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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Muma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and

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Speaker 2: waters that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 3: I think everyone does. Think.

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Speaker 1: You're just there with all your people you love and adore,

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Speaker 1: and you're just having champagne and you're.

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Speaker 3: Like, let's go do it.

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Speaker 1: Ah, life's great, and it's like everyone's falling apart in

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Speaker 1: the background.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Bitter Are You Happy? The podcast

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Speaker 2: that asks the questions you've always wanted to know from

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Speaker 2: the people who appear to have it all. I'm your host,

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Speaker 2: Claire Stevens, and on today's episode, I'm chatting with someone

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Speaker 2: whose career has always fascinated me. Amy Shark was striving

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Speaker 2: to make it in the music industry for nearly a

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Speaker 2: decade when it finally happened and her song Or got

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Speaker 2: her signed with a major record label.

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Speaker 4: You get your girls just so I can or you

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Speaker 4: the entire challenges so I can feel with you.

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Speaker 2: And within a year she was winning arias. She was

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Speaker 2: performing to huge, sold out audiences and on late night

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Speaker 2: shows in the US. She followed it up with another

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Speaker 2: album with songs like I Said Hi and at the

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Speaker 2: Arias in twenty eighteen. She was that artist that just

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Speaker 2: wins all the awards. She won the most awards out

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Speaker 2: of any artist that year. But getting what she wanted

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Speaker 2: wasn't as simple as it seemed. It was complicated, and

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Speaker 2: here we talk about the harsh realities of fame. We

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Speaker 2: talk about money and whether that brought her happiness, the

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Speaker 2: complicated dynamic of having your husband as your manager, and

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Speaker 2: the really distinct moments where she expected to feel happy

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Speaker 2: and she didn't. Here's Amy Shark. I wanted to start

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Speaker 2: by asking whether you grew up in a happy family

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Speaker 2: and whether you remember your childhood is being happy.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I do remember early stages of it being very happy.

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Speaker 3: My parents were divorced already.

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Speaker 1: They divorced when I was a baby, so my very

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Speaker 1: early memories were always grandparents. So it was really close

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Speaker 1: to my dad's mom and my mom's mom, and kind

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Speaker 1: of even close with my stepdad's moms.

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Speaker 3: I added like three nands that were like so there

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Speaker 3: for me.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it wasn't until my dad got remarried everything

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Speaker 1: sort of changed. So there were some dark times, but

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Speaker 1: I have some beautiful memories of my childhood.

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Speaker 2: What can you remember is being like the first time

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Speaker 2: you felt challenged by happiness, like the first time you

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Speaker 2: realized that life was a bit more complicated and you

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Speaker 2: noticed that you were feeling complicated, messy feelings.

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Speaker 1: Probably early on, I reckon, Yeah, I think I was

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Speaker 1: exposed to having to grow up and really, you know

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Speaker 1: those nights when you're a kid and there's so much happening,

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Speaker 1: you're so upset. I remember being really strong really early on,

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Speaker 1: like I was maybe nine, and being somewhere where I

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Speaker 1: was just crying myself to sleep and being like I

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Speaker 1: just not won't always be, Like this just won't be

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Speaker 1: and I just had that belief. But I do remember

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Speaker 1: being like, this really sucks right now.

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Speaker 2: Do you think growing up and seeing the kind of

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Speaker 2: fracture in your family and maybe seeing how it impacted

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Speaker 2: people's happiness, do you think that informed how you grew

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Speaker 2: up and kind of the path decisions that you made.

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Speaker 3: Totally? Yeah, I think that for so many people.

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Speaker 1: That's why in my adult life, I've never really kicked

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Speaker 1: the bucket and been like, poor me, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: be a drug addict because I had it so bad,

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Speaker 1: and I've just been like, well, it's kind of character building.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't be the amy that I am now, and

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I definitely wouldn't be the artist I am now.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't be so many things. I wouldn't have met

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Speaker 1: people that are so close to me if I wasn't

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Speaker 1: who I am because of what I went through. So

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Speaker 1: in a way, I'm like, I just kind of take

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Speaker 1: it with a grain of salt, and I think it's

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Speaker 1: really comforting.

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Speaker 3: The older you get, you look at everything.

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Speaker 1: Differently, right Like, I even look at my parents, who

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Speaker 1: I was like, ah, man, you sucked at that, and

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Speaker 1: and then I'm like, they're just people. They're doing the

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Speaker 1: best they.

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Speaker 3: Can with the time, with what they had at the time.

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Speaker 1: So you know, there are some things I'm like, no,

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Speaker 1: I won't forget that, and that's I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: give you a free pass with that one. But I

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Speaker 1: do I look at things and I'm like, we're all

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Speaker 1: just freaking human beings still and the best we can.

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Speaker 2: You rose to national and international fame with Adore in

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Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, and you rapidly went from almost a decade

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Speaker 2: of essentially trying to make it as an artist to

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Speaker 2: winning arias, coming second on the Triple J Hottest One hundred.

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Speaker 2: You're doing night shows in America. You've said before that

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Speaker 2: you once got a rejection from someone in the music

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Speaker 2: industry which said, please stop sending unsolicited material to me.

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Speaker 2: Your music is no good and it's not something we

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Speaker 2: would be interested in anyway.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Do you think rejection galvanized you?

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Speaker 1: Yes, Yeah, definitely need that. You need it because it

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Speaker 1: builds the story, It builds your backbone, it builds everything.

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Speaker 1: There's definitely times where you're like, I think I've had enough.

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Speaker 1: I think I've had enough rejection. But it just goes

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Speaker 1: to show that I truly do believe if you want

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Speaker 1: to work as hard as it takes, and if you're

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Speaker 1: strong enough, and if you really really love it and

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Speaker 1: believe that's the reason you're here on this earth, I

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Speaker 1: honestly think it'll just happen. Because I don't know. I've

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Speaker 1: just seen it happen so many times to people like have.

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Speaker 2: You seen it happen? Because I'm so interested in your

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Speaker 2: resilience in that time, because there are so many people

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Speaker 2: who would give up, and so many people who do

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Speaker 2: give up. They try something for a few years, it's

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Speaker 2: not happening. They change direction. Is there anyone in your

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Speaker 2: life where you've seen it happen that they're really really,

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Speaker 2: really determined and keep going at something that you think

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Speaker 2: they should quit.

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Speaker 3: It's really hard.

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Speaker 1: There's definitely been people that I haven't been really close to,

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Speaker 1: thank God, but like I've watched and been sort of

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Speaker 1: in the friend group of them at some stage and

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Speaker 1: being like music is just not I know how bad

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Speaker 1: you want it, but yeah it's going to happen.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Like it's just it's just not there.

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Speaker 1: But also like I've known people, I think more so

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Speaker 1: than that, I've seen people be so talented but they

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Speaker 1: just don't have the work ethic or the drive.

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Speaker 3: They're so naturally talented, but they're lazy.

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Speaker 1: I've experienced more of that than me sitting there going

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Speaker 1: Juez give up. Like I've had more of those feelings

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Speaker 1: like you're so friggin good, but you don't care enough.

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Speaker 2: And do you think when you look back on like

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Speaker 2: your own tenacity and the fact that you did make

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Speaker 2: it and you've had this incredible career, what is the

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Speaker 2: word you use to describe yourself? Is it a hard worker?

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Speaker 2: Is it somebody who just isn't isn't impacted by other

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Speaker 2: people's opinions like what do you put it down.

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Speaker 3: To a combination?

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Speaker 1: I think like I've always looked at like when people

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Speaker 1: are like, how do you do it?

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Speaker 3: How does it happen? It's like a real domino effect.

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Speaker 1: But everything has to be lined up, and you don't

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Speaker 1: even know if you've got them all lined up until

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Speaker 1: it's happening, and then you look back and on reflection

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh, yeah, okay, So I was unknown, even

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Speaker 1: down to the way adore was one word and with

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Speaker 1: the letter A and my name had shark attached to it,

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Speaker 1: and just all these things that you don't realize you

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Speaker 1: have that are just falling into perfect placement. And even

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Speaker 1: the fact that I had had fifteen years under my

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Speaker 1: belt playing really dodgy pubs and clubs and just going

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Speaker 1: through and setting up my own gear and just being

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Speaker 1: so tired, and by the time, you know, management was

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Speaker 1: like you got a really big week ahead.

