Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Muma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and
Speaker 2: waters that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3: I think everyone does. Think.
Speaker 1: You're just there with all your people you love and adore,
Speaker 1: and you're just having champagne and you're.
Speaker 3: Like, let's go do it.
Speaker 1: Ah, life's great, and it's like everyone's falling apart in
Speaker 1: the background.
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Bitter Are You Happy? The podcast
Speaker 2: that asks the questions you've always wanted to know from
Speaker 2: the people who appear to have it all. I'm your host,
Speaker 2: Claire Stevens, and on today's episode, I'm chatting with someone
Speaker 2: whose career has always fascinated me. Amy Shark was striving
Speaker 2: to make it in the music industry for nearly a
Speaker 2: decade when it finally happened and her song Or got
Speaker 2: her signed with a major record label.
Speaker 4: You get your girls just so I can or you
Speaker 4: the entire challenges so I can feel with you.
Speaker 2: And within a year she was winning arias. She was
Speaker 2: performing to huge, sold out audiences and on late night
Speaker 2: shows in the US. She followed it up with another
Speaker 2: album with songs like I Said Hi and at the
Speaker 2: Arias in twenty eighteen. She was that artist that just
Speaker 2: wins all the awards. She won the most awards out
Speaker 2: of any artist that year. But getting what she wanted
Speaker 2: wasn't as simple as it seemed. It was complicated, and
Speaker 2: here we talk about the harsh realities of fame. We
Speaker 2: talk about money and whether that brought her happiness, the
Speaker 2: complicated dynamic of having your husband as your manager, and
Speaker 2: the really distinct moments where she expected to feel happy
Speaker 2: and she didn't. Here's Amy Shark. I wanted to start
Speaker 2: by asking whether you grew up in a happy family
Speaker 2: and whether you remember your childhood is being happy.
Speaker 1: Yes, I do remember early stages of it being very happy.
Speaker 3: My parents were divorced already.
Speaker 1: They divorced when I was a baby, so my very
Speaker 1: early memories were always grandparents. So it was really close
Speaker 1: to my dad's mom and my mom's mom, and kind
Speaker 1: of even close with my stepdad's moms.
Speaker 3: I added like three nands that were like so there
Speaker 3: for me.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it wasn't until my dad got remarried everything
Speaker 1: sort of changed. So there were some dark times, but
Speaker 1: I have some beautiful memories of my childhood.
Speaker 2: What can you remember is being like the first time
Speaker 2: you felt challenged by happiness, like the first time you
Speaker 2: realized that life was a bit more complicated and you
Speaker 2: noticed that you were feeling complicated, messy feelings.
Speaker 1: Probably early on, I reckon, Yeah, I think I was
Speaker 1: exposed to having to grow up and really, you know
Speaker 1: those nights when you're a kid and there's so much happening,
Speaker 1: you're so upset. I remember being really strong really early on,
Speaker 1: like I was maybe nine, and being somewhere where I
Speaker 1: was just crying myself to sleep and being like I
Speaker 1: just not won't always be, Like this just won't be
Speaker 1: and I just had that belief. But I do remember
Speaker 1: being like, this really sucks right now.
Speaker 2: Do you think growing up and seeing the kind of
Speaker 2: fracture in your family and maybe seeing how it impacted
Speaker 2: people's happiness, do you think that informed how you grew
Speaker 2: up and kind of the path decisions that you made.
Speaker 3: Totally? Yeah, I think that for so many people.
Speaker 1: That's why in my adult life, I've never really kicked
Speaker 1: the bucket and been like, poor me, I'm going to
Speaker 1: be a drug addict because I had it so bad,
Speaker 1: and I've just been like, well, it's kind of character building.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be the amy that I am now, and
Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I definitely wouldn't be the artist I am now.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be so many things. I wouldn't have met
Speaker 1: people that are so close to me if I wasn't
Speaker 1: who I am because of what I went through. So
Speaker 1: in a way, I'm like, I just kind of take
Speaker 1: it with a grain of salt, and I think it's
Speaker 1: really comforting.
Speaker 3: The older you get, you look at everything.
Speaker 1: Differently, right Like, I even look at my parents, who
Speaker 1: I was like, ah, man, you sucked at that, and
Speaker 1: and then I'm like, they're just people. They're doing the
Speaker 1: best they.
Speaker 3: Can with the time, with what they had at the time.
Speaker 1: So you know, there are some things I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: I won't forget that, and that's I'm not going to
Speaker 1: give you a free pass with that one. But I
Speaker 1: do I look at things and I'm like, we're all
Speaker 1: just freaking human beings still and the best we can.
Speaker 2: You rose to national and international fame with Adore in
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, and you rapidly went from almost a decade
Speaker 2: of essentially trying to make it as an artist to
Speaker 2: winning arias, coming second on the Triple J Hottest One hundred.
Speaker 2: You're doing night shows in America. You've said before that
Speaker 2: you once got a rejection from someone in the music
Speaker 2: industry which said, please stop sending unsolicited material to me.
Speaker 2: Your music is no good and it's not something we
Speaker 2: would be interested in anyway.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Do you think rejection galvanized you?
Speaker 1: Yes, Yeah, definitely need that. You need it because it
Speaker 1: builds the story, It builds your backbone, it builds everything.
Speaker 1: There's definitely times where you're like, I think I've had enough.
Speaker 1: I think I've had enough rejection. But it just goes
Speaker 1: to show that I truly do believe if you want
Speaker 1: to work as hard as it takes, and if you're
Speaker 1: strong enough, and if you really really love it and
Speaker 1: believe that's the reason you're here on this earth, I
Speaker 1: honestly think it'll just happen. Because I don't know. I've
Speaker 1: just seen it happen so many times to people like have.
Speaker 2: You seen it happen? Because I'm so interested in your
Speaker 2: resilience in that time, because there are so many people
Speaker 2: who would give up, and so many people who do
Speaker 2: give up. They try something for a few years, it's
Speaker 2: not happening. They change direction. Is there anyone in your
Speaker 2: life where you've seen it happen that they're really really,
Speaker 2: really determined and keep going at something that you think
Speaker 2: they should quit.
Speaker 3: It's really hard.
Speaker 1: There's definitely been people that I haven't been really close to,
Speaker 1: thank God, but like I've watched and been sort of
Speaker 1: in the friend group of them at some stage and
Speaker 1: being like music is just not I know how bad
Speaker 1: you want it, but yeah it's going to happen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like it's just it's just not there.
Speaker 1: But also like I've known people, I think more so
Speaker 1: than that, I've seen people be so talented but they
Speaker 1: just don't have the work ethic or the drive.
Speaker 3: They're so naturally talented, but they're lazy.
Speaker 1: I've experienced more of that than me sitting there going
Speaker 1: Juez give up. Like I've had more of those feelings
Speaker 1: like you're so friggin good, but you don't care enough.
Speaker 2: And do you think when you look back on like
Speaker 2: your own tenacity and the fact that you did make
Speaker 2: it and you've had this incredible career, what is the
Speaker 2: word you use to describe yourself? Is it a hard worker?
Speaker 2: Is it somebody who just isn't isn't impacted by other
Speaker 2: people's opinions like what do you put it down.
Speaker 3: To a combination?
Speaker 1: I think like I've always looked at like when people
Speaker 1: are like, how do you do it?
