WEBVTT - The Woman Tasked With Fixing Australia's Most Controversial Police Force 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:10.080 He's an Australian born man, non Indigenous, he's aged between 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:17.360 thirty and thirty four, and he's armed with a knife. 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:20.160 What I've just described to you is your average type 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:24.040 of domestic violence homicide offender in New South Wales. We 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:26.800 know all of this because of a new interactive tool 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:30.720 made by the state's Domestic Violence Death Review Team. It's 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:34.839 based on three decades worth of data. I mean, the 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:37.400 numbers are no surprise to most of us. We're losing 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:40.040 a woman a week to a former or current partner 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:44.519 in Australia. As New South Wales Police Minister Yasmin Cattley admits, 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:49.360 it's depressing, but she's trying. For three years, she's been 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:53.440 overseeing major changes to our laws and systems. In twenty 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:58.160 twenty four, New South Wales criminalized coercive control. They made 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:02.440 bail laws tougher and introduced stricter monitoring for those let out. 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:06.520 They introduced a new app called empower You so victims 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:10.840 can discreetly document abuse and seek support. They've done blitz 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:16.240 operations mass arresting offenders, but is it working. That's the 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:20.240 big question. So for the women living this reality in 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:24.640 fear with abuse, with violent men, what's next? What do 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:34.920 we actually do next? I'm Jimmy Bath and you're listening 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:38.600 to True Crime Conversations, a podcast exploring the world's most 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:41.720 notorious crimes by speaking to the people who know the 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:46.160 most about them. We don't often have politicians on this podcast, 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:50.520 but time and time again we hear about the barriers, trauma, 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:53.520 backlogs and roadblocks that are getting in the way of 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:56.080 victims and their families as they try and seek help, 0:01:56.680 --> 0:02:01.120 justice or support from our police services. Yasmin Catley is 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:04.520 only in charge of Police Encounter Terrorism in New South Wales, 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:07.560 but we were keen to hear from her, from someone 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:10.560 in a position of power to understand more about how 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:14.399 decisions are made, how change is enacted, and why progress 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:17.400 in spaces that are crying out for reform is so 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:21.440 damn slow. Catley comes from a working class family and 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:23.680 grew up in the Hunter and Central Coast regions of 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:27.040 New South Wales. Her husband is also in politics and 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:30.359 they have three daughters together. She has been a member 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:33.840 of the Australian Labour Party since she was nineteen. She 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:36.640 started off as an electric officer in the Federal Party 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:39.280 and worked in several senior Minister's Officers for more than 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:43.280 a decade. For entering State parliament, she was elected Member 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:47.080 for Swansea in twenty fifteen, and from there she's worn 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:51.480 a number of hats. Shadow Minister for Innovation and Better Regulation, 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:54.959 Shadow Minister for Building Reform and Property and for Rural 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:59.400 Regional Jobs, Deputy Leader of the Party and consequently Deputy 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:02.960 Leader of the Op position, Shadow Minister for Customer Service, 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:06.920 Shadow Minister for Digital both Shadow Minister and Minister for 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:10.239 the Hunter and as of twenty twenty three, Minister for 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:14.119 Police and counter Terrorism, which of course is why we've 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:22.840 invited her on the podcast. Here's our conversation with Yasmin Cautley. Jasmin, 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:25.720 thank you for joining us on True Crime Conversations. Can 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:28.079 you give us a bit of a background on your 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:31.720 career because I'm fascinated how someone went from being a 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:36.480 librarian to New South Wales Minister for Police and counter Terrorism. 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:38.400 I know there's a lot of gaps in there, but 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:41.880 tell me how that trajectory has kind of happened for you. 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:45.840 Yet, while I still pinch myself to quite frankly, look, 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:48.080 I did join the Labor Party when I was nineteen. 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:50.320 I come from a working class family. My dad was 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:54.000 a seafarer, so politics was something that was talked about 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:56.640 a lot in our house and he was a member 0:03:56.680 --> 0:03:58.160 of the party, so I joined as well. 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:00.800 I remember I'm a member. 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:02.080 Of the party. I should tell you. I was a 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:05.360 member of the Swansea branch. They were about seventy six 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:06.400 men and me. 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:07.160 Really. 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:09.360 Yes, he had con imagined in nineteen year. 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:11.560 Old one nineteen year old woman. 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:13.840 And guess what. I became the secretary of the branch 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:16.800 real quick. And that's because what do you do? You 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:19.479 give the woman all the work? Typical right, make my 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:24.000 blood boil? Oh well, you'd be boiling every day if 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:26.240 I could tell you half my stories, Demma, you know, 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:29.960 And then I did. I worked in public libraries for 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:32.599 most of my career and then at the I did 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:34.839 almost ten years at the Refugee Review Tribunal. So I 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:39.120 moved into Commonwealth Public Service libraries and I loved it. 