Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mama Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to
Speaker 2: MoMA Mia. Oh and we're off to the races. Oh, funny,
Speaker 2: happened to Charlich.
Speaker 1: That's a glitch. Let's try that again.
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Mom and Mia out Loud and
Speaker 2: to our Friday show where we just take a break
Speaker 2: from the news cycle and holy moly, wanted news cycle
Speaker 2: it has been.
Speaker 3: Can we breathe out?
Speaker 2: Today is Friday, the nineteenth of July, and I am
Speaker 2: Holly Wainwright.
Speaker 4: And I'm Jesse Stevens. And this week, as of Wednesday,
Speaker 4: when we just made up this competition, we're running a
Speaker 4: Christmas in July gift from us. What we want you
Speaker 4: to do is regular write our social strategy.
Speaker 3: Come on out louders.
Speaker 1: I'd like it in a PowerPoint presentation or maybe designed
Speaker 1: it saying that someone gonna do that.
Speaker 4: No, all you need to do is post weare you
Speaker 4: listening to Mummy out Loud wherever it is tag Mummy
Speaker 4: Outloud on Instagram. We want to see and the weirdest,
Speaker 4: most interesting place The agular winner prize, and that prize
Speaker 4: may or may not be signed copies of our books.
Speaker 4: That are women arms each of us right now, so true.
Speaker 2: There on the show today, people are paying thousands of
Speaker 2: dollars to win back their exes. We give you a
Speaker 2: cheat sheet that you can then set on fire. Plus
Speaker 2: MEA's new passion project, a hair Confession, and an American
Speaker 2: horror show its recommendations time and the Best and Worse
Speaker 2: from our week, which include a panicked call from a teenager,
Speaker 2: a smug exerciser, and MIA's latest style reinvention. But first
Speaker 2: Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 4: In case you missed it. An airline has made it
Speaker 4: possible for women to choose to avoid sitting next to
Speaker 4: men on flights. The Indian low cost carrier it's called Indigo,
Speaker 4: is the first airline to allow female travelers to see
Speaker 4: which adjacent seats have been booked by other female passengers. Men,
Speaker 4: on the other hand, will be able to see which
Speaker 4: seats are free, but not the gender, so women are
Speaker 4: able to see the gender of people around them. This
Speaker 4: comes after the airline ran a survey on how they
Speaker 4: could make women feel more comfortable while traveling and actually
Speaker 4: in India. This isn't entirely new. All the countries long
Speaker 4: distance train services have women only compartments. The same exists
Speaker 4: in Japan in Iran. I want to know, would you
Speaker 4: choose not to sit next to a man? You can
Speaker 4: now decide whether would you unless.
Speaker 3: It was someone I knew or lived with.
Speaker 4: Okay, so you're choosing. Let's say you're going for business,
Speaker 4: you're going on your own. You get on and you
Speaker 4: go which seat do I want to sit in? You
Speaker 4: decide to sit next to a woman instead of a man?
Speaker 3: Well, leg groom?
Speaker 4: Okay, you're using the generalization of men in height.
Speaker 1: No, man's breading is a thing, and I'm resting, and
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily their fault. Some men have very big
Speaker 1: testicles and their legs need to be wide apart.
Speaker 4: Some women but large flaps, and there need to be.
Speaker 3: Well less women.
Speaker 1: Clearly because so many men seem to have very big
Speaker 1: testicles and their legs need to be very far apart,
Speaker 1: and more power to them. But best that not infringe
Speaker 1: on my personal space.
Speaker 4: Sales discriminatory, Holly, do you discriminate against men based on
Speaker 4: the side of their testimony?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 2: I do not, although when I flew to Manchester for
Speaker 2: my dad's birthday not that long ago. On the flight over,
Speaker 2: I was in the window seat and next to me
Speaker 2: were two enormous men. And when I say enormous, I
Speaker 2: mean like muscly enormous, like bodybuilder dudes with the very
Speaker 2: involuntary mad spread as described, and it was very uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: But what I thought about this when I read it
Speaker 2: is I was like, that is really sad that that
Speaker 2: has to be a thing.
Speaker 4: I thought it was sad, no, because on the one hand,
Speaker 4: I get it, there are a lot of women walking
Speaker 4: around who have, in all seriousness, been the victim of
Speaker 4: some sort of sexual violence and sitting next to men
Speaker 4: can be scary. I get that. On the other hand,
Speaker 4: we are presupposing that every single man is a potential criminal.
Speaker 1: That That's not why I said I want to do it,
Speaker 1: But that's what this is. That's what the safety.
Speaker 4: It's about. Safety. Like the FBI have come out and
Speaker 4: said as well that like, instances of sexual violence on
Speaker 4: planes are high, have become higher, and that's why they
Speaker 4: do it in India to keep women safe, and that's
Speaker 4: what they think about it.
Speaker 1: Like that, I thought about it more in the same
Speaker 1: way that particularly if you're on a long flight, traveling
Speaker 1: can be vulnerable because you're asleep, you know, essentially you're unconscious.
Speaker 1: Some people might be drunk. Don't recommend it, But my
Speaker 1: point is I saw it more as just in the
Speaker 1: same yeah, in the same way that there's a ride
Speaker 1: share company called Siba where if you prefer a female
Speaker 1: ride share driver you.
Speaker 3: Can choose that.
Speaker 2: But again, that's a good thing, but the reason for
Speaker 2: it is sad. How much would you pay to get
Speaker 2: your X back? Look, there are plenty of people listening
Speaker 2: to this who'd be like I would pay for them
Speaker 2: to have contact me please. But I learned this week
Speaker 2: that you can employ someone to help you win back
Speaker 2: your ex and the ex back coaching, as it's called,
Speaker 2: is big business. Now I've added this to the very
Speaker 2: long list of things to worry about, because generally speaking,
Speaker 2: but not always, getting your X back is a terrible idea.
Speaker 2: Just ask j Lo anyway, YouTube, TikTok Facebook are crawling
Speaker 2: with coaches who are getting millions of views telling people
Speaker 2: how to win back their exes. Here is a little
Speaker 2: grab of some of the kind of advice they're giving.
Speaker 5: Especially for guys that are needy. They're desperate. They're looking
Speaker 5: for any reason. Oh, she's liking my Facebook posts? Again,
Speaker 5: does that mean I call her and ask her on
Speaker 5: a date? Fucking no way. So they're liking your Facebook
Speaker 5: posts or even commenting on social media posts does not
Speaker 5: count as them contacting you. Do not engage in any
Speaker 5: BS conversation or nonsensical chit chat when they contact you. Again,
Speaker 5: be direct, be decisive, and go for what you want
Speaker 5: by saying this, Hey, it's great to hear from I'd
Speaker 5: love to see you. When are you free to get together?
Speaker 5: I was super scared a number of months ago when
Speaker 5: Gabriel coached me to text my ex.
Speaker 1: But now I rely on Gabriel to give me a.
Speaker 3: Little remindsers and little preps as I go along the path.
Speaker 6: And you start to dominantly focus on you and having
Speaker 6: this incredible life, incredible life.
Speaker 1: The more you.
Speaker 6: Are doing you, the less you are doing then the
Speaker 6: more they we fool the miss in you, and they
Speaker 6: will feel something has shifted because we are all energetically connected.
Speaker 4: Yes, this is a shit. My mum told me at
Speaker 4: fourteen when I was jumped by my first boyfriend. This
Speaker 4: is not profound.
Speaker 2: So all these people, how do they make money well.
