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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's this discussion that's been going on for

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Speaker 3: thirty years about whether girl power was the savior of

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Speaker 3: modern feminism or the killer of it, and I think

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Speaker 3: it was probably neither.

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Speaker 1: Girl Power was very much about women not being passive,

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Speaker 1: women being active, that sense of female friendship as opposed

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Speaker 1: to female competition to get a guy. So all of

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Speaker 1: that was I won't say transgressive, but it was certainly fresh.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia out loud what women

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Speaker 2: are actually talking about on Monday, the twenty sixth of May.

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Speaker 1: I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm Mea.

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Speaker 3: Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.

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Speaker 2: And as you might be able to hear, although we're

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Speaker 2: back from talk, we're not quite back in our new

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Speaker 2: studios yet. This week we will be. So if we

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Speaker 2: sound little bit different, that's why. But on today's show,

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Speaker 2: a joyful celebration of a mighty milestone or an opportunity

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Speaker 2: to show off your new face. What celebrity hens parties

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Speaker 2: tell us about our own also millennial icon Jin Despice

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Speaker 2: has unilaterally declared the death of girl power. Sad farewell

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Speaker 2: or good riddance? And why those weird little monsters hanging

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Speaker 2: off cool people's bags tell us a lot about our

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Speaker 2: state of mind. Welcome to the Labooboo era of infinite childhood.

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Speaker 2: But first, Mia Friedman.

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Speaker 3: In case you.

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Speaker 1: Missed it, former Vice president and presidential runner up Kamala

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Speaker 1: Harris was on the Gold Coast yesterday to speak at

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Speaker 1: the Australian Real Estate Conference. Maybe you bumped into it.

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Speaker 1: I don't think she went to what a world, but

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Speaker 1: maybe she did have a quick swim at the beach.

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Speaker 2: She didn't come to our show in Brisbane last week,

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Speaker 2: did she?

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Speaker 1: That was rude and I think she was only there

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Speaker 1: for a day, like she flew in and she flew out.

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Speaker 1: So in case you're wondering why she was at the

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Speaker 1: real estate conference, of all the things that she might

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Speaker 1: be doing, she does have a little more time on

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Speaker 1: her hands now that she's not running for president or

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Speaker 1: being the vice president. Her relevance to this particular conference

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Speaker 1: was the cross section of politics and real estate. She

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Speaker 1: recalled her experience when she was California's Attorney general and

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Speaker 1: she refused a four billion dollar deal from major banks

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Speaker 1: to settle dodgy mortgage deals. But the thing to take

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Speaker 1: away from this really is that even former president's, vice

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Speaker 1: president's prime ministers they need a side hustle because they

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Speaker 1: got to earn some coin.

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Speaker 2: I found this really interesting because I saw on the

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Speaker 2: weekend I saw some pat pictures of Kamala having a

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Speaker 2: fancy dinner in Sydney, and I was like, Oh, how exciting.

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Speaker 2: I wonder why she's here. And then when I saw

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Speaker 2: that she was doing this thing on the Goldie until

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Speaker 2: you just explained that bit to me, Mia, I was like,

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Speaker 2: why Kamala? Why real estate? If you're going to pay

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Speaker 2: lots and lots of money, they have a big name

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Speaker 2: come and talk at your real estate conference, wouldn't it

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Speaker 2: be better togain like someone from selling Sunset or something. Ha.

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Speaker 1: That would have been great. Actually, the thing with conferences

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Speaker 1: is that they're a whole industry unto themselves, and what

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Speaker 1: they need to do is they need to sell tickets,

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Speaker 1: and to sell tickets, they've got to have keynote speakers.

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Speaker 1: So I've been on the keynote speakers circuit. You can

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Speaker 1: pretty much book anybody from me. I don't do it anymore,

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Speaker 1: but Jesse's done it before. And all of these conferences,

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Speaker 1: you know, industry conferences. They're not necessarily open to the public,

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Speaker 1: but they have to have names that people want to

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Speaker 1: listen to with some tangible connection to their industry. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've spoken it dentist conferences, I've spoken it real estate conferences.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it was this one. I used

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Speaker 1: to do it quite a lot.

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Speaker 3: The idea of Kamala trying to tailor her keynote to

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Speaker 3: real estate agents in the Gold Coast is my favorite

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Speaker 3: fact of the week. And I also read about who

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Speaker 3: else was doing it. So when I did a keynote

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Speaker 3: quite recently, Julie Goodwin and Yelena Dokitch were also talking.

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Speaker 3: Who are just such professionals with incredible stories who would

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Speaker 3: have their keynote down pat And I felt totally out

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Speaker 3: of my depth, And I keep thinking about at this conference.

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Speaker 3: There was Kamala Harris, there was Steven Bartlett, who is

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Speaker 3: the one of the biggest podcasts in the world, and

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Speaker 3: then there was Sydney real estate agent David Walker. And

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Speaker 3: I'm sure that David Walker is a great real estate agent,

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Speaker 3: but I like thinking about David Walker calling them up

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Speaker 3: and going, yee yep, what do you want me to

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Speaker 3: talk about? Cool?

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Speaker 1: Cool?

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Speaker 3: Who else is talking? Kamala Harris Okay, all right, I

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Speaker 3: will work on my speech then.

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Speaker 1: So she's rumored to have been paid anywhere between two

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Speaker 1: hundred and two hundred and fifty thousand dollars for this

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Speaker 1: kind of fireside chat. Obama's done it. You can you know,

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Speaker 1: book all sorts of prime ministers, sports stars, celebrities pay

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Speaker 1: for play.

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Speaker 3: For that money, that's too much pressure for me. I

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Speaker 3: would say no, no, no, pay me less, because my

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Speaker 3: speech isn't going to be two hundred thousand dollars worthy.

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Speaker 1: The good news is that you would be paid less, Jesson.

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Speaker 2: The fact that the Gold Coast real estate people have

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Speaker 2: the kind of money that buys you Stephen Bartlet and

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Speaker 2: Kamala Harris not good news for those people saving for

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Speaker 2: a deposit for hours.

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Speaker 3: In case you missed it, the Kardashians had a lot

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Speaker 3: to celebrate this weekend. First, Kim Kardashian graduated from law school. Second,

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Speaker 3: Chris Jenner debuted her new face. So for six years,

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Speaker 3: Kardashian has been studying her law program and upon completion,

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Speaker 3: she decided to hold a private backyard ceremony to mark

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Speaker 3: the milestone. So to be clear, this wasn't at a university.

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Speaker 3: Oh sorry, you two have never graduated, so as the

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Speaker 3: only person here who's graduated.

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Speaker 1: Well, see, we're easily impressed. We were like, that seems legit.

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Speaker 1: Can she be my lawyer? Now?

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Speaker 3: So when I graduated, it was held at the university,

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Speaker 3: and you go and hire a gown, you hire a hat,

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Speaker 3: and you do a ceremony, and someone might speak, and

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Speaker 3: you go and you shake your hand. Right now, That's

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Speaker 3: not what happened for Kim. It was in the backyard,

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Speaker 3: her backyard, and she hired or bought a nude gown

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Speaker 3: and a nude hat, which is not customary. But we

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Speaker 3: know that it's in her color palace.

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Speaker 2: I doubt she hired it Jesse to be she.

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Speaker 3: Might've had Skims make it for her. She still needs

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Speaker 3: to pass the California Bar Exam to become a licensed attorney.

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Speaker 3: Any questions or comments before I move on too, Chris's face.

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Speaker 2: Look, I was very impressed by this because I know

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Speaker 2: people get upset when we talk about the Kardashians, and

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Speaker 2: people get upset about the Kardashians in general for lots

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Speaker 2: of reasons. But these women have now been with increasing

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Speaker 2: cultural relevance, really very prominent in our culture for nearly

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Speaker 2: twenty years. Right, Everything they do, everything they wear, everything

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Speaker 2: they say, everything they try and sell us like it

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Speaker 2: says something about the world we live in. And I'm

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Speaker 2: very impressed that Kim has become Look, i'm not going

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Speaker 2: to say a lawyer, let's say lawyer adjacent. I'm very

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Speaker 2: impressed that Kim has become lawyer adjacent because she has

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Speaker 2: picked up a cause that is very un sexy, which

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Speaker 2: is prison reform, Like nobody saw that coming for her,

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Speaker 2: and apparently, by all accounts, she's very serious about it.

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Speaker 2: So when I was looking at the Instagram things, I

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Speaker 2: saw her with a hat on, like celebrating and throwing

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Speaker 2: it in the air, and I was like, that's great.

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Speaker 2: And then when you dig a bit and you're like, oh,

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Speaker 2: that isn't what everybody else was doing. Like she had

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Speaker 2: a special as you've already outlined, the gowns and the

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Speaker 2: table setting, and the kids were all dressed in little

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Speaker 2: business suits with briefcases, and they all walked in like

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Speaker 2: little lawyers to it, like it's the most Kardashian take

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Speaker 2: on what being a lawyer looks like. But I'm here

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Speaker 2: for it.

