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Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Calming Blankets.

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Speaker 2: If people like me can experience family violence, anyone can.

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Speaker 2: And it's not just those women because of their culture,

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Speaker 2: or women living in low socioeconomic areas. It's happening not

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Speaker 2: just across Australia, but across the world on levels that

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Speaker 2: you know are horrifying. Well, self doubt is when you're

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Speaker 2: doing something that's maybe new, or something where you're stretching

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Speaker 2: and exploring that it's not familiar and so it's all

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Speaker 2: a sign of growth. Arriving at joy does not take

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Speaker 2: an overnight journey. You know, it's moments of joy that

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Speaker 2: you still have.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Seas the YA Podcast. Busy and happy

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Speaker 1: are not the same thing. We too rarely question what

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Speaker 1: makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but

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Speaker 1: rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than

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Speaker 1: one way. So this is a platform to hear and

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Speaker 1: explore the stories of those who found lives. They adore

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Speaker 1: the good, bad and ugly. The best and worst day

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Speaker 1: will bear all the facets of seizing your YEA. I'm

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Speaker 1: Sarah Davidson or a spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned

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Speaker 1: funentrepreneur who swapped the suits and heels to co found

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Speaker 1: Matcha Maiden and Matcha Milk Bar. Cesa is a series

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Speaker 1: of conversations on finding a life you love and exploring

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Speaker 1: the self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment along the way. Hello,

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Speaker 1: beautiful people, hope you're having an amazing week. Back with

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Speaker 1: another wonderful guest today, I've pushed this week's Yeas of

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Speaker 1: Our Lives episode back a little bit until the gips

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Speaker 1: Land video is ready so you can put some faces

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Speaker 1: to names, so that will be out next week. This

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Speaker 1: week I was lucky enough to sit down with Rosy

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Speaker 1: Batty twenty fifteen, Australian of the Year and passionate campaigner

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Speaker 1: against domestic violence. During a week where the alarming statistics

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Speaker 1: surrounding violence against women have been brought back to the

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Speaker 1: forefront of our attention. Rosie has turned the unf fathomable

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Speaker 1: personal tragedy of losing her son Luke, who was murdered

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Speaker 1: by his father in twenty fourteen, into a relentless fight

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Speaker 1: to raise awareness of family violence and address the systemic

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Speaker 1: and many other obstacles to positive change. The topic is

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Speaker 1: a little heavier than usual, but I believe it's such

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Speaker 1: an important conversation to continue to amplify the fact that

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Speaker 1: one woman a week is still killed by her partner

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Speaker 1: or former partner. Rosie also has such powerful insights on

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Speaker 1: rediscovering joy through the paralysis of grief, unraveling her identity

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Speaker 1: from trauma, which is not the only part of who

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Speaker 1: she is, and I loved also having the chance to

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Speaker 1: get to know about the parts of her story that

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Speaker 1: I hadn't heard about in the media, right back to

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Speaker 1: her childhood in the UK. Rosie is also an ambassador

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Speaker 1: for Lorel's latest Women of Worth campaign, and we also

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Speaker 1: chat about some of Larel's Self Worth commissioned research about

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Speaker 1: the pervasive and destructive nature of self doubt and low

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Speaker 1: self esteem among women. If anyone will inspire us all

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Speaker 1: to combat the self doubt and continue to raise each

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Speaker 1: other up, it's Rosie. I hope you are as moved

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Speaker 1: by her as I was. Rosie Batty, Welcome.

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Speaker 2: To the show.

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Speaker 1: Hi, Sarah, I'm so excited to have you. You're such

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Speaker 1: an incredible human being. Thank you so much for joining.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Before we kick off, I love to start by asking

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Speaker 1: everyone what the most down to earth thing is about them,

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Speaker 1: particularly for people like yourself, where many of us have

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Speaker 1: heard your name and your story, and of course the

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Speaker 1: first thing I said to you was what an incredible

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Speaker 1: and inspiring Himan you are. But I'm sure there are

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Speaker 1: very very normal, relatable parts of your life. So what's

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Speaker 1: something really normal about you?

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Speaker 2: Oh? It's interesting, isn't it? Because I would say that

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Speaker 2: most people would say I'm very down to worth, and

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Speaker 2: I think that comes from I was a farmer's daughter.

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Speaker 2: I lived in a little country village, and my dad

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Speaker 2: is very down to worth, talk to anybody. He's such

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Speaker 2: a genuine man. And I think, you know what makes

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Speaker 2: me down to earth is I think a lot of that.

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Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't matter who you are, there's always

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Speaker 2: a conversation and always you can always say hello and

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Speaker 2: have a bit of a yarn. And I think the

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Speaker 2: most down to a thing about me is I just

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Speaker 2: love being scruffy. I just love having tracking, you know, whatever,

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Speaker 2: tatty clothes. So I grew up on a farm, you

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Speaker 2: didn't have you had best clothes, you saved the best

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Speaker 2: and the rest of the time you went around getting

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Speaker 2: dirty and playing. And I think I've always been that person.

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Speaker 2: I like to wear rags around the house almost, you know,

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Speaker 2: walking my dogs. And so I like to keep my

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Speaker 2: good clothes for best and I like to wear out

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Speaker 2: my older clothes. And I look to think to myself

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Speaker 2: sometimes people know who I am and must think, oh

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Speaker 2: my god, what a disappointment this woman is when teacher

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Speaker 2: not at all?

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Speaker 1: Comfort is key.

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Speaker 2: You know, I scrub up well. I do make sure

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Speaker 2: that when I'm going out somewhere nice, you know, I

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Speaker 2: look good. Well, you know, I like I make an effort.

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Speaker 2: But I love not having to wear makeup. I love

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Speaker 2: just wearing dougie clothes. And I always feel I'm one

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Speaker 2: of those people that there's always something a bit missing,

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Speaker 2: haven't quite got the shoes that match. And yet I

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Speaker 2: spend a fortune on clothes, you know. I just feel

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Speaker 2: like I look at other people who've always got the

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Speaker 2: right outfit, the right accessory.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think I'm incredibly well.

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Speaker 2: You know. That's what I've loved about COVID and elements

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Speaker 2: of being socially isolated. It is the actual comfort boots

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Speaker 2: every day. I actually disposed of them at the end

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Speaker 2: of lockdown because I've gone it was their time for

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Speaker 2: these to go in their being, you know, so they

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Speaker 2: need to go.

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Speaker 1: Well, that just goes to show that you can take

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Speaker 1: the girl out of the farm. That you just can't

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Speaker 1: take that farm out of the girl.

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Speaker 2: You just can't. I just don't think you can, and

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't want to.

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Speaker 1: Well, that actually leads very nicely to the first section,

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Speaker 1: which is your way ta and that is pretty much

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Speaker 1: tracing back from everyone's earlier beginnings and reminding people that

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Speaker 1: the person that they meet or that they might have

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Speaker 1: seen on the media, or who presents to them now

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Speaker 1: as someone who has clear direction and is on a

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Speaker 1: mission and wakes up with purpose, no one starts that way.

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Speaker 1: They're a product of so many different chapters and experiences.

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Speaker 1: So I like to take it back to the early

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Speaker 1: childhood and trace through all the decisions and sliding doors,

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Speaker 1: moments and forks in the road that you've been through.

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Speaker 1: So take us back to that farm in Lanham, England,

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Speaker 1: and tell us about what you were like as a child.

