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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to MoMA Mia out Loud. It's what

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Speaker 2: women are actually talking about On Wednesday, the eighteenth of March.

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Speaker 2: I'm Holly Wainwright and we have some big news that

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Speaker 2: was embargoed until nine am today. Who wants to share it?

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Speaker 3: Holly? I kind of think you have to be the

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Speaker 3: one to share it. I think you get statistically the

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Speaker 3: most credit for it.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, we are, for the second month in a row,

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Speaker 2: the most listened to podcast in all of the land.

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Speaker 2: In the whole king.

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Speaker 4: They have been telling like people who don't need to

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Speaker 4: know this fact, this fact Like I was at the

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Speaker 4: supermarket and I went into that you know, the line

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Speaker 4: where you get to talk to a person versus scanning.

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Speaker 1: Like I managed to work it in. I'm Amilia Lasta.

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Speaker 1: By the way.

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Speaker 3: You may know me from Australia's Number one podcast. It's

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Speaker 3: funny because in the office you act very nonchalant about

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Speaker 3: it on the number one whatever, I mean number one before.

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Speaker 4: Well, I'm not on Fridays, so I feel like I

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Speaker 4: can't take full crew.

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Speaker 2: Come on now, and who are you?

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Speaker 5: Oh?

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Speaker 2: I'm clos Stephen definitely taking credit.

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Speaker 3: I get a little bit of credit now, Yeah, I

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Speaker 3: will be rubbing it in Jesse's face saying we're number

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Speaker 3: one without you, even though she was on the episodes.

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Speaker 3: But whatever, I'll find a way to read.

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Speaker 2: The chart comes out once a month, if you wondered

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Speaker 2: what we're talking about, the podcast chart, and for the

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Speaker 2: second month in a row, we are at number one.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes we're number two, sometimes we're number three, but not

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Speaker 2: anymore anyway, let's move on. It's not about us, yes,

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Speaker 2: n b D. Here is what's on our agenda for today.

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Speaker 2: Queen Mary is touring Australia. Yes, the woman wants known

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Speaker 2: as Our Mary is coming to Royal Meat and greets

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Speaker 2: near you. So why isn't anybody talking about it?

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Speaker 4: Plus you're seeing peptides all over your socials, and we

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Speaker 4: went to find out what they actually are and why

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Speaker 4: the trend of injecting them is really dangerous.

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Speaker 3: And why reference man might be making you cold.

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Speaker 2: But first, I'm bringing some scoreless gossips. Some of it

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Speaker 2: is oscars related, because you know, we're still mopping.

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Speaker 3: Up the little bits.

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Speaker 2: Of that poor one out for Timothy Challa may As.

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Speaker 2: We have talked about a lot on the show. He

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Speaker 2: didn't win the oscar on Monday. In fact, he lost it,

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Speaker 2: and forty eight hours after the event, we now know

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Speaker 2: just how mad he was about the whole I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to win the Oscar today thing, because it was

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Speaker 2: kind of clear by the time he sat down. The

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Speaker 2: reason we know this is because a lip reader has

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Speaker 2: translated what he was saying to Kylie Jenna when he

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Speaker 2: was sitting in his seat and he was like, his

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Speaker 2: leg was jiggling, he was smiling, but he looked.

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Speaker 1: Like, oh kill me now.

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Speaker 2: And indeed that's what he said, because according to the

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Speaker 2: lip reader, he said.

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Speaker 1: I hate this.

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Speaker 2: Before Kylie Jenna said to him, We're all right, okay,

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Speaker 2: and he goes yeah, and she says, I hope.

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Speaker 1: So can I ask a questionion about lip readers?

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Speaker 4: Where were they like five years ago, because now they're everywhere.

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Speaker 1: Did they have jobs five years ago?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think they might have had proper jobs five

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Speaker 2: years ago. There are all these influencers, so there are

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Speaker 2: lots of like non professional lip readers, but there are

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Speaker 2: also quite a lot of influencers who make their content

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Speaker 2: on TikTok translating what celebrities are saying to each other.

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Speaker 2: And it's now become so much of a big deal

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Speaker 2: that celebrities and royals in particular are being warned about

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Speaker 2: it and being told by their agents that just treat

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Speaker 2: the whole world like a hot mic at all times.

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Speaker 4: Taylor Swift has famously been doing this for a while now,

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Speaker 4: where she just does not talk in public unless she's

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Speaker 4: hiding her mouth.

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Speaker 3: I am on the side of TikTok that has all

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Speaker 3: the lipreaders, so I love that it will be every

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Speaker 3: just event with celebrities and a lipreader telling me what

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Speaker 3: they're saying. And then other one I get is psyekicks,

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Speaker 3: So I feel like I really know a lot. The

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Speaker 3: other thing about Timmy that got lip red was his

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Speaker 3: sister comes up to him, Pauline and Kylie sitting behind

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Speaker 3: him and the lip reader, and you know, the lip

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Speaker 3: reader is one hundred percent accurately. Let's just just put that.

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Speaker 2: Science says they're thirty to forty anyway.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Timothy says to his sister, could you go easy

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Speaker 3: on her, referring to Kylie as supposed to, and Pauline

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Speaker 3: says okay. Then Timothy reiterates, I want you to go

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Speaker 3: easy on.

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Speaker 2: Her, because what was she going to do.

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Speaker 3: And I believe it so hard because I'm like, that

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Speaker 3: is exactly what my brother would say to me if

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Speaker 3: he had a girlfriend.

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Speaker 2: By then you might be going up to him being like,

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Speaker 2: why are you wearing? Yeah, what's with the keyhole? Am

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Speaker 2: I supposed to put something in.

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Speaker 1: That key hole?

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Speaker 2: Royals are in lots of trouble with the lip readers. Recently,

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Speaker 2: King Charles was getting into his carriage and apparently that suck.

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Speaker 1: Me after his nation.

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Speaker 3: Remember the pin Remember his pen that ran out of

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Speaker 3: ink and he was really cranky. I don't even think

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Speaker 3: that was lip reading. I think you could hear it.

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Speaker 3: He's so cranky.

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Speaker 2: He's really cranky. But anyway, pour one out for them,

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Speaker 2: because they can't even get drunk and have a good

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Speaker 2: time anymore without everybody going I can tell what you're saying.

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Speaker 2: I need to talk about some actual scrorellous gossip you

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Speaker 2: might be seeing around your feeds. That Nicole Kidman, who

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Speaker 2: was definitely relaunching at the Oscars, particularly at the Vanity

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Speaker 2: Fair party. She looked unbelievable in that yellow dress at

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Speaker 2: the Vanity Fair party after the Oscars, and she was

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Speaker 2: very main character. I mean, of course, she is, she's thick.

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Speaker 4: She photo bombed Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchezos, which I loved.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's like only one of the people in

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Speaker 3: this photo should be here star power.

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Speaker 2: And the camera just followed her away from Jeff Lawrence.

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Speaker 2: Must have been very humbling for them. But anyway, the

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Speaker 2: rumors are that she's got a relaunch of another I'm

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Speaker 2: going on. You might have seen that she is dating

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Speaker 2: our own Simon Baker. Like three people showed this to

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Speaker 2: me in the kitchen this morning, showed me an Instagram

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Speaker 2: title of her holding hands with Simon Baker on a

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Speaker 2: red carpet, and we're going, is this true? Because obviously

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Speaker 2: they know that.

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Speaker 3: I know you'd know.

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Speaker 2: First my close personal friend Nicole Kidman. Woman's Day reports

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Speaker 2: they debuted their romance on the scarpeta red carpet and

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Speaker 2: it has Nicole's ex husband, Keith Urban.

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Speaker 4: Really the tabloid's just like they only flaunt their pins.

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Speaker 6: They're looking at it sitting on a stools.

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Speaker 2: In terms of whether or not we think this is true,

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Speaker 2: they are in a show together at the minute in

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Speaker 2: which they play a husband and wife.

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Speaker 1: Is this Scarpeader scarpet?

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Speaker 2: It's on Prime.

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Speaker 4: Have you heard it's yeah, because it's based on the

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Speaker 4: Patricia corn Or novels about the forensic psychologists, and I

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Speaker 4: love those novels. So I was tracking the reviews closely.

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Speaker 2: But are you going to watch it?

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Speaker 4: I don't think so.

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Speaker 1: The reviews are quite bad.

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Speaker 2: That's bad. Anyway. They're in it together, and they were

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Speaker 2: at the launch and they're standing next to each other

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Speaker 2: in a group of people, and indeed they are holding hands.

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Speaker 2: But let's get some context here. A, they're actors. B.

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Speaker 2: They've known each other for thirty years. Nicole is the

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Speaker 2: godmother of his children. She was Besti's with his ex wife.

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Speaker 2: The fact that they are holding hands on a red

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Speaker 2: carpet could mean that the popular romantic trope of friends

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Speaker 2: to love Us has life, or it could mean that

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Speaker 2: they would like to stoke a little bit of rumor

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Speaker 2: to get people to watch Keith to reel, get Keith

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Speaker 2: to reel, or to get people to watch scarpettit because,

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Speaker 2: as Amelia says, the reviewers are not encouraging them to

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Speaker 2: or they could just be mates promoting a show.

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Speaker 3: Nicole is very I think she's very clever and strategic

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Speaker 3: about this stuff. I think she'd be holding Simon Baker's

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Speaker 3: hand because she knows it's going to get attention. And

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Speaker 3: if I was next to Simon Baker, I'd want to

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Speaker 3: hold his hand.

