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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Muma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. Welcome to Mummy are

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Speaker 2: out Loud where women come to debrief. I am Jesse Stevens,

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Speaker 2: I'm to.

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Speaker 1: Me Moore, and I'm Amelia Luster.

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Speaker 2: Now why are you Demi Moore?

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Speaker 3: Because I'm very husky today. Oh it's my only fans voice.

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Speaker 2: You sound like shit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know. I'm so sorry out that is. I

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Speaker 3: know it's really annoying to listen to someone when they

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Speaker 3: don't have much of a voice. So I'll try to

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Speaker 3: speak less than usual. But there's so much good stuff

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Speaker 3: today that I couldn't I know you I had fomo.

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Speaker 1: You're also curled your eyelashes with mscara On, and I'm

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Speaker 1: still recovering from that.

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Speaker 2: Guys, just live a little yeah out loud as we

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Speaker 2: were sitting here getting ready, I don't know why you've

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Speaker 2: felt the urge to curl your eyelashes. The outlouders aren't

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Speaker 2: looking at your eyelashes, but you did it with muscara

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Speaker 2: On and we're concerned that you're pulling them out of

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Speaker 2: the roof. And we've had an intervention.

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Speaker 3: You would be right. Sometimes I do okay, all right,

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Speaker 3: but it works better.

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Speaker 2: Here's what's on our agenda for today, Wednesday, the sixteenth

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Speaker 2: of July. Bradley John Murdoch died in custody overnight, almost

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Speaker 2: exactly twenty four years after murdering Peter Falconio in the Outback.

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Speaker 2: So why is his death so significant?

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Speaker 3: It has been a big week for hate watching. There

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Speaker 3: are two shows in particular that a lot of people

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Speaker 3: hate watching, including some of us, And we're going to

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Speaker 3: talk about the reason why so many of us are

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Speaker 3: clocking so much time in front of shows that we

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Speaker 3: objectively think are terrible.

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Speaker 1: And Jeffrey Epstein, Donald Trump and the Missing Files that

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Speaker 1: everyone wants to see. But first, in case you missed it,

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Speaker 1: Millennials are getting revenge on gen Z for making fun

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Speaker 1: of their nose show socks and their side parts and

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Speaker 1: I am so here for it. On TikTok, millennials are

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Speaker 1: talking about the gen Zed stare. This is, in particular

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Speaker 1: a workplace phenomenon where gen Z employees Greek customers or

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Speaker 1: colleagues with a vacant expression and are unable to respond

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Speaker 1: to niceties or polite conversation. So in various TikTok skits,

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Speaker 1: what happens is that users place themselves in this hypothetical situation.

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Speaker 1: They might be in a coffee shop, or they might

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Speaker 1: be in a restaurant, and they roll play the order

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Speaker 1: taking process with a gen Z employee, and you just

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Speaker 1: see this young worker stare back at them with dead eyes.

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Speaker 1: They look at you just like they saw a ghost.

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Speaker 1: Said one TikToker. It's this blank deer in the headlights stare.

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Speaker 1: And the hashtag gen zed stare has actually reached more

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Speaker 1: than four thousand posts on TikTok. There's viral videos, Jesse,

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Speaker 1: fellow millennial, Are we just getting jed Z back for

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Speaker 1: coining the idea of the millennial pause?

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Speaker 2: Yes, and no, there is something about gen Z that

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Speaker 2: I look at and go, it's some of what we're

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Speaker 2: critiquing them for, the inevitable sort of immaturity of being

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Speaker 2: twenty Like, is that how we all behave in not?

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Speaker 1: When you worked at Jumper Juice, I'm sure you always

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Speaker 1: bought your a game post.

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Speaker 3: Juice, No American. I think it's because they don't know

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Speaker 3: how to do listening face when you have communicated your

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Speaker 3: whole life via text message you don't know how to

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Speaker 3: do active listening face.

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Speaker 2: The thing about gen Zed is that they are a

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Speaker 2: generation who has had an entirely different experience to any

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Speaker 2: generation before them for two reasons. The first is the

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Speaker 2: text messaging, the second is the pandemic. So they lost

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Speaker 2: two years of what is being called kind of soft skills.

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Speaker 2: And there was an incredible article in Fortune about the

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Speaker 2: gen Z presence in workplaces and how soft skills that

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Speaker 2: managers and bosses took for granted and thought people just

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Speaker 2: had and now having to become really explicitly trained. And

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Speaker 2: I do think that there's a bit of cruelty to

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Speaker 2: the mocking of gen Z because it's not their fault.

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Speaker 2: Like at a formative age of adolescence, this demographic were

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Speaker 2: in their homes, they said bye to their friends one day,

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Speaker 2: and for some of them, they didn't see them for months,

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Speaker 2: potentially even years.

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Speaker 1: They were doing zoom. But Jesse the millennial poor, which

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Speaker 1: we should explain, is the phenomenon whereby when millennials are

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Speaker 1: recording a social media video, they kind of pause at

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Speaker 1: the side of the video to check that it's recording

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Speaker 1: and the proceed which of course we all do. That's

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Speaker 1: not our fault either. We didn't grow up with TikTok,

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Speaker 1: and we're still being lamp basted for what we do now.

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Speaker 3: There are invisible socks. Well, no one even talks about

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Speaker 3: gen X.

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Speaker 2: No, you're completely irrelevant Millennials. I feel like I've really

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Speaker 2: copped this on the chin. I think that we're pretty

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Speaker 2: good at being made fun of. What's been telling about

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Speaker 2: this is that gen Z don't like it. They're going, well,

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Speaker 2: I don't owe you a smile, And it's a generations

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Speaker 2: emotional labor. Yes, that's been raised on authenticity and not

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Speaker 2: just owing someone pleasantries, which is funny because welcome to

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Speaker 2: customer service, welcome to any job where you engage with

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Speaker 2: the public. And what this Fortune article was saying is

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Speaker 2: that there are all these misunderstandings, complaints from customers, they're

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Speaker 2: being perceived as rude. But this could be kind of,

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Speaker 2: I guess, like a cultural turning point where this fakery

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Speaker 2: that millennials and gen X have engaged in where we're

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Speaker 2: kind of over the top nice or whatever, maybe now

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Speaker 2: we're just more straightforward and when we're not nice, if

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Speaker 2: we don't feel like it.

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Speaker 3: It reminds me of you know, third children, have to

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Speaker 3: raise themselves. And I remember with my third child, I

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Speaker 3: realized that I this is when landlines were still around.

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Speaker 3: I realized I'd forgotten how to tell him to end

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Speaker 3: a phone conversation and he would just finish speaking in.

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Speaker 1: A so he basically was like in any movie or

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Speaker 1: TV show, they never say goodbye. No, he was living that.

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Speaker 3: Maybe this is the problem. They just haven't been taught

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Speaker 3: that you have to have active listening face overnight.

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Speaker 2: Bradley John Murdoch died at the age of sixty seven,

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Speaker 2: twenty four years after murdering a man named Peter Falconio.

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Speaker 2: You've probably seen the headlines today. There's a lot of names,

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Speaker 2: but I want to go back a few steps and

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Speaker 2: explain what happened and why his death is so significant.

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Speaker 2: So it's July two thousand and one, and it's almost

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Speaker 2: exactly twenty four years to the day. British backpackers Peter

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Speaker 2: Falconio he was twenty eight at the time, and Joanne

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Speaker 2: Lee's she was twenty seven. They were boyfriend and girlfriend

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Speaker 2: were road tripping around Australia and their parents were really

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Speaker 2: anxious about this leg of their trip. They'd gone to

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Speaker 2: a few places before and they were anxious because the

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Speaker 2: Ivan Malatt backpacker murders had happened, and also it was

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Speaker 2: in the wake of the Port Arthur massacre. And so

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Speaker 2: they said to their parents were going to be really careful.

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Speaker 2: It's fine.

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Speaker 3: And they're a little bit older than your average backpacker.

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Speaker 3: They weren't in their early twenties or late teens. They were,

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Speaker 3: you know, almost thirty.

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Speaker 2: And they were seasoned travelers. And so I was a

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Speaker 2: travel agent. Yeah, that's right. She actually worked at the

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Speaker 2: Dimmick's store on George Street, which is literally about five

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Speaker 2: minutes down the road, in order to save this trip.

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Speaker 2: And on July fourteen, they reached Alice Springs and then

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Speaker 2: they continued along the Stuart Highway towards the Devil's Marbles

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Speaker 2: and as they passed this tiny town called Barrow Creek,

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Speaker 2: they noticed headlights behind them, and then the driver came

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Speaker 2: up beside them and Jess and basically said, there's sparks

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Speaker 2: coming out of your car, and so they exited the car.

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Speaker 2: Peter Falconio went behind the car with the man who

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Speaker 2: would be Bradley John Murdock, and Joanne Lee's was in

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Speaker 2: the driver's seat because she was revving the engine to

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Speaker 2: see what was happening, and at that point she had

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Speaker 2: a bang, and she wondered if it was to do

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Speaker 2: with the car. It was actually a gunshot to Peter Falconio.

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Speaker 2: And then Murdoch walked up the side, held a gun

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Speaker 2: to her head and essentially tied her hands used from

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Speaker 2: asking tape and put her in the tray of his truck.

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Speaker 2: And then I'd forgotten all of the yeah, and then

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Speaker 2: he Murdoch walked off to go and do something. She

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Speaker 2: heard banging, and she had been fighting and fighting so

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Speaker 2: that he couldn't put the cable ties around her ankles,

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Speaker 2: and this meant that when he moved, she could kind

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Speaker 2: of push her way off the tray and she ran

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Speaker 2: and she hid behind bushes for five hours while she

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Speaker 2: was hunted by who was looking for her with a torch.

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Speaker 2: And then eventually there was like a road train that

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Speaker 2: came past and she signaled and was rescued and then

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Speaker 2: went to police. The investigation then became infamous because Lee's

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Speaker 2: whose boyfriend had been murdered and she'd been attacked, actually

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Speaker 2: came under suspicion. Do you remember this part of it?