Speaker 3: How does it happen? It's like a real domino effect.
Speaker 1: But everything has to be lined up, and you don't
Speaker 1: even know if you've got them all lined up until
Speaker 1: it's happening, and then you look back and on reflection
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, yeah, okay, So I was unknown, even
Speaker 1: down to the way adore was one word and with
Speaker 1: the letter A and my name had shark attached to it,
Speaker 1: and just all these things that you don't realize you
Speaker 1: have that are just falling into perfect placement. And even
Speaker 1: the fact that I had had fifteen years under my
Speaker 1: belt playing really dodgy pubs and clubs and just going
Speaker 1: through and setting up my own gear and just being
Speaker 1: so tired, and by the time, you know, management was
Speaker 1: like you got a really big week ahead.
Speaker 3: I looked at that week, I was like, looks like fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I used to just work full time, like had to
Speaker 1: be there eight thirdy till five, had to race to
Speaker 1: a club and play till like midnight to a bunch
Speaker 1: of drunk people. And then you know, lug all my
Speaker 1: speakers back into the car and be at work the
Speaker 1: next day and look all corporate a different version of myself.
Speaker 1: And so I was ready. So everything was in my corner.
Speaker 1: So I was just like when I finally saw a
Speaker 1: glimmer of hope of like here's a little glimmer of
Speaker 1: your dream. I just really went for it, like to
Speaker 1: the point where I was I probably was a little
Speaker 1: bit hard to manage at the time because I was
Speaker 1: so this is my shot.
Speaker 3: Everyone get out of the way, no one take it
Speaker 3: from me.
Speaker 1: I'm so focused, it's wild, and I think that's yeah,
Speaker 1: everything just has to be lined up.
Speaker 2: Were you almost like not willing to settle, like once
Speaker 2: you had that success. Were you kind of so determined
Speaker 2: because you've been on this track for so long that
Speaker 2: you're like, I'm not going to let this pass me by.
Speaker 2: I'm clinging onto this. Is that what you mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, just constantly like Okay, what's next, Okay, what's next? Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: I've got this other song, let's go like, and I've
Speaker 1: got this idea can we do that? And I've got
Speaker 1: this idea for this video, and yeah, it was like,
Speaker 1: don't stop for a second. Just keep going, because this
Speaker 1: could all disappear if I don't keep showing up and
Speaker 1: being like, look, I can do this. I can write
Speaker 1: this kind of song now, and I can play it
Speaker 1: acoustically or I can Like I was just constantly being
Speaker 1: like I can do it, like let me prove it
Speaker 1: to you.
Speaker 2: And with the people around you, some of the people
Speaker 2: around you saying like this is amazing, like trying to
Speaker 2: just slow you down or encourage you to just appreciate
Speaker 2: what you had rather than keep pushing.
Speaker 1: They probably weren't trying to do anything like slow me
Speaker 1: down or whatever, but I was so hungry that I
Speaker 1: constantly thought someone was going to take it away from you.
Speaker 1: So yeah, if they weren't working at the pace that
Speaker 1: I wanted to work at, was like, what's up?
Speaker 3: You're not all in on this?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: You like you know whereas I came into the industry,
Speaker 1: didn't know anything, working with people who had been in
Speaker 1: the industry their whole life twenty thirty years or whatever,
Speaker 1: and they're looking at it like, yeah, you just need
Speaker 1: to let's sit and chill and don't do an album yet,
Speaker 1: do an EP. And I'm like, why would I do
Speaker 1: an album? I have the songs and getting all, you know, frustrated.
Speaker 1: If I look back now and I'm like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: feel in a better place now, but I definitely know
Speaker 1: I wasn't in that place at the start.
Speaker 2: Now, when you look back and you think about when
Speaker 2: you were pitching songs and putting yourself out there, do
Speaker 2: you remember the names of the.
Speaker 3: People who turned you like, yeah, turn it back.
Speaker 2: On you, And do you hold grudges?
Speaker 1: Uh? I think I felt like this big weight off
Speaker 1: my shoulders and it sounds really silly and poetic, but
Speaker 1: once I released I said, Hi, I feel like that
Speaker 1: song had a lot of bitterness and a lot of
Speaker 1: anger in it. And I always feel free after I
Speaker 1: release something and I'm like, they'll hear it, and then
Speaker 1: I think that's I saw an interview with Taylor once
Speaker 1: and it was really I really felt what she meant
Speaker 1: when she said I'm so happy that my songs get heard.
Speaker 1: She goes, that's the coolest thing about my job is
Speaker 1: that now I know my songs will get heard. And
Speaker 1: for years I remember watching that when I was still
Speaker 1: on the grind and I was like, yeah, it must
Speaker 1: be amazing, because all mind of falling on like the
Speaker 1: seven people on MySpace, So just no traction then, And
Speaker 1: now I get what she means. I'm like, it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter what I put out, it's going to get heard.
Speaker 1: And it's the best feeling ever.
Speaker 2: And I think you probably have a totally different level
Speaker 2: of appreciation for it because you were kind of a
Speaker 2: fully formed human by the time that all that success
Speaker 2: found you, and you knew what it was like for
Speaker 2: it to not come easily totally like it's probably a
Speaker 2: really I don't know, it probably does a lot to
Speaker 2: make you a better human having been through all those
Speaker 2: years when you had all the success with Adore, you
Speaker 2: did the Late Late Show with James cordon and the
Speaker 2: Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. I don't know why those
Speaker 2: just seem so terrifying to me, Like out of just
Speaker 2: all the things you've done, I don't know why the
Speaker 2: image of that, like I just that would just be
Speaker 2: so scary. What were those nights? Like, what are you feeling?
Speaker 2: What are you experiencing?
Speaker 3: Like terrifying?
Speaker 1: They really are. James Corden was different because that was
Speaker 1: the first one and everything was feeling really good and
Speaker 1: I didn't have time to get nervous. I kind of
Speaker 1: was just rolling out everything and yeah, it was like
Speaker 1: one of the very first things I got offered. So
Speaker 1: I was literally like quit my job. And then I
Speaker 1: was on The Lach Show with James Gordon. It was
Speaker 1: so stupid. And then by the time I did Jimmy Fallon,
Speaker 1: I remember I was really tired. I was on a
Speaker 1: tour and just wasn't in the best place with the
Speaker 1: whole team and with everything. It's a mixture of things,
Speaker 1: and I honestly just didn't want.
Speaker 3: To do it.
Speaker 1: I just felt so nervous, and I felt so much pressure,
Speaker 1: and I wasn't happy, and I was tired and just
Speaker 1: all the things and still managed to do it. I
Speaker 1: think everyone does think you're just there with all your
Speaker 1: people you love and adore, and you're just having champagne
Speaker 1: and you're like.
Speaker 3: Let's go do it.
Speaker 1: Oh, life's great, and it's like everyone's falling apart in
Speaker 1: the background.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you forget that even when people are having those
Speaker 2: experiences that you watch from a distance and think, oh
Speaker 2: my god, it's a fairy tale, yeah coming true, that
Speaker 2: there's still all the normal tensions of life happening totally
Speaker 2: behind the scenes. And you then went on to have
Speaker 2: two years of huge like being the Golden Girl at
Speaker 2: the Arias, And I want to ask about that because
Speaker 2: that must be a little bit similar in from the outside,
Speaker 2: everybody is watching it. You look absolutely beautiful. You are
Speaker 2: just like you're ecstatic, you're giving acceptance speeches. Everything is
Speaker 2: looking amazing. What's the behind the scenes like of something
Speaker 2: like the Arias?
