WEBVTT - The Missing Minute & The Missing Body 0:00:10.622 --> 0:00:13.382 You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. 0:00:13.822 --> 0:00:17.182 Muma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:17.222 --> 0:00:21.942 that this podcast is recorded on. Welcome to Mummy are 0:00:21.942 --> 0:00:25.662 out Loud where women come to debrief. I am Jesse Stevens, 0:00:26.021 --> 0:00:26.342 I'm to. 0:00:26.421 --> 0:00:28.702 Me Moore, and I'm Amelia Luster. 0:00:28.942 --> 0:00:30.182 Now why are you Demi Moore? 0:00:30.262 --> 0:00:33.662 Because I'm very husky today. Oh it's my only fans voice. 0:00:33.902 --> 0:00:34.702 You sound like shit. 0:00:34.902 --> 0:00:36.702 Yeah, I know. I'm so sorry out that is. I 0:00:36.702 --> 0:00:38.262 know it's really annoying to listen to someone when they 0:00:38.302 --> 0:00:40.382 don't have much of a voice. So I'll try to 0:00:40.422 --> 0:00:43.022 speak less than usual. But there's so much good stuff 0:00:43.022 --> 0:00:45.822 today that I couldn't I know you I had fomo. 0:00:46.022 --> 0:00:48.501 You're also curled your eyelashes with mscara On, and I'm 0:00:48.502 --> 0:00:49.622 still recovering from that. 0:00:49.862 --> 0:00:52.302 Guys, just live a little yeah out loud as we 0:00:52.302 --> 0:00:53.982 were sitting here getting ready, I don't know why you've 0:00:53.982 --> 0:00:56.182 felt the urge to curl your eyelashes. The outlouders aren't 0:00:56.182 --> 0:00:58.462 looking at your eyelashes, but you did it with muscara 0:00:58.622 --> 0:01:00.702 On and we're concerned that you're pulling them out of 0:01:00.702 --> 0:01:02.462 the roof. And we've had an intervention. 0:01:02.662 --> 0:01:05.461 You would be right. Sometimes I do okay, all right, 0:01:05.542 --> 0:01:07.142 but it works better. 0:01:07.382 --> 0:01:09.982 Here's what's on our agenda for today, Wednesday, the sixteenth 0:01:10.062 --> 0:01:14.382 of July. Bradley John Murdoch died in custody overnight, almost 0:01:14.462 --> 0:01:19.022 exactly twenty four years after murdering Peter Falconio in the Outback. 0:01:19.542 --> 0:01:21.622 So why is his death so significant? 0:01:21.942 --> 0:01:24.102 It has been a big week for hate watching. There 0:01:24.102 --> 0:01:26.862 are two shows in particular that a lot of people 0:01:27.022 --> 0:01:29.622 hate watching, including some of us, And we're going to 0:01:29.662 --> 0:01:31.822 talk about the reason why so many of us are 0:01:31.822 --> 0:01:34.422 clocking so much time in front of shows that we 0:01:34.462 --> 0:01:35.822 objectively think are terrible. 0:01:36.182 --> 0:01:39.742 And Jeffrey Epstein, Donald Trump and the Missing Files that 0:01:39.902 --> 0:01:43.581 everyone wants to see. But first, in case you missed it, 0:01:43.662 --> 0:01:46.942 Millennials are getting revenge on gen Z for making fun 0:01:46.982 --> 0:01:50.142 of their nose show socks and their side parts and 0:01:50.182 --> 0:01:53.022 I am so here for it. On TikTok, millennials are 0:01:53.022 --> 0:01:56.702 talking about the gen Zed stare. This is, in particular 0:01:56.742 --> 0:02:01.022 a workplace phenomenon where gen Z employees Greek customers or 0:02:01.062 --> 0:02:04.502 colleagues with a vacant expression and are unable to respond 0:02:04.502 --> 0:02:09.022 to niceties or polite conversation. So in various TikTok skits, 0:02:09.262 --> 0:02:13.462 what happens is that users place themselves in this hypothetical situation. 0:02:13.501 --> 0:02:15.181 They might be in a coffee shop, or they might 0:02:15.222 --> 0:02:18.542 be in a restaurant, and they roll play the order 0:02:18.622 --> 0:02:21.542 taking process with a gen Z employee, and you just 0:02:21.622 --> 0:02:24.662 see this young worker stare back at them with dead eyes. 0:02:25.142 --> 0:02:27.182 They look at you just like they saw a ghost. 0:02:27.262 --> 0:02:30.782 Said one TikToker. It's this blank deer in the headlights stare. 