WEBVTT - Minister Katy Gallagher on Grief, Power, and the Moment Her Life Changed Forever 0:00:10.365 --> 0:00:13.085 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:13.885 --> 0:00:16.845 Mama Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.885 --> 0:00:18.485 that this podcast is recorded on. 0:00:18.645 --> 0:00:21.405 It was a doctor just saying to me, you're going 0:00:21.445 --> 0:00:23.765 to have to snap out of it in like in 0:00:23.805 --> 0:00:25.965 two months, you're going to have a baby and you 0:00:26.045 --> 0:00:28.445 have to look after this baby, and you're in you 0:00:28.485 --> 0:00:31.205 can't look after yourself, Like what are you thinking? And 0:00:31.245 --> 0:00:35.525 it was that doctor speaking very bluntly to me that 0:00:35.685 --> 0:00:37.485 made me kind of go, I have to get my 0:00:37.685 --> 0:00:38.325 shit together. 0:00:43.845 --> 0:00:48.245 Katie Gallaher's life has been shaped by heartbreak and resilience. 0:00:48.885 --> 0:00:52.205 She lost her first partner while she was pregnant, and 0:00:52.245 --> 0:00:56.925 those early experiences of grief and raising a child taught 0:00:56.965 --> 0:01:01.885 her about empathy, determination, and the kind of groundedness that 0:01:02.005 --> 0:01:07.925 comes from living through real struggle. Politics wasn't something she 0:01:08.125 --> 0:01:11.765 set out to do. Instead, it found her, but she 0:01:11.885 --> 0:01:16.525 brought her whole self to it, shaped by life not ambition. 0:01:17.285 --> 0:01:19.845 Through that journey, she's risen to hold some of the 0:01:19.845 --> 0:01:23.725 most significant roles in the Albanese government Minister for Finance, 0:01:24.045 --> 0:01:28.445 Minister for Women, Minister for the Public Service, Vice President 0:01:28.485 --> 0:01:32.285 of the Executive Council and since twenty twenty five Minister 0:01:32.445 --> 0:01:37.285 for Government Services. In this episode of No Filter, we 0:01:37.405 --> 0:01:41.525 really get to know the woman behind the politician. Katie 0:01:41.565 --> 0:01:45.685 shares the lessons she's learned, how her personal story informs 0:01:45.685 --> 0:01:50.165 her approach to public service, and what it means to 0:01:50.365 --> 0:01:55.765 undertake life with honesty, heart and a genuine desire to 0:01:55.845 --> 0:02:01.645 make a difference. While I welcome you, Katie, thanks so much. 0:02:01.685 --> 0:02:06.525 I am Katie, but I am not honorable, and you 0:02:06.605 --> 0:02:11.965 are the honorable. You are the honorable Katie Gallaher. You 0:02:12.045 --> 0:02:15.565 are the Minister for Finance, you are the Minister for Women, 0:02:16.925 --> 0:02:20.725 Minister for the Public Service. Okay, I don't know what 0:02:20.765 --> 0:02:23.525 any of that means, but I do know that you're 0:02:23.565 --> 0:02:25.605 very busy and we're very lucky to have you. 0:02:26.405 --> 0:02:29.765 Well, just there's loads of busy women right around the country. 0:02:30.085 --> 0:02:32.925 But it's lovely to be here. Really. What does your 0:02:33.405 --> 0:02:36.685 day look like? What have you done today? 0:02:38.245 --> 0:02:41.565 So today has been a pretty normal day. So lot 0:02:41.645 --> 0:02:45.885 on I did. Started with a radio interview, jumped on 0:02:45.925 --> 0:02:51.085 a plane to Sydney, done some meetings at different ends 0:02:51.125 --> 0:02:53.765 of Sydney. So I've been marching around with a giant umbrella, 0:02:53.845 --> 0:02:58.165 knocking in puddles and stuff and then I've come here. 0:02:58.245 --> 0:03:00.285 So it's been a full day and lots of different 0:03:00.685 --> 0:03:04.485 you know, lots of different subjects, different meetings. I did 0:03:04.525 --> 0:03:09.605 an ABC News interview at one of my meetings, squash 0:03:09.725 --> 0:03:14.365 that in. It's a very varied you know, there isn't 0:03:14.405 --> 0:03:16.365 like a normal day, I think, but. 0:03:16.485 --> 0:03:20.605 The days are start at what time, oh, pretty early. 