1 00:00:11,064 --> 00:00:15,304 Speaker 1: So you're listening to a Mumma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia 2 00:00:15,424 --> 00:00:18,984 Speaker 1: acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waders that this 3 00:00:19,064 --> 00:00:20,584 Speaker 1: podcast is recorded on. 4 00:00:25,384 --> 00:00:28,384 Speaker 2: From Mamma Mia. Welcome to the Spill your daily pop 5 00:00:28,424 --> 00:00:29,144 Speaker 2: culture fix. 6 00:00:29,384 --> 00:00:31,584 Speaker 1: I'm m Vernon and I'm Laura Brodney. 7 00:00:31,624 --> 00:00:32,424 Speaker 2: Are you going out tonight? 8 00:00:32,904 --> 00:00:33,104 Speaker 1: Yes? 9 00:00:33,184 --> 00:00:34,464 Speaker 2: Your why looks really nice? 10 00:00:34,504 --> 00:00:36,904 Speaker 1: Oh my god. As you know, I only care what 11 00:00:36,944 --> 00:00:39,344 Speaker 1: you and Olivia Rodrigue think of my hair, and I'm 12 00:00:39,424 --> 00:00:41,864 Speaker 1: very self conscious about it. Yeah, I'm going to a 13 00:00:41,904 --> 00:00:44,944 Speaker 1: snow White event tonight and a snow White event next week, 14 00:00:44,984 --> 00:00:47,904 Speaker 1: So today I'm more in my snow White vibe. Enter 15 00:00:47,944 --> 00:00:49,744 Speaker 1: the premiere, I'm going to do Evil Queen, so I 16 00:00:49,784 --> 00:00:50,904 Speaker 1: tried to like mix it up. 17 00:00:51,024 --> 00:00:53,184 Speaker 2: Oh wow, and I it's a big topic here in 18 00:00:53,224 --> 00:00:54,104 Speaker 2: the Mummy offices. 19 00:00:54,464 --> 00:00:56,664 Speaker 1: Yes, okay, Well, I'm going to have so many thoughts 20 00:00:56,664 --> 00:00:58,504 Speaker 1: next week when I see it and on that press 21 00:00:58,504 --> 00:01:00,384 Speaker 1: too and everything. But I do feel a bit of 22 00:01:00,384 --> 00:01:02,624 Speaker 1: like affinity with the character because I did play snow 23 00:01:02,664 --> 00:01:05,344 Speaker 1: White in my primary school production of snow White and 24 00:01:05,384 --> 00:01:07,024 Speaker 1: the Seven Dwarves back when I was going to be 25 00:01:07,064 --> 00:01:08,984 Speaker 1: an actress, which might still happen for me who knows. 26 00:01:09,344 --> 00:01:11,304 Speaker 2: Maybe I'll see you in the crowd and be like, well. 27 00:01:11,424 --> 00:01:14,264 Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe tonight at the drinks cocktail party thing, I'll 28 00:01:14,304 --> 00:01:17,544 Speaker 1: be like, that's a girl. She can't sing, she's really tall, 29 00:01:17,584 --> 00:01:18,424 Speaker 1: but it'll work out. 30 00:01:18,544 --> 00:01:21,704 Speaker 2: Well, we're not talking about snow White. We will at 31 00:01:21,744 --> 00:01:24,664 Speaker 2: some point, oh we will. But on today's show, we 32 00:01:24,744 --> 00:01:28,864 Speaker 2: are actually talking about two major controversies that happened this week. 33 00:01:29,144 --> 00:01:31,984 Speaker 2: We have very strong opinions on each one. And look, 34 00:01:31,984 --> 00:01:34,824 Speaker 2: we're not here this shit on the ladies people, but 35 00:01:34,904 --> 00:01:35,464 Speaker 2: we do. 36 00:01:35,344 --> 00:01:38,224 Speaker 1: Have a lot of but we might get emotional, but 37 00:01:38,384 --> 00:01:41,344 Speaker 1: first married at first sight for this week, so one 38 00:01:41,384 --> 00:01:44,184 Speaker 1: major storyline has emerged. And what's been interesting about this 39 00:01:44,304 --> 00:01:48,264 Speaker 1: is just to see how many viewers, particularly women, just 40 00:01:48,304 --> 00:01:51,784 Speaker 1: feel like an overall sense of betrayal at the storyline, 41 00:01:52,144 --> 00:01:54,144 Speaker 1: even though we don't know these people. We don't know 42 00:01:54,224 --> 00:01:56,984 Speaker 1: this man, but I think everyone has that moment inside 43 00:01:57,024 --> 00:01:59,104 Speaker 1: and we're like, that guy was so nice and then 44 00:01:59,144 --> 00:02:02,224 Speaker 1: he just turned. So I'm talking about Jamie and Dave. 45 00:02:02,424 --> 00:02:05,504 Speaker 2: If you're my favorite couple and you're. 46 00:02:05,264 --> 00:02:09,024 Speaker 1: Only like half invested in the show, because I mean 47 00:02:09,064 --> 00:02:11,104 Speaker 1: like you swing in and out depending on what's happening. 48 00:02:11,184 --> 00:02:12,904 Speaker 1: As a lot of us. Do you know, some weeks 49 00:02:12,904 --> 00:02:14,864 Speaker 1: there's not a lot happening. Some weeks we're all in. 50 00:02:15,384 --> 00:02:16,824 Speaker 1: This is actually shaping up to be one of the 51 00:02:16,864 --> 00:02:20,224 Speaker 1: more controversial seasons because of you know, things contestants have 52 00:02:20,304 --> 00:02:22,344 Speaker 1: said and legal things that are in the works. But 53 00:02:22,384 --> 00:02:24,544 Speaker 1: in the midst of all the drama there was Jamie 54 00:02:24,544 --> 00:02:24,984 Speaker 1: and Dave. 55 00:02:25,144 --> 00:02:28,464 Speaker 2: Dave's so hot, can we do so? But also, oh, 56 00:02:28,544 --> 00:02:30,664 Speaker 2: my god, for you because he's like six six. No 57 00:02:31,024 --> 00:02:32,664 Speaker 2: for me, I would never do that to my fellow 58 00:02:32,744 --> 00:02:35,384 Speaker 2: tall women. Thank you, fellow tall women, my friends who 59 00:02:35,384 --> 00:02:35,944 Speaker 2: are tall women. 60 00:02:36,064 --> 00:02:38,704 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, No, I know. I wish I didn't care 61 00:02:38,704 --> 00:02:40,544 Speaker 1: about it, but society tells us we have to. And 62 00:02:40,544 --> 00:02:42,224 Speaker 1: when I see a short woman with a tall man, 63 00:02:42,904 --> 00:02:44,944 Speaker 1: I just think, like my sister in law, I just 64 00:02:44,944 --> 00:02:51,104 Speaker 1: think betrayer. Anyway, when you look at Dave and you're like, 65 00:02:51,304 --> 00:02:52,624 Speaker 1: is he hot or is he just tall? 66 00:02:53,024 --> 00:02:57,784 Speaker 2: But it's not yes, And you also like, we've never 67 00:02:57,824 --> 00:03:00,144 Speaker 2: spoken about it. I was just back to a conversation 68 00:03:00,184 --> 00:03:02,144 Speaker 2: with Pete Davidson, kind of upset. 69 00:03:02,184 --> 00:03:05,984 Speaker 1: I remember, well, I just like Pete Davidson. I do 70 00:03:06,104 --> 00:03:07,464 Speaker 1: like an turtto on a man. I don't know what 71 00:03:08,904 --> 00:03:09,544 Speaker 1: I knew it. 72 00:03:10,464 --> 00:03:11,344 Speaker 2: You can get away with that. 73 00:03:11,984 --> 00:03:14,624 Speaker 1: They just know me better than I know myself. Anyway, 74 00:03:14,944 --> 00:03:17,384 Speaker 1: In amongst all the drama, Jamie and Dave have been 75 00:03:17,464 --> 00:03:19,824 Speaker 1: one of the shining beacons of hope in this season 76 00:03:19,864 --> 00:03:22,024 Speaker 1: of Married at First Sight, And it started from the 77 00:03:22,064 --> 00:03:25,384 Speaker 1: moment they had their surprise walking down the aisle moment, 78 00:03:25,664 --> 00:03:28,464 Speaker 1: because Jamie saw him and she started like cheering, which 79 00:03:28,504 --> 00:03:29,744 Speaker 1: if you saw a hot guy at the end of 80 00:03:29,784 --> 00:03:31,744 Speaker 1: that aisle and he was had a nice smile and 81 00:03:31,784 --> 00:03:33,664 Speaker 1: he looks so happy, be like, oh my god, I'm 82 00:03:33,704 --> 00:03:35,904 Speaker 1: not one of the contestants who'd been paired with someone 83 00:03:35,984 --> 00:03:37,984 Speaker 1: terrible just to get a storyline. 84 00:03:38,024 --> 00:03:39,704 Speaker 2: It was a breath of fresh air compared to all 85 00:03:39,744 --> 00:03:40,824 Speaker 2: the other contestants. 86 00:03:40,864 --> 00:03:43,624 Speaker 1: Wedding, Yeah, exactly. So they had a very romantic wedding. 