WEBVTT - Here's When Setting A Boundary Is Actually Necessary 0:00:05.799 --> 0:00:08.519 You're listening to a Mom with mea podcast. 0:00:12.319 --> 0:00:15.839 Welcome back everyone, I'm a Shiny Dante and this is 0:00:15.879 --> 0:00:16.719 but are you Happy? 0:00:17.159 --> 0:00:17.559 A Mother of Me? 0:00:17.639 --> 0:00:20.639 A podcast where we talk all things mental health, especially 0:00:20.679 --> 0:00:21.679 for people who. 0:00:21.719 --> 0:00:22.919 Attend family dinners. 0:00:23.199 --> 0:00:27.479 Smile, nod and then quietly download therapy apps under the table. 0:00:28.559 --> 0:00:29.839 And hello again from me. 0:00:29.959 --> 0:00:32.679 I'm doctor Anastagia Hernis, clinical psychologist. 0:00:32.879 --> 0:00:36.319 Now we all saw the Brooklyn Beckham very public family 0:00:36.399 --> 0:00:39.959 feud situation going on. He essentially chose to go no 0:00:40.079 --> 0:00:43.199 contact and made an announcement about it in a very 0:00:43.239 --> 0:00:47.159 public way the world stage, just casually and probably wasn't 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:48.079 his finest hour. 0:00:48.319 --> 0:00:52.119 Well, today we're going to be diving into weaponized boundaries. 0:00:52.279 --> 0:00:55.719 What they are, how you can set healthy boundaries and 0:00:55.959 --> 0:00:58.799 when to make the decision to perhaps go no contact. 0:00:58.999 --> 0:00:59.879 Let's get into it. 0:01:03.399 --> 0:01:07.039 So boundaries have become such a big buzz word lately, 0:01:07.199 --> 0:01:09.639 and you know, for me, I am all for boundaries. 0:01:09.799 --> 0:01:12.799 I think there's so many layers to it. I know 0:01:12.839 --> 0:01:15.119 for me, I've been a chronic people pleaser for a 0:01:15.159 --> 0:01:16.999 lot of my life, so I didn't have boundaries. I 0:01:17.039 --> 0:01:19.399 don't even know what boundaries were, and I think it's 0:01:19.399 --> 0:01:22.839 really interesting because after doing a lot of self development programs, 0:01:22.919 --> 0:01:25.799 you kind of get to this place where people say, oh, 0:01:25.839 --> 0:01:28.439 get outside of your comfort zone. But I think for me, 0:01:28.919 --> 0:01:31.719 it's been this journey of discerning between Okay, what's actually 0:01:31.759 --> 0:01:35.479 an opportunity for growth versus this is actually not aligned 0:01:35.519 --> 0:01:37.119 to my values, And I think it's just been a 0:01:37.119 --> 0:01:37.879 constant journey. 0:01:38.039 --> 0:01:40.039 Share a bit more about that journey a shiny because 0:01:40.039 --> 0:01:44.079 I've got some maybe unpopular opinions our listeners may or 0:01:44.079 --> 0:01:45.439 may not like to hear. We I want them to 0:01:45.479 --> 0:01:49.799 tune out within the first foot minutes. Tell us why 0:01:49.839 --> 0:01:51.639 you're for the boundaries. 0:01:51.119 --> 0:01:54.639 Well, I think because first thing I think boundaries. I 0:01:54.719 --> 0:01:57.679 know for me, my personal relationship with boundaries is that 0:01:58.679 --> 0:02:01.199 I used to not set them because I had this 0:02:01.519 --> 0:02:03.999 you could probably say, limiting belief, thinking that oh if 0:02:03.999 --> 0:02:06.039 I was a set of boundary, then X is going 0:02:06.119 --> 0:02:08.599 to think this of me, and I don't want people 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:12.279 to not like me. So it was very externally driven 0:02:12.479 --> 0:02:15.359 by other people's opinions. But I think boundaries for me 0:02:15.519 --> 0:02:18.359 now is actually helping me to connect deeper to myself. 0:02:18.399 --> 0:02:20.359 What is it that I actually want? Who do I 0:02:20.399 --> 0:02:22.119 want around me? How do I want to show up 0:02:22.119 --> 0:02:24.679 in this dynamic. So it's taught me a lot about 0:02:24.719 --> 0:02:26.679 myself and learning to put myself first. 