0:03:21.605 --> 0:03:26.325 If I'm not doing an early radio interview or TV interview, 0:03:26.685 --> 0:03:29.925 I'd be talking with GYM or the PM or. 0:03:30.085 --> 0:03:31.525 Some colleagues pretty early. 0:03:31.965 --> 0:03:34.565 So I'm usually I get up and I'm just there's 0:03:34.605 --> 0:03:37.685 no kind of lounging and having a you know, having 0:03:37.725 --> 0:03:41.685 a sip of coffee or slowly waking up eyes open. 0:03:41.885 --> 0:03:47.445 I'm not the option to snooze, not really. Occasionally, when 0:03:47.485 --> 0:03:48.885 you do have a day where you can do that, 0:03:48.965 --> 0:03:51.965 it is super nice luxury, it is, and you really 0:03:51.965 --> 0:03:52.925 appreciate when you talk. 0:03:52.805 --> 0:03:56.085 About where you're traveling from, is that Canbra. 0:03:55.885 --> 0:03:59.165 Yeah, So I'm really fortunate in that regard. So when 0:03:59.205 --> 0:04:01.485 Parliament's sitting, I'm Canberra based. 0:04:01.605 --> 0:04:06.885 And also born and raised in Canberra, which made me 0:04:07.005 --> 0:04:11.445 think you really had no choice but to end up 0:04:11.445 --> 0:04:15.565 in politics. Did you grow up immersed in that world. 0:04:16.805 --> 0:04:19.325 A little bit like my parents, but more from my 0:04:19.845 --> 0:04:23.525 parents and their influence. Like my parents were both interested 0:04:23.565 --> 0:04:25.965 in politics. My dad was a public servant, but my 0:04:26.045 --> 0:04:27.445 mum was a community worker. 0:04:27.645 --> 0:04:31.405 That's Betsy, Yeah. And your dad Charles Charles. Yeah. 0:04:31.965 --> 0:04:35.045 And they had moved from the UK. They moved to 0:04:35.125 --> 0:04:37.565 Canberra in the late sixties. 0:04:37.845 --> 0:04:39.805 And why did they choose Canberra. 0:04:39.685 --> 0:04:43.165 Well, as parently to do with my dad's asthma, so 0:04:43.405 --> 0:04:46.485 that from the UK. I don't know why then Canberra 0:04:46.565 --> 0:04:51.245 because it is freezing for dry, Yeah, it is. 0:04:51.285 --> 0:04:56.045 Dry, but very dry. In fact, it's so dry. 0:04:56.245 --> 0:04:59.125 The rain today in Sydney has been so nice. But yeah, 0:04:59.165 --> 0:05:01.725 So they had moved. I think Australia was a place 0:05:01.765 --> 0:05:06.405 of opportunity, away from far, away from their previous life. 0:05:06.485 --> 0:05:10.965 And they just started together vine New Zealand. They actually 0:05:11.045 --> 0:05:15.005 met on a boat going to New Zealand. Oh I 0:05:15.045 --> 0:05:18.765 loved you ten pound poems. Was that that or after that? 0:05:18.925 --> 0:05:22.165 It was? It was after that And they were just 0:05:22.245 --> 0:05:25.445 separately going to New Zealand and met on the boat, 0:05:25.565 --> 0:05:28.725 fell in love, lived for a while in New Zealand 0:05:28.725 --> 0:05:29.605 and then. 0:05:29.645 --> 0:05:30.565 Moved to Canberra. 0:05:31.285 --> 0:05:34.165 And then you came along my sister in New Zealand 0:05:34.165 --> 0:05:36.925 and then I came along shortly after that, so I 0:05:36.965 --> 0:05:39.765 was born in nineteen seventy so yeah, they'd been in 0:05:39.805 --> 0:05:42.765 Canberra about a year and my dad had a job 0:05:42.805 --> 0:05:46.805 in the Parliamentary Library, so he was around politics. But 0:05:47.165 --> 0:05:49.765 I never, I don't know, I never thought I would 0:05:49.805 --> 0:05:50.605 be a politician. 0:05:50.805 --> 0:05:53.325 What did you think you would do? So you were 0:05:53.405 --> 0:05:57.125 quite musical growing up? Yeah, I did. I did play 0:05:57.165 --> 0:05:57.605 the cello. 