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Speaker 1: She said, you're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mama Miya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 3: The way that I see it is we have like

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Speaker 3: our swinging relationship and then we can open that up

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Speaker 3: and have like our primary partner.

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Speaker 2: So Lawrence was my primary partner, and.

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Speaker 3: I was exploring my sexuality with both women and men.

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Speaker 3: I had a girlfriend and I had a couple boyfriends

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Speaker 3: at the time too.

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Speaker 4: Hello, I'm Katelinebrook on today's No Filter. I'm talking to

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Speaker 4: Jess Katelly. Today's conversation is about a world most of

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Speaker 4: us have only ever heard whispers about. It's the world

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Speaker 4: of swingers clubs. When she was just twenty, Jess Kittlly

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Speaker 4: went on a third date that would change her life.

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Speaker 4: Her date, a man named Lawrence, suggested that they open

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Speaker 4: a swingers club together.

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Speaker 1: And she said yes.

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Speaker 4: A decade later, that club, Our Secret Spot, has become

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Speaker 4: one of Australia's best known spaces for people exploring sex,

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Speaker 4: desire and connection in unconventional ways. Jess now runs it

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Speaker 4: with her husband Jamie, and together they've built a business

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Speaker 4: that challenges notions of shame that celebrates consent and invites

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Speaker 4: adults to be radically honest about what they want. This

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Speaker 4: is the story of how a twenty year old retail

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Speaker 4: manager became the co founder of a thriving sex positive

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Speaker 4: community and what it's really like behind the closed doors

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Speaker 4: of a swingers club. This is Jess Ktlly, Jess Katelly,

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Speaker 4: Welcome to No Filter. Thank you, an appropriately named show.

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Speaker 4: I think given the subject matter and what we're going

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Speaker 4: to talk about today, which is of course you and

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Speaker 4: I'm struck by what are remarkable person you must have

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Speaker 4: been and still are. See if I've got this right,

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Speaker 4: So you're twenty years old. This is ten years ago.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just a little bit over ten.

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Speaker 4: Okay, all right, but you're on your third date with

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Speaker 4: a guy called Lawrence yep, and he says to you,

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Speaker 4: let's start a swingers club.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay.

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Speaker 4: So I'm I think a lot of people would be

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Speaker 4: like if we had that expression ten years ago, they

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Speaker 4: would have been like, red flag, red flag it. But

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Speaker 4: you saw and heard opportunity. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Look, I clearly didn't understand what something crazy was because I,

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Speaker 3: like you said, I saw an opportunity, but I also

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Speaker 3: saw an area of growth that I wanted to learn about,

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Speaker 3: and I didn't actually have a full understanding on what swinging.

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Speaker 2: All the lifestyle was yet.

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Speaker 3: So being presented with an opportunity to both grow mentally

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Speaker 3: and also experience some fun physical things, I was very

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Speaker 3: much on board. I was a very proactive twenty year old,

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Speaker 3: as it sings, and very into a new adventures. So

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Speaker 3: back in the day, my mentality, which is still my mentality,

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Speaker 3: is grab every adventure that you can and continue with it.

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Speaker 3: So it was a very big adventure and it's thankfully

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Speaker 3: being one of the best adventures that I've gone on.

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Speaker 4: Tell me a little bit about your family background, because

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Speaker 4: I think the belief would be that you must have

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Speaker 4: come from a very unconventional background to be this open

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Speaker 4: sexually open.

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Speaker 3: So I came from a very normal and very basic

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Speaker 3: style family. So we went religious, but we did everything

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Speaker 3: every normal family does. You know, have Sunday dinner together,

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Speaker 3: I did after school activities. I was an exceptional in school,

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Speaker 3: but I did school. We all had friends.

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Speaker 2: There was nothing.

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Speaker 3: Really sexually proactive or physically or mentally proactive that I

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Speaker 3: did as a family. I actually didn't end up telling

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Speaker 3: my family that I opened a swingers club until two

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Speaker 3: years into running now, so I kind of.

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Speaker 2: Kept that a little bit of a secret.

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Speaker 3: When we started being twenty, I think I was already

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Speaker 3: a bit of a black sheep, just being so outgoing

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Speaker 3: and so over the top and continuing to do all

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Speaker 3: these big adventure stuff that I didn't really want to.

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Speaker 3: I guess worry my family that I was in something

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Speaker 3: that might have been a bit too deep or a

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Speaker 3: bit too full on until I felt like it had

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Speaker 3: some established legs and it was there to continue growing,

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Speaker 3: but yeah, to use into opening the club. That's when

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Speaker 3: I sat down with my family and discussed it. So

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Speaker 3: nothing really stuck out from my childhood or from my

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Speaker 3: family life that made me pursue opening the club.

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Speaker 4: What work were you doing when you met Lawrence and

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Speaker 4: how did you meet him?

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Speaker 3: Lawrence and I met when we both were working at

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Speaker 3: David Jones. I was a retail operations manager for Mimco,

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Speaker 3: so he was a security guard at David Jones. Came

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Speaker 3: past one day to roupt a really cute little rose

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Speaker 3: on the desk and wrote a note asking to go

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Speaker 3: out on a date. I thought that was really sweet

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Speaker 3: and really cute, and then the next week we went on.

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Speaker 4: A date, and so that was the first of the

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Speaker 4: three dates, and then on the third I can't even

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Speaker 4: imagine how this comes up in conversation.

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Speaker 1: Paint the picture for us.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so Lawrence is very good at I guess, portraying

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Speaker 3: a very confident and calming way of discussing things. He

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Speaker 3: on the first date told me that he was a swinger,

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Speaker 3: told me about the lifestyle that he'd been living with

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Speaker 3: his ex and how he wanted to continue pursuing that.

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Speaker 3: Being twenty, I thought, this is great. I get to

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Speaker 3: have sex with multiple people. I can't wait. On the

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Speaker 3: cusp of the beginning part, so and got the brief

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Speaker 3: talk about swinging. I got all the consent talk, but

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Speaker 3: then I didn't get a lot of They're like how

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Speaker 3: much it can evolve into your life and whatnot. I

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Speaker 3: guess it's a first date, so it was just a

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Speaker 3: brief touching on everything. On our second date, it actually

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Speaker 3: happened to be his birthday, so we went out for

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Speaker 3: a drink and a dinner. And then on the third date,

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Speaker 3: he took me tike heir and said, hey, like, let's

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Speaker 3: plan out owning a swingers club together, pick out furniture,

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Speaker 3: and let's discuss.

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Speaker 2: What the layout will look like.

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Speaker 3: So we really fast tracked our relationship both mentally and physically,

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Speaker 3: because within three months after that, we were signing on

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Speaker 3: the contracts to take over the first club and start

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Speaker 3: putting all the furniture in.

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Speaker 2: So we went really quickly.

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Speaker 4: So at this time, so you're in a committed relationship

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Speaker 4: with Lawrence, obviously you're like, this guy's great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, all the lights are green.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but your family must have been like, what kind

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Speaker 4: of business are you setting out?

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Speaker 3: What's happening Somewhat, So I continue to keep my full

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Speaker 3: time job still at Mimco as a retail operations manager,

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Speaker 3: so I was doing the forty to fifty hours of

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Speaker 3: that a week on top of trying to set up

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Speaker 3: the new club at the same time. So I would

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Speaker 3: go down in my full outfit in my worksuit and

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Speaker 3: my white blood and up blouse and go and paint

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Speaker 3: walls during my lunch break and then walk back to work.

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Speaker 3: So my families only knew about the Mimco side of things,

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Speaker 3: and they didn't know about me owning the club until

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Speaker 3: the two years in.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, right, So you have at this point like never

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Speaker 4: even set foot in a swingers club.

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Speaker 1: Or a swingers party.

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Speaker 2: Not at all, So my first time in a club

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Speaker 2: was my own.

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Speaker 3: My first swingers party, I guess was more like a

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Speaker 3: dress up party rather than a swingers party. There was

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Speaker 3: a lot of swingers there, so I got to have

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Speaker 3: conversations with them and talk to them about just the

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Speaker 3: life and their lifestyle and how they live it. Because

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Speaker 3: all the knowledge that I have from swinging came from Lawrence.

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Speaker 3: So I'd done a bit of research before we opened

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Speaker 3: the club into what people were looking for in a

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Speaker 3: swingers club, and a lot of my online searches was

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Speaker 3: female friendly, sexy, non sleezy, and I felt as a

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Speaker 3: twenty year old I was able to portray that, and

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Speaker 3: Lawrence didn't come across sleezy either. He doesn't have any

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Speaker 3: of that sleezy creepy vibes. So I think we worked

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Speaker 3: really well as a team to open that together. So

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Speaker 3: it wasn't not going to a club before or not

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Speaker 3: going to a swing's party. I didn't feel like hindered,

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Speaker 3: but I think it also gave me a newer perspective

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Speaker 3: to be able to open a club that no one

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Speaker 3: else had seen or done, because I didn't base it

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Speaker 3: off anything else.

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Speaker 2: That i'd seen before.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because your focus was very like you said, you

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Speaker 4: wanted it to be female friendly and you wanted it

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Speaker 4: to be a place where women would feel free to

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Speaker 4: go and be seen and participate. Yeah, how did you

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Speaker 4: know what that meant? Were you just guided by what you.

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Speaker 1: Would have liked?

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of it was guided by what

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Speaker 3: I'd like and what I would feel comfortable in that environment.

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Speaker 3: Being twenty as well, I was going out to nightclubs

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Speaker 3: with friends and I hated them. I'd always felt people

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Speaker 3: were looking or they it was slimy, I'd feel people's

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Speaker 3: energies were a bit off.

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Speaker 2: It was always very predatory.

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Speaker 3: So I wanted to make sure that if we opened

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Speaker 3: a venue where sex was a possibility, I wanted to

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Speaker 3: make it feel so safe that anyone could come in

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Speaker 3: and not feel obliged to have to participate. So ensuring

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Speaker 3: that there was areas where people could have time to chill,

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Speaker 3: times to have conversations, safe areas where it was in

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Speaker 3: the open, so if you sat down on a couch

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Speaker 3: there was a lot of space around you so people

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Speaker 3: could see. And also just creating things like staff members

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Speaker 3: who were there to look after you rather than staff

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Speaker 3: members who just kept feeding you drinks all night.

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Speaker 2: So just a little things that I know at a bar.

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Speaker 3: Buttonders are great, but they can't help you in every

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Speaker 3: situation where I wanted to ensure that we had all

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Speaker 3: of these options around for women and for men just

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Speaker 3: to feel safe in a space.

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Speaker 4: So when you talk about staff members when you started,

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Speaker 4: so when you first opened it was called our secret

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Speaker 4: spot then yeah, yeah, and then how did.

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Speaker 1: You open it?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 4: What was the nature for someone like me who's never

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Speaker 4: set foot in a swingers club, Although I've been in

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Speaker 4: clubs where they've got these dungeons and stuff, you know,

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Speaker 4: where they've got a bit of BBSM staff, But who

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Speaker 4: were the staff and what did it look like?

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Speaker 2: So our opening night was complete and not a chaos.

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Speaker 3: We also unforeseen to us looking at the dates, I

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Speaker 3: think we were so just excited to open the club.

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Speaker 2: We opened on Mardi Gras.

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Speaker 3: So not only did we have the absolute chaos of

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Speaker 3: being in Darlinghurst and having Mardi Gras around, we also

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Speaker 3: had ninety people trying to come and see this new

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Speaker 3: swingers club that had just opened up all at once,

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Speaker 3: so it was people everywhere. We were nailing things to

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Speaker 3: the world just before it opened. The staff at the

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Speaker 3: time we'd hired a few people, but a lot of

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Speaker 3: them were friends of Lawrence or friends of the lifestyle

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Speaker 3: that we kind of built over that three months, who

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Speaker 3: were confident and comfortable within a very I guess very

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Speaker 3: field environment full of sexually active people.

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Speaker 2: So I guess also having them as friends as.

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Speaker 3: Well helped us to kind of work out the tweaks

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Speaker 3: and get honest feedback on what we could improve on.

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Speaker 2: However, I find swingers being so honest.

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Speaker 3: They were very and more than happy to give us

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Speaker 3: honest feedback then and there, so anything that we did need.

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Speaker 2: To improve from the club was improved on pretty quickly.

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Speaker 4: But I think any business using friends and hiring friends

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Speaker 4: is great. But hiring friends can also be a problem, Yes,

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Speaker 4: when you have to address something with.

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Speaker 1: Them, yes, Ken.

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Speaker 3: Thankfully, a lot of this was temporary, so our friends

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Speaker 3: were in just until we could find our feet and

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Speaker 3: find the right staffing. A lot of the friends that

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Speaker 3: we did hire would only do one or two nights

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Speaker 3: a month. At the time, we were only opening on

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Speaker 3: a Friday and a Saturday, and for the first couple

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Speaker 3: of years we weren't getting an excessive amount of people,

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Speaker 3: so it was filling up. We were still working out

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Speaker 3: what type of events to host to get it to

237
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Speaker 3: fill up. So a lot of the nights for the

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Speaker 3: first couple of years it was mainly Lawrence and myself

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Speaker 3: working from open to clothes and then having one other

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Speaker 3: staff member who we'd hired, or another staff member that

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Speaker 3: we eventually hired as a manager.

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Speaker 4: So you said that your first time going to like

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Speaker 4: swinging was in your own club. Did that happen at

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Speaker 4: the opening or did it happen down the track?

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Speaker 1: When was your first time?

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Speaker 3: So my first time as a patron was at the

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Speaker 3: club and it was an event. We called it Jessica's Men,

248
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Speaker 3: So it was an event where we had topless waiters

249
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Speaker 3: and it was female centric for the beginning part because

250
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Speaker 3: me identifying as a bisexual woman, I really do like

251
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Speaker 3: the energy of women, so I wanted to have the

252
00:13:20,285 --> 00:13:23,685
Speaker 3: beginning night where it was just women and adjust their

253
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Speaker 3: energy and then partners or men could come in afterwards.

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Speaker 2: So the first two hours as women, then the men

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Speaker 2: came in.

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Speaker 3: That was my first time participating and being a patron

257
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Speaker 3: to see it from that side of things. It was

258
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Speaker 3: very interesting because there was definitely little stuff that as

259
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Speaker 3: a patron, I didn't realize how many things go in

260
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Speaker 3: and play into your mind of feeling comfortable and having

261
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Speaker 3: to have these conversations and making sure that you know

262
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Speaker 3: you asked before you sat down, or making sure the

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Speaker 3: person next to you was comfortable and they're not in

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Speaker 3: the middle of another discussion, whereas when you're working, you're

265
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Speaker 3: just trying to make sure you're like, not seen and

266
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Speaker 3: trying to clean up around people.

267
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Speaker 2: So it was very different.

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Speaker 3: It did help me understand a lot about where things

269
00:14:06,325 --> 00:14:08,965
Speaker 3: were positioned in the club and how nerve racking it

270
00:14:09,005 --> 00:14:11,525
Speaker 3: can be. I take my hat off and still to

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Speaker 3: this day to anyone that comes into this sort of environment,

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Speaker 3: it is daunting.

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Speaker 2: It's hard, it's scary.

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Speaker 3: Bit I think that nervous energy really helps you enjoy

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00:14:19,645 --> 00:14:22,205
Speaker 3: your night even more when you are able to break

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Speaker 3: down that barrier of nerve and come through the doors

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Speaker 3: to experience it.

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Speaker 1: Well, what happens.

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Speaker 4: Do most people come through on their own or do

280
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Speaker 4: they come through as part of a couple.

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Speaker 3: So currently we sit about ninety percent couples and ten

282
00:14:37,645 --> 00:14:41,445
Speaker 3: percent singles. We normally get about five single men per event.

283
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Speaker 2: This has been curated by us, just because we feel.

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Speaker 3: That energy of more men within the venue does shift

285
00:14:48,485 --> 00:14:52,085
Speaker 3: how it goes. We also predominantly promote a lot of

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00:14:52,125 --> 00:14:55,085
Speaker 3: our events four couples, but a lot of couples do

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00:14:55,165 --> 00:14:58,685
Speaker 3: come with other couples or other singles, so we find

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00:14:58,965 --> 00:15:02,005
Speaker 3: that's kind of why we've shifted towards a lot of couples,

289
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Speaker 3: But we do have designated events for just singles to.