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Speaker 1: It's very cosplay and it's very do it for the gram.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting because there are two different things here. There's

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Speaker 1: the fact that she's studied, and whether you Kim Kardashian

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Speaker 1: or not, you still have to do some study, Like

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Speaker 1: you can't just phone this in. So it's not like

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Speaker 1: she hasn't worked hard over a long period of time

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Speaker 1: to get to this point, like all legal students. But

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Speaker 1: then it's the play of it all. It's the need

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Speaker 1: to do live action or laping live action or play

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Speaker 1: of you know, the performative side of being a lawyer

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Speaker 1: in a gown and doing all of that. And I

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Speaker 1: guess it's very smart. This is why the Kardashians have

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Speaker 1: had such a stranglehold on the culture for so long

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Speaker 1: and continue to in many ways, is that they know

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Speaker 1: that for the media to run a story, they need images.

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Speaker 1: They need pictures for things to go viral, to stay

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Speaker 1: culturally relevant. It's now about video. You know, holding a

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Speaker 1: certificate is not going to cut it. Most people didn't

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Speaker 1: read the fine print and they're like, oh, Kim Kardashian's lawyer.

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Speaker 1: Now that's been how it's been mostly reported and received.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So Jenna, the mother of Kardashian, who this year

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Speaker 3: is turning seventy, was pictured leaving an event in Paris,

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Speaker 3: and we are going to get into the details of

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Speaker 3: that event later. But when people saw this video, they

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Speaker 3: were like, yeah, yeah, look it's Kim Kardashian in Paris,

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Speaker 3: until they did a double take and they went, no,

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Speaker 3: that is her mother, who was thirty five years older.

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Speaker 3: We know that she sees this New York plastic surgeon.

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Speaker 3: She's talked about him before and some work she's had done,

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Speaker 3: but she now looks ai generated. Have you guys seen

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Speaker 3: the pictures?

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Speaker 1: Oh, I've looked at a little else. Over the weekend and

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Speaker 1: over last week, this went through all my group chats

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Speaker 1: where I sent it to some people and people were like, oh, Kim, wait,

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Speaker 1: who is that not realizing And there's been a lot

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Speaker 1: of commentary about how this is the new generation of

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Speaker 1: plastic surgery. We saw it on Lindsay Lohan Demi Moore

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Speaker 1: and it's like almost aging or visually aging in reverse.

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Speaker 1: It's unlike anything that we've seen before because it doesn't

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Speaker 1: look obviously like she's had a lot of work in

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Speaker 1: that same way as perhaps facelifts.

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Speaker 3: What do you think it is, because you're obviously doctor Maya.

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Speaker 3: What do you think she's had done?

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Speaker 1: I've dived deep. So people are saying it's not one thing,

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Speaker 1: it's a number of different things. But at the root

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Speaker 1: of it is a deep plane facelift where they actually

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Speaker 1: surgically alter every single muscle in your face. And there

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Speaker 1: are other things as well, And it's an upper eye lift,

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Speaker 1: and it's a this, and it's that, and it's you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a ton of different things, and it's also a

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Speaker 1: neck lift, and it's a lot of work, but it's

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Speaker 1: made to look like you younger, not you altered, if

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Speaker 1: that makes sense.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I saw this TikTok over the weekend that said,

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Speaker 3: I'm so glad that now that we've sorted all the

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Speaker 3: women's health issues like endometriosis, like peacos, like perimenopause, now

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Speaker 3: that we've got them under control, we can now move

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Speaker 3: on to the aesthetic. The superficial elements of women's bodies

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Speaker 3: have contraception, like we tick, So now we can go,

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Speaker 3: oh great, now we can do things that are a

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Speaker 3: little bit more like they're not as necessary, but all

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Speaker 3: our best doctors can go. How can we make Chris

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Speaker 3: jenneral look her absolute best at Priority seventy exactly.

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Speaker 1: I saw the.

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Speaker 2: Pictures that I was like, Oh, she's wearing her daughter's faces.

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Speaker 1: That's nice.

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Speaker 2: It's really unnerving. It's really unnerving, and I guess it

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Speaker 2: makes sense that surgery is going to get better, as

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Speaker 2: in better, as in less strange looking. I'd love to

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Speaker 2: know what she looks like in real life. I would

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Speaker 2: love to know if it was amazing without all the

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Speaker 2: filters and out without all the night because she really

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Speaker 2: does look strange.

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Speaker 1: You can tell because there was a lot of photos

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Speaker 1: that came out around that time. Because of course she

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Speaker 1: was there for Lauren sand Well. She was there for

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Speaker 1: two things. First, she was in Paris for Kim's trial,

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Speaker 1: the trial of robbers that came and tied up Kim

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Speaker 1: Kadashi and stole all her diamonds. And then moving on

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Speaker 1: from that a couple of days later was Lauren Sanchez's

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Speaker 1: hens Do, which I think you've got more details about,

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Speaker 1: or we're going to talk about more. I do, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But there were quite a few paparazzi shots of those

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Speaker 1: women leaving the hotels, and you know that were not

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Speaker 1: taken by them, and they're photographers that they brought with

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Speaker 1: them and that were not filtered, and it is quite different.

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Speaker 1: And I mean in those pictures she's wearing big sunglasses

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Speaker 1: in most of those pictures. It's not quite the same,

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Speaker 1: obviously as with all the filters, but it's not a

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Speaker 1: million miles away.

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Speaker 2: I like to imagine, because you know how there's the

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Speaker 2: shtick about no one works harder than Chris Jenna, and

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Speaker 2: I'm just imagining their recovery time and how many shouting

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Speaker 2: phone calls she would have had to make from under

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Speaker 2: a pile of bandages. More more, bye, bye, self doubt. Okay,

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Speaker 2: so while we are here in literal la La land,

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Speaker 2: I need to talk about the occasion as mere reference

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Speaker 2: that Jenna unveiled her new face, Lauren Sanchez's recent hendu. Now,

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Speaker 2: if you don't know that name, Sanchez is the Fianza

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Speaker 2: is the fiance, let's pronounce it correctly of Jeff Bezos,

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Speaker 2: one of the world's richest men, their owner of Amazon,

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Speaker 2: who's worth an estimated two hundred and twenty billion. And

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Speaker 2: although we don't like to define women by the men

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Speaker 2: there with. It is literally the reason why this former

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Speaker 2: TV anchor is now a properly famous person. So anyway,

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Speaker 2: she and Jeffer getting married in a hot minute in Venice, Italy.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure it's going to be a very quiet, understated

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Speaker 2: affair because Lawrence Hendu was an intimate gathering of thirteen.

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Speaker 2: The thirteen included fellow astronaut Katie Perry, Chris and her

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Speaker 2: new face, Kim Kardashian, Eva Longoria, Lauren's sister Elena, and

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Speaker 2: a few other very close, very glamorous friends. Everyone brought

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Speaker 2: their glam squad. There were choreographed papwalks, poses in front

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Speaker 2: of the Eiffel Tower, and a lot of BTS content

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Speaker 2: for socials. Jesse, you're in the era of many weddings

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Speaker 2: and hen parties back here in the real world. Are

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Speaker 2: they exactly like Laurence.

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Speaker 3: They're not exactly like Laurence, But I just might not

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Speaker 3: be invited to those ones. What I did relate with

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Speaker 3: was the content opportunity of it all, the content schedule.

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Speaker 3: I looked at the images that Lauren posted on Instagram

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Speaker 3: and went all right, So what we really went to

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Speaker 3: was a four day photo shoot, because in order to

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Speaker 3: get those photos and get that content, that's just a

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Speaker 3: lot of a lot of work. A lot of them

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Speaker 3: traveled with their own hairstylists, which was a detail I liked.

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Speaker 3: And now the detail I really liked was that in

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Speaker 3: attendance was someone named October Gonzalez. Do you guys know

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Speaker 3: who that is?

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Speaker 2: Great name?

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Speaker 3: October is the wife of Lauren's ex husband, Ah, and

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Speaker 3: they're good friends because they're co parent And I was like, okay,

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Speaker 3: I have some questions. I would be at that hens

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Speaker 3: after a few drinks, I'd be sitting next to October.

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Speaker 1: Do you know who wasn't there though, Pea Whitesell, who

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Speaker 1: is married to Lauren's ex husband.

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Speaker 3: So October is married to one of her ex husbands.

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Speaker 1: Maybe she has multiple, Yeah, she's got a couple, just

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Speaker 1: got a couple, but the most recent one is married

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Speaker 1: to Australian actress Pah. I can't remember what her name

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Speaker 1: was before she married Yea, So she wasn't there.

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Speaker 2: Do you think if you were invited, not necessarily to

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Speaker 2: that one, but any friend in your world who you

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Speaker 2: knew was much more glad than you. And there are

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Speaker 2: many friends in my world who are more glamorous than me.

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Speaker 2: Would you just be so nervous about what to wear,

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Speaker 2: what to look like posing in the pictures next to

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Speaker 2: these people.

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Speaker 3: I have a friend who went to a socialites Hens Dude.

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Speaker 3: She talks about it all the time. She felt deeply uncomfortable.

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Speaker 3: She felt as though there was a photo shoot happening

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Speaker 3: on the boat. But she cannot emphasize this enough. She

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Speaker 3: was not invited to the photos end of the boat.

