1 00:00:10,614 --> 00:00:15,294 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges 2 00:00:15,334 --> 00:00:18,134 Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast 3 00:00:18,214 --> 00:00:18,934 Speaker 1: is recorded on. 4 00:00:20,934 --> 00:00:24,134 Speaker 2: Hey, I'm Taylor Strano. This is Mumma MIA's twice daily 5 00:00:24,174 --> 00:00:27,934 Speaker 2: news podcast, The Quickie. Yesterday we awoke to the news 6 00:00:27,934 --> 00:00:31,374 Speaker 2: that Australia, along with twenty four other nations, had signed 7 00:00:31,374 --> 00:00:35,294 Speaker 2: a renewed call for seatsfire in Gaza. So will this 8 00:00:35,374 --> 00:00:39,254 Speaker 2: new push for peace actually work before we get there? 9 00:00:39,334 --> 00:00:41,694 Speaker 2: Hughes Claire Murphy with the latest from the Quicki News 10 00:00:41,774 --> 00:00:44,094 Speaker 2: room for Wednesday, July twenty. 11 00:00:43,774 --> 00:00:47,574 Speaker 1: Three, Thanks Taylor. The Prince of Darkness, lead singer of 12 00:00:47,614 --> 00:00:50,894 Speaker 1: heavy metal band Black Sabbath and star of reality television, 13 00:00:50,934 --> 00:00:54,934 Speaker 1: Ozzy Osbourne has died, aged seventy six. The rocker, who 14 00:00:54,974 --> 00:00:57,254 Speaker 1: is credited with being one of the founders of heavy 15 00:00:57,294 --> 00:01:00,494 Speaker 1: metal music, lived a chaotic rock star life during the 16 00:01:00,534 --> 00:01:03,574 Speaker 1: height of his band's fame, filled with drugs, alcohol and 17 00:01:03,654 --> 00:01:07,494 Speaker 1: making music. Then there was that iconic and controversial moment 18 00:01:07,494 --> 00:01:10,694 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty two when during a life performance in Iowa, 19 00:01:10,854 --> 00:01:13,614 Speaker 1: Osborne bit the head off a bat, something the singer 20 00:01:13,654 --> 00:01:16,334 Speaker 1: said he knows will end up written on his Tombstone, 21 00:01:16,494 --> 00:01:18,494 Speaker 1: While he split with the band in the late seventies 22 00:01:18,534 --> 00:01:21,894 Speaker 1: due to his excessive substance abuse issues. Osborne went on 23 00:01:21,974 --> 00:01:25,374 Speaker 1: to have a successful solo career, crediting his later in 24 00:01:25,414 --> 00:01:28,534 Speaker 1: life success to his wife Sharon, who start alongside him 25 00:01:28,574 --> 00:01:31,254 Speaker 1: in the two thousand and two reality show The Osborne's. 26 00:01:31,614 --> 00:01:33,654 Speaker 1: It was through the show that people saw a different 27 00:01:33,734 --> 00:01:36,454 Speaker 1: side to the Prince of Darkness, showing inside into the 28 00:01:36,454 --> 00:01:39,054 Speaker 1: life of an aging rock star still struggling with staying 29 00:01:39,094 --> 00:01:42,214 Speaker 1: sober and having disagreements with two of his younger children, 30 00:01:42,334 --> 00:01:45,574 Speaker 1: Kelly and Jack. Black. Sabbath got back together in twenty 31 00:01:45,614 --> 00:01:48,494 Speaker 1: eleven to play a farewell tour, also releasing a new 32 00:01:48,534 --> 00:01:52,134 Speaker 1: album in twenty thirteen, which top both UK and US chants, 33 00:01:52,374 --> 00:01:54,654 Speaker 1: Osborne saying he didn't like how he and the band 34 00:01:54,654 --> 00:01:56,774 Speaker 1: had ended back in the day and felt like he 35 00:01:56,774 --> 00:01:59,734 Speaker 1: could now rest his head and die happy man. His 36 00:01:59,814 --> 00:02:02,734 Speaker 1: health deteriorated over time, and he stopped performing with the 37 00:02:02,734 --> 00:02:05,494 Speaker 1: band in twenty seventeen and had to stop touring as 38 00:02:05,534 --> 00:02:08,454 Speaker 1: a solo artist in twenty twenty three, but not before 39 00:02:08,494 --> 00:02:11,054 Speaker 1: performing in the closing ceremony of the twenty twenty two 40 00:02:11,294 --> 00:02:14,894 Speaker 1: UK Commonwealth Games. Earlier this year, he announced his last 41 00:02:14,894 --> 00:02:18,254 Speaker 1: ever show at his beloved football team, Aston Villa's stadium, 42 00:02:18,534 --> 00:02:20,894 Speaker 1: singing from a black throne that rose up from the 43 00:02:20,974 --> 00:02:24,254 Speaker 1: depths of the stage below. His family released a statement 44 00:02:24,334 --> 