Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mom with mea podcast.
Speaker 2: Welcome back everyone, I'm a Shiny Dante and this is
Speaker 2: but are you Happy?
Speaker 1: A Mother of Me?
Speaker 2: A podcast where we talk all things mental health, especially
Speaker 2: for people who.
Speaker 1: Attend family dinners.
Speaker 2: Smile, nod and then quietly download therapy apps under the table.
Speaker 3: And hello again from me.
Speaker 4: I'm doctor Anastagia Hernis, clinical psychologist.
Speaker 2: Now we all saw the Brooklyn Beckham very public family
Speaker 2: feud situation going on. He essentially chose to go no
Speaker 2: contact and made an announcement about it in a very
Speaker 2: public way the world stage, just casually and probably wasn't
Speaker 2: his finest hour.
Speaker 4: Well, today we're going to be diving into weaponized boundaries.
Speaker 3: What they are, how you can set healthy boundaries and
Speaker 3: when to make the decision to perhaps go no contact.
Speaker 1: Let's get into it.
Speaker 2: So boundaries have become such a big buzz word lately,
Speaker 2: and you know, for me, I am all for boundaries.
Speaker 2: I think there's so many layers to it. I know
Speaker 2: for me, I've been a chronic people pleaser for a
Speaker 2: lot of my life, so I didn't have boundaries. I
Speaker 2: don't even know what boundaries were, and I think it's
Speaker 2: really interesting because after doing a lot of self development programs,
Speaker 2: you kind of get to this place where people say, oh,
Speaker 2: get outside of your comfort zone. But I think for me,
Speaker 2: it's been this journey of discerning between Okay, what's actually
Speaker 2: an opportunity for growth versus this is actually not aligned
Speaker 2: to my values, And I think it's just been a
Speaker 2: constant journey.
Speaker 4: Share a bit more about that journey a shiny because
Speaker 4: I've got some maybe unpopular opinions our listeners may or
Speaker 4: may not like to hear. We I want them to
Speaker 4: tune out within the first foot minutes. Tell us why
Speaker 4: you're for the boundaries.
Speaker 2: Well, I think because first thing I think boundaries. I
Speaker 2: know for me, my personal relationship with boundaries is that
Speaker 2: I used to not set them because I had this
Speaker 2: you could probably say, limiting belief, thinking that oh if
Speaker 2: I was a set of boundary, then X is going
Speaker 2: to think this of me, and I don't want people
Speaker 2: to not like me. So it was very externally driven
Speaker 2: by other people's opinions. But I think boundaries for me
Speaker 2: now is actually helping me to connect deeper to myself.
Speaker 2: What is it that I actually want? Who do I
Speaker 2: want around me? How do I want to show up
Speaker 2: in this dynamic. So it's taught me a lot about
Speaker 2: myself and learning to put myself first.
Speaker 4: And that sounds like healthy boundaries, because healthy boundaries have
Speaker 4: got to be about us, not about other people. And
Speaker 4: you're reflecting that it helps you connect with yourself, your identity,
Speaker 4: your sense of who you want to be.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's great, Yeah, totally, But.
Speaker 2: I'm curious around how you might It seems like you've
Speaker 2: got a bit of an ick towards boundaries.
Speaker 1: I don't even know if we say it anymore.
Speaker 3: I don't know I still say it.
Speaker 4: How you do?
Speaker 1: Is that the millennial?
Speaker 2: Enough?
Speaker 3: I've got a boundary.
Speaker 4: I get frustrated sometimes when I hear about the conversation
Speaker 4: around boundaries. You know, it's this idea of therapy speak,
Speaker 4: kind of entering the public discourse, which is fine, it's
Speaker 4: applied in the way it's meant to be. Yeah, I
Speaker 4: think boundaries have been at times twisted to enable us
Speaker 4: to kind of set rules, limits and expectations on other people.
Speaker 4: And that's not what boundaries are meant to be. Boundaries
Speaker 4: are meant to be about us setting boundaries for ourselves
Speaker 4: and what we do and don't want for ourselves, not
Speaker 4: about trying to control other people's behavior.
Speaker 3: I've seen videos.
Speaker 4: And I've read articles and it's like, boundaries are your
Speaker 4: way of teaching people how to treat you.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, i just get so frustrated when I
Speaker 3: read that.