290
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Speaker 4: Mingle right, and it tends to be in all matter

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00:15:09,325 --> 00:15:13,245
Speaker 4: as sexual. Really you build it and they will come

292
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Speaker 4: in every way, but the men really come, yes, So

293
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Speaker 4: you don't want the women to be overwhelmed by the

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Speaker 4: mean correct.

295
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Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. Men definitely have a lot more of a

296
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Speaker 3: dominant energy. So being able to control the limit of

297
00:15:31,845 --> 00:15:36,525
Speaker 3: how many men we have per event really helps relieve

298
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Speaker 3: a lot of stress and a lot of anxiety for

299
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Speaker 3: couples and singles. Where every single male that does come

300
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Speaker 3: into our event is vetted, so we ask them just

301
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Speaker 3: basic questions like have you been before, what are you

302
00:15:48,725 --> 00:15:51,965
Speaker 3: bringing to the table, what does consent means, So just

303
00:15:52,005 --> 00:15:55,525
Speaker 3: the basics that we really need them to understand. And

304
00:15:55,845 --> 00:15:58,405
Speaker 3: a lot of the men that do come have either

305
00:15:58,445 --> 00:16:01,445
Speaker 3: been a couple before they've come to other events, and

306
00:16:01,445 --> 00:16:05,565
Speaker 3: they're very very calm and very good at adding rather

307
00:16:05,645 --> 00:16:07,605
Speaker 3: than creating chaos.

308
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Speaker 4: Because of course you talked about consent earlier, how do

309
00:16:12,725 --> 00:16:16,085
Speaker 4: you brief people about that? Is there a when people

310
00:16:16,125 --> 00:16:19,165
Speaker 4: first come. I know that you get a tour. I've

311
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Speaker 4: heard your podcast that you do with Lawrence, and people

312
00:16:22,445 --> 00:16:26,405
Speaker 4: are given a tour, and then how do you have

313
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Speaker 4: that consent conversation with them?

314
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Speaker 3: The way that we ensure that consent is delivered to

315
00:16:32,285 --> 00:16:35,125
Speaker 3: everyone that turns up is that we always rely on

316
00:16:35,165 --> 00:16:39,045
Speaker 3: telling people that consent is necessary.

317
00:16:38,525 --> 00:16:40,125
Speaker 2: In all aspects of the club.

318
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Speaker 3: So whether it's going up to have a conversation with somebody,

319
00:16:44,125 --> 00:16:46,365
Speaker 3: we always say consent is sexy. So we try to

320
00:16:46,485 --> 00:16:49,085
Speaker 3: use that as a way for people to have a

321
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Speaker 3: first time conversation. On newbie nights as well, Laurence myself

322
00:16:53,485 --> 00:16:55,325
Speaker 3: will always get up and do a talk to give

323
00:16:55,365 --> 00:16:57,765
Speaker 3: people some one liners, some ins and outs of the club,

324
00:16:57,845 --> 00:17:00,965
Speaker 3: and just basics on what consent means and what it

325
00:17:01,005 --> 00:17:04,525
Speaker 3: can do for your relationship or for that scenario that's happening.

326
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Speaker 3: I think also with the lifestyle, we get a lot

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Speaker 3: of well educated people who before they even turn up

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00:17:11,085 --> 00:17:13,925
Speaker 3: a lot of people do research, so we're very fortunate

329
00:17:13,965 --> 00:17:17,205
Speaker 3: in that aspect where people like to do their own

330
00:17:17,485 --> 00:17:21,205
Speaker 3: digging into the lifestyle and what is necessary to ensure

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00:17:21,205 --> 00:17:23,565
Speaker 3: that they have a really good experience. And so if

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00:17:23,605 --> 00:17:26,325
Speaker 3: they come to the club with questions and normally questions

333
00:17:26,365 --> 00:17:29,085
Speaker 3: around what's your best way of asking for consent rather

334
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Speaker 3: than what is consent?

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Speaker 4: So you talked about newbie nights, So say I'm a

336
00:17:34,325 --> 00:17:37,925
Speaker 4: newbie and I'm coming, what one liner are you going

337
00:17:37,965 --> 00:17:38,405
Speaker 4: to give me?

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00:17:39,085 --> 00:17:42,245
Speaker 3: My one liner is come looking for an experience, not

339
00:17:42,285 --> 00:17:48,125
Speaker 3: an expectation. So come in looking to experience a new conversation,

340
00:17:48,365 --> 00:17:52,445
Speaker 3: a new friendship, a new moment, and ensure that all

341
00:17:52,805 --> 00:17:55,485
Speaker 3: conversations that you have, no matter whether it be small

342
00:17:55,605 --> 00:17:59,245
Speaker 3: or big, starts with asking if everyone's okay with something

343
00:17:59,245 --> 00:18:01,125
Speaker 3: that you're doing, or if you are people would like

344
00:18:01,165 --> 00:18:03,405
Speaker 3: to have a conversation with you. And I think when

345
00:18:03,485 --> 00:18:06,605
Speaker 3: you lead or you start without, people just automatically go

346
00:18:06,725 --> 00:18:09,285
Speaker 3: into asking for consent for even the littlest thing like

347
00:18:09,405 --> 00:18:10,365
Speaker 3: touching someone's shoulder.

348
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Speaker 4: So it's a personal for some I guess it's a

349
00:18:14,245 --> 00:18:18,925
Speaker 4: personal connection as well, and for others it's just a

350
00:18:19,005 --> 00:18:22,685
Speaker 4: purely sexual thing. They're like arouse and they're like, I

351
00:18:22,685 --> 00:18:24,485
Speaker 4: want to be a part of whatever's going on.

352
00:18:24,965 --> 00:18:29,405
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a very lucky lifestyle where me personally, like

353
00:18:29,485 --> 00:18:32,285
Speaker 3: I've gained wonderful friendships from this, where some of my

354
00:18:32,325 --> 00:18:35,485
Speaker 3: best friends have been because of this lifestyle. But then

355
00:18:35,525 --> 00:18:39,285
Speaker 3: I've also gained friends where we have a solely sexual

356
00:18:39,365 --> 00:18:42,525
Speaker 3: relationship where I will come in or they'll come into

357
00:18:42,565 --> 00:18:45,285
Speaker 3: the relationship with me my hubby and we just have

358
00:18:45,365 --> 00:18:47,085
Speaker 3: sex with them, or we you know, we will go

359
00:18:47,085 --> 00:18:49,325
Speaker 3: out for a drink, we'll have a really like light

360
00:18:50,045 --> 00:18:52,365
Speaker 3: fun conversation and then we end up having sex.

361
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Speaker 2: And then there's friends who were in the.

362
00:18:54,605 --> 00:18:57,445
Speaker 3: Lifestyle together and we've never had sex together, but I

363
00:18:57,525 --> 00:19:00,005
Speaker 3: have some of the most deep and meaningful conversations with them,

364
00:19:00,005 --> 00:19:02,645
Speaker 3: and they've helped me through situations that I just I

365
00:19:02,685 --> 00:19:06,685
Speaker 3: need that sounding board. So I think because a lifestyle

366
00:19:07,285 --> 00:19:11,165
Speaker 3: is so broad in how you can perceive it, you're

367
00:19:11,205 --> 00:19:14,725
Speaker 3: able to build different types of friendships and relationships and

368
00:19:14,765 --> 00:19:16,645
Speaker 3: it isn't always just about sex.

369
00:19:17,325 --> 00:19:21,525
Speaker 4: So you and Lawrence were building so it's twofold really

370
00:19:21,565 --> 00:19:26,165
Speaker 4: because you were building this business together and you've obviously

371
00:19:26,445 --> 00:19:31,245
Speaker 4: found something that's resonating in the market, a market that

372
00:19:31,325 --> 00:19:33,445
Speaker 4: really probably you didn't even know was going to be

373
00:19:33,525 --> 00:19:36,205
Speaker 4: as big as it was, or that people would be

374
00:19:36,205 --> 00:19:39,245
Speaker 4: as open to it as they've proven to be. But

375
00:19:39,325 --> 00:19:43,525
Speaker 4: you're also running your relationship with him, yes, and you're

376
00:19:43,565 --> 00:19:45,005
Speaker 4: swinging yes. Uh.

377
00:19:45,845 --> 00:19:47,605
Speaker 3: Like I said, I don't like to do things in

378
00:19:47,645 --> 00:19:50,765
Speaker 3: halves or slowly as it appears. I'm very good at

379
00:19:50,805 --> 00:19:53,445
Speaker 3: throwing myself into the deep end, and I think that

380
00:19:53,485 --> 00:19:57,205
Speaker 3: actually helped me learn quicker and also be a bit

381
00:19:57,205 --> 00:20:00,965
Speaker 3: more confident in the way that I had these conversations

382
00:20:01,005 --> 00:20:03,565
Speaker 3: to learn about what I wanted from a relationship, what

383
00:20:03,645 --> 00:20:06,445
Speaker 3: I wanted from the club, and what I wanted for myself.

384
00:20:06,965 --> 00:20:08,405
Speaker 2: Lawrence and I are.

385
00:20:08,405 --> 00:20:10,725
Speaker 3: Still to this day were good friends, I seem like

386
00:20:10,765 --> 00:20:13,045
Speaker 3: three times a week because we worked together so often.

387
00:20:13,485 --> 00:20:16,525
Speaker 3: I think because of that, building our relationship together at

388
00:20:16,525 --> 00:20:19,805
Speaker 3: the beginning and building the club together, we had really good,

389
00:20:19,845 --> 00:20:23,005
Speaker 3: in depth and open conversations that it allowed us to

390
00:20:23,285 --> 00:20:28,525
Speaker 3: continue to grow both as a relationship and as a business.

391
00:20:30,085 --> 00:20:34,605
Speaker 4: After the break, Jess shares what her first experience of

392
00:20:34,685 --> 00:20:45,085
Speaker 4: swinging was like because he was experienced in this lifestyle

393
00:20:46,285 --> 00:20:47,165
Speaker 4: but you weren't.

394
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Speaker 1: But you do seem like you took to it like

395
00:20:50,725 --> 00:20:51,645
Speaker 1: a duck to water.

396
00:20:53,925 --> 00:20:57,565
Speaker 4: But did you have any issues initially because of what

397
00:20:57,645 --> 00:21:02,805
Speaker 4: I considered to be a natural tendency to be territorial

398
00:21:02,805 --> 00:21:06,965
Speaker 4: about the person that you are attracted to. Ye, did

399
00:21:07,005 --> 00:21:09,165
Speaker 4: you have any issues like that when you started a

400
00:21:09,445 --> 00:21:12,365
Speaker 4: the first time that you saw him with someone else,

401
00:21:12,445 --> 00:21:14,085
Speaker 4: saw vice versa.

402
00:21:14,645 --> 00:21:14,885
Speaker 2: Yeah.

403
00:21:14,925 --> 00:21:18,405
Speaker 3: Look, I even to this day, I think jealousy is

404
00:21:18,565 --> 00:21:21,525
Speaker 3: very prevalent in any sort of relationship you have.

405
00:21:22,085 --> 00:21:23,525
Speaker 2: We can all experience it.

406
00:21:23,965 --> 00:21:27,085
Speaker 3: I definitely experience it a lot at the beginning, but

407
00:21:27,125 --> 00:21:31,045
Speaker 3: thankfully I was able to communicate quite well because Lawrence

408
00:21:31,045 --> 00:21:33,845
Speaker 3: had always said, talk about things whether they're going to

409
00:21:33,845 --> 00:21:37,125
Speaker 3: be sticky, icky, or heart So there was definitely moments

410
00:21:37,125 --> 00:21:39,325
Speaker 3: where I didn't feel comfortable or I had these like

411
00:21:39,725 --> 00:21:43,005
Speaker 3: X and I was a bit a bit thrown by things.

412
00:21:43,085 --> 00:21:44,845
Speaker 3: And then I'd feel like I was taking two steps

413
00:21:44,885 --> 00:21:47,285
Speaker 3: back because like, I've seen stuff.

414
00:21:46,925 --> 00:21:50,765
Speaker 4: In what sort of situation do you recall first experiencing it.

415
00:21:51,445 --> 00:21:55,885
Speaker 3: My first ick was when Lawrence and I we were

416
00:21:55,925 --> 00:21:58,525
Speaker 3: playing and I'd said, yep, that's okay, you can go

417
00:21:58,605 --> 00:22:00,645
Speaker 3: and play by yourself, because I thought I was ready.

418
00:22:01,605 --> 00:22:03,205
Speaker 2: It was a little bit too fresh for me at

419
00:22:03,245 --> 00:22:04,205
Speaker 2: the beginning.

420
00:22:04,005 --> 00:22:06,285
Speaker 4: When you said he can go play so, in other words,

421
00:22:06,325 --> 00:22:07,085
Speaker 4: with other people.

422
00:22:07,565 --> 00:22:10,085
Speaker 3: Yeah, So we were in a like a group situation,

423
00:22:10,565 --> 00:22:13,605
Speaker 3: and generally we always tried to play together where we

424
00:22:13,605 --> 00:22:16,525
Speaker 3: were in sight of each other. And Lawrence had asked

425
00:22:16,525 --> 00:22:18,085
Speaker 3: if he could go and play with somebody else, and

426
00:22:18,125 --> 00:22:20,965
Speaker 3: I said, yeah, look, I'm comfortable with that, go for it.

427
00:22:21,405 --> 00:22:24,205
Speaker 3: And then once I guess my sex high had kind

428
00:22:24,245 --> 00:22:27,245
Speaker 3: of stopped, where I'd come back down into the land

429
00:22:27,285 --> 00:22:30,445
Speaker 3: of the living, I walked outside and then I'd seen

430
00:22:30,525 --> 00:22:32,205
Speaker 3: him playing with another girl and I got kind of

431
00:22:32,285 --> 00:22:34,165
Speaker 3: got that dick, and I was like, oh, wait, I'd

432
00:22:34,205 --> 00:22:36,725
Speaker 3: said yes to this. Maybe I wasn't ready for this

433
00:22:36,765 --> 00:22:38,965
Speaker 3: step yet. So once he had finished, we'd had a

434
00:22:39,005 --> 00:22:41,485
Speaker 3: conversation about it. He was not upset. We like neither

435
00:22:41,485 --> 00:22:43,365
Speaker 3: of us were upset. He could sense that I had

436
00:22:43,405 --> 00:22:46,205
Speaker 3: had this kind of this worry on my face.

437
00:22:46,525 --> 00:22:47,965
Speaker 2: I think this was maybe two years.

438
00:22:47,845 --> 00:22:51,365
Speaker 3: Into our relationship too, so it wasn't it wasn't early on,

439
00:22:51,445 --> 00:22:53,845
Speaker 3: but it was enough that I wasn't ready to have

440
00:22:53,965 --> 00:22:57,165
Speaker 3: that open play yet. So we just worked through that

441
00:22:57,285 --> 00:23:00,525
Speaker 3: as a conversation. We didn't involve anyone other than ourselves

442
00:23:00,565 --> 00:23:03,405
Speaker 3: to have this conversation. It wasn't necessary to bring other

443
00:23:03,445 --> 00:23:07,325
Speaker 3: people into that. And I think because it happened and

444
00:23:07,365 --> 00:23:09,125
Speaker 3: it was so fresh at the time, we were able

445
00:23:09,125 --> 00:23:10,965
Speaker 3: to talk about it, get through it, and we worked

446
00:23:11,005 --> 00:23:13,205
Speaker 3: out that we will just pull back again and we

447
00:23:13,245 --> 00:23:15,965
Speaker 3: wouldn't do open play until I felt I was ready.

448
00:23:16,045 --> 00:23:18,205
Speaker 2: So I'd always kept feeling.