00:02:26,854 Speaker 1: saying it is with more sadness than mere words can 45 00:02:26,894 --> 00:02:29,654 Speaker 1: convey that we have to report that our beloved Ozzie 46 00:02:29,694 --> 00:02:32,374 Speaker 1: Osbourne has passed away this morning. He was with his 47 00:02:32,414 --> 00:02:35,654 Speaker 1: family and surrounded by love. We ask everyone to respect 48 00:02:35,694 --> 00:02:39,694 Speaker 1: our family privacy at this time. Accused pedophile Joshua Dale 49 00:02:39,734 --> 00:02:42,414 Speaker 1: Brown's court case has been delayed as detectives say they 50 00:02:42,414 --> 00:02:45,694 Speaker 1: need more time to gather evidence against him. The childcare 51 00:02:45,734 --> 00:02:47,854 Speaker 1: worker did not appear for a brief hearing in the 52 00:02:47,894 --> 00:02:51,894 Speaker 1: Melbourne Magistrate's Court yesterday when prosecutors applied to extend his 53 00:02:51,934 --> 00:02:54,934 Speaker 1: committal mentioned date. Brown was due to return to court 54 00:02:54,974 --> 00:02:58,654 Speaker 1: in September, but Magistrate Donna Beacos on Tuesday granted the 55 00:02:58,654 --> 00:03:02,294 Speaker 1: prosecution's application to push his next hearing back to February ten. 56 00:03:02,734 --> 00:03:06,254 Speaker 1: She accepted detectives needed more time for their investigation and 57 00:03:06,294 --> 00:03:08,734 Speaker 1: it was likely more charges would be laid in the interim. 58 00:03:09,014 --> 00:03:12,014 Speaker 1: It's a led which Brown abused eight children aged under 59 00:03:12,014 --> 00:03:15,054 Speaker 1: two at a Point Cook Center in Melbourne Southwest between 60 00:03:15,094 --> 00:03:18,574 Speaker 1: April twenty twenty two and January twenty twenty three. The 61 00:03:18,654 --> 00:03:21,494 Speaker 1: Creative Garden Early Learning Center was one of the twenty 62 00:03:21,534 --> 00:03:25,254 Speaker 1: four childcare sites Brown worked out across Melbourne between January 63 00:03:25,294 --> 00:03:28,814 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen and his arrest. The charge sheets state he 64 00:03:28,894 --> 00:03:32,454 Speaker 1: intentionally sexually touched an unknown child where the touching was 65 00:03:32,534 --> 00:03:37,494 Speaker 1: contrary to community standards of acceptable conduct, on thirteen separate occasions. 66 00:03:37,574 --> 00:03:41,214 Speaker 1: Brown is also accused of producing and transmitting child abuse material, 67 00:03:41,534 --> 00:03:44,534 Speaker 1: engaging in sexual activity in the presence of children, and 68 00:03:44,574 --> 00:03:48,254 Speaker 1: sexually penetrating children under the age of twelve. According to 69 00:03:48,334 --> 00:03:51,494 Speaker 1: local health officials, a six week old infant is amongst 70 00:03:51,534 --> 00:03:54,534 Speaker 1: fifteen people who've died of starvation in the Gaza Strip 71 00:03:54,534 --> 00:03:58,334 Speaker 1: in the past twenty four hours, with malnutrition killing Palestinians 72 00:03:58,374 --> 00:04:01,054 Speaker 1: faster than at any point in the twenty one month war. 73 00:04:01,534 --> 00:04:04,334 Speaker 1: The family of the child, Yusuf, could not find baby 74 00:04:04,334 --> 00:04:08,294 Speaker 1: formula to feed him, his uncle Adam al Safidi, explaining 75 00:04:08,334 --> 00:04:10,694 Speaker 1: that they couldn't get milk any anywhere, and even if 76 00:04:10,694 --> 00:04:13,454 Speaker 1: they did, it's one hundred dollars US for a tub. 77 00:04:13,814 --> 00:04:16,334 Speaker 1: Three of the other Palestinians who died of hunger over 78 00:04:16,334 --> 00:04:19,814 Speaker 1: the last day, were also children. Israeli forces have killed 79 00:04:19,854 --> 00:04:24,454 Speaker 1: nearly sixty thousand Palestinians in airstrikes, shelling and shootings since 80 00:04:24,494 --> 00:04:26,614 Speaker 1: the launch of their assault on the Gaza Strip in 81 00:04:26,654 --> 00:04:29,894 Speaker 1: response to attacks on Israel by the Hamas militant group 82 00:04:29,934 --> 00:04:32,534 Speaker 1: that killed twelve hundred people and captured more than two 83 00:04:32,654 --> 00:04:36,374 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty hostages. In October twenty twenty three. For 84 00:04:36,414 --> 00:04:39,654 