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Speaker 3: Because she didn't cry enough.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So eleven days after this absolute tragedy, there was

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Speaker 2: a press conference and she turned up and she had

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Speaker 2: a T shirt on that said cheeky monkey, and people

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Speaker 2: saw that as incredibly insensitive.

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Speaker 3: Which is a bar and Barren Bay that they'd probably

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Speaker 3: traveled to.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And you can see how in the trauma of

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Speaker 2: what had occurred, you wouldn't even think about what was

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Speaker 2: on your singlet. There was what she was wearing. There

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Speaker 2: was the way she communicated with the media, which people

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Speaker 2: saw as a bit stand office. She only wanted a

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Speaker 2: few questions, and she didn't cry on cue.

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Speaker 3: She must have been in such deep shock.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The other thing here is parallel to Linda Chamberlain and

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Speaker 1: the baby Azaria incident, also in the Outback. But what

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Speaker 1: is interesting about both cases is that there's one woman

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Speaker 1: who was the sole witness to the crime. And it's

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Speaker 1: interesting that that's part of why I guess they get

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Speaker 1: so undercut.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and also with women, I think that we expect

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Speaker 2: a level of an emotional response that we might not

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Speaker 2: from a man. We expect the tears, And as someone

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Speaker 2: who struggles to cry, I've always found these stories really

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Speaker 2: interesting because people behave in incredibly unusual ways and unexpected

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Speaker 2: ways in the face of tragedy, and that's what you

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Speaker 2: learned from a lot of these stories. And what eventually

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Speaker 2: happened was that the suspicion around her got so great

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Speaker 2: that the police took her in for questioning. They interrogated

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Speaker 2: her for three and a half hours, which you know,

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Speaker 2: she found incredibly traumatizing, and eventually she was released without charge.

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Speaker 2: Then a few years later there's a tip off from

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Speaker 2: a man who said he knows who did it. Murdoch's

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Speaker 2: DNA matched the DNA that was on Joanne Lee's clothes

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Speaker 2: that she was wearing.

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Speaker 1: And apparently, by the way that DNA, it was one

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty quadrillion times more likely to have come

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Speaker 1: from Murdock than anyone else. Wow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because they always say the likelihood of it, and

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Speaker 2: so they tested that. They then found Murdoch. He was arrested, charged, sentenced,

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Speaker 2: but he's always denied any involvement. The DNA is the point.

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Speaker 2: And also his gun had Joanne Lees's hair tie around.

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Speaker 1: It, and he also had some of her blood on

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Speaker 1: his T shirt, yes, which he said he picked up

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Speaker 1: because they were at the same lunch spot.

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Speaker 2: Earlier that day exactly.

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Speaker 1: But that said, I mean yes, so obviously all the

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Speaker 1: evidence was really overwhelming, which is why he was convicted.

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Speaker 1: But inevitably in these cases online slew some particular like

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Speaker 1: to pick at holes, and there were unanswered questions about it,

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Speaker 1: for instance, the motive for the crimes. This guy was

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Speaker 1: a low level marijuana dealer by all accounts, and this

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Speaker 1: really took his crime to the next level, and there

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Speaker 1: was no apparent motive for it. I'm going to ask.

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Speaker 3: About what his I have no memory of what his

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Speaker 3: history had been.

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Speaker 1: He was a low level marijuana dealer, but.

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Speaker 3: Just like a loner. Had he been married, he was

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Speaker 3: a loner.

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Speaker 1: The only person to stand by him during the trial,

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Speaker 1: which is interesting, was his girlfriend. Her name was Jen Pittman.

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Speaker 1: Otherwise all of his former friends. The tip off actually

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Speaker 1: came from one of his former friends. You know how

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Speaker 1: sometimes when a serial killer, or when a particularly horrific

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Speaker 1: murderer is found, the neighbors there's this cliche of the

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Speaker 1: neighbors saying he was quiet, he catched himself. Not so

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Speaker 1: with Murdoch. He was a no one racist and noa misogynist.

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Speaker 1: He had beaten women before all of his friends disavowed

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Speaker 1: him his former friends, so there was a sense that

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Speaker 1: this was not necessarily surprising, but it was a big

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Speaker 1: step up in terms of his past behavior of past crime.

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Speaker 2: He wasn't a malat where you look at it that

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Speaker 2: there's a pattern of behavior. But Murdoch denied that he

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Speaker 2: had done this. And so the reason why it is

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Speaker 2: so significant that he died this week is that he

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Speaker 2: never told the family where Falconio's body.

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Speaker 1: Is, and they never found the body.

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Speaker 2: And they've never found the body.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the outback is a very good place. But

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Speaker 3: if he never admitted it, he never said what his

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Speaker 3: motive was. No, no, so we never knew.

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Speaker 2: No exactly right. And there is laws in some Australian states.

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Speaker 2: New South Wales is one of them. It's called a

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Speaker 2: nobody no parole law. So he was going to be

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Speaker 2: eligible for parole I think in about twenty thirty two

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Speaker 2: or something like that. He was never going to be

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Speaker 2: allowed to do that unless he told authorities and the

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Speaker 2: family where the body is. Because this is something when

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Speaker 2: I hosted true crime conversations, this came up a lot,

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Speaker 2: which is that it is the only power, and it's

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Speaker 2: often men like Murdock hold over a victim and the

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Speaker 2: victim's family.

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Speaker 1: And I think part of the problem is meou references before,

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Speaker 1: but the vastness of the outbacks so he What we

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Speaker 1: know is that he drove eighteen hours after this on

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Speaker 1: unsealed roads. It was a total of eighteen hundred kilometers,

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Speaker 1: So no wonder they couldn't find the body because this

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Speaker 1: is obviously a huge area. And I think that's part

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Speaker 1: of why this story fascinated not just Australians but also

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Speaker 1: people overseas, because it taps into all these fears that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people around the world feel about the

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Speaker 1: vastness of Australia and in particular the sort of severity

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Speaker 1: of the outback is a landscape. We've seen how dangerous

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Speaker 1: the outback is. Just last week we got another reminder

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Speaker 1: when that German backpacker Carolina Wilger was found after eleven days.

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Speaker 1: She lost twelve kilograms stranded out there in the outback.

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Speaker 2: There are so many Australian books set there because the

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Speaker 2: fear of even the outback with no one in it

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Speaker 2: is terrifying.

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Speaker 1: And reading about this I came across an interesting fact,

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Speaker 1: which is, you know the movie Wolf Creek that was

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Speaker 1: due to come out during the trial because it was

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Speaker 1: an extremely long murder trial, one of the longest urder

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Speaker 1: trials ever in Australia, and the judge at the time

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Speaker 1: actually delay the Australian release of this horror movie Wolf

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Speaker 1: Creek because he was worried that the plot synopsis was

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Speaker 1: very similar. It's that classic sort of nightmarish trope of

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Speaker 1: a crazed killer and the outback stalking people, and it

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Speaker 1: just shows that that's really deeply embedded in us, like

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Speaker 1: that's something that we have a fear of the outback

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Speaker 1: for good reason. It's a very harsh place.

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Speaker 2: And for anyone who has traveled to the outback in

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Speaker 2: Australia and driven, you will know that seeing headlights behind

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Speaker 2: you is actually really rare, Like you can drive for

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Speaker 2: hours for days and not see anyone. So that fact

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Speaker 2: of even seeing someone and then realizing the vulnerability of

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Speaker 2: that moment of having someone there that you would have

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Speaker 2: almost no choice, which is also I suppose with Malat

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Speaker 2: why the mythology of that exists. It's just such a

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Speaker 2: terrifying situation. And imagine being Lee's and experiencing that and

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Speaker 2: then feeling the weight of all the speculation that comes

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Speaker 2: at you. But I think more than anything, it's just

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Speaker 2: a really sad day because for that family, hope feels lost,

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Speaker 2: hope that they can bury and kind of laid to

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Speaker 2: rest their son who will forever be twenty eight that

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Speaker 2: dies with Murdock in.

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Speaker 3: A moment the two shows. Everyone seems to be hate

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Speaker 3: watching this week. Unless I miss something.

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Speaker 1: You don't speak French speak it till you make it.

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Speaker 2: I am tre xcta to be here. The PXO really

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Speaker 2: excido does not mean excited, it means horny.

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Speaker 1: I mean.

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Speaker 3: Nominations came out today and the TV shows that got

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Speaker 3: more than twenty nominations each. The big winners were White Lotus, Severance,

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Speaker 3: The Studio, The Penguin, and The Bear. Sounds Like a

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Speaker 3: Day at the Zoo also recognized The Pit, the Diplomat,

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Speaker 3: Slow Horses, the last of US hacks and only murders

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Speaker 3: in the building. But one category that is not included

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Speaker 3: in the Emmy Awards, which will be happening in a

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Speaker 3: few weeks, is most hate Watched Show. I want to

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Speaker 3: talk about hate watching because it's been a big week

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Speaker 3: for hate watching. The final of Love Island USA happened,

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Speaker 3: and all the commentary I've read about that is people

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Speaker 3: talking about how they just want to be released from

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Speaker 3: this nightmare that they've been trapped in for the six

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Speaker 3: weeks that that show has been on.

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Speaker 2: I think that's how people feel about Married at First

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Speaker 2: Sight too. It gets this choke hold and this investment

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Speaker 2: that it's like, it's like the sunk cost fallacy in

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Speaker 2: that I've invested twelve weeks. I must persevere for the

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Speaker 2: next four even though this show makes me angry.

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Speaker 3: Now I'm going to I'm packing a minute the psychology

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Speaker 3: of hate watching, because there's actually six different reasons why

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Speaker 3: we do it. But the other thing that happened this

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Speaker 3: week is a new episode Evan, just like that dropped.

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Speaker 3: It was a whole thing. There was karaoke. There was

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Speaker 3: also a lot of conversation about how the writers killed

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Speaker 3: one main character's father twice and just forgot.

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Speaker 1: Every episode of that show feels to me like a

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Speaker 1: whole day, like eight hours if they do feel very

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Speaker 1: very long and look.

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Speaker 2: As someone who has done scriptwriting, I am currently on

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Speaker 2: like my twenty eighth draft, how it gets through of

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Speaker 2: one episode of you never do more drafts, How it

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Speaker 2: gets through all those that you kill someone's dad twice, not.

