250 00:13:28,774 --> 00:13:33,334 Speaker 3: I say intimacy, I mean emotional intimacy. Self sacrificing is 251 00:13:33,374 --> 00:13:36,494 Speaker 3: also a really important part of this conversation because we 252 00:13:36,614 --> 00:13:41,054 Speaker 3: might find ourselves in situations where we genuinely feel like 253 00:13:41,214 --> 00:13:44,494 Speaker 3: other people's needs are more important than ours. This is 254 00:13:44,534 --> 00:13:46,934 Speaker 3: what self sacrificing comes down to, This idea that I 255 00:13:46,974 --> 00:13:49,854 Speaker 3: need to give and give to others in order to 256 00:13:49,934 --> 00:13:52,254 Speaker 3: feel like I'm a good person. And if I don't 257 00:13:52,294 --> 00:13:54,774 Speaker 3: do that, then I feel really bad and guilty about 258 00:13:54,814 --> 00:13:56,214 Speaker 3: who I am in relationships. 259 00:13:56,654 --> 00:13:59,614 Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I can definitely speak to self sacrifice, and 260 00:13:59,694 --> 00:14:02,294 Speaker 1: I can just get out my scroll of all the 261 00:14:02,334 --> 00:14:04,534 Speaker 1: times I've done it, and I definitely know that this 262 00:14:04,614 --> 00:14:06,854 Speaker 1: is so common among so many women, and I know 263 00:14:07,014 --> 00:14:10,054 Speaker 1: for me. I think for me, I'm naturally someone that 264 00:14:10,534 --> 00:14:12,934 Speaker 1: does want to put my needs in the backseat and 265 00:14:13,134 --> 00:14:15,254 Speaker 1: be of service to, you know, the people that I 266 00:14:15,294 --> 00:14:18,054 Speaker 1: love most. And I remember recently I was going through 267 00:14:18,094 --> 00:14:20,654 Speaker 1: a really hard time emotionally and I just had to 268 00:14:20,694 --> 00:14:22,974 Speaker 1: try and take care of myself. But I remember getting 269 00:14:22,974 --> 00:14:25,014 Speaker 1: a miscall from one of my good friends who I 270 00:14:25,054 --> 00:14:27,894 Speaker 1: know is really struggling as well. And it was this 271 00:14:27,974 --> 00:14:30,774 Speaker 1: moment because I had a friend of mine who was 272 00:14:30,814 --> 00:14:33,894 Speaker 1: really honest with me recently. She said, Shany, you need 273 00:14:33,934 --> 00:14:38,734 Speaker 1: to actually put yourself first and not keep sacrificing yourself. 274 00:14:39,094 --> 00:14:41,134 Speaker 1: And that was hard to hear. But also I really 275 00:14:41,214 --> 00:14:43,574 Speaker 1: trust her wisdom. So I just remember in that moment 276 00:14:43,614 --> 00:14:46,094 Speaker 1: when I saw that misscall from a friend, I just 277 00:14:46,134 --> 00:14:48,214 Speaker 1: sent her a message and I just said, hey, look 278 00:14:48,254 --> 00:14:51,414 Speaker 1: I can't chat right now. I'm really in it. Maybe 279 00:14:51,414 --> 00:14:53,814 Speaker 1: just send me a voice message for now and I'll 280 00:14:53,814 --> 00:14:56,494 Speaker 1: give you a call back later. And that was really hard, 281 00:14:56,614 --> 00:14:59,734 Speaker 1: because it is it is a skill, you know, especially 282 00:14:59,774 --> 00:15:02,894 Speaker 1: when you've been so programmed to go the other way. 283 00:15:03,454 --> 00:15:04,254 Speaker 1: It takes time. 284 00:15:04,614 --> 00:15:06,534 Speaker 3: But I want to pick up on something you said. Yeah, 285 00:15:06,534 --> 00:15:10,614 Speaker 3: because you made this comment about putting yourself first, right, 286 00:15:10,774 --> 00:15:12,614 Speaker 3: and we hear this all the time. We've got to 287 00:15:12,614 --> 00:15:14,774 Speaker 3: put ourselves first, you know, don't