Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mamma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia out loud. It's what women are actually talking about.
Speaker 2: On Wednesday, the sixteenth of October. I'm Holly Waynwright and
Speaker 2: I am back from my holiday.
Speaker 3: I'm Jesse Stevens and I'm m Vernham filling in for
Speaker 3: mea today. You can normally hear me on our daily
Speaker 3: entertainment podcast The Spill.
Speaker 2: Clearly we have a one in one out I am,
Speaker 2: I came back and Mia fed off anyway, on the
Speaker 2: show today, we were looking for a Madam Finance, but
Speaker 2: he's not in the office today. What happened to women
Speaker 2: when one of the most macho work cultures in the
Speaker 2: world tried a four day work week? Also, the Prime
Speaker 2: Minister bought a very expensive house. You might have heard,
Speaker 2: so is this perfectly fine class betrayal.
Speaker 3: Or just a little quiet quit?
Speaker 2: Two two two four two three And don't try to
Speaker 2: make a five year a seven year, you idiot? Why
Speaker 2: number woo wu is so very hot right now?
Speaker 4: But first, the US has sent its strongest known written
Speaker 4: warning to Israel demanding Israel boost aid to Gaza or
Speaker 4: risk losing military support. The Biden administration sent this letter
Speaker 4: to Israeli leaders on Sunday, expressing their deep concerns about
Speaker 4: the deteriorating humanitarian situation. The letter referred to the Israeli
Speaker 4: government denying or impeding nearly ninety percent of humanitarian movements
Speaker 4: between northern and southern Gaza last month, and demanded that
Speaker 4: they take steps to improve conditions within thirty days.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 4: The US is by far the biggest supplier of arms
Speaker 4: to Israel and their biggest ally, which makes this letter
Speaker 4: really significant. It's also only nineteen days until the presidential election.
Speaker 4: The warning comes amid a new Israeli offensive in northern Gaza,
Speaker 4: which has reportedly called caused a large number of civilian
Speaker 4: casualties and forced one point seven million people into a
Speaker 4: narrow area where they are at risk, the letter says,
Speaker 4: of lethal contagion. You might have also seen the distressing
Speaker 4: footage of a burning hospital in Gaza with civilians inside,
Speaker 4: which killed at least four injuring dozens of others. The
Speaker 4: Israeli military said the target of the strike was a
Speaker 4: Hamas command center. Meanwhile, missiles, rockets and drones are being
Speaker 4: directed at Israel, with thousands of Israelis seeking refuge in
Speaker 4: bomb shelters.
Speaker 6: Last week marked.
Speaker 4: One year since the October seven attack carried out by Hamas,
Speaker 4: where twelve hundred people were killed, two hundred and fifty
Speaker 4: four hostages were taken, and ninety seven hostages are yet
Speaker 4: to be recovered. Since the war began, more than forty
Speaker 4: two thousand Palestinians have been killed, according to Gaza's Ministry
Speaker 4: of Health.
Speaker 2: Listen, it's completely normal to feel helpless and overwhelmed in
Speaker 2: the face of what is now an ex banding and
Speaker 2: seemingly unending horror in the Middle East. So we just
Speaker 2: wanted to give you a few details of some of
Speaker 2: the aid organizations who are operating in the region who
Speaker 2: need support more than ever if you're able to give it.
Speaker 2: Doctors without Borders are operating in both Gaza and Lebanon.
Speaker 2: Any donation to them pays for consultations, surgeries, treatments and vaccinations.
Speaker 2: World's Central Kitchen is a remarkable organization. They go all
Speaker 2: over the world wherever they're needed, so at the moment,
Speaker 2: as well as operating still in Gaza Lebanon, and Israel.
Speaker 2: They're actually also operating in the hurricane hit areas of
Speaker 2: the United States and many other areas all over the world.
Speaker 2: They provide emergency food relief and they have served more
Speaker 2: than seventy million meals in Gaza since the conflict began.
Speaker 2: Plan International focus on Girls and children. They do things
Speaker 2: like provide basics like blankets, cash assistance in areas of need.
Speaker 2: They're operating in Gaza and Lebanon, and of course UNICEF,
Speaker 2: whose Children of Gaza appeal is entering its twelfth month.
Speaker 2: They provide suppert for children that can include things like
Speaker 2: water purification tablets and School in a Box, which is
Speaker 2: one box that contains enough education supplies to keep forty
Speaker 2: students learning in the most difficult circumstances. We are putting
Speaker 2: the links to all of those organizations in today's show notes.
Speaker 3: And to say, across any developments across the Middle East,
Speaker 3: you can always tune into our daily news podcast, The Quickie.
Speaker 3: We will put a link in our show notes to that.
Speaker 7: The four day work week is slowly transforming from a
Speaker 7: thing of dreams into a reality.
Speaker 5: With Medibank expanding its trial.
Speaker 3: Companies in Australia are trialing a four day work week,
Speaker 3: and it's looking pretty good for women.
Speaker 6: As a woman, I think it sounds great.
Speaker 3: Well, you, Jesse and Holley work part time. Woll interesting,
Speaker 3: they're already work time?
Speaker 2: Why not? Because I don't work in the office five
Speaker 2: days a week, nine to five. That's true, but I
Speaker 2: don't have any days off.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we work a part time at Mama Maya and
Speaker 4: then we do other things on the side, so it
Speaker 4: feels like a bit of a freelancing gik.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that yes. Anyway, Well, look, we're defensive already,
Speaker 2: to tell we're defensive already, and me is not even here.
Speaker 3: So let's I was gonna I was gonna say that
Speaker 3: both of you have it really good right now, but
Speaker 3: I'm quite scared, so I'm not going to say that.