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Speaker 3: I looked at that week, I was like, looks like fun.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: I used to just work full time, like had to

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Speaker 1: be there eight thirdy till five, had to race to

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Speaker 1: a club and play till like midnight to a bunch

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Speaker 1: of drunk people. And then you know, lug all my

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Speaker 1: speakers back into the car and be at work the

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Speaker 1: next day and look all corporate a different version of myself.

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Speaker 1: And so I was ready. So everything was in my corner.

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Speaker 1: So I was just like when I finally saw a

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Speaker 1: glimmer of hope of like here's a little glimmer of

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Speaker 1: your dream. I just really went for it, like to

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Speaker 1: the point where I was I probably was a little

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Speaker 1: bit hard to manage at the time because I was

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Speaker 1: so this is my shot.

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Speaker 3: Everyone get out of the way, no one take it

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Speaker 3: from me.

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Speaker 1: I'm so focused, it's wild, and I think that's yeah,

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Speaker 1: everything just has to be lined up.

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Speaker 2: Were you almost like not willing to settle, like once

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Speaker 2: you had that success. Were you kind of so determined

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Speaker 2: because you've been on this track for so long that

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Speaker 2: you're like, I'm not going to let this pass me by.

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Speaker 2: I'm clinging onto this. Is that what you mean?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, just constantly like Okay, what's next, Okay, what's next? Yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I've got this other song, let's go like, and I've

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Speaker 1: got this idea can we do that? And I've got

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Speaker 1: this idea for this video, and yeah, it was like,

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Speaker 1: don't stop for a second. Just keep going, because this

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Speaker 1: could all disappear if I don't keep showing up and

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Speaker 1: being like, look, I can do this. I can write

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Speaker 1: this kind of song now, and I can play it

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Speaker 1: acoustically or I can Like I was just constantly being

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Speaker 1: like I can do it, like let me prove it

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Speaker 1: to you.

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Speaker 2: And with the people around you, some of the people

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Speaker 2: around you saying like this is amazing, like trying to

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Speaker 2: just slow you down or encourage you to just appreciate

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Speaker 2: what you had rather than keep pushing.

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Speaker 1: They probably weren't trying to do anything like slow me

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Speaker 1: down or whatever, but I was so hungry that I

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Speaker 1: constantly thought someone was going to take it away from you.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, if they weren't working at the pace that

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Speaker 1: I wanted to work at, was like, what's up?

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Speaker 3: You're not all in on this?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: You like you know whereas I came into the industry,

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Speaker 1: didn't know anything, working with people who had been in

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Speaker 1: the industry their whole life twenty thirty years or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and they're looking at it like, yeah, you just need

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Speaker 1: to let's sit and chill and don't do an album yet,

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Speaker 1: do an EP. And I'm like, why would I do

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Speaker 1: an album? I have the songs and getting all, you know, frustrated.

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Speaker 1: If I look back now and I'm like, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: feel in a better place now, but I definitely know

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Speaker 1: I wasn't in that place at the start.

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Speaker 2: Now, when you look back and you think about when

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Speaker 2: you were pitching songs and putting yourself out there, do

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Speaker 2: you remember the names of the.

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Speaker 3: People who turned you like, yeah, turn it back.

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Speaker 2: On you, And do you hold grudges?

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Speaker 1: Uh? I think I felt like this big weight off

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Speaker 1: my shoulders and it sounds really silly and poetic, but

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Speaker 1: once I released I said, Hi, I feel like that

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Speaker 1: song had a lot of bitterness and a lot of

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Speaker 1: anger in it. And I always feel free after I

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Speaker 1: release something and I'm like, they'll hear it, and then

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Speaker 1: I think that's I saw an interview with Taylor once

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Speaker 1: and it was really I really felt what she meant

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Speaker 1: when she said I'm so happy that my songs get heard.

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Speaker 1: She goes, that's the coolest thing about my job is

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Speaker 1: that now I know my songs will get heard. And

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Speaker 1: for years I remember watching that when I was still

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Speaker 1: on the grind and I was like, yeah, it must

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Speaker 1: be amazing, because all mind of falling on like the

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Speaker 1: seven people on MySpace, So just no traction then, And

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Speaker 1: now I get what she means. I'm like, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter what I put out, it's going to get heard.

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Speaker 1: And it's the best feeling ever.

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Speaker 2: And I think you probably have a totally different level

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Speaker 2: of appreciation for it because you were kind of a

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Speaker 2: fully formed human by the time that all that success

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Speaker 2: found you, and you knew what it was like for

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Speaker 2: it to not come easily totally like it's probably a

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Speaker 2: really I don't know, it probably does a lot to

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Speaker 2: make you a better human having been through all those

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Speaker 2: years when you had all the success with Adore, you

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Speaker 2: did the Late Late Show with James cordon and the

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Speaker 2: Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. I don't know why those

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Speaker 2: just seem so terrifying to me, Like out of just

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Speaker 2: all the things you've done, I don't know why the

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Speaker 2: image of that, like I just that would just be

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Speaker 2: so scary. What were those nights? Like, what are you feeling?

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Speaker 2: What are you experiencing?

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Speaker 3: Like terrifying?

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Speaker 1: They really are. James Corden was different because that was

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Speaker 1: the first one and everything was feeling really good and

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Speaker 1: I didn't have time to get nervous. I kind of

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Speaker 1: was just rolling out everything and yeah, it was like

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Speaker 1: one of the very first things I got offered. So

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Speaker 1: I was literally like quit my job. And then I

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Speaker 1: was on The Lach Show with James Gordon. It was

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Speaker 1: so stupid. And then by the time I did Jimmy Fallon,

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Speaker 1: I remember I was really tired. I was on a

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Speaker 1: tour and just wasn't in the best place with the

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Speaker 1: whole team and with everything. It's a mixture of things,

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Speaker 1: and I honestly just didn't want.

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Speaker 3: To do it.

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Speaker 1: I just felt so nervous, and I felt so much pressure,

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Speaker 1: and I wasn't happy, and I was tired and just

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Speaker 1: all the things and still managed to do it. I

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Speaker 1: think everyone does think you're just there with all your

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Speaker 1: people you love and adore, and you're just having champagne

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Speaker 1: and you're like.

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Speaker 3: Let's go do it.

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Speaker 1: Oh, life's great, and it's like everyone's falling apart in

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Speaker 1: the background.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you forget that even when people are having those

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Speaker 2: experiences that you watch from a distance and think, oh

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Speaker 2: my god, it's a fairy tale, yeah coming true, that

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Speaker 2: there's still all the normal tensions of life happening totally

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Speaker 2: behind the scenes. And you then went on to have

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Speaker 2: two years of huge like being the Golden Girl at

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Speaker 2: the Arias, And I want to ask about that because

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Speaker 2: that must be a little bit similar in from the outside,

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Speaker 2: everybody is watching it. You look absolutely beautiful. You are

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Speaker 2: just like you're ecstatic, you're giving acceptance speeches. Everything is

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Speaker 2: looking amazing. What's the behind the scenes like of something

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Speaker 2: like the Arias?

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Speaker 1: The Arias is like kind of work which people don't understand. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but that's why, like all my friends are like take

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Speaker 1: me or have some champers and we'll.

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Speaker 3: It's just not like that. It's it's a work night.

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Speaker 1: Like even the very first Arias I went to, I

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Speaker 1: wasn't even nominated, and I spoke that's where I met

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Speaker 1: Dan Hume, who's done so much of the production for

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Speaker 1: my records. And you're constantly meeting people who you may

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Speaker 1: want to work with or so you're always on you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not like I'm there just like getting lit in

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Speaker 1: celebrating the album.

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Speaker 3: It's not really a night.

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Speaker 1: It is a night to do that, but it's also

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Speaker 1: a night to be prepared if you do win something.

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Speaker 1: And there's red carpets and I hate, I hate, like

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Speaker 1: I hate people looking at me. I think it comes

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Speaker 1: from I don't usually wear dresses and things like that.

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Speaker 1: It's only for very special events. And if I ever

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Speaker 1: did at my old job, everyone be like, whoa Amy,

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Speaker 1: if you got a date later or what's happening? And

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Speaker 1: I hate that. So therefore I've always dressed like just

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Speaker 1: kind of hid a little bit. So the aris you

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Speaker 1: can imagine, I'm like, oh my god, how am I

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Speaker 1: going to do this? Like everyone's staring. I've decided to

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Speaker 1: have a hairstyle that's very look at me.

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Speaker 3: So but it is what it is.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, you just have to go into work mode

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Speaker 1: and just find that balance and just get through it.