0:02:31.422 --> 0:02:34.381 And the hashtag gen zed stare has actually reached more 0:02:34.422 --> 0:02:38.622 than four thousand posts on TikTok. There's viral videos, Jesse, 0:02:38.982 --> 0:02:42.022 fellow millennial, Are we just getting jed Z back for 0:02:42.142 --> 0:02:44.662 coining the idea of the millennial pause? 0:02:45.382 --> 0:02:47.781 Yes, and no, there is something about gen Z that 0:02:47.822 --> 0:02:50.022 I look at and go, it's some of what we're 0:02:50.022 --> 0:02:53.862 critiquing them for, the inevitable sort of immaturity of being 0:02:53.902 --> 0:02:56.662 twenty Like, is that how we all behave in not? 0:02:57.102 --> 0:02:59.902 When you worked at Jumper Juice, I'm sure you always 0:02:59.902 --> 0:03:01.862 bought your a game post. 0:03:01.742 --> 0:03:05.822 Juice, No American. I think it's because they don't know 0:03:05.822 --> 0:03:09.782 how to do listening face when you have communicated your 0:03:09.782 --> 0:03:13.542 whole life via text message you don't know how to 0:03:13.782 --> 0:03:15.341 do active listening face. 0:03:15.622 --> 0:03:18.462 The thing about gen Zed is that they are a 0:03:18.822 --> 0:03:23.022 generation who has had an entirely different experience to any 0:03:23.062 --> 0:03:25.302 generation before them for two reasons. The first is the 0:03:25.462 --> 0:03:29.942 text messaging, the second is the pandemic. So they lost 0:03:30.382 --> 0:03:34.462 two years of what is being called kind of soft skills. 0:03:34.942 --> 0:03:38.222 And there was an incredible article in Fortune about the 0:03:38.262 --> 0:03:43.222 gen Z presence in workplaces and how soft skills that 0:03:43.582 --> 0:03:46.822 managers and bosses took for granted and thought people just 0:03:46.862 --> 0:03:50.022 had and now having to become really explicitly trained. And 0:03:50.062 --> 0:03:52.302 I do think that there's a bit of cruelty to 0:03:52.342 --> 0:03:55.422 the mocking of gen Z because it's not their fault. 0:03:55.502 --> 0:03:59.942 Like at a formative age of adolescence, this demographic were 0:03:59.982 --> 0:04:02.622 in their homes, they said bye to their friends one day, 0:04:02.662 --> 0:04:04.422 and for some of them, they didn't see them for months, 0:04:04.462 --> 0:04:05.902 potentially even years. 0:04:05.982 --> 0:04:09.862 They were doing zoom. But Jesse the millennial poor, which 0:04:09.902 --> 0:04:13.342 we should explain, is the phenomenon whereby when millennials are 0:04:13.342 --> 0:04:15.942 recording a social media video, they kind of pause at 0:04:15.942 --> 0:04:17.982 the side of the video to check that it's recording 0:04:18.101 --> 0:04:20.821 and the proceed which of course we all do. That's 0:04:20.861 --> 0:04:23.582 not our fault either. We didn't grow up with TikTok, 0:04:23.662 --> 0:04:26.501 and we're still being lamp basted for what we do now. 0:04:26.541 --> 0:04:29.861 There are invisible socks. Well, no one even talks about 0:04:29.941 --> 0:04:30.421 gen X. 0:04:30.541 --> 0:04:33.101 No, you're completely irrelevant Millennials. I feel like I've really 0:04:33.181 --> 0:04:35.301 copped this on the chin. I think that we're pretty 0:04:35.301 --> 0:04:38.741 good at being made fun of. What's been telling about 0:04:38.741 --> 0:04:42.421 this is that gen Z don't like it. They're going, well, 0:04:42.582 --> 0:04:45.101 I don't owe you a smile, And it's a generations 0:04:45.101 --> 0:04:48.822 emotional labor. Yes, that's been raised on authenticity and not 0:04:48.941 --> 0:04:52.941 just owing someone pleasantries, which is funny because welcome to 0:04:52.941 --> 0:04:55.541 customer service, welcome to any job where you engage with 0:04:55.582 --> 0:04:57.701 the public. And what this Fortune article was saying is 0:04:57.741 --> 0:05:02.462 that there are all these misunderstandings, complaints from customers, they're 0:05:02.462 --> 0:05:05.421 being perceived as rude. But