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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mother Mea podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters.

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Speaker 2: This podcast is recorded on. This episode deals with some

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Speaker 2: strong themes. Listener discretion is advised. The trick to mastering

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Speaker 2: manifestation is to speak what you seek until you see

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Speaker 2: what you've said, and when the universe not only listens

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Speaker 2: but delivers, it's truly a powerful thing. Just ask Jess.

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Speaker 1: I felt so valued, so seen, so respected. I felt

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Speaker 1: like my whole life had been building to this point

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Speaker 1: where someone was finally seeing how amazing I was and

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Speaker 1: I wasn't having to point it out to them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was on a pedestal, and I felt like I

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Speaker 1: deserve to be there.

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Speaker 2: But what's more powerful, the manifestation added, it's best, dear listener,

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Speaker 2: It's that little thing called a gut feeling when everything

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Speaker 2: seems perfect but your intuition suggests otherwise. Sometimes it's subtle,

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Speaker 2: but other times it raises an internal alarm that can't

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Speaker 2: be ignored.

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Speaker 1: There were just so many disturbing experiences, and as the

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Speaker 1: weeks rolled on, I became convinced that he was trying

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Speaker 1: to kill me. It felt very orchestrated that he was

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Speaker 1: in no way trying to make me feel good anymore.

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Speaker 1: I felt like everything was a trap and a setup.

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Speaker 2: I'm Georgia Love and this is everyone has an ex

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Speaker 2: Come with me as we dive into a collection of

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Speaker 2: unconventional stories about relationships past through the eyes and the

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Speaker 2: hearts of the very people who live them. Meet Jess

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Speaker 2: in twenty thirteen. She had the world at her feet,

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Speaker 2: a good job, a wonderful family, and great friendships. There

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Speaker 2: was only one thing missing.

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Speaker 1: I was thirty, the most successful and happy I had

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Speaker 1: ever been in my life, and absolutely ready to have

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Speaker 1: a baby. And it was a driving force. It had

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Speaker 1: me online on Tinder and every other dating app.

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Speaker 2: Jess knew what she wanted. Love sounded great, but she

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Speaker 2: didn't want to muck around with a dating and games

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Speaker 2: back and forth. She wanted to find her baby daddy,

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Speaker 2: and she wanted to find him now, and she made

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Speaker 2: no secret of that. When she matched with Matt.

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Speaker 1: Right from the get go, he stood out because he

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Speaker 1: was actually having proper conversation on Tinder. He was not

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Speaker 1: making any sexual references. It was very respectful. He was funny,

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Speaker 1: he was personable. He was asking me questions instead of

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Speaker 1: me having to ask him questions, he initiated the conversation

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Speaker 1: all the things that you want to happen on online

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Speaker 1: dating men don't do, and yeah, it was wonderful. We

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Speaker 1: hit it off very quickly in messages and established that

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Speaker 1: we had lots of things in common, including place where

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Speaker 1: we both had played volleyball. I played volleyball there at

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Speaker 1: the time and he had previously played volleyball there. And

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Speaker 1: actually it was him saying that he had played volleyball

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Speaker 1: at that particular venue that really reduced that anxiety that

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Speaker 1: you have about meeting someone because we had a shared location,

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Speaker 1: and on that basis, I agreed to meet him in

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Speaker 1: real life. So we arranged to meet. He set the

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Speaker 1: location and the time. It felt wonderful. I was so excited,

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Speaker 1: and he picked a place that he told a beautiful

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Speaker 1: little story about the name of the pub where we

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Speaker 1: were going to meet, and what a beautiful name it was,

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Speaker 1: because and he weaved it into a story that made

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Speaker 1: it seem like it was just a pitch are perfect

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Speaker 1: fairy tale place to meet. And I got to the

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Speaker 1: venue at the time, and I was in my car

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Speaker 1: and something felt wrong and I didn't know what felt wrong,

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Speaker 1: and so I rang my best friend and she said, no,

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Speaker 1: it's just that it's so right. All the stars are aligning,

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Speaker 1: and it's just never been this good. That's what this is.

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Speaker 1: Maybe this is it, this is the guy, this is

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Speaker 1: going to be the baby daddy. That's what you're probably feeling.

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Speaker 1: It's those nerves of it's so good you can't believe it.

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Speaker 1: And then I got into the pub. He wasn't there,

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Speaker 1: and I called. He didn't answer. I messaged, he didn't respond.

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Speaker 1: I felt humiliated and I was so overwhelmed, went back

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Speaker 1: to my car, burst into tears. I was almost ready

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Speaker 1: to leave when he sent a message and the message

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Speaker 1: said where are you? You're still coming. I'm feeling a

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Speaker 1: little bit overwhelmed that you hadn't arrived yet. Are you okay?

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Speaker 1: And I thought what? I was there and then he

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Speaker 1: said where are you? And I said, I'll win my

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Speaker 1: car and suggests, but did you go to? And he

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Speaker 1: named the venue and I'm like, no, because that's not

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Speaker 1: where you set the time or the place for us

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Speaker 1: to meet. And he said no, no, no, I set

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Speaker 1: the time for five o'clock at and he gave me

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Speaker 1: the name and I was like, no, you said it

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Speaker 1: for five point thirty and I gave him the name

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Speaker 1: the actually said, and I was like, I can go

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Speaker 1: back through the Tinder messages and find this, and he's like, no, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: we don't need to do that. It's okay, it's okay.

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Speaker 1: Just come to where, come here, come here.

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Speaker 2: Gosh, this was a mess. This is absolutely not the

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Speaker 2: fairy tale start to a relationship anyone wants. But she'd

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Speaker 2: got dressed up and she had been excited. What was

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Speaker 2: there to lose?

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Speaker 1: And then, of course I felt guilty because here I

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Speaker 1: was being petulant. I'd probably been the one that's stuffed

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Speaker 1: up the way that I'd interpreted the incorrect name to

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Speaker 1: this pub and the incorrect time, and I felt bad.

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Speaker 1: He'd been waiting there for half an hour, though he'd

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Speaker 1: set the time, and it was just a mess. And anyway,

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Speaker 1: when I got there, he'd already ordered me a drink,

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Speaker 1: which was really lovely. He'd ordered me a second drink

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Speaker 1: so that it was fresh. And then I felt extra

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Speaker 1: guilty because now there were two drinks lined up. He

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Speaker 1: was so eloquent, he was just so charming. He was

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Speaker 1: better looking than he had been in the Tinder photos,

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Speaker 1: and he just looked and behaved in such an immaculate

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Speaker 1: way that I felt foolish that I had doubted meeting

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Speaker 1: this guy. I was in a complete fog from the

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Speaker 1: moment I met him, and it felt so different to

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Speaker 1: every other first meeting. It was like being in a

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Speaker 1: fairy tale, and no matter what I said or did,

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Speaker 1: he found a way to compliment it, to make me

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Speaker 1: feel good about it, to elicit a response out of me.

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Speaker 1: Where I was being really vulnerable and honest and sincere

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Speaker 1: and sharing things that I'd never shared before, and it

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Speaker 1: just felt so honest. I was just feeling vulnerable, silly,

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Speaker 1: beside myself with excitement that this wonderful person had come

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Speaker 1: into my life. So it went from one drink to two,

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Speaker 1: and then he asked if I'd like to have dinner,

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Speaker 1: but he wasn't forward about it. He was like, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to be disrespectful. I understand and appreciate that

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Speaker 1: you might want to go home and debrief, and you've

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Speaker 1: had a long day, if you'd like to have dinner

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Speaker 1: Like it felt like there was no pressure whatsoever. And

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Speaker 1: I loved the dinner. I loved everything about it. It

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Speaker 1: was wonderful, It was respectful. I never felt like he

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Speaker 1: was then going to ask if you could come back

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Speaker 1: to my house. And there were several other dates that

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Speaker 1: followed that where it was this same magical experience and

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Speaker 1: no expectation of sex, no expectation of anything, and it

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Speaker 1: just felt like the kind of fairytale story that you

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Speaker 1: would tell at a wedding about how we meant and

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Speaker 1: how magical it was. And it was such a wonderful story.

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Speaker 1: Every day was wonderful fodder for taking into work and

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Speaker 1: telling telling other girls about you know, like it was

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Speaker 1: just so perfect. And he had all this very specific

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Speaker 1: knowledge about places and things, and such an incredible memory

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Speaker 1: for everything that I had said, even way back at

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Speaker 1: the tinder point, and I was so impressed by everything

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Speaker 1: he said.

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Speaker 2: Jess had met her match, so it wasn't long until

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Speaker 2: the other matches were no longer necessary.

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Speaker 1: The second date, he and it wasn't abrupt, it wasn't creepy,

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Speaker 1: like I must have said something like, oh, I can't

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Speaker 1: remember what you said about that thing. I have to

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Speaker 1: get Tinder out, and he was like, oh, I can't

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Speaker 1: check Tinder because I deleted the app. He seemed to

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Speaker 1: have completely stopped talking to every other girl on Tinder

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Speaker 1: the second that we had connected, whereas I was still

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Speaker 1: carrying on these conversations with other people. And then I

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Speaker 1: felt like, Oh, I'm such a bad person that I'm

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Speaker 1: considering these backup plans, and you're such a better person

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Speaker 1: than me. You've really dedicated yourself to me, whereas I

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Speaker 1: was struggling to remember, you know, what suburb he lived in,

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Speaker 1: and he could remember what suburb I grew up in.

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Speaker 2: So that was it. Really, there was no more Tinder,

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Speaker 2: no one else. There was really only one more step

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Speaker 2: to make this officially official.

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Speaker 1: We had had maybe three dates that weren't long ones.

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Speaker 1: There was the long one, the first one, then there

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Speaker 1: were a couple of little ones that just fit in

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Speaker 1: with my schedule around what I was doing in that week.

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Speaker 1: And it was the second week that we had known

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Speaker 1: each other, and his family had a Friday night dinner,

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Speaker 1: and he invited me to the family's Friday night dinner.

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Speaker 1: It didn't feel rushed, it didn't feel too full on,

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Speaker 1: It just felt perfect. And he sent me a screenshot

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Speaker 1: of of him asking his mom if he could bring

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Speaker 1: a girl who he had just started seeing because it

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Speaker 1: was just so magical, and would he mind? And I

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Speaker 1: just thought, what a respectful guy that he's asking his

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Speaker 1: mom if she's okay with it, And so he sent

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Speaker 1: me the screenshot of this conversation with his mum, which

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Speaker 1: then felt more abort and so I just felt honored

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Speaker 1: to have been invited to this family dinner. And when

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Speaker 1: I arrived at the family dinner, I was welcomed as

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Speaker 1: if I was just part of the family, and that

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Speaker 1: really solidified it for me, and I felt like this

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Speaker 1: was meant to be. It was all the stars had aligned.

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Speaker 1: I felt so valued, so seen, so respected. I felt

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Speaker 1: like my whole life had been building to this point

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Speaker 1: where someone was finally seeing how amazing I was and

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Speaker 1: I wasn't having to point it out to them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was on a pedestal well, and I felt like

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Speaker 1: I deserved to be there and validated. For all of

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Speaker 1: the men that I had not followed through with previously,

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Speaker 1: all of the breakups, it all felt like it was

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Speaker 1: coming to this moment, this magical experience, and like I

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Speaker 1: had won some sort of love lottery, and ah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's the best feeling, best feeling. It was never a conversation,

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Speaker 1: I think that he posted some photos perhaps of some dates,

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Speaker 1: and it just sort of naturally kind of evolved and

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Speaker 1: never needed to be sort of announced. And previously men

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Speaker 1: hadn't posted things on Facebook, but here he was taking

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Speaker 1: the lead and gently, respectfully posting photos of activities that

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Speaker 1: we were doing and making little comments like this is

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Speaker 1: when we changed our status updates because a decade ago now,

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Speaker 1: but Matt is on a magical date with the most

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Speaker 1: impressive woman, and without naming me or tagging me or

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Speaker 1: putting a photo of my face, I knew that he

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Speaker 1: was talking about me because there was a picture of

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Speaker 1: our feet over the water or something like that. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: just naturally gradually happened, and he had me meeting his

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Speaker 1: friends and family or within the first couple of weeks,

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Speaker 1: but organically, so the dinner was an actual invite, but

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Speaker 1: the other things that he organized, activities that were little that,

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Speaker 1: you know, like a couple of hours here because I

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Speaker 1: know you've got this important thing, and so I thought

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Speaker 1: maybe we could just have this coffee and then you know,

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Speaker 1: a friend would be walking by of his and I

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Speaker 1: would be introduced to that friend, and that friend would say,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I've heard so much about you, and

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Speaker 1: then I would feel so honored, and then that friend

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Speaker 1: would invite me to something that was happening that weekend,

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Speaker 1: and it was just overwhelming. It just consumed about three

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Speaker 1: weeks of my life, and I met every single person

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Speaker 1: in his inner circle within that first month.

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Speaker 2: And then come those three little words.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't during sex. And the reason I remember that

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Speaker 1: it wasn't during sex was because I definitely had a

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Speaker 1: thing and I'd written a blog about it, and he

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Speaker 1: had read all of my blogs, my public blog, and

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Speaker 1: I remember being impressed because it was at an organic, beautiful,

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Speaker 1: natural time that it would happen in Hollywood. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: at the same time though, as every other relationship, which

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Speaker 1: is after sex, and so for me, I remember thinking, well,

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Speaker 1: this must be real because it's not after sex, and

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Speaker 1: I had alluded to that and my desire for that

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Speaker 1: to one day happen in a blog. So it was

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Speaker 1: something I definitely thought about, but I don't recall where

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Speaker 1: it was. I just remember that the feeling I had

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Speaker 1: was it has to be real this time. I did

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Speaker 1: not immediately say it back, and I don't remember when

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Speaker 1: I did, because the whole first month felt like I

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Speaker 1: was being taken on a magic carpet. I didn't make

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Speaker 1: any choices. I didn't plan any of the dates. I

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Speaker 1: didn't plan anything. I was just going on this wonderful ride.