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Speaker 4: I have famously talked on the show about the fact

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Speaker 4: that he was the most lovely celebrity I've ever met.

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Speaker 1: I mean, among the only celebrities I've ever met.

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Speaker 3: You met him.

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Speaker 1: I met him at a press event.

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Speaker 4: He was in the car with me and he introduced

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Speaker 4: himself and he said, hello, I'm Simon Baker and put

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Speaker 4: his hand up.

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Speaker 3: And you said, you don't need to introduce yourself to me.

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Speaker 2: He said, if I shake that head, can we hold the.

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Speaker 1: He was reeling somewhere. What did the lipretors say? That's

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Speaker 1: question true.

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Speaker 2: We need to enlist them. I don't think they've been

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Speaker 2: on this one.

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Speaker 4: Well, look, I want to bring something from the Oscars

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Speaker 4: that will make your day. And it's a very short

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Speaker 4: clip and it's Ethan Hawk talking to Amelia de Moldenburg

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Speaker 4: on the Oscars Red Carpet. No further explanation needed.

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Speaker 3: Do you have any advice for someone who also has

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Speaker 3: a bit of an unrequited love theme in their life?

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Speaker 2: The one who's in love always wins.

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Speaker 7: Okay, yeah, it doesn't matter if you get your heart broken.

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Speaker 7: You're living when you're when you're feeling, you're alive. You know,

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Speaker 7: the sun doesn't care whether the grass appreciates its raise, Right,

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Speaker 7: it just keeps unshining.

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Speaker 1: I mean actual chills, right, actual chills.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, it's the most profound thing, liver, profound like the

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Speaker 3: sun doesn't care, It doesn't care. It just like it

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Speaker 3: makes me feel so much better about my ears.

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Speaker 4: Abounrequired always wins. Mean I am so here for the

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Speaker 4: ethan Hawk renaissance. I don't care that he allegedly cheated

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Speaker 4: on him with herman, with the nanny who we then married.

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Speaker 2: I don't even know if there's an alleged in that

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Speaker 2: sentence anymore, but.

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Speaker 1: He does deny it.

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Speaker 3: Holy, yeah, he's wise. Now.

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Speaker 2: I think he's a savior of gen X men, because

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Speaker 2: we all know that a lot of gen x heart

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Speaker 2: things have not let Johnny. And the thing is is that, yes,

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Speaker 2: Ethan Hawk has a few questionable stories in his past,

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Speaker 2: but every time he's interviewed, he's real. He drops something wise,

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Speaker 2: he's deep sea. He's a bit embarrassing, but he doesn't mind.

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Speaker 2: He's aging like a fine, he really is. I think

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Speaker 2: he could be, and he kind of has that. He

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Speaker 2: has the gen x sort of arty anti establishment he

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Speaker 2: thing that was the best of us.

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Speaker 4: Did you even know that he writes novels no one

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Speaker 4: reads them, but he continues to see them.

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Speaker 2: And he makes documentaries about weird shit, and he's Mayahawk's dad.

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Speaker 3: I just think he seems like a good dad because

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Speaker 3: I like my hook.

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Speaker 2: Let's allow him to give us all our wisdom from

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Speaker 2: here on in.

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Speaker 3: If it sometimes feels like the world just wasn't built

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Speaker 3: for you, that's how I feel every single day. You'd

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Speaker 3: be right. For example, something that I notice all the

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Speaker 3: time is every time I'm on a train, the handholders

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Speaker 3: are really high, and even if I can reach it,

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Speaker 3: my shirt like rides up, so I'm just exposing my

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Speaker 3: belly to everyone on the train.

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Speaker 1: Are you not getting offered a seat on the train?

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Speaker 3: You're obviously grave and state Okay, I have a whole

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Speaker 3: theory about this. People have become too politically correct and

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Speaker 3: they don't want to say would.

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Speaker 1: So you're not getting it?

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Speaker 2: Do not know yet? I don't think I would look

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Speaker 2: at you at this moment and go definitely pregnant. I

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Speaker 2: would put you in the borderline. I could offend her.

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Speaker 2: I offer her the seat category you need to wait

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Speaker 2: till really near the end, when no one's going like

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Speaker 2: she might hit me.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, well anyway, I do have opinions about how

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Speaker 3: I wish people would take more consideration. But it turns

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Speaker 3: out everything from public transport to cars, to medicines, to

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Speaker 3: phones to the temperature of your office was probably designed

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Speaker 3: with a specific person in mind. And his name is

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Speaker 3: reference Man. He is a white male, twenty five to

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Speaker 3: thirty five years old, weighing around seventy kilos and he's

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Speaker 3: about one hundred and seventy centimeters tall. In an article

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Speaker 3: for ABC titled women are often an afterthought when it

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Speaker 3: comes to designing products, Nicole Kharms who is a professor

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Speaker 3: in the Department of Design at Monash University and she's

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Speaker 3: founding director of the Monash x y X Lab, which

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Speaker 3: leads research into gender sensitive design. She tells reporter Amelia

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Speaker 3: Moseley reference Man was created in the mid nineteen seventies,

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Speaker 3: and he became what I would describe as a kind

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Speaker 3: of default or standard human that was the measure for everything.

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Speaker 2: I think lots of podcasts have made for reference man.

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of.

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Speaker 2: I had quite a lot of movies that one. Things

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Speaker 2: at the Oscars were also made for reference.

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Speaker 3: That's my problem with one battle after another, it was

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Speaker 3: the reference man movie. So the problem is that for

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Speaker 3: a very long time, women, despite being half the population,

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Speaker 3: weren't part of the research studies that informed design. And

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Speaker 3: what happened was they'd use men. And I remember learning

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Speaker 3: this at UNI. It's also because it would be men

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Speaker 3: who were the UNI students who would participate in all

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Speaker 3: the studies, but they would then just scale everything down

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Speaker 3: thirty or forty percent for women. They were basically saying

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Speaker 3: women are just short males, which didn't take into account

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Speaker 3: all the differences in women's body shape and bone density

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Speaker 3: and body fat and muscle mass and blood pressure and

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Speaker 3: resting heart rate and all of that. So here are

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Speaker 3: a few of the consequences of reference men that I

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Speaker 3: didn't know about. Musical instruments can be more difficult for

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Speaker 3: women to play, for example, the flute because they're designed

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Speaker 3: for male.

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Speaker 2: Hands, big fingers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and so women sometimes get a flute and they

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Speaker 3: can't like separate their fingers enough for the.

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Speaker 2: Whole That's definitely why I can't.

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Speaker 3: I was gonna say, that's a great excuse for my

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Speaker 3: lack of musical skill. Women's clothes will often have no pockets,

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Speaker 3: or pockets that are so narrow and small they're almost useless.

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Speaker 3: PPE wasn't designed to fit women. Even though women make

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Speaker 3: up seventy percent of frontline healthcare workers. Women are up

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Speaker 3: to seventy five percent more likely to experience adverse reactions

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Speaker 3: to prescription medicines. I reckon, I've had this to be

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Speaker 3: a problem. Yes, I reckon, I've had this because they

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Speaker 3: give you a dose and they go, oh sorry. We

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Speaker 3: should have actually adapted it based on the fact that, like,

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Speaker 3: according to this, you're actually half the size of reference man. Anyway,

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Speaker 3: in some country, studies show women are more likely to

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Speaker 3: be injured in a car crash than men, and air

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Speaker 3: conditioning in offices feels really intense to a lot of women,

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Speaker 3: except for Holly, which we'll get to.

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Speaker 2: I'm turning into reference man. I turn that air cut up.

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Speaker 1: I wanted.

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Speaker 3: Because it was based on the metabolic activity of a

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Speaker 3: forty year old seventy kilo male and women generally have

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Speaker 3: lower metabolic rates, which means we generate less heat. Holy

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Speaker 3: I'm actually with you on the aircon. I love a

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Speaker 3: crispy cold air cold the moment.

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Speaker 1: Holly, what other parts of reference?

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Speaker 4: Man? Do you think you're going to quiet? You can

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Speaker 4: start listening to Carl's podcast. I feel like that's very referenced.

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Speaker 2: Yes, what else I could do?

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Speaker 1: John Grisham novels, Yes one hundred.

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Speaker 2: This is very good advice for me in a moment?

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Speaker 1: What is a peptide?

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Speaker 4: And why are you suddenly singing them everywhere.

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Speaker 2: Out louders? Hey, it's Mia and m Vanam.

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Speaker 5: We weren't invited for the Oscars episode where we that

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Speaker 5: was really holy. Amelia and Claire did on Monday, so

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Speaker 5: we comment did the mics and.

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Speaker 2: Did our own Oscars episode.

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Speaker 5: But we only wanted to talk about the fashion. Really,

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Speaker 5: there was some judgment, but it was done with love,

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Speaker 5: I think, and kindness. We not only talked about the

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Speaker 5: Oscars Red Carpet but also the Vanity Fair red carpet.

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Speaker 5: I had a small rant, but we also did talk

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Speaker 5: about our best and worst.

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Speaker 2: I'm not quite passionate, sneak peek.

