1 00:00:10,942 --> 00:00:14,022 Speaker 1: We are going to look back at ourselves walking to 2 00:00:14,102 --> 00:00:19,302 Speaker 1: work with a pitcher like Jack and drill off the train. Basically, 3 00:00:19,381 --> 00:00:22,101 Speaker 1: what we have is a backpack with a straw. We 4 00:00:22,222 --> 00:00:26,782 Speaker 1: have a hiking back where we can caramill constantly be hydrating. 5 00:00:27,342 --> 00:00:30,982 Speaker 1: Hydrating is fine, but I reckon out of control. It's 6 00:00:31,022 --> 00:00:31,902 Speaker 1: completely out of cans. 7 00:00:31,942 --> 00:00:33,462 Speaker 2: I made a wheely bag from my water bottle. 8 00:00:34,582 --> 00:00:37,302 Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to Mamma Mia out loud. It's what 9 00:00:37,382 --> 00:00:40,822 Speaker 3: women are actually talking about. On Wednesday, the fifteenth of January. 10 00:00:41,182 --> 00:00:42,902 Speaker 3: I am Holly Waynwright. 11 00:00:42,622 --> 00:00:44,822 Speaker 1: I'm Me Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens. 12 00:00:44,942 --> 00:00:49,102 Speaker 3: And on the show today, more masculine energy please. That's 13 00:00:49,142 --> 00:00:51,101 Speaker 3: what one of the world's most powerful men says is 14 00:00:51,102 --> 00:00:53,102 Speaker 3: missing from everywhere right now? 15 00:00:53,222 --> 00:00:53,862 Speaker 2: Is he right? 16 00:00:54,422 --> 00:00:56,342 Speaker 3: Also, are you and your mates in the catch up 17 00:00:56,422 --> 00:00:58,742 Speaker 3: track if you have an agenda running in your notes 18 00:00:58,742 --> 00:01:01,302 Speaker 3: app for your next dinner, then yes you are. And 19 00:01:02,142 --> 00:01:04,502 Speaker 3: are you trying to eat more protein while wearing your 20 00:01:04,502 --> 00:01:07,661 Speaker 3: weighted vest and obsessing about your sleep hygiene? Well you 21 00:01:07,702 --> 00:01:09,862 Speaker 3: are bang on the health trends for two I need 22 00:01:09,902 --> 00:01:13,581 Speaker 3: twenty five. But why anyway? 23 00:01:13,662 --> 00:01:17,422 Speaker 2: First, mere Friedman, young man, there's no need to feel down, 24 00:01:17,862 --> 00:01:21,382 Speaker 2: young man, pick yourself off the ground, in case you 25 00:01:21,422 --> 00:01:23,742 Speaker 2: missed it. Even when you're an American president, booking a 26 00:01:23,742 --> 00:01:27,582 Speaker 2: bound for your party is hard, especially when you're Donald Trump, 27 00:01:27,622 --> 00:01:30,662 Speaker 2: who's set to do inauguration two point zero next Tuesday 28 00:01:31,182 --> 00:01:34,902 Speaker 2: Australian time. So thank god for the Village People who 29 00:01:34,982 --> 00:01:38,902 Speaker 2: will be performing at the inauguration. They'll be performing Ymca 30 00:01:39,222 --> 00:01:40,422 Speaker 2: among some of their other. 31 00:01:40,342 --> 00:01:43,742 Speaker 1: Hits, because that's the song that he has kind of 32 00:01:43,982 --> 00:01:47,422 Speaker 1: popularized all over again with his dancing Yeah, which. 33 00:01:47,222 --> 00:01:51,222 Speaker 3: Makes absolutely no sense because it's not relevant, But that's 34 00:01:51,262 --> 00:01:53,182 Speaker 3: the kind of chaos that we expect and we're here 35 00:01:53,222 --> 00:01:54,662 Speaker 3: for in the Trump administration. 36 00:01:54,862 --> 00:01:57,302 Speaker 2: So one of the things that would happen at those 37 00:01:57,382 --> 00:02:00,262 Speaker 2: rallies was that they tried to just make them into parties, 38 00:02:00,302 --> 00:02:02,702 Speaker 2: because there's not a lot of places that older people 39 00:02:02,782 --> 00:02:05,222 Speaker 2: get to go and have a dance and listen to 40 00:02:05,302 --> 00:02:07,862 Speaker 2: fun tunes. So there was one rally that he did 41 00:02:07,902 --> 00:02:11,422 Speaker 2: where the autoc you didn't work or something happened, and 42 00:02:11,462 --> 00:02:15,222 Speaker 2: he just played music and danced. So even though interestingly 43 00:02:15,262 --> 00:02:19,582 Speaker 2: the Village People had some fights with the Trump campaign 44 00:02:19,742 --> 00:02:24,621 Speaker 2: about using their music unauthorized, they've now just kissed the 45 00:02:24,702 --> 00:02:28,422 Speaker 2: ring like everybody else, and they're doing the show for 46 00:02:28,462 --> 00:02:30,422 Speaker 2: a few reasons. So I just want to go back 47 00:02:30,422 --> 00:02:35,462 Speaker 2: to twenty seventeen because back then the first inauguration, everyone 48 00:02:35,582 --> 00:02:39,542 Speaker 2: said no. Elton, John Celendon, Garth Brooks, Kiss, Andrea Bicceelli, 49 00:02:39,582 --> 00:02:42,061 Speaker 2: even Charlotte Church. They all said no because they said 50 00:02:42,062 --> 00:02:45,102 Speaker 2: they didn't like Trump. So he ended up with I 51 00:02:45,181 --> 00:02:46,702 Speaker 2: got a list of the people he ended up with. 52 00:02:46,822 --> 00:02:48,622 Speaker 2: I hadn't heard of any of them. There was a 53 00:02:48,662 --> 00:02:50,182 Speaker 2: band called Three Doors Down. 54 00:02:50,302 --> 00:02:51,742 Speaker 1: Three Doors Down millennials know. 55 00:02:51,742 --> 00:02:52,382 Speaker 3: Them, okay. 56 00:02:52,702 --> 00:02:56,302 Speaker 2: Also the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and the Radio City Rockets. 57 00:02:56,342 --> 00:02:58,262 Speaker 2: There were a bunch of others that I'd never heard 58 00:02:58,302 --> 00:03:00,822 Speaker 2: of before. So it was a little light on star power, 59 00:03:01,102 --> 00:03:03,902 Speaker 2: he would say. The Village people have said that they 60 00:03:04,142 --> 00:03:07,102 Speaker 2: are doing it for all very lofty reasons. They've said 61 00:03:07,102 --> 00:03:09,862 Speaker 2: that they believe that music is to be perfre formed 62 00:03:09,862 --> 00:03:13,422 Speaker 2: without regard to politics. They said. They also expressed their 63 00:03:13,422 --> 00:03:17,181 Speaker 2: hope that their song Ymca, which features look, the Village 64 00:03:17,181 --> 00:03:21,302 Speaker 2: People traditionally have been a gay band. They've been, you know, 65 00:03:21,462 --> 00:03:26,022 Speaker 2: representing different people in the village. It's become problematic for 66 00:03:26,102 --> 00:03:28,382 Speaker 2: other reasons if I look at it, because it used 67 00:03:28,422 --> 00:03:29,702 Speaker 2: to have an American Indian. 68 00:03:29,782 --> 00:03:31,542 Speaker 3: They came out of the New York disco scene in 69 00:03:31,542 --> 00:03:34,422 Speaker 3: the seventies. That's the context of the Village people is 70 00:03:34,422 --> 00:03:36,222 Speaker 3: that that's where they came. 71 00:03:36,422 --> 00:03:39,422 Speaker 1: So they're obviously gay icons. But are they gay men? 72 00:03:39,862 --> 00:03:41,902 Speaker 2: They have been, they were. 73 00:03:42,022 --> 00:03:45,302 Speaker 3: I think they're also a changing cast of people, all right, 74 00:03:46,262 --> 00:03:48,942 Speaker 3: exactly like Manpower, Yeah, or the Chippendales. 75 00:03:49,142 --> 00:03:50,702 Speaker 1: I had no idea where you're talking about. 76 00:03:50,742 --> 00:03:53,302 Speaker 2: Okay, there's sort of groups of mousetripers that are a brand. 77 00:03:54,142 --> 00:03:58,942 Speaker 2: They're not, no, but they've been different characters over the years. Anyway, 78 00:03:59,862 --> 00:04:03,382 Speaker 2: they say they really love how much joy their song 79 00:04:03,782 --> 00:04:07,382 Speaker 2: brings Trump and also they have made a lot of 80 00:04:07,422 --> 00:04:11,902 Speaker 2: money because they're song is back on the leaderboard of 81 00:04:12,262 --> 00:04:12,782 Speaker 2: the charts. 82 00:04:12,942 --> 00:04:15,102 Speaker 1: Is it is it bad that I look at this 83 00:04:15,182 --> 00:04:17,421 Speaker 1: story and I just go like them. 84 00:04:17,582 --> 00:04:19,541 Speaker 3: Oh, for sure, let them, let them. 85 00:04:19,741 --> 00:04:23,861 Speaker 2: Trump would also, She'll be singing the Star Spangled banner. 86 00:04:23,902 --> 00:04:26,902 Speaker 3: For sure, let them. I just think it's quite funny, 87 00:04:27,022 --> 00:04:30,381 Speaker 3: particularly because remember when we performed YMCA and that Mama 88 00:04:30,421 --> 00:04:34,661 Speaker 3: Mire out loud shows that it was going to become 89 00:04:34,821 --> 00:04:38,141 Speaker 3: the anthem, a mega anthem of Donald Trump's two point 90 00:04:38,181 --> 00:04:40,661 Speaker 3: zero presidency. We didn't know, but maybe on some level 91 00:04:40,662 --> 00:04:40,981 Speaker 3: we did. 92 00:04:41,222 --> 00:04:44,821 Speaker 2: The Village People themselves commented on their Facebook page. They said, 93 00:04:44,821 --> 00:04:47,301 Speaker 2: we are announcing today that Village People have accepted an 94 00:04:47,342 --> 00:04:52,061 Speaker 2: invitation from President elect Trump's campaign to participate in inaugural activities, 95 00:04:52,101 --> 00:04:55,501 Speaker 2: including at least one event with President elect Trump. We 96 00:04:55,582 --> 00:04:57,702 Speaker 2: know this won't make some of you happy to hear. However, 97 00:04:57,741 --> 00:05:00,421 Speaker 2: we believe that music is to be performed without regard 98 00:05:00,501 --> 00:05:04,382 Speaker 2: to politics. They said. Our song YMCA is a global 99 00:05:04,421 --> 00:05:06,861 Speaker 2: anthem that hopefully helps bring the country together after a 100 00:05:06,902 --> 00:05:11,301 Speaker 2: tumultuous and divided campaign where our prefer candidate lost. Therefore, 101 00:05:11,421 --> 00:05:13,662 Speaker 2: we believe it's now time to bring the country together 102 00:05:13,941 --> 00:05:16,382 Speaker 2: with music, which is why Village People will perform at 103 00:05:16,421 --> 00:05:17,181 Speaker 2: various events. 104 00:05:17,582 --> 00:05:20,702 Speaker 1: That's interesting that Trump will still have them, even though 105 00:05:20,702 --> 00:05:22,701 Speaker 1: they've said it wasn't our proferred candidate. 106 00:05:23,142 --> 00:05:24,502 Speaker 2: He's got to take what he can get. 107 00:05:25,381 --> 00:05:28,261 Speaker 3: He's also quite good at forgiving as long as you 108 00:05:28,342 --> 00:05:30,421 Speaker 3: admit that you were wrong and he was right. I 109 00:05:30,421 --> 00:05:32,461 Speaker 3: think he likes that. So they were like, we're in. 110 00:05:32,582 --> 00:05:36,342 Speaker 3: We'd like come on him, I guess him and elon 111 00:05:36,462 --> 00:05:41,822 Speaker 3: up there giving it loads with the arm pumps. 