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Speaker 2: Yes, well, I think you know. I look back and

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Speaker 2: feel how blessed and fortunate I was to grow upon

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Speaker 2: a farm, counsel being milked, Cattle were in the fields

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Speaker 2: every spring, lambs would be born, and we would adopt

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Speaker 2: a little laum that would perhaps have lost be an author,

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Speaker 2: and we bottle feeded, and you know, and space to

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Speaker 2: build dens and hiding places, and you know, we look

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Speaker 2: back and actually hire a lot of It was highly

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Speaker 2: dangerous and you just wouldn't lay children do any of

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Speaker 2: those things now. But you know, there was so much

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Speaker 2: adventure to be had. You had so much freedom. I

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Speaker 2: can only remember. You know, you get up and you

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Speaker 2: come home knowing that you're supposed to be home for

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Speaker 2: meals or something, and the rest of the time you

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Speaker 2: kind of hung out with people. You were growing up

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Speaker 2: in the village. And so I was this little girl

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Speaker 2: that wanted to be a tomboy and had my haircut short,

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Speaker 2: and you know, people thought I was a boy too,

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Speaker 2: which I was pleased about at the time. I certainly

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Speaker 2: wasn't into the pinks and the purples and the barbies,

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Speaker 2: although I did like playing with dolls. Actually, I had

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Speaker 2: two younger brothers and the closest playmates were mostly boys,

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Speaker 2: and so I was determined to hold my own you know,

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Speaker 2: climb trees, not cry, be tough, you know, and so yeah,

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Speaker 2: that was that was my way of growing up. And

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Speaker 2: the thing that you know, really dominated my childhood was

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Speaker 2: that I did lose my mum when I was six,

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Speaker 2: and that was that was something that you know, I

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Speaker 2: can see how that affected me for the rest of

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Speaker 2: my life. Now that I'm older and moving forward in

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Speaker 2: my life, you look back at that moment and realize

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Speaker 2: your whole world just got turned upside down with something

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Speaker 2: you couldn't comprehend or understand and how that trauma because

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Speaker 2: we didn't know anything about trauma in those days, and

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Speaker 2: in that generation, children really were seen, not heard, and

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Speaker 2: they did things to protect you, but they didn't really

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Speaker 2: understand how to work with You know, three little kids

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Speaker 2: had lost their mum overnight, very suddenly, and my father,

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Speaker 2: being a farmer and a product of men of his generation,

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Speaker 2: it was a woman's job to raise the kids. He

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Speaker 2: was the breadwinner, the provider, the men that went out

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Speaker 2: to work. He hadn't been brought up and wasn't that

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Speaker 2: dad that played with you or knew how to comfort

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Speaker 2: and support you in an emotional sense. But you know,

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Speaker 2: my daddy's one of the nicest, kindest men in the world,

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Speaker 2: but he didn't know how to relate to three little

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Speaker 2: kids that really needed their mum, and so I had

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Speaker 2: extended family, neighbors, community that really I remember very fondly

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Speaker 2: always being those people that looked out for me and

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Speaker 2: my brothers. We grew up with them, and yeah, they

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Speaker 2: were a key part of my childhood and my life.

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Speaker 2: Always that connection to my mom. Although I've lived in

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Speaker 2: Australia for over thirty years, still have all my family

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Speaker 2: in the UK, and my roots are still there, and

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Speaker 2: my connection is still strong, and I keep saying one

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Speaker 2: day I will go back. I've always been very, very

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Speaker 2: confused about where I belong and here here I am

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Speaker 2: still in Australia, loving Australian life, good friends, but I

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Speaker 2: do seek to go home on a regular basis. And

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Speaker 2: so that was my childhood, really a lot of freedom.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people will say the same thing. We

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Speaker 2: lived beside a big, very fast moving, dangerous river. When

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Speaker 2: I look back at learning to swim and swam across it,

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Speaker 2: you know, I would literally you know, it wouldn't be

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Speaker 2: something that you would let your kids do now, But

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Speaker 2: that in my generation you had a lot of freedom,

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Speaker 2: and we seem to survive, you know, we seem to

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Speaker 2: live to tell the tale.

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Speaker 1: It actually sounds very similar to stories from my mum,

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Speaker 1: who grew up in a small country town the same thing.

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Speaker 1: She's like, I just got kicked out of the door

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Speaker 1: and told to play and then to come back at dinner,

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Speaker 1: and I was four, like what was I doing right?

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Speaker 1: But she also has the most beautiful stories of you know,

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Speaker 1: how it takes a village to raise a child. And

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Speaker 1: for all the things we didn't understand in earlier generations

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Speaker 1: about emotional support and gender roles and the many different

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Speaker 1: things that have come so far, perhaps we also did

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Speaker 1: have a much much stronger sense of community and.

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Speaker 2: And and certainly there's so much many of the values

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Speaker 2: and the ethics and the you know, those previous generations

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Speaker 2: I've benished if I've benefited greatly as to who I

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Speaker 2: am now because of that role modeling, that commitment, their integrity,

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Speaker 2: their work ethic that you know, that punctuality, there are

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Speaker 2: so many things and that And really one of the

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Speaker 2: things that I guess they had that we struggle with

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Speaker 2: is there is sillion absolutely resilience. You know, they didn't

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Speaker 2: know anything other than getting on with life. When I

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Speaker 2: look at the greatest influences that I think I've learned from,

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Speaker 2: it would be my grandmother who lived till she was

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Speaker 2: one hundred, and I talk about her a lot because

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Speaker 2: after my mum died, she was a huge influence. And

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Speaker 2: I think, if I live to be an old woman,

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Speaker 2: and if I can be anything like my grandmother, she's

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Speaker 2: really told. She taught me how you can continue to

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Speaker 2: live all stages of your life and you can live

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Speaker 2: them as fully as you can. And you know, she's

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Speaker 2: a great inspiration to me. And I still think.

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Speaker 1: Of her one hundred what an incredible achievement.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, if there's one thing that you have definitely

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Speaker 1: carried forward, even if you might not think so yourself,

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Speaker 1: it's resilience, starting from such a young age, going through

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Speaker 1: such such grief and loss, and then having experienced that

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Speaker 1: again later in your life and still being here with

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Speaker 1: a smile on your face. That this is why I

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Speaker 1: find you so so incredible. But before we get to that,

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Speaker 1: what did lead you to Australia? And I always get

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Speaker 1: quite fascinated about that time in your life when you

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Speaker 1: move from childhood where you're unburdened by expectation and norms

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Speaker 1: and ideas of career and productivity, and then suddenly start

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Speaker 1: to instead of playing and doing the things you like

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Speaker 1: and not doing the things you don't like. We suddenly

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Speaker 1: start to be influenced by the should and then what

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Speaker 1: am I going to do with my future? And then

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Speaker 1: how do I choose a career path? And you know,

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Speaker 1: what am I going to be? And that suddenly becomes

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Speaker 1: the focus of our attention. I know you did a

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Speaker 1: secretarial course after high school, but.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting you found that out. Actually, it's interesting to

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Speaker 2: see that. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it, because you look

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Speaker 2: at where you have been influenced and you don't even realize.

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Speaker 2: But my father remarried and my stepmother was the secretary,

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Speaker 2: and really I just couldn't wait to leave school. I

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Speaker 2: left school at sixteen. I couldn't get out quick enough.

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Speaker 2: But really, the thought of going to university studying until

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Speaker 2: I was twenty one seemed just an eternity that I

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Speaker 2: couldn't bear the thought of. So I just, you know,

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Speaker 2: I was out, and I was warning money. I got

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Speaker 2: a job in a bank. I worked there for quite

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Speaker 2: a few years. And my still other had traveled from

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Speaker 2: New Zealand and she'd met my father in the UK,

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Speaker 2: and of course she married him, so her future and

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Speaker 2: you know, she's remained in the UK, but she came

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Speaker 2: from New Zealand. I think what she did was from

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Speaker 2: this little environment in England, this little small community where

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Speaker 2: nobody really traveled much and nobody went very far, and

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Speaker 2: some people who lived in that village and never been

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Speaker 2: to London had never been outside of a two hour

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Speaker 2: radius of the village, you know. So for me, I

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Speaker 2: think I always had this aspiration to not just travel

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Speaker 2: a little bit and do the predictable holidays that English

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Speaker 2: people did, which was, you know, spent a couple of

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Speaker 2: weeks on the beach some bathing, because that's the any

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Speaker 2: time you can get some decent weather. It was like, let's,

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Speaker 2: you know, I go to Spain, go to France, go

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Speaker 2: on do some intense, if some bathing for two weeks,

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Speaker 2: to go home with a tad at all costs. So

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Speaker 2: for me, I always thought I'd like to do more

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Speaker 2: than that. I'd like to actually work overseas, and so

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Speaker 2: it was quite difficult for me to summon up the

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Speaker 2: courage to actually do it. I talked about it a

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Speaker 2: long time before I actually did it, and I spent

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Speaker 2: about not quite two years, but quite a while as

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Speaker 2: a nanny in Austria. You know, it's the first taste

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Speaker 2: of being away from home. And I was chronically home sick,

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Speaker 2: but too ashamed to admit it. So I just cried

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Speaker 2: myself to sleep every night without telling anybody. And then I,

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Speaker 2: you know, I thought, okay, what am I going to

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Speaker 2: do with my life. I know I'll do a secretarial

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Speaker 2: course because the step mother did. So I went back

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Speaker 2: and I did this intensive course which should have been

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Speaker 2: two years into the one year, and I loved it.