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Speaker 5: My worst is all the women who couldn't walk, or

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Speaker 5: eat or breathe in their outfits. But there were also

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Speaker 5: lots of bests, weren't there so many? So if you

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Speaker 5: want to hear us, and you're not already a subscriber,

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Speaker 5: there's a link in your show notes and you can

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Speaker 5: listen right now. And if you are a subscriber, you've

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Speaker 5: probably listened to.

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Speaker 2: See you Sam.

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Speaker 4: You may have seen this on your social feed recently,

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Speaker 4: someone is injecting themselves with something they claim is the fountain.

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Speaker 1: Of Youth, which they call a peptide.

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Speaker 4: The ABC has reported that kids as young as fourteen

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Speaker 4: are ordering what they think are peptides online because of

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Speaker 4: reported health benefits. Joe Rogan reference man himself, urged, Matt

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Speaker 4: Damon also a reference.

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Speaker 2: Man, definitely a reference man.

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Speaker 1: Matt Damon and Ben Affleck. He said to them.

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Speaker 4: That they should take a so called wolverine peptide on

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Speaker 4: his show recently. Joe Rogan. Look, he's not a doctor,

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Speaker 4: and neither am I. But we are not here to

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Speaker 4: recommend that people do this. Instead, we want to talk

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Speaker 4: about what peptides are, why you're seeing them everywhere, and

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Speaker 4: why this social media driven trend, because it is very

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Speaker 4: much social media driven, why this trend is so dangerous? Okay, FIRS,

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Speaker 4: just a tiny bit of science for you. They are

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Speaker 4: already peptides in your body. They're already there.

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Speaker 1: They are the building blocks of proteins. They do lots

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Speaker 1: of different things. They kind of tell the body what

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Speaker 1: to do.

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Speaker 4: They're in your metabolism, they're in your growth systems, they're

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Speaker 4: in your immune system. But the peptides we're talking about

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Speaker 4: today are outside of your body, and they are being

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Speaker 4: created in labs.

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Speaker 2: Some of them are in a really nice looking jar, yes,

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Speaker 2: at my favorite beauty shop, which is fine, being sold

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Speaker 2: to me by my friend Gwyneth. Yes, is that.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I can't speak to those specific ones, but I

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Speaker 4: will say that the problem is that there's a whole

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Speaker 4: bunch of so called peptides floating around which have not

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Speaker 4: been studied, not approved by the TGA, which is the

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Speaker 4: Therapeutic Goods Administration which regulates medicines in Australia. It may

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Speaker 4: not even be peptides because they're being sold online and

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Speaker 4: are not being regulated. And there are lots of people

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Speaker 4: on the internet, including our friend Robert F. Kennedy Junior,

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Speaker 4: as well as a lot of influencers. There are a

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Speaker 4: lot of women talking about this too. They're making wild

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Speaker 4: claims about what these peptides can do for you in

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Speaker 4: terms of health and well. A stat that blew my

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Speaker 4: mind is that the TG says that it took down

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Speaker 4: more than thirteen thousand advertisements in the twenty twenty four

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Speaker 4: to twenty five financial year online which were including peptide advertisements.

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Speaker 1: And the reason they're.

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Speaker 4: Online is because none of these are actually approved drugs,

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Speaker 4: so they can't be advertised in any form to the

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Speaker 4: general public, and experts are pretty unanimous in saying that

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Speaker 4: this is extremely dangerous. Before I get into why, I

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Speaker 4: want to know, Claire, have you seen this phenomenon online?

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Speaker 3: Yes. Luckily I am on the side of the internet

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Speaker 3: where the first stuff I saw was people criticizing peptides.

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Speaker 3: But then I was like, what are you criticizing? To

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Speaker 3: find out more so then I would look at I

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Speaker 3: searched it and found some of the influencers who are

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Speaker 3: promoting it and was gobsmacked. I just even the idea

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Speaker 3: of injecting yourself without having been shown how to do

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Speaker 3: that biomedical practitioner.

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Speaker 1: I'm not knowing what's in and not.

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Speaker 3: Knowing what's in it, and apparently there can be like

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Speaker 3: heavy metal. I mean, they can be all sorts of

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Speaker 3: things because it's completely unregulated. The other thing that I

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Speaker 3: saw was some of the Robert F. Kennedy Junior stuff,

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Speaker 3: and I thought, it's very, very fascinating what he is

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00:19:23,114 --> 00:19:29,474
Speaker 3: apprehensive about injecting versus what he's very means injections. Vaccine, no,

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00:19:29,554 --> 00:19:32,994
Speaker 3: not crucial for health. Peptides, on the other hand, Oh yes,

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Speaker 3: we'll get though.

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Speaker 4: And apparently in a lot of these social media posts,

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Speaker 4: they point out that the labels on these peptides say

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Speaker 4: things like for research purposes only.

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Speaker 1: Or not for human use.

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Speaker 4: But the TEGA specifically wants people to know that this

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Speaker 4: is not some kind of get out of jail free

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Speaker 4: card for the people who are producing these peptides or

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Speaker 4: so called peptides. It doesn't change the fact that they

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Speaker 4: are not approved and should not be used.

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Speaker 3: If it says not for human use, why are you

402
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Speaker 3: allowed to sell them to humans? I just don't understand.

403
00:20:02,634 --> 00:20:04,434
Speaker 4: That's a question for reference man, who I'm sure is

404
00:20:04,474 --> 00:20:07,313
Speaker 4: currently thinking about taking them. But the thing is that

405
00:20:07,354 --> 00:20:09,434
Speaker 4: a doctor who's interviewed for the SITNY Morning Herald said

406
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Speaker 4: that best case scenario, you're injecting water. If you're doing this,

407
00:20:13,514 --> 00:20:17,714
Speaker 4: worst case scenario. You're injecting heavy metals and contaminants, which

408
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Speaker 4: doesn't sound good to me, and there's a risk of cancer,

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Speaker 4: of lethal hypothermia, and a lot of risks we don't

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Speaker 4: even know about because again we do not know what

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00:20:24,834 --> 00:20:28,354
Speaker 4: people are injecting. Holly, have you seen the marketing around this?

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Speaker 4: And why do you think people are being seduced by

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Speaker 4: this incredibly unsafe trend.

414
00:20:33,434 --> 00:20:38,073
Speaker 2: It's cottage cheese. So this exists in my world. This

415
00:20:38,194 --> 00:20:41,634
Speaker 2: exists in the overlapping Venn diagram of midlife women and

416
00:20:41,674 --> 00:20:44,954
Speaker 2: teenage boys, just like cottage cheese and creatinine.

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Speaker 7: Right.

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00:20:45,754 --> 00:20:49,354
Speaker 2: So I'm seeing fancy ladies on the internet doing it

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Speaker 2: as part of their morning routine. American fancy ladies on

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Speaker 2: the internet like giving themselves little jab And then I

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00:20:55,834 --> 00:20:59,594
Speaker 2: know teenage boy moms who the boys are trading this

422
00:20:59,594 --> 00:21:03,194
Speaker 2: stuff at the gym? Really so gym's at the moment,

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00:21:03,634 --> 00:21:06,033
Speaker 2: it's very like teenage boys in general. There is a

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Speaker 2: massive gin trend huge like muscles are in. Weightlifting is

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00:21:10,354 --> 00:21:13,354
Speaker 2: in again overlapping with the middle aged ladies. We're like

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00:21:13,394 --> 00:21:15,834
Speaker 2: weight train, weight training, forget the cardio. It's same for

427
00:21:15,874 --> 00:21:19,154
Speaker 2: teenage boys. A lot of pressure about that, right. The

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00:21:19,194 --> 00:21:21,714
Speaker 2: people I know who are most concerned about this are

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Speaker 2: actually mothers of teenage boys who are as young as

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Speaker 2: the thing said, in their early teens, who are legally

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Speaker 2: buying it online, and they're worried about what they might

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00:21:30,514 --> 00:21:34,073
Speaker 2: be injecting. It's interesting because these are very different fears

433
00:21:34,114 --> 00:21:36,234
Speaker 2: to what my mother might have been worried about what

434
00:21:36,314 --> 00:21:37,954
Speaker 2: I was injecting in my teenage.

435
00:21:38,514 --> 00:21:39,074
Speaker 1: But it is.

436
00:21:39,234 --> 00:21:42,354
Speaker 2: It's real. It's definitely real, and it's sort of everywhere

437
00:21:42,434 --> 00:21:45,794
Speaker 2: and scary. But it is interesting that it these things

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Speaker 2: just pop up and suddenly every woman of a certain

439
00:21:50,274 --> 00:21:53,474
Speaker 2: age is saying peptide, peptide, peptide, and every teenage boy

440
00:21:53,554 --> 00:21:55,313
Speaker 2: is saying peptide peptide, And you're like.

441
00:21:55,314 --> 00:21:56,394
Speaker 1: Where did that come from all?

442
00:21:56,874 --> 00:21:59,514
Speaker 4: And I think what's so pernicious about it is that,

443
00:21:59,834 --> 00:22:03,434
Speaker 4: as we've talked about, there are peptides already out there

444
00:22:03,834 --> 00:22:07,354
Speaker 4: in drugs that are approved for prescription use and also

445
00:22:07,474 --> 00:22:10,354
Speaker 4: in things like skincare, and they're also in our body.

446
00:22:10,554 --> 00:22:13,194
Speaker 4: So there's a sense that like, maybe this is a

447
00:22:13,234 --> 00:22:15,274
Speaker 4: bit of a gray area, but it's not a gray

448
00:22:15,314 --> 00:22:18,314
Speaker 4: area because the ones that people are injecting are not

449
00:22:18,474 --> 00:22:20,834
Speaker 4: approved or safe for human use.