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Speaker 3: Like she found it quite enlightening because she's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: this is how we get the shot, and I don't

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Speaker 3: want to put that much into getting the shot. But

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Speaker 3: what's hard for friends of Lauren is that she was

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Speaker 3: recently in space. How do you create a Hen's do

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Speaker 3: for someone who's been to space. It can't just be

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Speaker 3: at the local pub, it can't be a boat on

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Speaker 3: Sydney Harbor. You've got to up it. And in terms

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Speaker 3: of whether you'd go, I read this article I think

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Speaker 3: it was in The Times that was just like, hopefully

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Speaker 3: Lauren paid for it all. You're not getting a message

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Speaker 3: at the end going you owe me seventeen dollars for

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Speaker 3: the cocktailing on at the end, or guy, it's going

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Speaker 3: to cost just four hundred and twenty dollars for the accommodation.

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Speaker 3: Like someone picked up the bill and I feel like

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Speaker 3: Chris Jenna wasn't being invoiced, which is nice.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. No, it was definitely in all expenses. And I

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Speaker 1: think it was also the eulogy for the death of

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Speaker 1: quiet luxury, because there was nothing quiet about this. It's

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Speaker 1: interesting this idea of how Hens Nights and bachelorette parties

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Speaker 1: are being transformed by social media. And I wouldn't say

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Speaker 1: the same for Bucks weekends.

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Speaker 3: They are intentionally not on social media.

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Speaker 1: Correct, they are very offline. But Hen's things. I was

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Speaker 1: reading about a bachelorette contestant and she was at her

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Speaker 1: sister's themed Hen's that was all themed about being air hostesses,

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Speaker 1: and so everybody was dressed in air hostess uniforms. And

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Speaker 1: it's sort of when you've got those friends, or if

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Speaker 1: you've ever experienced that world where at social events happening

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Speaker 1: on two tracks. One is the actual track of you

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Speaker 1: guys being together, and the other is someone who, if

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Speaker 1: they're an influencer, will be wanting to document it as content.

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Speaker 3: Even if they're not an influencer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, true, even if there is. I'm not an influencer.

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Speaker 1: Everybody wants nice photos and everyone wants stuff to put

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Speaker 1: on the gram. How that's just changed the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: Like this, Hen's weekend in Paris seemed very I mean,

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Speaker 1: it was designed to be completely widy whatever. The opposite

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Speaker 1: of private is public and performative. In the same way

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Speaker 1: that the trip to Space was, it's performing female friendship,

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Speaker 1: performing fun. Now maybe they were having a great time.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but I know that when you're very

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Speaker 1: aware of being perceived and photographing, where even if you're

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Speaker 1: the one holding the camera or if your friend is

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Speaker 1: and it's not paparazzi, it does change how you behave

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Speaker 1: and how you feel.

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Speaker 3: I have an opinion about a four day Hens, which

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Speaker 3: is absolutely fine and it's estimated to have cost about

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Speaker 3: one million Australian dollars. But I was looking at what

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Speaker 3: we know about the itinerary and it was like fancy breakfast,

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Speaker 3: fancy lunch, fancy dinner, and then cocktails under the Eiffel Tower.

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Speaker 3: I just feel like it was a little jam packed.

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Speaker 3: And my comment about Hen's things, or in fact any

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Speaker 3: group holiday is I just think we need to pair

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Speaker 3: it back by twenty percent, because everyone needs just a

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Speaker 3: little lie down and a deep breath and just to recalibrate,

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Speaker 3: because it's a lot of socializing with people that maybe

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Speaker 3: you don't know that well.

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Speaker 2: Imagine the group chats, because they would have had a

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Speaker 2: group chat where in the first place they went like, well,

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Speaker 2: Kim's going to be in Paris for the trial, so

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Speaker 2: that's perfect, And then all their assistants would have had

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Speaker 2: a group chat. Can you imagine what had been going

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Speaker 2: on in there about the logistics and probably the glam

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Speaker 2: squads had it to group chats so they could go, well,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to do up, you're going to do down?

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Speaker 2: Like yeah, like the industrial complex that must have been

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Speaker 2: behind this, I think like when you bring that into

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Speaker 2: real life. The fact that now every milestone occasion, as

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Speaker 2: you said me, it runs on two tracks, and one

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Speaker 2: of them is how's it going to look on everybody's

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Speaker 2: platforms means that it's so much bigger and it involves

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Speaker 2: so many more people. I like to imagine that they go, Okay,

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Speaker 2: nine o'clock, we're all putting our phones away and we're

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Speaker 2: just getting loose. I like to imagine that's what happens.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I think at nine o'clock they all ran back to

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Speaker 1: their rooms to filter and post and curate their photos.

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00:19:40,462 --> 00:19:44,341
Speaker 1: When Lauren Sanchez posted, you know, she posted some galleries

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Speaker 1: and carousels and stuff on Instagram and with captions like

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Speaker 1: she said, forever starts with friendship, surrounded by the women

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Speaker 1: who've lifted me up, illuminated my path in dark times,

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Speaker 1: and shaped my heart along the way. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: like she flattens everything. And then she and another picture

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00:20:00,982 --> 00:20:04,782
Speaker 1: of a bunch of them sitting in coordinated robes and

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Speaker 1: towels and sunglasses on the bed while looking at their phones.

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Speaker 1: She captured it. That's a wrap to my girl, Thank

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Speaker 1: you for surprising me, lifting me up, and reminding me

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Speaker 1: how much I needed this moment. I love your hearts

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Speaker 1: and your beautiful energy more than words can say surprising me.

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Speaker 3: That suggests that some poor maid of honor had to

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Speaker 3: organize Laurence Sanchez's hens do, which is just a job

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Speaker 3: no one should have to do.

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Speaker 1: In a moment. Girl power is dead and we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about which if the Spice Girls just killed it.

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Speaker 1: Girl power is apparently dead. According to Jerry Horner, who

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Speaker 1: used to be Ginger Spice, but now she is a

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Speaker 1: children's book author and she's married to Formula one boss

401
00:20:45,341 --> 00:20:49,022
Speaker 1: Christian Horner. So she was doing an event where she

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Speaker 1: was reading her latest children's book to a group of

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Speaker 1: little kids, and she said of the Spice Girl's slogan

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Speaker 1: girl power, she said it was irrelevant, and she said,

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Speaker 1: it's irrelevant what your gender is. But then what she

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00:21:02,222 --> 00:21:05,701
Speaker 1: said was quite interesting. She described girl power as a

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00:21:05,742 --> 00:21:09,381
Speaker 1: sweet word for feminism, but the true meaning of feminism

408
00:21:09,462 --> 00:21:13,022
Speaker 1: is the equalization between the sexes. She now says she

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Speaker 1: advocates for a more inclusive message. I think it's about

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Speaker 1: inner power. It's about celebrating and empowering everyone, not just women.

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Speaker 1: What do you think Are we sad to see the

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Speaker 1: back of girl power or is it a loss for

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Speaker 1: the culture?

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Speaker 3: There is something in what she said that has a

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Speaker 3: kernel of truth, which is that feminism was intended to

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Speaker 3: liberate us all like it was intended to liberate men too,

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Speaker 3: from the shackles of masculinity and patriarchy and all of that.

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Speaker 3: Was that what she was talking about. I don't know,

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Speaker 3: but you know, there's this discussion that's been going on

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Speaker 3: for thirty years about whether girl power was the savior

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Speaker 3: of modern feminism or the killer of it, and I

422
00:21:54,942 --> 00:21:59,701
Speaker 3: think it was probably neither. And this is what we

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Speaker 3: do when we try to make a band or a

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00:22:03,821 --> 00:22:08,741
Speaker 3: person or a brand everything to all people. Like the

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Speaker 3: Spice Girl existed in a moment in time, in a

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Speaker 3: rich context to do a certain thing that had limits.

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Speaker 3: Of course, it had limits. The message of girl power

428
00:22:20,341 --> 00:22:25,502
Speaker 3: was about confidence and being loud and being brash and

429
00:22:25,581 --> 00:22:28,501
Speaker 3: having fun with other girls. And maybe that doesn't seem

430
00:22:28,782 --> 00:22:32,502
Speaker 3: so revolutionary right now, but at the time to a

431
00:22:32,661 --> 00:22:37,342
Speaker 3: five year old, like you know, complex theories of feminism

432
00:22:37,901 --> 00:22:41,701
Speaker 3: aren't quite as palatable. And I was reading about the

433
00:22:41,702 --> 00:22:44,261
Speaker 3: Spice Girls and kind of the history of them and

434
00:22:44,302 --> 00:22:48,421
Speaker 3: how informed they were by Thatcherism by the nineteen eighties

435
00:22:48,422 --> 00:22:53,061
Speaker 3: and Margaret Thatcher, and that is an incredibly flawed prism

436
00:22:53,101 --> 00:22:56,181
Speaker 3: by which to look at feminism, because female representation isn't

437
00:22:56,341 --> 00:22:59,461
Speaker 3: the end or beginning of feminism. But that was a

438
00:22:59,502 --> 00:23:02,141
Speaker 3: woman in a place where women weren't thought to belong.

439
00:23:02,262 --> 00:23:04,742
Speaker 3: That was revolutionary. That you had Margaret Thatcher for more

440
00:23:04,742 --> 00:23:07,622
Speaker 3: than ten years in a position of leadership, no matter

441
00:23:07,661 --> 00:23:10,782
Speaker 3: what you thought of her. And so so the Spice

442
00:23:10,821 --> 00:23:12,542
Speaker 3: Girls came out of that a few years later and

443
00:23:12,581 --> 00:23:14,021
Speaker 3: kind of went all right, we're going to take up

444
00:23:14,061 --> 00:23:17,621
Speaker 3: space and a girl band was kind of really cool.

