WEBVTT - Jess Cattelly Turned a Third Date Into a Swingers Empire 0:00:09.645 --> 0:00:13.085 She said, you're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:13.885 --> 0:00:16.885 Mama Miya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.885 --> 0:00:18.685 that this podcast is recorded on. 0:00:18.925 --> 0:00:20.845 The way that I see it is we have like 0:00:20.925 --> 0:00:23.565 our swinging relationship and then we can open that up 0:00:23.805 --> 0:00:25.165 and have like our primary partner. 0:00:25.165 --> 0:00:27.005 So Lawrence was my primary partner, and. 0:00:27.005 --> 0:00:30.925 I was exploring my sexuality with both women and men. 0:00:31.325 --> 0:00:34.125 I had a girlfriend and I had a couple boyfriends 0:00:34.165 --> 0:00:35.165 at the time too. 0:00:36.285 --> 0:00:40.925 Hello, I'm Katelinebrook on today's No Filter. I'm talking to 0:00:41.205 --> 0:00:46.325 Jess Katelly. Today's conversation is about a world most of 0:00:46.445 --> 0:00:50.685 us have only ever heard whispers about. It's the world 0:00:50.805 --> 0:00:55.245 of swingers clubs. When she was just twenty, Jess Kittlly 0:00:55.285 --> 0:00:58.245 went on a third date that would change her life. 0:00:59.085 --> 0:01:04.245 Her date, a man named Lawrence, suggested that they open 0:01:04.325 --> 0:01:06.045 a swingers club together. 0:01:06.205 --> 0:01:07.725 And she said yes. 0:01:08.525 --> 0:01:12.445 A decade later, that club, Our Secret Spot, has become 0:01:12.445 --> 0:01:16.525 one of Australia's best known spaces for people exploring sex, 0:01:16.725 --> 0:01:22.725 desire and connection in unconventional ways. Jess now runs it 0:01:22.765 --> 0:01:26.205 with her husband Jamie, and together they've built a business 0:01:26.245 --> 0:01:32.085 that challenges notions of shame that celebrates consent and invites 0:01:32.285 --> 0:01:36.765 adults to be radically honest about what they want. This 0:01:36.845 --> 0:01:39.165 is the story of how a twenty year old retail 0:01:39.285 --> 0:01:43.885 manager became the co founder of a thriving sex positive 0:01:43.925 --> 0:01:48.085 community and what it's really like behind the closed doors 0:01:48.205 --> 0:01:54.325 of a swingers club. This is Jess Ktlly, Jess Katelly, 0:01:55.045 --> 0:01:59.525 Welcome to No Filter. Thank you, an appropriately named show. 0:01:59.685 --> 0:02:02.205 I think given the subject matter and what we're going 0:02:02.205 --> 0:02:06.125 to talk about today, which is of course you and 0:02:06.885 --> 0:02:12.405 I'm struck by what are remarkable person you must have 0:02:12.565 --> 0:02:16.805 been and still are. See if I've got this right, 0:02:16.965 --> 0:02:21.005 So you're twenty years old. This is ten years ago. 0:02:21.485 --> 0:02:23.405 Yeah, just a little bit over ten. 0:02:23.765 --> 0:02:27.925 Okay, all right, but you're on your third date with 0:02:28.045 --> 0:02:32.445 a guy called Lawrence yep, and he says to you, 0:02:34.125 --> 0:02:36.045 let's start a swingers club. 0:02:36.765 --> 0:02:39.445 Yeah, okay. 0:02:39.645 --> 0:02:42.525 So I'm I think a lot of people would be 0:02:42.685 --> 0:02:45.525 like if we had that expression ten years ago, they 0:02:45.525 --> 0:02:49.085 would have been like, red flag, red flag it. But 0:02:49.365 --> 0:02:54.525 you saw and heard opportunity. Yeah. 0:02:54.565 --> 0:03:01.845 Look, I clearly didn't understand what something crazy was because I, 0:03:02.165 --> 0:03:04.165 like you said, I saw an opportunity, but I also 0:03:04.285 --> 0:03:08.125 saw an area of growth that I wanted to learn about, 0:03:08.365 --> 0:03:12.605 and I didn't actually have a full understanding on what swinging. 