Speaker 1: the first time since the war began, Palestinian officials say 85 00:04:39,774 --> 00:04:43,174 Speaker 1: dozens and now also dying of hunger. The first person 86 00:04:43,254 --> 00:04:45,334 Speaker 1: to claim the scalp of an opposition leader at a 87 00:04:45,334 --> 00:04:48,414 Speaker 1: federal election has recounted her path to Parliament In an 88 00:04:48,414 --> 00:04:52,614 Speaker 1: emotional first speech. Dixon MP Ali France, who unseated former 89 00:04:52,614 --> 00:04:55,534 Speaker 1: Opposition leader Peter Dutton at the may Pole, spoke of 90 00:04:55,574 --> 00:04:58,214 Speaker 1: the painful loss of her nineteen year old son, Henry, 91 00:04:58,254 --> 00:05:01,414 Speaker 1: who died from leukemia in February twenty twenty four after 92 00:05:01,454 --> 00:05:04,574 Speaker 1: an eighteen month battle. In her first speech to Parliament, 93 00:05:04,614 --> 00:05:07,254 Speaker 1: she spoke of her late son's courage and him being 94 00:05:07,294 --> 00:05:10,774 Speaker 1: the drive behind her campaign. He told her many times 95 00:05:10,774 --> 00:05:13,494 Speaker 1: that this election was her time. He was convinced she 96 00:05:13,534 --> 00:05:16,174 Speaker 1: would win and said a number of times. Don't make 97 00:05:16,254 --> 00:05:19,334 Speaker 1: me the excuse for you not doing important things. She 98 00:05:19,374 --> 00:05:21,854 Speaker 1: went on to say his words his courage were with 99 00:05:21,934 --> 00:05:24,494 Speaker 1: her every day of the campaign and that Henry was 100 00:05:24,534 --> 00:05:27,814 Speaker 1: instrumental in getting her to this place. Miss Franz says 101 00:05:27,814 --> 00:05:30,374 Speaker 1: her epic journey to sitting in Federal Parliament was not 102 00:05:30,454 --> 00:05:33,094 Speaker 1: part of any grand plan, but rather the result of 103 00:05:33,214 --> 00:05:36,334 Speaker 1: hundreds of little steps. That's the latest news headlines, and 104 00:05:36,374 --> 00:05:38,574 Speaker 1: if you're after more celebrity news, head to link in 105 00:05:38,614 --> 00:05:41,374 Speaker 1: our show notes for the spills daily entertainment headlines. 106 00:05:41,854 --> 00:05:44,934 Speaker 2: Thanks Claire. Next, the latest call for an end to 107 00:05:44,974 --> 00:05:52,854 Speaker 2: the war in Gaza. Yesterday's episode of The Quickie focused 108 00:05:52,894 --> 00:05:56,534 Speaker 2: on a new era of Australian politics. But as sitting 109 00:05:56,574 --> 00:05:59,894 Speaker 2: of the forty eighth Parliament got underway inside Parliament House, 110 00:06:00,094 --> 00:06:04,734 Speaker 2: outside a three day rally was concluding. Thousands of people 111 00:06:04,774 --> 00:06:08,534 Speaker 2: came together demanding the Australian government take a tougher stance 112 00:06:08,814 --> 00:06:12,214 Speaker 2: and impose real sanctions on Israel for their part in 113 00:06:12,254 --> 00:06:16,734 Speaker 2: the humanitarian crisis still unfolding in Gaza. Now, as all 114 00:06:16,774 --> 00:06:20,094 Speaker 2: of that was happening, Australia's Foreign Minister, Pennywoe Co signed 115 00:06:20,134 --> 00:06:23,454 Speaker 2: a joint statement with twenty four other countries demanding that 116 00:06:23,614 --> 00:06:26,334 Speaker 2: Israel end its more on the Gaza Strip and lift 117 00:06:26,374 --> 00:06:31,934 Speaker 2: all restrictions on aid. Reported numbers show seventeen thousand Palestinian 118 00:06:32,014 --> 00:06:35,174 Speaker 2: children have now been killed by Israeli military action in 119 00:06:35,254 --> 00:06:39,694 Speaker 2: Gaza during the twenty two month long conflict. Recent reports 120 00:06:39,854 --> 00:06:42,414 Speaker 2: verified by the United Nations say that more than eight 121 00:06:42,574 --> 00:06:45,334 Speaker 2: hundred people have died while trying to get food and 122 00:06:45,494 --> 00:06:48,774 Speaker 2: aid in Gaza. Many of these debts happened near new 123 00:06:48,854 --> 00:06:52,734 Speaker 2: distribution centers managed by a local organization called the Gaza 124 00:06:52,814 --> 00:06:58,454 Speaker 2: Humanitarian Foundation, which is supported by the United States and Israel. Now. 125 00:06:58,534 --> 00:07:01,414 Speaker 2: This group began working after aid delivery by the United 126 00:07:01,494 --> 00:07:05,654 Speaker 2: Nations was reduced. Some international aid groups and UN officials 127 00:07:05,774 --> 00:07:09,214 Speaker 2: have raised concerns about the new system and its impact 128 00:07:09,374 --> 00:07:13,254 Speaker 2: on safety and humanitarian access. Back to that joint statement. 