445
00:23:18,581 --> 00:23:21,782
Speaker 3: But Holly, do you think that she's diluted the message

446
00:23:21,821 --> 00:23:24,542
Speaker 3: now that by trying to appeal to everyone, it's kind

447
00:23:24,542 --> 00:23:27,101
Speaker 3: of like there's no bite to what they were trying

448
00:23:27,141 --> 00:23:27,542
Speaker 3: to say.

449
00:23:28,141 --> 00:23:31,422
Speaker 2: I just don't think that this version of Jerry Hallewell

450
00:23:31,581 --> 00:23:34,262
Speaker 2: would be allowed to call herself a feminist. Really the

451
00:23:34,341 --> 00:23:37,782
Speaker 2: sort of image makeover that Jerry Hallewell has had, because

452
00:23:37,782 --> 00:23:40,741
Speaker 2: it's really interesting that it's funny. So as gen X,

453
00:23:40,742 --> 00:23:42,901
Speaker 2: we just kind of missed the spice skills in a way.

454
00:23:42,942 --> 00:23:45,821
Speaker 2: They're very much a millennial phenomena, right, But we watched

455
00:23:45,821 --> 00:23:48,341
Speaker 2: it happen, we were very close to it, and I

456
00:23:48,381 --> 00:23:50,821
Speaker 2: remember at the time thinking it seemed quite empty because

457
00:23:50,821 --> 00:23:54,382
Speaker 2: I guess Gen X feminists were a bit grungier, right,

458
00:23:54,462 --> 00:23:56,742
Speaker 2: So it was like, this all seems a bit sellout.

459
00:23:56,782 --> 00:23:59,662
Speaker 2: It's a bit sugary. But the way that I hear

460
00:23:59,742 --> 00:24:02,662
Speaker 2: millennials talk about girl power, and as you just said, Jesse,

461
00:24:02,782 --> 00:24:04,981
Speaker 2: the idea of little girls seeing this, I understand that

462
00:24:05,061 --> 00:24:07,941
Speaker 2: it meant something to them, right, But each of those

463
00:24:07,982 --> 00:24:10,861
Speaker 2: women because the spice skills only actually happened for about

464
00:24:10,861 --> 00:24:12,821
Speaker 2: four years and then they were over, so it's a

465
00:24:12,942 --> 00:24:15,021
Speaker 2: very short period of time and then they were gone,

466
00:24:15,302 --> 00:24:18,061
Speaker 2: and where they've all gone since then is really interesting.

467
00:24:18,621 --> 00:24:25,022
Speaker 2: And Jerry's reinvention is very conservative, very pristine, trad wife,

468
00:24:25,222 --> 00:24:28,742
Speaker 2: good girl. She only wears white, literally only wears white,

469
00:24:28,782 --> 00:24:31,101
Speaker 2: lives in a massive mansion in the countryside, has married

470
00:24:31,141 --> 00:24:34,621
Speaker 2: a very rich, slightly problematic man who's an f one guy.

471
00:24:35,262 --> 00:24:37,821
Speaker 2: You know, she, as you say, Mia, writes children's books.

472
00:24:37,821 --> 00:24:40,341
Speaker 2: She is wholesome, wholes or wholesome. And I do not

473
00:24:40,462 --> 00:24:44,022
Speaker 2: think that in Christian Horner's world you are allowed to

474
00:24:44,022 --> 00:24:47,581
Speaker 2: be marching around talking about feminism. Allowed is the wrong word.

475
00:24:47,621 --> 00:24:50,701
Speaker 2: Of course, she's allowed, encouraged. Yeah, it's not the vibe.

476
00:24:50,702 --> 00:24:53,542
Speaker 2: So I think that her backing away from the term

477
00:24:53,661 --> 00:24:56,142
Speaker 2: feminism is more about that than it is about any

478
00:24:56,262 --> 00:24:57,702
Speaker 2: kind of gender inclusivity.

479
00:24:57,942 --> 00:25:00,902
Speaker 1: That's so interesting, Yeah, because also he cheats on her,

480
00:25:01,061 --> 00:25:05,462
Speaker 1: and quite publicly. What's so fascinating about that is her

481
00:25:05,621 --> 00:25:08,341
Speaker 1: claiming it as a type of feminism, which is something

482
00:25:08,381 --> 00:25:11,782
Speaker 1: that feminist Catlin Anne was very critical of when she

483
00:25:12,022 --> 00:25:14,581
Speaker 1: was writing about feminism about ten years ago, and she

484
00:25:14,702 --> 00:25:18,462
Speaker 1: pointed out that the Spice Girls were a real watered down,

485
00:25:18,502 --> 00:25:22,581
Speaker 1: commercialized form of feminism, and she said that it replaced

486
00:25:23,101 --> 00:25:27,622
Speaker 1: real feminist activism with sort of superficial gestures and consumerism.

487
00:25:27,702 --> 00:25:30,421
Speaker 1: And she said it was more about I want to

488
00:25:30,462 --> 00:25:33,101
Speaker 1: hang out with my friends and wear cool clothes and

489
00:25:33,141 --> 00:25:35,142
Speaker 1: be a bit naughty and have a few drinks. And

490
00:25:35,942 --> 00:25:37,422
Speaker 1: did they pinch Prince Charles on.

491
00:25:37,381 --> 00:25:39,941
Speaker 2: The bookom Yes, Ginger did, because one of the reasons

492
00:25:39,942 --> 00:25:42,981
Speaker 2: why her transformation is particularly startling, and she and Scary

493
00:25:42,982 --> 00:25:45,181
Speaker 2: were the naughty ones, you know, the noise.

494
00:25:44,942 --> 00:25:47,782
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, And I love what you said about girl

495
00:25:47,821 --> 00:25:51,542
Speaker 1: power was very much about women not being passive, women

496
00:25:51,742 --> 00:25:56,462
Speaker 1: being active, and women that sense of female friendship as

497
00:25:56,462 --> 00:25:59,502
Speaker 1: opposed to female competition to get a guy. So all

498
00:25:59,502 --> 00:26:02,381
Speaker 1: of that was I won't say transgressive, but it was

499
00:26:02,422 --> 00:26:05,342
Speaker 1: certainly fresh and it was very palatable.

500
00:26:05,502 --> 00:26:08,581
Speaker 3: There was something subversive about that, and I don't know

501
00:26:08,742 --> 00:26:11,741
Speaker 3: about it replaced it. It's like lots of things can coexist.

502
00:26:11,782 --> 00:26:14,181
Speaker 3: And I don't think that the Spice Girls ever said

503
00:26:14,542 --> 00:26:18,262
Speaker 3: we are the embodiment of feminism. And this is where no, God, no,

504
00:26:18,462 --> 00:26:22,061
Speaker 3: they definitely didn't. In fact, I think that's revigionist history.

505
00:26:22,182 --> 00:26:26,661
Speaker 3: I think it's really interesting though, because recently sporedy email

506
00:26:26,702 --> 00:26:29,022
Speaker 3: C was on No Filter with Kate Langbrook and it

507
00:26:29,101 --> 00:26:32,502
Speaker 3: was a really good interview and she clearly still takes

508
00:26:32,542 --> 00:26:35,861
Speaker 3: the girl power side of it very seriously and suggests

509
00:26:35,942 --> 00:26:38,341
Speaker 3: that it actually was more about them being in control

510
00:26:38,381 --> 00:26:41,101
Speaker 3: of their careers, because again when I talk about gen

511
00:26:41,262 --> 00:26:43,421
Speaker 3: X being a bit cynical about the Spice Girls, they

512
00:26:43,462 --> 00:26:44,421
Speaker 3: were literally.

513
00:26:44,061 --> 00:26:47,181
Speaker 2: A constructed band. You know, they advertised for these young

514
00:26:47,222 --> 00:26:49,101
Speaker 2: girls they needed to be a certain way, look a

515
00:26:49,101 --> 00:26:51,981
Speaker 2: certain way, have a certain variety to them. Then they

516
00:26:51,982 --> 00:26:54,022
Speaker 2: were trained up and turned into a band, which is

517
00:26:54,061 --> 00:26:56,302
Speaker 2: just you know, has happened many times since, like with

518
00:26:56,381 --> 00:26:58,942
Speaker 2: one direction. But she talked in that interview about how

519
00:26:58,982 --> 00:27:01,181
Speaker 2: they rejected a lot of the songwriters they were given,

520
00:27:01,302 --> 00:27:03,421
Speaker 2: that they didn't like the way that they So she

521
00:27:03,621 --> 00:27:05,782
Speaker 2: was suggesting that girl power meant that they were more

522
00:27:05,821 --> 00:27:09,381
Speaker 2: in control than anybody's thought. How true that is, I

523
00:27:09,621 --> 00:27:10,821
Speaker 2: don't really know.