87 00:03:43,624 --> 00:03:45,984 Speaker 1: They seemed to get along really well together. There's all 88 00:03:46,024 --> 00:03:48,184 Speaker 1: these cute moments in that, like apartments that they've been 89 00:03:48,224 --> 00:03:49,704 Speaker 1: living in, like when they found out they had to 90 00:03:49,744 --> 00:03:51,984 Speaker 1: go to a surprise wedding and she was stressed because 91 00:03:52,184 --> 00:03:53,504 Speaker 1: she didn't have a dress or a tan. 92 00:03:53,624 --> 00:03:56,944 Speaker 2: Relatable, but also one of the few couples that actually 93 00:03:57,064 --> 00:04:00,064 Speaker 2: have been doing their press together, yes, which makes everyone 94 00:04:00,144 --> 00:04:01,784 Speaker 2: think that they're, oh my god, still together. 95 00:04:02,024 --> 00:04:02,824 Speaker 1: They're still very. 96 00:04:02,664 --> 00:04:04,784 Speaker 2: Close to each other, they're like touch each other. 97 00:04:05,064 --> 00:04:07,184 Speaker 1: Well, yes, we do think they're still together, but it's 98 00:04:07,184 --> 00:04:08,664 Speaker 1: hard to say. Maybe they've just come out the other 99 00:04:08,704 --> 00:04:10,304 Speaker 1: side and they don't hate each other and they're trying 100 00:04:10,304 --> 00:04:12,944 Speaker 1: to be friends anyway. What's happened this week is that 101 00:04:12,944 --> 00:04:16,344 Speaker 1: there's been a complete sort of turnaround where all of 102 00:04:16,384 --> 00:04:18,824 Speaker 1: a sudden, they're fighting, and a lot of the animosity 103 00:04:18,904 --> 00:04:22,424 Speaker 1: seems to be coming from Dave towards Jamie, and she's 104 00:04:22,464 --> 00:04:26,224 Speaker 1: feeling very betrayed over everything that he's done, to the 105 00:04:26,264 --> 00:04:28,984 Speaker 1: point where at one point everything kind of ends in 106 00:04:29,024 --> 00:04:31,664 Speaker 1: tears and she gets him to leave their apartment, and 107 00:04:31,664 --> 00:04:33,624 Speaker 1: then they go to the dinner party separately, and she's 108 00:04:33,664 --> 00:04:37,024 Speaker 1: like quite emotionally distraught, like genuinely, not just like amped 109 00:04:37,064 --> 00:04:39,264 Speaker 1: up for the cameras in any way, saying like I 110 00:04:39,264 --> 00:04:41,624 Speaker 1: don't even know who that man is, Like things have 111 00:04:41,744 --> 00:04:43,904 Speaker 1: changed so much. And then you cut to the producers 112 00:04:43,904 --> 00:04:45,384 Speaker 1: and they're saying to Dave, like, how do you feel 113 00:04:45,424 --> 00:04:47,904 Speaker 1: about Jamie now? And he's like, well, I don't hate her, 114 00:04:47,944 --> 00:04:49,424 Speaker 1: and they're like no, but how do you feel about it? 115 00:04:49,464 --> 00:04:51,304 Speaker 1: Because recently you were kind of in love with her 116 00:04:51,304 --> 00:04:53,304 Speaker 1: and you guys were acting like a married couple, and 117 00:04:53,344 --> 00:04:55,464 Speaker 1: he just keeps saying, well, I don't hate her or anything, 118 00:04:55,584 --> 00:04:57,744 Speaker 1: and people are quite upset because it just feels like 119 00:04:57,744 --> 00:04:59,184 Speaker 1: that there's a stranger on screen. 120 00:04:59,504 --> 00:05:03,344 Speaker 2: The like I don't hate her part was so confusing 121 00:05:03,424 --> 00:05:05,384 Speaker 2: to me because like that could be like any man 122 00:05:05,424 --> 00:05:07,544 Speaker 2: talking about any woman, like I don't hate her, like 123 00:05:07,544 --> 00:05:08,504 Speaker 2: I don't even know who she is. 124 00:05:08,544 --> 00:05:09,064 Speaker 1: I don't hate it. 125 00:05:09,504 --> 00:05:12,984 Speaker 2: But it's the fact that obviously with Maths, because they're 126 00:05:13,064 --> 00:05:15,944 Speaker 2: straight up married and they're together for a so long time, 127 00:05:15,984 --> 00:05:17,984 Speaker 2: and that's what a lot of these love reality TV 128 00:05:18,104 --> 00:05:21,104 Speaker 2: shows like Love Island's also another one, like you're just 129 00:05:21,144 --> 00:05:24,344 Speaker 2: with this partner for like so much time, like more 130 00:05:24,384 --> 00:05:26,304 Speaker 2: than just like if you're dating in the normal life, 131 00:05:26,304 --> 00:05:29,144 Speaker 2: so everything's amplified, and you would think, like with Maths, 132 00:05:29,264 --> 00:05:31,824 Speaker 2: I would always say that when you're on these shows, 133 00:05:31,864 --> 00:05:33,984 Speaker 2: it will feel like you're with that person for a year, 134 00:05:34,064 --> 00:05:35,464 Speaker 2: even though it's been like a month. 135 00:05:35,584 --> 00:05:36,264 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. 136 00:05:36,584 --> 00:05:40,504 Speaker 2: And it's the fact that Jamie would tell Dave that 137 00:05:40,584 --> 00:05:42,824 Speaker 2: she loved him and he wouldn't say it back, which 138 00:05:42,824 --> 00:05:46,744 Speaker 2: I'm not saying is necessarily a bad thing. But then 139 00:05:46,944 --> 00:05:49,904 Speaker 2: after that, it felt like there was this big switch 140 00:05:50,344 --> 00:05:53,424 Speaker 2: in how he viewed her and saw her, and I 141 00:05:53,464 --> 00:05:56,384 Speaker 2: think him realizing that he doesn't love her right now 142 00:05:56,704 --> 00:05:59,344 Speaker 2: just felt like a big catalyst for like his overall 143 00:05:59,424 --> 00:06:02,104 Speaker 2: demeanor on like, oh, I don't love her, and then 144 00:06:02,184 --> 00:06:04,624 Speaker 2: like he just went the opposite way, yeah, instead of 145 00:06:04,624 --> 00:06:06,784 Speaker 2: just being quote unquote normal and being like I don't 146 00:06:06,824 --> 00:06:08,544 Speaker 2: love her, but I probably could later on. 147 00:06:08,664 --> 00:06:10,304 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to generalize and say all, 148 00:06:10,584 --> 00:06:12,904 Speaker 1: but I think there is something there of like I mean, 149 00:06:12,904 --> 00:06:14,624 Speaker 1: this is a show to do that on I feel, 150 00:06:14,904 --> 00:06:16,384 Speaker 1: but I think there is that thing of like if 151 00:06:16,384 --> 00:06:18,904 Speaker 1: a man doesn't want and there are studies around this, 152 00:06:19,024 --> 00:06:20,904 Speaker 1: and a man like doesn't want to have sex with you, 153 00:06:21,384 --> 00:06:23,704 Speaker 1: and obviously they have been having sex, that's different thing, 154 00:06:23,784 --> 00:06:26,104 Speaker 1: or doesn't sort of feel that love connections. They sometimes 155 00:06:26,184 --> 00:06:28,144 Speaker 1: something in their mind goes off where they do react 156 00:06:28,184 --> 00:06:30,304 Speaker 1: with anger. And so I'm not saying that's a hundred 157 00:06:30,304 --> 00:06:32,264 Speaker 1: percent happening with him, but I think the reason why 158 00:06:32,624 --> 00:06:35,904 Speaker 1: so many women feel like really personally slided by this 159 00:06:36,064 --> 00:06:37,704 Speaker 1: not in a way that they're just like too involved 160 00:06:37,704 --> 00:06:39,944 Speaker 1: in a reality TV show, but it just feels so 161 00:06:40,144 --> 00:06:42,864 Speaker 1: real like watching it of like being with this person 162 00:06:42,984 --> 00:06:44,264 Speaker 1: being like, yeah, yeah, this is great, and all of 163 00:06:44,264 --> 00:06:46,464 Speaker 1: a sudden, like a switch flips and that it's not 164 00:06:46,544 --> 00:06:48,824 Speaker 1: just like I'm not into anymore, it's anger, which is 165 00:06:48,864 --> 00:06:49,704 Speaker 1: the surprising thing. 