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Speaker 3: Remembering I was reading actually a think piece about and

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Speaker 3: just like that this week that really summed it up.

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Speaker 3: It said, there is comfort in knowing that I'm not

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Speaker 3: alone in terms of why this person hate watches it.

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Speaker 3: I don't know anyone who is watching this thing earnestly.

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Speaker 3: We're all in the same sinking shit, mourning what this

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Speaker 3: show could have been, but gripped by the slow motion.

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Speaker 1: Spectacle all Jack and Rose.

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Speaker 3: We're still hoping that Carrie and company will jump onto

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Speaker 3: a life boat. For now, she's listlessly stumbling around a

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Speaker 3: mansion in the ugliest heart you've ever seen. I hate it.

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Speaker 3: I'll watch one hundred episodes of it. I want to

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Speaker 3: ask you, guys, which shows you hate watched in your time?

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Speaker 3: And there's also a list of some of the most

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Speaker 3: hate watch shows.

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Speaker 2: My hate watch show is one of the most hate

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Speaker 2: watch shows. Which is selling Sunset? Like, I know that

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Speaker 2: they're all deeply irritated.

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Speaker 1: How have we never bonded over this?

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Speaker 2: Do you watch it too?

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Speaker 1: I love?

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Speaker 3: I want to interrupt you there, because we need to

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Speaker 3: make a distinction between a guilty pleasure show and a

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Speaker 3: hate watch Okay, okay, because I think maybe a guilty

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Speaker 3: pleasure show might be selling Sunset, certainly for you Amelia,

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Speaker 3: I don't know about you, Jesse. So hate watches don't

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Speaker 3: like the show, but they enjoy the act of disliking.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is actually different.

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Speaker 3: Guilty pleasure watches do like the show but feel uneasy

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Speaker 3: admitting it, yes, because they think it's a bit embarrassed.

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Speaker 1: Can I posit a case study here, which isn't just

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Speaker 1: like that I love sex and the city I hate

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Speaker 1: and just like that, I will watch on just like

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Speaker 1: that for as many seasons as they make it.

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Speaker 2: And to the streamer does it matter? Like a click

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Speaker 2: is a clicker plays a play?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: The most sort of obvious example of this is Emily

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Speaker 2: in Paris. Right, that's where hate watching really became popularized,

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00:19:19,101 --> 00:19:22,421
Speaker 2: because they're like, this is the biggest show ever, like

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Speaker 2: it's so big on Netflix. But also everyone universally knows this.

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Speaker 1: Okay, but do we need a third category? Is Emily

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Speaker 1: in Paris? Second screen watch Are people watching that actively

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Speaker 1: hating it? Or are they watching an absent mind.

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Speaker 3: Actively hating it?

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Speaker 2: Okay, so my sister Claire is she almost exclusively hate

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Speaker 2: watches like, I don't even know if she knows how

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Speaker 2: to authentically enjoy anything anymore, and she'll watch any show

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Speaker 2: that's really bad. She's like, yes, I've watched fourteen episodes

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Speaker 2: of it. She also watched The Bold Type. The more

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Speaker 2: irritating it got, the more into it she got.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, the bold Type never got irritating, but we

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Speaker 1: can take that up with the dot com loved it.

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Speaker 3: Let's quickly name a few more of the hate watch shows,

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Speaker 3: and then I'm gonna explain to you the different types

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Speaker 3: of hate watching. Selling Sunset is here, Thirteen reasons why,

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Speaker 3: Pretty Little Liars, Gray's Anatomy controversial.

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Speaker 2: You're four out? I hate watch that for a while.

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00:20:12,422 --> 00:20:14,181
Speaker 3: The Idol remember the idol that was?

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00:20:15,462 --> 00:20:16,981
Speaker 1: That's a classic hate watch.

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00:20:17,061 --> 00:20:19,782
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Real Housewives franchise, although for some people that's

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00:20:19,782 --> 00:20:22,462
Speaker 3: a guilty pleasure, for others it's a hate watch. Keeping

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00:20:22,502 --> 00:20:25,302
Speaker 3: up with the Kardashians and all forms of Kardashian show.

406
00:20:25,982 --> 00:20:28,982
Speaker 3: The number of reasons why. The first reason people hate

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00:20:28,982 --> 00:20:32,982
Speaker 3: watch social and community bonding. Oh yes, so Amelia and

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00:20:33,061 --> 00:20:34,821
Speaker 3: I are on all the Reddit threads for and just

409
00:20:34,901 --> 00:20:38,181
Speaker 3: like that, and it's full of people who love that show.

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00:20:38,742 --> 00:20:41,221
Speaker 3: Love the world of that show and the characters, but

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Speaker 3: are so upset about what it's become. So I think,

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Speaker 3: and you feel like you're part of something. Like every

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Speaker 3: Friday when the episode drops, Amelia and I run to

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Speaker 3: Reddit to commune without people.

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Speaker 2: What hate watching does that like watching doesn't is it's

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Speaker 2: so funny. It's like the commentary is actually funny.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's so funny. I was reading one of my

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Speaker 1: and just like that hate Watch throats the other day

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00:21:04,222 --> 00:21:06,861
Speaker 1: at the hairdresser, I started cackling so much. At the

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00:21:06,821 --> 00:21:08,782
Speaker 1: hairdresser I had to tell me to just stop laughing

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00:21:08,861 --> 00:21:10,302
Speaker 1: because she was my hair wrong.

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00:21:10,502 --> 00:21:14,022
Speaker 2: You feel so seen. Like the commentary around Severance, which

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00:21:14,061 --> 00:21:17,061
Speaker 2: I loved, was great, but it wasn't funny. I didn't

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Speaker 2: feel as much a part of the community.

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Speaker 3: People are very invested and they have very strong feelings. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Like I read one that made me laugh out loud

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00:21:24,381 --> 00:21:26,861
Speaker 3: today that I sent Amelia that was a picture of

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00:21:26,942 --> 00:21:29,462
Speaker 3: Miranda and Steve and it said I feel very hurt

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00:21:29,502 --> 00:21:34,341
Speaker 3: and upset that Miranda broke up with Still Okay, So

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Speaker 3: I'm going to jump to another one, which is nostalgia

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00:21:37,782 --> 00:21:40,861
Speaker 3: and self reflection. And this is also a bit of

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Speaker 3: a reason for us or for me watching, and just

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Speaker 3: like that, we stick with shows that we once enjoyed

434
00:21:46,061 --> 00:21:49,101
Speaker 3: because they're tied to comfort and rituals and memories, even

435
00:21:49,141 --> 00:21:51,502
Speaker 3: if they've gone off the rails. Yes, yes, so it's

436
00:21:51,502 --> 00:21:53,982
Speaker 3: like comfort food but also horror.

437
00:21:54,061 --> 00:21:56,381
Speaker 1: Do you know what I do is and this is

438
00:21:56,422 --> 00:21:59,621
Speaker 1: sick and depraved, But sometimes I watch and just like that,

439
00:21:59,782 --> 00:22:01,901
Speaker 1: and then I chase it with a Sex and the

440
00:22:01,942 --> 00:22:03,902
Speaker 1: City season six episode.

441
00:22:04,742 --> 00:22:09,021
Speaker 3: Feeds you struggle. There's a reason because it ends you

442
00:22:09,022 --> 00:22:11,701
Speaker 3: get to the love episode and then it feeds you

443
00:22:11,702 --> 00:22:15,061
Speaker 3: you might like to watch next. Yeah, Sex and the City. Yeah, which,

444
00:22:15,702 --> 00:22:18,941
Speaker 3: you're right, it's almost like too cruel. The comparison. Another

445
00:22:19,022 --> 00:22:23,502
Speaker 3: one is social comparison. So you know, they say comparison

446
00:22:23,581 --> 00:22:25,902
Speaker 3: is the thief of joy, but only if you're comparing

447
00:22:25,901 --> 00:22:28,861
Speaker 3: yourself to someone who's better than you. When you're watching

448
00:22:28,942 --> 00:22:30,662
Speaker 3: flawed characters or.

449
00:22:30,621 --> 00:22:33,061
Speaker 2: Annoying characters and you're like, I'm not that annoying.

450
00:22:32,782 --> 00:22:34,021
Speaker 3: You feel better about yourself?

451
00:22:34,101 --> 00:22:36,741
Speaker 1: Yes, When Carrie interrupts someone for the m time to

452
00:22:36,782 --> 00:22:39,542
Speaker 1: tell them more about her own feelings, I do feel better.

453
00:22:39,982 --> 00:22:44,061
Speaker 3: Then there's of course curiosity and shardenfreuder, which is being

454
00:22:44,101 --> 00:22:45,982
Speaker 3: happy when bad things happen to someone else.

455
00:22:46,341 --> 00:22:46,542
Speaker 2: Yeah.

456
00:22:46,621 --> 00:22:46,861
Speaker 3: Yeah.

457
00:22:46,982 --> 00:22:49,382
Speaker 1: One of the most compelling reasons I read was there

458
00:22:49,422 --> 00:22:51,981
Speaker 1: was a twenty twenty two research study done which I

459
00:22:52,061 --> 00:22:55,141
Speaker 1: just I can do this. I volunteer as tribute to

460
00:22:55,262 --> 00:22:58,262
Speaker 1: be involved in the next hate watch study. It was

461
00:22:58,302 --> 00:23:01,022
Speaker 1: called the Psychology of Hate in the European Journal of

462
00:23:01,061 --> 00:23:04,422
Speaker 1: Social Psychology, so you know, it's real. And they made

463
00:23:04,462 --> 00:23:07,302
Speaker 1: a great point. They said that we hate watch because

464
00:23:07,502 --> 00:23:11,061
Speaker 1: we experience emotions that we want to feel, and that

465
00:23:11,141 --> 00:23:14,302
Speaker 1: makes us happier. So on a Friday night, maybe I

466
00:23:14,381 --> 00:23:16,821
Speaker 1: want to wallow a bit, Maybe I want to sort

467
00:23:16,861 --> 00:23:19,861
Speaker 1: of like feel a little bit reflective about the week

468
00:23:19,942 --> 00:23:20,462
Speaker 1: that's been.