112 00:05:44,861 --> 00:05:48,382 Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg, the founder and CEO of Meta thinks the 113 00:05:48,421 --> 00:05:53,261 Speaker 1: corporate world needs more masculine energy please. Speaking to Joe Rogan, 114 00:05:53,501 --> 00:05:54,621 Speaker 1: here's what he said. 115 00:05:54,941 --> 00:05:58,662 Speaker 4: The kind of masculine energy I think is good. Yeah, obviously, 116 00:05:58,981 --> 00:06:01,701 Speaker 4: you know, society has plenty of that, but I think 117 00:06:01,741 --> 00:06:04,902 Speaker 4: corporate culture was really like trying to get away from it. 118 00:06:05,582 --> 00:06:08,621 Speaker 4: And I do think that there's just something that it's like, 119 00:06:08,821 --> 00:06:11,662 Speaker 4: all these forms of energy are good, and I think 120 00:06:11,702 --> 00:06:15,501 Speaker 4: having a culture that like celebrates the aggression a bit 121 00:06:15,501 --> 00:06:19,582 Speaker 4: more has its own merits that are really positive. That 122 00:06:19,621 --> 00:06:22,301 Speaker 4: has been a kind of a positive experience for me, 123 00:06:22,702 --> 00:06:24,222 Speaker 4: just like having a thing that I can just like 124 00:06:24,421 --> 00:06:28,462 Speaker 4: do with my guy friends and life. Yeah, and it's 125 00:06:28,582 --> 00:06:30,421 Speaker 4: like we're just like beat each other a bit. 126 00:06:30,941 --> 00:06:31,342 Speaker 3: It's good. 127 00:06:31,741 --> 00:06:35,382 Speaker 5: It is good. It's good. I could see your point 128 00:06:35,381 --> 00:06:39,261 Speaker 5: though about Yeah, corporate culture, when do you think that happened? 129 00:06:39,702 --> 00:06:41,541 Speaker 5: Was that a slow shift because I think it used 130 00:06:41,541 --> 00:06:43,622 Speaker 5: to be very masculine and I used to be I 131 00:06:43,702 --> 00:06:45,782 Speaker 5: think it was kind of hyper aggressive at one point. 132 00:06:45,861 --> 00:06:47,662 Speaker 4: No, And look, and I think part of the the 133 00:06:47,702 --> 00:06:49,382 Speaker 4: intent on all these things I think is good. 134 00:06:49,621 --> 00:06:49,782 Speaker 1: Right. 135 00:06:49,821 --> 00:06:52,501 Speaker 4: It's I like, I do think that if you're a 136 00:06:52,541 --> 00:06:54,741 Speaker 4: woman going into a company it probably feels like it's 137 00:06:54,741 --> 00:06:57,422 Speaker 4: too masculine. It's like there isn't enough of the kind 138 00:06:57,421 --> 00:06:59,582 Speaker 4: of the energy that you may naturally have, and it 139 00:06:59,621 --> 00:07:01,222 Speaker 4: probably feels like there are all these things that are 140 00:07:01,262 --> 00:07:03,141 Speaker 4: set up that are biased against you. And that's not 141 00:07:03,181 --> 00:07:05,021 Speaker 4: good either, because you want you want women to be 142 00:07:05,022 --> 00:07:08,662 Speaker 4: able to succeed and like have companies that can unlock 143 00:07:08,662 --> 00:07:10,982 Speaker 4: all the value from having great people no matter what 144 00:07:11,022 --> 00:07:12,102 Speaker 4: their background or gender. 145 00:07:12,102 --> 00:07:12,262 Speaker 2: You know. 146 00:07:12,502 --> 00:07:14,862 Speaker 4: But I think these things can always go a little far. 147 00:07:15,182 --> 00:07:17,662 Speaker 4: And I think it's one thing to say we want 148 00:07:17,662 --> 00:07:19,662 Speaker 4: to be kind of like welcoming and make a good 149 00:07:19,742 --> 00:07:23,422 Speaker 4: environment for everyone, and I think it's another to basically 150 00:07:23,462 --> 00:07:27,021 Speaker 4: say that masculinity is bad. And I just think we 151 00:07:27,102 --> 00:07:30,381 Speaker 4: kind of swung culturally to that part of the spectrum 152 00:07:30,381 --> 00:07:33,461 Speaker 4: where you know, it's all like, okay, masculinity is toxic. 153 00:07:33,622 --> 00:07:35,622 Speaker 4: We have to like get rid of it completely. It's like, no, 154 00:07:35,742 --> 00:07:37,662 Speaker 4: like both of these things are good, right. It's like 155 00:07:37,702 --> 00:07:40,742 Speaker 4: you want like feminine energy, you want masculine energy. You're 156 00:07:40,782 --> 00:07:43,021 Speaker 4: going to have parts of society that have more of 157 00:07:43,062 --> 00:07:44,742 Speaker 4: one or the other. I think that that's all good, 158 00:07:44,782 --> 00:07:47,542 Speaker 4: But I do think the corporate culture sort of had 159 00:07:47,662 --> 00:07:51,342 Speaker 4: swung towards being this somewhat more neutered thing. 160 00:07:51,622 --> 00:07:54,702 Speaker 1: The conversation went for nearly three hours, and I went 161 00:07:54,742 --> 00:07:58,302 Speaker 1: and listened to the context. Full disclosure, I didn't listen 162 00:07:58,342 --> 00:07:59,662 Speaker 1: to this three hours, but I listened to what he 163 00:07:59,702 --> 00:08:03,182 Speaker 1: said on either side, and he did say that feminine 164 00:08:03,062 --> 00:08:06,701 Speaker 1: and masculine energies are both beneficial for the workplace and 165 00:08:06,742 --> 00:08:10,262 Speaker 1: that he wants women to succeed. Is Also it's important 166 00:08:10,262 --> 00:08:12,502 Speaker 1: to note that along with putting an end to fact checking, 167 00:08:12,662 --> 00:08:16,821 Speaker 1: which we talked about on Monday's episode, Zuckerberg has also 168 00:08:16,941 --> 00:08:21,782 Speaker 1: said his ending diversity, equity and inclusion programs and disbanding 169 00:08:21,982 --> 00:08:25,622 Speaker 1: Meta's DEI team. Because this is a quote, the term 170 00:08:25,662 --> 00:08:28,862 Speaker 1: has become charged, in part because it is understood by 171 00:08:28,862 --> 00:08:32,102 Speaker 1: some as a practice that suggests preferential treatment of some 172 00:08:32,222 --> 00:08:36,062 Speaker 1: groups over others. Yet if you read the fine print, 173 00:08:36,222 --> 00:08:39,781 Speaker 1: the company still claims to be prioritizing diversity, but more 174 00:08:39,822 --> 00:08:44,742 Speaker 1: so just rejecting the wording so they'll focus on eliminating bias. 175 00:08:45,142 --> 00:08:48,982 Speaker 1: But anyway, back to masculine energy, did we ever really 176 00:08:49,062 --> 00:08:53,062 Speaker 1: lose it? And does Mark Zuckerberg actually have a point? 177 00:08:53,342 --> 00:08:55,862 Speaker 2: Maya? I thought it was really important to listen to 178 00:08:55,902 --> 00:08:58,782 Speaker 2: the context of that, because the headlines that you'll read are, oh, 179 00:08:58,822 --> 00:09:01,622 Speaker 2: Mark Zuckerberg says we need to bring more masculine energy back, 180 00:09:01,662 --> 00:09:04,622 Speaker 2: and two out of three Meta employees are already men. 181 00:09:04,662 --> 00:09:07,462 Speaker 2: And how much masculine energy does he need? I think 182 00:09:07,502 --> 00:09:09,742 Speaker 2: a couple of things that stood out to me. One 183 00:09:09,822 --> 00:09:14,222 Speaker 2: is that he prefaced that by saying, interestingly, I grew 184 00:09:14,262 --> 00:09:16,742 Speaker 2: up with three sisters, no brothers. I have three daughters, 185 00:09:16,782 --> 00:09:21,062 Speaker 2: no sons. Now he didn't then say something positive about that, 186 00:09:21,822 --> 00:09:23,902 Speaker 2: but he then went on to say, so, I think 187 00:09:23,942 --> 00:09:26,182 Speaker 2: that gives you a really good indication of where he's 188 00:09:26,222 --> 00:09:30,142 Speaker 2: coming from. He then went on to say what we 189 00:09:30,182 --> 00:09:33,422 Speaker 2: heard about about masculine energy in the workplace. I think 190 00:09:33,462 --> 00:09:36,342 Speaker 2: this becomes a little bit of a raw shark test. 191 00:09:36,382 --> 00:09:38,182 Speaker 2: I never know how to say that. You know the 192 00:09:38,222 --> 00:09:40,942 Speaker 2: ink blot where you see what is in your own 193 00:09:41,022 --> 00:09:44,142 Speaker 2: mind and you project onto it how you feel about something. 194 00:09:44,382 --> 00:09:47,862 Speaker 2: The term masculine energy can mean really different things to 195 00:09:47,902 --> 00:09:51,142 Speaker 2: different people. For a lot of women, the hackles go 196 00:09:51,222 --> 00:09:53,542 Speaker 2: up because it's like, oh, that means sexual harassment. That 197 00:09:53,662 --> 00:09:55,422 Speaker 2: means people being assholes. 198 00:09:55,582 --> 00:09:58,022 Speaker 1: So that means people shouting, how do you define it? 199 00:09:58,062 --> 00:10:00,382 Speaker 3: And talking over you? And meetings and all those. 200 00:10:00,262 --> 00:10:03,222 Speaker 2: Things exactly, and I could define it like that, and 201 00:10:03,302 --> 00:10:05,782 Speaker 2: I think in some cases it is. That's why it's 202 00:10:05,822 --> 00:10:08,542 Speaker 2: so subjective. In other cases, when I'm looking at it 203 00:10:08,582 --> 00:10:12,262 Speaker 2: from a corporate point, you as a business owner, I 204 00:10:12,302 --> 00:10:17,782 Speaker 2: think what it speaks to is that qualities like competitiveness 205 00:10:18,462 --> 00:10:21,302 Speaker 2: aggression and I don't mean actual aggression, but I mean 206 00:10:21,462 --> 00:10:25,462 Speaker 2: like hunger. I don't mean it's like hard work versus 207 00:10:25,502 --> 00:10:28,262 Speaker 2: not hard work. I think the workplace really had to change, 208 00:10:28,302 --> 00:10:31,382 Speaker 2: and a lot of more what are called feminized cultural 209 00:10:31,502 --> 00:10:38,182 Speaker 2: values like kindness and sensitivity and consideration and you know, 210 00:10:38,222 --> 00:10:40,542 Speaker 2: things around work life balance and everything. I think we 211 00:10:40,622 --> 00:10:43,662 Speaker 2: really needed a correction there, and I'm really glad that 212 00:10:43,702 --> 00:10:46,982 Speaker 2: we had one. But I think that those things have 213 00:10:47,062 --> 00:10:52,502 Speaker 2: to coexist with competitiveness in business. And I'm very competitive. 214 00:10:52,502 --> 00:10:54,462 Speaker 2: But if you're talking in these generalizations, I. 215 00:10:54,462 --> 00:10:57,142 Speaker 1: Went really deep on what masculine energy even means, because 216 00:10:57,142 --> 00:10:59,262 Speaker 1: it's not just him using it. I have heard in 217 00:10:59,302 --> 00:11:02,862 Speaker 1: the last maybe two years, these terms of masculine and 218 00:11:02,862 --> 00:11:05,302 Speaker 1: feminine coming up way more at a time when I 219 00:11:05,302 --> 00:11:06,662 Speaker 1: thought we were sort of done with them. 220 00:11:06,582 --> 00:11:08,622 Speaker 2: And I think we all have both in us. 221 00:11:08,902 --> 00:11:11,062 Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, it's right. I don't think that you know, 222 00:11:11,302 --> 00:11:14,942 Speaker 1: mass skuline energy belongs to men necessarily, but I looked 223 00:11:14,942 --> 00:11:19,662 Speaker 1: it up and it's broadly defined as sort of ambition, 224 00:11:20,102 --> 00:11:23,622 Speaker 1: reason and logic, strength and independence and having a win 225 00:11:23,702 --> 00:11:27,862 Speaker 1: at all costs mentality. Right. And I think that the 226 00:11:27,902 --> 00:11:30,662 Speaker 1: clue to what Mark Zuckerberg meant was in what he said, 227 00:11:30,702 --> 00:11:34,622 Speaker 1: because he had the word aggressive in there, right. And 228 00:11:34,662 --> 00:11:39,702 Speaker 1: the reason my back went up is because that aggressiveness, 229 00:11:39,742 --> 00:11:45,062 Speaker 1: which I see, is very synonymous with capitalism. Look at 230 00:11:45,062 --> 00:11:47,702 Speaker 1: where it's got us. I don't mean look at where 231 00:11:47,782 --> 00:11:49,502 Speaker 1: men have got us. I mean look at where the 232 00:11:49,902 --> 00:11:53,982 Speaker 1: privileging of masculine energy has got us to climate catastrophe. 