Speaker 2: As Jesse beautifully explained on Wednesday when we were explaining
Speaker 2: TikTok to Andrew Take, social media is marketing. So these
Speaker 2: people get millions of views with their advice on these
Speaker 2: various platforms, and then people reach out and say can
Speaker 2: you help me? And they say, funnily enough, I can.
Speaker 2: I'll give you one on one coaching session for five
Speaker 2: hundred bucks.
Speaker 1: Here.
Speaker 2: If we want to add on text message coaching, yeah,
Speaker 2: my course, here's more by my book. Yeah. And apparently
Speaker 2: you know, the coaches are saying that there could be
Speaker 2: no more important way to invest your money. As coach Benny,
Speaker 2: who's one of the guys you heard there and who's
Speaker 2: one of the big deals in this space, says, think
Speaker 2: of the worst breakup you've had, would you try to
Speaker 2: solve it for the price of a PlayStation? I think
Speaker 2: if they're X said hey, give me a PlayStation and
Speaker 2: we'll be back together, they do it. So I can
Speaker 2: sleep at night just fine, because I love that I'm
Speaker 2: helping people. We want to save you the money.
Speaker 3: Friends.
Speaker 2: Most of this advice is play hard to get and
Speaker 2: work on yourself.
Speaker 1: What do we think I want to ask? Is it
Speaker 1: ever a good idea to get back with an X, like,
Speaker 1: it's not they're an X for a reason.
Speaker 4: I can think of a few examples in my life
Speaker 4: where there has been a small like a breakup that
Speaker 4: lasted a very short amount of time.
Speaker 2: Shit which last of the year.
Speaker 4: Your husband is your ex.
Speaker 2: You're one of the people I was thinking about when
Speaker 2: because I.
Speaker 1: Why don't I make these videos? Yes?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you get your expack.
Speaker 2: My general position is that it's never a good idea
Speaker 2: because all the problems you've got are still there. But
Speaker 2: then I was like, oh, but Maya did it?
Speaker 4: And wait, Maya, how'd you get your X back?
Speaker 1: Well, Jesse, if you do my coaching cass and watch
Speaker 1: my video with my YouTube ads in it, you too
Speaker 1: could get back with your ex. The thing is ole
Speaker 1: I watched and listened to none of these, But I
Speaker 1: just listened to those then, and no, that's true, I
Speaker 1: didn't before. There's a difference between the advice that the
Speaker 1: men give and the women give. So the women who
Speaker 1: do this coaching, their advice is basically, believe in yourself,
Speaker 1: manifest him back, and also go complete yourself. Essentially, she's like,
Speaker 1: don't pine, go be great, fill up your own cup.
Speaker 1: And then you'll be more attractive to him, whereas men
Speaker 1: is more about tricking. Yeah, like trickery and play hard
Speaker 1: to get, you know, do this, And I just thought
Speaker 1: that's really interesting. So I actually think that the woman's advice,
Speaker 1: which is to go work on yourself, is not bad advice.
Speaker 2: It's not. But to be honest, a lot of the
Speaker 2: men in this space say the same thing too. They say,
Speaker 2: go exercise, make yourself desirable, date other people, and then
Speaker 2: she'll want you back, which is not exactly rocket science,
Speaker 2: but you're right here that there are some very specific
Speaker 2: strategies to be employed, and I'd love to put some
Speaker 2: of them to you, Jesse and see what you think,
Speaker 2: because you know you're an expert.
Speaker 1: Have you two ever got back with X's yes, just
Speaker 1: XX or actually actually other ones?
Speaker 2: Was not a good idea, And in fact, you know what,
Speaker 2: when I did watch a few of these videos for this,
Speaker 2: a lot of them said, and this is how I
Speaker 2: got my X back. We're not together.
Speaker 1: Anything, but anyway they always go. But it was my choice.
Speaker 1: No contact is very big, right. One of the OG
Speaker 1: guys in this space is a go I called Corey Wayne,
Speaker 1: and he did this big video like seven Ways to
Speaker 1: get your expack that's had like millions of views, and
Speaker 1: you heard a bit of him in there. He was
Speaker 1: the one who said, just she's liking your Facebook photos
Speaker 1: so very very big. Here is no contact, he says,
Speaker 1: walk away if they dump you. This is if they
Speaker 1: dump you, ye right, and never contact them again for
Speaker 1: any reason. No birthday, no, sorry your father died, no,
Speaker 1: like happy Christmas whatever. In order for them to miss you,
Speaker 1: they need to realize that you're serious and that you
Speaker 1: are gone, and that there is a space there to
Speaker 1: be missed.
Speaker 2: Do we agree with this.
Speaker 4: One hundred percent? So the best advice anymore I can
Speaker 4: give you, I have followed it precisely. Never to do
Speaker 4: it's impossible to do. I was told you need to
Speaker 4: go no contact, and I was like, yeah, yeah, no
Speaker 4: I'm not texting.
Speaker 1: Can I ask, is this advice? Like the market for
Speaker 1: these videos and courses and stuff, is it always people
Speaker 1: who were dumped? Or sometimes it's the dumper.
Speaker 4: It's almost regret people who were dump It's.
Speaker 2: Nearly it was probably were dumped. But I watched a
Speaker 2: few that were like, were you dumped because you did
Speaker 2: something stupid like cheap or and they will they tailor
Speaker 2: a bit there. They're like, you have to make her
Speaker 2: understand that you're very sorry. See him. But this guy
Speaker 2: would be like you state that. He's like, you need
Speaker 2: to absolutely put your intention out there. So you're like,
Speaker 2: I want to get back together. I don't want to
Speaker 2: be friends. Being friends apparently very bad. I want to
Speaker 2: get back together. I'm very sorry for what I did.
Speaker 2: And then no contact. Like, so you state your case.
Speaker 1: So you do say I want to get back together,
Speaker 1: if that's what you want.
Speaker 2: See.
Speaker 4: I think that this is capitalizing on literal addiction. And
Speaker 4: there's all the studies that you know, we've all heard about.
Speaker 4: I'm sure about brain scans and how they can tell that.
Speaker 4: It's like the dopamine centers. It's the same as drug addiction.
Speaker 4: So it's like the same as if you're an addict
Speaker 4: and someone offers you something, you'll pay any amount of
Speaker 4: money because of how desperately you want it. Like there
Speaker 4: were stages in my life where I would have given
Speaker 4: every cent to my name to get back with an X.
Speaker 4: That money would have been seventy two dollars, but like
Speaker 4: there was a lot of more of it.
Speaker 1: So what did you do?
Speaker 3: Did you try anything.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, there's definitely been some tearful phone calls where
Speaker 4: upon reflection, it was begging. Begging.
Speaker 2: Begging is on the no Begging is very much on
Speaker 2: the no list for both men and women in these guys.
Speaker 4: Weird because there's something about selling yourself to someone who
Speaker 4: doesn't want you, which is particularly bad for the ego,
Speaker 4: because I think that when you get dumped, I don't
Speaker 4: think you're chasing your ex. I think you're chasing your
Speaker 4: ego because it has been obliterated and you're just like
Speaker 4: to restore some sense of myself and my self worth.
Speaker 4: I need you back, which is not what you want.
Speaker 4: But the saddest thing I ever did, and I hadn't
Speaker 4: thought about it in more than ten years, was I
Speaker 4: got dumped by this ex boyfriend and his birthday was
Speaker 4: coming out, and I was trying to do the no
Speaker 4: contact thing unsuccessfully, and I made him hand made him
Speaker 4: photo albums from the trip to Europe we've taken together.