Speaker 3: So Medibank have been trialing this with their employees and
Speaker 3: they've adopted the one hundred eighty one hundred model, which
Speaker 3: is one hundred percent pay for eighty percent hours at
Speaker 3: one hundred percent productivity. A lot of people were like,
Speaker 3: this is never going to work for women, because, as
Speaker 3: you guys say, so many women do work part time
Speaker 3: and they feel like they're just working full time. But
Speaker 3: on like four days instead of five. Yeah, but some
Speaker 3: of the insights from this trial has actually shown that
Speaker 3: employee satisfaction, motivation, and engagement is up. There's also been
Speaker 3: significant reductions in unhealthy eating, sleep disturbances, and job related stress.
Speaker 3: From other trials at aren't the Medibank trials, it was
Speaker 3: shown that men took more responsibility at home, so it
Speaker 3: took on more of that at home labor now only
Speaker 3: with the.
Speaker 2: Man in there four days a week.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if they were working four days a week, so
Speaker 3: it's not equal to women, but it's more than what
Speaker 3: I'm assuming they were doing nothing before. Yeah, all right
Speaker 3: to see. So previous trials also indicated that there was
Speaker 3: a reduced in stress, burnout, and absenteesm with a forty
Speaker 3: four point three percent decrease in sick leave. Now, because
Speaker 3: of these results, a company called Insignia Financial, which is
Speaker 3: a huge finance company in Australia, will now be trialing
Speaker 3: the four day work week as well, which is going
Speaker 3: to be the first in its sector to do so.
Speaker 2: Because finance is known as a very like Matro, work
Speaker 2: till you drop, long hours, work hard, play hard, all
Speaker 2: that kind of culture. So it is significant that they're
Speaker 2: taking it up. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Are you on board with the four day work week?
Speaker 3: Jess Stevens.
Speaker 4: I loved this story because recently there was another news
Speaker 4: story that came out. It was a report by the
Speaker 4: Productivity Commission. Did you guys see this? And it was
Speaker 4: about the childcare rebate and universal childcare and early childhood
Speaker 4: education and parents kind of accessibility to that. And there
Speaker 4: was an interesting article written in the Sydney Morning Herald
Speaker 4: by a friend of mine, Charlotte Mortlocke, and she wrote
Speaker 4: about how a lot of the incentives that are dangled
Speaker 4: in front of prospective parents involve spending less time with
Speaker 4: their kids. Now, the early childhood education conversation is one thing,
Speaker 4: and the Productivity Commission that was their scope, so I
Speaker 4: totally understand that. But the other side of the conversation
Speaker 4: is exactly the four day work week, which is we've
Speaker 4: talked about how people are deciding to have less kids
Speaker 4: or no kids, the declining birth rate, which is economically problematic,
Speaker 4: and I think the reason a lot of people are
Speaker 4: having less kids or deciding not to have them is
Speaker 4: also because of the finite resource that is time.
Speaker 6: They go.
Speaker 4: I don't have time to raise them a lot of
Speaker 4: people will have one child and then go, I don't
Speaker 4: have time to raise another one. I can barely raise one.
Speaker 4: We're talking a lot about the finite resource of money,
Speaker 4: which is cost of living crisis. I don't have another bedroom.
Speaker 4: I couldn't afford another set of an app is whatever
Speaker 4: it is. But this is the other one that I
Speaker 4: think parents are yelling out about going the equation of
Speaker 4: having two full time working parents and kids isn't working
Speaker 4: in a lot of places all over the world. The
Speaker 4: US Surgeon General came out a few weeks ago to
Speaker 4: say that it is a significant public health crisis parental stress,
Speaker 4: and there aren't services and support for parents.
Speaker 6: I wonder if we shifted, say.
Speaker 4: Universally to a four day work week, if people would
Speaker 4: have more kids.
Speaker 3: They definitely would.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not that I'm as obsessed with you are as
Speaker 2: there being lots more children running around everywhere, but they
Speaker 2: definitely would because and in a minute, I will play Mia,
Speaker 2: because if Mia was here, she'd be going.
Speaker 6: Somebody needs to think of the bosses.
Speaker 2: And I promise you, Mia, wherever you're listening to this,
Speaker 2: that we will think of the bosses in a moment.
Speaker 2: But one of the things that is life changing for
Speaker 2: families if they can do it. Is if you can
Speaker 2: both work a four day week but have a different
Speaker 2: day off, right, then that considerably reduces your childcare costs,
Speaker 2: It considerably reduces your stress, It improves people's diet, It
Speaker 2: improves almost every indicator, right, And that is an ideal situation.
Speaker 2: Brent has never worked five full days in office since
Speaker 2: we had kids. He went part time when we had Billy,
Speaker 2: I think, so he went four days. The thing is
Speaker 2: is that what a lot of people get kind of
Speaker 2: a bit sniffy about is they're like, well, who can
Speaker 2: afford to it four days? But what a lot of
Speaker 2: people do now is they supplement their income with other
Speaker 2: things and they build it around those hours or whatever.
Speaker 2: But it's when they're talking about four days, they mean
Speaker 2: I have to be either in an office or in
Speaker 2: a workplace, or in a hospital or in where I
Speaker 2: have to be in change my desk or my job
Speaker 2: for those four days. Often people will tack on other
Speaker 2: work around. But also in the won't somebody think of
Speaker 2: the bosses situation. What this is talking about is in
Speaker 2: order to get your four day work week, I mean,
Speaker 2: the conditions are the output has to remain the same. Yea,
Speaker 2: So that means the four days that you work are
Speaker 2: going to be exceptionally full on days. But most women
Speaker 2: and men in fact who work part time would tell
Speaker 2: you that is already their reality, right, So it's never
Speaker 2: going to work for every workplace. And I know that
Speaker 2: whenever we talk about flexible work, working from home, all
Speaker 2: those things, there will be a large portion of the
Speaker 2: audience and the population who get very pissed off because
Speaker 2: they're like, it's just not possible for everybody. But work
Speaker 2: has never been the same for everyone. People have always
Speaker 2: worked shift work, work in different.
