WEBVTT - Ambition Says Yes. Body Says Nup. 0:00:10.327 --> 0:00:14.847 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mamma Mere acknowledges 0:00:14.887 --> 0:00:17.607 the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast 0:00:17.647 --> 0:00:18.407 is recorded on. 0:00:24.127 --> 0:00:28.767 What you see A capable woman that most unsurprising of things. 0:00:28.967 --> 0:00:31.567 She's got it together. She gets shit done. She's a 0:00:31.607 --> 0:00:34.847 swirl of perpetual motion, a blur of texts and chat 0:00:34.887 --> 0:00:39.327 and pinging calendar alerts. Want something done, Ask a busy woman. 0:00:39.687 --> 0:00:42.607 That's what they say. That's what you see. What you 0:00:42.727 --> 0:00:46.967 don't see is what it takes. Because the toll is invisible, 0:00:47.007 --> 0:00:50.847 and sometimes so is the pain. Some of the busiest 0:00:50.887 --> 0:00:54.047 women you know are also the ones pushing through the most. 0:00:54.727 --> 0:00:59.647 You look fine to me, people say as they observe her, moving, fixing, caring, sorting. 0:01:00.367 --> 0:01:04.567 But what's underneath the unending motion for some a tactical 0:01:04.607 --> 0:01:09.607 battle with a wily enemy. The careful scheduling, the relentless appointments, 0:01:10.007 --> 0:01:13.967 a search for the latest cure, the supplements, the meds, 0:01:14.007 --> 0:01:18.447 the strict sleep rules often broken, the carefully counted spoons, 0:01:18.927 --> 0:01:24.487 portions of energy carefully spent, the payoffs, the collapse, the rebuild. 0:01:25.647 --> 0:01:28.887 By mid Often our bodies have found new and dastardly 0:01:28.967 --> 0:01:32.047 ways of getting our attention. If you won't slowed down, 0:01:32.207 --> 0:01:34.647 they mutter, as our hormones rage, I. 0:01:34.607 --> 0:01:36.447 Will put you on your ass. 0:01:37.247 --> 0:01:41.047 But our minds they're not slowing. They're pumping creativities up. 0:01:41.367 --> 0:01:45.247 Wisdom is surging. For many, energy is returning after being 0:01:45.287 --> 0:01:46.847 handed to others for so long. 0:01:47.127 --> 0:01:50.927 We don't want to lie down. And yet women living. 0:01:50.647 --> 0:01:55.607 With invisible, quiet, chronic conditions are in a constant conflict 0:01:55.647 --> 0:01:56.327 with how much. 0:01:56.207 --> 0:01:58.007 Their bodies must cost them. 0:01:58.287 --> 0:02:02.807 They're ambition perhaps that time with the kids, maybe, but 0:02:02.887 --> 0:02:07.007 most likely not the work, the caring. It gets done 0:02:07.247 --> 0:02:11.607 because busy driven women do, even when their bodies are shouting. 0:02:12.287 --> 0:02:15.367 Don't hello. 0:02:15.527 --> 0:02:20.207 I'm Holly Wainwright and I am mid midlife, mid family, 0:02:20.567 --> 0:02:25.287 mid strive. Today I'm talking about ambition with one of 0:02:25.287 --> 0:02:29.647 the most successful Australian women in Hollywood. But it's not 0:02:29.687 --> 0:02:32.287 a simple story because, as she might have gathered from 0:02:32.327 --> 0:02:37.127 today's introduction, Bruna pap Andrea's success and it's significant success 0:02:37.167 --> 0:02:39.567 she runs through a production company. She is the woman 0:02:39.687 --> 0:02:43.207 behind movies like Wild and Gone Girl and The Dry 0:02:43.327 --> 0:02:46.247 and TV shows like Big Little Lies and The Undoing, 0:02:46.287 --> 0:02:49.687 and of course Strife, which was Mia Friedman's memoir brought 0:02:49.687 --> 0:02:53.087 to life. All this success comes despite of or she 0:02:53.207 --> 0:02:55.287 might suggest, because of the fact she. 0:02:55.327 --> 0:02:56.247 Lives with lupus. 0:02:56.927 --> 0:03:01.127 Lupus is a chronic autoimmune disease, and like other forms 0:03:01.127 --> 0:03:05.447 of insidious invisible illnesses and conditions, it makes everything harder 0:03:06.207 --> 0:03:08.807 for Brunna, who lives in Sydney with her family now 0:03:08.847 --> 0:03:11.287 but has lived and still works all over the world. 