Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. Mama Mia acknowledges the
Speaker 1: traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is
Speaker 1: recorded on.
Speaker 2: Whoever said orange is a new pink with seriously disturved
Speaker 2: laurels for spraying groundbreaking? Oh my god, you have to
Speaker 2: do it. You live for fashion.
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Nothing to Wear, the podcast that
Speaker 1: solves fashion problems and levels up your wardrobe. I'm Lee Campbell,
Speaker 1: and every week I talk to an expert who helps
Speaker 1: us work out how to get more out of the
Speaker 1: clothes we already own and tells us exactly what is
Speaker 1: and importantly what isn't worth adding to our wardrobes. We
Speaker 1: will all face it eventually, perimenopause and menopause. As I
Speaker 1: enter my own experience, I'm learning just how many symptoms
Speaker 1: can come along with the transition for a full rundown
Speaker 1: on perimenopause and menopause and this whole life stage. I
Speaker 1: could not recommend more. Hollywayen WRTS podcast mid deep dive
Speaker 1: on that whole life stage. Here, though, we're focusing on
Speaker 1: how these changes impact our body. Because there's a body
Speaker 1: type and a body shape, and hormones like to mess
Speaker 1: with all of that, and in turn that might change
Speaker 1: our fashion choices. I've brought back stylist and color expert
Speaker 1: Kim Crowley to explain how our body shapes evolve and
Speaker 1: how we can dress in harmony with these changes rather
Speaker 1: than fighting against them. So, Kim, first you came and
Speaker 1: blew our mind with color. Now we're going to talk
Speaker 1: about body shapes, particularly how they relate to dressing for
Speaker 1: perimenopause and menopause. I am at the opening cave of
Speaker 1: tunnel of perity and I'm feeling all kinds of ways.
Speaker 1: So you want to talk about how our bodies change,
Speaker 1: how to understand our body shape, how to dress for that,
Speaker 1: what flattering even means. So when we say flattering, because
Speaker 1: things have changed a lot and language is changing in
Speaker 1: the industry, which is good. Absolutely talk to me about shapes, silhouettes,
Speaker 1: tell me everything you know.
Speaker 2: We might have a hero up. But I do premise
Speaker 2: this chat by saying that I have these conversations with
Speaker 2: menopausal women, but it's all the dressing strategies and concepts
Speaker 2: are relevant for any woman who's struggling to flatter her body,
Speaker 2: to work out what she feels good in she feels exactly.
Speaker 1: Because Maya talks a lot about when she started to
Speaker 1: go through menopause. She said, her body is trying to
Speaker 1: become a circle.
Speaker 2: Yes that, yes, absolutely, that blob, that circle, that rounding,
Speaker 2: that's what we're going to get to. So we're gonna
Speaker 2: hover over that body shape quite a lot.
Speaker 1: Okay, gosh, we've got a lot to look forward to,
Speaker 1: don't we. All right, so can you begin by describing
Speaker 1: the terms or the different body shapes for women, because
Speaker 1: back when I worked in magazines, gosh, there was apples
Speaker 1: and peers, and yeah, you're probably bringing the perspective of
Speaker 1: creating clothes for women.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and the different shapes of women. And that's why
Speaker 2: being able to give some guidelines around body type is
Speaker 2: brilliant because then it helps with the kind of guidelines
Speaker 2: to what will suit one shape versus another, because obviously
Speaker 2: we're all different. Yes, So generally there's five different female
Speaker 2: body types which are often compared to fruit au, geometric
Speaker 2: shapes and all of the beautiful things that we're compared
Speaker 2: to as women. Yes, however, I have a sixth which
Speaker 2: we'll talk about as well as we kind of go through.
Speaker 2: But the way I measure body type is much more
Speaker 2: by I rather than with the tape measure.
Speaker 1: That gets very scientific and also you can sometimes just
Speaker 1: don't feel great getting out the measuring table.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't put a measure tacher in a body's body.
Speaker 2: But basically the way I measure is to compare our
Speaker 2: bodies horizontally, Okay, on the horizontal and then on the vertical,
Speaker 2: like as if I was lying down you mean looking, yes,
Speaker 2: looking outside to side, Okay, So horizontally, that's about our
Speaker 2: two widest parts we might have as women. So number
Speaker 2: one is shoulder and orbust, so this upper region as
Speaker 2: I call it, and then number two is hip and
Speaker 2: or thight lower region as I call it, And that's
Speaker 2: how I'll refer to upper region body lower region, Okay.