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Speaker 1: And I wasn't leading the conversations or leading anything, and

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Speaker 1: I was really enjoying that, so I was soaking it in.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember it being a particular moment because I

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Speaker 1: hadn't planned it or thought about it. It's not my

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Speaker 1: style to have sat it so early or to have

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Speaker 1: felt it. I was just responding, so at some point

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Speaker 1: I imagined that I just started saying it back because

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Speaker 1: I was overwhelmed, overwhelmed with happiness, not overwhelmed like, oh

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Speaker 1: this is terrible and I should say it, but it

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Speaker 1: just yeah, you just get swept up in emotions. Right

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Speaker 1: from the very first time we met, we had very intense,

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Speaker 1: very deep, serious conversations about you know, that I wanted

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Speaker 1: a child, and that at thirty, I wanted a child yesterday,

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Speaker 1: and I couldn't wait to sell my unit and buy

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Speaker 1: a white picket fence house. And I shared all of

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Speaker 1: those things because he was so interested in them, and

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Speaker 1: he agreed with every aspiration I had. I wanted children

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Speaker 1: he wanted children. I was hoping for two. He was

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Speaker 1: hoping for two. I wanted to live in the suburbs

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Speaker 1: and get out of the city. He wanted to live

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Speaker 1: in the suburbs. I was very attached to the beach.

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Speaker 1: He didn't mind where it was. It was all so

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Speaker 1: perfect and aligned, and there were never any you know,

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Speaker 1: bombshell conversations because everything I said he agreed with, and

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Speaker 1: if he expressed any kind of disagreement, it was in

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Speaker 1: such a positive Oh that's not how I was thinking.

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Speaker 1: But you know, that's a better idea. The one you

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Speaker 1: have is so much better than my own. Everything just

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Speaker 1: was aligned. I felt like I was on the verge

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Speaker 1: of getting everything I'd ever wanted, and that thirty years

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Speaker 1: of waiting was all coming to fruition. I was about

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Speaker 1: to be delivered my Prince Charming. It was only moments,

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Speaker 1: it felt like before he was going to whip out

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Speaker 1: a glass shoe and put it on my foot, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, bring it on. I was so ready

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Speaker 1: for it.

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Speaker 2: So it's safe to say it was a fairly intense

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Speaker 2: first few weeks together. Surely the whirlwind would soon slow

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Speaker 2: down and they could fall into that beautiful mundaneity of

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Speaker 2: normal relationships.

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Speaker 1: At the end of the first month, he organized a

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Speaker 1: dinner at a place that I had really wanted to

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Speaker 1: go to that i'd only ever been to in the day.

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Speaker 1: We'd been on a day date there, and I'd expressed

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Speaker 1: how much I enjoyed the really beautiful place, beautiful venue.

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Speaker 1: And he took me there on what was a month

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Speaker 1: since we had first met, and I hadn't actually because

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Speaker 1: it was such a whirlwind, hadn't counted the days, hadn't

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Speaker 1: counted the weeks. But when we got there, he told

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Speaker 1: me that it had been a month and that he

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Speaker 1: was marking the month by bringing me to this wonderful

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Speaker 1: place that on date two I had said that I

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Speaker 1: really wanted to go to. And he said something like,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't it be wonderful if we got married here? And

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Speaker 1: I said, yeah, yeah, that would be wonderful. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: I was hypothetically talking, and he said, well, exactly two

295
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Speaker 1: months from now will be your birthday, your thirty first birthday.

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Speaker 1: Why don't we get married here on your birthday? I

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Speaker 1: was like what. And it was the first time that

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Speaker 1: I felt like that's too fast, that's too fast. But

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Speaker 1: then he said, look, you know, let's let fate decide.

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Speaker 1: Let's see if the venue's even available. You know what,

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00:18:04,530 --> 00:18:07,250
Speaker 1: this is such a popular venue. Let's just see if

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00:18:07,290 --> 00:18:11,130
Speaker 1: the stars align and if they have a vacancy in

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00:18:11,210 --> 00:18:14,570
Speaker 1: any of the areas. And he called the waiter over

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Speaker 1: and he asked, could you just humor me, could you

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00:18:17,930 --> 00:18:21,010
Speaker 1: tell me if the wedding area here is available on

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Speaker 1: this particular date. And that person was like, oh, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll go check. And he went and checked and he said,

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Speaker 1: oh no, look that area isn't available, but we have

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00:18:28,010 --> 00:18:30,810
Speaker 1: a separate area that we could create, but you would

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Speaker 1: have to have under one hundred guests. And then my

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Speaker 1: boyfriend said, oh, I've never seen that, Jesse. Have you've

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Speaker 1: seen that? And I was like no, I didn't even

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Speaker 1: know that existed as a venue. And he said, could

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Speaker 1: we have a tour now? He had orchestrated this. It

315
00:18:46,770 --> 00:18:50,730
Speaker 1: was a surprise, and so this was a wonderful build

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00:18:50,810 --> 00:18:55,050
Speaker 1: up to me being taken off into this area and

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Speaker 1: then him saying, will you marry me? I've picked out

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Speaker 1: a ring, this is a venue. I just think we

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Speaker 1: should start our lives now. And I laughed and said no.

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Speaker 1: And because it was the first time that I had

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00:19:07,930 --> 00:19:10,850
Speaker 1: felt like no too soon alarm bells. It was my

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00:19:10,930 --> 00:19:14,250
Speaker 1: first alarm else. And then I just thought, you know,

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Speaker 1: I had this other voice in my head, Oh, yes,

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Speaker 1: you're a bit of a schmuck. You need to say

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00:19:18,890 --> 00:19:23,130
Speaker 1: yes to this. And I thought, me as a person,

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00:19:23,170 --> 00:19:27,690
Speaker 1: would usually be more reserved, be more cautious, be more rational,

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Speaker 1: say no to this. And I thought, that's why you're

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Speaker 1: thirty and until recently single, because you don't say yes

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Speaker 1: to things like this. And in this really quick moment

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Speaker 1: with this guy who's giving us a tour, and my

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Speaker 1: birthday is coming up, and now I really wanted a baby,

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Speaker 1: all of these things and I just thought, oh, just

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Speaker 1: do it. And so I said yes, and he picked

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00:19:49,530 --> 00:19:53,170
Speaker 1: me up and spun me around, and it was so exciting,

335
00:19:53,570 --> 00:19:56,570
Speaker 1: like a fairy tale. We just felt there was no

336
00:19:56,610 --> 00:19:58,970
Speaker 1: point in waiting. We knew what we wanted from life.

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Speaker 2: When it's meant to be, it's meant to be, and

338
00:20:02,810 --> 00:20:06,890
Speaker 2: everything just felt so right. I mean pretty much everything.

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Speaker 1: The next two months prior to my birthday and day

340
00:20:11,970 --> 00:20:14,570
Speaker 1: we got married. In the back of my head, I

341
00:20:14,610 --> 00:20:17,770
Speaker 1: still had that weird feeling, that gut feeling, that i'd

342
00:20:17,810 --> 00:20:20,370
Speaker 1: had right back on the first date, but I had

343
00:20:20,450 --> 00:20:27,610
Speaker 1: absolutely no reason to believe that that feeling was anything

344
00:20:27,730 --> 00:20:31,610
Speaker 1: except for me being overwhelmed with how wonderful it was.

345
00:20:31,650 --> 00:20:35,370
Speaker 1: But also now I had a solid reason for the feeling,

346
00:20:35,450 --> 00:20:39,890
Speaker 1: and that was that it was very soon. But everyone

347
00:20:40,490 --> 00:20:47,050
Speaker 1: in my life and his seemed so excited when we

348
00:20:47,210 --> 00:20:51,250
Speaker 1: told them, and I had really expected people to raise eyebrows,

349
00:20:51,730 --> 00:20:55,970
Speaker 1: but he was just so charismatic, and everyone knew how

350
00:20:56,050 --> 00:20:58,530
Speaker 1: much I wanted to have a baby and get married

351
00:20:58,570 --> 00:21:00,810
Speaker 1: and have the picket fence, and all of my friends

352
00:21:00,810 --> 00:21:03,930
Speaker 1: had done it already. Everyone knew, and so it just

353
00:21:03,970 --> 00:21:07,050
Speaker 1: seemed too good to be true, and what's the worst

354
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Speaker 1: that could happen? Was the sort of general response.

355
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Speaker 2: So it was time to plan a with it.

356
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Speaker 1: I love exciting things like that. I love planning trips

357
00:21:21,130 --> 00:21:26,010
Speaker 1: on a whim. I love adventures, and at the time,

358
00:21:26,970 --> 00:21:29,530
Speaker 1: because I was at the peak of my life, I

359
00:21:29,530 --> 00:21:32,290
Speaker 1: could afford to do it. There were no barriers to that,

360
00:21:33,050 --> 00:21:38,730
Speaker 1: and I felt like it was exciting and special and

361
00:21:38,770 --> 00:21:41,930
Speaker 1: made us unique that it wasn't this drawn out, long process,

362
00:21:42,290 --> 00:21:46,370
Speaker 1: and I wasn't much for pomp and ceremony, so I

363
00:21:46,530 --> 00:21:49,010
Speaker 1: liked that there wasn't a Hen's Night, and that there

364
00:21:49,090 --> 00:21:52,610
Speaker 1: wasn't a kitchen tea or any of that. That it

365
00:21:52,770 --> 00:21:56,610
Speaker 1: just was here's what's happening. We're getting married, come to

366
00:21:56,650 --> 00:22:00,090
Speaker 1: the wedding, and it was just one big celebration rather

367
00:22:00,130 --> 00:22:03,290
Speaker 1: than being a drawn out one. And I was aware

368
00:22:03,330 --> 00:22:05,530
Speaker 1: that also there were people who were going to come

369
00:22:05,570 --> 00:22:08,210
Speaker 1: to that wedding who'd never met him and who'd never

370
00:22:08,250 --> 00:22:10,530
Speaker 1: heard of him, and who their first mention of him

371
00:22:10,890 --> 00:22:14,330
Speaker 1: was in an invitation to the wedding. So I was

372
00:22:14,370 --> 00:22:18,530
Speaker 1: a bit embarrassed by that, and I was glad to

373
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Speaker 1: be done with the rigmarole that goes with you know,

374
00:22:20,770 --> 00:22:23,130
Speaker 1: you meet a guy and you follow this timeline and

375
00:22:23,570 --> 00:22:25,290
Speaker 1: you do this, you do that, you go on your

376
00:22:25,330 --> 00:22:28,570
Speaker 1: first trip together, and you see how you go, and yeah,

377
00:22:28,650 --> 00:22:31,330
Speaker 1: I just thought people do that all the time. And then,

378
00:22:31,330 --> 00:22:34,490
Speaker 1: of course, when you start telling people on Facebook and

379
00:22:34,610 --> 00:22:36,290
Speaker 1: just in your day to day life that you're going

380
00:22:36,330 --> 00:22:38,170
Speaker 1: to get married to someone you just met, all of

381
00:22:38,210 --> 00:22:41,370
Speaker 1: a sudden, everyone's telling you all their stories of people

382
00:22:41,370 --> 00:22:44,690
Speaker 1: they know that were successful and who got married after

383
00:22:44,730 --> 00:22:46,850
Speaker 1: knowing each other a week a month, And everyone starts

384
00:22:46,850 --> 00:22:49,170
Speaker 1: coming out of the woodworks with their stories and their

385
00:22:49,770 --> 00:22:52,810
Speaker 1: bailed opportunities. That time they didn't say yes, and that

386
00:22:52,890 --> 00:22:55,650
Speaker 1: guy was the one and they missed out. And there's

387
00:22:55,650 --> 00:22:59,970
Speaker 1: a lot of confirmation bias coming at you that reinforces

388
00:23:00,010 --> 00:23:03,530
Speaker 1: your decision because people want to be supportive. There were

389
00:23:03,810 --> 00:23:06,810
Speaker 1: lots of things that made him an imperfect person and

390
00:23:06,970 --> 00:23:12,370
Speaker 1: us an imperfect couple, but nothing that seemed like red flag.

391
00:23:13,090 --> 00:23:15,490
Speaker 1: One of the things was that him spelling things on

392
00:23:15,570 --> 00:23:19,730
Speaker 1: me never stopped. He was very clumsy, but he was

393
00:23:19,770 --> 00:23:23,210
Speaker 1: always so embarrassed by it, and so even though it

394
00:23:23,250 --> 00:23:27,370
Speaker 1: was annoying, it wasn't a deal breaker. You can't break

395
00:23:27,490 --> 00:23:30,290
Speaker 1: up with someone because they're clumsy. But he broke a

396
00:23:30,290 --> 00:23:34,810
Speaker 1: lot of my things in my house. He moved in

397
00:23:35,690 --> 00:23:38,090
Speaker 1: like immediately, it was never even a thing. He didn't

398
00:23:38,090 --> 00:23:44,050
Speaker 1: pay rent or anything, and I didn't like that. I'd

399
00:23:44,050 --> 00:23:46,450
Speaker 1: never had someone just move in and not pay rent.

400
00:23:46,490 --> 00:23:50,210
Speaker 1: But he just sort of was always there and just

401
00:23:50,210 --> 00:23:54,450
Speaker 1: seemed natural. He was watering my plants and feeding my cats,

402
00:23:54,610 --> 00:24:00,130
Speaker 1: and it just seemed natural. He was often late for things.