469
00:23:20,861 --> 00:23:24,101
Speaker 3: You're right about that, because another reason listed here is

470
00:23:24,341 --> 00:23:27,581
Speaker 3: the expression of negative emotions. It's a very safe way

471
00:23:27,742 --> 00:23:31,341
Speaker 3: to vent irritation and dissatisfaction. It's also very low stakes.

472
00:23:31,621 --> 00:23:33,302
Speaker 3: So there are terrible things going on in the world,

473
00:23:33,782 --> 00:23:36,142
Speaker 3: but I can obsess over the hat carries.

474
00:23:35,782 --> 00:23:39,542
Speaker 2: Wearing, and sometimes I just want to feel something. So

475
00:23:39,581 --> 00:23:41,821
Speaker 2: what people won't watch is something that they feel entirely

476
00:23:41,901 --> 00:23:45,742
Speaker 2: indifferent towards, but loving and hating like there is something great.

477
00:23:45,782 --> 00:23:49,702
Speaker 2: You know how nothing bonds people more than an irritating coworker,

478
00:23:50,061 --> 00:23:53,581
Speaker 2: and it like brings everyone together and there's a real

479
00:23:53,621 --> 00:23:57,701
Speaker 2: sense of camaraderie. That's me and yeah, exactly. The reason

480
00:23:57,742 --> 00:24:00,741
Speaker 2: that solitary confinement is torture is because you have no

481
00:24:00,742 --> 00:24:03,182
Speaker 2: one to confirm your own reality with. And I think

482
00:24:03,222 --> 00:24:06,821
Speaker 2: hate watching is the equivalent of like turning to people

483
00:24:06,821 --> 00:24:09,221
Speaker 2: either side and being like, can we just confirm that

484
00:24:09,302 --> 00:24:13,741
Speaker 2: this reality? And it makes us feel totally sane. My

485
00:24:14,022 --> 00:24:18,981
Speaker 2: worry is that is it just normalizing meanness, like, because

486
00:24:19,061 --> 00:24:23,341
Speaker 2: the snark which inevitably comes from this does start to

487
00:24:23,422 --> 00:24:27,421
Speaker 2: kind of infiltrate, Like you hate watch someone on social media,

488
00:24:27,581 --> 00:24:31,342
Speaker 2: you leave a comment, you set up a thread somewhere, you.

489
00:24:31,302 --> 00:24:33,502
Speaker 3: Do feel a bit dirty at the end. Remember when

490
00:24:33,542 --> 00:24:36,821
Speaker 3: you set up a Facebook group maths loles, Yes to

491
00:24:37,381 --> 00:24:40,742
Speaker 3: loll about maths, but it's sort of deteriorated, and you

492
00:24:40,821 --> 00:24:41,981
Speaker 3: ended up having to go quite hard.

493
00:24:41,982 --> 00:24:42,982
Speaker 1: Did it deteriorate?

494
00:24:43,022 --> 00:24:45,182
Speaker 2: Because everyone? I was like, guys, there are rules. We're

495
00:24:45,222 --> 00:24:47,782
Speaker 2: not being mean about the people. We're not calling someone ugly.

496
00:24:47,821 --> 00:24:48,581
Speaker 3: That's not fun.

497
00:24:48,621 --> 00:24:50,621
Speaker 2: It's not fun to call someone ugly. What we're doing

498
00:24:50,942 --> 00:24:54,382
Speaker 2: is we are making fun of the concept. And people

499
00:24:54,462 --> 00:24:56,821
Speaker 2: couldn't they were like putting in the gossip and I

500
00:24:56,861 --> 00:24:58,461
Speaker 2: was like, less gossip, more lolls.

501
00:24:58,581 --> 00:24:58,782
Speaker 1: Yeah.

502
00:24:58,821 --> 00:25:02,421
Speaker 3: I think that's another important distinction between just being a

503
00:25:02,422 --> 00:25:06,901
Speaker 3: c word and hate watching something. You're almost incensed that

504
00:25:06,982 --> 00:25:10,341
Speaker 3: it had so much potential and isn't better. So another

505
00:25:10,381 --> 00:25:14,542
Speaker 3: important criteria is that it has to have ambition. It's

506
00:25:14,581 --> 00:25:17,101
Speaker 3: not fun to hate watch something that's just sort of

507
00:25:17,182 --> 00:25:20,901
Speaker 3: low budget and nouinely crap. It's got to be trying,

508
00:25:20,942 --> 00:25:22,781
Speaker 3: which is almost a bit sad, but it's also got

509
00:25:22,821 --> 00:25:24,222
Speaker 3: to have high production values.

510
00:25:24,341 --> 00:25:26,141
Speaker 2: But I would say, and I think that this speaks

511
00:25:26,141 --> 00:25:28,782
Speaker 2: to one of your points about like deep human emotion

512
00:25:28,901 --> 00:25:32,261
Speaker 2: and also community, is that this is not a new phenomenon.

513
00:25:32,462 --> 00:25:35,782
Speaker 2: Like I suppose hate watching has probably grown since it

514
00:25:35,901 --> 00:25:39,382
Speaker 2: is bizarre that we could watch anything ever created and

515
00:25:39,661 --> 00:25:40,581
Speaker 2: we choose to watch something.

516
00:25:41,022 --> 00:25:42,701
Speaker 3: We are living in the golden era of TV, right.

517
00:25:42,742 --> 00:25:45,502
Speaker 3: The Emmys have shown there's never been more shows, never

518
00:25:45,542 --> 00:25:48,061
Speaker 3: been better shows. So that's why it was interesting to

519
00:25:48,061 --> 00:25:50,861
Speaker 3: look at the psychological reasons, because why do we choose

520
00:25:50,861 --> 00:25:55,181
Speaker 3: to spend hours and hours of our one precious life. Yeah,

521
00:25:55,222 --> 00:25:56,421
Speaker 3: watching things that annoy us.

522
00:25:56,502 --> 00:25:58,861
Speaker 1: But I think it is a new phenomenon. Jesse It

523
00:25:58,901 --> 00:26:01,581
Speaker 1: turns out that the idea dates back to two thousand

524
00:26:01,621 --> 00:26:05,141
Speaker 1: and eight, which is relatively recently, and it coincides with

525
00:26:05,182 --> 00:26:07,621
Speaker 1: the rise of streaming services and the idea that you

526
00:26:07,661 --> 00:26:10,741
Speaker 1: can choose whatever you want to watch. Now, my question

527
00:26:10,861 --> 00:26:13,061
Speaker 1: is why, as you say, when we can choose what

528
00:26:13,101 --> 00:26:16,662
Speaker 1: we want to watch, why are we moving towards things

529
00:26:16,661 --> 00:26:17,181
Speaker 1: we don't like.

530
00:26:17,302 --> 00:26:19,542
Speaker 2: I think that it's cathartic, and I keep thinking. My

531
00:26:19,621 --> 00:26:21,461
Speaker 2: mum always says that her like her memory of her

532
00:26:21,542 --> 00:26:24,462
Speaker 2: dad is standing in the kitchen putting on this radio

533
00:26:24,462 --> 00:26:27,182
Speaker 2: station he hated because they were super conservative and he

534
00:26:27,222 --> 00:26:29,182
Speaker 2: was the opposite politically. He'd put it on and yell

535
00:26:29,222 --> 00:26:31,662
Speaker 2: at it all day. That was his like. He didn't

536
00:26:31,702 --> 00:26:33,661
Speaker 2: lose it in his family because he was too busy

537
00:26:33,702 --> 00:26:36,381
Speaker 2: losing it at the guy on the radio. So I

538
00:26:36,422 --> 00:26:38,302
Speaker 2: think that the idea that we might tune in to

539
00:26:38,502 --> 00:26:40,982
Speaker 2: things that aggravate.

540
00:26:40,742 --> 00:26:43,022
Speaker 3: Us is I was really push our buttons.

541
00:26:43,022 --> 00:26:45,861
Speaker 2: The push our buttons, like those things in our brain

542
00:26:45,901 --> 00:26:47,902
Speaker 2: are very very close, and I think there's something relieving

543
00:26:47,942 --> 00:26:48,341
Speaker 2: about it.

544
00:26:48,462 --> 00:26:51,661
Speaker 1: Maya, I've never asked you this, why do you hate watching?

545
00:26:51,861 --> 00:26:52,382
Speaker 1: Just like that?

546
00:26:52,702 --> 00:26:54,181
Speaker 3: I was just thinking about it. I think for me,

547
00:26:54,381 --> 00:26:56,462
Speaker 3: I was so glad that when I started looking into

548
00:26:56,462 --> 00:27:00,021
Speaker 3: these reasons. For me, it's nostalgia and self reflection. So

549
00:27:00,462 --> 00:27:03,621
Speaker 3: the reason we all say I can't believe what they've

550
00:27:03,661 --> 00:27:06,381
Speaker 3: done to this show, I can't believe these characters, but

551
00:27:06,422 --> 00:27:08,141
Speaker 3: I will still go back again and again and again

552
00:27:08,222 --> 00:27:11,382
Speaker 3: because of them. I have such a nostalgia for them.

553
00:27:11,621 --> 00:27:15,181
Speaker 3: They feel so comfortable, and I keep having such great

554
00:27:15,222 --> 00:27:18,262
Speaker 3: hope that they will return to their former glory.

555
00:27:18,341 --> 00:27:20,781
Speaker 2: And it's why people will watch reboots no matter how

556
00:27:20,782 --> 00:27:22,742
Speaker 2: bad the reboot is. It's like and then they'll shit

557
00:27:22,782 --> 00:27:24,582
Speaker 2: on the reboot and then they'll be really funny recap

558
00:27:24,621 --> 00:27:26,061
Speaker 2: of it. But it's like I was just happy to

559
00:27:26,101 --> 00:27:26,782
Speaker 2: spend time with them.

560
00:27:27,381 --> 00:27:29,662
Speaker 1: After the break, I'm going to explain why the name

561
00:27:29,742 --> 00:27:32,781
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein is once again back in the news and

562
00:27:32,861 --> 00:27:36,421
Speaker 1: how his connection to Trump is suddenly looking very dangerous

563
00:27:36,462 --> 00:27:37,182
Speaker 1: for the president.

