Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mamma Mere acknowledges
Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast
Speaker 1: is recorded on.
Speaker 2: What you see A capable woman that most unsurprising of things.
Speaker 2: She's got it together. She gets shit done. She's a
Speaker 2: swirl of perpetual motion, a blur of texts and chat
Speaker 2: and pinging calendar alerts. Want something done, Ask a busy woman.
Speaker 2: That's what they say. That's what you see. What you
Speaker 2: don't see is what it takes. Because the toll is invisible,
Speaker 2: and sometimes so is the pain. Some of the busiest
Speaker 2: women you know are also the ones pushing through the most.
Speaker 2: You look fine to me, people say as they observe her, moving, fixing, caring, sorting.
Speaker 2: But what's underneath the unending motion for some a tactical
Speaker 2: battle with a wily enemy. The careful scheduling, the relentless appointments,
Speaker 2: a search for the latest cure, the supplements, the meds,
Speaker 2: the strict sleep rules often broken, the carefully counted spoons,
Speaker 2: portions of energy carefully spent, the payoffs, the collapse, the rebuild.
Speaker 2: By mid Often our bodies have found new and dastardly
Speaker 2: ways of getting our attention. If you won't slowed down,
Speaker 2: they mutter, as our hormones rage, I.
Speaker 1: Will put you on your ass.
Speaker 2: But our minds they're not slowing. They're pumping creativities up.
Speaker 2: Wisdom is surging. For many, energy is returning after being
Speaker 2: handed to others for so long.
Speaker 1: We don't want to lie down. And yet women living.
Speaker 2: With invisible, quiet, chronic conditions are in a constant conflict
Speaker 2: with how much.
Speaker 1: Their bodies must cost them.
Speaker 2: They're ambition perhaps that time with the kids, maybe, but
Speaker 2: most likely not the work, the caring. It gets done
Speaker 2: because busy driven women do, even when their bodies are shouting.
Speaker 1: Don't hello.
Speaker 2: I'm Holly Wainwright and I am mid midlife, mid family,
Speaker 2: mid strive. Today I'm talking about ambition with one of
Speaker 2: the most successful Australian women in Hollywood. But it's not
Speaker 2: a simple story because, as she might have gathered from
Speaker 2: today's introduction, Bruna pap Andrea's success and it's significant success
Speaker 2: she runs through a production company. She is the woman
Speaker 2: behind movies like Wild and Gone Girl and The Dry
Speaker 2: and TV shows like Big Little Lies and The Undoing,
Speaker 2: and of course Strife, which was Mia Friedman's memoir brought
Speaker 2: to life. All this success comes despite of or she
Speaker 2: might suggest, because of the fact she.
Speaker 1: Lives with lupus.
Speaker 2: Lupus is a chronic autoimmune disease, and like other forms
Speaker 2: of insidious invisible illnesses and conditions, it makes everything harder
Speaker 2: for Brunna, who lives in Sydney with her family now
Speaker 2: but has lived and still works all over the world.
Speaker 2: It means that some days getting out of bed is
Speaker 2: almost impossible, and every morning she wakes with pain. It
Speaker 2: means for Bruna that she has to watch her diet
Speaker 2: her stress levels. Not that easy when you employ whole
Speaker 2: crews of people and are juggling multimillion dollar budgets.
Speaker 1: That having her longed.
Speaker 2: For kids was difficult, That she's always trialing new treatments,
Speaker 2: always hoping for a cure, always dreading an escalation. But
Speaker 2: the thing is, Bruna is the least self pitying person
Speaker 2: you can imagine. She is intensely driven, an enormous fun.
Speaker 2: She thinks that the things that have challenged her from
Speaker 2: a childhood growing up in housing commission to her loopus
Speaker 2: are actually.
Speaker 1: The superpowers that drive her.
Speaker 2: And the reason I was so keen to get her
Speaker 2: on the mid is because I'm fascinated by two things
Speaker 2: that Bruna is in a unique place to tell me.
Speaker 2: Does ambition dissipate or intensify in midlife when you've already
Speaker 2: achieved so much? And how do you do all that
Speaker 2: she does when you live in chronic discomfort? The last
Speaker 2: bit I knew would resonate with so many of you listening,
Speaker 2: because although you might not be hanging out with movie
Speaker 2: stars in Hollywood, I don't know your life.
Speaker 1: Maybe you are.
Speaker 2: It's perfectly possible and likely considering a very large percentage
Speaker 2: of midlife women do live with a conditioned disability or
Speaker 2: illness that make sure every day a sometimes insurmountable challenge.
Speaker 1: This one is for you.
Speaker 2: Welcome to mid the irrepressible Bruna Papenrea Bruna Holly. To
Speaker 2: prepare for this chat today, I went back and listened
Speaker 2: to the chat you did with mea on No Filter
Speaker 2: a while ago. Now, and we'll put a link in
Speaker 2: the show notes to it so people can listen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2: Pre pandemic, you were living in La Still. Yeah, you
Speaker 2: had just I think finished filming Big Little Lies the
Speaker 2: first season.
Speaker 3: Wow, Yes it was it was back then, and I
Speaker 3: think it was your first TV adaptation. Yes, right, Since
Speaker 3: that interview, I went and did my little, very in
Speaker 3: depth IMDb research. You have apparently brought around sixteen other
Speaker 3: projects all the way to the screen, which include movies
Speaker 3: like The Dry of Course, and lots more TV shows
Speaker 3: you were saying.
Speaker 2: In that interview, I want to do more of those. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And of course you have the undoing I'm Perfect, Strangers Lost,
Speaker 2: Vas Balance, Hut, and.
Speaker 1: Of course Strife. Yes, the adaptation of Me is memoir.
Speaker 2: You've also moved your family back to Australia, and I'm
Speaker 2: tired just saying all of those things, which is why
Speaker 2: I wanted to talk to you about work, ambition and
Speaker 2: just leaning into it at this phase of our lives.
Speaker 2: Do you feel as ambitious now as you did at
Speaker 2: twenty five?
Speaker 3: Yes, I would say I feel more ambitious now, actually
Speaker 3: much more. I'd say I'm more ambitious in this moment
Speaker 3: in time than I've ever been.
Speaker 1: Why do you think that is?
Speaker 3: I think because I feel I mean, I've heard it
Speaker 3: talked about a lot on your show. Actually, because I
Speaker 3: think what I did realize when I was younger is
Speaker 3: that you know, it kind of sneaks up on you,
Speaker 3: like not the knowledge that the you know, kind of
Speaker 3: institutional knowledge that you know we all learn and then carry.
Speaker 3: And I feel like I know more, I know my
Speaker 3: taste more, I know more, I have bit bigger relationships.
Speaker 3: So I feel really just emboldened and kind of on fire.
Speaker 3: And like I think that's a sad thing about getting older.
Speaker 1: That's the good thing about getting older.
Speaker 3: But what's hard is like your body is getting older,
Speaker 3: particularly as you go into menopause, but you've never felt
Speaker 3: more clarity a vision and vision itself and creatives and
Speaker 3: so it's a strange type. I also have young children,
Speaker 3: so that's also strange at fifty three to have young children.
Speaker 1: Still.
Speaker 2: You and Iron similar boats with Matt. We were both
Speaker 2: late as it were. Do you think though, when you
Speaker 2: think about how your ambition and your drive has morphed,
Speaker 2: because there's no way that you would ever be who
Speaker 2: you are without having also been very ambitious. Yes, I was.
Speaker 2: I was ambitious from like a kid, any kid you've
Speaker 2: talked about. You said to me or in that interview
Speaker 2: that you think part of that was your upbringing. I'm
Speaker 2: the fact that you grew up without money, in home,
Speaker 2: in public housing and a single mum, and you said
Speaker 2: that that background has made you fearless because you had
Speaker 2: nothing to lose.