Speaker 4: So I printed out photos with like little comments like
Speaker 4: for his birthday and no chill in the chill, And
Speaker 4: I had UNI assignments due and like they were late
Speaker 4: because I was making the fucking saddest album photos he
Speaker 4: didn't want to look at.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's part of your grieving process. That's the general restor.
Speaker 2: You should have made it and then said it on fire.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I gave it.
Speaker 2: This guy says his vision for this is no contact,
Speaker 2: no contact, no contact. Then she or he whoever you know,
Speaker 2: is going to reach out to you and say, hey,
Speaker 2: thinking about you today, or how you doing, wondering how
Speaker 2: you doing? He says, at that point, you engage in
Speaker 2: no bullshit chit chat, two messages tops. You say, let's
Speaker 2: get together and have dinner. Like no, don't accept.
Speaker 1: Any sexy even just the way you sit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, He's like, don't mess around with any like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, what are you doing? I'm just sitting around
Speaker 2: watching TV. He says this, and this is what you
Speaker 2: have to do. Make a dinner date. It's got to
Speaker 2: be evening. It's got to be at your house. You're
Speaker 2: cooking dinner together, because the idea is we're hanging out,
Speaker 2: having fun, hooking up. He says, you have to start again,
Speaker 2: so you have to treat it like a new relationship,
Speaker 2: no looking back, no credits for previous things. You're like,
Speaker 2: come around, we'll make dinner together. It'll be great. And
Speaker 2: if she's not ready to do that, you just go, oh,
Speaker 2: gotta go really busy, give me a call when you are.
Speaker 5: That's it.
Speaker 1: That's really sexy.
Speaker 3: I want to get you. And we never even broke up.
Speaker 1: Do we think this is good advice? I do a
Speaker 1: lot of pressure.
Speaker 4: It is, and there is something that happens when a
Speaker 4: relation the way you.
Speaker 1: Just saddle that.
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, that's what.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'll come around.
Speaker 2: I'll bring some fish.
Speaker 4: I think the relationship, Yeah, there's something that happens when
Speaker 4: it deteriorates, where even I have dumped someone, the relationship
Speaker 4: is ended. They've been trying to do no contact on me.
Speaker 4: I don't want them back, but I still would like
Speaker 4: their attention. You have done that, and then you kind
Speaker 4: of put your line out to be like which is me?
Speaker 3: Which is me?
Speaker 1: It's really cral just checking and see if you're okay, Oh.
Speaker 4: We're going to be friends. I still want to be
Speaker 4: friends because I like how you made me feel abound.
Speaker 1: Oh I hope she's not swimming too far away. I'm
Speaker 1: just going to tug on that. I don't want to
Speaker 1: catch the fish, but I'm just going to tug on it.
Speaker 2: I mean, most of my breakups in my life have
Speaker 2: not been like a someone was dumped. It's just been
Speaker 2: a kind of collapse, do you know.
Speaker 7: What I mean?
Speaker 2: The relationships just collapsed and somebody ultimately has to be
Speaker 2: the person to call it. But it hasn't been as
Speaker 2: clear as like you dump me dump So then you're
Speaker 2: on this like roller coaster of but we really liked
Speaker 2: each other, maybe we could just be friends and all that.
Speaker 2: And he's like, never ever agree to that. If friendship
Speaker 2: isn't what you want, then do not say it, because
Speaker 2: he's like, this guy is very much If you agree
Speaker 2: a friendship, you're going to stay in the friendship zone.
Speaker 2: Except no excuses, he says. If she says or he says,
Speaker 2: I don't want to come over and make dinner, you
Speaker 2: have to always say I've got to run, get in
Speaker 2: touch when you change your mind, and then walk away
Speaker 2: and never look back. If they refuse to set a
Speaker 2: date twice, never ask them again.
Speaker 4: I think that's true because what my mistake was, I
Speaker 4: just gave all of myself freely, and they have untangled
Speaker 4: themselves from the relationship part, so they owe you literally nothing,
Speaker 4: but they still have your friendship. So whenever they want
Speaker 4: something from you, whenever they want the chad or to
Speaker 4: feel good or whatever, you can such other people exactly right.
Speaker 3: So that's what happened.
Speaker 1: When you gave him that, we actually did get back
Speaker 1: together for a short period of time worked.
Speaker 4: I think that was a pathetic low point. I think
Speaker 4: it was actually when I tried the no contact thing,
Speaker 4: he came back, we got back together, realized that it
Speaker 4: wasn't working, and then I think I ended it. It
Speaker 4: was like being a mad person, Like what happened to
Speaker 4: my head? My sense of priority, my sense of self
Speaker 4: worth was so in the toilet, Like I look back
Speaker 4: and I'm just horrified by some of the things I did.
Speaker 4: I mean, clearly, the best thing is no contact. Go
Speaker 4: and I don't know, learn a language.
Speaker 2: It's interesting about these coaches, right because from where I
Speaker 2: am now, that'll do it all my wisdom under my belt,
Speaker 2: et cetera.
Speaker 3: Blah blah.
Speaker 2: You were what twenty.
Speaker 4: Five younger like nineteen?
Speaker 2: So what the hell did you know? Do you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? And that is where these people step in, right.
Speaker 4: Why these people have made that album.
Speaker 2: But also this is why they're making all their money.
Speaker 3: Had in my first baby twenty five.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like, even so you're nineteen, you're twenty or
Speaker 2: twenty one, what do you know about relationships really and
Speaker 2: how they work and and all that stuff. So that's
Speaker 2: why everybody's talking to these people because we don't know.
Speaker 1: I just think it's for the same reason that sometimes
Speaker 1: psychics and fortune tellers know that the most common time
Speaker 1: for people to come to them is around a breakup.
Speaker 1: And I think that heartbroken people are really easy to exploit.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that everybody does exploit them, but as
Speaker 1: you said, Jesse, you would do anything, like when someone
Speaker 1: breaks your heart, you would do anything to put it
Speaker 1: back together again, and you invariably think that the only.
Speaker 3: Way to do that is getting back together with your ex.
Speaker 1: Now, I would actually say that the best thing to
Speaker 1: do is to go to therapy to understand what just happened,
Speaker 1: to make sense of what just happened, And I think
Speaker 1: that's probably the best way to not get pulled back
Speaker 1: into something that Ultimately, if someone breaks up with you,
Speaker 1: they're freeing your future. I think you have to reframe it.
Speaker 1: They're freeing your future because they're saying you're not right
Speaker 1: for me. Or I'm not right for you for each other,
Speaker 1: I don't want to be with you. They're basically saying that.
Speaker 1: Remember when we did the live show, Jesse, and you're
Speaker 1: talking about some really bad breakups.
Speaker 3: This was a few live shows ago.
Speaker 1: But you were talking about how someone's seen got to
Speaker 1: know you really well, seen you naked everything, and gone.
Speaker 3: I don't want that, No thanks.
Speaker 4: I don't want it, and actually crushing worse than that.
Speaker 4: And as someone who's experienced it, is like if you
Speaker 4: then get back with that X who broke up with you,
Speaker 4: the torture of spending prolonged time with someone, you can
Speaker 4: see it in their eyes. They don't feel the same
Speaker 4: way about you. Maybe they're tolerating you. I like you
Speaker 4: anymore like that is more corrosive to itself.