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Speaker 2: I worked so hard. I was very proud of myself.

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Speaker 2: I was as I worked really hard at shorthand and

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Speaker 2: was really quite good. And then, of course, after I'd

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Speaker 2: done that, I still had itchy feet and still had

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Speaker 2: aspirations to travel, and so I got around the World

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Speaker 2: ticket which was going to Hong Kong, Australia, New Zealand, Fiji, Canada,

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Speaker 2: and off I went. And I really looked back and

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Speaker 2: had no idea. I mean, one stupid thing I did

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Speaker 2: was I came with a suitcase, had arrived and realized

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Speaker 2: what an idiot because everyone else had got backpacks and

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Speaker 2: I was with this suitcase, and I looked very uncool

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Speaker 2: and stupid. So I took me a few days and

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Speaker 2: then set off. Yeah, I had that desire to not

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Speaker 2: just travel, but to actually be able to work, and

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Speaker 2: Australia gave me a six month PIZA, which is one

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Speaker 2: of the few people places you could legally work, so

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Speaker 2: that gave me that experience, and so you know, eventually

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Speaker 2: in time, I kind of it was driven to I

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Speaker 2: did it with some cleaning job up in Cape Tribulation

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Speaker 2: in Final, Queensland, and found myself staying in places that

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Speaker 2: were friend and amazing, and you know, I had the

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Speaker 2: time of my life on so many levels. And when

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Speaker 2: I a year later, I arrived home, I'd met my

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Speaker 2: old boyfriend a boyfriend, and was very torn about what

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Speaker 2: I was going to do, and so he arrived on

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Speaker 2: my doorstep and I thought, oh god. I had three options.

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Speaker 2: I decided. I regretted I hadn't gone to UNI, so

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Speaker 2: I did get a place, and a confirmed place at

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Speaker 2: a UNI. The other option was to work and live

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Speaker 2: back where I came from and get a local job,

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Speaker 2: so I actually became I got offered a job as

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Speaker 2: a word processing supervisor. And then the third option was

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Speaker 2: to go back to Australia apply for residency on the

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Speaker 2: grounds of a defacto relationship with my boyfriend Steve, so

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Speaker 2: that was the option. I then came back to Australia

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Speaker 2: and I've been here ever.

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Speaker 1: Since, and we have been so lucky to have you,

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Speaker 1: so much so that you became nearly thirty years later

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Speaker 1: an Australian of the Year. So you're well and truly

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Speaker 1: in Australian by our standards anyway.

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Speaker 2: Ironically, seeing if I'm not, I'm English. But yeah, fortunately

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Speaker 2: I had the insight to very quickly. I've only been

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Speaker 2: a resident two years before I applied for citizenships, so

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Speaker 2: I'm one of those English people that got my citizenship

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Speaker 2: very quickly, didn't look back, never considered, you know that

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Speaker 2: there was such a big thing. But I've still got

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Speaker 2: friends here that have from English to saint that have

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Speaker 2: never got the citizenship. You know, I'll give them a

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Speaker 2: poke every now and again.

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Speaker 1: A quick word from our partner in Ya this week.

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Speaker 1: It's no secret in the neighborhood that I suffer from

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Speaker 1: crippling anxiety at times, and even if I'm not winding

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Speaker 1: down and finding calmness is something I adore but don't

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Speaker 1: always find the easiest. I've really had to cultivate routines

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Speaker 1: and tools to trigger a state of relaxation when I

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Speaker 1: need to unwind, and discovering calming blankets has been no

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Speaker 1: word of a lie, a game changer. Their premium weighted

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Speaker 1: blankets help improve sleep and reduce feelings of stress and anxiety,

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00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:08,240
Speaker 1: and come in both adults and children's sizes. The inner

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00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 1: of your calming blanket is sewn with thousands of evenly

350
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,159
Speaker 1: distributed glass beads which help create a weighted effect, and

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Speaker 1: the outer is easily washable. The blankets use the technique

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Speaker 1: of deep touch PreCure stimulation, which studies show helps to

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Speaker 1: trigger an instant calming effect, like the feeling of a

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Speaker 1: hug or a baby being swaddled. They are so cozy,

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Speaker 1: Nick says, I'm like a parrot now. If he needs

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00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,080
Speaker 1: to calm me down, he just throws my calming blanket

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Speaker 1: over me. There's original bamboo and handwoven versions too, so

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Speaker 1: there's something for everyone. I can't go a day without mine.

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00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:44,439
Speaker 1: They've changed my well being routine so much. And just

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Speaker 1: for the yighborhood, I've got one hundred and fifteen dollars

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Speaker 1: off any adult weighted blanket for you when you use

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Speaker 1: the code sees the a link in the show notes. Now,

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Speaker 1: so over the next sort of well, the big in

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Speaker 1: for between arriving here in nineteen eighty eight and then

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00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:07,080
Speaker 1: the sort of twenty fourteen twenty fifteen, where many people's

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Speaker 1: life would still be continuing on this nonlinear, confusing, tumultuous

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Speaker 1: pathway of what's my purpose? Who am I, what's my direction?

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Speaker 1: And be able to devote that attention solely to sort

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Speaker 1: of what they wanted and their fulfillment. A part of

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Speaker 1: your life was very much influenced, impacted and totally spun

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Speaker 1: on its head by a very unfortunate situation. That it's

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Speaker 1: quite a heart wrenching story that you've shared so generously,

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Speaker 1: even though I'm sure it has been incredibly traumatic and

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Speaker 1: difficult to talk about. To raise public awareness and become

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Speaker 1: a very active domestic violence campaigner from about twenty fourteen,

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Speaker 1: tell us that story if you're comfortable to talk about it,

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Speaker 1: and particularly this week, I think after the death of

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Speaker 1: Sarah Everard in London, it's re sparked a big conversation

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Speaker 1: about just this issue, and I'm so glad that we're

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Speaker 1: speaking in this week in particular. Tell us a story.

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Speaker 2: So it was seven years ago, February twelve, I dropped

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Speaker 2: my little boy off for cricket practice. It's towards the

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Speaker 2: end of the cricket season. Luke was eleven. His father

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Speaker 2: was there. I returned a couple of hours later to

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Speaker 2: pick him up, and he asked if he could have

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Speaker 2: a little bit of extra time with his dad practicing

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Speaker 2: bowling in the nets. It was a beautiful, hot evening

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Speaker 2: and he hadn't seen his father for a little while

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Speaker 2: because we'd just come back from the UK, and so

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Speaker 2: I said sure. And as I was just having a

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Speaker 2: quick chat with another parent and just distracted, I realized

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Speaker 2: that Luke wasn't quite in my line of sight, but

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Speaker 2: I knew where he was. And then I heard I

394
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Speaker 2: heard something that made my skin crawl and me realized

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Speaker 2: that something really terrible had happened. And I couldn't see

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Speaker 2: what it was, and I didn't know what it was,

397
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Speaker 2: but I just ran to it and I saw Greg

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Speaker 2: standing over Luke and had I assumed he'd had a

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Speaker 2: really terrible accident, and so I ran in the opposite

400
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Speaker 2: direction to get an ambulance. But really what had happened

401
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 2: is Greg had actually hit Luke over the back of

402
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Speaker 2: the head with such force that he would have never

403
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Speaker 2: recovered from that fatal blow. And unfortunately, Luke died, and

404
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Speaker 2: I don't go into the detail about that, but he died,

405
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Speaker 2: and his father was shot by police and died later.