0:05:58.045 --> 0:06:00.645 My mum wanted I think she really wanted us as 0:06:00.765 --> 0:06:03.525 children to learn the piano and the cello or anything 0:06:03.685 --> 0:06:06.685 any music. And I was I was kind of I 0:06:06.685 --> 0:06:09.885 don't know, I wasn't a rebellious child. So you know, 0:06:10.125 --> 0:06:13.085 your mum goes, Katie, Yeah, learning the cello, I was like, 0:06:13.125 --> 0:06:18.005 oh okay, well okay, I'd go lugging this giant instrument around, 0:06:18.245 --> 0:06:19.045 bigger than you. 0:06:19.445 --> 0:06:22.085 Sometimes I wish for a violin. Yeah, you know, I 0:06:22.165 --> 0:06:25.205 played the violin horrendously. Well, I just. 0:06:25.205 --> 0:06:27.125 Loved the look of everyone walking around with their little 0:06:27.205 --> 0:06:27.965 violin bags. 0:06:28.165 --> 0:06:30.765 Then that would be me and this thing. So at 0:06:30.805 --> 0:06:35.565 what point did you so your mum, Betsy was I 0:06:35.565 --> 0:06:40.085 think renowned for having a very active social conscience. Is 0:06:40.085 --> 0:06:43.405 that right to and what how did that manifest in 0:06:43.485 --> 0:06:44.245 your life? 0:06:45.285 --> 0:06:49.005 So, yeah, Mum was a big yeah, just involve. I 0:06:49.005 --> 0:06:51.365 think she got to Canberra and she ended up having 0:06:51.365 --> 0:06:56.045 four children under five. My two brothers came after Claire 0:06:56.085 --> 0:06:59.525 and I and they were the first house in the street. 0:06:59.565 --> 0:07:03.205 There was no services, no supports. She was from the UK. 0:07:03.405 --> 0:07:07.165 I can't imagine how isolating that would be like to 0:07:07.245 --> 0:07:10.925 get my head around that, so far from everything you 0:07:11.005 --> 0:07:14.445 knew for young children, a husband that worked all the time, 0:07:14.605 --> 0:07:17.405 in a street without any you know, she told me 0:07:17.605 --> 0:07:19.325 you'd have to walk quite a long way to get 0:07:19.365 --> 0:07:21.245 to the phone box and anyway. 0:07:21.285 --> 0:07:22.205 Sounded horrendous. 0:07:22.325 --> 0:07:26.925 But so she went about sort of building services and supports, 0:07:27.005 --> 0:07:30.925 like getting women together, getting children together, and from that, 0:07:31.285 --> 0:07:34.125 you know, she just became this kind of community dynamo 0:07:34.365 --> 0:07:37.765 that if there wasn't something there, she would build it 0:07:37.885 --> 0:07:40.765 or get other people to kind of create the social 0:07:40.805 --> 0:07:43.045 infrastructure that helped people. 0:07:43.165 --> 0:07:45.485 And so I think for her, even. 0:07:45.285 --> 0:07:49.325 As we got older, she was always rescuing things, whether 0:07:49.365 --> 0:07:52.085 it be animals or children, And so we grew up 0:07:52.125 --> 0:07:54.485 with a lot of different animals and a lot of 0:07:54.525 --> 0:07:58.085 different children in our house who she usually was trying 0:07:58.085 --> 0:08:02.885 to give the mum a break to make that relationship work. Yeah, 0:08:03.045 --> 0:08:04.965 we're never too sure what you were going to come 0:08:04.965 --> 0:08:06.765 home to or who you were going to come home to. 0:08:06.805 --> 0:08:10.245 And Dad was a very easy going persons because I 0:08:10.245 --> 0:08:12.645 don't know how much he was consulted about any of this, 0:08:12.965 --> 0:08:15.005 but you know, and it was back in the day 0:08:15.005 --> 0:08:18.125 when nothing was regulated, so you could just go and say, 0:08:18.165 --> 0:08:21.045 I'll take your kids for yes, you know, yes. 0:08:21.165 --> 0:08:24.365 Two weeks, three weeks. And you could have a dog, yes, 0:08:24.445 --> 0:08:26.925 without it being registered with the council. And you could 0:08:26.965 --> 0:08:28.765 have a cat that was allowed to go outside. 