564
00:27:37,901 --> 00:27:41,222
Speaker 2: Every Tuesday and Thursday, we drop new segments of MUMMYA

565
00:27:41,262 --> 00:27:44,821
Speaker 2: out Loud Just for MUMMYA subscribers, follow the link in

566
00:27:44,861 --> 00:27:46,821
Speaker 2: the show notes to get your daily dose of out

567
00:27:46,861 --> 00:27:53,782
Speaker 2: Loud and a big thank you to all our current subscribers.

568
00:27:56,861 --> 00:28:00,181
Speaker 1: You may be wondering why the name Jeffrey Epstein is

569
00:28:00,262 --> 00:28:03,022
Speaker 1: back in the news six years after he died in custody.

570
00:28:03,381 --> 00:28:06,341
Speaker 2: I keep saying that with a connection to Donald Trump,

571
00:28:06,422 --> 00:28:07,502
Speaker 2: and I have questions.

572
00:28:07,661 --> 00:28:09,502
Speaker 1: Before I tell you the answer, I'm going to give

573
00:28:09,502 --> 00:28:12,861
Speaker 1: you a quick reminder of who he is. Jeffrey Epstein

574
00:28:13,022 --> 00:28:16,341
Speaker 1: was a convicted sex offender. His criminal activities involved the

575
00:28:16,381 --> 00:28:19,501
Speaker 1: sexual abuse and the trafficking of underage girls, and then

576
00:28:19,542 --> 00:28:22,782
Speaker 1: he suicided in New York prison in twenty nineteen while

577
00:28:22,821 --> 00:28:23,421
Speaker 1: waiting trial.

578
00:28:23,702 --> 00:28:26,782
Speaker 2: Speaking of true crime conversations, I did one about Jeffrey Epstein.

579
00:28:26,821 --> 00:28:28,502
Speaker 2: It was one of those things that from the outside

580
00:28:28,502 --> 00:28:30,341
Speaker 2: I found it was too weedy, And then I sat

581
00:28:30,381 --> 00:28:32,701
Speaker 2: down with this expert about Jeffrey Epstein and it was

582
00:28:32,702 --> 00:28:36,661
Speaker 2: one of the most interesting bamboozling, Like, there are so

583
00:28:36,742 --> 00:28:40,941
Speaker 2: many questions about how that man had access to the

584
00:28:41,022 --> 00:28:43,702
Speaker 2: materials to end his own life in such a sort

585
00:28:43,702 --> 00:28:46,102
Speaker 2: of maximum security prison, right, That's like one of the

586
00:28:46,262 --> 00:28:47,022
Speaker 2: biggest questions.

587
00:28:47,102 --> 00:28:48,662
Speaker 3: He was already under suicide watch, wasn't.

588
00:28:48,742 --> 00:28:52,062
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was arguably the most high profile person in

589
00:28:52,142 --> 00:28:55,382
Speaker 1: American prisons at that time. I'm going to get to

590
00:28:55,422 --> 00:28:57,262
Speaker 1: that because there's a video that's been released with a

591
00:28:57,262 --> 00:28:59,822
Speaker 1: missing minute, which has a lot of people asking questions

592
00:28:59,822 --> 00:29:03,262
Speaker 1: about why he was allowed to suicide. But before that,

593
00:29:03,382 --> 00:29:06,462
Speaker 1: I want to explain why his fate has been tied

594
00:29:06,542 --> 00:29:09,102
Speaker 1: up with Trump's political fortunes, because so.

595
00:29:09,022 --> 00:29:10,862
Speaker 3: He's the one, and that it has already brought Prince

596
00:29:10,862 --> 00:29:12,342
Speaker 3: Andrew down exactly.

597
00:29:12,622 --> 00:29:16,702
Speaker 1: Yes, Trump and Epstein's fortunes have always been very much intertwined,

598
00:29:16,742 --> 00:29:20,782
Speaker 1: particularly Trump's presidential fortunes. Let me explain why. There was

599
00:29:20,942 --> 00:29:23,701
Speaker 1: a conspiracy theory that emerged in the mid twenty tens

600
00:29:23,742 --> 00:29:25,862
Speaker 1: called the q and non conspiracy theory.

601
00:29:26,102 --> 00:29:27,782
Speaker 3: I haven't heard about qnon for a long time.

602
00:29:27,982 --> 00:29:30,782
Speaker 1: Let me refresh you on that. So QAnon was basically

603
00:29:30,982 --> 00:29:34,502
Speaker 1: positing that Donald Trump is secretly leading a fight against

604
00:29:34,502 --> 00:29:37,421
Speaker 1: a global sex trafficking ring. That's right, and that was

605
00:29:37,542 --> 00:29:40,862
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton, Peter Gate, Lilizard people, Yeah, pizzagates. So a

606
00:29:40,902 --> 00:29:43,902
Speaker 1: man actually went to a pizza restaurant in Washington, DC,

607
00:29:44,102 --> 00:29:46,462
Speaker 1: which is actually near where I used to live, and

608
00:29:46,782 --> 00:29:49,342
Speaker 1: he took a gun with him because he was convinced

609
00:29:49,342 --> 00:29:53,182
Speaker 1: that Hillary Clinton was running an underage sex trafficking ring

610
00:29:53,582 --> 00:29:56,902
Speaker 1: from the basement of this pizza restaurant in Washington DC.

611
00:29:57,742 --> 00:29:59,582
Speaker 1: Qan on is the reason why a lot of people

612
00:29:59,702 --> 00:30:02,662
Speaker 1: latched onto Donald Trump, and the New York Times columnist

613
00:30:02,702 --> 00:30:05,701
Speaker 1: Michelle Goldberg has a theory as to why. She says

614
00:30:05,862 --> 00:30:09,862
Speaker 1: that Trump is so obviously personally degenerate that the Quan

615
00:30:09,902 --> 00:30:13,021
Speaker 1: non theory enabled his supporters to feel that he was

616
00:30:13,062 --> 00:30:17,302
Speaker 1: in fact fighting this grand, glorious fight against the most

617
00:30:17,382 --> 00:30:20,062
Speaker 1: evil people in the world, right, people who are trafficking

618
00:30:20,142 --> 00:30:21,022
Speaker 1: underage people.

619
00:30:21,182 --> 00:30:23,382
Speaker 3: It allowed them to have this sort of cognitive dissonance

620
00:30:23,422 --> 00:30:26,062
Speaker 3: that he's this awful person that talks about grabbing women

621
00:30:26,102 --> 00:30:28,982
Speaker 3: by the pussy and says these horrible things, and it's

622
00:30:29,022 --> 00:30:30,022
Speaker 3: such a misogynist.

623
00:30:30,702 --> 00:30:33,421
Speaker 1: She has found viable for sexual stuff.

624
00:30:33,382 --> 00:30:34,542
Speaker 3: Sexual assault, all these things.

625
00:30:35,102 --> 00:30:38,502
Speaker 1: But somehow he emerges as a white knight through the

626
00:30:38,582 --> 00:30:40,022
Speaker 1: q and non conspiracy, so.

627
00:30:39,942 --> 00:30:42,542
Speaker 3: They can ignore all that because he create has a

628
00:30:42,582 --> 00:30:43,422
Speaker 3: high purpose.

629
00:30:43,142 --> 00:30:48,142
Speaker 1: Great exactly. And so that's why when Epstein was arrested

630
00:30:48,182 --> 00:30:50,982
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen when Trump was president, for the sex

631
00:30:51,022 --> 00:30:54,342
Speaker 1: trafficking of miners, this seemed to really confirm the theory.

632
00:30:54,582 --> 00:30:57,782
Speaker 1: They said, Trump is doing exactly what we elected him

633
00:30:57,782 --> 00:30:58,102
Speaker 1: to do.

634
00:30:58,262 --> 00:31:00,822
Speaker 3: But wasn't he a mate of Epstein and well known

635
00:31:00,862 --> 00:31:03,142
Speaker 3: to have gone either to the island or on the jet.

636
00:31:03,142 --> 00:31:03,782
Speaker 3: I can't remember.

637
00:31:03,862 --> 00:31:05,822
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a couple of reasons why it's a bit

638
00:31:05,942 --> 00:31:09,701
Speaker 1: weird that people think this. Among them, Epstein said that

639
00:31:09,742 --> 00:31:12,582
Speaker 1: he was Trump's closest friend for ten years. No one

640
00:31:12,622 --> 00:31:14,982
Speaker 1: else has ever even said they were Donald Trump's friend.

641
00:31:15,062 --> 00:31:17,941
Speaker 1: The one person who has said has described themselves as

642
00:31:17,982 --> 00:31:22,302
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's friend was Jeffrey Epstein. Also another thing that's

643
00:31:22,342 --> 00:31:25,182
Speaker 1: weird is that Epstein this was not the first time

644
00:31:25,262 --> 00:31:28,302
Speaker 1: that Epstein was arrested for the sex trafficking of miners.

645
00:31:28,342 --> 00:31:30,382
Speaker 1: You might not know this, but back in two thousand

646
00:31:30,422 --> 00:31:34,302
Speaker 1: and nine in Florida, he was arrested for soliciting prostitution

647
00:31:34,422 --> 00:31:37,902
Speaker 1: from a minor, and he got no punishment for it.

648
00:31:37,942 --> 00:31:41,102
Speaker 1: He was essentially able to walk free after pleading guilty.

649
00:31:41,142 --> 00:31:43,622
Speaker 1: He was given thirteen months of what's called work release.

650
00:31:43,742 --> 00:31:45,622
Speaker 1: What that meant was he got to hang around his

651
00:31:45,661 --> 00:31:49,582
Speaker 1: Palm Beach mansion and basically live out the sentence there.

652
00:31:50,022 --> 00:31:52,181
Speaker 1: You might ask, how did that come about? Well, the

653
00:31:52,222 --> 00:31:54,822
Speaker 1: person who gave him that plea deal was a man

654
00:31:54,902 --> 00:31:58,622
Speaker 1: named Alexander Acosta, who then went on to serve in

655
00:31:58,661 --> 00:32:02,822
Speaker 1: Trump's first administration as his Secretary of Labor and then

656
00:32:02,982 --> 00:32:05,422
Speaker 1: there's the question of the suicide, which you raised, Jesse.