406
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Speaker 2: And you know, Greg killed his son as an act

407
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Speaker 2: of revenge and power and control to hurt me and

408
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Speaker 2: make me suffer for the rest of my life. And

409
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 2: I think that journey of having a child together, but

410
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Speaker 2: a long history of violence with Luke's father, who I

411
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Speaker 2: never married and never lived with what had been a

412
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Speaker 2: really tough battle, a very tough battle for me, and

413
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Speaker 2: you know, so ultimately I was I ended up at

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Speaker 2: the police station for the entire night giving evidence and

415
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Speaker 2: things like that. And the next day a lot of

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Speaker 2: the people Luke and I knew friends, family, you know,

417
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Speaker 2: not particularly family or my family, were in the UK,

418
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Speaker 2: maybe realizing they needed to come over. My house was

419
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Speaker 2: full of people that were just in shock and disbelief

420
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Speaker 2: and needing to comfort each other. So they came over

421
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Speaker 2: to my house. And as I kind of came in

422
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 2: and out of kind of awareness, I heard people talking

423
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Speaker 2: about the media outside, and so I made it a

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Speaker 2: decision I hadn't had no agenda. I didn't really understand

425
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Speaker 2: what I was doing and why I was doing it,

426
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Speaker 2: but I went out to speak to the media to

427
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Speaker 2: really to ask them to move away and respect my privacy.

428
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Speaker 2: But I was encouraged to speak and I did actually

429
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Speaker 2: spend quite a bit of time talking to the media,

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Speaker 2: and it seemed to be something that captured everybody at

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Speaker 2: that time, and people were incredulous that I could actually

432
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Speaker 2: put into context what had happened to me. Which was

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Speaker 2: one of the things that I felt was most powerful

434
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Speaker 2: is I said that, you know, family of violence can

435
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,400
Speaker 2: happen to anybody, no matter how nice your house is,

436
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 2: how intelligent you are, and how nice your house is,

437
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 2: and I really wanted to convey that, you know, if

438
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 2: people like me can experience family violence, anyone can. And

439
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 2: it's not just those women because of their culture or

440
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:51,719
Speaker 2: women living in low socioeconomic areas. It's happening not just

441
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 2: across Australia but across the world on levels that you

442
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 2: know are horrifying. And back then, we weren't talking about

443
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 2: family violence. It wasn't making the headlines. It was one

444
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 2: of those societal issues that really didn't get media attention

445
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 2: and didn't. It wasn't something we talked about. It was

446
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 2: as if it was a dirty little secret that we

447
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 2: all somehow knew to keep quiet about it. You know,

448
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 2: it's very difficult to get appropriate police response. Perpetrators just

449
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 2: not made accountable. It's so difficult, and yet it's such

450
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 2: a significant issue that, you know, one woman a week

451
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 2: is being murdered every single week. One in three women

452
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:42,880
Speaker 2: will experience physical violence in their lifetime. And here I was,

453
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 2: you know, someone that was a strong, independent woman, never

454
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 2: known any violence at all through any family members or

455
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 2: anywhere at any time throughout my whole upbringing, and yet

456
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 2: here I was finding myself with this with Luke's father,

457
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 2: somebody that i'd met through work and had been attracted

458
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 2: to and drawn towards, and then found myself in a

459
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 2: dynamic with him where I didn't recognize I was it

460
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 2: was violence because it wasn't initially physical, so I didn't

461
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 2: know anything about violence, So I didn't see it until

462
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 2: I had counseling, and the counselor actually gave me a

463
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 2: handout and showed me the different forms of violence, and

464
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 2: I recognized that I was experiencing all of these except physical,

465
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:39,880
Speaker 2: you know, I thought people would a lot worse soft

466
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 2: than me. And you know, it's very difficult for the

467
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 2: police to be able to do anything, and there's very

468
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 2: little that anyone can do. So you you, you know,

469
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 2: you are subjected to a lot of psychological abuse or

470
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 2: forms with very little avenues of support and help. And

471
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 2: so you do manage learn to manage a lot of

472
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 2: this yourself and have to work out your own strategies

473
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 2: so that you don't go insane or ruin your life.

474
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:12,159
Speaker 2: And you know, at different times were incredibly difficult for me,

475
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 2: and you just have to try and work out, how

476
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 2: can I be the best month for Luke? How am

477
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 2: I going to bring up a little boy that's not

478
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 2: going to repeat the patterns of his father? How am

479
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 2: I going to bring up a little boy that's going

480
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 2: to be well adjusted and happy? And that was my

481
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 2: world to make sure that Luke had every opportunity I

482
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 2: could possibly give him and be a well adjusted young

483
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 2: man that was kind and caring and sensitive and sweet,

484
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 2: you know, And how can I do everything in my

485
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,199
Speaker 2: power so that he was going to be, you know,

486
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 2: a good role model for men. And so that was

487
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 2: my that was what I was really striving to try

488
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 2: and do. And I always wanted Luke to know that

489
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 2: his father loved him, and that his father because he did,

490
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 2: and that, you know, I didn't want him to grow

491
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 2: up wondering about his dad and feeling he'd been abandoned

492
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 2: by his father. So I really encouraged and supported his

493
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 2: relationship with Greg. And in fact, the system expects you

494
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 2: to do that, and an actual fat penalizes you if

495
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 2: you don't do that. And you know, I would have

496
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 2: a different approach now, but I, you know, did what

497
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 2: I thought was the right thing, and I would now

498
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 2: I would do it differently, because you can't be a

499
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 2: good dad if you're a violent and abusive partner. You're

500
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 2: not a good role model to your children if you're

501
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 2: choosing violent behaviors to get control and power, you know,

502
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 2: and so realizing and learning that, you know, Greg had

503
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 2: mental health issues. He was also and because of that

504
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 2: he couldn't hold down a job, and because of that

505
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,239
Speaker 2: he was struggled with hard and homelessness often. You know,

506
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 2: his life was slipping out of control, and ultimately there

507
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 2: is no mental health intervention. And even if you're seeking

508
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 2: mental health support and intervention, it's still a broken system.

509
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 2: But for someone who is struggling with paranoia and delusion

510
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 2: and is blaming, you know, he doesn't see that the

511
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 2: fault is with them and that everybody else is you know,

512
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 2: is conspiring against them. You know, they're not going to

513
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 2: go looking for help. And so you see somebody who gradually,

514
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 2: over years continues to decline. It's quite tragic and it

515
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 2: impacts on many people around them. But violence isn't caused

516
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 2: by mental health, you know, these are still choices that

517
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 2: people do make. So Greg was struggling with mental health issues.

518
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 2: He was also a marijuana addict, but he also chose

519
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 2: to be a violence and abusive man. And I think

520
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 2: that was clear journey for me to try to resolve

521
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 2: all of that and to understand it and through Luke's

522
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 2: Cernal Inquest, to deeply understand the systemic failings that contributed,

523
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 2: didn't cause, but contributed to lack of support for me

524
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 2: and Luke. I felt fortunate in one way that I

525
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: did get to have Luke's Kernal in Quest and how

526
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 2: to enormous support from some amazing people so that I

527
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 2: could deeply understand. I did everything I could. You know,

528
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 2: it wasn't enough, It wasn't what I wish I'd made

529
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 2: different choices, but ultimately I did the best I could,

530
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 2: and so I don't feel racked with guilt and remorse.

531
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 2: I feel you know, it's a horrendous thing to get over,

532
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 2: and it's something that's very, very difficult for people to

533
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 2: know how to support you all what to say, and

534
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 2: it's a journey. I don't think you think you're ever

535
00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 2: going to recover from or you know, you can't visage

536
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 2: you're going to be okay at some point further down

537
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 2: the track, because it's just such a horrible thing to

538
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 2: have to navigate and work out. How are you going

539
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 2: to get through this?

540
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: I think even just from what you've said so far,

541
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: you've already revealed or unveiled why it's not as simple

542
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: as it can seem. When the question is put in

543
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: a way of well, if you face violence in an

544
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: unpleasant situation, why don't you just walk away? There's the

545
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: difficulty in identifying the violence. There are systemic difficulties that

546
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: make support or other forms of intervention a challenge, and

547
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: then there's also the fact that when a child is

548
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: involved as a mother, there is so much more of

549
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: an incentive to stick with a situation to try and

550
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: work through it rather than you know, it's just not

551
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: nearly as simple as a bad situation walk away from it.