0:03:12.285 --> 0:03:13.565 All the lifestyle was yet. 0:03:13.685 --> 0:03:18.805 So being presented with an opportunity to both grow mentally 0:03:19.125 --> 0:03:23.285 and also experience some fun physical things, I was very 0:03:23.365 --> 0:03:26.925 much on board. I was a very proactive twenty year old, 0:03:26.965 --> 0:03:31.045 as it sings, and very into a new adventures. So 0:03:31.845 --> 0:03:34.565 back in the day, my mentality, which is still my mentality, 0:03:34.765 --> 0:03:37.725 is grab every adventure that you can and continue with it. 0:03:37.885 --> 0:03:40.765 So it was a very big adventure and it's thankfully 0:03:40.765 --> 0:03:42.805 being one of the best adventures that I've gone on. 0:03:43.365 --> 0:03:46.605 Tell me a little bit about your family background, because 0:03:46.765 --> 0:03:50.245 I think the belief would be that you must have 0:03:50.325 --> 0:03:54.685 come from a very unconventional background to be this open 0:03:54.965 --> 0:03:56.045 sexually open. 0:03:56.565 --> 0:04:00.725 So I came from a very normal and very basic 0:04:00.885 --> 0:04:04.525 style family. So we went religious, but we did everything 0:04:04.965 --> 0:04:07.685 every normal family does. You know, have Sunday dinner together, 0:04:08.325 --> 0:04:11.965 I did after school activities. I was an exceptional in school, 0:04:11.965 --> 0:04:14.485 but I did school. We all had friends. 0:04:14.725 --> 0:04:15.605 There was nothing. 0:04:15.485 --> 0:04:20.245 Really sexually proactive or physically or mentally proactive that I 0:04:20.365 --> 0:04:23.125 did as a family. I actually didn't end up telling 0:04:23.165 --> 0:04:25.565 my family that I opened a swingers club until two 0:04:25.605 --> 0:04:28.205 years into running now, so I kind of. 0:04:28.285 --> 0:04:30.125 Kept that a little bit of a secret. 0:04:30.525 --> 0:04:33.885 When we started being twenty, I think I was already 0:04:33.885 --> 0:04:36.725 a bit of a black sheep, just being so outgoing 0:04:36.805 --> 0:04:39.725 and so over the top and continuing to do all 0:04:39.725 --> 0:04:42.325 these big adventure stuff that I didn't really want to. 0:04:43.045 --> 0:04:45.565 I guess worry my family that I was in something 0:04:45.645 --> 0:04:47.445 that might have been a bit too deep or a 0:04:47.525 --> 0:04:50.245 bit too full on until I felt like it had 0:04:50.285 --> 0:04:54.165 some established legs and it was there to continue growing, 0:04:54.725 --> 0:04:57.085 but yeah, to use into opening the club. That's when 0:04:57.085 --> 0:04:59.165 I sat down with my family and discussed it. So 0:05:00.325 --> 0:05:03.245 nothing really stuck out from my childhood or from my 0:05:03.325 --> 0:05:06.245 family life that made me pursue opening the club. 0:05:06.925 --> 0:05:09.485 What work were you doing when you met Lawrence and 0:05:09.525 --> 0:05:10.445 how did you meet him? 0:05:10.765 --> 0:05:12.805 Lawrence and I met when we both were working at 0:05:12.885 --> 0:05:16.165 David Jones. I was a retail operations manager for Mimco, 0:05:16.485 --> 0:05:20.565 so he was a security guard at David Jones. Came 0:05:20.645 --> 0:05:23.365 past one day to roupt a really cute little rose 0:05:23.485 --> 0:05:26.485 on the desk and wrote a note asking to go 0:05:26.525 --> 0:05:29.005 out on a date. I thought that was really sweet 0:05:29.005 --> 0:05:31.485 and really cute, and then the next week we went on. 0:05:31.405 --> 0:05:34.565 A date, and so that was the first of the 0:05:35.005 --> 0:05:39.605 three dates, and then on the third I can't even 0:05:39.645 --> 0:05:42.445 imagine how this comes up in conversation. 