166 00:06:50,024 --> 00:06:51,904 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think you're right about how it like 167 00:06:51,944 --> 00:06:55,184 Speaker 2: reflects reality because it's like we're watching some of like 168 00:06:55,264 --> 00:06:58,144 Speaker 2: our worst people we've dated play out in front of 169 00:06:58,184 --> 00:07:01,424 Speaker 2: our eyes, and it's so hard to see it from 170 00:07:01,904 --> 00:07:04,984 Speaker 2: an outsider's point of view because you can see the 171 00:07:05,104 --> 00:07:07,624 Speaker 2: hurt she feels because we've seen it from the beginning, 172 00:07:07,664 --> 00:07:09,744 Speaker 2: like it's there's like no gas slighting in it, Like 173 00:07:09,744 --> 00:07:12,864 Speaker 2: we've seen this man absolutely dote on her and like 174 00:07:12,944 --> 00:07:14,704 Speaker 2: even though he didn't say the word, but like love 175 00:07:14,744 --> 00:07:18,984 Speaker 2: her essentially, and then it just completely changes and then 176 00:07:19,024 --> 00:07:19,944 Speaker 2: the couple swap. 177 00:07:20,224 --> 00:07:21,704 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's the thing. There's been a lot of 178 00:07:21,744 --> 00:07:25,784 Speaker 1: allegations around cheating because Dave was matched with Veronica and 179 00:07:25,824 --> 00:07:28,064 Speaker 1: they seem to be get along very well, like almost 180 00:07:28,104 --> 00:07:30,064 Speaker 1: like the footage of them looks like they were dating. 181 00:07:30,264 --> 00:07:32,064 Speaker 1: And then when he came back to Jamie, even though 182 00:07:32,064 --> 00:07:35,064 Speaker 1: like everyone involved has denied anything happened, but it does 183 00:07:35,104 --> 00:07:37,744 Speaker 1: feel like maybe that was the catalyst for this whole situation, 184 00:07:38,104 --> 00:07:40,024 Speaker 1: but anyway, we'll have to see at the moment. I mean, 185 00:07:40,064 --> 00:07:43,144 Speaker 1: there's so much more drama coming up with Maths, more 186 00:07:43,184 --> 00:07:45,504 Speaker 1: so behind the scenes this year, which is really interesting. 187 00:07:45,544 --> 00:07:48,224 Speaker 1: So it's going to be sort of not the typical 188 00:07:48,344 --> 00:07:50,504 Speaker 1: ending that we expect. I think from how things are 189 00:07:50,504 --> 00:07:53,064 Speaker 1: playing out from behind the scenes, it looks like Jamie 190 00:07:53,064 --> 00:07:54,104 Speaker 1: and Dave are still together. 191 00:07:54,704 --> 00:07:57,824 Speaker 2: I don't know what I want to date that tall 192 00:07:58,784 --> 00:07:59,904 Speaker 2: after how he treated her. 193 00:08:00,104 --> 00:08:01,824 Speaker 1: Yeah, I got the ex straightaway. 194 00:08:01,904 --> 00:08:11,824 Speaker 2: I do not want that. So Gigi had did. 195 00:08:12,344 --> 00:08:16,464 Speaker 1: Beautiful Blonde Lady is the cover star of Vogue's new issue, 196 00:08:16,744 --> 00:08:19,264 Speaker 1: and when the issue came out, like, the photos are 197 00:08:19,304 --> 00:08:22,424 Speaker 1: very beautiful. She's gorgeous, she's a great model, and a 198 00:08:22,424 --> 00:08:25,384 Speaker 1: lot of the stories and headlines that came from the 199 00:08:25,424 --> 00:08:28,304 Speaker 1: Vogue article with a few references that she made to 200 00:08:28,464 --> 00:08:31,104 Speaker 1: Sane Malick, her ex partner who she shares a daughter with, 201 00:08:31,464 --> 00:08:33,984 Speaker 1: and a few little tidbits that she dropped about dating 202 00:08:34,024 --> 00:08:37,104 Speaker 1: Bradley Cooper without getting into any of those things. So 203 00:08:37,144 --> 00:08:39,824 Speaker 1: they came out and everyone's like, lovely photos. We love 204 00:08:39,824 --> 00:08:42,224 Speaker 1: a little bit of intrigue into her and Bradley dating, 205 00:08:42,264 --> 00:08:44,304 Speaker 1: even though we would have liked more. But then a 206 00:08:44,384 --> 00:08:48,384 Speaker 1: video came out and it was called Gigi had did 207 00:08:48,464 --> 00:08:51,224 Speaker 1: Can't Stop the Beat. So it was a cover of 208 00:08:51,424 --> 00:08:55,224 Speaker 1: the iconic song from Hairspray, the musical you Can't Starve 209 00:08:55,304 --> 00:08:57,704 Speaker 1: the thing. We didn't have to play the music because. 210 00:08:59,744 --> 00:09:00,304 Speaker 2: I love that song. 211 00:09:00,344 --> 00:09:01,104 Speaker 1: Do you not know the words? 212 00:09:01,264 --> 00:09:02,304 Speaker 2: No, they're quite fast. 213 00:09:02,544 --> 00:09:03,744 Speaker 1: I know it, but some of us, I mean, I'm 214 00:09:03,784 --> 00:09:05,184 Speaker 1: not going to sing them, but some of us listen 215 00:09:05,224 --> 00:09:06,984 Speaker 1: to that song on the way into work most days. 216 00:09:07,024 --> 00:09:09,504 Speaker 1: So it's one of my high but four work songs. 217 00:09:10,344 --> 00:09:12,464 Speaker 1: That's why I could do it. So that came out 218 00:09:12,544 --> 00:09:15,744 Speaker 1: and it was this beautiful, kind of big lush production 219 00:09:16,384 --> 00:09:20,184 Speaker 1: of that musical number from both the movie and the 220 00:09:20,224 --> 00:09:21,024 Speaker 1: stage musical. 221 00:09:21,144 --> 00:09:23,184 Speaker 2: It looked almost like a replica from the movie. 222 00:09:23,264 --> 00:09:25,504 Speaker 1: Yeah, it had a lot of different scenes, the same costumes, 223 00:09:25,504 --> 00:09:27,704 Speaker 1: the same wigs, the same sort of dance moves a 224 00:09:27,744 --> 00:09:30,504 Speaker 1: bit modernized. And why they did it is that Gigi 225 00:09:30,624 --> 00:09:32,744 Speaker 1: said that she loves the musical. She likes a lot 226 00:09:32,744 --> 00:09:35,784 Speaker 1: of musical theater, and she even said that she performed 227 00:09:35,864 --> 00:09:38,384 Speaker 1: in a staging of Hairspray when she was a kid, 228 00:09:38,424 --> 00:09:40,144 Speaker 1: so she was all in so, I obviously wanted to 229 00:09:40,144 --> 00:09:42,904 Speaker 1: do some sort of video component with the print magazine, 230 00:09:42,904 --> 00:09:45,704 Speaker 1: with the online articles, with the videos, and they did this. 231 00:09:46,464 --> 00:09:48,304 Speaker 1: It's hit a lot of people the wrong way. 232 00:09:48,904 --> 00:09:53,904 Speaker 2: When I first watched this video, I feel actually so 233 00:09:54,064 --> 00:09:55,904 Speaker 2: ashamed that I didn't pick up on Oh no, I 234 00:09:55,904 --> 00:09:56,584 Speaker 2: don't feel a shit. 235 00:09:56,624 --> 00:09:58,424 Speaker 1: I do, and I actually love that you did it. 236 00:09:58,504 --> 00:10:01,704 Speaker 2: Like get Away was watching it. I saw so much 237 00:10:01,784 --> 00:10:07,384 Speaker 2: commentary on the actual video on socials, particularly TikTok, and 238 00:10:07,704 --> 00:10:10,464 Speaker 2: in my head, because I haven't watched Hairspray in a real, 239 00:10:10,584 --> 00:10:13,104 Speaker 2: really long time. I love the movie, but I'm not 240 00:10:13,184 --> 00:10:15,544 Speaker 2: like a die hard fan, and i just know that 241 00:10:15,704 --> 00:10:19,384 Speaker 2: Gigi had did looked like Britney Snow's character. Yeah, in 242 00:10:19,424 --> 00:10:21,144 Speaker 2: my head, I was like, oh, this is kind of cool. 243 00:10:21,184 --> 00:10:22,744 Speaker 2: I didn't know if this was Britney snow songs. I 244 00:10:22,744 --> 00:10:25,184 Speaker 2: thought it was someone else's and then we talked about 245 00:10:25,184 --> 00:10:26,984 Speaker 2: it in today's planning meeting as. 246 00:10:26,864 --> 00:10:29,144 Speaker 1: Soon as I saw the video yesterday, and I wish 247 00:10:29,184 --> 00:10:30,784 Speaker 1: I hadn't thought this because I saw Hairspray like I. 248 00:10:30,824 --> 00:10:32,944 Speaker 1: As you know, I love musicals. Hairspray's in my top 249 00:10:32,984 --> 00:10:34,784 Speaker 1: five musicals. That's a hard place to be. I've listened 250 00:10:34,824 --> 00:10:36,704 Speaker 1: to every musical in the world. When I saw it, 251 00:10:36,744 --> 00:10:38,584 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, I love this, and 252 00:10:38,624 --> 00:10:40,904 Speaker 1: I clicked and to watch the video and I just 253 00:10:40,984 --> 00:10:44,464 Speaker 1: kind of felt my heart sink a little bit that 254 00:10:44,584 --> 00:10:46,824 Speaker 1: this was out in the world. And I think a 255 00:10:46,824 --> 00:10:48,784 Speaker 1: lot of people felt anger. And I know that because 256 00:10:48,824 --> 00:10:50,584 Speaker 1: so many people were messaging me Bee it's got so 257 00:10:50,664 --> 00:10:52,704 Speaker 1: many d You're gonna talk about this on the spill 258 00:10:52,824 --> 00:10:55,424 Speaker 1: like you must be furious, And my whole takeaway from 259 00:10:55,544 --> 00:10:57,904 Speaker 1: is that I'm not furious. I'm just kind of exhausted. 