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:41.640 I really enjoyed my job. And it was after my 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:44.400 third child. I was living in dullit Chill with my 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:48.400 husband and the three girls, and Anthony Albanie was my 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:49.840 local member and he said, do you want to come 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:51.080 and work in my electorate office? 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:53.839 And I did. But then we moved. 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:56.560 Back home to Swansea and I worked for Greg Combay 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:00.600 in two thousand and fourteen the he was looking for 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:03.919 a candidate for the seat of Swansea and Greg said 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:06.159 you should do that, and he encouraged me to do that. 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:08.440 And can I say It's the greatest honor of my 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:11.159 life representing my community, the people that I live, work 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:11.680 and play with. 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:15.360 So it sounds like, you know, being the member for 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:19.039 Swansea is something you're really passionate about. Oh yeah, what 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:22.599 about the police and counter terrorism portfolios? What did you 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:25.840 know about them prior to getting into that world and 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:27.680 was that something that you were excited about when you 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:28.480 got tap to do it? 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:31.800 Well, Jim, I'd spent most of my life trying to 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:36.160 avoid police, like most people quite frankly, so as. 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:38.120 A consequence of that, I didn't know a lot about it. 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:44.120 But you know, being a minister of any portfolio, you 0:05:44.120 --> 0:05:47.640 you learned. That's your job to learn the portfolio. You 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:51.680 don't need to be an expert from day one, and 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:53.359 no one can say I'm not a hard worker. So 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:57.360 I threw myself into that portfolio so that I could 0:05:57.440 --> 0:05:59.640 really learn the ins and outs of it. I've traveled 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:03.440 this state, meeting police right across the state, seeing what 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:06.159 they do, the type of work they do. I don't 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:08.440 think that there's a command that I haven't been at 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:13.120 at least once many several times. I'm really invested in it, 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:16.440 and I'm invested in it because I don't think I 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:21.440 understood exactly the intersection between police and the rest of 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:24.960 the community like I do today, and that is day 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:28.200 to day, day in, day out, Police is intersection twenty 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:31.520 four hours a day into community in New South Wales 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:36.600 is probably the only organization that has that closeness and 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:40.200 therefore that's how serious it is and how important it is. 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:42.800 So I take that very very seriously in my role 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:43.480 as their minister. 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:49.440 For listeners exactly what is your job because it's a 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:52.440 very different role to the police commissioner, but you do 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:54.480 work very closely with them. So what are you in 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:55.920 charge of? What are you doing on a day to 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:56.600 day basis. 0:06:57.200 --> 0:06:59.960 Look, my job as Police Minister is to ensure that 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:04.040 the New South Wales Police is resourced to do their job, 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:06.159 which is keep the community of New South Wales safe. 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:11.600 Obviously it's a policy direction as well, like recruitment, the 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:14.320 recruitment policy, for instance, getting more boots on the ground, 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:18.080 making sure police are staying within the organization, so reducing 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:22.480 the attrition rate. Obviously, their pay and conditions of work 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:25.160 are very important to me. If we don't look after police, 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:27.720 they will walk out the door. So they rely on 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:31.440 their minister to make sure that their well being is 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:35.120 center and mind of everything, every decision that I make, 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:40.080 and of courseslative legislation because they enforce the law. So 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:43.200 working hand in glove with the Commissioner to make sure 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:46.760 that the laws that we are implementing that the police 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:48.800 can then operationalize them. 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:49.160 On the ground. 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:51.400 So the Commissioner would come to you with kind of 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:53.560 the issues and the problems and then you'll help take 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:55.480 that into legislation and law. 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:56.080 Sure. 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:58.480 Look, the commission and I speak several times a week, 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:01.560 sometimes several times a day. Yeah, yeah, we're very close, 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:05.000 and you have to be to do the job right. Yeah, 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:08.480 that's my view. And you know, whoever is in charge 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.360 of whatever we're dealing with at the time, I will 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:13.559 speak to the person who makes the decisions within the police. 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:17.280 Ultimately that's the Commissioner, but he of course delegates responsibility 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:19.000 to other members of his workforce. 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:22.800 You when you took on these portfolios, I saw you 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:26.440 criticize the previous parliament for leaving you with a quote mess. 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:28.680 Can you tell me about that? What did you mean 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:28.960 by that? 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:34.160 Oh, it's about their attitude towards police officers themselves and 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:40.240 their pay and working conditions. Capping police officers wages sent 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:45.520 their wages backwards, and now looking back on it, we 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:48.120 were the worst paid police officers in the country. 