0:08:28.965 --> 0:08:31.045 Yes, you could have all that. We had, kangaroos, we 0:08:31.125 --> 0:08:34.165 had sheep. It was all in our back garden. Yeah, 0:08:34.445 --> 0:08:38.285 guinea pigs, mice, you know, you name it. We kind 0:08:38.285 --> 0:08:40.205 of was the house where everything was happening. 0:08:40.645 --> 0:08:43.845 And so you had this template because I often think 0:08:44.605 --> 0:08:47.285 parents is often an emphasis, and particularly I think for 0:08:47.365 --> 0:08:50.525 women of you know, we like to say I tell 0:08:50.565 --> 0:08:52.405 my children this, and I tell them that, and I 0:08:52.525 --> 0:08:55.205 tell them they're self worth. And but what we learn 0:08:55.325 --> 0:08:58.405 most from is what is modeled for us, I think. 0:08:59.005 --> 0:09:02.805 And so through your mother you had this modeling of 0:09:03.965 --> 0:09:10.125 if something didn't exist, you build it. And also you welcome, Yeah, 0:09:10.285 --> 0:09:13.285 you welcome those who were in need. Absolutely. And then 0:09:13.325 --> 0:09:17.685 at what point did young Kadi Gallaher go, I think 0:09:17.725 --> 0:09:22.605 there's a life for me in politics. Well that sort 0:09:22.605 --> 0:09:25.045 of happened accidentally. I did grow up. 0:09:25.525 --> 0:09:28.245 My dad was a much more introverted character, but he 0:09:28.405 --> 0:09:31.485 still demonstrated sort of the same thing that the same 0:09:31.485 --> 0:09:33.405 work mum did, but in different ways. So he was 0:09:33.405 --> 0:09:36.965 a lifeline counselor and he was you know, he would 0:09:37.165 --> 0:09:41.245 support prisoner families because we didn't have a prison in 0:09:41.285 --> 0:09:44.045 the Act server runs. If you're a prisoner, you got 0:09:44.045 --> 0:09:45.605 sent to New South Wales and. 0:09:45.765 --> 0:09:47.005 He would do a lot of work there. 0:09:47.045 --> 0:09:51.285 So they definitely demonstrated to me and my siblings it 0:09:51.325 --> 0:09:54.525 wasn't enough to just exist in a society. You had 0:09:54.525 --> 0:09:57.525 to participate, you know, you had to involve yourself, you 0:09:57.525 --> 0:09:59.725 had to be a part of it. And so we 0:09:59.765 --> 0:10:01.885 all grew up like that, like my sisters and nurse 0:10:02.125 --> 0:10:05.645 you know, has spent her entire life caring for others 0:10:05.245 --> 0:10:11.045 in a hospital, and I started in in community work, 0:10:11.165 --> 0:10:14.725 so working with people with a disability and I loved that. 0:10:15.205 --> 0:10:17.445 So was that like social work or yeah, it was. 0:10:17.645 --> 0:10:21.285 It was like a community worker we would break with disability, 0:10:21.845 --> 0:10:26.685 you know, care advocate, so I became a formal advocate 0:10:26.685 --> 0:10:29.725 where you advocate on a person with the disabilities behalf. 0:10:29.845 --> 0:10:34.445 So we were closing down sheltered workshops and big institutions 0:10:34.525 --> 0:10:37.685 and it was a really kind of exciting work and 0:10:37.725 --> 0:10:41.765 I loved that. Then you know, life happens, events happened. 0:10:42.125 --> 0:10:44.845 I joined the Labor Party by then because I'd seen 0:10:44.965 --> 0:10:49.085 things like the Disability Discrimination Act come into being, and 0:10:49.685 --> 0:10:51.525 I knew that was because of a Labor government and 0:10:51.565 --> 0:10:54.565 it was changing people's lives and that really excited me 0:10:54.765 --> 0:10:55.725 and interested me. 0:10:56.165 --> 0:10:57.965 Who was in power then. 0:10:58.205 --> 0:11:02.445 That was under Bob Hawk, Yeah, and it was Susan Ryan, 0:11:02.565 --> 0:11:05.245 who was kind of lead as a minister was leading that. 0:11:05.885 --> 0:11:08.805 But again I'd put the two things together. I could 0:11:08.805 --> 0:11:13.085 see how politics could change people's lives and in this 0:11:13.165 --> 0:11:16.525 case for the better, and that interested me. And I'd 0:11:16.565 --> 0:11:20.085 been at Union done a politics degree, so I understood politics, 0:11:20.165 --> 0:11:23.005 but I hadn't joined a political party. But it was 0:11:23.045 --> 0:11:27.005 at that point that I was like, that's where I belong. 