Speaker 4: Because I'm like, really teaching people how to treat us
Speaker 4: like we're school teachers.
Speaker 3: Like it's a.
Speaker 4: Very patronizing, punitive, other directed message.
Speaker 3: Getting bit heated now we.
Speaker 1: Take a breath. Boundary.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like teach people how to treat you.
Speaker 4: I'm like, no, focus on yourself and how you want
Speaker 4: to be within yourself. Set those boundaries for yourself, and
Speaker 4: that will have a flow on effect to how you
Speaker 4: engage with other people or don't engage with other people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, and I think it is. It can be
Speaker 2: a bit of that pendulum swing right where it's like
Speaker 2: people like me who haven't set boundaries before or really
Speaker 2: struggled with that, and all of a sudden it can
Speaker 2: kind of swing the other way. Being like I'm setting
Speaker 2: a boundary. It can be quite I don't know, like
Speaker 2: it could be what's the word that I'm looking for.
Speaker 3: It's maybe a bit harsh or without flexibility.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's jarring.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it's kind of like, how do
Speaker 2: we explore that middle ground as well, which I know
Speaker 2: that we'd love to come back to you on our
Speaker 2: podcast the.
Speaker 4: Middle ground, the middle ground, the nuance, the gray fluffy
Speaker 4: bits in between. Yeah, I liked what you said a
Speaker 4: shiny about the pendulum swinging too far the other way.
Speaker 3: Sometimes we see this for people a lot.
Speaker 4: If there's a pattern or behavior that they have or
Speaker 4: haven't been doing in their life, and then they try
Speaker 4: to make a change, they can sort of overcorrect in
Speaker 4: a way. And look, I've got my personal opinions. As
Speaker 4: I've said, it's not to say I'm anti boundaries. I'm
Speaker 4: all or healthy appropriate boundaries that can maybe exist with
Speaker 4: some flexibility as well.
Speaker 3: But I think when.
Speaker 4: We think about like a cultural pendulum swing, I want
Speaker 4: to say, like, where are all the tiktoks on repair
Speaker 4: and compromise and having hard conversations with people you love
Speaker 4: even when you're really angry at them.
Speaker 3: You know, Like, I'm thinking.
Speaker 4: About all the content out there that exists on how
Speaker 4: to set boundaries, But what about the other side of that.
Speaker 3: Which is, you know, having the hard conversations and doing.
Speaker 2: The repair Yeah, that's so true. So I know we've
Speaker 2: expressed our personal opinions.
Speaker 3: We got that out of the way.
Speaker 1: What actually are boundaries?
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is good.
Speaker 4: So boundaries are essentially what we want or need for ourselves,
Speaker 4: not what we want from other people. So it's very
Speaker 4: much about the relationship we have with ourself.
Speaker 3: It's me and me.
Speaker 4: What do I need in order for myself to function
Speaker 4: in the way that I want to. It's really got
Speaker 4: to come back to about what we want and need
Speaker 4: for ourselves, not other people.
Speaker 2: That's actually quite eye opening now that you're saying it
Speaker 2: like that, because I'm thinking as well, like when you
Speaker 2: think of boundaries, you are setting it for other people.
Speaker 1: Yes, like it kind of is.
Speaker 2: In that context, but now you're kind of flipping the
Speaker 2: script a little bit, being like, oh, no, this is for.
Speaker 4: Me, Yes, yes, yes, And I think that's where it's
Speaker 4: an important thing to come back to because otherwise we
Speaker 4: can fall into the trap of using boundaries, whether it's
Speaker 4: intentional or not, using boundaries to try and control other
Speaker 4: people's behavior, and that is pretty much always going to
Speaker 4: be a recipe for disaster because we can't control other
Speaker 4: people as much as we would like to. Sometimes can't.
Speaker 4: We can't control or change their behavior. All we can
Speaker 4: do is set standards and boundaries for ourselves.