657
00:32:06,102 --> 00:32:09,701
Speaker 1: How does this man who the entire world was watching

658
00:32:09,782 --> 00:32:13,102
Speaker 1: and waiting for his trial die by suicide in a

659
00:32:13,142 --> 00:32:17,502
Speaker 1: federal prison run by Donald Trump's government. How does this happen?

660
00:32:18,542 --> 00:32:20,661
Speaker 1: So there are a number of reasons why it's weird

661
00:32:20,661 --> 00:32:23,142
Speaker 1: that people think that Trump was in fact out to

662
00:32:23,222 --> 00:32:28,142
Speaker 1: sort of vanquish Epstein, but nonetheless their fortunes became intertwined.

663
00:32:28,502 --> 00:32:29,982
Speaker 1: So the big thing.

664
00:32:29,862 --> 00:32:32,622
Speaker 2: Now has been that didn't Trump say he would release

665
00:32:32,702 --> 00:32:35,342
Speaker 2: the files? Because in the kind of public consciousness, there

666
00:32:35,422 --> 00:32:38,941
Speaker 2: is a document somewhere that tells us because obviously, with

667
00:32:39,022 --> 00:32:42,941
Speaker 2: Epstein died, all of his people that he could have outed.

668
00:32:43,022 --> 00:32:47,382
Speaker 1: Yeah, ring ye applies more than just Jeffrey Epstein.

669
00:32:47,542 --> 00:32:50,942
Speaker 3: Yes, and Galline Maxwell, who was his fixer or co

670
00:32:50,942 --> 00:32:53,661
Speaker 3: conspirator in anyway. She was convicted and she's serving time.

671
00:32:54,022 --> 00:32:54,701
Speaker 3: She is the.

672
00:32:54,622 --> 00:32:58,142
Speaker 1: Only person who has been actually held accountable for this

673
00:32:58,222 --> 00:33:01,422
Speaker 1: sex trafficking ring that Epstein led. So it's interesting, Jesse,

674
00:33:01,542 --> 00:33:03,502
Speaker 1: you just said, didn't he say during the campaign he'd

675
00:33:03,542 --> 00:33:04,422
Speaker 1: released the files?

676
00:33:04,822 --> 00:33:05,662
Speaker 3: What's in the files?

677
00:33:05,862 --> 00:33:08,622
Speaker 1: So the files definitely exist. That's not a conspiracy theory.

678
00:33:08,661 --> 00:33:11,461
Speaker 1: Anytime the government lunchers an investigation into someone and then

679
00:33:11,542 --> 00:33:14,102
Speaker 1: arrest someone. They have case files, and so there is

680
00:33:14,142 --> 00:33:18,181
Speaker 1: definitely a case file about Jeffrey Epstein, and that's what

681
00:33:18,222 --> 00:33:20,622
Speaker 1: people want to have released. But I looked into this

682
00:33:20,902 --> 00:33:23,862
Speaker 1: and I thought that too. It turns out that during

683
00:33:23,902 --> 00:33:28,181
Speaker 1: the campaign, Trump only mentioned the Epstein files twice. In

684
00:33:28,222 --> 00:33:31,102
Speaker 1: both instances, he was asked about them by right wing

685
00:33:31,142 --> 00:33:34,062
Speaker 1: conspiracy theorists who desperately wanted him to release the files,

686
00:33:34,582 --> 00:33:38,142
Speaker 1: and on both occasions he was very hesitant, and then

687
00:33:38,182 --> 00:33:40,262
Speaker 1: on the second occasion he said, I guess I would,

688
00:33:40,262 --> 00:33:42,782
Speaker 1: but you don't want to affect people's lives if there's

689
00:33:42,782 --> 00:33:45,862
Speaker 1: phony stuff in there. So the reason why we think

690
00:33:45,902 --> 00:33:48,542
Speaker 1: that Trump was really pushing tor rease the files is

691
00:33:48,582 --> 00:33:52,142
Speaker 1: not because Trump himself was. It's because everyone around him was.

692
00:33:52,582 --> 00:33:57,702
Speaker 1: Because they're all members of the maga Qan non conspiracy pipeline,

693
00:33:57,742 --> 00:34:00,742
Speaker 1: and they all think that Trump's going to finally reveal.

694
00:34:00,462 --> 00:34:03,261
Speaker 2: This ring because they see Trump as sort of the

695
00:34:03,302 --> 00:34:06,822
Speaker 2: anti political class he came in. That was his big appeal.

696
00:34:06,462 --> 00:34:07,582
Speaker 3: Like I've trained this swarm.

697
00:34:07,702 --> 00:34:10,862
Speaker 2: Remember that I read something in the BBC about an

698
00:34:10,902 --> 00:34:15,301
Speaker 2: immigrant who is currently in IC detention saying I will

699
00:34:15,342 --> 00:34:17,901
Speaker 2: support Trump until the day I died. And people are

700
00:34:18,022 --> 00:34:21,741
Speaker 2: so connected to this mythology that it was this corrupt,

701
00:34:21,902 --> 00:34:24,622
Speaker 2: disgusting government and Trump was going to come in, release

702
00:34:24,701 --> 00:34:27,582
Speaker 2: all of the files and go, I'm the anti president,

703
00:34:27,822 --> 00:34:28,741
Speaker 2: not just corrupt.

704
00:34:28,862 --> 00:34:31,382
Speaker 1: Like keep in mind, if you thought that the whole

705
00:34:31,422 --> 00:34:35,421
Speaker 1: government was a bunch of petophiles running an underage sex

706
00:34:35,462 --> 00:34:38,622
Speaker 1: trafficking ring out of a pizza restaurant in Washington, DC,

707
00:34:39,261 --> 00:34:42,741
Speaker 1: you'd feel pretty fired up too. Yes, And these supporters

708
00:34:42,781 --> 00:34:46,302
Speaker 1: include JD. Vance, his vice president, and his now Attorney

709
00:34:46,342 --> 00:34:49,301
Speaker 1: General Pam Bondie. Both these people are part of this

710
00:34:49,542 --> 00:34:53,901
Speaker 1: genuine conspiracy belief that Trump is going to finally end

711
00:34:54,062 --> 00:34:55,661
Speaker 1: the underage sex trafficking.

712
00:34:55,942 --> 00:34:58,462
Speaker 2: So I'm imagining that this file is in the top

713
00:34:58,542 --> 00:35:01,301
Speaker 2: drawer of Trump's desk. Why is he not releasing it?

714
00:35:01,302 --> 00:35:05,381
Speaker 1: Amelia So Pam Bondie who is his attorney general now,

715
00:35:05,502 --> 00:35:07,982
Speaker 1: and yes it is pronounced Bondie, even though to Australian

716
00:35:08,062 --> 00:35:11,221
Speaker 1: eyes every bond done di. She gets into office on

717
00:35:11,261 --> 00:35:13,942
Speaker 1: her first date, she's in charge of all the nation's

718
00:35:14,022 --> 00:35:18,422
Speaker 1: law enforcement and going after criminals, and she posts on

719
00:35:18,462 --> 00:35:21,701
Speaker 1: social media, I've got the file and guess what includes

720
00:35:21,781 --> 00:35:24,341
Speaker 1: the client list. It includes the list of all the rich,

721
00:35:24,422 --> 00:35:29,062
Speaker 1: powerful men who Jeffrey Epstein was basically trafficking these girls too.

722
00:35:29,142 --> 00:35:30,142
Speaker 3: She said, it's on my desk.

723
00:35:30,181 --> 00:35:31,982
Speaker 1: She said, it's on my desk. Now, let's keep in

724
00:35:32,022 --> 00:35:35,102
Speaker 1: mind government files are very, very long, very long. I'm

725
00:35:35,142 --> 00:35:38,301
Speaker 1: sure we're talking actually probably boxes of information. It's not

726
00:35:38,382 --> 00:35:41,302
Speaker 1: kind of like a one page TLDR. This is boxes

727
00:35:41,342 --> 00:35:44,661
Speaker 1: of information. And she says, basically, I can't wait to

728
00:35:44,741 --> 00:35:49,142
Speaker 1: release them to you. She messed up because basically then

729
00:35:49,181 --> 00:35:51,861
Speaker 1: there was reporting that Trump was really angry at her

730
00:35:51,902 --> 00:35:55,062
Speaker 1: for saying this, and now just last week, which is

731
00:35:55,102 --> 00:35:58,461
Speaker 1: why we're all talking about it, her office says, no,

732
00:35:58,502 --> 00:36:00,542
Speaker 1: there's no client list. It never existed.

733
00:36:00,741 --> 00:36:01,342
Speaker 3: I misspoke.

734
00:36:01,462 --> 00:36:05,582
Speaker 1: I misspoke. And also her department said no further disclosure

735
00:36:05,661 --> 00:36:12,022
Speaker 1: would be appropriate or warranted in the Epstein CASEGA is pissed.

736
00:36:12,221 --> 00:36:15,901
Speaker 1: You have never seen them this angry before. We are

737
00:36:15,942 --> 00:36:21,062
Speaker 1: talking Steve Bannon, Tucker Carson, Megan Kelly, all of the

738
00:36:21,102 --> 00:36:24,501
Speaker 1: biggest MAGA proponents are so angry at him.

739
00:36:24,661 --> 00:36:26,622
Speaker 2: So if I put my conspiracy hat on just for

740
00:36:26,661 --> 00:36:30,062
Speaker 2: a moment, please, I'm thinking that Trump's on page three,

741
00:36:30,221 --> 00:36:32,142
Speaker 2: like I'm thinking that she was looking at it, going

742
00:36:32,142 --> 00:36:34,062
Speaker 2: I'm going to release this, and then it's like, oh wait,

743
00:36:34,102 --> 00:36:36,422
Speaker 2: this is damning to the president. Like I'm thinking Trump's

744
00:36:36,462 --> 00:36:37,781
Speaker 2: in there. Is that a fair enough thing?