Speaker 3: Places, you know.
Speaker 2: I know a lot of nurses, for example, who since
Speaker 2: having kids, have rearranged their shifts to work three really
Speaker 2: full on long days, but then have more days off.
Speaker 2: Like that has always happened in different professions. There's never
Speaker 2: been a blanket. Everyone in the world works nine to five.
Speaker 6: And other yes.
Speaker 4: But the thing about women going part time is obviously
Speaker 4: there's a financial cost to that, and there's also a
Speaker 4: career at a cost because often you have to sort
Speaker 4: of stop at whatever level you're at. Whereas if the
Speaker 4: four day week were to become completely normalized, which a
Speaker 4: lot of part time women are doing anyway, then that
Speaker 4: would kind of mean that it's more of an even
Speaker 4: playing field.
Speaker 6: What do you make of it?
Speaker 3: I unpopular opinion me. Always call me a liar, but
Speaker 3: I'm actually not on board with the four day week.
Speaker 3: I think she should be on board because I can
Speaker 3: honestly say it's the model. I think it's the model
Speaker 3: of the four day week that they're working towards the
Speaker 3: one hundred percent pay, eighty percent hours, one hundred percent
Speaker 3: of productivity.
Speaker 6: That bit. I would rather if that would say sixty percent.
Speaker 2: That's because of your life stage, right, Without wanting to
Speaker 2: be really presumptuous, it's like you want that bit of
Speaker 2: flex at work to like socialize, leave early, sometimes, gather
Speaker 2: in the kitchen for a long lunch, whatever it might be.
Speaker 3: Not that you do that.
Speaker 2: I'm not suggesting anyone does that.
Speaker 3: You know I do that. You've seen lab.
Speaker 2: But what I mean is what you will notice about people.
Speaker 2: And again I'm generalizing so much, but mothers who come
Speaker 2: back to it, they are so fricking efficient with their time.
Speaker 2: They are working every minute there in the office. They're
Speaker 2: not funny and about having a chit chat.
Speaker 3: I mean some are.
Speaker 2: Obviously, but like, because if you're trying to cram it
Speaker 2: all in and you know you've got to walk out
Speaker 2: the door at four o'clock or whatever you might have
Speaker 2: negotiated to get to an early childcare pickup or whatever,
Speaker 2: you are squeezing that time.
Speaker 3: I don't have kids, so I don't have the burden
Speaker 3: of childcare. I also don't have a man to take
Speaker 3: on the responsibility at homes. I still have that, but
Speaker 3: I can honestly say that right now, in my five
Speaker 3: day week, I'm probably at about an eighty percent max productivity,
Speaker 3: and knowing if I went to a four day week,
Speaker 3: I'd have to up that to one hundred percent, and
Speaker 3: I don't want to do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very fair because at different times in your life,
Speaker 2: different things are more important. So there have been times
Speaker 2: in my work life where I've negotiated less pay for
Speaker 2: more time off, for example, or you know, like you
Speaker 2: negotiate around those things because it's what's important to you
Speaker 2: at that time. And there are different times in your
Speaker 2: life where time is the most important.
Speaker 4: Don't you reckon though that, Especially in the finance sector,
Speaker 4: although I can see in a lot of different sectors
Speaker 4: with all the talk of AI and how it's going
Speaker 4: to change our lives. If AI can't give us a
Speaker 4: day back, then what's the point. If I was speaking
Speaker 4: to a teacher recently who said that they had this
Speaker 4: AI system come in, which is to the amount of
Speaker 4: paperwork after as a teacher, and it's streamliner. What they
Speaker 4: did in this session was they use this technology and
Speaker 4: it he said it would take four hours off my
Speaker 4: work week.
Speaker 8: Right.
Speaker 6: What this technology could.
Speaker 4: Do what I don't want to do is then have
Speaker 4: us fill it with other shit or like try and
Speaker 4: stretch out our workload or pile more onto us. If
Speaker 4: we can all get this AI stuff that some people
Speaker 4: seem very excited about to take one day of work
Speaker 4: off us, then isn't the point of technology so that
Speaker 4: we can have a bit of freedom and sit by
Speaker 4: the beach.
Speaker 2: And some space to have creative ideas for our bosses?
Speaker 4: Me?
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, rather than are doing all the fun creative
Speaker 9: stuff that meme that goes around that says something like
Speaker 9: I would like AI to clean my house and file
Speaker 9: my I don't want it doing their interesting thing.
Speaker 6: While I know.
Speaker 2: Amantha Rembo, who was quoted in the MoMA Mea article
Speaker 2: about this right. She is an amazing productivity innovation consultant
Speaker 2: who I interviewed her for a podcast. Like I want
Speaker 2: to say, like maybe eight years ago. She is the
Speaker 2: first person. She was a boss running a company who
Speaker 2: at that time had implemented flexible working locations. So at
Speaker 2: that time, her team and it's a relatively small team,
Speaker 2: admittedly it was maybe fifteen people. They had to be
Speaker 2: in the office on XT day, next day, and the
Speaker 2: rest of the days they could be wherever they wanted
Speaker 2: in the world. It didn't as long as they got
Speaker 2: their worked on. At the time, that boggled my tiny
Speaker 2: mind so much. It was so out there. And now
Speaker 2: she actually has re implemented people being in the office
Speaker 2: on certain days. They haven't gone full flexibility, but she
Speaker 2: says the way that she works it with her team
Speaker 2: Monday to Thursday, everybody works hard, some remotely, some not,
Speaker 2: but like very full on hours and then they get
Speaker 2: together on Thursday and decide. She says, people look at
Speaker 2: their annual goals, they break them down into what they've
Speaker 2: got to do, and they work out whether they've achieved
Speaker 2: everything they wanted to achieve. To take Friday off without
Speaker 2: feeling anxious or guilty about it, and like, imagine, if
Speaker 2: you can get work to a place where it's less
Speaker 2: about you being there and more about what you produce,
Speaker 2: then you can do that. Yeah, And I think that's
Speaker 2: the dream.
