Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to MoMA Mia out Loud. It's what
Speaker 2: women are actually talking about On Wednesday, the eighteenth of March.
Speaker 2: I'm Holly Wainwright and we have some big news that
Speaker 2: was embargoed until nine am today. Who wants to share it?
Speaker 3: Holly? I kind of think you have to be the
Speaker 3: one to share it. I think you get statistically the
Speaker 3: most credit for it.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, we are, for the second month in a row,
Speaker 2: the most listened to podcast in all of the land.
Speaker 2: In the whole king.
Speaker 4: They have been telling like people who don't need to
Speaker 4: know this fact, this fact Like I was at the
Speaker 4: supermarket and I went into that you know, the line
Speaker 4: where you get to talk to a person versus scanning.
Speaker 1: Like I managed to work it in. I'm Amilia Lasta.
Speaker 1: By the way.
Speaker 3: You may know me from Australia's Number one podcast. It's
Speaker 3: funny because in the office you act very nonchalant about
Speaker 3: it on the number one whatever, I mean number one before.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm not on Fridays, so I feel like I
Speaker 4: can't take full crew.
Speaker 2: Come on now, and who are you?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 2: I'm clos Stephen definitely taking credit.
Speaker 3: I get a little bit of credit now, Yeah, I
Speaker 3: will be rubbing it in Jesse's face saying we're number
Speaker 3: one without you, even though she was on the episodes.
Speaker 3: But whatever, I'll find a way to read.
Speaker 2: The chart comes out once a month, if you wondered
Speaker 2: what we're talking about, the podcast chart, and for the
Speaker 2: second month in a row, we are at number one.
Speaker 2: Sometimes we're number two, sometimes we're number three, but not
Speaker 2: anymore anyway, let's move on. It's not about us, yes,
Speaker 2: n b D. Here is what's on our agenda for today.
Speaker 2: Queen Mary is touring Australia. Yes, the woman wants known
Speaker 2: as Our Mary is coming to Royal Meat and greets
Speaker 2: near you. So why isn't anybody talking about it?
Speaker 4: Plus you're seeing peptides all over your socials, and we
Speaker 4: went to find out what they actually are and why
Speaker 4: the trend of injecting them is really dangerous.
Speaker 3: And why reference man might be making you cold.
Speaker 2: But first, I'm bringing some scoreless gossips. Some of it
Speaker 2: is oscars related, because you know, we're still mopping.
Speaker 3: Up the little bits.
Speaker 2: Of that poor one out for Timothy Challa may As.
Speaker 2: We have talked about a lot on the show. He
Speaker 2: didn't win the oscar on Monday. In fact, he lost it,
Speaker 2: and forty eight hours after the event, we now know
Speaker 2: just how mad he was about the whole I'm not
Speaker 2: going to win the Oscar today thing, because it was
Speaker 2: kind of clear by the time he sat down. The
Speaker 2: reason we know this is because a lip reader has
Speaker 2: translated what he was saying to Kylie Jenna when he
Speaker 2: was sitting in his seat and he was like, his
Speaker 2: leg was jiggling, he was smiling, but he looked.
Speaker 1: Like, oh kill me now.
Speaker 2: And indeed that's what he said, because according to the
Speaker 2: lip reader, he said.
Speaker 1: I hate this.
Speaker 2: Before Kylie Jenna said to him, We're all right, okay,
Speaker 2: and he goes yeah, and she says, I hope.
Speaker 1: So can I ask a questionion about lip readers?
Speaker 4: Where were they like five years ago, because now they're everywhere.
Speaker 1: Did they have jobs five years ago?
Speaker 2: Well, I think they might have had proper jobs five
Speaker 2: years ago. There are all these influencers, so there are
Speaker 2: lots of like non professional lip readers, but there are
Speaker 2: also quite a lot of influencers who make their content
Speaker 2: on TikTok translating what celebrities are saying to each other.
Speaker 2: And it's now become so much of a big deal
Speaker 2: that celebrities and royals in particular are being warned about
Speaker 2: it and being told by their agents that just treat
Speaker 2: the whole world like a hot mic at all times.
Speaker 4: Taylor Swift has famously been doing this for a while now,
Speaker 4: where she just does not talk in public unless she's
Speaker 4: hiding her mouth.
Speaker 3: I am on the side of TikTok that has all
Speaker 3: the lipreaders, so I love that it will be every
Speaker 3: just event with celebrities and a lipreader telling me what
Speaker 3: they're saying. And then other one I get is psyekicks,
Speaker 3: So I feel like I really know a lot. The
Speaker 3: other thing about Timmy that got lip red was his
Speaker 3: sister comes up to him, Pauline and Kylie sitting behind
Speaker 3: him and the lip reader, and you know, the lip
Speaker 3: reader is one hundred percent accurately. Let's just just put that.
Speaker 2: Science says they're thirty to forty anyway.
Speaker 3: Okay, Timothy says to his sister, could you go easy
Speaker 3: on her, referring to Kylie as supposed to, and Pauline
Speaker 3: says okay. Then Timothy reiterates, I want you to go
Speaker 3: easy on.
Speaker 2: Her, because what was she going to do.
Speaker 3: And I believe it so hard because I'm like, that
Speaker 3: is exactly what my brother would say to me if
Speaker 3: he had a girlfriend.
Speaker 2: By then you might be going up to him being like,
Speaker 2: why are you wearing? Yeah, what's with the keyhole? Am
Speaker 2: I supposed to put something in.
Speaker 1: That key hole?
Speaker 2: Royals are in lots of trouble with the lip readers. Recently,
Speaker 2: King Charles was getting into his carriage and apparently that suck.
Speaker 1: Me after his nation.
Speaker 3: Remember the pin Remember his pen that ran out of
Speaker 3: ink and he was really cranky. I don't even think
Speaker 3: that was lip reading. I think you could hear it.
Speaker 3: He's so cranky.
Speaker 2: He's really cranky. But anyway, pour one out for them,
Speaker 2: because they can't even get drunk and have a good
Speaker 2: time anymore without everybody going I can tell what you're saying.