745
00:36:38,142 --> 00:36:40,701
Speaker 3: But I feel like this is why Amelia and I

746
00:36:40,741 --> 00:36:43,341
Speaker 3: keep arguing about this. She keeps saying this is gonna

747
00:36:43,342 --> 00:36:45,462
Speaker 3: split Maga, this could take him down, and I'm just like,

748
00:36:45,982 --> 00:36:48,701
Speaker 3: nothing has taken him down. Yeah, he's teflon, like as

749
00:36:48,701 --> 00:36:51,142
Speaker 3: he himself said, I could shoot someone in the middle

750
00:36:51,142 --> 00:36:52,861
Speaker 3: of Fifth Avenue and they'd still vote for me, and

751
00:36:52,902 --> 00:36:56,142
Speaker 3: they have. So he's been found liable for sexual assault.

752
00:36:56,261 --> 00:36:57,902
Speaker 3: He said I'll build the wall and he didn't. He

753
00:36:57,902 --> 00:36:58,982
Speaker 3: said I'll do this and he didn't.

754
00:36:59,022 --> 00:37:01,861
Speaker 2: Like they don't if he's had of the if he's

755
00:37:01,902 --> 00:37:04,462
Speaker 2: part of the ring that he set himself up against,

756
00:37:04,542 --> 00:37:08,062
Speaker 2: I feel like this would be the final straw for Maga.

757
00:37:08,142 --> 00:37:10,142
Speaker 1: Who We're like, it's not even about him being part

758
00:37:10,181 --> 00:37:13,342
Speaker 1: of the ring. They haven't even gotten there in their minds.

759
00:37:13,542 --> 00:37:16,542
Speaker 1: They haven't even considered that he's part of the ring.

760
00:37:16,942 --> 00:37:19,062
Speaker 1: Before we get to why, I just want to play

761
00:37:19,502 --> 00:37:22,901
Speaker 1: a clip because it shows how weird Trump is being

762
00:37:22,982 --> 00:37:23,861
Speaker 1: about this whole thing.

763
00:37:24,221 --> 00:37:27,582
Speaker 4: Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein. This guy's been

764
00:37:27,661 --> 00:37:31,741
Speaker 4: talked about for years. You're asking, we have Texas, we

765
00:37:31,822 --> 00:37:34,462
Speaker 4: have this, we have all of the things, and are

766
00:37:34,502 --> 00:37:39,102
Speaker 4: people still talking about this guy? This crip that is unbelievable.

767
00:37:39,221 --> 00:37:41,741
Speaker 3: This is the man that still talks about Hillary Clinton's emails.

768
00:37:42,221 --> 00:37:44,942
Speaker 1: So he did actually say last week that Hillary Clinton

769
00:37:44,942 --> 00:37:47,781
Speaker 1: and Barack Obama wrote the Epstein file, just so you know,

770
00:37:48,102 --> 00:37:50,661
Speaker 1: and he got badly ratioed for that on his own

771
00:37:50,701 --> 00:37:53,741
Speaker 1: social media platform, which is called truth Social. So the

772
00:37:53,822 --> 00:37:57,022
Speaker 1: reason why people care is not because they think or

773
00:37:57,142 --> 00:37:59,622
Speaker 1: even have pondered the possibility that Trump is on the

774
00:37:59,622 --> 00:38:03,062
Speaker 1: client list. They care because Trump was the person who

775
00:38:03,142 --> 00:38:06,782
Speaker 1: was meant to reveal this underage sex trafficking ring once

776
00:38:06,902 --> 00:38:09,102
Speaker 1: and for all, and he's not doing it.

777
00:38:09,862 --> 00:38:11,781
Speaker 3: Why you think maybe he's not?

778
00:38:12,142 --> 00:38:13,382
Speaker 2: Yeah, why do you think he won't released?

779
00:38:13,422 --> 00:38:18,181
Speaker 1: Because I think he's on the list. That's pretty simple, now, Nia,

780
00:38:18,342 --> 00:38:21,342
Speaker 1: you have also sort of gotten frustrated with me because

781
00:38:21,382 --> 00:38:25,261
Speaker 1: you've said this has happened before, You've said it's not

782
00:38:25,342 --> 00:38:27,022
Speaker 1: gonna work. No one's gonna care.

783
00:38:27,181 --> 00:38:29,821
Speaker 3: They honestly do not care what this man does. It

784
00:38:29,862 --> 00:38:31,861
Speaker 3: makes them. But I want to look at the woman

785
00:38:31,902 --> 00:38:34,102
Speaker 3: in eyes to tension going. I love him so okay.

786
00:38:34,102 --> 00:38:38,142
Speaker 1: But Candace Owens, who is one of the worst conspiracy theorists,

787
00:38:38,142 --> 00:38:40,741
Speaker 1: friend of Canker, friend of Kanye, anti.

788
00:38:40,542 --> 00:38:42,582
Speaker 2: Vaxa not allowed in our country.

789
00:38:42,701 --> 00:38:46,701
Speaker 1: Her big crusade is that French President Emmanuel mccron's wife

790
00:38:46,741 --> 00:38:49,261
Speaker 1: is a man. Yeah, that's her like biggest crusade in

791
00:38:49,302 --> 00:38:52,221
Speaker 1: life other than underage sex trafficking ring. She has just

792
00:38:52,261 --> 00:38:54,542
Speaker 1: said of Trump, like in the last couple of days,

793
00:38:54,622 --> 00:38:58,942
Speaker 1: I feel like Trump thinks his base is stupid. You

794
00:38:59,542 --> 00:39:03,502
Speaker 1: the shark. She said that she is so angry.

795
00:39:03,261 --> 00:39:07,422
Speaker 2: He's portrayed his bass in a way that like is

796
00:39:07,542 --> 00:39:09,221
Speaker 2: different to what he's done.

797
00:39:09,102 --> 00:39:11,781
Speaker 3: Back There's also he has contempt for his base.

798
00:39:11,942 --> 00:39:14,461
Speaker 1: This is a classic I didn't think the leopard would

799
00:39:14,462 --> 00:39:17,862
Speaker 1: eat my face situation. Because these conspiracy theorists are also

800
00:39:17,942 --> 00:39:20,741
Speaker 1: really mad about a video that was released, So back

801
00:39:20,781 --> 00:39:25,022
Speaker 1: to the suicide idea. Pam Bondi's office does release a

802
00:39:25,142 --> 00:39:28,821
Speaker 1: video ten hours of footage from the communal area of

803
00:39:28,862 --> 00:39:32,381
Speaker 1: the prison where Epstein was being held where he suicided,

804
00:39:32,502 --> 00:39:36,901
Speaker 1: to show that nothing untoward was happening that night. Unfortunately,

805
00:39:37,102 --> 00:39:39,582
Speaker 1: there's a missing minute. There's just one minute in the

806
00:39:39,701 --> 00:39:41,702
Speaker 1: video where there's no video.

807
00:39:42,502 --> 00:39:44,981
Speaker 2: So how do we not all become conspiracy theorists about

808
00:39:44,982 --> 00:39:48,221
Speaker 2: this because some conspiracy theory about this is gonna be

809
00:39:48,302 --> 00:39:51,661
Speaker 2: true because it's so bizarre that there is such a

810
00:39:51,741 --> 00:39:53,742
Speaker 2: cover up with the Jeffrey Epstein stuff.

811
00:39:53,822 --> 00:39:57,582
Speaker 1: The cover up here, unfortunately in the sense that I

812
00:39:57,701 --> 00:39:59,981
Speaker 1: sound like a q and non person, the cover up

813
00:40:00,102 --> 00:40:03,302
Speaker 1: is huge. What we know is there were two hundred

814
00:40:03,342 --> 00:40:07,221
Speaker 1: and fifty so called messuses working for Epstein. Now I

815
00:40:07,261 --> 00:40:08,861
Speaker 1: don't know if all two hundred and fifty of them

816
00:40:08,902 --> 00:40:12,221
Speaker 1: were under a but that's two hundred and fifty girls

817
00:40:12,302 --> 00:40:14,861
Speaker 1: or women who were working for Epstein on what we

818
00:40:14,942 --> 00:40:17,422
Speaker 1: know to be a massive sex trafficking ring. Can you

819
00:40:17,502 --> 00:40:21,222
Speaker 1: imagine how many men were involved in this. We also

820
00:40:21,302 --> 00:40:23,981
Speaker 1: know plenty of rich and powerful men have at least

821
00:40:24,022 --> 00:40:26,701
Speaker 1: flown on Epstein's private plane. That is also no one

822
00:40:26,741 --> 00:40:30,542
Speaker 1: and out there Clinton, including Bill Clinton, and including Donald

823
00:40:30,542 --> 00:40:33,701
Speaker 1: Trump and get The only person doing time for this

824
00:40:33,781 --> 00:40:37,622
Speaker 1: whole thing is Jesselen Maxwell, a woman. It's interesting.

825
00:40:38,462 --> 00:40:40,741
Speaker 2: Look, friends, we've covered some it's been.

826
00:40:40,661 --> 00:40:42,862
Speaker 3: Our true crime episode. Really today I think.

827
00:40:42,741 --> 00:40:44,462
Speaker 2: It has we turned into a true crime podcast.

828
00:40:44,502 --> 00:40:45,221
Speaker 3: I didn't hate it.

829
00:40:45,302 --> 00:40:46,221
Speaker 2: I didn't hate it at all.

830
00:40:46,302 --> 00:40:47,781
Speaker 3: I did a little listening, which is good given the

831
00:40:47,781 --> 00:40:48,142
Speaker 3: state of.

832
00:40:48,062 --> 00:40:50,382
Speaker 2: My voice, but just to add some light to the shade.

833
00:40:50,781 --> 00:40:53,661
Speaker 2: Has anyone else found, particularly in the last few weeks,

834
00:40:53,661 --> 00:40:56,622
Speaker 2: that you're having issues with your muscaa? Has anyone found this?

835
00:40:57,142 --> 00:40:57,462
Speaker 1: Sorry?

836
00:40:57,622 --> 00:40:58,022
Speaker 4: What do you mean?

837
00:40:58,102 --> 00:40:58,422
Speaker 1: Okay?