0:02:26.959 --> 0:02:29.679 And that sounds like healthy boundaries, because healthy boundaries have 0:02:29.719 --> 0:02:33.039 got to be about us, not about other people. And 0:02:33.039 --> 0:02:36.839 you're reflecting that it helps you connect with yourself, your identity, 0:02:36.879 --> 0:02:37.959 your sense of who you want to be. 0:02:38.119 --> 0:02:40.159 Yes, that's great, Yeah, totally, But. 0:02:41.679 --> 0:02:45.079 I'm curious around how you might It seems like you've 0:02:45.079 --> 0:02:46.839 got a bit of an ick towards boundaries. 0:02:46.879 --> 0:02:48.359 I don't even know if we say it anymore. 0:02:48.399 --> 0:02:49.759 I don't know I still say it. 0:02:50.199 --> 0:02:50.599 How you do? 0:02:50.719 --> 0:02:51.479 Is that the millennial? 0:02:51.559 --> 0:02:51.759 Enough? 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:53.759 I've got a boundary. 0:02:54.799 --> 0:02:57.159 I get frustrated sometimes when I hear about the conversation 0:02:57.239 --> 0:03:00.759 around boundaries. You know, it's this idea of therapy speak, 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:04.799 kind of entering the public discourse, which is fine, it's 0:03:04.839 --> 0:03:07.279 applied in the way it's meant to be. Yeah, I 0:03:07.319 --> 0:03:13.359 think boundaries have been at times twisted to enable us 0:03:13.439 --> 0:03:17.679 to kind of set rules, limits and expectations on other people. 0:03:18.959 --> 0:03:21.999 And that's not what boundaries are meant to be. Boundaries 0:03:21.999 --> 0:03:24.919 are meant to be about us setting boundaries for ourselves 0:03:24.999 --> 0:03:27.559 and what we do and don't want for ourselves, not 0:03:27.559 --> 0:03:29.479 about trying to control other people's behavior. 0:03:29.959 --> 0:03:31.759 I've seen videos. 0:03:31.279 --> 0:03:34.239 And I've read articles and it's like, boundaries are your 0:03:34.279 --> 0:03:36.079 way of teaching people how to treat you. 0:03:36.559 --> 0:03:38.839 And I'm like, i just get so frustrated when I 0:03:38.879 --> 0:03:39.359 read that. 0:03:39.519 --> 0:03:42.319 Because I'm like, really teaching people how to treat us 0:03:42.399 --> 0:03:43.519 like we're school teachers. 0:03:44.039 --> 0:03:44.559 Like it's a. 0:03:44.679 --> 0:03:48.919 Very patronizing, punitive, other directed message. 0:03:49.559 --> 0:03:50.679 Getting bit heated now we. 0:03:50.719 --> 0:03:53.959 Take a breath. Boundary. 0:03:54.399 --> 0:03:56.639 Yeah, it's like teach people how to treat you. 0:03:56.719 --> 0:04:00.399 I'm like, no, focus on yourself and how you want 0:04:00.399 --> 0:04:03.119 to be within yourself. Set those boundaries for yourself, and 0:04:03.559 --> 0:04:05.519 that will have a flow on effect to how you 0:04:05.559 --> 0:04:08.519 engage with other people or don't engage with other people. 0:04:08.639 --> 0:04:10.799 Yeah, totally, and I think it is. It can be 0:04:10.879 --> 0:04:13.799 a bit of that pendulum swing right where it's like 0:04:14.519 --> 0:04:17.559 people like me who haven't set boundaries before or really 0:04:17.559 --> 0:04:19.319 struggled with that, and all of a sudden it can 0:04:19.399 --> 0:04:21.999 kind of swing the other way. Being like I'm setting 0:04:21.999 --> 0:04:25.439 a boundary. It can be quite I don't know, like 0:04:25.479 --> 0:04:27.879 it could be what's the word that I'm looking for. 0:04:27.959 --> 0:04:30.719 It's maybe a bit harsh or without flexibility. 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:31.799 Yes, it's jarring. 