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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on. Hey friends, I just wanted to give

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Speaker 1: your heads up before we get started today that we

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Speaker 1: are discussing domestic violence in some detail. If this is

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Speaker 1: a tough topic for you, please take care when listening.

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Speaker 1: I'm Claire Murphy. This is Mumma MIA's daily news podcast,

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Speaker 1: The Quickie. The number of women killed by violent men

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Speaker 1: in Australia is not showing any signs of slowing down,

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Speaker 1: with three women allegedly murdered in the space of just

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Speaker 1: forty eight hours this past week. One thing that keeps

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Speaker 1: coming up in this conversation is how women can better

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Speaker 1: protect themselves from these men as the system continues to

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Speaker 1: fail them and in teaching men to stop being violent

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Speaker 1: towards women, but wood learning self defense actually help or

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Speaker 1: hinder the situation. We're going to look into that today,

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Speaker 1: but before we do, let's head to the Quickie newsroom

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Speaker 1: for the latest headlines. Wednesday June, rapper Kanye West is

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Speaker 1: being sued for sexual harassment, fraud, unpaid wages, and intentional

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Speaker 1: infliction of emotional distress. West hired Lauren Piskota in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty one as his personal assistant, where she claims he

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Speaker 1: sent her many explicit text messages detailing his fantasies and

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Speaker 1: what he would like to do with her in the bedroom.

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Speaker 1: There are reports he convinced Pisciota, who is an only

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Speaker 1: Fans model, to delete her only Fans account, promising to

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Speaker 1: reimburse her the one million dollar salary she would have

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Speaker 1: earned selling her pictures on the adults only service. According

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Speaker 1: to the lawsuit, West would pleasure himself while talking to

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Speaker 1: her on the phone and then ask her to guess

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Speaker 1: what he was doing. She claims he was fixated on

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Speaker 1: knowing intimate details about her boyfriends and sent her a

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Speaker 1: number of explicit videos before firing her and offering her

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Speaker 1: a redundancy package of four million dollars, which she says

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Speaker 1: he never paid. Bruce Lehman, who was now representing himself

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Speaker 1: in the appeal over his failed defamation case against Network

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Speaker 1: ten and journalist Lisa Wilkinson, claims he was denied procedural fairness.

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Speaker 1: Mister Luhman is appealing against the finding by Justice Michael

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Speaker 1: Lee that on the balance of probability he raped Britney

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Speaker 1: Higgins in Parliament House in twenty nineteen, allowing Network ten's

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Speaker 1: truth Defense to stand in defending their interview with Miss

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Speaker 1: Higgins on the project. In twenty twenty one, mister Luhman

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Speaker 1: has filed the notice of appeal documents prepared by himself

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Speaker 1: with the Federal Court, claiming that the finding of a

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Speaker 1: truth defense was contrary to the evidence and didn't reach

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Speaker 1: the standard of proof required by the judge. Since the

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Speaker 1: introduction of new incentives for gps across the country, bog

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Speaker 1: billing rates are on the rise. Since November twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 1: more than one million extra visits to the GP have

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Speaker 1: been bolk billed, the rate at which patients are not

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Speaker 1: being charged a gap at the doctor increasing three point

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Speaker 1: four percent overall in May. The increase is in response

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Speaker 1: to Medicare payments for doctors in major cities who bog

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Speaker 1: bill for a standard consult increased by thirty four percent

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Speaker 1: and fifty percent for those in rural and regional areas.

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Speaker 1: States that had historically lower rates of bog billings saw

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Speaker 1: the largest increase, with an eight point one percent rise

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Speaker 1: in Tasmania and a five point five percent rise in

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Speaker 1: the Act. The majority of the states and territories have

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Speaker 1: a bog bill rate in the seventy percent range, except

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Speaker 1: for New South Wales, which is more than eighty percent.

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Speaker 1: The Act has the lowest, at just fifty seven percent.