Speaker 2: I don't like that characterization of what breakups are, because
Speaker 2: of course it feels like that. But when you've done
Speaker 2: it the other way, right, you know, when you've broken
Speaker 2: up with someone, you rarely disgusted by them. It's rarely
Speaker 2: like I hate everything about you, You're awful. It just
Speaker 2: isn't right for you. And so I know it's such
Speaker 2: a cliche where just this time isn't right, this isn't
Speaker 2: the right moment. But when you're on the other side
Speaker 2: of it, that's usually how you feel.
Speaker 1: You rarely are.
Speaker 2: Standing looking at somebody in front of you and going
Speaker 2: you're just like, no.
Speaker 1: I don't think that. That's what Jesse was implying then,
Speaker 1: that they're going vomitsh. I mean breakups are really I mean,
Speaker 1: hopefully they're not cruel. I mean sometimes people cheating stuff,
Speaker 1: but most people don't go, I think you're disgusting.
Speaker 3: I don't want to be with you anymore.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 2: But what I'm arguing with is not that I'm not
Speaker 2: saying they're saying that, but that's even not what they're thinking.
Speaker 3: No, but Ie, you're telling yourself.
Speaker 1: I think what.
Speaker 3: They are doing is saying, I don't want to be
Speaker 3: with you.
Speaker 1: So even in the nicest way, it's like there's nothing
Speaker 1: more vulnerable. I've seen you naked, I've spent all this
Speaker 1: intimate time with you. I've seen you in your highs
Speaker 1: and your lows, and you know what, not for me.
Speaker 1: It's not for me, I know, lovely not for me.
Speaker 2: But the point I'm making is that I don't think
Speaker 2: it's that simple. It's not that you're not for them.
Speaker 2: It's that you two aren't right for each other in
Speaker 2: that way I had anyway, it's nitpicking. I'd like to
Speaker 2: know if we think rules and games work right, because really,
Speaker 2: when I listened to all these I was just like,
Speaker 2: this is like the rules from back in the day,
Speaker 2: those dating books. I'd never call him, don't chase him.
Speaker 2: It's basically play hard to get and make yourself seem
Speaker 2: like a really high valued property. Remember that person, so
Speaker 2: you know you work on yourself. They see you out
Speaker 2: and about. Kate Middleton did this brilliantly. Remember back in
Speaker 2: the day when she and William broke up.
Speaker 1: Take us back, So back.
Speaker 2: In the day when they broke up, they'd been together
Speaker 2: for quite a long time. He hadn't proposed. The media
Speaker 2: were being awful to her, wady katy, wady katy, when's
Speaker 2: he going to propose? And for a short term that
Speaker 2: he broke up, and that summer she suddenly was photographed
Speaker 2: out at all these clubs in Chelsea. She was looking gorgeous,
Speaker 2: she was wearing short skirts, she was.
Speaker 3: Like laughing, smiling, she was rowing.
Speaker 2: Yep, she was rowing. She was doing all these things
Speaker 2: that were like very look how amazing I am. And
Speaker 2: I'm sure she was probably having a hot girl summer,
Speaker 2: but it worked brilliantly. Right, do get games work? Because
Speaker 2: that I hate those kind of rule things. A. I'm
Speaker 2: not very good at them, like you, Jesse. I'm just like,
Speaker 2: if I want something, I want it and I'm going
Speaker 2: to just call it up and do it. I'm not
Speaker 2: very good at like denying myself. But do we think
Speaker 2: that all relationships have a portion of game playing. It's
Speaker 2: just whether you're honest about it or not.
Speaker 4: No amount of game playing changes the unfortunate reality that
Speaker 4: the other person has this little thing called free will.
Speaker 4: And that's a problem with the game as well, is
Speaker 4: that people can pull all the tricks, but if the
Speaker 4: other person doesn't want you, you can juggle and stand
Speaker 4: upside down, But.
Speaker 1: It comes down to why you broke up, and that
Speaker 1: some things are fixable and some things are not fixable.
Speaker 1: So I once read this thing called the ninety ten
Speaker 1: rule of breakups that most people after they end a relationship,
Speaker 1: not in every case, but it will often be because
Speaker 1: the person that they were with, they're like ninety percent
Speaker 1: of them and ten percent they just couldn't stand. So
Speaker 1: the next person that they go out with will be
Speaker 1: the ten percent.
Speaker 4: Affairs often fall flash, Yeah, because you.
Speaker 1: Chose the ten and then that's why it's a rebound,
Speaker 1: because you're really attracted to the ten percent that was
Speaker 1: wrong with your ex and this person has and then
Speaker 1: you realize that's not self sustaining, so then you go, oh,
Speaker 1: you know what, the ninety percent was actually quite good,
Speaker 1: and then you go back. So I think that's there
Speaker 1: are a lot of reasons there.
Speaker 4: I'm thinking of a few couples I know who are
Speaker 4: married who kind of just before the marriage or significantly
Speaker 4: into the relationship, there was a hiccup where they split
Speaker 4: for actually one was a weekend and the other one
Speaker 4: was months and months and months, and it was about commitment.
Speaker 4: It was about a crossroads in their relationship, and both
Speaker 4: of them are together, are still together, you know, decades later.
Speaker 2: I'm a firm believer that the most important thing in
Speaker 2: relationships is timing, Like it just is. It's not even compatibility.
Speaker 2: It's like, if you're looking to settle down in averted comments,
Speaker 2: you both have to want that. The classic sex City
Speaker 2: line about whether your lights on or not. Timing is everything.
Speaker 4: I had a friend who Tolmy two helpful things if
Speaker 4: you're still pining over an X. The first is that
Speaker 4: the person that you want is not the same person
Speaker 4: who you were with. It's often a very because the
Speaker 4: person you are with actually liked you. This person, this
Speaker 4: version of them, isn't like that anymore. And the second
Speaker 4: is that you're not grieving them. You're grieving what you
Speaker 4: thought your future was going to look like, and it's
Speaker 4: not going to look like that anymore. And I thought
Speaker 4: that was very helpful. It's not about the person. It's
Speaker 4: often in the situation where I've got the X back,
Speaker 4: I've looked at them and gone, oh, I actually don't
Speaker 4: want you anymore.
Speaker 1: Do you know everyone's got that vision of themselves. I
Speaker 1: assume everyone to everyone who's been dumped at their most pathetic.
Speaker 3: And for you, it's looking through the photo albums.
Speaker 1: For me, it's sitting in my car outside his apartment,
Speaker 1: counting up the level of flaws to see if his
Speaker 1: lights on or not because he got back with his
Speaker 1: I was the interim thing he got back with, and
Speaker 1: then calling a restaurant that we liked to go to
Speaker 1: to see if he.
Speaker 3: Had a booking with her.
Speaker 1: Oh that's so and I used to do it every day.
Speaker 2: I once I think I told you this story at
Speaker 2: a live show, which is a low moment in itself.
Speaker 2: I'll never forget the heartbreak of my ex, who I
Speaker 2: was so crazy about, and we were pretending we are friends.
Speaker 2: This is the problem with pretending you're friends. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: was staying at his house and sleeping on his couch
Speaker 2: and listening to him having really hot sex with his
Speaker 2: new girlfriend. That's through the wall.
Speaker 1: I've never been more miserable.
Speaker 2: In my life.
Speaker 4: Actually, that reminds me of being on one of my
Speaker 4: coming back one of my phone calls where I was
Speaker 4: doing a little bit of the begging and hearing something
Speaker 4: in the background and going, oh, you're actually with another
Speaker 4: girl right now, right now.
Speaker 2: Friends, you don't need a break up coach on YouTube.
Speaker 2: You just need us and each other.