0:05:43.525 --> 0:05:44.645 Paint the picture for us. 0:05:44.805 --> 0:05:49.885 Yeah, so Lawrence is very good at I guess, portraying 0:05:50.325 --> 0:05:54.325 a very confident and calming way of discussing things. He 0:05:55.045 --> 0:05:57.485 on the first date told me that he was a swinger, 0:05:57.645 --> 0:05:59.685 told me about the lifestyle that he'd been living with 0:05:59.725 --> 0:06:02.765 his ex and how he wanted to continue pursuing that. 0:06:03.325 --> 0:06:05.205 Being twenty, I thought, this is great. I get to 0:06:05.205 --> 0:06:09.565 have sex with multiple people. I can't wait. On the 0:06:09.605 --> 0:06:12.445 cusp of the beginning part, so and got the brief 0:06:12.485 --> 0:06:15.885 talk about swinging. I got all the consent talk, but 0:06:15.925 --> 0:06:18.205 then I didn't get a lot of They're like how 0:06:18.285 --> 0:06:20.725 much it can evolve into your life and whatnot. I 0:06:20.725 --> 0:06:22.645 guess it's a first date, so it was just a 0:06:22.685 --> 0:06:26.885 brief touching on everything. On our second date, it actually 0:06:26.885 --> 0:06:30.205 happened to be his birthday, so we went out for 0:06:30.245 --> 0:06:33.245 a drink and a dinner. And then on the third date, 0:06:33.325 --> 0:06:36.165 he took me tike heir and said, hey, like, let's 0:06:36.205 --> 0:06:40.165 plan out owning a swingers club together, pick out furniture, 0:06:40.325 --> 0:06:41.445 and let's discuss. 0:06:41.125 --> 0:06:42.325 What the layout will look like. 0:06:42.485 --> 0:06:47.605 So we really fast tracked our relationship both mentally and physically, 0:06:48.245 --> 0:06:51.885 because within three months after that, we were signing on 0:06:51.965 --> 0:06:55.325 the contracts to take over the first club and start 0:06:55.365 --> 0:06:56.485 putting all the furniture in. 0:06:56.565 --> 0:06:57.845 So we went really quickly. 0:06:58.365 --> 0:07:01.565 So at this time, so you're in a committed relationship 0:07:01.565 --> 0:07:03.845 with Lawrence, obviously you're like, this guy's great. 0:07:04.405 --> 0:07:06.205 Yeah, all the lights are green. 0:07:06.685 --> 0:07:13.485 Yeah, but your family must have been like, what kind 0:07:13.525 --> 0:07:14.805 of business are you setting out? 0:07:15.045 --> 0:07:19.325 What's happening Somewhat, So I continue to keep my full 0:07:19.365 --> 0:07:22.485 time job still at Mimco as a retail operations manager, 0:07:22.525 --> 0:07:25.005 so I was doing the forty to fifty hours of 0:07:25.005 --> 0:07:27.765 that a week on top of trying to set up 0:07:28.245 --> 0:07:30.805 the new club at the same time. So I would 0:07:30.885 --> 0:07:33.285 go down in my full outfit in my worksuit and 0:07:33.285 --> 0:07:35.525 my white blood and up blouse and go and paint 0:07:35.565 --> 0:07:37.885 walls during my lunch break and then walk back to work. 0:07:38.085 --> 0:07:42.925 So my families only knew about the Mimco side of things, 0:07:42.965 --> 0:07:45.405 and they didn't know about me owning the club until 0:07:45.485 --> 0:07:46.125 the two years in. 0:07:46.685 --> 0:07:50.805 Yeah, right, So you have at this point like never 0:07:51.045 --> 0:07:53.565 even set foot in a swingers club. 0:07:53.685 --> 0:07:55.165 Or a swingers party. 0:07:55.485 --> 0:07:58.445 Not at all, So my first time in a club 0:07:58.565 --> 0:07:59.085 was my own. 0:07:59.565 --> 0:08:02.845 My first swingers party, I guess was more like a 0:08:02.965 --> 0:08:05.605 dress up party rather than a swingers party. There was 0:08:05.645 --> 0:08:07.125 a lot of swingers there, so I got to have 0:08:07.165 --> 0:08:10.005 conversations with them and talk to them about just the 0:08:10.085 --> 0:08:12.685 life and their lifestyle and how they live it. Because 0:08:13.085 --> 0:08:16.365 all the knowledge that I have from swinging came from Lawrence. 