260 00:10:58,424 --> 00:11:00,384 Speaker 1: Because if you're not aware of the history of Hairspray 261 00:11:00,424 --> 00:11:03,744 Speaker 1: the musical, the original movie came out in nineteen eighty eight. 262 00:11:04,104 --> 00:11:06,824 Speaker 1: Then in two thousand and three or like around that time, 263 00:11:06,904 --> 00:11:09,504 Speaker 1: it became a Broadway play. It went on to win 264 00:11:09,784 --> 00:11:13,224 Speaker 1: eight Tone Awards, including Best Musical. Like that's the Oscars 265 00:11:13,224 --> 00:11:15,224 Speaker 1: of the musical theater world. So it was a huge thing. 266 00:11:15,504 --> 00:11:18,704 Speaker 1: And in two thousand and seven, the big screen movie 267 00:11:18,784 --> 00:11:22,104 Speaker 1: remake with you know, John travolterne zac Efron came out. 268 00:11:22,664 --> 00:11:25,504 Speaker 1: The idea behind Hairspray is that it's one of the 269 00:11:25,744 --> 00:11:28,984 Speaker 1: very few, maybe one of the only musicals both on 270 00:11:29,104 --> 00:11:32,344 Speaker 1: stage and screen with a lead actress that has to 271 00:11:32,384 --> 00:11:34,544 Speaker 1: be a plus size performer because that is part of 272 00:11:34,544 --> 00:11:37,184 Speaker 1: the storyline. So, if you haven't watched hair Spray, it's 273 00:11:37,184 --> 00:11:39,944 Speaker 1: set in the sixties and it's about this young high 274 00:11:39,984 --> 00:11:43,064 Speaker 1: school student called Tracy Turnblad who is a plus size 275 00:11:43,064 --> 00:11:46,384 Speaker 1: woman and desperately wants to be on this TV show 276 00:11:46,744 --> 00:11:49,264 Speaker 1: in her neighborhood. She's not allowed to because she is 277 00:11:49,304 --> 00:11:51,784 Speaker 1: plus sized, and she kind of gets into the show anyway, 278 00:11:51,984 --> 00:11:54,824 Speaker 1: and as she does, she realizes that the bigger issuer 279 00:11:54,824 --> 00:11:57,024 Speaker 1: is at play is that people of color aren't allowed 280 00:11:57,024 --> 00:11:59,544 Speaker 1: to be in the TV show because of segregation, and 281 00:11:59,624 --> 00:12:02,784 Speaker 1: she kind of leads this charge around people who are 282 00:12:02,824 --> 00:12:05,664 Speaker 1: ostracized and different to be part of this world. So 283 00:12:06,024 --> 00:12:08,544 Speaker 1: the whole idea of Hairspray is that it's empowering for 284 00:12:08,664 --> 00:12:11,504 Speaker 1: people who are shut out of things because they're in 285 00:12:11,544 --> 00:12:13,224 Speaker 1: bigger bodies, or shut out of things because of the 286 00:12:13,304 --> 00:12:15,344 Speaker 1: color of their skin, basically anyone who doesn't fit this 287 00:12:15,464 --> 00:12:19,104 Speaker 1: very particular mold. So then to remake that as this 288 00:12:19,264 --> 00:12:23,304 Speaker 1: big production with Gigi Hadid, who is a straight sized, 289 00:12:23,344 --> 00:12:25,864 Speaker 1: white blonde woman at the center of it, who at 290 00:12:25,904 --> 00:12:28,344 Speaker 1: some stages yes, is playing the Penny character, but then 291 00:12:28,464 --> 00:12:31,864 Speaker 1: dresses this Tracy Turnblad in the musical. I think was 292 00:12:32,184 --> 00:12:35,944 Speaker 1: really upsetting for a lot of people, particularly because there's 293 00:12:36,064 --> 00:12:37,944 Speaker 1: all the dancers in the background and all the people 294 00:12:37,984 --> 00:12:39,904 Speaker 1: from the background, like it's a big production and there 295 00:12:39,944 --> 00:12:44,264 Speaker 1: is not one plus size person in that whole production, 296 00:12:44,704 --> 00:12:46,664 Speaker 1: and so a lot of people are quite upset that, 297 00:12:46,704 --> 00:12:48,864 Speaker 1: like we had this one thing in the whole world, 298 00:12:48,904 --> 00:12:51,064 Speaker 1: We had this one thing that was a story of 299 00:12:51,104 --> 00:12:54,584 Speaker 1: plus size empowerment. And you know, Tracy does get like 300 00:12:54,624 --> 00:12:56,584 Speaker 1: a bit of a makeover, but one that she approves 301 00:12:56,624 --> 00:12:58,944 Speaker 1: in the show, but she doesn't change her body. She 302 00:12:59,104 --> 00:13:01,304 Speaker 1: kind of comes out on top. And also she realizes 303 00:13:01,344 --> 00:13:04,224 Speaker 1: that her plight is quite small compared to the people 304 00:13:04,264 --> 00:13:06,904 Speaker 1: of color around her. And I think that's also like 305 00:13:06,944 --> 00:13:09,424 Speaker 1: a really good message is like, yes, your thing, but 306 00:13:09,504 --> 00:13:11,784 Speaker 1: also there's a big problem around you that you need 307 00:13:11,824 --> 00:13:13,904 Speaker 1: to like lift others up. So to have that kind 308 00:13:13,904 --> 00:13:16,064 Speaker 1: of taken away And yes, it's just a small vogue video, 309 00:13:16,704 --> 00:13:19,544 Speaker 1: but it's just thinking that, like did no one in 310 00:13:19,584 --> 00:13:22,304 Speaker 1: the room think of this, Like you erase the whole 311 00:13:22,744 --> 00:13:25,064 Speaker 1: background of the musical and what this meant to people 312 00:13:25,544 --> 00:13:27,944 Speaker 1: just for this video shoot and you put a straight sized, 313 00:13:27,984 --> 00:13:30,144 Speaker 1: blonde woman in there. It just like the mind Bob. 314 00:13:30,224 --> 00:13:32,664 Speaker 1: I know, it's Vogue, and that's their whole point is 315 00:13:32,704 --> 00:13:35,264 Speaker 1: that they're meant to be this kind of fantasy element. 316 00:13:35,304 --> 00:13:37,304 Speaker 1: They're not an inclusive brand, like that's just what they are. 317 00:13:37,584 --> 00:13:40,104 Speaker 1: But at the same time, it just goes to show 318 00:13:40,184 --> 00:13:42,544 Speaker 1: like how far that level of inclusion has just been 319 00:13:42,584 --> 00:13:45,664 Speaker 1: completely pushed away that not one person at room said, hey, 320 00:13:46,464 --> 00:13:48,784 Speaker 1: you've missed the entire point of this music hall that 321 00:13:48,864 --> 00:13:50,624 Speaker 1: has this like decades long legacy. 322 00:13:50,824 --> 00:13:54,184 Speaker 2: And I think what's even more frustrating about this is 323 00:13:54,264 --> 00:13:57,824 Speaker 2: the excuses that people and when I say people, I 324 00:13:57,904 --> 00:14:00,824 Speaker 2: mean like things I've seen on socials of giving this 325 00:14:01,544 --> 00:14:04,864 Speaker 2: what do we even call it? Vogue Musical Vogue mass airtime? 