0:11:27.725 --> 0:11:30.725 That's the party that represents my values. And that's when 0:11:30.765 --> 0:11:33.725 I joined that. But I just joined it as anyone 0:11:33.725 --> 0:11:36.405 else you know, like a member. I never thought i'd 0:11:36.445 --> 0:11:39.565 be a politician, but you know, life happens, and sometimes 0:11:39.605 --> 0:11:42.085 you come to a big moment or a fork in 0:11:42.085 --> 0:11:45.725 the road and life sent you on another path. You 0:11:45.805 --> 0:11:48.165 weren't expecting it and you didn't seek it out. 0:11:49.405 --> 0:11:50.725 What was that moment for you? 0:11:50.965 --> 0:11:54.445 Well, that was when so my partner died in a 0:11:54.605 --> 0:11:58.805 Yeah he at the time, yeah, yeah, So he was 0:11:58.885 --> 0:12:02.005 very active in the labor party. He and I were 0:12:02.005 --> 0:12:05.165 going to get married. I was pregnant with our baby. 0:12:05.645 --> 0:12:06.605 How old were you then? 0:12:06.885 --> 0:12:10.725 I was twenty seven, right, yeah, twenty six, probably twenty six, 0:12:10.805 --> 0:12:16.125 twenty seven. And he would if you'd known us back then, 0:12:16.325 --> 0:12:20.205 he would have been the front person in that, you know, 0:12:20.245 --> 0:12:23.285 he would have been the active kind of I could 0:12:23.405 --> 0:12:28.085 definitely imagine him as a politician. He was more extroverted, absolutely, 0:12:28.605 --> 0:12:32.205 and yeah, just involved in everything, whereas I was your 0:12:32.205 --> 0:12:35.565 average branch member, just going along having a nice glass 0:12:35.605 --> 0:12:36.845 of wine, you know. 0:12:37.085 --> 0:12:41.925 Yeah. Yeah. And what was his interest? What was Brett's 0:12:41.965 --> 0:12:44.925 interest in politics? Yeah? 0:12:44.965 --> 0:12:48.005 Well he was he was a big union guy. So 0:12:48.085 --> 0:12:51.565 he he'd worked as a union officer, he'd worked for 0:12:51.605 --> 0:12:52.565 the nurses union. 0:12:52.805 --> 0:12:53.725 Just before the accident. 0:12:53.845 --> 0:12:57.645 He was about to work with the Public Service Union, 0:12:58.365 --> 0:13:01.125 so he'd very much come from a kind of workers' 0:13:01.285 --> 0:13:07.965 rights you know, position Act you wish, Yeah, so the 0:13:07.965 --> 0:13:11.165 equivalent in the Act. But he was well connected, you know, 0:13:11.245 --> 0:13:14.485 and he was great with people, and he was enthusiastic, 0:13:14.485 --> 0:13:16.285 and it was all the things that you can see 0:13:17.325 --> 0:13:19.645 people working their way up through the labor party. 0:13:19.845 --> 0:13:25.445 He had all of that and obviously other personal attributes 0:13:25.605 --> 0:13:28.165 as well that made you fall in love with him. 0:13:28.685 --> 0:13:32.605 Yeah, yeah, I mean interesting, you know, yeah, I mean 0:13:32.645 --> 0:13:36.085 it's been a long time since he passed away, but yeah, 0:13:36.125 --> 0:13:38.365 we were just like any other young couple in there, 0:13:39.085 --> 0:13:39.405 you know. 0:13:39.325 --> 0:13:44.445 So you're age, everything's ascendant. Really, it's one of those 0:13:44.485 --> 0:13:48.125 sweet spots in life. Both of you are on an 0:13:48.205 --> 0:13:52.965 upward trajectory with each other and with your lives. I 0:13:53.005 --> 0:13:55.805 did not know this about you, didn't you. I did 0:13:55.885 --> 0:14:02.525 not know, And it explains I think so much of 0:14:02.965 --> 0:14:06.885 how you're described, which is always very empathetic and someone 0:14:06.885 --> 0:14:12.605 who has a very grounded understanding of life. And I 0:14:12.645 --> 0:14:15.245 think that often that comes from people because they also 0:14:15.285 --> 0:14:18.765 have an understanding of death. And that is what happened 0:14:18.765 --> 0:14:23.725 with Brett. What happened. So thank you for that that's 0:14:23.805 --> 0:14:25.005 very nice of you to say that. 0:14:25.165 --> 0:14:28.805 And there is something in experiencing death at a young 0:14:28.845 --> 0:14:32.525 age that shapes you. I definitely think that is true. 0:14:34.445 --> 0:14:35.525 So Brett had ridden. 0:14:35.605 --> 0:14:39.525 He was a bike rider, like road bike rider, and 0:14:39.845 --> 0:14:44.445 he and I had been down to essentially near was 0:14:44.565 --> 0:14:48.765 in Mount Beauty, so around there Beautiful in what was 0:14:48.765 --> 0:14:50.085 called the ord As Challenge. 0:14:50.125 --> 0:14:52.325 I think it's like a two hundred kilometer bike rade. 0:14:52.405 --> 0:14:56.685 My husband has ridden. He's also a cyclist. Yeah, and 0:14:56.765 --> 0:15:02.565 so when I was discovering this about you, it was chilling. Yeah. 0:15:02.845 --> 0:15:06.605 So he'd just done that race and we decided to 0:15:06.885 --> 0:15:09.125 kind of take the slow road back to Canberra, which 0:15:09.205 --> 0:15:12.565 was through the coast road, so up the south coast. 0:15:12.925 --> 0:15:15.885 So you're coming from the high country in Victoria exactly, 0:15:16.045 --> 0:15:17.245 you're making your way back. 0:15:17.645 --> 0:15:20.765 Yeah, And we thought we'd have an extra night away, 0:15:20.805 --> 0:15:24.125 so we stopped at Marimbula and for the night and 0:15:24.165 --> 0:15:26.165 then we're going to stay. I think we were going 0:15:26.205 --> 0:15:27.925 to stay a couple of nights and then head back 0:15:27.925 --> 0:15:31.565 to Canberra. And he went out for a bike ride 0:15:31.805 --> 0:15:35.405 that morning. So the first morning we were there and 0:15:35.445 --> 0:15:38.205 we arranged to meet at the beach he would finish 0:15:38.285 --> 0:15:40.085 his ride and have a swim. I would wait for 0:15:40.165 --> 0:15:43.405 him at the beach and he just never showed up, 0:15:43.725 --> 0:15:47.405 and you know, I had to go and try and 0:15:47.445 --> 0:15:50.285 find him. Where it was before mobile phones, it was 0:15:50.325 --> 0:15:52.685 before you know, it's a different world than what you 0:15:52.765 --> 0:15:55.125 have now, where you can sort of track people and 0:15:55.165 --> 0:15:59.245 trace and you know, because I thought, oh, maybe he's 0:15:59.285 --> 0:16:01.685 got a flat tire, he's stuck on the roads, you know, 0:16:01.845 --> 0:16:05.365 he's and there was no way of contacting me. And 0:16:05.405 --> 0:16:08.325 so I went out looking for him and couldn't find him. 0:16:08.365 --> 0:16:09.765 So I rang all the hostspits. 0:16:09.925 --> 0:16:11.645 How did you know where to start to look? 0:16:11.845 --> 0:16:15.205 Well, Mimenbial is pretty small, and I knew he was 0:16:15.245 --> 0:16:16.085 going for about an hour. 0:16:16.005 --> 0:16:18.325 And a half, so i'd be along the coast, probably 0:16:18.365 --> 0:16:18.845 around them. 0:16:18.925 --> 0:16:22.325 Yeah, And I thought i'd follow the main roads because 0:16:22.365 --> 0:16:24.285 I think he would have been on those, like he 0:16:24.325 --> 0:16:27.365 wouldn't have gone off on a track. And anyway, I 0:16:27.405 --> 0:16:32.205 couldn't find him. I rang the hospitals. Nobody, you know, 0:16:32.365 --> 0:16:35.925 the two kind of local hospitals. Nobody could help me there, 0:16:37.365 --> 0:16:39.805 And so I just kept driving and driving, getting more 0:16:39.805 --> 0:16:43.205 and more worried because time was, you know, was our 0:16:43.245 --> 0:16:46.405 time to meet up had significantly elapsed, so I knew 0:16:46.445 --> 0:16:51.645 something was wrong, and I turned on the local radio station. 