Speaker 1: Yep, I still feel like that.
Speaker 2: And it's funny because some people from a similar background
Speaker 2: say the opposite. They say they're so afraid of ever
Speaker 2: being back there that it makes them risk averse.
Speaker 1: Why do you think so different for you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I understand both sides of that. I
Speaker 3: think that you know ultimately, I think that I talk
Speaker 3: about this a lot. If I was ever going to
Speaker 3: do a Ted talk, my Ted talok would be called
Speaker 3: like invisible superpower, because I think that your upbringing can
Speaker 3: be your superpower. And I think because I know the
Speaker 3: value of just not not the value, but I think
Speaker 3: I'm such a believer because I came from you cannot imagine.
Speaker 3: Like if I look now and I go, how did
Speaker 3: that girl get here? I think it's kind of even
Speaker 3: I look back and go, how did that happen?
Speaker 2: When people will ask you that all the time, Yeah,
Speaker 2: no they do. Do you have a simple like do
Speaker 2: you have a pat answer for that?
Speaker 1: Or not? Really?
Speaker 3: No, I mean, look, the answer I always give to
Speaker 3: young people is expose yourself and put yourself in the
Speaker 3: way of any opportunity, even if you think it's not
Speaker 3: the one that will lead you to where you want
Speaker 3: to be, but expose yourselves to as many opportunities as possible,
Speaker 3: because you know, working in a restaurant, for instance, taught
Speaker 3: me how to communicate, you know, and how to interface
Speaker 3: with people. You know, you wouldn't think that would be
Speaker 3: a natural progression to producing, but actually it is, you know,
Speaker 3: And I think that, you know, I do think in
Speaker 3: a creative field particularly, I've never let money be my driver.
Speaker 3: I think that's the key, you know, and some things
Speaker 3: have been very successful for me. But I still make
Speaker 3: things where I invest, reinvest in my entire fee because again,
Speaker 3: I'm not driven by money. I'm driven by you know,
Speaker 3: wanting to put something great and creative into the world. So,
Speaker 3: you know, I think it is a superpower, I think.
Speaker 3: I mean, I worry a bit for my kids actually,
Speaker 3: because they're going to go very differently to how I
Speaker 3: grew up. You know, I remember my first you know,
Speaker 3: borrowing money to buy my first thousand dollar car. I
Speaker 3: remember buying my first five thousand dollar car. I really
Speaker 3: remember buying my first brand new car and the sense
Speaker 3: of achievement I had from that.
Speaker 1: So I think that that's the kind of superpower I'm
Speaker 1: talking about.
Speaker 3: I think it drives you in a way because we're survivors, right,
Speaker 3: you have to survive.
Speaker 1: It's you know.
Speaker 3: I think it's very different when you have to make
Speaker 3: a decision based on paying bills other than you know,
Speaker 3: or just like based on sometimes people with too much
Speaker 3: money have too many choices.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you about money because, as we've said,
Speaker 2: do you talk about coming from nothing and your work
Speaker 2: is constant risk in a way, as she just said,
Speaker 2: you know, you might have a massive success and then
Speaker 2: re and then the payback in all ways is often
Speaker 2: long term. As having money now changed you and your
Speaker 2: relationship to ambition.
Speaker 1: Still don't know as much as you think.
Speaker 3: And I'm getting no because in all seriousness, I think
Speaker 3: I have poured so much back in because I feel
Speaker 3: like we're just you know, growing and growing the company.
Speaker 3: And I've also survived through six years of a pandemic
Speaker 3: and two massive work stoppages without letting one single person go,
Speaker 3: you know, without letting a staff member go, which was
Speaker 3: you know, probably the most I would say, business wise,
Speaker 3: most stressful few years in my life.
Speaker 2: Does that say something about your priorities that you were like,
Speaker 2: we're keeping everybody together and we're keeping these projects moving
Speaker 2: rather than rationalization.
Speaker 1: Shit, this is scary. Yeah, I think it's too batch.
Speaker 1: You're not just me.
Speaker 3: I mean Steve is my partner, my husband, and my
Speaker 3: co founder, and he and I cut from exactly the
Speaker 3: same cloth. We I think would both give our friends
Speaker 3: our last dollar if they needed it. Like we are
Speaker 3: just both like cut from that cloth where you know,
Speaker 3: if there is a need, then we can help in
Speaker 3: any way we can.
Speaker 1: So I think there is that.
Speaker 3: But also I think I definitely have restructured things a
Speaker 3: bit in the last few years. I've definitely, as I've
Speaker 3: gotten older, kind of taken a one thousand foot view
Speaker 3: and I have gotten a little bit to the point
Speaker 3: where I'm like anyone who runs a business. I mean,
Speaker 3: I just have so much respect for anyone who runs
Speaker 3: a business because I think until you do the stress
Speaker 3: of like you know, just maintaining and paying people, so
Speaker 3: and I definitely do feel like sometimes, you know, through
Speaker 3: some of the more difficult times, I have worked to
Speaker 3: pay other people when I'm not paying myself, and that
Speaker 3: you know, that can just put an enormous amount of
Speaker 3: stress on your own life, and we are the lucky ones,
Speaker 3: like we have not stopped filming through any of these periods.
Speaker 1: Constant adaptation, right yeah.
Speaker 3: Rules, yes, And that's I think partly what I mean
Speaker 3: by the superpower. When COVID hit, I feel like I
Speaker 3: was okay because I.
Speaker 1: Was like, okay, well what do we do? How do we?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: We you know, we started a fund to raise some
Speaker 3: money for cruise. We raised a million dollars for crew
Speaker 3: who couldn't work. We were able to come to austraighter
Speaker 3: and work. Steve and I are both very flexible and
Speaker 3: very adaptable, and that's the one thing I've realized in
Speaker 3: business you just have to be you have to be flexible.
Speaker 3: And in fact, that's just something parenthood, all of it,
Speaker 3: all of it health.
Speaker 1: You just have to be flexible. Have you ever been
Speaker 1: burnt out? Oh? Yeah, well you know, yes, yes, yes
Speaker 1: you have.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think the problem with me is that
Speaker 3: this is again I'm just I'm going to say I'm
Speaker 3: such a fan of your podcast because I've there's so
Speaker 3: many touch points for me, and I think one of
Speaker 3: the biggest ones is realizing that just at the point
Speaker 3: you kind of feel like you, you.
Speaker 1: Know, are just getting started.
Speaker 3: You are dealing with you know, not me so much
Speaker 3: in this moment, but like I have so many friends
Speaker 3: dealing with aging parents, parents who are dying. I'm also
Speaker 3: dealing with, you know, a pretty extreme health condition, and
Speaker 3: I'm dealing with two eleven year olds and also running
Speaker 3: a business. So yes, because I'm a very high functioning
Speaker 3: person with lupis. And every time I meet another high
Speaker 3: functioning person or meet them, even when I hear about one,
Speaker 3: you know, Selena Gomez, you know, one of the Willen's sisters, Yeah,
Speaker 3: it gives me. It just kind of makes me feel
Speaker 3: good because I'm like, well, they can do it. So yeah,
Speaker 3: sometimes I will just crash, and just because if I'm
Speaker 3: not looking after myself, which is crucial and as women,
Speaker 3: I think we do often. I think there's some crazy
Speaker 3: stat that women go to the doctor and look after
Speaker 3: themselves so much less after they have children. We just
Speaker 3: prioritize things in a different way. So I think all
Speaker 3: that combined with perimenopause and then menopause, Yeah, it's been
Speaker 3: that lupis is also, which I've really found in those fears,
Speaker 3: It's really triggered for me by hormonal changes. Right, So pregnancy,
Speaker 3: most people go into remission.