233 00:11:54,302 --> 00:11:57,822 Speaker 1: It's got us to incredible waste, it's got us international conflict. 234 00:11:58,262 --> 00:12:02,062 Speaker 1: It's got us to a wealth disparity that is not closing. 235 00:12:02,542 --> 00:12:05,742 Speaker 1: It's got us to a gender pay gap, like it's 236 00:12:05,782 --> 00:12:09,302 Speaker 1: got us to a point where Fortune five hundred companies, 237 00:12:09,582 --> 00:12:12,662 Speaker 1: they're all male leaders. I mean, to suggest that it 238 00:12:12,702 --> 00:12:15,422 Speaker 1: has become feminized is laughable. 239 00:12:15,422 --> 00:12:20,022 Speaker 3: At I agree with that because I think you're right Mia, 240 00:12:20,102 --> 00:12:22,342 Speaker 3: that you read this headline and you take what you 241 00:12:22,382 --> 00:12:24,662 Speaker 3: want from it. So the people like me who got 242 00:12:24,662 --> 00:12:27,261 Speaker 3: their backs up by it are taking He means there 243 00:12:27,302 --> 00:12:30,102 Speaker 3: are too many women whatever. But also the people who 244 00:12:30,142 --> 00:12:32,062 Speaker 3: agree with him will see what they want to see too, 245 00:12:32,142 --> 00:12:34,622 Speaker 3: and they won't listen to the context, and they do 246 00:12:34,822 --> 00:12:39,622 Speaker 3: feel like the world is being skewed towards women, and 247 00:12:39,662 --> 00:12:42,542 Speaker 3: it's not true. As you've just pointed out, Jesse, the 248 00:12:42,622 --> 00:12:46,422 Speaker 3: top ten most powerful business leaders in America are all men. 249 00:12:46,582 --> 00:12:49,462 Speaker 3: One woman on there, she's the GM of General Motors. 250 00:12:49,662 --> 00:12:53,622 Speaker 3: They are all men. They have all built these enormously successful, 251 00:12:54,422 --> 00:12:57,662 Speaker 3: possibly the most influential private companies that have ever existed. 252 00:12:57,662 --> 00:12:59,702 Speaker 3: When you think about the fact they control everything we read, 253 00:12:59,782 --> 00:13:02,782 Speaker 3: everything we watch, everything we talk about. They were all 254 00:13:02,822 --> 00:13:08,822 Speaker 3: built on these very masculine energy. Well exactly what I 255 00:13:08,862 --> 00:13:10,702 Speaker 3: mean is his point is that we need to get 256 00:13:10,702 --> 00:13:13,342 Speaker 3: back to it. It never went away. Everything was built 257 00:13:13,422 --> 00:13:16,542 Speaker 3: on masculine energy. So it's like it's a straw man, 258 00:13:16,622 --> 00:13:19,142 Speaker 3: it's a red herring, it's disagree, it's throwing meat to 259 00:13:19,142 --> 00:13:22,062 Speaker 3: a base. Because it's like saying we've lost so much 260 00:13:22,142 --> 00:13:24,822 Speaker 3: because women are taking over. It's like, no, we haven't, 261 00:13:24,982 --> 00:13:29,022 Speaker 3: because women haven't taken over. Interestingly, in Australia, if you 262 00:13:29,062 --> 00:13:32,382 Speaker 3: look at the most successful business people in Australia. About 263 00:13:32,382 --> 00:13:35,102 Speaker 3: four of the top six are women, right, And I 264 00:13:35,142 --> 00:13:37,502 Speaker 3: know it's not as simple as male female, But what 265 00:13:37,662 --> 00:13:39,742 Speaker 3: the people who are agreeing with Zuckerberg and love the 266 00:13:39,782 --> 00:13:42,462 Speaker 3: Joe Rogan Show and feel very strongly that the world 267 00:13:42,542 --> 00:13:44,742 Speaker 3: needs to be put right again, and Donald Trump is 268 00:13:44,782 --> 00:13:47,662 Speaker 3: one of them. They're talking about a very specific kind 269 00:13:47,662 --> 00:13:52,062 Speaker 3: of masculinity, which is physically aggressive, strong man. How many 270 00:13:52,062 --> 00:13:55,022 Speaker 3: times did Trump talk about that in his campaigning? Is 271 00:13:55,062 --> 00:13:57,622 Speaker 3: talking about who's going to stand up for you? It's 272 00:13:57,662 --> 00:14:01,662 Speaker 3: a very traditional, very masculine vibe. 273 00:14:01,862 --> 00:14:04,822 Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that. It chills me that vibe, 274 00:14:05,182 --> 00:14:10,222 Speaker 2: So I don't see it as about men and women specifically. 275 00:14:10,582 --> 00:14:12,822 Speaker 2: And I thought what was also really interesting, which is 276 00:14:12,862 --> 00:14:16,342 Speaker 2: worth pointing out as a conversation progressed. Joe Rogan really 277 00:14:16,342 --> 00:14:18,622 Speaker 2: pushed back and sounded a word of caution and said, 278 00:14:18,622 --> 00:14:21,262 Speaker 2: I think it's really important that we have both, which 279 00:14:21,302 --> 00:14:23,222 Speaker 2: is true and which of course I agree as well. 280 00:14:23,422 --> 00:14:25,102 Speaker 2: But the other thing that I think you can hear 281 00:14:25,182 --> 00:14:29,382 Speaker 2: in him about him personally, he's come from a family 282 00:14:29,462 --> 00:14:32,902 Speaker 2: of women, he lives in a house of women. I 283 00:14:32,942 --> 00:14:38,382 Speaker 2: think that we have really pathologized masculine energy and we're 284 00:14:38,502 --> 00:14:41,782 Speaker 2: likely to call it toxic when boy's rough house, when 285 00:14:41,822 --> 00:14:45,062 Speaker 2: boys want to be physical, when boys want to run around, 286 00:14:45,222 --> 00:14:48,862 Speaker 2: we pathologize that. We say they've got this condition, they've 287 00:14:48,862 --> 00:14:53,022 Speaker 2: got this problem, it's toxic. And this idea that everybody 288 00:14:53,062 --> 00:14:56,902 Speaker 2: should be more like women. I think that the hair 289 00:14:57,102 --> 00:14:59,542 Speaker 2: is truth to it, but I think we've made men 290 00:14:59,582 --> 00:15:03,582 Speaker 2: feel really ashamed of them some of their masculine traits. 291 00:15:03,742 --> 00:15:05,662 Speaker 1: The point that I agree with is that we have 292 00:15:05,742 --> 00:15:10,822 Speaker 1: conflated masculinity with toxic masculinity. Yes, in terms of having 293 00:15:10,822 --> 00:15:12,782 Speaker 1: a handbook of how to be a man in twenty 294 00:15:12,822 --> 00:15:14,902 Speaker 1: twenty five, I'm not sure that that exists yet. And 295 00:15:14,942 --> 00:15:18,902 Speaker 1: I think that Andrew Taitan his popularity is proof of 296 00:15:18,942 --> 00:15:23,022 Speaker 1: a wide open gap, which is that some men feel 297 00:15:23,022 --> 00:15:26,302 Speaker 1: as though they don't have a blueprint for masculinity. And 298 00:15:26,342 --> 00:15:28,662 Speaker 1: you've got a Taylor Swift concert and women go and 299 00:15:28,742 --> 00:15:33,502 Speaker 1: celebrate femininity in a really innocent way. But we see 300 00:15:33,502 --> 00:15:36,542 Speaker 1: something sinister about a gathering of a lot of men, 301 00:15:37,022 --> 00:15:42,142 Speaker 1: not for entirely ludicrous reasons, like for reasons such as 302 00:15:42,422 --> 00:15:46,262 Speaker 1: domestic violence and sexual harassment and everything we know about 303 00:15:46,542 --> 00:15:50,582 Speaker 1: what happens in some all male cultures, but that leads 304 00:15:51,302 --> 00:15:53,942 Speaker 1: men and boys in a difficult. 305 00:15:53,382 --> 00:15:57,822 Speaker 2: Spot, always feeling ashamed of some of their instincts, which 306 00:15:57,902 --> 00:15:58,422 Speaker 2: might be a. 307 00:15:58,422 --> 00:16:02,262 Speaker 3: Rough house or shout or run maybe, but one of 308 00:16:02,302 --> 00:16:04,022 Speaker 3: the things that I would hate to be lost in 309 00:16:04,062 --> 00:16:07,622 Speaker 3: this rush to re embrace musculinity, which even Zuckerberg says 310 00:16:07,862 --> 00:16:11,942 Speaker 3: he's found his masculine through his enthusiasm for mma. That 311 00:16:12,102 --> 00:16:16,302 Speaker 3: is a massively, quickly growing, enormous movement among young men. 312 00:16:16,622 --> 00:16:19,102 Speaker 3: And I'd push back a tiny bit on the notion 313 00:16:19,222 --> 00:16:21,862 Speaker 3: that women have Taylor Swift concerts to gather at. Who's 314 00:16:21,942 --> 00:16:23,382 Speaker 3: usually filling those stadiums? 315 00:16:23,462 --> 00:16:23,622 Speaker 5: Right? 316 00:16:23,902 --> 00:16:26,062 Speaker 3: Men have plenty of and I'm not suggesting for a 317 00:16:26,102 --> 00:16:28,102 Speaker 3: second the sports games are only full of men, but 318 00:16:28,222 --> 00:16:32,342 Speaker 3: traditionally they dominate the culture and public spaces. So let's 319 00:16:32,502 --> 00:16:34,742 Speaker 3: again not get too that. 320 00:16:34,742 --> 00:16:39,662 Speaker 1: Those public expressions like even a football grand final or whatever, 321 00:16:39,742 --> 00:16:43,062 Speaker 1: and very rightfully has now been cast, is can we 322 00:16:43,062 --> 00:16:45,222 Speaker 1: talk about what happens after the football grand final, which 323 00:16:45,302 --> 00:16:48,262 Speaker 1: is a lot of these men leave and domestic violencing 324 00:16:48,422 --> 00:16:49,142 Speaker 1: a little bit of that. 325 00:16:49,182 --> 00:16:50,942 Speaker 3: We talk about that for the first time because we 326 00:16:50,942 --> 00:16:53,302 Speaker 3: weren't talking about it for fifty years. Actually, what we 327 00:16:53,342 --> 00:16:55,782 Speaker 3: talk about that's all over the newspapers and all over 328 00:16:55,822 --> 00:16:57,982 Speaker 3: the television, all over everything is the game, right, So 329 00:16:58,062 --> 00:17:01,142 Speaker 3: I think there's male culture is not in danger. That 330 00:17:01,262 --> 00:17:05,181 Speaker 3: is my general point. But also what worries me is 331 00:17:05,262 --> 00:17:07,742 Speaker 3: just this sort of re embracing of these very traditional 332 00:17:07,821 --> 00:17:09,942 Speaker 3: roles because for many people, and our talk go about 333 00:17:09,982 --> 00:17:13,462 Speaker 3: myself diversifying, the idea of male and female energy has 334 00:17:13,462 --> 00:17:16,022 Speaker 3: been so freeing we were all locked in these cages. 335 00:17:16,061 --> 00:17:18,542 Speaker 3: You know, I am allowed to be the breadwinner. My 336 00:17:18,621 --> 00:17:21,621 Speaker 3: partner is allowed to express his nurturing side as lead parent. 