Speaker 1: We want to hear your stories. Out Louders, share your
Speaker 1: stories with us. Either send us a voice note, go
Speaker 1: in the out Louders Facebook group, will leave a little
Speaker 1: message for us on Instagram.
Speaker 4: It's not fake.
Speaker 7: His lighter is on, that's all what late men are
Speaker 7: like cabs. When they're available, their life goes on. They
Speaker 7: wake up one day and they decide they're ready to
Speaker 7: settle down, have babies, whatever, and they turn their light up.
Speaker 7: The next woman they pick up, Boom, that's the one
Speaker 7: they'll marry. It's not fake, it's dumb, luck Loud.
Speaker 1: It's Friday out Louders. So we want to help set
Speaker 1: up your weekend with our best recommendations. And I don't
Speaker 1: think I'm going to go first because mine's a little
Speaker 1: bit self involved.
Speaker 3: Holly, what do you suggest can we get stuck into
Speaker 3: over the weekend.
Speaker 2: This is one of those recommendations I do all the
Speaker 2: time that I'm not sure it's a.
Speaker 1: Recommendation, you know what.
Speaker 2: I'm always like you might not like it, but I'm.
Speaker 4: Bringing a good recommendation, luckily, but go HOLLI.
Speaker 2: Okay. This is for those of us who are leaning
Speaker 2: into the American horror show at the moment. We've been
Speaker 2: talking obviously about the American election on the pop US
Speaker 2: this week. We talked about it on Monday and Wednesday,
Speaker 2: so I'm not going to go on about it. But
Speaker 2: if you are finding yourself obsessed with it, there are
Speaker 2: two things which and neither of them will cheer you up.
Speaker 2: Just to be really clear, neither of them will cheer
Speaker 2: you up, but they will indulge your obsession. The first
Speaker 2: is four Corners from Monday Night, which is obviously ABC's
Speaker 2: investigative reporting show. They are doing a two parter on
Speaker 2: what a Donald Trump presidency.
Speaker 1: Will look like.
Speaker 2: It's called Retribution. That gives you a little hint.
Speaker 1: It's about Project twenty twenty five, isn't it saying.
Speaker 2: It's hop line?
Speaker 1: This is no man's land. This is where the bad
Speaker 1: guys are.
Speaker 3: Who are these people?
Speaker 1: This is an invasion.
Speaker 3: We've been called murderers, baby killers.
Speaker 7: We've all seen them.
Speaker 1: Sha black men find it relatively admirable.
Speaker 2: Is it clear President Trump wanted you to overturn the result?
Speaker 1: In of course he did.
Speaker 5: Donald Trump will go down as one of the greatest
Speaker 5: presidents in history.
Speaker 6: If we don't lean as time, America's or terrifying.
Speaker 2: So basically, Mark has spent months and got amazing access
Speaker 2: and interviews with lots of people who worked with Trump
Speaker 2: in the past administration and lots of people who want
Speaker 2: to work with him in this next one, and got
Speaker 2: all this insight into what's going on. If you're hearing
Speaker 2: the term Project twenty twenty five, I mean go and
Speaker 2: watch four corners. But the top line is a group
Speaker 2: of Trumpists who are very well placed in lots and
Speaker 2: lots of different arms of the government and just outside
Speaker 2: the arms of the government in America making their plans
Speaker 2: for what they're going to do on day one of
Speaker 2: a Trump presidency so he can hit the ground running right.
Speaker 2: And it's called Project twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: Five twenty two Democracy is it's largely about replacing civil
Speaker 1: servants who aren't sympathetic to Trump, replacing civil servants in
Speaker 1: lots of departments like the Departure of Justice and judges,
Speaker 1: so that Trump.
Speaker 2: Will have no obstacles to what he wants to do
Speaker 2: and what he wants to do. Their priorities are reproductive rights,
Speaker 2: oil drilling, which I mean he talks about all the
Speaker 2: time is just like drill, drill, drill, I'm going to
Speaker 2: drill like crazy, opening up lots of nature reserves to
Speaker 2: trash them. And immigration, mass deportation. So these three things,
Speaker 2: which you know, maybe you think they're good.
Speaker 1: I'm not here to judge anyway.
Speaker 2: If you want to know more, feel more armed, and
Speaker 2: also freak yourself out a little brilliantly reported. But if
Speaker 2: you really want to lean yourself into the freaking out
Speaker 2: on Saturday night, Brent, and this was terrible timing. Brent,
Speaker 2: and I watched a movie that is on Apple TV
Speaker 2: now because it is relatively new, so you rent it
Speaker 2: and I'm sure it will go to a streaming service soon.
Speaker 2: It's called Civil War and it was written and directed
Speaker 2: I think by Alex Garland, who you know did The
Speaker 2: Beach and those kind of shows. Anyway, he's actually British.
Speaker 2: Is that Beaches with midlanea the Beach.
Speaker 3: Sures?
Speaker 2: Yeah. Anyway, this movie is very dark. It did get
Speaker 2: a cinematic release. It stars Cursed and Dunst and she's amazing.
Speaker 1: Movie gets new.
Speaker 2: She plays a war photographer who has been you know,
Speaker 2: all over the world documenting wars. She's like tough as.
Speaker 1: Is it a period pigs about civil war?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 2: No, no, no no. It's an dystopian vision of like
Speaker 2: next year, right, So it's called a civil War and
Speaker 2: Kirstin Dunst is a photographer. The amazing actor Wagnamura who
Speaker 2: played if you watched Narco's.
Speaker 4: Did you watch he played Pablo.
Speaker 2: He's brilliant and he's really hot in this too. He
Speaker 2: was not so much anyway, he's the reporter. She's the photographer,
Speaker 2: and it's an unspecified future in America where America is
Speaker 2: basically having a civil war.
Speaker 4: Handmaid's Tales start.
Speaker 2: Follows Kirsten Dunt's character and Wagnamura's character as they try
Speaker 2: and travel from New York City to the White House
Speaker 2: where they are going to try and interview and photograph
Speaker 2: this charismatic dictator president. Oh my god, it is very grim,
Speaker 2: it is very tense. It is very well made. Kirstin
Speaker 2: Dunst is brilliant in it. And then I woke up
Speaker 2: in the morning to the news assassination attempt, and I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, so really good, but maybe not great
Speaker 2: if you're suffering anxiety. Mia is banned from watching it,
Speaker 2: but I'm recommending it because hey, we.
Speaker 1: Might as well lean in.
Speaker 4: I would like to recommend a hair roller.
Speaker 2: That's good times.
Speaker 4: I'll explain. I went to the hairdresser recently. My hairdresser,
Speaker 4: who is an out louder. Her name is Elle.
Speaker 1: Hairdresser.
Speaker 4: Yes she is.
Speaker 1: She's the official hairdresser of the podcast.
Speaker 4: She understands the assignment and she was teaching me this thing.
Speaker 4: What she said, what you should do is get a
Speaker 4: hair roller and put it in sort of the front
Speaker 4: of your hair and roll it up and then when
Speaker 4: you take it out, it makes it look like you've
Speaker 4: got a blow dry, you know how you can sometimes
Speaker 4: feel like the front of your hair is just a
Speaker 4: bit flat and just doesn't have a lot of shape.
Speaker 3: Now you've got curtain bangs, and I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't think that matters. I think you can still
Speaker 4: do it.
Speaker 1: So it's just for the front part of your the
Speaker 1: front part.
Speaker 4: I mean, people on TikTok deal with all of it.
Speaker 4: But who has big is the roller? I have just
Speaker 4: a medium size, like the.