449
00:23:17,845 --> 00:23:19,805
Speaker 3: Like I had pulled us back, but I think it

450
00:23:19,845 --> 00:23:21,525
Speaker 3: was one of the best things to be able to like, Okay,

451
00:23:21,565 --> 00:23:23,445
Speaker 3: I'm not ready for this, so let's just jump back

452
00:23:23,485 --> 00:23:25,805
Speaker 3: for a bit, and it's not stopping everything. And I

453
00:23:25,805 --> 00:23:28,605
Speaker 3: think a lot of people sometimes forget that where just

454
00:23:28,605 --> 00:23:31,885
Speaker 3: because something icky happens doesn't mean the whole entire thing stops.

455
00:23:31,925 --> 00:23:35,085
Speaker 3: You're right, you just step backwards, you just go back

456
00:23:35,125 --> 00:23:35,765
Speaker 3: to where you were.

457
00:23:35,925 --> 00:23:41,005
Speaker 4: Well, that's interesting. That's interesting because I think a lot

458
00:23:41,005 --> 00:23:43,805
Speaker 4: of people would go, oh, look, we tried this, or

459
00:23:44,285 --> 00:23:46,205
Speaker 4: you know a lot of people have been to the

460
00:23:46,245 --> 00:23:49,365
Speaker 4: strips with their partner, a lot of women, and even

461
00:23:49,405 --> 00:23:53,085
Speaker 4: that's been proven to be really confronting and brought up

462
00:23:53,125 --> 00:23:58,925
Speaker 4: feelings that they, you know, deeply uncomfortable with. Ye, and

463
00:23:58,965 --> 00:24:02,085
Speaker 4: then they retreat from that world. Ye, So they go

464
00:24:02,245 --> 00:24:04,165
Speaker 4: we tried that that didn't work.

465
00:24:04,325 --> 00:24:05,165
Speaker 1: That's not for me.

466
00:24:05,885 --> 00:24:09,485
Speaker 4: But there was something in you that even though you

467
00:24:09,485 --> 00:24:13,005
Speaker 4: you had those feelings, yeah, you went, but I'm going

468
00:24:13,085 --> 00:24:15,045
Speaker 4: to persist. I'm going to talk to Lawrence about this

469
00:24:15,085 --> 00:24:16,445
Speaker 4: and we're going to sort that out.

470
00:24:16,645 --> 00:24:17,805
Speaker 1: What was that drive?

471
00:24:18,565 --> 00:24:21,005
Speaker 3: I think it really helped having the club as well,

472
00:24:21,165 --> 00:24:23,325
Speaker 3: so we were advocates.

473
00:24:22,685 --> 00:24:23,565
Speaker 2: At the time as well.

474
00:24:23,605 --> 00:24:26,845
Speaker 3: I think that kind of pushed me to ensure that

475
00:24:26,925 --> 00:24:30,165
Speaker 3: I was bettering myself rather than giving up. I'm also

476
00:24:30,205 --> 00:24:36,165
Speaker 3: a very, very understanding because I don't think everyone's perfect.

477
00:24:36,205 --> 00:24:38,045
Speaker 2: I know for a fact, I always continue to try

478
00:24:38,045 --> 00:24:38,965
Speaker 2: and improve.

479
00:24:38,605 --> 00:24:40,765
Speaker 3: On things because I don't think I'm perfect, and I

480
00:24:40,765 --> 00:24:43,605
Speaker 3: think that mentality is stuck being like I would really

481
00:24:43,725 --> 00:24:46,405
Speaker 3: like to work on this because I think this has

482
00:24:46,685 --> 00:24:49,165
Speaker 3: made me a better person. I've just got an ick,

483
00:24:49,405 --> 00:24:51,125
Speaker 3: but I'd like to fix it.

484
00:24:51,525 --> 00:24:51,765
Speaker 2: Right.

485
00:24:51,845 --> 00:24:56,285
Speaker 4: That's interesting. In what way has swinging made you a

486
00:24:56,365 --> 00:24:57,085
Speaker 4: better person?

487
00:24:57,685 --> 00:25:00,885
Speaker 3: I think it's allowed me to be more confident in

488
00:25:01,045 --> 00:25:05,845
Speaker 3: myself and understand that I have like little ups and downs,

489
00:25:05,925 --> 00:25:09,125
Speaker 3: I have little imperfections, and my imperfections have helped me

490
00:25:09,485 --> 00:25:12,405
Speaker 3: become a better person. Or I've been able to find

491
00:25:12,405 --> 00:25:16,365
Speaker 3: ways to work with my imperfections. It's also allowed me

492
00:25:16,445 --> 00:25:19,525
Speaker 3: to be a better communicated both to my family as

493
00:25:19,565 --> 00:25:22,685
Speaker 3: well as to my friends. I've had conversations with friends

494
00:25:22,685 --> 00:25:25,485
Speaker 3: who aren't in the lifestyle, who I've known from high school,

495
00:25:25,525 --> 00:25:27,725
Speaker 3: and I do feel like I get really.

496
00:25:27,525 --> 00:25:29,645
Speaker 2: Top line conversations and then nothing.

497
00:25:29,925 --> 00:25:32,245
Speaker 3: There's no depth, there's no meaning to it, and it's

498
00:25:32,285 --> 00:25:35,885
Speaker 3: a lot of there's nothing to it, there's no grit,

499
00:25:35,965 --> 00:25:38,725
Speaker 3: and I just I'm really fortunate that I can now

500
00:25:38,765 --> 00:25:43,245
Speaker 3: have conversations with anyone wherever we go, and I'm able

501
00:25:43,285 --> 00:25:46,605
Speaker 3: to get meaning and purpose from some of the conversations

502
00:25:46,605 --> 00:25:47,245
Speaker 3: that I'm having.

503
00:25:47,685 --> 00:25:51,765
Speaker 4: Well, it's such an essential part of a person's makeup,

504
00:25:52,165 --> 00:25:56,285
Speaker 4: their sexuality or any sort of sensuality. But it feels

505
00:25:56,325 --> 00:26:01,445
Speaker 4: like the two year mark was very important. Was significant

506
00:26:01,605 --> 00:26:05,645
Speaker 4: because it was two years in that you had that

507
00:26:05,925 --> 00:26:11,485
Speaker 4: those feelings when you felt excluded from Lauren enjoying his play.

508
00:26:11,765 --> 00:26:13,605
Speaker 4: And it was at two years you said that you

509
00:26:13,765 --> 00:26:17,285
Speaker 4: told your family about the club. Yeah, So was that

510
00:26:17,405 --> 00:26:20,485
Speaker 4: the point at which you were like, this is the

511
00:26:20,525 --> 00:26:23,365
Speaker 4: lifestyle for me, this is going to be my business,

512
00:26:23,405 --> 00:26:25,645
Speaker 4: this is the place, this is who I am.

513
00:26:26,205 --> 00:26:28,405
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was where I kind of cemented

514
00:26:28,405 --> 00:26:32,045
Speaker 3: the fact that this has given me more opportunities and

515
00:26:32,085 --> 00:26:37,325
Speaker 3: more confidence in my life than anything else. And I

516
00:26:37,365 --> 00:26:39,965
Speaker 3: was building friendships that I still have to this day

517
00:26:40,325 --> 00:26:42,565
Speaker 3: during that time, and I think because of that, I

518
00:26:42,645 --> 00:26:45,725
Speaker 3: was getting that boost and confidence from them.

519
00:26:45,445 --> 00:26:49,125
Speaker 2: To really strive to be in this lifestyle.

520
00:26:49,485 --> 00:26:51,885
Speaker 3: And I think I also learned with this lifestyle that

521
00:26:52,765 --> 00:26:55,125
Speaker 3: it doesn't mean I have to be open I have

522
00:26:55,165 --> 00:26:57,725
Speaker 3: to have sex with everyone. I can have that friendship

523
00:26:57,765 --> 00:27:00,845
Speaker 3: in this lifestyle. I can have just a sexual relationship

524
00:27:00,845 --> 00:27:03,445
Speaker 3: in this lifestyle. I can also build my connection with Lawrence.

525
00:27:03,605 --> 00:27:05,765
Speaker 3: There was so many different elements in this lifestyle that

526
00:27:05,805 --> 00:27:08,445
Speaker 3: I'd learned, and I was starting to touch on each

527
00:27:08,445 --> 00:27:11,445
Speaker 3: of one of those, which I think then allowed me

528
00:27:11,485 --> 00:27:14,725
Speaker 3: to have that conversation with my family, with my mom

529
00:27:14,725 --> 00:27:17,645
Speaker 3: and my dad about the fact that I'm now an

530
00:27:17,645 --> 00:27:18,965
Speaker 3: owner of a swingers club.

531
00:27:19,245 --> 00:27:21,165
Speaker 2: I still have my day job, but I also have

532
00:27:21,285 --> 00:27:21,965
Speaker 2: my night job.

533
00:27:22,125 --> 00:27:25,685
Speaker 4: Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, Jess, back up,

534
00:27:26,005 --> 00:27:30,165
Speaker 4: back up, because I mean, everything seems clear in retrospect.

535
00:27:30,565 --> 00:27:32,885
Speaker 4: But the night that you were going to have that comment,

536
00:27:33,005 --> 00:27:34,245
Speaker 4: was it at a family dinner?

537
00:27:34,645 --> 00:27:36,965
Speaker 1: How did you? How did it play out?

538
00:27:37,245 --> 00:27:39,685
Speaker 3: So my mom and my dad were divorced at this

539
00:27:39,765 --> 00:27:43,165
Speaker 3: stage and they didn't spend a lot of time together,

540
00:27:43,805 --> 00:27:46,965
Speaker 3: so it actually was at my dad's house. My mom

541
00:27:47,405 --> 00:27:49,525
Speaker 3: came over to my dad's house and sat me down

542
00:27:49,605 --> 00:27:52,045
Speaker 3: and we were sitting across like a dining table.

543
00:27:52,285 --> 00:27:54,445
Speaker 2: So it was just during the middle of the day.

544
00:27:55,005 --> 00:27:57,725
Speaker 4: Had you called the family, did you say I've got

545
00:27:57,765 --> 00:27:58,885
Speaker 4: something to tell you.

546
00:27:58,805 --> 00:28:01,805
Speaker 3: Or yeah, so'm I was already going to meet up

547
00:28:01,805 --> 00:28:03,685
Speaker 3: with my mom for the day to have just a

548
00:28:03,765 --> 00:28:08,125
Speaker 3: light lunch, and I just kind of got this like

549
00:28:08,205 --> 00:28:11,085
Speaker 3: this stomach feeling where I I just wanted to tell her,

550
00:28:11,245 --> 00:28:12,685
Speaker 3: and then I was like, wait, I would not want

551
00:28:12,725 --> 00:28:13,845
Speaker 3: to leave my dad out of this.

552
00:28:13,925 --> 00:28:16,445
Speaker 2: So I asked you if we could have a conversation together.

553
00:28:16,525 --> 00:28:18,925
Speaker 3: I said, it's nothing too serious, but it's something i'd

554
00:28:18,965 --> 00:28:21,965
Speaker 3: really like to tell you guys. Of course, parents being parents,

555
00:28:21,965 --> 00:28:25,645
Speaker 3: thought something horrific had happened to me. It was actually

556
00:28:25,925 --> 00:28:28,885
Speaker 3: the conversation went really really well. I don't think there

557
00:28:28,925 --> 00:28:31,565
Speaker 3: was a sigh of relief. Because both my parents didn't

558
00:28:31,605 --> 00:28:35,045
Speaker 3: really understand what a swingers club was. It did take

559
00:28:35,085 --> 00:28:38,485
Speaker 3: me a year to really help solidify the idea that

560
00:28:38,725 --> 00:28:42,885
Speaker 3: a swingers club is about consent ethically non monogamous people.

561
00:28:43,125 --> 00:28:45,485
Speaker 3: It was giving them all the terms that they could

562
00:28:45,645 --> 00:28:48,525
Speaker 3: use to understand that their daughter wasn't in some sort

563
00:28:48,565 --> 00:28:51,165
Speaker 3: of I guess back in the day people thought, you know,

564
00:28:51,205 --> 00:28:52,005
Speaker 3: you're at a strip club.

565
00:28:52,005 --> 00:28:54,205
Speaker 2: It's a bit dirt, it's a bit sea like sleazy.

566
00:28:55,125 --> 00:28:56,925
Speaker 3: So being able to have that conversation being like, no,

567
00:28:57,005 --> 00:29:00,485
Speaker 3: I'm safe, I'm really happy. And then they started meeting

568
00:29:00,485 --> 00:29:02,005
Speaker 3: some of my friends from the life so and I

569
00:29:02,005 --> 00:29:05,805
Speaker 3: think that really helped them understand that this decision, this

570
00:29:05,845 --> 00:29:08,485
Speaker 3: path that I was on, wasn't a bad path at all.

571
00:29:09,525 --> 00:29:12,285
Speaker 4: Lawrence obviously because you'd been together for two years at

572
00:29:12,285 --> 00:29:15,885
Speaker 4: this point. Yeah, and they obviously were on board with

573
00:29:16,005 --> 00:29:20,685
Speaker 4: Lawrence as a partner for you. What was their first

574
00:29:21,205 --> 00:29:24,445
Speaker 4: their first reaction? Can you remember when the words came

575
00:29:24,485 --> 00:29:25,285
Speaker 4: out of your mouth?

576
00:29:26,165 --> 00:29:28,845
Speaker 3: My dad thought I was working out of brothel, right,

577
00:29:28,925 --> 00:29:32,965
Speaker 3: and just clarifying that that was not what was happening.

578
00:29:34,485 --> 00:29:35,845
Speaker 2: My mom was a bit more of the.

579
00:29:35,885 --> 00:29:39,405
Speaker 3: Quiet type, so she she'd had a conversation with me,

580
00:29:39,605 --> 00:29:42,925
Speaker 3: but it was more around just ensuring I was safe.

581
00:29:44,045 --> 00:29:46,685
Speaker 3: My mom has always been a really good supporter and

582
00:29:46,765 --> 00:29:49,525
Speaker 3: anything I do, one of my biggest advocates but she

583
00:29:50,125 --> 00:29:52,125
Speaker 3: just wanted to make sure I was safe and I

584
00:29:52,205 --> 00:29:55,845
Speaker 3: wasn't doing anything to harm myself. And I think just

585
00:29:55,885 --> 00:29:58,045
Speaker 3: being able to like say it with a smile and

586
00:29:58,125 --> 00:30:00,725
Speaker 3: I was really excited about telling them about the club,

587
00:30:00,765 --> 00:30:04,805
Speaker 3: I think that helped them understand that what I was

588
00:30:04,845 --> 00:30:07,725
Speaker 3: doing was something of a business but also something that

589
00:30:07,765 --> 00:30:10,805
Speaker 3: I had a passion for. And my parents are both

590
00:30:10,805 --> 00:30:13,605
Speaker 3: being very good supporters anytime I've decided to start or

591
00:30:13,725 --> 00:30:17,365
Speaker 3: unbark on some sort of passionate adventure. So I think

592
00:30:17,605 --> 00:30:20,765
Speaker 3: knowing that I was such an adventurous person and never

593
00:30:20,845 --> 00:30:22,885
Speaker 3: the person that sat on my hands and did nothing,

594
00:30:23,085 --> 00:30:25,405
Speaker 3: I think they were very accepting at first.

595
00:30:25,685 --> 00:30:27,685
Speaker 4: And did they ever come? Have they come to see

596
00:30:27,685 --> 00:30:29,045
Speaker 4: you at work? Have they come to.

597
00:30:29,005 --> 00:30:33,325
Speaker 1: See so now?

598
00:30:33,525 --> 00:30:36,045
Speaker 3: I probably would allow them to come to the club

599
00:30:36,085 --> 00:30:37,605
Speaker 3: when I was not there, but I don't think that's

600
00:30:37,645 --> 00:30:40,605
Speaker 3: in my parents. I have two younger sisters who have

601
00:30:40,725 --> 00:30:43,085
Speaker 3: come and supported the club. So anytime we have a

602
00:30:43,085 --> 00:30:46,525
Speaker 3: big event like the birthday or I have my birthday there,

603
00:30:46,525 --> 00:30:49,445
Speaker 3: they've come and supported the club. Family members I haven't

604
00:30:49,485 --> 00:30:52,405
Speaker 3: seen in the club. I don't think my family swing

605
00:30:52,525 --> 00:30:56,965
Speaker 3: that way, but that's completely fine. I have definitely seen

606
00:30:57,005 --> 00:30:59,605
Speaker 3: a bunch of friends. I have seen work colleagues in

607
00:30:59,645 --> 00:31:02,325
Speaker 3: the club. Family, I still haven't tipped off and seen

608
00:31:02,325 --> 00:31:04,285
Speaker 3: in the club, which I'm happy with that I.