just put other people's 288 00:15:14,774 --> 00:15:17,974 Speaker 3: needs first, put yourself first, And I almost want to 289 00:15:18,014 --> 00:15:20,094 Speaker 3: reframe that. And I think your example is a great one, 290 00:15:20,174 --> 00:15:23,014 Speaker 3: because did you put yourself first or did you put 291 00:15:23,054 --> 00:15:25,774 Speaker 3: yourself as equal to the other person? Like, from what 292 00:15:25,854 --> 00:15:29,734 Speaker 3: I hear you're describing, you respected yourself and what you needed, 293 00:15:29,934 --> 00:15:32,614 Speaker 3: and you respected what the other person was wanting from you, 294 00:15:32,654 --> 00:15:34,414 Speaker 3: what your friend was wanting, which was to have some 295 00:15:34,574 --> 00:15:38,374 Speaker 3: degree of communication and connection. So I don't know that 296 00:15:38,414 --> 00:15:41,134 Speaker 3: you like necessarily put yourself first, And I feel like 297 00:15:41,174 --> 00:15:43,014 Speaker 3: people can rebel against that. It feels like a bit 298 00:15:43,014 --> 00:15:45,414 Speaker 3: of a selfish thing to do, but we can certainly 299 00:15:45,414 --> 00:15:46,614 Speaker 3: put ourselves as equal. 300 00:15:47,094 --> 00:15:49,974 Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually never heard it like that before. Now 301 00:15:49,974 --> 00:15:51,654 Speaker 1: that you've said it, I'm like, oh, that's going to 302 00:15:51,694 --> 00:15:53,774 Speaker 1: stick with me because it is a bit of a 303 00:15:53,814 --> 00:15:56,414 Speaker 1: reframe there. And also it's a bit like when you're 304 00:15:56,454 --> 00:15:58,174 Speaker 1: on the aeroplane. It talks about you can put your 305 00:15:58,174 --> 00:16:00,294 Speaker 1: oxygen mask on first. We hear it all the time, 306 00:16:00,894 --> 00:16:03,254 Speaker 1: put your own oxygen mask before you put someone else's. 307 00:16:03,294 --> 00:16:05,734 Speaker 1: But also what you're communicating is, hey, I need to 308 00:16:06,414 --> 00:16:08,214 Speaker 1: have this face for me so then I can be 309 00:16:08,294 --> 00:16:10,214 Speaker 1: better and show up in the world and be a 310 00:16:10,254 --> 00:16:15,294 Speaker 1: better friend to you. After the shortbreak, doctor Anastasia is 311 00:16:15,294 --> 00:16:17,734 Speaker 1: going to teach you exactly how does they know to 312 00:16:17,814 --> 00:16:26,294 Speaker 1: loved ones in a healthy way? Stay with us, atas Asia, 313 00:16:26,334 --> 00:16:29,574 Speaker 1: how did you teach Rebecca how to reset that dynamic 314 00:16:29,654 --> 00:16:32,334 Speaker 1: with her mom? And how do we learn how to 315 00:16:32,374 --> 00:16:35,014 Speaker 1: do this with the relationships in our life without burning 316 00:16:35,014 --> 00:16:35,654 Speaker 1: any bridges. 317 00:16:36,014 --> 00:16:38,734 Speaker 3: The first thing I taught Rebecca, and the first thing 318 00:16:38,734 --> 00:16:40,774 Speaker 3: I would recommend to all our listeners who want to 319 00:16:40,774 --> 00:16:44,854 Speaker 3: set some boundaries is learn how to not give an 320 00:16:44,894 --> 00:16:49,254 Speaker 3: answer in the moment. So when someone makes a request 321 00:16:49,334 --> 00:16:52,614 Speaker 3: from us, it's a really important skill for us to 322 00:16:52,654 --> 00:16:54,854 Speaker 3: be able to kind of say I need to get 323 00:16:54,854 --> 00:16:57,014 Speaker 3: back to you, or I can't give you an answer 324 00:16:57,094 --> 00:16:59,374 Speaker 3: right now. And in the case of Rebecca, she often 325 00:16:59,414 --> 00:17:02,574 Speaker 3: felt a lot of