337 00:17:21,702 --> 00:17:23,661 Speaker 3: My daughter can play the football, while my son, who 338 00:17:23,702 --> 00:17:25,982 Speaker 3: would much rather go and be in a play, can 339 00:17:26,061 --> 00:17:29,782 Speaker 3: be that. You know, this is the freedom that loosening 340 00:17:29,861 --> 00:17:32,502 Speaker 3: gender roles is given to us that in my mind 341 00:17:32,542 --> 00:17:35,501 Speaker 3: is entirely positive. And although I know this isn't what 342 00:17:35,621 --> 00:17:37,821 Speaker 3: Zuck was saying, and there's a lot of context to it, 343 00:17:38,061 --> 00:17:42,981 Speaker 3: but there feels like this big cultural pushback personified in 344 00:17:43,022 --> 00:17:46,341 Speaker 3: a way by things like this enthusiasm for MMA, for 345 00:17:46,381 --> 00:17:48,101 Speaker 3: the like I mean, the andrew Tates of the world 346 00:17:48,101 --> 00:17:51,621 Speaker 3: are literally saying wrestling and boxing should be mandatory in 347 00:17:51,702 --> 00:17:54,701 Speaker 3: all public schools, and we're putting one of the big 348 00:17:54,821 --> 00:17:58,381 Speaker 3: bosses of wrestling on the Facebook board, and we are 349 00:17:58,422 --> 00:18:01,262 Speaker 3: re embracing that side of masculinity, which isn't necessarily a 350 00:18:01,262 --> 00:18:04,502 Speaker 3: bad thing in itself, but it's just all signaling this 351 00:18:04,861 --> 00:18:09,461 Speaker 3: very binary way that we see the world, which is 352 00:18:09,661 --> 00:18:13,542 Speaker 3: like men fighting, good women nurturing. They just want everything 353 00:18:13,542 --> 00:18:15,221 Speaker 3: to be nice. What's that true? 354 00:18:15,302 --> 00:18:18,182 Speaker 1: What's not said in the undercurrent of all of this? 355 00:18:18,581 --> 00:18:21,542 Speaker 1: And the reason that feminism tried to unpick this in 356 00:18:21,581 --> 00:18:24,141 Speaker 1: the nineteen you know, sixties and seventies, and we've been 357 00:18:24,141 --> 00:18:28,262 Speaker 1: trying to do it since is because masculinity and femininity 358 00:18:28,782 --> 00:18:31,941 Speaker 1: do not culturally sit on an even playing field. It 359 00:18:32,022 --> 00:18:36,622 Speaker 1: is seen as a hierarchy, and masculinity is seen broadly 360 00:18:36,742 --> 00:18:40,621 Speaker 1: as higher than femininity. And the reason that is is 361 00:18:40,621 --> 00:18:43,622 Speaker 1: because capitalism rewards a lot of what we see as 362 00:18:43,621 --> 00:18:46,821 Speaker 1: masculine energies, which is why it's so ironic that you 363 00:18:46,861 --> 00:18:49,341 Speaker 1: would say the corporate world needs more of it, Like 364 00:18:50,182 --> 00:18:53,782 Speaker 1: I just can't stop thinking about the state of how 365 00:18:53,821 --> 00:19:00,262 Speaker 1: aggressive and how competitive the market is, and how women 366 00:19:00,341 --> 00:19:03,462 Speaker 1: you speak to who work in the corporate world would 367 00:19:03,462 --> 00:19:05,861 Speaker 1: tell you that there is not too much feminine energy there. 368 00:19:05,942 --> 00:19:07,821 Speaker 1: Like whether or not it's run by men is one thing, 369 00:19:08,141 --> 00:19:11,942 Speaker 1: but the actual incives that drive it. I'm not led 370 00:19:11,982 --> 00:19:13,502 Speaker 1: by any sort of feminine energies. 371 00:19:14,542 --> 00:19:16,941 Speaker 2: No, I think we need to be careful about making 372 00:19:16,982 --> 00:19:20,141 Speaker 2: this too broad and saying, you know, we're talking about 373 00:19:20,141 --> 00:19:24,222 Speaker 2: everything from schools to the world. He's very specifically or 374 00:19:24,262 --> 00:19:29,022 Speaker 2: he was speaking about the workplace, and there is no question. 375 00:19:28,821 --> 00:19:32,341 Speaker 1: Not the workplace, the corporate corporate, which is a distinct environ. 376 00:19:32,422 --> 00:19:35,542 Speaker 2: So in the corporate workplace, there has been, and we've 377 00:19:35,542 --> 00:19:37,662 Speaker 2: spoken about it a lot on the show, there has 378 00:19:37,742 --> 00:19:44,862 Speaker 2: been perhaps overdue, understandable, very positive in many ways, change 379 00:19:45,101 --> 00:19:47,941 Speaker 2: in the way the corporate workplace went. And I tell you, 380 00:19:47,982 --> 00:19:51,262 Speaker 2: I was rewatching How's That the drama about Kerry Packer 381 00:19:51,262 --> 00:19:53,461 Speaker 2: and the rise of cricket in the seventies and eighties, 382 00:19:53,462 --> 00:19:56,461 Speaker 2: and it was a reminder and I worked in that building. 383 00:19:56,502 --> 00:19:58,581 Speaker 2: I worked for Kerry Packer, and I saw that stuff 384 00:19:58,621 --> 00:20:02,902 Speaker 2: go on, and he was shouting and throwing plates and 385 00:20:02,942 --> 00:20:06,421 Speaker 2: calling people names, and it was so like it was 386 00:20:06,422 --> 00:20:08,701 Speaker 2: almost funny to what It was funny to watch it 387 00:20:08,782 --> 00:20:13,661 Speaker 2: now because now HR and every workplace in the oh 388 00:20:13,702 --> 00:20:18,341 Speaker 2: and s is actually about does everybody feel psychologically safe? 389 00:20:18,381 --> 00:20:21,741 Speaker 2: And psychological safety and how important that is. So I 390 00:20:21,782 --> 00:20:26,022 Speaker 2: don't think you could argue that corporate culture has quite 391 00:20:26,101 --> 00:20:31,262 Speaker 2: rightly moved from people smoking, men grabbing women's asses, not 392 00:20:31,381 --> 00:20:34,621 Speaker 2: that that's masculine energy, but the toxic parts of that, 393 00:20:35,341 --> 00:20:38,421 Speaker 2: and it has really, really, really changed. 394 00:20:38,542 --> 00:20:40,462 Speaker 1: It has changed, but I think the idea that some 395 00:20:40,542 --> 00:20:42,902 Speaker 1: of the toxic behavior isn't there. Like when you hear 396 00:20:42,942 --> 00:20:45,182 Speaker 1: about people who work with Jeff Bezos or Ellen Mask, 397 00:20:45,222 --> 00:20:47,581 Speaker 1: which we've talked about, Oh they're being yelled at. Those 398 00:20:47,621 --> 00:20:49,022 Speaker 1: men have not stopped yelling. 399 00:20:49,542 --> 00:20:52,141 Speaker 3: Look, it's maa who really likes leaderboards around here. But 400 00:20:52,222 --> 00:20:54,782 Speaker 3: I have an unofficial award for out louder of the week. 401 00:20:55,222 --> 00:20:59,022 Speaker 3: I'm calling it early Is. Her name is Emma Right, 402 00:20:59,182 --> 00:21:02,422 Speaker 3: and in the Facebook group after Monday's show, she wrote 403 00:21:02,462 --> 00:21:07,742 Speaker 3: a high coup called I like Megan Markle a high 404 00:21:07,782 --> 00:21:11,981 Speaker 3: coup and it goes like they're I like Megan, seems 405 00:21:12,061 --> 00:21:16,141 Speaker 3: like a nice human, likes dogs, dogs like her. Dogs 406 00:21:16,141 --> 00:21:19,702 Speaker 3: aren't stupid. The end, I love it. I love it. 407 00:21:20,182 --> 00:21:22,262 Speaker 3: We need to put the disclaimer in before you get 408 00:21:22,302 --> 00:21:25,381 Speaker 3: your phone out. We know that's not strictly a haikull. 409 00:21:25,542 --> 00:21:26,981 Speaker 2: Some of us knew. I thought it was one day. 410 00:21:27,022 --> 00:21:28,581 Speaker 3: I didn't mean too because I struggle with the maths 411 00:21:28,621 --> 00:21:31,181 Speaker 3: of haiku. There's too much maths involved. But yeah, I 412 00:21:31,422 --> 00:21:33,101 Speaker 3: just what's haiku? 413 00:21:33,661 --> 00:21:36,861 Speaker 1: Haiku is technically a Japanese poem of seventeen syllables in 414 00:21:36,901 --> 00:21:39,701 Speaker 1: three lines of five, seven and five, traditionally evoking images 415 00:21:39,742 --> 00:21:42,782 Speaker 1: of the natural world, so it doesn't quite fish but 416 00:21:43,022 --> 00:21:46,781 Speaker 1: dogs and some of us too much maths. Haikus are 417 00:21:46,821 --> 00:21:49,861 Speaker 1: a vibe. Haikus are about whether it gives a vibe the 418 00:21:49,942 --> 00:21:52,381 Speaker 1: gist of a haiku. And you could have fooled me. 419 00:21:52,742 --> 00:21:54,981 Speaker 1: I really like it. I think it's straight to the point, 420 00:21:55,182 --> 00:21:58,262 Speaker 1: and I actually really like the underlying point she's making. 421 00:21:58,462 --> 00:22:01,502 Speaker 2: You told me that your mother jesse Ann Stevens, friend 422 00:22:01,502 --> 00:22:04,302 Speaker 2: of the Pod. Her social media bio is written in 423 00:22:04,341 --> 00:22:05,022 Speaker 2: haiku form. 424 00:22:05,141 --> 00:22:08,502 Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, so English teacher of one hundred and three years. 425 00:22:08,901 --> 00:22:12,222 Speaker 1: It is a high and it's like I have husband 426 00:22:12,821 --> 00:22:18,022 Speaker 1: and four children and a dog ted he is fat 427 00:22:18,182 --> 00:22:21,182 Speaker 1: or something like. It's just this weird poem. She has 428 00:22:21,222 --> 00:22:22,422 Speaker 1: no recollection of writing. 429 00:22:22,422 --> 00:22:24,302 Speaker 2: It doesn't sound strictly like. 430 00:22:24,262 --> 00:22:27,022 Speaker 1: I've got hiku again, not really about the natural world. 431 00:22:27,182 --> 00:22:29,302 Speaker 2: Dogs are featuring a lot in nikus. 432 00:22:29,542 --> 00:22:32,502 Speaker 3: If anyone wants to weigh in with Haikus, inspired by 433 00:22:32,502 --> 00:22:34,141 Speaker 3: today's show very hare for It. 434 00:22:34,462 --> 00:22:36,421 Speaker 2: In a moment after the break. Are you stuck in 435 00:22:36,462 --> 00:22:38,582 Speaker 2: the catch up trap? And what can you do about it? 436 00:22:38,621 --> 00:22:44,462 Speaker 2: We are too, Let's fix it. The thing about December 437 00:22:44,462 --> 00:22:46,702 Speaker 2: and January is that you can often find yourself seeing 438 00:22:46,702 --> 00:22:48,621 Speaker 2: people you haven't seen in a while. I know that 439 00:22:48,702 --> 00:22:52,542 Speaker 2: happened to me over Christmas, and you often find yourself saying, 440 00:22:52,621 --> 00:22:54,661 Speaker 2: let's catch up to those people. And if that's you, 441 00:22:55,262 --> 00:22:58,061 Speaker 2: I have a warning for you. Beware of the catch 442 00:22:58,101 --> 00:23:01,621 Speaker 2: up trap. There's been a bit of talk about this recently, 443 00:23:01,702 --> 00:23:04,462 Speaker 2: including a column by Tanya Hennessy for Body and Soul 444 00:23:04,542 --> 00:23:07,861 Speaker 2: last weekend. And here's what you need to know about 445 00:23:07,861 --> 00:23:11,222 Speaker 2: the catch up trap and what it is. Essentially, it's 446 00:23:11,262 --> 00:23:13,941 Speaker 2: when two people live their lives pretty separately and they 447 00:23:14,022 --> 00:23:17,861 Speaker 2: catch up over dinner or maybe lunch, breakfast, a walk, 448 00:23:17,942 --> 00:23:20,221 Speaker 2: or maybe they have drinks, and they don't do this 449 00:23:20,381 --> 00:23:24,501 Speaker 2: very often, and so what their time together involves is 450 00:23:25,061 --> 00:23:27,462 Speaker 2: telling each other about what's going on in their lives, 451 00:23:27,742 --> 00:23:31,502 Speaker 2: but never creating new memories or experiences together. And this 452 00:23:31,861 --> 00:23:36,141 Speaker 2: is the trap, part of the catch up trap. So 453 00:23:36,341 --> 00:23:38,901 Speaker 2: I thought about this a lot because the part of 454 00:23:39,022 --> 00:23:41,462 Speaker 2: being younger that I really miss as well as the 455 00:23:41,502 --> 00:23:45,982 Speaker 2: collagen is getting ready and just hanging out with your friends. 