Speaker 6: Out louders, let us know what you think. Are you
Speaker 6: doing a four day work week?
Speaker 4: Because I have a lot of friends who are doing
Speaker 4: a four day work week at the moment, and I
Speaker 4: must say they are looking.
Speaker 3: To them, I bet.
Speaker 2: They are not your teacher friends though are.
Speaker 6: Now We're not my teacher friend until.
Speaker 2: The school goes to four days a week, that's not
Speaker 2: going to be available to work in hospitals a lot
Speaker 2: of sort of I don't know if it's government technically,
Speaker 2: but like public health type stuff.
Speaker 4: Enormous amount of outpush. But you know, Fridays, honestly, they're
Speaker 4: getting more sleep than the rest of us.
Speaker 3: So I'm sure if me is listening right now or
Speaker 3: any other bosses are kind of rolling their eyes at
Speaker 3: this whole four day work week. But I think what
Speaker 3: they would get on board with is the actual model
Speaker 3: that everyone's trialing, which is the one hundred pay for
Speaker 3: eighty percent of hours for one hundred percent of productivity.
Speaker 3: So productivity actually isn't decreasing in the four.
Speaker 4: Day work week, Yeah, exactly. And I think that on
Speaker 4: the surface, a lot of bosses go, hang on, who's
Speaker 4: going to be here on a Friday, like especially if
Speaker 4: you work in retail or you work in like somewhere
Speaker 4: that needs to be staffed all of those days they're
Speaker 4: going It just doesn't add up. You could kind of
Speaker 4: shift your staff around like.
Speaker 3: Some because I think if we were actually talking about
Speaker 3: this with me out because I guess we have like
Speaker 3: about ten riders. Someone needs to be writing all the time,
Speaker 3: like we write like seven days a week. But instead
Speaker 3: of having a team of ten in one go, you
Speaker 3: have a team of five, which actually means that team
Speaker 3: of five has to work.
Speaker 2: I don't give her any ideas she's gonna get on board.
Speaker 10: I understand I've been fortunate, which is why I want
Speaker 10: to help all Australians into a home, whether it be
Speaker 10: public homes or private rentals or home ownership.
Speaker 4: Australian Prime Minister Anthony Alberanezi has purchased a new home
Speaker 4: and if you would like all the details, you better
Speaker 4: believe I have them. I love looking at pictures of
Speaker 4: real estate.
Speaker 2: This is quite a good real estate, pawny juicy.
Speaker 6: The bathtub has of you. I love a bathtub with
Speaker 6: a view.
Speaker 4: That's He bought the new South Wales Central Coast property
Speaker 4: for four point three million dollars. It has four bedrooms,
Speaker 4: three bathrooms and it's built as cliff top perfection as
Speaker 4: well as a premiere location to enjoy sun whale watching
Speaker 4: or spectacular sunsets all ye around.
Speaker 3: It also has an entertainment section that faces north and
Speaker 3: from talking to rich people, I know that's the place
Speaker 3: you want to face.
Speaker 6: It's always not why they always bring up north.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because against the sun. And you don't want to
Speaker 3: be south because like you're turning it back against the world.
Speaker 4: So rich people north always because north facing and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 4: it's north facing the north of my life. But four
Speaker 4: labor MPs are not in the mood to buy albern
Speaker 4: easier housewarming gift. They expressed frustration at the PM's decision,
Speaker 4: with one MP remarking I can't think of a greater
Speaker 4: act of self sabotage in my life. I am god smacked.
Speaker 4: Another said if you're a Labor MP up against a
Speaker 4: Green at the next election, good luck. Uh huh anow
Speaker 4: They're added, it's not a good look, and they're instinct
Speaker 4: is this is fucking terrible. Some were even said to
Speaker 4: have tried to stop it. So why is it such
Speaker 4: a bad move? Well, all of this is six months
Speaker 4: before an election. There is an election to be held
Speaker 4: in May that will be fought primarily on housing affordability.
Speaker 4: Voters are of course dealing with high interest rates, rents
Speaker 4: and property prices, not to mention a housing shortage. And
Speaker 4: Albernizi also has an investment property which is for sale
Speaker 4: for one point eight five million dollars. Here's what Opposition
Speaker 4: leader Peter Dutton had to say.
Speaker 7: Well, it's a matter for the Prime Minister, but I
Speaker 7: wish sare Hee and Jodie well, and they're obviously planning
Speaker 7: for the next stage of life post politics, and I
Speaker 7: wish them well in that.
Speaker 4: Until twenty nineteen, Dutton himself actually had four properties in Queensland.
Speaker 4: He sold one, his beachfront Gold Coast property, for six
Speaker 4: million dollars a few years ago. Holly Dutton is clearly
Speaker 4: suggesting that our Benizi is looking towards retirement. Is that
Speaker 4: what it looks like to you?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: It is. Look I'm really conflicted about this. I want
Speaker 2: to be clear. There's some people saying this is the
Speaker 2: thing that's going to lose him in the election. Now
Speaker 2: that is silly on its face. It's silly because really
Speaker 2: we don't vote like about what politicians do in their
Speaker 2: personal life, whether they're buy a house or not. You
Speaker 2: vote for the party who's got the policies that most
Speaker 2: aligned with your values. Da da da da da. So
Speaker 2: whether or not Albo lives on the Central Coast and
Speaker 2: a four million dollar house is not really important.
Speaker 3: But I entirely agree with.