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Speaker 1: Police are searching for the parents of three babies who've

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Speaker 1: been abandoned over a seven year period. In London. A

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Speaker 1: baby girl was found by a person walking their dog

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Speaker 1: in January this year near a busy intersection in the

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Speaker 1: Newham district. They performed a DNA test and found she

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Speaker 1: is a full sibling to two other children, a boy

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Speaker 1: found in a park in Newham in September twenty seventeen

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Speaker 1: and a second boy found in a children's play area

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Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen. The two older children have been adopted,

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Speaker 1: but the youngest, tours estimated to have been born just

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Speaker 1: an hour before being left alone, remains in foster care.

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Speaker 1: The family Court says all three will know each other

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Speaker 1: as siblings, with plans for them to have contact as

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Speaker 1: they grow. Police say they are concerned for the welfare

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Speaker 1: of the mother and a calling for her to come forward.

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Speaker 1: That's what's happening around the world today. Next, should women

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Speaker 1: start being taught self defense? In order to give them

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Speaker 1: a better chance at surviving a violent man. We look

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Speaker 1: at the pros and cons of taking matters into your

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Speaker 1: own hands, and how martial arts might just help victim

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Speaker 1: survivors and for future generations to avoid DV altogether. The

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Speaker 1: domestic violence attack that shocks so many Australians the shooting

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Speaker 1: deaths of two innocent women in Perth late last week.

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Speaker 2: It's been one hundred and twenty one day since Amantha

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Speaker 2: Murphy left Ovalerate home for a run and never came back.

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Speaker 1: Mother of five, Rebecca Young was killed in her Sebastopol

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Speaker 1: home in a suspected murder suicide. The headlines in Australia

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Speaker 1: have been a concerning escalation in violence against women of

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Speaker 1: life eight. It's troubling for those who don't have a

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Speaker 1: violent man in their lives, and for those who do,

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Speaker 1: it only makes the fear grow. Many will wonder if

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Speaker 1: there's anything they can do to feel safer in the

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Speaker 1: world when the systems designed to stop men from doing

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Speaker 1: these things don't seem to be working. There's always been

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Speaker 1: plenty of victim blaming when it comes to women trying

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Speaker 1: to move around in the world safely from don't wear

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Speaker 1: that to, don't behave like that, don't drink that much,

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Speaker 1: don't go out at night. The lists of don'ts for

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Speaker 1: women who just want to exist without the threat of

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Speaker 1: a violent man taking away her freedom or even her

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Speaker 1: life are long. Girls are taught to be nice, smile,

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Speaker 1: don't make a scene, be polite, and don't escalate the situation.

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Speaker 1: But what if instead women are taught to be clearer

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Speaker 1: and to set boundaries without fear. That is what some

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Speaker 1: in the self defense and martial arts space say their

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Speaker 1: programs can accomplish, But there are concerns that some self

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Speaker 1: defense only classes focus more on a stranger attacking than

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Speaker 1: some one you already know, and that known factor could

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Speaker 1: potentially change how you'd respond to a physical assault. There

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Speaker 1: are also those who say that asking women to better

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Speaker 1: prepare for an attack is again victim blaming, not dealing

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Speaker 1: with the root cause of the issue, which is men's

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Speaker 1: violence against women. There are concerns that women fighting back

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Speaker 1: physically will only escalate the violence, putting her in even

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Speaker 1: more danger, and we've also seen police arrest women who

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Speaker 1: have fought back against a violent man, ending up in

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Speaker 1: legal hot water themselves, like Sydney woman Jane, who cannot

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Speaker 1: be identified, who was heavily pregnant when she claims her

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Speaker 1: husband hit her in the head and dragged her by

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Speaker 1: her hair in December twenty twenty at his parents' house.

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Speaker 1: She says that assault had followed months of coercive control

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Speaker 1: and escalating abuse by her husband, who she'd met only

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Speaker 1: nine months earlier before accidentally falling pregnant. She had no

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Speaker 1: idea of his controlling behavior before they were married. She

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Speaker 1: had contacted police previously after he he allegedly slapped her

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Speaker 1: at their home, but she declined to make it a

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Speaker 1: formal complaint, worried that he, a Lebanese national, would be deported.