456 00:23:46,341 --> 00:23:50,022 Speaker 2: Like when I see girlfriends now it's for a specific 457 00:23:50,022 --> 00:23:52,982 Speaker 2: amount of time, usually over a meal or a cup 458 00:23:53,022 --> 00:23:57,061 Speaker 2: of tea, and I find myself doing things like, you know, 459 00:23:57,101 --> 00:23:59,341 Speaker 2: I've got a group of girlfriends. I guess we catch 460 00:23:59,381 --> 00:24:03,621 Speaker 2: up constantly over group chat, but when we meet, I'll 461 00:24:03,621 --> 00:24:05,661 Speaker 2: often be like, can we just do a quick around 462 00:24:05,702 --> 00:24:08,702 Speaker 2: the grounds to find out how everyone's children are, what's 463 00:24:08,702 --> 00:24:11,821 Speaker 2: happening in everyone's lives. And it's true. I always thought 464 00:24:11,901 --> 00:24:14,581 Speaker 2: this was a great thing, but now I've realized. So 465 00:24:14,702 --> 00:24:17,061 Speaker 2: everybody does their little monologue and it ends up being 466 00:24:17,101 --> 00:24:20,101 Speaker 2: like a series of spoken social media up there. 467 00:24:20,182 --> 00:24:23,181 Speaker 1: Yes, Tanya Hannessee calls it friendship admin, which I thought 468 00:24:23,222 --> 00:24:25,462 Speaker 1: was a really accurate term. I have a friend who 469 00:24:25,542 --> 00:24:27,942 Speaker 1: saw this article and just thought it was brilliant, and 470 00:24:28,022 --> 00:24:30,581 Speaker 1: so she put it in a group chat. There's about 471 00:24:30,581 --> 00:24:32,542 Speaker 1: twenty of us in there, but someone had just gone 472 00:24:32,581 --> 00:24:35,341 Speaker 1: to an android, which meant that everyone was sent that 473 00:24:35,381 --> 00:24:38,622 Speaker 1: message individually, and then she was in undated for two 474 00:24:38,702 --> 00:24:41,701 Speaker 1: or three days with intense messages from friends being like, 475 00:24:41,901 --> 00:24:44,181 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, we are called in the catchup truck. We 476 00:24:44,222 --> 00:24:48,022 Speaker 1: should do something lovely together, like have a hiking weekend, 477 00:24:48,101 --> 00:24:50,061 Speaker 1: and she was like, no, no fucking hiking weekend with 478 00:24:50,222 --> 00:24:50,782 Speaker 1: twenty people. 479 00:24:51,982 --> 00:24:52,942 Speaker 2: It's not an intervention. 480 00:24:53,742 --> 00:24:56,981 Speaker 1: But I totally agree with this. I found over the 481 00:24:56,982 --> 00:24:59,502 Speaker 1: holidays I did do a hike with my mum and 482 00:24:59,581 --> 00:25:02,662 Speaker 1: sister and like, there's no pressure to do anything. It's 483 00:25:02,702 --> 00:25:06,502 Speaker 1: just like walking alongside each other or talking about what 484 00:25:06,742 --> 00:25:10,141 Speaker 1: you can see. Like we've joked before about having an agenda, 485 00:25:10,222 --> 00:25:12,581 Speaker 1: I often have this with friends where I usually call 486 00:25:12,621 --> 00:25:15,061 Speaker 1: it theagender yes, where you just tick off at a 487 00:25:15,101 --> 00:25:17,861 Speaker 1: bunch of things. I mean, firstly, it can make it 488 00:25:17,901 --> 00:25:21,382 Speaker 1: feel a bit like a work meeting. And secondly it 489 00:25:21,422 --> 00:25:25,621 Speaker 1: reminded me maybe of why I can find those situations 490 00:25:26,141 --> 00:25:29,462 Speaker 1: not boring. But I'm telling the same stories all the time, 491 00:25:29,901 --> 00:25:31,941 Speaker 1: So I hate this. I'm so bored of my life. 492 00:25:32,022 --> 00:25:34,502 Speaker 1: So it's like I have three stories, how's the health 493 00:25:34,502 --> 00:25:36,941 Speaker 1: of BA, How's this, How's that? And you just tell 494 00:25:37,262 --> 00:25:41,101 Speaker 1: exactly the same stories over and over again, and there's 495 00:25:41,141 --> 00:25:46,141 Speaker 1: no just like the natural hanging out vibe. 496 00:25:46,621 --> 00:25:48,502 Speaker 3: Have you noticed this, Holly one hundred percent? And I 497 00:25:48,581 --> 00:25:51,901 Speaker 3: also think it means they're just less satisfying conversations because 498 00:25:51,942 --> 00:25:54,461 Speaker 3: I don't really like I hate it when people say, so, 499 00:25:54,502 --> 00:25:56,502 Speaker 3: what's been going on? You know what I mean? I'm like, 500 00:25:57,502 --> 00:25:59,502 Speaker 3: whereas I like to talk about a thing. I mean, 501 00:25:59,542 --> 00:26:01,782 Speaker 3: that's why we make this show, because we like talking 502 00:26:01,861 --> 00:26:04,061 Speaker 3: about a thing. I like to go deep. I like 503 00:26:04,141 --> 00:26:05,861 Speaker 3: depth rather than breadth. And when I say deep, I 504 00:26:05,861 --> 00:26:07,821 Speaker 3: don't mean like tell me about your childhood. I mean 505 00:26:07,942 --> 00:26:10,661 Speaker 3: like talk about some thing for a long time. But 506 00:26:10,702 --> 00:26:12,181 Speaker 3: when we do our around the grounds and we do 507 00:26:12,222 --> 00:26:14,982 Speaker 3: this sometimes obviously it's like what's going on with your kids? 508 00:26:14,982 --> 00:26:17,381 Speaker 3: Sometimes there's something really big you need to unpack, and 509 00:26:17,422 --> 00:26:19,382 Speaker 3: sometimes like, oh, they're fine, Like I don't really want 510 00:26:19,422 --> 00:26:21,981 Speaker 3: to talk, you know what I mean? So I entirely 511 00:26:22,022 --> 00:26:25,061 Speaker 3: get it. The only thing I think because I don't 512 00:26:25,101 --> 00:26:28,342 Speaker 3: like structured catch ups like that. But the only thing 513 00:26:28,341 --> 00:26:30,542 Speaker 3: that changed my mind a little bit is because I 514 00:26:30,581 --> 00:26:32,661 Speaker 3: think it depends on your friendship groups, right, Like this 515 00:26:32,702 --> 00:26:34,622 Speaker 3: is why going away with friends is good, because there's 516 00:26:34,661 --> 00:26:37,581 Speaker 3: lots of hanging around time where you just talk about whatever. 517 00:26:37,661 --> 00:26:39,101 Speaker 2: That's why we like being on tour together. 518 00:26:39,182 --> 00:26:41,141 Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, there's lots of hanging around time where you 519 00:26:41,222 --> 00:26:43,262 Speaker 3: just talk about whatever, and things happen, and then they 520 00:26:43,262 --> 00:26:45,661 Speaker 3: become stories in themselves, and then there's that time that 521 00:26:45,661 --> 00:26:47,981 Speaker 3: that thing and blah, and that's always fun. But you 522 00:26:48,061 --> 00:26:49,542 Speaker 3: know how, you've got those people in your life who 523 00:26:49,542 --> 00:26:51,701 Speaker 3: you might only see twice a year or something. So 524 00:26:51,782 --> 00:26:53,702 Speaker 3: I've got a group of friends who I probably see 525 00:26:53,742 --> 00:26:56,101 Speaker 3: twice a year at most. We'll go out for dinner. 526 00:26:56,381 --> 00:26:57,741 Speaker 3: And at the end of last year, we went out 527 00:26:57,742 --> 00:26:59,822 Speaker 3: for one of our dinners and one of my friends, 528 00:26:59,821 --> 00:27:02,941 Speaker 3: inspired by this very show, wanted to do around the 529 00:27:02,982 --> 00:27:05,061 Speaker 3: table best and Worst, and I was like, oh, but 530 00:27:05,141 --> 00:27:06,621 Speaker 3: actually it was fucking great. 531 00:27:06,381 --> 00:27:07,462 Speaker 2: Because it cuts through. 532 00:27:07,661 --> 00:27:10,101 Speaker 3: It cuts through because it isn't like tell everything that's 533 00:27:10,101 --> 00:27:11,702 Speaker 3: happened to you this year, so you know, I lost 534 00:27:11,702 --> 00:27:13,662 Speaker 3: my job, got another job, but you know, blah blah blah. 535 00:27:13,661 --> 00:27:16,542 Speaker 3: It was more like it made you think what was 536 00:27:16,581 --> 00:27:18,222 Speaker 3: the best thing, what was the worst thing? At white 537 00:27:18,262 --> 00:27:21,742 Speaker 3: And then that led to really interesting, deep conversations Rather 538 00:27:21,861 --> 00:27:24,181 Speaker 3: than like two of those people that had a baby 539 00:27:24,262 --> 00:27:28,262 Speaker 3: in the last year, they were like, obviously that's just news, 540 00:27:28,302 --> 00:27:30,341 Speaker 3: and I hadn't seen them all met their babies. But 541 00:27:30,422 --> 00:27:32,581 Speaker 3: the best and worst related to the babies led to 542 00:27:32,621 --> 00:27:36,182 Speaker 3: really interesting conversations about here, Do you know what I mean? Yeah? 543 00:27:36,262 --> 00:27:38,821 Speaker 1: I wonder if the catch up trap is also about 544 00:27:38,861 --> 00:27:42,742 Speaker 1: wanting our social life to be incredibly efficient. So we 545 00:27:42,782 --> 00:27:44,701 Speaker 1: want to go and think, how can I make this 546 00:27:44,742 --> 00:27:47,782 Speaker 1: a very productive social interaction where I do three months 547 00:27:47,861 --> 00:27:50,022 Speaker 1: worth of catch up in an hour. 548 00:27:49,901 --> 00:27:50,381 Speaker 3: And a half. 549 00:27:50,982 --> 00:27:54,022 Speaker 1: And that's why we don't go and do things like 550 00:27:54,861 --> 00:27:57,341 Speaker 1: often go to the movies or go and see a show. 551 00:27:58,061 --> 00:28:00,901 Speaker 1: Or my friend who sent this article then organized an 552 00:28:01,022 --> 00:28:03,382 Speaker 1: escape room. What you can't do in an escape room 553 00:28:03,422 --> 00:28:06,501 Speaker 1: is catch up, and you're actually doing an activity always 554 00:28:06,742 --> 00:28:10,741 Speaker 1: creating a new memory or experience that is fun in 555 00:28:10,782 --> 00:28:11,302 Speaker 1: the moment. 556 00:28:11,422 --> 00:28:11,982 Speaker 3: Interesting. 557 00:28:12,262 --> 00:28:15,181 Speaker 2: Yes, So I also find that there's a lot of 558 00:28:15,222 --> 00:28:18,381 Speaker 2: pressure to be brief because it's like, well, I've got 559 00:28:18,422 --> 00:28:21,101 Speaker 2: to summarize, but I know we've got to get to 560 00:28:21,141 --> 00:28:24,141 Speaker 2: everybody else, and the main course has already arrived and 561 00:28:24,182 --> 00:28:27,142 Speaker 2: people are halfway through it, and we better speed up. 562 00:28:27,742 --> 00:28:31,381 Speaker 2: It's also that misnomer of people think that quality time 563 00:28:31,742 --> 00:28:33,701 Speaker 2: is the best thing, but there's a lot to be 564 00:28:33,782 --> 00:28:37,782 Speaker 2: said from relationships being built in quantity time, which is 565 00:28:37,821 --> 00:28:39,822 Speaker 2: more than hanging out. I also wonder if the catch 566 00:28:39,902 --> 00:28:42,302 Speaker 2: up traps become more of an issue now because there 567 00:28:42,382 --> 00:28:44,902 Speaker 2: was a time a few years ago at Christmas where 568 00:28:44,902 --> 00:28:46,742 Speaker 2: you would see people that you hadn't seen for a while, 569 00:28:46,742 --> 00:28:50,382 Speaker 2: like family or whatever. Everyone would say to each other, Oh, 570 00:28:50,462 --> 00:28:52,822 Speaker 2: I'd ask you what's happening in your life? But I 571 00:28:52,862 --> 00:28:54,862 Speaker 2: already know because I follow you on Facebook where I 572 00:28:54,942 --> 00:28:57,822 Speaker 2: follow you on Instagram. Now, I think, firstly because of 573 00:28:57,862 --> 00:29:01,142 Speaker 2: the algorithm that doesn't show us anybody that we follow, 574 00:29:01,502 --> 00:29:03,702 Speaker 2: and secondly because a lot of people are not posting 575 00:29:03,742 --> 00:29:07,142 Speaker 2: that kind of stuff anymore. We've all called back, so 