Speaker 1: I didn't.
Speaker 3: I was one of the unlucky ones that it got
Speaker 3: worse through my twin pregnancy at forty one, and then
Speaker 3: of course menopause brings on a whole lot of other
Speaker 3: so challenges.
Speaker 2: I want to ask you about what that looks like, right,
Speaker 2: because you have said, you know, you have tried lots
Speaker 2: of different treatments. Let's explain a little bit for people
Speaker 2: what lupus is if they don't know. You were diagnosed
Speaker 2: with it in about twenty ten, Is that right?
Speaker 1: Exactly?
Speaker 3: There was diagnosed literally days before I got married. That's
Speaker 3: how I always remember.
Speaker 1: And what led you to that? Like what was happened?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I was having a lot of pains in
Speaker 3: my hands and feet that I couldn't explain. So I
Speaker 3: was having my hands x rayed and I was having
Speaker 3: my feed x ray and you know those.
Speaker 1: People who pushed through things usually like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I do think I actually have a pretty
Speaker 3: high pain tolerance. But it was very consistent. I mean,
Speaker 3: that's when you realize what lupas is. You realize it's
Speaker 3: just very consistent. It like, you know, the closest thing
Speaker 3: that people will understand is the you know, the symptoms
Speaker 3: of mimic rheumatoidithritis. So I was X raying all these
Speaker 3: things and nothing was showing up. And finally they just
Speaker 3: kept testing, you know, various blood tests and then you know,
Speaker 3: you get enough markers and I tested positive for both
Speaker 3: this thing good an SSA marker and the Loopers marker.
Speaker 3: Then it was clear. So that's when I was kind
Speaker 3: of referred to a rheumatologist. And it's so such a
Speaker 3: funny one. You know, if you watch a lot of
Speaker 3: medical TV shows, they're like, it's loopers. Like when they
Speaker 3: can't explain what it is, I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: it's so funny. What cause is it? They don't really know.
Speaker 3: I can tell you what causes for me flares, and that's
Speaker 3: to be exacerbated. It's obviously an inflammation in your whole body.
Speaker 3: And when I say your whole body, like sometimes my
Speaker 3: eyes will be sore. I have inflammation on my brain. Unfortunately,
Speaker 3: I have inflammation on my heart.
Speaker 1: What does that mean? So so loopers? Right now?
Speaker 3: I have non organ interfering Loopers. And what that means
Speaker 3: is like it's not interfered with organ so much that
Speaker 3: I need like a liver transplant or a kidney transplant.
Speaker 3: So you have to keep an eye on it. So
Speaker 3: when I first got diagnosed, I was getting blood work
Speaker 3: every eight weeks, eight to nine weeks, just testing for
Speaker 3: it everything. So one of the you know, I suppose
Speaker 3: one of the bigger things is the inflammation of my brain,
Speaker 3: which just means white matter on your brain. So it's
Speaker 3: just inflammation like like it could be in the body,
Speaker 3: it can be on the brain. So basically for me,
Speaker 3: what that means is I get a brain MRI every
Speaker 3: year to make sure that it's stable, and so far
Speaker 3: it has been stable. And then the same with the heart.
Speaker 3: I'm on a low dose statin because it's very minor,
Speaker 3: but I just have to keep a check on it.
Speaker 3: I mean, I always say to my friends, well, you know,
Speaker 3: at least if I'm ever going to get anything, they're
Speaker 3: going to find it because I get checked a lot,
Speaker 3: and I'm pretty I'm pretty good now about being religious
Speaker 3: about getting checked.
Speaker 2: When that first happened to you and you were your
Speaker 2: careers in full flight, You're about to get married, was
Speaker 2: there ever a moment where you went, oh, my god,
Speaker 2: I'm going to have to stop like I'm going to
Speaker 2: have this is going to stop me from doing the
Speaker 2: things I want to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think so.
Speaker 3: I mean it definitely, I still get freaked out about it.
Speaker 3: It's still kind of I'm really optimistic about it because
Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of great research. I think
Speaker 3: there will be a cure in my lifetime. Do you
Speaker 3: take you obviously, I know you've tried heaps.
Speaker 1: No, I don't take anything right now.
Speaker 3: No. For a very short amount of time, I took
Speaker 3: Predna zone and then for me personally, it helps the symptoms,
Speaker 3: but it doesn't cure you. So I felt like for
Speaker 3: me that the long term use of steroids was more
Speaker 3: of a negative. And what I found for me was
Speaker 3: that if I ate kind of an anti inflammatory diet
Speaker 3: and if I exercised, and if I kept my stress
Speaker 3: levels down, that I could keep it under control. Stress
Speaker 3: levels down exactly.
Speaker 1: It's actually the worst.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine that the stress levels that we were
Speaker 2: just discussing, the people you employ, the money, the high stakes.
Speaker 2: I don't think that, like working in Hollywood has ever
Speaker 2: been considered well, in a.
Speaker 3: Weird way, I think that that stresses I would say
Speaker 3: for me and other people I know with loopers, and
Speaker 3: I know if you stress is the biggest you know,
Speaker 3: kind of a fender and biggest stress drives up your
Speaker 3: blood pressurelood pressure, you know, is it really puts me
Speaker 3: in danger for certain things, so high blood pressure.
Speaker 1: So I actually I think I reached a.
Speaker 3: Certain point I would say, not not when I got diagnosed,
Speaker 3: but I think within the last five years where I
Speaker 3: just don't stress this.
Speaker 1: Small stuff anymore.
Speaker 3: And I think that's exactly how I started off saying that.
Speaker 3: I think that in a way, as you get older,
Speaker 3: you learn that the smaller stuff doesn't matter and you
Speaker 3: can't change things. My husband's very good at reminding me,
Speaker 3: particularly in Hollywood, when you know, look, it's none of
Speaker 3: it's personal, number one. You know, an actor's availability, the
Speaker 3: stress on their lives, whether a filmmaker can do it,
Speaker 3: whether someone's going to give you the money to make something.
Speaker 3: You know, it's not personal, it's business. And so I really,
Speaker 3: I think learned to put that in perspective. And so
Speaker 3: I've been pretty good about keeping my stress under control.
Speaker 1: But more recently i've.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm such a fan of it's like you know,
Speaker 3: years ago, when like everyone was eating kale and you're like,
Speaker 3: did K We'll get a publicist or like suddenly it
Speaker 3: was gogie berries and you're like, you know, So the
Speaker 3: most recent thing we're all talking about which has been
Speaker 3: a game changer for me, it's infrared saunas and confin
Speaker 3: I was going to ask.
Speaker 2: You, yeah, what your sort of routine looks like. And
Speaker 2: also having lived in LA for a long time, I'm
Speaker 2: sure that you also, like you're exposed to a lot
Speaker 2: of really interesting therapy is and every famous person's podcast
Speaker 2: I listened to, they're doing a lot of things everything,
Speaker 2: So tell me about the routines that help you.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So I was lucky enough, and I do think and
Speaker 3: in fact, I would love to see Australia open a
Speaker 3: clinic like this. There is a clinic that I discovered
Speaker 3: really early into my loopers called a Tune and it's
Speaker 3: an auto It's a clinic only for autoimmune diseases. And
Speaker 3: they believe in not just the scientific based medications, but
Speaker 3: they had a full time nutritionist on staff. They will
Speaker 3: tell you to meditate, they will tell you maybe it's
Speaker 3: right for you to have a more pescatarian diet for
Speaker 3: your condition. Like they really look at the whole picture,
Speaker 3: which for me, I'm very much a whole picture person.
Speaker 1: Was a game.
Speaker 3: So I don't think they told me about the efforts.