Speaker 2: The Labor MP who said this is an act of
Speaker 2: self sabotage because I do not understand the timing. I
Speaker 2: do not understand it. I understand that Albanezi is at
Speaker 2: a brink of a new era in his personal life.
Speaker 2: As he said when he was talking about why he's
Speaker 2: doing it now, he and Jody are about to get married.
Speaker 2: His fiancee, Jody Hayden. He said she's from the Central Coast.
Speaker 2: Do they want to have a base there? And all
Speaker 2: of that is great, but he's just handed a big
Speaker 2: stinking pile of pooh to everyone who doesn't like him
Speaker 2: because the Greens can use this against him because they
Speaker 2: can basically say, oh, wouldn't it be nice talk to
Speaker 2: the renters of Australia who were fighting rent hikes. Look
Speaker 2: at the entire generation who can't even dream of buying
Speaker 2: a home in a city because they're so unaffordable. It
Speaker 2: must be nice for you, Albow. You're out of touch
Speaker 2: the liberals, who it is laughable that they are making
Speaker 2: anything of this because if you added up their property
Speaker 2: portfolio as they'd be significantly more. But they can go
Speaker 2: while the nation struggles with the cost of living. Nice
Speaker 2: for Elbow to be looking to his future, and it
Speaker 2: does kind of seem like the kind of decision you'd
Speaker 2: make if you didn't care what everyone was going to say,
Speaker 2: And if you're going for reelection in six months, you
Speaker 2: care what everyone's going to say. We could predict, and
Speaker 2: we are not political advisors, that this was going to
Speaker 2: be a storm for him.
Speaker 4: The only thing I'm thinking is I was looking at
Speaker 4: the property prices of this particular house, and he got
Speaker 4: it for less than.
Speaker 6: It was sold for last time.
Speaker 4: So in my mind, if I'm just looking at Anthony
Speaker 4: Alberanesi as an average person who wanted to buy a house,
Speaker 4: he's going well, if I don't buy my dream house now,
Speaker 4: I'm going to lose the opportunity because someone else is
Speaker 4: going to get it now. It's politicians make really good money.
Speaker 4: The base rate for a politician would put their household
Speaker 4: in the top ten percent of Australian households, and that's
Speaker 4: before accounting for the fact that they might be married
Speaker 4: and their spouse might also bring in some income. So
Speaker 4: this group of people are exceptional. And when you're talking
Speaker 4: about negative gearing or interest rates, which are impacting the
Speaker 4: wider Australian population more than it's impacting the people who
Speaker 4: are kind of in charge of making these policies, I
Speaker 4: do understand that I agree with you, Holly, that I
Speaker 4: look at this and go there are massive issues that
Speaker 4: we want to discuss as a nation, even globally. I
Speaker 4: want to talk about policies, not necessarily what Alberanize.
Speaker 6: Is choosing for.
Speaker 4: But I saw it compared to when Scott Morrison went
Speaker 4: to Hawaii during the bushfires and didn't tell anyone that
Speaker 4: he'd gone on holidays, which wasn't a policy eerror, but
Speaker 4: when he was eventually voted out, that was the thing
Speaker 4: voters remember. Like this comparison is so simple. Annabel Krab
Speaker 4: wrote a brilliant piece on this, like, in voters' minds,
Speaker 4: you just went and got your cliff top mansion for
Speaker 4: the two of you to live in. While a report
Speaker 4: came out I think just this week saying that eighty
Speaker 4: percent of Australians believe young Aussies.
Speaker 6: Will never afford their own home exactly. And what did
Speaker 6: you make of all this?
Speaker 3: I felt personally betrayed, alban Ezi.
Speaker 6: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think you're right. I think, especially with young voters,
Speaker 3: like the thing you grab onto is like their personal
Speaker 3: decisions are the people you're voting for. And Anthony ALBERANIZI
Speaker 3: was that guy that came from nothing, that made something
Speaker 3: from himself, and he's like the everyday guy and he's
Speaker 3: able to relate to us. And this is like what
Speaker 3: his third house, So he's got two on taxpayers and
Speaker 3: this is the one he bought.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and he's gotten property.
Speaker 3: He's just like a mansion. I just look at that
Speaker 3: and I'm like, oh, I really hope you're going to
Speaker 3: rent that out the internet.
Speaker 2: Well I don't because you've probably charged way too much
Speaker 2: rent for it. But I think that what's interesting about that, right,
Speaker 2: is that Albo in particular has very much always been lefty,
Speaker 2: a man of the people. And one of the things
Speaker 2: that's interesting for lefties who've always seen themselves as that.
Speaker 2: And his first speech is Prime Minister. He quoted lyrics
Speaker 2: from Billy Bragg. Right, here's a down in the dirt
Speaker 2: lefty guy who's always been into a bit of class
Speaker 2: warfare himself. But one of the big struggles for those
Speaker 2: people as they get middle aged is that they become
Speaker 2: the establishment. Right now, he's the man, and he's not
Speaker 2: rich in the way that say a Malcolm Turnbull is rich.
Speaker 2: But he bought his first property when properties were affordable
Speaker 2: for ordinary people who earn ordinary money, and now that
Speaker 2: is not the case for ordinary people who earn ordinary
Speaker 2: money in a city. So it's not like he has
Speaker 2: played the markets, been a venture capitalist, been like a
Speaker 2: professional money maker. But he is by the nature of
Speaker 2: his generation and the timing and the financial choices he's made,
Speaker 2: he's now the position of the guy who can buy
Speaker 2: the cliff top mansion. And so he looks to you,
Speaker 2: the bad guy like you, And I was like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, you're part of the problem. And he probably
Speaker 2: would never see himself that way. But that just makes
Speaker 2: it even more like a bizarre decision. Why wouldn't you
Speaker 2: wait six months till after the election and then buy
Speaker 2: clifftop match.