450
00:22:21,274 --> 00:22:24,994
Speaker 3: They're kind of leveraging the efficacy of those drugs to

451
00:22:25,074 --> 00:22:29,474
Speaker 3: suggest that all of these unregulated ones will be just

452
00:22:29,514 --> 00:22:34,594
Speaker 3: as effective. The thing that I mean, I just am

453
00:22:34,674 --> 00:22:40,234
Speaker 3: overwhelmed by is the scale of marketing on social media

454
00:22:40,274 --> 00:22:43,634
Speaker 3: and the tone of it. So they're called they call

455
00:22:43,674 --> 00:22:46,354
Speaker 3: them stacks, and it's like there'll be a glow stack

456
00:22:46,794 --> 00:22:49,954
Speaker 3: and as you say, a wolverine stack, and all those

457
00:22:49,994 --> 00:22:52,514
Speaker 3: things are so it's like it's appealing to like our

458
00:22:52,634 --> 00:22:55,474
Speaker 3: base instincts of what we want. And the glowpack there's

459
00:22:55,514 --> 00:22:58,914
Speaker 3: one that like is meant to make you, like, does

460
00:22:58,914 --> 00:23:02,474
Speaker 3: something with melanin makes your skin darker? It's good for

461
00:23:02,634 --> 00:23:06,474
Speaker 3: skin and your hair growth and all of that. Apparently

462
00:23:06,594 --> 00:23:10,594
Speaker 3: there's no scientific evidence, but that's what it is, marketed

463
00:23:10,674 --> 00:23:14,714
Speaker 3: as some kind of biohack. And you just think, so

464
00:23:14,874 --> 00:23:18,513
Speaker 3: these people are talking like that about something for which

465
00:23:18,874 --> 00:23:23,234
Speaker 3: there is no clinical approval for their use. But I

466
00:23:23,274 --> 00:23:26,114
Speaker 3: was like, imagine if people did that about something that

467
00:23:26,154 --> 00:23:30,554
Speaker 3: there was clinical approval for, like antidepressant. Can you imagine

468
00:23:30,594 --> 00:23:32,874
Speaker 3: being like these will make you hot and happy? Like

469
00:23:33,234 --> 00:23:35,874
Speaker 3: it would just be completely bizarre because that's not how

470
00:23:35,874 --> 00:23:39,154
Speaker 3: you talk about health products, right, right, The thing is.

471
00:23:39,114 --> 00:23:41,513
Speaker 2: Most of us have no idea. Most people have no

472
00:23:41,634 --> 00:23:44,074
Speaker 2: idea about the science of any of this stuff. I

473
00:23:44,114 --> 00:23:47,274
Speaker 2: don't freely admit that a lot of the expensive skin

474
00:23:47,314 --> 00:23:49,594
Speaker 2: care that I am easily seduced into buying, I have

475
00:23:49,754 --> 00:23:52,634
Speaker 2: no idea what it does, no idea at all. So

476
00:23:53,274 --> 00:23:55,674
Speaker 2: the thing is is that when that takes this step

477
00:23:56,194 --> 00:24:00,754
Speaker 2: into invasive, intravenous or whatever, it is, like, I totally

478
00:24:00,834 --> 00:24:03,834
Speaker 2: understand why people are just like, she looks great, yeah,

479
00:24:03,874 --> 00:24:06,674
Speaker 2: you know, like or he looks stacked, like it just

480
00:24:06,794 --> 00:24:09,874
Speaker 2: is so so you know, we're kind of just very

481
00:24:09,914 --> 00:24:10,954
Speaker 2: easily seduced.

482
00:24:11,034 --> 00:24:11,994
Speaker 1: Yeah.

483
00:24:12,074 --> 00:24:14,714
Speaker 4: Look, if you are curious about peptides or think you

484
00:24:14,754 --> 00:24:17,553
Speaker 4: want to explore them, we've been asked to emphasize that

485
00:24:17,634 --> 00:24:20,474
Speaker 4: you really need to talk to a doctor about it.

486
00:24:21,474 --> 00:24:24,194
Speaker 3: After the break, we used to be obsessed with this

487
00:24:24,314 --> 00:24:27,554
Speaker 3: royal couple, but now they're in Australia and no one

488
00:24:27,594 --> 00:24:38,474
Speaker 3: seems to care. There are some royals who seem to

489
00:24:38,634 --> 00:24:43,914
Speaker 3: really capture the public imagination, and some of those aren't

490
00:24:43,954 --> 00:24:46,914
Speaker 3: even royals anymore. But I remember when Harry and Meghan

491
00:24:47,034 --> 00:24:50,553
Speaker 3: visited Australia in twenty eighteen, and every new site was

492
00:24:50,634 --> 00:24:54,274
Speaker 3: wall to wall with stories about exactly what they were

493
00:24:54,314 --> 00:24:55,874
Speaker 3: doing at any given moment.

494
00:24:55,914 --> 00:24:58,194
Speaker 4: I mean, I think you've mentioned it on this podcast

495
00:24:58,234 --> 00:25:00,274
Speaker 4: as much as I've mentioned my Simon Baker and Trader.

496
00:25:00,394 --> 00:25:03,314
Speaker 3: I know, I know I was really driving.

497
00:25:03,514 --> 00:25:05,474
Speaker 1: Moment in your life. I really was.

498
00:25:06,354 --> 00:25:09,513
Speaker 3: But right now there's a high profile royal couple in

499
00:25:09,554 --> 00:25:12,194
Speaker 3: our own backyard and there's just not that much of

500
00:25:12,234 --> 00:25:16,114
Speaker 3: a fuss. Queen Mary and King Frederick of Denmark were

501
00:25:16,194 --> 00:25:19,714
Speaker 3: in Central Australia over the weekend before traveling to Canberra

502
00:25:19,914 --> 00:25:22,874
Speaker 3: and Melbourne. In Melbourne, they're on day two of their

503
00:25:22,954 --> 00:25:27,874
Speaker 3: royal engagements, focused largely on renewable energy and sustainable development.

504
00:25:29,714 --> 00:25:35,034
Speaker 3: Well found mistake very important doing something worthy. Yeah. Yeah.

505
00:25:35,314 --> 00:25:38,354
Speaker 3: When Queen Mary, who was then known as Mary Donaldson,

506
00:25:38,674 --> 00:25:41,394
Speaker 3: met Frederick, the Crown Prince of Denmark at the Slip

507
00:25:41,394 --> 00:25:44,434
Speaker 3: Inn in Sydney during the two thousand Olympics, it was

508
00:25:44,474 --> 00:25:49,114
Speaker 3: our very favorite story that ever happened. It was they

509
00:25:49,154 --> 00:25:52,154
Speaker 3: had a long distance relationship and then the following year

510
00:25:52,194 --> 00:25:55,674
Speaker 3: Mary moved to Denmark. They were engaged, then they were

511
00:25:55,714 --> 00:25:57,914
Speaker 3: married in two thousand and four and we had our

512
00:25:58,074 --> 00:26:00,674
Speaker 3: very own Australian fairy tale. Remember, there was like the

513
00:26:01,874 --> 00:26:04,073
Speaker 3: was it a television series or a television movie?

514
00:26:04,114 --> 00:26:04,874
Speaker 2: There was a movie.

515
00:26:04,954 --> 00:26:05,954
Speaker 3: I think it was a movie.

516
00:26:06,034 --> 00:26:08,194
Speaker 4: Also the fact that they met at the Sydney Olympics.

517
00:26:08,194 --> 00:26:10,874
Speaker 4: For anyone who was lucky enough to be in Sydney

518
00:26:11,034 --> 00:26:13,754
Speaker 4: during those two weeks, I think it was the greatest

519
00:26:13,794 --> 00:26:15,474
Speaker 4: two weeks of human civilization.

520
00:26:15,874 --> 00:26:17,714
Speaker 1: And it was so it felt right that there was

521
00:26:17,714 --> 00:26:19,394
Speaker 1: this serendipitous love story to come out of.

522
00:26:19,394 --> 00:26:21,194
Speaker 3: It, and it was very It could have been made.

523
00:26:21,234 --> 00:26:24,234
Speaker 2: Oh and it was there's something very sex in the

524
00:26:24,274 --> 00:26:27,874
Speaker 2: city about everyone's like real estate agent just having cocktails

525
00:26:27,914 --> 00:26:30,714
Speaker 2: with her girls, like oh, handsome prints, like it's very

526
00:26:30,794 --> 00:26:33,594
Speaker 2: it was we ate that up with the sting.

527
00:26:34,074 --> 00:26:38,314
Speaker 3: Think about I can't count the amount of bad Netflix

528
00:26:38,394 --> 00:26:42,074
Speaker 3: movies I've watched that are based on that premise. It's like,

529
00:26:42,554 --> 00:26:42,994
Speaker 3: isn't there.

530
00:26:42,954 --> 00:26:45,914
Speaker 4: Also like an Anne Halfaway movie about almost exactly the.