Speaker 3: I started, you know, hearing a lot about how good
Speaker 3: cold plunges were for inflammation, So this is new to me.
Speaker 3: I'm not afraid to talk about one of the things
Speaker 3: that was really starting to worry me. I really was
Speaker 3: finding it hard through menopause to lose weight, and unfortunately
Speaker 3: for me, having too much weight on and I'm talking
Speaker 3: about I had, I have twenty five kilos. Too much
Speaker 3: weight on was causing my inflammation levels to really go up,
Speaker 3: was causing me to be pre diabetic. I could not
Speaker 3: afford that. So I did try Munjaro and I take
Speaker 3: one of the weight loss injections, and.
Speaker 1: That's obviously safe for you to take, very safe.
Speaker 3: My automate doctor was like a big proponent of it,
Speaker 3: and it was it had such a fast impact on
Speaker 3: my loopers markers, just my inflammatory levels. So I did
Speaker 3: lose I've lost probably the last time aunt. The twenty kilos.
Speaker 3: Game changing, Yeah yeah, game changing, game changing for like
Speaker 3: all my numbers were better, like just my cholesterol, I was,
Speaker 3: everything was better.
Speaker 1: Can I ask you patty question about it. Do you
Speaker 1: still eat food? Yeah?
Speaker 3: You do?
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you enjoy it? Yeah? So it's not like
Speaker 1: for me, No, I didn't.
Speaker 3: I will admit I tried a zembek first, and I
Speaker 3: just I just found that didn't make me feel good.
Speaker 3: And I was like, you know, I don't know about this.
Speaker 3: So and I do think it's every it's really specific
Speaker 3: to each individual. For me, the majaru was really good,
Speaker 3: and you know, there was almost no side effects. I
Speaker 3: just I think I ate less. I mean for me,
Speaker 3: I would just get fuller. But yes, I still one
Speaker 3: dat food. I enjoy it, and in fact, it gave
Speaker 3: me a ton of energy. I would say, that's good
Speaker 3: and yeah. So and then the second thing I've been
Speaker 3: doing and discovered is infrared saunas and cold pungas, which
Speaker 3: this is I would say in the last I've discovered
Speaker 3: this in the last two months and now I'm almost
Speaker 3: I'm a little bit addicted. I've done three or four
Speaker 3: in the last week.
Speaker 1: Wow. So how does it like?
Speaker 2: I heard you say that you with your because you
Speaker 2: wake up in pain.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And there'll be a lot of people who are listening
Speaker 2: to this who have some kind of chronic illness a
Speaker 2: lot of women. Yeah, and I'm sure that you and
Speaker 2: they know things that I don't know about what it's
Speaker 2: like to push through that every day. So I'd love
Speaker 2: you to tell me, like a little bit about the routines,
Speaker 2: the things you have to think about in your day
Speaker 2: that I don't have to think about as someone who
Speaker 2: isn't doing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it is. It's the people that I know
Speaker 3: with it. We talk about this all the time. I mean,
Speaker 3: I think the hard thing for a lot of people
Speaker 3: without immune is like they're invisible illnesses in the sense
Speaker 3: that you can't even describe it.
Speaker 1: Someone said, well, what's the pain?
Speaker 3: Like I go, I just want someone to stretch my
Speaker 3: body from the inside out, like you just want someone.
Speaker 1: To stretch you.
Speaker 3: And I get a lot of massages and sometimes they
Speaker 3: work and sometimes they don't.
Speaker 1: But we literally plan your diary around the things you
Speaker 1: have to do for your health.
Speaker 3: More recently, as but I've been, like many people, particularly women,
Speaker 3: I've been terrible at it, you know, I've really you know,
Speaker 3: I think the other thing that I have to navigate,
Speaker 3: particularly since deciding to be in Australia is travel. I mean,
Speaker 3: I think I've been to Europe seven times this year.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, so so a lot of plane trips.
Speaker 3: So I haven't been as good at prioritizing it in
Speaker 3: a way that I need to. So, yeah, I need
Speaker 3: to start getting up. I mean I get up very early,
Speaker 3: but I kind of I really understand why those people
Speaker 3: who are really successful get up at five a. I
Speaker 3: think five am is the key where you have enough
Speaker 3: time to do all the things, do all the things.
Speaker 3: And you know, and I'm a morning person.
Speaker 1: I love it. I'm not a night person.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think that's the easiest way to describe it.
Speaker 3: Is it is the fatigue element is not as much
Speaker 3: as it all happened to me. Occasionally while I feel
Speaker 3: really fatigued and I just need to lie in bed,
Speaker 3: but very occasionally for me, it is about like that pain.
Speaker 3: And when I gave birth, it was actually the worst
Speaker 3: time because I could not get up with my children
Speaker 3: in the night. I just wasn't capable. I needed sleep.
Speaker 3: I couldn't survive. And so my husband did it. And
Speaker 3: he has really been that person who has, you know,
Speaker 3: kind of covered nights for they're eleven and he still does. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: and he knows that that's yeah, and he knows what
Speaker 3: I'm having a bad day.
Speaker 2: Was he a voice of when you're pushing yourself really
Speaker 2: hard and you're not prioritizing the saunas? Yeah, the diet
Speaker 2: whatever it is.
Speaker 3: Is he Yeah, he's the he's the most annoying. He's
Speaker 3: like you know those people who you're like, he has
Speaker 3: He was doing juice cleanses like thirty years ago when
Speaker 3: people were doing them.
Speaker 1: He was medites meditated for thirty years. Do you meditate? No?
Speaker 1: It was so funny. I just listened to that podcast.
Speaker 1: While you're talking of meditation, What a time I've got
Speaker 1: to meditate.
Speaker 3: I'm Auntie. Sorry, I'm going to go the opposite. My
Speaker 3: husband meditates. I know so many for so many friends
Speaker 3: where it has changed their life. It is I have tried.
Speaker 3: It is not for me, and I'm not even going
Speaker 3: to try and convince myself it's for me. I think
Speaker 3: what we realized. And actually, when I listened to the
Speaker 3: Catherine May podcast, you did Yes, I Love Love my
Speaker 3: favorite of the podcast because everything she said, I was like, yes, Yeah.
Speaker 2: She's the author of a Beauty Foble, Good Wintering, among
Speaker 2: other things, and she was the number one person I
Speaker 2: wanted to talk to.
Speaker 3: I think she's so great. Yeah, what did she say that?
Speaker 3: I think what resonated with me? And I think you
Speaker 3: talk a lot about this too. Is like for her,
Speaker 3: it's cooking. For me, it's cooking a little bit too.
Speaker 3: For you, it might be gardening. For me, it's actually
Speaker 3: like reading travel magazines or interior magazine, something that like
Speaker 3: I would never just take the time to kind of
Speaker 3: switch off and do. So it's been with my girlfriends,
Speaker 3: you know, taking time to actually just do something that
Speaker 3: has nothing to do with children or work. So I
Speaker 3: do think that we find different things, but I don't
Speaker 3: want to quite in my mind. I mean, I just
Speaker 3: don't and I feel like I do have real clarity about,
Speaker 3: you know, the things that are important to me and
Speaker 3: kind of where I'm at. So for me, I don't
Speaker 3: like I don't feel I had some like you know,
Speaker 3: definitely have been depressed in my life when I was younger.
Speaker 3: I remember very clearly in my twenties, like walking as
Speaker 3: in London. I remember really clear like I needed medication.
Speaker 3: I was like depressed. It's never happened to me again.
Speaker 3: So it was situational, situational. It was a series of
Speaker 3: events that happened. But I will say even when I
Speaker 3: had a few rough days, you know, last week, just
Speaker 3: physically I went to that. I went to this place
Speaker 3: in BONDI nimbus and I jumped in that cold plunge.