552
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 2: It's very complex. It's very difficult when people don't you know,

553
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 2: don't always have for my family support, they don't always

554
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 2: have somewhere they can go. They look at hardship, they

555
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 2: look at homelessness. These are the realities that face many

556
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 2: women and families escaping violence. But the thing I think

557
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 2: that frustrates me more than anything, and we're having this

558
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 2: conversation now, is that people expect women to take the

559
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 2: responsibility to find the solution. And this is what we

560
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 2: have done wrong all the time, and we still do it.

561
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 2: We should be putting pressure on the person choosing violence

562
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 2: to stop being violent. And this is the shift and

563
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 2: the change we are gradually seeing where we're waking up

564
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 2: to the fact that is overwhelmingly men's violence against women,

565
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 2: and it's men's behavior that must change. So when we

566
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 2: look at equality, and this is where you know, unfortunately,

567
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 2: in past generations and where we sit today, we have

568
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 2: entrenched beliefs. We are conditioned to expect that somehow, through

569
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 2: men's entitlement, that women are their possessions, and so these

570
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 2: are the things that I think are those invisible invisible

571
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 2: conditioning where we really have to look within ourselves and say, well,

572
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 2: I don't want my daughter, my granddaughter, my sister, my

573
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 2: niece to experience anything like this. But we all start

574
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 2: off as innocent children, and through our role modeling of

575
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 2: our parents and those that are close to us, we

576
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 2: pick up behaviors. We start to find our space in

577
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 2: the world, and this is where we are now, is

578
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 2: where women are no longer accepting inequality. So you know,

579
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 2: my journey has been continuing to become more aware or

580
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 2: challenge my thinking understand things that have shifted and changed

581
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 2: in my lifetime.

582
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: I would say that that's probably a big part because

583
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: of you and the advocacy that you've been doing and

584
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: how instrumental you've been in things like the Royal Commission

585
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen, which hadn't happened in Victoria before. And

586
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: of course there is still so far to go, but

587
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 1: even just this week, the protests that there have been

588
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 1: and the tagline and language changing from protect our daughters

589
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 1: to educate our sons is a big psychological shift in

590
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: the way that we perceive these issues. And then consequently

591
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,240
Speaker 1: perceive the solution as not just being women carry keys,

592
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 1: carry a knife, don't walk alone like It can't always

593
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: be focused at our changes in behavior around a problem.

594
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: It has to be the source of the problem that

595
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: we address. This is why I think it's so incredible

596
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 1: that you have not been so And I'm sure there

597
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 1: were times where you were consumed by grief, but you

598
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 1: have used your experience and generously shared the trauma and

599
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: the grief and the statistics and the realizations and work

600
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: you've had to do to help other women understand these dynamics,

601
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 1: to help people who have never faced family violence understand

602
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: what others experience, and to help people who might be

603
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 1: experiencing something more easily be able to identify it. So

604
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: I think there's two big things that I'd love to

605
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: understand from sort of your past ten years or so. Firstly,

606
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 1: the advocacy, how far you think we have to go,

607
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: what people can do to help spread awareness and change

608
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: perspectives and the systemic inequalities that still need work. But

609
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 1: also on a personal level, I wouldn't have thought that

610
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 1: I would ever sit down with you to have a

611
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: conversation about joy, but it seems that you have done

612
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 1: enough work and been able to push through what I

613
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 1: can only imagine other darkest moments that anyone has ever experienced,

614
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 1: to find there is still a reason to live, and

615
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: that grief is surmountable and it never leaves you, of course,

616
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: but you can learn to live through what is the

617
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: worst experience anyone could ever If you could dream up

618
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,839
Speaker 1: the worst tragedy in life, it is probably close to

619
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: what you've experienced.

620
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 2: So I think the advocacy, I mean, I know, through

621
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 2: what I've been through, I meet and have met some

622
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 2: amazing people who again have had may not be the

623
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 2: same thing that's happened to them, but through their tragedy

624
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 2: or for their adversity, they've been inspired and felt compelled

625
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 2: to want to make change because they don't want someone

626
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,879
Speaker 2: to go through what they've gone through, and they don't

627
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,240
Speaker 2: want whatever's happened to have been in vain that from

628
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 2: this change is possible. So you know, there are a

629
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 2: number of people that will look at working and plowing

630
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 2: their pain into this. You know, this whatever work it is,

631
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 2: so that time is raising awareness or whatever it may be.

632
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 2: And I think for me, it just gave me the

633
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 2: purpose and meaning. You know that gave me direction, It

634
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 2: gave me purpose, It gave me meaning, It gave me

635
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 2: a reason to get up every day. I felt so

636
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:55,280
Speaker 2: fortunate in the most unfortunate situation, so fortunate that people

637
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 2: were actually wanting to speak to me, they wanted to

638
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 2: listen to me. They were hanging off every word I

639
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 2: was saying, whether it was you know, whether it was

640
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 2: a prime minister, was I was meeting prime ministers, I

641
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 2: was meeting politicians. I was meeting the most influential people

642
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,359
Speaker 2: in this country, and they were listening to me with

643
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 2: desire to make change. And when you think that the

644
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 2: worst thing about experiencing family violences, you were powerless. You

645
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 2: feel so that your voice isn't being heard by anybody,

646
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 2: the police, the courts, even your friends don't sometimes really

647
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 2: know what to do or how to say, what to say.

648
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 2: And then so it's a really lonely and disempowering journey.

649
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 2: And here I am being awarded left, right and center

650
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:48,720
Speaker 2: with these amazing awards. And I felt so confused because

651
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 2: here I was that at any other time in my life,

652
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 2: what a journey. You know. I was flying here and there,

653
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 2: I was visiting remote Aboriginal community. So I was traveling

654
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 2: into regional areas of Australia because I wanted to visit communities,

655
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 2: I wanted to visit women, Aboriginal women, women from different backgrounds.

656
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 2: I wanted to everyone to understand, this is not just

657
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 2: your problem. This is happening to white, privileged, middle class

658
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 2: women like me. We're sharing all of this. This is

659
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 2: not your fault, this is not because you are who

660
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 2: you are. This is across the world and it's people

661
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 2: like me, you and everybody. And that was so powerful,

662
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 2: That was so emotionally connecting. How do you know people

663
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 2: from the biggest country companies in Australia wanting to listen

664
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 2: to me to say what do we need to do?

665
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,720
Speaker 2: You know, if we're a bank and we have sixty

666
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 2: thousand staff and a large proportion, if not half of

667
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 2: that workforce or three quarter civities women, and you're saying

668
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 2: one in three women will be experiencing violence, that must

669
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 2: mean we have a lot of our own workplace that

670
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 2: we need to understand what systems and processes we need

671
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 2: to have internally. And then if we think as a

672
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 2: bank again, we have all our customers and one in

673
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 2: three women they were coming into our branch are going

674
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 2: to be experiences. This is huge and people start and

675
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,399
Speaker 2: when I put it into that context, people started to

676
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 2: recognize they needed to do something, and so they were

677
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 2: rewarding part of my advocacies. You know, when I was Australian,

678
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 2: the year I spoke at over two hundred and fifty

679
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,959
Speaker 2: major events, and the following year I did one hundred

680
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 2: and eighty. And after the third year I stopped counting.

681
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 2: But I did that because of the ripple effect that

682
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 2: can be achieved. I realized through speaking out that people

683
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 2: were telling me I had a gift, that I actually

684
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 2: was good at speaking. So as much as I was

685
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:54,760
Speaker 2: scared shitless when I first started doing it, I spoke

686
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 2: from the heart. I stood up and whatever came out

687
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 2: of my mouth was what came out of I still

688
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 2: very much speak like that now actually, so that is

689
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 2: an amazing experience to feel heard, to feel validated, to

690
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 2: feel that you've made some change. What I didn't realize

691
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 2: is how long change takes. So as I was swept

692
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 2: away with this, I've got to do it now. I've

693
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 2: got to do all of this now. I can't stop.

694
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 2: I can't stop, I can't slow down. This is so important.