Speaker 2: And our body type is how balanced or unbalanced those
Speaker 2: two areas are. That's a lot of what basically when
Speaker 2: we're judging it and we're trying to define it, that's
Speaker 2: what we're kind of looking at.
Speaker 1: So women can kind of work this out by looking
Speaker 1: in the mirror and figuring and nickers in the swimmers
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 2: No tape measure ideally in your undies ideally because they're
Speaker 2: flatter generally, Yeah, you can get a bit more of
Speaker 2: a kind of understanding, okay, And often we get confused
Speaker 2: because a lot of female body types are a combination
Speaker 2: of two, and that's when it gets complicated.
Speaker 1: And or has changed. So you used to be this,
Speaker 1: now your body's this one, and that's why the clothes
Speaker 1: you used to love don't feel the same.
Speaker 2: And this is why it's hard, because we might have
Speaker 2: nailed what we used to be, but oh yeah, I've
Speaker 2: got this look, and then fashion changes, or our body changes,
Speaker 2: or our likes and dislikes changes, all of them exactly,
Speaker 2: all at the same time. It feels like over the
Speaker 2: same week, and then you're coming out there and going, oh,
Speaker 2: got nothing to wear exactly. That's what you're here for exactly.
Speaker 1: Okay. So we're going to learn how to work out
Speaker 1: our proportions and then work out what makes us feel great.
Speaker 1: Can you kick things off with the first body type?
Speaker 1: So a rectangle slash athletic? Yes, what is this?
Speaker 2: So this is when you're pretty balanced from your top
Speaker 2: region to your bottom region and with very little curved
Speaker 2: through your body, so you resemble more of a rectangle
Speaker 2: basically from shoulder to hip. Generally you're pretty lean. You
Speaker 2: don't tend to put on weight very easily, otherwise known
Speaker 2: as an ectomorph, and this is actually one of the
Speaker 2: most common body types.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, interesting triangle, rectangle, Sorry, tangle, I'm not very
Speaker 1: good with my shapes. What's number two? Am I getting
Speaker 1: ahead of myself?
Speaker 2: Inverted triangle? That is exactly the next one inverted, So
Speaker 2: inverted triangle, so the point is at the bottom. So
Speaker 2: an upside down capital a.
Speaker 1: Okay, I like it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So this is when you're broadest at your top region,
Speaker 2: then you taper towards your hip and thigh, otherwise known
Speaker 2: as a mesomorph. You want to get scientific, but we
Speaker 2: don't have to. You can have a tendency to feel
Speaker 2: top heavy because your shoulder and your bust is your
Speaker 2: widest part. Generally your leg's your best feature, so that's
Speaker 2: often what we want to kind of show off.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, that's a upside down triangle. N three A pair. Okay,
Speaker 1: so appair a lot of women appears quite a lot
Speaker 1: of women, Are you know, raproductive stuff happening?
Speaker 2: Yes, But the thing is we're not often as big
Speaker 2: or as heavy down there as often we might think.
Speaker 2: So sometimes we feel heavy down there, but actually when
Speaker 2: we look at ourselves. I'm not actually you're not a
Speaker 2: pair because when you look in front of the mirror,
Speaker 2: your shoulder and your hip or thigh actually balance out beautifully.
Speaker 2: Do you see what I mean?
Speaker 1: Yes, but no, I want to take all my clothes
Speaker 1: off a look in the mirror, but I won't right now.
Speaker 1: But this is interesting.
Speaker 2: Often they can be a lot more balanced than we think. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's really interesting. Okay, So a pair is more She's
Speaker 2: basically the complete opposite to number two, opposite to the
Speaker 2: inverted triangle. She is more of a capital a shape.
Speaker 2: She is heavier around the thigh and the bottom, and
Speaker 2: then tapers towards the shoulder. Okay, So basically, lots of
Speaker 2: my pear shapes are very slim waists in comparison to
Speaker 2: their widest parts, so they're often emphasizing that waist. And
Speaker 2: then they have a beautiful curve out and over the hip.