Speaker 3: And I'm not a person I can't even put the
Speaker 3: cold water on in the shower, but I just I've
Speaker 3: just started doing it and it made me feel like
Speaker 3: it completely reset my mood. It completely reset how I
Speaker 3: felt physically. So I'm like, oh, I found this thing
Speaker 3: that you know, I love. My husband's also, I said
Speaker 3: to you know, because like I said, everything is easy
Speaker 3: for him. He exercises religiously, he doesn't He's very disciplined.
Speaker 3: He has always prioritized. I remember when I met him
Speaker 3: and he didn't have much money. When I met him,
Speaker 3: he hadn't worked in a while, and he was still
Speaker 3: doing tons of therapy, and I was like, oh, you
Speaker 3: can't afford therapy. But he made it a priority, Like
Speaker 3: he wouldn't borrow money to therapy because he knew that
Speaker 3: that is what he needed. And I've so much respect
Speaker 3: for that. Yeah, you know, because it's really like saying, Okay,
Speaker 3: what what do I need? What's important to me, So
Speaker 3: yes he has. He's always trying to get me to
Speaker 3: make space and time because it's a cliche.
Speaker 2: But it's a cliche for a reason that women, whether
Speaker 2: they're running a big business like you are, or whether
Speaker 2: they're just trying to keep the head of the water
Speaker 2: with jobs and kids, they always put their needs last.
Speaker 1: But it's the cliche that keeps.
Speaker 2: Coming around to hit us over the head, which is
Speaker 2: like every time you neglect that, even if it's the
Speaker 2: half an hour you spend just doing something you want
Speaker 2: to do, it will come back and back on the
Speaker 2: ass every single time your whole job. It seems to me,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to ask you what producers do, because
Speaker 2: I've heard lots of people ask you, and I think,
Speaker 2: but it seems to me a.
Speaker 3: Lot of decision make other people's dreams come true. You do.
Speaker 2: But also, you know, when you were just talking about clarity,
Speaker 2: your job, it seems to me must be a series
Speaker 2: of decisions all the time. Because you're in the role
Speaker 2: that you're in, you're getting input constantly from lots of
Speaker 2: different places. The right, just want this, the just want this,
Speaker 2: the studio, I want this, you want this.
Speaker 1: Yes, we're going to do that. I hear you, We're
Speaker 1: going to do that. It's being the prime minister, like
Speaker 1: a really good prime minister.
Speaker 3: I did you know I wanted to be the first
Speaker 3: female premise when I was younger.
Speaker 2: After this short break, more of my conversation with Bruno Papenrea.
Speaker 2: My image of Hollywood from the outside is that you
Speaker 2: would have to be one tough bitch, right and that
Speaker 2: and being tough as a woman can be hard. But
Speaker 2: you are very warm. Whenever I've met you, you're very warm.
Speaker 2: You're very capable and direct. I've heard you say that
Speaker 2: you've kind of learned how to get what you want
Speaker 2: without being one of those bullying dickheads.
Speaker 1: Do you recognize your personality or anything.
Speaker 3: No. I think it's very austral and I think it's
Speaker 3: I think it's the why Australians actually punched well above
Speaker 3: their way in Hollywood. I think we are very you know,
Speaker 3: we're very like kind of what you see is what
Speaker 3: you get, you know. I do think we find it
Speaker 3: hard to hide we're not you know, where we work hard.
Speaker 3: I've always been that person who just really liked to
Speaker 3: have fun as well. And because I remember saying to
Speaker 3: Menela once, like you could have hired anyone and women
Speaker 3: who were so much more experienced than I was twenty
Speaker 3: nine when he hired me, and he just said, I knew,
Speaker 3: I knew it would make me laugh. I mean, I
Speaker 3: knew we'd have fun, and you know, I need you
Speaker 3: cared about the creative And that is still I think
Speaker 3: how I feel like I love my job. And I
Speaker 3: think one of the things I'm not afraid to spreak
Speaker 3: truth to power.
Speaker 1: I think that's part of it. I think that is
Speaker 1: part of it.
Speaker 3: And when I say power, like the dynamics obviously, the
Speaker 3: power dynamics between me and a movie star, me and
Speaker 3: a filmmaker.
Speaker 1: You know, I've just found that like people.
Speaker 3: Really certainly the partnerships I've had the brilliant novelists. Just
Speaker 3: hear the Amazingly Morialtes podcast on this show.
Speaker 1: She was great. That was amazing.
Speaker 2: She also is very direct, actually in a very different way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's so good. Yeah, she's just so direct.
Speaker 3: I remember saying to her once for would you want
Speaker 3: to I hope she doesn't mind me saying this, And
Speaker 3: I was like, you know, would you consider adapting it
Speaker 3: or would you know, do you want to write screenplays
Speaker 3: because I'm always saying to novelists, do you know, do
Speaker 3: you want to write screenplays?
Speaker 1: She's like, I'm just you know, I'm busy writing books.
Speaker 3: You know, she's such a novelist, you know, at a core,
Speaker 3: and I love her so much. But I do think that,
Speaker 3: you know, I have always believed that you can be
Speaker 3: successful and inspire people and get work done, and you know,
Speaker 3: do it while being a good human being. And we don't.
Speaker 3: Really I won't work with people who aren't anymore. I
Speaker 3: just won't. I refuse to do it. I'd rather not
Speaker 3: make things. And you know, we all say that, like,
Speaker 3: you know, well we don't know arshole policy, but I
Speaker 3: would even go one step further. I kind of only
Speaker 3: want to work with people I want to have a
Speaker 3: meal with. Now that you know that, I feel like
Speaker 3: we're nourishing each other in some ways. And I think
Speaker 3: the thing that I'm most proud of is my repeat relationships.
Speaker 1: And you know that's the thing.
Speaker 3: It's like, our industry is very transient, and obviously it's
Speaker 3: very project based. So the more you can work with
Speaker 3: the same you know, networks, the same actors, the same directors,
Speaker 3: the same novelists, it's a joy.
Speaker 1: It's really a joy for me.
Speaker 2: Did you when you were a young woman wandering around
Speaker 2: in London, and as you've said, you worked for these
Speaker 2: amazing guys, legends of the business, who certainly don't fall
Speaker 2: into that category, did you ever feel like prey.
Speaker 1: No. Never, No, I don't know why. I never felt that.
Speaker 3: The only thing I felt, and I still feel a
Speaker 3: little bit, is that there is somewhat still of a
Speaker 3: boys club. I think in Hollywood in terms of, like,
Speaker 3: you know, I feel like no one's handing me anything,
Speaker 3: like I have to find it, and I have to
Speaker 3: build it, and I have to sell it. Whereas there
Speaker 3: is an element of old Hollywood, a bit of a
Speaker 3: boys club where you know, you might get a call saying,
Speaker 3: come produce this, you one hundred million dollar movie, and
Speaker 3: that's that's essentially someone kind of gifting something to you, right,
Speaker 3: That's because we're all My job is to find something
Speaker 3: that and then you know, try and get someone to
Speaker 3: convince someone to spend the money and make it. So
Speaker 3: I definitely feel like there is a vestige of somewhat
Speaker 3: of a boys club still there.
Speaker 2: And do you think you're you're an outside like part
Speaker 2: of your success has been that you are an outside
Speaker 2: of both in being an ausio and being a woman
Speaker 2: and not necessarily having gone to school with the right people.
Speaker 3: Kind of although I feel very liked by the business,
Speaker 3: you know, I know a lot of the heads of
Speaker 3: the networks and studios and have really great relationships, and
Speaker 3: it always never felt like I couldn't, you know, kind
Speaker 3: of pick up the phone and have a direct conversation.