0:03:11.807 --> 0:03:13.967 It means that some days getting out of bed is 0:03:14.127 --> 0:03:19.127 almost impossible, and every morning she wakes with pain. It 0:03:19.247 --> 0:03:21.367 means for Bruna that she has to watch her diet 0:03:21.447 --> 0:03:23.967 her stress levels. Not that easy when you employ whole 0:03:23.967 --> 0:03:26.887 crews of people and are juggling multimillion dollar budgets. 0:03:27.127 --> 0:03:28.527 That having her longed. 0:03:28.167 --> 0:03:31.527 For kids was difficult, That she's always trialing new treatments, 0:03:31.567 --> 0:03:35.647 always hoping for a cure, always dreading an escalation. But 0:03:35.727 --> 0:03:38.487 the thing is, Bruna is the least self pitying person 0:03:38.527 --> 0:03:42.087 you can imagine. She is intensely driven, an enormous fun. 0:03:42.487 --> 0:03:44.367 She thinks that the things that have challenged her from 0:03:44.367 --> 0:03:47.287 a childhood growing up in housing commission to her loopus 0:03:47.567 --> 0:03:48.567 are actually. 0:03:48.207 --> 0:03:50.007 The superpowers that drive her. 0:03:50.687 --> 0:03:52.727 And the reason I was so keen to get her 0:03:52.727 --> 0:03:55.207 on the mid is because I'm fascinated by two things 0:03:55.247 --> 0:03:57.287 that Bruna is in a unique place to tell me. 0:03:57.887 --> 0:04:01.647 Does ambition dissipate or intensify in midlife when you've already 0:04:01.687 --> 0:04:04.887 achieved so much? And how do you do all that 0:04:04.927 --> 0:04:08.567 she does when you live in chronic discomfort? The last 0:04:08.567 --> 0:04:11.367 bit I knew would resonate with so many of you listening, 0:04:11.447 --> 0:04:13.487 because although you might not be hanging out with movie 0:04:13.527 --> 0:04:15.687 stars in Hollywood, I don't know your life. 0:04:15.727 --> 0:04:16.327 Maybe you are. 0:04:16.727 --> 0:04:21.407 It's perfectly possible and likely considering a very large percentage 0:04:21.407 --> 0:04:24.647 of midlife women do live with a conditioned disability or 0:04:24.647 --> 0:04:29.047 illness that make sure every day a sometimes insurmountable challenge. 0:04:29.287 --> 0:04:30.487 This one is for you. 0:04:33.087 --> 0:04:41.207 Welcome to mid the irrepressible Bruna Papenrea Bruna Holly. To 0:04:41.327 --> 0:04:44.007 prepare for this chat today, I went back and listened 0:04:44.007 --> 0:04:45.847 to the chat you did with mea on No Filter 0:04:45.967 --> 0:04:48.407 a while ago. Now, and we'll put a link in 0:04:48.407 --> 0:04:49.927 the show notes to it so people can listen. 0:04:50.007 --> 0:04:50.927 Yeah, it was. 0:04:50.887 --> 0:04:54.807 Pre pandemic, you were living in La Still. Yeah, you 0:04:55.007 --> 0:04:59.367 had just I think finished filming Big Little Lies the 0:04:59.447 --> 0:05:00.207 first season. 0:05:00.607 --> 0:05:02.767 Wow, Yes it was it was back then, and I 0:05:02.807 --> 0:05:08.407 think it was your first TV adaptation. Yes, right, Since 0:05:08.447 --> 0:05:11.047 that interview, I went and did my little, very in 0:05:11.127 --> 0:05:16.327 depth IMDb research. You have apparently brought around sixteen other 0:05:16.407 --> 0:05:20.367 projects all the way to the screen, which include movies 0:05:20.447 --> 0:05:23.207 like The Dry of Course, and lots more TV shows 0:05:23.607 --> 0:05:24.327 you were saying. 0:05:24.087 --> 0:05:25.727 In that interview, I want to do more of those. Yeah, 0:05:25.767 --> 0:05:28.167 And of course you have the undoing I'm Perfect, Strangers Lost, 0:05:28.247 --> 0:05:29.167 Vas Balance, Hut, and. 0:05:29.127 --> 0:05:32.207 Of course Strife. Yes, the adaptation of Me is memoir. 