609
00:31:04,205 --> 00:31:05,885
Speaker 2: Don't really family.

610
00:31:06,045 --> 00:31:07,605
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, that's right.

611
00:31:07,645 --> 00:31:11,045
Speaker 4: I'm reminded of that girl who on TikTok who had

612
00:31:11,045 --> 00:31:14,285
Speaker 4: an only fans and realized that one of her subscribers

613
00:31:14,365 --> 00:31:17,005
Speaker 4: was her stepdad or whatever, and it was just like, oh,

614
00:31:17,045 --> 00:31:21,485
Speaker 4: there's sometimes that you don't necessarily want your family to

615
00:31:21,485 --> 00:31:23,405
Speaker 4: support you both physically being there.

616
00:31:23,925 --> 00:31:27,445
Speaker 2: Yep. Yeah, I'm happy with the just the moral support.

617
00:31:27,325 --> 00:31:30,925
Speaker 4: And speaking of support, at this point, your relationship with

618
00:31:31,125 --> 00:31:35,445
Speaker 4: Lawrence is going great guns yep, But at some point

619
00:31:35,525 --> 00:31:41,165
Speaker 4: that started to was it a separation, an emotional separation,

620
00:31:41,525 --> 00:31:42,685
Speaker 4: or a growing apart?

621
00:31:43,405 --> 00:31:45,325
Speaker 2: So with Laurence and I, it was definitely a growing

622
00:31:45,405 --> 00:31:47,565
Speaker 2: a part. So we.

623
00:31:49,365 --> 00:31:52,925
Speaker 3: Probably six years into our relationship, we'd opened up the

624
00:31:53,005 --> 00:31:56,845
Speaker 3: second club. Oh, we'd also opened up our relationship as well,

625
00:31:56,925 --> 00:31:59,965
Speaker 3: so we were starting to date other people and we've

626
00:32:00,005 --> 00:32:01,965
Speaker 3: been doing that for about two years.

627
00:32:02,045 --> 00:32:05,325
Speaker 2: So oh, we'd really expanded on our relationship.

628
00:32:05,365 --> 00:32:08,085
Speaker 1: Sorry, jes you need to explain this to me as well.

629
00:32:08,285 --> 00:32:13,765
Speaker 4: Yeah, so the swinging is not opening the relationship swinging

630
00:32:13,805 --> 00:32:14,685
Speaker 4: itself is not.

631
00:32:15,165 --> 00:32:18,325
Speaker 3: Yeah, So swinging itself is where you can come and

632
00:32:18,685 --> 00:32:22,365
Speaker 3: have a sexual experience or an emotional and sexual experience

633
00:32:22,445 --> 00:32:26,325
Speaker 3: with your partner by yourself in that moment. Being in

634
00:32:26,365 --> 00:32:29,725
Speaker 3: an open relationship means that you have a primary partner,

635
00:32:29,885 --> 00:32:31,965
Speaker 3: you have somebody that you normally go back to, and

636
00:32:32,005 --> 00:32:35,245
Speaker 3: then you can have multiple relationships from that. So, right,

637
00:32:35,445 --> 00:32:37,605
Speaker 3: they're kind of like stages, is how I see it.

638
00:32:37,965 --> 00:32:40,125
Speaker 3: I'm sure there's people out there who have it in

639
00:32:40,165 --> 00:32:42,445
Speaker 3: a different perspective, but the way that I see it

640
00:32:42,525 --> 00:32:45,005
Speaker 3: is we have like our swinging relationship, and then we

641
00:32:45,045 --> 00:32:47,965
Speaker 3: can open that up and have like our primary partner.

642
00:32:47,965 --> 00:32:49,845
Speaker 2: So Lawrence was my primary partner, and.

643
00:32:49,765 --> 00:32:53,685
Speaker 3: I was exploring my sexuality with both women and men.

644
00:32:54,125 --> 00:32:56,885
Speaker 3: I had a girlfriend, and I had a couple boyfriends

645
00:32:56,925 --> 00:32:57,805
Speaker 3: at the time too.

646
00:32:58,165 --> 00:33:03,885
Speaker 4: And this, I imagine is where requires some extra care. Yeah,

647
00:33:03,925 --> 00:33:08,765
Speaker 4: because what you're talking about now is a real emotional level,

648
00:33:09,125 --> 00:33:11,485
Speaker 4: yeah as well, not just physical.

649
00:33:11,765 --> 00:33:14,365
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot. There is a lot to it.

650
00:33:14,845 --> 00:33:17,925
Speaker 2: I with my current partner, we are not open.

651
00:33:18,125 --> 00:33:23,805
Speaker 3: I do not have the capacity to have that emotional relationship.

652
00:33:23,925 --> 00:33:25,645
Speaker 2: I know that in myself.

653
00:33:25,245 --> 00:33:31,285
Speaker 3: Now I'm definitely more of a sexual relationship style.

654
00:33:31,445 --> 00:33:32,085
Speaker 2: But I don't.

655
00:33:32,205 --> 00:33:35,245
Speaker 3: I just don't have the emotional capacity to give somebody

656
00:33:35,285 --> 00:33:39,085
Speaker 3: else other than my partner more of my time and

657
00:33:39,125 --> 00:33:40,285
Speaker 3: emotional capacity.

658
00:33:40,525 --> 00:33:44,125
Speaker 4: And so how did you come to that realization, because

659
00:33:44,165 --> 00:33:47,125
Speaker 4: when you were with Lawrence you did have that capacity.

660
00:33:47,645 --> 00:33:49,045
Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, with Lawrence, I did.

661
00:33:49,125 --> 00:33:51,605
Speaker 3: I think Lawrence and I built a relationship from the

662
00:33:51,605 --> 00:33:54,765
Speaker 3: beginning about conversations and being able to have these open

663
00:33:54,805 --> 00:33:57,405
Speaker 3: conversations and really wanting to explore things together.

664
00:33:58,965 --> 00:34:00,125
Speaker 2: I think because.

665
00:33:59,725 --> 00:34:03,965
Speaker 3: We were so explorative already opening up our relationship really

666
00:34:03,965 --> 00:34:06,125
Speaker 3: did feel like the next stage for us. We were

667
00:34:06,165 --> 00:34:09,565
Speaker 3: also engaged as well at this stage, so I think

668
00:34:09,605 --> 00:34:12,005
Speaker 3: having been engaged to him, I really did feel like

669
00:34:12,045 --> 00:34:15,045
Speaker 3: I had that primary partner, and so I'd had that

670
00:34:15,125 --> 00:34:21,045
Speaker 3: comfortable ability to, yeah, to go and explore myself both

671
00:34:21,045 --> 00:34:24,325
Speaker 3: sexually with women and sexually with men, So I'd built

672
00:34:24,445 --> 00:34:26,565
Speaker 3: relationships from that during that time.

673
00:34:26,565 --> 00:34:27,965
Speaker 2: Also, Lawrence had done the same.

674
00:34:28,245 --> 00:34:32,085
Speaker 3: We actually both met our respective new partners during this stage,

675
00:34:32,125 --> 00:34:35,645
Speaker 3: so I've I met my husband and Lawrence met his wife.

676
00:34:35,925 --> 00:34:39,725
Speaker 2: So okay, see a nice little crossover, yeah.

677
00:34:39,605 --> 00:34:42,445
Speaker 4: Right, And it happened sort of concurrently. So you were

678
00:34:42,485 --> 00:34:45,445
Speaker 4: obviously both feeling the same thing at the same time.

679
00:34:46,005 --> 00:34:49,245
Speaker 3: Yeah, So Lawrence had met his current wife before I'd

680
00:34:49,285 --> 00:34:52,885
Speaker 3: met my partner, So I'd met my partner maybe maybe

681
00:34:52,885 --> 00:34:56,845
Speaker 3: a year after. We both met Lawrence's wife together at

682
00:34:56,845 --> 00:35:00,605
Speaker 3: the same time. They'd built a relationship which was all

683
00:35:01,005 --> 00:35:03,965
Speaker 3: consensual because we were building on open relationships.

684
00:35:05,205 --> 00:35:10,525
Speaker 4: So you've had sex with Lawrence's wife, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah,

685
00:35:11,085 --> 00:35:11,525
Speaker 4: all right.

686
00:35:11,525 --> 00:35:14,485
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and Lawrence actually met her in the club

687
00:35:14,765 --> 00:35:18,885
Speaker 3: as well, just into that. So Lawrence had met her

688
00:35:19,085 --> 00:35:21,365
Speaker 3: in our club with me at the same time.

689
00:35:21,685 --> 00:35:22,885
Speaker 2: We both met her at the same time.

690
00:35:23,005 --> 00:35:29,405
Speaker 3: So yeah, it does really intertwine quite a bit relationships

691
00:35:29,405 --> 00:35:31,405
Speaker 3: in swinging and especially Lawrence and not mine.

692
00:35:31,965 --> 00:35:35,125
Speaker 4: And because you must be so attuned to like you said,

693
00:35:35,165 --> 00:35:37,845
Speaker 4: there's like a physical connection, there's a number of levels

694
00:35:37,885 --> 00:35:41,445
Speaker 4: to it. There's a physical connection, there's an emotional connection.

695
00:35:42,565 --> 00:35:46,725
Speaker 4: Many people believe that there's also a spiritual connection in sexuality.

696
00:35:47,205 --> 00:35:50,165
Speaker 4: But so when you were with Lawrence and you both

697
00:35:50,245 --> 00:35:53,485
Speaker 4: met who's now his wife at the same time, did

698
00:35:53,525 --> 00:35:57,685
Speaker 4: you since that there was that something between them?

699
00:35:58,005 --> 00:36:02,245
Speaker 3: I could definitely tell there was a stronger connection, and

700
00:36:02,565 --> 00:36:04,165
Speaker 3: I don't think I saw it from the beginning that

701
00:36:04,245 --> 00:36:07,405
Speaker 3: I was. Look, I was never worried about their relationship,

702
00:36:07,445 --> 00:36:10,245
Speaker 3: but I think, like you said, we were both in

703
00:36:10,325 --> 00:36:11,685
Speaker 3: tune of checking.

704
00:36:11,365 --> 00:36:12,205
Speaker 2: Out a little bit.

705
00:36:12,845 --> 00:36:15,485
Speaker 3: I think we both were building on the relationship and

706
00:36:15,565 --> 00:36:19,085
Speaker 3: just kicking off boxes rather than nurturing that relationship that

707
00:36:19,125 --> 00:36:21,845
Speaker 3: we were building. I mean, it's nurtured in the way

708
00:36:21,845 --> 00:36:24,285
Speaker 3: that we are still really good friends. So I think

709
00:36:24,365 --> 00:36:27,245
Speaker 3: that's where we were putting the nurturing into. But the

710
00:36:27,325 --> 00:36:29,645
Speaker 3: sex and the love and all of that that was

711
00:36:29,685 --> 00:36:32,365
Speaker 3: not getting nurtured on. So I think we were already

712
00:36:32,365 --> 00:36:35,725
Speaker 3: seeking that somewhere else. So I think I did notice

713
00:36:35,765 --> 00:36:38,605
Speaker 3: it with them, but don't I was never threatened by it,

714
00:36:38,685 --> 00:36:41,885
Speaker 3: So I think it just kind of fell naturally, which

715
00:36:41,925 --> 00:36:44,405
Speaker 3: actually worked out great because I think I was able

716
00:36:44,445 --> 00:36:48,405
Speaker 3: to then allow myself to develop the friendship and then

717
00:36:48,445 --> 00:36:50,965
Speaker 3: the love for my current partner from when I started

718
00:36:51,045 --> 00:36:51,565
Speaker 3: dating him.

719
00:36:51,805 --> 00:36:55,445
Speaker 4: So this is Jamie, who you're married to now, and

720
00:36:55,525 --> 00:36:57,685
Speaker 4: you have a one year old son.

721
00:36:58,005 --> 00:37:01,005
Speaker 3: I got a two year old, actually a two year old, Yeah,

722
00:37:01,045 --> 00:37:03,525
Speaker 3: he just turned to And Lawrence also has a two

723
00:37:03,605 --> 00:37:04,805
Speaker 3: year old with his partner.

724
00:37:05,205 --> 00:37:09,205
Speaker 2: He does indeed, so we have kids a month apart.

725
00:37:10,885 --> 00:37:13,685
Speaker 4: Wow, you do have something sympatico between you.

726
00:37:14,205 --> 00:37:14,525
Speaker 2: We do.

727
00:37:14,645 --> 00:37:19,765
Speaker 3: Indeed, it's a very interesting relationship because it's weird to

728
00:37:19,805 --> 00:37:22,405
Speaker 3: say it now, but I think I say that our

729
00:37:22,445 --> 00:37:25,725
Speaker 3: relationship is like a brother and sister relationship where we

730
00:37:25,845 --> 00:37:28,285
Speaker 3: just know so much about each other. But at the

731
00:37:28,365 --> 00:37:30,125
Speaker 3: end of the day, we both defend and support each

732
00:37:30,125 --> 00:37:31,965
Speaker 3: other in every decision that we make. But I think

733
00:37:31,965 --> 00:37:34,885
Speaker 3: a lot of our life decisions and our wants are

734
00:37:34,965 --> 00:37:38,245
Speaker 3: quite still in the same line because we were already

735
00:37:38,285 --> 00:37:41,045
Speaker 3: building that together. We've now just found other partners to

736
00:37:41,045 --> 00:37:41,645
Speaker 3: build that with.

737
00:37:42,085 --> 00:37:44,245
Speaker 1: You're still business partners.

738
00:37:44,045 --> 00:37:45,885
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, still business.

739
00:37:45,605 --> 00:37:47,565
Speaker 1: So there's that consideration as well.

740
00:37:47,925 --> 00:37:49,965
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we still we pretty much see each other

741
00:37:50,085 --> 00:37:52,805
Speaker 3: still three times a week. We're generally at the club

742
00:37:52,965 --> 00:37:56,205
Speaker 3: working on new stuff for the business. We continue to

743
00:37:56,725 --> 00:37:59,325
Speaker 3: have the same goals and hopes for the business as well,

744
00:37:59,405 --> 00:38:02,805
Speaker 3: so wanting to expand the business, wanting to go into state.

745
00:38:03,005 --> 00:38:06,845
Speaker 3: We have very good open conversations about this. So it's

746
00:38:06,885 --> 00:38:11,445
Speaker 3: really helped build our I guess, our our life together

747
00:38:11,565 --> 00:38:14,045
Speaker 3: as business partners because we're so happy in the lives

748
00:38:14,045 --> 00:38:16,325
Speaker 3: that we've developed with our primary partners.

749
00:38:18,085 --> 00:38:22,245
Speaker 4: Don't go anywhere. Next, Jess explains what it was like

750
00:38:22,605 --> 00:38:30,445
Speaker 4: bringing her partner Jamie into the club. How did you

751
00:38:30,725 --> 00:38:31,485
Speaker 4: meet Jamie?

752
00:38:32,125 --> 00:38:32,925
Speaker 2: Manyone Tinder?

753
00:38:35,125 --> 00:38:39,485
Speaker 3: Very very yeah, very old school manyone Tinder. I was

754
00:38:39,685 --> 00:38:42,485
Speaker 3: very transparent on Tinder too. I said, I'm here to

755
00:38:42,565 --> 00:38:46,405
Speaker 3: find somebody to have sex with. I wanted to have

756
00:38:46,445 --> 00:38:52,005
Speaker 3: a partner that was based off sex, and I didn't

757
00:38:52,045 --> 00:38:55,325
Speaker 3: want to build a boyfriend or a relationship in that aspect.