531
00:26:46,114 --> 00:26:48,674
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was that movie. Like Fred would have

532
00:26:48,674 --> 00:26:52,794
Speaker 2: pretended he wasn't a Danish prince for it. It would

533
00:26:52,834 --> 00:26:57,154
Speaker 2: have just been like, hey, I really like boats that

534
00:26:57,994 --> 00:27:02,874
Speaker 2: by Jumper. That's not what happened. When I was working

535
00:27:02,874 --> 00:27:05,994
Speaker 2: in gossip Mags, she was it. We would stay up

536
00:27:06,034 --> 00:27:08,114
Speaker 2: all night to cover whatever she was doing. Everyone was

537
00:27:08,154 --> 00:27:11,273
Speaker 2: always trying to get to her friends, her exes like

538
00:27:11,434 --> 00:27:13,194
Speaker 2: she was it.

539
00:27:13,194 --> 00:27:15,634
Speaker 3: It was just this classic story of a girl from

540
00:27:15,634 --> 00:27:18,914
Speaker 3: Tasmania marrying a prince, which just isn't meant to happen.

541
00:27:18,954 --> 00:27:21,074
Speaker 3: That's why we loved it so much. Now they have

542
00:27:21,154 --> 00:27:24,594
Speaker 3: four children, and in twenty twenty four, Mary became the

543
00:27:24,634 --> 00:27:29,194
Speaker 3: first Australian born queen consort of any country after the

544
00:27:29,234 --> 00:27:32,553
Speaker 3: abdication of her mother in law. So why aren't we

545
00:27:32,634 --> 00:27:36,074
Speaker 3: following their every move in Australia? Why aren't they ever

546
00:27:36,114 --> 00:27:38,434
Speaker 3: in the headlines? Why aren't I lining up at the

547
00:27:38,474 --> 00:27:39,514
Speaker 3: opera house to see her?

548
00:27:39,754 --> 00:27:40,314
Speaker 2: Why aren't you?

549
00:27:40,754 --> 00:27:44,194
Speaker 3: I have a theory, But first, Holly, what's yours?

550
00:27:44,434 --> 00:27:47,034
Speaker 2: I have a theory. My theory is it's about age.

551
00:27:47,074 --> 00:27:51,313
Speaker 2: Like Mary is now a middle aged mother. Nobody likes those.

552
00:27:52,434 --> 00:27:57,434
Speaker 2: She has four children, she's married, she's fifty ish. I

553
00:27:57,474 --> 00:28:01,634
Speaker 2: think she's fifty four. Maybe she's not interesting anymore because

554
00:28:01,674 --> 00:28:04,794
Speaker 2: that's the way.

555
00:28:03,634 --> 00:28:05,834
Speaker 1: About okay, and she's got three.

556
00:28:05,594 --> 00:28:08,514
Speaker 2: I think this is interesting because I think that one

557
00:28:08,514 --> 00:28:10,314
Speaker 2: of the things about and I want to be clear

558
00:28:10,354 --> 00:28:12,274
Speaker 2: to the people is we are not being me. We're

559
00:28:12,274 --> 00:28:14,874
Speaker 2: not saying nobody cares about Mary's She's boring. I'm like,

560
00:28:15,074 --> 00:28:20,754
Speaker 2: we're examining why why the interest wanes? And I think

561
00:28:20,834 --> 00:28:24,394
Speaker 2: there is a tale here about if you can wait

562
00:28:24,514 --> 00:28:29,314
Speaker 2: out the mania, you know, a sort of Megan Kate

563
00:28:29,954 --> 00:28:32,794
Speaker 2: Carolyn Bissett, Not that she was ever able to do that,

564
00:28:33,154 --> 00:28:35,793
Speaker 2: but if you can wait out the mania, when you

565
00:28:35,954 --> 00:28:39,034
Speaker 2: become a middle aged woman, nobody's going to want to

566
00:28:39,074 --> 00:28:41,834
Speaker 2: look at you anymore. I just I think it's sort

567
00:28:41,874 --> 00:28:46,154
Speaker 2: of sad but true. Also I think that they are

568
00:28:46,194 --> 00:28:48,474
Speaker 2: We talk about this quite often, is that the Danes

569
00:28:48,514 --> 00:28:51,914
Speaker 2: have a very different model of monarchy than the UK royals,

570
00:28:52,274 --> 00:28:54,274
Speaker 2: and it seems to be generally a healthy one that

571
00:28:54,314 --> 00:28:58,154
Speaker 2: people like. So in Denmark their approval ratings are generally

572
00:28:58,194 --> 00:29:01,714
Speaker 2: in the late eighties early nineties, which is huge. Like

573
00:29:01,834 --> 00:29:05,154
Speaker 2: King Charles, who's popular Ish is very lucky if he's

574
00:29:05,154 --> 00:29:08,954
Speaker 2: getting around sixty percent in any kind of poll. And

575
00:29:09,034 --> 00:29:12,754
Speaker 2: it's because the Danish royals are seen as being more

576
00:29:12,794 --> 00:29:16,514
Speaker 2: down to earth, less privileged. In some ways, they're famously

577
00:29:16,554 --> 00:29:18,874
Speaker 2: called the bicycle Royals because you might actually see one

578
00:29:18,914 --> 00:29:21,554
Speaker 2: out and about and I think that all of that

579
00:29:21,754 --> 00:29:24,834
Speaker 2: is really good and healthy, but it isn't as exciting.

580
00:29:25,314 --> 00:29:28,354
Speaker 3: Do you think it's also because when they got together

581
00:29:28,634 --> 00:29:32,234
Speaker 3: and there was all the digging around, there was no

582
00:29:32,394 --> 00:29:32,874
Speaker 3: there there.

583
00:29:32,914 --> 00:29:34,674
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was about to ask you about that, Holly,

584
00:29:34,714 --> 00:29:36,674
Speaker 4: do you feel like when she was it, when you

585
00:29:36,754 --> 00:29:39,594
Speaker 4: were working in women's mags, do you feel like you

586
00:29:39,714 --> 00:29:41,474
Speaker 4: ever got like kind of the dirt.

587
00:29:41,674 --> 00:29:44,434
Speaker 2: So there were rumors, right, there were rumors at the time,

588
00:29:44,514 --> 00:29:46,234
Speaker 2: and I'm not proud of any of this, but like

589
00:29:46,434 --> 00:29:49,074
Speaker 2: Mary Donaldson was, I'm going to get this wrong, but

590
00:29:49,234 --> 00:29:52,874
Speaker 2: she would have been early thirties, late twenties, so she'd

591
00:29:52,994 --> 00:29:55,434
Speaker 2: like been dating like a proper woman for a while,

592
00:29:56,114 --> 00:29:59,074
Speaker 2: and the journos of the gossip mags of the day

593
00:29:59,154 --> 00:30:01,474
Speaker 2: were digging hard, and they were all kinds of rumors

594
00:30:01,474 --> 00:30:03,794
Speaker 2: she used to date an AFL player, for example. There

595
00:30:03,794 --> 00:30:07,514
Speaker 2: were all kinds of rumors that, like all the images

596
00:30:07,594 --> 00:30:11,714
Speaker 2: from those times mysteriously disappeared from a hard drive, and

597
00:30:11,754 --> 00:30:14,394
Speaker 2: you know, like that there was almost a conspiracy to

598
00:30:14,514 --> 00:30:18,274
Speaker 2: clean up any backstory. She had some friends who were

599
00:30:18,834 --> 00:30:22,354
Speaker 2: in the media, you know, Sydney people around town, and

600
00:30:22,354 --> 00:30:25,034
Speaker 2: we used to try very hard to court them for gossip,

601
00:30:25,074 --> 00:30:27,754
Speaker 2: but they were quite tight lipped. So I think that

602
00:30:27,954 --> 00:30:31,394
Speaker 2: a she was a pretty normal and inverted commace person.

603
00:30:31,754 --> 00:30:35,754
Speaker 2: But also there was a very effective and it was

604
00:30:35,794 --> 00:30:38,234
Speaker 2: a simpler time in terms of what in terms of

605
00:30:38,234 --> 00:30:40,394
Speaker 2: what you could dig up, no social media footprint, all

606
00:30:40,394 --> 00:30:43,874
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. There was quite an effective whitewashing

607
00:30:43,914 --> 00:30:47,114
Speaker 2: of any problematic possibilities, do you know what I mean?

608
00:30:47,634 --> 00:30:50,754
Speaker 2: So I think that all of that spoke to its time.

609
00:30:50,834 --> 00:30:54,754
Speaker 2: But there's just no question I think that glamorous young

610
00:30:54,794 --> 00:30:57,754
Speaker 2: women are more interesting. Like I was thinking about this,

611
00:30:57,794 --> 00:31:00,594
Speaker 2: I was looking at Mary's social media following, for example,

612
00:31:00,834 --> 00:31:02,474
Speaker 2: and she doesn't caught it. She's not playing in the

613
00:31:02,514 --> 00:31:05,074
Speaker 2: attention economy. So this is all good for Mary, right,

614
00:31:05,154 --> 00:31:10,794
Speaker 2: She's getting worthy headlines about environmental issues, not endless speculation

615
00:31:10,914 --> 00:31:13,434
Speaker 2: about every little bit of what she does. But she

616
00:31:13,554 --> 00:31:17,274
Speaker 2: has about one hundred and twenty three thousand followers on Instagram.

617
00:31:17,314 --> 00:31:20,674
Speaker 2: Now that is not shabby, but that is not stratospheric.