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Speaker 1: Just three weeks later, Jane told police her husband snapped

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Speaker 1: and attacked her. She fought back, managing to get away,

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Speaker 1: leaving the house and calling police, but officers who attended

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Speaker 1: the scene were told by her husband that she was

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Speaker 1: the aggressor, showed them some of the minor injuries he'd

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Speaker 1: received in the altercation, and his father corroborated his son's story.

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Speaker 1: She was charged with assault because he was the one

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Speaker 1: who had physical injuries. It would be two and a

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Speaker 1: half years before the magistrate finally threw that case out

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Speaker 1: of court, Jane making an official complaint against New South

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Speaker 1: Wales Police, which was dismissed their superintendent finding the officers

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Speaker 1: involved had acted appropriately and Jane's case is not an

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Speaker 1: isolated one. A report from Australia's National Research Organization for

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Speaker 1: Women's Safety found that almost half of the women murdered

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Speaker 1: by an intimate partner in Queensland had been ida identified

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Speaker 1: by police in the past as the perpetrator rather than

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Speaker 1: the victim of domestic violence. In Victoria, a twenty eighteen

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Speaker 1: report from the Women's Legal Service found police had misidentified

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Speaker 1: one in ten of their female clients as having been

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Speaker 1: the perpetrator, and in New South Wales, around twenty five

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Speaker 1: percent of women surveyed by Women's Safety New South Wales

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Speaker 1: reported also being misidentified as the primary aggressor. So is

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Speaker 1: that an argument enough that self defense is not something

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Speaker 1: we should teach women to protect themselves. Christy Hitchins is

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Speaker 1: the founder of the Pink Belt program, who runs scholarships

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Speaker 1: for women at martial arts clubs, especially for victim survivors

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Speaker 1: of domestic violence. She says women shouldn't have to do

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Speaker 1: anything to prevent men from committing violent acts. Towards them.

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Speaker 1: But she also knows that when there are horrific and

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Speaker 1: tragic murders of women dominating the headlines, like there have

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Speaker 1: been recently, women feel compelled to do more to keep

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Speaker 1: themselves safe. Christy, what motivated you to start the Pink

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Speaker 1: Filt project?

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Speaker 2: It was a combination of factors. I started taekwondo age forty.

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Speaker 2: I joined my son in his class. He'd been training

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Speaker 2: in taekwondo for about five years. As time went on,

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Speaker 2: I came to realize that my training buddy, who I adored,

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Speaker 2: had been affected by domestic violence. She'd had to flee

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Speaker 2: her marriage set herself up independently. But I came to

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Speaker 2: understand what the benefits of martial arts were for all women,

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Speaker 2: but particularly for women who were affected by violence. So

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Speaker 2: I could see the change in her. I could see

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Speaker 2: how important it was to her recovery process, and so

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Speaker 2: it was really her that inspired this idea. And once

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Speaker 2: we worked out a way that we could help get

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Speaker 2: my training buddy back into martial arts and continue her journey.

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Speaker 2: The more I spoke to people about the concept, we

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Speaker 2: saw evidence that it was working, and it just grew

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Speaker 2: and grew.

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Speaker 1: Christy, there seems to be two conflicting camps on this

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Speaker 1: is learning self defense actually helpful when you find yourself

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Speaker 1: in a situation where you might be physically in danger.