758
00:38:55,445 --> 00:38:58,285
Speaker 3: So that clearly didn't work at all.

759
00:38:58,965 --> 00:38:59,205
Speaker 2: Wow.

760
00:39:00,005 --> 00:39:02,885
Speaker 4: And yet he responded to that, he was like, yeah,

761
00:39:02,925 --> 00:39:03,645
Speaker 4: I'm here for that.

762
00:39:04,045 --> 00:39:04,405
Speaker 2: Yeah.

763
00:39:04,565 --> 00:39:07,405
Speaker 1: And then at what point did you realize it was

764
00:39:08,405 --> 00:39:09,205
Speaker 1: more than that?

765
00:39:10,205 --> 00:39:12,365
Speaker 3: I think early on I definitely felt like there was

766
00:39:12,445 --> 00:39:16,885
Speaker 3: more from the beginning because Jamie was also just recently divorced,

767
00:39:17,125 --> 00:39:19,885
Speaker 3: and I had to be also explained to him that

768
00:39:19,885 --> 00:39:21,845
Speaker 3: I was still with Lawrence. I think a lot of

769
00:39:21,845 --> 00:39:24,245
Speaker 3: our conversations from the get go were very transparent and

770
00:39:24,405 --> 00:39:28,245
Speaker 3: very honest. So when we both started developing feelings quite

771
00:39:28,285 --> 00:39:30,485
Speaker 3: early on, I think it was like into date three

772
00:39:30,565 --> 00:39:33,885
Speaker 3: or date four, we were having really long, deep and

773
00:39:33,925 --> 00:39:37,765
Speaker 3: meaningful conversations about what would happen if the relationship changed,

774
00:39:37,805 --> 00:39:40,445
Speaker 3: what would a polyamorous relationship look like, Because at that

775
00:39:40,525 --> 00:39:42,485
Speaker 3: stage Lawrence and I was still together and we were

776
00:39:42,485 --> 00:39:46,645
Speaker 3: still working on our relationship to continue through. So we

777
00:39:46,685 --> 00:39:48,965
Speaker 3: were definitely trying to tick off a lot of boxes

778
00:39:48,965 --> 00:39:50,885
Speaker 3: to see what we'd feel comfortable with. And I think

779
00:39:50,965 --> 00:39:53,845
Speaker 3: that's where I'd kind of found the establishment that I

780
00:39:53,845 --> 00:39:56,805
Speaker 3: don't think I would be comfortable in a polyamorous relationship

781
00:39:56,805 --> 00:39:59,685
Speaker 3: because I wouldn't be able to give my full self

782
00:39:59,725 --> 00:40:01,525
Speaker 3: one hundred percent to each person all the time, and

783
00:40:01,565 --> 00:40:04,125
Speaker 3: I wouldn't be able to balance it well. So that's

784
00:40:04,165 --> 00:40:06,645
Speaker 3: where I had to re establish some ideas in my

785
00:40:06,685 --> 00:40:10,245
Speaker 3: mind of what I really wanted from a relationship. I

786
00:40:10,245 --> 00:40:13,525
Speaker 3: think that's also the same with Lawrence, where he had

787
00:40:13,565 --> 00:40:17,005
Speaker 3: some thoughts about what he wanted from a relationship and I.

788
00:40:17,045 --> 00:40:19,005
Speaker 3: When we broke up as well, we had a really

789
00:40:19,965 --> 00:40:22,645
Speaker 3: it's such an interesting way that we broke up. We

790
00:40:22,645 --> 00:40:26,965
Speaker 3: broke up on his birthday party, drove home together, spent

791
00:40:27,045 --> 00:40:29,325
Speaker 3: a couple of days together, and then he moved out.

792
00:40:29,525 --> 00:40:32,965
Speaker 3: There was no animosity, there was no anger. There was

793
00:40:33,005 --> 00:40:35,085
Speaker 3: a little bit of like you know, those down moments

794
00:40:35,125 --> 00:40:37,725
Speaker 3: for the first couple months, but we had some separation time,

795
00:40:38,205 --> 00:40:40,165
Speaker 3: but we were really amicable when we broke up.

796
00:40:40,205 --> 00:40:43,645
Speaker 2: I think we both understood our paths weren't in.

797
00:40:43,765 --> 00:40:48,325
Speaker 3: A line anymore a list as a romantic relationship, so

798
00:40:48,765 --> 00:40:50,925
Speaker 3: our split was surprisingly easy.

799
00:40:51,645 --> 00:40:57,205
Speaker 4: He sounds very pragmatic, Lawrence. Ye, but when he sensed

800
00:40:58,045 --> 00:41:02,165
Speaker 4: the connection between you and Jamie and when you were like, oh,

801
00:41:02,285 --> 00:41:06,045
Speaker 4: I don't want to be polyamorous or whatever, yep, that

802
00:41:06,125 --> 00:41:10,405
Speaker 4: must have been for him a real sign that Jamie was.

803
00:41:10,365 --> 00:41:13,125
Speaker 1: The course that you were going to be following.

804
00:41:13,445 --> 00:41:13,645
Speaker 2: Yeah.

805
00:41:13,685 --> 00:41:16,205
Speaker 3: Look, I think quite similar to when I'd picked up

806
00:41:16,245 --> 00:41:20,445
Speaker 3: there was more with his wife. I definitely think Lawrence

807
00:41:20,485 --> 00:41:23,605
Speaker 3: picked up on the Jamie aspect too. We did have

808
00:41:23,645 --> 00:41:27,285
Speaker 3: conversations about how I'd felt a bit more stronger towards Jamie.

809
00:41:27,645 --> 00:41:29,925
Speaker 3: I was quite transparent with a lot of things, as

810
00:41:30,125 --> 00:41:33,765
Speaker 3: was Lawrence. Again, I think that open communication was very

811
00:41:33,805 --> 00:41:35,765
Speaker 3: strong in us, thankfully.

812
00:41:35,365 --> 00:41:36,445
Speaker 2: Because of the lifestyle.

813
00:41:36,525 --> 00:41:39,405
Speaker 3: So I think that really helped us not feel a

814
00:41:39,445 --> 00:41:41,925
Speaker 3: shame for having these conversations with each other. And I

815
00:41:41,925 --> 00:41:44,645
Speaker 3: think that also helped allowed us when we did break up,

816
00:41:44,965 --> 00:41:48,165
Speaker 3: have it really solidified that we understood weren't breaking up

817
00:41:48,165 --> 00:41:49,885
Speaker 3: because we didn't like each other as people.

818
00:41:50,045 --> 00:41:52,525
Speaker 2: It's just we weren't the right people for each other.

819
00:41:52,965 --> 00:41:56,925
Speaker 4: So when you met Jamie and I'm imagining. Maybe I'm wrong,

820
00:41:57,125 --> 00:41:59,725
Speaker 4: but he had come from a more traditional sort of

821
00:41:59,845 --> 00:42:04,125
Speaker 4: model of relationship. You said he was divorced. How did

822
00:42:04,165 --> 00:42:07,325
Speaker 4: you introduce him to all of you?

823
00:42:08,125 --> 00:42:10,045
Speaker 3: I threw him in the deep end, so I told

824
00:42:10,125 --> 00:42:12,805
Speaker 3: him from the get go what I was into. I

825
00:42:12,845 --> 00:42:14,805
Speaker 3: told him about the club. I was always very transparent

826
00:42:14,845 --> 00:42:18,445
Speaker 3: about owning the club. Basically, it was our ninth birthday

827
00:42:18,485 --> 00:42:20,245
Speaker 3: at the club, and I.

828
00:42:20,205 --> 00:42:22,685
Speaker 2: Invited him to come along as a single guy.

829
00:42:22,805 --> 00:42:25,645
Speaker 3: At the time, I was still with Lawrence, and he

830
00:42:26,645 --> 00:42:28,325
Speaker 3: was kind of left by himself for a little bit,

831
00:42:28,365 --> 00:42:30,765
Speaker 3: just to see how he'd suit in the situation, how

832
00:42:30,765 --> 00:42:35,285
Speaker 3: he would be around this lifestyle. Jamie seems to swim

833
00:42:35,325 --> 00:42:39,445
Speaker 3: so well. He just gets on with everyone, has conversations,

834
00:42:39,525 --> 00:42:42,725
Speaker 3: is very comfortable in his own self and able to

835
00:42:42,885 --> 00:42:47,005
Speaker 3: just float around and be comfortable in whatever situation. I

836
00:42:47,005 --> 00:42:50,565
Speaker 3: think that really helped me, because with this lifestyle, I'm

837
00:42:50,725 --> 00:42:53,685
Speaker 3: not always able to give everything I need to hum

838
00:42:53,725 --> 00:42:55,565
Speaker 3: at the time, because I need to be running the business,

839
00:42:55,645 --> 00:42:58,165
Speaker 3: I need to be checking on things. And knowing that

840
00:42:58,205 --> 00:43:01,645
Speaker 3: he was comfortable just doing his thing and not feeling

841
00:43:01,725 --> 00:43:05,005
Speaker 3: left out really helps solidify the fact that he.

842
00:43:04,965 --> 00:43:08,325
Speaker 4: Was the one and what was his thing? Was he

843
00:43:08,445 --> 00:43:09,565
Speaker 4: waiting for you?

844
00:43:10,165 --> 00:43:11,485
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Jamie.

845
00:43:11,725 --> 00:43:14,125
Speaker 3: We always call him a pleaser. So Jamie's there to

846
00:43:14,205 --> 00:43:16,685
Speaker 3: ensure that everyone has fun. He loves being able to

847
00:43:16,725 --> 00:43:19,925
Speaker 3: give everyone that really nice high and that really beautiful connection.

848
00:43:20,685 --> 00:43:24,445
Speaker 3: Jamie and I both identify now more as monogamish, where

849
00:43:24,725 --> 00:43:27,525
Speaker 3: if the situation arises, then we're into it. There's no

850
00:43:27,725 --> 00:43:30,925
Speaker 3: set label that we fall under where you know, we

851
00:43:30,965 --> 00:43:34,325
Speaker 3: want to both be open. Jamie couldn't see himself either

852
00:43:34,365 --> 00:43:36,245
Speaker 3: being open, which is where that conversation about the.

853
00:43:36,165 --> 00:43:37,685
Speaker 2: Polygue didn't really work out.

854
00:43:38,285 --> 00:43:41,845
Speaker 3: We've had sex with multiple people before, both with couples

855
00:43:41,885 --> 00:43:44,965
Speaker 3: in groups with singles, so we've explored a lot of

856
00:43:45,005 --> 00:43:48,285
Speaker 3: those elements as well together. He was exploring it while

857
00:43:48,285 --> 00:43:51,165
Speaker 3: we were still dating at the beginning, to see what

858
00:43:51,285 --> 00:43:55,205
Speaker 3: he felt suited him. At the end, we figured we

859
00:43:55,445 --> 00:43:59,165
Speaker 3: felt really well matched together and we enjoyed exploring things together,

860
00:43:59,205 --> 00:44:02,845
Speaker 3: but having them as spontaneous moments rather than set plans

861
00:44:02,885 --> 00:44:05,365
Speaker 3: where this week we're going to go and have a

862
00:44:05,365 --> 00:44:07,645
Speaker 3: couple or this week we'll go and do an audio,

863
00:44:07,645 --> 00:44:08,885
Speaker 3: we'll go to a party, like it was just a

864
00:44:08,925 --> 00:44:11,325
Speaker 3: spur of the moment sort of situations that worked best

865
00:44:11,325 --> 00:44:12,085
Speaker 3: for us.

866
00:44:12,605 --> 00:44:15,285
Speaker 4: So, jess if you think about it now, or maybe

867
00:44:15,285 --> 00:44:19,085
Speaker 4: you were conscious of it at the time, inviting Jamie

868
00:44:19,245 --> 00:44:24,725
Speaker 4: to the club that first time, was it kind of

869
00:44:24,725 --> 00:44:26,285
Speaker 4: a taste.

870
00:44:26,645 --> 00:44:29,845
Speaker 3: Definitely for me because I had already established myself in

871
00:44:29,885 --> 00:44:33,405
Speaker 3: the club and in this lifestyle. It was very intentional

872
00:44:33,485 --> 00:44:35,805
Speaker 3: to see how he was with the type of people

873
00:44:35,805 --> 00:44:38,485
Speaker 3: that I was building my life with, and also to

874
00:44:38,605 --> 00:44:43,325
Speaker 3: understand if he was comfortable being able to communicate with

875
00:44:43,365 --> 00:44:47,925
Speaker 3: me if he wasn't right, and thankfully he succeeded very

876
00:44:48,005 --> 00:44:52,045
Speaker 3: very well. He was very much impressive. It actually helped

877
00:44:52,085 --> 00:44:55,365
Speaker 3: me find more things to love about him on that

878
00:44:55,485 --> 00:44:57,725
Speaker 3: day because he was able to help me out during

879
00:44:57,725 --> 00:45:00,485
Speaker 3: the venue set up and the closed down. He was

880
00:45:00,525 --> 00:45:03,205
Speaker 3: also able to hold conversations while I was off doing

881
00:45:03,765 --> 00:45:05,765
Speaker 3: my Jessica spiel at the.

882
00:45:05,685 --> 00:45:07,405
Speaker 2: Club and he was.

883
00:45:08,205 --> 00:45:10,405
Speaker 3: I think we actually ended up having sex in the

884
00:45:10,445 --> 00:45:13,845
Speaker 3: back storeroom, just out of being so sexually attracted to

885
00:45:13,885 --> 00:45:16,405
Speaker 3: the fact that he was a swimmer not a sinker.

886
00:45:16,885 --> 00:45:18,005
Speaker 1: Hey, what did he wear?

887
00:45:18,285 --> 00:45:20,725
Speaker 3: By the way, So he wears his I always call

888
00:45:20,725 --> 00:45:23,565
Speaker 3: it the classic Jamie look. He wears black jeans with

889
00:45:23,645 --> 00:45:25,885
Speaker 3: a black button up shirt and always a black blazer.

890
00:45:26,205 --> 00:45:29,285
Speaker 3: My boy doesn't have anything colorful in his wardrobe at all.

891
00:45:29,325 --> 00:45:31,885
Speaker 3: It's black, white, or gray, and he's got the salt

892
00:45:31,925 --> 00:45:33,685
Speaker 3: and pepper hair, so I think it really suits his

893
00:45:34,005 --> 00:45:34,965
Speaker 3: demeanor and his look.

894
00:45:35,285 --> 00:45:36,405
Speaker 1: And what do you wear?

895
00:45:36,805 --> 00:45:37,245
Speaker 2: Oh?

896
00:45:37,485 --> 00:45:40,645
Speaker 4: Is it different if you're going if you're working, But

897
00:45:40,725 --> 00:45:43,325
Speaker 4: then work might end up being pleasure as well.

898
00:45:43,565 --> 00:45:46,525
Speaker 2: Look, I wear whatever my mood is feeling.

899
00:45:47,205 --> 00:45:50,645
Speaker 3: I've learnt to be comfortable but be sexy, so I

900
00:45:50,685 --> 00:45:53,125
Speaker 3: try and wear generally, like a pants suit is my

901
00:45:53,205 --> 00:45:56,085
Speaker 3: go to right now, or a black dress. I'm really

902
00:45:56,125 --> 00:45:59,285
Speaker 3: loving like block colored pantsuits, so I wore a green.

903
00:45:59,085 --> 00:46:02,285
Speaker 2: One the other day. I've got a beautiful burgundy colored.

904
00:46:02,805 --> 00:46:06,245
Speaker 3: I always wear my trusty Louis Bitton's and if it's

905
00:46:06,285 --> 00:46:11,365
Speaker 3: a specialized event, you always find me in a glooms dress.

906
00:46:09,405 --> 00:46:13,485
Speaker 1: A glomish very cold.

907
00:46:13,925 --> 00:46:17,445
Speaker 3: It is very cold, but I overheat extremely quickly and

908
00:46:17,445 --> 00:46:20,525
Speaker 3: I'm always sweating up a storm, so I find it

909
00:46:20,565 --> 00:46:22,925
Speaker 3: actually the cold metal on me is amazing.