Speaker 2: I need to talk about some actual scrorellous gossip you
Speaker 2: might be seeing around your feeds. That Nicole Kidman, who
Speaker 2: was definitely relaunching at the Oscars, particularly at the Vanity
Speaker 2: Fair party. She looked unbelievable in that yellow dress at
Speaker 2: the Vanity Fair party after the Oscars, and she was
Speaker 2: very main character. I mean, of course, she is, she's thick.
Speaker 4: She photo bombed Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchezos, which I loved.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's like only one of the people in
Speaker 3: this photo should be here star power.
Speaker 2: And the camera just followed her away from Jeff Lawrence.
Speaker 2: Must have been very humbling for them. But anyway, the
Speaker 2: rumors are that she's got a relaunch of another I'm
Speaker 2: going on. You might have seen that she is dating
Speaker 2: our own Simon Baker. Like three people showed this to
Speaker 2: me in the kitchen this morning, showed me an Instagram
Speaker 2: title of her holding hands with Simon Baker on a
Speaker 2: red carpet, and we're going, is this true? Because obviously
Speaker 2: they know that.
Speaker 3: I know you'd know.
Speaker 2: First my close personal friend Nicole Kidman. Woman's Day reports
Speaker 2: they debuted their romance on the scarpeta red carpet and
Speaker 2: it has Nicole's ex husband, Keith Urban.
Speaker 4: Really the tabloid's just like they only flaunt their pins.
Speaker 6: They're looking at it sitting on a stools.
Speaker 2: In terms of whether or not we think this is true,
Speaker 2: they are in a show together at the minute in
Speaker 2: which they play a husband and wife.
Speaker 1: Is this Scarpeader scarpet?
Speaker 2: It's on Prime.
Speaker 4: Have you heard it's yeah, because it's based on the
Speaker 4: Patricia corn Or novels about the forensic psychologists, and I
Speaker 4: love those novels. So I was tracking the reviews closely.
Speaker 2: But are you going to watch it?
Speaker 4: I don't think so.
Speaker 1: The reviews are quite bad.
Speaker 2: That's bad. Anyway. They're in it together, and they were
Speaker 2: at the launch and they're standing next to each other
Speaker 2: in a group of people, and indeed they are holding hands.
Speaker 2: But let's get some context here. A, they're actors. B.
Speaker 2: They've known each other for thirty years. Nicole is the
Speaker 2: godmother of his children. She was Besti's with his ex wife.
Speaker 2: The fact that they are holding hands on a red
Speaker 2: carpet could mean that the popular romantic trope of friends
Speaker 2: to love Us has life, or it could mean that
Speaker 2: they would like to stoke a little bit of rumor
Speaker 2: to get people to watch Keith to reel, get Keith
Speaker 2: to reel, or to get people to watch scarpettit because,
Speaker 2: as Amelia says, the reviewers are not encouraging them to
Speaker 2: or they could just be mates promoting a show.
Speaker 3: Nicole is very I think she's very clever and strategic
Speaker 3: about this stuff. I think she'd be holding Simon Baker's
Speaker 3: hand because she knows it's going to get attention. And
Speaker 3: if I was next to Simon Baker, I'd want to
Speaker 3: hold his hand.
Speaker 4: I have famously talked on the show about the fact
Speaker 4: that he was the most lovely celebrity I've ever met.
Speaker 1: I mean, among the only celebrities I've ever met.
Speaker 3: You met him.
Speaker 1: I met him at a press event.
Speaker 4: He was in the car with me and he introduced
Speaker 4: himself and he said, hello, I'm Simon Baker and put
Speaker 4: his hand up.
Speaker 3: And you said, you don't need to introduce yourself to me.
Speaker 2: He said, if I shake that head, can we hold the.
Speaker 1: He was reeling somewhere. What did the lipretors say? That's
Speaker 1: question true.
Speaker 2: We need to enlist them. I don't think they've been
Speaker 2: on this one.
Speaker 4: Well, look, I want to bring something from the Oscars
Speaker 4: that will make your day. And it's a very short
Speaker 4: clip and it's Ethan Hawk talking to Amelia de Moldenburg
Speaker 4: on the Oscars Red Carpet. No further explanation needed.
Speaker 3: Do you have any advice for someone who also has
Speaker 3: a bit of an unrequited love theme in their life?
Speaker 2: The one who's in love always wins.
Speaker 7: Okay, yeah, it doesn't matter if you get your heart broken.
Speaker 7: You're living when you're when you're feeling, you're alive. You know,
Speaker 7: the sun doesn't care whether the grass appreciates its raise, Right,
Speaker 7: it just keeps unshining.
Speaker 1: I mean actual chills, right, actual chills.
Speaker 3: Sorry, it's the most profound thing, liver, profound like the
Speaker 3: sun doesn't care, It doesn't care. It just like it
Speaker 3: makes me feel so much better about my ears.
Speaker 4: Abounrequired always wins. Mean I am so here for the
Speaker 4: ethan Hawk renaissance. I don't care that he allegedly cheated
Speaker 4: on him with herman, with the nanny who we then married.
Speaker 2: I don't even know if there's an alleged in that
Speaker 2: sentence anymore, but.
Speaker 1: He does deny it.
Speaker 3: Holy, yeah, he's wise. Now.
Speaker 2: I think he's a savior of gen X men, because
Speaker 2: we all know that a lot of gen x heart
Speaker 2: things have not let Johnny. And the thing is is that, yes,
Speaker 2: Ethan Hawk has a few questionable stories in his past,
Speaker 2: but every time he's interviewed, he's real. He drops something wise,
Speaker 2: he's deep sea. He's a bit embarrassing, but he doesn't mind.
Speaker 2: He's aging like a fine, he really is. I think
Speaker 2: he could be, and he kind of has that. He
Speaker 2: has the gen x sort of arty anti establishment he
Speaker 2: thing that was the best of us.
Speaker 4: Did you even know that he writes novels no one
Speaker 4: reads them, but he continues to see them.
Speaker 2: And he makes documentaries about weird shit, and he's Mayahawk's dad.
Speaker 3: I just think he seems like a good dad because
Speaker 3: I like my hook.
Speaker 2: Let's allow him to give us all our wisdom from
Speaker 2: here on in.