403
00:24:00,250 --> 00:24:02,730
Speaker 1: He would set the time for things or the place,

404
00:24:02,850 --> 00:24:05,210
Speaker 1: the venue, and then he was either not there or

405
00:24:05,250 --> 00:24:08,050
Speaker 1: he wouldn't show up. He had to work late, and

406
00:24:08,170 --> 00:24:12,130
Speaker 1: it was a pattern. And I remember tallying up in

407
00:24:12,210 --> 00:24:15,970
Speaker 1: my head the things that made him not the perfect guy,

408
00:24:16,050 --> 00:24:18,770
Speaker 1: and they were silly things like he's always late, he

409
00:24:18,850 --> 00:24:22,570
Speaker 1: works really long hours. But he always compensated for those

410
00:24:22,610 --> 00:24:25,370
Speaker 1: things by when he did show up. He was a

411
00:24:25,370 --> 00:24:28,930
Speaker 1: life of the party. He was always really apologetic. It

412
00:24:29,010 --> 00:24:31,810
Speaker 1: always seemed to be sincere. He would arrive with stories

413
00:24:31,890 --> 00:24:35,050
Speaker 1: about what had happened at work that made him a hero,

414
00:24:35,250 --> 00:24:37,690
Speaker 1: and that's why he was late, because he had a

415
00:24:37,730 --> 00:24:41,730
Speaker 1: heroic job, and everyone would be so enamored by his

416
00:24:41,850 --> 00:24:45,450
Speaker 1: incredible story that you couldn't hold a grudge. I definitely

417
00:24:45,450 --> 00:24:47,330
Speaker 1: didn't hold a grudge when he was late, because it

418
00:24:47,370 --> 00:24:52,010
Speaker 1: was that he was helping people and everything that he

419
00:24:52,050 --> 00:24:56,090
Speaker 1: did that was irritating or that I didn't like. He

420
00:24:56,130 --> 00:24:58,850
Speaker 1: was a terrible driver, and he didn't have a car,

421
00:24:59,290 --> 00:25:03,850
Speaker 1: so he drove my car terribly. All of these things

422
00:25:03,890 --> 00:25:06,690
Speaker 1: just seemed like petty things. Do you know. I thought, Wow,

423
00:25:06,770 --> 00:25:08,290
Speaker 1: if this is it, if this is all I have

424
00:25:08,370 --> 00:25:10,930
Speaker 1: to put up with. I mean, look at all my

425
00:25:11,050 --> 00:25:15,570
Speaker 1: exes been drunks and men who didn't earn money. There

426
00:25:15,570 --> 00:25:19,290
Speaker 1: had been violent men, men who didn't have good relationships

427
00:25:19,290 --> 00:25:22,290
Speaker 1: with their friends or family. This guy had at all.

428
00:25:22,730 --> 00:25:27,090
Speaker 1: He was just perfect, so that he was clumsy, late,

429
00:25:27,330 --> 00:25:30,330
Speaker 1: and often got the dates and times of things wrong.

430
00:25:30,810 --> 00:25:31,490
Speaker 1: Who cares?

431
00:25:32,250 --> 00:25:35,130
Speaker 2: Okay, dear listener, we know something's going to happen here

432
00:25:35,570 --> 00:25:38,810
Speaker 2: a great guy falling madly in love, planning a wedding

433
00:25:38,930 --> 00:25:41,690
Speaker 2: after a month that should be the most fun, happy

434
00:25:41,690 --> 00:25:45,530
Speaker 2: and exciting time of relationship. So you might not believe

435
00:25:45,610 --> 00:25:48,730
Speaker 2: me if I say one day things started going wrong.

436
00:25:49,170 --> 00:25:50,810
Speaker 2: So I'll let just tell you.

437
00:25:51,410 --> 00:25:57,090
Speaker 1: So everything sort of came undone the week of the wedding.

438
00:25:58,050 --> 00:26:02,090
Speaker 1: The week of the wedding, we were out at a

439
00:26:02,250 --> 00:26:04,810
Speaker 1: dinner with people who were going to be in the

440
00:26:04,810 --> 00:26:07,930
Speaker 1: bridal party. It was a really lovely dinner, except that

441
00:26:07,930 --> 00:26:11,570
Speaker 1: he'd been late arriving. And then he got a message,

442
00:26:11,730 --> 00:26:13,490
Speaker 1: and then he went and took a phone call and

443
00:26:13,530 --> 00:26:18,010
Speaker 1: it seemed to be quite serious, and he came back

444
00:26:18,090 --> 00:26:21,010
Speaker 1: and he ended the dinner early, which is not something

445
00:26:21,090 --> 00:26:22,890
Speaker 1: he'd done before, and he said, oh, you know, I've

446
00:26:22,890 --> 00:26:25,210
Speaker 1: got to deal with this important thing, and it made

447
00:26:25,250 --> 00:26:27,450
Speaker 1: it sound like it was an important work thing and

448
00:26:27,490 --> 00:26:29,130
Speaker 1: that we had to leave. And then he said we

449
00:26:29,170 --> 00:26:32,130
Speaker 1: had to go to his parents' house, and he wouldn't

450
00:26:32,170 --> 00:26:33,970
Speaker 1: tell me why we were going to his parents' house,

451
00:26:33,970 --> 00:26:37,290
Speaker 1: and the uncertainty it was unsettling. I wasn't quite sure,

452
00:26:37,530 --> 00:26:41,130
Speaker 1: and then I thought it's probably a surprise because he

453
00:26:41,290 --> 00:26:43,170
Speaker 1: was like that, and I thought, oh, I wonder if

454
00:26:43,210 --> 00:26:45,530
Speaker 1: we're having like an engagement party or something that I

455
00:26:45,610 --> 00:26:47,730
Speaker 1: don't know about, because it's weird that he would take

456
00:26:47,810 --> 00:26:52,810
Speaker 1: us away from our friends early and not tell me why.

457
00:26:53,170 --> 00:26:54,810
Speaker 1: So yeah, I kind of had it in my head

458
00:26:54,810 --> 00:26:57,010
Speaker 1: that we were going to something special. And then when

459
00:26:57,050 --> 00:26:59,170
Speaker 1: we got to his parents' house, it was that his

460
00:26:59,730 --> 00:27:04,450
Speaker 1: ex girlfriend had sent his parents a letter. She'd found

461
00:27:04,450 --> 00:27:07,090
Speaker 1: out that he was getting married, and she had sent

462
00:27:07,130 --> 00:27:12,290
Speaker 1: them a letter saying, please, can you let his potential

463
00:27:12,330 --> 00:27:18,290
Speaker 1: bride know that he's dangerous. When we got to the house,

464
00:27:18,330 --> 00:27:20,770
Speaker 1: his dad took him off to another room and his

465
00:27:20,930 --> 00:27:23,050
Speaker 1: mum fussed with me, but she wouldn't tell me what

466
00:27:23,090 --> 00:27:25,730
Speaker 1: the fuss was, and I realized that something bad had happened,

467
00:27:26,210 --> 00:27:29,730
Speaker 1: but I wasn't sure what bad thing had happened. And

468
00:27:30,090 --> 00:27:32,050
Speaker 1: then they came out they fussed about a bit more,

469
00:27:32,250 --> 00:27:35,450
Speaker 1: and I got quite upset and angry because no one

470
00:27:35,530 --> 00:27:38,450
Speaker 1: was telling me what was happening, and there was something

471
00:27:38,490 --> 00:27:41,570
Speaker 1: clearly wrong that no one was telling me. And I

472
00:27:41,610 --> 00:27:44,130
Speaker 1: got very angry, and I did some yelling and swearing

473
00:27:44,890 --> 00:27:47,290
Speaker 1: and said how uncomfortable I felt, and all of those

474
00:27:47,290 --> 00:27:50,490
Speaker 1: feelings in my stomach came back, and I said something

475
00:27:50,610 --> 00:27:53,490
Speaker 1: like I am not marrying you without knowing what this is.

476
00:27:53,850 --> 00:27:56,290
Speaker 1: It was the first time I'd really asserted myself, and

477
00:27:56,530 --> 00:27:58,850
Speaker 1: the first time I'd felt like things were really off

478
00:27:59,170 --> 00:28:05,170
Speaker 1: and something was wrong. I just went into overdrive, hyperreacting

479
00:28:05,210 --> 00:28:07,690
Speaker 1: to it. And so I think they felt like they

480
00:28:07,810 --> 00:28:09,730
Speaker 1: just had to tell me because there was no kind

481
00:28:09,730 --> 00:28:12,890
Speaker 1: of getting out of it, and they let me read

482
00:28:13,090 --> 00:28:16,210
Speaker 1: the letter, and it was just shocking, and it was

483
00:28:16,290 --> 00:28:18,730
Speaker 1: like it had been written about someone else. I couldn't

484
00:28:18,730 --> 00:28:23,890
Speaker 1: compute it. The letter said that he was violent, that

485
00:28:23,970 --> 00:28:27,210
Speaker 1: he was always yelling at her, that they'd been together

486
00:28:27,250 --> 00:28:30,970
Speaker 1: for several years, and that it was an abusive relationship,

487
00:28:31,610 --> 00:28:34,050
Speaker 1: and it listed all different kinds of abuse, and none

488
00:28:34,090 --> 00:28:37,290
Speaker 1: of it correlated to what I had experienced at all.

489
00:28:37,290 --> 00:28:39,050
Speaker 1: It was like I was written by someone else about

490
00:28:39,090 --> 00:28:44,850
Speaker 1: someone else. It was just it was bizarre because he

491
00:28:44,930 --> 00:28:47,770
Speaker 1: never yelled at may, he never even raised his voice.

492
00:28:47,810 --> 00:28:51,810
Speaker 1: He was so elegant, and he'd never done anything that

493
00:28:52,130 --> 00:28:55,770
Speaker 1: was overtly even close to abuse. He had posted things

494
00:28:55,770 --> 00:28:59,610
Speaker 1: on his social media that were really pro women and

495
00:28:59,890 --> 00:29:03,410
Speaker 1: anti abuse. He'd said all the things that you would

496
00:29:03,450 --> 00:29:07,210
Speaker 1: want a man to say that were very feminist and liberating.

497
00:29:08,410 --> 00:29:13,050
Speaker 1: He was really compassionate about his ex and said things like, look,

498
00:29:13,130 --> 00:29:15,650
Speaker 1: she's got a lot of mental health problems and I

499
00:29:15,690 --> 00:29:19,130
Speaker 1: didn't tell you about them because you know she's crazy,

500
00:29:19,970 --> 00:29:23,290
Speaker 1: And he said it in such a sympathetic way, and

501
00:29:23,330 --> 00:29:27,490
Speaker 1: he gave a few examples, and it was just so sincere.

502
00:29:27,690 --> 00:29:30,690
Speaker 1: He never got mad, he was never rattled by it.

503
00:29:31,250 --> 00:29:38,130
Speaker 1: He genuinely seemed to be sad for her. He said

504
00:29:38,130 --> 00:29:40,690
Speaker 1: that he would call her and check that she was okay,

505
00:29:40,810 --> 00:29:43,090
Speaker 1: and he expressed that her family had a lot of

506
00:29:43,130 --> 00:29:45,210
Speaker 1: mental health issues and she had a lot going on

507
00:29:45,290 --> 00:29:47,770
Speaker 1: and that had been why they'd broken up. And he

508
00:29:47,930 --> 00:29:51,650
Speaker 1: revealed things about their relationship that she would have been

509
00:29:51,810 --> 00:29:54,290
Speaker 1: hurt by because he didn't want to be with her

510
00:29:54,330 --> 00:29:56,370
Speaker 1: in the end because he couldn't care for her the

511
00:29:56,410 --> 00:29:59,770
Speaker 1: way she needed. There didn't seem to be anything jarring,

512
00:30:00,170 --> 00:30:03,410
Speaker 1: but it completely unraveled things. And then for the rest

513
00:30:03,410 --> 00:30:06,810
Speaker 1: of that week, leading up to the wedding. It just

514
00:30:07,170 --> 00:30:12,130
Speaker 1: created such cognitive dissonance in me. All of a sudden,

515
00:30:12,170 --> 00:30:14,490
Speaker 1: I was thinking, no, none of this is right. Everything

516
00:30:14,530 --> 00:30:17,050
Speaker 1: is wrong. He's not paying a rent. He said that

517
00:30:17,090 --> 00:30:19,050
Speaker 1: the reason he wasn't paying rent was because he was

518
00:30:19,090 --> 00:30:22,290
Speaker 1: so impressed by my management of the house and my

519
00:30:22,330 --> 00:30:25,850
Speaker 1: mortgage and how incredible I was, and that he wouldn't

520
00:30:25,850 --> 00:30:30,530
Speaker 1: want to undermine my financial integrity. And he really elevated

521
00:30:30,570 --> 00:30:33,490
Speaker 1: me so that anytime that he had been saying something,

522
00:30:33,690 --> 00:30:36,170
Speaker 1: it was almost a backhanded compliment that would get him

523
00:30:36,210 --> 00:30:39,050
Speaker 1: out of doing something or excuse him from things. And

524
00:30:39,130 --> 00:30:41,610
Speaker 1: the whole week it was just a mess. I didn't

525
00:30:41,610 --> 00:30:43,770
Speaker 1: go to work. I'd planned to go to work because

526
00:30:44,010 --> 00:30:47,050
Speaker 1: the wedding was planned and I had a job, but

527
00:30:47,170 --> 00:30:49,290
Speaker 1: I didn't go to work because I couldn't function. I

528
00:30:49,370 --> 00:30:51,930
Speaker 1: was all of a sudden just replaying every kind of

529
00:30:51,930 --> 00:30:55,850
Speaker 1: thing right back to that first Tinder conversation, and it

530
00:30:55,930 --> 00:31:03,930
Speaker 1: was all just unraveling in my head. I felt terrified,

531
00:31:04,690 --> 00:31:07,410
Speaker 1: like when you're watching a horror movie and you know

532
00:31:07,490 --> 00:31:09,490
Speaker 1: that something bad is coming, but you don't know what

533
00:31:09,530 --> 00:31:13,050
Speaker 1: it is. I felt horror and terror, and then I

534
00:31:13,090 --> 00:31:16,570
Speaker 1: felt crazy because I didn't know why I was feeling

535
00:31:16,650 --> 00:31:18,810
Speaker 1: horror and terror, And when I would try to explain

536
00:31:18,850 --> 00:31:21,290
Speaker 1: it to him and he would so patiently listen to me,

537
00:31:22,090 --> 00:31:27,210
Speaker 1: I would think, you're losing your mind, Jess, because when

538
00:31:27,250 --> 00:31:29,650
Speaker 1: I would try and explain to him why I was

539
00:31:29,690 --> 00:31:32,210
Speaker 1: feeling so overwhelmed, he was able to come back with

540
00:31:32,290 --> 00:31:36,090
Speaker 1: quips to explain things in such a rational, sensible way.