910
00:46:23,205 --> 00:46:26,565
Speaker 4: The other thing I'm curious about is my husband had

911
00:46:26,565 --> 00:46:30,285
Speaker 4: a couple of nightclubs, and when they're flying, they're great,

912
00:46:30,565 --> 00:46:34,725
Speaker 4: but most of the money is obviously from booze. But

913
00:46:34,805 --> 00:46:39,965
Speaker 4: because you because of licensing restrictions, you're a byo venue.

914
00:46:40,125 --> 00:46:40,725
Speaker 3: Yeah.

915
00:46:40,965 --> 00:46:44,645
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you're not making money from booze. How do

916
00:46:44,765 --> 00:46:48,925
Speaker 4: you make money? And is the business lucrative enough to

917
00:46:49,045 --> 00:46:52,245
Speaker 4: sustain you now and your partners?

918
00:46:52,525 --> 00:46:58,285
Speaker 3: Yeah so surprisingly, yes, it is extremely lucrative. It allows

919
00:46:58,365 --> 00:47:01,365
Speaker 3: us to have a full time manager, a full time

920
00:47:01,445 --> 00:47:04,325
Speaker 3: admin person and seventeen staff members.

921
00:47:04,525 --> 00:47:05,005
Speaker 1: Wow.

922
00:47:05,285 --> 00:47:07,845
Speaker 3: Yeah, So we make a lot of our money basically

923
00:47:07,885 --> 00:47:12,165
Speaker 3: through entry. We also have merchandise and we also have

924
00:47:12,205 --> 00:47:17,125
Speaker 3: an online members area, so having those different elements does

925
00:47:17,205 --> 00:47:18,885
Speaker 3: help keep it coming in.

926
00:47:18,965 --> 00:47:21,405
Speaker 2: But we also do operate four days a week.

927
00:47:21,485 --> 00:47:23,045
Speaker 1: Right, And do people join?

928
00:47:23,565 --> 00:47:26,685
Speaker 4: Can people join as like a subscription so they a

929
00:47:26,765 --> 00:47:28,685
Speaker 4: member of the club for a year or do they

930
00:47:28,725 --> 00:47:30,405
Speaker 4: pay per event?

931
00:47:31,005 --> 00:47:32,525
Speaker 2: Yeah? So people pay per event.

932
00:47:32,925 --> 00:47:35,605
Speaker 3: All our tickets are found online and we post them

933
00:47:35,605 --> 00:47:38,045
Speaker 3: all a month out. Most events are sold out two

934
00:47:38,125 --> 00:47:40,925
Speaker 3: to three days before the event actually happens.

935
00:47:41,405 --> 00:47:42,165
Speaker 2: When it comes to.

936
00:47:42,245 --> 00:47:46,405
Speaker 3: Membership, it's solely for an online forum where they can

937
00:47:46,445 --> 00:47:49,685
Speaker 3: talk and communicate with people who want to come to

938
00:47:49,725 --> 00:47:51,565
Speaker 3: the club, or haven't been to the club, or are

939
00:47:51,565 --> 00:47:53,645
Speaker 3: deciding to come to the club on a special event,

940
00:47:53,685 --> 00:47:55,125
Speaker 3: and they can discuss and talk about it.

941
00:47:55,165 --> 00:48:00,885
Speaker 1: There Hey, what snacks? Do you have? Sex makes you hungry?

942
00:48:01,565 --> 00:48:02,445
Speaker 1: What happens?

943
00:48:02,885 --> 00:48:05,525
Speaker 3: So we actually have an air fryer there, and we

944
00:48:05,605 --> 00:48:11,325
Speaker 3: love a good like Aaron Chiney boll mozzarealistic and my

945
00:48:11,485 --> 00:48:15,245
Speaker 3: manager is exceptional and will cut up carrot sticks for

946
00:48:15,285 --> 00:48:18,245
Speaker 3: people and have dip and carrot sticks for everyone.

947
00:48:18,405 --> 00:48:20,725
Speaker 1: So where do the carrot sticks end up? Jazz?

948
00:48:22,125 --> 00:48:25,405
Speaker 3: I'm hoping in their mouth, but anything's possible in the club.

949
00:48:26,565 --> 00:48:30,205
Speaker 4: Something I'm interested in is I found for me that

950
00:48:30,325 --> 00:48:34,005
Speaker 4: after I had children, and I've had four of them,

951
00:48:34,045 --> 00:48:38,525
Speaker 4: that my relationship, certainly in that immediate postpartum period, my

952
00:48:38,605 --> 00:48:41,445
Speaker 4: relationship with my body was very different than it had

953
00:48:41,485 --> 00:48:44,605
Speaker 4: been previous to having children, and I felt kind of

954
00:48:44,645 --> 00:48:47,565
Speaker 4: a bit more protective or a bit more vulnerable or

955
00:48:48,565 --> 00:48:51,685
Speaker 4: I really haven't analyzed it in terms of what it

956
00:48:51,725 --> 00:48:55,605
Speaker 4: would mean for you. Did you experience any of those

957
00:48:56,205 --> 00:48:58,245
Speaker 4: changes after you had your son?

958
00:48:58,925 --> 00:49:01,405
Speaker 3: Funny enough, I probably have had sex with Jamie with

959
00:49:01,445 --> 00:49:04,285
Speaker 3: more people since having Oliver, right.

960
00:49:04,485 --> 00:49:05,165
Speaker 2: I think it was just.

961
00:49:05,245 --> 00:49:08,085
Speaker 3: Our opportunities have become a little bit easier because now

962
00:49:08,085 --> 00:49:11,005
Speaker 3: we're finding couples or people who have kids as well,

963
00:49:11,445 --> 00:49:14,485
Speaker 3: and so our conversations feel a lot more comfortable, and

964
00:49:14,525 --> 00:49:17,445
Speaker 3: so I think that kind of flows really quickly into.

965
00:49:17,245 --> 00:49:19,325
Speaker 2: Being able to have sexual conversations.

966
00:49:19,485 --> 00:49:22,925
Speaker 3: But I definitely because I opted to have a C

967
00:49:23,125 --> 00:49:28,645
Speaker 3: section rather than giving a vaginal birth. I also pushed

968
00:49:28,645 --> 00:49:30,885
Speaker 3: myself when we traveled six weeks after giving birth to

969
00:49:30,925 --> 00:49:33,405
Speaker 3: Olli to go overseas for three weeks for two weddings.

970
00:49:34,005 --> 00:49:39,005
Speaker 3: So I think, again, I'm just very strong minded and

971
00:49:39,165 --> 00:49:41,005
Speaker 3: very strong willed, and if I want to do something,

972
00:49:41,085 --> 00:49:43,645
Speaker 3: I'm going to do it. I read up before having

973
00:49:43,685 --> 00:49:47,565
Speaker 3: Olli that people did somewhat lose themselves into becoming mothers,

974
00:49:47,725 --> 00:49:49,965
Speaker 3: or there was a lot of shift in how they

975
00:49:50,165 --> 00:49:53,005
Speaker 3: saw things. I think I've definitely become a lot more nurturing,

976
00:49:53,085 --> 00:49:56,445
Speaker 3: a lot more caring, but I've not tried to lose

977
00:49:56,485 --> 00:49:57,525
Speaker 3: the person that I was.

978
00:49:58,205 --> 00:50:01,285
Speaker 2: I think it does also help that I work extremely

979
00:50:01,525 --> 00:50:02,365
Speaker 2: crazy hours.

980
00:50:02,445 --> 00:50:04,885
Speaker 3: I'll do twelve hour days and then come home see

981
00:50:04,925 --> 00:50:07,885
Speaker 3: Ollie throughout the nighttime and then end up working until

982
00:50:07,925 --> 00:50:10,725
Speaker 3: one am and go to sleep. So so I think

983
00:50:11,085 --> 00:50:15,845
Speaker 3: I've just made it work rather than pulling back and

984
00:50:15,885 --> 00:50:19,205
Speaker 3: giving myself time to take on things that I didn't

985
00:50:19,245 --> 00:50:22,245
Speaker 3: know if I couldn't. Motherhood's definitely changed me in a

986
00:50:22,245 --> 00:50:26,525
Speaker 3: way of making me more loving and caring and consider it.

987
00:50:27,045 --> 00:50:29,205
Speaker 3: But it definitely didn't take away an my drive or

988
00:50:29,285 --> 00:50:30,445
Speaker 3: my sexuality.

989
00:50:31,285 --> 00:50:34,045
Speaker 4: And if you did find that, you were pulling in

990
00:50:34,085 --> 00:50:39,125
Speaker 4: a different direction. So you're monogamish, you and Jamie, But

991
00:50:39,205 --> 00:50:43,685
Speaker 4: if you wanted to be monogamous, how would that play

992
00:50:43,725 --> 00:50:45,205
Speaker 4: out within the relationship.

993
00:50:45,605 --> 00:50:49,365
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we've had that conversation before where sometimes we'll

994
00:50:49,405 --> 00:50:52,445
Speaker 3: feel like, you know, maybe we've had an experience where

995
00:50:52,445 --> 00:50:55,285
Speaker 3: that particular person and that couple didn't really suit our

996
00:50:55,405 --> 00:50:58,645
Speaker 3: vibe or how we sexually wanted to interact, and we've

997
00:50:58,685 --> 00:51:01,245
Speaker 3: pulled back. When we say we're monogamish, I think it's

998
00:51:01,285 --> 00:51:04,405
Speaker 3: more because I would be happy to just have sex

999
00:51:04,445 --> 00:51:06,765
Speaker 3: with Jamie for the rest of my life. But then

1000
00:51:06,805 --> 00:51:08,925
Speaker 3: there's times and moments where we both go, oh, this

1001
00:51:08,965 --> 00:51:11,445
Speaker 3: could be fun because we've experienced it before, so we

1002
00:51:12,045 --> 00:51:14,565
Speaker 3: have that taste already, so it's not something new that

1003
00:51:14,605 --> 00:51:17,645
Speaker 3: we're just starting to embark on. I think we've both

1004
00:51:17,925 --> 00:51:22,125
Speaker 3: sat there and understood that even though the options there,

1005
00:51:22,205 --> 00:51:24,885
Speaker 3: I don't think we always want to choose it because.

1006
00:51:24,605 --> 00:51:27,445
Speaker 2: We have solidified such a great relationship together.

1007
00:51:27,245 --> 00:51:31,285
Speaker 3: And it's very compact in how we sexually explore, because

1008
00:51:31,805 --> 00:51:35,405
Speaker 3: sometimes I'm more inclined to grab a toy out and

1009
00:51:35,405 --> 00:51:38,165
Speaker 3: play with a toy with Jamie then call up a

1010
00:51:38,205 --> 00:51:40,845
Speaker 3: couple or go to a swingers club. But I think

1011
00:51:40,885 --> 00:51:43,045
Speaker 3: also I get hindered by the fact that I own

1012
00:51:43,205 --> 00:51:44,325
Speaker 3: a swingers club, so.

1013
00:51:44,965 --> 00:51:47,605
Speaker 2: The only one I want to go is mine, And if.

1014
00:51:47,525 --> 00:51:49,445
Speaker 3: I go there, I end up working half the time,

1015
00:51:49,565 --> 00:51:51,805
Speaker 3: so it's not as it's not as easy to just

1016
00:51:52,125 --> 00:51:52,965
Speaker 3: slip that one in.

1017
00:51:53,325 --> 00:51:53,605
Speaker 1: Well.

1018
00:51:53,645 --> 00:51:55,885
Speaker 4: Also, because if you work for Coca Cola, you get

1019
00:51:55,965 --> 00:51:59,205
Speaker 4: sacked for drinking PAPSI, so you kind of have to

1020
00:51:59,405 --> 00:52:03,485
Speaker 4: You have to support your own business. But in light

1021
00:52:03,605 --> 00:52:08,125
Speaker 4: of that, if you're at a night at the club

1022
00:52:08,965 --> 00:52:15,045
Speaker 4: and and you're getting amongst it, yeah, and then Jamie's

1023
00:52:15,205 --> 00:52:19,925
Speaker 4: the Lawrence is there? Do you and Lawrence still get

1024
00:52:19,965 --> 00:52:24,005
Speaker 4: physically involved or did that end with your relationship ending?

1025
00:52:24,325 --> 00:52:24,525
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1026
00:52:24,525 --> 00:52:28,645
Speaker 3: That ended when our relationship ended. Lawrence and I strictly

1027
00:52:28,685 --> 00:52:31,125
Speaker 3: platonic now so we're just friends.

1028
00:52:31,245 --> 00:52:33,365
Speaker 1: Oh that's interesting, isn't it. Yeah?

1029
00:52:33,565 --> 00:52:38,245
Speaker 4: Did you make that decision for clarity or did attraction

1030
00:52:39,125 --> 00:52:42,405
Speaker 4: kind of, just like you said, become brotherly and sistently?

1031
00:52:42,485 --> 00:52:44,365
Speaker 1: What was the decision making?

1032
00:52:44,805 --> 00:52:48,845
Speaker 3: I think definitely for me, he changed in the way

1033
00:52:48,845 --> 00:52:50,885
Speaker 3: that I did see him more as like that older

1034
00:52:50,925 --> 00:52:54,845
Speaker 3: brother rather than as a sexual partner. I think it

1035
00:52:54,885 --> 00:52:57,005
Speaker 3: really helped that he was always that person I got

1036
00:52:57,045 --> 00:53:00,085
Speaker 3: advice from when I needed stuff about swinging, being the

1037
00:53:00,125 --> 00:53:03,805
Speaker 3: person that mentored me, I guess into it. I put

1038
00:53:03,885 --> 00:53:05,405
Speaker 3: him into more of a like.

1039
00:53:05,365 --> 00:53:06,325
Speaker 2: A brotherly hat.

1040
00:53:06,685 --> 00:53:08,805
Speaker 3: I think it also just really helped with our relationship

1041
00:53:08,845 --> 00:53:11,485
Speaker 3: to build us back up quickly as friends and to

1042
00:53:11,605 --> 00:53:15,445
Speaker 3: really strengthen that to not involve sex into it at all.

1043
00:53:15,925 --> 00:53:18,645
Speaker 3: I think sex sometimes, especially with x's, can get a

1044
00:53:18,645 --> 00:53:19,285
Speaker 3: bit messy.

1045
00:53:19,685 --> 00:53:23,205
Speaker 1: Do you a little bit it's happening.

1046
00:53:24,045 --> 00:53:27,845
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we just it was nice being able

1047
00:53:27,925 --> 00:53:31,365
Speaker 3: to put all of our energy into the club rather

1048
00:53:31,445 --> 00:53:34,365
Speaker 3: than trying to put into energy of making something like

1049
00:53:34,405 --> 00:53:37,965
Speaker 3: that work. I think also we both had found sexual

1050
00:53:38,045 --> 00:53:40,485
Speaker 3: partners that were ticking all the boxes that we needed,

1051
00:53:40,485 --> 00:53:42,085
Speaker 3: so I don't think we felt like we were missing

1052
00:53:42,085 --> 00:53:42,845
Speaker 3: that in each other.

1053
00:53:43,765 --> 00:53:46,765
Speaker 1: So then do you actively avoid each other?

1054
00:53:46,805 --> 00:53:50,165
Speaker 2: Because I know, no, we don't actively avoid each other.

1055
00:53:50,365 --> 00:53:54,365
Speaker 3: Okay, thankfully we kind of swing in different circles now

1056
00:53:54,525 --> 00:53:56,965
Speaker 3: funny enough, but we do have mutual friends that we

1057
00:53:57,005 --> 00:53:59,605
Speaker 3: cross over with We've not ever had to be in

1058
00:53:59,605 --> 00:54:02,765
Speaker 3: group situations where it's going to be awkward. We have

1059
00:54:02,845 --> 00:54:05,405
Speaker 3: had conversations about if we are in a group situation,

1060
00:54:05,525 --> 00:54:06,125
Speaker 3: we need to.

1061
00:54:06,045 --> 00:54:06,645
Speaker 2: Make that work.