Speaker 1: The Arias is like kind of work which people don't understand. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but that's why, like all my friends are like take
Speaker 1: me or have some champers and we'll.
Speaker 3: It's just not like that. It's it's a work night.
Speaker 1: Like even the very first Arias I went to, I
Speaker 1: wasn't even nominated, and I spoke that's where I met
Speaker 1: Dan Hume, who's done so much of the production for
Speaker 1: my records. And you're constantly meeting people who you may
Speaker 1: want to work with or so you're always on you know,
Speaker 1: it's not like I'm there just like getting lit in
Speaker 1: celebrating the album.
Speaker 3: It's not really a night.
Speaker 1: It is a night to do that, but it's also
Speaker 1: a night to be prepared if you do win something.
Speaker 1: And there's red carpets and I hate, I hate, like
Speaker 1: I hate people looking at me. I think it comes
Speaker 1: from I don't usually wear dresses and things like that.
Speaker 1: It's only for very special events. And if I ever
Speaker 1: did at my old job, everyone be like, whoa Amy,
Speaker 1: if you got a date later or what's happening? And
Speaker 1: I hate that. So therefore I've always dressed like just
Speaker 1: kind of hid a little bit. So the aris you
Speaker 1: can imagine, I'm like, oh my god, how am I
Speaker 1: going to do this? Like everyone's staring. I've decided to
Speaker 1: have a hairstyle that's very look at me.
Speaker 3: So but it is what it is.
Speaker 1: So yeah, you just have to go into work mode
Speaker 1: and just find that balance and just get through it.
Speaker 2: Is it weird knowing like going into something like the Arias,
Speaker 2: I can imagine, especially when you're going in as like
Speaker 2: the person of that year, that there are all these
Speaker 2: options in terms of like how hectic you go with
Speaker 2: like a dress and hair and makeup and all of that,
Speaker 2: that if you wanted to, you could go fullL Kim Kardashian,
Speaker 2: or you could be more authentic to who you are
Speaker 2: and somebody your fans will recognize. How have you navigated that?
Speaker 2: The idea of like having an image and keeping kind
Speaker 2: of some semblance of who you are rather than just
Speaker 2: leaning into the like being a woman in music.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it comes down to what you said
Speaker 1: before about being like a full blown adult, Like I
Speaker 1: think you can start freaking out and spiraling maybe when
Speaker 1: you're younger and you're not really you don't really know
Speaker 1: who you are yet, because it took me so long
Speaker 1: to work out who the hell I was, like so long,
Speaker 1: like I just I just like writing songs. I don't
Speaker 1: really care to look like Lady Gaga or I don't know.
Speaker 1: I also like, I grew up liking punk music, and
Speaker 1: I love when someone has their certain look and I
Speaker 1: love going to see them and they look the way
Speaker 1: they look, so you know, yeah, I guess like that's
Speaker 1: with my hair. I never really I just kind of
Speaker 1: fell into that and then I saw people doing it
Speaker 1: and I was like, that's cool. That's really cool. So
Speaker 1: that is as far as I think I go everything else.
Speaker 1: I just like to be comfortable. I think the coolest
Speaker 1: thing that my partner said when this was all happening,
Speaker 1: I was like, what do I wear?
Speaker 3: Because I've had years of.
Speaker 1: Like getting it wrong, years of like oh my god,
Speaker 1: like photo shoots where I look like a like Bambie
Speaker 1: and like just just like a not me. And probably
Speaker 1: it's my fault too, because I didn't really know. All
Speaker 1: I knew was I liked writing songs. So when we
Speaker 1: started getting somewhere and I had a really big meeting
Speaker 1: with a record label in America, It's like, what do
Speaker 1: I wear? And he's like, just wear whatever you're comfortable with,
Speaker 1: and so I just would like jeans and an added
Speaker 1: ass jacket and just put my sort of hair up.
Speaker 1: And then the guy there was like, Amy, I love
Speaker 1: your hair and I love the Adidas and I was like, okay, great,
Speaker 1: And that's how it started. It was just so casual
Speaker 1: and just the focus was all on the music and
Speaker 1: the performance.
Speaker 2: Did anyone ever try to kind of morph you or
Speaker 2: change your direction once you blew up, like especially once
Speaker 2: you're in the US and people know who you are
Speaker 2: there and you know you're probably making a lot of
Speaker 2: people a lot of money. Is anybody trying to change
Speaker 2: who you are musically or in terms of your image?
Speaker 3: Never?
Speaker 1: Wow. I think there was just sort of so much there.
Speaker 1: Like I had the songs, I'd done the work, people
Speaker 1: knew I was confident the way I looked and if
Speaker 1: I didn't look a certain way, I wouldn't be able
Speaker 1: to speak and hold the room the way I could.
Speaker 1: So I think everyone would just sat still and like, Okay,
Speaker 1: it's working, let it go.
Speaker 3: Let it go to the point where I was.
Speaker 1: Like my old manager, I was walking with him one
Speaker 1: day and he goes, I'm really glad that you keep.
Speaker 3: It so simple.
Speaker 1: It's like it's like a lot of artists have all
Speaker 1: these dress and stylists that has to travel and like,
Speaker 1: how are we gonna fit all these dresses in there?
Speaker 1: You know? And I'm like, well, I got like eighteen
Speaker 1: pairs of black jeans and I've got like thirty white
Speaker 1: T shirts and like, you know. So so I think
Speaker 1: everyone was like, look, it's it's different, and she's a
Speaker 1: bit different, but let's just roll with.
Speaker 2: This after this short break. What happened when one of
Speaker 2: Amy's songs went viral? Did fame and money make her happier?
Speaker 2: Once a door goes completely viral? Do you feel extreme
Speaker 2: pressure with what you do next? And do you feel
Speaker 2: paralyzed by that pressure.
Speaker 1: I didn't at that time, because I just knew I
Speaker 1: had so many songs and I was so excited to
Speaker 1: show them to the point where I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't want to be known as the adoor girl. I
Speaker 1: want to keep putting music out, and I think that's
Speaker 1: what drove a lot of people crazy. They were like, no,
Speaker 1: but we need to really rense this song. It's doing
Speaker 1: really well. So that's where my obsession came with, like, no,
Speaker 1: I want to keep going, keep moving, like keep up
Speaker 1: with me, just in experience. But no, I didn't.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just didn't feel I had one musician and I
Speaker 1: won't obviously say the name of this person, but they
Speaker 1: were like, yeah, I mean it's going to be hard
Speaker 1: to like back up a door, and I was trying
Speaker 1: not to let it get to me. It was said
Speaker 1: in a very smug way. So instead of backfisting this person,
Speaker 1: I was just like, you're watching your baby. You've got
Speaker 1: no idea what I have on my sleep.
Speaker 2: What didn't you expect about fame? Because I imagine in those
Speaker 2: years where you were pursuing music, you probably unconsciously imagined
Speaker 2: what that life would look like. What would people not
Speaker 2: know about the reality of being a famous, successful musician?
Speaker 3: Oh so much?