0:08:16.405 --> 0:08:19.685 So I'd done a bit of research before we opened 0:08:19.685 --> 0:08:22.005 the club into what people were looking for in a 0:08:22.045 --> 0:08:24.845 swingers club, and a lot of my online searches was 0:08:24.885 --> 0:08:29.965 female friendly, sexy, non sleezy, and I felt as a 0:08:29.965 --> 0:08:32.405 twenty year old I was able to portray that, and 0:08:32.605 --> 0:08:35.125 Lawrence didn't come across sleezy either. He doesn't have any 0:08:35.125 --> 0:08:38.445 of that sleezy creepy vibes. So I think we worked 0:08:38.445 --> 0:08:41.165 really well as a team to open that together. So 0:08:41.245 --> 0:08:43.925 it wasn't not going to a club before or not 0:08:43.965 --> 0:08:45.765 going to a swing's party. I didn't feel like hindered, 0:08:45.805 --> 0:08:47.565 but I think it also gave me a newer perspective 0:08:47.605 --> 0:08:49.885 to be able to open a club that no one 0:08:49.885 --> 0:08:53.125 else had seen or done, because I didn't base it 0:08:53.125 --> 0:08:53.805 off anything else. 0:08:53.805 --> 0:08:54.605 That i'd seen before. 0:08:55.165 --> 0:08:58.645 Yeah, because your focus was very like you said, you 0:08:58.685 --> 0:09:01.525 wanted it to be female friendly and you wanted it 0:09:01.565 --> 0:09:04.925 to be a place where women would feel free to 0:09:05.085 --> 0:09:10.245 go and be seen and participate. Yeah, how did you 0:09:10.565 --> 0:09:13.245 know what that meant? Were you just guided by what you. 0:09:13.165 --> 0:09:13.885 Would have liked? 0:09:14.485 --> 0:09:16.165 I think a lot of it was guided by what 0:09:16.205 --> 0:09:19.845 I'd like and what I would feel comfortable in that environment. 0:09:20.005 --> 0:09:22.845 Being twenty as well, I was going out to nightclubs 0:09:22.845 --> 0:09:26.565 with friends and I hated them. I'd always felt people 0:09:26.565 --> 0:09:29.525 were looking or they it was slimy, I'd feel people's 0:09:30.165 --> 0:09:31.165 energies were a bit off. 0:09:31.205 --> 0:09:32.565 It was always very predatory. 0:09:32.805 --> 0:09:35.605 So I wanted to make sure that if we opened 0:09:35.645 --> 0:09:39.405 a venue where sex was a possibility, I wanted to 0:09:39.445 --> 0:09:42.965 make it feel so safe that anyone could come in 0:09:43.125 --> 0:09:47.285 and not feel obliged to have to participate. So ensuring 0:09:47.325 --> 0:09:50.245 that there was areas where people could have time to chill, 0:09:50.485 --> 0:09:54.925 times to have conversations, safe areas where it was in 0:09:55.005 --> 0:09:56.765 the open, so if you sat down on a couch 0:09:56.845 --> 0:09:58.845 there was a lot of space around you so people 0:09:58.845 --> 0:10:03.885 could see. And also just creating things like staff members 0:10:03.885 --> 0:10:06.565 who were there to look after you rather than staff 0:10:06.565 --> 0:10:08.525 members who just kept feeding you drinks all night. 0:10:08.645 --> 0:10:10.525 So just a little things that I know at a bar. 0:10:10.965 --> 0:10:13.485 Buttonders are great, but they can't help you in every 0:10:13.525 --> 0:10:16.965 situation where I wanted to ensure that we had all 0:10:17.005 --> 0:10:20.605 of these options around for women and for men just 0:10:20.645 --> 0:10:21.885 to feel safe in a space. 0:10:22.685 --> 0:10:25.765 So when you talk about staff members when you started, 0:10:25.965 --> 0:10:29.045 so when you first opened it was called our secret 0:10:29.085 --> 0:10:32.205 spot then yeah, yeah, and then how did. 0:10:32.165 --> 0:10:32.965 You open it? 0:10:33.085 --> 0:10:33.205 Like? 0:10:33.245 --> 0:10:36.925 What was the nature for someone like me who's never 0:10:37.485 --> 0:10:42.045 set foot in a swingers club, Although I've been in 0:10:42.085 --> 0:10:45.925 clubs where they've got these dungeons and stuff, you know, 0:10:45.965 --> 0:10:49.805 where they've got a bit of BBSM staff, But who 0:10:49.845 --> 0:10:52.365 were the staff and what did it look like? 0:10:52.765 --> 0:10:55.765 So our opening night was complete and not a chaos. 