Speaker 2: So you see them and they just look very feminine
Speaker 2: and quite gorgeous. We're looking at a horizontal, but we're
Speaker 2: also looking at a vertical. What I mean by that
Speaker 2: when I'm talking vertical is your torso length versus your
Speaker 2: leg length.
Speaker 1: Okay, and kind of cutting out body in half exactly
Speaker 1: the top and then the bottom.
Speaker 2: Exactly, so it's about four had lengths on the top
Speaker 2: and then four on the bottom. Okay. And so basically
Speaker 2: what generally happens as a pair, if you're putting most
Speaker 2: of your weight on on your bottom of body, generally
Speaker 2: that's where you're the shortest. So often my pairs will
Speaker 2: have longer torsos, and then because they have shorter legs,
Speaker 2: that's where they'll put on their weight. Okay, does that
Speaker 2: make sense? And that's often the case. Obviously I'm generalizing.
Speaker 1: A bit, yea.
Speaker 2: If we've got a longer torso we're spreading out our
Speaker 2: weight over a longer space, and our bottom of body
Speaker 2: is our shortest, and that's where we put on weight,
Speaker 2: and we feel heavier in those areas.
Speaker 1: Okay. So what's number four is.
Speaker 2: An hour glass? Okay, because when we're talking about our glass,
Speaker 2: our glasses, when we're basically two triangles, comes in at
Speaker 2: the waist. So basically her top region is a similar
Speaker 2: dress sizes to the bottom region, but curving in considerably
Speaker 2: at the waist.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: So if we use like the old school measurement of
Speaker 2: defining an outlage. You have to be something I think
Speaker 2: it's nine inches or something different between.
Speaker 1: There was like specific measurements. Oh yes, wow, that's very prescriptive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly exactly, and because you know, back along it
Speaker 2: might have been that obviously, you know, we were particular shapes.
Speaker 2: But nowadays, I mean, diet has changed, the way we
Speaker 2: live has changed a lot. So that's why I mean
Speaker 2: more often a combination of two.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, you know, we're celebrating individuality in exactly fully
Speaker 1: putting everyone in these buckets. But this is a general guide.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and we kind of need guides in a way
Speaker 2: to be able to put guidelines because a lot of
Speaker 2: my pairs might not feel very comfortable in a pencil skirt, yes,
Speaker 2: but they would feel more happy in an a line
Speaker 2: skirt that works with their beautiful body shapes.
Speaker 1: Sure, does that make sense totally? So it helps cut
Speaker 1: out a lot of the clutter to start with. And
Speaker 1: you start looking for particular shapes and you think you're
Speaker 1: going to feel good in.
Speaker 2: It's all about flipping script. It's about emphasizing and enjoying
Speaker 2: our best bits rather than going, oh my worst bit
Speaker 2: is this, and I'm do you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: we're flipping it and thinking, actually, I love my long
Speaker 2: legs for example, with an inverted triangle for example, And
Speaker 2: so they'll enjoy that and they'll wear and buy garments
Speaker 2: that emphasize that, and it.
Speaker 1: Just helps to go shopping or once you know this information,
Speaker 1: reassess what's in your order and you're like, oh, that's
Speaker 1: why those.
Speaker 2: Exactly, because it's actually putting a bit of science around it,
Speaker 2: and why those geometric shapes. Although I hate, you know,
Speaker 2: using a lot of those fruit and the shapes, it
Speaker 2: kind of does give us a visual and then you
Speaker 2: can kind of understand what you put the science behind it,
Speaker 2: and it will makes sense. Ah, that's why I go.
Speaker 1: For that neckliine exactly. I've avoided that exactly.
Speaker 2: So a lot of my inverted triangles that feel broader
Speaker 2: across their shoulder. I think it is an amazing thing.
Speaker 2: Your look is stronger and all the rest of it.
Speaker 2: But they might not want to look even wider, so
Speaker 2: they avoid puffs in their sleeves, they avoid heavy shoulder.
Speaker 1: But perhaps I haven't really even known why they're drawn
Speaker 1: to certain Okay, yes, because it's important, I guess also
Speaker 1: to point out that these shapes can any size, size
Speaker 1: six can be size twenty six. Size.