326 00:14:05,184 --> 00:14:07,104 Speaker 2: Was that because Gigi headed, like you said, is a 327 00:14:07,104 --> 00:14:09,584 Speaker 2: big fan of hairspray, and she wanted to be to 328 00:14:09,624 --> 00:14:10,904 Speaker 2: get she's a human with a soul. 329 00:14:11,104 --> 00:14:13,504 Speaker 1: If she loves hairspray, that's a big fan. 330 00:14:13,544 --> 00:14:15,344 Speaker 2: Because if you were a big fan, you probably would 331 00:14:15,384 --> 00:14:17,264 Speaker 2: have picked up that this is not okay. 332 00:14:17,504 --> 00:14:19,024 Speaker 1: That's what I mean when she said she's a big fan. 333 00:14:19,064 --> 00:14:21,184 Speaker 1: When she said she loves Hairspray. I was like, yeah, absolutely, 334 00:14:21,224 --> 00:14:22,784 Speaker 1: I can see you and I like chilling out to 335 00:14:22,824 --> 00:14:25,304 Speaker 1: Hairspray and like having a fun time. You're telling me 336 00:14:25,344 --> 00:14:26,904 Speaker 1: that you listen to the soundtrack all the time, and 337 00:14:26,944 --> 00:14:29,144 Speaker 1: you've watched the movie and you've presumably seen a stage 338 00:14:29,144 --> 00:14:31,064 Speaker 1: show and you were in the stage show all that, 339 00:14:31,264 --> 00:14:33,864 Speaker 1: like just a school one, but still and the whole 340 00:14:34,024 --> 00:14:37,384 Speaker 1: message just wh yeah, and the whole message just went 341 00:14:37,424 --> 00:14:39,504 Speaker 1: over your head. Also, you can't stop the beat is 342 00:14:39,504 --> 00:14:42,024 Speaker 1: like a battle cry. It's like you can't hold us down, 343 00:14:42,384 --> 00:14:44,064 Speaker 1: Like no matter what the color of our skin is, 344 00:14:44,064 --> 00:14:47,504 Speaker 1: what the size of the you're down in the lyrics, 345 00:14:47,824 --> 00:14:50,024 Speaker 1: and also like there's some great like color Scolo, who's 346 00:14:50,064 --> 00:14:52,584 Speaker 1: a Broadway star is in it, and Levine Cox is 347 00:14:52,584 --> 00:14:54,464 Speaker 1: in it, and obviously watch her and anything. So there 348 00:14:54,504 --> 00:14:56,944 Speaker 1: are like, you know, moments there where you're like, oh, 349 00:14:56,984 --> 00:14:59,184 Speaker 1: I can see what they're doing there, and also with 350 00:14:59,264 --> 00:15:01,744 Speaker 1: people saying like oh, they just didn't know. But they've 351 00:15:01,824 --> 00:15:04,064 Speaker 1: changed some of the lyrics. They've taken some of the 352 00:15:04,144 --> 00:15:07,464 Speaker 1: lyrics out that allude to food, which is something of 353 00:15:07,504 --> 00:15:10,224 Speaker 1: like different characters saying like, you know, I can't stop myself. 354 00:15:10,384 --> 00:15:11,944 Speaker 1: I see a Christmas hand. But if you don't like 355 00:15:11,984 --> 00:15:13,824 Speaker 1: the way I look, then I just don't give a damn. 356 00:15:14,144 --> 00:15:16,344 Speaker 1: So you knew to take the lyrics out because there's 357 00:15:16,384 --> 00:15:18,544 Speaker 1: only straight sized people, so you didn't want to like 358 00:15:19,024 --> 00:15:21,424 Speaker 1: allude to eating and body size. So you knew enough 359 00:15:21,424 --> 00:15:23,784 Speaker 1: to do that, but not enough to be like, hey, 360 00:15:23,824 --> 00:15:26,504 Speaker 1: this looks terrible. So again, not angry at Gigi. 361 00:15:26,544 --> 00:15:27,904 Speaker 2: It's a bit of a silly decision. 362 00:15:28,144 --> 00:15:30,544 Speaker 1: Just I think it's just like everything else, Like it's 363 00:15:30,584 --> 00:15:32,424 Speaker 1: not like this one video is kind of fine, it 364 00:15:32,464 --> 00:15:35,024 Speaker 1: all pass away, but it's more so just speaking to 365 00:15:35,144 --> 00:15:38,024 Speaker 1: this like bigger issue because I just don't think there 366 00:15:38,104 --> 00:15:40,944 Speaker 1: was one plus sized person in the room, which obviously 367 00:15:41,064 --> 00:15:43,584 Speaker 1: for there probably wasn't, and not just in front of 368 00:15:43,584 --> 00:15:45,624 Speaker 1: the camera, but it's like behind the camera, so like, 369 00:15:45,624 --> 00:15:47,664 Speaker 1: how does this stuff stop happening if there's like no 370 00:15:47,744 --> 00:15:49,944 Speaker 1: one even in the room. But as soon as the 371 00:15:50,024 --> 00:15:52,144 Speaker 1: video went out, people saw it, and I think if 372 00:15:52,184 --> 00:15:54,424 Speaker 1: you saw it in you're upset, that's totally fine. 373 00:15:54,544 --> 00:15:59,024 Speaker 2: You have the right to be. So from one controversy 374 00:15:59,304 --> 00:16:02,864 Speaker 2: to another, I actually love how we decided to talk 375 00:16:02,864 --> 00:16:05,944 Speaker 2: about this because it was over dinner overpasta yeah, where 376 00:16:05,944 --> 00:16:09,624 Speaker 2: we had insane discussion about this topic, and we're like, 377 00:16:10,344 --> 00:16:11,824 Speaker 2: how don't we talk about this on the podcast? 378 00:16:11,904 --> 00:16:13,784 Speaker 1: And this is just the conversation EMM and I have, 379 00:16:13,984 --> 00:16:15,544 Speaker 1: like when we go out to dinner, we just then 380 00:16:15,584 --> 00:16:17,504 Speaker 1: put it on the podcast. We should just start filming 381 00:16:17,504 --> 00:16:18,384 Speaker 1: our catch ups at dinner. 382 00:16:18,384 --> 00:16:20,704 Speaker 2: I feel we don't have to double up. You can 383 00:16:20,824 --> 00:16:23,664 Speaker 2: just hear us eating while talking about this. But it's 384 00:16:23,704 --> 00:16:27,904 Speaker 2: about something that happened earlier last week that a lot 385 00:16:27,944 --> 00:16:30,624 Speaker 2: of people didn't pick up on until recently, and that's 386 00:16:30,624 --> 00:16:33,144 Speaker 2: because of everything that was happening, which was like the 387 00:16:33,144 --> 00:16:36,064 Speaker 2: big Oscars, all the big award shows. So this took 388 00:16:36,104 --> 00:16:40,144 Speaker 2: place at the Oscars Vanity Fair after party, and it 389 00:16:40,224 --> 00:16:43,864 Speaker 2: was during the red carpet where everyone all the celebrities 390 00:16:43,904 --> 00:16:46,784 Speaker 2: come to the Vanity Fair party. They all look way 391 00:16:46,784 --> 00:16:49,944 Speaker 2: better than what they hooked ups, and they still do 392 00:16:50,024 --> 00:16:52,264 Speaker 2: the whole like red carpet old deal, right, like all. 393 00:16:52,144 --> 00:16:53,584 Speaker 1: The interviews and stuff like dew. 394 00:16:54,344 --> 00:16:57,544 Speaker 2: So, because Vanity Fair was hosting, they obviously had red 395 00:16:57,544 --> 00:17:00,544 Speaker 2: carpet privileges of interviewing all the aless celebrities to come 396 00:17:00,544 --> 00:17:04,064 Speaker 2: in the red carpet, and they chose someone named Hannah 397 00:17:04,064 --> 00:17:06,584 Speaker 2: Berner to be the host of these interviews. 398 00:17:06,784 --> 00:17:10,704 Speaker 1: They chose the hosts of the Giggly Squad podcast page Disorbo. 399 00:17:10,384 --> 00:17:12,704 Speaker 2: And Hannah Burner, which is your favorite podcast? Okay, as 400 00:17:12,704 --> 00:17:13,344 Speaker 2: I learned. 401 00:17:13,224 --> 00:17:14,224 Speaker 1: Can you're not out me on this? 402 00:17:14,544 --> 00:17:16,824 Speaker 2: I told you that I feel like we need to 403 00:17:16,824 --> 00:17:19,384 Speaker 2: get background on exactly how much you know about Hannah 404 00:17:19,384 --> 00:17:22,144 Speaker 2: Burner because it's so important. It's also important for me 405 00:17:22,384 --> 00:17:25,424 Speaker 2: for everyone else to know how you've found this podcast. 406 00:17:25,544 --> 00:17:27,064 Speaker 2: I don't want to tell the people because I can. 407 00:17:27,744 --> 00:17:29,344 Speaker 1: I feel like we've been doing this podcast so many 408 00:17:29,384 --> 00:17:31,344 Speaker 1: years now, and one of the things I always say 409 00:17:31,424 --> 00:17:33,824 Speaker 1: is like, I don't really watch reality TV. I obviously 410 00:17:33,824 --> 00:17:36,344 Speaker 1: watch it for work when everyone's talking about it, and 411 00:17:36,464 --> 00:17:38,824 Speaker 1: I watched the Kardashians, but that's not really reality. That's 412 00:17:38,824 --> 00:17:41,744 Speaker 1: also for work. But I've never ever anxiety and culture 413 00:17:41,864 --> 00:17:44,704 Speaker 1: as analysts. That's just pop culture. I don't think the rules. 