this could be kind of, 0:05:05.621 --> 0:05:10.261 I guess, like a cultural turning point where this fakery 0:05:10.462 --> 0:05:13.262 that millennials and gen X have engaged in where we're 0:05:13.301 --> 0:05:15.942 kind of over the top nice or whatever, maybe now 0:05:15.981 --> 0:05:18.861 we're just more straightforward and when we're not nice, if 0:05:18.902 --> 0:05:20.181 we don't feel like it. 0:05:20.181 --> 0:05:22.182 It reminds me of you know, third children, have to 0:05:22.262 --> 0:05:26.222 raise themselves. And I remember with my third child, I 0:05:26.301 --> 0:05:28.741 realized that I this is when landlines were still around. 0:05:28.741 --> 0:05:31.101 I realized I'd forgotten how to tell him to end 0:05:31.101 --> 0:05:34.742 a phone conversation and he would just finish speaking in. 0:05:34.741 --> 0:05:37.502 A so he basically was like in any movie or 0:05:37.541 --> 0:05:40.342 TV show, they never say goodbye. No, he was living that. 0:05:41.142 --> 0:05:43.021 Maybe this is the problem. They just haven't been taught 0:05:43.022 --> 0:05:46.622 that you have to have active listening face overnight. 0:05:46.741 --> 0:05:49.582 Bradley John Murdoch died at the age of sixty seven, 0:05:49.902 --> 0:05:53.302 twenty four years after murdering a man named Peter Falconio. 0:05:53.821 --> 0:05:57.261 You've probably seen the headlines today. There's a lot of names, 0:05:57.702 --> 0:05:59.461 but I want to go back a few steps and 0:05:59.582 --> 0:06:04.381 explain what happened and why his death is so significant. 0:06:04.941 --> 0:06:07.022 So it's July two thousand and one, and it's almost 0:06:07.061 --> 0:06:10.981 exactly twenty four years to the day. British backpackers Peter 0:06:11.061 --> 0:06:13.621 Falconio he was twenty eight at the time, and Joanne 0:06:13.662 --> 0:06:16.621 Lee's she was twenty seven. They were boyfriend and girlfriend 0:06:17.022 --> 0:06:20.981 were road tripping around Australia and their parents were really 0:06:21.022 --> 0:06:23.261 anxious about this leg of their trip. They'd gone to 0:06:23.301 --> 0:06:26.222 a few places before and they were anxious because the 0:06:26.262 --> 0:06:29.581 Ivan Malatt backpacker murders had happened, and also it was 0:06:29.582 --> 0:06:32.301 in the wake of the Port Arthur massacre. And so 0:06:33.061 --> 0:06:35.421 they said to their parents were going to be really careful. 0:06:35.582 --> 0:06:36.301 It's fine. 0:06:36.582 --> 0:06:39.101 And they're a little bit older than your average backpacker. 0:06:39.262 --> 0:06:41.782 They weren't in their early twenties or late teens. They were, 0:06:42.061 --> 0:06:43.181 you know, almost thirty. 0:06:42.981 --> 0:06:45.101 And they were seasoned travelers. And so I was a 0:06:45.142 --> 0:06:48.782 travel agent. Yeah, that's right. She actually worked at the 0:06:48.821 --> 0:06:52.061 Dimmick's store on George Street, which is literally about five 0:06:52.101 --> 0:06:54.221 minutes down the road, in order to save this trip. 0:06:54.821 --> 0:06:58.142 And on July fourteen, they reached Alice Springs and then 0:06:58.181 --> 0:07:02.101 they continued along the Stuart Highway towards the Devil's Marbles 0:07:02.101 --> 0:07:04.341 and as they passed this tiny town called Barrow Creek, 0:07:04.582 --> 0:07:07.862 they noticed headlights behind them, and then the driver came 0:07:07.902 --> 0:07:11.062 up beside them and Jess and basically said, there's sparks 0:07:11.102 --> 0:07:14.662 coming out of your car, and so they exited the car. 0:07:14.862 --> 0:07:18.302 Peter Falconio went behind the car with the man who 0:07:18.342 --> 0:07:22.422 would be Bradley John Murdock, and Joanne Lee's was in 0:07:22.462 --> 0:07:24.542 the driver's seat because she was revving the engine to 0:07:24.622 --> 0:07:27.022 see what was happening, and at that point she had 0:07:27.022 --> 0:07:28.581 a bang, and she wondered if it was to do 0:07:28.622 --> 0:07:32.782 with the car. It was actually a gunshot to Peter Falconio. 