0:10:56.285 --> 0:10:59.045 We also unforeseen to us looking at the dates, I 0:10:59.045 --> 0:11:01.165 think we were so just excited to open the club. 0:11:01.245 --> 0:11:02.245 We opened on Mardi Gras. 0:11:02.565 --> 0:11:06.885 So not only did we have the absolute chaos of 0:11:07.165 --> 0:11:10.125 being in Darlinghurst and having Mardi Gras around, we also 0:11:10.285 --> 0:11:12.845 had ninety people trying to come and see this new 0:11:12.885 --> 0:11:15.565 swingers club that had just opened up all at once, 0:11:15.725 --> 0:11:19.805 so it was people everywhere. We were nailing things to 0:11:19.845 --> 0:11:22.325 the world just before it opened. The staff at the 0:11:22.365 --> 0:11:24.765 time we'd hired a few people, but a lot of 0:11:24.805 --> 0:11:28.205 them were friends of Lawrence or friends of the lifestyle 0:11:28.245 --> 0:11:30.765 that we kind of built over that three months, who 0:11:30.805 --> 0:11:36.245 were confident and comfortable within a very I guess very 0:11:36.325 --> 0:11:39.165 field environment full of sexually active people. 0:11:39.365 --> 0:11:41.845 So I guess also having them as friends as. 0:11:41.725 --> 0:11:44.005 Well helped us to kind of work out the tweaks 0:11:44.045 --> 0:11:47.245 and get honest feedback on what we could improve on. 0:11:48.205 --> 0:11:50.925 However, I find swingers being so honest. 0:11:51.205 --> 0:11:53.325 They were very and more than happy to give us 0:11:53.365 --> 0:11:56.765 honest feedback then and there, so anything that we did need. 0:11:56.685 --> 0:11:58.885 To improve from the club was improved on pretty quickly. 0:11:59.285 --> 0:12:03.325 But I think any business using friends and hiring friends 0:12:03.365 --> 0:12:06.845 is great. But hiring friends can also be a problem, Yes, 0:12:07.005 --> 0:12:08.605 when you have to address something with. 0:12:08.605 --> 0:12:09.725 Them, yes, Ken. 0:12:10.525 --> 0:12:14.445 Thankfully, a lot of this was temporary, so our friends 0:12:14.485 --> 0:12:16.645 were in just until we could find our feet and 0:12:16.725 --> 0:12:19.525 find the right staffing. A lot of the friends that 0:12:19.565 --> 0:12:22.405 we did hire would only do one or two nights 0:12:22.525 --> 0:12:25.045 a month. At the time, we were only opening on 0:12:25.045 --> 0:12:28.085 a Friday and a Saturday, and for the first couple 0:12:28.125 --> 0:12:31.085 of years we weren't getting an excessive amount of people, 0:12:31.205 --> 0:12:33.645 so it was filling up. We were still working out 0:12:33.685 --> 0:12:36.085 what type of events to host to get it to 0:12:36.125 --> 0:12:38.725 fill up. So a lot of the nights for the 0:12:38.765 --> 0:12:41.085 first couple of years it was mainly Lawrence and myself 0:12:41.125 --> 0:12:43.965 working from open to clothes and then having one other 0:12:44.005 --> 0:12:47.325 staff member who we'd hired, or another staff member that 0:12:47.325 --> 0:12:48.925 we eventually hired as a manager. 0:12:49.565 --> 0:12:53.525 So you said that your first time going to like 0:12:53.645 --> 0:12:57.165 swinging was in your own club. Did that happen at 0:12:57.165 --> 0:13:00.005 the opening or did it happen down the track? 0:13:00.125 --> 0:13:01.525 When was your first time? 0:13:01.885 --> 0:13:04.445 So my first time as a patron was at the 0:13:04.445 --> 0:13:08.125 club and it was an event. We called it Jessica's Men, 0:13:08.605 --> 0:13:10.605 So it was an event where we had topless waiters 0:13:10.965 --> 0:13:15.445 and it was female centric for the beginning part because 0:13:15.765 --> 0:13:18.485 me identifying as a bisexual woman, I really do like 0:13:18.525 --> 0:13:20.285 the energy of women, so I wanted to have the 0:13:20.285 --> 0:13:23.685 beginning night where it was just women and adjust their 0:13:23.765 --> 0:13:27.085 energy and then partners or men could come in afterwards. 