524
00:27:11,182 --> 00:27:14,222
Speaker 3: There are a few clips from a documentary years ago

525
00:27:14,341 --> 00:27:17,221
Speaker 3: which was them on set being told to do certain things,

526
00:27:17,302 --> 00:27:20,022
Speaker 3: and their brand was that they pushed back a little

527
00:27:20,061 --> 00:27:22,022
Speaker 3: bit and that they were kind, They felt a little

528
00:27:22,061 --> 00:27:23,982
Speaker 3: bit more powerful because there were five of them rather

529
00:27:24,022 --> 00:27:26,902
Speaker 3: than one against a male photographer. But I wonder, I'm

530
00:27:26,942 --> 00:27:29,661
Speaker 3: interested in what you say about Jerry Halliwell's kind of

531
00:27:29,702 --> 00:27:33,101
Speaker 3: break from feminism. If the Spice Girls existed today, I

532
00:27:33,182 --> 00:27:34,982
Speaker 3: wonder if tradwife would be one of them.

533
00:27:35,141 --> 00:27:41,581
Speaker 4: Yes, trad spies, trad spies, because Holly at our live show,

534
00:27:41,621 --> 00:27:43,621
Speaker 4: you were talking about ways to be a girl, right,

535
00:27:44,422 --> 00:27:47,422
Speaker 4: and that's evolved, Like that was a moment in time

536
00:27:47,542 --> 00:27:49,381
Speaker 4: like that you had the baby and the scary and

537
00:27:49,422 --> 00:27:50,142
Speaker 4: the sporty and.

538
00:27:50,621 --> 00:27:54,101
Speaker 3: Sporty was was subversive too, the idea that a girl

539
00:27:54,141 --> 00:27:57,142
Speaker 3: could be sporty but be kind of cool and sexy

540
00:27:57,182 --> 00:28:00,022
Speaker 3: in that Like that was fun. But now we've got

541
00:28:00,061 --> 00:28:03,821
Speaker 3: like the trad wife in Jerry if we like that,

542
00:28:03,901 --> 00:28:06,661
Speaker 3: and maybe like even Victoria Beckham is like there's like

543
00:28:06,742 --> 00:28:07,862
Speaker 3: the girl boss hustler.

544
00:28:08,542 --> 00:28:10,582
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's very good. And the thing is is, when

545
00:28:10,581 --> 00:28:12,542
Speaker 2: you think about it, when we were just describing the

546
00:28:12,581 --> 00:28:16,222
Speaker 2: Spice Girls and their energy, that's what Bratt is, right,

547
00:28:16,341 --> 00:28:19,022
Speaker 2: that's like kind of the the evolution of that is

548
00:28:19,022 --> 00:28:21,782
Speaker 2: your Charlie XCX's and your Chapel Roans and your Billie

549
00:28:21,821 --> 00:28:24,581
Speaker 2: Eilishes who really do appear to be in control of

550
00:28:24,621 --> 00:28:27,621
Speaker 2: their careers. But they really do. But they are selling

551
00:28:27,621 --> 00:28:31,341
Speaker 2: a similar energy, which is don't give a fuck energy,

552
00:28:31,502 --> 00:28:34,141
Speaker 2: you know, like boss Lady energy in a different way. Naughty,

553
00:28:34,502 --> 00:28:38,462
Speaker 2: a bit subversive, a bit out there sexually, you know, available,

554
00:28:38,542 --> 00:28:42,542
Speaker 2: not available, sexually, liber etonomous. Yeah, I guess that's an

555
00:28:42,542 --> 00:28:44,502
Speaker 2: evolution of that. But you're so right. I think that

556
00:28:44,702 --> 00:28:47,741
Speaker 2: maybe one of the interesting things about Jerry is that

557
00:28:47,862 --> 00:28:51,221
Speaker 2: her evolution into a different kind of archetype really is

558
00:28:51,222 --> 00:28:54,102
Speaker 2: against who we thought she was. But it's very much

559
00:28:54,142 --> 00:28:55,142
Speaker 2: an archetype of Now.

560
00:28:56,142 --> 00:28:58,941
Speaker 5: So I started this club carder we do Not Care club,

561
00:28:59,022 --> 00:29:01,981
Speaker 5: and this is for anybody going through perimenopause and menopause.

562
00:29:02,182 --> 00:29:04,622
Speaker 5: I posted a video asking who want to join? And

563
00:29:04,622 --> 00:29:06,181
Speaker 5: when I tell you, we got so many members in

564
00:29:06,222 --> 00:29:08,462
Speaker 5: this club. But what I did was compile a list

565
00:29:08,702 --> 00:29:11,382
Speaker 5: of all the stuff that we don't care about no more. Okay,

566
00:29:11,622 --> 00:29:14,342
Speaker 5: we don't care about BRA's no more because bras suffocate us.

567
00:29:14,422 --> 00:29:16,622
Speaker 5: We don't need that no more. We don't care we

568
00:29:16,661 --> 00:29:19,142
Speaker 5: look pregnant and we're really not pregnant. We don't care

569
00:29:19,142 --> 00:29:23,142
Speaker 5: about matching clothes and wearing pj's all day clothes is closed.

570
00:29:23,182 --> 00:29:23,622
Speaker 1: That's it.

571
00:29:23,702 --> 00:29:26,022
Speaker 5: That's the standard. We don't care about being on time

572
00:29:26,022 --> 00:29:28,181
Speaker 5: for the baby. Be happy that I showed up because

573
00:29:28,462 --> 00:29:29,462
Speaker 5: I don't even want to be here.

574
00:29:30,102 --> 00:29:30,661
Speaker 4: We don't have to.

575
00:29:30,742 --> 00:29:33,942
Speaker 5: We don't care about unpainted big toenails and wearing flip

576
00:29:33,942 --> 00:29:36,741
Speaker 5: flops with them. Listen, that's a luxury to be able

577
00:29:36,782 --> 00:29:39,142
Speaker 5: to paint your tonails. To nails is to nails. Just

578
00:29:39,342 --> 00:29:40,622
Speaker 5: I'm gonna win my flip flops.

579
00:29:40,622 --> 00:29:41,022
Speaker 1: And there's that.

580
00:29:41,502 --> 00:29:44,342
Speaker 2: That is a glorious woman who is all over your

581
00:29:44,342 --> 00:29:46,542
Speaker 2: phone right now. And she's not a Kardashian or a

582
00:29:46,542 --> 00:29:50,701
Speaker 2: billionaire bride. She is Melanie Sanders, a creator called Just

583
00:29:50,742 --> 00:29:53,062
Speaker 2: Being Melanie, And as you just heard, she is the

584
00:29:53,102 --> 00:29:56,462
Speaker 2: founder of the We Do Not Care Club. Her list

585
00:29:56,462 --> 00:29:59,342
Speaker 2: of things that perimenopausal women do not care about are

586
00:29:59,382 --> 00:30:02,102
Speaker 2: so funny and so right that they have spawned one

587
00:30:02,222 --> 00:30:07,782
Speaker 2: hundred imitations within days. Maya Jesse, were you into that

588
00:30:07,902 --> 00:30:08,941
Speaker 2: We Do Not Care Club?

589
00:30:09,022 --> 00:30:11,981
Speaker 1: Are member? I loved it and joined it in my

590
00:30:12,102 --> 00:30:14,982
Speaker 1: heart immediately some things, and of course it makes you

591
00:30:15,022 --> 00:30:16,782
Speaker 1: start thinking about the things that you don't care about.

592
00:30:16,862 --> 00:30:20,742
Speaker 1: I don't care about embarrassing my kids. Yes, in fact,

593
00:30:20,782 --> 00:30:25,822
Speaker 1: I relish it. I don't care about vpls or camel tooes.

594
00:30:25,982 --> 00:30:28,262
Speaker 1: And I don't care what anyone thinks of my pants

595
00:30:28,342 --> 00:30:29,021
Speaker 1: or not pants.

596
00:30:29,262 --> 00:30:31,142
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like that. I don't care if you know

597
00:30:31,182 --> 00:30:34,182
Speaker 3: that I'm wearing underpants. I can live with that. I

598
00:30:34,182 --> 00:30:36,181
Speaker 3: found this so funny, and I went through and listened

599
00:30:36,182 --> 00:30:39,022
Speaker 3: to a bunch and these were my favorites that she shared.

600
00:30:39,142 --> 00:30:41,862
Speaker 3: So she had We don't care. If it's an emergency,

601
00:30:41,982 --> 00:30:45,981
Speaker 3: don't call me. We do not care. If we forgot

602
00:30:45,982 --> 00:30:48,102
Speaker 3: what we were talking about, We'll come back to it

603
00:30:48,142 --> 00:30:51,421
Speaker 3: if we remember. We do not care about small talk.

604
00:30:51,822 --> 00:30:52,622
Speaker 1: Just shut up.

605
00:30:53,182 --> 00:30:55,262
Speaker 3: We don't care about the back of our hair. That's

606
00:30:55,302 --> 00:30:57,902
Speaker 3: not any of our business. And we do not care

607
00:30:57,982 --> 00:31:00,862
Speaker 3: if we wear leggings every day. Jeans hurt our stomach.

608
00:31:00,982 --> 00:31:01,782
Speaker 3: Oh I like that.

609
00:31:01,942 --> 00:31:04,862
Speaker 1: Oh spot on, she's my new here.

610
00:31:04,862 --> 00:31:07,342
Speaker 3: It's the way she delivers it because she just doesn't care,

611
00:31:07,502 --> 00:31:09,461
Speaker 3: Like she's just so pathetic.

612
00:31:09,702 --> 00:31:12,502
Speaker 2: She's wearing or we don't care on a Serviette club

613
00:31:12,622 --> 00:31:14,262
Speaker 2: sign around her nation love.