Speaker 4: So the only thing I can think is that the
Speaker 4: man believes he's going to lose.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 4: I just kept going looking at this house and looking
Speaker 4: at the story and how a lot of people were going,
Speaker 4: don't buy it.
Speaker 3: Now it's going to look really, really bad as his
Speaker 3: retirement plan.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because as you say, he's got harbor views from
Speaker 4: his Curebilly manchat.
Speaker 2: Which it doesn't his but he's allowed to live in it,
Speaker 2: and he's also allowed to live in the house in Canberra,
Speaker 2: so he's got two different places to live.
Speaker 6: He's selling his investment.
Speaker 3: And he has to move out straight away if he loses.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I wondered that, Like, I'm sure that they're not
Speaker 4: going to kick him out onto the straight.
Speaker 2: You do have to move out straight away if you lose,
Speaker 2: well pretty quickly.
Speaker 3: Well maybe it's not like you to if Jackie Kennedy
Speaker 3: had to do it.
Speaker 2: The thing that's tricky here, right is that again, on
Speaker 2: the face of it, the man's allowed to do what
Speaker 2: he wants, and it isn't relevant about what kind of
Speaker 2: prime ministery is. But and this was also in the
Speaker 2: Annabel Crab piece, which is very true. It's what we
Speaker 2: expect from leaders. They're only really in that gig, most
Speaker 2: of them for a short time, and what we expect
Speaker 2: from them in that time is that they won't necessarily
Speaker 2: do all the things they want. There was a guy
Speaker 2: in that piece who was quoted as saying Tony Barry,
Speaker 2: who's a former liberal person but he's a strategist now,
Speaker 2: and he said, one of the golden rules of leadership
Speaker 2: is that you just can't do all the things you'd
Speaker 2: like to do, like overseas holidays, like selling investment properties,
Speaker 2: like buying spectacular waterfront real estate homes. It's true, right,
Speaker 2: is that just for that period of time. And I
Speaker 2: love Albow, he's my guy, but I'm like, mate.
Speaker 6: There was a crazy choice.
Speaker 2: I think he's in love in a big way, which
Speaker 2: is lovely, but like mate.
Speaker 6: Don't we all want to go and buy a match
Speaker 6: with the love of our lives.
Speaker 2: It's the other thing that's interesting listening to people's reactions
Speaker 2: about this is who thinks that four million dollars is
Speaker 2: a lot of money, and who doesn't.
Speaker 3: That is very telling.
Speaker 6: Also, what unlimited out loud access.
Speaker 4: We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mamma
Speaker 4: mea subscribers. Follow the link in the show notes to
Speaker 4: get us in your ears five days a week.
Speaker 6: And a huge thank you to all our current.
Speaker 2: Subscribers, Astrology, tarot and maths. You've heard us talk a
Speaker 2: lot about Woo woo lately on Mamma Mia out Loud.
Speaker 2: We all downloaded some app that told us what the
Speaker 2: stars had in store for us today today. Apparently, friends,
Speaker 2: I'm not allowed to meddle, So if I offer any
Speaker 2: opinions about your clothes, your lunches, or something you say
Speaker 2: in a meeting, just remind me of that. Anyway, Now,
Speaker 2: everywhere I look, people are talking about numbers. And when
Speaker 2: I say people, I mean celebrities. First of all, I
Speaker 2: was listening to an interview with Zoe Foster Blake that
Speaker 2: Clastives did for but are you happy? It was great
Speaker 2: and in it she revealed that her mom is a
Speaker 2: numerology devotee and that she was concerned that Zoe was
Speaker 2: trying to make a nine year a seven or something. Anyway,
Speaker 2: we'll get back to that later. And then I learned
Speaker 2: that for the cool people, having a necklace or a
Speaker 2: tattoo that displays your angel number, which might be something
Speaker 2: like two two two like Kylie Jenners or one four three,
Speaker 2: which is both the name of Katy Perry's new album
Speaker 2: and her angel number, is extremely cool. This is what
Speaker 2: Katy Perry said about what makes your angel number and
Speaker 2: why hers is one four three.
Speaker 5: One four three, and it means I love you in
Speaker 5: a digital language. And that came to me actually at
Speaker 5: a time that was pretty tough and I was looking
Speaker 5: for some guidance and this number started appearing, and so
Speaker 5: I called it my angel number. Some people are attracted
Speaker 5: to eleven eleven, some people like you know, two two
Speaker 5: two a look. For me, it was a sign, It
Speaker 5: was a symbol, and it came to me at a
Speaker 5: really tough time when I was having a lot of anxiety,
Speaker 5: and it was just so comforting and I would see
Speaker 5: it in so many different places, and then I looked
Speaker 5: it up and I was like, well, what does this
Speaker 5: number mean?
Speaker 3: I love you?
Speaker 2: Isn't that wo woo and silly? I said to all
Speaker 2: my colleagues who for the purposes of this conversation, I
Speaker 2: will not refer to as esteemed. No, they said Emily Vernon,
Speaker 2: what's a necklace with her angel number on it? A
Speaker 2: head of content? Eliza was thinking about a bracelet. Here
Speaker 2: are a few other things that the Mama Mere team
Speaker 2: said about their angel numbers.
Speaker 8: I do believe in angel numbers. I have for a while,
Speaker 8: since I was younger. With my friend, we always saw five,
Speaker 8: five five. It means abundance and that good things are coming.
Speaker 8: And so now I wear a five five five necklace
Speaker 8: around my neck.
Speaker 7: I don't really believe in them, but i'd like to.
Speaker 7: I'm open to it.
Speaker 11: I definitely believe in angel numbers. I feel like the
Speaker 11: universe is looking out for us in all different ways.
Speaker 11: I see one, two, three four almost every single day,
Speaker 11: whether that's the time or on a building, it's always
Speaker 11: kind of and it means that you're progressing and growing
Speaker 11: and that the universe is kind of guiding you on
Speaker 11: the right path.