0:13:27.085 --> 0:13:28.805 So the first two hours as women, then the men 0:13:28.885 --> 0:13:29.245 came in. 0:13:29.765 --> 0:13:33.325 That was my first time participating and being a patron 0:13:33.405 --> 0:13:36.445 to see it from that side of things. It was 0:13:36.565 --> 0:13:39.765 very interesting because there was definitely little stuff that as 0:13:40.045 --> 0:13:43.125 a patron, I didn't realize how many things go in 0:13:43.325 --> 0:13:46.205 and play into your mind of feeling comfortable and having 0:13:46.245 --> 0:13:49.525 to have these conversations and making sure that you know 0:13:49.805 --> 0:13:52.005 you asked before you sat down, or making sure the 0:13:52.005 --> 0:13:53.765 person next to you was comfortable and they're not in 0:13:53.765 --> 0:13:56.845 the middle of another discussion, whereas when you're working, you're 0:13:56.885 --> 0:13:59.085 just trying to make sure you're like, not seen and 0:13:59.125 --> 0:14:00.685 trying to clean up around people. 0:14:01.245 --> 0:14:02.725 So it was very different. 0:14:03.165 --> 0:14:06.325 It did help me understand a lot about where things 0:14:06.325 --> 0:14:08.965 were positioned in the club and how nerve racking it 0:14:09.005 --> 0:14:11.525 can be. I take my hat off and still to 0:14:11.565 --> 0:14:14.205 this day to anyone that comes into this sort of environment, 0:14:14.565 --> 0:14:15.725 it is daunting. 0:14:15.405 --> 0:14:16.765 It's hard, it's scary. 0:14:16.925 --> 0:14:19.605 Bit I think that nervous energy really helps you enjoy 0:14:19.645 --> 0:14:22.205 your night even more when you are able to break 0:14:22.245 --> 0:14:24.845 down that barrier of nerve and come through the doors 0:14:24.885 --> 0:14:25.845 to experience it. 0:14:26.525 --> 0:14:27.645 Well, what happens. 0:14:27.645 --> 0:14:31.725 Do most people come through on their own or do 0:14:31.805 --> 0:14:33.885 they come through as part of a couple. 0:14:34.285 --> 0:14:37.645 So currently we sit about ninety percent couples and ten 0:14:37.645 --> 0:14:41.445 percent singles. We normally get about five single men per event. 0:14:42.005 --> 0:14:44.965 This has been curated by us, just because we feel. 0:14:44.685 --> 0:14:48.405 That energy of more men within the venue does shift 0:14:48.485 --> 0:14:52.085 how it goes. We also predominantly promote a lot of 0:14:52.125 --> 0:14:55.085 our events four couples, but a lot of couples do 0:14:55.165 --> 0:14:58.685 come with other couples or other singles, so we find 0:14:58.965 --> 0:15:02.005 that's kind of why we've shifted towards a lot of couples, 0:15:02.045 --> 0:15:05.365 But we do have designated events for just singles to. 0:15:05.365 --> 0:15:09.205 Mingle right, and it tends to be in all matter 0:15:09.325 --> 0:15:13.245 as sexual. Really you build it and they will come 0:15:15.125 --> 0:15:19.685 in every way, but the men really come, yes, So 0:15:19.725 --> 0:15:21.685 you don't want the women to be overwhelmed by the 0:15:21.765 --> 0:15:23.365 mean correct. 0:15:23.365 --> 0:15:26.285 Yes, exactly. Men definitely have a lot more of a 0:15:26.365 --> 0:15:31.805 dominant energy. So being able to control the limit of 0:15:31.845 --> 0:15:36.525 how many men we have per event really helps relieve 0:15:36.565 --> 0:15:39.045 a lot of stress and a lot of anxiety for 0:15:39.125 --> 0:15:42.405 couples and singles. Where every single male that does come 0:15:42.445 --> 0:15:46.085 into our event is vetted, so we ask them just 0:15:46.405 --> 0:15:48.685 basic questions like have you been before, what are you 0:15:48.725 --> 0:15:51.965 bringing to the table, what does consent means, So just 0:15:52.005 --> 0:15:55.525 the basics that we really need them to understand. And 0:15:55.845 --> 0:15:58.405 a lot of the men that do come have either 0:15:58.445 --> 0:16:01.445 been a couple before they've come to other events, and 0:16:01.445 --> 0:16:05.565 they're very very calm and very good at adding rather 0:16:05.645 --> 0:16:07.605 than creating chaos. 