0:04:31.999 --> 0:04:34.159 Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it's kind of like, how do 0:04:34.239 --> 0:04:37.399 we explore that middle ground as well, which I know 0:04:37.439 --> 0:04:38.999 that we'd love to come back to you on our 0:04:39.039 --> 0:04:39.679 podcast the. 0:04:39.639 --> 0:04:42.719 Middle ground, the middle ground, the nuance, the gray fluffy 0:04:42.719 --> 0:04:44.839 bits in between. Yeah, I liked what you said a 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:47.599 shiny about the pendulum swinging too far the other way. 0:04:47.679 --> 0:04:49.639 Sometimes we see this for people a lot. 0:04:49.719 --> 0:04:53.319 If there's a pattern or behavior that they have or 0:04:53.359 --> 0:04:55.359 haven't been doing in their life, and then they try 0:04:55.399 --> 0:04:58.479 to make a change, they can sort of overcorrect in 0:04:58.519 --> 0:05:01.839 a way. And look, I've got my personal opinions. As 0:05:01.879 --> 0:05:04.239 I've said, it's not to say I'm anti boundaries. I'm 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:08.559 all or healthy appropriate boundaries that can maybe exist with 0:05:08.599 --> 0:05:09.799 some flexibility as well. 0:05:10.159 --> 0:05:12.119 But I think when. 0:05:11.999 --> 0:05:15.479 We think about like a cultural pendulum swing, I want 0:05:15.479 --> 0:05:18.999 to say, like, where are all the tiktoks on repair 0:05:19.519 --> 0:05:22.639 and compromise and having hard conversations with people you love 0:05:22.679 --> 0:05:24.159 even when you're really angry at them. 0:05:24.239 --> 0:05:25.519 You know, Like, I'm thinking. 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:27.559 About all the content out there that exists on how 0:05:27.559 --> 0:05:30.639 to set boundaries, But what about the other side of that. 0:05:30.679 --> 0:05:33.439 Which is, you know, having the hard conversations and doing. 0:05:33.399 --> 0:05:35.799 The repair Yeah, that's so true. So I know we've 0:05:35.799 --> 0:05:37.319 expressed our personal opinions. 0:05:37.799 --> 0:05:39.519 We got that out of the way. 0:05:40.119 --> 0:05:41.759 What actually are boundaries? 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:42.959 Yeah, this is good. 0:05:43.599 --> 0:05:50.279 So boundaries are essentially what we want or need for ourselves, 0:05:50.319 --> 0:05:53.799 not what we want from other people. So it's very 0:05:53.879 --> 0:05:56.759 much about the relationship we have with ourself. 0:05:57.759 --> 0:05:58.439 It's me and me. 0:05:58.599 --> 0:06:03.399 What do I need in order for myself to function 0:06:03.599 --> 0:06:05.839 in the way that I want to. It's really got 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:08.159 to come back to about what we want and need 0:06:08.319 --> 0:06:10.359 for ourselves, not other people. 0:06:11.079 --> 0:06:13.399 That's actually quite eye opening now that you're saying it 0:06:13.479 --> 0:06:16.119 like that, because I'm thinking as well, like when you 0:06:16.119 --> 0:06:19.319 think of boundaries, you are setting it for other people. 0:06:19.959 --> 0:06:21.479 Yes, like it kind of is. 0:06:21.399 --> 0:06:23.319 In that context, but now you're kind of flipping the 0:06:23.359 --> 0:06:25.719 script a little bit, being like, oh, no, this is for. 0:06:25.599 --> 0:06:29.799 Me, Yes, yes, yes, And I think that's where it's 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:31.879 an important thing to come back to because otherwise we 0:06:31.919 --> 0:06:36.119 can fall into the trap of using boundaries, whether it's 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:39.439 intentional or not, using boundaries to try and control other 0:06:39.479 --> 0:06:43.919 people's behavior, and that is pretty much always going to 0:06:43.959 --> 0:06:46.079 be a recipe for disaster because we can't control other 0:06:46.119 --> 0:06:48.639 people as much as we would like to. Sometimes can't. 0:06:49.159 --> 0:06:52.039 We can't control or change their behavior. All we can 0:06:52.079 --> 0:06:56.079 do is set standards and boundaries for ourselves. 