Speaker 1: Size of a toilet roll like that.
Speaker 4: Kind of mine's probably a bit smaller than that because
Speaker 4: I just used whatever it had in my drawer, and
Speaker 4: it was from Kmart.
Speaker 1: It was for I mean, whatever you had in your drawer.
Speaker 1: Who has vilcrow hair rolls?
Speaker 4: I had one from a ten years ago that I
Speaker 4: didn't throw out anyway. So what I do now is
Speaker 4: get out of the shower kind of drive off my
Speaker 4: hair and then I put in my hair roller at
Speaker 4: the front. What's great as well as it keeps your
Speaker 4: hair out of your face when you're doing your makeup,
Speaker 4: So then I put some makeup on I take it
Speaker 4: out last thing, and it just falls and it just
Speaker 4: gives a lot more volume and it hasn't actually fall
Speaker 4: across your face rather than back, and it means I
Speaker 4: don't have to spend heaps of time blow drying it. It
Speaker 4: feels better for my hair.
Speaker 2: In order to realize the other day, I don't have
Speaker 2: a hair dryer anymore. What I went looking for a
Speaker 2: hair dryer at home because my children needed to dry
Speaker 2: a hair and I couldn't find it, and I realized
Speaker 2: I don't have one.
Speaker 3: Animal.
Speaker 4: How do you get your hair dry from.
Speaker 3: The part where you don't have a shower cap?
Speaker 4: But your hair? How do you dry it?
Speaker 3: Just wash it?
Speaker 2: And I leave it to dry winter.
Speaker 1: How often do you wash it?
Speaker 2: Like once a second every second day.
Speaker 3: I wash my hair at night or in the morning.
Speaker 2: In the morning, then you've got to get in the
Speaker 2: car and drive and it dries.
Speaker 4: Kidding you got so much hair though?
Speaker 2: Has it dried? I get in the car with hair
Speaker 2: and by the time I've got to Sindy, my hair
Speaker 2: is dry.
Speaker 3: Now we know why she's getting head eggs.
Speaker 4: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2: Anyway, I probably need to invest in it because the
Speaker 2: hair dryer I was looking for. I was trying to
Speaker 2: remember when I bought it, and I bought it twenty
Speaker 2: years ago. I need a new hair.
Speaker 3: This is why I'll bring it in. I'm very anxious.
Speaker 4: This is why she's been cranky because she's wet hair.
Speaker 1: She got a chill at the back of she's got
Speaker 1: a chill.
Speaker 2: She's always ill.
Speaker 1: Okay, who's got time?
Speaker 4: I used my hair.
Speaker 1: Daughter, that lives in your hair.
Speaker 2: She also lets her hair hair driven.
Speaker 4: How does Brench get his hair d anywhere?
Speaker 3: Let's move on.
Speaker 2: I what's your recommendation, Well.
Speaker 4: Bring household.
Speaker 1: I'm going to bring it back to my favorite topic,
Speaker 1: which is me. Now I have stopped riding on the internet.
Speaker 1: I've stopped wanting to write on the internet. I've stopped
Speaker 1: writing on the internet. But I also just don't feel
Speaker 1: really myself when I'm not writing. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you guys have that. Like we all began our careers
Speaker 1: in media as writers. There's something about writing. It's not
Speaker 1: an original thought, but I just I feel most myself
Speaker 1: when I'm writing. I also now I feel most myself
Speaker 1: when I'm talking to you bitches as well. But I
Speaker 1: really miss it. So what I've started doing. I started
Speaker 1: this newsletter called Babbel based on Insta babble when I
Speaker 1: just talk into my phone.
Speaker 4: The subject line I didn't click because it was from
Speaker 4: you and I sing about Harry Pits you go on
Speaker 4: your arm pits out.
Speaker 1: You'll have to open it. I know it's don't tell her, don't't, don't,
Speaker 1: don't tell her.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to tell her. She's think I'm going
Speaker 2: to say open rate, don't. I'm not going to spoilers
Speaker 2: here about Jesse. When you read it, you'll recognize that
Speaker 2: it's a topic she's been trying to get us to
Speaker 2: talk about, and we won't talk about it.
Speaker 1: So this is what's great because on this show we
Speaker 1: need consensus. It's annoying. And on my Babbel newsletter where
Speaker 1: I do the Sexy six and it's the place that
Speaker 1: I write every week, thank you.
Speaker 2: I love it and I really like this invention of it,
Speaker 2: the Sexy six version. I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 4: There's no way I voluntarily signed up to this. I
Speaker 4: don't know how I got on my mailing address.
Speaker 2: That didn't you.
Speaker 1: It's just a maya. You can't escape me and so
Speaker 1: out louders of course, hopefully you subscribe to the out
Speaker 1: Loud newsletter, which is a different thing. But this is
Speaker 1: me writing and being silly and showing my clothes, and
Speaker 1: I'm just enjoying it so much and I'm trying to
Speaker 1: grow it and I'm also trying to increase my open rate.
Speaker 1: So Jesse bloody open it. We'll put a link in
Speaker 1: the show notes and also just everywhere. We'll put links
Speaker 1: everywhere everywhere, goodness.
Speaker 2: Every Tuesday and Thursday, we drop new segments of Mom
Speaker 2: and Me Are out Loud just for Mom and Me
Speaker 2: are subscribers. Follow the link in the show notes to
Speaker 2: get your daily dose of out Loud and a big
Speaker 2: thank you to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 4: It's time for best and worst. My worst is being
Speaker 4: spammed by me. I find a different worst. But this
Speaker 4: is part of the show where we share a little
Speaker 4: bit for our personal lives. Highs and loads of the weak. Holly,
Speaker 4: what's your worst?
Speaker 2: Okay, my worst is controversial, so I'm going to speak
Speaker 2: in code speaking of things that sometimes don't make it
Speaker 2: onto the show. So this is genuine behind the scenes information,
Speaker 2: like we'll discuss every morning. We want to talk about this,
Speaker 2: we want to talk about that, and sometimes we'll go, oh,
Speaker 2: that's a good thing to talk about, but maybe we
Speaker 2: don't know enough yet, or maybe we should wait, or
Speaker 2: maybe this or maybe that. And weirdly, although not weirdly
Speaker 2: because Jesse Stevens obviously has her finger on the pulse,
Speaker 2: on Monday morning, she wanted to talk about a health issue, right,
Speaker 2: and we were like, oh, we're not doctors, or I
Speaker 2: don't we don't want to spread misinformation. Let's just wait
Speaker 2: and see the next day. The very next day, I'm
Speaker 2: sitting near me or somewhere in the office and my
Speaker 2: phone's pinging, which is irritating. It's by teenage daughter, which
Speaker 2: is irritating. I love her, but still wait till Luna
Speaker 2: is old enough to text you all the time, school holiday,
Speaker 2: school holiday, and bless her.
Speaker 1: I understand why. And she has seen on TikTok this
Speaker 1: very health worry, right, and she is like, mom, Mom,
Speaker 1: I've seen on TikTok that if I do this thing,
Speaker 1: I'm going to get cancer and die, right. And I'm like, baby,
Speaker 1: you're not You're not well.
Speaker 2: It's all over TikTok. And I'm like, Mia told me
Speaker 2: to say this. I asked Mia what to do because
Speaker 2: as much as I take the pie out of her,
Speaker 2: she is quite good, does give quite good parenting.
Speaker 4: I think, maybe why don't you give Auntie Jesse a call?