129 00:07:13,494 --> 00:07:17,734 Speaker 2: Amongst Australia, signatories include New Zealand, Japan, and a host 130 00:07:17,774 --> 00:07:21,614 Speaker 2: of European countries, but two prominent names are missing from 131 00:07:21,614 --> 00:07:25,294 Speaker 2: that statement, the United States and Germany, who've chosen not 132 00:07:25,334 --> 00:07:29,134 Speaker 2: to add their voices. American officials have described the joint 133 00:07:29,214 --> 00:07:33,614 Speaker 2: letter as disgusting, and Germany, while expressing deep concern privately 134 00:07:33,854 --> 00:07:37,174 Speaker 2: have refrained from the coordinated step, along with a handful 135 00:07:37,214 --> 00:07:42,094 Speaker 2: of other European states. That raises a tough question. Without 136 00:07:42,174 --> 00:07:46,934 Speaker 2: broad international unity, including Israel's most powerful ally, how much 137 00:07:46,974 --> 00:07:50,294 Speaker 2: hope is there that this diplomatic pressure will actually lead 138 00:07:50,334 --> 00:07:54,294 Speaker 2: to change. For their part, Israel promptly rejected the letter, 139 00:07:54,414 --> 00:07:58,054 Speaker 2: calling it disconnected from reality and accusing the signatories of 140 00:07:58,094 --> 00:08:03,294 Speaker 2: sending the wrong message to Hamas. Meanwhile, the humanitarian cost 141 00:08:03,494 --> 00:08:07,974 Speaker 2: does grow. Food supplies are running out, medical services have crumbled, 142 00:08:08,054 --> 00:08:11,054 Speaker 2: and more than two million guns, half of them children 143 00:08:11,294 --> 00:08:16,134 Speaker 2: now face unspeakable levels of suffering. The United Nations and 144 00:08:16,214 --> 00:08:19,134 Speaker 2: UNICEF say Gaza is the deadliest place in the world 145 00:08:19,174 --> 00:08:20,774 Speaker 2: right now to be a child. 146 00:08:21,534 --> 00:08:22,894 Speaker 1: So what's next? 147 00:08:23,094 --> 00:08:25,854 Speaker 2: Will this push from Australia and twenty four other key 148 00:08:25,894 --> 00:08:28,854 Speaker 2: allies make a difference? Is there any chance of a 149 00:08:28,894 --> 00:08:32,214 Speaker 2: permanent ceasefire to help us unpack it all? We're joined 150 00:08:32,254 --> 00:08:35,574 Speaker 2: by seeing the lecturer in international relations at Flinders University, 151 00:08:35,654 --> 00:08:39,054 Speaker 2: doctor Jessicenauer. Jess Now, this is not the first time 152 00:08:39,094 --> 00:08:42,454 Speaker 2: that nations have bounded together calling for a seasfire like this, 153 00:08:42,694 --> 00:08:47,214 Speaker 2: signing a joint statement does this time, though, seem different 154 00:08:47,214 --> 00:08:47,454 Speaker 2: to you. 155 00:08:48,174 --> 00:08:51,574 Speaker 3: So I think that what we're seeing is an intensification 156 00:08:52,094 --> 00:08:58,294 Speaker 3: of activity from countries primarily in Europe, but also including 157 00:08:58,414 --> 00:09:03,374 Speaker 3: European partners such as Canada, Australia, and New Zealand in 158 00:09:03,414 --> 00:09:08,854 Speaker 3: this case also Japan, calling for something to change, something 159 00:09:08,894 --> 00:09:14,134 Speaker 3: to shift in the humanitarian crisis that we're seeing ongoing 160 00:09:14,774 --> 00:09:19,294 Speaker 3: in the Gaza Strip and the ongoing war between Israel 161 00:09:19,334 --> 00:09:22,534 Speaker 3: and Hamas and all of the fallout and human costs 162 00:09:22,734 --> 00:09:26,614 Speaker 3: from that war. However, at the same time, whilst this 163 00:09:26,774 --> 00:09:30,934 Speaker 3: does seem symbolically important and that maybe these type of 164 00:09:31,014 --> 00:09:34,254 Speaker 3: statements are becoming a little more widespread in terms of 165 00:09:34,294 --> 00:09:37,014 Speaker 3: the number of countries that are signing up, we're still 166 00:09:37,054 --> 00:09:41,214 Speaker 3: not really seeing anything tangible coming out of these sort 167 00:09:41,214 --> 00:09:44,334 Speaker 3: of efforts. So, yes, there's a statement. Yes, the statement 168 00:09:44,454 --> 00:09:48,814 Speaker 3: calls for a ceasefire, calls for the release of hostages, 169 00:09:48,894 --> 00:09:52,294 Speaker 3: calls for an end to the humanitarian crisis, but it 170 00:09:52,374 --> 00:09:58,934 Speaker 3: doesn't actually impose any kind of costs if those actions 171 00:09:59,494 --> 00:10:00,454 Speaker 3: do not take place. 