0:06:56.719 --> 0:06:58.919 It's really interesting you're touching on the control piece because 0:06:58.919 --> 0:07:01.559 I'm curious to know from you. Like, then, what is 0:07:01.599 --> 0:07:06.639 the difference between setting boundaries versus actually you're controlling this person, 0:07:06.679 --> 0:07:08.199 and you've got to relax a little bit, you know. 0:07:08.639 --> 0:07:13.919 Yeah, the controlling boundary is other directed. So it's and 0:07:14.279 --> 0:07:16.519 it often feels like it comes with a consequence for 0:07:16.559 --> 0:07:20.319 the other person. So for example, I don't want you 0:07:20.359 --> 0:07:22.959 going out with your friends if I'm not there, that's 0:07:23.039 --> 0:07:25.479 my boundary. Well, that's not a boundary. That's an assertion 0:07:25.559 --> 0:07:29.439 of control over someone else when it's about what the 0:07:29.479 --> 0:07:32.919 other person should and shouldn't do and a potential consequence 0:07:32.919 --> 0:07:35.959 for them if that happens, that moves into the realm 0:07:35.999 --> 0:07:39.359 of control as opposed to something I want for myself. 0:07:40.439 --> 0:07:41.079 Okay, So for. 0:07:41.039 --> 0:07:43.239 Example, let me give you another example. Say I'm trying 0:07:43.279 --> 0:07:46.039 to not drink alcohol, but I still want to go 0:07:46.079 --> 0:07:50.599 out with friends. A boundary is when I go out tonight, 0:07:50.879 --> 0:07:54.599 I'm not going to drink any alcohol. A boundary that's 0:07:54.599 --> 0:07:58.079 other directed might be when we're out tonight, I don't 0:07:58.079 --> 0:08:01.439 want you drinking alcohol because I'm not drinking alcohol, or. 0:08:01.399 --> 0:08:03.199 I don't want you to offer me any alcohol. 0:08:03.239 --> 0:08:05.879 Like we can make requests, a request is different to 0:08:05.919 --> 0:08:08.679 a boundary. I can ask people not to offer me alcohol. 0:08:08.999 --> 0:08:10.479 Do you mean they will or won't do it? And 0:08:10.479 --> 0:08:12.399 if they still do it doesn't necessarily mean they're breaking 0:08:12.439 --> 0:08:14.199 the boundary. The boundary is me with me. 0:08:15.679 --> 0:08:18.199 It's really good that you're unpacking it like that, because 0:08:18.199 --> 0:08:21.039 it feels like when you talk about boundaries is actually 0:08:21.239 --> 0:08:23.759 very open and collaborative. It's just like the energy is 0:08:23.799 --> 0:08:26.879 more open, whereas it sounds like like the control example 0:08:26.879 --> 0:08:28.559 you gave it is like it's a bit of like a. 0:08:28.519 --> 0:08:29.479 Full stop yes. 0:08:29.839 --> 0:08:34.719 Yes, Because ultimately the thing we have control over is ourselves. Yeah, 0:08:34.799 --> 0:08:37.399 so if I'm making a statement that's about me and 0:08:37.479 --> 0:08:40.199 my relationship with myself and the choices and behaviors I 0:08:40.199 --> 0:08:42.559 want for myself, that does kind of feel a bit 0:08:42.599 --> 0:08:46.559 more open. But because I can take ownership and control that. 0:08:46.879 --> 0:08:47.839 Yeah. It's so true. 0:08:48.039 --> 0:08:51.039 And it's interesting because something that we were touching on 0:08:51.079 --> 0:08:55.199 earlier around how boundaries have become this buzzword and so 0:08:55.319 --> 0:08:58.119 often it can start to fall into the category of 0:08:58.279 --> 0:08:59.879 starting a weaponize boundaries. 0:09:00.759 --> 0:09:02.199 Can you tell me more about that. 0:09:03.119 --> 0:09:08.799 Yeah, Well, essentially, weaponi boundaries is using them, perhaps in 0:09:08.839 --> 0:09:14.319 a way that enables us to avoid responsibility of our own. 0:09:14.439 --> 0:09:19.159 If I put my boundaries in the hands of other people, essentially, 0:09:19.199 --> 0:09:20.799 and what I mean by that is they can kind 0:09:20.839 --> 0:09:24.239 of choose whether or not they listen to and hold 0:09:24.319 --> 0:09:27.159 those boundaries, then I lose control. But then there's also 0:09:27.279 --> 0:09:29.999 not very much I can do. You know, if I 0:09:30.039 --> 0:09:32.359 come back to the drinking example, that's got to be 0:09:32.399 --> 0:09:35.239 about my relationship with myself and my own choices, not 0:09:35.359 --> 0:09:36.319 what other people do. 0:09:36.519 --> 0:09:38.119 So do you feel like this comes up a lot 0:09:38.159 --> 0:09:39.359 in your clients? 