Speaker 2: It's really interesting you're touching on the control piece because
Speaker 2: I'm curious to know from you. Like, then, what is
Speaker 2: the difference between setting boundaries versus actually you're controlling this person,
Speaker 2: and you've got to relax a little bit, you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the controlling boundary is other directed. So it's and
Speaker 4: it often feels like it comes with a consequence for
Speaker 4: the other person. So for example, I don't want you
Speaker 4: going out with your friends if I'm not there, that's
Speaker 4: my boundary. Well, that's not a boundary. That's an assertion
Speaker 4: of control over someone else when it's about what the
Speaker 4: other person should and shouldn't do and a potential consequence
Speaker 4: for them if that happens, that moves into the realm
Speaker 4: of control as opposed to something I want for myself.
Speaker 1: Okay, So for.
Speaker 4: Example, let me give you another example. Say I'm trying
Speaker 4: to not drink alcohol, but I still want to go
Speaker 4: out with friends. A boundary is when I go out tonight,
Speaker 4: I'm not going to drink any alcohol. A boundary that's
Speaker 4: other directed might be when we're out tonight, I don't
Speaker 4: want you drinking alcohol because I'm not drinking alcohol, or.
Speaker 3: I don't want you to offer me any alcohol.
Speaker 4: Like we can make requests, a request is different to
Speaker 4: a boundary. I can ask people not to offer me alcohol.
Speaker 4: Do you mean they will or won't do it? And
Speaker 4: if they still do it doesn't necessarily mean they're breaking
Speaker 4: the boundary. The boundary is me with me.
Speaker 2: It's really good that you're unpacking it like that, because
Speaker 2: it feels like when you talk about boundaries is actually
Speaker 2: very open and collaborative. It's just like the energy is
Speaker 2: more open, whereas it sounds like like the control example
Speaker 2: you gave it is like it's a bit of like a.
Speaker 3: Full stop yes.
Speaker 4: Yes, Because ultimately the thing we have control over is ourselves. Yeah,
Speaker 4: so if I'm making a statement that's about me and
Speaker 4: my relationship with myself and the choices and behaviors I
Speaker 4: want for myself, that does kind of feel a bit
Speaker 4: more open. But because I can take ownership and control that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's so true.
Speaker 2: And it's interesting because something that we were touching on
Speaker 2: earlier around how boundaries have become this buzzword and so
Speaker 2: often it can start to fall into the category of
Speaker 2: starting a weaponize boundaries.
Speaker 1: Can you tell me more about that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, essentially, weaponi boundaries is using them, perhaps in
Speaker 4: a way that enables us to avoid responsibility of our own.
Speaker 4: If I put my boundaries in the hands of other people, essentially,
Speaker 4: and what I mean by that is they can kind
Speaker 4: of choose whether or not they listen to and hold
Speaker 4: those boundaries, then I lose control. But then there's also
Speaker 4: not very much I can do. You know, if I
Speaker 4: come back to the drinking example, that's got to be
Speaker 4: about my relationship with myself and my own choices, not
Speaker 4: what other people do.
Speaker 2: So do you feel like this comes up a lot
Speaker 2: in your clients?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Absolutely, Look, anything that kind of enters the world of
Speaker 4: TikTok and Instagram comes up a lot with clients as well,
Speaker 4: because it's where we get so much information of varying
Speaker 4: degrees of credibility, but it's where we get a lot
Speaker 4: of information from I've heard this analogy that I quite like,
Speaker 4: and I'll often share this with my clients, which is
Speaker 4: think about boundaries as being.
Speaker 3: A gate, not a wall.
Speaker 4: The difference being the analogy of the gate implies that
Speaker 4: there's a door that the other person can walk through.
Speaker 4: So by kind of thinking of boundaries as a gate,
Speaker 4: it's not like you're blocking this person off completely unless
Speaker 4: that's what you want to do. But you're not necessarily
Speaker 4: just kind of coming down hard. You're saying, here's the boundary,
Speaker 4: but also here's the door that can help you get
Speaker 4: on the other side of the boundary. So it's really
Speaker 4: about that communication of where kind of I end in
Speaker 4: terms of what I am willing to accept for myself.
Speaker 4: But you give that information to the other person so
Speaker 4: they know how they can kind of cross over if
Speaker 4: they wish to in the appropriate way.
Speaker 2: And then in a way because I know where unpacking
Speaker 2: boundaries and what it actually looks like. So is it
Speaker 2: that it's open for negotiation?
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Because it's like, hey, I'm saying this boundary because it
Speaker 2: is a bit of a comma. It's not a full stop.