pressure and obligations from her mom, 326 00:17:02,734 --> 00:17:05,294 Speaker 3: so she really did want to maintain that relationship. It 327 00:17:05,374 --> 00:17:07,934 Speaker 3: was really important for her to have a close relationship 328 00:17:08,214 --> 00:17:11,214 Speaker 3: with her mom. She felt that pressure in the moment 329 00:17:11,294 --> 00:17:13,894 Speaker 3: to just sort of say, yes, Okay, I'll be at 330 00:17:13,894 --> 00:17:16,174 Speaker 3: that event, I'll be at the family lunch, I'll take 331 00:17:16,174 --> 00:17:17,814 Speaker 3: you to the shops on the weekend. You know, yes, 332 00:17:17,894 --> 00:17:20,454 Speaker 3: I'll do all these things. So The first thing we 333 00:17:20,534 --> 00:17:25,174 Speaker 3: actually practiced was how to say, I'll have to check. 334 00:17:24,974 --> 00:17:28,094 Speaker 1: And get back to you, okay, I need you to 335 00:17:28,094 --> 00:17:30,654 Speaker 1: give us a script. How do we exactly say no. 336 00:17:31,734 --> 00:17:35,134 Speaker 3: Yes okay? So first up, when we get the request, 337 00:17:35,694 --> 00:17:37,454 Speaker 3: we want to try and say I'll have to get 338 00:17:37,494 --> 00:17:41,254 Speaker 3: back to you right. And so this might sound something like, firstly, 339 00:17:41,534 --> 00:17:44,774 Speaker 3: nurturing the relationship. Always nurture the relationship. If it's an 340 00:17:44,774 --> 00:17:48,734 Speaker 3: important one to you, let the person know that. So 341 00:17:49,054 --> 00:17:51,894 Speaker 3: if Rebecca's mum is asking her to have lunch on 342 00:17:51,934 --> 00:17:55,014 Speaker 3: the weekend with you know, mum and the extended family, 343 00:17:55,134 --> 00:17:57,094 Speaker 3: and Rebecca's really not quite sure if she wants to 344 00:17:57,134 --> 00:18:00,494 Speaker 3: do that, when Mum calls and asks, Rebecca could say 345 00:18:00,534 --> 00:18:03,614 Speaker 3: something like, look, Mom, this sounds really lovely. I love 346 00:18:03,654 --> 00:18:06,894 Speaker 3: spending time with the family. I'm just not sure if 347 00:18:06,974 --> 00:18:08,534 Speaker 3: right now I'm going to be able to commit to 348 00:18:08,574 --> 00:18:10,654 Speaker 3: that for this weekend end. I'm going to need to 349 00:18:10,694 --> 00:18:12,214 Speaker 3: just check a few things and get back to you. 350 00:18:12,534 --> 00:18:15,534 Speaker 3: But thanks for asking, and I'll let you know right. So, 351 00:18:15,814 --> 00:18:17,854 Speaker 3: I want to step away from this idea of us 352 00:18:17,854 --> 00:18:20,014 Speaker 3: being like it's a no, like it's a hard no 353 00:18:20,214 --> 00:18:22,334 Speaker 3: to you know, no is a complete sentence yes, no 354 00:18:22,574 --> 00:18:26,094 Speaker 3: is a complete sentence, but it can come across more 355 00:18:26,094 --> 00:18:28,814 Speaker 3: beneficial to the relationship if we can sort of pad 356 00:18:28,854 --> 00:18:33,214 Speaker 3: that with nurturing the relationship. So first delay giving a response, 357 00:18:34,134 --> 00:18:37,614 Speaker 3: then I would recommend that, you know, at some point 358 00:18:37,654 --> 00:18:40,454 Speaker 3: Rebecca gives Mam a call back or text her back 359 00:18:40,494 --> 00:18:45,094 Speaker 3: in some way, again nurture the relationship. Hey, mom, I 360 00:18:45,134 --> 00:18:48,174 Speaker 3: know you asked me to join you guys for lunch 361 00:18:48,214 --> 00:18:49,974 Speaker 3: on the weekend, and it sounds like you're going to 362 00:18:50,014 --> 00:18:52,454 Speaker 3: have a really lovely time. I would have liked to 363 00:18:52,454 --> 00:18:54,894 Speaker 3: be there, but unfortunately I'm just not going to be 364 00:18:54,894 --> 00:18:57,174 Speaker 3: able to make it this weekend. I really appreciate you 365 00:18:57,254 --> 00:19:00,574 Speaker 3: reaching out and you know, offering for me to come, 366 00:19:00,734 --> 00:19:02,494 Speaker 3: but it's just not going to work with my schedule. 