541
00:31:36,450 --> 00:31:40,170
Speaker 1: He was so patient, he was so thoughtful. He listened

542
00:31:40,210 --> 00:31:42,890
Speaker 1: to all of my concerns and comforted me. And I

543
00:31:43,010 --> 00:31:47,290
Speaker 1: just felt stupid, because when you explain things and you're like, well,

544
00:31:47,530 --> 00:31:51,130
Speaker 1: you're always late, it just feels like such a silly

545
00:31:51,170 --> 00:31:52,890
Speaker 1: thing to be upset about. And then when I tried

546
00:31:52,930 --> 00:31:55,450
Speaker 1: to explain it to my best friend, I was like, right,

547
00:31:55,570 --> 00:31:57,770
Speaker 1: so I've been putting the pieces together, and what I'm

548
00:31:57,850 --> 00:32:01,410
Speaker 1: thinking is that maybe he was late because he was

549
00:32:01,610 --> 00:32:05,090
Speaker 1: still seeing his ex. Maybe she is bitter and angry,

550
00:32:05,570 --> 00:32:08,850
Speaker 1: and she wrote the letter to try and break us up.

551
00:32:09,130 --> 00:32:13,210
Speaker 1: And I was creating this completely fictional narrative about what

552
00:32:13,290 --> 00:32:14,770
Speaker 1: I thought. I was trying to fill in the gaps

553
00:32:14,810 --> 00:32:17,050
Speaker 1: because all of a sudden, I could see all the gaps.

554
00:32:17,650 --> 00:32:20,970
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe everything had turned around so quickly all

555
00:32:21,010 --> 00:32:21,410
Speaker 1: at once.

556
00:32:21,530 --> 00:32:24,690
Speaker 2: Jess felt completely in over her head. Did she even

557
00:32:24,810 --> 00:32:27,490
Speaker 2: know this guy she was marrying? Who she was marrying?

558
00:32:27,770 --> 00:32:31,770
Speaker 1: This week, I felt very guilty because I had arranged

559
00:32:31,810 --> 00:32:34,730
Speaker 1: this wedding, I'd invited all these people, and I didn't

560
00:32:34,730 --> 00:32:36,970
Speaker 1: want to go through with it. I definitely didn't want

561
00:32:36,970 --> 00:32:38,290
Speaker 1: to go through with it, and I didn't know how

562
00:32:38,290 --> 00:32:40,810
Speaker 1: to cancel it, because if I was canceling it, I

563
00:32:40,890 --> 00:32:45,490
Speaker 1: was saying, I'm canceling it because Matt is clumsy and

564
00:32:46,370 --> 00:32:49,690
Speaker 1: he often forgets to feed my cats and says that

565
00:32:49,730 --> 00:32:53,530
Speaker 1: he fed them like it just but there were hundreds

566
00:32:53,570 --> 00:32:56,170
Speaker 1: of things that I was now tallying up in my head.

567
00:32:56,930 --> 00:33:01,810
Speaker 1: So then the same week, when all this is happening,

568
00:33:02,210 --> 00:33:03,970
Speaker 1: and I didn't go to work that week to take

569
00:33:04,010 --> 00:33:06,810
Speaker 1: my mind off it, he said, you want to come

570
00:33:06,810 --> 00:33:09,410
Speaker 1: to work with me and help me clear out my desk.

571
00:33:09,490 --> 00:33:11,810
Speaker 1: You know, like you're so good at organizing things. As

572
00:33:11,810 --> 00:33:14,410
Speaker 1: you've organized all the wedding, you're probably just pulling it,

573
00:33:14,450 --> 00:33:17,530
Speaker 1: clutching its straws because you're so overwhelmed. Come to work

574
00:33:17,570 --> 00:33:19,410
Speaker 1: with me and help me clear out my desk. It's

575
00:33:19,410 --> 00:33:21,330
Speaker 1: such a mess and you're so good at that, and

576
00:33:21,370 --> 00:33:24,050
Speaker 1: I came to his work and you couldn't have scripted

577
00:33:24,050 --> 00:33:26,770
Speaker 1: it better. He had just a really messy desk and

578
00:33:26,930 --> 00:33:29,810
Speaker 1: really messy draws, and in one of the really messy

579
00:33:29,890 --> 00:33:32,970
Speaker 1: drawers was a journal. And in the journal when I

580
00:33:33,050 --> 00:33:36,410
Speaker 1: opened it up, because I'm human and I couldn't help

581
00:33:36,410 --> 00:33:39,290
Speaker 1: myself when I opened it up, and it just was

582
00:33:39,330 --> 00:33:42,410
Speaker 1: perfect timing that I pulled that drawer open. The journal

583
00:33:42,450 --> 00:33:45,490
Speaker 1: was under very few things as I was tidying them,

584
00:33:45,850 --> 00:33:47,890
Speaker 1: and he walked out of the room to get something

585
00:33:47,890 --> 00:33:50,170
Speaker 1: and announced, you know, like I'm just going to get

586
00:33:50,250 --> 00:33:53,410
Speaker 1: us a cup of coffee or something. I opened it up,

587
00:33:53,530 --> 00:33:58,290
Speaker 1: and it really explicitly, in very messy handwriting, but really

588
00:33:58,330 --> 00:34:01,730
Speaker 1: explicitly was talking about as she and saying, you know,

589
00:34:01,890 --> 00:34:05,730
Speaker 1: she doesn't know what's coming, make her feel vulnerable, make

590
00:34:05,770 --> 00:34:09,490
Speaker 1: her feel disoriented, make her feel confused, like that's where

591
00:34:09,530 --> 00:34:12,170
Speaker 1: the last entry was, it's where like a book was.

592
00:34:12,930 --> 00:34:17,450
Speaker 1: And then perfectly timed, he walked in. So I shot

593
00:34:17,490 --> 00:34:19,050
Speaker 1: the book and I put it away, and I just

594
00:34:19,090 --> 00:34:22,450
Speaker 1: pretended like it hadn't happened, even though in those few

595
00:34:22,530 --> 00:34:26,730
Speaker 1: scrawled sentences it was actually piecing every fear I had

596
00:34:26,930 --> 00:34:29,930
Speaker 1: all together because that's exactly what it was. But for

597
00:34:30,050 --> 00:34:35,410
Speaker 1: some reason that is inexplicable to me, I couldn't process it,

598
00:34:35,730 --> 00:34:39,050
Speaker 1: and so I put it back and I didn't confront

599
00:34:39,130 --> 00:34:41,650
Speaker 1: him about it. Even now when I try and think

600
00:34:41,690 --> 00:34:44,570
Speaker 1: about that, in that moment, I could have taken it,

601
00:34:44,610 --> 00:34:46,170
Speaker 1: and I could have run off, and I could have

602
00:34:46,250 --> 00:34:48,330
Speaker 1: shown all my friends. Look, look, see, he's written a

603
00:34:48,410 --> 00:34:51,330
Speaker 1: journal and this is like entry fifty. This is every

604
00:34:51,410 --> 00:34:54,250
Speaker 1: date we ever had, and he's been chronicling it, and

605
00:34:54,330 --> 00:34:57,170
Speaker 1: he's been following a rule book. He refers to that

606
00:34:57,250 --> 00:35:01,490
Speaker 1: he's achieving rule number like forty three or something. Even then,

607
00:35:01,690 --> 00:35:06,010
Speaker 1: because it didn't have my name, I still felt hopeful.

608
00:35:06,490 --> 00:35:09,810
Speaker 1: He loved writing short stories, and I thought could be

609
00:35:09,850 --> 00:35:12,450
Speaker 1: a novel, could be a short story, could be something

610
00:35:12,490 --> 00:35:14,850
Speaker 1: he wrote in the past. He's got such a messy desk.

611
00:35:14,930 --> 00:35:17,970
Speaker 1: This could be about the X, could be about anyone.

612
00:35:18,090 --> 00:35:21,130
Speaker 1: It may not even be his handwriting. It's hard to tell.

613
00:35:22,090 --> 00:35:24,250
Speaker 1: I put it back in the draw and pretended I

614
00:35:24,330 --> 00:35:28,010
Speaker 1: hadn't seen it and just decided to go ahead with

615
00:35:28,130 --> 00:35:28,650
Speaker 1: this wedding.

616
00:35:29,930 --> 00:35:33,370
Speaker 2: It was here the morning of the wedding, three months

617
00:35:33,410 --> 00:35:36,530
Speaker 2: after Jess had met Matt, she had a really bad

618
00:35:36,570 --> 00:35:40,970
Speaker 2: feeling about something, but she pushed it aside. It was,

619
00:35:41,090 --> 00:35:42,530
Speaker 2: after all, her wedding day.

620
00:35:43,410 --> 00:35:45,490
Speaker 1: So it was the morning of the wedding, and I

621
00:35:45,610 --> 00:35:49,090
Speaker 1: had resolved to have a great day, to commit to it,

622
00:35:49,170 --> 00:35:51,250
Speaker 1: to go all in, to let go of all my

623
00:35:51,330 --> 00:35:54,130
Speaker 1: anxieties because I was obviously the problem. And I was

624
00:35:54,130 --> 00:35:56,770
Speaker 1: so excited because it was also my thirty first birthday

625
00:35:57,330 --> 00:36:00,250
Speaker 1: and all my dreams were coming true. I woke up,

626
00:36:00,410 --> 00:36:02,370
Speaker 1: he didn't acknowledge that it was my birthday, and I

627
00:36:02,450 --> 00:36:05,850
Speaker 1: just thought it's because he's excited, and he'd been building

628
00:36:05,890 --> 00:36:08,170
Speaker 1: up this gift that he was so happy to have

629
00:36:08,170 --> 00:36:10,730
Speaker 1: gone out and got for me the day before, that

630
00:36:10,810 --> 00:36:14,650
Speaker 1: he'd been planning for a long time. And then he

631
00:36:14,770 --> 00:36:20,770
Speaker 1: showed it to me and it was a watch for him,

632
00:36:21,730 --> 00:36:24,930
Speaker 1: and I was so confused. He was explaining what a

633
00:36:25,010 --> 00:36:27,290
Speaker 1: thoughtful gift it was because it was going to make

634
00:36:27,370 --> 00:36:30,250
Speaker 1: him on time, and that he had engraved it, and

635
00:36:30,290 --> 00:36:34,130
Speaker 1: that the engraving was symbolic of how he was committed

636
00:36:34,210 --> 00:36:37,530
Speaker 1: to me, and that he just knew how much I

637
00:36:37,530 --> 00:36:42,490
Speaker 1: would love that he had got this gift for him

638
00:36:42,490 --> 00:36:47,290
Speaker 1: to wear because it would make my life better. Happy birthday.

639
00:36:48,490 --> 00:36:51,570
Speaker 1: I got really angry, and even though I had not

640
00:36:51,610 --> 00:36:53,490
Speaker 1: wanted to. And then I was so embarrassed that I

641
00:36:53,490 --> 00:36:55,570
Speaker 1: got really angry, and I expressed why I was hurting,

642
00:36:55,610 --> 00:36:58,570
Speaker 1: all of these emotions that I'd been toying with, and

643
00:36:58,970 --> 00:37:00,970
Speaker 1: I just said, this is not right. Why would you

644
00:37:01,050 --> 00:37:03,530
Speaker 1: do that? That doesn't even make sense? And then he

645
00:37:04,090 --> 00:37:07,250
Speaker 1: left his stonewalled me, wouldn't talk to me, and that

646
00:37:07,330 --> 00:37:09,690
Speaker 1: was the first time he had done that, wouldn't talk

647
00:37:09,730 --> 00:37:13,770
Speaker 1: to me, and just left. And then the wedding wasn't

648
00:37:13,850 --> 00:37:16,410
Speaker 1: till the afternoon. We'd had all these plans of things.