0:07:33.342 --> 0:07:36.782 And then Murdoch walked up the side, held a gun 0:07:36.821 --> 0:07:40.622 to her head and essentially tied her hands used from 0:07:40.622 --> 0:07:45.022 asking tape and put her in the tray of his truck. 0:07:45.662 --> 0:07:48.942 And then I'd forgotten all of the yeah, and then 0:07:48.982 --> 0:07:52.261 he Murdoch walked off to go and do something. She 0:07:52.302 --> 0:07:55.782 heard banging, and she had been fighting and fighting so 0:07:55.821 --> 0:07:58.502 that he couldn't put the cable ties around her ankles, 0:07:59.262 --> 0:08:02.342 and this meant that when he moved, she could kind 0:08:02.381 --> 0:08:05.022 of push her way off the tray and she ran 0:08:05.142 --> 0:08:08.622 and she hid behind bushes for five hours while she 0:08:08.662 --> 0:08:11.862 was hunted by who was looking for her with a torch. 0:08:12.462 --> 0:08:14.782 And then eventually there was like a road train that 0:08:14.821 --> 0:08:18.062 came past and she signaled and was rescued and then 0:08:18.102 --> 0:08:24.582 went to police. The investigation then became infamous because Lee's 0:08:24.782 --> 0:08:28.341 whose boyfriend had been murdered and she'd been attacked, actually 0:08:28.381 --> 0:08:30.782 came under suspicion. Do you remember this part of it? 0:08:31.062 --> 0:08:32.102 Because she didn't cry enough. 0:08:32.302 --> 0:08:36.182 Yes, So eleven days after this absolute tragedy, there was 0:08:36.182 --> 0:08:38.182 a press conference and she turned up and she had 0:08:38.182 --> 0:08:41.422 a T shirt on that said cheeky monkey, and people 0:08:41.462 --> 0:08:44.382 saw that as incredibly insensitive. 0:08:43.742 --> 0:08:45.942 Which is a bar and Barren Bay that they'd probably 0:08:45.942 --> 0:08:46.342 traveled to. 0:08:46.502 --> 0:08:46.702 Yeah. 0:08:46.742 --> 0:08:50.302 Yeah, And you can see how in the trauma of 0:08:50.302 --> 0:08:52.262 what had occurred, you wouldn't even think about what was 0:08:52.302 --> 0:08:56.022 on your singlet. There was what she was wearing. There 0:08:56.142 --> 0:08:59.502 was the way she communicated with the media, which people 0:08:59.622 --> 0:09:02.062 saw as a bit stand office. She only wanted a 0:09:02.062 --> 0:09:04.622 few questions, and she didn't cry on cue. 0:09:04.902 --> 0:09:06.622 She must have been in such deep shock. 0:09:06.982 --> 0:09:07.182 Yeah. 0:09:07.302 --> 0:09:07.502 Yeah. 0:09:07.862 --> 0:09:11.702 The other thing here is parallel to Linda Chamberlain and 0:09:11.862 --> 0:09:15.862 the baby Azaria incident, also in the Outback. But what 0:09:15.942 --> 0:09:18.902 is interesting about both cases is that there's one woman 0:09:19.022 --> 0:09:21.862 who was the sole witness to the crime. And it's 0:09:21.862 --> 0:09:24.542 interesting that that's part of why I guess they get 0:09:24.582 --> 0:09:25.422 so undercut. 0:09:25.822 --> 0:09:29.062 Yes, and also with women, I think that we expect 0:09:30.142 --> 0:09:32.262 a level of an emotional response that we might not 0:09:32.342 --> 0:09:36.022 from a man. We expect the tears, And as someone 0:09:36.142 --> 0:09:40.502 who struggles to cry, I've always found these stories really 0:09:40.502 --> 0:09:46.382 interesting because people behave in incredibly unusual ways and unexpected 0:09:46.422 --> 0:09:49.302 ways in the face of tragedy, and that's what you 0:09:49.382 --> 0:09:52.102 learned from a lot of these stories. And what eventually 0:09:52.182 --> 0:09:55.142 happened was that the suspicion around her got so great 0:09:55.222 --> 0:09:58.742 that the police took her in for questioning. They interrogated 0:09:58.782 --> 0:10:01.782 her for three and a half hours, which you know, 0:10:01.942 --> 0:10:05.582 she found incredibly traumatizing, and eventually she was released without charge. 