695
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:29,919
Speaker 2: I didn't realize that, you know, change takes it's so incremental.

696
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 2: It's really hard to see we've changed at all unless

697
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 2: you look back. And so when I look back at

698
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 2: my childhood, when I look back ten years ago, I

699
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 2: can see the improvements. But when I hear another woman's

700
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 2: being murdered, when I hear of another lead politician has said,

701
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 2: or a prime minister, and I just think, I feel

702
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 2: so frustrated because those in power and who have the

703
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 2: most influence are often the ones that are holding us

704
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 2: back right now. And I do think that the arriving

705
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 2: at joy does not take an overnight journey. You know,

706
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 2: it's moments of joy that you still have. You know,

707
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 2: very soon after Luke died there were still moments where

708
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 2: you could find something humorous. You could still find yourself

709
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 2: laughing about something. But privately, you know, when you put

710
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 2: on a brave face when you're in front of the media,

711
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 2: when people see you, you're putting on a brain face.

712
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 2: I was brought up by everybody around me being very stoic,

713
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 2: very strong, very brave. I knew how to be that.

714
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,399
Speaker 2: But while i'd go home, I'd go to bed every

715
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 2: night and I'd be crying, and I would be without Luke.

716
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,760
Speaker 2: It didn't matter how busy I kept myself every single day,

717
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,240
Speaker 2: I was trying to avoid the reality that I couldn't

718
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 2: bring Luke back. I could not bring him back. And

719
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:57,320
Speaker 2: when I look back, I can see that keeping myself busy,

720
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 2: pouring myself into advocacy on one level, was distracting me

721
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 2: from yet more pain, yet more grief. And I do

722
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 2: believe I was feeling enough pain at that time. I

723
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 2: couldn't bear any more pain or grief. And I think

724
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 2: that you can't avoid it forever. But I think when

725
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 2: you were ready for the next levels about to come,

726
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 2: then they come. And that's what life does to you.

727
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 2: And I, you know, three or four years ago, I

728
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 2: did walk away from the foundation that I'd set up

729
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 2: in Luke's name. It was an incredibly difficult thing for

730
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 2: me to do. I was broken at the time. I

731
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 2: was utterly broken, and it took me six months of

732
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 2: being at home alone, barely able to sleep, and really

733
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 2: affected because that wasn't my plan. You know, really, I

734
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 2: didn't have the professional skills. I didn't understand how to

735
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,799
Speaker 2: set up an organization, so there's so much I was

736
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 2: learning on top of everything else. But At the most,

737
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 2: I was grieving. I was struggling with PTSD. I didn't

738
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 2: know what PTSD looked like. I didn't know yet, never

739
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 2: mind me in it. And you know a lot of

740
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 2: people talk about trauma and PTSD, but they don't know

741
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 2: what it looks like in action. Well, I can tell

742
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 2: you it's not pleasant for people. And when they see

743
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 2: this behavior from you, some people, you know, are judgmental

744
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 2: because they expect you, you know, Rosy Batty, to be

745
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 2: something that they've put on a pedestal. And real people,

746
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:37,439
Speaker 2: real people with emotional intelligence, real people with compassion, real

747
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:41,399
Speaker 2: people with a professional understanding. This woman has had her

748
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 2: son murdered and look at her. She's been launched everywhere.

749
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 2: You know, she's this public name. There was no privacy

750
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 2: for me. Everybody knew who I was, Everybody recognized me

751
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 2: and I for a period of time, I just did

752
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 2: the very best I could. But it was unsustainable and

753
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 2: I realized that, you know, I needed to slow down,

754
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 2: stop and work out what was I going to do.

755
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 2: And I knew the foundation had started to make me

756
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,799
Speaker 2: really unhappy. I couldn't bear the thought of it not

757
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,919
Speaker 2: being there because it was in Luke's name, and yet

758
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 2: I couldn't see a way forward if it was to

759
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 2: do If I was to do it now, it would

760
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:22,840
Speaker 2: be a very different journey.

761
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 1: That's the point, though, If you were to go back

762
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 1: and change everything, you would do it differently. But that's

763
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 1: the point, you would because you learnt from that experience

764
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 1: how to do it differently.

765
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,919
Speaker 2: But you don't necessarily want to learn what you learn

766
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 2: at the time, you know, and so you look back

767
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 2: and you realize the insights and wisdom I now have,

768
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 2: and how I feel. I feel like more like my

769
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:49,479
Speaker 2: old self. I feel like I found myself again. I'm

770
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:54,800
Speaker 2: not consumed every day with pain about Luke. Of course,

771
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:59,240
Speaker 2: I have my sad moments, but I have many gaps

772
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 2: in between where I'm actually enjoyed my life. You know,

773
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,280
Speaker 2: I spent a lot of time really, you know, whether

774
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:11,360
Speaker 2: it's through counseling, whether it's practicing mindfulness and gratitude, whether

775
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:14,720
Speaker 2: it's a combination of all the things I've learned throughout

776
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 2: my life and the influence people have had on me

777
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 2: that really mean so much to me, and the great

778
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 2: friendships that have really been able to back me and

779
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 2: go the distance. But I realized that, you know, twenty

780
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 2: odd years ago. Before I had a lurk, I always

781
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 2: had an ambition for as long as I can remember,

782
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 2: to walk the great walks around the world. And I

783
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:41,439
Speaker 2: did go trekking in Nepal twenty odd years ago, and

784
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 2: so I started this again. And so I know that

785
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 2: a lot of my recovery and the greatest moments of

786
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 2: joy really when I'm walking, doing a lot of walking.

787
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 2: It's physically hard, but you're in a beautiful scenery and

788
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 2: that kind of meditational kind of space you find yourself

789
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 2: in where you're just walking from a to be maybe

790
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:10,399
Speaker 2: twenty five thirty kilometers a day, it's just fabulous. And

791
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 2: so I've been able to you know, when I had Luke,

792
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 2: I was a single mom. I was surviving on centilent

793
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 2: benefits for longer than I ever thought I ever have to.

794
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,439
Speaker 2: I do know how it is just to worry about

795
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 2: keeping a roof over your head and paying the bills.

796
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 2: And now, of course, you know, I have had amazing

797
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 2: opportunities come to me that would never have happened otherwise,

798
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 2: and so that's a very conflicting feeling as well, where

799
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 2: you know, the greatest opportunities have come since losing Luke.

800
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 2: And because of losing Luke and so I know he

801
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 2: would just go for it, mum, you know, And so

802
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 2: I have taken that time to go. You know what.

803
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 2: All the years I had Luke, I did the best

804
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 2: I could, and I wanted him to know his family

805
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 2: in the UK, and we would go over, you know,

806
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 2: once every eighteen months or two years, and he you know,

807
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:10,399
Speaker 2: I took him to Disneyland in Paris, I took him

808
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 2: to the Lego Land in Windsor, and I did as

809
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 2: much as I could in his little life. I wish

810
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 2: there was more I could have done with him, But

811
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 2: now I can do what I want to do. I

812
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 2: can and I still combine it with trips to the UK,

813
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 2: but instead of just going to the UK to see family,

814
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 2: I will tack on another trip, like I met my

815
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,840
Speaker 2: family in Edinburgh and I did the Great, the Great,

816
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 2: a wonderful walk in Scotland. And so I just feel

817
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 2: so fortunate and it has helped me so much. And

818
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 2: I think that now I have more moments of happiness

819
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 2: and I have sadness. That may change in a few

820
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 2: weeks time. I may go through a very melancholic stage again,

821
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,759
Speaker 2: which I did during COVID, But I know I will

822
00:47:56,760 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 2: come through it. I know that those difficult time, that

823
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 2: melancholic time, you know, I know I will come through

824
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 2: that again, and I will come through that and I

825
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 2: will find that good place. So I know that things pass.

826
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: But I think it's incredibly inspiring to hear stories like

827
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: yours because they remind us that we can always come

828
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: back to a point and a purpose and a joy

829
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 1: or a moment of joy, even if those moments are

830
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: years apart in the beginning. And something that's been sort

831
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: of coming into my mind as you've been speaking is

832
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 1: the idea that is common to all of the guests

833
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:34,879
Speaker 1: and stories we've had on this, even though many have

834
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: not been anywhere near as traumatic or grief stricken as yours.