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Speaker 2: Is it weird knowing like going into something like the Arias,

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Speaker 2: I can imagine, especially when you're going in as like

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Speaker 2: the person of that year, that there are all these

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Speaker 2: options in terms of like how hectic you go with

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Speaker 2: like a dress and hair and makeup and all of that,

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Speaker 2: that if you wanted to, you could go fullL Kim Kardashian,

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Speaker 2: or you could be more authentic to who you are

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Speaker 2: and somebody your fans will recognize. How have you navigated that?

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Speaker 2: The idea of like having an image and keeping kind

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Speaker 2: of some semblance of who you are rather than just

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Speaker 2: leaning into the like being a woman in music.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it comes down to what you said

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Speaker 1: before about being like a full blown adult, Like I

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Speaker 1: think you can start freaking out and spiraling maybe when

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Speaker 1: you're younger and you're not really you don't really know

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Speaker 1: who you are yet, because it took me so long

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Speaker 1: to work out who the hell I was, like so long,

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Speaker 1: like I just I just like writing songs. I don't

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Speaker 1: really care to look like Lady Gaga or I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I also like, I grew up liking punk music, and

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Speaker 1: I love when someone has their certain look and I

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Speaker 1: love going to see them and they look the way

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Speaker 1: they look, so you know, yeah, I guess like that's

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Speaker 1: with my hair. I never really I just kind of

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Speaker 1: fell into that and then I saw people doing it

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Speaker 1: and I was like, that's cool. That's really cool. So

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Speaker 1: that is as far as I think I go everything else.

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Speaker 1: I just like to be comfortable. I think the coolest

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Speaker 1: thing that my partner said when this was all happening,

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Speaker 1: I was like, what do I wear?

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Speaker 3: Because I've had years of.

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Speaker 1: Like getting it wrong, years of like oh my god,

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Speaker 1: like photo shoots where I look like a like Bambie

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Speaker 1: and like just just like a not me. And probably

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Speaker 1: it's my fault too, because I didn't really know. All

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Speaker 1: I knew was I liked writing songs. So when we

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Speaker 1: started getting somewhere and I had a really big meeting

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Speaker 1: with a record label in America, It's like, what do

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Speaker 1: I wear? And he's like, just wear whatever you're comfortable with,

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Speaker 1: and so I just would like jeans and an added

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Speaker 1: ass jacket and just put my sort of hair up.

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Speaker 1: And then the guy there was like, Amy, I love

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Speaker 1: your hair and I love the Adidas and I was like, okay, great,

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Speaker 1: And that's how it started. It was just so casual

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Speaker 1: and just the focus was all on the music and

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Speaker 1: the performance.

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Speaker 2: Did anyone ever try to kind of morph you or

357
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Speaker 2: change your direction once you blew up, like especially once

358
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Speaker 2: you're in the US and people know who you are

359
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:57,520
Speaker 2: there and you know you're probably making a lot of

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Speaker 2: people a lot of money. Is anybody trying to change

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Speaker 2: who you are musically or in terms of your image?

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Speaker 3: Never?

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Speaker 1: Wow. I think there was just sort of so much there.

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Speaker 1: Like I had the songs, I'd done the work, people

365
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Speaker 1: knew I was confident the way I looked and if

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Speaker 1: I didn't look a certain way, I wouldn't be able

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Speaker 1: to speak and hold the room the way I could.

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Speaker 1: So I think everyone would just sat still and like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's working, let it go.

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Speaker 3: Let it go to the point where I was.

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Speaker 1: Like my old manager, I was walking with him one

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Speaker 1: day and he goes, I'm really glad that you keep.

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Speaker 3: It so simple.

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Speaker 1: It's like it's like a lot of artists have all

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Speaker 1: these dress and stylists that has to travel and like,

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Speaker 1: how are we gonna fit all these dresses in there?

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Speaker 1: You know? And I'm like, well, I got like eighteen

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Speaker 1: pairs of black jeans and I've got like thirty white

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Speaker 1: T shirts and like, you know. So so I think

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Speaker 1: everyone was like, look, it's it's different, and she's a

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Speaker 1: bit different, but let's just roll with.

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Speaker 2: This after this short break. What happened when one of

383
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Speaker 2: Amy's songs went viral? Did fame and money make her happier?

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Speaker 2: Once a door goes completely viral? Do you feel extreme

385
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Speaker 2: pressure with what you do next? And do you feel

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Speaker 2: paralyzed by that pressure.

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Speaker 1: I didn't at that time, because I just knew I

388
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Speaker 1: had so many songs and I was so excited to

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Speaker 1: show them to the point where I was like, I

390
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Speaker 1: don't want to be known as the adoor girl. I

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Speaker 1: want to keep putting music out, and I think that's

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Speaker 1: what drove a lot of people crazy. They were like, no,

393
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Speaker 1: but we need to really rense this song. It's doing

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Speaker 1: really well. So that's where my obsession came with, like, no,

395
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Speaker 1: I want to keep going, keep moving, like keep up

396
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Speaker 1: with me, just in experience. But no, I didn't.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

398
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Speaker 1: I just didn't feel I had one musician and I

399
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Speaker 1: won't obviously say the name of this person, but they

400
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,160
Speaker 1: were like, yeah, I mean it's going to be hard

401
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,879
Speaker 1: to like back up a door, and I was trying

402
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,360
Speaker 1: not to let it get to me. It was said

403
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 1: in a very smug way. So instead of backfisting this person,

404
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,400
Speaker 1: I was just like, you're watching your baby. You've got

405
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,199
Speaker 1: no idea what I have on my sleep.

406
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Speaker 2: What didn't you expect about fame? Because I imagine in those

407
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:30,440
Speaker 2: years where you were pursuing music, you probably unconsciously imagined

408
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,919
Speaker 2: what that life would look like. What would people not

409
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:40,640
Speaker 2: know about the reality of being a famous, successful musician?

410
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Speaker 3: Oh so much?

411
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:47,479
Speaker 1: That's so loaded, I feel like, especially now like I'm

412
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Speaker 1: in album three, sort of phase, so the dust is settled,

413
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 1: you know, you can start seeing who's changed, and it's

414
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 1: a really interesting time for me. And sometimes it can

415
00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 1: be super heartbreaking because it's just so turbulent, like it

416
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 1: really is, especially when you've come from working nine to

417
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 1: five super pedestrian life and then the next menu and

418
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:14,439
Speaker 1: it you really don't know where. There's no book, and

419
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:18,400
Speaker 1: especially now music's in another whole ballgame.

420
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 3: It's so different.

421
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 1: Like even when I first started, I remember management being

422
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,719
Speaker 1: able to sit there and forecast exactly where I would be,

423
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 1: what venues I'd be playing, where my album would come in,

424
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,640
Speaker 1: at all these things, and they got it all right

425
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 1: because they could see.

426
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 3: The stats, and it blew my mind.

427
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Speaker 1: And now just knowing what I know now and the

428
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 1: people I've met, and they're like, there's no rule book anymore.

429
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Speaker 1: There's no forecasting. We have no idea what's working.

430
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 3: What will work, what won't work.

431
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Speaker 1: So it's just navigating every day and it can be

432
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 1: very stressful and there's just no certainty about anything, and

433
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Speaker 1: no one knows that.

434
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:07,439
Speaker 2: And how do you deal with the fact that, I

435
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,159
Speaker 2: guess for a lot of people, you can't do me

436
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,679
Speaker 2: music forever for a lot of people, there's kind of

437
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 2: a window in which you've got this amazing career. How

438
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 2: do you compartmentalize your music career and the rest of

439
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 2: your life.

440
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a really hard balance.

441
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 1: It'll be at a time where I'm the busiest, where

442
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: I'll be like, I haven't spoken to the kids, like

443
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 1: my nieces and nephews who I'm very close with. God,

444
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 1: i haven't spoken to them in a minute, and I'll

445
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 1: just almost put this pressure on myself at the worst

446
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 1: times and never let myself relax. I still just don't

447
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 1: know how to relax. Like it's even when we go

448
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,160
Speaker 1: on holidays, we're kind of pretending, like like we'll be

449
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: there lying on a deck chair with a panic collater

450
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 1: and still being like, Okay, so we'll do this, and

451
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: then we'll do that too, and then we'll all the

452
00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: social media bullshit. It's like, it's just so so hard

453
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 1: to get that perfect balance. And I don't know if

454
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 1: any musician really does, but I'm always trying really hard

455
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 1: to get better at that. And I think the best

456
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 1: thing that I have is I'm not obsessed with it.