0:10:05.902 --> 0:10:07.822 Then a few years later there's a tip off from 0:10:07.822 --> 0:10:10.662 a man who said he knows who did it. Murdoch's 0:10:10.702 --> 0:10:14.582 DNA matched the DNA that was on Joanne Lee's clothes 0:10:14.622 --> 0:10:15.382 that she was wearing. 0:10:15.542 --> 0:10:18.062 And apparently, by the way that DNA, it was one 0:10:18.142 --> 0:10:21.342 hundred and fifty quadrillion times more likely to have come 0:10:21.342 --> 0:10:23.862 from Murdock than anyone else. Wow. 0:10:24.582 --> 0:10:27.342 Yeah, because they always say the likelihood of it, and 0:10:27.422 --> 0:10:32.742 so they tested that. They then found Murdoch. He was arrested, charged, sentenced, 0:10:33.102 --> 0:10:37.022 but he's always denied any involvement. The DNA is the point. 0:10:37.062 --> 0:10:41.141 And also his gun had Joanne Lees's hair tie around. 0:10:40.862 --> 0:10:42.662 It, and he also had some of her blood on 0:10:42.662 --> 0:10:44.862 his T shirt, yes, which he said he picked up 0:10:44.902 --> 0:10:46.502 because they were at the same lunch spot. 0:10:46.542 --> 0:10:48.302 Earlier that day exactly. 0:10:48.502 --> 0:10:50.942 But that said, I mean yes, so obviously all the 0:10:50.982 --> 0:10:53.782 evidence was really overwhelming, which is why he was convicted. 0:10:53.942 --> 0:10:58.302 But inevitably in these cases online slew some particular like 0:10:58.342 --> 0:11:01.822 to pick at holes, and there were unanswered questions about it, 0:11:01.862 --> 0:11:04.862 for instance, the motive for the crimes. This guy was 0:11:04.902 --> 0:11:08.381 a low level marijuana dealer by all accounts, and this 0:11:08.422 --> 0:11:11.182 really took his crime to the next level, and there 0:11:11.222 --> 0:11:13.982 was no apparent motive for it. I'm going to ask. 0:11:13.862 --> 0:11:16.382 About what his I have no memory of what his 0:11:16.382 --> 0:11:17.062 history had been. 0:11:17.462 --> 0:11:19.982 He was a low level marijuana dealer, but. 0:11:20.062 --> 0:11:22.302 Just like a loner. Had he been married, he was 0:11:22.382 --> 0:11:22.822 a loner. 0:11:22.942 --> 0:11:25.502 The only person to stand by him during the trial, 0:11:25.582 --> 0:11:28.702 which is interesting, was his girlfriend. Her name was Jen Pittman. 0:11:29.222 --> 0:11:32.102 Otherwise all of his former friends. The tip off actually 0:11:32.102 --> 0:11:34.222 came from one of his former friends. You know how 0:11:34.422 --> 0:11:37.862 sometimes when a serial killer, or when a particularly horrific 0:11:37.942 --> 0:11:41.222 murderer is found, the neighbors there's this cliche of the 0:11:41.262 --> 0:11:44.062 neighbors saying he was quiet, he catched himself. Not so 0:11:44.382 --> 0:11:47.702 with Murdoch. He was a no one racist and noa misogynist. 0:11:47.862 --> 0:11:51.422 He had beaten women before all of his friends disavowed 0:11:51.502 --> 0:11:54.222 him his former friends, so there was a sense that 0:11:54.262 --> 0:11:57.422 this was not necessarily surprising, but it was a big 0:11:57.502 --> 0:12:00.502 step up in terms of his past behavior of past crime. 0:12:00.622 --> 0:12:02.782 He wasn't a malat where you look at it that 0:12:02.862 --> 0:12:07.742 there's a pattern of behavior. But Murdoch denied that he 0:12:07.822 --> 0:12:10.302 had done this. And so the reason why it is 0:12:10.342 --> 0:12:13.582 so significant that he died this week is that he 0:12:13.782 --> 0:12:18.102 never told the family where Falconio's body. 0:12:18.142 --> 0:12:19.662 Is, and they never found the body. 0:12:19.702 --> 0:12:20.942 And they've never found the body. 0:12:21.662 --> 0:12:23.822 I mean, the outback is a very good place. But 0:12:24.982 --> 0:12:26.702 if he never admitted it, he never said what his 0:12:26.782 --> 0:12:29.102 motive was. No, no, so we never knew. 0:12:29.062 --> 0:12:32.382 No exactly right. And there is laws in some Australian states. 