Speaker 7: No, I don't believe in angel numbers.
Speaker 3: I've never even thought about it. The only time, and
Speaker 3: it's not even a time or a number thing.
Speaker 7: It's when I look at my phone. For some reason,
Speaker 7: a lot of the time it's twelve thirteen, and that
Speaker 7: became a personal joke. But that's the only thing that
Speaker 7: I can think of in terms of having significance to numbers.
Speaker 1: Yes, I like to believe in them, and anytime I
Speaker 1: see a loved one's birthday, I like to think that
Speaker 1: that's a nice little you're going well today, Or when
Speaker 1: I see eleven eleven, I always make a wish.
Speaker 12: I definitely believe in angel numbers. I see eleven eleven
Speaker 12: pretty much every day, and it's just a reminder for
Speaker 12: me that the angels are around me, whether that's my
Speaker 12: guides or people that have passed over, and it just
Speaker 12: makes me feel very much connected to them.
Speaker 2: Surely, I thought, Jesse Stevens will be into this silliness.
Speaker 2: Jesse Stevens, I said, do you have weird numbers that
Speaker 2: you think about all the time? And Jesse Stephens said, yes,
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 6: I said, of course. I said, I've never said it
Speaker 6: out loud. I'm too ashamed.
Speaker 4: And then I think I might have said it out loud,
Speaker 4: which is that I was born on the twenty first
Speaker 4: of the twelve so obviously two to one one two.
Speaker 4: The house I grow up in with was twenty one.
Speaker 4: The postcode was two to one some something. That number
Speaker 4: to me has always been very significant, so I googled
Speaker 4: it to be like, well, what does the number twenty
Speaker 4: one mean?
Speaker 6: And it means abundance, and.
Speaker 4: I think it all means abundance actually, which made me
Speaker 4: feel very very special. But I also was thinking I've
Speaker 4: got the same thing with a song. I've never said
Speaker 4: this out loud either, because it's mortifying, but there's a
Speaker 4: song that, like, the first time I played maybe I
Speaker 4: was like graduating year twelve, right, and then you know,
Speaker 4: the day I hand in my master's thesis, the day
Speaker 4: I finished writing my book one of my first days
Speaker 4: with the lunar is a song that comes on the
Speaker 4: radio that is a very rare, weird song. And this
Speaker 4: would never wear something around my neck or something, cause
Speaker 4: so I feel like these things are very private, like, and.
Speaker 3: It's almost you were scared to tell us.
Speaker 4: I was really scared because I was like, oh, this
Speaker 4: is my own woo woo.
Speaker 6: I'm not even sure what I think it means.
Speaker 4: But what those responses said about feeling safe or feeling
Speaker 4: like there is some sense in the universe reminded me
Speaker 4: of this conversation I listened to recently with doctor Emily
Speaker 4: on The Imperfect and it was all about uncertainty, and
Speaker 4: she said that we have grown increasingly intolerant of all uncertainty.
Speaker 4: So we walked into the office this morning and all
Speaker 4: of us were mad because our weather app said it
Speaker 4: was going to be cool, but it was quite hot,
Speaker 4: and that really pissed us off. So the weather app
Speaker 4: and then you were probably on your maps if you
Speaker 4: were going somewhere, and then you know, you've googled what's
Speaker 4: wrong with you before you go and see the doctor.
Speaker 4: Our muscle for uncertainty is not being strengthened, and therefore
Speaker 4: any time that uncertainty might pop up, we look for
Speaker 4: And I think this happens in times of great uncertainty,
Speaker 4: like when people get a diagnosis or grief.
Speaker 2: Will going to Hell and a Hamburg?
Speaker 4: Yes, we go, Oh, I actually have to hold really
Speaker 4: tightly onto things because then everything will be certain. And
Speaker 4: apparently that's not very good for us. Apparently what we
Speaker 4: should all be doing is practicing our uncertainty. So the
Speaker 4: example they had was like when you go to a restaurant,
Speaker 4: like maybe don't look at Google reviews before you go
Speaker 4: because that's the other thing we do is it needs
Speaker 4: to be four point nine stars because we can't possibly
Speaker 4: risk having a subpar meal, whereas years ago the uncertainty
Speaker 4: that we lived in was enormous, Like this has happened
Speaker 4: in a very very short amount of time. And what's
Speaker 4: your relationship with your angel numbers?
Speaker 3: What is your angel and number? So mine's a bit
Speaker 3: complicated my journey with angel number.
Speaker 2: Please tell me.
Speaker 3: Firstly, I'm numerically dyslexic, so this was a very fad.
Speaker 2: Same which took me a really long time to figure.
Speaker 3: This out, very hard for me to take on. I
Speaker 3: originally thought when angel numbers started becoming a thing, because
Speaker 3: I think it was definitely my generation where I just
Speaker 3: started hearing it, maybe like four or five years ago.
Speaker 3: I was like, this is so silly. I think it's
Speaker 3: just like the astrology girl he's got on board of astrology.
Speaker 3: We all know our star signs, that we all knew
Speaker 3: our like rising moon phases, so that angel numbers felt
Speaker 3: like the next thing to progress to, which is why
Speaker 3: where I feel like we are at now. So the
Speaker 3: number that I see consistently when I was a child
Speaker 3: was twelve, and like.
Speaker 4: Similarly, twenty one and also one and two, but wherely
Speaker 4: for you.
Speaker 3: Like every time I would look at the clock could
Speaker 3: always be twelve twenty one. Yeah, And then I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: this could be my angel number, but I actually don't
Speaker 3: like the look of it. It looks a bit ugly.