649
00:37:16,450 --> 00:37:18,410
Speaker 1: We were going to go get the rings together. There

650
00:37:18,410 --> 00:37:20,090
Speaker 1: are all these different things that we were going to do,

651
00:37:20,530 --> 00:37:24,050
Speaker 1: and he didn't turn up for any of them. His groomsman,

652
00:37:24,130 --> 00:37:26,930
Speaker 1: his family, didn't know where he was. His brother came

653
00:37:27,090 --> 00:37:31,050
Speaker 1: over to comfort me. He was missing an action, and

654
00:37:31,090 --> 00:37:33,290
Speaker 1: I thought, oh my gosh, he doesn't want to marry

655
00:37:33,330 --> 00:37:36,770
Speaker 1: me anymore, because I'm such a selfish person that I

656
00:37:36,850 --> 00:37:39,330
Speaker 1: expected a birthday present on my birthday. On my wedding

657
00:37:39,410 --> 00:37:42,130
Speaker 1: day when I woke up, You're such a bad person, yes,

658
00:37:42,890 --> 00:37:45,290
Speaker 1: And so yeah, he was gone long enough for me

659
00:37:45,410 --> 00:37:48,490
Speaker 1: to embarrass and humiliate myself in front of every close

660
00:37:48,530 --> 00:37:50,730
Speaker 1: person that we had and make it so that a

661
00:37:50,730 --> 00:37:52,370
Speaker 1: lot of people coming to the wedding that night were

662
00:37:52,370 --> 00:37:55,890
Speaker 1: going to know what had happened. Was humiliated, still couldn't

663
00:37:55,930 --> 00:37:58,010
Speaker 1: cancel it because now I was canceling it if I

664
00:37:58,050 --> 00:38:00,530
Speaker 1: canceled it, canceling it because I didn't get the birthday

665
00:38:00,570 --> 00:38:05,050
Speaker 1: present I wanted. And by the time he showed up,

666
00:38:05,610 --> 00:38:08,490
Speaker 1: you know, after being missing an action, he said that

667
00:38:08,610 --> 00:38:13,570
Speaker 1: he had been off seeing his ex. It was about

668
00:38:13,610 --> 00:38:16,170
Speaker 1: six hours later, and it was really at the last

669
00:38:16,450 --> 00:38:20,050
Speaker 1: possible minute. He turned up as if nothing had happened

670
00:38:20,290 --> 00:38:24,650
Speaker 1: and expressed, you know, that he was disappointed that things

671
00:38:24,690 --> 00:38:26,650
Speaker 1: had played out this way, but that we would work

672
00:38:26,690 --> 00:38:29,530
Speaker 1: through it together. And it was the first time he

673
00:38:29,970 --> 00:38:35,050
Speaker 1: hadn't apologized for something that was clearly his fault and

674
00:38:35,050 --> 00:38:39,890
Speaker 1: that he was not taking any ownership for. And I

675
00:38:39,930 --> 00:38:42,050
Speaker 1: was just so confused, But I was so relieved that

676
00:38:42,050 --> 00:38:43,850
Speaker 1: he was there, because now he was going to be

677
00:38:43,890 --> 00:38:48,090
Speaker 1: there for the wedding. So I apologized again for being

678
00:38:48,130 --> 00:38:52,010
Speaker 1: so selfish, being such a selfish person, and begged him

679
00:38:52,050 --> 00:38:54,130
Speaker 1: to marry me, and that I would be a better

680
00:38:54,130 --> 00:38:58,450
Speaker 1: person and that I would be less materialistic and less

681
00:38:58,450 --> 00:39:02,090
Speaker 1: self consumed. And that I understood why he had gone

682
00:39:02,130 --> 00:39:04,730
Speaker 1: to see his ex, because she would understand him better

683
00:39:04,730 --> 00:39:08,530
Speaker 1: than I did, and she would understand him. He said

684
00:39:08,570 --> 00:39:13,130
Speaker 1: he'd gone to talk to her to try to see

685
00:39:13,130 --> 00:39:15,890
Speaker 1: if maybe the problem was him and if he had

686
00:39:15,930 --> 00:39:19,130
Speaker 1: done something wrong. He wanted someone who knew him really

687
00:39:19,210 --> 00:39:23,810
Speaker 1: well and deeply to give him the best idea of

688
00:39:23,850 --> 00:39:25,930
Speaker 1: what he could do to fix this situation, because he

689
00:39:25,930 --> 00:39:28,170
Speaker 1: didn't know how to move ahead with the wedding, and

690
00:39:28,250 --> 00:39:31,930
Speaker 1: he was considering whether he had been premature in asking

691
00:39:32,050 --> 00:39:34,770
Speaker 1: and whether it was a mistake, and that she would

692
00:39:34,770 --> 00:39:36,730
Speaker 1: provide him comfort. And he told me that she did

693
00:39:36,770 --> 00:39:41,290
Speaker 1: provide him comfort and that she was really helpful and

694
00:39:41,850 --> 00:39:44,730
Speaker 1: I should be very grateful to her for the help

695
00:39:44,810 --> 00:39:48,010
Speaker 1: that she provided him so that he could go ahead

696
00:39:48,050 --> 00:39:51,810
Speaker 1: with marrying me. He needed that sort of comfort and

697
00:39:51,850 --> 00:39:54,490
Speaker 1: that he knew I would grow to be that kind

698
00:39:54,530 --> 00:39:57,410
Speaker 1: of support for him too one day, which is why

699
00:39:57,450 --> 00:40:03,850
Speaker 1: he wanted to marry me. It was beautiful and everything

700
00:40:03,890 --> 00:40:09,090
Speaker 1: went off without a hitch. Everything played out perfectly. He

701
00:40:09,290 --> 00:40:12,930
Speaker 1: made such a beautiful speech and made me feel so

702
00:40:13,010 --> 00:40:18,490
Speaker 1: valued and made me feel very embarrassed that I had

703
00:40:19,090 --> 00:40:21,650
Speaker 1: hung our dirty laundry out for everyone to see that day,

704
00:40:21,930 --> 00:40:23,530
Speaker 1: and that I'd made such a big deal out of

705
00:40:23,530 --> 00:40:27,050
Speaker 1: such a silly thing like a watch. That was my fault.

706
00:40:27,090 --> 00:40:30,810
Speaker 1: That's how I felt. That was my fault. He didn't disappear.

707
00:40:30,810 --> 00:40:34,050
Speaker 1: I pushed him away because I was not being rational

708
00:40:35,050 --> 00:40:37,610
Speaker 1: and because I was not being my best self, and

709
00:40:37,650 --> 00:40:42,370
Speaker 1: it was all my fault. So we went on our honeymoon,

710
00:40:42,890 --> 00:40:45,650
Speaker 1: which we'd been planning, which was so exciting. He had

711
00:40:45,650 --> 00:40:49,170
Speaker 1: primarily planned the honeymoon, and I had primarily planned the wedding,

712
00:40:49,170 --> 00:40:52,650
Speaker 1: so I was so excited. As soon as the honeymoon started,

713
00:40:52,690 --> 00:40:56,570
Speaker 1: he started revealing, bit by bit things that he had

714
00:40:56,610 --> 00:41:00,570
Speaker 1: not revealed before that I hadn't even thought of as

715
00:41:00,610 --> 00:41:05,490
Speaker 1: being necessary to reveal reasons behind choices he had made.

716
00:41:05,770 --> 00:41:11,130
Speaker 1: He started revealing how he'd planned our the proposal, and

717
00:41:11,170 --> 00:41:13,850
Speaker 1: how he had talked to the venue beforehand, and all

718
00:41:13,890 --> 00:41:16,530
Speaker 1: of a sudden, he was revealing all these things about

719
00:41:16,730 --> 00:41:18,770
Speaker 1: how he had read my blog, which I hadn't really

720
00:41:18,810 --> 00:41:21,690
Speaker 1: done anything with for years, and he revealed that the

721
00:41:21,770 --> 00:41:24,090
Speaker 1: reason he knew and understood so much about me was

722
00:41:24,130 --> 00:41:26,690
Speaker 1: because he loved my blog, and I really hadn't thought

723
00:41:26,690 --> 00:41:28,210
Speaker 1: about it. It was just sort of sitting there on

724
00:41:28,210 --> 00:41:30,970
Speaker 1: the internet for so long, and all of a sudden,

725
00:41:31,010 --> 00:41:34,490
Speaker 1: he was just revealing all this information that I didn't know,

726
00:41:35,250 --> 00:41:37,450
Speaker 1: and I really thought i'd known so much about him.

727
00:41:37,850 --> 00:41:40,010
Speaker 1: And he started walking in on me when I was

728
00:41:40,010 --> 00:41:42,690
Speaker 1: in the bathroom, but like when I was on toilet,

729
00:41:43,210 --> 00:41:47,930
Speaker 1: little things like that that were just strange things that

730
00:41:48,010 --> 00:41:50,690
Speaker 1: he knew that I didn't like. And he'd been so

731
00:41:50,890 --> 00:41:53,290
Speaker 1: respectful in the three months leading up to the wedding

732
00:41:54,290 --> 00:41:58,130
Speaker 1: with everything. He just seemed to understand every nuanced feeling

733
00:41:58,450 --> 00:42:00,930
Speaker 1: that I had, even ones that I hadn't expressed to him,

734
00:42:00,970 --> 00:42:03,410
Speaker 1: and it was because, yeah, he had done his research,

735
00:42:03,490 --> 00:42:05,770
Speaker 1: and he was revealing that he had done his research.

736
00:42:05,810 --> 00:42:08,530
Speaker 1: He'd read my blog, and he revealed that he'd gone

737
00:42:08,570 --> 00:42:10,650
Speaker 1: through my Facebook and looked at every status that I

738
00:42:10,730 --> 00:42:14,090
Speaker 1: had had since two thousand and seven, and that he

739
00:42:14,290 --> 00:42:17,690
Speaker 1: loved reading and looking at all the pictures. Except that

740
00:42:17,730 --> 00:42:20,330
Speaker 1: now it just felt creepy. I didn't feel valuable. I

741
00:42:20,370 --> 00:42:23,330
Speaker 1: felt stalked by someone who I had just married.

742
00:42:23,850 --> 00:42:26,330
Speaker 2: If Jesse had thought things had begun to unravel before

743
00:42:26,370 --> 00:42:30,450
Speaker 2: the wedding, now it was just them for weeks, with

744
00:42:30,490 --> 00:42:33,490
Speaker 2: no money and no friends or family to support her,

745
00:42:34,010 --> 00:42:36,810
Speaker 2: and suddenly things started to get much worse.

746
00:42:37,530 --> 00:42:43,610
Speaker 1: He forgot things that were important, like passports. My things

747
00:42:43,650 --> 00:42:47,610
Speaker 1: went missing, important things like my key card, so that

748
00:42:47,690 --> 00:42:50,770
Speaker 1: I became financially dependent on him, even though that was

749
00:42:50,770 --> 00:42:54,970
Speaker 1: one of the things that I really valued, that I

750
00:42:55,690 --> 00:42:58,770
Speaker 1: was a successful middle class person who had played my

751
00:42:58,810 --> 00:43:01,770
Speaker 1: cards right, and all of a sudden I didn't have

752
00:43:01,810 --> 00:43:05,050
Speaker 1: access to my money because my belongings we went missing

753
00:43:05,450 --> 00:43:09,370
Speaker 1: from the hotel. Before we were married, he wanted me

754
00:43:09,410 --> 00:43:13,410
Speaker 1: to do something that he breast he really enjoyed in

755
00:43:13,450 --> 00:43:16,810
Speaker 1: the bedroom, and I wasn't wanting to partake, and he

756
00:43:16,890 --> 00:43:22,050
Speaker 1: was very respectful of that. But from the night that

757
00:43:22,410 --> 00:43:26,890
Speaker 1: we got married, most nights, while I was asleep, he

758
00:43:27,210 --> 00:43:32,410
Speaker 1: would put lube on me and anally rape me, and

759
00:43:32,490 --> 00:43:35,730
Speaker 1: then in the night when it was happening instantly, I

760
00:43:35,770 --> 00:43:38,410
Speaker 1: would wake up and he would tell me that I

761
00:43:38,490 --> 00:43:41,570
Speaker 1: was having a nightmare, and he would comfort me so

762
00:43:41,610 --> 00:43:44,850
Speaker 1: it would only last for a second, but it was terrifying,

763
00:43:45,450 --> 00:43:49,290
Speaker 1: and then he somehow in all of this managed to

764
00:43:49,290 --> 00:43:52,370
Speaker 1: convince me that I was probably wanting it and feeling

765
00:43:52,370 --> 00:43:55,210
Speaker 1: guilty and ashamed of myself because I didn't want that.

766
00:43:55,290 --> 00:43:57,850
Speaker 1: Before we'd got married, and maybe we should do it

767
00:43:57,930 --> 00:44:00,770
Speaker 1: so that I could stop dreaming about it, stop having

768
00:44:00,850 --> 00:44:04,850
Speaker 1: nightmares about it. So we did have anal sex, and

769
00:44:05,650 --> 00:44:10,250
Speaker 1: I did not enjoy it, But then in doing it,

770
00:44:10,490 --> 00:44:13,290
Speaker 1: I had sort of paved the way for when it

771
00:44:13,330 --> 00:44:17,210
Speaker 1: would happen. Often in the night he would say things

772
00:44:17,250 --> 00:44:20,610
Speaker 1: like that I had initiated it, or that sometimes it

773
00:44:20,650 --> 00:44:23,410
Speaker 1: was just that I had hallucinated it. And in doing

774
00:44:23,450 --> 00:44:28,170
Speaker 1: all of that, he then revealed that my being so

775
00:44:28,290 --> 00:44:32,170
Speaker 1: prudish about it is actually what led him to see

776
00:44:32,210 --> 00:44:36,370
Speaker 1: a prostitute before we were married. And I was so confused,

777
00:44:36,410 --> 00:44:39,370
Speaker 1: what was he talking about? And he said that he

778
00:44:39,450 --> 00:44:43,250
Speaker 1: had felt such an urge, that it was so important

779
00:44:43,250 --> 00:44:46,290
Speaker 1: to him, and that he'd been seeing a prostitute, and

780
00:44:46,330 --> 00:44:48,010
Speaker 1: that that's one of the reasons that he'd been late

781
00:44:48,010 --> 00:44:51,570
Speaker 1: to events, because he was seeing a prostitute. And as

782
00:44:51,610 --> 00:44:54,010
Speaker 1: it turned out, he hadn't seen his ex the day

783
00:44:54,090 --> 00:44:56,730
Speaker 1: of our wedding, when he'd gone a war that had

784
00:44:56,730 --> 00:45:01,530
Speaker 1: actually gone to a prostitute. There were just so many

785
00:45:02,090 --> 00:45:08,050
Speaker 1: disturbing experiences, and as the weeks rolled on, I became

786
00:45:08,130 --> 00:45:12,410
Speaker 1: convinced that he was trying to kill me. He doing reading,

787
00:45:12,450 --> 00:45:14,690
Speaker 1: he was always doing reading, and he was reading about

788
00:45:14,770 --> 00:45:18,210
Speaker 1: a woman who had been killed by her husband on

789
00:45:18,250 --> 00:45:22,450
Speaker 1: their honeymoon while scuba diving, and that had happened, I

790
00:45:22,450 --> 00:45:26,250
Speaker 1: think in recent years at the time, and he was

791
00:45:26,330 --> 00:45:30,490
Speaker 1: expressing how disappointing and how terrible that would have been.