367 00:19:02,494 --> 00:19:03,174 Speaker 3: I'm really sorry. 368 00:19:04,054 --> 00:19:07,374 Speaker 1: So it's really interesting because these are really great. But 369 00:19:07,534 --> 00:19:11,334 Speaker 1: I'm also thinking about in the first step, moms, if 370 00:19:11,334 --> 00:19:15,014 Speaker 1: you get backlash straight away and the like I mean 371 00:19:15,134 --> 00:19:18,614 Speaker 1: with Rebecca's mom, I'm just saying, hypothetically, why's of Rebecca's 372 00:19:18,614 --> 00:19:20,974 Speaker 1: mom felt really offended. She's like, how what do you 373 00:19:21,054 --> 00:19:23,974 Speaker 1: mean you need to go away? Like, because she's noticing 374 00:19:24,014 --> 00:19:26,054 Speaker 1: a difference in the dynamic, right, So it can bring 375 00:19:26,134 --> 00:19:28,414 Speaker 1: up a lot for other people, like how do you 376 00:19:28,494 --> 00:19:29,094 Speaker 1: handle that? 377 00:19:30,174 --> 00:19:33,694 Speaker 3: I talk about this notion or technique of being a 378 00:19:33,694 --> 00:19:36,454 Speaker 3: bit of a broken record, right, because these are the 379 00:19:36,494 --> 00:19:39,534 Speaker 3: instances where we end up saying yes when we actually 380 00:19:39,534 --> 00:19:41,854 Speaker 3: meant no, when we feel the pressure, when we feel 381 00:19:41,854 --> 00:19:44,374 Speaker 3: like someone's guilt tripping us to say yes to something 382 00:19:44,414 --> 00:19:46,774 Speaker 3: when we really don't want to. So I talk about 383 00:19:46,774 --> 00:19:49,134 Speaker 3: this idea of being a broken record, and we can 384 00:19:49,174 --> 00:19:53,494 Speaker 3: do this really nicely, but it's literally just repeating ourselves 385 00:19:53,534 --> 00:19:56,454 Speaker 3: again and again. So it might be something like, I 386 00:19:56,494 --> 00:19:59,494 Speaker 3: hear your mom, I know you really wanted me to come. Unfortunately, 387 00:19:59,494 --> 00:20:01,014 Speaker 3: I'm just not going to be able to make it. 388 00:20:01,454 --> 00:20:03,094 Speaker 3: I get it, Mom, I know you would have really 389 00:20:03,214 --> 00:20:05,334 Speaker 3: liked me there. Unfortunately it's just not going to happen 390 00:20:05,334 --> 00:20:08,134 Speaker 3: this weekend. Yeah mom, I know, but unfortunately I'm just 391 00:20:08,134 --> 00:20:09,774 Speaker 3: not going to be able to make it. So really, 392 00:20:09,934 --> 00:20:13,574 Speaker 3: just sticking to your guns and very kindly just repeating 393 00:20:13,614 --> 00:20:14,934 Speaker 3: the same thing over and over. 394 00:20:15,174 --> 00:20:17,734 Speaker 1: I really love that because the way that you're saying 395 00:20:17,814 --> 00:20:20,894 Speaker 1: it is kind of what you're saying around nurturing the relationship, 396 00:20:21,014 --> 00:20:25,054 Speaker 1: and you're validating Rebecca's bum's experience where she might feel hurt. 397 00:20:25,174 --> 00:20:27,334 Speaker 1: So it's like, how do you do both? Which I 398 00:20:27,374 --> 00:20:29,574 Speaker 1: really love? So tell us what the next step is? 399 00:20:29,734 --> 00:20:34,254 Speaker 3: Yes, okay, So the final step is the negotiation, right, 400 00:20:34,414 --> 00:20:37,414 Speaker 3: And this doesn't have to be