0:16:07.925 --> 0:16:12.645 Because of course you talked about consent earlier, how do 0:16:12.725 --> 0:16:16.085 you brief people about that? Is there a when people 0:16:16.125 --> 0:16:19.165 first come. I know that you get a tour. I've 0:16:19.165 --> 0:16:22.445 heard your podcast that you do with Lawrence, and people 0:16:22.445 --> 0:16:26.405 are given a tour, and then how do you have 0:16:26.485 --> 0:16:28.405 that consent conversation with them? 0:16:28.885 --> 0:16:31.965 The way that we ensure that consent is delivered to 0:16:32.285 --> 0:16:35.125 everyone that turns up is that we always rely on 0:16:35.165 --> 0:16:39.045 telling people that consent is necessary. 0:16:38.525 --> 0:16:40.125 In all aspects of the club. 0:16:40.805 --> 0:16:43.845 So whether it's going up to have a conversation with somebody, 0:16:44.125 --> 0:16:46.365 we always say consent is sexy. So we try to 0:16:46.485 --> 0:16:49.085 use that as a way for people to have a 0:16:49.125 --> 0:16:53.445 first time conversation. On newbie nights as well, Laurence myself 0:16:53.485 --> 0:16:55.325 will always get up and do a talk to give 0:16:55.365 --> 0:16:57.765 people some one liners, some ins and outs of the club, 0:16:57.845 --> 0:17:00.965 and just basics on what consent means and what it 0:17:01.005 --> 0:17:04.525 can do for your relationship or for that scenario that's happening. 0:17:05.085 --> 0:17:07.525 I think also with the lifestyle, we get a lot 0:17:07.525 --> 0:17:11.045 of well educated people who before they even turn up 0:17:11.085 --> 0:17:13.925 a lot of people do research, so we're very fortunate 0:17:13.965 --> 0:17:17.205 in that aspect where people like to do their own 0:17:17.485 --> 0:17:21.205 digging into the lifestyle and what is necessary to ensure 0:17:21.205 --> 0:17:23.565 that they have a really good experience. And so if 0:17:23.605 --> 0:17:26.325 they come to the club with questions and normally questions 0:17:26.365 --> 0:17:29.085 around what's your best way of asking for consent rather 0:17:29.165 --> 0:17:30.165 than what is consent? 0:17:31.005 --> 0:17:34.285 So you talked about newbie nights, So say I'm a 0:17:34.325 --> 0:17:37.925 newbie and I'm coming, what one liner are you going 0:17:37.965 --> 0:17:38.405 to give me? 0:17:39.085 --> 0:17:42.245 My one liner is come looking for an experience, not 0:17:42.285 --> 0:17:48.125 an expectation. So come in looking to experience a new conversation, 0:17:48.365 --> 0:17:52.445 a new friendship, a new moment, and ensure that all 0:17:52.805 --> 0:17:55.485 conversations that you have, no matter whether it be small 0:17:55.605 --> 0:17:59.245 or big, starts with asking if everyone's okay with something 0:17:59.245 --> 0:18:01.125 that you're doing, or if you are people would like 0:18:01.165 --> 0:18:03.405 to have a conversation with you. And I think when 0:18:03.485 --> 0:18:06.605 you lead or you start without, people just automatically go 0:18:06.725 --> 0:18:09.285 into asking for consent for even the littlest thing like 0:18:09.405 --> 0:18:10.365 touching someone's shoulder. 