792
00:45:30,970 --> 00:45:33,970
Speaker 1: But it was really planning seeds in my head. And

793
00:45:34,010 --> 00:45:38,010
Speaker 1: then there are all these things. He would cross roads

794
00:45:38,690 --> 00:45:40,970
Speaker 1: and be holding my hand, and then he would trip

795
00:45:41,010 --> 00:45:43,890
Speaker 1: over because he was such a clumsy person, and accidentally

796
00:45:43,930 --> 00:45:46,930
Speaker 1: push me into traffic on busy roads where we were,

797
00:45:47,570 --> 00:45:50,610
Speaker 1: and when we would get out of taxis, he would

798
00:45:50,810 --> 00:45:56,090
Speaker 1: accidentally trip and accidentally slam doors which would accidentally hit me.

799
00:45:56,930 --> 00:46:00,370
Speaker 1: And there were just lots of little things. There was

800
00:46:00,930 --> 00:46:04,730
Speaker 1: food that he would give me that just tasted wrong.

801
00:46:04,890 --> 00:46:08,130
Speaker 1: I was worried that he was giving me drugs. I

802
00:46:08,170 --> 00:46:10,610
Speaker 1: didn't want to eat. I didn't want to drink anything

803
00:46:10,650 --> 00:46:12,930
Speaker 1: that wasn't given direct to me by a waiter. And

804
00:46:13,010 --> 00:46:16,210
Speaker 1: even when it was, I was suspicious that he had

805
00:46:16,250 --> 00:46:20,010
Speaker 1: somehow construed for there to be something in it. He

806
00:46:20,090 --> 00:46:24,850
Speaker 1: started just blatantly telling me lies he had made about

807
00:46:24,890 --> 00:46:30,010
Speaker 1: his ex, about his job, about his financial status, about

808
00:46:30,050 --> 00:46:36,930
Speaker 1: his life, his family. Just seemed to be opening Pandora's box,

809
00:46:37,050 --> 00:46:40,130
Speaker 1: and nothing was eliciting it. He just really wanted to

810
00:46:40,170 --> 00:46:42,330
Speaker 1: tell me all these things. He just unraveled in telling

811
00:46:42,370 --> 00:46:44,850
Speaker 1: me all these things, like we're married now, so I

812
00:46:44,890 --> 00:46:48,050
Speaker 1: can tell you the truth. It felt very orchestrated that

813
00:46:48,130 --> 00:46:49,890
Speaker 1: he was in no way trying to make me feel

814
00:46:49,930 --> 00:46:53,170
Speaker 1: good anymore. He was actively trying to make me feel

815
00:46:53,250 --> 00:46:57,050
Speaker 1: unsettled and scared. And he would then fall asleep while

816
00:46:57,090 --> 00:46:59,810
Speaker 1: I was still talking, sometimes or at least pretending to

817
00:46:59,850 --> 00:47:02,650
Speaker 1: fall asleep. I felt very set up. It all felt

818
00:47:02,730 --> 00:47:08,010
Speaker 1: very contrived and very overt, telling me that things that

819
00:47:08,050 --> 00:47:13,290
Speaker 1: I had definitely experienced didn't happen, telling me that times

820
00:47:13,330 --> 00:47:15,250
Speaker 1: when he had done or said things like not fed

821
00:47:15,290 --> 00:47:18,090
Speaker 1: my cat for multiple days on a row, even though

822
00:47:18,130 --> 00:47:20,770
Speaker 1: he'd been telling me that that didn't happen. All of

823
00:47:20,810 --> 00:47:24,450
Speaker 1: a sudden, he was telling me things. Just everything that

824
00:47:24,490 --> 00:47:27,290
Speaker 1: came out of his mouth was just stuff to confuse

825
00:47:27,490 --> 00:47:30,570
Speaker 1: and derail and scare me. And I was just in

826
00:47:30,610 --> 00:47:34,170
Speaker 1: a heightened state, couldn't sleep, couldn't eat, was scared that

827
00:47:34,450 --> 00:47:37,370
Speaker 1: he was poisoning me. I felt like everything was a

828
00:47:37,410 --> 00:47:40,090
Speaker 1: trap and a setup, and was I going to get somewhere?

829
00:47:40,130 --> 00:47:42,850
Speaker 1: And he had arranged for something bad to happen to me.

830
00:47:43,490 --> 00:47:46,050
Speaker 1: Was he trying to just hurt me or scare me?

831
00:47:46,730 --> 00:47:51,490
Speaker 1: I locked myself in a hungry jack's bathroom and wouldn't

832
00:47:51,530 --> 00:47:55,890
Speaker 1: come out about midway through the honeymoon and called my

833
00:47:55,930 --> 00:48:02,170
Speaker 1: best friend and told her everything, and she was like, okay,

834
00:48:02,210 --> 00:48:04,450
Speaker 1: so just come home. And I was like, and so

835
00:48:05,010 --> 00:48:06,970
Speaker 1: can I come home now and just tell everyone this?

836
00:48:07,050 --> 00:48:08,730
Speaker 1: And she's like, I think this is pretty good cause

837
00:48:08,770 --> 00:48:11,490
Speaker 1: to just come home. And I said, okay, we go

838
00:48:11,890 --> 00:48:15,370
Speaker 1: organize that. And what I decided to do in consultation

839
00:48:15,450 --> 00:48:17,770
Speaker 1: with her is download an app on my phone so

840
00:48:17,770 --> 00:48:20,050
Speaker 1: that I could have notes that had a password on it,

841
00:48:20,090 --> 00:48:22,410
Speaker 1: because one of the things he revealed was that he'd

842
00:48:22,410 --> 00:48:25,210
Speaker 1: gone through my phone and that he had read everything,

843
00:48:25,210 --> 00:48:27,330
Speaker 1: and that he was doing it because he wanted to

844
00:48:27,370 --> 00:48:28,810
Speaker 1: know me and he wanted to make sure that I

845
00:48:28,930 --> 00:48:32,130
Speaker 1: wasn't hiding anything. So I made a list of all

846
00:48:32,170 --> 00:48:34,450
Speaker 1: the things that I could on my phone and I

847
00:48:34,490 --> 00:48:37,650
Speaker 1: told my best friend on the phone the password, but

848
00:48:37,690 --> 00:48:40,690
Speaker 1: I told it to her in code because I was convinced.

849
00:48:40,730 --> 00:48:42,930
Speaker 1: Now I was just so paranoid. I was convinced somehow

850
00:48:42,970 --> 00:48:45,930
Speaker 1: he had put some sort of recording device on my phone.

851
00:48:46,050 --> 00:48:49,530
Speaker 1: I was now just going crazy, but I had to

852
00:48:50,170 --> 00:48:53,170
Speaker 1: play along to get home, and I didn't know what

853
00:48:53,210 --> 00:48:55,370
Speaker 1: he was going to do with my passport. I had

854
00:48:55,370 --> 00:48:58,730
Speaker 1: no money. It was the worst few weeks of my life.

855
00:48:58,810 --> 00:49:01,250
Speaker 1: I was just scared, so scared.

856
00:49:02,490 --> 00:49:04,930
Speaker 2: Somehow Jess made it to the end of the honeymoon.

857
00:49:05,250 --> 00:49:07,810
Speaker 2: She was so terrified of this man, she thought herself

858
00:49:07,850 --> 00:49:10,690
Speaker 2: safe as to play along, to not upset him or

859
00:49:10,690 --> 00:49:13,250
Speaker 2: give him any reason to take things further than they'd

860
00:49:13,330 --> 00:49:17,130
Speaker 2: already got. If that was possible. She held on just

861
00:49:17,210 --> 00:49:18,170
Speaker 2: so she could get home.

862
00:49:18,850 --> 00:49:22,530
Speaker 1: When I got back to Australia, I instantly went to

863
00:49:22,570 --> 00:49:26,050
Speaker 1: a police station and reported what had happened. But I

864
00:49:26,170 --> 00:49:31,090
Speaker 1: was crying, hysterical crying, and the quite young police officer

865
00:49:31,170 --> 00:49:32,850
Speaker 1: told me that I had to collect myself and I

866
00:49:32,890 --> 00:49:34,770
Speaker 1: asked if I could go into a private room, and

867
00:49:34,810 --> 00:49:36,970
Speaker 1: I said, I was so scared. I remember looking behind

868
00:49:37,010 --> 00:49:39,330
Speaker 1: me like I was being chased, even though I wasn't,

869
00:49:39,890 --> 00:49:42,130
Speaker 1: and saying like, I'm so scared, I'm scared for my life.

870
00:49:42,210 --> 00:49:47,210
Speaker 1: I need help. I just wanted to be protected, rescued

871
00:49:47,290 --> 00:49:49,530
Speaker 1: by the police. I wanted them to take it seriously,

872
00:49:49,930 --> 00:49:53,690
Speaker 1: and I thought, what has my life become? The police

873
00:49:53,770 --> 00:49:58,690
Speaker 1: came to my apartment while he wasn't there. They were

874
00:49:58,730 --> 00:50:01,490
Speaker 1: really good. They actually sent like special police who were

875
00:50:01,530 --> 00:50:05,610
Speaker 1: trained to be I think, domestic valanced police, and I

876
00:50:05,650 --> 00:50:10,090
Speaker 1: explained everything to them. They called my husband. This is

877
00:50:10,130 --> 00:50:12,170
Speaker 1: all like in the day we got back. They called

878
00:50:12,210 --> 00:50:15,450
Speaker 1: my husband. They told him he wasn't to come to

879
00:50:15,490 --> 00:50:16,250
Speaker 1: the house.

880
00:50:16,810 --> 00:50:20,130
Speaker 2: So he didn't. He didn't fight it, he didn't contact her.

881
00:50:20,450 --> 00:50:23,850
Speaker 2: He just didn't come back. The police said he'd been receptive,

882
00:50:24,010 --> 00:50:26,530
Speaker 2: had told them he knew she was going through something

883
00:50:26,930 --> 00:50:30,210
Speaker 2: and that he'd respect that. But of course, after everything

884
00:50:30,250 --> 00:50:32,610
Speaker 2: he'd put her through, this was only the start of

885
00:50:32,650 --> 00:50:37,290
Speaker 2: the next horrible chapter for Jess.

886
00:50:37,890 --> 00:50:43,170
Speaker 1: The following weeks and months were just awful. I moved

887
00:50:43,170 --> 00:50:47,650
Speaker 1: out of the apartment quite swiftly, and he never tried

888
00:50:47,650 --> 00:50:51,810
Speaker 1: to come back to the apartment. He never tried to

889
00:50:53,410 --> 00:50:57,370
Speaker 1: come physically see me. I quit my job. I didn't

890
00:50:57,370 --> 00:51:01,250
Speaker 1: know what to do with myself, couldn't function, moved out

891
00:51:01,290 --> 00:51:05,250
Speaker 1: of my apartment, couldn't afford the mortgage, had to sell it,

892
00:51:05,330 --> 00:51:10,930
Speaker 1: couldn't work, went to my mum's house. Everything unraveled, and

893
00:51:11,050 --> 00:51:13,690
Speaker 1: he sent comforting messages to my friends and family for

894
00:51:13,730 --> 00:51:16,890
Speaker 1: the whole time of I hope she's okay, And you know,

895
00:51:17,730 --> 00:51:21,610
Speaker 1: she really struggled with being overseas and being in your

896
00:51:21,730 --> 00:51:26,010
Speaker 1: environments and really did his best to make sure that

897
00:51:26,050 --> 00:51:28,410
Speaker 1: my family thought that the problem was that I'd had

898
00:51:28,410 --> 00:51:30,290
Speaker 1: a break down and that had nothing to do with him,

899
00:51:30,290 --> 00:51:33,050
Speaker 1: and so that everything that I was saying was just

900
00:51:33,170 --> 00:51:37,050
Speaker 1: as a result of that. Yeah, my whole life unraveled.

901
00:51:37,850 --> 00:51:41,810
Speaker 1: Someone at my work contacted me to say, are you okay,

902
00:51:41,930 --> 00:51:47,650
Speaker 1: and something like if I say something, you don't have

903
00:51:47,690 --> 00:51:49,410
Speaker 1: to respond to it. But there are a lot of

904
00:51:49,410 --> 00:51:51,570
Speaker 1: women in the world who are being abused, and I

905
00:51:51,610 --> 00:51:54,050
Speaker 1: wish I could help them, and I think people need

906
00:51:54,090 --> 00:51:57,010
Speaker 1: to know that abuse is really common, and so I

907
00:51:57,090 --> 00:51:59,290
Speaker 1: just wanted you to know. And she was just the

908
00:51:59,290 --> 00:52:02,770
Speaker 1: first person who ventured that, you know, to ask who

909
00:52:02,850 --> 00:52:05,490
Speaker 1: the first person I didn't. We weren't even that close,

910
00:52:05,690 --> 00:52:08,530
Speaker 1: but she was the first person to objectively go, maybe

911
00:52:08,610 --> 00:52:12,090
Speaker 1: Jess isn't the problem. I had an epiphan in a

912
00:52:12,090 --> 00:52:14,690
Speaker 1: moment of all this fog. I had a moment where

913
00:52:14,690 --> 00:52:18,130
Speaker 1: I thought, oh, I wonder if I can contact his ex,

914
00:52:18,810 --> 00:52:22,770
Speaker 1: the one who'd sent the letter, And she immediately was

915
00:52:22,970 --> 00:52:27,010
Speaker 1: just incredibly helpful and told me that everything that was

916
00:52:27,010 --> 00:52:29,770
Speaker 1: happening to me is what in some ways had happened

917
00:52:29,810 --> 00:52:34,250
Speaker 1: to her. And then her letter made sense because she

918
00:52:34,410 --> 00:52:39,570
Speaker 1: had talked about physical violence, but about him actively breaking

919
00:52:39,570 --> 00:52:43,810
Speaker 1: her things and actively hurting her, whereas he had morphed

920
00:52:43,810 --> 00:52:46,970
Speaker 1: that for me into it being clumsiness. So he'd clumsily

921
00:52:46,970 --> 00:52:49,970
Speaker 1: broken all of my things. He had never yelled at me.