1062
00:54:06,805 --> 00:54:09,765
Speaker 3: Yes, we're both adults, we've both run the club together

1063
00:54:09,805 --> 00:54:12,965
Speaker 3: for over a decade now, so I think we're very

1064
00:54:13,005 --> 00:54:16,045
Speaker 3: confident in the way that if Lawrence wanted to play

1065
00:54:16,045 --> 00:54:18,005
Speaker 3: with his wife in the room and I wanted to

1066
00:54:18,005 --> 00:54:20,285
Speaker 3: play with Jamie, we would just one of us would

1067
00:54:20,325 --> 00:54:21,045
Speaker 3: just make it work.

1068
00:54:20,845 --> 00:54:23,285
Speaker 2: And just go somewhere else, like it's there's nothing difficult

1069
00:54:23,325 --> 00:54:23,605
Speaker 2: to it.

1070
00:54:23,845 --> 00:54:27,525
Speaker 4: And then would Jamie and Lawrence's wife ever get together

1071
00:54:27,725 --> 00:54:27,925
Speaker 4: or not?

1072
00:54:28,205 --> 00:54:30,045
Speaker 3: No, So they've never got together, and I don't see

1073
00:54:30,085 --> 00:54:33,405
Speaker 3: that happening, not out of I think they both have

1074
00:54:33,525 --> 00:54:35,565
Speaker 3: attraction and they both think they're attractive, but I just

1075
00:54:35,605 --> 00:54:39,085
Speaker 3: don't think our relationship the four of us works that way.

1076
00:54:39,245 --> 00:54:39,445
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1077
00:54:39,645 --> 00:54:44,045
Speaker 4: I wanted to ask you about because I'm someone who

1078
00:54:44,805 --> 00:54:48,485
Speaker 4: doesn't feel a great degree of physical attraction to people

1079
00:54:48,565 --> 00:54:53,045
Speaker 4: without having some intellectual and emotional connection.

1080
00:54:53,445 --> 00:54:53,925
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1081
00:54:54,165 --> 00:54:58,445
Speaker 1: So at a swingers club, what is stronger?

1082
00:54:58,685 --> 00:55:02,645
Speaker 4: Is it the physical attraction and then you get immersed

1083
00:55:02,645 --> 00:55:03,965
Speaker 4: in the physical look.

1084
00:55:03,965 --> 00:55:05,845
Speaker 3: I think it's a bit of both people who have

1085
00:55:05,925 --> 00:55:08,045
Speaker 3: been to the club a lot more regularly find it's

1086
00:55:08,165 --> 00:55:11,605
Speaker 3: the more meant and I think for first time is

1087
00:55:11,725 --> 00:55:14,485
Speaker 3: it's more of a physical because you work off the

1088
00:55:14,525 --> 00:55:18,965
Speaker 3: easiest thing, and sites is always easier than having long,

1089
00:55:19,005 --> 00:55:20,125
Speaker 3: in depth conversations.

1090
00:55:20,645 --> 00:55:20,925
Speaker 2: Right.

1091
00:55:21,205 --> 00:55:24,645
Speaker 3: I do find physical does still take a big chunk

1092
00:55:24,805 --> 00:55:28,245
Speaker 3: into a lot of everyone's play or time with each other.

1093
00:55:28,845 --> 00:55:31,205
Speaker 3: Physical is normally the one that people get attracted to

1094
00:55:31,405 --> 00:55:35,845
Speaker 3: the easiest. But I think people stay or people build

1095
00:55:35,925 --> 00:55:40,925
Speaker 3: those extra connections with those mentally because they have similarities

1096
00:55:41,005 --> 00:55:43,125
Speaker 3: or they have something that they both actually want to

1097
00:55:43,165 --> 00:55:45,885
Speaker 3: try together, and I think that's why they kind of

1098
00:55:46,485 --> 00:55:48,885
Speaker 3: deviate to stay in relationships like that.

1099
00:55:49,205 --> 00:55:51,485
Speaker 4: It's interesting because I was listening to the podcast and

1100
00:55:51,565 --> 00:55:54,085
Speaker 4: you and Lawrence were talking to a couple who'd been

1101
00:55:54,725 --> 00:55:57,685
Speaker 4: to the club and they went kind of as newbies

1102
00:55:57,685 --> 00:56:01,405
Speaker 4: admits some people before for a drink and they went

1103
00:56:01,445 --> 00:56:03,445
Speaker 4: to the club and they were both like, when we're

1104
00:56:03,485 --> 00:56:06,445
Speaker 4: just coming to look, we just want to be able

1105
00:56:06,485 --> 00:56:08,285
Speaker 4: to have sex in front of other people.

1106
00:56:08,285 --> 00:56:09,205
Speaker 1: That's like our king.

1107
00:56:09,845 --> 00:56:13,805
Speaker 4: We're not going down the rabbit hole, We're not whatever,

1108
00:56:13,005 --> 00:56:18,685
Speaker 4: And then they ended up in basically an orgy. How

1109
00:56:18,725 --> 00:56:23,845
Speaker 4: often do you say inhibitions totally put to one side.

1110
00:56:24,325 --> 00:56:24,765
Speaker 2: Often.

1111
00:56:25,525 --> 00:56:28,525
Speaker 3: I think that's where we say, like, don't come with

1112
00:56:28,565 --> 00:56:32,925
Speaker 3: an expectation, because if you expect something to happen, you

1113
00:56:32,965 --> 00:56:35,245
Speaker 3: put such a pressure in yourself and it normally doesn't.

1114
00:56:35,285 --> 00:56:37,285
Speaker 3: So if people just come thinking we'll have a conversation,

1115
00:56:38,205 --> 00:56:42,205
Speaker 3: you're more likely to then feel comfortable to have conversations,

1116
00:56:42,205 --> 00:56:45,285
Speaker 3: to build yourself to jumping into a mill of an orgy.

1117
00:56:45,445 --> 00:56:49,885
Speaker 4: And then after that, I imagine that people sometimes have

1118
00:56:50,325 --> 00:56:55,445
Speaker 4: a very pronounced physical response, like it happens sometimes after

1119
00:56:55,485 --> 00:56:58,885
Speaker 4: a yoga class, So I can imagine after you've been

1120
00:56:58,925 --> 00:57:03,845
Speaker 4: involved in an orgy that it might throw up similar emotions.

1121
00:57:03,925 --> 00:57:05,525
Speaker 1: Do you witness that a lot?

1122
00:57:06,205 --> 00:57:09,165
Speaker 3: I think I witness a lot of people having con

1123
00:57:09,525 --> 00:57:13,885
Speaker 3: stations a little bit more in depth after an orgy

1124
00:57:14,765 --> 00:57:19,085
Speaker 3: and feeling a bit more attracted. I guess because they've

1125
00:57:19,125 --> 00:57:21,565
Speaker 3: had that sexual connection, but I don't think it. I

1126
00:57:21,565 --> 00:57:24,365
Speaker 3: think they still have that connection to their partners and

1127
00:57:24,885 --> 00:57:27,125
Speaker 3: kind of feel like they have them by their side,

1128
00:57:27,165 --> 00:57:29,965
Speaker 3: but they're able to then explore some of the other

1129
00:57:30,165 --> 00:57:31,245
Speaker 3: elements that they've just.

1130
00:57:31,285 --> 00:57:36,325
Speaker 4: Had and because it's so hardwide in us. Yeah, these

1131
00:57:36,405 --> 00:57:39,965
Speaker 4: notions of faithfulness and fidelity and.

1132
00:57:39,485 --> 00:57:41,205
Speaker 1: The association with shame.

1133
00:57:42,245 --> 00:57:46,485
Speaker 4: Do people feel that afterwards sometimes as well?

1134
00:57:46,925 --> 00:57:48,885
Speaker 2: Look, I think there is those ups in the downs.

1135
00:57:49,725 --> 00:57:52,645
Speaker 3: I know I've definitely had that kind of cloud that

1136
00:57:52,805 --> 00:57:55,445
Speaker 3: comes over after a moment and being like, Oh, should

1137
00:57:55,445 --> 00:57:58,925
Speaker 3: I have done that? Or did I like watching that part?

1138
00:57:59,165 --> 00:58:02,365
Speaker 3: Or did he noticed this or did I notice that? Like,

1139
00:58:02,365 --> 00:58:04,125
Speaker 3: I think you always have a doubt in your mind.

1140
00:58:04,165 --> 00:58:08,365
Speaker 3: I think doubt is prevalent in all types of situations.

1141
00:58:08,885 --> 00:58:12,205
Speaker 3: But I think I think having that conversation with your

1142
00:58:12,205 --> 00:58:17,565
Speaker 3: partner afterwards helps you re reconnect but also establish the

1143
00:58:17,605 --> 00:58:20,525
Speaker 3: fact that a lot of the time you'll find your

1144
00:58:20,565 --> 00:58:24,085
Speaker 3: partner saw something different to what you saw because everyone's

1145
00:58:24,125 --> 00:58:26,325
Speaker 3: got a different perspective. So we could be in the

1146
00:58:26,365 --> 00:58:31,285
Speaker 3: middle of like an augy situation and I've noticed Jamie's

1147
00:58:31,325 --> 00:58:34,605
Speaker 3: doing X, Y and Z, But then I'm like, oh,

1148
00:58:34,685 --> 00:58:36,925
Speaker 3: I've seen it from this perspective, but he's seeing me

1149
00:58:37,165 --> 00:58:39,685
Speaker 3: doing X, Y and Z and seeing that perspective. So

1150
00:58:40,405 --> 00:58:43,485
Speaker 3: we capture different moments while we're all interacting, which I

1151
00:58:43,525 --> 00:58:47,485
Speaker 3: think is it's great because then you realize that your

1152
00:58:47,525 --> 00:58:50,845
Speaker 3: partner's seeing the best and having composion for you, and

1153
00:58:51,445 --> 00:58:53,965
Speaker 3: you're having that composion for him and having that different

1154
00:58:54,805 --> 00:58:56,125
Speaker 3: perspective really helps you.

1155
00:58:56,165 --> 00:58:59,885
Speaker 2: Then, I guess for us, at least rehab sex.

1156
00:58:59,685 --> 00:59:03,725
Speaker 3: Again we end up finding that really fun element where

1157
00:59:04,085 --> 00:59:06,845
Speaker 3: I didn't realize he noticed me doing this, and he

1158
00:59:06,885 --> 00:59:09,365
Speaker 3: didn't realize I saw his like orgasm vase, which I

1159
00:59:09,405 --> 00:59:12,045
Speaker 3: always find amazing. So then we end up having sex

1160
00:59:12,085 --> 00:59:14,165
Speaker 3: again because we're like, well, that was really hot to

1161
00:59:14,365 --> 00:59:17,365
Speaker 3: A have a conversation about, but B see the fact

1162
00:59:17,445 --> 00:59:19,445
Speaker 3: that we were both having fun in that situation too.

1163
00:59:19,765 --> 00:59:24,525
Speaker 4: When you say Compersian, that is the concept of enjoying

1164
00:59:25,445 --> 00:59:27,045
Speaker 4: your partner's enjoyment.

1165
00:59:27,805 --> 00:59:32,845
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, So you have enjoyment or happiness or you

1166
00:59:32,925 --> 00:59:36,845
Speaker 3: get thrilled by the fact that your partner is sexually

1167
00:59:36,925 --> 00:59:41,125
Speaker 3: and emotionally enjoying themselves in that moment with that person,

1168
00:59:41,485 --> 00:59:42,365
Speaker 3: with that situation.

1169
00:59:43,245 --> 00:59:47,685
Speaker 4: Conversely, there must be instances because people are at their

1170
00:59:47,725 --> 00:59:52,045
Speaker 4: most vulnerable and the most exposed, where people are in

1171
00:59:52,245 --> 00:59:59,845
Speaker 4: danger of flouting people's boundaries, or where you're like, sometimes

1172
00:59:59,885 --> 01:00:02,685
Speaker 4: this seems like it's a bit borderline violent. Have you

1173
01:00:02,725 --> 01:00:05,885
Speaker 4: had instances like that and how do you intervene?

1174
01:00:06,445 --> 01:00:10,245
Speaker 3: So thankfully No, thankfully with the club as well, I

1175
01:00:10,285 --> 01:00:14,045
Speaker 3: think we're so prominent with the fact that we need

1176
01:00:14,085 --> 01:00:17,085
Speaker 3: to be sure everyone's feeling safe and protected and sexy,

1177
01:00:17,605 --> 01:00:20,845
Speaker 3: that we never really get those really.

1178
01:00:20,645 --> 01:00:22,245
Speaker 2: Dangerous or bad moments.

1179
01:00:22,285 --> 01:00:26,125
Speaker 3: I think also people come, especially to the club, or

1180
01:00:26,125 --> 01:00:29,725
Speaker 3: at least when I've experienced stuff, it's people are coming

1181
01:00:29,765 --> 01:00:34,925
Speaker 3: to want to enhance the relationships or enhance themselves rather

1182
01:00:35,005 --> 01:00:38,525
Speaker 3: than take out on somebody or do it for a

1183
01:00:38,565 --> 01:00:41,285
Speaker 3: negative or an angry way.

1184
01:00:41,605 --> 01:00:43,645
Speaker 2: I know there's definitely moments where people get angry.

1185
01:00:43,765 --> 01:00:48,205
Speaker 4: Yeah, because I would think that people because it's such

1186
01:00:48,245 --> 01:00:53,165
Speaker 4: a primal for someone's sexuality, I would think that maybe

1187
01:00:53,205 --> 01:00:57,645
Speaker 4: in those moments, you've witnessed things that are like, oh,

1188
01:00:57,685 --> 01:00:59,525
Speaker 4: we just need to keep an eye on this. Or

1189
01:01:00,165 --> 01:01:02,045
Speaker 4: have you ever had to ask anyone to leave?

1190
01:01:02,485 --> 01:01:04,325
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've definitely had to ask people to leave, But

1191
01:01:04,365 --> 01:01:07,645
Speaker 3: it's mainly because they've got a bit too intoxicated. I

1192
01:01:07,685 --> 01:01:10,285
Speaker 3: think people get a bit, a bit worried or a

1193
01:01:10,325 --> 01:01:12,325
Speaker 3: bit concerned that they may not be enough or they

1194
01:01:12,365 --> 01:01:15,285
Speaker 3: may not perform. And as much as we can tell

1195
01:01:15,325 --> 01:01:17,845
Speaker 3: people not to drink too much, sometimes people just drink

1196
01:01:17,885 --> 01:01:18,445
Speaker 3: too quickly.

1197
01:01:19,085 --> 01:01:21,325
Speaker 2: With the whole primal thing, I think a lot of that.

1198
01:01:21,445 --> 01:01:25,165
Speaker 3: Especially because as sex involved, people already have one layer

1199
01:01:25,205 --> 01:01:28,245
Speaker 3: of themselves off, so they're a little bit more, a

1200
01:01:28,245 --> 01:01:31,565
Speaker 3: bit more intimidated, a bit more observant of the fact

1201
01:01:31,605 --> 01:01:36,685
Speaker 3: that they are exposed. And I think you find people

1202
01:01:36,765 --> 01:01:39,285
Speaker 3: aren't as primarily aggressive.

1203
01:01:39,365 --> 01:01:41,325
Speaker 2: It's more they bring out that.

1204
01:01:41,285 --> 01:01:44,245
Speaker 3: Please aside in them where they want to be pleased,

1205
01:01:44,245 --> 01:01:47,445
Speaker 3: but then they want to please that person. And when

1206
01:01:47,605 --> 01:01:50,005
Speaker 3: you sense all that vibe around the room, I think

1207
01:01:50,045 --> 01:01:52,165
Speaker 3: a lot of the female energy, which is why we

1208
01:01:52,205 --> 01:01:54,725
Speaker 3: have a heavier way in having females in the club,

1209
01:01:54,805 --> 01:01:59,165
Speaker 3: really brings in that sensuality rather than aggression.

1210
01:02:00,285 --> 01:02:05,245
Speaker 1: Why had no one thought to appeal to women before.

1211
01:02:05,685 --> 01:02:08,885
Speaker 2: I think it was just a lot of men around clubs.