457
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 1: Like I've proven everything I wanted to prove, and I

458
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: think I'll always be able to be comfortable. So if

459
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 1: it ever took its toll on my family or my

460
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: relationship or anything like that, I'm happy to give it

461
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: away and just move somewhere random. And I'm not obsessed

462
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: with being in the limelight. I've done it so much

463
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: because there's been cool opportunities like Australian Idol, like all

464
00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: these things, and I'm like, oh, that's interesting, and we're

465
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 1: always on my manager and partner and myself like that's cool,

466
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 1: let's do it. Let's see what happens. So everything's been

467
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 1: fine up until now. But I think it's okay. I

468
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 1: feel okay about it because in the back of my

469
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 1: head I know that I don't need it.

470
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 3: It's just cool to do.

471
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: But if it got really intense, I'm happy to walk away.

472
00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. How has it been in terms of money

473
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 2: changing things? Because if you're doing gigs and you're just

474
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 2: working a typical job, I can imagine you've got a

475
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 2: certain relationship with money and you're getting by and that

476
00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 2: sort of thing, and then you blow up, and I

477
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 2: imagine that changes your financial situation. Does money buy happiness?

478
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: Money makes some things easier, but it also causes a

479
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 1: lot of problems, like that song is legit. More money,

480
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,640
Speaker 1: more problems.

481
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 2: Like I'm always interested as somebody who can't relate to

482
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 2: the problems. What problems.

483
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 3: It's a hard one to explain.

484
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 1: It exposes all the rest of the problems because you're like, oh,

485
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 1: hang on a minute, got like a stack of money.

486
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 3: Why am I feeling empty?

487
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's yeah, it's pretty funny because it also just

488
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: changes the dynamic of so many things because I think

489
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: people think I'm like a billionaire or something like even

490
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: my family, Like I'll get cent links of palaces around

491
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: Europe and I'm like you should buy this, like bitch,

492
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: sit out. I'm like I'm good. Yeah, So I think

493
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: people and I used to think it too. I used

494
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: to see people on television and go, oh, all the

495
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: money in the world, they probably got private jets, And

496
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: I mean you do. You're like, yeah, you work hard,

497
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 1: you have songs that do well, you have opportunities to

498
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: get to do that make you money. But it's also,

499
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 1: like I said before, you don't know how long that's

500
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: going to last.

501
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 3: Life's long if you're lucky.

502
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: So yeah, you're constantly looking at it like Okay, well

503
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 1: that's cool for now and some people when you have

504
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: a good catalog, I guess there are times where you

505
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: can look it into the future and go cool, like

506
00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 1: I'll sell it then and that'll be worth this much

507
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: and you can do a little bit of that. But yeah,

508
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:03,439
Speaker 1: the rest of it's all up in the air. So

509
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,439
Speaker 1: you've got to be really clever. You know.

510
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 3: I'm lucky.

511
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: I married an accountant, so's I've got this nerd with

512
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 1: me all the time knowing what to do. So but

513
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,719
Speaker 1: I can see how people get all this success and

514
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,120
Speaker 1: just blow it all and get really excited and then

515
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: things happen and life happens, and then all of a sudden,

516
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:22,880
Speaker 1: you're like, shit, what am I going to do?

517
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 2: Like I know exactly what you mean. That money comes in,

518
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 2: and it would be easy to assume that that amount

519
00:28:30,120 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 2: of money is going to come in for the rest

520
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 2: of your life, and you've got to be smart in thinking, actually,

521
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 2: hold on, I've got to be aware of this being

522
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 2: a particularly profitable moment in a very long lifetime. Does

523
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 2: money make life easier?

524
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: Like I said before, Like, yeah, in some ways, like

525
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: in the classic ways you think, like being owed buy

526
00:28:54,080 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 1: a house, or certain things, little treats and holidays and

527
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: whatever become more comfortable. Yeah, like, but the overheads go up,

528
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: so you know, you're like, oh, I need help with that,

529
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: and I need help with this, and they all need

530
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: to be paid. And I want my shows to look

531
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: like this because I'm playing these rooms, so I need

532
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: production to be this. And my band's amazing, so they

533
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: need to be paid. So it's like, yeah, people don't

534
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: know how much things cost, like it all kind of

535
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: adds up.

536
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 3: And if you want to do something at a high level.

537
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: And good quality, yeah, man, that money can like go

538
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: really quickly.

539
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 2: Speaking of Shane, you have been together since just after

540
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 2: you finished school. What's the dynamic of having your partner

541
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 2: manage you? I want to know the best part and

542
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 2: the worst part, So.

543
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: Loaded we could be here for a long time. The

544
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 1: best part is he knows me better than anyone. I

545
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: trust him with absolutely everything. He knows the Amy Show

546
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: project better than I do. He's very smart with his

547
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: decisions and that makes me comfortable. And then I guess

548
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: the hard bit is learning to be like, hey, I'm

549
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: also your wife. We love each other, like you know,

550
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: just a reminder and we're both so busy. Like Shane's

551
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: calendar is just as busy as mine, so we literally

552
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: have to put it in the iCal dinner, like try

553
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: not talk about work.

554
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 2: So there's a theory that in romantic relationships and in

555
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 2: professional relationships, you really just have the same fight over

556
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 2: and over again. It just kind of takes a different form.

557
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 2: What is your fight with your husband?

558
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 3: The constant fight is.

559
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: So we'll have our separate days and I would have

560
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: just been you know, going go and going interview whatever

561
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: whatever I'm doing, even if I'm in the studio and

562
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: he's had I had all these conversations and worked all

563
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: through the day and done some planning and that, and

564
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: I'll always want to know what's going on because it's

565
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: actually my business too. So but he's had a day

566
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: and has not got off the phone and he's like, oh, babe,

567
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: I just and I'm like, I just don't know anything. Ever,

568
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: He's like, I know, I know, but like I've literally

569
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: just been talking about you all day. And I really

570
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: feel for him, because it's not just the day that

571
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: he speaks about me with agents and whoever. He'll go

572
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,959
Speaker 1: to the pub and be like, oh that's Amy Shark's husband,

573
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: or hey, mate, saw Amy's done this, it's Amy, Amy, Amy,

574
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: and like I would hate me, and he does this

575
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: so well because he obviously loves me very much. But

576
00:31:54,880 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: I can understand when he's like, there's so much to

577
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: fill you in on. I just like if we could

578
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: just talk about anything else, and that's what usually I'm like, Oh,

579
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 1: but I want to know, Yeah, I want to know

580
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: what's going on, like you know, so that it's the

581
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: constant because essentially we work in the same thing, but

582
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: we're doing different things for the day usually, So yeah,

583
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: I always hassle him about that, and he hassles me

584
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: about leaving him alone.

585
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 2: That is an interesting dynamic that like do you think

586
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 2: he ever feels in the shadows a bit? Like, for example,

587
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 2: I can imagine if you went somewhere like you're right

588
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 2: because of your profile and who you are, people would

589
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 2: be like, oh my gosh, Amy, tell me about X

590
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 2: y Z. Do you think sometimes he feels overshadowed.

591
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: Coolest thing about Shane is doesn't give a shit. Ye

592
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: could not care. You won't see him at anything. He's

593
00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: so happy for me and he's happy that he knows

594
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: he's done a brilliant job at managing me. And he

595
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: doesn't like people, like he doesn't like well, he does

596
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: like people, Sorry, he just doesn't like people. He's just

597
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: so happy it's worked right, and he loves his job.

598
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: He gets to work in music, and you know, he's

599
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: got such a big hand in the A and R

600
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: ring of the record and he gets so much from that.

601
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: I think he's just proud, like when people come up.

602
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: But he obviously he has his moments where he's like,

603
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: oh my god, one more person, and then we'll go

604
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 1: to his parents, and then his parents want to ask everything.

605
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 1: So he's constantly just on, you know, and it's very exhausting.

606
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: But when it comes to feeling in the shadows, like

607
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: he's never wanted to be a musician. He doesn't like

608
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: the limelight. He's actually a very shy guy, so until

609
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: he has a few beers, but like, yeah, he's just

610
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: not that person. Which is great because I've seen couples

611
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: and I've seen guy or the wife or whoever just

612
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: being like trying to sort of use that to jump

613
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: start their career or like you know, they're just like

614
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 1: I want to do something too, Now what can I do?

615
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 2: Yeah?

616
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, so yeah I'm lucky.

617
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's probably huge blessing that you've been together

618
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 2: for so long, and that together before all of this happened.