835
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 1: But the common theme is that everything in your life

836
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 1: unravels in chapters. And that includes change. As you mentioned,

837
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,399
Speaker 1: the change as a society that we're experiencing won't happen

838
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: at once, it will happen in chapters. And same with

839
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 1: grief that will unravel in chapters. And well, you.

840
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 2: Know, one of the things that I talk about grief

841
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 2: a lot more, obviously now that I'm kind of an

842
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 2: expert in it, but people don't talk about grief. We

843
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 2: don't grieve well. We expect people to either hide themselves

844
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:11,919
Speaker 2: away and we have an impression of what grief would

845
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 2: look like, and yet we have examples of so many

846
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 2: who actually, you know, people would say I could never

847
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 2: cope with that, I could never do what you've done,

848
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 2: and yet we do. We actually have amazing strength within us.

849
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 2: It's amazing how you can find that within you. But

850
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 2: you know what helps me on recover or find those

851
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:42,880
Speaker 2: moments of joys maybe somebody's you know, different for somebody else.

852
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,720
Speaker 2: But I do think that we struggle to talk about

853
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 2: grief and we struggle to We don't feel comfortable with

854
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 2: people being openly sad, and we feel like we need

855
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 2: to fix it or we need to say something that's

856
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 2: going to pepuline yes. And people used to say to me,

857
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:06,319
Speaker 2: I don't know what to say, she raised, there's nothing

858
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 2: to say, this is just shit, and really what people

859
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 2: they just want you to know that they're there for you,

860
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 2: and that's it. You don't need to say anything, You're

861
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 2: just there. And sometimes by just being there, it's like

862
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 2: satching people in their worst, at their worst, at their angriest,

863
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:26,839
Speaker 2: their saddest that their most frustrated and knowing this is

864
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:29,720
Speaker 2: where they're at and not judging and walking away.

865
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: And that's what I was saying before about chapters, about

866
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,280
Speaker 1: how grief does unravel in chapters, and the needs are

867
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 1: very acute in the in the shock and the trauma

868
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 1: and PTSD phase, but it doesn't end just one day.

869
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 1: But you will go through chapters where you do need

870
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 1: different things and where you have better chapters and worse chapters.

871
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 1: And I think it's similar to what you were mentioning

872
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: about Luke's foundation as well. Another thing that unravels in

873
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 1: chapters is identity. And for some of one of your chapters,

874
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: your whole identity was trauma. But as you grow through it, slowly, slowly,

875
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 1: you find parts of yourself again. And something my mum

876
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: always said to me is, you know your why stays

877
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 1: the same, but your how might have to change. So

878
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 1: if your purpose is Luke's legacy, in one chapter it

879
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:19,360
Speaker 1: was the foundation, in the next chapter, it's maybe not.

880
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:21,840
Speaker 1: And that's okay to go through different phases.

881
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:25,919
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I think what's important is also that I've

882
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,879
Speaker 2: realized is that, as you said, for the first five

883
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:34,240
Speaker 2: years or so, it was very much about advocating, really

884
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:39,919
Speaker 2: pushing public awareness or consuming about family violence. Now it's

885
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:43,160
Speaker 2: it's for me. It's still an evolving journey and what

886
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 2: do I aspire to be able to share and talk about?

887
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 2: And yeah, I think it's difficult when you don't realize

888
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 2: you're being trapped in the trauma of your past and

889
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 2: what people are asking of you to continue to keep

890
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 2: talking about the trauma of your past. And so I

891
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:05,239
Speaker 2: feel that that happens less to me now because I

892
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:09,720
Speaker 2: actually talk about other things, and that can include mental health.

893
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 2: Because I think now that I'm further along the journey,

894
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:17,319
Speaker 2: I can look back at where my mental health was

895
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 2: and the different mental health challenges I had which I

896
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 2: didn't recognize at the time. I just didn't like how

897
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 2: I was acting, well, what I was feeling, what I

898
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 2: was you know sometimes and what I was saying, and

899
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 2: I didn't recognize that it's PTSD. So I can talk

900
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 2: about that now because I think it's a really important

901
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 2: conversation to keep being open and to share. Because there

902
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 2: were many times when people put me on a pedestal

903
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 2: and said, you know, you're this amazing person, and I think, oh, no,

904
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 2: you don't know me. You know this impostor. I'm an impastor.

905
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 2: And so this is why I think, you know that

906
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 2: the campaign I'm currently an ambassador for with lreal it

907
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 2: speaks to me is because I struggle with imposter syndrome enormously,

908
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:06,720
Speaker 2: to the point of, you know, holding myself back so much,

909
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 2: and then by being given a strain of the year,

910
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,959
Speaker 2: it was almost like, oh my god, you know, I'm

911
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 2: never going to be able to do this since so

912
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 2: I pushed through as much as I can these great fears.

913
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 2: But that's that's, you know, that's the reality that you

914
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 2: don't talk. People don't always know the terror behind the

915
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:28,799
Speaker 2: smile as you're thinking, oh my gosh, you know this

916
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,280
Speaker 2: isn't me. I shouldn't be here, I'm not worthy.

917
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:34,360
Speaker 1: And I think that's something wonderful about the chapter of

918
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:36,840
Speaker 1: the journey you are in now, is that your identity

919
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,959
Speaker 1: is no longer fully consumed by grief and trauma. That's right,

920
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 1: and you have been able to communicate with women about

921
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 1: themes that are present in your journey in one form.

922
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 1: But even if we can't necessarily empathize with the exact

923
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 1: situation you were in, we can extract so many important

924
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 1: lessons from that. So as a Loreal ambassador, the latest

925
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 1: campaign that's come out has been around Lorels self Worth

926
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 1: commissioned research into self doubt, which is a major theme

927
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 1: for this podcast, and the statistics are absolutely horrible. Ninety

928
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 1: four percent of Australian women experience low self esteem ninety

929
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 1: four percent, with thirty nine percent of women experiencing it daily.

930
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 1: And that's just a horrid reflection on the pervasiveness of

931
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:26,240
Speaker 1: imposter syndrome and never feeling like we're worthy, let alone

932
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 1: in trauma. Yeah to your identity and think of what

933
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 1: we can achieve when we're confident and supported and feel

934
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:37,720
Speaker 1: worthy of our place on the stage, or our place

935
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: in the office, or our place at the boardroom. But

936
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 1: it's still clearly something we face all the time. So

937
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:46,360
Speaker 1: what has it meant to you to be involved with

938
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,840
Speaker 1: this campaign? And I'm sure many times, in many different forms,

939
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 1: self esteem has been something you've had to work through,

940
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 1: and particularly trying to find your place on a stage

941
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 1: that you never asked for, as well suddenly being thrust

942
00:54:59,120 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 1: into the media.

943
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 2: I think that being part of a campaign like the

944
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 2: Women of Worth it helps reinforce that sometimes you know

945
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 2: that it's really really lovely to be acknowledged publicly, because

946
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 2: it helps reinforce that you still you're still struggling with

947
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 2: who you are, and that you're worth these accolades, all

948
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 2: these awards. But I think that the opportunity to be

949
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:33,239
Speaker 2: able to speak your truth and for that wisdom or

950
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 2: insight to resonate for people, and that honesty and sharing

951
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:41,279
Speaker 2: of your vulnerability and recognizing that you're not alone a

952
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 2: natural fact. These people who thought got it all together

953
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 2: are also sharing their vulnerability, and I think that that's

954
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 2: how you can actually put it aside and go, well, okay, yeah,

955
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 2: got it, but I'm not going to let it hold

956
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 2: me back. I'm not going to let it define me.

957
00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:59,680
Speaker 2: I'm actually going to sit with it and I'm going

958
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 2: to myself and push through it. And then that becomes okay,

959
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 2: that becomes you know, that could becomes okay and comfortable,

960
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 2: and so here again you've forced yourself outside of your

961
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:12,800
Speaker 2: comfort zone. You've learned new skills, you've met new people,

962
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 2: You're doing more than you ever thought you could, and

963
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 2: that's I think how you keep growing. You know. So,

964
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 2: campaigns like this I think have a really strong messaging

965
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:26,400
Speaker 2: and if people can see through my story, through my truth,

966
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:31,919
Speaker 2: through my insights, and they can find more of themselves.