Speaker 2: Not about size at all. You know what I do
Speaker 2: here and really upsets me is a lot of women
Speaker 2: come to me and they're like, oh, I'm sorry, but
Speaker 2: I'm a size twenty. I'm like, why are you apologizing
Speaker 2: to me? I don't care what size you are. Don
Speaker 2: I just care that you know how to wear the
Speaker 2: clothes that are meant for you, because certain clothes aren't
Speaker 2: meant for you. It's the same mccolor.
Speaker 1: I just know how to find stuff that makes it
Speaker 1: feel absolutely.
Speaker 2: I want to introduce you to brands. I want to
Speaker 2: introduce to stiles. I want to introduce you to fabrics, cuts,
Speaker 2: and also little design details that mean that you're gonna
Speaker 2: love and wear this garment.
Speaker 1: And look forward to getting rinkly exactly. Not about size.
Speaker 1: I like that size at all. Flattering. We hear this
Speaker 1: is very flattering on this person that person. Flattering is
Speaker 1: an interesting word and it's been evaluated because I could
Speaker 1: wear a jar and puffy balloon shape. That's not quote
Speaker 1: unquote flattering. If it makes me feel fabulous, yep, I
Speaker 1: feel confident. I go about my day or my vent
Speaker 1: or whatever, and that's good. So what are your thoughts
Speaker 1: on the word flattering while we're here.
Speaker 2: I think that's a really really interesting word. The way
Speaker 2: I define two kind of looks that gen and I
Speaker 2: deal with and I encourage women to dress into is
Speaker 2: either flattering, so flattering your body shape. So once you
Speaker 2: understand your best bits, let's emphasize them, let's go for
Speaker 2: it and let's make a real thing of showing them off,
Speaker 2: or we do fashion. Often fashion can be more oversized,
Speaker 2: it can be baggier clothes, it can be for example,
Speaker 2: oversized blazers, right right, Go for fashion or go for flattering.
Speaker 1: So you'll find out what that particular client's trying to achieve, Yes.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and we'll put them on this makeshift barometer, right,
Speaker 2: flattering at one end, fashion at the other. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: when we start playing with clothes and we're creating looks
Speaker 2: that aren't flattering us our shape, you know, they don't
Speaker 2: show off how beautiful, button waste and whatever, and they're
Speaker 2: not fashion either. They're mediocre. They're the ones it's down
Speaker 2: the middle and they're boring. And so it's really easy
Speaker 2: because if you if.
Speaker 1: You're trying to strike both and you're striking nothing or
Speaker 1: you don't really know.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly exactly, you're not. Yeah, you're trying to strike
Speaker 2: both because sometimes there's things that are flattering and fashion
Speaker 2: like a white sneaker, Right, how has that been in fashion?
Speaker 1: Ye? You're going to use them amately quote unquote cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they work for everybody. You know, we wear
Speaker 2: them daily. They're comfortable, they tick so many boxes. So
Speaker 2: that's something that's flattering and fashionable. Okay, but often things
Speaker 2: are one or the other. And when we're throwing on
Speaker 2: that old gray oversized top that because we're not really
Speaker 2: sure what to wear with, you know, we've often put
Speaker 2: on a bit of weight. That's the time when we're like, oh,
Speaker 2: feel a bit nah in this? Yeh, feel a bit mediocre.
Speaker 2: We look at ourselves in the mirror. And I mentioned
Speaker 2: this on you know, our shopping podcast Spiral, where we
Speaker 2: look in the mirror like, oh, feel a bit nah
Speaker 2: in this? I think I'm putting on weight, And we
Speaker 2: wear the garment that makes us look like we've put
Speaker 2: on weight. So we look at ourselves in the mirror like, oh,
Speaker 2: don't feel great, I'm going to exist on small. It's
Speaker 2: just we shrink back exactly. We cower, we don't wn't
Speaker 2: stand up, We're not you know, and all that internal
Speaker 2: narrative is different because we're looking at ourselves and it's
Speaker 2: validating the fact that we might have put me and
Speaker 2: we might all that's fine, but we'd want to dress
Speaker 2: to enjoy our body rather than cover it in a
Speaker 2: big blanket or sheet that often we do soon as
Speaker 2: we put on a bit of weight. And that's what's
Speaker 2: really interesting about the menopause side of.
Speaker 1: Things, because traditionally women do put on weight, and particularly
Speaker 1: in the middle.
Speaker 2: But putting on something that is so big and swamps
Speaker 2: us is the worst thing you can do for your confidence. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: the trouble this.