619
00:34:16,319 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 1: I honestly like, if something happened with us, that's me done.

620
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 1: I don't have it in me to learn anyone else

621
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: or to meet other parents of people.

622
00:34:26,279 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 3: I'm tapped. I'm done, Like especially now, Like.

623
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 1: I look at people with profiles and they're dating, and

624
00:34:32,839 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, Jesus, babe, does he know like like or

625
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,999
Speaker 1: you know, vice versa, like are you dating this girl?

626
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 2: Like?

627
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,439
Speaker 1: Is she just dating you because you're such and such?

628
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: Like it's it must be so hard. I'm really glad

629
00:34:46,319 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: that that.

630
00:34:47,799 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't have to.

631
00:34:48,839 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 2: Do after the break, the surprising times when Amy thought

632
00:34:53,879 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 2: she'd feel her happiest but didn't. I often talk on

633
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,559
Speaker 2: this podcast about the idea that the world lies to

634
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,959
Speaker 2: us a bit about happiness and that often the moments

635
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:17,519
Speaker 2: we expect to be the happiest actually aren't. And so

636
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 2: I often ask people if they have a moment they

637
00:35:20,759 --> 00:35:23,399
Speaker 2: can think of where the world told them they'd be

638
00:35:23,479 --> 00:35:26,999
Speaker 2: happy and they weren't. Like everything appeared from the outside

639
00:35:27,439 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 2: to be super shiny and happy and together, and behind

640
00:35:32,799 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 2: the scenes it was a very different story.

641
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:41,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's more just you'll have moments of wow, this

642
00:35:41,479 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 1: is hard, and especially now more than any other time.

643
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 1: Like I've obviously had moments at the late night shows

644
00:35:48,959 --> 00:35:51,039
Speaker 1: where people think I'm living it up and I'm like

645
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: crying in the bathroom, don't want to go out and

646
00:35:53,279 --> 00:35:56,639
Speaker 1: play the show. So there's all those little things sort

647
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: of throughout the last eight years. But there's times where

648
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: you can't really explain it. You're sort of just sitting

649
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,959
Speaker 1: still and you really don't know what the next move is,

650
00:36:09,359 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of pressure and people think you're

651
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 1: this when you're really still just that and I don't

652
00:36:16,359 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 1: I can't explain it, but it gets really I can

653
00:36:19,839 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 1: see how artists really need to check in with their

654
00:36:21,759 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 1: mental health because it's just hard to put your finger

655
00:36:25,399 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: on it. Be like, I don't know what makes me happy.

656
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:29,599
Speaker 1: I don't know I've traveled the world. I don't even

657
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 1: know what a holiday. I don't know like And honestly,

658
00:36:33,799 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: I had the best conversation with Tom's launch, which sounds crazy,

659
00:36:37,399 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: on this boat the day of his show, and I

660
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 1: was talking to him and I'm like, this is so fun,

661
00:36:43,959 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 1: Like you know, we're on the Sydney Harbor and he's like,

662
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: is it's like you're having fun?

663
00:36:47,759 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 3: And I'm like, yeah, aren't you guys? I don't know anymore.

664
00:36:50,439 --> 00:36:50,959
Speaker 3: I guys, I guess.

665
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: So He's like, damn, I feel that way, and I'm like, yeah,

666
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 1: I guess. Like I tour so much, so the thought

667
00:36:57,799 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 1: of packing a bag.

668
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 3: Form of fun. It's like, huh, what, like where are

669
00:37:02,279 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 3: we going to go?

670
00:37:02,879 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 1: That's actually fun that we're gonna because it's hard to explain.

671
00:37:06,839 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: You you associate travel and being at these certain places

672
00:37:10,319 --> 00:37:14,399
Speaker 1: with work now. So yeah, Tom was like, I don't

673
00:37:14,439 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 1: know when I'm happy anymore, and I'm like that's so sad,

674
00:37:18,439 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 1: and I'm just like, yeah, I guess I see glimmers

675
00:37:20,799 --> 00:37:23,079
Speaker 1: of that every now and then you can have all

676
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 1: this shit and it's still like like I honestly, and

677
00:37:26,799 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 1: then I'll go watch my niece skate and when I

678
00:37:29,759 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 1: see her run up to me like just drops everything.

679
00:37:32,439 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: That's probably the most endorphin of happiness. I'm like, I'm

680
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: so happy, like just seeing her happy and to see me,

681
00:37:39,399 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: which is crazy, but like the littlest things that didn't

682
00:37:43,319 --> 00:37:48,559
Speaker 1: mean shit before. Really, it's like that's the coolest thing

683
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:50,999
Speaker 1: about having all these massive highs that you never thought

684
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: you'd have because the simplest things are so special.

685
00:37:54,799 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that kind of image of being on a boat

686
00:37:57,879 --> 00:38:02,959
Speaker 2: and him saying is it, Like, is it? I think

687
00:38:02,959 --> 00:38:07,280
Speaker 2: that's really profound because someone like him and someone like you,

688
00:38:07,279 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 2: you must find yourself in these situation where you're in

689
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,479
Speaker 2: beautiful parts of the world and beautiful venues and you're

690
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:18,999
Speaker 2: being doted on. Ye, And it's all the criteria of

691
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 2: what makes for a happy moment, and the fact is

692
00:38:23,279 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 2: that you just you don't always feel that way. Yeah,

693
00:38:26,439 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 2: And sometimes you're just not really in the moment for

694
00:38:29,479 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 2: whatever reason.

695
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

696
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,919
Speaker 2: Is there any guilt that comes with that? I mean

697
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,280
Speaker 2: I know for me that there have been times where

698
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 2: like it's meant to be the happiest moment, I don't

699
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 2: feel that, And then comes the secondary emotion of beating

700
00:38:43,799 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 2: myself up because I don't feel how I yeah think

701
00:38:47,319 --> 00:38:49,519
Speaker 2: I'm meant to feel. Have you ever had that?

702
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 3: Yeah?

703
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,439
Speaker 1: I think I had that. We always talk about our

704
00:38:52,439 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 1: wedding night because like I was so done, Like I

705
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,039
Speaker 1: was just like we like smoke bomb from our own

706
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,839
Speaker 1: wedding and then I was so happy. The next day

707
00:39:00,879 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: we were off to Hawaii, and I was like happier

708
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,119
Speaker 1: than I was walking down the aisle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

709
00:39:05,759 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: seriously it's yeah. And then you're like, oh, man, I

710
00:39:08,759 --> 00:39:11,280
Speaker 1: should have spoken to Arnie whatever. Oh I didn't. Really,

711
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 1: I wasn't really there. I was like somewhere else. Yeah,

712
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:17,999
Speaker 1: all the time. I mean, Sunday sadness was built from

713
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 1: that feeling of like that particular day night, I'm like,

714
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 1: wait a minute, have I spoken to that? Have I replied?

715
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,639
Speaker 1: Or I haven't done much with family. I haven't even

716
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: checked in on anyone. I've just it's all been me, me, me,

717
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: am I God, I'm a monster, like you know, like

718
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,879
Speaker 1: that's all the time. I'm always beating myself up.

719
00:39:38,959 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 2: You have worked with some really big names in music,

720
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 2: people like Ed Sheeran and Jack Antonov, who often writes

721
00:39:47,959 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 2: with Taylor Swift, and I can imagine you've been in

722
00:39:49,879 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 2: rooms with some really, really, really famous people. What's your

723
00:39:55,839 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 2: mindset going into a studio with Ed Sheeran? Are you terrified, excited,

724
00:40:04,399 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 2: scared that you're gonna do something stupid? Like how do

725
00:40:08,799 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 2: you feel?

726
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:09,959
Speaker 1: Well?

727
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 5: That the situation was really hardcore because I was also

728
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:18,039
Speaker 5: jet lagged, so I flew there and didn't have much

729
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 5: time to get on the time zone, and then you're

730
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 5: in your head you're like, I have to sleep, Like

731
00:40:23,399 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 5: I have to sleep because if I don't.

732
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,879
Speaker 1: Sleep, I'm gonna be tired and we'll be weirdo. I'm

733
00:40:28,879 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: gonna be weirdo.

734
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 3: Amy.

735
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:32,959
Speaker 1: Anytime I have a big thing like that, everyone's like,

736
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 1: you know, just go in and have a good time

737
00:40:34,959 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 1: and just see what happens.

738
00:40:35,799 --> 00:40:36,559
Speaker 3: I'm like, fuck off.