Speaker 3: If it sometimes feels like the world just wasn't built
Speaker 3: for you, that's how I feel every single day. You'd
Speaker 3: be right. For example, something that I notice all the
Speaker 3: time is every time I'm on a train, the handholders
Speaker 3: are really high, and even if I can reach it,
Speaker 3: my shirt like rides up, so I'm just exposing my
Speaker 3: belly to everyone on the train.
Speaker 1: Are you not getting offered a seat on the train?
Speaker 3: You're obviously grave and state Okay, I have a whole
Speaker 3: theory about this. People have become too politically correct and
Speaker 3: they don't want to say would.
Speaker 1: So you're not getting it?
Speaker 2: Do not know yet? I don't think I would look
Speaker 2: at you at this moment and go definitely pregnant. I
Speaker 2: would put you in the borderline. I could offend her.
Speaker 2: I offer her the seat category you need to wait
Speaker 2: till really near the end, when no one's going like
Speaker 2: she might hit me.
Speaker 3: And yeah, well anyway, I do have opinions about how
Speaker 3: I wish people would take more consideration. But it turns
Speaker 3: out everything from public transport to cars, to medicines, to
Speaker 3: phones to the temperature of your office was probably designed
Speaker 3: with a specific person in mind. And his name is
Speaker 3: reference Man. He is a white male, twenty five to
Speaker 3: thirty five years old, weighing around seventy kilos and he's
Speaker 3: about one hundred and seventy centimeters tall. In an article
Speaker 3: for ABC titled women are often an afterthought when it
Speaker 3: comes to designing products, Nicole Kharms who is a professor
Speaker 3: in the Department of Design at Monash University and she's
Speaker 3: founding director of the Monash x y X Lab, which
Speaker 3: leads research into gender sensitive design. She tells reporter Amelia
Speaker 3: Moseley reference Man was created in the mid nineteen seventies,
Speaker 3: and he became what I would describe as a kind
Speaker 3: of default or standard human that was the measure for everything.
Speaker 2: I think lots of podcasts have made for reference man.
Speaker 3: I think a lot of.
Speaker 2: I had quite a lot of movies that one. Things
Speaker 2: at the Oscars were also made for reference.
Speaker 3: That's my problem with one battle after another, it was
Speaker 3: the reference man movie. So the problem is that for
Speaker 3: a very long time, women, despite being half the population,
Speaker 3: weren't part of the research studies that informed design. And
Speaker 3: what happened was they'd use men. And I remember learning
Speaker 3: this at UNI. It's also because it would be men
Speaker 3: who were the UNI students who would participate in all
Speaker 3: the studies, but they would then just scale everything down
Speaker 3: thirty or forty percent for women. They were basically saying
Speaker 3: women are just short males, which didn't take into account
Speaker 3: all the differences in women's body shape and bone density
Speaker 3: and body fat and muscle mass and blood pressure and
Speaker 3: resting heart rate and all of that. So here are
Speaker 3: a few of the consequences of reference men that I
Speaker 3: didn't know about. Musical instruments can be more difficult for
Speaker 3: women to play, for example, the flute because they're designed
Speaker 3: for male.
Speaker 2: Hands, big fingers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so women sometimes get a flute and they
Speaker 3: can't like separate their fingers enough for the.
Speaker 2: Whole That's definitely why I can't.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, that's a great excuse for my
Speaker 3: lack of musical skill. Women's clothes will often have no pockets,
Speaker 3: or pockets that are so narrow and small they're almost useless.
Speaker 3: PPE wasn't designed to fit women. Even though women make
Speaker 3: up seventy percent of frontline healthcare workers. Women are up
Speaker 3: to seventy five percent more likely to experience adverse reactions
Speaker 3: to prescription medicines. I reckon, I've had this to be
Speaker 3: a problem. Yes, I reckon, I've had this because they
Speaker 3: give you a dose and they go, oh sorry. We
Speaker 3: should have actually adapted it based on the fact that, like,
Speaker 3: according to this, you're actually half the size of reference man. Anyway,
Speaker 3: in some country, studies show women are more likely to
Speaker 3: be injured in a car crash than men, and air
Speaker 3: conditioning in offices feels really intense to a lot of women,
Speaker 3: except for Holly, which we'll get to.
Speaker 2: I'm turning into reference man. I turn that air cut up.
Speaker 1: I wanted.
Speaker 3: Because it was based on the metabolic activity of a
Speaker 3: forty year old seventy kilo male and women generally have
Speaker 3: lower metabolic rates, which means we generate less heat. Holy
Speaker 3: I'm actually with you on the aircon. I love a
Speaker 3: crispy cold air cold the moment.
Speaker 1: Holly, what other parts of reference?
Speaker 4: Man? Do you think you're going to quiet? You can
Speaker 4: start listening to Carl's podcast. I feel like that's very referenced.
Speaker 2: Yes, what else I could do?
Speaker 1: John Grisham novels, Yes one hundred.
Speaker 2: This is very good advice for me in a moment?
Speaker 1: What is a peptide?
Speaker 4: And why are you suddenly singing them everywhere.
Speaker 2: Out louders? Hey, it's Mia and m Vanam.
Speaker 5: We weren't invited for the Oscars episode where we that
Speaker 5: was really holy. Amelia and Claire did on Monday, so
Speaker 5: we comment did the mics and.
Speaker 2: Did our own Oscars episode.
Speaker 5: But we only wanted to talk about the fashion. Really,
Speaker 5: there was some judgment, but it was done with love,
Speaker 5: I think, and kindness. We not only talked about the
Speaker 5: Oscars Red Carpet but also the Vanity Fair red carpet.
Speaker 5: I had a small rant, but we also did talk
Speaker 5: about our best and worst.
Speaker 2: I'm not quite passionate, sneak peek.
Speaker 5: My worst is all the women who couldn't walk, or
Speaker 5: eat or breathe in their outfits. But there were also
Speaker 5: lots of bests, weren't there so many? So if you
Speaker 5: want to hear us, and you're not already a subscriber,
Speaker 5: there's a link in your show notes and you can
Speaker 5: listen right now. And if you are a subscriber, you've
Speaker 5: probably listened to.