Speaker 1: That's so loaded, I feel like, especially now like I'm
Speaker 1: in album three, sort of phase, so the dust is settled,
Speaker 1: you know, you can start seeing who's changed, and it's
Speaker 1: a really interesting time for me. And sometimes it can
Speaker 1: be super heartbreaking because it's just so turbulent, like it
Speaker 1: really is, especially when you've come from working nine to
Speaker 1: five super pedestrian life and then the next menu and
Speaker 1: it you really don't know where. There's no book, and
Speaker 1: especially now music's in another whole ballgame.
Speaker 3: It's so different.
Speaker 1: Like even when I first started, I remember management being
Speaker 1: able to sit there and forecast exactly where I would be,
Speaker 1: what venues I'd be playing, where my album would come in,
Speaker 1: at all these things, and they got it all right
Speaker 1: because they could see.
Speaker 3: The stats, and it blew my mind.
Speaker 1: And now just knowing what I know now and the
Speaker 1: people I've met, and they're like, there's no rule book anymore.
Speaker 1: There's no forecasting. We have no idea what's working.
Speaker 3: What will work, what won't work.
Speaker 1: So it's just navigating every day and it can be
Speaker 1: very stressful and there's just no certainty about anything, and
Speaker 1: no one knows that.
Speaker 2: And how do you deal with the fact that, I
Speaker 2: guess for a lot of people, you can't do me
Speaker 2: music forever for a lot of people, there's kind of
Speaker 2: a window in which you've got this amazing career. How
Speaker 2: do you compartmentalize your music career and the rest of
Speaker 2: your life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a really hard balance.
Speaker 1: It'll be at a time where I'm the busiest, where
Speaker 1: I'll be like, I haven't spoken to the kids, like
Speaker 1: my nieces and nephews who I'm very close with. God,
Speaker 1: i haven't spoken to them in a minute, and I'll
Speaker 1: just almost put this pressure on myself at the worst
Speaker 1: times and never let myself relax. I still just don't
Speaker 1: know how to relax. Like it's even when we go
Speaker 1: on holidays, we're kind of pretending, like like we'll be
Speaker 1: there lying on a deck chair with a panic collater
Speaker 1: and still being like, Okay, so we'll do this, and
Speaker 1: then we'll do that too, and then we'll all the
Speaker 1: social media bullshit. It's like, it's just so so hard
Speaker 1: to get that perfect balance. And I don't know if
Speaker 1: any musician really does, but I'm always trying really hard
Speaker 1: to get better at that. And I think the best
Speaker 1: thing that I have is I'm not obsessed with it.
Speaker 1: Like I've proven everything I wanted to prove, and I
Speaker 1: think I'll always be able to be comfortable. So if
Speaker 1: it ever took its toll on my family or my
Speaker 1: relationship or anything like that, I'm happy to give it
Speaker 1: away and just move somewhere random. And I'm not obsessed
Speaker 1: with being in the limelight. I've done it so much
Speaker 1: because there's been cool opportunities like Australian Idol, like all
Speaker 1: these things, and I'm like, oh, that's interesting, and we're
Speaker 1: always on my manager and partner and myself like that's cool,
Speaker 1: let's do it. Let's see what happens. So everything's been
Speaker 1: fine up until now. But I think it's okay. I
Speaker 1: feel okay about it because in the back of my
Speaker 1: head I know that I don't need it.
Speaker 3: It's just cool to do.
Speaker 1: But if it got really intense, I'm happy to walk away.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. How has it been in terms of money
Speaker 2: changing things? Because if you're doing gigs and you're just
Speaker 2: working a typical job, I can imagine you've got a
Speaker 2: certain relationship with money and you're getting by and that
Speaker 2: sort of thing, and then you blow up, and I
Speaker 2: imagine that changes your financial situation. Does money buy happiness?
Speaker 1: Money makes some things easier, but it also causes a
Speaker 1: lot of problems, like that song is legit. More money,
Speaker 1: more problems.
Speaker 2: Like I'm always interested as somebody who can't relate to
Speaker 2: the problems. What problems.
Speaker 3: It's a hard one to explain.
Speaker 1: It exposes all the rest of the problems because you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: hang on a minute, got like a stack of money.
Speaker 3: Why am I feeling empty?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's yeah, it's pretty funny because it also just
Speaker 1: changes the dynamic of so many things because I think
Speaker 1: people think I'm like a billionaire or something like even
Speaker 1: my family, Like I'll get cent links of palaces around
Speaker 1: Europe and I'm like you should buy this, like bitch,
Speaker 1: sit out. I'm like I'm good. Yeah, So I think
Speaker 1: people and I used to think it too. I used
Speaker 1: to see people on television and go, oh, all the
Speaker 1: money in the world, they probably got private jets, And
Speaker 1: I mean you do. You're like, yeah, you work hard,
Speaker 1: you have songs that do well, you have opportunities to
Speaker 1: get to do that make you money. But it's also,
Speaker 1: like I said before, you don't know how long that's
Speaker 1: going to last.
Speaker 3: Life's long if you're lucky.
Speaker 1: So yeah, you're constantly looking at it like Okay, well
Speaker 1: that's cool for now and some people when you have
Speaker 1: a good catalog, I guess there are times where you
Speaker 1: can look it into the future and go cool, like
Speaker 1: I'll sell it then and that'll be worth this much
Speaker 1: and you can do a little bit of that. But yeah,
Speaker 1: the rest of it's all up in the air. So
Speaker 1: you've got to be really clever. You know.
Speaker 3: I'm lucky.
Speaker 1: I married an accountant, so's I've got this nerd with
Speaker 1: me all the time knowing what to do. So but
Speaker 1: I can see how people get all this success and
Speaker 1: just blow it all and get really excited and then
Speaker 1: things happen and life happens, and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you're like, shit, what am I going to do?
Speaker 2: Like I know exactly what you mean. That money comes in,
Speaker 2: and it would be easy to assume that that amount
Speaker 2: of money is going to come in for the rest
Speaker 2: of your life, and you've got to be smart in thinking, actually,
Speaker 2: hold on, I've got to be aware of this being
Speaker 2: a particularly profitable moment in a very long lifetime. Does
Speaker 2: money make life easier?
Speaker 1: Like I said before, Like, yeah, in some ways, like
Speaker 1: in the classic ways you think, like being owed buy
Speaker 1: a house, or certain things, little treats and holidays and
Speaker 1: whatever become more comfortable. Yeah, like, but the overheads go up,
Speaker 1: so you know, you're like, oh, I need help with that,
Speaker 1: and I need help with this, and they all need
Speaker 1: to be paid. And I want my shows to look
Speaker 1: like this because I'm playing these rooms, so I need
Speaker 1: production to be this. And my band's amazing, so they
Speaker 1: need to be paid. So it's like, yeah, people don't
Speaker 1: know how much things cost, like it all kind of
Speaker 1: adds up.
Speaker 3: And if you want to do something at a high level.
Speaker 1: And good quality, yeah, man, that money can like go
Speaker 1: really quickly.
Speaker 2: Speaking of Shane, you have been together since just after
Speaker 2: you finished school. What's the dynamic of having your partner
Speaker 2: manage you? I want to know the best part and
Speaker 2: the worst part, So.