Speaker 3: And so I feel and I think that's the thing
Speaker 3: that to go back to where we started. That's kind
Speaker 3: of why I'm so ambitious now because I think you
Speaker 3: finally get to that place where people believe in you
Speaker 3: and they believe you can execute on a vision and
Speaker 3: be responsible doing it. And so you know, that's kind
Speaker 3: of why I think I feel like I'm just getting started,
Speaker 3: because you get you know, the more experience you have,
Speaker 3: just you just get better at yah, and.
Speaker 1: The thing is possible right now in a way, Yeah,
Speaker 1: exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: So yeah, do you think because I want to also
Speaker 2: ask about age and experience being an advantage in lots
Speaker 2: of ways.
Speaker 1: You just say it always. I'm gonna say it always.
Speaker 2: Which I love because I think that we're often given
Speaker 2: a bit of a trick that it's not that we're
Speaker 2: somehow getting weaker rather than stronger. Can you think of
Speaker 2: a mistake you made when you were full of bravado
Speaker 2: and young that you would not make now?
Speaker 1: Well, yes, it's a few frogs. I might have kissed it.
Speaker 3: I definitely might have, you know, anyone who knows me Mia, No, Yes,
Speaker 3: I think I made really good business decisions. I think
Speaker 3: that when I wasn't following my own kind of taste.
Speaker 3: When I wasn't, I'll give you an I am not
Speaker 3: really I like comedy, but I like fleabag catastrophe. I like,
Speaker 3: you know, what we perceive as dramedy. I'm not a
Speaker 3: person who likes to I don't watch broad comedic shows.
Speaker 3: It's not my personal taste. I watch a lot of drama.
Speaker 3: I watch a lot of you know, non English stuff.
Speaker 3: So I think when I've gone against my own instinct
Speaker 3: or when I've followed someone else's, they have not been
Speaker 3: successful choices for me. They've been the kind of films
Speaker 3: you know that that didn't work out as well. And
Speaker 3: I think partly because I just didn't, but they weren't.
Speaker 3: I wasn't the best person to be making them so
Speaker 3: I've gotten really much better at only pursuing things that
Speaker 3: I want to watch in some ways, you know that
Speaker 3: feel kind of exciting and distinctive to me. I've been
Speaker 3: really lucky because there's been a couple of women in
Speaker 3: America have been with me almost ten years. One of
Speaker 3: them said to me reasently, you're my healthiest relationship. I
Speaker 3: was like, well, we're going to We're going to change that.
Speaker 3: You're amazing. But I'm really proud of that. But I
Speaker 3: do think that sometimes, you know, it's also good to
Speaker 3: take a step back and also make changes if the
Speaker 3: chemistry is not exactly right. And sometimes you know, I've
Speaker 3: made missteps in hiring and I think that's okay because
Speaker 3: I think everyone does that. But I think again, as
Speaker 3: you get older, you really learn to listen to that.
Speaker 1: I don't have a ton of regrets, to be honest.
Speaker 3: I'm like, if you said to me, oh, do you
Speaker 3: wish you'd met your husband had children younger?
Speaker 1: I would say one hundred percent. No, really, I was
Speaker 1: going to ask.
Speaker 2: You about that, right because you and I are both
Speaker 2: old parents and in verte Thomas, I've got it to
Speaker 2: leave for a variety of reasons and God, I had twins.
Speaker 1: That's all awesome. But I was going to ask you
Speaker 1: because I know it wasn't a choice for you. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean it was.
Speaker 2: You didn't meet Steve till till you were in your late.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, we married like I was just about
Speaker 3: two and forty. We had children a forty one.
Speaker 2: But and then obviously you had but you'd also had
Speaker 2: fertility issues going on, so it wasn't a choice. But
Speaker 2: do you think there are some advantages to being an
Speaker 2: older parent like us?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's a lot of advantages. I shall
Speaker 3: tell you what they are. No, I No, I do
Speaker 3: because I have had the most amazing life in the
Speaker 3: sense that you know that the thing was going around
Speaker 3: Instagram recently where it was like, how many of these
Speaker 3: places have you been to? And I had been to
Speaker 3: everyone bar one. It was incredible. I was like, that's amazing.
Speaker 3: Like I have traveled the world. I have had amazing experiences.
Speaker 3: There is never a moment where I would rather be
Speaker 3: anywhere else than like with my children, for instance, whereas
Speaker 3: you know, and I feel like now do I wish
Speaker 3: I was physically a little younger to keep up with,
Speaker 3: you know, my crazy eleven year olds. Maybe, but no,
Speaker 3: I think that the only negative is what comes at
Speaker 3: the other side of that. I talked to my friend
Speaker 3: Mery Costis a lot about this is you know, I
Speaker 3: like I tear up when I think about not being
Speaker 3: there for something. Will I be there when they have kids?
Speaker 3: Will I be there when they get married? I hope so,
Speaker 3: and I think so, But none of us know. So
Speaker 3: I think for me that's the only disadvantage. But for
Speaker 3: the most part, I actually think, even emotionally, I wasn't
Speaker 3: ready until you know, I had them, And I think
Speaker 3: that's the same. Is the truth of my marriage that
Speaker 3: I don't think I was, you know, in a place
Speaker 3: where I knew myself well enough. I think if i'd
Speaker 3: met Steve, and I did meet ten years before we
Speaker 3: were both with other people, I don't think it would
Speaker 3: have lasted then because I had not done the work
Speaker 3: on myself. I wasn't the person that I was when
Speaker 3: I met him. I think he would say the same thing.
Speaker 2: Do you think at risk of being like, you know,
Speaker 2: amateur shrink here? That that very real? Because I feel
Speaker 2: that that's it's interesting that you said that the only
Speaker 2: thing that gives you pause about being an older parent
Speaker 2: is thinking are their kids going to have grandparents around?
Speaker 1: Are we going to you know, am I going to
Speaker 1: miss a lot of things?
Speaker 2: This age does bring you even though we're full of vitality,
Speaker 2: we've got so much to do. It brings us closer
Speaker 2: to realizing that. Do you think that's part of what's
Speaker 2: made you be buckling down on.
Speaker 3: Your health now, like making it one hundred percent. I
Speaker 3: need to be around for them one hundred percent. I mean,
Speaker 3: it shouldn't have to be the thing that made me
Speaker 3: realize that, truthfully, but it is one hundred percent. I
Speaker 3: think at some point I just went, oh my god,
Speaker 3: I have to do everything I can to be around
Speaker 3: for as long as I can to you know, see
Speaker 3: their lives play out, you know, for as long as
Speaker 3: for as long as I can. So that is the
Speaker 3: the truth. And also I think even when for me,
Speaker 3: I lost that kind of weight that I usually I
Speaker 3: just you know, I'm wearing jeans now you see me
Speaker 3: in jeans. I've worn jeans since before I had babies.
Speaker 3: I do love miss as they count nice.
Speaker 1: My husband is.
Speaker 3: I don't think I was doing many fans, but you
Speaker 3: know there'd be seven and I go, oh, God, I'm
Speaker 3: just you know, my levels are terrible. You know, I
Speaker 3: need to kind of start exercising. And you go, oh,
Speaker 3: you look great. You know you just had twins. I'd
Speaker 3: be like seven years ago.
Speaker 1: I can jig is up?
Speaker 3: Man Like, Siria, you're not helping. I love him, but
Speaker 3: you know exactly, it's just again like but I think
Speaker 3: for me, I feel really good right now.
Speaker 2: The rest of my conversation with Bruna Papenrea, after this
Speaker 2: short break stay with us. I love hearing you talk
Speaker 2: about motherhood because of your dynamic with Steve, your husband,
Speaker 2: right that you're the one who gets on the planes
Speaker 2: and he's the one who stays home. And that's the
Speaker 2: same in my life on a smaller scale. And I
Speaker 2: haven't been to Europe seven times this year yet, Bruna,
Speaker 2: but hey, yeah, yeah, it's still so unusual in our culture,
Speaker 2: even in creative industries. It is still so unusual.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Have you ever struggled with that.