922
00:52:50,730 --> 00:52:53,690
Speaker 1: He was like a disease that had morphed. You know

923
00:52:54,090 --> 00:52:57,890
Speaker 1: that diseases in order to self perpetuate, they don't stay

924
00:52:57,930 --> 00:53:01,930
Speaker 1: the same. With her, he had yelled, he had sworn.

925
00:53:02,210 --> 00:53:04,650
Speaker 1: With me. He never yelled, He never swore. So that's

926
00:53:04,650 --> 00:53:07,290
Speaker 1: why her letter didn't correlate to me. It didn't make sense,

927
00:53:07,370 --> 00:53:09,770
Speaker 1: didn't that up. It's like a different person. But he

928
00:53:09,810 --> 00:53:12,610
Speaker 1: did break all of my things, and he'd broke all

929
00:53:12,650 --> 00:53:14,970
Speaker 1: of her things too, But they were in a rage.

930
00:53:15,410 --> 00:53:18,850
Speaker 1: She was terrified of him because of his rages. He

931
00:53:18,890 --> 00:53:22,610
Speaker 1: never raged with me. With me, it was psychological abuse confusion,

932
00:53:23,090 --> 00:53:26,410
Speaker 1: so he had morphed in order to get his next victim. Me.

933
00:53:27,490 --> 00:53:30,890
Speaker 1: Talking to her, it all was really clear, and actually

934
00:53:31,050 --> 00:53:33,730
Speaker 1: she was able to identify it. She said that he

935
00:53:33,770 --> 00:53:37,010
Speaker 1: had applied to be in the military, and that he

936
00:53:37,050 --> 00:53:41,090
Speaker 1: had been denied because he had been diagnosed as having

937
00:53:41,090 --> 00:53:43,610
Speaker 1: a personality disorder, and that they had encouraged him to

938
00:53:43,770 --> 00:53:46,810
Speaker 1: seek guidance and assistance for that, and she had gone

939
00:53:46,970 --> 00:53:49,890
Speaker 1: with him to the counseling sessions and tried to help him,

940
00:53:49,970 --> 00:53:52,810
Speaker 1: and that she'd gone along with it for so long

941
00:53:52,850 --> 00:53:55,890
Speaker 1: because her personality was to be helpful, and that she

942
00:53:55,930 --> 00:53:58,970
Speaker 1: had supported him through it for years, and in the

943
00:53:59,090 --> 00:54:01,530
Speaker 1: end it was him who discarded her, not the other

944
00:54:01,570 --> 00:54:05,530
Speaker 1: way around. So she felt abandoned by him, which is

945
00:54:05,570 --> 00:54:07,810
Speaker 1: why she had sent the letter. She was scared, but

946
00:54:07,850 --> 00:54:09,810
Speaker 1: she said even then there was still just this lingering

947
00:54:11,330 --> 00:54:15,370
Speaker 1: sense of not having resolved it. She hadn't put it

948
00:54:15,410 --> 00:54:18,730
Speaker 1: behind her. She was worried for the next person, and

949
00:54:18,770 --> 00:54:21,730
Speaker 1: she still felt immeshed, and he was still contacting her,

950
00:54:22,410 --> 00:54:26,490
Speaker 1: dragging her along through it, reminding her of things. Things

951
00:54:26,490 --> 00:54:29,930
Speaker 1: started becoming clear. I felt very validated. But the problem

952
00:54:30,050 --> 00:54:31,650
Speaker 1: was that as I came out of the fog, and

953
00:54:31,690 --> 00:54:34,690
Speaker 1: as I knew what was happening, and as I started

954
00:54:34,810 --> 00:54:37,890
Speaker 1: going to a psychologist and getting assistants, I had a

955
00:54:37,930 --> 00:54:42,010
Speaker 1: brief moment. And when I say brief, moment weeks where

956
00:54:42,050 --> 00:54:44,250
Speaker 1: I thought I can fix him, she wasn't able to

957
00:54:44,250 --> 00:54:46,450
Speaker 1: fix him. I can fix him. So even when I'm

958
00:54:46,730 --> 00:54:49,330
Speaker 1: in the depths of despair, as I started to come

959
00:54:49,370 --> 00:54:51,930
Speaker 1: out of the fog instead of getting as far away

960
00:54:51,930 --> 00:54:55,490
Speaker 1: as possible, I felt like, oh, poor guy, he has

961
00:54:55,530 --> 00:54:58,450
Speaker 1: a personality disorder. I can help him with that. And

962
00:54:58,490 --> 00:55:02,610
Speaker 1: then I started obsessively researching it. I tried to talk

963
00:55:02,650 --> 00:55:04,610
Speaker 1: to him about it, and if you can just admit

964
00:55:04,690 --> 00:55:06,970
Speaker 1: that you have this, wee can work through this together.

965
00:55:07,650 --> 00:55:10,610
Speaker 1: I applied for a job, a new job. I told

966
00:55:10,690 --> 00:55:12,650
Speaker 1: him about the job. I said, you know, we can

967
00:55:12,690 --> 00:55:14,930
Speaker 1: buy the picket fence now together because I've sold my

968
00:55:15,010 --> 00:55:17,970
Speaker 1: apartment because of that breakdown I had. And he was

969
00:55:18,010 --> 00:55:19,970
Speaker 1: all on board with it, and he was like, yeah, no, cool,

970
00:55:20,050 --> 00:55:22,330
Speaker 1: that'd be great. I didn't want it to be at

971
00:55:22,370 --> 00:55:25,450
Speaker 1: the end. I wanted to redeem myself and redeem the relationship.

972
00:55:25,810 --> 00:55:28,210
Speaker 1: And then there was a waiting period for the new

973
00:55:28,290 --> 00:55:31,690
Speaker 1: job where they didn't get back to me, even though

974
00:55:31,690 --> 00:55:33,610
Speaker 1: it seemed like I was going to get the job,

975
00:55:33,650 --> 00:55:37,450
Speaker 1: but they hadn't confirmed it. And then one day they

976
00:55:37,490 --> 00:55:40,490
Speaker 1: called me. Maybe it had been two weeks. They called

977
00:55:40,530 --> 00:55:45,490
Speaker 1: me and They left a voicemail saying, just letting you know, respectfully,

978
00:55:45,490 --> 00:55:48,610
Speaker 1: that your husband called to check how the progress of

979
00:55:49,290 --> 00:55:52,290
Speaker 1: your job application was, which is a little unusual for us.

980
00:55:52,290 --> 00:55:53,890
Speaker 1: But I just wanted to let you know that there's

981
00:55:53,890 --> 00:55:56,690
Speaker 1: been some complications, but that we're not offering you the job,

982
00:55:57,370 --> 00:55:59,170
Speaker 1: and we just wanted to let you know that your

983
00:55:59,490 --> 00:56:04,970
Speaker 1: husband called. And fortunately that's what snapped me out of it.

984
00:56:05,010 --> 00:56:06,570
Speaker 1: That was the moment where I was like, what is

985
00:56:06,730 --> 00:56:11,690
Speaker 1: happening when he'd inadvertently drawn outside people into it. This

986
00:56:12,570 --> 00:56:15,010
Speaker 1: person had left me this strange voicemail that I then

987
00:56:15,050 --> 00:56:17,770
Speaker 1: replayed a hundred times, and I was able to go, yep, no,

988
00:56:17,890 --> 00:56:21,170
Speaker 1: that's right, Okay, this is not redeemable. Even if he

989
00:56:21,250 --> 00:56:24,890
Speaker 1: is redeemable, it's beyond my scope. I am not a psychologist,

990
00:56:24,970 --> 00:56:29,890
Speaker 1: and I'm done, cut it and run. You have to

991
00:56:29,890 --> 00:56:33,770
Speaker 1: do mandatory counseling to end a marriage, and so I

992
00:56:33,890 --> 00:56:37,010
Speaker 1: told him that and he agreed to turn up. He

993
00:56:37,050 --> 00:56:39,410
Speaker 1: attended I think maybe three counseling sessions was what we

994
00:56:39,450 --> 00:56:42,410
Speaker 1: had to do. And he listened to me say everything,

995
00:56:43,290 --> 00:56:47,530
Speaker 1: and he listened so respectfully, he nodded, he expressed empathy

996
00:56:47,610 --> 00:56:52,250
Speaker 1: for me, and anyways, after maybe three sessions, the psychologist

997
00:56:52,290 --> 00:56:54,530
Speaker 1: who had been seeing us leant over and looked me

998
00:56:54,570 --> 00:56:56,570
Speaker 1: straight in the eyes. And it was the most startling

999
00:56:56,650 --> 00:56:59,450
Speaker 1: thing that I think has ever happened, because I know

1000
00:56:59,490 --> 00:57:01,730
Speaker 1: that it's not what he was supposed to do. And

1001
00:57:01,770 --> 00:57:06,090
Speaker 1: he said, Matt is dangerous and you need to end this.

1002
00:57:06,170 --> 00:57:08,770
Speaker 1: We're not going to do this anymore. And so I'm

1003
00:57:08,850 --> 00:57:11,730
Speaker 1: telling you that you need to just look at him

1004
00:57:11,810 --> 00:57:15,570
Speaker 1: and say I want a divorce and I'm done, and

1005
00:57:15,610 --> 00:57:17,530
Speaker 1: then he's going to leave the room and he will

1006
00:57:17,530 --> 00:57:21,170
Speaker 1: never contact you again. And I was so shocked by it.

1007
00:57:21,450 --> 00:57:24,170
Speaker 1: I did exactly what the psychologist said. I turned to him,

1008
00:57:24,410 --> 00:57:27,090
Speaker 1: I said those words. He was out of the room

1009
00:57:27,170 --> 00:57:30,850
Speaker 1: before I had even finished them. I feel like he

1010
00:57:31,050 --> 00:57:35,370
Speaker 1: saw that the outside world had caught him and that

1011
00:57:36,010 --> 00:57:38,530
Speaker 1: there was no going back there, that he may as

1012
00:57:38,530 --> 00:57:42,210
Speaker 1: well just move on. And Yeah, that was it, normal messages,

1013
00:57:42,250 --> 00:57:49,370
Speaker 1: nom my calls, nothing, It was done. I developed pneumonia,

1014
00:57:50,210 --> 00:57:53,210
Speaker 1: I had to go to hospital. I wanted to die.

1015
00:57:53,450 --> 00:57:57,930
Speaker 1: I lost all my money, went back to scratch, didn't

1016
00:57:57,930 --> 00:58:00,530
Speaker 1: want to be a mother anymore. He was just waiting

1017
00:58:00,530 --> 00:58:06,690
Speaker 1: for a bus. Yeah, that's it was just the absolute

1018
00:58:07,090 --> 00:58:10,170
Speaker 1: depths of despair. I didn't want to come back from it.

1019
00:58:10,410 --> 00:58:12,050
Speaker 1: It was the first time in my life there had

1020
00:58:12,050 --> 00:58:15,730
Speaker 1: been something so incredibly traumatic that I had been complicit

1021
00:58:15,850 --> 00:58:19,130
Speaker 1: in that. I was humiliated by that. I felt like

1022
00:58:19,130 --> 00:58:21,890
Speaker 1: I couldn't trust myself, couldn't trust myself to have another relationship,

1023
00:58:21,890 --> 00:58:25,330
Speaker 1: couldn't trust myself to be a mother, couldn't trust myself

1024
00:58:25,370 --> 00:58:28,010
Speaker 1: to do my job. I just wanted to die so much.

1025
00:58:28,650 --> 00:58:35,170
Speaker 1: And I was very lucky that my mom just I

1026
00:58:35,250 --> 00:58:38,290
Speaker 1: just felt like I couldn't go through with anything like

1027
00:58:38,330 --> 00:58:44,210
Speaker 1: that because it would leave her. So yeah, I was very,

1028
00:58:44,290 --> 00:58:49,250
Speaker 1: very lucky that she didn't really leave me alone. Whenever

1029
00:58:49,290 --> 00:58:51,490
Speaker 1: she thought I was in the absolute pits of despair,

1030
00:58:51,610 --> 00:58:55,010
Speaker 1: she would fall over and hurt herself or things like

1031
00:58:55,050 --> 00:58:58,410
Speaker 1: that and then cry and be like, just come help me,

1032
00:58:58,810 --> 00:59:01,610
Speaker 1: I need help. And I'm like, you know, I wasn't

1033
00:59:01,650 --> 00:59:03,290
Speaker 1: going to stay in bed when she was yelling things

1034
00:59:03,330 --> 00:59:05,770
Speaker 1: like that out And she really played me in a

1035
00:59:05,770 --> 00:59:10,970
Speaker 1: good way. And yeah, I lived with her for a while.