838
00:40:58,822 --> 00:41:00,502
Speaker 2: Every time I've gone to put on mascara in the

839
00:41:00,542 --> 00:41:04,942
Speaker 2: last few weeks, very very clumpy, right, I'm having issues?

840
00:41:04,982 --> 00:41:05,781
Speaker 1: Is that a weather thing?

841
00:41:05,942 --> 00:41:08,862
Speaker 2: It's a weather thin thank you, Amelia, so Grayla.

842
00:41:08,982 --> 00:41:10,381
Speaker 3: Just you look a little clumpy now that you point

843
00:41:10,382 --> 00:41:10,582
Speaker 3: it out.

844
00:41:10,862 --> 00:41:13,102
Speaker 1: Yes, well, but not in like a sexy French bomb

845
00:41:13,142 --> 00:41:16,142
Speaker 1: show a clumpy way, is that right? Yes?

846
00:41:16,221 --> 00:41:19,222
Speaker 2: Okay, so what happens in winter? I forgot this because

847
00:41:19,342 --> 00:41:23,222
Speaker 2: as a millennial, I spent ten years watching beauty YouTube videos,

848
00:41:23,261 --> 00:41:24,982
Speaker 2: and I have remembered a fun fact that I think

849
00:41:25,022 --> 00:41:27,982
Speaker 2: every woman needs to remember right now, which is, if

850
00:41:28,022 --> 00:41:30,181
Speaker 2: your muscara is getting clumpy and you think you need

851
00:41:30,221 --> 00:41:32,942
Speaker 2: a new one, you've got to put your muscara in

852
00:41:32,982 --> 00:41:35,982
Speaker 2: some hot water, right what? Yes? And this is the

853
00:41:36,022 --> 00:41:38,661
Speaker 2: same with your eyeliner, with anything that's gotten a little

854
00:41:38,661 --> 00:41:42,821
Speaker 2: bit clumpy. I googled this, solen a clumpy No, no, no, no,

855
00:41:42,862 --> 00:41:45,062
Speaker 2: So I'm imagining my I have a pot of eyeliner

856
00:41:45,342 --> 00:41:47,181
Speaker 2: and in winter, what will happen is it will kind

857
00:41:47,221 --> 00:41:48,862
Speaker 2: of like solidify.

858
00:41:49,942 --> 00:41:50,022
Speaker 1: That.

859
00:41:50,181 --> 00:41:53,661
Speaker 2: Yes, so what you need to do is, yes, close it.

860
00:41:54,302 --> 00:41:56,622
Speaker 2: If you have an eyeshadow like that. Sometimes you could

861
00:41:56,781 --> 00:41:58,661
Speaker 2: add some water to it, yes, I think you can.

862
00:41:58,781 --> 00:42:01,502
Speaker 2: But anyway you can close it, get a little thing even,

863
00:42:01,582 --> 00:42:03,021
Speaker 2: just put it in your sink with some more watar,

864
00:42:03,102 --> 00:42:05,542
Speaker 2: leave it there for a little while and closed, and

865
00:42:05,582 --> 00:42:07,582
Speaker 2: it'll unclump and then when you go to put your

866
00:42:07,661 --> 00:42:11,701
Speaker 2: muskara on, it will be all like fresh and like

867
00:42:12,462 --> 00:42:13,582
Speaker 2: not clumpy again.

868
00:42:13,701 --> 00:42:16,102
Speaker 1: And maybe you can multitask and clean your brushes at

869
00:42:16,142 --> 00:42:16,781
Speaker 1: the same time.

870
00:42:16,942 --> 00:42:20,102
Speaker 2: You can, And that reminds me with your before when

871
00:42:20,102 --> 00:42:22,462
Speaker 2: you were curling your lashes. You should always heat it up.

872
00:42:22,701 --> 00:42:23,622
Speaker 2: You should always have it.

873
00:42:23,741 --> 00:42:26,181
Speaker 3: I know, I know, but firstly, I don't have a

874
00:42:26,221 --> 00:42:29,142
Speaker 3: hair dryer with me in the studio. And secondly, I

875
00:42:29,221 --> 00:42:31,142
Speaker 3: used to be a mad eyelash curler. I used to

876
00:42:31,181 --> 00:42:32,822
Speaker 3: be able to do it while I was driving. Don't

877
00:42:32,822 --> 00:42:35,622
Speaker 3: try this at home, Yeah, probably lose points for real license. Yeah,

878
00:42:35,701 --> 00:42:37,261
Speaker 3: but I was very good at it. I didn't need

879
00:42:37,302 --> 00:42:39,542
Speaker 3: a mirror. I was amazing. I used to like, if

880
00:42:39,582 --> 00:42:41,221
Speaker 3: I went out for dinner, I would take it. I

881
00:42:41,221 --> 00:42:44,022
Speaker 3: would curl my lashes all the time. Then, for like

882
00:42:44,022 --> 00:42:47,181
Speaker 3: I don't know, twenty years, I stopped. Now I'm starting again.

883
00:42:47,181 --> 00:42:49,781
Speaker 3: I've hardly got any eyelashes left. But I did burn

884
00:42:49,822 --> 00:42:52,301
Speaker 3: myself a few times on the eyelid because I made

885
00:42:52,302 --> 00:42:53,821
Speaker 3: it too hot, and then I didn't wait for it

886
00:42:53,862 --> 00:42:54,381
Speaker 3: to cool down.

887
00:42:54,502 --> 00:42:57,582
Speaker 2: Oh see, I put mine under warm water for a

888
00:42:57,622 --> 00:42:59,861
Speaker 2: little bit so it's not too hot. And then and

889
00:42:59,862 --> 00:43:01,582
Speaker 2: then I.

890
00:43:00,982 --> 00:43:03,622
Speaker 1: Co movement Chessie. I think when I curl my lashes,

891
00:43:03,661 --> 00:43:05,781
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is the most organized day will be

892
00:43:06,062 --> 00:43:06,742
Speaker 1: all of today.

893
00:43:06,982 --> 00:43:09,462
Speaker 2: I'm not totally convinced. As someone who curls my lashes

894
00:43:09,582 --> 00:43:11,942
Speaker 2: those days, I'm not convinced it makes any difference. I

895
00:43:11,942 --> 00:43:13,702
Speaker 2: think it's just something I do as part of the product.

896
00:43:13,701 --> 00:43:15,542
Speaker 3: I think it does. You've got beautiful ashes, though you've

897
00:43:15,542 --> 00:43:16,022
Speaker 3: got long.

898
00:43:16,181 --> 00:43:18,382
Speaker 2: Little clumpy today, but they won't be tomorrow. So I

899
00:43:18,382 --> 00:43:21,741
Speaker 2: was talking to producer Ruth about this earlier, and she's

900
00:43:21,902 --> 00:43:24,701
Speaker 2: very wise, and she's also like some out louders, they

901
00:43:24,741 --> 00:43:26,301
Speaker 2: don't have the time, they don't have the commitment to

902
00:43:26,302 --> 00:43:27,861
Speaker 2: be putting something that might not be near a tap.

903
00:43:27,942 --> 00:43:29,661
Speaker 2: They might not be near a tap. Such a good point.

904
00:43:29,701 --> 00:43:32,582
Speaker 2: May well, here's a hack. You start doing your makeup

905
00:43:32,582 --> 00:43:34,861
Speaker 2: at the beginning. You put your masca in your bra.

906
00:43:35,422 --> 00:43:37,462
Speaker 2: You put it between your thighs. Oh, you put it

907
00:43:37,542 --> 00:43:38,901
Speaker 2: under your sweaty arm pit.

908
00:43:39,022 --> 00:43:39,661
Speaker 3: Oh, you put it.

909
00:43:41,382 --> 00:43:44,142
Speaker 2: I don't think that gynecologists will. They could be bai.

910
00:43:44,822 --> 00:43:45,301
Speaker 3: Don't do that.

911
00:43:45,942 --> 00:43:49,582
Speaker 2: So put it somewhere warm that isn't internal, and then

912
00:43:49,781 --> 00:43:53,502
Speaker 2: you take it out and boom, ready to go. A

913
00:43:53,542 --> 00:43:55,862
Speaker 2: big thank you to all of you the out louders

914
00:43:55,862 --> 00:43:58,861
Speaker 2: for listening to today's show, and our fabulous team for

915
00:43:58,942 --> 00:44:02,022
Speaker 2: putting this show together. We should say as well, we

916
00:44:02,102 --> 00:44:06,662
Speaker 2: did a subscriber episode yesterday all about what on earth

917
00:44:06,741 --> 00:44:09,661
Speaker 2: is going on with Justin Bieber if you like some

918
00:44:09,701 --> 00:44:11,942
Speaker 2: of our explainers today. What we did is we sat

919
00:44:12,022 --> 00:44:15,222
Speaker 2: and vernum down. We went, you're young, what's with the album?

920
00:44:15,422 --> 00:44:16,301
Speaker 2: What's with Hailey Beab?

921
00:44:16,462 --> 00:44:20,582
Speaker 1: She did give us the gens. Then she also gave

922
00:44:20,622 --> 00:44:21,382
Speaker 1: us some great answer.

923
00:44:21,622 --> 00:44:24,462
Speaker 2: She did she did. It was very very enlightening. You

924
00:44:24,502 --> 00:44:26,861
Speaker 2: can listen to that now. It dropped yesterday and we

925
00:44:26,862 --> 00:44:28,622
Speaker 2: will be back in your ears tomorrow.

926
00:44:28,661 --> 00:44:30,501
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go and have some lemon and honey tea.

927
00:44:30,701 --> 00:44:31,902
Speaker 3: So I'm all good for Friday.

928
00:44:32,102 --> 00:44:33,902
Speaker 2: Bye Bye bye.

929
00:44:34,342 --> 00:44:37,502
Speaker 3: Shout out to any Mum and Maya subscribers listening. If

930
00:44:37,542 --> 00:44:40,102
Speaker 3: you love the show and want to support us as well,

931
00:44:40,302 --> 00:44:42,821
Speaker 3: subscribing to MoMA Miya is the very best way to

932
00:44:42,862 --> 00:44:45,262
Speaker 3: do so. There is a link in the episode description