618
00:31:20,714 --> 00:31:23,514
Speaker 2: Let's remember that Kylie Jenner, for example, has three hundred

619
00:31:23,554 --> 00:31:27,754
Speaker 2: and ninety million followers on Instagram, and Megan even has

620
00:31:27,754 --> 00:31:29,914
Speaker 2: four and a half million, and she, as you say,

621
00:31:29,954 --> 00:31:32,994
Speaker 2: isn't royal anymore. Because they are playing in the attention

622
00:31:33,074 --> 00:31:38,434
Speaker 2: economy and Mary isn't to be clear, like Mary is

623
00:31:38,514 --> 00:31:43,154
Speaker 2: a gorgeous, glamorous princess, but she's just not as catnip

624
00:31:43,434 --> 00:31:46,394
Speaker 2: to the social media crowd as she would be if

625
00:31:46,434 --> 00:31:47,954
Speaker 2: she was a twenty nine year old.

626
00:31:48,114 --> 00:31:52,354
Speaker 3: And I think she's good evidence that, to some extent,

627
00:31:53,274 --> 00:31:59,634
Speaker 3: you can avoid all the speculation and all the media

628
00:31:59,714 --> 00:32:04,714
Speaker 3: obsession if you keep your head down and just keep

629
00:32:04,754 --> 00:32:05,394
Speaker 3: doing your job.

630
00:32:05,474 --> 00:32:07,514
Speaker 4: But how does this fit with the fact that there

631
00:32:07,714 --> 00:32:11,714
Speaker 4: was a scandal not involving her directly, but involving her

632
00:32:11,794 --> 00:32:13,474
Speaker 4: husband relatively recently.

633
00:32:13,674 --> 00:32:16,514
Speaker 3: Because I think for me, and I hate to say this,

634
00:32:16,554 --> 00:32:19,554
Speaker 3: but I do think my fairy tale bubble got popped

635
00:32:19,554 --> 00:32:23,274
Speaker 3: a little bit when the rumors started about how Frederick

636
00:32:23,394 --> 00:32:25,514
Speaker 3: had cheated, because for me it.

637
00:32:25,514 --> 00:32:29,754
Speaker 2: Was allegedly has always denied it, and the woman in

638
00:32:29,834 --> 00:32:32,554
Speaker 2: question sued yes.

639
00:32:33,234 --> 00:32:36,234
Speaker 3: But I think I had this idea that their love

640
00:32:36,314 --> 00:32:42,674
Speaker 3: story was so uncomplicated and so beautiful that I know

641
00:32:42,874 --> 00:32:46,954
Speaker 3: I really did. I was like, they're superhuman. And in

642
00:32:46,994 --> 00:32:49,754
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, rumors started to circulate that he had

643
00:32:49,794 --> 00:32:52,754
Speaker 3: an affair with a Mexican socialite and there were photos

644
00:32:52,754 --> 00:32:55,754
Speaker 3: of them together in Spain. For some reason, this story

645
00:32:56,394 --> 00:32:58,034
Speaker 3: really stuck with me and blew up in my head.

646
00:32:58,034 --> 00:32:59,714
Speaker 3: And when I went back and looked at it, the

647
00:32:59,794 --> 00:33:04,394
Speaker 3: photos are so innocent, like there really was no smoking gun.

648
00:33:04,794 --> 00:33:08,674
Speaker 3: But I really became attached do it, and I really

649
00:33:09,674 --> 00:33:13,634
Speaker 3: lost hope. I thought, maybe no one's really about happy?

650
00:33:14,434 --> 00:33:17,114
Speaker 2: Yeah, but where But since when there's a whiff of

651
00:33:17,154 --> 00:33:20,554
Speaker 2: achieving scandal ever made people less interested in right? Like

652
00:33:20,634 --> 00:33:23,594
Speaker 2: normally that ramps up the entry. Everyone would be like,

653
00:33:23,914 --> 00:33:25,314
Speaker 2: let's read the body language.

654
00:33:25,394 --> 00:33:28,034
Speaker 4: Let's see if no one's slip reading them, even though

655
00:33:28,074 --> 00:33:31,274
Speaker 4: there was this marriage scandal, And that's really interesting.

656
00:33:31,554 --> 00:33:33,634
Speaker 3: And is it simply that you can choose to not

657
00:33:33,634 --> 00:33:36,914
Speaker 3: be in the headlines because she didn't. Mary didn't engage,

658
00:33:37,314 --> 00:33:40,274
Speaker 3: Like if she had gone out and made some big

659
00:33:40,314 --> 00:33:44,274
Speaker 3: statement about it, or if they had made I don't know,

660
00:33:44,314 --> 00:33:46,194
Speaker 3: a bit more of a fuss about the whole story,

661
00:33:46,594 --> 00:33:50,594
Speaker 3: perhaps it would have become this fixture.

662
00:33:50,634 --> 00:33:53,594
Speaker 4: I do think that we have to give Mary some

663
00:33:53,674 --> 00:33:56,874
Speaker 4: credit for this, because the discipline it must have taken

664
00:33:56,914 --> 00:33:59,674
Speaker 4: her to be in the public eye for more than

665
00:33:59,714 --> 00:34:03,954
Speaker 4: two decades and to basically have never said anything that

666
00:34:04,034 --> 00:34:07,434
Speaker 4: blew up is extraordinary.

667
00:34:06,714 --> 00:34:06,954
Speaker 2: I know.

668
00:34:07,394 --> 00:34:11,314
Speaker 3: And to have your kids not do anything that has

669
00:34:11,393 --> 00:34:14,193
Speaker 3: particularly blown up and I wouldn't know what her kids

670
00:34:14,194 --> 00:34:14,594
Speaker 3: look like.

671
00:34:14,953 --> 00:34:17,674
Speaker 2: Really, yeah, I'm afraid I would, but that's because of

672
00:34:17,714 --> 00:34:21,234
Speaker 2: my background. I think that all of that is true.

673
00:34:21,234 --> 00:34:23,194
Speaker 2: But I think in terms of the does it show

674
00:34:23,234 --> 00:34:26,154
Speaker 2: that you can avoid the headlines? I think, as I

675
00:34:26,194 --> 00:34:29,274
Speaker 2: said before, I think the Danish royal family are a

676
00:34:29,314 --> 00:34:32,634
Speaker 2: different kettle of fish because Kate Middleton, well what do

677
00:34:32,674 --> 00:34:36,354
Speaker 2: we call a princess? Catherine has tried that. Remember she

678
00:34:36,434 --> 00:34:40,634
Speaker 2: tried that with the whole photo scandal, the whole unedifying

679
00:34:40,994 --> 00:34:43,154
Speaker 2: obsession with where she was for a while that ended

680
00:34:43,234 --> 00:34:45,794
Speaker 2: up being that she had really serious health problems. She

681
00:34:45,994 --> 00:34:48,634
Speaker 2: tried never complained, never explained, which has always been the

682
00:34:48,634 --> 00:34:52,594
Speaker 2: British royal family's mantra, and it didn't work under the

683
00:34:52,594 --> 00:34:56,873
Speaker 2: pressure of the attention economy. Whereas Mary and Fred, as

684
00:34:56,914 --> 00:34:59,314
Speaker 2: you say, they rode out those rumors and everyone was

685
00:34:59,314 --> 00:35:02,433
Speaker 2: obsessed with it for a minute, but they've disappeared. They're

686
00:35:02,434 --> 00:35:05,714
Speaker 2: barely mentioned now. There is something really interesting in that,

687
00:35:05,754 --> 00:35:09,754
Speaker 2: maybe you can chew sort of. I think most people

688
00:35:09,794 --> 00:35:13,674
Speaker 2: respect her a lot and admire her in terms of

689
00:35:13,714 --> 00:35:17,114
Speaker 2: going what a woman. As you said, Amelia, she's really

690
00:35:17,154 --> 00:35:19,954
Speaker 2: carried herself so well. But you don't get the frenzy

691
00:35:20,434 --> 00:35:22,993
Speaker 2: and that's probably really great. Or you're a bit more

692
00:35:22,994 --> 00:35:26,674
Speaker 2: complicated and a bit more out there and you're getting

693
00:35:26,754 --> 00:35:29,674
Speaker 2: that you're courting the press all the time and your

694
00:35:29,674 --> 00:35:30,674
Speaker 2: life's a bit miserable.

695
00:35:31,114 --> 00:35:33,714
Speaker 4: She's looking amazing in her a Kubra's and Zimmerman on

696
00:35:33,754 --> 00:35:34,274
Speaker 4: this trip.

697
00:35:34,434 --> 00:35:36,953
Speaker 2: I know she was kicking a football at the MCG today,

698
00:35:36,954 --> 00:35:39,834
Speaker 2: which is exactly that's peak royal tour. That's exactly the

699
00:35:39,874 --> 00:35:42,114
Speaker 2: kind of stuff you have to do. And her kick

700
00:35:42,314 --> 00:35:43,114
Speaker 2: was freaking great.

701
00:35:43,194 --> 00:35:43,873
Speaker 1: Of course it was.