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Speaker 2: It's a really big question, and I think for a

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Speaker 2: long time, the role of martial arts and self defense

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Speaker 2: in this kind of violence prevention space feels uncomfortable to people,

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Speaker 2: and I think that's because there's generally a bit of

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Speaker 2: a lack of understanding out there about how martial arts

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Speaker 2: can help. So I want to try and address some

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Speaker 2: of that disinformation confusion around the role. The answer is

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Speaker 2: actually yes and no. But the problem is that not

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Speaker 2: all self defense courses are created equal. There's a lot

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Speaker 2: of them out there, and we see situations at the moment,

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Speaker 2: you know, tragic events where women are being murdered are

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Speaker 2: dominating the headlines. Women want to do anything they can

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Speaker 2: to improve their sense of safety, and feeling like a

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Speaker 2: self defense course can help that tends to be the

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Speaker 2: sort of thing they start to go looking for. There

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Speaker 2: is some amazing, really high quality research out there that

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Speaker 2: shows women train in self defense are not only more

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Speaker 2: likely to be able to fight off a potential attacker

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Speaker 2: or rapist, but they're actually more likely to even not

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Speaker 2: encounter one in the first place.

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Speaker 1: So can you explain why that might be chrissy? Like,

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Speaker 1: what is it about having learned self defense or martial arts?

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Speaker 1: Does it not put you in the path of that

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Speaker 1: potential attacker or is it more about the vibe you

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Speaker 1: give off that you're not someone to be messed with?

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Speaker 1: What stops someone from becoming a victim in the first place.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So the first thing I'll say is that the

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Speaker 2: self defense that's shown to be successful generally involves something

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Speaker 2: more than just a one off two our exercise. This

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Speaker 2: is an ongoing program of instruction and skills developed over time.

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Speaker 2: But generally part of the curriculum of these more ongoing

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Speaker 2: classes and the training that you develop is you begin

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Speaker 2: to understand predator behavior and recognize red flags in behavior.

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Speaker 2: So this is where self defense and martial arts really

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Speaker 2: come to the fore in terms of violence prevention, because women,

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden are more able to spot those

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Speaker 2: red flags in behavior, They're more able to voice their boundaries,

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Speaker 2: and so this is where it starts to prevent an

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Speaker 2: attack from even occurring in the first place.

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Speaker 1: There are people who say, sure, you can teach women's

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Speaker 1: self defense but men are physically stronger than women, and

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Speaker 1: all you're doing is setting a woman up to be

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Speaker 1: hurt even more if she were to challenge a man physically.

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Speaker 1: What do you say to that.

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Speaker 2: The research again actually tells a different story. But again

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Speaker 2: I have to qualify that by saying that the research

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Speaker 2: on this looks at self defense classes that have been

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Speaker 2: taken over a period of time. They're not a short

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Speaker 2: one off. And this is one of my concerns about

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Speaker 2: these short self defense courses. Is it that can provide

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Speaker 2: a sort of false sense of confidence or security and

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Speaker 2: how effective something that you'veice a couple of times is

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Speaker 2: actually going to help you in a situation where you're

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Speaker 2: overcome by fright and flight type reflexes. But a longer,

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Speaker 2: more developed self defense class can actually teach you techniques

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Speaker 2: that don't rely on strength power. They involve a skill

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Speaker 2: which can tend to even use the person's size and

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Speaker 2: strength against them. So absolutely it can be very effective,

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Speaker 2: but it's not a silver bullet. It takes time to

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Speaker 2: develop these skills.

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Speaker 1: Now, you mentioned there that for women who do engage

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Speaker 1: with martial arts, over time, they do start to get

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Speaker 1: a sense of that predatory behavior and can spot a

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Speaker 1: red flag. Would that then kind of mean that women

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Speaker 1: who have experienced a violent relationship or how to controlling

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Speaker 1: a coercive partner may too also benefit from engaging in

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Speaker 1: martial arts and self defense to return to confidence after

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Speaker 1: going through something.