Speaker 4: Could have helped she would have wound each other up.
Speaker 2: That's also true. And then she said, why don't you
Speaker 2: tell her we don't get our health information from TikTok,
Speaker 2: so our text, we don't get our health information from TikTok.
Speaker 1: Correct.
Speaker 2: So then she sent me a screenshot of Google.
Speaker 1: Yeah, bloody too.
Speaker 2: Smart, kept going and in all seriousness, this is one
Speaker 2: of the challenges, right of having teenagers who We were
Speaker 2: talking about it again today and Jesse made the very
Speaker 2: good point she's so wise this week. It annoys me that,
Speaker 2: you know, media used to be created for adults, you know,
Speaker 2: and now it's created for anyone who wants it in
Speaker 2: very digestible and attractive formats. And so my daughter's getting
Speaker 2: all kinds of information from political to you know, wars
Speaker 2: in different parts of the world, to whether or not
Speaker 2: this product is going to make her sick, all on
Speaker 2: her phone, on her own, with no one counterbalancing. And you,
Speaker 2: as parents know you're always going so tell me what.
Speaker 1: You learned on the TikTok today, whatever.
Speaker 2: You say, whatever bullshit you say excivity toilet and they're
Speaker 2: excivty toilet exactly, and then you're saying, what does that mean?
Speaker 2: And then they always struggle to explain that because the
Speaker 2: internet doesn't really make any sense, and then you know where.
Speaker 2: So anyway, my worst was that, But my best is
Speaker 2: also family related, which is I was saying last week
Speaker 2: and the week before I was winging about my headaches
Speaker 2: and have been feeling really rubbish. I gave myself a
Speaker 2: few days off at the end of last week because
Speaker 2: I've been working to a book deadline lately. I haven't
Speaker 2: really had weekends for a while, and I gave myself
Speaker 2: like just a few days to just to hang out
Speaker 2: with the family, school holidays and just fucking breathe out
Speaker 2: and enjoy it.
Speaker 1: Guess what feel so much? Hatter who knew?
Speaker 2: And we had the best family weekend. We went and
Speaker 2: hunted out dumplings, which is our favorite thing to do
Speaker 2: in the world, and made the children go on a
Speaker 2: bush walk with me, which they didn't enjoy but personally
Speaker 2: I did. We saw wombats, we saw wallabies, we walked
Speaker 2: the dog. It was wholesome family stuff and I really
Speaker 2: really enjoyed it, and so my best of the week
Speaker 2: was definitely just family hangs. And actually I did a
Speaker 2: little Instagram highlights of recommendations for the South Coast because
Speaker 2: that's where I live and lots of people go there
Speaker 2: on holidays, and I was like, these are the cool
Speaker 2: places to go.
Speaker 4: I'm going to be there soon, so I'm very excit.
Speaker 2: Look at that, my friend.
Speaker 1: Anyway, that's me my worst of the week. I know
Speaker 1: we're sort of news free and I'm not going to
Speaker 1: talk about the actual news, but is needing to consciously
Speaker 1: uncouple from America again.
Speaker 2: You've done a show job on this podcast, and so
Speaker 2: not watching Civil War won't be I have found myself.
Speaker 1: Longtime listeners of the show will know that I went
Speaker 1: into an absolute hyper focus from about twenty fifteen to
Speaker 1: about twenty twenty one. Pretty much with the inauguration of
Speaker 1: Joe Biden. I shifted my focus away from America and
Speaker 1: American politics. So for a lot of years I co
Speaker 1: hosted a podcast about American politics. I was that into it.
Speaker 1: I was obsessed. I would spend like honestly hours every
Speaker 1: day reading things, listening to podcasts. It was my area
Speaker 1: of expertise. After that, I felt completely exhausted and drained,
Speaker 1: and I was like, Okay, I'm looking away. And over
Speaker 1: the last few months I think I'm probably a basic
Speaker 1: bitch in this regard. I've been drawn back in. And
Speaker 1: one of my closest friends, Amelia, we've actually met and
Speaker 1: bonded over US politics back in twenty fifteen, we hilariously
Speaker 1: co hosted this podcast together. For the last four or
Speaker 1: five years, we've not spoken about US politics one time,
Speaker 1: but now she independently. We both compared notes the other day.
Speaker 1: We've both deep dived in and I don't imagine why,
Speaker 1: and exactly lots of people have. It's very engaging, and
Speaker 1: it feels also quite existential, like and I have to
Speaker 1: just keep reminding myself, this isn't my country.
Speaker 4: Yeah, why do you think you have such an emotional
Speaker 4: attachment to it given that it is the other side
Speaker 4: of the world.
Speaker 2: There's a very good reason that we all do. And
Speaker 2: that's because everyone in the West has been conditioned by
Speaker 2: all the culture that we swim in, the soup that
Speaker 2: we swim in, that America is all of our overlord, right,
Speaker 2: so if shit's going down there, we consider that we
Speaker 2: are as they say of America sneeze is you know,
Speaker 2: blah blah. I think we've kind of decided that American
Speaker 2: politics is world politics, and it isn't. But then it
Speaker 2: also kind of is because they're so powerful, so influential, etc.
Speaker 4: And they're an ally and what's happening, Yeah, could have
Speaker 4: ramifications for Australia.
Speaker 1: Ironically, also growing up in the eighties, it's a genexa.
Speaker 1: I was obsessed with American politics when I was like
Speaker 1: in primary school because Holly and I lived through anil
Speaker 1: he said, the Civil War, the Cold War like another
Speaker 1: Cold War, and then Clinton no before the drama there was.
Speaker 1: I grew up very scared of nuclear war. Like around
Speaker 1: the eighties. It was Reagan and I think it was
Speaker 1: Gorge and I remember but saying my prayers every night.
Speaker 1: And I was aware even then that it was these
Speaker 1: two old men that were in charge of the world
Speaker 1: and how we needed younger men to didn't even cour
Speaker 1: to me it could be a women, younger men to
Speaker 1: be in charge of these countries because these older men
Speaker 1: had nothing to lose. So it's interesting and I think
Speaker 1: that it feels again to me similar to that in
Speaker 1: that it's an existential threat because I feel like Donald
Speaker 1: Trump and trump Ism and now Jeddevans and all of
Speaker 1: that is so much a symbol of the patriarchy of
Speaker 1: holding back women, of winding back the clock on everything
Speaker 1: progressive about the world, from racism to homophobia to gender equality.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's literally taking the rights away from women,
Speaker 1: and so I think it does feel like an existential
Speaker 1: threat again, and that thing about when America's needs as
Speaker 1: the world catches cold, as you said, but like it
Speaker 1: feels like that could catch on here. We know that
Speaker 1: politically it can influence other countries anyway, So you're not spiraling.
Speaker 4: That's just a spiraling at all. You're worst.
Speaker 3: My mum and I are both spiral. Feel My best
Speaker 3: is I think I've mentioned it before.
Speaker 1: I've been in a little bit of a clothes funk lately,
Speaker 1: and I've been thinking that there are two reasons for it.
Speaker 3: One is that fashion has.
Speaker 1: Had a big time of quiet luxury, which I've thought
Speaker 1: is really really boring. But if you see stuff enough
Speaker 1: like minimalist dressing quiet luxury, you know, I think I
Speaker 1: just wore sequence and all those bright colors so much
Speaker 1: I just got sick of it. So that felt to
Speaker 1: me really refreshing and interesting. And I always like, that's
Speaker 1: what the fashion industry is based on, is that sort
Speaker 1: of whiplash of something different, something different, something different, And
Speaker 1: so I sort of did that, combined with the fact
Speaker 1: that I got my colors done, discovered I was an
Speaker 1: autumn realized that those colors really suit me, like browns
Speaker 1: and neutrals like cream and stuff. So then I went
Speaker 1: like really strongly into those colors instead of bright colors.