614
00:31:14,102 --> 00:31:16,782
Speaker 1: It written with a pen on the back of a nat.

615
00:31:16,742 --> 00:31:20,062
Speaker 2: I love that, she says, separating clothes into darks and

616
00:31:20,102 --> 00:31:22,302
Speaker 2: whites and colors. If it can't survive a cold wash

617
00:31:22,342 --> 00:31:25,502
Speaker 2: and a dry cycle. Then it wasn't for us anyway. Anyway.

618
00:31:25,542 --> 00:31:28,741
Speaker 2: If you want to see more Melanie Sanders, we do

619
00:31:28,822 --> 00:31:30,461
Speaker 2: not care club. I have a feeling I'm going to

620
00:31:30,462 --> 00:31:34,622
Speaker 2: be seeing absolutely everywhere you can find her just being Melanie.

621
00:31:34,302 --> 00:31:37,461
Speaker 3: After the break the trinket trend you're seeing everywhere and

622
00:31:37,542 --> 00:31:39,902
Speaker 3: what it really means out loud as.

623
00:31:39,942 --> 00:31:41,661
Speaker 1: If you want to listen to us every day of

624
00:31:41,702 --> 00:31:44,461
Speaker 1: the week, you can get access to exclusive segments on

625
00:31:44,582 --> 00:31:48,182
Speaker 1: Tuesdays and Thursdays by becoming a Mum and mea subscriber.

626
00:31:48,582 --> 00:31:50,741
Speaker 1: Follow the link in the show notes to subscribe and

627
00:31:50,782 --> 00:31:53,142
Speaker 1: support us, and a big thank you to all our

628
00:31:53,182 --> 00:31:54,222
Speaker 1: current subscribers.

629
00:32:00,342 --> 00:32:03,302
Speaker 3: I need to talk about La Boo Boo. If you

630
00:32:03,382 --> 00:32:07,262
Speaker 3: haven't noticed this trend, you are about to bag. Charms

631
00:32:07,302 --> 00:32:11,142
Speaker 3: or trinkets are everywhere, and in particular Le Boo Boo dolls,

632
00:32:11,222 --> 00:32:15,622
Speaker 3: which are like little stuffed toys. Rihanna and Jua Lipa

633
00:32:15,742 --> 00:32:18,582
Speaker 3: have been spotted with them hanging from their bags, and

634
00:32:18,661 --> 00:32:22,102
Speaker 3: in the past few weeks, demand for the collectibles has

635
00:32:22,182 --> 00:32:25,982
Speaker 3: gone through the roof. There are lines snaking outside shops.

636
00:32:26,382 --> 00:32:30,382
Speaker 3: Online listings are ridiculously expensive, and there have been physical

637
00:32:30,462 --> 00:32:34,902
Speaker 3: altercations in side shops. So Lea Boo Boo is a

638
00:32:34,942 --> 00:32:38,822
Speaker 3: furry monster character created by Casing Lung, who is a

639
00:32:38,862 --> 00:32:42,622
Speaker 3: Hong Kong born artist, and they are sold in something

640
00:32:42,702 --> 00:32:45,981
Speaker 3: called blind boxes, which means you don't know which character

641
00:32:46,022 --> 00:32:48,142
Speaker 3: you're going to get until you'll open it, and they

642
00:32:48,222 --> 00:32:52,102
Speaker 3: retail for between thirty Ozzie dollars and honestly can go

643
00:32:52,182 --> 00:32:54,742
Speaker 3: up to thousands if you are scouring eBay for a

644
00:32:54,822 --> 00:33:00,262
Speaker 3: particular type holly collectible laboo boos to attach to our handbags.

645
00:33:00,302 --> 00:33:02,981
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be honest to me, this just looks like

646
00:33:03,062 --> 00:33:07,021
Speaker 3: a new creative way to contribute to landfill. What is

647
00:33:07,062 --> 00:33:07,582
Speaker 3: the appeal?

648
00:33:09,102 --> 00:33:09,302
Speaker 1: Look?

649
00:33:09,342 --> 00:33:11,862
Speaker 2: I think we actually need to ask me that question,

650
00:33:12,062 --> 00:33:14,902
Speaker 2: because although I have many thoughts about why we're obsessed

651
00:33:14,942 --> 00:33:17,461
Speaker 2: with them, the idea of why we would put them

652
00:33:17,502 --> 00:33:20,461
Speaker 2: on our bags. We were talking about this in the meeting,

653
00:33:20,782 --> 00:33:24,422
Speaker 2: and then Maya held up a bag may tell us

654
00:33:24,542 --> 00:33:27,742
Speaker 2: why and where they came from in the fashion world.

655
00:33:27,782 --> 00:33:29,421
Speaker 2: I know, and you've been doing this for a while,

656
00:33:29,502 --> 00:33:31,142
Speaker 2: dangling crazy things from your bag.

657
00:33:31,462 --> 00:33:34,982
Speaker 1: It's true. I like to buy accessories for my accessories.

658
00:33:35,102 --> 00:33:36,661
Speaker 1: I like to buy them for my bags. I like

659
00:33:36,702 --> 00:33:39,701
Speaker 1: to buy them for my shoes, shoe jewelry. What can

660
00:33:39,742 --> 00:33:42,342
Speaker 1: I tell you? People have always liked to collect things.

661
00:33:42,502 --> 00:33:46,142
Speaker 3: Correction, sorry this is going to sound offensive, but children

662
00:33:46,222 --> 00:33:48,542
Speaker 3: have always liked to collect things, Like it's quite a

663
00:33:48,622 --> 00:33:50,582
Speaker 3: childish impulse to collect things.

664
00:33:50,902 --> 00:33:53,822
Speaker 1: To me more collect dots. Lots of people collect, lots

665
00:33:53,862 --> 00:33:55,181
Speaker 1: of adults collect things.

666
00:33:55,382 --> 00:33:57,702
Speaker 2: But I want to know why this has become fashion?

667
00:33:58,142 --> 00:34:01,981
Speaker 1: Well, because you always follow the money. Fashion relies on

668
00:34:02,062 --> 00:34:05,181
Speaker 1: people buying things, and not just things, but new things,

669
00:34:05,262 --> 00:34:08,741
Speaker 1: things that they don't yet have. So that's why when

670
00:34:09,102 --> 00:34:12,502
Speaker 1: something comes back in fashion, it's always slightly different to

671
00:34:12,582 --> 00:34:16,301
Speaker 1: the version of it we all bought five ten, two

672
00:34:16,382 --> 00:34:20,022
Speaker 1: years ago, the idea of bag charms. The other thing

673
00:34:20,022 --> 00:34:21,582
Speaker 1: you've got to see with fashion is that it's always

674
00:34:21,781 --> 00:34:24,622
Speaker 1: reactive and the pendulum swings. So the last few years

675
00:34:24,622 --> 00:34:28,381
Speaker 1: we've had this epidemic of quiet luxury, which has now

676
00:34:28,422 --> 00:34:31,181
Speaker 1: come up twice on the show, and both la Booboos

677
00:34:31,261 --> 00:34:35,661
Speaker 1: and Lauren Sanchez's Hen's Do and actually just Lauren Sanchez

678
00:34:35,862 --> 00:34:40,341
Speaker 1: are both reactions to what I feel is the sadness

679
00:34:40,462 --> 00:34:43,221
Speaker 1: of quiet luxury. It's like, let's spend a whole lot

680
00:34:43,221 --> 00:34:47,982
Speaker 1: of money on something that looks incredibly plain. That doesn't well,

681
00:34:47,982 --> 00:34:50,582
Speaker 1: it doesn't spark joy in me. So I think that

682
00:34:50,822 --> 00:34:54,702
Speaker 1: now everyone's wanting to get really silly. And this idea

683
00:34:54,902 --> 00:35:00,542
Speaker 1: of childhood ties in with a generation who's very ambivalent

684
00:35:00,582 --> 00:35:04,821
Speaker 1: about growing up and a generation of parents who have

685
00:35:05,142 --> 00:35:08,301
Speaker 1: helicoptered our children and have sort of encouraged them to

686
00:35:08,382 --> 00:35:13,142
Speaker 1: stay in this suspended state of kid olt in a way.

687
00:35:13,221 --> 00:35:17,861
Speaker 2: So quiet luxury to the basics, like me, that's like

688
00:35:18,142 --> 00:35:21,382
Speaker 2: Gwyneth Paltrow's g label, right, and like the Row, which

689
00:35:21,422 --> 00:35:26,022
Speaker 2: is basically about selling a gray cashmere jumper for like

690
00:35:26,181 --> 00:35:29,022
Speaker 2: five thousand dollars, and it's like no one would know

691
00:35:29,022 --> 00:35:31,661
Speaker 2: there was anything special about that except other people who've

692
00:35:31,701 --> 00:35:34,422
Speaker 2: got the eye for the quiet luxury, right exactly. So

693
00:35:34,822 --> 00:35:37,861
Speaker 2: this is interesting about the extended childhood idea because, as

694
00:35:37,902 --> 00:35:40,542
Speaker 2: you said, people, and Jesse corrected you, kids have always

695
00:35:40,542 --> 00:35:44,181
Speaker 2: collected things. Kids have also been obsessed with this blind

696
00:35:44,261 --> 00:35:47,461
Speaker 2: bag culture ever since you know, YouTubers became a thing.