0:05:33.047 --> 0:05:38.047 You've also moved your family back to Australia, and I'm 0:05:38.087 --> 0:05:41.607 tired just saying all of those things, which is why 0:05:41.647 --> 0:05:45.727 I wanted to talk to you about work, ambition and 0:05:45.927 --> 0:05:48.367 just leaning into it at this phase of our lives. 0:05:48.407 --> 0:05:51.007 Do you feel as ambitious now as you did at 0:05:51.007 --> 0:05:51.527 twenty five? 0:05:53.087 --> 0:05:55.767 Yes, I would say I feel more ambitious now, actually 0:05:55.887 --> 0:05:58.727 much more. I'd say I'm more ambitious in this moment 0:05:58.767 --> 0:06:00.087 in time than I've ever been. 0:06:00.727 --> 0:06:01.647 Why do you think that is? 0:06:02.687 --> 0:06:06.007 I think because I feel I mean, I've heard it 0:06:06.047 --> 0:06:08.327 talked about a lot on your show. Actually, because I 0:06:08.367 --> 0:06:12.847 think what I did realize when I was younger is 0:06:12.887 --> 0:06:15.647 that you know, it kind of sneaks up on you, 0:06:15.807 --> 0:06:18.247 like not the knowledge that the you know, kind of 0:06:18.247 --> 0:06:22.127 institutional knowledge that you know we all learn and then carry. 0:06:22.967 --> 0:06:26.767 And I feel like I know more, I know my 0:06:27.087 --> 0:06:30.527 taste more, I know more, I have bit bigger relationships. 0:06:30.567 --> 0:06:35.167 So I feel really just emboldened and kind of on fire. 0:06:35.247 --> 0:06:38.607 And like I think that's a sad thing about getting older. 0:06:38.647 --> 0:06:39.927 That's the good thing about getting older. 0:06:39.927 --> 0:06:42.487 But what's hard is like your body is getting older, 0:06:42.647 --> 0:06:46.927 particularly as you go into menopause, but you've never felt 0:06:47.007 --> 0:06:51.567 more clarity a vision and vision itself and creatives and 0:06:51.607 --> 0:06:55.007 so it's a strange type. I also have young children, 0:06:55.087 --> 0:06:58.327 so that's also strange at fifty three to have young children. 0:06:58.407 --> 0:06:58.687 Still. 0:06:59.007 --> 0:07:01.527 You and Iron similar boats with Matt. We were both 0:07:01.767 --> 0:07:05.327 late as it were. Do you think though, when you 0:07:05.367 --> 0:07:08.047 think about how your ambition and your drive has morphed, 0:07:08.047 --> 0:07:10.847 because there's no way that you would ever be who 0:07:10.887 --> 0:07:13.967 you are without having also been very ambitious. Yes, I was. 0:07:14.007 --> 0:07:16.967 I was ambitious from like a kid, any kid you've 0:07:17.007 --> 0:07:19.407 talked about. You said to me or in that interview 0:07:19.447 --> 0:07:22.447 that you think part of that was your upbringing. I'm 0:07:22.487 --> 0:07:25.967 the fact that you grew up without money, in home, 0:07:26.127 --> 0:07:29.047 in public housing and a single mum, and you said 0:07:29.087 --> 0:07:32.407 that that background has made you fearless because you had 0:07:32.447 --> 0:07:33.247 nothing to lose. 0:07:33.327 --> 0:07:34.407 Yep, I still feel like that. 0:07:34.687 --> 0:07:37.167 And it's funny because some people from a similar background 0:07:37.207 --> 0:07:39.327 say the opposite. They say they're so afraid of ever 0:07:39.367 --> 0:07:42.527 being back there that it makes them risk averse. 0:07:42.967 --> 0:07:44.447 Why do you think so different for you? 0:07:44.647 --> 0:07:47.927 Yeah, I mean I understand both sides of that. I 0:07:47.967 --> 0:07:52.607 think that you know ultimately, I think that I talk 0:07:52.647 --> 0:07:54.607 about this a lot. If I was ever going to 0:07:54.607 --> 0:07:56.207 do a Ted talk, my Ted talok would be called 0:07:56.207 --> 0:07:59.247 like invisible superpower, because I think that your upbringing can 0:07:59.327 --> 0:08:02.647 be your superpower. And I think because I know the 0:08:02.767 --> 0:08:06.327 value of just not not the value, but I think 0:08:06.407 --> 0:08:10.287 I'm such a believer because I came from you cannot imagine. 