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Speaker 2: Like that one hundred percent. And there's some research on that,

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Speaker 2: and we've actually a Pink Belt project done our own

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Speaker 2: research which shows that, you know, women generally report high

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Speaker 2: levels of benefit from engaging in martial arts, but the

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Speaker 2: group surveyed who reported the highest improvements in things like confidence,

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Speaker 2: mental health, empowerment, all those aspects were women who had

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Speaker 2: experienced violence in the past. You know, we talk about

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Speaker 2: martial arts as being a really powerful tool for recovery

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Speaker 2: from violence. And one of the reasons that's so important

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Speaker 2: is because for anyone who might understand how the cycle

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Speaker 2: of violence works, somebody who has been exposed to violence

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Speaker 2: in their past is more likely to experience another violent

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Speaker 2: relationship in their future because they just don't have the

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Speaker 2: ability to spot those red flags, because that's from their

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Speaker 2: perspective being entirely normal behavior that they're very used to.

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Speaker 2: So really, really important that women who have experienced violence

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Speaker 2: in the past have the opportunity and the tools to

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Speaker 2: be able to recover from that violence and develop their

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Speaker 2: sense of self worth again so that they can really

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Speaker 2: understand that they're worth defending.

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Speaker 1: Does it matter which type of martial arts you engaged with,

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Speaker 1: because there are so many different ones you can choose from,

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Speaker 1: Are there ones in particular that are more suited to

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Speaker 1: self defense?

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Speaker 2: A pink belt project. The martial arts that we tend

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Speaker 2: to work with are known as the traditional martial arts,

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Speaker 2: and that comes in many forms. That's your taekwondo, karate, aikido, hapkido.

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Speaker 2: But one of the things that's really common to all

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Speaker 2: of these traditional martial arts is a belt rank system,

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Speaker 2: and that perhaps is one of the most obvious signs

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Speaker 2: that this class that you might be contemplating is the

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Speaker 2: traditional martial art. The traditional martial arts tend to have

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Speaker 2: a more body mind, spirit type approach, which enhances the

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Speaker 2: kind of therapeutic effects of it. But key to what

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Speaker 2: we see as contributing to the therapeutic effects is this

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Speaker 2: belt rank system, because it's this beautifully segmented, highly recognizable

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Speaker 2: incremental pathway for personal development and effective for that.

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Speaker 1: I guess one of the barriers that women might come

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Speaker 1: up against when thinking about going down this path is

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Speaker 1: the cost of it. With those sort of shorter self

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Speaker 1: defense courses you're talking about, sometimes they're a little bit

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Speaker 1: more affordable than doing something long term. What do you

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Speaker 1: suggest to people who might really want to engage with

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Speaker 1: this and feel like it might help them mentally and physically,

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Speaker 1: but financially they can't do it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's absolutely an issue and something that we try

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Speaker 2: to address with Pink Belt Project by offering one year scholarships.

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Speaker 2: We have clubs located in every state and territory of

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Speaker 2: Australia in some overseas locations. They're trained in providing a

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Speaker 2: trauma informed approach and they take on an applicant who

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Speaker 2: is able to train for one year at no cost.

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Speaker 2: Everything's covered uniform belts, membership fees, and then at Pink

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Speaker 2: Belt Project we also provide some wrap around supports in

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Speaker 2: the form of workshops and connection with others to really

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Speaker 2: help support them through what can sometimes be a rather

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Speaker 2: daunting first few steps but eventually turns out to be,

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Speaker 2: from what we've seen, a really transformative process.

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Speaker 1: If you're currently feeling unsafe in your world, please reach

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Speaker 1: out to someone who can help one eight hundred respect.

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Speaker 1: The National Domestic and Family Violence Hotline is standing by

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Speaker 1: to help you deal with whatever you're facing. And if

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Speaker 1: you think self defense for women is a way in

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Speaker 1: which you and she can feel safer, then why not

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Speaker 1: consider supporting the Pink Belt Project. The link to their

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Speaker 1: website is in our show notes. Mamma Mia is also

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Speaker 1: a proud partner with Rise Up, a charity organization that

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Speaker 1: helps with life changing practical support for families affected by

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Speaker 1: domestic violence. You can support them through the link in

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Speaker 1: our show notes too. The quickie is produced by me

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Speaker 1: Claire Murphy and our executive producer, Cali rin Tool, with

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Speaker 1: audio production by Tomline