Speaker 2: Or have you always been really clear that, no, this
Speaker 2: is what my family looks like and I'm doing.
Speaker 3: The right Yeah, great question, A great question. I hadn't
Speaker 3: struggled with it. I think he was so funny. He
Speaker 3: gave a speech at my fiftieth and he said, you know,
Speaker 3: it's great in a marriage. You know what happens is,
Speaker 3: you know, sometimes Bruna gets to travel and I stay
Speaker 3: home with the kids, and sometimes I stay home with
Speaker 3: the kids and Bruna gets to go to premiers and travel.
Speaker 3: Like it was so funny the way I can't he
Speaker 3: said it an even even funnier way, and everyone laugh
Speaker 3: because then it was true. I think I did okay
Speaker 3: with it. I think when they were younger, and I
Speaker 3: wished i'd know.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: Every time I see someone they're young, baby, I go,
Speaker 3: don't worry they don't remember anything before they're seven, because
Speaker 3: I'll be like, hey, kids, remember when I took you
Speaker 3: to Disneyland four times? They're like, no, I think it's
Speaker 3: getting harder.
Speaker 1: Now, don't. I haven't struggled with it at all.
Speaker 3: I remember going to even baby group in America, and
Speaker 3: because we had twins, it was almost okay that he
Speaker 3: was there. But he was the only man there at
Speaker 3: that time. He was the only father there, and he
Speaker 3: would have gone had we had twins or not. You know,
Speaker 3: he's just an unbelievable father. I have not struggled with
Speaker 3: it at all. I think it's getting harder because with
Speaker 3: my daughter, particularly who's eleven, I think it's a really
Speaker 3: tricky age and she's always wanted him and now she
Speaker 3: wants me. Hope you're listening Steve to Thiss and Kenny.
Speaker 3: He's very upset about it. No, but it is I
Speaker 3: think the dynamics change.
Speaker 2: And it was fourteen and she said to me because
Speaker 2: on Sunday I was like, I'm going Monday morning. I'm
Speaker 2: not going to be back to Thursday this week and
Speaker 2: she was just like, please don't go. Why do you
Speaker 2: have to go?
Speaker 1: And I get that the first in a way.
Speaker 2: She started saying that maur as she's older, whis strange
Speaker 2: because you'd think it would be.
Speaker 3: No, that's exactly what's happening to me. And they've been
Speaker 3: saying it a lot. I mean, it's like and if
Speaker 3: we do anything on a weekend that doesn't include them,
Speaker 3: you know, it's like, well, this is our time. And yeah,
Speaker 3: I find it really hard. I've actually started saying I
Speaker 3: think the other day I was like, Mummy, just is
Speaker 3: not for loopers? Is bad today? I just need to
Speaker 3: go and do the cold plunge. I just so I try.
Speaker 3: And you know, they know I have loopers. They're really
Speaker 3: attuned to it, you know, without scaring them obviously either.
Speaker 3: But you know, I do find that I'm starting to
Speaker 3: kind of have more honest conversations with them, you know,
Speaker 3: to make them part of like I'm trying to you know,
Speaker 3: the better I feel, the better will be all together. So, yeah,
Speaker 3: it definitely gets harder. We are very good as a family,
Speaker 3: Like when we go away as soon as they, you know,
Speaker 3: break from school, we all go to America because I
Speaker 3: have to work there and Steve has to work there.
Speaker 3: So we try and always do that as a family.
Speaker 3: We you know, and god, that's pretty good for them.
Speaker 3: They get to, you know, travel around the world and
Speaker 3: have these great experiences.
Speaker 1: But as moving back to Australia made it more complicated.
Speaker 3: It's made it easier in some ways because I will
Speaker 3: be honest and say my anxiety levels dropped five hundred
Speaker 3: percent because I'm not worried about the guns and the politics.
Speaker 3: That's a real day to day It's a real day
Speaker 3: to day day for you driving on the freeway, driving
Speaker 3: them to school.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: It's it's something that I think about often. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 3: we don't discount you know, I think we may have
Speaker 3: to go back for a bit and then come back again.
Speaker 3: I think it's that's going to you know, we we
Speaker 3: have a bit, most of our business is still there.
Speaker 3: My dream would just be to shoot everything, you know,
Speaker 3: American here and then I'd have the best of everything.
Speaker 1: Are you always in meetings just going you know?
Speaker 3: Yeah? And by the way, I'm not lying, It's completely true.
Speaker 3: You know. You know I envy the kind of the
Speaker 3: George Miller's and the Baslomans, and you know, the kind
Speaker 3: of James James Cameron's and you know, like just you know,
Speaker 3: build something and stay somewhere in one place and build
Speaker 3: it for years. And I have so much kind of
Speaker 3: admiration for that because you know, it's really you know,
Speaker 3: your lifestyle is so important.
Speaker 2: I want to ask you about ageism in Hollywood. It's
Speaker 2: a much discussed topic, but I want to actually ask
Speaker 2: you not about the on screen faces that were always
Speaker 2: very busy dissecting Yeah, because that's become such a almost
Speaker 2: tedious conversation now about life because the are on screen
Speaker 2: women over fifty. They're damned if they do. They're dumb
Speaker 2: if they don't. But I heard Kate Winslet who I love,
Speaker 2: I love. She's obviously promoting things at the moment, and
Speaker 2: she was on a podcast I heard her talk about
Speaker 2: how it surprised her to hear people in Hollywood behind
Speaker 2: the scenes too. She didn't name the director, but she
Speaker 2: said that she had lunch or something with a female
Speaker 2: director who had recently had died ahead and a few things,
Speaker 2: and Kate Winslet was like, why wouldn't you just you know,
Speaker 2: relax into it, and she said, Oh God, no one
Speaker 2: wants to hire an old lady director and that Winslet
Speaker 2: was a bit shocked.
Speaker 1: She was like, Oh, that's so, the ageism is real.
Speaker 1: Do you find that? Do you think it's true?
Speaker 2: Do you feel pressure like behind, like in the industry
Speaker 2: side of Hollywood for everybody to also stay young, stay.
Speaker 3: Yeah kind of, I mean where I've ex where I've
Speaker 3: seen it.
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 3: So, I was part of a big organization called Reframe,
Speaker 3: which was all about finding out why women weren't directors, specifically,
Speaker 3: weren't getting the opportunities that they should be being given,
Speaker 3: why more men were getting those opportunities. And one of
Speaker 3: the things that, you know, one of the learnings that
Speaker 3: came out of that research was that it was a
Speaker 3: lot of mid career women falling out of the system.
Speaker 3: Wasn't the young ones who were just coming up. It
Speaker 3: was the mid career women, women who were had made
Speaker 3: a film years ago and then just not gotten that
Speaker 3: second break in a way that maybe a man would
Speaker 3: have gotten that second bigger break, or they'd made like
Speaker 3: one film that didn't perform and then they were in
Speaker 3: director jail, which I think women go into a lot
Speaker 3: more than men do.
Speaker 1: Direct to jail, like go to jail like.