0:08:10.327 --> 0:08:12.407 Like if I look now and I go, how did 0:08:12.447 --> 0:08:16.487 that girl get here? I think it's kind of even 0:08:16.527 --> 0:08:18.247 I look back and go, how did that happen? 0:08:18.647 --> 0:08:21.327 When people will ask you that all the time, Yeah, 0:08:21.407 --> 0:08:23.887 no they do. Do you have a simple like do 0:08:23.927 --> 0:08:25.167 you have a pat answer for that? 0:08:25.327 --> 0:08:25.967 Or not? Really? 0:08:26.207 --> 0:08:28.407 No, I mean, look, the answer I always give to 0:08:28.487 --> 0:08:32.167 young people is expose yourself and put yourself in the 0:08:32.167 --> 0:08:34.487 way of any opportunity, even if you think it's not 0:08:35.567 --> 0:08:37.607 the one that will lead you to where you want 0:08:37.647 --> 0:08:40.367 to be, but expose yourselves to as many opportunities as possible, 0:08:40.967 --> 0:08:45.007 because you know, working in a restaurant, for instance, taught 0:08:45.047 --> 0:08:47.767 me how to communicate, you know, and how to interface 0:08:47.807 --> 0:08:50.047 with people. You know, you wouldn't think that would be 0:08:50.047 --> 0:08:52.687 a natural progression to producing, but actually it is, you know, 0:08:52.927 --> 0:08:55.607 And I think that, you know, I do think in 0:08:55.687 --> 0:08:58.487 a creative field particularly, I've never let money be my driver. 0:08:58.567 --> 0:09:00.727 I think that's the key, you know, and some things 0:09:00.767 --> 0:09:03.087 have been very successful for me. But I still make 0:09:03.167 --> 0:09:07.327 things where I invest, reinvest in my entire fee because again, 0:09:08.247 --> 0:09:10.927 I'm not driven by money. I'm driven by you know, 0:09:11.487 --> 0:09:14.047 wanting to put something great and creative into the world. So, 0:09:14.727 --> 0:09:16.607 you know, I think it is a superpower, I think. 0:09:16.767 --> 0:09:18.567 I mean, I worry a bit for my kids actually, 0:09:18.567 --> 0:09:20.167 because they're going to go very differently to how I 0:09:20.207 --> 0:09:23.567 grew up. You know, I remember my first you know, 0:09:24.007 --> 0:09:26.087 borrowing money to buy my first thousand dollar car. I 0:09:26.087 --> 0:09:30.127 remember buying my first five thousand dollar car. I really 0:09:30.167 --> 0:09:32.767 remember buying my first brand new car and the sense 0:09:32.807 --> 0:09:34.287 of achievement I had from that. 0:09:35.047 --> 0:09:37.207 So I think that that's the kind of superpower I'm 0:09:37.207 --> 0:09:37.687 talking about. 0:09:37.727 --> 0:09:41.127 I think it drives you in a way because we're survivors, right, 0:09:41.487 --> 0:09:42.567 you have to survive. 0:09:42.647 --> 0:09:43.487 It's you know. 0:09:43.847 --> 0:09:45.367 I think it's very different when you have to make 0:09:45.407 --> 0:09:50.887 a decision based on paying bills other than you know, 0:09:51.287 --> 0:09:54.167 or just like based on sometimes people with too much 0:09:54.207 --> 0:09:55.487 money have too many choices. 0:09:55.687 --> 0:09:56.807 Yeah, that's interesting. 0:09:56.927 --> 0:10:00.727 I wanted to ask you about money because, as we've said, 0:10:00.727 --> 0:10:03.327 do you talk about coming from nothing and your work 0:10:03.447 --> 0:10:06.207 is constant risk in a way, as she just said, 0:10:06.287 --> 0:10:08.927 you know, you might have a massive success and then 0:10:08.967 --> 0:10:12.447 re and then the payback in all ways is often 0:10:12.687 --> 0:10:16.447 long term. As having money now changed you and your 0:10:16.527 --> 0:10:17.567 relationship to ambition. 0:10:17.927 --> 0:10:19.407 Still don't know as much as you think. 0:10:19.447 --> 0:10:22.047 And I'm getting no because in all seriousness, I think 0:10:22.087 --> 0:10:25.167 I have poured so much back in because I feel 0:10:25.247 --> 0:10:27.967 like we're just you know, growing and growing the company. 