Speaker 3: So then I told myself my angel number was two
Speaker 3: two two because I like the look of that. And
Speaker 3: since telling myself that, I've been looking for two to
Speaker 3: two two to come up much. It comes up quite
Speaker 3: a lot because I'm waiting for it. So sometimes when
Speaker 3: it's like the clock it's like two twenty, I like, wait,
Speaker 3: so it's like two twenty one.
Speaker 2: If you went to get this on a necklace or whatever, M.
Speaker 3: I did what you did? I got two two two
Speaker 3: on a necklace.
Speaker 2: Is the purpose of that to make you feel like
Speaker 2: when you see the two two two or you touch
Speaker 2: your necklace or something, that you feel like cared for
Speaker 2: the purpose by the universe.
Speaker 3: When you wear your necklace, people go what does that mean?
Speaker 3: And then you go, oh, this is my angel nembor
Speaker 3: and they're like what's that? And I was like, yeah,
Speaker 3: everyone's answer to that. That's so funny.
Speaker 2: So I thought this was bullshit right, particularly the numerology thing.
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't understand and I can't add up.
Speaker 3: But we struggled with the.
Speaker 2: Math I was looking after I heard Zoey Foster Blake
Speaker 2: say that thing about like it's a seven year or
Speaker 2: whatever she said, and I'm sorry that I've mangled whatever
Speaker 2: it was that she said. I was like, that's such nonsense.
Speaker 2: And then I worked out how you work out what
Speaker 2: number year it is for you, And it's some complicated
Speaker 2: thing where you add your birthdays together and then you
Speaker 2: de blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: It's all the workers.
Speaker 2: And one of the things I've been bitching about a
Speaker 2: lot lately is that this year I was supposed to
Speaker 2: be less busy, but I appear to be more busy,
Speaker 2: and I've taken on a lot of extra work and
Speaker 2: I should be more organized about it. And it's good
Speaker 2: because it's good financially, but it's making my life hard.
Speaker 2: And I bitch about that to anyone who listened. Jesse,
Speaker 2: you hears me talk about it. But is that the
Speaker 2: universe's fault?
Speaker 3: Well, I added up my years. It's before for me.
Speaker 2: This year focuses on hard work and security. The opportunities
Speaker 2: will be fantastic if you're willing to knuckle down, but
Speaker 2: you need to be organized in all of your endeavors,
Speaker 2: manage your time, money and resources carefully, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2: And I was like, shit, it's true.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's been a shame for you last
Speaker 3: year and the year before.
Speaker 2: Every year is just a stupid four where it's like
Speaker 2: I say yes to things I should have said no to.
Speaker 4: It's probably an addition error. Honestly, you're probably actually in
Speaker 4: your year six only.
Speaker 3: Hearing us love and abundance, Like we're all love and abundance.
Speaker 2: That's interesting about the eleven eleven because my late mother
Speaker 2: in law, who regular out loud as well know, was
Speaker 2: definitely on the woo wu side. She's psychic. She's an
Speaker 2: amazing woman. She was always like, when you see eleven eleven,
Speaker 2: it means the spirit world is trying to tell you something.
Speaker 6: And I was like, oh, is it just eleven eleven?
Speaker 3: Really, Julie?
Speaker 2: But every time I see eleven eleven, obviously think of Julie,
Speaker 2: But I don't think that means Okay.
Speaker 4: What it actually is is it something called the frequency illusion,
Speaker 4: which is a cognitive bias, which means that, for example,
Speaker 4: you'll be listening to out loud and we'll say something
Speaker 4: like let's say we'll say the name Andrew Garfield, and
Speaker 4: then in the next three weeks you will go, Andrew
Speaker 4: Garfield is everywhere ever since I heard them talk about it,
Speaker 4: and yeah, maybe he's on a publicity trail. But the
Speaker 4: point is that we have planted a seed and suddenly
Speaker 4: you're seeing something that you probably saw our thousand times
Speaker 4: before but never noticed. So that's the thing about angel numbers, right,
Speaker 4: is that if you go right now, you choose a
Speaker 4: number out of nowhere. Like the fact every time I
Speaker 4: see twenty one, I noticed she just have an emotional
Speaker 4: response means that I'm seeking it out, like it's just
Speaker 4: how the brain works.
Speaker 2: She's ruined all our fun But I like it. And
Speaker 2: I also like the fact that this week is literally
Speaker 2: the first time I've ever heard about angel numbers, and
Speaker 2: am said about five years ago, me and all my
Speaker 2: young girl friends started getting into them, so that tells
Speaker 2: you everything.
Speaker 4: Also mentioned that the woman who invented angel numbers regrets it,
Speaker 4: regrets it and was like, actually, I totally made it.
Speaker 3: Everyone's blaming me problem.
Speaker 2: I want to make something like that.
Speaker 3: I know devil number idea.
Speaker 10: I could have loved it.
Speaker 2: All right. That is all we've got time for today.
Speaker 2: A massive thank you to all of our out louders
Speaker 2: for listening to us. Tell us what you thought about
Speaker 2: today's show, whether it's about the four day work week,
Speaker 2: whether it's about whether or not you believe in angel numbers.
Speaker 2: Please tell me you don't. We would love to hear
Speaker 2: from you. We are going to be back in your
Speaker 2: ears tomorrow. And thank you, of course to our wonderful
Speaker 2: team helping us put this show together.
Speaker 4: And if you want something else to listen to, yesterday,
Speaker 4: we talked about attachment styles on our subscriber episode. Holly
Speaker 4: me Or and I revealed our very different attachment styles
Speaker 4: and it'll help you figure yours out as well. There
Speaker 4: is a link to that in our show notes.
Speaker 3: Goodbye.
Speaker 2: Shout out to any Mama Mia subscribers listening. If you
Speaker 2: love the show and you want to support us, subscribing
Speaker 2: to MoMA Mia is the very best way to do it.
Speaker 2: There's a link in the episode description