576 00:29:07,222 --> 00:29:09,102 Speaker 2: there is a lot more that we don't know about 577 00:29:09,102 --> 00:29:11,421 Speaker 2: each other's lives. So there is that sense of we 578 00:29:11,462 --> 00:29:13,662 Speaker 2: didn't need to catch up before because we literally knew it, 579 00:29:14,022 --> 00:29:15,182 Speaker 2: but now we kind of do. 580 00:29:15,382 --> 00:29:17,702 Speaker 3: I think that's really true. I thought about that too, 581 00:29:17,702 --> 00:29:19,661 Speaker 3: as it used to be like I know all the facts, 582 00:29:19,822 --> 00:29:22,822 Speaker 3: tell me the feelings, whereas now I'm like, shit, I 583 00:29:22,862 --> 00:29:24,902 Speaker 3: don't actually know whether or not you've changed your job, 584 00:29:24,942 --> 00:29:26,582 Speaker 3: but I don't actually know whether or not. So it's like, 585 00:29:26,742 --> 00:29:30,182 Speaker 3: can we go back to life updates? Please? Circulating quick 586 00:29:30,222 --> 00:29:33,982 Speaker 3: life updates before the meeting, pre reading, the reading, prereading, 587 00:29:34,342 --> 00:29:36,741 Speaker 3: pre reading, so that in the meaning we can go. 588 00:29:36,862 --> 00:29:42,622 Speaker 1: Deep feedback is a gift from both the perspective of 589 00:29:42,702 --> 00:29:47,022 Speaker 1: a giver as well as the recipient. I have some feedback, 590 00:29:47,222 --> 00:29:49,382 Speaker 1: it's a gift as me or says, Look, this is 591 00:29:49,462 --> 00:29:51,701 Speaker 1: something that's making me puffer fish. We used to talk 592 00:29:51,702 --> 00:29:53,862 Speaker 1: about puffer fishing a lot. It's a Hannah Gadsby term. 593 00:29:54,102 --> 00:29:56,142 Speaker 1: Is when something really pisses you off and you turn 594 00:29:56,182 --> 00:29:56,902 Speaker 1: into a puff fish. 595 00:29:57,062 --> 00:29:59,582 Speaker 2: Do you know what puffer fishing is? Usually when you 596 00:29:59,742 --> 00:30:02,222 Speaker 2: need to give feedback. It's the thing that happens just 597 00:30:02,382 --> 00:30:05,701 Speaker 2: before yes, you give feedback, blows out. Yeah, Hannah Gadsby. 598 00:30:05,782 --> 00:30:07,421 Speaker 2: Thing is like it's just a normal fish and then 599 00:30:07,502 --> 00:30:10,542 Speaker 2: something happens and it's suddenly puffed up. Yeah, And that's 600 00:30:10,622 --> 00:30:13,422 Speaker 2: usually how I feel when I'm needing a feedback form. 601 00:30:13,702 --> 00:30:17,622 Speaker 1: Okay, So I had my puffer fish moment. This actually 602 00:30:17,702 --> 00:30:20,382 Speaker 1: happened last year, but I've been reminded of it recently 603 00:30:20,702 --> 00:30:23,102 Speaker 1: and I posted about it on Instagram. I was in 604 00:30:23,302 --> 00:30:27,582 Speaker 1: a shop and I saw a water bottle that was 605 00:30:28,142 --> 00:30:29,782 Speaker 1: three point seven leaders. 606 00:30:29,942 --> 00:30:32,502 Speaker 2: What do you mean was this to go camping with? 607 00:30:32,902 --> 00:30:32,941 Speaker 4: No? 608 00:30:33,182 --> 00:30:34,862 Speaker 1: It was just like, I don't know school. 609 00:30:34,902 --> 00:30:36,062 Speaker 2: Was it a camping shot? 610 00:30:36,142 --> 00:30:39,062 Speaker 3: That tank stuck behind the person filling that up at 611 00:30:39,102 --> 00:30:40,822 Speaker 3: the tap and yes in the kitchen the other it's. 612 00:30:40,742 --> 00:30:43,222 Speaker 1: Why you're probably late to a record. But I looked 613 00:30:43,222 --> 00:30:45,822 Speaker 1: at this water bottle and I said, Holly's word of 614 00:30:45,862 --> 00:30:46,102 Speaker 1: the year. 615 00:30:46,142 --> 00:30:46,742 Speaker 3: I said, nap. 616 00:30:47,342 --> 00:30:50,222 Speaker 1: I said, we've reached pete water bottle. That's too much, 617 00:30:50,342 --> 00:30:53,902 Speaker 1: that's unnecessary, and we're getting silly. And Holly and I 618 00:30:54,062 --> 00:30:55,982 Speaker 1: did an in the and Outs episode of twenty twenty 619 00:30:56,062 --> 00:30:58,702 Speaker 1: five and I said, we are going to look back 620 00:30:59,102 --> 00:31:03,022 Speaker 1: at ourselves walking to work with a picture like Jack 621 00:31:03,102 --> 00:31:07,102 Speaker 1: and Jill off the train with Basically basically what we 622 00:31:07,222 --> 00:31:09,982 Speaker 1: have is a backpack with a straw. We have a 623 00:31:10,102 --> 00:31:16,022 Speaker 1: hiking back where Iram will constantly be hydrating. Hydrating is fine, 624 00:31:16,742 --> 00:31:17,982 Speaker 1: but I reckon. 625 00:31:17,822 --> 00:31:18,302 Speaker 2: Out of control. 626 00:31:18,661 --> 00:31:20,142 Speaker 1: It's completely out of I made. 627 00:31:19,982 --> 00:31:21,222 Speaker 2: A wheely bag for my water bottle. 628 00:31:21,302 --> 00:31:22,902 Speaker 3: I want to know what you think about this, because me, 629 00:31:22,982 --> 00:31:25,542 Speaker 3: I loved an accessory. Yesterday in a cafe, I saw 630 00:31:25,582 --> 00:31:28,382 Speaker 3: a very stylish woman and she had quite a big 631 00:31:28,422 --> 00:31:31,701 Speaker 3: water bottle that had its own like leather holder and straps. 632 00:31:31,782 --> 00:31:33,941 Speaker 3: So you know, like the army, you know, how like 633 00:31:34,062 --> 00:31:36,822 Speaker 3: soldiers you used to have like a water bottle, and 634 00:31:37,422 --> 00:31:40,502 Speaker 3: it obviously looked very cool. But I was like that's 635 00:31:40,542 --> 00:31:40,862 Speaker 3: a lot. 636 00:31:41,902 --> 00:31:43,862 Speaker 2: It's a bag for your water bottle, and then you've 637 00:31:43,902 --> 00:31:46,742 Speaker 2: got to buy little charms for that bag that holds 638 00:31:46,782 --> 00:31:47,181 Speaker 2: the water. 639 00:31:47,222 --> 00:31:48,662 Speaker 1: And then you've got to buy a new holder because 640 00:31:48,702 --> 00:31:50,742 Speaker 1: guess where a water bottle doesn't fit in your car, 641 00:31:51,302 --> 00:31:54,382 Speaker 1: your desk, your bag. It doesn't fit. 642 00:31:54,702 --> 00:31:56,701 Speaker 2: And when, of course I bought that accessory and then 643 00:31:56,742 --> 00:31:57,742 Speaker 2: I lost the water bottle. 644 00:32:00,102 --> 00:32:01,982 Speaker 1: I put this on Instagram and I had a bunch 645 00:32:02,022 --> 00:32:05,102 Speaker 1: of pelvic floor physios say, this is a real issue 646 00:32:05,182 --> 00:32:07,302 Speaker 1: for women. They're drinking too much water and they're fucking 647 00:32:07,342 --> 00:32:11,542 Speaker 1: their pelvic floors. Yeah, because women can't have three point 648 00:32:11,661 --> 00:32:15,622 Speaker 1: seven leaders yes of water just sitting on your pelvic 649 00:32:15,661 --> 00:32:18,542 Speaker 1: floor when you've had multiple children. And someone else said, 650 00:32:18,582 --> 00:32:20,262 Speaker 1: I'm a surgeon and people are breaking their toes. 651 00:32:20,622 --> 00:32:25,661 Speaker 3: Oh thought you meant by the water of their stream 652 00:32:26,622 --> 00:32:30,542 Speaker 3: after the break? Why everything is a trend, particularly cottage chief. 653 00:32:31,382 --> 00:32:34,102 Speaker 2: Do you want daily outloud access? Why wouldn't you? We 654 00:32:34,262 --> 00:32:38,302 Speaker 2: drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mum and 655 00:32:38,382 --> 00:32:40,902 Speaker 2: MEA subscribers. Follow the link in the show notes to 656 00:32:40,942 --> 00:32:43,342 Speaker 2: get us in your ears five days a week and 657 00:32:43,422 --> 00:32:51,142 Speaker 2: a huge thank you. If you're already a subscriber in 658 00:32:51,262 --> 00:32:53,701 Speaker 2: case you missed it. The b CCI, the Board of 659 00:32:53,742 --> 00:32:57,782 Speaker 2: Control for cricket in India, has introduced new travel restrictions 660 00:32:57,942 --> 00:33:02,181 Speaker 2: for Indian cricketers wives and families following poor performance in 661 00:33:02,302 --> 00:33:05,542 Speaker 2: recent test series against New Zealand and Australia. Under the 662 00:33:05,622 --> 00:33:07,862 Speaker 2: revised rules, family members can stay with players for a 663 00:33:07,942 --> 00:33:11,582 Speaker 2: maximum of fourteen days during tours lasting over forty five days, 664 00:33:11,862 --> 00:33:14,382 Speaker 2: and only seven days for shorter toours. I wonder if 665 00:33:14,382 --> 00:33:17,302 Speaker 2: they've also got sex pants. So basically the wives and 666 00:33:17,382 --> 00:33:19,542 Speaker 2: girlfriends just for their performance. 667 00:33:19,661 --> 00:33:22,542 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not the first time. I remember in English football, 668 00:33:22,661 --> 00:33:24,862 Speaker 3: I think about ten years ago there was what everybody 669 00:33:24,942 --> 00:33:27,582 Speaker 3: called the wag ban, which was when the footballers wives 670 00:33:27,622 --> 00:33:30,222 Speaker 3: and girlfriends weren't allowed to travel to Baden Barden for 671 00:33:30,382 --> 00:33:32,182 Speaker 3: I know, the World Cup of the Euros or something, 672 00:33:32,542 --> 00:33:35,062 Speaker 3: and everyone was up in arms and basically the manager 673 00:33:35,182 --> 00:33:37,702 Speaker 3: made the decision and he said, if they want to come, 674 00:33:37,782 --> 00:33:39,622 Speaker 3: they can make their own arrangements and turn up, but 675 00:33:39,702 --> 00:33:42,142 Speaker 3: we are not bringing wives and girlfriends on tour anymore 676 00:33:42,142 --> 00:33:43,302 Speaker 3: because they are a distraction. 677 00:33:44,302 --> 00:33:46,022 Speaker 1: I feel sorry because that's a lot of days that 678 00:33:46,022 --> 00:33:48,342 Speaker 1: you're playing cricket. Right, that was forty five days or something. 679 00:33:48,422 --> 00:33:50,902 Speaker 2: Wouldn't feel that sorry because it's like, does everyone anyone 680 00:33:50,942 --> 00:33:52,102 Speaker 2: else get to bring their wives? 681 00:33:52,142 --> 00:33:54,302 Speaker 3: And no, no, no, it's not that bad. I about 682 00:33:54,382 --> 00:33:56,142 Speaker 3: Can you imagine if Brent was sitting in the corner 683 00:33:56,182 --> 00:33:57,782 Speaker 3: applauding every time we said something. 684 00:33:57,622 --> 00:33:58,941 Speaker 1: You know, No, he'd love to be here. 685 00:33:59,062 --> 00:34:02,582 Speaker 2: He's tried, no, but cricketers, we had to lock him out. 686 00:34:02,702 --> 00:34:05,982 Speaker 1: They're traveling all around the world. I have heard cricketers 687 00:34:06,022 --> 00:34:09,022 Speaker 1: interviewed who say how difficult it is, especially with really 688 00:34:09,062 --> 00:34:11,782 Speaker 1: little kids, Like, imagine how much Jesse is a life choice. 689 00:34:12,022 --> 00:34:14,582 Speaker 1: It's a life choice. But to not have your say, 690 00:34:14,702 --> 00:34:17,582 Speaker 1: wife and a newborn along with you if you've newly 691 00:34:17,622 --> 00:34:20,341 Speaker 1: become a father, would that be when you're at work 692 00:34:20,781 --> 00:34:22,821 Speaker 1: but you're on there much at work, when you're not 693 00:34:22,982 --> 00:34:24,661 Speaker 1: on the pitch and you're just going back to a 694 00:34:25,022 --> 00:34:26,102 Speaker 1: hotel room or whatever. 