0:10:28.167 --> 0:10:32.287 And I've also survived through six years of a pandemic 0:10:32.367 --> 0:10:36.607 and two massive work stoppages without letting one single person go, 0:10:37.207 --> 0:10:39.327 you know, without letting a staff member go, which was 0:10:39.367 --> 0:10:41.607 you know, probably the most I would say, business wise, 0:10:41.687 --> 0:10:43.727 most stressful few years in my life. 0:10:43.847 --> 0:10:46.247 Does that say something about your priorities that you were like, 0:10:46.327 --> 0:10:50.247 we're keeping everybody together and we're keeping these projects moving 0:10:50.367 --> 0:10:51.607 rather than rationalization. 0:10:52.007 --> 0:10:54.647 Shit, this is scary. Yeah, I think it's too batch. 0:10:54.647 --> 0:10:55.207 You're not just me. 0:10:55.287 --> 0:10:57.247 I mean Steve is my partner, my husband, and my 0:10:57.407 --> 0:10:59.447 co founder, and he and I cut from exactly the 0:10:59.487 --> 0:11:03.167 same cloth. We I think would both give our friends 0:11:03.167 --> 0:11:04.927 our last dollar if they needed it. Like we are 0:11:04.967 --> 0:11:07.887 just both like cut from that cloth where you know, 0:11:08.087 --> 0:11:09.807 if there is a need, then we can help in 0:11:09.807 --> 0:11:10.407 any way we can. 0:11:10.527 --> 0:11:11.767 So I think there is that. 0:11:12.327 --> 0:11:15.407 But also I think I definitely have restructured things a 0:11:15.447 --> 0:11:17.207 bit in the last few years. I've definitely, as I've 0:11:17.207 --> 0:11:20.647 gotten older, kind of taken a one thousand foot view 0:11:21.367 --> 0:11:23.007 and I have gotten a little bit to the point 0:11:23.007 --> 0:11:24.647 where I'm like anyone who runs a business. I mean, 0:11:24.687 --> 0:11:26.807 I just have so much respect for anyone who runs 0:11:26.807 --> 0:11:29.567 a business because I think until you do the stress 0:11:29.647 --> 0:11:33.647 of like you know, just maintaining and paying people, so 0:11:33.807 --> 0:11:36.287 and I definitely do feel like sometimes, you know, through 0:11:36.447 --> 0:11:39.047 some of the more difficult times, I have worked to 0:11:39.167 --> 0:11:41.447 pay other people when I'm not paying myself, and that 0:11:42.007 --> 0:11:43.967 you know, that can just put an enormous amount of 0:11:43.967 --> 0:11:46.807 stress on your own life, and we are the lucky ones, 0:11:46.887 --> 0:11:51.047 like we have not stopped filming through any of these periods. 0:11:50.847 --> 0:11:52.687 Constant adaptation, right yeah. 0:11:54.167 --> 0:11:57.087 Rules, yes, And that's I think partly what I mean 0:11:57.167 --> 0:12:00.367 by the superpower. When COVID hit, I feel like I 0:12:00.567 --> 0:12:02.047 was okay because I. 0:12:02.007 --> 0:12:04.407 Was like, okay, well what do we do? How do we? 0:12:04.687 --> 0:12:04.887 You know? 0:12:05.447 --> 0:12:07.167 We you know, we started a fund to raise some 0:12:07.207 --> 0:12:09.207 money for cruise. We raised a million dollars for crew 0:12:09.327 --> 0:12:11.927 who couldn't work. We were able to come to austraighter 0:12:11.967 --> 0:12:14.447 and work. Steve and I are both very flexible and 0:12:14.527 --> 0:12:17.527 very adaptable, and that's the one thing I've realized in 0:12:17.567 --> 0:12:20.287 business you just have to be you have to be flexible. 0:12:20.647 --> 0:12:24.887 And in fact, that's just something parenthood, all of it, 0:12:25.127 --> 0:12:26.127 all of it health. 