the final step, right, No, 401 00:20:37,614 --> 00:20:39,654 Speaker 3: I can't come to lunch might be the final step. 402 00:20:40,014 --> 00:20:42,854 Speaker 3: But if the relationship is important to us and we 403 00:20:42,894 --> 00:20:44,454 Speaker 3: want to nurture it and we don't want to burn 404 00:20:44,494 --> 00:20:48,494 Speaker 3: those bridges, it might be for Rebecca or for the 405 00:20:48,534 --> 00:20:53,214 Speaker 3: person in Rebecca's shoes to think about what an alternative 406 00:20:53,294 --> 00:20:57,414 Speaker 3: might be that actually suits her needs. So maybe Rebecca 407 00:20:57,454 --> 00:20:59,854 Speaker 3: comes up with another option where she says, you know, look, 408 00:20:59,934 --> 00:21:02,254 Speaker 3: unfortunately I'm not going to make family lunch this weekend, 409 00:21:02,534 --> 00:21:04,254 Speaker 3: but I'd really love to see you one day through 410 00:21:04,254 --> 00:21:06,214 Speaker 3: the week for dinner. Is there a night that you're free, 411 00:21:06,294 --> 00:21:08,614 Speaker 3: I'll cook some lasagna and bring it over, you know, 412 00:21:08,734 --> 00:21:12,054 Speaker 3: So come up some alternatives to be able to negotiate 413 00:21:12,254 --> 00:21:15,254 Speaker 3: if our goal is nurturing that relationship. 414 00:21:16,294 --> 00:21:18,254 Speaker 1: So do you think a lot of this is influenced 415 00:21:18,254 --> 00:21:19,854 Speaker 1: by society or culture? 416 00:21:20,534 --> 00:21:26,494 Speaker 3: Absolutely, we definitely see differences depending on whether people have 417 00:21:26,654 --> 00:21:29,854 Speaker 3: grown up in a family dynamic or a culture that's 418 00:21:29,934 --> 00:21:34,734 Speaker 3: more sort of individualistic versus collectivists. So what we see 419 00:21:34,774 --> 00:21:38,254 Speaker 3: is that in those more individualistic societies and cultures, there 420 00:21:38,414 --> 00:21:42,494 Speaker 3: is more of a focus on being able to say 421 00:21:42,534 --> 00:21:45,254 Speaker 3: no and putting the boundaries in place, and less of 422 00:21:45,334 --> 00:21:49,494 Speaker 3: a focus on repair in relationships. What we see that 423 00:21:49,494 --> 00:21:53,094 Speaker 3: collectivist societies and cultures do really well is that they 424 00:21:53,174 --> 00:21:57,614 Speaker 3: focus on maintaining and repairing dynamics. The reality is that 425 00:21:57,654 --> 00:22:00,494 Speaker 3: we are always going to be faced in our life 426 00:22:00,774 --> 00:22:03,614 Speaker 3: with situations where we have to say no to people, 427 00:22:03,734 --> 00:22:08,174 Speaker 3: where ruptures occur in a relationship. It's normal and it's natural, 428 00:22:08,294 --> 00:22:10,774 Speaker 3: and part of what we need to learn is how 429 00:22:10,774 --> 00:22:12,654 Speaker 3: to be able to do that and become okay with it. 430 00:22:13,334 --> 00:22:16,014 Speaker 1: So a lot of this is getting comfortable with disappointing 431 00:22:16,054 --> 00:22:16,574 Speaker 1: other people. 432 00:22:16,654 --> 00:22:21,494 Speaker 3: Right. Absolutely, we're all unique people with different ways of 433 00:22:21,574 --> 00:22:24,054 Speaker 3: thinking and being in the world, and that means that 434 00:22:24,054 --> 00:22:26,614 Speaker 3: we're going to face conflict in life and we're going 435 00:22:26,654 --> 00:22:29,534 Speaker 3: to disappoint people sometimes. That's just a part of it. 436 00:22:29,854 --> 00:22:33,654 Speaker 3: And if we're not used to saying no or asserting 437 00:22:33,694 --> 00:22:36,734 Speaker 3: our needs with other people, it's probably