1212
01:02:09,445 --> 01:02:11,885
Speaker 3: I was one of the first women to run a

1213
01:02:11,885 --> 01:02:15,645
Speaker 3: club with my partner, and I like it's definitely become

1214
01:02:15,685 --> 01:02:18,365
Speaker 3: a lot more evident in clubs that are now opening

1215
01:02:18,405 --> 01:02:21,525
Speaker 3: up in other states that it's couples opening clubs rather

1216
01:02:21,565 --> 01:02:25,645
Speaker 3: than men opening clubs. From my understanding, all the clubs

1217
01:02:25,725 --> 01:02:29,925
Speaker 3: prior to our Secret Spot were all solely based ran

1218
01:02:29,965 --> 01:02:33,165
Speaker 3: by men, and I think because of that, it was

1219
01:02:33,325 --> 01:02:35,365
Speaker 3: very much a man's game. I know, I got a

1220
01:02:35,405 --> 01:02:38,685
Speaker 3: lot of hate, a lot of you know, I was

1221
01:02:38,765 --> 01:02:41,045
Speaker 3: the too young person who is like, had no idea

1222
01:02:41,045 --> 01:02:43,485
Speaker 3: what she was doing bringing in this industry, like it's

1223
01:02:43,525 --> 01:02:45,605
Speaker 3: all about the men, and I wanted to make sure

1224
01:02:45,645 --> 01:02:48,045
Speaker 3: it was definitely not about the men. And I think

1225
01:02:48,205 --> 01:02:51,685
Speaker 3: I was very fortunate in finding other people to support

1226
01:02:51,725 --> 01:02:52,565
Speaker 3: me on that element.

1227
01:02:52,725 --> 01:02:54,525
Speaker 2: And I think with that shift.

1228
01:02:54,245 --> 01:02:57,805
Speaker 3: That we've had throughout the years, it definitely women do

1229
01:02:57,925 --> 01:03:00,845
Speaker 3: dictate a lot of what happens inside the club and

1230
01:03:00,885 --> 01:03:04,165
Speaker 3: inside the lifestyle, because if women are comfortable, women are

1231
01:03:04,165 --> 01:03:07,885
Speaker 3: more vocal than men are, so having that comfort from

1232
01:03:07,965 --> 01:03:12,285
Speaker 3: us really allowed to explore and continue to have the club.

1233
01:03:12,925 --> 01:03:16,605
Speaker 4: Who do you think is more open minded men or women?

1234
01:03:17,685 --> 01:03:21,005
Speaker 3: I think it's definitely shifting to be both. I think

1235
01:03:21,085 --> 01:03:27,445
Speaker 3: before women were a bit more open minded, but I think, look,

1236
01:03:27,685 --> 01:03:29,725
Speaker 3: I think it's kind of fifty to fifty. I think

1237
01:03:29,765 --> 01:03:31,885
Speaker 3: we just have different perspectives on what we think or

1238
01:03:31,925 --> 01:03:33,805
Speaker 3: what we want as an open mind. I know in

1239
01:03:33,805 --> 01:03:37,405
Speaker 3: the club, at least swing wise, it's more common to

1240
01:03:37,445 --> 01:03:41,005
Speaker 3: have bisexual women or more of that women interaction play,

1241
01:03:41,805 --> 01:03:44,005
Speaker 3: but we've definitely started in the past couple of years

1242
01:03:44,005 --> 01:03:46,805
Speaker 3: to see a lot more bisexual play from men. I

1243
01:03:46,805 --> 01:03:49,005
Speaker 3: think also the style of events that we're starting to

1244
01:03:49,085 --> 01:03:51,205
Speaker 3: host is bringing a lot more of that. So I

1245
01:03:51,245 --> 01:03:56,285
Speaker 3: think as an explorative type, I think we're both equally

1246
01:03:56,365 --> 01:03:59,645
Speaker 3: as explorative, and especially if you're given an environment where

1247
01:03:59,725 --> 01:04:03,405
Speaker 3: you feel safe to do anything that sits in the

1248
01:04:03,445 --> 01:04:05,005
Speaker 3: realm of safe and consensual.

1249
01:04:05,325 --> 01:04:06,925
Speaker 2: I think everyone's going to give it a go.

1250
01:04:07,805 --> 01:04:12,885
Speaker 4: Your son, when will he find out what your business is?

1251
01:04:13,285 --> 01:04:17,205
Speaker 4: So he's two now, so he's a while off. I

1252
01:04:17,205 --> 01:04:22,005
Speaker 4: imagine he didn't bring your parents to work. I can't

1253
01:04:22,045 --> 01:04:25,085
Speaker 4: imagine you'll bring a kid to work day. But you

1254
01:04:25,205 --> 01:04:28,605
Speaker 4: must have discussed with Jamie when you'll introduce him to

1255
01:04:30,005 --> 01:04:31,605
Speaker 4: a concept of what you do.

1256
01:04:31,885 --> 01:04:35,605
Speaker 3: Or we'd always discussed as soon as he was understanding

1257
01:04:35,765 --> 01:04:39,205
Speaker 3: of what it was, we'd broach the subject. We wouldn't

1258
01:04:39,245 --> 01:04:42,645
Speaker 3: obviously dig deep into it, but we would definitely brush

1259
01:04:42,685 --> 01:04:45,405
Speaker 3: on the topic that you know, mum owns a swingers club.

1260
01:04:45,965 --> 01:04:48,325
Speaker 3: We try and use words like the lifestyle club, it's

1261
01:04:48,365 --> 01:04:51,085
Speaker 3: an adult playground, that sort of things to give those

1262
01:04:51,205 --> 01:04:55,725
Speaker 3: terminologies that everything's consensual, it's nothing.

1263
01:04:55,525 --> 01:04:57,285
Speaker 2: Bad, it's just a lifestyle choice.

1264
01:04:57,365 --> 01:05:01,805
Speaker 3: Sometimes it's a decision in how people want to explore themselves.

1265
01:05:02,245 --> 01:05:04,365
Speaker 3: I think as long as we continue to have that

1266
01:05:04,445 --> 01:05:08,485
Speaker 3: really open clarity about it. I think early on Ollie

1267
01:05:08,525 --> 01:05:12,445
Speaker 3: will probably be quite well aware of it and hopefully

1268
01:05:12,525 --> 01:05:16,205
Speaker 3: be a good advocate to his generation, because I think

1269
01:05:16,325 --> 01:05:19,725
Speaker 3: the more that we can educate everyone, the better it'll get.

1270
01:05:19,885 --> 01:05:23,325
Speaker 4: At what age do you think, in an abstract sceence,

1271
01:05:23,485 --> 01:05:24,765
Speaker 4: that that would happen.

1272
01:05:25,325 --> 01:05:28,205
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm hoping it's when he gets into high school,

1273
01:05:28,485 --> 01:05:30,365
Speaker 3: right just before he hits into.

1274
01:05:30,205 --> 01:05:31,725
Speaker 2: That high school teen years.

1275
01:05:31,845 --> 01:05:35,085
Speaker 3: But I mean, it could be later, but I sense

1276
01:05:35,125 --> 01:05:36,645
Speaker 3: it'll be earlier, just because we're.

1277
01:05:36,525 --> 01:05:40,805
Speaker 4: So open and with socials, with socials, yeah, and other kids,

1278
01:05:40,845 --> 01:05:41,805
Speaker 4: it could be earlier.

1279
01:05:42,085 --> 01:05:44,205
Speaker 3: I have a suspicion that it probably will be earlier,

1280
01:05:44,285 --> 01:05:46,605
Speaker 3: especially with the way that, like you said, social media

1281
01:05:46,605 --> 01:05:50,005
Speaker 3: has taken off the amount of things. I've watched women

1282
01:05:50,125 --> 01:05:54,805
Speaker 3: put condoms onto bananas in TikTok, and it's just that

1283
01:05:55,005 --> 01:05:56,925
Speaker 3: was something if I watched on Instagram when I was

1284
01:05:56,925 --> 01:05:58,805
Speaker 3: in my twenties, it would be banned. I would never

1285
01:05:58,885 --> 01:06:00,885
Speaker 3: be able to have any social media account. Now it's

1286
01:06:00,925 --> 01:06:05,685
Speaker 3: like an educational purpose. So I'm hoping as the world

1287
01:06:05,725 --> 01:06:08,765
Speaker 3: continues to grow that Ollie will grow with that and

1288
01:06:08,805 --> 01:06:11,005
Speaker 3: be the advocate that we are for the.

1289
01:06:10,965 --> 01:06:13,205
Speaker 1: Club speaking of condoms.

1290
01:06:13,525 --> 01:06:16,005
Speaker 4: One of the things that I think has connected you

1291
01:06:16,085 --> 01:06:19,925
Speaker 4: with the people that you know enjoy our secret spot

1292
01:06:20,125 --> 01:06:22,925
Speaker 4: is the kind of humor that you bring to it

1293
01:06:23,005 --> 01:06:29,085
Speaker 4: that often I think was removed from sexual encounters. And

1294
01:06:29,405 --> 01:06:31,525
Speaker 4: it made me laugh when I saw a picture of

1295
01:06:31,565 --> 01:06:36,365
Speaker 4: your condom dispenses and it was regular large A puppy.

1296
01:06:36,805 --> 01:06:40,765
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, maybe it's important to have a bit of

1297
01:06:40,845 --> 01:06:44,725
Speaker 3: humor in it. Embarrassing moments happened during sex as well,

1298
01:06:44,765 --> 01:06:46,765
Speaker 3: so I think as long as you can see the

1299
01:06:46,845 --> 01:06:49,885
Speaker 3: light and happy in it all, it actually does make

1300
01:06:49,885 --> 01:06:53,885
Speaker 3: the experience better. But I'm always impressed when somebody thinks

1301
01:06:53,885 --> 01:06:56,925
Speaker 3: they're and I are puppy condom size because I can.

1302
01:06:57,525 --> 01:07:01,005
Speaker 2: Being over my hand. So it's a big keena.

1303
01:07:01,205 --> 01:07:01,805
Speaker 1: Yeah right.

1304
01:07:02,605 --> 01:07:07,085
Speaker 4: How many genuine eye puppies are there on a standard weekend?

1305
01:07:07,565 --> 01:07:08,125
Speaker 1: Maybe one?

1306
01:07:08,645 --> 01:07:11,805
Speaker 3: Oh, Look, we have up to one hundred and forty

1307
01:07:11,805 --> 01:07:14,805
Speaker 3: people every event, so I'm going to say maybe like

1308
01:07:14,965 --> 01:07:18,405
Speaker 3: a handful of those would fit that condom size more

1309
01:07:18,445 --> 01:07:21,765
Speaker 3: often than not. The regular is the size that a

1310
01:07:21,805 --> 01:07:25,085
Speaker 3: lot of people are so, like you're six to seven inches,

1311
01:07:25,445 --> 01:07:29,525
Speaker 3: That's why it's called regular, right, It's the size that

1312
01:07:29,565 --> 01:07:32,285
Speaker 3: most people take. But you find a lot of people

1313
01:07:32,365 --> 01:07:35,765
Speaker 3: use a large size. But honestly, when you're at the club,

1314
01:07:35,765 --> 01:07:37,805
Speaker 3: people aren't looking at what the condom size you're taking.

1315
01:07:38,005 --> 01:07:40,165
Speaker 3: They're just looking at you're putting a condom on. That's

1316
01:07:40,165 --> 01:07:42,805
Speaker 3: all they care about. A lot of men who come

1317
01:07:42,925 --> 01:07:45,965
Speaker 3: regularly or come with their partners are confident enough to

1318
01:07:46,005 --> 01:07:46,885
Speaker 3: grab the right size.

1319
01:07:46,885 --> 01:07:48,645
Speaker 2: But you find first timers always go.

1320
01:07:48,645 --> 01:07:51,885
Speaker 3: For the bigger size just to give themselves that little

1321
01:07:51,925 --> 01:07:54,685
Speaker 3: bignuroty that they're a bit bigger than they are. But

1322
01:07:54,765 --> 01:07:56,165
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, as long as you

1323
01:07:56,285 --> 01:08:00,245
Speaker 3: do well with that pennis or whatever, then I'm happy.

1324
01:08:00,565 --> 01:08:03,245
Speaker 4: Like a teenager at a seven eleven, they're trying to

1325
01:08:03,245 --> 01:08:07,805
Speaker 4: big themselves up. Yeah, Jessica, Telly, you are so fascinating.

1326
01:08:07,845 --> 01:08:11,605
Speaker 1: Where do you think in ten years time you'll.

1327
01:08:11,365 --> 01:08:16,205
Speaker 3: Be probably still doing this. I have found my passion

1328
01:08:16,245 --> 01:08:19,285
Speaker 3: in this. I enjoy being able to be an advocate

1329
01:08:19,325 --> 01:08:23,125
Speaker 3: for something that ten years ago wasn't easy to talk about,

1330
01:08:23,205 --> 01:08:25,565
Speaker 3: So I'm more than happy to continue doing this. I

1331
01:08:25,605 --> 01:08:29,245
Speaker 3: think Lawrence and I are both wanting to expand the business,

1332
01:08:29,285 --> 01:08:32,485
Speaker 3: so we're looking to do a full Eastern seaboard takeover

1333
01:08:33,165 --> 01:08:34,285
Speaker 3: within the next ten years.

1334
01:08:34,325 --> 01:08:35,645
Speaker 1: So a franchise.

1335
01:08:36,045 --> 01:08:38,885
Speaker 3: Yeah, keep going, keep building, make our secret spot all

1336
01:08:38,965 --> 01:08:39,925
Speaker 3: up and down the coast.

1337
01:08:40,045 --> 01:08:41,325
Speaker 2: But yeah, definitely building on that.

1338
01:08:41,925 --> 01:08:43,645
Speaker 3: Jamie and I are in the talks of having our

1339
01:08:43,685 --> 01:08:47,325
Speaker 3: second child soon, so I'm just ensuring that all works

1340
01:08:47,325 --> 01:08:50,485
Speaker 3: out really nicely before we open a second business.

1341
01:08:50,805 --> 01:08:53,005
Speaker 4: Well, Jesse, I don't know how much you know about sex,

1342
01:08:53,045 --> 01:08:55,485
Speaker 4: but you know babies don't come through talking.

1343
01:08:57,085 --> 01:08:58,725
Speaker 2: Yes, well, we've definitely practiced.

1344
01:08:58,805 --> 01:09:02,325
Speaker 3: I've just I've just held off of the securing the

1345
01:09:02,365 --> 01:09:03,445
Speaker 3: practice inside.

1346
01:09:03,805 --> 01:09:07,165
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, okay, Okay, Jessica Kelly, thank you so much

1347
01:09:07,205 --> 01:09:09,325
Speaker 4: for joining us on No Filters.

1348
01:09:09,325 --> 01:09:09,645
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1349
01:09:12,085 --> 01:09:15,645
Speaker 4: That was Jess Katlly, a woman who's built her life

1350
01:09:15,685 --> 01:09:22,525
Speaker 4: around curiosity, connection, and an unconventional idea of what relationships

1351
01:09:22,565 --> 01:09:26,045
Speaker 4: can look like. Whether or not her choices are for you,

1352
01:09:26,685 --> 01:09:28,885
Speaker 4: what's clear is that Jess has found a way to

1353
01:09:29,005 --> 01:09:34,245
Speaker 4: talk about sex, jealousy, and love with unusual honesty and

1354
01:09:34,525 --> 01:09:38,045
Speaker 4: a good dose of humor. Thanks for listening to No Filter.

1355
01:09:38,525 --> 01:09:41,485
Speaker 4: The executive producer of No Filter is Nama Brown. The

1356
01:09:41,565 --> 01:09:45,325
Speaker 4: senior producer is Pre Player. Audio production is by Jacob Brown,

1357
01:09:45,405 --> 01:09:49,005
Speaker 4: and video editing is by Josh Green. This episode was

1358
01:09:49,045 --> 01:09:52,885
Speaker 4: recorded at Session in Progress Studios and I'm your host,

1359
01:09:53,365 --> 01:09:54,165
Speaker 4: Kate Laine Brook.

1360
01:09:54,685 --> 01:10:01,925
Speaker 1: See you next Monday.