0:12:26.367 --> 0:12:28.447 You just have to be flexible. Have you ever been 0:12:28.447 --> 0:12:32.887 burnt out? Oh? Yeah, well you know, yes, yes, yes 0:12:32.967 --> 0:12:33.207 you have. 0:12:33.607 --> 0:12:36.407 I mean, I think the problem with me is that 0:12:36.487 --> 0:12:39.527 this is again I'm just I'm going to say I'm 0:12:39.527 --> 0:12:41.447 such a fan of your podcast because I've there's so 0:12:41.567 --> 0:12:44.367 many touch points for me, and I think one of 0:12:44.407 --> 0:12:48.807 the biggest ones is realizing that just at the point 0:12:48.807 --> 0:12:53.407 you kind of feel like you, you. 0:12:51.127 --> 0:12:52.407 Know, are just getting started. 0:12:53.247 --> 0:12:56.087 You are dealing with you know, not me so much 0:12:56.127 --> 0:12:57.727 in this moment, but like I have so many friends 0:12:57.767 --> 0:13:01.407 dealing with aging parents, parents who are dying. I'm also 0:13:01.447 --> 0:13:05.207 dealing with, you know, a pretty extreme health condition, and 0:13:05.247 --> 0:13:09.247 I'm dealing with two eleven year olds and also running 0:13:09.327 --> 0:13:12.727 a business. So yes, because I'm a very high functioning 0:13:12.767 --> 0:13:15.287 person with lupis. And every time I meet another high 0:13:15.287 --> 0:13:18.247 functioning person or meet them, even when I hear about one, 0:13:18.527 --> 0:13:21.927 you know, Selena Gomez, you know, one of the Willen's sisters, Yeah, 0:13:23.207 --> 0:13:25.727 it gives me. It just kind of makes me feel 0:13:26.487 --> 0:13:29.167 good because I'm like, well, they can do it. So yeah, 0:13:29.247 --> 0:13:32.047 sometimes I will just crash, and just because if I'm 0:13:32.087 --> 0:13:35.927 not looking after myself, which is crucial and as women, 0:13:35.967 --> 0:13:38.847 I think we do often. I think there's some crazy 0:13:38.847 --> 0:13:40.487 stat that women go to the doctor and look after 0:13:40.527 --> 0:13:43.607 themselves so much less after they have children. We just 0:13:43.647 --> 0:13:46.327 prioritize things in a different way. So I think all 0:13:46.407 --> 0:13:51.287 that combined with perimenopause and then menopause, Yeah, it's been 0:13:51.767 --> 0:13:55.687 that lupis is also, which I've really found in those fears, 0:13:55.767 --> 0:14:01.007 It's really triggered for me by hormonal changes. Right, So pregnancy, 0:14:01.487 --> 0:14:02.727 most people go into remission. 0:14:02.767 --> 0:14:03.167 I didn't. 0:14:03.167 --> 0:14:04.887 I was one of the unlucky ones that it got 0:14:04.927 --> 0:14:09.807 worse through my twin pregnancy at forty one, and then 0:14:09.847 --> 0:14:12.567 of course menopause brings on a whole lot of other 0:14:13.007 --> 0:14:13.807 so challenges. 0:14:14.007 --> 0:14:16.127 I want to ask you about what that looks like, right, 0:14:16.207 --> 0:14:20.207 because you have said, you know, you have tried lots 0:14:20.207 --> 0:14:24.007 of different treatments. Let's explain a little bit for people 0:14:24.047 --> 0:14:28.367 what lupus is if they don't know. You were diagnosed 0:14:28.367 --> 0:14:30.167 with it in about twenty ten, Is that right? 0:14:30.247 --> 0:14:30.647 Exactly? 0:14:30.647 --> 0:14:33.167 There was diagnosed literally days before I got married. That's 0:14:33.167 --> 0:14:34.127 how I always remember. 0:14:34.287 --> 0:14:36.847 And what led you to that? Like what was happened? 0:14:36.967 --> 0:14:38.767 Yeah, So I was having a lot of pains in 0:14:38.807 --> 0:14:41.127 my hands and feet that I couldn't explain. So I 0:14:41.167 --> 0:14:43.007 was having my hands x rayed and I was having 0:14:43.087 --> 0:14:45.447 my feed x ray and you know those. 