Speaker 2: So like, is that kind of where the world of
Speaker 2: compromise comes in and negotiating and those kind of harder
Speaker 2: skills that we we still need to make sure we're
Speaker 2: developing as humans.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, look, I would say certainly, you know, when
Speaker 4: we think about the kind of idea of no contact, right, Like,
Speaker 4: maybe that's important for us to kind of jump to here.
Speaker 4: There are absolutely times where going no contact is going
Speaker 4: to be valid and warranted, particularly if you're being disrespected,
Speaker 4: if you're being abused, if you're being manipulated. You know,
Speaker 4: there are definitely situations where that's warranted, right, So I
Speaker 4: think that's important to put out there. If we're not
Speaker 4: talking about those specific situations, then yes, I believe flexibility
Speaker 4: is important. I believe it's important to reconsider boundaries at
Speaker 4: certain points in times. It's important to consider particular situations
Speaker 4: where we may not want to hold onto the boundary
Speaker 4: and have a bit of kind of movement with it.
Speaker 3: And that's okay.
Speaker 4: That doesn't mean we're doing ourselves a disservice or not
Speaker 4: respecting ourselves. It just means we're interacting with other people
Speaker 4: in the world. And that's not a black and white experience.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels like there's a lot to unpack when
Speaker 2: it comes abound.
Speaker 4: Right, They're complex, and you know, I've been doing a
Speaker 4: lot of thinking about this because you know, I've got opinions.
Speaker 3: I see this content it makes me a little bit.
Speaker 4: Annoyed sometimes, but I've gone down this kind of but
Speaker 4: it's data. It's data.
Speaker 3: It's all data telling me something about myself. I'll unpack
Speaker 3: that later.
Speaker 4: But I've been thinking of this question of like, and
Speaker 4: this might sound silly, but like, why do we have
Speaker 4: this current kind of fixation on boundaries, Like why are
Speaker 4: we so obsessed with boundaries at the moment. Essentially, what
Speaker 4: we're talking about with boundaries is a behavior. It's an action,
Speaker 4: like setting a boundary is something I do. But as psychologists,
Speaker 4: we're always thinking about what's underneath the behavior, Like this
Speaker 4: is what we're seeing on the surface, but what's driving it,
Speaker 4: what's at the root of it? And I don't know
Speaker 4: if this example is going to make sense, but I
Speaker 4: was thinking about, you know, let's not imagine kind of
Speaker 4: modern Sydney, but say we live out in the bush somewhere, right,
Speaker 4: and I have my piece of land. Yeah, is me
Speaker 4: putting a fence up?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 3: Why do I put that fence up?
Speaker 4: Because I want to delineate that this is mine and
Speaker 4: in some ways I want.
Speaker 3: To protect it.
Speaker 4: It can still be mine without the fence, right, But
Speaker 4: a fence kind of implies that people may come onto
Speaker 4: my land, and I don't want that In some way, Yeah,
Speaker 4: so I can live on a piece of land, no
Speaker 4: it's mine, but not have to put the fence up.
Speaker 4: Do you know what I'm trying to say? Yeah, Like,
Speaker 4: what is it that we feel like we need to protect?
Speaker 4: And is that in some way fear driven? And so
Speaker 4: I'm thinking about kind of what gets at the root
Speaker 4: about like interpersonal ways of being and you mentioned people
Speaker 4: pleasing at the start, and you know, people who can
Speaker 4: fall into these patterns of self sacrifice and subjugation.
Speaker 3: So I'm like, what's at the root of boundaries.
Speaker 4: Maybe it's a bit of a fear of what may
Speaker 4: happen if people kind of cross over into my space, yes,
Speaker 4: and not feeling like I perhaps have the skills to
Speaker 4: manage that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get that. I get that.
Speaker 2: And it gets me thinking about like an example of
Speaker 2: you know, dating, you know, like I've got a lot
Speaker 2: of friends that you know, talk about their dating stories
Speaker 2: with me, and then you know, something happens on a
Speaker 2: date or an experience with someone, and then afterwards they
Speaker 2: make a decision being like, oh, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: have X min z I'm not going to And then
Speaker 2: it's is that them just setting a boundary because they're
Speaker 2: protecting themselves from not wanting to get hurt or was
Speaker 2: it actually a valid boundary? It's like, yeah, okay, cool,
Speaker 2: Maybe have the conversation that you want to have kids
Speaker 2: earlier on?