Speaker 1: Is where I think a lot of women just don't
Speaker 1: know what to do at this live state. Absolutely back
Speaker 1: to our glass. I mean, I'm thinking Marilyn Monroe exactly
Speaker 1: whether or not that's achieved naturally or not. How many
Speaker 1: of us are actual hour glasses?
Speaker 2: A very small amount, so only about nine percent, if
Speaker 2: you get all scientific, is about nine percent. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's ridiculously small. But as I said, I just look
Speaker 2: at a woman. If she's balanced from her top region
Speaker 2: to her bottom, and she curves the significantly at the waist.
Speaker 2: She can't be a size six, shedn't be a size
Speaker 2: twenty six.
Speaker 1: Don't care. But if there's not that curve in them mi,
Speaker 1: while she's a rectangle exactly.
Speaker 2: Well, what's really interesting. Right when I first started spending
Speaker 2: obviously more time in fitting rooms with women, I was
Speaker 2: putting different shapes on different women. Can be tool, you
Speaker 2: can be fritique. That's the other part of this conversation,
Speaker 2: which complicates our body shape and our body type. But
Speaker 2: what I was putting on a lot of the time
Speaker 2: was actually our glass shape. So basically pyramid on the
Speaker 2: bottom and then upside down pyramid on the top. Okay,
Speaker 2: in terms of say a dress, so you've got a
Speaker 2: dressed maybe with a bit of a puff sleeve. You've
Speaker 2: got a beautiful bit of fit under the bust, and
Speaker 2: then it comes out again an a shape at the hem.
Speaker 2: And a lot of my clients, and a lot of
Speaker 2: them don't feel that comfortable with their body, and they're
Speaker 2: really trying to seek out what would work better someone
Speaker 2: more confident. Absolutely, there's a range, But often i'd put
Speaker 2: an hourglass dress shape on a client and they would
Speaker 2: look up and look in the mirror and oh and
Speaker 2: like look themselves up exactly. Oh, I like what I
Speaker 2: look like in this? What have you done? And I'm like,
Speaker 2: I've just put an hourglass shaped dress on you, So
Speaker 2: let me talk you through the science. And I kind
Speaker 2: of talk them through and that oh oh yeah, the
Speaker 2: colors is coming. It might take too. I love it.
Speaker 2: What shoes can I wear? Oh? How can I access? Right? Oh?
Speaker 2: This is great? What's the jacket? And suddenly they're like,
Speaker 2: something fits me, something makes me feel fantastic, And it's
Speaker 2: that old school hourglass shape. And I was really shocked
Speaker 2: to think when you know, because I thought we'd moved
Speaker 2: on from this, but what it feels like we haven't
Speaker 2: with a lot of the women I see that is
Speaker 2: still such a beautiful, powerful shape, is feminine, and it's.
Speaker 1: It's interest terrible fashion so oversize and like kind of
Speaker 1: androgynous at the moment. Yeah, parts of the fashion world that, yes,
Speaker 1: we forget that sometimes going back to something that's quite
Speaker 1: unquite flattering, and by that we mean you feel fabulous
Speaker 1: in it? Absolutely? Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And you know, a
Speaker 1: timeless in a way.
Speaker 2: Because it's always going to fit your body and that's
Speaker 2: always going to make you feel good. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1: Absolutely?
Speaker 2: And so it's interesting with the oversized thing. You know,
Speaker 2: a lot of my cents are right. I'm experimented with
Speaker 2: over sized blazers. They look really cool. But then they
Speaker 2: took a photo of themselves, like, oh my god, I
Speaker 2: look like a tent. Yeah, but your body's not a tent.
Speaker 2: It's the garment that's the tent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, stop, glean, go back to flattering. Yes, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: But because they see a tent like thing on themselves,
Speaker 2: they think they've got that big to look more like
Speaker 2: a ten. Ye know, you've got a gorgeous body under there,
Speaker 2: doesn't matter what size is, but it's still gorgeous.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But the tent you're putting on, you can take that off.
Speaker 2: You can choose, you see what I mean totally?
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about the fifth body type, an apple
Speaker 1: or a circle, because I feel like as we head
Speaker 1: into menopause, this is what a lot of women feel
Speaker 1: like their body is morphing into.