Speaker 1: Loaded we could be here for a long time. The
Speaker 1: best part is he knows me better than anyone. I
Speaker 1: trust him with absolutely everything. He knows the Amy Show
Speaker 1: project better than I do. He's very smart with his
Speaker 1: decisions and that makes me comfortable. And then I guess
Speaker 1: the hard bit is learning to be like, hey, I'm
Speaker 1: also your wife. We love each other, like you know,
Speaker 1: just a reminder and we're both so busy. Like Shane's
Speaker 1: calendar is just as busy as mine, so we literally
Speaker 1: have to put it in the iCal dinner, like try
Speaker 1: not talk about work.
Speaker 2: So there's a theory that in romantic relationships and in
Speaker 2: professional relationships, you really just have the same fight over
Speaker 2: and over again. It just kind of takes a different form.
Speaker 2: What is your fight with your husband?
Speaker 3: The constant fight is.
Speaker 1: So we'll have our separate days and I would have
Speaker 1: just been you know, going go and going interview whatever
Speaker 1: whatever I'm doing, even if I'm in the studio and
Speaker 1: he's had I had all these conversations and worked all
Speaker 1: through the day and done some planning and that, and
Speaker 1: I'll always want to know what's going on because it's
Speaker 1: actually my business too. So but he's had a day
Speaker 1: and has not got off the phone and he's like, oh, babe,
Speaker 1: I just and I'm like, I just don't know anything. Ever,
Speaker 1: He's like, I know, I know, but like I've literally
Speaker 1: just been talking about you all day. And I really
Speaker 1: feel for him, because it's not just the day that
Speaker 1: he speaks about me with agents and whoever. He'll go
Speaker 1: to the pub and be like, oh that's Amy Shark's husband,
Speaker 1: or hey, mate, saw Amy's done this, it's Amy, Amy, Amy,
Speaker 1: and like I would hate me, and he does this
Speaker 1: so well because he obviously loves me very much. But
Speaker 1: I can understand when he's like, there's so much to
Speaker 1: fill you in on. I just like if we could
Speaker 1: just talk about anything else, and that's what usually I'm like, Oh,
Speaker 1: but I want to know, Yeah, I want to know
Speaker 1: what's going on, like you know, so that it's the
Speaker 1: constant because essentially we work in the same thing, but
Speaker 1: we're doing different things for the day usually, So yeah,
Speaker 1: I always hassle him about that, and he hassles me
Speaker 1: about leaving him alone.
Speaker 2: That is an interesting dynamic that like do you think
Speaker 2: he ever feels in the shadows a bit? Like, for example,
Speaker 2: I can imagine if you went somewhere like you're right
Speaker 2: because of your profile and who you are, people would
Speaker 2: be like, oh my gosh, Amy, tell me about X
Speaker 2: y Z. Do you think sometimes he feels overshadowed.
Speaker 1: Coolest thing about Shane is doesn't give a shit. Ye
Speaker 1: could not care. You won't see him at anything. He's
Speaker 1: so happy for me and he's happy that he knows
Speaker 1: he's done a brilliant job at managing me. And he
Speaker 1: doesn't like people, like he doesn't like well, he does
Speaker 1: like people, Sorry, he just doesn't like people. He's just
Speaker 1: so happy it's worked right, and he loves his job.
Speaker 1: He gets to work in music, and you know, he's
Speaker 1: got such a big hand in the A and R
Speaker 1: ring of the record and he gets so much from that.
Speaker 1: I think he's just proud, like when people come up.
Speaker 1: But he obviously he has his moments where he's like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, one more person, and then we'll go
Speaker 1: to his parents, and then his parents want to ask everything.
Speaker 1: So he's constantly just on, you know, and it's very exhausting.
Speaker 1: But when it comes to feeling in the shadows, like
Speaker 1: he's never wanted to be a musician. He doesn't like
Speaker 1: the limelight. He's actually a very shy guy, so until
Speaker 1: he has a few beers, but like, yeah, he's just
Speaker 1: not that person. Which is great because I've seen couples
Speaker 1: and I've seen guy or the wife or whoever just
Speaker 1: being like trying to sort of use that to jump
Speaker 1: start their career or like you know, they're just like
Speaker 1: I want to do something too, Now what can I do?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, so yeah I'm lucky.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's probably huge blessing that you've been together
Speaker 2: for so long, and that together before all of this happened.
Speaker 1: I honestly like, if something happened with us, that's me done.
Speaker 1: I don't have it in me to learn anyone else
Speaker 1: or to meet other parents of people.
Speaker 3: I'm tapped. I'm done, Like especially now, Like.
Speaker 1: I look at people with profiles and they're dating, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, Jesus, babe, does he know like like or
Speaker 1: you know, vice versa, like are you dating this girl?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Is she just dating you because you're such and such?
Speaker 1: Like it's it must be so hard. I'm really glad
Speaker 1: that that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't have to.
Speaker 2: Do after the break, the surprising times when Amy thought
Speaker 2: she'd feel her happiest but didn't. I often talk on
Speaker 2: this podcast about the idea that the world lies to
Speaker 2: us a bit about happiness and that often the moments
Speaker 2: we expect to be the happiest actually aren't. And so
Speaker 2: I often ask people if they have a moment they
Speaker 2: can think of where the world told them they'd be
Speaker 2: happy and they weren't. Like everything appeared from the outside
Speaker 2: to be super shiny and happy and together, and behind
Speaker 2: the scenes it was a very different story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's more just you'll have moments of wow, this
Speaker 1: is hard, and especially now more than any other time.
Speaker 1: Like I've obviously had moments at the late night shows
Speaker 1: where people think I'm living it up and I'm like
Speaker 1: crying in the bathroom, don't want to go out and
Speaker 1: play the show. So there's all those little things sort
Speaker 1: of throughout the last eight years. But there's times where
Speaker 1: you can't really explain it. You're sort of just sitting
Speaker 1: still and you really don't know what the next move is,
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of pressure and people think you're
Speaker 1: this when you're really still just that and I don't
Speaker 1: I can't explain it, but it gets really I can
Speaker 1: see how artists really need to check in with their
Speaker 1: mental health because it's just hard to put your finger
Speaker 1: on it. Be like, I don't know what makes me happy.
Speaker 1: I don't know I've traveled the world. I don't even
Speaker 1: know what a holiday. I don't know like And honestly,
Speaker 1: I had the best conversation with Tom's launch, which sounds crazy,
Speaker 1: on this boat the day of his show, and I
Speaker 1: was talking to him and I'm like, this is so fun,
Speaker 1: Like you know, we're on the Sydney Harbor and he's like,
Speaker 1: is it's like you're having fun?
Speaker 3: And I'm like, yeah, aren't you guys? I don't know anymore.
Speaker 3: I guys, I guess.
Speaker 1: So He's like, damn, I feel that way, and I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess. Like I tour so much, so the thought
Speaker 1: of packing a bag.
Speaker 3: Form of fun. It's like, huh, what, like where are
Speaker 3: we going to go?
Speaker 1: That's actually fun that we're gonna because it's hard to explain.
Speaker 1: You you associate travel and being at these certain places
Speaker 1: with work now. So yeah, Tom was like, I don't
Speaker 1: know when I'm happy anymore, and I'm like that's so sad,
Speaker 1: and I'm just like, yeah, I guess I see glimmers
Speaker 1: of that every now and then you can have all
Speaker 1: this shit and it's still like like I honestly, and
Speaker 1: then I'll go watch my niece skate and when I
Speaker 1: see her run up to me like just drops everything.