695 00:34:27,181 --> 00:34:30,062 Speaker 2: Well, yes, no, it's interesting because they've also the other 696 00:34:30,342 --> 00:34:32,822 Speaker 2: new rule that they've made is that if the wives 697 00:34:32,862 --> 00:34:36,142 Speaker 2: and the partners and are on tour with them, the 698 00:34:36,221 --> 00:34:38,902 Speaker 2: players must travel together on the team bus. So obviously 699 00:34:39,022 --> 00:34:41,102 Speaker 2: they've been like, I'll just go with my family and 700 00:34:41,142 --> 00:34:43,462 Speaker 2: I'll meet you there. And it's like no, no, we 701 00:34:43,542 --> 00:34:45,661 Speaker 2: won't have that. What if you guys wanted to bring 702 00:34:45,741 --> 00:34:47,821 Speaker 2: your partners and children on tour when we went on. 703 00:34:47,982 --> 00:34:50,821 Speaker 1: The thing is we only tour for a very short 704 00:34:50,862 --> 00:34:53,622 Speaker 1: amount of time, pretty people, Jesse. If forty five days 705 00:34:53,661 --> 00:34:56,102 Speaker 1: a year we weren't there, then. 706 00:34:56,181 --> 00:34:58,301 Speaker 2: They've got to find someone to blame. And you know, 707 00:34:58,422 --> 00:35:00,701 Speaker 2: as I always say, it's usually the women's fault. 708 00:35:02,342 --> 00:35:04,502 Speaker 3: If you are on trend for twenty twenty five, then 709 00:35:04,582 --> 00:35:08,382 Speaker 3: right now you're wearing a statement flat shoe, also matching 710 00:35:08,462 --> 00:35:11,462 Speaker 3: it back with your weighted vest, and eating a boiled 711 00:35:11,462 --> 00:35:12,542 Speaker 3: egg because protein. 712 00:35:13,022 --> 00:35:15,662 Speaker 2: They don't know my life. That is literally been my morning, 713 00:35:16,661 --> 00:35:20,462 Speaker 2: every single thing you just said. I'm wearing my flats, 714 00:35:20,661 --> 00:35:23,262 Speaker 2: I was wearing my weighted vest. I finished my protein. 715 00:35:23,661 --> 00:35:26,502 Speaker 1: I noticed that weighted vest were a perimenopause thing, and 716 00:35:26,622 --> 00:35:29,102 Speaker 1: it hadn't even left my mouth before me it was like, oh, I've. 717 00:35:28,982 --> 00:35:29,462 Speaker 2: Got two. 718 00:35:31,302 --> 00:35:34,781 Speaker 3: One to Anyway, there have always been trends for our 719 00:35:34,822 --> 00:35:36,542 Speaker 3: hair and our shoes, of course, and there have also 720 00:35:36,701 --> 00:35:38,902 Speaker 3: been those helpful trends for our bodies which have always 721 00:35:38,902 --> 00:35:40,622 Speaker 3: been great for us. Your big boobs are in and 722 00:35:40,661 --> 00:35:42,941 Speaker 3: then you're out. Your flat bomb is in. Then it's out, 723 00:35:42,982 --> 00:35:45,542 Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. But how does a food group 724 00:35:45,661 --> 00:35:48,462 Speaker 3: become on trend the way that protein really has At 725 00:35:48,502 --> 00:35:52,062 Speaker 3: the moment, every instareel that involves food that pops up 726 00:35:52,102 --> 00:35:54,982 Speaker 3: in my feed helpfully advises me how many grams of 727 00:35:55,102 --> 00:35:58,902 Speaker 3: protein the dish, all that meal contains. This is because 728 00:35:58,902 --> 00:36:01,421 Speaker 3: I'm a midwoman, and obviously I'm falling for it because 729 00:36:01,422 --> 00:36:04,662 Speaker 3: I need to optimize myself. Like Gwyneth, I am buying 730 00:36:04,862 --> 00:36:07,622 Speaker 3: bread with added protein, yogurt with added protein, pasta with 731 00:36:07,701 --> 00:36:10,821 Speaker 3: added protein. My cottage cheese, which apparently was always a 732 00:36:10,862 --> 00:36:13,102 Speaker 3: good source of protein, now has more protein in it. 733 00:36:13,502 --> 00:36:15,821 Speaker 3: And at this point, on January the fifteenth, I am 734 00:36:15,942 --> 00:36:20,102 Speaker 3: ninety percent hard boiled egg and ten percent post. I 735 00:36:20,221 --> 00:36:23,181 Speaker 3: bought a new blender for protein rich smoothies, which TikTok 736 00:36:23,261 --> 00:36:26,102 Speaker 3: tells me I can turn into protein reached banana bread 737 00:36:26,142 --> 00:36:29,582 Speaker 3: with a dollip of you guessed it, cottage cheese. And 738 00:36:29,741 --> 00:36:32,102 Speaker 3: the thing is stupid sheep that I am. I don't 739 00:36:32,102 --> 00:36:36,781 Speaker 3: even know what protein is how it does. I just 740 00:36:36,942 --> 00:36:38,821 Speaker 3: know I have to eat more of it. So how 741 00:36:38,902 --> 00:36:43,701 Speaker 3: did protein become the sexy go to word for women's health? Well, 742 00:36:43,781 --> 00:36:46,142 Speaker 3: look when I did look into what protein was because 743 00:36:46,142 --> 00:36:48,622 Speaker 3: I am such an idiot actual nutrition. It's not me. 744 00:36:48,902 --> 00:36:50,901 Speaker 3: So this is why we do need it and why 745 00:36:50,902 --> 00:36:53,422 Speaker 3: I'm eating all those boiled eggs. It helps to prevent 746 00:36:53,661 --> 00:36:57,262 Speaker 3: accelerated muscle mass loss, helps build bone health, and helps 747 00:36:57,302 --> 00:37:00,342 Speaker 3: optimize you metabolism. It also has some evidence that it 748 00:37:00,661 --> 00:37:03,781 Speaker 3: helps with mental health because it can help boost your 749 00:37:04,022 --> 00:37:07,381 Speaker 3: dopamine receptors or something, and all of those things can 750 00:37:07,422 --> 00:37:10,422 Speaker 3: be negatively affected by a lost of which is why 751 00:37:10,422 --> 00:37:13,301 Speaker 3: all the midwomen are into it. Fun fun, fun. So 752 00:37:14,142 --> 00:37:16,741 Speaker 3: I want to know because I have a suspicion that 753 00:37:16,902 --> 00:37:18,701 Speaker 3: it might be just a new way to talk about 754 00:37:18,741 --> 00:37:20,382 Speaker 3: something we've been talking about a long time, which is 755 00:37:20,462 --> 00:37:23,661 Speaker 3: low carb. We're not allowed to say anymore I'm not 756 00:37:23,741 --> 00:37:26,381 Speaker 3: eating carbs, but we are allowed to say I'm really 757 00:37:26,542 --> 00:37:28,062 Speaker 3: trying to eat more protein. 758 00:37:28,741 --> 00:37:32,862 Speaker 1: It's firstly, it is the result of a lot of research, 759 00:37:32,902 --> 00:37:36,462 Speaker 1: and they are very smart people working in like dieticians 760 00:37:36,462 --> 00:37:39,181 Speaker 1: who are working in this space and publishing papers. And 761 00:37:39,261 --> 00:37:41,422 Speaker 1: it does seem like the cutting edge research is protein 762 00:37:41,661 --> 00:37:44,221 Speaker 1: good for now, And the nature of research is it 763 00:37:44,261 --> 00:37:48,902 Speaker 1: constantly evolves and changes. I also think that in terms 764 00:37:49,261 --> 00:37:53,261 Speaker 1: of how to communicate public health messaging. Telling people what 765 00:37:53,342 --> 00:37:55,662 Speaker 1: they should eat more of rather than what they should 766 00:37:55,661 --> 00:37:58,821 Speaker 1: eat less of is probably a good thing. So we 767 00:37:58,902 --> 00:38:01,382 Speaker 1: were told like less sugar, less fat, less blood. It's like, 768 00:38:01,741 --> 00:38:04,702 Speaker 1: eat this because it'll fill you out. Yeah, health wise, 769 00:38:04,741 --> 00:38:08,862 Speaker 1: seems like a relatively good message. I also think that 770 00:38:08,982 --> 00:38:13,701 Speaker 1: the reason protein is resonating is because it's about weight management, 771 00:38:14,142 --> 00:38:17,222 Speaker 1: but it's also about bone strength, especially for women. 772 00:38:17,382 --> 00:38:19,542 Speaker 2: If it is about weight management, to be honest, because 773 00:38:19,582 --> 00:38:20,661 Speaker 2: it can cause you to put on. 774 00:38:20,781 --> 00:38:24,741 Speaker 1: Weight, well, it's about lean muscle, maus and metabolism. So 775 00:38:24,781 --> 00:38:26,502 Speaker 1: when I was doing research on this and the reason 776 00:38:26,542 --> 00:38:28,942 Speaker 1: why a lot of people are gravitating towards it, and 777 00:38:29,382 --> 00:38:31,422 Speaker 1: as much as I kind of criticize this, a lot 778 00:38:31,462 --> 00:38:34,421 Speaker 1: of our discussions about health are really coded are about weight. 779 00:38:34,942 --> 00:38:38,062 Speaker 1: A lot of the research suggests more muscle burns for out, 780 00:38:38,862 --> 00:38:41,582 Speaker 1: so that's why people do it. But the other thing 781 00:38:41,982 --> 00:38:47,982 Speaker 1: is injury prevention, and with an enormous increase in exercise, 782 00:38:48,062 --> 00:38:50,221 Speaker 1: and knowing that exercise, there's a word that we are 783 00:38:50,261 --> 00:38:52,462 Speaker 1: going to be hearing more than ever in the next 784 00:38:52,502 --> 00:38:56,982 Speaker 1: twelve months, and that word is longevity. So people don't 785 00:38:57,102 --> 00:39:00,142 Speaker 1: just want to live longer they want to live longer 786 00:39:00,221 --> 00:39:04,222 Speaker 1: with a far better quality of life, and having muscle 787 00:39:04,302 --> 00:39:06,861 Speaker 1: mass is going to help with you hear people fall 788 00:39:06,942 --> 00:39:09,542 Speaker 1: over and break a hip or whatever. Like muscle mass, 789 00:39:09,542 --> 00:39:09,861 Speaker 1: this is good. 790 00:39:09,902 --> 00:39:12,182 Speaker 2: Same with bone density. That's why we're all lifting weights 791 00:39:12,221 --> 00:39:14,741 Speaker 2: like Arnold Schwartz smooking exactly. So is that why you 792 00:39:14,781 --> 00:39:17,301 Speaker 2: have a weighted vest? Yeah, I've got a weighted vest 793 00:39:17,382 --> 00:39:19,942 Speaker 2: that I sung. I waited too hard over the holidays. 794 00:39:19,942 --> 00:39:23,062 Speaker 2: I waited my vest while I was lifting my weight, 795 00:39:24,622 --> 00:39:28,821 Speaker 2: hurt myself and I literally the other day, I'm such 796 00:39:28,902 --> 00:39:31,901 Speaker 2: a cliche and a basic bitch. A very blood box 797 00:39:32,022 --> 00:39:35,502 Speaker 2: arrived at our house with four kilos of protein and 798 00:39:35,622 --> 00:39:38,982 Speaker 2: Jason's like, what is that? And I'm like, I need protein. 799 00:39:39,261 --> 00:39:41,261 Speaker 2: So are you putting it in your green smoothies? I'm 800 00:39:41,261 --> 00:39:43,142 Speaker 2: putting it in my green smoothie. Is the other reason 801 00:39:43,181 --> 00:39:44,821 Speaker 2: that I think people are big on protein. I was 802 00:39:44,862 --> 00:39:46,862 Speaker 2: told by two doctors my doctor's after I had a 803 00:39:46,902 --> 00:39:49,462 Speaker 2: whole lot of just blood tests, just check ups and stuff. 804 00:39:50,142 --> 00:39:53,902 Speaker 2: Because I don't eat meat. I'm essentially a pescatarian and 805 00:39:54,022 --> 00:39:57,022 Speaker 2: I don't eat much fish. My diet is mostly tea 806 00:39:57,102 --> 00:40:00,102 Speaker 2: and carbs, and so I was you know. When she 807 00:40:00,302 --> 00:40:02,342 Speaker 2: looked at what I was eating, She's like, you're literally 808 00:40:02,382 --> 00:40:06,942 Speaker 2: giving almost no protein. And so I am now thinking 809 00:40:07,221 --> 00:40:10,062 Speaker 2: through the lens of protein meals, because I'm the opposite you, Jesse. 