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? Yes, it's a hard one.
Speaker 4: And I think that's where boundaries can be really helpful,
Speaker 4: but also do us a disservice. Like I've certainly seen
Speaker 4: people collect boundaries, right, Like I have an experienced collective
Speaker 4: boundary and experience collective boundary, and then suddenly they're walking
Speaker 4: through life quite boundary and that's very protective, but it
Speaker 4: doesn't necessarily allow for the flexibility and fluidity that we
Speaker 4: need in human relationships.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 2: Do you feel like though when we're setting boundaries it
Speaker 2: is it's essentially helping us to not sacrifice ourselves again
Speaker 2: or you know you've been previously. I know for me,
Speaker 2: I've previously been in situations where I'm like, oh, I
Speaker 2: probably should have set a boundary. I fully betrayed myself
Speaker 2: in that moment.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 4: I'm thinking about two patterns or kind of deep seated
Speaker 4: beliefs or schemas that we see in people. One of
Speaker 4: them is a self sacrificing pattern, and the other is
Speaker 4: a subjugation pattern, and they both look very similar on
Speaker 4: the outside. So these are the the yes people like.
Speaker 4: You ask them to do something and they will say yes,
Speaker 4: and they will just go with the flow, and they
Speaker 4: don't want to assert their opinion because they don't want.
Speaker 3: To rock the boat totally. But they do it for
Speaker 3: different reasons.
Speaker 4: The self sacrificing person does it because if they don't,
Speaker 4: they'll feel guilty if they speak their mind, if they
Speaker 4: say no to a request, if they push back on something,
Speaker 4: they will feel guilt, and they don't want to feel guilt.
Speaker 4: The person who has more of that flavor of subjugation,
Speaker 4: they are more likely to say yes because they're worried
Speaker 4: about a negative outcome. So they're worried the other person
Speaker 4: will get angry at them, will reject them, will say
Speaker 4: mean things to them, will isolate them, etc. And they
Speaker 4: don't want to have the negative consequence. So it's driven
Speaker 4: by different things. One is an internal feeling of guilt,
Speaker 4: the other is the potential external response I might get
Speaker 4: from someone else.
Speaker 1: Those are both very common.
Speaker 2: I'm like rethinking about all the times I've done both yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and they're very common, and they're patterns that we
Speaker 4: want to try and break out of, right, And so
Speaker 4: being able to identify our boundaries and communicate them can
Speaker 4: be a really healthy way to break out of these
Speaker 4: patterns totally.
Speaker 2: And I think as well, when it comes to boundaries,
Speaker 2: I can imagine it looking different across cultures too, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Very much, so, very much so.
Speaker 4: I've seen a few therapists online talk about this, actually,
Speaker 4: this idea that therapy can at times be very Western,
Speaker 4: I guess in its history and also in its application,
Speaker 4: and when we think about boundary setting, it can sometimes
Speaker 4: be with a view of being quite individualistic and self focused,
Speaker 4: which is a more Western way of being in the world,
Speaker 4: versus more collectivist cultures where the family and a sense
Speaker 4: of honor and duty are perhaps valued more than the
Speaker 4: individual self. And so I think this really plays a
Speaker 4: role when we're thinking about how boundaries can work in
Speaker 4: different cultures.
Speaker 3: But also for.
Speaker 4: Me as a therapist, if I'm thinking through a Western lens,
Speaker 4: that's not going to work for someone who has more
Speaker 4: a collectivist view.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so good that we talk about it too,
Speaker 2: because I know, even for me, being like a first
Speaker 2: generation that's living in Australia from migrant families. It's interesting
Speaker 2: because there's such as a deeper la layer in that
Speaker 2: because we're also trying to explore the Eastern and the
Speaker 2: Western world all the same time. So it's like we
Speaker 2: want to be independent, we want to pave our own ways,
Speaker 2: but then we also want to be respectful of our
Speaker 2: elders and the people that have, you know, walked ahead
Speaker 2: of us. So it is there's so many nuances to it.