0:12:32.382 --> 0:12:34.422 New South Wales is one of them. It's called a 0:12:34.422 --> 0:12:36.782 nobody no parole law. So he was going to be 0:12:36.782 --> 0:12:40.542 eligible for parole I think in about twenty thirty two 0:12:40.662 --> 0:12:42.902 or something like that. He was never going to be 0:12:42.982 --> 0:12:46.062 allowed to do that unless he told authorities and the 0:12:46.102 --> 0:12:49.502 family where the body is. Because this is something when 0:12:49.542 --> 0:12:52.662 I hosted true crime conversations, this came up a lot, 0:12:52.822 --> 0:12:56.381 which is that it is the only power, and it's 0:12:56.422 --> 0:13:00.942 often men like Murdock hold over a victim and the 0:13:00.982 --> 0:13:02.062 victim's family. 0:13:01.822 --> 0:13:04.502 And I think part of the problem is meou references before, 0:13:04.542 --> 0:13:07.342 but the vastness of the outbacks so he What we 0:13:07.382 --> 0:13:10.502 know is that he drove eighteen hours after this on 0:13:10.702 --> 0:13:13.702 unsealed roads. It was a total of eighteen hundred kilometers, 0:13:14.102 --> 0:13:16.542 So no wonder they couldn't find the body because this 0:13:16.622 --> 0:13:20.022 is obviously a huge area. And I think that's part 0:13:20.022 --> 0:13:25.142 of why this story fascinated not just Australians but also 0:13:25.342 --> 0:13:30.062 people overseas, because it taps into all these fears that 0:13:30.382 --> 0:13:32.422 a lot of people around the world feel about the 0:13:32.542 --> 0:13:36.102 vastness of Australia and in particular the sort of severity 0:13:36.102 --> 0:13:39.702 of the outback is a landscape. We've seen how dangerous 0:13:39.702 --> 0:13:42.062 the outback is. Just last week we got another reminder 0:13:42.102 --> 0:13:45.662 when that German backpacker Carolina Wilger was found after eleven days. 0:13:45.662 --> 0:13:48.262 She lost twelve kilograms stranded out there in the outback. 0:13:48.342 --> 0:13:52.102 There are so many Australian books set there because the 0:13:52.142 --> 0:13:54.142 fear of even the outback with no one in it 0:13:54.182 --> 0:13:54.862 is terrifying. 0:13:55.022 --> 0:13:57.742 And reading about this I came across an interesting fact, 0:13:57.782 --> 0:14:00.742 which is, you know the movie Wolf Creek that was 0:14:00.862 --> 0:14:03.782 due to come out during the trial because it was 0:14:03.822 --> 0:14:06.062 an extremely long murder trial, one of the longest urder 0:14:06.102 --> 0:14:09.222 trials ever in Australia, and the judge at the time 0:14:09.622 --> 0:14:12.782 actually delay the Australian release of this horror movie Wolf 0:14:12.822 --> 0:14:15.662 Creek because he was worried that the plot synopsis was 0:14:15.782 --> 0:14:18.902 very similar. It's that classic sort of nightmarish trope of 0:14:19.422 --> 0:14:22.942 a crazed killer and the outback stalking people, and it 0:14:23.062 --> 0:14:25.902 just shows that that's really deeply embedded in us, like 0:14:25.942 --> 0:14:28.302 that's something that we have a fear of the outback 0:14:28.382 --> 0:14:30.622 for good reason. It's a very harsh place. 0:14:30.702 --> 0:14:33.542 And for anyone who has traveled to the outback in 0:14:33.582 --> 0:14:38.742 Australia and driven, you will know that seeing headlights behind 0:14:38.782 --> 0:14:41.022 you is actually really rare, Like you can drive for 0:14:41.262 --> 0:14:44.542 hours for days and not see anyone. So that fact 0:14:44.542 --> 0:14:48.502 of even seeing someone and then realizing the vulnerability of 0:14:48.502 --> 0:14:50.942 that moment of having someone there that you would have 0:14:50.942 --> 0:14:53.902 almost no choice, which is also I suppose with Malat 0:14:53.902 --> 0:14:56.342 why the mythology of that exists. It's just such a 0:14:56.542 --> 0:15:01.422 terrifying situation. And imagine being Lee's and experiencing that and 0:15:01.502 --> 0:15:04.622 then feeling the weight of all the speculation that comes 0:15:04.622 --> 0:15:07.502 at you. But I think more than anything, it's just 0:15:07.542 --> 0:15:12.062 a really sad day because for that family, hope feels lost, 0:15:12.302 --> 0:15:14.542 hope that they can bury and kind of laid to 0:15:14.622 --> 0:15:18.422 rest their son who will forever be twenty eight that 0:15:18.502 --> 0:15:20.662 dies with Murdock in. 0:15:20.622 --> 0:15:23.062 A moment the two shows. Everyone seems to be hate 0:15:23.062 --> 0:15:28.702 watching this week. Unless I miss something. 