810 00:40:10,221 --> 00:40:12,902 Speaker 2: If I don't have carbs, I don't feel full protein. 811 00:40:12,982 --> 00:40:16,542 Speaker 2: I'm like, whatevers, I can live without it. But I 812 00:40:17,181 --> 00:40:19,542 Speaker 2: have increased my protein. I've got my weighted vest on. 813 00:40:20,181 --> 00:40:23,502 Speaker 3: And have you started sleep, Hugene yet, that's the next 814 00:40:23,542 --> 00:40:24,501 Speaker 3: thing that's going to be a sleep. 815 00:40:24,582 --> 00:40:27,781 Speaker 2: Touch with sleep is okay, I'm slapping my hit patches on. 816 00:40:28,221 --> 00:40:29,022 Speaker 3: So I just look. 817 00:40:29,062 --> 00:40:30,661 Speaker 2: I think it's also very gen x that we just 818 00:40:30,701 --> 00:40:32,861 Speaker 2: make a big fucking deal about anything that we're doing. 819 00:40:33,181 --> 00:40:35,422 Speaker 2: We don't do it happily quietly interesting. 820 00:40:35,701 --> 00:40:38,022 Speaker 1: I was reading this research that said that the highest 821 00:40:38,062 --> 00:40:40,502 Speaker 1: like search terms, the people who are most obsessed with 822 00:40:40,582 --> 00:40:44,582 Speaker 1: protein are like twenty to forty Like they're the ones. 823 00:40:44,982 --> 00:40:48,022 Speaker 3: I would hazard a guess too that that might be 824 00:40:48,181 --> 00:40:51,462 Speaker 3: male bit more male, because it is true about the muscle. 825 00:40:51,502 --> 00:40:54,902 Speaker 3: Bros has previously discussed how it's very cool at the 826 00:40:54,942 --> 00:40:56,902 Speaker 3: moment to be really shredded in the MMA and stuff 827 00:40:56,902 --> 00:40:58,862 Speaker 3: that you've got to help your protein for that. I 828 00:40:59,062 --> 00:41:02,982 Speaker 3: just find it really fascinating how health trends because you're 829 00:41:02,982 --> 00:41:05,181 Speaker 3: so right, Jesse what you said before. We're learning more 830 00:41:05,302 --> 00:41:08,102 Speaker 3: all the time, so it's really great that we're all 831 00:41:08,181 --> 00:41:10,741 Speaker 3: a bit more aware of like protein does this, and 832 00:41:10,902 --> 00:41:13,461 Speaker 3: you need more of that because your estrogen's plunging and blush. 833 00:41:13,822 --> 00:41:17,022 Speaker 3: But it also feels like these things just come out 834 00:41:17,062 --> 00:41:20,582 Speaker 3: of nowhere suddenly, and every single thing that you see 835 00:41:20,781 --> 00:41:22,382 Speaker 3: is protein, protein, protein protein. 836 00:41:22,502 --> 00:41:25,821 Speaker 2: But that's because of TikTok. That's because of social media. 837 00:41:25,902 --> 00:41:31,062 Speaker 2: TikTok influences. Things happen really really fast. Usually they're ahead. 838 00:41:31,342 --> 00:41:34,861 Speaker 2: I was reading recently, it's now that TikTok trickles up 839 00:41:34,942 --> 00:41:37,542 Speaker 2: to the media that the media now then reports on 840 00:41:37,741 --> 00:41:42,662 Speaker 2: what's on TikTok. But TikTok because it's regular people, mostly 841 00:41:42,741 --> 00:41:46,661 Speaker 2: younger people, but regular people, it is like what everyone's doing, 842 00:41:46,741 --> 00:41:48,901 Speaker 2: and then it suddenly can go viral and it can 843 00:41:49,022 --> 00:41:50,261 Speaker 2: feel like everyone's doing it. 844 00:41:50,462 --> 00:41:53,582 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that there's some probably necessary to 845 00:41:53,622 --> 00:41:55,902 Speaker 1: have a dose of skepticism because in the past a 846 00:41:56,102 --> 00:41:59,821 Speaker 1: huge trends of food have actually been driven by the 847 00:41:59,902 --> 00:42:03,422 Speaker 1: market forces. So it's like we need to sell more beef. 848 00:42:03,622 --> 00:42:06,502 Speaker 2: Oh, that's not the reason Yeah. Because of weight loss 849 00:42:06,741 --> 00:42:09,102 Speaker 2: drugs or the new generation of weight loss drugs that 850 00:42:09,102 --> 00:42:12,781 Speaker 2: are coming along, people are consuming less calories and if 851 00:42:12,822 --> 00:42:15,982 Speaker 2: you're consuming less fuel in the form of food, you 852 00:42:16,221 --> 00:42:19,422 Speaker 2: need the fuel that you're consuming to be high quality, 853 00:42:19,942 --> 00:42:23,741 Speaker 2: so you need things like protein to build muscles. There's 854 00:42:23,741 --> 00:42:25,221 Speaker 2: been a lot of emphasis on that too. 855 00:42:25,462 --> 00:42:28,782 Speaker 1: Have either of you watched Brian Johnson's documentary on Netflix 856 00:42:28,781 --> 00:42:29,502 Speaker 1: about Never Dying? 857 00:42:29,781 --> 00:42:31,902 Speaker 2: I find him just so creepy. I've watched quite a 858 00:42:31,942 --> 00:42:34,302 Speaker 2: bit of YouTube about him and his YouTube channel. 859 00:42:34,422 --> 00:42:36,181 Speaker 3: I think we're going to talk about it at some point. 860 00:42:36,342 --> 00:42:39,461 Speaker 3: He goes to the nth degree of measuring every little 861 00:42:39,502 --> 00:42:41,942 Speaker 3: bit of everything that goes in your body. And we know, 862 00:42:42,142 --> 00:42:44,341 Speaker 3: and we know about this conversation that for a lot 863 00:42:44,382 --> 00:42:47,382 Speaker 3: of women, whenever you talk about what you're eating and 864 00:42:47,542 --> 00:42:50,142 Speaker 3: how to eat it, it can be really dangerous in 865 00:42:50,181 --> 00:42:51,861 Speaker 3: a way because we can obsess about it when really 866 00:42:52,382 --> 00:42:54,142 Speaker 3: I think a lot of the stats in Australia show 867 00:42:54,142 --> 00:42:56,102 Speaker 3: at least that we don't really have a problem with protein. 868 00:42:56,221 --> 00:42:58,102 Speaker 3: Me or a side she did she needed to get 869 00:42:58,142 --> 00:43:00,622 Speaker 3: the protein pattern. But Australians generally do eat a lot 870 00:43:00,661 --> 00:43:02,542 Speaker 3: of meat, and they do eat a lot of protein, 871 00:43:02,582 --> 00:43:04,381 Speaker 3: and so they're saying that studies show that it wasn't 872 00:43:04,462 --> 00:43:07,022 Speaker 3: really a big problem for us, but we've convinced ourselves 873 00:43:07,062 --> 00:43:09,301 Speaker 3: it is. And it's something else to angst about the 874 00:43:09,622 --> 00:43:13,742 Speaker 3: way that a guy like Brian Johnson has turned everything 875 00:43:13,781 --> 00:43:17,022 Speaker 3: he puts into his body into an absolute science, down 876 00:43:17,102 --> 00:43:19,142 Speaker 3: to the last little Millie drop. If that is a 877 00:43:19,221 --> 00:43:20,902 Speaker 3: trend that's going to spread out. 878 00:43:22,181 --> 00:43:25,582 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think because that released that came out on 879 00:43:25,622 --> 00:43:27,741 Speaker 1: the first of January, which was no accident. I think 880 00:43:27,822 --> 00:43:30,062 Speaker 1: that was almost like, we know what your New Year's 881 00:43:30,062 --> 00:43:33,142 Speaker 1: resolutions are, and they're about health. And so I've been 882 00:43:33,261 --> 00:43:35,781 Speaker 1: interested to see what the health trends are going to 883 00:43:35,822 --> 00:43:38,062 Speaker 1: be for twenty twenty five, and I think they're very 884 00:43:38,221 --> 00:43:42,502 Speaker 1: influenced by him. So some of them are preventative medicine, 885 00:43:42,582 --> 00:43:44,861 Speaker 1: so getting bigger and bigger. You'll hear people talk about, 886 00:43:44,942 --> 00:43:47,422 Speaker 1: I do this to lower my risk of diabetes. 887 00:43:47,502 --> 00:43:49,022 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why I'm doing weights. 888 00:43:50,382 --> 00:43:53,221 Speaker 1: At home health testing. So even with your paps. I 889 00:43:53,261 --> 00:43:55,181 Speaker 1: did my pap smeir at home recently. That kind of 890 00:43:55,261 --> 00:43:59,181 Speaker 1: sty convenient, very good AI coaching, and Brian Johnson talks 891 00:43:59,181 --> 00:44:02,102 Speaker 1: about this, which is having an AI assistant. He says, 892 00:44:02,142 --> 00:44:03,821 Speaker 1: it's our brain getting in the way of a lot 893 00:44:03,862 --> 00:44:08,301 Speaker 1: of health decisions. An AI coach that says, exercise now, 894 00:44:08,502 --> 00:44:08,861 Speaker 1: this is what. 895 00:44:08,982 --> 00:44:10,301 Speaker 2: You do, this is what you should eat. 896 00:44:10,462 --> 00:44:12,741 Speaker 3: Blah blah blah. I'm only laughing because you know what 897 00:44:12,822 --> 00:44:14,741 Speaker 3: I'm like. I'm like, you're not the botto of me. 898 00:44:16,062 --> 00:44:17,902 Speaker 2: I know you know all the things that I know. 899 00:44:17,982 --> 00:44:21,222 Speaker 3: You've consumed every piece of information in the entire universe 900 00:44:21,261 --> 00:44:23,221 Speaker 3: about this, and you are telling me what is absolutely 901 00:44:23,261 --> 00:44:24,982 Speaker 3: perfect from my particular body. 902 00:44:24,781 --> 00:44:26,301 Speaker 2: But you are not the bottom of This is going 903 00:44:26,342 --> 00:44:28,301 Speaker 2: to be the year of Holly saying no every time 904 00:44:28,382 --> 00:44:29,661 Speaker 2: AI tells us something No. 905 00:44:31,582 --> 00:44:34,062 Speaker 3: Out Louder is a massive thank you for being with 906 00:44:34,261 --> 00:44:36,861 Speaker 3: us today while we solved all the problems of the world, 907 00:44:36,942 --> 00:44:41,382 Speaker 3: especially those who created haikus specifically, maybe let's write a 908 00:44:41,382 --> 00:44:42,582 Speaker 3: haiku about boiled eggs. 909 00:44:42,822 --> 00:44:43,102 Speaker 2: Okay. 910 00:44:43,781 --> 00:44:46,181 Speaker 3: I had a massive thank you to our fabulous team 911 00:44:46,342 --> 00:44:48,181 Speaker 3: for putting this show together. We're going to be back 912 00:44:48,221 --> 00:44:49,542 Speaker 3: in your ears tomorrow. 913 00:44:49,342 --> 00:44:52,221 Speaker 1: Before we go out louders. So much happened over the 914 00:44:52,261 --> 00:44:54,422 Speaker 1: break that we were desperate to talk about, so we 915 00:44:54,741 --> 00:44:58,382 Speaker 1: packed it in to two subscriber episodes. The one that 916 00:44:58,422 --> 00:45:01,261 Speaker 1: we dropped yesterday catch up about Yes, we had to 917 00:45:01,342 --> 00:45:04,742 Speaker 1: catch up, not about our life Hugh Jackman and Suck Foster. 918 00:45:05,142 --> 00:45:09,342 Speaker 1: That was important. And also Golden Globes mayor gave some 919 00:45:09,622 --> 00:45:14,062 Speaker 1: opinions about some fashion and such things and you can 920 00:45:14,142 --> 00:45:15,781 Speaker 1: find a link to that in our show notes. 921 00:45:16,022 --> 00:45:21,182 Speaker 2: Bye bye bye. Shout out to any Muma Miya subscribers listening. 922 00:45:21,422 --> 00:45:23,661 Speaker 2: If you love the show and want to support us 923 00:45:23,741 --> 00:45:26,221 Speaker 2: as well, subscribing to mom and Mia is the very 924 00:45:26,302 --> 00:45:28,221 Speaker 2: best way to do so. There is a link in 925 00:45:28,302 --> 00:45:29,342 Speaker 2: the episode description