Speaker 1: That's probably the most endorphin of happiness. I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: so happy, like just seeing her happy and to see me,
Speaker 1: which is crazy, but like the littlest things that didn't
Speaker 1: mean shit before. Really, it's like that's the coolest thing
Speaker 1: about having all these massive highs that you never thought
Speaker 1: you'd have because the simplest things are so special.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that kind of image of being on a boat
Speaker 2: and him saying is it, Like, is it? I think
Speaker 2: that's really profound because someone like him and someone like you,
Speaker 2: you must find yourself in these situation where you're in
Speaker 2: beautiful parts of the world and beautiful venues and you're
Speaker 2: being doted on. Ye, And it's all the criteria of
Speaker 2: what makes for a happy moment, and the fact is
Speaker 2: that you just you don't always feel that way. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And sometimes you're just not really in the moment for
Speaker 2: whatever reason.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Is there any guilt that comes with that? I mean
Speaker 2: I know for me that there have been times where
Speaker 2: like it's meant to be the happiest moment, I don't
Speaker 2: feel that, And then comes the secondary emotion of beating
Speaker 2: myself up because I don't feel how I yeah think
Speaker 2: I'm meant to feel. Have you ever had that?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think I had that. We always talk about our
Speaker 1: wedding night because like I was so done, Like I
Speaker 1: was just like we like smoke bomb from our own
Speaker 1: wedding and then I was so happy. The next day
Speaker 1: we were off to Hawaii, and I was like happier
Speaker 1: than I was walking down the aisle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: seriously it's yeah. And then you're like, oh, man, I
Speaker 1: should have spoken to Arnie whatever. Oh I didn't. Really,
Speaker 1: I wasn't really there. I was like somewhere else. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all the time. I mean, Sunday sadness was built from
Speaker 1: that feeling of like that particular day night, I'm like,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, have I spoken to that? Have I replied?
Speaker 1: Or I haven't done much with family. I haven't even
Speaker 1: checked in on anyone. I've just it's all been me, me, me,
Speaker 1: am I God, I'm a monster, like you know, like
Speaker 1: that's all the time. I'm always beating myself up.
Speaker 2: You have worked with some really big names in music,
Speaker 2: people like Ed Sheeran and Jack Antonov, who often writes
Speaker 2: with Taylor Swift, and I can imagine you've been in
Speaker 2: rooms with some really, really, really famous people. What's your
Speaker 2: mindset going into a studio with Ed Sheeran? Are you terrified, excited,
Speaker 2: scared that you're gonna do something stupid? Like how do
Speaker 2: you feel?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 5: That the situation was really hardcore because I was also
Speaker 5: jet lagged, so I flew there and didn't have much
Speaker 5: time to get on the time zone, and then you're
Speaker 5: in your head you're like, I have to sleep, Like
Speaker 5: I have to sleep because if I don't.
Speaker 1: Sleep, I'm gonna be tired and we'll be weirdo. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be weirdo.
Speaker 3: Amy.
Speaker 1: Anytime I have a big thing like that, everyone's like,
Speaker 1: you know, just go in and have a good time
Speaker 1: and just see what happens.
Speaker 3: I'm like, fuck off.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we all want to hit, we all want like
Speaker 1: so the pressure is so on, and also I want
Speaker 1: to show people like ed that I can write that, like,
Speaker 1: you know, think of me next time. You know you're
Speaker 1: putting through these writing camps or whatever, So yeah, you
Speaker 1: want to step up and flex.
Speaker 3: And seeing him walk in was really.
Speaker 1: Crazy because it was like, I can't believe this is happening.
Speaker 1: I'm here because you're kind of you're always like, is
Speaker 1: he going to pull out?
Speaker 3: Or is this actually going to go ahead? Yeah, he's like.
Speaker 1: Amy. And then but you find that pros have a
Speaker 1: way of making you feel so calm and relaxed. It's
Speaker 1: all the fake egotistical twats that don't know how to
Speaker 1: do that, and you're like, oh, that's a bit of
Speaker 1: a bummer, but all the pros and people that actually
Speaker 1: have longevity make you feel so relaxed and like, just
Speaker 1: get the best out of you straight away.
Speaker 2: I've always wanted this. Do you go into a session
Speaker 2: like that, like cold, like you're kind of like, I
Speaker 2: really hope something comes out in this session. Or do
Speaker 2: you go in with ideas under your belt that you
Speaker 2: are going to pitch throughout the session and maybe act
Speaker 2: like they came up organically.
Speaker 3: I always have things in my pocket.
Speaker 1: Yeah, always, I'm never going in there without something for backup,
Speaker 1: just in case. You know, when you're writing a song
Speaker 1: from scratch you really like, especially with someone like Ed,
Speaker 1: straight away you realize I don't think I need reinforcements.
Speaker 1: He's on fire, which is inspiring me, and this is
Speaker 1: sounding great, and yeah, you just trust the process because
Speaker 1: once again you with a pro and everything is fine.
Speaker 3: But I always have ideas always.
Speaker 1: I've never really let a full thing go and acted
Speaker 1: like it's we've done it together. Yeah, because they don't
Speaker 1: let you.
Speaker 3: It's not like it just doesn't work.
Speaker 1: It's as like they can sniff that, like I think,
Speaker 1: so I prepared, Yeah, yeah, and usually it's not even
Speaker 1: that good, like with what you could do with this person,
Speaker 1: So you kind of just a few ideas, maybe topical
Speaker 1: things I try and not have, Like I never have
Speaker 1: a whole song ready to go. It's more just a
Speaker 1: line that I love, or a couple of chords that
Speaker 1: I might love and or a riff or you know,
Speaker 1: something just to kick it off in case I turn
Speaker 1: up and ed it's like, what do you got?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, kind of with you because you're like a
Speaker 1: big deal.
Speaker 2: Has anyone disappointed you, Like anybody that you've met in
Speaker 2: the industry and had really high expectations of don't have
Speaker 2: to name names, but have you had an experience where
Speaker 2: you went in really expecting to have a connection with
Speaker 2: somebody to you know, maybe it's meeting somebody who's an idol,
Speaker 2: and then it has not been that.
Speaker 1: Not that I've worked with, but I've been in a
Speaker 1: I guess a hang environment where I've been like, oh,
Speaker 1: ye're a bit of it.
Speaker 3: You're just not who I thought you were and that's fine.
Speaker 2: And what kind of personality traits do you notice?
Speaker 3: Just too cool?
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, just way too cool and that's fine. But
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just feel like the world's past
Speaker 1: that and maybe if you're I don't know, on show
Speaker 1: it somewhere where that's your persona or whatever. When you're
Speaker 1: in a when you're in a place where there are
Speaker 1: other musicians who are yeah, I just like, what do
Speaker 1: you think you.
Speaker 3: Look like right now?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Like yeah, it's just a bit like oh, but I don't.
Speaker 1: Really walk away going, oh my god, I'm shattered that
Speaker 1: that person has laid me down.
Speaker 3: All the people I've worked with legends and so kind
Speaker 3: and still speak to today.