0:09:39.719 --> 0:09:39.919 Yeah? 0:09:39.959 --> 0:09:42.999 Absolutely, Look, anything that kind of enters the world of 0:09:43.399 --> 0:09:46.039 TikTok and Instagram comes up a lot with clients as well, 0:09:46.639 --> 0:09:50.559 because it's where we get so much information of varying 0:09:50.639 --> 0:09:52.439 degrees of credibility, but it's where we get a lot 0:09:52.439 --> 0:09:55.279 of information from I've heard this analogy that I quite like, 0:09:55.319 --> 0:09:57.399 and I'll often share this with my clients, which is 0:09:57.919 --> 0:10:00.399 think about boundaries as being. 0:10:00.279 --> 0:10:02.239 A gate, not a wall. 0:10:02.999 --> 0:10:07.239 The difference being the analogy of the gate implies that 0:10:07.279 --> 0:10:10.639 there's a door that the other person can walk through. 0:10:10.839 --> 0:10:13.079 So by kind of thinking of boundaries as a gate, 0:10:13.199 --> 0:10:15.999 it's not like you're blocking this person off completely unless 0:10:16.159 --> 0:10:18.719 that's what you want to do. But you're not necessarily 0:10:18.759 --> 0:10:22.239 just kind of coming down hard. You're saying, here's the boundary, 0:10:22.279 --> 0:10:24.919 but also here's the door that can help you get 0:10:24.919 --> 0:10:27.119 on the other side of the boundary. So it's really 0:10:27.119 --> 0:10:30.959 about that communication of where kind of I end in 0:10:31.079 --> 0:10:33.719 terms of what I am willing to accept for myself. 0:10:35.039 --> 0:10:37.359 But you give that information to the other person so 0:10:37.399 --> 0:10:39.639 they know how they can kind of cross over if 0:10:39.639 --> 0:10:41.399 they wish to in the appropriate way. 0:10:42.239 --> 0:10:45.119 And then in a way because I know where unpacking 0:10:45.119 --> 0:10:47.519 boundaries and what it actually looks like. So is it 0:10:47.599 --> 0:10:49.919 that it's open for negotiation? 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:51.279 Do you know what I mean? 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:54.639 Because it's like, hey, I'm saying this boundary because it 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:56.439 is a bit of a comma. It's not a full stop. 0:10:56.999 --> 0:10:59.399 So like, is that kind of where the world of 0:10:59.479 --> 0:11:03.599 compromise comes in and negotiating and those kind of harder 0:11:03.639 --> 0:11:05.719 skills that we we still need to make sure we're 0:11:05.719 --> 0:11:06.759 developing as humans. 0:11:06.919 --> 0:11:11.559 Yeah, yes, look, I would say certainly, you know, when 0:11:11.599 --> 0:11:14.199 we think about the kind of idea of no contact, right, Like, 0:11:14.239 --> 0:11:16.439 maybe that's important for us to kind of jump to here. 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:19.919 There are absolutely times where going no contact is going 0:11:19.959 --> 0:11:23.319 to be valid and warranted, particularly if you're being disrespected, 0:11:23.359 --> 0:11:25.919 if you're being abused, if you're being manipulated. You know, 0:11:25.959 --> 0:11:28.519 there are definitely situations where that's warranted, right, So I 0:11:28.519 --> 0:11:32.879 think that's important to put out there. If we're not 0:11:33.039 --> 0:11:37.599 talking about those specific situations, then yes, I believe flexibility 0:11:37.639 --> 0:11:41.799 is important. I believe it's important to reconsider boundaries at 0:11:41.799 --> 0:11:46.399 certain points in times. It's important to consider particular situations 0:11:46.479 --> 0:11:48.759 where we may not want to hold onto the boundary 0:11:48.839 --> 0:11:51.439 and have a bit of kind of movement with it. 0:11:51.639 --> 0:11:52.399 And that's okay. 0:11:52.479 --> 0:11:54.719 That doesn't mean we're doing ourselves a disservice or not 0:11:54.759 --> 0:11:58.639 respecting ourselves. It just means we're interacting with other people 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.439 in the world. And that's not a black and white experience. 