697
00:35:47,582 --> 00:35:51,102
Speaker 2: Like my daughter went through a big phase of Lol dolls, right,

698
00:35:51,142 --> 00:35:53,261
Speaker 2: which were these little plastic dolls. And the whole thing

699
00:35:53,342 --> 00:35:54,942
Speaker 2: is you go to you at the shop and you

700
00:35:54,982 --> 00:35:56,701
Speaker 2: don't know which one you're going to get when you

701
00:35:56,741 --> 00:36:00,301
Speaker 2: get it, and this is also true for like Pokemon cards.

702
00:36:00,342 --> 00:36:01,462
Speaker 3: It's a happy meal.

703
00:36:01,622 --> 00:36:04,382
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. The idea is that the excitement is

704
00:36:04,462 --> 00:36:06,902
Speaker 2: part of it, the gamification of like what am I

705
00:36:06,942 --> 00:36:08,422
Speaker 2: going to get? I don't know, and then I've got

706
00:36:08,462 --> 00:36:11,381
Speaker 2: to collect them all. So it's very clever, as Mia says,

707
00:36:11,422 --> 00:36:14,301
Speaker 2: from a capitalist perspective, because you're probably not going to

708
00:36:14,342 --> 00:36:16,462
Speaker 2: get the one you want first time, so then you've

709
00:36:16,502 --> 00:36:18,862
Speaker 2: got to get another one, and another one and another one.

710
00:36:18,741 --> 00:36:20,582
Speaker 1: Because you buy them in a box, although not all

711
00:36:20,622 --> 00:36:23,462
Speaker 1: of them. I'm on the PopMart website now, because there

712
00:36:23,502 --> 00:36:25,422
Speaker 1: are some places around the world where you go and

713
00:36:25,502 --> 00:36:28,222
Speaker 1: queue and you queue for hours and then you pay

714
00:36:28,462 --> 00:36:30,902
Speaker 1: all this money and you're given a box and you

715
00:36:31,261 --> 00:36:33,221
Speaker 1: can't choose what you get. So you might get a

716
00:36:33,261 --> 00:36:36,582
Speaker 1: box with a LABOOO that you've already got. If you

717
00:36:36,622 --> 00:36:38,382
Speaker 1: buy two boxes, it might be the same one in

718
00:36:38,422 --> 00:36:41,301
Speaker 1: both boxes. You just don't know, so it's almost like

719
00:36:41,422 --> 00:36:47,422
Speaker 1: a bit of a lottery gamification of consumerism. And in

720
00:36:47,462 --> 00:36:50,341
Speaker 1: Australia the place you get them is online at PopMart,

721
00:36:50,422 --> 00:36:52,502
Speaker 1: and you can get some most of them are out

722
00:36:52,542 --> 00:36:55,142
Speaker 1: of stock, but you get a box and I don't

723
00:36:55,142 --> 00:36:57,782
Speaker 1: know if you I've just found one for twenty two dollars,

724
00:36:57,862 --> 00:37:00,901
Speaker 1: like a Coca cola. Yeah one. I don't know if

725
00:37:00,942 --> 00:37:03,502
Speaker 1: this is an actual see this might also be not

726
00:37:03,622 --> 00:37:05,022
Speaker 1: a legitimate one because I don't know.

727
00:37:05,302 --> 00:37:07,382
Speaker 2: Well, there are lots about kinds of the monsters, and

728
00:37:07,462 --> 00:37:09,422
Speaker 2: the booboos are one of the kinds the most desirable.

729
00:37:09,741 --> 00:37:12,422
Speaker 2: But this is important is that although you can spend

730
00:37:12,422 --> 00:37:15,821
Speaker 2: thousands on them, they're not actually that expensive. As in,

731
00:37:15,862 --> 00:37:17,861
Speaker 2: if you go and queue up and buy one, they're

732
00:37:17,902 --> 00:37:20,181
Speaker 2: going to cost somewhere between thirty and sixty dollars, which

733
00:37:20,181 --> 00:37:21,701
Speaker 2: is a lot of money for a little fluffy toil.

734
00:37:21,741 --> 00:37:24,222
Speaker 1: It's a lot for a time, but for a tiny

735
00:37:24,261 --> 00:37:28,062
Speaker 1: little bad it's But the point is it's little treat size.

736
00:37:28,142 --> 00:37:30,301
Speaker 2: It's little treat scale, you know what I mean. So

737
00:37:30,382 --> 00:37:32,422
Speaker 2: there's another theory that one of the reasons why this

738
00:37:32,502 --> 00:37:35,381
Speaker 2: has become a big thing is that, you know, back

739
00:37:35,422 --> 00:37:37,901
Speaker 2: to that thing we often quote the lipstick index, which

740
00:37:37,942 --> 00:37:40,622
Speaker 2: is when times are tough economically, but you still want

741
00:37:40,622 --> 00:37:42,582
Speaker 2: to bring a bit of joy and treats to yourself,

742
00:37:43,022 --> 00:37:46,582
Speaker 2: Like buying a thirty dollar ridiculous bad charm is not

743
00:37:46,661 --> 00:37:49,862
Speaker 2: a good use of thirty dollars, but it's not entirely

744
00:37:49,942 --> 00:37:51,261
Speaker 2: out of reach hundreds and things.

745
00:37:51,302 --> 00:37:53,901
Speaker 3: It's not a two thousand dollars handbag, So.

746
00:37:53,862 --> 00:37:56,342
Speaker 2: It's giving you a little bit of high fashion Rhianna

747
00:37:56,542 --> 00:37:59,382
Speaker 2: or whatever for an affordable ish price.

748
00:37:59,862 --> 00:38:03,502
Speaker 3: I have a few theories. The first is that it's

749
00:38:03,582 --> 00:38:08,542
Speaker 3: countercultural in a world in which everything is on demand

750
00:38:08,942 --> 00:38:13,102
Speaker 3: and nothing runs out. So with Sheen and Timu, it's

751
00:38:13,221 --> 00:38:17,022
Speaker 3: like you can get what she has immediately all of

752
00:38:17,062 --> 00:38:17,381
Speaker 3: the time.

753
00:38:17,942 --> 00:38:18,142
Speaker 6: Right.

754
00:38:18,221 --> 00:38:20,102
Speaker 3: I've seen mea go I love that skirt, and she

755
00:38:20,181 --> 00:38:23,942
Speaker 3: has the skirt in her cart within ten seconds. The

756
00:38:23,942 --> 00:38:27,781
Speaker 3: thing about this is that you can't like you. The

757
00:38:27,822 --> 00:38:32,741
Speaker 3: gamification element means that scarcity and the lines run out,

758
00:38:32,902 --> 00:38:34,181
Speaker 3: and that's why there's some.

759
00:38:34,422 --> 00:38:37,502
Speaker 2: Then there's a new drop, and then excited about the new.

760
00:38:37,422 --> 00:38:40,221
Speaker 3: Drop, which nothing ever runs out anymore, which I think

761
00:38:40,302 --> 00:38:44,741
Speaker 3: is why it's exciting to people. I also wonder do

762
00:38:44,822 --> 00:38:49,382
Speaker 3: we all need teddy bears now for support the rise

763
00:38:49,422 --> 00:38:51,862
Speaker 3: of the teddy bear like the jelly cat, which a

764
00:38:51,902 --> 00:38:55,062
Speaker 3: lot of people are very into, which Luna has one,

765
00:38:55,342 --> 00:38:57,701
Speaker 3: but I've seen adults collect them. Oh yeah.

766
00:38:57,741 --> 00:38:59,422
Speaker 1: To be clear, the market for all of this is

767
00:38:59,422 --> 00:39:01,661
Speaker 1: that adults, it's not actually children.

768
00:39:01,741 --> 00:39:07,221
Speaker 3: And is it that we feel so unsafe or unsettled

769
00:39:07,342 --> 00:39:10,982
Speaker 3: or anxious or concerned that we literally, like a toddler,

770
00:39:11,261 --> 00:39:13,341
Speaker 3: need to leave our house with a teddy bear or

771
00:39:14,342 --> 00:39:16,861
Speaker 3: and this might be an unpopular thing to say. I

772
00:39:16,942 --> 00:39:18,462
Speaker 3: kept looking at this, and this came to my head,

773
00:39:18,462 --> 00:39:20,861
Speaker 3: and I'm sorry if this is offensive. Do you want

774
00:39:20,862 --> 00:39:22,662
Speaker 3: a la boo boo? Or do you want a baby?

775
00:39:23,181 --> 00:39:26,502
Speaker 3: Because you know how people treat their dogs. I was

776
00:39:26,542 --> 00:39:29,462
Speaker 3: this for ten years, right, like in my twenties, my

777
00:39:29,542 --> 00:39:31,901
Speaker 3: dog was my baby. And there's this element of like

778
00:39:32,661 --> 00:39:34,582
Speaker 3: you have this instinct to look and care for something

779
00:39:34,661 --> 00:39:37,382
Speaker 3: and cuddle something really really cute, but you're not in

780
00:39:37,382 --> 00:39:38,702
Speaker 3: a position where you can have a baby.

781
00:39:39,181 --> 00:39:41,582
Speaker 1: Or do you want to be the baby? I don't know.