414 00:17:45,104 --> 00:17:47,744 Speaker 1: But I would never ever sit down in my own 415 00:17:47,824 --> 00:17:50,304 Speaker 1: time and watch a reality show. I understand why people do, 416 00:17:50,504 --> 00:17:52,744 Speaker 1: but I've got lots of other trashy like fantasy shows 417 00:17:52,744 --> 00:17:53,944 Speaker 1: that I could watch in that place. 418 00:17:54,544 --> 00:17:56,104 Speaker 2: Thanks have changed, things have changed. 419 00:17:56,544 --> 00:17:58,544 Speaker 1: So it was an end of last year. 420 00:17:58,624 --> 00:18:00,744 Speaker 2: Let me tell you that you had those tear glasses 421 00:18:00,744 --> 00:18:02,904 Speaker 2: of wine, because I don't think we would have ever 422 00:18:02,904 --> 00:18:03,824 Speaker 2: gotten in this sad way. 423 00:18:03,864 --> 00:18:06,304 Speaker 1: I know I've not told it. We told like one 424 00:18:06,344 --> 00:18:09,464 Speaker 1: perther person about this so last year. So I was 425 00:18:09,624 --> 00:18:12,584 Speaker 1: desperate need for a new podcast because I need about 426 00:18:12,584 --> 00:18:14,624 Speaker 1: four podcasts to get me through the day. That's walking 427 00:18:14,664 --> 00:18:17,624 Speaker 1: to and from work, shopping, getting ready, cleaning. I dislike 428 00:18:17,704 --> 00:18:19,904 Speaker 1: most podcasts, like it's very hard to find hosts that 429 00:18:19,944 --> 00:18:21,424 Speaker 1: you like, and I'm also like, don't tell me what 430 00:18:21,464 --> 00:18:22,504 Speaker 1: to do. I don't want to know. 431 00:18:22,864 --> 00:18:25,184 Speaker 2: It's great to hear from one of your friends, especially 432 00:18:25,184 --> 00:18:27,704 Speaker 2: when you host three other podcasts from well. 433 00:18:27,624 --> 00:18:29,224 Speaker 1: I have all day access to you. I don't need 434 00:18:29,224 --> 00:18:31,264 Speaker 1: to listen to you on a podcast. And so many 435 00:18:31,264 --> 00:18:33,704 Speaker 1: people recommended Giggly Squad to me, and I gave it 436 00:18:33,744 --> 00:18:36,024 Speaker 1: a go, and it was very good and funny, and 437 00:18:36,104 --> 00:18:37,944 Speaker 1: unlike any that's always on the top of the chart, 438 00:18:37,944 --> 00:18:40,424 Speaker 1: it's very popular. I listened to about two hundred episodes 439 00:18:40,944 --> 00:18:44,304 Speaker 1: Fat You Okay, and then the girls on it. So 440 00:18:44,424 --> 00:18:47,064 Speaker 1: Paige and Hannah initially became very famous for being on 441 00:18:47,104 --> 00:18:50,264 Speaker 1: the reality TV show's Summer House, and then Hannah Page 442 00:18:50,304 --> 00:18:52,264 Speaker 1: is still on there and her season's very dramatic at 443 00:18:52,264 --> 00:18:53,944 Speaker 1: the moment and Hannah Lean and you would know that. 444 00:18:55,344 --> 00:18:58,664 Speaker 1: I went back and watched it all. I watched. I 445 00:18:58,704 --> 00:19:02,024 Speaker 1: watched it all in my secret shame, from the moment 446 00:19:02,104 --> 00:19:04,304 Speaker 1: they came on, not the early season. So I've watched 447 00:19:04,304 --> 00:19:07,944 Speaker 1: from season five to season nine, all the way through, 448 00:19:07,984 --> 00:19:10,064 Speaker 1: and I didn't tell anyone about except one of my friends. 449 00:19:10,144 --> 00:19:11,984 Speaker 1: And the other night, I like, usually when we go 450 00:19:12,064 --> 00:19:14,064 Speaker 1: to dinner, you'd like go out afterwards, and I was like, oh, 451 00:19:14,104 --> 00:19:15,624 Speaker 1: I might go home not feeling well. She's like, you're 452 00:19:15,624 --> 00:19:18,144 Speaker 1: gonna come to watch Summer House. I was like, yeah, 453 00:19:18,184 --> 00:19:21,264 Speaker 1: called out anyway. So they became very popular in Summer House. 454 00:19:21,304 --> 00:19:23,624 Speaker 1: Now they had this huge podcast save a book coming out. 455 00:19:23,624 --> 00:19:27,384 Speaker 1: They've just done sixty live shows, super super popular, and 456 00:19:27,504 --> 00:19:29,664 Speaker 1: one of the big things on their podcast is talking 457 00:19:29,704 --> 00:19:32,304 Speaker 1: about how much they wanted to do red carpet hosting. 458 00:19:32,544 --> 00:19:34,864 Speaker 1: So when this Vanity Fair thing came up for like 459 00:19:34,904 --> 00:19:36,704 Speaker 1: the Gigglers, which is what they call their community, I 460 00:19:36,744 --> 00:19:38,864 Speaker 1: don't self identify that as yet, but when I wore 461 00:19:38,864 --> 00:19:40,824 Speaker 1: in the future, it was a huge thing for them 462 00:19:40,824 --> 00:19:42,704 Speaker 1: to host this red carpet. So many of their podcasts 463 00:19:42,744 --> 00:19:44,984 Speaker 1: were about it. There was so much sort of hype 464 00:19:45,024 --> 00:19:47,384 Speaker 1: and build up, and initially when they were doing it 465 00:19:47,424 --> 00:19:48,824 Speaker 1: on the night, so it was the two of them 466 00:19:48,824 --> 00:19:51,064 Speaker 1: together doing all the interviews, it seemed like it was 467 00:19:51,104 --> 00:19:54,384 Speaker 1: going crazy, well until one interview started going viral. 468 00:19:54,584 --> 00:19:58,904 Speaker 2: Until one interview started going viral. So they're on the carpet, 469 00:19:59,024 --> 00:20:03,424 Speaker 2: as LB said, and then they spot Megan d Stallion. Yeah, 470 00:20:03,464 --> 00:20:04,224 Speaker 2: who we love. 471 00:20:04,144 --> 00:20:07,064 Speaker 1: And who they have said previously just to set the scene. 472 00:20:07,064 --> 00:20:07,944 Speaker 1: They are a big fan of. 473 00:20:08,064 --> 00:20:11,144 Speaker 2: They are huge Jennifers and you could tell and they were, yeah, 474 00:20:11,384 --> 00:20:12,384 Speaker 2: I mean that's not though. 475 00:20:12,464 --> 00:20:14,544 Speaker 1: Like again, they came with souls and of course they 476 00:20:14,704 --> 00:20:14,984 Speaker 1: like her. 477 00:20:15,344 --> 00:20:18,504 Speaker 2: And this is what they said during the interview. You 478 00:20:18,584 --> 00:20:21,464 Speaker 2: give so much confidence to women everywhere. What do you 479 00:20:21,464 --> 00:20:22,744 Speaker 2: do when you're not feeling confident? 480 00:20:23,344 --> 00:20:26,864 Speaker 1: My day with you, we were going to cry. 481 00:20:26,984 --> 00:20:28,704 Speaker 2: Don't cry, lie, No. 482 00:20:28,864 --> 00:20:29,304 Speaker 1: You're laughing. 483 00:20:29,704 --> 00:20:33,744 Speaker 2: I know your music has literally like me. When I 484 00:20:33,824 --> 00:20:38,224 Speaker 2: want to fight someone, you want to throw fighting out 485 00:20:38,264 --> 00:20:40,984 Speaker 2: the window, you want to get cued and talking ship 486 00:20:41,104 --> 00:20:48,424 Speaker 2: I turn so great. So the reason why this interview 487 00:20:48,744 --> 00:20:52,264 Speaker 2: has sparked so much backlash and it's actually still available 488 00:20:52,304 --> 00:20:55,424 Speaker 2: to watch on the Vanity Fairs TikTok page. 489 00:20:55,464 --> 00:20:57,464 Speaker 1: I haven't taken it down, which I think is the right. 490 00:20:57,344 --> 00:20:59,944 Speaker 2: Decision, and there's comments on there as well still that 491 00:20:59,944 --> 00:21:03,704 Speaker 2: they haven't deleted. But it's the part where Hannah Bernas 492 00:21:03,784 --> 00:21:05,744 Speaker 2: says when I listen to your music and makes me 493 00:21:05,784 --> 00:21:09,584 Speaker 2: want to fight someone that everyone is so angry about. 494 00:21:09,704 --> 00:21:13,224 Speaker 2: So people are calling it a microaggression, and they're saying 495 00:21:13,264 --> 00:21:17,144 Speaker 2: that Hannah Berner was perpetuating harmful stereotypes about black women 496 00:21:17,344 --> 00:21:20,344 Speaker 2: being aggressive. And on top of that, people are also 497 00:21:20,424 --> 00:21:22,984 Speaker 2: saying that it was an extremely insensitive comment to make 498 00:21:23,024 --> 00:21:25,984 Speaker 2: to Megan in general, because she is a survivor of 499 00:21:26,064 --> 00:21:29,224 Speaker 2: violence and a public advocate for other survivors of violence 500 00:21:29,424 --> 00:21:32,664 Speaker 2: after she survived a shooting that took place in twenty twenty. 