0:16:51.765 --> 0:16:54.405 I heard on the radio that the. 0:16:54.365 --> 0:16:57.325 Police were looking for the relatives of a cyclist who'd 0:16:57.365 --> 0:17:01.085 been killed earlier that morning, and that's how I found out. 0:17:01.565 --> 0:17:04.805 So yeah, I mean, even when I talk about it now, 0:17:04.845 --> 0:17:06.325 it's Abby, our. 0:17:06.245 --> 0:17:08.525 Daughter, who was amazing. 0:17:09.405 --> 0:17:13.885 I was about fourteen weeks pregnant, so it was reasonably early, 0:17:13.925 --> 0:17:16.525 but people knew and we'd been sort of celebrating that. 0:17:18.325 --> 0:17:21.485 It's about it's twenty eight years ago now almost twenty nine, 0:17:21.685 --> 0:17:24.565 and yeah, it's still like when I talk through it, 0:17:24.605 --> 0:17:29.445 I can still viscerally remember that day and how it was. 0:17:29.965 --> 0:17:33.765 And then how do you how do you transition out 0:17:33.765 --> 0:17:41.205 of a period like that that is marked by so 0:17:41.365 --> 0:17:46.325 much grief, grief for the loss of bread, grief for 0:17:46.365 --> 0:17:48.525 the loss that you were going to have, the life 0:17:48.565 --> 0:17:50.605 you were going to have. But at the same time, 0:17:51.285 --> 0:17:56.285 you're pregnant with your first child. How was that? How 0:17:56.285 --> 0:17:57.685 did you approach that? 0:17:58.285 --> 0:18:01.445 So I was terrible, Like, the real and honest answer 0:18:01.525 --> 0:18:02.565 is I was terrible. 0:18:02.725 --> 0:18:03.205 I was. 0:18:05.045 --> 0:18:08.685 I've never I hope to never experience that again. But 0:18:08.925 --> 0:18:11.885 I sunk into a very deep depression. 0:18:13.045 --> 0:18:14.045 So as you say. 0:18:14.085 --> 0:18:17.765 I'd gone from thinking, you know, this is my life, 0:18:17.805 --> 0:18:20.325 I'm on this path, and all of a sudden something happens. 0:18:20.805 --> 0:18:25.445 Brett was hit by a car and by someone who'd 0:18:25.445 --> 0:18:27.965 had a restricted license as well, so I shouldn't have 0:18:27.965 --> 0:18:30.405 actually been driving. So there was a lot of this, 0:18:31.205 --> 0:18:33.845 a lot of this how could this happen? So I 0:18:33.885 --> 0:18:39.285 went through that this is very awful, unfair, kind of 0:18:39.325 --> 0:18:41.965 selfish grief, but I don't mean that in a negative way, 0:18:42.085 --> 0:18:44.485 just kind of you're in that zone. And then I 0:18:44.525 --> 0:18:47.285 think I sunk into a much deeper depression that actually 0:18:47.525 --> 0:18:49.805 I needed to get help to get out of I 0:18:50.005 --> 0:18:53.525 was I was in, you know, it wasn't I stopped eating, 0:18:53.525 --> 0:18:56.085 I stopped drinking, I stopped communicating with anyone, and I 0:18:56.125 --> 0:18:56.645 was pregnant. 0:18:56.685 --> 0:18:59.405 I ended up in hospital dehydrated. 0:18:59.605 --> 0:19:02.125 I ended up only being let out if I agreed 0:19:02.125 --> 0:19:05.765 to see a psychiatrist. And then I got in the 0:19:05.805 --> 0:19:08.565 high risk pregnancy clinic and they didn't know what to 0:19:08.605 --> 0:19:12.645 do with me. So all of that happened, and in 0:19:12.685 --> 0:19:15.965 the end, I went on antidepressants at the right time, 0:19:16.165 --> 0:19:20.285 and that got me in reasonable shape, along with some 0:19:20.485 --> 0:19:24.205 therapy and being left to myself. Really I moved into 0:19:24.245 --> 0:19:26.245 a house by myself because I couldn't go back to 0:19:26.245 --> 0:19:29.845 where we lived, and I just bunkered down. 0:19:30.365 --> 0:19:34.085 And where were your parents and your family in that period, 0:19:34.485 --> 0:19:39.205 and your union family and your ALP family. So they 0:19:39.245 --> 0:19:39.925 were all around. 