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:48.920 Really yep. 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:51.479 So police were leaving in droves. 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:53.400 And I mean, I guess that means we're losing quality 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:54.640 police officers. 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:57.880 Well trained, that's right, like police officers at ten eleven, 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:02.280 twelve years. Like in fact, I love data and I 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:05.760 love evidence. So when we were looking at the wages 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:08.679 agreement and going into the bargaining period that happened in 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:12.560 twenty twenty three twenty four, I got them to provide 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:14.959 to me all the age groups that were leaving and 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:16.560 when they were leaving, So it was sort of between 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:19.560 that nine and eleven years that's when police were leaving. 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:22.080 Of course, they're the most experienced, they're the ones you 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:24.960 exactly want to keep. The opposite, So we had to 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:26.520 look at how are we going to keep those So 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:32.640 we devised their pay and conditions the workplace agreement to 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:38.120 specifically target those who were leaving first or the most, 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:41.840 and we were really able to customize a great deal 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:46.480 which was I think it was unanimously voted in, so 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:48.400 they went from the worst paid to the best paid. 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:52.120 But the other thing was not only were they not. 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:55.920 Paid properly, they didn't feel supported as a result of that, 0:09:56.440 --> 0:10:00.200 and there was no wrapping well being around them. A 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:03.400 well beeing unit within the New South Wales Police and 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:07.560 that's to specifically case manage individual police officers so we 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:10.000 can keep our finger on the pulse and say, hey, 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:12.600 you really should take some leave. You know, this is 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:14.640 the sort of interaction that we want and this is 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:16.800 the help that we want to be providing our New 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:20.880 South Wales Police. But it was outsourced to some external 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:26.200 works compensation scheme and police lost sight they had internally, 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:28.520 they had no idea of what was happening to each 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:31.640 individual officer. That's not how you look after people, That's 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:33.760 not how you look after a workforce. I mean, I 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:37.000 have fought hard all of my life for working people, 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:39.760 for their paying conditions, and police and are different for me, 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:42.199 and that's the one thing they know I've got their 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:42.520 back on. 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:45.319 Would you say that that was your biggest challenge when 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:46.840 you came in And how do you think you're going. 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:49.160 Is the police force happier? 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:52.480 Look, well, they certainly happier. They've got more pay one 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:56.880 hundred percent and so they should be. So they should be. Then, 0:10:56.920 --> 0:10:58.920 as I say, they're now the best paid police in 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:02.440 the country. 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:04.439 They know that I've got their back and I do. 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:08.079 I genuinely have their back because if we don't look 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.760 after our New South Wales police officers that do a. 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:11.520 Job like no other. 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:15.040 Like they do they run towards danger when everyone else 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:18.199 is running away from it. And it's a big job, 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:20.280 you know, like you see the worst of people on 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:23.079 the worst day of their life. But equally it can 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:28.160 be extraordinarily rewarding because you've helped someone out, you've managed 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:31.840 to help someone in crisis or indeed save someone's life. 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:34.320 So I mean it can be two very different jobs 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:36.839 on two very different days. But I think ultimately when 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:38.760 I talk to police they say to me, it's the 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:41.360 best job ever, and thank you so much for looking 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:44.199 after us and for supporting us and I'd tell you, 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.240 what if they do something wrong, If there's an individual 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:49.400 officer that does something wrong, and of course that's going 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:51.720 to happen, then we should call that out. And I 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:54.480 think even the police officers in there, you know, they 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:57.800 also believe in that. But ninety nine percent of the time, 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:01.160 let me tell you, they're good people, doing credibly hard job, 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:04.280 doing it very very well, and most people respect that. 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:09.800 Was there anything that surprised you when you took on 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:12.760 these portfolios got up to speed with them. What surprised 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:14.280 you about what you were dealing with? 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:20.920 Yes, lots of surprises, good surprises and not so good surprises. 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:28.040 I think I didn't realize at all that police were 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:33.719 so dependent upon across community twenty four hours a day, 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:37.160 and people think that they are, you know, their mental 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:45.319 health practitioner, a youth counselor a DV you know counselor. 