0:12:01.599 --> 0:12:03.919 Yeah, it feels like there's a lot to unpack when 0:12:03.959 --> 0:12:04.519 it comes abound. 0:12:05.039 --> 0:12:08.919 Right, They're complex, and you know, I've been doing a 0:12:08.919 --> 0:12:11.599 lot of thinking about this because you know, I've got opinions. 0:12:11.599 --> 0:12:13.199 I see this content it makes me a little bit. 0:12:13.119 --> 0:12:15.319 Annoyed sometimes, but I've gone down this kind of but 0:12:15.399 --> 0:12:16.959 it's data. It's data. 0:12:16.999 --> 0:12:20.399 It's all data telling me something about myself. I'll unpack 0:12:20.479 --> 0:12:20.839 that later. 0:12:22.999 --> 0:12:25.759 But I've been thinking of this question of like, and 0:12:25.799 --> 0:12:29.439 this might sound silly, but like, why do we have 0:12:29.519 --> 0:12:32.359 this current kind of fixation on boundaries, Like why are 0:12:32.399 --> 0:12:35.079 we so obsessed with boundaries at the moment. Essentially, what 0:12:35.079 --> 0:12:39.199 we're talking about with boundaries is a behavior. It's an action, 0:12:39.399 --> 0:12:43.719 like setting a boundary is something I do. But as psychologists, 0:12:43.719 --> 0:12:47.279 we're always thinking about what's underneath the behavior, Like this 0:12:47.319 --> 0:12:49.799 is what we're seeing on the surface, but what's driving it, 0:12:49.879 --> 0:12:52.559 what's at the root of it? And I don't know 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:54.399 if this example is going to make sense, but I 0:12:54.439 --> 0:12:57.759 was thinking about, you know, let's not imagine kind of 0:12:57.799 --> 0:13:01.079 modern Sydney, but say we live out in the bush somewhere, right, 0:13:01.359 --> 0:13:05.359 and I have my piece of land. Yeah, is me 0:13:05.479 --> 0:13:06.519 putting a fence up? 0:13:07.319 --> 0:13:07.519 Now? 0:13:07.519 --> 0:13:08.999 Why do I put that fence up? 0:13:09.279 --> 0:13:13.799 Because I want to delineate that this is mine and 0:13:13.879 --> 0:13:15.319 in some ways I want. 0:13:15.159 --> 0:13:16.679 To protect it. 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.319 It can still be mine without the fence, right, But 0:13:19.399 --> 0:13:22.439 a fence kind of implies that people may come onto 0:13:22.479 --> 0:13:26.439 my land, and I don't want that In some way, Yeah, 0:13:26.519 --> 0:13:29.079 so I can live on a piece of land, no 0:13:29.239 --> 0:13:31.439 it's mine, but not have to put the fence up. 0:13:32.519 --> 0:13:34.519 Do you know what I'm trying to say? Yeah, Like, 0:13:34.719 --> 0:13:37.439 what is it that we feel like we need to protect? 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:41.719 And is that in some way fear driven? And so 0:13:41.759 --> 0:13:44.279 I'm thinking about kind of what gets at the root 0:13:44.359 --> 0:13:48.599 about like interpersonal ways of being and you mentioned people 0:13:48.639 --> 0:13:50.999 pleasing at the start, and you know, people who can 0:13:51.039 --> 0:13:54.759 fall into these patterns of self sacrifice and subjugation. 0:13:55.319 --> 0:13:57.959 So I'm like, what's at the root of boundaries. 