702
00:35:44,674 --> 00:35:48,474
Speaker 3: Can I say the idea of looking at Mary now

703
00:35:48,634 --> 00:35:51,714
Speaker 3: and seeing that she is doing this too, She's talking

704
00:35:51,714 --> 00:35:56,914
Speaker 3: about something really important and there's not all the because

705
00:35:56,914 --> 00:35:58,913
Speaker 3: you could see it as distraction that all the other

706
00:35:58,954 --> 00:36:02,714
Speaker 3: stuff is like, it's not actually courting attention that any

707
00:36:02,754 --> 00:36:06,314
Speaker 3: of them want. No, I'm finding that the older I get,

708
00:36:06,474 --> 00:36:11,514
Speaker 3: the more I enjoy and am looking forward to becoming

709
00:36:11,554 --> 00:36:12,474
Speaker 3: more and more invisible.

710
00:36:12,594 --> 00:36:17,554
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, No, To be clear, in the conversations that

711
00:36:17,594 --> 00:36:21,033
Speaker 2: midlife women have about invisibility, it's a double edged sword.

712
00:36:21,154 --> 00:36:23,154
Speaker 2: There is a lot that is so great. I look

713
00:36:23,194 --> 00:36:25,074
Speaker 2: at my teenage daughter. I've talked about this a lot.

714
00:36:25,354 --> 00:36:28,154
Speaker 2: There is a lot that is so great at having

715
00:36:28,274 --> 00:36:31,994
Speaker 2: the eyes of the world turn away from you. Like,

716
00:36:32,394 --> 00:36:34,473
Speaker 2: there's a lot that's kind of sad about it, but

717
00:36:34,514 --> 00:36:37,994
Speaker 2: there's also a lot that's incredibly freeing. I'm not suggesting

718
00:36:38,034 --> 00:36:41,314
Speaker 2: that Mary is sad that she isn't being papped at

719
00:36:41,314 --> 00:36:44,514
Speaker 2: every turn anymore. You know that she isn't being stalked

720
00:36:44,514 --> 00:36:46,674
Speaker 2: and her friends are being harassed. I bet she's delighted

721
00:36:46,714 --> 00:36:47,114
Speaker 2: about it.

722
00:36:47,194 --> 00:36:50,234
Speaker 3: I think there is so much power in that. I

723
00:36:50,274 --> 00:36:53,154
Speaker 3: was at a comedy show recently and a bunch of

724
00:36:53,154 --> 00:36:55,953
Speaker 3: comedians and one of them who got up is an

725
00:36:55,954 --> 00:37:00,714
Speaker 3: Aussie comedian who's in her sixties, and she got up

726
00:37:00,754 --> 00:37:03,634
Speaker 3: and I went, you are the most powerful person in

727
00:37:03,674 --> 00:37:07,994
Speaker 3: this room because you don't that. Her whole energy was

728
00:37:08,274 --> 00:37:10,674
Speaker 3: I don't have to impress you. I'm beyond that. I'm

729
00:37:10,714 --> 00:37:13,954
Speaker 3: beyond being judged by you. And I think as a woman,

730
00:37:13,994 --> 00:37:17,433
Speaker 3: it's a really, really exciting place to be and you

731
00:37:17,514 --> 00:37:19,674
Speaker 3: probably get to explore a whole lot of things and

732
00:37:20,154 --> 00:37:25,433
Speaker 3: passions and possibilities that you've wanted to and may have

733
00:37:25,514 --> 00:37:26,514
Speaker 3: been distracted from.

734
00:37:26,554 --> 00:37:29,393
Speaker 2: Look, that's a nice way of looking at it, to

735
00:37:29,514 --> 00:37:29,913
Speaker 2: think of it.

736
00:37:29,994 --> 00:37:32,274
Speaker 4: No one's told me to smile recently. Yes, it's not

737
00:37:32,354 --> 00:37:34,314
Speaker 4: because I'm smiling.

738
00:37:34,034 --> 00:37:39,194
Speaker 3: Smiling, No, it's because they're like, we don't care. I

739
00:37:39,234 --> 00:37:41,513
Speaker 3: think you do have a point, Holly, that it's sort

740
00:37:41,554 --> 00:37:45,274
Speaker 3: of also that Denmark is a bit of a not

741
00:37:45,354 --> 00:37:49,114
Speaker 3: a boring country, but it seems to like have its

742
00:37:49,114 --> 00:37:52,034
Speaker 3: shit together politically a little bit. So I think the

743
00:37:52,034 --> 00:37:56,074
Speaker 3: British royal family, like Megan being the American connection, all

744
00:37:56,154 --> 00:38:00,554
Speaker 3: of that, really we kind of maybe apply all the

745
00:38:00,634 --> 00:38:04,474
Speaker 3: drama of those countries to those people, whereas for Mary

746
00:38:04,674 --> 00:38:08,314
Speaker 3: and Frederick it's very much it's just not as much.

747
00:38:08,514 --> 00:38:11,714
Speaker 4: No, they're just enjoying their four years of parentally yeah, exactly.

748
00:38:11,794 --> 00:38:15,714
Speaker 4: Also to learn the language, this notoriously complicated language where

749
00:38:15,714 --> 00:38:18,834
Speaker 4: there are like lines through O's to the point where

750
00:38:19,194 --> 00:38:23,433
Speaker 4: she's talking English with a Danish accent. I mean, I

751
00:38:23,514 --> 00:38:24,433
Speaker 4: can't romantic.

752
00:38:24,754 --> 00:38:26,074
Speaker 1: I think that's impressive.

753
00:38:26,874 --> 00:38:29,794
Speaker 2: My theory that nobody's interested in middle aged women, which

754
00:38:29,794 --> 00:38:32,873
Speaker 2: obviously is a self deprecating theory from where I sit,

755
00:38:32,954 --> 00:38:34,794
Speaker 2: and I hope it isn't true, And there is one

756
00:38:34,834 --> 00:38:36,553
Speaker 2: sign that in fact it is not in the least

757
00:38:36,594 --> 00:38:38,393
Speaker 2: bit true. Well, one is that we're obsessed with looking

758
00:38:38,434 --> 00:38:39,874
Speaker 2: at them on the red carpet and trying to decide

759
00:38:39,874 --> 00:38:42,074
Speaker 2: what they've done to their faces obviously.

760
00:38:41,994 --> 00:38:45,034
Speaker 3: Is another sign. Is another sign that this is the

761
00:38:45,154 --> 00:38:48,034
Speaker 3: number one podcast in the country and.

762
00:38:48,514 --> 00:38:53,714
Speaker 2: One of us is old. But also Shonda Rhimes, the

763
00:38:53,794 --> 00:38:57,114
Speaker 2: queen of TV and of knowing what people want to watch.

764
00:38:57,154 --> 00:38:59,354
Speaker 2: She is obviously the brain's behind grays Anadoamy. She is

765
00:38:59,434 --> 00:39:02,953
Speaker 2: Bridgiton brain. Says that if there's going to be another

766
00:39:02,994 --> 00:39:04,834
Speaker 2: spin off, because you know, she did a Queen Charlotte

767
00:39:04,834 --> 00:39:06,954
Speaker 2: spinoff from Bridgton, I never watched.

768
00:39:07,154 --> 00:39:08,754
Speaker 3: Oh no, it was really good because it was like

769
00:39:08,954 --> 00:39:12,034
Speaker 3: loosely historical, like it made me google, like was that

770
00:39:12,034 --> 00:39:15,354
Speaker 3: guy crazy? And I really liked the young actress and

771
00:39:15,354 --> 00:39:16,674
Speaker 3: the old actor. Yeah. No, it was really good.

772
00:39:16,714 --> 00:39:19,714
Speaker 2: So that went like into the backstory of Queen Charlotte.

773
00:39:19,754 --> 00:39:20,074
Speaker 5: Correct.

774
00:39:20,474 --> 00:39:22,513
Speaker 2: She says that if she does do another, it will

775
00:39:22,554 --> 00:39:26,354
Speaker 2: be about Violet, like Lady Bridgeton, who's the mum character

776
00:39:26,554 --> 00:39:28,994
Speaker 2: in that. And one of the things that people have

777
00:39:29,074 --> 00:39:32,354
Speaker 2: really liked about the most recent series of Bridgeton is

778
00:39:32,354 --> 00:39:34,754
Speaker 2: that instead of just being the stressy one who's always

779
00:39:34,754 --> 00:39:36,953
Speaker 2: trying to find people for her children to marry, which

780
00:39:36,994 --> 00:39:40,914
Speaker 2: is the point of the show, she fell in love.

781
00:39:40,954 --> 00:39:43,314
Speaker 2: I guess we would call it. I'm definitely in lust

782
00:39:43,314 --> 00:39:45,434
Speaker 2: with a very handsome man and was having quite a

783
00:39:45,474 --> 00:39:49,354
Speaker 2: lot of sex, and people really liked it. And obviously Shonda,

784
00:39:49,514 --> 00:39:52,474
Speaker 2: who is no fool, is like, that's where we go next.

785
00:39:52,914 --> 00:39:53,433
Speaker 1: I don't know.

786
00:39:53,874 --> 00:39:58,274
Speaker 3: I just Violet. I'm a horrible, horrible person. But I

787
00:39:58,354 --> 00:39:59,554
Speaker 3: just don't think i'd watch that.

788
00:40:00,314 --> 00:40:00,674
Speaker 1: You know what.

789
00:40:00,714 --> 00:40:02,754
Speaker 2: It's just occurred to me. They probably would go into

790
00:40:02,794 --> 00:40:06,674
Speaker 2: her backstory, wouldn't they. It would probably be a young Violet.

791
00:40:07,154 --> 00:40:08,873
Speaker 3: She really loved her husband, didn't she?