739
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, we all want to hit, we all want like

740
00:40:39,799 --> 00:40:42,399
Speaker 1: so the pressure is so on, and also I want

741
00:40:42,439 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 1: to show people like ed that I can write that, like,

742
00:40:45,839 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 1: you know, think of me next time. You know you're

743
00:40:47,879 --> 00:40:50,959
Speaker 1: putting through these writing camps or whatever, So yeah, you

744
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 1: want to step up and flex.

745
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,559
Speaker 3: And seeing him walk in was really.

746
00:40:55,359 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 1: Crazy because it was like, I can't believe this is happening.

747
00:40:58,439 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 1: I'm here because you're kind of you're always like, is

748
00:41:00,879 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 1: he going to pull out?

749
00:41:01,879 --> 00:41:04,999
Speaker 3: Or is this actually going to go ahead? Yeah, he's like.

750
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: Amy. And then but you find that pros have a

751
00:41:11,759 --> 00:41:17,159
Speaker 1: way of making you feel so calm and relaxed. It's

752
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:21,519
Speaker 1: all the fake egotistical twats that don't know how to

753
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,519
Speaker 1: do that, and you're like, oh, that's a bit of

754
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: a bummer, but all the pros and people that actually

755
00:41:28,959 --> 00:41:33,559
Speaker 1: have longevity make you feel so relaxed and like, just

756
00:41:34,439 --> 00:41:35,959
Speaker 1: get the best out of you straight away.

757
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 2: I've always wanted this. Do you go into a session

758
00:41:39,439 --> 00:41:42,999
Speaker 2: like that, like cold, like you're kind of like, I

759
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 2: really hope something comes out in this session. Or do

760
00:41:45,799 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 2: you go in with ideas under your belt that you

761
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,599
Speaker 2: are going to pitch throughout the session and maybe act

762
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:54,879
Speaker 2: like they came up organically.

763
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 3: I always have things in my pocket.

764
00:41:58,319 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, always, I'm never going in there without something for backup,

765
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,119
Speaker 1: just in case. You know, when you're writing a song

766
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 1: from scratch you really like, especially with someone like Ed,

767
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 1: straight away you realize I don't think I need reinforcements.

768
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,919
Speaker 1: He's on fire, which is inspiring me, and this is

769
00:42:18,959 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 1: sounding great, and yeah, you just trust the process because

770
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:26,119
Speaker 1: once again you with a pro and everything is fine.

771
00:42:26,399 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 3: But I always have ideas always.

772
00:42:29,879 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: I've never really let a full thing go and acted

773
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,479
Speaker 1: like it's we've done it together. Yeah, because they don't

774
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:36,879
Speaker 1: let you.

775
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 3: It's not like it just doesn't work.

776
00:42:40,479 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 1: It's as like they can sniff that, like I think,

777
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 1: so I prepared, Yeah, yeah, and usually it's not even

778
00:42:47,839 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 1: that good, like with what you could do with this person,

779
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 1: So you kind of just a few ideas, maybe topical

780
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,479
Speaker 1: things I try and not have, Like I never have

781
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,959
Speaker 1: a whole song ready to go. It's more just a

782
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 1: line that I love, or a couple of chords that

783
00:43:01,319 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 1: I might love and or a riff or you know,

784
00:43:03,919 --> 00:43:06,959
Speaker 1: something just to kick it off in case I turn

785
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:08,359
Speaker 1: up and ed it's like, what do you got?

786
00:43:08,439 --> 00:43:08,639
Speaker 2: Yeah?

787
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:12,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, kind of with you because you're like a

788
00:43:12,439 --> 00:43:12,879
Speaker 1: big deal.

789
00:43:16,799 --> 00:43:21,639
Speaker 2: Has anyone disappointed you, Like anybody that you've met in

790
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,439
Speaker 2: the industry and had really high expectations of don't have

791
00:43:25,479 --> 00:43:28,159
Speaker 2: to name names, but have you had an experience where

792
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 2: you went in really expecting to have a connection with

793
00:43:33,839 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 2: somebody to you know, maybe it's meeting somebody who's an idol,

794
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:41,519
Speaker 2: and then it has not been that.

795
00:43:42,799 --> 00:43:45,999
Speaker 1: Not that I've worked with, but I've been in a

796
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 1: I guess a hang environment where I've been like, oh,

797
00:43:50,399 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: ye're a bit of it.

798
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 3: You're just not who I thought you were and that's fine.

799
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 2: And what kind of personality traits do you notice?

800
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:00,399
Speaker 3: Just too cool?

801
00:44:00,959 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, just way too cool and that's fine. But

802
00:44:06,879 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just feel like the world's past

803
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: that and maybe if you're I don't know, on show

804
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 1: it somewhere where that's your persona or whatever. When you're

805
00:44:15,319 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: in a when you're in a place where there are

806
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 1: other musicians who are yeah, I just like, what do

807
00:44:21,839 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 1: you think you.

808
00:44:22,439 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 3: Look like right now?

809
00:44:23,359 --> 00:44:23,599
Speaker 1: Yeah?

810
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 2: Yeah?

811
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 3: Like yeah, it's just a bit like oh, but I don't.

812
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,599
Speaker 1: Really walk away going, oh my god, I'm shattered that

813
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:31,999
Speaker 1: that person has laid me down.

814
00:44:32,439 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 3: All the people I've worked with legends and so kind

815
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 3: and still speak to today.

816
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 2: So when you get to this point in your career,

817
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:49,399
Speaker 2: do you experience jealousy and does your kind of benchmark

818
00:44:49,479 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 2: of what you're jealous of change? Because, for example, when

819
00:44:54,359 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 2: you're doing gigs, you might look at somebody on Triple

820
00:44:57,319 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 2: J and be like, damn, I wish I was them.

821
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 2: And now you're at your level, are you looking at

822
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:02,559
Speaker 2: Taylor Swift? I mean I want to do that.

823
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:05,559
Speaker 1: Anyone that's looking at Taylor going on to do that

824
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: is a psycho sit down. It's never gonna happen, do

825
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:09,479
Speaker 1: you know.

826
00:45:09,919 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 3: It's more.

827
00:45:12,319 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: It's more these days, simple things that I see that

828
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 1: I'm like, I think I wish I was there. Like

829
00:45:19,919 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: it's mainly just around my niece's nephews. I'm like, oh man,

830
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:25,079
Speaker 1: I wish I was at her birthday right now, or

831
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,919
Speaker 1: like I get jealous the little weird things. But it's

832
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: very normal to still look at someone having a massive

833
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,559
Speaker 1: song that you're like, that's such a good song. I

834
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:40,119
Speaker 1: don't know if it's jealousy, but it's definitely like, oh man,

835
00:45:40,399 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 1: why don't.

836
00:45:40,839 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 3: I think of it?

837
00:45:41,319 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know I used to be

838
00:45:44,359 --> 00:45:48,479
Speaker 1: when I first started, I was like even jealous of

839
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:53,879
Speaker 1: ah man, they're getting more of my manager's attention, or

840
00:45:53,919 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: they're like you know what I mean, like needy little

841
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,439
Speaker 1: bitch vibes. But I don't have them anymore, thank god.

842
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:05,399
Speaker 2: I want to talk about TikTok. You made the funniest

843
00:46:05,439 --> 00:46:08,919
Speaker 2: TikTok about whether it's worth being a musician right now,

844
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,639
Speaker 2: and you said your label. You're being told go live

845
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 2: on Instagram, post some Instagram reels, some TikTok content, go

846
00:46:16,279 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 2: live on TikTok, get some things up on Facebook, some

847
00:46:18,759 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 2: Facebook reels, do some YouTube shorts, Facebook fan groups, Instagram, broadcast, LinkedIn, Tinder, Grinder,

848
00:46:25,439 --> 00:46:28,559
Speaker 2: and real estate dot com. And I laughed out loud

849
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 2: at my sister and I have shared that so many times.

850
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,359
Speaker 2: Obviously those last times were a joke, but genuinely the

851
00:46:35,359 --> 00:46:39,159
Speaker 2: other ones are not. You have to work really hard

852
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:42,079
Speaker 2: at social media when you're a musician right now, because

853
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 2: it's essentially your biggest marketing tool. How does that sit

854
00:46:45,879 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 2: with you in terms of being an artist?