0:13:58.119 --> 0:14:01.159 Maybe it's a bit of a fear of what may 0:14:01.239 --> 0:14:05.079 happen if people kind of cross over into my space, yes, 0:14:05.159 --> 0:14:08.039 and not feeling like I perhaps have the skills to 0:14:08.199 --> 0:14:08.679 manage that. 0:14:09.199 --> 0:14:11.159 Yeah, I get that. I get that. 0:14:11.199 --> 0:14:13.639 And it gets me thinking about like an example of 0:14:13.999 --> 0:14:16.039 you know, dating, you know, like I've got a lot 0:14:16.079 --> 0:14:18.399 of friends that you know, talk about their dating stories 0:14:18.399 --> 0:14:21.159 with me, and then you know, something happens on a 0:14:21.239 --> 0:14:24.039 date or an experience with someone, and then afterwards they 0:14:24.119 --> 0:14:26.439 make a decision being like, oh, I'm not going to 0:14:26.719 --> 0:14:29.239 have X min z I'm not going to And then 0:14:29.479 --> 0:14:32.279 it's is that them just setting a boundary because they're 0:14:32.319 --> 0:14:35.679 protecting themselves from not wanting to get hurt or was 0:14:35.719 --> 0:14:38.559 it actually a valid boundary? It's like, yeah, okay, cool, 0:14:38.599 --> 0:14:41.799 Maybe have the conversation that you want to have kids 0:14:41.799 --> 0:14:42.359 earlier on? 0:14:42.479 --> 0:14:45.359 Do you know what I mean? Yes, it's a hard one. 0:14:45.279 --> 0:14:48.239 And I think that's where boundaries can be really helpful, 0:14:48.239 --> 0:14:50.599 but also do us a disservice. Like I've certainly seen 0:14:50.799 --> 0:14:55.279 people collect boundaries, right, Like I have an experienced collective 0:14:55.279 --> 0:14:57.879 boundary and experience collective boundary, and then suddenly they're walking 0:14:57.879 --> 0:15:02.199 through life quite boundary and that's very protective, but it 0:15:02.239 --> 0:15:05.279 doesn't necessarily allow for the flexibility and fluidity that we 0:15:05.319 --> 0:15:06.639 need in human relationships. 0:15:06.759 --> 0:15:07.559 Yeah, totally. 0:15:08.039 --> 0:15:08.119 So. 0:15:08.199 --> 0:15:11.279 Do you feel like though when we're setting boundaries it 0:15:11.319 --> 0:15:15.039 is it's essentially helping us to not sacrifice ourselves again 0:15:15.159 --> 0:15:17.079 or you know you've been previously. I know for me, 0:15:17.199 --> 0:15:19.799 I've previously been in situations where I'm like, oh, I 0:15:19.799 --> 0:15:22.199 probably should have set a boundary. I fully betrayed myself 0:15:22.199 --> 0:15:22.759 in that moment. 0:15:23.039 --> 0:15:24.519 Yes, yes, absolutely. 0:15:24.799 --> 0:15:29.279 I'm thinking about two patterns or kind of deep seated 0:15:29.319 --> 0:15:31.799 beliefs or schemas that we see in people. One of 0:15:31.839 --> 0:15:34.919 them is a self sacrificing pattern, and the other is 0:15:34.959 --> 0:15:38.359 a subjugation pattern, and they both look very similar on 0:15:38.399 --> 0:15:41.479 the outside. So these are the the yes people like. 0:15:41.559 --> 0:15:43.839 You ask them to do something and they will say yes, 0:15:43.879 --> 0:15:46.159 and they will just go with the flow, and they 0:15:46.159 --> 0:15:48.079 don't want to assert their opinion because they don't want. 0:15:47.999 --> 0:15:50.519 To rock the boat totally. But they do it for 0:15:50.599 --> 0:15:51.479 different reasons. 0:15:52.199 --> 0:15:56.799 The self sacrificing person does it because if they don't, 0:15:57.519 --> 0:16:01.199 they'll feel guilty if they speak their mind, if they 0:16:01.199 --> 0:16:03.799 say no to a request, if they push back on something, 0:16:03.999 --> 0:16:06.199 they will feel guilt, and they don't want to feel guilt. 0:16:07.359 --> 0:16:10.319 The person who has more of that flavor of subjugation, 0:16:11.599 --> 0:16:15.799 they are more likely to say yes because they're worried 0:16:16.239 --> 0:16:19.679 about a negative outcome. So they're worried the other person 0:16:20.039 --> 0:16:22.479 will get angry at them, will reject them, will say 0:16:22.479 --> 0:16:25.799 mean things to them, will isolate them, etc. And they 0:16:25.839 --> 0:16:29.039 don't want to have the negative consequence. So it's driven 0:16:29.119 --> 0:16:31.639 by different things. One is an internal feeling of guilt, 0:16:31.959 --> 0:16:35.039 the other is the potential external response I might get 0:16:35.039 --> 0:16:35.759 from someone else. 0:16:36.159 --> 0:16:37.559 Those are both very common. 