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:48.560 Because police were around twenty four hours a day, I 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:52.600 felt like every incident that happened, it was why aren't 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:54.800 the police doing more? Like That's how I was being questioned, 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:57.160 why aren't the police fixing that? Why aren't the police 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:00.440 doing this? And I just was this friend set of 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:03.000 eyes that came in and sat back and said, hold up, 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:07.200 these people are law enforcement officers, then they can't be 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:12.800 everything to everyone. That's not how this works. Other departments 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:15.520 need to also take some responsibility here, so we need 0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:19.640 to work collaboratively together to be able to come up 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:23.120 with solutions for the community broadly. But the police cannot 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:25.880 harbor all of this on their shoulders alone. That's not 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:29.360 how this works. And already we're seeing some changes in 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:32.720 the mental health incident, so we've got we're to sign 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:36.440 a memorandum of understanding with Health soon so that we 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:39.440 can have the right person, right care. So that's fantastic. 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:42.960 In terms of domestic violence, of course, we've got the 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:47.000 wdvcas workers now working in police stations in some areas, 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:49.720 so people like right next door to a police officer, 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:52.439 they're sitting working as a team. So that's fantastic, working 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:55.880 very closely with the sector. And there's other examples as well. 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:58.120 So it's just a fresh set of eyes coming in 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:01.280 going who hold on a minute, this doesn't right, And 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:04.480 that's just being practical and being a community member myself. 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:08.120 And we're seeing some and you know, police like the 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:11.480 fact that there's someone there that you know is supporting 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:13.840 them and they don't have to be everything to everyone. 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:17.880 So that was a surprise to me. But good surprise, 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:23.520 like real good surprise is the variance within the organization. 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:26.680 Like it's a big organization and you can have seventeen 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:28.800 different careers within the one organization. 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:29.520 It's amazing. 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:33.320 Like I strongly recommend people check it out if they're 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:36.280 looking for a career change. It's you can be anything 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.040 you want in there. You know, you just got to 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:41.640 go through the years of service and you can be 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:43.680 anything you want in the New South Wales Police and 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:45.240 there's never been a better time to sign up. 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:46.560 Always recruiting them in a start. 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:49.520 One hundred percent. I'm dedicated. 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.920 Jemma, you've been in this role for three years now. 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:54.960 How do you think you're tracking what's your report card 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:55.640 on yourself? 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:56.360 Oh? 0:14:56.440 --> 0:15:00.880 That's a bit tricky. Are we rely on others to 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:01.440 do that for me? 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:06.360 Look, I feel there's always more work to do, hundred percent, 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:08.920 and I will keep looking for new technologies and new 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:11.480 ways of doing things because that's the sort of police 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:13.560 force we want. We want the police force of the future, 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:15.920 and if we just keep doing what we're doing, then 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:19.760 we won't be that workforce of the future, and I 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:23.080 think people of today, like young recruits of today, are 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:26.000 very different to those who were signed up forty years ago. 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:28.720 We have to remember that. So it's important that we 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:33.960 remain contemporary and ensure that the future workforce want to 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:35.680 sign up to the new South Wales Police because they 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:38.200 know they can have a long rewarding career there. How 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:42.280 am I reporting? Okay, I'm not trying to avoid the questions. 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:45.880 We're usually our own, our own best critic, so. 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:50.320 Yeah, well that is true. Look, I think that I'm 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:54.560 doing Okay, I'm still there. I mean you might recall 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:57.000 that many said that, you know, within my first year 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:00.240 I was not going to last very long. Well I've 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:02.440 outlasted most of those people who said that, so that's 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:03.000 a positive. 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:06.040 So there you go. 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.760 After the break. Are we actually making progress when it 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.880 comes to stopping men's violence against women? And why is 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:18.240 change in this space taking so long? I want to 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:21.360 start with domestic violence because obviously that is a huge 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:25.040 topic that we cover here, particularly men's violence against women. 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:29.400 We talk about it way too often, way too many cases, 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:34.280 horrific cases. We know that improving statistics in this space 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:36.560 is an uphill battle. And like you mentioned before, it's 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:40.160 a systemic issue. It's not just police, it's not just courts. 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:46.440 It's kind of a multifaceted area. How do you feel 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:49.160 about the progress that we've seen in that space since 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:52.960 you've taken on those portfolios? Are we moving in the 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:56.240 right direction in New South Wales in improving statistics with 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:58.160 DV No? 0:16:58.160 --> 0:16:59.840 No is the answer to that, but depressing. 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:03.760 I say that with a very heavy heart, and I 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.359 say it with a heavy heart because there has never 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:10.240 been more resources put into the prevention of domestic violence 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:13.560 and the crisis end of domestic violence, which is where 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:19.600 police intersect then there is today, and that in itself 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:22.320 says what in the bloody. 