Speaker 2: See you Sam.
Speaker 4: You may have seen this on your social feed recently,
Speaker 4: someone is injecting themselves with something they claim is the fountain.
Speaker 1: Of Youth, which they call a peptide.
Speaker 4: The ABC has reported that kids as young as fourteen
Speaker 4: are ordering what they think are peptides online because of
Speaker 4: reported health benefits. Joe Rogan reference man himself, urged, Matt
Speaker 4: Damon also a reference.
Speaker 2: Man, definitely a reference man.
Speaker 1: Matt Damon and Ben Affleck. He said to them.
Speaker 4: That they should take a so called wolverine peptide on
Speaker 4: his show recently. Joe Rogan. Look, he's not a doctor,
Speaker 4: and neither am I. But we are not here to
Speaker 4: recommend that people do this. Instead, we want to talk
Speaker 4: about what peptides are, why you're seeing them everywhere, and
Speaker 4: why this social media driven trend, because it is very
Speaker 4: much social media driven, why this trend is so dangerous? Okay, FIRS,
Speaker 4: just a tiny bit of science for you. They are
Speaker 4: already peptides in your body. They're already there.
Speaker 1: They are the building blocks of proteins. They do lots
Speaker 1: of different things. They kind of tell the body what
Speaker 1: to do.
Speaker 4: They're in your metabolism, they're in your growth systems, they're
Speaker 4: in your immune system. But the peptides we're talking about
Speaker 4: today are outside of your body, and they are being
Speaker 4: created in labs.
Speaker 2: Some of them are in a really nice looking jar, yes,
Speaker 2: at my favorite beauty shop, which is fine, being sold
Speaker 2: to me by my friend Gwyneth. Yes, is that.
Speaker 4: Okay, I can't speak to those specific ones, but I
Speaker 4: will say that the problem is that there's a whole
Speaker 4: bunch of so called peptides floating around which have not
Speaker 4: been studied, not approved by the TGA, which is the
Speaker 4: Therapeutic Goods Administration which regulates medicines in Australia. It may
Speaker 4: not even be peptides because they're being sold online and
Speaker 4: are not being regulated. And there are lots of people
Speaker 4: on the internet, including our friend Robert F. Kennedy Junior,
Speaker 4: as well as a lot of influencers. There are a
Speaker 4: lot of women talking about this too. They're making wild
Speaker 4: claims about what these peptides can do for you in
Speaker 4: terms of health and well. A stat that blew my
Speaker 4: mind is that the TG says that it took down
Speaker 4: more than thirteen thousand advertisements in the twenty twenty four
Speaker 4: to twenty five financial year online which were including peptide advertisements.
Speaker 1: And the reason they're.
Speaker 4: Online is because none of these are actually approved drugs,
Speaker 4: so they can't be advertised in any form to the
Speaker 4: general public, and experts are pretty unanimous in saying that
Speaker 4: this is extremely dangerous. Before I get into why, I
Speaker 4: want to know, Claire, have you seen this phenomenon online?
Speaker 3: Yes. Luckily I am on the side of the internet
Speaker 3: where the first stuff I saw was people criticizing peptides.
Speaker 3: But then I was like, what are you criticizing? To
Speaker 3: find out more so then I would look at I
Speaker 3: searched it and found some of the influencers who are
Speaker 3: promoting it and was gobsmacked. I just even the idea
Speaker 3: of injecting yourself without having been shown how to do
Speaker 3: that biomedical practitioner.
Speaker 1: I'm not knowing what's in and not.
Speaker 3: Knowing what's in it, and apparently there can be like
Speaker 3: heavy metal. I mean, they can be all sorts of
Speaker 3: things because it's completely unregulated. The other thing that I
Speaker 3: saw was some of the Robert F. Kennedy Junior stuff,
Speaker 3: and I thought, it's very, very fascinating what he is
Speaker 3: apprehensive about injecting versus what he's very means injections. Vaccine, no,
Speaker 3: not crucial for health. Peptides, on the other hand, Oh yes,
Speaker 3: we'll get though.
Speaker 4: And apparently in a lot of these social media posts,
Speaker 4: they point out that the labels on these peptides say
Speaker 4: things like for research purposes only.
Speaker 1: Or not for human use.
Speaker 4: But the TEGA specifically wants people to know that this
Speaker 4: is not some kind of get out of jail free
Speaker 4: card for the people who are producing these peptides or
Speaker 4: so called peptides. It doesn't change the fact that they
Speaker 4: are not approved and should not be used.
Speaker 3: If it says not for human use, why are you
Speaker 3: allowed to sell them to humans? I just don't understand.
Speaker 4: That's a question for reference man, who I'm sure is
Speaker 4: currently thinking about taking them. But the thing is that
Speaker 4: a doctor who's interviewed for the SITNY Morning Herald said
Speaker 4: that best case scenario, you're injecting water. If you're doing this,
Speaker 4: worst case scenario. You're injecting heavy metals and contaminants, which
Speaker 4: doesn't sound good to me, and there's a risk of cancer,
Speaker 4: of lethal hypothermia, and a lot of risks we don't
Speaker 4: even know about because again we do not know what
Speaker 4: people are injecting. Holly, have you seen the marketing around this?
Speaker 4: And why do you think people are being seduced by
Speaker 4: this incredibly unsafe trend.
Speaker 2: It's cottage cheese. So this exists in my world. This
Speaker 2: exists in the overlapping Venn diagram of midlife women and
Speaker 2: teenage boys, just like cottage cheese and creatinine.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 2: So I'm seeing fancy ladies on the internet doing it
Speaker 2: as part of their morning routine. American fancy ladies on
Speaker 2: the internet like giving themselves little jab And then I
Speaker 2: know teenage boy moms who the boys are trading this
Speaker 2: stuff at the gym? Really so gym's at the moment,
Speaker 2: it's very like teenage boys in general. There is a
Speaker 2: massive gin trend huge like muscles are in. Weightlifting is
Speaker 2: in again overlapping with the middle aged ladies. We're like
Speaker 2: weight train, weight training, forget the cardio. It's same for
Speaker 2: teenage boys. A lot of pressure about that, right. The
Speaker 2: people I know who are most concerned about this are
Speaker 2: actually mothers of teenage boys who are as young as
Speaker 2: the thing said, in their early teens, who are legally
Speaker 2: buying it online, and they're worried about what they might
Speaker 2: be injecting. It's interesting because these are very different fears
Speaker 2: to what my mother might have been worried about what
Speaker 2: I was injecting in my teenage.