Speaker 2: So when you get to this point in your career,
Speaker 2: do you experience jealousy and does your kind of benchmark
Speaker 2: of what you're jealous of change? Because, for example, when
Speaker 2: you're doing gigs, you might look at somebody on Triple
Speaker 2: J and be like, damn, I wish I was them.
Speaker 2: And now you're at your level, are you looking at
Speaker 2: Taylor Swift? I mean I want to do that.
Speaker 1: Anyone that's looking at Taylor going on to do that
Speaker 1: is a psycho sit down. It's never gonna happen, do
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 3: It's more.
Speaker 1: It's more these days, simple things that I see that
Speaker 1: I'm like, I think I wish I was there. Like
Speaker 1: it's mainly just around my niece's nephews. I'm like, oh man,
Speaker 1: I wish I was at her birthday right now, or
Speaker 1: like I get jealous the little weird things. But it's
Speaker 1: very normal to still look at someone having a massive
Speaker 1: song that you're like, that's such a good song. I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's jealousy, but it's definitely like, oh man,
Speaker 1: why don't.
Speaker 3: I think of it?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know I used to be
Speaker 1: when I first started, I was like even jealous of
Speaker 1: ah man, they're getting more of my manager's attention, or
Speaker 1: they're like you know what I mean, like needy little
Speaker 1: bitch vibes. But I don't have them anymore, thank god.
Speaker 2: I want to talk about TikTok. You made the funniest
Speaker 2: TikTok about whether it's worth being a musician right now,
Speaker 2: and you said your label. You're being told go live
Speaker 2: on Instagram, post some Instagram reels, some TikTok content, go
Speaker 2: live on TikTok, get some things up on Facebook, some
Speaker 2: Facebook reels, do some YouTube shorts, Facebook fan groups, Instagram, broadcast, LinkedIn, Tinder, Grinder,
Speaker 2: and real estate dot com. And I laughed out loud
Speaker 2: at my sister and I have shared that so many times.
Speaker 2: Obviously those last times were a joke, but genuinely the
Speaker 2: other ones are not. You have to work really hard
Speaker 2: at social media when you're a musician right now, because
Speaker 2: it's essentially your biggest marketing tool. How does that sit
Speaker 2: with you in terms of being an artist?
Speaker 1: It's really exhausting, and I'm lucky that I have a
Speaker 1: sense of humor and I can have a bit of
Speaker 1: fun with it if I must do it. But I'm
Speaker 1: also the type that I don't have anyone doing my
Speaker 1: social media because so many artists are like, what are
Speaker 1: you crazy? Like, just get someone to do it, It's like,
Speaker 1: but they won't right like me. They won't edit it
Speaker 1: like me, they won't use the same songs that I
Speaker 1: like to use. It's just so personal, and that's the
Speaker 1: main channel for me to show people who I am.
Speaker 1: If someone messes it up, if I'm not driving it,
Speaker 1: I'm petrified. That's what you choose to show people bits
Speaker 1: of your life. So it's very important to me to
Speaker 1: have a hold on that. But did I ever think
Speaker 1: there'd be so many fucking things to do? No?
Speaker 3: At the start, it.
Speaker 1: Was just like Instagram and Facebook or whatever, and then
Speaker 1: TikTok comes from along and I'm like, oh, this is
Speaker 1: kind of fun. Like I used to make videos all
Speaker 1: the time, like funny ones and whatever. But then yeah,
Speaker 1: when you add them all up, and I don't even
Speaker 1: want to say the word threads because it's something I
Speaker 1: am willing to.
Speaker 2: I think we all draw the line.
Speaker 3: I can't.
Speaker 1: I got to kill it. Kill it everyone, boycott please,
Speaker 1: I can't do it. I took myself off Twitter, which
Speaker 1: I love. I'm loving not being on that. That's something management.
Speaker 1: Just whatever I've put out, they just copy that put
Speaker 1: on Twitter. It's a nasty, nasty place, and especially once
Speaker 1: you're on television, it's such so brutal out there. But
Speaker 1: I'm going blinde It's great. It's amazing. Kyle actually said
Speaker 1: that to me. He said, I don't look at anything
Speaker 1: because I walk through the day thinking everything's fine.
Speaker 3: Things are not okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of that, you've done two seasons of a
Speaker 2: styline Idol. You won a LOGI for your role as
Speaker 2: a judge on the show. How have you found TV
Speaker 2: and have you found those criticisms different?
Speaker 1: Yeah, they go up another level, I think because your
Speaker 1: profile just goes up another level, like even now walking around,
Speaker 1: I could have a hat on or a beanie and
Speaker 1: people know my face now, like it's no there's no hiding,
Speaker 1: which is fine. Like I wasn't fine for the first season.
Speaker 1: I really I was really reclusive and didn't want to
Speaker 1: go out anywhere I couldn't be bothered. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: if someone sees me, I'm not done up and I
Speaker 1: can't bothered whatever, And then friends and Shane were just like,
Speaker 1: you can't live like that. You need to be able
Speaker 1: to go to dinner and go out and just who cares.
Speaker 1: And so now I'm really good with it. I'm just like, oh,
Speaker 1: look whatever if I look like shit, I don't like shit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So but yeah, people get really nasty on line when
Speaker 1: you're I feel like it's just because you're in their
Speaker 1: face a lot. Like I feel like I'm on radio
Speaker 1: or now I'm on their TV, and it's like, if
Speaker 1: you don't like me, you're really going to get annoyed
Speaker 1: with that.
Speaker 2: And I feel like people have a weird thing and
Speaker 2: yes with TV where they're almost like you're trying to
Speaker 2: be in my face and therefore I get to get
Speaker 2: angry at you. Yep, and it's like, I'm not trying
Speaker 2: to be I'm just doing my job and you have
Speaker 2: the TV.
Speaker 3: On, Yeah, you're on that channel.
Speaker 1: Yes, time that I'm on that channel, babe, And I'm not.
Speaker 2: Doing anything to go out of my way, Yeah, to
Speaker 2: irritate you. I imagine you've built a really thick skin
Speaker 2: from music and from dealing with rejection. Were there any
Speaker 2: criticism that came with being on TV that surprised you
Speaker 2: with how much they hurt?
Speaker 1: When it's your character, when people really think you're this
Speaker 1: other person, it's really hard to not fight back and
Speaker 1: protect yourself and whatever. And then I think the other
Speaker 1: hard thing is friends and family think they need to
Speaker 1: weigh in and you're like, it actually makes it worse. Yes,
Speaker 1: And then especially now where I really don't care, Like
Speaker 1: I mean that I do not care. You could write
Speaker 1: the most gnally thing about me and I just would
Speaker 1: not You just wouldn't touch the sides. But trying to
Speaker 1: explain that to friends and family, they don't believe you.
Speaker 3: They just don't believe you.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, you don't get it, Like I hit
Speaker 1: a stage now and I've actually been like this for
Speaker 1: my whole life. You hurt me enough, I'll just put
Speaker 1: you in a b and I'll never look at you again.
Speaker 1: And it's a bit gnarly, like Shane always says, Jesus Chris,
Speaker 1: you are. But it's how I've had to do things.
Speaker 1: And there's very few people that have hit me hard
Speaker 1: enough that I'm like, oh, okay, cool, You're nothing to
Speaker 1: me now, you don't affect me whatever.