Speaker 2: After the shortbreak the roadmap, you need to set healthy
Speaker 2: boundaries stay with us, Okay, anathesia, the moment we've all
Speaker 2: been waiting for.
Speaker 1: How do we set a healthy boundary?
Speaker 3: Yes? Good, we're here.
Speaker 4: Okay, So first things first, we need to notice and
Speaker 4: recognize that we need a boundary. The best way we
Speaker 4: can do this is tune into how we're feeling. A
Speaker 4: key indicator that we might need to set a boundary
Speaker 4: for ourselves is the feeling of resentment. Resentment comes about
Speaker 4: when I feel like I'm doing something I don't want
Speaker 4: to be doing and I'm resentful to the other person
Speaker 4: for the fact that I have to do it. That's
Speaker 4: probably an indicator that I should have set a boundary
Speaker 4: for myself to help me not feel the resentment I'm
Speaker 4: experiencing here. So first things, first, tune into the body
Speaker 4: and recognize and notice that you need a boundary.
Speaker 2: So with that though, because I definitely have mad moments
Speaker 2: by being resistant to something, but then it was actually
Speaker 2: an opportunity for me to grow because then I do
Speaker 2: it and I was like, oh, that actually was really good. Yes,
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? How do we discern
Speaker 2: between the two though? Is that just something that comes
Speaker 2: with time patterns?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 4: So, if I'm repeatedly feeling resentful in this relationship or
Speaker 4: with this person at work, or whoever it is in
Speaker 4: my life or in whatever situation I'm experiencing, if the
Speaker 4: pattern is one of resentment versus resistance, which might sometimes
Speaker 4: be resentment, it can be a few different things, but
Speaker 4: it's kind of a one off or you know, it's
Speaker 4: happened a couple of times, but it's.
Speaker 3: Not a pattern.
Speaker 1: I like that.
Speaker 3: That's the first thing.
Speaker 4: Second thing is then around actually getting clear for yourself
Speaker 4: what the boundary is. You need to be able to
Speaker 4: communicate it in one clear sentence. If you can't, then
Speaker 4: it's probably likely the person you're trying to communicate with
Speaker 4: is not going to really fully understand what the boundary
Speaker 4: is that you're setting. To help people reflect on what
Speaker 4: the boundary might need to be, I encourage you to
Speaker 4: ask yourself this question, what's the boundary going to protect?
Speaker 3: And how will I feel in.
Speaker 4: The future if I don't protect it and I just
Speaker 4: carry on as I am.
Speaker 1: That's a good one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it will help people identify what is actually the
Speaker 4: boundary I need, what am I trying to protect, and
Speaker 4: then from that point I can set the boundary and
Speaker 4: think about the consequences for myself if I don't set
Speaker 4: the boundary.
Speaker 2: I really like this because you know when I think
Speaker 2: about times I've set boundaries with you, because that naturally
Speaker 2: comes up, you know, in a relationship. I think sometimes
Speaker 2: I need time to step away around to actually collect
Speaker 2: my thoughts because in the moment, I might be feeling
Speaker 2: resistance or there's something coming up, and when I'm in it,
Speaker 2: it's hard for me to put language on it. Yes,
Speaker 2: so sometimes it's like sometimes I'm like to you, I'm like, oh, hey,
Speaker 2: actually I'm feeling this. Can we come back to this conversation,
Speaker 2: because then I can go away and process it. He
Speaker 2: understands the way that I process things. So it's just
Speaker 2: like I wanted to share that with listeners that might
Speaker 2: be like, oh my god, how.
Speaker 1: Do I know in the moment, you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, yes, absolutely, the idea of I don't have
Speaker 4: an answer right now, or I need to come back
Speaker 4: to this, or it's not a no, it's just not
Speaker 4: right now. You know, that concept is really powerful for
Speaker 4: people to be able to step into so they don't
Speaker 4: feel pressured to give answers in the moment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 4: So then once you've recognized the need, you've identified what
Speaker 4: the boundary is, it's then about communicating it to whoever's
Speaker 4: going to benefit from hearing it. And again, we want
Speaker 4: to be using I statements, right, We're always coming back
Speaker 4: to I when you know, in this scenario, this is
Speaker 4: what I need, this is how I feel, and letting
Speaker 4: someone know when I feel overwhelmed, I'm going to need
Speaker 4: to step aside and take some time for myself. You know,
Speaker 4: if your boss keeps calling you on the weekend, something
Speaker 4: like when I get a phone call on the weekend,
Speaker 4: I feel quite stressed and overwhelmed about work, and so
Speaker 4: I'm going to need to spend some time for myself
Speaker 4: on the weekends, you know, being able to communicate your
Speaker 4: own emotional experience and the boundary you're setting for yourself.