1036
00:59:11,170 --> 00:59:16,490
Speaker 1: And then the police contacted me to say that there

1037
00:59:16,570 --> 00:59:23,410
Speaker 1: was another victim and asked if I was prepared to

1038
00:59:23,450 --> 00:59:26,410
Speaker 1: talk to that person because I had expressed to them

1039
00:59:26,810 --> 00:59:31,370
Speaker 1: in doing a debriefing that I'd expressed to them that

1040
00:59:31,410 --> 00:59:33,530
Speaker 1: I would be prepared to be like the person who'd

1041
00:59:33,570 --> 00:59:39,010
Speaker 1: helped me. So I helped that person, and that was

1042
00:59:39,050 --> 00:59:42,530
Speaker 1: actually really cathartic for me to help the next victim

1043
00:59:42,690 --> 00:59:47,810
Speaker 1: who had a similar experience. Hers was worse. I would say.

1044
00:59:48,290 --> 00:59:51,290
Speaker 1: She didn't marry him, but the experience was worse because

1045
00:59:51,330 --> 00:59:54,450
Speaker 1: he was able to make it more intense. She was

1046
00:59:54,610 --> 01:00:01,650
Speaker 1: a psychologist, and it destroyed her career, and she didn't

1047
01:00:01,690 --> 01:00:04,690
Speaker 1: trust herself to have that career. And it was validating

1048
01:00:04,730 --> 01:00:07,970
Speaker 1: for me to hear that someone smarter than me, who

1049
01:00:08,250 --> 01:00:10,210
Speaker 1: should have picked it, could have picked it. Maybe I

1050
01:00:10,250 --> 01:00:13,290
Speaker 1: don't know that she didn't pick it either. That was comforting.

1051
01:00:14,050 --> 01:00:17,490
Speaker 1: I then asked the police not to contact me again

1052
01:00:18,050 --> 01:00:20,370
Speaker 1: and said that I was done, and I felt really

1053
01:00:20,370 --> 01:00:23,010
Speaker 1: bad for any future victims, but that I couldn't do

1054
01:00:23,090 --> 01:00:24,970
Speaker 1: that again. And even though I'd been the one to

1055
01:00:25,010 --> 01:00:28,770
Speaker 1: initiate and say please, I would like to help someone,

1056
01:00:29,090 --> 01:00:32,930
Speaker 1: I didn't want that to be my life. And I'd

1057
01:00:32,970 --> 01:00:35,530
Speaker 1: had enough therapy that I felt like I wanted to

1058
01:00:35,570 --> 01:00:40,650
Speaker 1: live again, and everything reminded me of it in the

1059
01:00:40,690 --> 01:00:48,050
Speaker 1: city where we lived, so I moved cities and started

1060
01:00:48,050 --> 01:00:52,490
Speaker 1: a new life and didn't tell people about it, and

1061
01:00:52,530 --> 01:00:54,490
Speaker 1: it's just one of those things we don't talk about now.

1062
01:00:55,410 --> 01:00:57,890
Speaker 2: Jess was terrified for a long time that Matt would

1063
01:00:57,930 --> 01:01:00,610
Speaker 2: get back in touch or turn back up, but he

1064
01:01:00,730 --> 01:01:04,290
Speaker 2: never did. A decade has now passed. It was far

1065
01:01:04,410 --> 01:01:06,450
Speaker 2: from the flick of a switch for Jess to move on,

1066
01:01:06,890 --> 01:01:10,290
Speaker 2: but with support from her loved ones and therapy, she's

1067
01:01:10,330 --> 01:01:11,810
Speaker 2: made it through to the other side.

1068
01:01:12,490 --> 01:01:14,730
Speaker 1: It was a year before I wanted to start a

1069
01:01:14,770 --> 01:01:19,130
Speaker 1: new life. It was a very long time like it

1070
01:01:19,250 --> 01:01:24,010
Speaker 1: was not sadness, It wasn't like a usual breakup. It

1071
01:01:24,090 --> 01:01:27,450
Speaker 1: was just the worst, and I'd given up any kind

1072
01:01:27,490 --> 01:01:30,290
Speaker 1: of interest in having a family, having a relationship. None

1073
01:01:30,330 --> 01:01:33,130
Speaker 1: of it appealed to me. A psychologist said to me

1074
01:01:33,650 --> 01:01:36,650
Speaker 1: that when you're in a state like that, when you're

1075
01:01:36,690 --> 01:01:39,090
Speaker 1: in the middle of a forest and it's dark and

1076
01:01:39,130 --> 01:01:42,890
Speaker 1: everything around you feel scary, just know that forests aren't

1077
01:01:42,890 --> 01:01:45,250
Speaker 1: the whole world, and that if you just keep walking,

1078
01:01:45,370 --> 01:01:48,250
Speaker 1: even if it's slowly, even if you're crawling, you'll eventually

1079
01:01:48,250 --> 01:01:50,250
Speaker 1: get out of the forest. And the only time you

1080
01:01:50,250 --> 01:01:52,050
Speaker 1: won't get out of the forest is if you just

1081
01:01:52,130 --> 01:01:56,690
Speaker 1: give up. And so I just kept crawling. The moving

1082
01:01:56,730 --> 01:01:59,170
Speaker 1: was good. It gave me something to do. And I

1083
01:01:59,250 --> 01:02:02,810
Speaker 1: met a girl at my new job who was a

1084
01:02:02,810 --> 01:02:07,450
Speaker 1: solo mum by choice, and I didn't know that was

1085
01:02:07,450 --> 01:02:10,210
Speaker 1: a big thing. I would have done that when I

1086
01:02:10,250 --> 01:02:13,490
Speaker 1: was thirty if i'd known it was a thing, because

1087
01:02:13,490 --> 01:02:15,290
Speaker 1: I just wanted to be a mom. I didn't really

1088
01:02:15,290 --> 01:02:17,530
Speaker 1: want a relationship. I just wanted to be a mom.

1089
01:02:18,650 --> 01:02:21,650
Speaker 1: She told me that that was a thing, and I

1090
01:02:21,650 --> 01:02:25,610
Speaker 1: didn't have any money anymore, so I used my superannuation

1091
01:02:25,930 --> 01:02:30,530
Speaker 1: and that gave me another reason to live, and I

1092
01:02:30,570 --> 01:02:33,290
Speaker 1: got pregnant, I had a baby. It's given me out

1093
01:02:33,530 --> 01:02:39,730
Speaker 1: whole nother life that, yeah, I'm really grateful for. I

1094
01:02:39,770 --> 01:02:41,930
Speaker 1: would do all of it all over again to get

1095
01:02:41,930 --> 01:02:44,770
Speaker 1: the life I have now. But I hope that other

1096
01:02:44,810 --> 01:02:48,050
Speaker 1: people listen to this and if they know like I did,

1097
01:02:48,090 --> 01:02:50,570
Speaker 1: that they didn't really want a relationship. They just wanted

1098
01:02:50,570 --> 01:02:54,450
Speaker 1: to be a mom. I hope that they know that

1099
01:02:54,530 --> 01:02:58,450
Speaker 1: you can and you can just do it on your own.

1100
01:02:58,690 --> 01:03:01,730
Speaker 1: Relationships can happen later if you want them and never

1101
01:03:01,770 --> 01:03:04,650
Speaker 1: want a relationship again. I know that I could spend

1102
01:03:04,650 --> 01:03:07,050
Speaker 1: a lot of money on therapy maybe and change my mind,

1103
01:03:07,050 --> 01:03:10,170
Speaker 1: but I don't want to. I'm actively I'm so happy

1104
01:03:10,730 --> 01:03:13,890
Speaker 1: from the moment I got pregnant, No, I felt like

1105
01:03:13,930 --> 01:03:21,450
Speaker 1: I was a new person for me. That death and

1106
01:03:21,490 --> 01:03:25,490
Speaker 1: being reborn as a mum was just so wonderful because

1107
01:03:26,490 --> 01:03:29,450
Speaker 1: it was whole new life and a whole new reason

1108
01:03:29,490 --> 01:03:34,050
Speaker 1: to live and changed my life. I wish I could,

1109
01:03:34,050 --> 01:03:37,170
Speaker 1: of course, skip the whole part in the middle, you know,

1110
01:03:37,250 --> 01:03:40,490
Speaker 1: age twenty five to thirty, all the bad relationships, because

1111
01:03:40,530 --> 01:03:42,330
Speaker 1: I'm just not good in them. I don't like them,

1112
01:03:42,530 --> 01:03:44,850
Speaker 1: I don't like being in relationships. They hard work for

1113
01:03:44,890 --> 01:03:47,410
Speaker 1: me and I don't feel the value in them. And

1114
01:03:47,810 --> 01:03:49,730
Speaker 1: I knew that, but I thought that the only way

1115
01:03:49,770 --> 01:03:51,730
Speaker 1: to be a mum was to have them. So that's

1116
01:03:51,730 --> 01:03:54,690
Speaker 1: why I was looking for this elusive prince charming and

1117
01:03:54,850 --> 01:03:59,290
Speaker 1: at thirty, retrospectively, I was just so desperate to get

1118
01:03:59,290 --> 01:04:02,530
Speaker 1: on with it. You know, maybe the gut feelings that

1119
01:04:02,570 --> 01:04:06,010
Speaker 1: I had that it was wrong, I ignored them because I

1120
01:04:06,090 --> 01:04:09,610
Speaker 1: just wanted a baby daddy so much, didn't want a relationship,

1121
01:04:09,650 --> 01:04:11,650
Speaker 1: wanted a baby daddy. Didn't know what a good relationship

1122
01:04:11,690 --> 01:04:13,930
Speaker 1: would feel like, so at least that was a different

1123
01:04:13,970 --> 01:04:17,130
Speaker 1: feeling to all the other ones. I've never been happier

1124
01:04:17,490 --> 01:04:20,170
Speaker 1: than I am now since the day I was pregnant.

1125
01:04:20,490 --> 01:04:22,970
Speaker 1: Like I don't have any medication, I stopped medication to

1126
01:04:22,970 --> 01:04:26,570
Speaker 1: do IVF. But from the day I got pregnant, I

1127
01:04:26,610 --> 01:04:30,090
Speaker 1: haven't had a bad day. There have been bad moments,

1128
01:04:30,130 --> 01:04:33,370
Speaker 1: bad things have happened. It've literally not woken up feeling

1129
01:04:33,370 --> 01:04:35,530
Speaker 1: bad and gone to bed feeling bad. I can't even

1130
01:04:35,570 --> 01:04:37,610
Speaker 1: imagine what that feels like, and I hope to never

1131
01:04:37,610 --> 01:04:41,770
Speaker 1: feel like that again. But it never. No matter what

1132
01:04:42,010 --> 01:04:46,090
Speaker 1: terrible things my daughter has done, how many tantrums she's thrown,

1133
01:04:46,650 --> 01:04:52,090
Speaker 1: I feel nothing but just joy to be alive. I

1134
01:04:52,170 --> 01:04:57,850
Speaker 1: now use my experience to help other people, and so

1135
01:04:59,130 --> 01:05:01,930
Speaker 1: maybe you know that was my place in the world.

1136
01:05:02,650 --> 01:05:04,610
Speaker 1: I don't think that these sorts of things have to happen,

1137
01:05:05,330 --> 01:05:09,290
Speaker 1: and I don't think I hope that it's happening less

1138
01:05:09,330 --> 01:05:12,890
Speaker 1: and less. That women are becoming more the more podcasts

1139
01:05:12,930 --> 01:05:15,970
Speaker 1: they listen to, the more articles they read, they become

1140
01:05:16,010 --> 01:05:18,450
Speaker 1: more aware of it. And I think society is evolving

1141
01:05:19,370 --> 01:05:22,170
Speaker 1: so that you can just say I feel like my

1142
01:05:22,250 --> 01:05:24,050
Speaker 1: gut is off and this is wrong and I'm going

1143
01:05:24,090 --> 01:05:26,330
Speaker 1: to end it. And we've become better at accepting that

1144
01:05:26,490 --> 01:05:29,770
Speaker 1: as the excuse to cancel weddings or to not go

1145
01:05:29,850 --> 01:05:32,850
Speaker 1: on dates. And so I guess I'm part of shaping

1146
01:05:32,890 --> 01:05:36,370
Speaker 1: that narrative, a new narrative for women to empower them more,

1147
01:05:36,410 --> 01:05:38,770
Speaker 1: and that's nice.

1148
01:05:42,970 --> 01:05:45,090
Speaker 2: If you or anyone you know is a victim of

1149
01:05:45,130 --> 01:05:48,690
Speaker 2: domestic violence, you can visit one eight hundred Respect dot

1150
01:05:48,810 --> 01:05:52,410
Speaker 2: org dot Au or call one eight hundred Respect, a

1151
01:05:52,530 --> 01:05:57,290
Speaker 2: confidential information, counseling and support service for people impacted by domestic,

1152
01:05:57,450 --> 01:06:05,570
Speaker 2: family or sexual violence. Everyone Has an X is a

1153
01:06:05,610 --> 01:06:08,570
Speaker 2: Minti Media production and proudly part of the Mum of

1154
01:06:08,650 --> 01:06:12,090
Speaker 2: MEA network. Is written and narrated by Me You Love

1155
01:06:12,290 --> 01:06:14,970
Speaker 2: and produced by Linda Scott. If you have a story

1156
01:06:15,010 --> 01:06:18,490
Speaker 2: you'd like to share, email podcast at momamea dot com

1157
01:06:18,610 --> 01:06:21,330
Speaker 2: dot au. You can support us by following the show

1158
01:06:21,330 --> 01:06:24,490
Speaker 2: in your favorite podcast app and leaving a five star review.

1159
01:06:24,770 --> 01:06:28,170
Speaker 2: We'll see you for the next episode.