0:19:39.965 --> 0:19:42.405 I mean Dad had passed away a couple of years 0:19:42.405 --> 0:19:45.165 before that, and they were all wanting to help, but 0:19:45.245 --> 0:19:50.245 I was so into my grief nobody really could. I had, 0:19:50.325 --> 0:19:52.485 you know, friends would wait outside for me to open 0:19:52.525 --> 0:19:54.285 the door, and I just wouldn't open the door because 0:19:54.285 --> 0:19:58.165 I couldn't confront what was going on. Like I just 0:19:58.245 --> 0:20:03.125 felt so sideswiped and it was so diffent, you know, 0:20:03.205 --> 0:20:06.285 it was just unimaginable. And then to have people looking 0:20:06.325 --> 0:20:08.765 at me and feeling sorry for me would tip. 0:20:08.605 --> 0:20:09.285 Me over the deep. 0:20:09.405 --> 0:20:11.845 And so I think that was really hard for my 0:20:11.925 --> 0:20:14.085 family and friends because at that time they wanted to 0:20:14.125 --> 0:20:16.565 help me a lot, and I couldn't accept their help. 0:20:16.605 --> 0:20:19.005 I had to and I'm still a bit like this. 0:20:19.085 --> 0:20:22.965 When something difficult happens, I have to work through it 0:20:23.045 --> 0:20:25.565 myself to get out of it. And that's what happened, 0:20:25.605 --> 0:20:29.085 with the help of some medication, and it was a 0:20:29.125 --> 0:20:31.845 doctor just saying to me, you're going to have to 0:20:31.845 --> 0:20:34.885 snap out of it in like, I don't know, in 0:20:34.925 --> 0:20:37.525 two months time with your baby coming, you're going to 0:20:37.605 --> 0:20:39.925 have a baby, and you have to look after this baby, 0:20:40.005 --> 0:20:42.645 and you're in you can't look after yourself, Like what 0:20:42.685 --> 0:20:46.645 are you thinking? And it was that doctor speaking very 0:20:46.645 --> 0:20:49.325 bluntly to me that made me kind of go, I 0:20:49.365 --> 0:20:52.605 have to get my shit together, like this is real 0:20:53.325 --> 0:20:57.005 and I have to get myself together. And but I 0:20:57.005 --> 0:20:59.805 didn't do any pre natal care. 0:21:00.045 --> 0:21:00.445 I didn't. 0:21:00.685 --> 0:21:04.085 I mean I didn't do anything about delivery, you know, 0:21:04.165 --> 0:21:05.485 labor and delivery. 0:21:05.245 --> 0:21:08.445 Class So how to go to the classes? I couldn't. 0:21:08.485 --> 0:21:09.045 You couldn't. 0:21:09.805 --> 0:21:12.205 You couldn't, So I knew nothing, which is probably better. 0:21:12.485 --> 0:21:15.685 And also because if you went into the classes and 0:21:15.725 --> 0:21:19.205 you didn't have the man who was the father of 0:21:19.245 --> 0:21:21.205 your baby with you, you would have to do so 0:21:21.325 --> 0:21:24.645 much explaining that just the thought of that, yeah it's 0:21:24.685 --> 0:21:26.165 not cropping. Yeah. 0:21:26.365 --> 0:21:28.085 So I didn't do any of that. I had no 0:21:28.125 --> 0:21:31.365 connection to anything. And in fact, the day I went 0:21:31.365 --> 0:21:33.605 into labor, I rang my sister and told her I 0:21:33.645 --> 0:21:38.285 had a stomach ache, and she like, Katie, I think 0:21:38.325 --> 0:21:40.845 you have more than a stomach ache, and went and 0:21:40.845 --> 0:21:44.805 that's when it dawned on me, like I was so dislocated. 0:21:45.605 --> 0:21:48.525 It's really odd. I don't know how to describe it. Anyway, 0:21:48.565 --> 0:21:52.045 the minute that baby came out, I tell you, everything, 0:21:52.805 --> 0:21:56.725 everything went up, you know everything, I just I had 0:21:56.765 --> 0:21:57.405 something else. 0:21:57.525 --> 0:21:59.245 You return to yourself. 0:21:59.485 --> 0:22:03.925 Yeah, it was almost almost immediate. Like I was still 0:22:04.285 --> 0:22:07.405 very lonely and on my own and wanting to do that, 0:22:07.445 --> 0:22:14.325