Speaker 1: So the combination of minimalist dressing, quiet luxury dressing, and
Speaker 1: me wearing brown suddenly I became quite sad. My clothes
Speaker 1: were making me sad, because my clothes bring me joy.
Speaker 1: I did an Insta bubble and someone said a lovely comment,
Speaker 1: is said in a very respectful way. Is it just me?
Speaker 1: Or since you've got your colors done, is it a
Speaker 1: bit sad? I just really love seeing you in bright colours.
Speaker 1: And I was like, so did I. And I've remembered
Speaker 1: that my fashion inspiration, my true fashion inspiration, is Carry Bradshaw,
Speaker 1: not the ridiculous over the top stuff, but so much
Speaker 1: to give her credit for something, yeah, Carry Bradshaw. Oh,
Speaker 1: she was so meaningful and just the way of you know,
Speaker 1: mixing patterns and having fun with clothes, like carry is
Speaker 1: nothing if not creative with clothes. And so I'm now
Speaker 1: just re looking at my cupboard putting away some of
Speaker 1: my brown jackets, or wearing my brown jackets with a
Speaker 1: bit of a sequin with a bit of a bright
Speaker 1: color that might not be my color, but that makes
Speaker 1: me happy. It might have been the most flattering color
Speaker 1: on me, but it actually gives me joy to look
Speaker 1: at it.
Speaker 2: I like it or carries back SI, have you been
Speaker 2: watching the Fashion Horse?
Speaker 4: My worst very criptic, but basically I've talked about this before.
Speaker 4: But when you've got people in your life who are
Speaker 4: really struggling with their mental health and how it's a
Speaker 4: very specific type of heartbreak and we're talking about ex's,
Speaker 4: it's like you feel like you'd give all the money
Speaker 4: in the world just like make them feel better, and
Speaker 4: you can't to just make them feel happy. But my best,
Speaker 4: I'm going to be insufferable. My best is Jim chat
Speaker 4: so jealous.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of my life, I'm failing at the moment.
Speaker 4: So I spoke a few months ago about how I'd
Speaker 4: gone to Cairo and my back was like lesare and
Speaker 4: hips and blah blah blah. And I was speaking to
Speaker 4: a few friends and they've been saying to me for years,
Speaker 4: you've got to do your strength training. You've got to
Speaker 4: do weight training. I'm like, I can't see myself lifting weights.
Speaker 4: I'm not a strong person. I do my pilates, which
Speaker 4: I've always loved. But they said, no, it will improve
Speaker 4: your back, it'll take away the pain. It's good for functionality. Anyway.
Speaker 4: So I joined this new gym and they had a
Speaker 4: thing where you sit with a personal trainer, like just
Speaker 4: a one on one session. Because I didn't want to
Speaker 4: get locked into any seeing a personal trainer multiple times
Speaker 4: a week, I wanted one. I wanted it to be
Speaker 4: a female. We're funny what we're talking about. I wanted
Speaker 4: it to be a female because.
Speaker 2: I only like female trainers now. Also, I like them
Speaker 2: for thirty sad not load. It's not because I'm scared
Speaker 2: of that's not because I'm scared to relate.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the reason I'm a woman was because years ago
Speaker 4: I got burned. But I want to see a man
Speaker 4: who was like, you need to eat more protein. You
Speaker 4: want to look like this, you want your absolutely to
Speaker 4: look like this, And then you'd have me with really
Speaker 4: heavy weights, and I was like, you're not understanding the assignment.
Speaker 4: I have a sore back and I would like it
Speaker 4: to be less. So anyway, she gave me this program,
Speaker 4: like she showed me how to do it all. And
Speaker 4: I've been doing it for like a month. I go
Speaker 4: three times a week, which is what I can commit to,
Speaker 4: and I feel bloody great. Like I walk out afterwards.
Speaker 4: I feel like it's doing one just for my posture.
Speaker 1: So you don't have to see her anymore, but you
Speaker 1: feel like you go in there and you've got.
Speaker 4: You know, I know what I'm doing because my worry
Speaker 4: was I'm going to go hurt myself. I'm going to
Speaker 4: lift something and I'm gonna do it roight. Yeah, But
Speaker 4: she showed me exactly how to do it, and I
Speaker 4: do exactly the same things, stretching and doing a bit
Speaker 4: of cardio or whatever I feel like, and I just
Speaker 4: feel fantastic and it's helping so much with like back pain.
Speaker 3: So is it weight bearing stuff?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: What is it?
Speaker 4: So it's like, for example, I'll do like lunges or
Speaker 4: like shoulder presses and we're not talking heavy, we're talking
Speaker 4: about eight kilos.
Speaker 1: So is it a bit. The machines, like the weights machines.
Speaker 4: It's a lot of it actually isn't a lot of.
Speaker 4: It's just like getting a weight and doing a very
Speaker 4: specific There are these muscles between your shoulder blades which
Speaker 4: are really important for posture and keeping it, especially if
Speaker 4: you suit a computer a lot. Like I've gone to
Speaker 4: the gym and gone, I don't need a six mack,
Speaker 4: I don't need a big bottom. What I need is
Speaker 4: to stand up straight and not be in pain when
Speaker 4: I'm seventy or five so not good, and to feel great.
Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting because obviously you're not there yet,
Speaker 2: but all the midwomen I know are obsessed with lifting
Speaker 2: weights now, not because they want for all the reasons
Speaker 2: you just said. It's about bone strength, body strength, being
Speaker 2: able to keep moving. It's not about like I want,
Speaker 2: Michelle Obamara, No, I love feeling strong.
Speaker 4: And ten years ago or fifteen years ago, when I
Speaker 4: went and saw that mailpta end uphurting myself, it was
Speaker 4: all men doing weights right. And now you walk into
Speaker 4: the weight section of any gym and it's at least
Speaker 4: fifty percent women, and there's no men telling you how
Speaker 4: to do when you're squating wrong and blah blah blah
Speaker 4: like you just.
Speaker 6: All that.
Speaker 4: If you haven't been to the gym for ages and
Speaker 4: you got burned, try it again because the culture has
Speaker 4: really changed and feeling amazing.
Speaker 2: That's all We've got time for my friends on this
Speaker 2: week's For this week's out loud see, I started badly,
Speaker 2: I've ended badly.
Speaker 3: It's all right, out loud as next week.
Speaker 1: I'll be better, will be better.
Speaker 2: I promise I'll be able to talk and everything. But
Speaker 2: I want to thank you out louders for being with
Speaker 2: us today. Remember, as we said on Wednesday, follow us
Speaker 2: wherever you are. Follow us just in the app that's
Speaker 2: in your hand.
Speaker 4: Get it to follow, Follow and also share where you've
Speaker 4: been listening. We really want to see.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jesse wants to know. And thank you to our
Speaker 2: brilliant team. This episode was produced by Emili and Gazillas.
Speaker 2: There's been audio production for Lea Porgees was so all
Speaker 2: on Monday.
Speaker 7: Bye.
Speaker 1: Shout out to any Muma Miya subscribers listening. If you
Speaker 1: love the show and want to support us as well,
Speaker 1: subscribing to MoMA Miya is the very best way to
Speaker 1: do so. There is a link in the episode description