Speaker 1: But it is.
Speaker 2: It's real. It's definitely real, and it's sort of everywhere
Speaker 2: and scary. But it is interesting that it these things
Speaker 2: just pop up and suddenly every woman of a certain
Speaker 2: age is saying peptide, peptide, peptide, and every teenage boy
Speaker 2: is saying peptide peptide, And you're like.
Speaker 1: Where did that come from all?
Speaker 4: And I think what's so pernicious about it is that,
Speaker 4: as we've talked about, there are peptides already out there
Speaker 4: in drugs that are approved for prescription use and also
Speaker 4: in things like skincare, and they're also in our body.
Speaker 4: So there's a sense that like, maybe this is a
Speaker 4: bit of a gray area, but it's not a gray
Speaker 4: area because the ones that people are injecting are not
Speaker 4: approved or safe for human use.
Speaker 3: They're kind of leveraging the efficacy of those drugs to
Speaker 3: suggest that all of these unregulated ones will be just
Speaker 3: as effective. The thing that I mean, I just am
Speaker 3: overwhelmed by is the scale of marketing on social media
Speaker 3: and the tone of it. So they're called they call
Speaker 3: them stacks, and it's like there'll be a glow stack
Speaker 3: and as you say, a wolverine stack, and all those
Speaker 3: things are so it's like it's appealing to like our
Speaker 3: base instincts of what we want. And the glowpack there's
Speaker 3: one that like is meant to make you, like, does
Speaker 3: something with melanin makes your skin darker? It's good for
Speaker 3: skin and your hair growth and all of that. Apparently
Speaker 3: there's no scientific evidence, but that's what it is, marketed
Speaker 3: as some kind of biohack. And you just think, so
Speaker 3: these people are talking like that about something for which
Speaker 3: there is no clinical approval for their use. But I
Speaker 3: was like, imagine if people did that about something that
Speaker 3: there was clinical approval for, like antidepressant. Can you imagine
Speaker 3: being like these will make you hot and happy? Like
Speaker 3: it would just be completely bizarre because that's not how
Speaker 3: you talk about health products, right, right, The thing is.
Speaker 2: Most of us have no idea. Most people have no
Speaker 2: idea about the science of any of this stuff. I
Speaker 2: don't freely admit that a lot of the expensive skin
Speaker 2: care that I am easily seduced into buying, I have
Speaker 2: no idea what it does, no idea at all. So
Speaker 2: the thing is is that when that takes this step
Speaker 2: into invasive, intravenous or whatever, it is, like, I totally
Speaker 2: understand why people are just like, she looks great, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, like or he looks stacked, like it just
Speaker 2: is so so you know, we're kind of just very
Speaker 2: easily seduced.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Look, if you are curious about peptides or think you
Speaker 4: want to explore them, we've been asked to emphasize that
Speaker 4: you really need to talk to a doctor about it.
Speaker 3: After the break, we used to be obsessed with this
Speaker 3: royal couple, but now they're in Australia and no one
Speaker 3: seems to care. There are some royals who seem to
Speaker 3: really capture the public imagination, and some of those aren't
Speaker 3: even royals anymore. But I remember when Harry and Meghan
Speaker 3: visited Australia in twenty eighteen, and every new site was
Speaker 3: wall to wall with stories about exactly what they were
Speaker 3: doing at any given moment.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think you've mentioned it on this podcast
Speaker 4: as much as I've mentioned my Simon Baker and Trader.
Speaker 3: I know, I know I was really driving.
Speaker 1: Moment in your life. I really was.
Speaker 3: But right now there's a high profile royal couple in
Speaker 3: our own backyard and there's just not that much of
Speaker 3: a fuss. Queen Mary and King Frederick of Denmark were
Speaker 3: in Central Australia over the weekend before traveling to Canberra
Speaker 3: and Melbourne. In Melbourne, they're on day two of their
Speaker 3: royal engagements, focused largely on renewable energy and sustainable development.
Speaker 3: Well found mistake very important doing something worthy. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3: When Queen Mary, who was then known as Mary Donaldson,
Speaker 3: met Frederick, the Crown Prince of Denmark at the Slip
Speaker 3: Inn in Sydney during the two thousand Olympics, it was
Speaker 3: our very favorite story that ever happened. It was they
Speaker 3: had a long distance relationship and then the following year
Speaker 3: Mary moved to Denmark. They were engaged, then they were
Speaker 3: married in two thousand and four and we had our
Speaker 3: very own Australian fairy tale. Remember, there was like the
Speaker 3: was it a television series or a television movie?
Speaker 2: There was a movie.
Speaker 3: I think it was a movie.
Speaker 4: Also the fact that they met at the Sydney Olympics.
Speaker 4: For anyone who was lucky enough to be in Sydney
Speaker 4: during those two weeks, I think it was the greatest
Speaker 4: two weeks of human civilization.
Speaker 1: And it was so it felt right that there was
Speaker 1: this serendipitous love story to come out of.
Speaker 3: It, and it was very It could have been made.
Speaker 2: Oh and it was there's something very sex in the
Speaker 2: city about everyone's like real estate agent just having cocktails
Speaker 2: with her girls, like oh, handsome prints, like it's very
Speaker 2: it was we ate that up with the sting.
Speaker 3: Think about I can't count the amount of bad Netflix
Speaker 3: movies I've watched that are based on that premise. It's like,
Speaker 3: isn't there.
Speaker 4: Also like an Anne Halfaway movie about almost exactly the.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was that movie. Like Fred would have
Speaker 2: pretended he wasn't a Danish prince for it. It would
Speaker 2: have just been like, hey, I really like boats that
Speaker 2: by Jumper. That's not what happened. When I was working
Speaker 2: in gossip Mags, she was it. We would stay up
Speaker 2: all night to cover whatever she was doing. Everyone was
Speaker 2: always trying to get to her friends, her exes like
Speaker 2: she was it.