Speaker 3: You can't get that next opportunity because you made something
Speaker 3: that didn't you know, set the world on fire. Look,
Speaker 3: I've definitely I've talked about this a lot. I've definitely
Speaker 3: found that women who are tough, like, oh, they're difficult
Speaker 3: to work with. I might no more difficult than every
Speaker 3: man I've worked with, but they're definitely I think if
Speaker 3: women aren't kind of as woman fuzzy as people want
Speaker 3: them to be, that's definitely the case. We recently, you know,
Speaker 3: made a film with a dear friend of mine here
Speaker 3: Tony Jordan's book Condition with my friend Massel Lunum, who
Speaker 3: I hope she doesn't mind me saying this is sixty
Speaker 3: and there was her first narrative feature at sixty. And
Speaker 3: you know, one of the reasons we talk about that
Speaker 3: is because, for lots of different reasons, whether it's raising
Speaker 3: her child, trying to make a living, she's She's had
Speaker 3: many She's an artist, she's a graphic designer, she'd made documentaries,
Speaker 3: done lots of things. Knew more about directing than almost
Speaker 3: anyone I'd work with. But if we hadn't given them
Speaker 3: that opportunity, would someone else have? Maybe not exactly for
Speaker 3: that reason, because they might go, well, why hasn't she
Speaker 3: made a film and she's sixty, you know, Whereas I
Speaker 3: don't think they're asking men those questions as much. But
Speaker 3: actually I do feel like even that is shifting because
Speaker 3: my friend Leslie Linka Glada, who is the head of
Speaker 3: the Director's Girl in America, she is in her sixties. Also,
Speaker 3: I don't think she'd mind me saying that, and she's directed,
Speaker 3: she's for years been directing The Homeland and I mean
Speaker 3: every big action she's amazing, And in a way, I
Speaker 3: feel like she's working more than ever now. I feel
Speaker 3: like there is just such a kind of awareness of
Speaker 3: people who are really good at their jobs and who
Speaker 3: can you be responsible for these big budgets and who
Speaker 3: have that experience, And so I feel like in some
Speaker 3: ways that perception is shifting and that makes me really
Speaker 3: happy absolutely.
Speaker 2: Because I mean we've seen men in Hollywood often they're
Speaker 2: still making their passion products way way way into that.
Speaker 2: I love clean easwood, don't get me wrong. But yeah,
Speaker 2: you're like, yeah, yeah, we shouldn't all be this. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's a culture of newness. Often, isn't it hot young thing?
Speaker 1: It is, it really is, and it continues to be
Speaker 1: a qulture of newness. I think. So.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wanted to ask you before we finish, which
Speaker 2: we could have talked.
Speaker 1: I believed like we're just getting sucked.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm a question this.
Speaker 2: Well, we started off talking about ambition. You told me
Speaker 2: you are more ambitious. Actually, I want to know. There's
Speaker 2: two things I want asking. You're more ambitious than ever
Speaker 2: you've said. There is a lot of doom and glue,
Speaker 2: like people say, you know, movies are dead, TV is dead,
Speaker 2: everything's dead. It's all just going to be three second
Speaker 2: TikTok ai blah. Are you optimistic? Yeah, that your ambition
Speaker 2: and what you want to lean into can happen And
Speaker 2: what are you desperate to do that you have not
Speaker 2: done yet?
Speaker 1: Oh a great question.
Speaker 3: I'm really optimistic actually, And you know, it was interesting.
Speaker 1: Actually I just watched I.
Speaker 3: Didn't watch all of the Emmys, but I was so
Speaker 3: when Richard Gad spoke when they won but Baby Reindeer
Speaker 3: won the Best Limited Series, he said what I believe,
Speaker 3: which is like, it's not a time to be safe.
Speaker 3: It's a time to be bold. It's a time to
Speaker 3: be brave. You know, it's a time to take risks.
Speaker 3: And I totally believe that. And I think actually last
Speaker 3: what the Emmys was actually quite inspiring this year when
Speaker 3: you really look at what won, and it is so
Speaker 3: affirming constantly because the audience will always surprise you. And
Speaker 3: I've always believed no one really knows what they want
Speaker 3: until you give it to them and excite them and
Speaker 3: you know, inspire them. I think, you know, and everything
Speaker 3: in Cleaning the Bear, all those amazing shows that picked
Speaker 3: up Emmies.
Speaker 1: So I am optimistic.
Speaker 3: I definitely think what happened is a you know, there
Speaker 3: was always I said it five years ago, I said,
Speaker 3: this is the boom. It's going to last five years
Speaker 3: and then people are going to make less because it
Speaker 3: was there was an explosion of content. I don't think
Speaker 3: that's true of our business. I think all business is
Speaker 3: contracting slightly. So I think we all have to be
Speaker 3: you know, we're all kind of tightening our purse strings
Speaker 3: and trying to be responsible and you know, just trying
Speaker 3: to I certainly want to run a business that you know,
Speaker 3: can survive through time.
Speaker 1: And so I'm optimistic.
Speaker 3: I am optimistic because I think that what we discovered
Speaker 3: through COVID is people really when there was nothing else
Speaker 3: to do, they just really we really need stories, you know,
Speaker 3: we need them for so many different reasons. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm optimistic.
Speaker 1: What are you dying to do next?
Speaker 3: I think the thing, you know I have this bugaboo
Speaker 3: is it's more. I just saw another one announced two
Speaker 3: days ago. You know, men can make any World War
Speaker 3: two movie they want. I for years have had recent
Speaker 3: I optioned years ago this book called Ashley's Warrants, about
Speaker 3: one of the first female soldiers killed in kind of
Speaker 3: active combat. And that's what I'm dying to do, is
Speaker 3: it next? It's just this thing that I've carried a
Speaker 3: long time, but it is so much easier to make
Speaker 3: for instance, you know, I'm out to me how many
Speaker 3: fricking things we can green light with, you know, more
Speaker 3: stories with movie stars, you know, during World War Two
Speaker 3: with men at the center, but we do not see
Speaker 3: them through the female lens, and so that and then
Speaker 3: I want to make something really big world building. I've
Speaker 3: you know, I'm developing a kind of big space odyssey
Speaker 3: and they're big costume drama because I'm obsessed with costume
Speaker 3: dramas and I've never made one. So they are the
Speaker 3: two things that I think in terms of building a
Speaker 3: big world. You know, our TV budgets are as big
Speaker 3: as like you know, some of these big movies, and
Speaker 3: so we can do it. There's no you know, I
Speaker 3: know we can do that. But that's the thing that
Speaker 3: I'm most excited. I think that, you know, is something
Speaker 3: that I haven't done that I really want to do next.
Speaker 1: Bruna, thank you, Thanks Holly.
Speaker 2: Bruna was here at Mother Maya a couple of months ago,
Speaker 2: and she came right over to me and told me
Speaker 2: how much she loved mid which obviously delighted me and
Speaker 2: surprised me because wow, she loves the show that we
Speaker 2: make for you, and she's been playing it to all
Speaker 2: her famous friends, and that makes me happy because they're
Speaker 2: a tough crowd as you are. If you want to
Speaker 2: listen to Bruna's favorite episode of mid the one that
Speaker 2: she talked about in our interview, it's called The Cure
Speaker 2: for Burnout is Cooked, and it's with the British author
Speaker 2: Catherine May, and it's also one of my favorites. It's
Speaker 2: a reassuring call to slow down and find your own
Speaker 2: way to rest, something that, as you know by now
Speaker 2: having listened to that, Bruna finds hard but essential. And
Speaker 2: I hope that if you're pushing through your own hard,
Speaker 2: hard days at the moment, you find a.
Speaker 1: Way to rest that works for you.
Speaker 2: Thank you to our amazing team, ep Namer Brown, whose
Speaker 2: favorite Bruner project is Gone Girl, Yes love that, producer,
Speaker 2: Charlie Blackman, who loves big Little lies, who doesn't, and
Speaker 2: Tom Lyon who can't get past the dry and me
Speaker 2: who can't believe I got to sit down with the
Speaker 2: woman behind Nicole Kidman's incredible hair in the undoing with
Speaker 2: Hugh Grant, Stop It.
Speaker 1: Bruna papentraa