792
00:40:08,874 --> 00:40:11,514
Speaker 2: She really did, and they had twenty five children together.

793
00:40:11,914 --> 00:40:14,794
Speaker 2: But it's interesting because when you say I wouldn't watch that,

794
00:40:14,874 --> 00:40:17,514
Speaker 2: I know what you mean. But do you think we

795
00:40:17,754 --> 00:40:21,513
Speaker 2: genuinely are a bit programmed to not be interested in

796
00:40:21,714 --> 00:40:23,274
Speaker 2: the love lives of middle aged people?

797
00:40:23,794 --> 00:40:26,314
Speaker 1: Well, big little lies would beg to different. That's true.

798
00:40:26,794 --> 00:40:28,354
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's horribly true.

799
00:40:28,434 --> 00:40:31,914
Speaker 3: The horrible thing to consider is do we care about

800
00:40:32,154 --> 00:40:34,794
Speaker 3: the love lives of middle aged people when they look

801
00:40:35,074 --> 00:40:37,274
Speaker 3: like young people? Do you know what I mean? Like,

802
00:40:37,554 --> 00:40:39,194
Speaker 3: big little lies, you've got.

803
00:40:39,314 --> 00:40:41,354
Speaker 1: I do think they have to be rich. I think

804
00:40:41,434 --> 00:40:42,114
Speaker 1: that's important.

805
00:40:42,394 --> 00:40:46,394
Speaker 3: That's important because I'm also thinking there was that mum

806
00:40:46,634 --> 00:40:50,114
Speaker 3: like she was maybe in her forties, bloody gorgeous, and

807
00:40:50,114 --> 00:40:53,034
Speaker 3: there was an Aussie guy it's called sex something.

808
00:40:53,114 --> 00:40:54,514
Speaker 2: Oh yeah who lived downstairs.

809
00:40:54,594 --> 00:40:56,554
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

810
00:40:56,634 --> 00:40:59,194
Speaker 2: Well, everybody's saying that midlife sex is getting a big

811
00:40:59,274 --> 00:41:01,433
Speaker 2: comeback after all fours and all those things. There are

812
00:41:01,474 --> 00:41:04,154
Speaker 2: lots of books about it, but I still think there's

813
00:41:04,194 --> 00:41:07,634
Speaker 2: a difference between a book and TV. I don't know.

814
00:41:07,674 --> 00:41:11,154
Speaker 2: I would love to think that we are getting better

815
00:41:11,594 --> 00:41:15,154
Speaker 2: at confronting our own ageism about whether or not we're

816
00:41:15,194 --> 00:41:18,474
Speaker 2: interested in whether or not fifty something women are having

817
00:41:18,514 --> 00:41:21,554
Speaker 2: sex and having excited relationships. Back kind of feel like

818
00:41:21,594 --> 00:41:22,674
Speaker 2: we're probably.

819
00:41:22,314 --> 00:41:23,873
Speaker 1: Not holy one thing.

820
00:41:24,154 --> 00:41:26,834
Speaker 4: I think you're onto something with this theory, But I

821
00:41:26,914 --> 00:41:32,394
Speaker 4: still don't get how it fits with Kate, because Princess

822
00:41:32,474 --> 00:41:35,554
Speaker 4: Kate has three children, she's well into her forties at

823
00:41:35,554 --> 00:41:39,754
Speaker 4: this point, and we're all still indisputably obsessed with her.

824
00:41:40,474 --> 00:41:42,354
Speaker 4: So how do you square that circle?

825
00:41:42,754 --> 00:41:46,034
Speaker 2: Do you think we are? Though? We were obsessed with

826
00:41:46,074 --> 00:41:49,714
Speaker 2: the story of when she you know, when she disappeared,

827
00:41:49,754 --> 00:41:52,314
Speaker 2: in what had happened, and obviously with her health journey,

828
00:41:52,314 --> 00:41:56,033
Speaker 2: and I think that that has also made people much

829
00:41:56,114 --> 00:41:59,234
Speaker 2: more sympathetic to her or most But do we look

830
00:41:59,274 --> 00:42:00,513
Speaker 2: at her as an icon?

831
00:42:00,674 --> 00:42:00,994
Speaker 6: Do we?

832
00:42:01,434 --> 00:42:03,154
Speaker 3: I think so and I am.

833
00:42:03,234 --> 00:42:05,834
Speaker 2: And if they came, would we be lining the street?

834
00:42:05,914 --> 00:42:06,234
Speaker 1: Yes?

835
00:42:07,274 --> 00:42:12,354
Speaker 2: They are categorically more popular than Charles and Camilla, and

836
00:42:12,514 --> 00:42:14,433
Speaker 2: more popular than Harry and Meggs.

837
00:42:14,874 --> 00:42:20,754
Speaker 3: And arguably, arguably when William becomes king, arguably more influential

838
00:42:21,234 --> 00:42:25,154
Speaker 3: in our lives. But I have never cared as much

839
00:42:25,154 --> 00:42:29,953
Speaker 3: about anything as when William allegedly cheated with Rose. Like

840
00:42:30,034 --> 00:42:32,034
Speaker 3: I cared, so I was like, don't do that to

841
00:42:32,154 --> 00:42:33,274
Speaker 3: my Kate.

842
00:42:34,194 --> 00:42:36,234
Speaker 2: Isn't that just a cheating story?

843
00:42:36,314 --> 00:42:37,114
Speaker 1: Yeah?

844
00:42:37,194 --> 00:42:40,154
Speaker 2: Yeah, look you well you might well be onto something there,

845
00:42:40,154 --> 00:42:43,194
Speaker 2: because I think people are obsessed with her, But I yeah,

846
00:42:43,314 --> 00:42:47,194
Speaker 2: I just I don't see her as quite as grown

847
00:42:47,274 --> 00:42:47,634
Speaker 2: up yet.

848
00:42:48,154 --> 00:42:50,873
Speaker 4: Look, we may not be as interested in Mary as

849
00:42:50,874 --> 00:42:54,873
Speaker 4: we once were, but I have a sneaky Wednesday recommendation

850
00:42:55,114 --> 00:42:58,754
Speaker 4: to end the show today, which is the book Air

851
00:42:58,834 --> 00:43:00,674
Speaker 4: Apparent by Rebecca Armatage.

852
00:43:00,794 --> 00:43:03,393
Speaker 2: I've seen it every I'm interviewing her soon.

853
00:43:03,874 --> 00:43:05,314
Speaker 1: It is a I read.

854
00:43:05,114 --> 00:43:06,754
Speaker 4: It on a plane, and I feel like books you

855
00:43:06,794 --> 00:43:09,474
Speaker 4: read on a plane, there's a really high bar because

856
00:43:09,514 --> 00:43:12,714
Speaker 4: you've got like all this terrible TV to watch and

857
00:43:12,994 --> 00:43:15,474
Speaker 4: you're just not concentrating. I read the whole thing on

858
00:43:15,514 --> 00:43:20,754
Speaker 4: a plane. She's a former ABC journalist who clearly knows

859
00:43:20,874 --> 00:43:22,434
Speaker 4: all there is to know about the history of the

860
00:43:22,434 --> 00:43:25,274
Speaker 4: British royal family. And what happens in the story is

861
00:43:25,314 --> 00:43:28,874
Speaker 4: that a Tasmanian girl marries into the British royal family.

862
00:43:28,994 --> 00:43:32,034
Speaker 4: It's very clearly based on Harry and William, but with

863
00:43:32,074 --> 00:43:36,234
Speaker 4: this Aussie twist, and it's just a tremendous look at

864
00:43:36,234 --> 00:43:39,194
Speaker 4: what it's like to be inside a royal family.

865
00:43:39,474 --> 00:43:42,994
Speaker 3: See Mary's still inspiring us the fairy Tale.

866
00:43:43,194 --> 00:43:46,714
Speaker 2: The fairy Tale Lives on out Louders thank you for

867
00:43:46,834 --> 00:43:49,513
Speaker 2: making us the number one podcast in the country. We

868
00:43:49,634 --> 00:43:52,954
Speaker 2: appreciate you so much. And we've got a little treat

869
00:43:53,114 --> 00:43:56,234
Speaker 2: for Mamma Mia subscribers at the moment, We've got an

870
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Speaker 2: exclusive bonus for anyone who subscribes to me. You can

871
00:43:59,034 --> 00:44:03,274
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872
00:44:03,274 --> 00:44:05,314
Speaker 2: a brand that we've talked about on out loud before.

873
00:44:05,634 --> 00:44:09,154
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874
00:44:09,194 --> 00:44:11,873
Speaker 2: I can vouch for Nala. They're an Australian brand. They're great.

875
00:44:12,354 --> 00:44:14,914
Speaker 2: Until April the first you can get twenty five percent

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Speaker 2: off Nala Bras if you're a subscriber, and if you

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00:44:17,674 --> 00:44:20,154
Speaker 2: become one now you also get to do that.

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Speaker 3: If you're not a subscriber yet. The girl Mouth's here

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00:44:22,994 --> 00:44:26,834
Speaker 3: is pretty simple, so that twenty five percent discount could

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00:44:26,874 --> 00:44:29,554
Speaker 3: cover the cost of a membership. There's a link in

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00:44:29,594 --> 00:44:30,274
Speaker 3: the show notes.

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Speaker 2: Bye Bye Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of the

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Speaker 2: land on which we've recorded this podcast.