172 00:10:00,814 --> 00:10:04,214 Speaker 2: So notably, of the twenty five nations who did co sign, 173 00:10:04,454 --> 00:10:07,934 Speaker 2: the United States and other countries like Germany did not 174 00:10:08,174 --> 00:10:11,454 Speaker 2: sign this latest call immediate seats fire can you give 175 00:10:11,494 --> 00:10:13,534 Speaker 2: us a bit of insight into why that might be. 176 00:10:14,214 --> 00:10:19,014 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. So importantly Germany didn't sign who kind 177 00:10:19,014 --> 00:10:22,654 Speaker 3: of have their own relationship with Israel and have been 178 00:10:22,774 --> 00:10:26,454 Speaker 3: very reticent to be critical of Israel, even though they 179 00:10:26,534 --> 00:10:29,974 Speaker 3: have started to become a little more critical of some 180 00:10:30,054 --> 00:10:33,894 Speaker 3: aspects of what's happening since Israel's response to those October 181 00:10:33,934 --> 00:10:36,854 Speaker 3: seven attacks from Hamas, and some of that goes all 182 00:10:36,894 --> 00:10:39,094 Speaker 3: the way back to the Second World War and then 183 00:10:39,254 --> 00:10:43,014 Speaker 3: obviously the Holocaust and the ongoing relationship between Germany and 184 00:10:43,174 --> 00:10:46,094 Speaker 3: Israel as a result of that. I think the other 185 00:10:46,214 --> 00:10:49,294 Speaker 3: country that we really need to pay attention to is 186 00:10:49,334 --> 00:10:53,414 Speaker 3: the United States, and very significantly, the United States is 187 00:10:53,494 --> 00:10:56,214 Speaker 3: not a signatory to this statement, and in many ways 188 00:10:56,254 --> 00:11:00,974 Speaker 3: that does make the statement quite toothless, because, yes, you 189 00:11:01,014 --> 00:11:03,694 Speaker 3: can put out a declaration, but the question is if 190 00:11:03,734 --> 00:11:06,654 Speaker 3: you're trying to change the behavior of a state. So, 191 00:11:06,854 --> 00:11:09,174 Speaker 3: if this group of countries is actually trying to change 192 00:11:09,214 --> 00:11:13,214 Speaker 3: israel behavior, what is the mechanism or the pathway to 193 00:11:13,254 --> 00:11:17,094 Speaker 3: actually change a state's behavior. That state would need to 194 00:11:17,294 --> 00:11:20,574 Speaker 3: believe that there are going to be costs imposed on 195 00:11:20,654 --> 00:11:24,094 Speaker 3: them if they do not comply with what's being requested, 196 00:11:24,614 --> 00:11:28,574 Speaker 3: and as we've seen, the United States is really probably 197 00:11:28,614 --> 00:11:32,014 Speaker 3: the only country that has that kind of leverage currently 198 00:11:32,254 --> 00:11:37,694 Speaker 3: over Israel and could actually compel the Israeli government to 199 00:11:37,814 --> 00:11:41,174 Speaker 3: change policy or change TAC if they wanted to. But 200 00:11:41,254 --> 00:11:45,454 Speaker 3: it's another question whether the Trump administration will pursue that path. 201 00:11:45,974 --> 00:11:49,654 Speaker 2: It's interesting, though, right because Donald Trump himself has touted 202 00:11:49,694 --> 00:11:53,454 Speaker 2: being able to get this ceasefire deal between Hamas and Israel. 