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:24.520 Hell is going on? Yeah, it's a problem. Yeah. 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:28.920 Look In saying that, though, let me just tell you 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:31.880 a bit about what police are doing, which is certainly, 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:33.960 as I say, from more of that crisis end, but 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:35.399 they do a bit of prevention as well. So i'll 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:38.159 take you through that if that's okay. So they've got 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:41.040 a couple of operations which are specific to domestic violence, 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:45.720 Operation Emrock now that has occurred just a few weeks 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.840 ago and some startling results, and I will read them 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:51.840 if you don't mind. Operation em Rock, I should just 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:57.200 explain to you is a targeted operation targeting high risk 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:01.520 domestic violence offenders. So New South Wales police have the 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:05.639 Domestic Violence Command. It is the own, first and only 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:09.080 in the country and it is specifically designed. 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:11.160 To look at those. 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:16.679 Repeat offenders, those recidivus offenders for domestic violence and to 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:21.760 have them targeted in operations like this. They also assist 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:24.760 every command right around the state, so if there's a 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:28.760 domestic violence issue, that all is fed back into the 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:31.800 Domestic Violence Command so that they can keep all the 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:35.400 data and then use all of that data as intelligence 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:38.600 when doing these operations. So just a couple of weeks ago, 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:42.000 they run for four days, nine hundred and ninety three arrests, 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:47.199 two thousand and sixty three chargers, fourteen three hundred and 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:53.000 eighteen advo compliance checks, three hundred and ninety one breuches identified, 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:56.600 ninety four firearms and forty eight other weapons were seized. 0:18:57.280 --> 0:19:00.480 I mean, isn't that staggering In four days almost a 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:01.840 thousand arrests. 0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:04.919 It's a bit depressing, really, I know it's good news, 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:06.760 but it's it's a bit depressing. 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:08.560 I agree, I agree. 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:11.639 In one state, might I add, might our remind listeners 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:13.320 we're talking about just New South Wales. 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:16.520 Here exactly, and I assume other states are doing you know, 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:18.960 something similar or if not, you know something the same. 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:22.159 But on what I might add is it's not just 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:25.680 unique to New South Wales. It is across this country 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:32.280 and that that too is very concerning. I honestly believe 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:35.560 that you know. In addition to that, there's another operation 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:40.159 called Operation Surge, which is actually run out of commands themselves, 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.240 so much more target in local areas. Again, we see 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:49.359 numbers that just I find staggering. We also have, because 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:51.639 of other legislative changes that we've made around bail and 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:56.680 the like, we've got more people, more males on remand 0:19:57.240 --> 0:20:00.000 than we have ever had. They're bursting at the seat, 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:05.080 and a third of those are high risk domestic violence 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:08.719 perpetrators that are on remand on remand so they are 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:13.879 locked up. But we are still seeing this awful amount 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:20.440 of breaches right around the state when Operation in Rocks runs. Now, 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:26.680 is it, I think, which is a good thing. Police 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:31.560 respond to a domestic violence incident every three minutes. That 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:36.320 is alarming. But it's also on the flip side, I think, 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:42.560 and both the sector and police tell me women are 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:47.240 more likely to report they feel that they are being heard, 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:51.560 that police are responding and that is a good thing. 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:54.520 So do you think that could be why we're seeing 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:58.720 statistics rise a bit because women are reporting? 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:03.280 I think anecdote we can say that until we can 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:05.080 get some data, like we've got to click data on 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:08.480 this stuff, right. So if we look at Boxar Statistics, 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:11.840 and they are the independent that they record all of 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:14.720 the Bureau of Crime statistics, they report that for New 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:18.840 South Wales in most crime categories, in fact, in all 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:23.879 crime categories except for three, crime is going down in 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:26.320 New South Wales. New South Wales is the safest state 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:32.639 in this country except for domestic violence. It's not going 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:35.480 up exponentially like it was three years ago when I 0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:39.960 first came in as minister, but it's still sexual assault 0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:42.760 and retail crime is the other one that's going out 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:45.760 right crime which we police again have put in you know, 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:49.960 working with need to talk about retail crime maybe for 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:50.840 another day, but. 0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:53.320 They're there about those first two though. 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:54.560 Yeah, one hundred percent, me too. 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:58.200 Domestic violence and sexual assault going up like that's. 0:21:57.920 --> 0:22:01.560 Yeah, yep, and that's trend across the country as well. 0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:04.360 The thing like when you were telling me about those 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:07.399 operation results, I was like, great, But then the next 0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:10.120