501 00:21:33,104 --> 00:21:36,744 Speaker 2: So that was the immediate reaction, which I personally think 502 00:21:36,944 --> 00:21:40,264 Speaker 2: is a fair call out. Oh absolutely, And I think 503 00:21:40,384 --> 00:21:43,544 Speaker 2: after this interview has blown up. So this happened earlier 504 00:21:43,584 --> 00:21:46,304 Speaker 2: this week, it's now just I would say spiral. This 505 00:21:46,344 --> 00:21:46,864 Speaker 2: is the right word. 506 00:21:46,944 --> 00:21:49,264 Speaker 1: Yeah, it has spiled because its spiraled into like not 507 00:21:49,424 --> 00:21:51,544 Speaker 1: just I hate when people say like about stuff like this, 508 00:21:51,704 --> 00:21:53,744 Speaker 1: like the gig he did, like, oh it's a pylon. 509 00:21:53,864 --> 00:21:54,544 Speaker 2: He's exhausting. 510 00:21:54,624 --> 00:21:57,544 Speaker 1: It's like it's not completely a pylon when there's like 511 00:21:57,584 --> 00:22:00,024 Speaker 1: a bigger discussion and an action that can come from it, 512 00:22:00,144 --> 00:22:01,824 Speaker 1: Like you need to be able to talk about it. 513 00:22:02,224 --> 00:22:05,704 Speaker 1: And obviously for people who are like attacking Hannah like viciously, 514 00:22:05,744 --> 00:22:07,784 Speaker 1: which I have seen some people doing, that's not the 515 00:22:07,824 --> 00:22:10,064 Speaker 1: way to know. But you can have a discussion about it, 516 00:22:10,064 --> 00:22:12,384 Speaker 1: because I'm sure so many people watching that wouldn't have 517 00:22:12,424 --> 00:22:15,464 Speaker 1: realized that anything was wrong until the follow up discussion happened. 518 00:22:15,504 --> 00:22:17,224 Speaker 1: And that's how we have changed, hopefully. 519 00:22:17,424 --> 00:22:20,624 Speaker 2: And it's not just like the contents of the interview. Yes, 520 00:22:20,704 --> 00:22:24,144 Speaker 2: that part I personally think was completely awful to bring up, 521 00:22:24,384 --> 00:22:28,224 Speaker 2: but it's also the way they interview, like asking a 522 00:22:28,304 --> 00:22:30,744 Speaker 2: question then like jumping in on top of that and 523 00:22:30,784 --> 00:22:33,384 Speaker 2: constantly talking and being really excited and giggly and jumping 524 00:22:33,424 --> 00:22:36,184 Speaker 2: on the red carpet, And that entire conversation has leaned 525 00:22:36,184 --> 00:22:40,104 Speaker 2: towards the idea of influencers replacing journalists when it comes 526 00:22:40,104 --> 00:22:44,144 Speaker 2: to interviewing celebrities. And would this have happened if Vanity 527 00:22:44,264 --> 00:22:47,184 Speaker 2: Fair had chosen one of their own journalists for this 528 00:22:47,304 --> 00:22:51,304 Speaker 2: opportunity instead of Hannah Burner or another influencer, and I 529 00:22:51,344 --> 00:22:54,824 Speaker 2: wanted to talk to you about it because you're a 530 00:22:54,864 --> 00:22:55,944 Speaker 2: fan of Hannah Burner. 531 00:22:56,224 --> 00:22:59,344 Speaker 1: That timing, but I just jumped on that shit. 532 00:22:59,704 --> 00:23:02,064 Speaker 2: But also you're an entertainment journalist. 533 00:23:02,424 --> 00:23:04,504 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is obviously a rocky path for me be 534 00:23:04,624 --> 00:23:05,464 Speaker 1: his the idea. 535 00:23:05,504 --> 00:23:07,024 Speaker 2: I think you need to be an influencer now to 536 00:23:07,024 --> 00:23:07,944 Speaker 2: get these big gigs. 537 00:23:08,104 --> 00:23:10,664 Speaker 1: Oh, I know, but I just being an influence certain 538 00:23:10,704 --> 00:23:12,904 Speaker 1: a journalist. Also, I wouldn't cut myself a journalist now, 539 00:23:13,064 --> 00:23:15,424 Speaker 1: you know. I think podcasting and giving your opinions very different, 540 00:23:15,464 --> 00:23:17,824 Speaker 1: but you still do. I was a journalist, like I 541 00:23:17,864 --> 00:23:20,104 Speaker 1: was a proper journalist for a newspaper for like fifteen years, 542 00:23:20,144 --> 00:23:21,104 Speaker 1: So I feel okay about that. 543 00:23:21,104 --> 00:23:23,704 Speaker 2: But I would say that your interviews with a less 544 00:23:23,704 --> 00:23:27,584 Speaker 2: celebrities because you are. I think in Mama Mia, everyone 545 00:23:27,624 --> 00:23:30,024 Speaker 2: wants you to do those interviews because that's super important 546 00:23:30,064 --> 00:23:33,024 Speaker 2: for the brand. Personally, I think it's really important if 547 00:23:33,064 --> 00:23:36,144 Speaker 2: you're having those big interviews that you do send the journalist. 548 00:23:36,424 --> 00:23:38,264 Speaker 1: Yeah. No, No, I one hundred percent believe that it's 549 00:23:38,304 --> 00:23:40,704 Speaker 1: two different questions. And I also should say off the 550 00:23:40,744 --> 00:23:42,784 Speaker 1: back of that, like Hannah did apologize and like take 551 00:23:42,824 --> 00:23:44,984 Speaker 1: full accountability. Yes, for that, not saying there's a fan, 552 00:23:45,024 --> 00:23:46,864 Speaker 1: I'm just saying that's like an important part of the story. 553 00:23:47,224 --> 00:23:50,704 Speaker 1: But I think the question about having influences on red carpets, like, 554 00:23:50,904 --> 00:23:53,064 Speaker 1: I think one this could have happened with a journalist, 555 00:23:53,144 --> 00:23:55,704 Speaker 1: and these things have happened with trained journalists on the 556 00:23:55,744 --> 00:23:58,784 Speaker 1: red carpet. But I think also the kind of bigger 557 00:23:58,784 --> 00:24:02,544 Speaker 1: picture question is that as we move into having influences 558 00:24:02,584 --> 00:24:06,024 Speaker 1: at these events, it does mean that you're losing a 559 00:24:06,064 --> 00:24:10,664 Speaker 1: lot of that nuance in interviewing and storytelling and getting 560 00:24:10,744 --> 00:24:13,744 Speaker 1: pieces of content that are more centered on the stories 561 00:24:13,784 --> 00:24:16,104 Speaker 1: from the talent and less about you because you're an influencer, 562 00:24:16,144 --> 00:24:17,584 Speaker 1: like you're there to put on a show, You're asking 563 00:24:17,704 --> 00:24:20,424 Speaker 1: questions about yourself, You're getting them to comment, and sometimes 564 00:24:20,424 --> 00:24:22,944 Speaker 1: that can be great, Like there's definitely room for that, 565 00:24:23,304 --> 00:24:24,864 Speaker 1: but I think at the moment also when you're saying 566 00:24:24,864 --> 00:24:26,584 Speaker 1: you want everyone wants me to do interviews, that is 567 00:24:26,624 --> 00:24:29,064 Speaker 1: just not the case. Like most people don't want a 568 00:24:29,224 --> 00:24:31,424 Speaker 1: journalists to do an interview now like they want a 569 00:24:31,464 --> 00:24:35,384 Speaker 1: quick little TikTok moment, not kind of realizing that sometimes 570 00:24:35,424 --> 00:24:37,984 Speaker 1: the best TikTok moments or the best article moments come 571 00:24:38,024 --> 00:24:39,944 Speaker 1: from asking about the film or the movie and getting 572 00:24:39,984 --> 00:24:42,384 Speaker 1: like a little interesting story and getting a tidbit and 573 00:24:42,424 --> 00:24:44,784 Speaker 1: being able to write that into a bigger piece. But 574 00:24:44,904 --> 00:24:46,704 Speaker 1: at the same time, you want to have eyes on 575 00:24:46,744 --> 00:24:49,584 Speaker 1: the red carpet and influencers and the giggly squad girls 576 00:24:49,624 --> 00:24:52,624 Speaker 1: and people who work in that area have a big audience, 577 00:24:52,624 --> 00:24:55,224 Speaker 1: and I think everyone's just competing for audience at the moment. 