203 00:11:53,534 --> 00:11:56,414 Speaker 2: He's been quite vocal about wanting that to be the case, 204 00:11:56,774 --> 00:12:00,174 Speaker 2: but they haven't signed on to this document. What would 205 00:12:00,214 --> 00:12:01,894 Speaker 2: it take for the US to sign on? 206 00:12:02,574 --> 00:12:04,654 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. So I don't think that the US 207 00:12:04,814 --> 00:12:08,894 Speaker 3: under a Trump administration would ever sign a sort of collaborative, 208 00:12:09,734 --> 00:12:13,174 Speaker 3: multi party declaration such as this, because it's just not 209 00:12:13,334 --> 00:12:17,374 Speaker 3: really the modus operandi of the Trump government. But what 210 00:12:17,414 --> 00:12:20,334 Speaker 3: I do think we would see is that Trump himself 211 00:12:20,374 --> 00:12:24,374 Speaker 3: and his administration would very much like to see some 212 00:12:24,494 --> 00:12:28,214 Speaker 3: kind of cessation of hostilities or more permanent ceasefire in 213 00:12:28,294 --> 00:12:30,814 Speaker 3: the Israel Hamas war, and they would like to claim 214 00:12:30,934 --> 00:12:35,734 Speaker 3: exclusive credit for that unilaterally as the United States. Now, 215 00:12:35,774 --> 00:12:39,614 Speaker 3: I think that what Trump is finding is that pushing 216 00:12:39,654 --> 00:12:42,894 Speaker 3: towards a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas is much more 217 00:12:42,894 --> 00:12:46,934 Speaker 3: complicated than, for example, the ceasefire that took effect between 218 00:12:46,934 --> 00:12:50,134 Speaker 3: Iran and Israel, because essentially Iran and Israel were both 219 00:12:50,254 --> 00:12:54,174 Speaker 3: willing to agree to the terms of that ceasefire, Whereas 220 00:12:54,454 --> 00:12:58,894 Speaker 3: between Israel and Hamas it's more complicated because there are 221 00:12:58,934 --> 00:13:01,894 Speaker 3: just red lines for both sides that they are not 222 00:13:02,014 --> 00:13:05,294 Speaker 3: willing to agree to and that the US really hasn't 223 00:13:05,334 --> 00:13:09,454 Speaker 3: managed to make much movement on, which is around number one, 224 00:13:09,534 --> 00:13:12,654 Speaker 3: will there remain an Israeli military presence in the Gaza 225 00:13:12,694 --> 00:13:16,734 Speaker 3: Strip And that's a real indivisible issue between the two sides. 226 00:13:17,054 --> 00:13:19,854 Speaker 3: And then also what will be the governance of the 227 00:13:19,894 --> 00:13:23,454 Speaker 3: Gaza Strip? And on those two issues, we haven't managed 228 00:13:23,454 --> 00:13:25,614 Speaker 3: to get any agreement between Israel and Hamas. 229 00:13:26,014 --> 00:13:28,974 Speaker 2: Jess, we spoke to you back in August last year, 230 00:13:29,014 --> 00:13:33,294 Speaker 2: specifically about what is acceptable in war. We've seen so 231 00:13:33,374 --> 00:13:35,974 Speaker 2: many horrific reports coming out of this part of the 232 00:13:36,014 --> 00:13:40,414 Speaker 2: world in the last eighteen odd months. Does targeting people 233 00:13:40,534 --> 00:13:43,974 Speaker 2: waiting for aid land in that territory of what is 234 00:13:44,014 --> 00:13:46,934 Speaker 2: acceptable in war or have we crossed into another point here, 235 00:13:47,054 --> 00:13:49,254 Speaker 2: because we saw lots of reports in the last week 236 00:13:49,374 --> 00:13:52,294 Speaker 2: or so about hundreds of people being targeted as they 237 00:13:52,294 --> 00:13:55,374 Speaker 2: waited to receive their aid, their food, their water rations, 238 00:13:55,374 --> 00:13:56,054 Speaker 2: that kind of thing. 239 00:13:56,694 --> 00:14:00,614 Speaker 3: One of the core principles of international humanitarian law is 240 00:14:00,894 --> 00:14:07,014 Speaker 3: that countries must make a distinction between combatants and non combatants. 241 00:14:07,094 --> 00:14:10,534 Speaker 3: And that's because even in war zones which are by 242 00:14:10,614 --> 00:14:13,574 Speaker 3: their very nature quite inhumane, because people are trying to 243 00:14:13,654 --> 00:14:17,414 Speaker 3: kill other people, which is ultimately an inhumane act, at 244 00:14:17,414 --> 00:14:21,374 Speaker 3: the same time, we want to be able to ensure 245 00:14:21,894 --> 00:14:25,934 Speaker 3: that people who are existing within those war zones can 246 00:14:26,094 --> 00:14:31,934 Speaker 3: still remain alive, can still get access to basic food stuffs, water, medicines, 247 00:14:32,014 --> 00:14:35,014 Speaker 3: et cetera. Now it does seem to be the case 248 00:14:35,134 --> 00:14:38,774 Speaker 3: that in Gaza, approximately two million people still in Gaza 249 00:14:38,894 --> 00:14:43,614 Speaker 3: are not getting free access to food, to clean water, 250 00:14:44,054 --> 00:14:48,134 Speaker 3: to medicines. So, yes, that