Speaker 3: But that's what online is to me.
Speaker 1: Now. If I see a name that's like not, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't care. What if I don't care? You're not
Speaker 1: my friend on my fan you know, in my circles.
Speaker 2: What did people say about your character? Oh?
Speaker 1: Just that I'm nasty and calculated and I don't trust her.
Speaker 1: And oh what does she know? She doesn't even sing,
Speaker 1: and she's only she can't sing. She's only famous because
Speaker 1: of who she's worked with. She doesn't even like. People
Speaker 1: are just saying.
Speaker 3: Yes, outright lies, you know.
Speaker 1: And then I've also got to remember there are kids
Speaker 1: on there, so they'll be like like, sometimes I'll read
Speaker 1: it and be like, oh, that's right, there's kids on
Speaker 1: here writing the like I think it's an adult, but
Speaker 1: they're just like you suck in purple like or don't
Speaker 1: ever wear glitter again because glitter is my favorite And
Speaker 1: you're like people okay out there.
Speaker 2: And probably with family and friends, it hurts them too,
Speaker 2: Like they're probably looking at it and being hurt independent
Speaker 2: of whether you feel it. Yeah, they're like, I feel
Speaker 2: hurt because I love that person and I know who
Speaker 2: that person is. That's not who they are. It's such
Speaker 2: a hard thing to turn away from. But I think
Speaker 2: the healthiest thing is genuinely if you don't see it,
Speaker 2: it's not there.
Speaker 3: It's so great.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I could honestly be getting completely canceled
Speaker 1: right now and I wouldn't know.
Speaker 2: You wouldn't know, You wouldn't know what currently keeps you
Speaker 2: from happiness? Like, what would you say is your biggest
Speaker 2: barrier to happiness at this point in your life?
Speaker 1: Probably a mixture of workload and having a profile. I
Speaker 1: think if I was an Amy Shark, if I was
Speaker 1: still just Ames who's worked at the Gold Coast Titans.
Speaker 1: Sometimes there's things I really miss about people not wanting
Speaker 1: me there to get a photo with their kids, or
Speaker 1: can you sign this? It's weird you want that for
Speaker 1: so long. You're like someone just know I am how
Speaker 1: cool signing autographs, and then it's just that tailor as
Speaker 1: old as time. Just be careful what you wish for.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm nowhere near that, Like I feel like I've
Speaker 1: got a good handle on things. I just put good
Speaker 1: people around me, and people that I've gotten weird, I'm
Speaker 1: just I just distanced myself from. But but yeah, there's
Speaker 1: definitely sometimes you're like, oh, that's let me down a
Speaker 1: little bit, that that person's now treating me different, or
Speaker 1: and you just you can't go back. It's something you
Speaker 1: just can't flick the switch. And remember when we did
Speaker 1: speak about other things apart from the record or idol
Speaker 1: or charts or the tour or whatever.
Speaker 2: You know, someday sad you say that you're in your
Speaker 2: sadness era? What does that mean? And what is it
Speaker 2: like to explore sadness through music? Does it help you cope?
Speaker 3: It's a bit of a play on.
Speaker 1: Words and titles to be honest, like, because this has
Speaker 1: got some real playful songs on it on this album,
Speaker 1: But you ask any artist, it's really hard to come
Speaker 1: up with some kind of title for your album because
Speaker 1: all the good shit's taken. But what I will say
Speaker 1: is all my albums have been quite emotional, and when
Speaker 1: I am happy, I'm out being happy. I'm not really
Speaker 1: sitting there feeling all melancholy. So it's the times that
Speaker 1: I do right and the things that are playing on
Speaker 1: my mind are the sadder feelings.
Speaker 3: So this's just who I am as an artist. I
Speaker 3: can't help it.
Speaker 1: So the whole Sunday Sadness was just I felt like
Speaker 1: overarching theme that kind of comes in and out.
Speaker 3: Of the whole record.
Speaker 1: Even the happy sounding songs have a little emo in there,
Speaker 1: so and it just sounded cool. Sunday sadness kind of
Speaker 1: sounded cool, and the sadness to us sounds cool too. Obviously,
Speaker 1: people know that I'm not going to be sitting there
Speaker 1: crying and the light's going to be dim and like
Speaker 1: it's going to be it's gonna be rock show, like
Speaker 1: it's gonna be wild out there.
Speaker 3: It's who I am.
Speaker 1: Like that that kind of storytelling as an artist is
Speaker 1: really important to me, and that feeling of being okay
Speaker 1: with documenting sad times and sad ish stories, even to
Speaker 1: sad ish melodies and production.
Speaker 3: So music I grew up loving for some.
Speaker 1: Reason as a kid, well, I was like to think
Speaker 1: of myself as a happy kid. I really took to
Speaker 1: the kind of emao we sadder songs and voices.
Speaker 2: Even though releasing this album Sunday sadness and you experience
Speaker 2: obviously the full spectrum of human emotions, and that's what
Speaker 2: makes music so beautiful is the expression of those. Would
Speaker 2: you say that right now you are happy?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think I would.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I'm human, So there's times where things are crap,
Speaker 1: but I reckon now after being where I am now,
Speaker 1: yeah I'm happy. Yeah, it's not on brand for the record,
Speaker 1: but yeah, thank.
Speaker 2: You so much for your time today. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a fun chat.
Speaker 2: That's all we've got time for on today's episode of
Speaker 2: But Are You Happy? I hope this conversation made you
Speaker 2: think about those big goals you have for yourself, all
Speaker 2: those things you really really wish for that you assume
Speaker 2: will solve all your problems. Once you get their, life
Speaker 2: will be uncomplicated, everything will be joyous, and all your
Speaker 2: striving will be resolved because no matter where you are,
Speaker 2: there are always going to be peaks and troughs in
Speaker 2: your experience. And even if you get the thing you desperately,
Speaker 2: desperately want. It is not going to be one dimensional.
Speaker 2: This is something I'm still figuring out. I think all
Speaker 2: of us have those ideas of what we can achieve
Speaker 2: that will fix all of our problems, and it is
Speaker 2: just not that simple. That's why I really like this
Speaker 2: show and these conversations, because they show that even the
Speaker 2: people we look at from a distance and assume they
Speaker 2: have everything going through a lot of the same emotional
Speaker 2: experiences that we all are. For more from Amy, go
Speaker 2: and listen to her brand new album, Sunday Sadness, and
Speaker 2: I want to thank her for her vulnerability and her candidness.
Speaker 2: And I hope you got something out of this conversation.
Speaker 2: And if there's anyone you know who you think will
Speaker 2: love it, please share it with them. If you want
Speaker 2: to recommend anyone for the show, you can always slide
Speaker 2: into my DMS. I love your suggestions. They are often
Speaker 2: the guests that we reach out to, the ones you
Speaker 2: guys have suggested. If you like the show, leave us
Speaker 2: a review because it helps people find us and we
Speaker 2: always love your feedback. Join me next week for one
Speaker 2: of the most moving conversations I've ever had on this
Speaker 2: podcast with comedian and actor Steph Tisdall. The executive producer
Speaker 2: of that Are You Happy is Niama Brown, and the
Speaker 2: producer is Charlie Blackman. Audio editing by Scott Stronik and
Speaker 2: I'm your host Claire Stevens. See you next week.