0:14:45.327 --> 0:14:47.447 People who pushed through things usually like. 0:14:47.567 --> 0:14:49.367 Yeah, because I do think I actually have a pretty 0:14:49.447 --> 0:14:52.487 high pain tolerance. But it was very consistent. I mean, 0:14:52.527 --> 0:14:54.847 that's when you realize what lupas is. You realize it's 0:14:54.927 --> 0:14:58.007 just very consistent. It like, you know, the closest thing 0:14:58.087 --> 0:15:00.927 that people will understand is the you know, the symptoms 0:15:00.927 --> 0:15:05.167 of mimic rheumatoidithritis. So I was X raying all these 0:15:05.207 --> 0:15:07.887 things and nothing was showing up. And finally they just 0:15:08.007 --> 0:15:10.487 kept testing, you know, various blood tests and then you know, 0:15:10.527 --> 0:15:13.767 you get enough markers and I tested positive for both 0:15:13.927 --> 0:15:17.367 this thing good an SSA marker and the Loopers marker. 0:15:17.727 --> 0:15:19.887 Then it was clear. So that's when I was kind 0:15:19.887 --> 0:15:23.367 of referred to a rheumatologist. And it's so such a 0:15:23.367 --> 0:15:24.927 funny one. You know, if you watch a lot of 0:15:24.927 --> 0:15:26.967 medical TV shows, they're like, it's loopers. Like when they 0:15:27.007 --> 0:15:28.527 can't explain what it is, I'm like, oh my god, 0:15:28.527 --> 0:15:32.487 it's so funny. What cause is it? They don't really know. 0:15:33.887 --> 0:15:37.007 I can tell you what causes for me flares, and that's 0:15:37.287 --> 0:15:41.087 to be exacerbated. It's obviously an inflammation in your whole body. 0:15:41.127 --> 0:15:42.567 And when I say your whole body, like sometimes my 0:15:42.647 --> 0:15:46.127 eyes will be sore. I have inflammation on my brain. Unfortunately, 0:15:46.207 --> 0:15:47.727 I have inflammation on my heart. 0:15:47.847 --> 0:15:50.567 What does that mean? So so loopers? Right now? 0:15:50.607 --> 0:15:55.887 I have non organ interfering Loopers. And what that means 0:15:56.127 --> 0:16:00.167 is like it's not interfered with organ so much that 0:16:00.367 --> 0:16:02.727 I need like a liver transplant or a kidney transplant. 0:16:02.927 --> 0:16:04.207 So you have to keep an eye on it. So 0:16:04.367 --> 0:16:06.367 when I first got diagnosed, I was getting blood work 0:16:06.407 --> 0:16:09.087 every eight weeks, eight to nine weeks, just testing for 0:16:09.127 --> 0:16:12.967 it everything. So one of the you know, I suppose 0:16:13.047 --> 0:16:16.327 one of the bigger things is the inflammation of my brain, 0:16:16.327 --> 0:16:18.247 which just means white matter on your brain. So it's 0:16:18.327 --> 0:16:20.207 just inflammation like like it could be in the body, 0:16:20.207 --> 0:16:23.207 it can be on the brain. So basically for me, 0:16:23.407 --> 0:16:25.607 what that means is I get a brain MRI every 0:16:25.687 --> 0:16:28.967 year to make sure that it's stable, and so far 0:16:29.047 --> 0:16:31.887 it has been stable. And then the same with the heart. 0:16:31.927 --> 0:16:34.447 I'm on a low dose statin because it's very minor, 0:16:34.607 --> 0:16:36.367 but I just have to keep a check on it. 0:16:36.607 --> 0:16:38.687 I mean, I always say to my friends, well, you know, 0:16:38.687 --> 0:16:40.527 at least if I'm ever going to get anything, they're 0:16:40.567 --> 0:16:42.487 going to find it because I get checked a lot, 0:16:42.567 --> 0:16:45.727 and I'm pretty I'm pretty good now about being religious 0:16:45.767 --> 0:16:46.607 about getting checked. 0:16:46.727 --> 0:16:49.487 When that first happened to you and you were your 0:16:49.527 --> 0:16:52.607 careers in full flight, You're about to get married, was 0:16:52.647 --> 0:16:54.367 there ever a moment where you went, oh, my god, 0:16:54.407 --> 0:16:56.247 I'm going to have to stop like I'm going to 0:16:56.287 --> 0:16:59.287 have this is going to stop me from doing the 0:16:59.327 --> 0:17:00.127 things I want to do. 0:17:01.127 --> 0:17:02.127 Yeah, I don't think so. 0:17:02.327 --> 0:17:04.967 I mean it definitely, I still get freaked out about it. 0:17:04.967 --> 0:17:07.807 It's still kind of I'm really optimistic about it because 0:17:07.847 --> 0:17:09.607 I think there's a lot of great research. I think 0:17:09.607 --> 0:17:11.527 there will be a cure in my lifetime. Do you 0:17:11.567 --> 0:17:13.687 take you obviously, I know you've tried heaps. 