going to feel 438 00:22:36,774 --> 00:22:40,814 Speaker 3: pretty uncomfortable to start with. It's a new different experience 439 00:22:40,854 --> 00:22:43,054 Speaker 3: for us, so we might actually find ourselves feeling a 440 00:22:43,094 --> 00:22:46,254 Speaker 3: little bit anxious to do it. And if that's the case, 441 00:22:46,294 --> 00:22:48,854 Speaker 3: then I advise listeners go back to episode one and 442 00:22:49,094 --> 00:22:51,494 Speaker 3: have a listen to how to deal with anxiety and 443 00:22:51,494 --> 00:22:53,534 Speaker 3: worry if it comes about guilt tripping. 444 00:22:53,854 --> 00:22:55,854 Speaker 1: So is that is that ab our thing? 445 00:22:56,254 --> 00:23:00,774 Speaker 3: Absolutely, we can definitely have the experience of other people 446 00:23:00,854 --> 00:23:03,654 Speaker 3: making us feel guilty. And what I want to highlight 447 00:23:03,694 --> 00:23:06,574 Speaker 3: here is there is a difference between us feeling guilt 448 00:23:07,134 --> 00:23:11,374 Speaker 3: and other people imposing guilt on us. Right, I'm going 449 00:23:11,454 --> 00:23:13,254 Speaker 3: to come back. You'll probably hear me say this time 450 00:23:13,294 --> 00:23:16,934 Speaker 3: and time again through our episodes that emotions serve a function, 451 00:23:17,054 --> 00:23:20,334 Speaker 3: they're important. So if I feel guilt, if I naturally 452 00:23:20,374 --> 00:23:24,174 Speaker 3: feel guilt, doesn't feel pleasant, but it's an important emotion 453 00:23:24,334 --> 00:23:27,294 Speaker 3: because it tells me that I've done something that goes 454 00:23:27,414 --> 00:23:31,094 Speaker 3: against my moral code and my moral compass. So guilt 455 00:23:31,134 --> 00:23:34,054 Speaker 3: gives us important information that we've done something that we 456 00:23:34,134 --> 00:23:36,534 Speaker 3: don't feel good about, so that we can not do 457 00:23:36,574 --> 00:23:38,694 Speaker 3: it again in the future and maybe try and make 458 00:23:38,774 --> 00:23:42,814 Speaker 3: some sort of repair and amend. That's very different to 459 00:23:43,934 --> 00:23:48,214 Speaker 3: us feeling guilty because someone else has said we should 460 00:23:48,694 --> 00:23:51,934 Speaker 3: or made it out as if we should be ashamed 461 00:23:51,974 --> 00:23:55,094 Speaker 3: of ourselves for the decision that we've made. So it's 462 00:23:55,214 --> 00:23:58,214 Speaker 3: really important in these situations for people to stop and 463 00:23:58,334 --> 00:24:02,374 Speaker 3: reflect on is this guilt my own or is it 464 00:24:02,374 --> 00:24:13,014 Speaker 3: guilt that someone else is putting on me? Bib bib bib. 465 00:24:13,294 --> 00:24:17,614 Speaker 3: I'm having a serious crisis. BRB having a crisis. 466 00:24:19,094 --> 00:24:23,054 Speaker 1: Guys, it's time for BRB having a crisis. This is 467 00:24:23,174 --> 00:24:27,454 Speaker 1: your opportunity, listeners to get Anastasia's advice and guidance on 468 00:24:27,494 --> 00:24:31,774 Speaker 1: your dilemma, challenge or big live question. Today we're hearing 469 00:24:31,814 --> 00:24:32,534 Speaker 1: from Ruby. 470 00:24:32,934 --> 00:24:35,894 Speaker 4: My partner's a slow riser and loves easing into the weekend. 