Speaker 2: Up next another why we like this bizarre behavior?
Speaker 1: Unpacked?
Speaker 3: Do you understand how your behavior is confusing?
Speaker 1: Fine?
Speaker 3: Dial Why are we like this?
Speaker 4: The best way to understand behavior, We'll still look at
Speaker 4: the causes of an action.
Speaker 1: So why are we like this? So why do we
Speaker 1: google things we already know?
Speaker 2: I can do a bit of a reframe. Why do
Speaker 2: we chatch you big teeth that we already know?
Speaker 3: Yes, I like this. I'm certainly guilty of this.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, you've seen those funny memes going around where
Speaker 4: like people like look in their partner's phone and they've
Speaker 4: like done on the calculator, like.
Speaker 3: Nine minus three. They're like, what do I do it? Numbers?
Speaker 4: I'm like, let me just double check what just in
Speaker 4: case it changed since last time.
Speaker 2: It's so funny because we've evolved. The calculator now ISBT.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 1: True.
Speaker 3: There's an idea of cognitive offloading.
Speaker 4: We sort of outsourced bits of mental work to technology
Speaker 4: and tools that we have available for us. If we
Speaker 4: think about, like we only have limited cognitive and mental
Speaker 4: resources per day, and even though you know, nine minus
Speaker 4: three might be really quick and easy to do, it
Speaker 4: still does require a little bit of sort of mental
Speaker 4: process up there. So the more we're using our brain
Speaker 4: through the day, the more tired we can get, the
Speaker 4: more fatigued we can get.
Speaker 1: To.
Speaker 4: This idea of sometimes googling things we already know does
Speaker 4: help us conserve some of our amitive resources, but it
Speaker 4: can also be a bit of a sort of you know, driven.
Speaker 3: By doubt as well.
Speaker 4: We're doubting ourselves and we want to just do that
Speaker 4: double check to make sure we're remembering correctly. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I feel like I could definitely be the latter part,
Speaker 2: like just doubting myself and be like, ah, let me
Speaker 2: just make sure. Or maybe there's a perspective I don't
Speaker 2: know about a particular topic that I could add to it.
Speaker 2: Or sometimes I just want to be validated by my brilliance,
Speaker 2: so you know, hey, I will do that for you. Yeah, yeah, Okay, Anastasia,
Speaker 2: can you give us the main takeaways from today's episode?
Speaker 1: I sure can.
Speaker 4: First of all, boundaries are about what we want a
Speaker 4: need for ourselves, not from other people. Secondly, think of
Speaker 4: boundaries as gates, not walls. Third, don't use boundaries to
Speaker 4: try and control other people's behavior. And lastly, ensure that
Speaker 4: when you do set a boundary, you're communicating it in
Speaker 4: a clear and concise way so the other person can understand.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for tuning in to hear us on
Speaker 2: this podcast. We're keen to hear how you're liking the
Speaker 2: episodes and if you have any ideas of topics we
Speaker 2: should cover, get in touch with us the links in
Speaker 2: our show notes to let us know or review us
Speaker 2: on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, and make sure you're following
Speaker 2: us on both platforms to be notified when new episodes drop.
Speaker 4: And while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't a
Speaker 4: substitute for therapy or a diagnosis. Always take what we
Speaker 4: share here in the context of your own health and
Speaker 4: personal experience. If anything we talked about today brought up
Speaker 4: any difficult feelings for you, there are links to more
Speaker 4: resources in the show notes, and of course there are
Speaker 4: always organizations like Beyond Blue and Lifeline that are available
Speaker 4: to help.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening and let us know what you thought
Speaker 2: of today's episode.
Speaker 1: See you next time.
Speaker 4: Bye, Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land
Speaker 4: and waters that this podcast is recorded on.