Speaker 2: That's why I put it at the end, because a
Speaker 2: lot of us feel like there is a real rounding
Speaker 2: of the body. And it's so interesting because a lot
Speaker 2: of my clients, regardless of their body type. So body
Speaker 2: type is what our genetics are. Body shape is often
Speaker 2: the shape that we think we are, depending on the
Speaker 2: clothes we're wearing. Interesting, that's the way I define them.
Speaker 2: Body type is one thing. Body shape. Do you see
Speaker 2: what I do?
Speaker 1: I do I do?
Speaker 2: Because you are the shape you put on around.
Speaker 1: Our body critically and trying to hide massively. You see
Speaker 1: you look in the mirror your undis, which sounds daunting,
Speaker 1: and you go, I want to hide. I want to
Speaker 1: hide that instead of actually really like rashold, really like
Speaker 1: I've got a really great rack.
Speaker 2: Exactly, exactly exactly, That's exactly what it's about.
Speaker 1: So the apple, Yes.
Speaker 2: When we're going a bit more rounded, So basically you
Speaker 2: know that's often our bust and our tummy, which, regardless
Speaker 2: of what body top we are, often we are going
Speaker 2: to put on a bit of weight through our middle
Speaker 2: as we age. It's hormones and all those things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going to happen to all of us, yes,
Speaker 1: but it's.
Speaker 2: How we feel about becoming a bit rounder. And what's
Speaker 2: really interesting, A lot of my can't say, Kim help me,
Speaker 2: I've lost my waist. Okay, you haven't lost your waist
Speaker 2: if you're becoming more apple, your waist has just moved
Speaker 2: up under your bust. It's empire line, you know, that
Speaker 2: kind of bit under our bust.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so when.
Speaker 2: A lot of women go I've lost my femininity, I've
Speaker 2: lost my waist, it's like, no, you haven't done.
Speaker 1: It's just moved us.
Speaker 2: And that's a really nice way to think about it,
Speaker 2: because that is kind of prime real estate under our bust.
Speaker 2: But we often overlook it because we're too busy hating
Speaker 2: on our waist. So what kind of shapes then, so
Speaker 2: more an empire line hour glass, So basically that hour
Speaker 2: glass shape of a try on a triangle, but with
Speaker 2: more of a band or some definition under.
Speaker 1: The right, under the past. I mean, even if you're
Speaker 1: not that, I don't want anything really tired across my
Speaker 1: lower tell me, because I like to breathe and eat, yes,
Speaker 1: not feel restricted.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well a lot of the time nowly it's great.
Speaker 2: There's so many dresses and even top styles that have
Speaker 2: got elastic at the back that will allow you to eat,
Speaker 2: drink and be merry. Because if you can't be merry
Speaker 2: in your clothes, then don't get them.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what size or shape you are if
Speaker 1: you're not comfortable exactly.
Speaker 2: So that's why looking out for these design details, such
Speaker 2: as a bit of elastic across the back or stretch
Speaker 2: you fabrics just allows you through the month to always
Speaker 2: fit in your clothes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think is a really important, especially when things
Speaker 1: are fluctuating and going great exactly. So tell me more
Speaker 1: about Empire line because I'm finding this interesting and I'm
Speaker 1: also having some like weird flashbacks. No, I'm fluttering, But
Speaker 1: just like downy things I used to wear, that's sort
Speaker 1: of formed who I think of empires. So give me more.
Speaker 2: Yes, so often they can look really good, like mister
Speaker 2: Zimmy does lots of Empire dresses, you know, Spell does them.
Speaker 1: You know, like a like my arms, I mean, I
Speaker 1: like all of me. I shouldn't say that.
Speaker 2: But you can put a belt there if you want.
Speaker 2: But having that shape in that garment already is really
Speaker 2: nice because then you can just literally chuck it on.
Speaker 2: You don't have to accessorize or overthink it.
Speaker 1: Basically is that whether the top and pants are or separates, can.
Speaker 2: You You can, But it's a bit harder. It's a
Speaker 2: bit easier with the dress, but you still can it's
Speaker 2: just getting tops with from shaping, and that's the whole point, right,
Speaker 2: rather than wearing boxy square tops or tops that are
Speaker 2: more trapees that are meant more for true apples that
Speaker 2: are rounder, because a true apple is defined that basically
Speaker 2: her tummy is her widest part. Bust. Okay, But the
Speaker 2: reason I come up with a sixth body type, which
Speaker 2: is a slim apple.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of her fruit.