471 00:24:36,374 --> 00:24:39,094 Speaker 4: I'm the opposite up early, ready to get things done, 472 00:24:39,254 --> 00:24:41,054 Speaker 4: and I get restless if the day feels like it's 473 00:24:41,054 --> 00:24:43,694 Speaker 4: slipping by. He always says, why do you have to 474 00:24:43,774 --> 00:24:46,014 Speaker 4: be in such a rush, But it's not about rushing, 475 00:24:46,094 --> 00:24:48,534 Speaker 4: it's just how I'm wired. On top of that, he 476 00:24:48,614 --> 00:24:52,134 Speaker 4: watches every football game all weekend. I'm not into it, 477 00:24:52,214 --> 00:24:54,974 Speaker 4: and sometimes it feels like I'm sidelined trying to fit 478 00:24:55,014 --> 00:24:57,854 Speaker 4: in my own plans. I want to support his interests, 479 00:24:57,934 --> 00:25:00,654 Speaker 4: but I also want space for my own. It's tough 480 00:25:00,694 --> 00:25:03,654 Speaker 4: finding a balance between spending time together but also feeling 481 00:25:03,694 --> 00:25:05,454 Speaker 4: fulfilled in myself on the weekends. 482 00:25:05,854 --> 00:25:08,174 Speaker 3: Oh Ruby, this is a tough one, but I think 483 00:25:08,214 --> 00:25:11,374 Speaker 3: you're not alone because I've heard a lot of people 484 00:25:11,454 --> 00:25:18,414 Speaker 3: talk about this idea of individual identity versus the relationship identity, 485 00:25:18,494 --> 00:25:20,974 Speaker 3: and how do I keep space for my own sense 486 00:25:21,014 --> 00:25:23,534 Speaker 3: of self and who I am in the world and 487 00:25:23,574 --> 00:25:30,414 Speaker 3: in the relationship while also building, developing, and nurturing the relationship, 488 00:25:30,454 --> 00:25:33,654 Speaker 3: which forms an identity of its own. What I would 489 00:25:33,734 --> 00:25:37,014 Speaker 3: encourage you to do is, maybe, as you can predict, 490 00:25:37,094 --> 00:25:40,534 Speaker 3: this involves having a conversation with your partner, but invite 491 00:25:40,654 --> 00:25:43,734 Speaker 3: him into the solution right when you talk to him, 492 00:25:44,254 --> 00:25:48,014 Speaker 3: share what your thoughts, feelings, and concerns are, and try 493 00:25:48,014 --> 00:25:51,894 Speaker 3: and do so using eye statements. I feel this. I 494 00:25:51,934 --> 00:25:57,214 Speaker 3: think that this tends to result in more open communication 495 00:25:57,454 --> 00:25:59,854 Speaker 3: and the other person doesn't feel as defensive if we 496 00:25:59,894 --> 00:26:05,134 Speaker 3: start statements with I. But what I also encourage you 497 00:26:05,174 --> 00:26:10,374 Speaker 3: to do is invite him into the solution right. Open 498 00:26:10,494 --> 00:26:13,734 Speaker 3: up the challenge that you're facing with him, and invite 499 00:26:13,854 --> 00:26:16,694 Speaker 3: him to help you find a solution. So this might 500 00:26:16,734 --> 00:26:20,374 Speaker 3: be something like saying, I really value our relationship and 501 00:26:20,574 --> 00:26:23,414 Speaker 3: I want us to both feel good in it. How 502 00:26:23,414 --> 00:26:26,134 Speaker 3: do you suggest we go about navigating this, so you're 503 00:26:26,134 --> 00:26:29,814 Speaker 3: bringing him in so it can be a collaborative approach, because, 504 00:26:29,854 --> 00:26:34,694 Speaker 3: as you've highlighted, that balance between individual identity and the 505 00:26:34,774 --> 00:26:38,174 Speaker 3: relationship can be a challenging one to get right. And 506 00:26:38,214 --> 00:26:40,854 Speaker 3: there's not one clear answer that's going to work every week. 507 00:26:40,894 --> 00:26:43,894 Speaker 3: It's probably going to be an ongoing conversation with an 508 00:26:43,894 --> 00:26:44,774 Speaker 3: ongoing solution. 509 00:26:50,574 --> 00:26:54,414 Speaker 1: Saying no is literally such a skill. Sounds so simple, 510 00:26:54,734 --> 00:26:57,534 Speaker 1: but really it's not an asagia. Can you give us 511 00:26:57,534 --> 00:26:59,174 Speaker 1: a recap of what we learned today? 