578 00:24:55,344 --> 00:24:58,344 Speaker 2: Do you think that influencers are starting to take journalists jobs? 579 00:24:58,384 --> 00:25:03,624 Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely scares me. It scares me too, because look, 580 00:25:03,664 --> 00:25:05,024 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, if you're just getting 581 00:25:05,024 --> 00:25:07,184 Speaker 1: a little rapid fire questions on a red carpet, like, 582 00:25:07,584 --> 00:25:10,344 Speaker 1: it's not make or break for journalism in that case. 583 00:25:10,704 --> 00:25:13,304 Speaker 1: What I think is more upsetting for the industry is 584 00:25:13,544 --> 00:25:16,424 Speaker 1: not so much the red carpet coverage. It's having TikTokers 585 00:25:16,464 --> 00:25:18,864 Speaker 1: and influencers and people who might be great at like 586 00:25:18,944 --> 00:25:21,464 Speaker 1: making a video, but then are going and doing like 587 00:25:21,504 --> 00:25:23,664 Speaker 1: the junkets and the set visits and things like that, 588 00:25:23,904 --> 00:25:26,984 Speaker 1: And I think that's going to tip back after a while. 589 00:25:27,064 --> 00:25:28,944 Speaker 1: It's just the kind of done thing now where people 590 00:25:28,944 --> 00:25:30,944 Speaker 1: are like, oh, I want like a quick TikTok video, 591 00:25:31,384 --> 00:25:33,944 Speaker 1: not realizing that that might not be the promo or 592 00:25:33,984 --> 00:25:36,264 Speaker 1: the story that you want to tell. If that makes sense, 593 00:25:36,304 --> 00:25:38,704 Speaker 1: Like I think things will tip back around. I think 594 00:25:38,744 --> 00:25:41,984 Speaker 1: everyone at the moment, like journalists and movie stars and actors, 595 00:25:42,384 --> 00:25:44,264 Speaker 1: we're in this weird stand off at the moment where 596 00:25:44,304 --> 00:25:46,504 Speaker 1: like a lot of journalists don't want to be asking 597 00:25:46,504 --> 00:25:48,784 Speaker 1: these stupid questions like will you wear this hat with me? 598 00:25:48,824 --> 00:25:50,024 Speaker 1: And what kind of cheese do you like? And all 599 00:25:50,024 --> 00:25:52,664 Speaker 1: this kind of like funny stuff, and the actors don't 600 00:25:52,664 --> 00:25:53,824 Speaker 1: want to do it, but we all feel like we 601 00:25:53,864 --> 00:25:55,544 Speaker 1: have to do it for TikTok. So like everyone's a 602 00:25:55,544 --> 00:25:58,024 Speaker 1: little bit unhappy and everyone's and when you chase a 603 00:25:58,104 --> 00:26:00,904 Speaker 1: viral moment that hard, it doesn't make the noise that 604 00:26:00,944 --> 00:26:03,344 Speaker 1: you think it does. It's like everyone's chasing a viral moment, 605 00:26:03,424 --> 00:26:05,704 Speaker 1: so no one has one. If that makes sense, Yeah, 606 00:26:05,744 --> 00:26:08,144 Speaker 1: it does make sense. What do you think like celebrities? 607 00:26:08,224 --> 00:26:10,624 Speaker 1: So it's like I'm interviewing now like I'm the journalist, No, 608 00:26:10,664 --> 00:26:11,104 Speaker 1: I love this. 609 00:26:11,544 --> 00:26:13,264 Speaker 2: How do you think celebrities feel? Because I feel like 610 00:26:13,424 --> 00:26:16,504 Speaker 2: with Megan the Stallion, I think now when I've been 611 00:26:16,544 --> 00:26:20,104 Speaker 2: watching these red carpet interviews, whether they are journalists or influencer. 612 00:26:20,384 --> 00:26:23,144 Speaker 2: You can kind of tell in the celebrity's eyes like 613 00:26:23,304 --> 00:26:26,424 Speaker 2: usually they would expect just journalists, so just questions about 614 00:26:26,704 --> 00:26:29,664 Speaker 2: the movie, about their career, about what they're wearing, and 615 00:26:29,704 --> 00:26:31,384 Speaker 2: now you can kind of tell in their eyes like 616 00:26:31,424 --> 00:26:33,464 Speaker 2: they're trying to figure out what that interview is going 617 00:26:33,504 --> 00:26:35,824 Speaker 2: to be, like a millisecond before it happened. 618 00:26:35,904 --> 00:26:38,064 Speaker 1: Yeah, you have people like there's now interviews with these 619 00:26:38,104 --> 00:26:39,984 Speaker 1: people going, oh, you're just trying to get something for TikTok, 620 00:26:40,024 --> 00:26:42,424 Speaker 1: like they actually say that out loud. And sometimes you 621 00:26:42,424 --> 00:26:44,824 Speaker 1: have people who will play along. Even though Hannah and 622 00:26:44,904 --> 00:26:47,944 Speaker 1: Paige were like they were vanity fairs correspondents on the 623 00:26:47,984 --> 00:26:50,264 Speaker 1: Red Carpets, they should have got everyone, but there were 624 00:26:50,304 --> 00:26:53,144 Speaker 1: so many very famous people there who didn't come over 625 00:26:53,184 --> 00:26:55,064 Speaker 1: to them and didn't do the interview. And that's not 626 00:26:55,104 --> 00:26:57,464 Speaker 1: because of them. I don't think necessarily like a lot 627 00:26:57,464 --> 00:26:58,984 Speaker 1: of people just want to take their photo and go 628 00:26:59,024 --> 00:27:01,304 Speaker 1: into the party. I don't think it's the kind of 629 00:27:01,344 --> 00:27:04,864 Speaker 1: big pool that people think it is. Yeah, to an extent, 630 00:27:05,304 --> 00:27:07,304 Speaker 1: and in saying that journalists a dumb things on Red 631 00:27:07,304 --> 00:27:09,584 Speaker 1: carpets too, there's a long history of that. So I 632 00:27:09,624 --> 00:27:11,104 Speaker 1: don't think it's this kind of like get out of 633 00:27:11,184 --> 00:27:13,224 Speaker 1: jail free card if you have a journalist. But I 634 00:27:13,264 --> 00:27:15,064 Speaker 1: think there's two kind of things here. Is like one, 635 00:27:15,104 --> 00:27:18,104 Speaker 1: it was this microaggression, the trope of the angry black 636 00:27:18,144 --> 00:27:20,064 Speaker 1: woman that needed to be called out. And you can 637 00:27:20,104 --> 00:27:21,784 Speaker 1: see even someone who's a die hard fan of me 638 00:27:21,904 --> 00:27:24,584 Speaker 1: and the Stallion, like Hannah says like, I've watched your documentary, 639 00:27:24,584 --> 00:27:26,584 Speaker 1: I listen to all your music, like she's very aware 640 00:27:26,624 --> 00:27:28,424 Speaker 1: of her So it's not that she didn't do her research. 641 00:27:28,904 --> 00:27:31,704 Speaker 1: She just said something because we've been conditioned to think 642 00:27:31,744 --> 00:27:33,704 Speaker 1: that way and she didn't pick it up in her head. 643 00:27:33,744 --> 00:27:35,504 Speaker 1: And then you have the other part of the story. 644 00:27:35,784 --> 00:27:39,584 Speaker 1: All of celebrity journalism is becoming very diluted because of 645 00:27:39,664 --> 00:27:42,064 Speaker 1: influencer culture. So it's two big problems. I don't have 646 00:27:42,144 --> 00:27:43,184 Speaker 1: an answer for either of them. 647 00:27:43,544 --> 00:27:49,024 Speaker 2: Well this next week, stay tuned. Thank you so much 648 00:27:49,064 --> 00:27:51,064 Speaker 2: for listening to this Spill today. If you love listening 649 00:27:51,104 --> 00:27:52,624 Speaker 2: to us and want more content from us, and if 650 00:27:52,624 --> 00:27:55,344 Speaker 2: you aren't already, please follow us on Instagram at the 651 00:27:55,384 --> 00:27:57,984 Speaker 2: Spill Podcast. We post a lot on there and you 652 00:27:57,984 --> 00:28:00,344 Speaker 2: can also jump into our DM So any questions you 653 00:28:00,424 --> 00:28:02,904 Speaker 2: might have The Spill is produced by Kimberly Bradis should 654 00:28:02,904 --> 00:28:04,944 Speaker 2: sound producted by Scott Stronnik, and we'll be back here 655 00:28:04,944 --> 00:28:06,944 Speaker 2: in your podcast theater at three pm tomorrow. 656 00:28:07,064 --> 00:28:12,784 Speaker 1: Bye bye, llalla ll it