855
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:52,879
Speaker 1: It's really exhausting, and I'm lucky that I have a

856
00:46:52,919 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: sense of humor and I can have a bit of

857
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,639
Speaker 1: fun with it if I must do it. But I'm

858
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: also the type that I don't have anyone doing my

859
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,839
Speaker 1: social media because so many artists are like, what are

860
00:47:04,839 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 1: you crazy? Like, just get someone to do it, It's like,

861
00:47:07,359 --> 00:47:10,039
Speaker 1: but they won't right like me. They won't edit it

862
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: like me, they won't use the same songs that I

863
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:16,559
Speaker 1: like to use. It's just so personal, and that's the

864
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: main channel for me to show people who I am.

865
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,359
Speaker 1: If someone messes it up, if I'm not driving it,

866
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 1: I'm petrified. That's what you choose to show people bits

867
00:47:31,439 --> 00:47:35,999
Speaker 1: of your life. So it's very important to me to

868
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,599
Speaker 1: have a hold on that. But did I ever think

869
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: there'd be so many fucking things to do? No?

870
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:42,359
Speaker 3: At the start, it.

871
00:47:42,319 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: Was just like Instagram and Facebook or whatever, and then

872
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: TikTok comes from along and I'm like, oh, this is

873
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: kind of fun. Like I used to make videos all

874
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,959
Speaker 1: the time, like funny ones and whatever. But then yeah,

875
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: when you add them all up, and I don't even

876
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: want to say the word threads because it's something I

877
00:47:58,719 --> 00:47:59,399
Speaker 1: am willing to.

878
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 2: I think we all draw the line.

879
00:48:01,479 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 3: I can't.

880
00:48:03,799 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 1: I got to kill it. Kill it everyone, boycott please,

881
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:13,119
Speaker 1: I can't do it. I took myself off Twitter, which

882
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 1: I love. I'm loving not being on that. That's something management.

883
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 1: Just whatever I've put out, they just copy that put

884
00:48:19,799 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 1: on Twitter. It's a nasty, nasty place, and especially once

885
00:48:23,359 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: you're on television, it's such so brutal out there. But

886
00:48:27,879 --> 00:48:31,359
Speaker 1: I'm going blinde It's great. It's amazing. Kyle actually said

887
00:48:31,399 --> 00:48:33,320
Speaker 1: that to me. He said, I don't look at anything

888
00:48:33,319 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 1: because I walk through the day thinking everything's fine.

889
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 3: Things are not okay.

890
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of that, you've done two seasons of a

891
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 2: styline Idol. You won a LOGI for your role as

892
00:48:48,759 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 2: a judge on the show. How have you found TV

893
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 2: and have you found those criticisms different?

894
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:00,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, they go up another level, I think because your

895
00:49:00,959 --> 00:49:04,239
Speaker 1: profile just goes up another level, like even now walking around,

896
00:49:04,319 --> 00:49:05,919
Speaker 1: I could have a hat on or a beanie and

897
00:49:05,959 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 1: people know my face now, like it's no there's no hiding,

898
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 1: which is fine. Like I wasn't fine for the first season.

899
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:15,439
Speaker 1: I really I was really reclusive and didn't want to

900
00:49:15,479 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: go out anywhere I couldn't be bothered. I'm like, oh,

901
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:18,799
Speaker 1: if someone sees me, I'm not done up and I

902
00:49:18,839 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 1: can't bothered whatever, And then friends and Shane were just like,

903
00:49:23,479 --> 00:49:25,999
Speaker 1: you can't live like that. You need to be able

904
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 1: to go to dinner and go out and just who cares.

905
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 1: And so now I'm really good with it. I'm just like, oh,

906
00:49:32,919 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 1: look whatever if I look like shit, I don't like shit. Yeah,

907
00:49:35,879 --> 00:49:40,999
Speaker 1: So but yeah, people get really nasty on line when

908
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 1: you're I feel like it's just because you're in their

909
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 1: face a lot. Like I feel like I'm on radio

910
00:49:45,839 --> 00:49:47,719
Speaker 1: or now I'm on their TV, and it's like, if

911
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 1: you don't like me, you're really going to get annoyed

912
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:50,839
Speaker 1: with that.

913
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 2: And I feel like people have a weird thing and

914
00:49:54,279 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 2: yes with TV where they're almost like you're trying to

915
00:49:58,759 --> 00:50:01,519
Speaker 2: be in my face and therefore I get to get

916
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:03,839
Speaker 2: angry at you. Yep, and it's like, I'm not trying

917
00:50:03,839 --> 00:50:05,799
Speaker 2: to be I'm just doing my job and you have

918
00:50:05,879 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 2: the TV.

919
00:50:06,399 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 3: On, Yeah, you're on that channel.

920
00:50:09,319 --> 00:50:12,839
Speaker 1: Yes, time that I'm on that channel, babe, And I'm not.

921
00:50:12,839 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 2: Doing anything to go out of my way, Yeah, to

922
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 2: irritate you. I imagine you've built a really thick skin

923
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:23,319
Speaker 2: from music and from dealing with rejection. Were there any

924
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,959
Speaker 2: criticism that came with being on TV that surprised you

925
00:50:27,359 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 2: with how much they hurt?

926
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,839
Speaker 1: When it's your character, when people really think you're this

927
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: other person, it's really hard to not fight back and

928
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,399
Speaker 1: protect yourself and whatever. And then I think the other

929
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 1: hard thing is friends and family think they need to

930
00:50:45,759 --> 00:50:48,439
Speaker 1: weigh in and you're like, it actually makes it worse. Yes,

931
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,919
Speaker 1: And then especially now where I really don't care, Like

932
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 1: I mean that I do not care. You could write

933
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 1: the most gnally thing about me and I just would

934
00:50:56,759 --> 00:50:59,919
Speaker 1: not You just wouldn't touch the sides. But trying to

935
00:50:59,959 --> 00:51:01,919
Speaker 1: explain that to friends and family, they don't believe you.

936
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 3: They just don't believe you.

937
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 1: And I'm like, you don't get it, Like I hit

938
00:51:05,839 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 1: a stage now and I've actually been like this for

939
00:51:08,319 --> 00:51:09,879
Speaker 1: my whole life. You hurt me enough, I'll just put

940
00:51:09,919 --> 00:51:11,559
Speaker 1: you in a b and I'll never look at you again.

941
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 1: And it's a bit gnarly, like Shane always says, Jesus Chris,

942
00:51:15,799 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 1: you are. But it's how I've had to do things.

943
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 1: And there's very few people that have hit me hard

944
00:51:23,319 --> 00:51:25,959
Speaker 1: enough that I'm like, oh, okay, cool, You're nothing to

945
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 1: me now, you don't affect me whatever.

946
00:51:28,879 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 3: But that's what online is to me.

947
00:51:31,439 --> 00:51:34,439
Speaker 1: Now. If I see a name that's like not, I'm like, oh,

948
00:51:34,439 --> 00:51:37,839
Speaker 1: I don't care. What if I don't care? You're not

949
00:51:37,879 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 1: my friend on my fan you know, in my circles.

950
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:43,559
Speaker 2: What did people say about your character? Oh?

951
00:51:43,959 --> 00:51:52,559
Speaker 1: Just that I'm nasty and calculated and I don't trust her.

952
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:55,319
Speaker 1: And oh what does she know? She doesn't even sing,

953
00:51:55,359 --> 00:51:59,079
Speaker 1: and she's only she can't sing. She's only famous because

954
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 1: of who she's worked with. She doesn't even like. People

955
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 1: are just saying.

956
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:04,399
Speaker 3: Yes, outright lies, you know.

957
00:52:04,879 --> 00:52:07,039
Speaker 1: And then I've also got to remember there are kids

958
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:10,079
Speaker 1: on there, so they'll be like like, sometimes I'll read

959
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:12,439
Speaker 1: it and be like, oh, that's right, there's kids on

960
00:52:12,479 --> 00:52:14,959
Speaker 1: here writing the like I think it's an adult, but

961
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:19,159
Speaker 1: they're just like you suck in purple like or don't

962
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 1: ever wear glitter again because glitter is my favorite And

963
00:52:21,279 --> 00:52:23,399
Speaker 1: you're like people okay out there.

964
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,999
Speaker 2: And probably with family and friends, it hurts them too,

965
00:52:27,439 --> 00:52:32,159
Speaker 2: Like they're probably looking at it and being hurt independent

966
00:52:32,279 --> 00:52:34,679
Speaker 2: of whether you feel it. Yeah, they're like, I feel

967
00:52:34,759 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 2: hurt because I love that person and I know who

968
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:39,639
Speaker 2: that person is. That's not who they are. It's such

969
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 2: a hard thing to turn away from. But I think

970
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,039
Speaker 2: the healthiest thing is genuinely if you don't see it,

971
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:45,599
Speaker 2: it's not there.