Speaker 2: I don't know. It was more about client feedback rather
Speaker 2: than you know that fashion dictates a few different body types.
Speaker 2: But I found that a slim apple so she sits
Speaker 2: between a circle like an apple and a rectangle, so
Speaker 2: she holds her weight through her belly as a lot
Speaker 2: of us do. But she's not as lean as a rectangle,
Speaker 2: but she's not as round as an apple. Does that
Speaker 2: make s end?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, there's a little bit of a roundness of
Speaker 2: the tummy, but it's not round like a circle where
Speaker 2: we need to wear trapeze shapes. A lot of the
Speaker 2: problem is we actually turn into slim apples, not true apples,
Speaker 2: but we wear the clothes that belong to a true apple,
Speaker 2: which is more trapeze, right, which is more garments that
Speaker 2: come out from the bus to cover and skim the tummy.
Speaker 2: But they have so much fabric that when you're slim
Speaker 2: apple which many more of my clients are than a
Speaker 2: true apple, is making us look bigger.
Speaker 1: With a lot of these body shapes that bras and
Speaker 1: busts makes a big.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, my difference.
Speaker 1: Right, Like I can wear a bra that makes me
Speaker 1: look like I've got bazookas, and then i can wear
Speaker 1: a bra that makes me look like I've got nothing.
Speaker 2: Yep, they're powerful, So talk to.
Speaker 1: Me about bras and brass straps and all that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff because also your boobs change in perimeniorse.
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely, And actually my client I just had this morning,
Speaker 2: we were talking through this because you know, a lot
Speaker 2: of the brass straps that we buy are a bit
Speaker 2: more satin because there are sometimes exactly but they slip, right,
Speaker 2: the clips will slip, So we really need to tighten
Speaker 2: them every so often because obviously they're going through quite
Speaker 2: a lot every day and support exactly, so being able
Speaker 2: to then lift them that bit, because then that lifts
Speaker 2: our bus points. So your bus point is the widest
Speaker 2: part of your bust. And if we can lift it
Speaker 2: a little bit.
Speaker 1: Where you nipples are ye south not.
Speaker 2: Age. Your nipples aren't always nowadays the widest.
Speaker 1: Part of silient to close their eyes, but.
Speaker 2: It's but it's lifting that bust that bit through adjusting
Speaker 2: your bras straps to shorten them so that the whole
Speaker 2: bus lifts a little bit.
Speaker 1: And that's where difference to sometimes when I'm just like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's annoying, I do that, Alee. It's meant to set exactly.
Speaker 2: Especially when we've got a fuller bust, you have to
Speaker 2: do that a little bit more regularly. But my god,
Speaker 2: it changes so much of how often we feel about
Speaker 2: ourselves because we feel perkier, but we also have released
Speaker 2: that prime real estate under our bus that often ow waste,
Speaker 2: that highwaist area that's no longer the slimm ist part
Speaker 2: that used to be around, sorry, the belly button in
Speaker 2: the slimmist part, but is now our slimmers part gone
Speaker 2: to the underbust. Does that make sense? And so often
Speaker 2: it's just choosing shapes of tops that come in just
Speaker 2: a little bit rather than go outwards. Okay, one of
Speaker 2: the biggest things I say to my clients, one of
Speaker 2: the key things I talk a lot about is the
Speaker 2: silhouette of the garment, how it fits your body rather
Speaker 2: than swamping your body. And you know when we look
Speaker 2: in the mirror and we're like, oh my god, I've
Speaker 2: turned to the tent type of conversations that a lot
Speaker 2: of my clients will talk to me about. It's about
Speaker 2: garments that skim your body. Skim okay, because we think
Speaker 2: in really binary terms. I think, don't be with fit.
Speaker 2: It's either got.
Speaker 1: That's exactly what was sim oversized. Yes, but you're so right.
Speaker 1: Sometimes the joy is in the middle and it can
Speaker 1: still sort of fit into a trend without.
Speaker 2: Oh totally, you can still really modern for it all.