is an area where as 251 00:14:48,174 --> 00:14:51,374 Speaker 3: we often see with international law, arguments are made to 252 00:14:51,414 --> 00:14:54,014 Speaker 3: both sides, and it's not that with international law it's 253 00:14:54,054 --> 00:14:56,334 Speaker 3: always clear cut. But I think that we can say 254 00:14:56,374 --> 00:15:00,454 Speaker 3: with the escalating humanitarian crisis in Gaza that we are 255 00:15:00,534 --> 00:15:05,334 Speaker 3: seeing a situation where the general population is not getting 256 00:15:05,374 --> 00:15:09,934 Speaker 3: access to the basic needs that they require in order 257 00:15:10,174 --> 00:15:13,174 Speaker 3: to live in a decent and reasonable way, and that 258 00:15:13,254 --> 00:15:15,654 Speaker 3: is one of those core principles. There should be a 259 00:15:15,694 --> 00:15:19,534 Speaker 3: distinction between combatants and non combatants in a war zone. 260 00:15:19,814 --> 00:15:23,734 Speaker 2: What's this done to Israel's standing in the global community? 261 00:15:23,734 --> 00:15:26,894 Speaker 2: I mean, the International Criminal Court issued to rest warrants 262 00:15:26,894 --> 00:15:29,734 Speaker 2: for Benjamin Etnahu and the former defense minister you are 263 00:15:29,854 --> 00:15:34,134 Speaker 2: gallant back in November last year. How does the rest 264 00:15:34,174 --> 00:15:37,334 Speaker 2: of the world in general see and interact with Israel 265 00:15:37,374 --> 00:15:38,414 Speaker 2: at this point in time. 266 00:15:38,894 --> 00:15:43,134 Speaker 3: So I think that after Hamas's attacks on October seventh, 267 00:15:43,254 --> 00:15:47,654 Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, there was actually a lot of outrage 268 00:15:47,694 --> 00:15:49,494 Speaker 3: looking on at those attacks, and there was a lot 269 00:15:49,494 --> 00:15:52,734 Speaker 3: of sympathy for Israel in some ways as a result 270 00:15:52,734 --> 00:15:56,294 Speaker 3: of those events. But I think that since then, as 271 00:15:56,334 --> 00:16:00,134 Speaker 3: we've seen the air strikes continue on the Gaza Strip 272 00:16:00,414 --> 00:16:03,934 Speaker 3: and the borders to the Gaza Strip are essentially closed 273 00:16:03,974 --> 00:16:06,174 Speaker 3: and enough aid is not getting in for the people 274 00:16:06,174 --> 00:16:09,694 Speaker 3: who are there. So as we're seeing this situation he 275 00:16:09,774 --> 00:16:13,454 Speaker 3: knew and grind on month after months, I think we 276 00:16:13,534 --> 00:16:17,614 Speaker 3: are definitely seeing a decline in support from Israel from 277 00:16:17,654 --> 00:16:20,774 Speaker 3: countries who are even quite strong supporters of Israel. So 278 00:16:20,814 --> 00:16:23,894 Speaker 3: we've seen the Australian government has typically had quite a 279 00:16:23,934 --> 00:16:26,174 Speaker 3: good relationship with Israel, and I think in some ways 280 00:16:26,214 --> 00:16:29,374 Speaker 3: wants to maintain that across some dimensions. We have countries 281 00:16:29,414 --> 00:16:31,774 Speaker 3: like the UK that have had a good and long 282 00:16:31,814 --> 00:16:36,934 Speaker 3: standing relationship with Israel, but we are seeing increasingly countries 283 00:16:37,214 --> 00:16:39,814 Speaker 3: speaking out and saying, look, it's not that we don't 284 00:16:39,814 --> 00:16:42,054 Speaker 3: support Israel at all, it's not that we don't support 285 00:16:42,094 --> 00:16:45,334 Speaker 3: Israel's right to exist, but there has to be some 286 00:16:45,454 --> 00:16:50,694 Speaker 3: action now taken to address the clear humanitarian crisis in Gaza. 287 00:16:51,254 --> 00:16:53,814 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad that you mentioned Australia there. Does it 288 00:16:53,854 --> 00:16:56,334 Speaker 2: feel like maybe the Prime Minister is taking a more 289 00:16:56,374 --> 00:16:59,574 Speaker 2: hardline approach? I mean, last week we saw him describe 290 00:16:59,574 --> 00:17:03,694 Speaker 2: the reported killings of those Palestinians seeking aid as completely 291 00:17:03,694 --> 00:17:07,814 Speaker 2: indefensible and that Israel is losing support by its own actions. 