782
00:39:41,622 --> 00:39:46,382
Speaker 1: It's like Tamagotchi's it's like playing at being a mummy, yeah,

783
00:39:46,542 --> 00:39:48,701
Speaker 1: or being a baby. It's like you get to be

784
00:39:48,781 --> 00:39:51,221
Speaker 1: a baby that's pretending to be a mummy.

785
00:39:51,422 --> 00:39:55,062
Speaker 3: Which is also like there's something nostalgic about us all

786
00:39:55,102 --> 00:39:58,181
Speaker 3: trying to grasp back onto our childhood at a time, but.

787
00:39:58,142 --> 00:40:02,062
Speaker 2: Also we've extended it. We've extended childhood. Like if you

788
00:40:02,181 --> 00:40:04,062
Speaker 2: look if you look at the phenomena all over a

789
00:40:04,102 --> 00:40:06,422
Speaker 2: social media of girlhood and I'll often see them and

790
00:40:06,462 --> 00:40:09,221
Speaker 2: it'll say the definition of girlhood is and it'll be,

791
00:40:09,261 --> 00:40:10,901
Speaker 2: you know, being out with your mates whatever. And these

792
00:40:10,902 --> 00:40:13,701
Speaker 2: women are in the early twenties. They are not girls. Yeah,

793
00:40:13,822 --> 00:40:16,941
Speaker 2: you know, but we have extended childhood. And that's why

794
00:40:17,022 --> 00:40:19,582
Speaker 2: I think the toys coming with us, you know what

795
00:40:19,622 --> 00:40:22,301
Speaker 2: I mean, not ready to put away childish things. La

796
00:40:22,382 --> 00:40:25,981
Speaker 2: booboos are childish things. Plus these are childish things, then

797
00:40:26,022 --> 00:40:29,422
Speaker 2: it brings your joy and security. We are some of

798
00:40:29,462 --> 00:40:31,381
Speaker 2: the people because we were all a little bit apart

799
00:40:31,382 --> 00:40:33,701
Speaker 2: from me, who has had some knockoff laboobos for a

800
00:40:33,701 --> 00:40:36,382
Speaker 2: while now, some of the young women in our office,

801
00:40:36,701 --> 00:40:38,341
Speaker 2: we're not going to have it if we said that

802
00:40:38,382 --> 00:40:40,981
Speaker 2: the laboo boos were silly. They really liked them. Here's

803
00:40:41,022 --> 00:40:42,062
Speaker 2: a few of the things they said.

804
00:40:43,261 --> 00:40:46,661
Speaker 6: As the owner of all labooboos myself, I think there's

805
00:40:46,661 --> 00:40:48,781
Speaker 6: a few reasons why people are going so crazy for them.

806
00:40:49,422 --> 00:40:52,221
Speaker 6: First is really the scarcity. The fact that they're so

807
00:40:52,422 --> 00:40:54,022
Speaker 6: hard to get, so hard to get your hands on,

808
00:40:54,062 --> 00:40:57,262
Speaker 6: really adds to the appeal. Secondly, I reckon the blind

809
00:40:57,261 --> 00:40:59,701
Speaker 6: box element, not knowing which color you're going to get

810
00:40:59,862 --> 00:41:02,502
Speaker 6: when you buy one. There's a real mystery and excitement

811
00:41:02,622 --> 00:41:05,181
Speaker 6: around doing a la booboo unboxing.

812
00:41:05,781 --> 00:41:07,662
Speaker 3: And finally, I think they're just cute.

813
00:41:07,822 --> 00:41:10,341
Speaker 6: They're part creepy, part cute, and that makes them so

814
00:41:10,382 --> 00:41:14,381
Speaker 6: intriguing for me personally. I started out as a hater.

815
00:41:14,462 --> 00:41:16,862
Speaker 6: I'm not gonna lie. I didn't really understand the craze.

816
00:41:16,902 --> 00:41:19,781
Speaker 6: But the more Tiktoks I watched, the more drawn I

817
00:41:19,942 --> 00:41:22,462
Speaker 6: was to aboo boos. They're just silly and fun and

818
00:41:22,822 --> 00:41:26,302
Speaker 6: add a little something to your bag. I paid thirty

819
00:41:26,302 --> 00:41:28,901
Speaker 6: two dollars for mine, which is the price that they

820
00:41:28,902 --> 00:41:31,102
Speaker 6: are when you buy the first hand from PopMart, but

821
00:41:31,261 --> 00:41:33,261
Speaker 6: they are going for crazy amounts of money on the

822
00:41:33,302 --> 00:41:35,142
Speaker 6: retail market, double triple the price.

823
00:41:35,181 --> 00:41:35,622
Speaker 2: Sometimes.

824
00:41:36,022 --> 00:41:38,982
Speaker 7: At first, I thought Labooboo's were really weird and kind

825
00:41:39,022 --> 00:41:40,701
Speaker 7: of gave me the creeps a little bit, because they

826
00:41:40,701 --> 00:41:43,462
Speaker 7: have these evil little smiles and it's kind of like

827
00:41:43,502 --> 00:41:45,742
Speaker 7: one of those dolls that would get possessed in a movie,

828
00:41:45,822 --> 00:41:48,221
Speaker 7: to be honest, but I think the appeal came from

829
00:41:48,261 --> 00:41:50,582
Speaker 7: the fact that over time I just found them really cute.

830
00:41:50,622 --> 00:41:52,181
Speaker 3: They kind of remind me of like where the Wild

831
00:41:52,261 --> 00:41:52,741
Speaker 3: things are.

832
00:41:53,342 --> 00:41:55,661
Speaker 7: I love cute stuff, Like I'm very susceptible to a

833
00:41:55,661 --> 00:41:57,942
Speaker 7: cute thing like a jelly cat, So a labubu was,

834
00:41:57,982 --> 00:41:58,661
Speaker 7: you know, natural to.

835
00:41:58,622 --> 00:42:00,861
Speaker 3: Extep for me. But I just thought they were really fun.

836
00:42:01,261 --> 00:42:02,942
Speaker 7: I have put them on my bag at times, and

837
00:42:02,982 --> 00:42:05,582
Speaker 7: I kind of think, like, oh am I too old

838
00:42:05,582 --> 00:42:07,261
Speaker 7: for this, Like probably.

839
00:42:07,422 --> 00:42:09,981
Speaker 1: They are creepy if you can't it's some to mind

840
00:42:10,022 --> 00:42:12,142
Speaker 1: what a la booo looks like if you've never seen one.

841
00:42:12,781 --> 00:42:15,422
Speaker 1: They're a bit like cross between a gremlin and a

842
00:42:15,462 --> 00:42:17,262
Speaker 1: mogway if you're old enough to remember the movie.

843
00:42:17,661 --> 00:42:18,742
Speaker 3: Kind of like a Telly Tubby.

844
00:42:18,982 --> 00:42:21,702
Speaker 1: Yeah, weird evil, a little bit evil.

845
00:42:22,181 --> 00:42:24,422
Speaker 2: It's funny because and this ties in with some of

846
00:42:24,422 --> 00:42:26,382
Speaker 2: the other things we've been talking about today, like Hen's

847
00:42:26,422 --> 00:42:29,781
Speaker 2: parties and whatever is that. One of our wonderful coworkers

848
00:42:29,822 --> 00:42:32,142
Speaker 2: there made the point that the unboxing is part of

849
00:42:32,142 --> 00:42:34,422
Speaker 2: the whole thing. And what can you do with an unboxing?

850
00:42:34,582 --> 00:42:37,381
Speaker 2: You can film it turn it into content. So it's

851
00:42:37,502 --> 00:42:41,102
Speaker 2: like you get all the dopamine hits of shopping, surprise

852
00:42:41,342 --> 00:42:42,022
Speaker 2: and content.

853
00:42:42,221 --> 00:42:44,982
Speaker 3: And in a world of Chris Jenna's face, do you

854
00:42:45,022 --> 00:42:50,221
Speaker 3: want a little snaggle toothed demonic eyed Teddy Bear. Maybe

855
00:42:50,502 --> 00:42:51,182
Speaker 3: that's all we've.

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00:42:51,062 --> 00:42:53,622
Speaker 2: Got time for today. Out loud as a massive thank

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00:42:53,701 --> 00:42:56,302
Speaker 2: you for listening to our show and to our fabulous

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00:42:56,342 --> 00:42:58,782
Speaker 2: team for putting it together with all of us from home.

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00:42:58,701 --> 00:43:00,542
Speaker 1: While we were recording. I think I just bought a

860
00:43:00,582 --> 00:43:01,942
Speaker 1: fakaboboo by accident.

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00:43:03,102 --> 00:43:04,901
Speaker 2: I can't wait to see you and see how many

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00:43:04,902 --> 00:43:07,661
Speaker 2: things you've got dangling off your back. Tomorrow. We're going

863
00:43:07,741 --> 00:43:09,781
Speaker 2: to be back in your ears tomorrow and so he's

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00:43:09,862 --> 00:43:13,222
Speaker 2: La Boo booths. We'll see then, Bye bye bye.

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00:43:14,142 --> 00:43:17,062
Speaker 3: Shout out to any Mum and mea subscribers listening. If

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00:43:17,062 --> 00:43:19,062
Speaker 3: you love the show and you want to support us,

867
00:43:19,302 --> 00:43:22,221
Speaker 3: subscribing to MoMA Mia is the very best way to

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00:43:22,261 --> 00:43:24,702
Speaker 3: do so. There's a link in the episode description.