967
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's amazing, isn't it. And I think

968
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 2: it's really encouraging and continues to strengthen me. It gives

969
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:41,719
Speaker 2: me greater strength, That's all I can say. And if

970
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 2: that's a contagious, if that's contagious, I think that has

971
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 2: to be a really good thing.

972
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:48,920
Speaker 1: And I love what you said about self doubt that

973
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 1: it is something that's probably always going to come. It's

974
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 1: like it's a sign that you know. I like it

975
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:56,359
Speaker 1: because it's a sign I'm not complacent. But it's just

976
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 1: a reflex. It's like hitting your elbow and your arm

977
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: moves you do something scary, you experience self doubt. But

978
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:03,320
Speaker 1: then your.

979
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:05,879
Speaker 2: Self dart is when you're doing something that's maybe new,

980
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 2: or something where you're stretching and exploring that it's not familiar,

981
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 2: and so it's all a sign of growth. And so

982
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 2: it's you know, and many of us hold ourselves back

983
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 2: through through fear of failure, looking silly or not wanting

984
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 2: to rock the boat. And sometimes it's just timing too,

985
00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 2: you know, where you may not have been ready some

986
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 2: years ago, but now you really are, and not to

987
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 2: kind of beat yourself up if you didn't, you know,

988
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 2: explore those opportunities five years ago, because here they are

989
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 2: and maybe the timing is just so much better right now. Yeah,

990
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 2: it's a sign of growth. I'm fifty nine.

991
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you don't look at at all.

992
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 2: That's a subruss. But if I can be a role

993
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 2: model to women who are in that, who are more mature,

994
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 2: that you just keep growing and you keep exploring, and

995
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 2: you keep putting yourselves in positions where you didn't think

996
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 2: you could do something or you'd ever be welcomed. That's

997
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:07,440
Speaker 2: to me. I can't see that I'll ever not do that. Actually,

998
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:09,920
Speaker 2: I think that's part of my DNA. But I also

999
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 2: again I talked about my grandmother. You know, she lived

1000
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 2: till she was one hundred, independently in her own home,

1001
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 2: becoming obviously more physically frail, but always had a solution.

1002
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 2: But she couldn't did have the strength to rush of

1003
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 2: potatoes on the kitchen bed. She put them on the

1004
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 2: floor and put a body weight behind it. You know.

1005
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:31,560
Speaker 2: She always adapted and always had interests, always had hobbies.

1006
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 2: She kept to watch quiz shows to keep a brain sharp.

1007
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 2: So she always had an interest and curiosity in life

1008
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 2: and had a great sense of humor. And I think, well,

1009
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 2: I've seen what it can be and how you can

1010
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 2: continue to adapt and continue to test yourself and keep

1011
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 2: moving forward in your life in ways that are age relevant.

1012
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 1: I suppose that was actually my second last question for

1013
00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 1: you and our laugh section, which have come to wrapped

1014
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 1: in this chart. You've just been so fascinating. The last

1015
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 1: section is your playta. You know, how you find joy,

1016
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 1: whether it be in big gestures or small moments. That's

1017
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 1: unrelated to the identity that people often ascribe to you.

1018
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:16,880
Speaker 1: That's not productive, that's not for achieving or advocacy or

1019
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 1: spreading awareness. You know, your grandmother's equivalent of the quiz show,

1020
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 1: or that's like the walks that you go on, you know,

1021
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 1: are their puzzles or board games or any hobbies you

1022
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 1: do that bring you joy.

1023
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:32,240
Speaker 2: I think every single day I get up, no matter rain,

1024
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:35,480
Speaker 2: hail or shine. Almost sometimes if it was really hailing,

1025
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 2: I might not. I walk my dog. I love to

1026
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 2: walk my dogs I have. The only time I don't

1027
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:45,840
Speaker 2: is if I'm traveling somewhere and literally can't do it

1028
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:49,760
Speaker 2: that day. But ultimately, every single day, I've always got

1029
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:52,840
Speaker 2: up early and walked my dogs. And the joy they

1030
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 2: give you through their innocent play, their happy demeanor. You

1031
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 2: can't stay grumpy, you can't stay miserable. You just that

1032
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 2: to me is my sets me up. Every day. You

1033
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 2: get fresh air, you meet other dog dog walker people

1034
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 2: that you get to know and say quick hellos or

1035
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:16,919
Speaker 2: a bit of a longer chat. Yeah. So I think

1036
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 2: that for me has always been what I enjoyed doing.

1037
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,120
Speaker 1: And now you have a puppy, so I imagine it's a

1038
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 1: bit more crazy, but even more enjoyable.

1039
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 2: He was chasing a couple of birds today. It was

1040
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:31,960
Speaker 2: quite funny because he's quite small, so he's not that

1041
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:33,760
Speaker 2: fast yet, but he did. He you had been a

1042
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:34,160
Speaker 2: good go.

1043
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:38,440
Speaker 1: And final question, what is your favorite quote?

1044
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 2: Thinking about that, I guess I don't know whether it's

1045
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:45,200
Speaker 2: my favorite, but it's one that comes back to me constantly,

1046
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 2: which is feel the fear and do it anyway. And

1047
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:52,520
Speaker 2: it was the title of a book by Susan Jeffers.

1048
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 2: I bought it like thirty odd years ago, I bet,

1049
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:58,040
Speaker 2: and had it on my bookshelf. I don't know that

1050
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:01,240
Speaker 2: I read it in its entirety. I just always feel

1051
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:04,920
Speaker 2: that that title says everything I do. I've pushed myself

1052
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 2: through all self doubt and fears, whether it's coming to

1053
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:12,440
Speaker 2: Australia and traveling, whether it's driving around Europe in my

1054
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 2: little old car. I've been terrified of those things, but

1055
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 2: I haven't let it stop me or hold me back.

1056
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:24,520
Speaker 2: That's the thing. I think, feel the fear and do

1057
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 2: it anyway. It's something that speaks to me.

1058
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, Oh, Rosie, I think it speaks about

1059
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 1: you as well. You are definitely one of those people

1060
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:37,200
Speaker 1: who has pushed through more than many people have had

1061
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 1: to deal with in a lifetime. And you might not

1062
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:41,800
Speaker 1: feel like you're on a pedestal, but I'm putting you

1063
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 1: right up there. You are just the embodiment of strength

1064
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:49,960
Speaker 1: and resilience and inspiration honestly for the work that you

1065
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:53,120
Speaker 1: have put back into changing our perceptions on such an

1066
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 1: incredibly important issue and are continuing to create such a

1067
01:01:56,680 --> 01:01:59,600
Speaker 1: wonderful legacy for you and Luke. So thank you so

1068
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:01,200
Speaker 1: so much for joining.

1069
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 2: Thank you, Sarah.

1070
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 1: I don't think there's been an episode where I've asked

1071
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:09,320
Speaker 1: less questions and dropped our usual structure so much I

1072
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:13,760
Speaker 1: was just so fascinated by Rosy's strength, passion, and eloquence.

1073
01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:16,840
Speaker 1: It's so hard to fathom what she has been through

1074
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:20,240
Speaker 1: and how she could ever find yay again. But as

1075
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:23,320
Speaker 1: I always say, I can't ever lead conversations about joy

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Speaker 1: without also acknowledging the sometimes horrific and tragic things that

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Speaker 1: drive people right off their path yeay, but hearing how

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Speaker 1: they fight their way back is more inspiring than ever.

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Speaker 1: If you enjoy the episode, please do share and tag away,

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Speaker 1: particularly to keep raising awareness of how far we still

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Speaker 1: have to go in the fight against family violence. And

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Speaker 1: if you would like any further information or need support yourself,

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Speaker 1: please don't hesitate to reach out. White Ribbon has a

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Speaker 1: fabulous helpline on one eight hundred respect for twenty four

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Speaker 1: hour National Sexual Assault, Family and Domestic Violence Counseling. Please

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Speaker 1: all look out for yourself and each other this week

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Speaker 1: and always. Lots of love to you all,