0:17:13.847 --> 0:17:15.087 No, I don't take anything right now. 0:17:15.127 --> 0:17:17.687 No. For a very short amount of time, I took 0:17:17.727 --> 0:17:22.127 Predna zone and then for me personally, it helps the symptoms, 0:17:22.167 --> 0:17:24.887 but it doesn't cure you. So I felt like for 0:17:24.967 --> 0:17:27.727 me that the long term use of steroids was more 0:17:27.767 --> 0:17:30.767 of a negative. And what I found for me was 0:17:30.767 --> 0:17:33.567 that if I ate kind of an anti inflammatory diet 0:17:33.567 --> 0:17:37.447 and if I exercised, and if I kept my stress 0:17:37.527 --> 0:17:39.567 levels down, that I could keep it under control. Stress 0:17:39.607 --> 0:17:42.247 levels down exactly. 0:17:42.367 --> 0:17:43.127 It's actually the worst. 0:17:43.247 --> 0:17:45.807 I can't imagine that the stress levels that we were 0:17:45.847 --> 0:17:49.847 just discussing, the people you employ, the money, the high stakes. 0:17:49.887 --> 0:17:52.887 I don't think that, like working in Hollywood has ever 0:17:52.927 --> 0:17:55.047 been considered well, in a. 0:17:54.927 --> 0:17:59.487 Weird way, I think that that stresses I would say 0:17:59.567 --> 0:18:02.327 for me and other people I know with loopers, and 0:18:02.367 --> 0:18:05.447 I know if you stress is the biggest you know, 0:18:05.567 --> 0:18:08.167 kind of a fender and biggest stress drives up your 0:18:08.167 --> 0:18:11.327 blood pressurelood pressure, you know, is it really puts me 0:18:11.407 --> 0:18:13.687 in danger for certain things, so high blood pressure. 0:18:13.807 --> 0:18:16.287 So I actually I think I reached a. 0:18:16.247 --> 0:18:19.287 Certain point I would say, not not when I got diagnosed, 0:18:19.287 --> 0:18:21.687 but I think within the last five years where I 0:18:21.767 --> 0:18:22.807 just don't stress this. 0:18:22.807 --> 0:18:23.967 Small stuff anymore. 0:18:24.527 --> 0:18:27.527 And I think that's exactly how I started off saying that. 0:18:27.567 --> 0:18:30.527 I think that in a way, as you get older, 0:18:31.167 --> 0:18:33.967 you learn that the smaller stuff doesn't matter and you 0:18:34.007 --> 0:18:36.647 can't change things. My husband's very good at reminding me, 0:18:36.687 --> 0:18:39.847 particularly in Hollywood, when you know, look, it's none of 0:18:39.887 --> 0:18:43.367 it's personal, number one. You know, an actor's availability, the 0:18:43.447 --> 0:18:46.247 stress on their lives, whether a filmmaker can do it, 0:18:46.287 --> 0:18:48.127 whether someone's going to give you the money to make something. 0:18:48.247 --> 0:18:51.647 You know, it's not personal, it's business. And so I really, 0:18:51.727 --> 0:18:54.647 I think learned to put that in perspective. And so 0:18:55.207 --> 0:18:58.527 I've been pretty good about keeping my stress under control. 0:18:59.007 --> 0:19:00.447 But more recently i've. 0:19:00.327 --> 0:19:03.807 You know, I'm such a fan of it's like you know, 0:19:04.007 --> 0:19:05.847 years ago, when like everyone was eating kale and you're like, 0:19:05.887 --> 0:19:08.087 did K We'll get a publicist or like suddenly it 0:19:08.127 --> 0:19:11.007 was gogie berries and you're like, you know, So the 0:19:11.047 --> 0:19:13.007 most recent thing we're all talking about which has been 0:19:13.007 --> 0:19:15.567 a game changer for me, it's infrared saunas and confin 0:19:15.927 --> 0:19:16.887 I was going to ask. 0:19:16.687 --> 0:19:20.207 You, yeah, what your sort of routine looks like. And 0:19:20.247 --> 0:19:23.207 also having lived in LA for a long time, I'm 0:19:23.247 --> 0:19:26.287 sure that you also, like you're exposed to a lot 0:19:26.367 --> 0:19:30.607 of really interesting therapy is and every famous person's podcast 0:19:30.647 --> 0:19:32.887