Speaker 3: It was just this classic story of a girl from
Speaker 3: Tasmania marrying a prince, which just isn't meant to happen.
Speaker 3: That's why we loved it so much. Now they have
Speaker 3: four children, and in twenty twenty four, Mary became the
Speaker 3: first Australian born queen consort of any country after the
Speaker 3: abdication of her mother in law. So why aren't we
Speaker 3: following their every move in Australia? Why aren't they ever
Speaker 3: in the headlines? Why aren't I lining up at the
Speaker 3: opera house to see her?
Speaker 2: Why aren't you?
Speaker 3: I have a theory, But first, Holly, what's yours?
Speaker 2: I have a theory. My theory is it's about age.
Speaker 2: Like Mary is now a middle aged mother. Nobody likes those.
Speaker 2: She has four children, she's married, she's fifty ish. I
Speaker 2: think she's fifty four. Maybe she's not interesting anymore because
Speaker 2: that's the way.
Speaker 1: About okay, and she's got three.
Speaker 2: I think this is interesting because I think that one
Speaker 2: of the things about and I want to be clear
Speaker 2: to the people is we are not being me. We're
Speaker 2: not saying nobody cares about Mary's She's boring. I'm like,
Speaker 2: we're examining why why the interest wanes? And I think
Speaker 2: there is a tale here about if you can wait
Speaker 2: out the mania, you know, a sort of Megan Kate
Speaker 2: Carolyn Bissett, Not that she was ever able to do that,
Speaker 2: but if you can wait out the mania, when you
Speaker 2: become a middle aged woman, nobody's going to want to
Speaker 2: look at you anymore. I just I think it's sort
Speaker 2: of sad but true. Also I think that they are
Speaker 2: We talk about this quite often, is that the Danes
Speaker 2: have a very different model of monarchy than the UK royals,
Speaker 2: and it seems to be generally a healthy one that
Speaker 2: people like. So in Denmark their approval ratings are generally
Speaker 2: in the late eighties early nineties, which is huge. Like
Speaker 2: King Charles, who's popular Ish is very lucky if he's
Speaker 2: getting around sixty percent in any kind of poll. And
Speaker 2: it's because the Danish royals are seen as being more
Speaker 2: down to earth, less privileged. In some ways, they're famously
Speaker 2: called the bicycle Royals because you might actually see one
Speaker 2: out and about and I think that all of that
Speaker 2: is really good and healthy, but it isn't as exciting.
Speaker 3: Do you think it's also because when they got together
Speaker 3: and there was all the digging around, there was no
Speaker 3: there there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was about to ask you about that, Holly,
Speaker 4: do you feel like when she was it, when you
Speaker 4: were working in women's mags, do you feel like you
Speaker 4: ever got like kind of the dirt.
Speaker 2: So there were rumors, right, there were rumors at the time,
Speaker 2: and I'm not proud of any of this, but like
Speaker 2: Mary Donaldson was, I'm going to get this wrong, but
Speaker 2: she would have been early thirties, late twenties, so she'd
Speaker 2: like been dating like a proper woman for a while,
Speaker 2: and the journos of the gossip mags of the day
Speaker 2: were digging hard, and they were all kinds of rumors
Speaker 2: she used to date an AFL player, for example. There
Speaker 2: were all kinds of rumors that, like all the images
Speaker 2: from those times mysteriously disappeared from a hard drive, and
Speaker 2: you know, like that there was almost a conspiracy to
Speaker 2: clean up any backstory. She had some friends who were
Speaker 2: in the media, you know, Sydney people around town, and
Speaker 2: we used to try very hard to court them for gossip,
Speaker 2: but they were quite tight lipped. So I think that
Speaker 2: a she was a pretty normal and inverted commace person.
Speaker 2: But also there was a very effective and it was
Speaker 2: a simpler time in terms of what in terms of
Speaker 2: what you could dig up, no social media footprint, all
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. There was quite an effective whitewashing
Speaker 2: of any problematic possibilities, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: So I think that all of that spoke to its time.
Speaker 2: But there's just no question I think that glamorous young
Speaker 2: women are more interesting. Like I was thinking about this,
Speaker 2: I was looking at Mary's social media following, for example,
Speaker 2: and she doesn't caught it. She's not playing in the
Speaker 2: attention economy. So this is all good for Mary, right,
Speaker 2: She's getting worthy headlines about environmental issues, not endless speculation
Speaker 2: about every little bit of what she does. But she
Speaker 2: has about one hundred and twenty three thousand followers on Instagram.
Speaker 2: Now that is not shabby, but that is not stratospheric.
Speaker 2: Let's remember that Kylie Jenner, for example, has three hundred
Speaker 2: and ninety million followers on Instagram, and Megan even has
Speaker 2: four and a half million, and she, as you say,
Speaker 2: isn't royal anymore. Because they are playing in the attention
Speaker 2: economy and Mary isn't to be clear, like Mary is
Speaker 2: a gorgeous, glamorous princess, but she's just not as catnip
Speaker 2: to the social media crowd as she would be if
Speaker 2: she was a twenty nine year old.
Speaker 3: And I think she's good evidence that, to some extent,
Speaker 3: you can avoid all the speculation and all the media
Speaker 3: obsession if you keep your head down and just keep
Speaker 3: doing your job.
Speaker 4: But how does this fit with the fact that there
Speaker 4: was a scandal not involving her directly, but involving her
Speaker 4: husband relatively recently.
Speaker 3: Because I think for me, and I hate to say this,
Speaker 3: but I do think my fairy tale bubble got popped
Speaker 3: a little bit when the rumors started about how Frederick
Speaker 3: had cheated, because for me it.
Speaker 2: Was allegedly has always denied it, and the woman in
Speaker 2: question sued yes.
Speaker 3: But I think I had this idea that their love
Speaker 3: story was so uncomplicated and so beautiful that I know
Speaker 3: I really did. I was like, they're superhuman. And in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, rumors started to circulate that he had
Speaker 3: an affair with a Mexican socialite and there were photos
Speaker 3: of them together in Spain. For some reason, this story
Speaker 3: really stuck with me and blew up in my head.