972
00:52:45,799 --> 00:52:46,719
Speaker 3: It's so great.

973
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I could honestly be getting completely canceled

974
00:52:50,479 --> 00:52:51,839
Speaker 1: right now and I wouldn't know.

975
00:52:51,959 --> 00:52:57,319
Speaker 2: You wouldn't know, You wouldn't know what currently keeps you

976
00:52:57,359 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 2: from happiness? Like, what would you say is your biggest

977
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:03,359
Speaker 2: barrier to happiness at this point in your life?

978
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:09,999
Speaker 1: Probably a mixture of workload and having a profile. I

979
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: think if I was an Amy Shark, if I was

980
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:15,919
Speaker 1: still just Ames who's worked at the Gold Coast Titans.

981
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 1: Sometimes there's things I really miss about people not wanting

982
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:22,879
Speaker 1: me there to get a photo with their kids, or

983
00:53:23,839 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 1: can you sign this? It's weird you want that for

984
00:53:27,359 --> 00:53:30,599
Speaker 1: so long. You're like someone just know I am how

985
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 1: cool signing autographs, and then it's just that tailor as

986
00:53:35,319 --> 00:53:37,319
Speaker 1: old as time. Just be careful what you wish for.

987
00:53:37,479 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm nowhere near that, Like I feel like I've

988
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:43,919
Speaker 1: got a good handle on things. I just put good

989
00:53:43,959 --> 00:53:46,799
Speaker 1: people around me, and people that I've gotten weird, I'm

990
00:53:46,839 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 1: just I just distanced myself from. But but yeah, there's

991
00:53:50,279 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 1: definitely sometimes you're like, oh, that's let me down a

992
00:53:52,759 --> 00:53:55,839
Speaker 1: little bit, that that person's now treating me different, or

993
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:58,599
Speaker 1: and you just you can't go back. It's something you

994
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 1: just can't flick the switch. And remember when we did

995
00:54:02,319 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: speak about other things apart from the record or idol

996
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 1: or charts or the tour or whatever.

997
00:54:08,279 --> 00:54:12,079
Speaker 2: You know, someday sad you say that you're in your

998
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 2: sadness era? What does that mean? And what is it

999
00:54:19,319 --> 00:54:26,239
Speaker 2: like to explore sadness through music? Does it help you cope?

1000
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 3: It's a bit of a play on.

1001
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:32,999
Speaker 1: Words and titles to be honest, like, because this has

1002
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 1: got some real playful songs on it on this album,

1003
00:54:35,959 --> 00:54:38,399
Speaker 1: But you ask any artist, it's really hard to come

1004
00:54:38,479 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 1: up with some kind of title for your album because

1005
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:44,479
Speaker 1: all the good shit's taken. But what I will say

1006
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:48,399
Speaker 1: is all my albums have been quite emotional, and when

1007
00:54:48,399 --> 00:54:50,559
Speaker 1: I am happy, I'm out being happy. I'm not really

1008
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:54,039
Speaker 1: sitting there feeling all melancholy. So it's the times that

1009
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:56,279
Speaker 1: I do right and the things that are playing on

1010
00:54:56,319 --> 00:55:00,120
Speaker 1: my mind are the sadder feelings.

1011
00:55:00,439 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 3: So this's just who I am as an artist. I

1012
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 3: can't help it.

1013
00:55:03,399 --> 00:55:09,079
Speaker 1: So the whole Sunday Sadness was just I felt like

1014
00:55:09,439 --> 00:55:14,919
Speaker 1: overarching theme that kind of comes in and out.

1015
00:55:14,759 --> 00:55:15,640
Speaker 3: Of the whole record.

1016
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:19,159
Speaker 1: Even the happy sounding songs have a little emo in there,

1017
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 1: so and it just sounded cool. Sunday sadness kind of

1018
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:26,279
Speaker 1: sounded cool, and the sadness to us sounds cool too. Obviously,

1019
00:55:26,319 --> 00:55:28,959
Speaker 1: people know that I'm not going to be sitting there

1020
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:31,359
Speaker 1: crying and the light's going to be dim and like

1021
00:55:31,359 --> 00:55:33,239
Speaker 1: it's going to be it's gonna be rock show, like

1022
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:34,359
Speaker 1: it's gonna be wild out there.

1023
00:55:34,919 --> 00:55:35,719
Speaker 3: It's who I am.

1024
00:55:35,959 --> 00:55:40,799
Speaker 1: Like that that kind of storytelling as an artist is

1025
00:55:40,839 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 1: really important to me, and that feeling of being okay

1026
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 1: with documenting sad times and sad ish stories, even to

1027
00:55:52,759 --> 00:55:54,839
Speaker 1: sad ish melodies and production.

1028
00:55:55,919 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 3: So music I grew up loving for some.

1029
00:55:57,839 --> 00:56:00,479
Speaker 1: Reason as a kid, well, I was like to think

1030
00:56:00,479 --> 00:56:02,799
Speaker 1: of myself as a happy kid. I really took to

1031
00:56:03,839 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 1: the kind of emao we sadder songs and voices.

1032
00:56:08,759 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 2: Even though releasing this album Sunday sadness and you experience

1033
00:56:15,759 --> 00:56:18,839
Speaker 2: obviously the full spectrum of human emotions, and that's what

1034
00:56:18,879 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 2: makes music so beautiful is the expression of those. Would

1035
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 2: you say that right now you are happy?

1036
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:27,999
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think I would.

1037
00:56:28,399 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I'm human, So there's times where things are crap,

1038
00:56:32,959 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 1: but I reckon now after being where I am now,

1039
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 1: yeah I'm happy. Yeah, it's not on brand for the record,

1040
00:56:43,399 --> 00:56:46,399
Speaker 1: but yeah, thank.

1041
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 2: You so much for your time today. I really appreciate it.

1042
00:56:48,359 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1043
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a fun chat.

1044
00:56:51,319 --> 00:56:54,079
Speaker 2: That's all we've got time for on today's episode of

1045
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 2: But Are You Happy? I hope this conversation made you

1046
00:56:57,759 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 2: think about those big goals you have for yourself, all

1047
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 2: those things you really really wish for that you assume

1048
00:57:08,359 --> 00:57:12,039
Speaker 2: will solve all your problems. Once you get their, life

1049
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:17,559
Speaker 2: will be uncomplicated, everything will be joyous, and all your

1050
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 2: striving will be resolved because no matter where you are,

1051
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 2: there are always going to be peaks and troughs in

1052
00:57:25,439 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 2: your experience. And even if you get the thing you desperately,

1053
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 2: desperately want. It is not going to be one dimensional.

1054
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 2: This is something I'm still figuring out. I think all

1055
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 2: of us have those ideas of what we can achieve

1056
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:44,919
Speaker 2: that will fix all of our problems, and it is

1057
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:48,519
Speaker 2: just not that simple. That's why I really like this

1058
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 2: show and these conversations, because they show that even the

1059
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 2: people we look at from a distance and assume they

1060
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 2: have everything going through a lot of the same emotional

1061
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 2: experiences that we all are. For more from Amy, go

1062
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 2: and listen to her brand new album, Sunday Sadness, and

1063
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 2: I want to thank her for her vulnerability and her candidness.

1064
00:58:11,959 --> 00:58:14,439
Speaker 2: And I hope you got something out of this conversation.

1065
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,559
Speaker 2: And if there's anyone you know who you think will

1066
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 2: love it, please share it with them. If you want

1067
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:25,400
Speaker 2: to recommend anyone for the show, you can always slide

1068
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 2: into my DMS. I love your suggestions. They are often

1069
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:31,680
Speaker 2: the guests that we reach out to, the ones you

1070
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 2: guys have suggested. If you like the show, leave us

1071
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 2: a review because it helps people find us and we

1072
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:42,919
Speaker 2: always love your feedback. Join me next week for one

1073
00:58:42,919 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 2: of the most moving conversations I've ever had on this

1074
00:58:45,919 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 2: podcast with comedian and actor Steph Tisdall. The executive producer

1075
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:53,999
Speaker 2: of that Are You Happy is Niama Brown, and the

1076
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 2: producer is Charlie Blackman. Audio editing by Scott Stronik and

1077
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:01,479
Speaker 2: I'm your host Claire Stevens. See you next week.