0:16:37.639 --> 0:16:41.639 I'm like rethinking about all the times I've done both yeah. 0:16:41.319 --> 0:16:43.999 Yeah, and they're very common, and they're patterns that we 0:16:44.079 --> 0:16:45.679 want to try and break out of, right, And so 0:16:45.759 --> 0:16:49.399 being able to identify our boundaries and communicate them can 0:16:49.439 --> 0:16:51.439 be a really healthy way to break out of these 0:16:51.479 --> 0:16:52.919 patterns totally. 0:16:53.599 --> 0:16:55.319 And I think as well, when it comes to boundaries, 0:16:55.359 --> 0:17:00.679 I can imagine it looking different across cultures too, right, Yeah. 0:17:00.159 --> 0:17:01.959 Very much, so, very much so. 0:17:02.439 --> 0:17:07.159 I've seen a few therapists online talk about this, actually, 0:17:07.839 --> 0:17:12.959 this idea that therapy can at times be very Western, 0:17:13.239 --> 0:17:16.199 I guess in its history and also in its application, 0:17:16.839 --> 0:17:20.119 and when we think about boundary setting, it can sometimes 0:17:20.159 --> 0:17:23.959 be with a view of being quite individualistic and self focused, 0:17:23.999 --> 0:17:26.759 which is a more Western way of being in the world, 0:17:27.439 --> 0:17:32.719 versus more collectivist cultures where the family and a sense 0:17:32.839 --> 0:17:36.559 of honor and duty are perhaps valued more than the 0:17:36.599 --> 0:17:40.359 individual self. And so I think this really plays a 0:17:40.439 --> 0:17:43.319 role when we're thinking about how boundaries can work in 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:44.199 different cultures. 0:17:44.239 --> 0:17:45.159 But also for. 0:17:45.159 --> 0:17:48.559 Me as a therapist, if I'm thinking through a Western lens, 0:17:48.959 --> 0:17:51.199 that's not going to work for someone who has more 0:17:51.199 --> 0:17:52.359 a collectivist view. 0:17:52.799 --> 0:17:54.759 Yeah, it's so good that we talk about it too, 0:17:54.799 --> 0:17:57.999 because I know, even for me, being like a first 0:17:58.039 --> 0:18:03.119 generation that's living in Australia from migrant families. It's interesting 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:05.359 because there's such as a deeper la layer in that 0:18:05.559 --> 0:18:09.079 because we're also trying to explore the Eastern and the 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:12.199 Western world all the same time. So it's like we 0:18:12.239 --> 0:18:14.479 want to be independent, we want to pave our own ways, 0:18:14.519 --> 0:18:16.519 but then we also want to be respectful of our 0:18:16.559 --> 0:18:19.679 elders and the people that have, you know, walked ahead 0:18:19.679 --> 0:18:22.599 of us. So it is there's so many nuances to it. 0:18:24.599 --> 0:18:27.479 After the shortbreak the roadmap, you need to set healthy 0:18:27.479 --> 0:18:34.399 boundaries stay with us, Okay, anathesia, the moment we've all 0:18:34.439 --> 0:18:35.279 been waiting for. 0:18:35.719 --> 0:18:37.839 How do we set a healthy boundary? 0:18:37.999 --> 0:18:39.599 Yes? Good, we're here. 0:18:41.199 --> 0:18:46.199 Okay, So first things first, we need to notice and 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:49.879 recognize that we need a boundary. The best way we 0:18:49.919 --> 0:18:54.799 can do this is tune into how we're feeling. A 0:18:54.919 --> 0:18:57.639 key indicator that we might need to set a boundary 0:18:57.679 --> 0:19:03.079 for ourselves is the feeling of resentment. Resentment comes about 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:05.319 when I feel like I'm doing something I don't want 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:07.959 to be doing and I'm resentful to the other person 0:19:07.999 --> 0:19:10.039 for the fact that I have to do it. That's 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:13.799