Speaker 3: And when I went back and looked at it, the
Speaker 3: photos are so innocent, like there really was no smoking gun.
Speaker 3: But I really became attached do it, and I really
Speaker 3: lost hope. I thought, maybe no one's really about happy?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but where But since when there's a whiff of
Speaker 2: achieving scandal ever made people less interested in right? Like
Speaker 2: normally that ramps up the entry. Everyone would be like,
Speaker 2: let's read the body language.
Speaker 4: Let's see if no one's slip reading them, even though
Speaker 4: there was this marriage scandal, And that's really interesting.
Speaker 3: And is it simply that you can choose to not
Speaker 3: be in the headlines because she didn't. Mary didn't engage,
Speaker 3: Like if she had gone out and made some big
Speaker 3: statement about it, or if they had made I don't know,
Speaker 3: a bit more of a fuss about the whole story,
Speaker 3: perhaps it would have become this fixture.
Speaker 4: I do think that we have to give Mary some
Speaker 4: credit for this, because the discipline it must have taken
Speaker 4: her to be in the public eye for more than
Speaker 4: two decades and to basically have never said anything that
Speaker 4: blew up is extraordinary.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 3: And to have your kids not do anything that has
Speaker 3: particularly blown up and I wouldn't know what her kids
Speaker 3: look like.
Speaker 2: Really, yeah, I'm afraid I would, but that's because of
Speaker 2: my background. I think that all of that is true.
Speaker 2: But I think in terms of the does it show
Speaker 2: that you can avoid the headlines? I think, as I
Speaker 2: said before, I think the Danish royal family are a
Speaker 2: different kettle of fish because Kate Middleton, well what do
Speaker 2: we call a princess? Catherine has tried that. Remember she
Speaker 2: tried that with the whole photo scandal, the whole unedifying
Speaker 2: obsession with where she was for a while that ended
Speaker 2: up being that she had really serious health problems. She
Speaker 2: tried never complained, never explained, which has always been the
Speaker 2: British royal family's mantra, and it didn't work under the
Speaker 2: pressure of the attention economy. Whereas Mary and Fred, as
Speaker 2: you say, they rode out those rumors and everyone was
Speaker 2: obsessed with it for a minute, but they've disappeared. They're
Speaker 2: barely mentioned now. There is something really interesting in that,
Speaker 2: maybe you can chew sort of. I think most people
Speaker 2: respect her a lot and admire her in terms of
Speaker 2: going what a woman. As you said, Amelia, she's really
Speaker 2: carried herself so well. But you don't get the frenzy
Speaker 2: and that's probably really great. Or you're a bit more
Speaker 2: complicated and a bit more out there and you're getting
Speaker 2: that you're courting the press all the time and your
Speaker 2: life's a bit miserable.
Speaker 4: She's looking amazing in her a Kubra's and Zimmerman on
Speaker 4: this trip.
Speaker 2: I know she was kicking a football at the MCG today,
Speaker 2: which is exactly that's peak royal tour. That's exactly the
Speaker 2: kind of stuff you have to do. And her kick
Speaker 2: was freaking great.
Speaker 1: Of course it was.
Speaker 3: Can I say the idea of looking at Mary now
Speaker 3: and seeing that she is doing this too, She's talking
Speaker 3: about something really important and there's not all the because
Speaker 3: you could see it as distraction that all the other
Speaker 3: stuff is like, it's not actually courting attention that any
Speaker 3: of them want. No, I'm finding that the older I get,
Speaker 3: the more I enjoy and am looking forward to becoming
Speaker 3: more and more invisible.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, No, To be clear, in the conversations that
Speaker 2: midlife women have about invisibility, it's a double edged sword.
Speaker 2: There is a lot that is so great. I look
Speaker 2: at my teenage daughter. I've talked about this a lot.
Speaker 2: There is a lot that is so great at having
Speaker 2: the eyes of the world turn away from you. Like,
Speaker 2: there's a lot that's kind of sad about it, but
Speaker 2: there's also a lot that's incredibly freeing. I'm not suggesting
Speaker 2: that Mary is sad that she isn't being papped at
Speaker 2: every turn anymore. You know that she isn't being stalked
Speaker 2: and her friends are being harassed. I bet she's delighted
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 3: I think there is so much power in that. I
Speaker 3: was at a comedy show recently and a bunch of
Speaker 3: comedians and one of them who got up is an
Speaker 3: Aussie comedian who's in her sixties, and she got up
Speaker 3: and I went, you are the most powerful person in
Speaker 3: this room because you don't that. Her whole energy was
Speaker 3: I don't have to impress you. I'm beyond that. I'm
Speaker 3: beyond being judged by you. And I think as a woman,
Speaker 3: it's a really, really exciting place to be and you
Speaker 3: probably get to explore a whole lot of things and
Speaker 3: passions and possibilities that you've wanted to and may have
Speaker 3: been distracted from.
Speaker 2: Look, that's a nice way of looking at it, to
Speaker 2: think of it.
Speaker 4: No one's told me to smile recently. Yes, it's not
Speaker 4: because I'm smiling.
Speaker 3: Smiling, No, it's because they're like, we don't care. I
Speaker 3: think you do have a point, Holly, that it's sort
Speaker 3: of also that Denmark is a bit of a not
Speaker 3: a boring country, but it seems to like have its
Speaker 3: shit together politically a little bit. So I think the
Speaker 3: British royal family, like Megan being the American connection, all
Speaker 3: of that, really we kind of maybe apply all the
Speaker 3: drama of those countries to those people, whereas for Mary
Speaker 3: and Frederick it's very much it's just not as much.
Speaker 4: No, they're just enjoying their four years of parentally yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4: Also to learn the language, this notoriously complicated language where
Speaker 4: there are like lines through O's to the point where
Speaker 4: she's talking English with a Danish accent. I mean, I
Speaker 4: can't romantic.
Speaker 1: I think that's impressive.