0:18:10.925 --> 0:18:14.205 So it's a personal for some I guess it's a 0:18:14.245 --> 0:18:18.925 personal connection as well, and for others it's just a 0:18:19.005 --> 0:18:22.685 purely sexual thing. They're like arouse and they're like, I 0:18:22.685 --> 0:18:24.485 want to be a part of whatever's going on. 0:18:24.965 --> 0:18:29.405 Yeah, it's a very lucky lifestyle where me personally, like 0:18:29.485 --> 0:18:32.285 I've gained wonderful friendships from this, where some of my 0:18:32.325 --> 0:18:35.485 best friends have been because of this lifestyle. But then 0:18:35.525 --> 0:18:39.285 I've also gained friends where we have a solely sexual 0:18:39.365 --> 0:18:42.525 relationship where I will come in or they'll come into 0:18:42.565 --> 0:18:45.285 the relationship with me my hubby and we just have 0:18:45.365 --> 0:18:47.085 sex with them, or we you know, we will go 0:18:47.085 --> 0:18:49.325 out for a drink, we'll have a really like light 0:18:50.045 --> 0:18:52.365 fun conversation and then we end up having sex. 0:18:52.845 --> 0:18:54.645 And then there's friends who were in the. 0:18:54.605 --> 0:18:57.445 Lifestyle together and we've never had sex together, but I 0:18:57.525 --> 0:19:00.005 have some of the most deep and meaningful conversations with them, 0:19:00.005 --> 0:19:02.645 and they've helped me through situations that I just I 0:19:02.685 --> 0:19:06.685 need that sounding board. So I think because a lifestyle 0:19:07.285 --> 0:19:11.165 is so broad in how you can perceive it, you're 0:19:11.205 --> 0:19:14.725 able to build different types of friendships and relationships and 0:19:14.765 --> 0:19:16.645 it isn't always just about sex. 0:19:17.325 --> 0:19:21.525 So you and Lawrence were building so it's twofold really 0:19:21.565 --> 0:19:26.165 because you were building this business together and you've obviously 0:19:26.445 --> 0:19:31.245 found something that's resonating in the market, a market that 0:19:31.325 --> 0:19:33.445 really probably you didn't even know was going to be 0:19:33.525 --> 0:19:36.205 as big as it was, or that people would be 0:19:36.205 --> 0:19:39.245 as open to it as they've proven to be. But 0:19:39.325 --> 0:19:43.525 you're also running your relationship with him, yes, and you're 0:19:43.565 --> 0:19:45.005 swinging yes. Uh. 0:19:45.845 --> 0:19:47.605 Like I said, I don't like to do things in 0:19:47.645 --> 0:19:50.765 halves or slowly as it appears. I'm very good at 0:19:50.805 --> 0:19:53.445 throwing myself into the deep end, and I think that 0:19:53.485 --> 0:19:57.205 actually helped me learn quicker and also be a bit 0:19:57.205 --> 0:20:00.965 more confident in the way that I had these conversations 0:20:01.005 --> 0:20:03.565 to learn about what I wanted from a relationship, what 0:20:03.645 --> 0:20:06.445 I wanted from the club, and what I wanted for myself. 0:20:06.965 --> 0:20:08.405 Lawrence and I are. 0:20:08.405 --> 0:20:10.725 Still to this day were good friends, I seem like 0:20:10.765 --> 0:20:13.045 three times a week because we worked together so often. 0:20:13.485 --> 0:20:16.525 I think because of that, building our relationship together at 0:20:16.525 --> 0:20:19.805 the beginning and building the club together, we had really good, 0:20:19.845 --> 0:20:23.005 in depth and open conversations that it allowed us to 0:20:23.285 --> 0:20:28.525 continue to grow both as a relationship and as a business. 0:20:30.085 --> 0:20:34.605 After the break, Jess shares what her first experience of 0:20:34.685 --> 0:20:45.085 swinging was like because he was experienced in this lifestyle 0:20:46.285 --> 0:20:47.165 but you weren't. 0:20:48.765 --> 0:20:50.685 But you do seem like you took to it like 0:20:50.725 --> 0:20:51.645 a duck to water. 0:20:53.925 --> 0:20:57.565 But did you have any issues initially because of what 0:20:57.645 --> 0:21:02.805 I considered to be a natural tendency to be territorial 0:21:02.805 --> 0:21:06.965 about the person that you are attracted to. Ye, did 0:21:07.005 --> 0:21:09.165 you have any issues like that when you started a 0:21:09.445 --> 0:21:12.365 the first time that you saw him with someone else, 0:21:12.445 --> 0:21:14.085