0:15:29.502 --> 0:15:32.302 You don't speak French speak it till you make it. 0:15:32.662 --> 0:15:36.822 I am tre xcta to be here. The PXO really 0:15:38.222 --> 0:15:41.182 excido does not mean excited, it means horny. 0:15:41.502 --> 0:15:41.742 I mean. 0:15:41.782 --> 0:15:44.582 Nominations came out today and the TV shows that got 0:15:44.582 --> 0:15:49.502 more than twenty nominations each. The big winners were White Lotus, Severance, 0:15:49.582 --> 0:15:54.742 The Studio, The Penguin, and The Bear. Sounds Like a 0:15:54.782 --> 0:15:58.822 Day at the Zoo also recognized The Pit, the Diplomat, 0:15:58.862 --> 0:16:02.182 Slow Horses, the last of US hacks and only murders 0:16:02.182 --> 0:16:05.542 in the building. But one category that is not included 0:16:05.862 --> 0:16:08.062 in the Emmy Awards, which will be happening in a 0:16:08.062 --> 0:16:12.582 few weeks, is most hate Watched Show. I want to 0:16:12.582 --> 0:16:15.182 talk about hate watching because it's been a big week 0:16:15.262 --> 0:16:19.702 for hate watching. The final of Love Island USA happened, 0:16:20.182 --> 0:16:22.982 and all the commentary I've read about that is people 0:16:23.022 --> 0:16:25.622 talking about how they just want to be released from 0:16:25.702 --> 0:16:28.742 this nightmare that they've been trapped in for the six 0:16:28.782 --> 0:16:30.182 weeks that that show has been on. 0:16:30.262 --> 0:16:32.102 I think that's how people feel about Married at First 0:16:32.142 --> 0:16:34.822 Sight too. It gets this choke hold and this investment 0:16:34.942 --> 0:16:37.462 that it's like, it's like the sunk cost fallacy in 0:16:37.502 --> 0:16:42.182 that I've invested twelve weeks. I must persevere for the 0:16:42.222 --> 0:16:45.102 next four even though this show makes me angry. 0:16:45.582 --> 0:16:47.622 Now I'm going to I'm packing a minute the psychology 0:16:47.622 --> 0:16:50.182 of hate watching, because there's actually six different reasons why 0:16:50.222 --> 0:16:52.622 we do it. But the other thing that happened this 0:16:52.662 --> 0:16:55.982 week is a new episode Evan, just like that dropped. 0:16:56.582 --> 0:16:58.622 It was a whole thing. There was karaoke. There was 0:16:58.622 --> 0:17:01.542 also a lot of conversation about how the writers killed 0:17:01.622 --> 0:17:05.422 one main character's father twice and just forgot. 0:17:05.622 --> 0:17:09.101 Every episode of that show feels to me like a 0:17:09.262 --> 0:17:13.062 whole day, like eight hours if they do feel very 0:17:13.142 --> 0:17:14.061 very long and look. 0:17:14.061 --> 0:17:17.902 As someone who has done scriptwriting, I am currently on 0:17:18.141 --> 0:17:23.221 like my twenty eighth draft, how it gets through of 0:17:23.262 --> 0:17:26.261 one episode of you never do more drafts, How it 0:17:26.302 --> 0:17:30.702 gets through all those that you kill someone's dad twice, not. 0:17:30.621 --> 0:17:33.581 Remembering I was reading actually a think piece about and 0:17:33.702 --> 0:17:36.981 just like that this week that really summed it up. 0:17:37.022 --> 0:17:39.502 It said, there is comfort in knowing that I'm not 0:17:39.581 --> 0:17:41.981 alone in terms of why this person hate watches it. 0:17:42.581 --> 0:17:44.702 I don't know anyone who is watching this thing earnestly. 0:17:44.782 --> 0:17:47.141 We're all in the same sinking shit, mourning what this 0:17:47.222 --> 0:17:49.982 show could have been, but gripped by the slow motion. 