292 00:17:07,814 --> 00:17:10,854 Speaker 2: Do we feel like maybe the Toney shifting ever so 293 00:17:10,894 --> 00:17:12,214 Speaker 2: slightly within our own government? 294 00:17:12,774 --> 00:17:16,054 Speaker 3: I think that overall the Albanesi government has taken quite 295 00:17:16,174 --> 00:17:20,534 Speaker 3: a cautious approach to their stance on Israel, and some 296 00:17:20,614 --> 00:17:23,934 Speaker 3: of that was before the last federal election, where they 297 00:17:23,934 --> 00:17:26,774 Speaker 3: were really trying to make sure that they didn't come 298 00:17:26,814 --> 00:17:31,134 Speaker 3: out too strongly. I think to either side in some ways, 299 00:17:31,174 --> 00:17:33,934 Speaker 3: they made some statements condemning Israel's actions, but at the 300 00:17:33,974 --> 00:17:37,014 Speaker 3: same time didn't really follow those up with anything further. 301 00:17:37,734 --> 00:17:41,214 Speaker 3: I think we're seeing a slight shift in tone, but 302 00:17:41,334 --> 00:17:44,254 Speaker 3: I think that this is very much coming along with 303 00:17:44,614 --> 00:17:48,654 Speaker 3: Australia's partners and allies around the world, with the exclusion 304 00:17:48,694 --> 00:17:51,534 Speaker 3: of the United States, but partners and allies in Europe 305 00:17:51,814 --> 00:17:56,014 Speaker 3: Canada who are making even stronger statements themselves. So I 306 00:17:56,054 --> 00:17:59,934 Speaker 3: think that under that umbrella, Australian government is feeling a 307 00:17:59,974 --> 00:18:04,534 Speaker 3: little more comfortable to start to change tone themselves without 308 00:18:04,654 --> 00:18:09,134 Speaker 3: stepping out too far ahead of what our partners around 309 00:18:09,134 --> 00:18:12,534 Speaker 3: the world a saying and doing. So I would say overall, yes, 310 00:18:12,654 --> 00:18:15,854 Speaker 3: a slight shift in tone, but a generally cautious approach 311 00:18:15,894 --> 00:18:17,134 Speaker 3: from the Albanese government. 312 00:18:17,374 --> 00:18:19,774 Speaker 2: All right, just what happens now? Then? Twenty five of 313 00:18:19,814 --> 00:18:23,134 Speaker 2: these nations have signed onto this push for immediate ceasefire. 314 00:18:23,294 --> 00:18:26,334 Speaker 2: Israel has already rejected the statement, saying that the situation 315 00:18:26,494 --> 00:18:28,894 Speaker 2: is the fault of Hamas. Where do we go from here? 316 00:18:29,374 --> 00:18:31,774 Speaker 3: So I don't honestly think that this statement will be 317 00:18:31,774 --> 00:18:34,654 Speaker 3: the deciding factor. I think the deciding factor will be 318 00:18:35,094 --> 00:18:38,974 Speaker 3: does Trump actually try to put a large amount of 319 00:18:39,014 --> 00:18:43,014 Speaker 3: pressure on the Israeli Prime Minister to accept a cessation 320 00:18:43,094 --> 00:18:46,854 Speaker 3: of hostilities. We know that Hamas there are ongoing negotiations 321 00:18:46,854 --> 00:18:49,894 Speaker 3: that involve Katar as well. We know that Hamas would 322 00:18:49,894 --> 00:18:52,854 Speaker 3: accept some kind of cessation of hostilities, but they would 323 00:18:52,894 --> 00:18:55,814 Speaker 3: like a more permanent ceasefire. There are still those sticking 324 00:18:55,814 --> 00:18:59,254 Speaker 3: points between Israel and Hamas on the details of that agreement, 325 00:18:59,334 --> 00:19:01,534 Speaker 3: Israel saying they would agree, but with certain points that 326 00:19:01,534 --> 00:19:04,614 Speaker 3: Hamas doesn't agree to. So I think the question is, 327 00:19:05,374 --> 00:19:08,774 Speaker 3: would President Trump really apply a lot of pressure on 328 00:19:08,774 --> 00:19:12,174 Speaker 3: bidimin Netna to get to at a minimum a sixty 329 00:19:12,254 --> 00:19:17,054 Speaker 3: day ceasefire, and then we might see that occurring, although 330 00:19:17,094 --> 00:19:21,054 Speaker 3: it still leaves in doubt a longer and more permanent 331 00:19:21,214 --> 00:19:22,214 Speaker 3: ceasefire agreement. 332 00:19:24,134 --> 00:19:26,294 Speaker 2: Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with 333 00:19:26,374 --> 00:19:29,094 Speaker 2: us today. The quickie is produced by me Taylor Strano 334 00:19:29,174 --> 00:19:32,254 Speaker 2: and Clare Murphy, with audio production by Lou Hill.