Speaker 2: My theory that nobody's interested in middle aged women, which
Speaker 2: obviously is a self deprecating theory from where I sit,
Speaker 2: and I hope it isn't true, And there is one
Speaker 2: sign that in fact it is not in the least
Speaker 2: bit true. Well, one is that we're obsessed with looking
Speaker 2: at them on the red carpet and trying to decide
Speaker 2: what they've done to their faces obviously.
Speaker 3: Is another sign. Is another sign that this is the
Speaker 3: number one podcast in the country and.
Speaker 2: One of us is old. But also Shonda Rhimes, the
Speaker 2: queen of TV and of knowing what people want to watch.
Speaker 2: She is obviously the brain's behind grays Anadoamy. She is
Speaker 2: Bridgiton brain. Says that if there's going to be another
Speaker 2: spin off, because you know, she did a Queen Charlotte
Speaker 2: spinoff from Bridgton, I never watched.
Speaker 3: Oh no, it was really good because it was like
Speaker 3: loosely historical, like it made me google, like was that
Speaker 3: guy crazy? And I really liked the young actress and
Speaker 3: the old actor. Yeah. No, it was really good.
Speaker 2: So that went like into the backstory of Queen Charlotte.
Speaker 5: Correct.
Speaker 2: She says that if she does do another, it will
Speaker 2: be about Violet, like Lady Bridgeton, who's the mum character
Speaker 2: in that. And one of the things that people have
Speaker 2: really liked about the most recent series of Bridgeton is
Speaker 2: that instead of just being the stressy one who's always
Speaker 2: trying to find people for her children to marry, which
Speaker 2: is the point of the show, she fell in love.
Speaker 2: I guess we would call it. I'm definitely in lust
Speaker 2: with a very handsome man and was having quite a
Speaker 2: lot of sex, and people really liked it. And obviously Shonda,
Speaker 2: who is no fool, is like, that's where we go next.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I just Violet. I'm a horrible, horrible person. But I
Speaker 3: just don't think i'd watch that.
Speaker 1: You know what.
Speaker 2: It's just occurred to me. They probably would go into
Speaker 2: her backstory, wouldn't they. It would probably be a young Violet.
Speaker 3: She really loved her husband, didn't she?
Speaker 2: She really did, and they had twenty five children together.
Speaker 2: But it's interesting because when you say I wouldn't watch that,
Speaker 2: I know what you mean. But do you think we
Speaker 2: genuinely are a bit programmed to not be interested in
Speaker 2: the love lives of middle aged people?
Speaker 1: Well, big little lies would beg to different. That's true.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's horribly true.
Speaker 3: The horrible thing to consider is do we care about
Speaker 3: the love lives of middle aged people when they look
Speaker 3: like young people? Do you know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 3: big little lies, you've got.
Speaker 1: I do think they have to be rich. I think
Speaker 1: that's important.
Speaker 3: That's important because I'm also thinking there was that mum
Speaker 3: like she was maybe in her forties, bloody gorgeous, and
Speaker 3: there was an Aussie guy it's called sex something.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah who lived downstairs.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, everybody's saying that midlife sex is getting a big
Speaker 2: comeback after all fours and all those things. There are
Speaker 2: lots of books about it, but I still think there's
Speaker 2: a difference between a book and TV. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I would love to think that we are getting better
Speaker 2: at confronting our own ageism about whether or not we're
Speaker 2: interested in whether or not fifty something women are having
Speaker 2: sex and having excited relationships. Back kind of feel like
Speaker 2: we're probably.
Speaker 1: Not holy one thing.
Speaker 4: I think you're onto something with this theory, But I
Speaker 4: still don't get how it fits with Kate, because Princess
Speaker 4: Kate has three children, she's well into her forties at
Speaker 4: this point, and we're all still indisputably obsessed with her.
Speaker 4: So how do you square that circle?
Speaker 2: Do you think we are? Though? We were obsessed with
Speaker 2: the story of when she you know, when she disappeared,
Speaker 2: in what had happened, and obviously with her health journey,
Speaker 2: and I think that that has also made people much
Speaker 2: more sympathetic to her or most But do we look
Speaker 2: at her as an icon?
Speaker 6: Do we?
Speaker 3: I think so and I am.
Speaker 2: And if they came, would we be lining the street?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: They are categorically more popular than Charles and Camilla, and
Speaker 2: more popular than Harry and Meggs.
Speaker 3: And arguably, arguably when William becomes king, arguably more influential
Speaker 3: in our lives. But I have never cared as much
Speaker 3: about anything as when William allegedly cheated with Rose. Like
Speaker 3: I cared, so I was like, don't do that to
Speaker 3: my Kate.
Speaker 2: Isn't that just a cheating story?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, look you well you might well be onto something there,
Speaker 2: because I think people are obsessed with her, But I yeah,
Speaker 2: I just I don't see her as quite as grown
Speaker 2: up yet.
Speaker 4: Look, we may not be as interested in Mary as
Speaker 4: we once were, but I have a sneaky Wednesday recommendation
Speaker 4: to end the show today, which is the book Air
Speaker 4: Apparent by Rebecca Armatage.
Speaker 2: I've seen it every I'm interviewing her soon.
Speaker 1: It is a I read.
Speaker 4: It on a plane, and I feel like books you
Speaker 4: read on a plane, there's a really high bar because
Speaker 4: you've got like all this terrible TV to watch and
Speaker 4: you're just not concentrating. I read the whole thing on
Speaker 4: a plane. She's a former ABC journalist who clearly knows
Speaker 4: all there is to know about the history of the
Speaker 4: British royal family. And what happens in the story is
Speaker 4: that a Tasmanian girl marries into the British royal family.
Speaker 4: It's very clearly based on Harry and William, but with
Speaker 4: this Aussie twist, and it's just a tremendous look at
Speaker 4: what it's like to be inside a royal family.
Speaker 3: See Mary's still inspiring us the fairy Tale.
Speaker 2: The fairy Tale Lives on out Louders thank you for
Speaker 2: making us the number one podcast in the country. We
Speaker 2: appreciate you so much. And we've got a little treat
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Speaker 2: Bye Bye Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of the
Speaker 2: land on which we've recorded this podcast.