0:17:49.861 --> 0:17:51.542 Spectacle all Jack and Rose. 0:17:52.462 --> 0:17:55.502 We're still hoping that Carrie and company will jump onto 0:17:55.542 --> 0:17:59.101 a life boat. For now, she's listlessly stumbling around a 0:17:59.141 --> 0:18:02.222 mansion in the ugliest heart you've ever seen. I hate it. 0:18:02.502 --> 0:18:05.621 I'll watch one hundred episodes of it. I want to 0:18:05.661 --> 0:18:09.422 ask you, guys, which shows you hate watched in your time? 0:18:09.702 --> 0:18:11.262 And there's also a list of some of the most 0:18:11.262 --> 0:18:12.222 hate watch shows. 0:18:12.581 --> 0:18:15.182 My hate watch show is one of the most hate 0:18:15.182 --> 0:18:17.661 watch shows. Which is selling Sunset? Like, I know that 0:18:17.661 --> 0:18:18.861 they're all deeply irritated. 0:18:19.341 --> 0:18:21.061 How have we never bonded over this? 0:18:21.182 --> 0:18:21.902 Do you watch it too? 0:18:22.101 --> 0:18:22.942 I love? 0:18:25.061 --> 0:18:28.381 I want to interrupt you there, because we need to 0:18:28.381 --> 0:18:31.782 make a distinction between a guilty pleasure show and a 0:18:31.821 --> 0:18:34.381 hate watch Okay, okay, because I think maybe a guilty 0:18:34.422 --> 0:18:37.581 pleasure show might be selling Sunset, certainly for you Amelia, 0:18:37.581 --> 0:18:41.461 I don't know about you, Jesse. So hate watches don't 0:18:41.581 --> 0:18:44.621 like the show, but they enjoy the act of disliking. 0:18:44.702 --> 0:18:46.102 Yeah, this is actually different. 0:18:46.821 --> 0:18:50.821 Guilty pleasure watches do like the show but feel uneasy 0:18:50.821 --> 0:18:53.861 admitting it, yes, because they think it's a bit embarrassed. 0:18:54.661 --> 0:18:57.061 Can I posit a case study here, which isn't just 0:18:57.141 --> 0:19:00.501 like that I love sex and the city I hate 0:19:00.621 --> 0:19:02.941 and just like that, I will watch on just like 0:19:03.022 --> 0:19:05.461 that for as many seasons as they make it. 0:19:06.222 --> 0:19:10.302 And to the streamer does it matter? Like a click 0:19:10.422 --> 0:19:11.821 is a clicker plays a play? 0:19:11.982 --> 0:19:12.222 Right? 0:19:12.861 --> 0:19:16.341 The most sort of obvious example of this is Emily 0:19:16.381 --> 0:19:19.101 in Paris. Right, that's where hate watching really became popularized, 0:19:19.101 --> 0:19:22.421 because they're like, this is the biggest show ever, like 0:19:22.702 --> 0:19:25.901 it's so big on Netflix. But also everyone universally knows this. 0:19:26.061 --> 0:19:28.982 Okay, but do we need a third category? Is Emily 0:19:29.022 --> 0:19:33.982 in Paris? Second screen watch Are people watching that actively 0:19:34.462 --> 0:19:36.862 hating it? Or are they watching an absent mind. 0:19:37.702 --> 0:19:38.502 Actively hating it? 0:19:38.661 --> 0:19:42.262 Okay, so my sister Claire is she almost exclusively hate 0:19:42.262 --> 0:19:43.861 watches like, I don't even know if she knows how 0:19:43.901 --> 0:19:47.502 to authentically enjoy anything anymore, and she'll watch any show 0:19:47.502 --> 0:19:50.422 that's really bad. She's like, yes, I've watched fourteen episodes 0:19:50.462 --> 0:19:52.982 of it. She also watched The Bold Type. The more 0:19:53.022 --> 0:19:55.422 irritating it got, the more into it she got. 0:19:55.422 --> 0:19:57.581 I'm sorry, the bold Type never got irritating, but we 0:19:57.621 --> 0:19:59.581 can take that up with the dot com loved it. 0:19:59.821 --> 0:20:02.101 Let's quickly name a few more of the hate watch shows, 0:20:02.101 --> 0:20:04.141 and then I'm gonna explain to you the different types 0:20:04.182 --> 0:20:07.742 of hate watching. Selling Sunset is here, Thirteen reasons why, 0:20:07.782 --> 0:20:11.181 Pretty Little Liars, Gray's Anatomy controversial. 0:20:10.661 --> 0:20:12.381 You're four out? I hate watch that for a while. 0:20:12.422 --> 0:20:14.181