512 00:26:59,854 --> 00:27:05,494 Speaker 3: Absolutely? First up, it's okay to say no. Second, we 513 00:27:05,534 --> 00:27:09,094 Speaker 3: can say no to other people while still maintaining kindness 514 00:27:09,134 --> 00:27:13,894 Speaker 3: and rest for the relationship. Third, if saying no feels 515 00:27:13,894 --> 00:27:16,974 Speaker 3: hard in the moment, try to opt for a not 516 00:27:17,174 --> 00:27:21,134 Speaker 3: right now or I have to get back to you. Lastly, 517 00:27:21,654 --> 00:27:24,894 Speaker 3: by saying no, we will have times where others are 518 00:27:24,934 --> 00:27:27,934 Speaker 3: disappointed or they feel let down. This is normal and 519 00:27:28,094 --> 00:27:31,414 Speaker 3: natural and a part of life. If you value the relationship, 520 00:27:31,814 --> 00:27:34,734 Speaker 3: think about what else you can do to contribute to 521 00:27:34,774 --> 00:27:38,494 Speaker 3: the relationship that still nurtures it while maintaining your boundary. 522 00:27:39,214 --> 00:27:42,774 Speaker 3: Next week, we're tackling a biggie. It's what I hear 523 00:27:42,814 --> 00:27:45,254 Speaker 3: about from so many people in my life, not just 524 00:27:45,334 --> 00:27:48,934 Speaker 3: my work. We're going to be discussing the quickest and 525 00:27:49,054 --> 00:27:52,574 Speaker 3: easiest way to get out of a life rush and 526 00:27:52,734 --> 00:27:55,454 Speaker 3: reset when we feel like everything sucks. 527 00:27:55,854 --> 00:27:58,294 Speaker 1: If you have any burning questions, there's a few ways 528 00:27:58,294 --> 00:28:00,494 Speaker 1: to get in touch with us links in the show notes. 529 00:28:00,774 --> 00:28:04,574 Speaker 3: And remember, while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't 530 00:28:04,614 --> 00:28:07,454 Speaker 3: a diagnostic tool, and the advice and ideas we present 531 00:28:07,534 --> 00:28:12,414 Speaker 3: here should always take into account your personal history. The 532 00:28:12,494 --> 00:28:16,214 Speaker 3: executive producer of But Are You Happy is Niama Brown. 533 00:28:16,854 --> 00:28:18,894 Speaker 1: Tarlie Blackman is our senior producer. 534 00:28:19,694 --> 00:28:22,054 Speaker 3: Sound design and editing by Jacob Brown. 535 00:28:22,454 --> 00:28:24,294 Speaker 1: I'm a Shani Dante. 536 00:28:23,854 --> 00:28:27,654 Speaker 3: And I'm doctor Anaesthetia Hornus. The names and stories of 537 00:28:27,654 --> 00:28:31,654 Speaker 3: clients discussed have been changed for the purpose of maintaining anonymity. 538 00:28:32,214 --> 00:28:34,934 Speaker 3: If this conversation brought up any difficult feelings for you, 539 00:28:35,214 --> 00:28:37,974 Speaker 3: we have links for more resources in the show notes 540 00:28:38,374 --> 00:28:41,334 Speaker 3: around the topics we discussed today. You can also reach 541 00:28:41,374 --> 00:28:44,734 Speaker 3: out to organizations like Beyond Blue or Lifeline if you're 542 00:28:44,774 --> 00:28:46,214 Speaker 3: wanting more immediate support. 543 00:28:46,414 --> 00:28:47,334 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. 544 00:28:48,174 --> 00:28:50,854 Speaker 2: We hope you enjoyed this episode of But Are You Happy? 545 00:28:50,974 --> 00:28:53,334 Speaker 2: If you'd like to hear more from Ashani and Anastasia, 546 00:28:53,374 --> 00:28:55,814 Speaker 2: there's a link to follow along in our show notes, 547 00:28:56,374 --> 00:28:59,654 Speaker 2: and of course The Quickie is back to regular scheduled 548 00:28:59,654 --> 00:29:02,494 Speaker 2: programming in your feed at six am tomorrow