Speaker 2: I you know, I talk a lot about contemporary classics
Speaker 2: a lot of the time, and then we might sprinkle
Speaker 2: on a few edgy fashion bits. Absolutely how we can
Speaker 2: buy that. It's absolutely up to every individual. But being
Speaker 2: able to choose clothes that skim your body brilliant. Like,
Speaker 2: you know, someone can't say I don't like my bottom
Speaker 2: it's big. I'm like, your bottom is gorgeous, but you're
Speaker 2: wearing low slung drop crotch pants in the wrong kind
Speaker 2: of fabric. Yeah, So let's skim your body and I'm like,
Speaker 2: your booty is gorgeous, and they're looking oh oh, actually,
Speaker 2: and I've changed their underwear.
Speaker 1: Okay, tell me about that.
Speaker 2: Because if you've got a high rise pant or a
Speaker 2: high rise skirt, you need a high rise knicker otherwise
Speaker 2: you can see your oh okay, it's because we don't
Speaker 2: mentally draw because we don't want to wear it, or
Speaker 2: like the boi leg or the full brave if you're
Speaker 2: gonna if it's skimming and you can.
Speaker 1: Sort of see your body.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you don't need a spanks that's not what
Speaker 2: it's about. That's not but we just want a bigger
Speaker 2: knicker that sits and hugs your waist at the same
Speaker 2: point that you're closed.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you just feel more secure. It's almost like a
Speaker 1: bra for your bam. Like when you've got the right Yeah,
Speaker 1: underwear ons make everything just feel a bit more secure.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And a lot of us have moved up in
Speaker 2: terms of the waistline going higher wasted, but we haven't
Speaker 2: moved ourn nickers up. Yeah. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So everything, absolutely anything else we need to know
Speaker 1: about perimenopause and menopause or changing body shapes before we
Speaker 1: get into Bousian budget.
Speaker 2: So I understand that a lot of us have very
Speaker 2: complicated relationships with our bodies and therefore our wardrobes. But
Speaker 2: that only intensifies as well when we might gain a
Speaker 2: bit of weight. And I know that a lot of
Speaker 2: clients won't love their body overnight, but to stop hating
Speaker 2: on bits and become more body neutral, that's quite a
Speaker 2: profound shift tidally. And there's a group of women in
Speaker 2: the world. You know, if we could be a bit
Speaker 2: happier in our clothes, it would free up a lot
Speaker 2: of mental space. I so agree, and that is ideally
Speaker 2: what a lot of the guidelines I give clients are for,
Speaker 2: so that they can block out a lot of the
Speaker 2: rubbish that's not going to work for them and start
Speaker 2: honing in on what works for them, create a few
Speaker 2: formulas of what they like, and then they're gold in this, say,
Speaker 2: if they know they've got an outfit for every occasion
Speaker 2: and a wardrobe is going to work with them, not
Speaker 2: against them, and let them.
Speaker 1: They can stop mentally torturing themselves about their body. Particularly
Speaker 1: changing is going to happen to all us women.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think a lot of you change clothes, not
Speaker 2: your body exactly exactly. That's exactly it, because I think
Speaker 2: a lot of hormones rushing around our body. As soon
Speaker 2: as we put on a bit of weight, we're like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, oh my god, I'm so much bigger
Speaker 2: than I am. But actually a lot of the time,
Speaker 2: you know, dress near later thousand women, nearly all women
Speaker 2: are a lot less round in reality than their clothes
Speaker 2: might suggest.
Speaker 1: It's very expensive, how world these, Kim. I think we
Speaker 1: have to do a part two because we haven't talked
Speaker 1: about fabric types, and as a perimenopausal woman, I'm hot,
Speaker 1: so that's going to have to be part two. But
Speaker 1: I've brought bougie and budget coul fabrics that I can wear. Yes,
Speaker 1: because I'm hot, flushing, I'm sweating at night. Yep, I'm
Speaker 1: getting all those first early symptoms. But firstly, let's start
Speaker 1: with your budget.
Speaker 2: Okay, my budget is a Portman's denim dress and Portmans
Speaker 2: in Forever. It's brilliant. It's this beautiful dark denim.
Speaker 1: Oh that's good.
Speaker 2: So it's got this beautiful erglass shape to it because
Speaker 2: it's got a bit of a puff sleeve, so it's
Speaker 2: exaggerating the shoulder a little bit more it's got beautiful
Speaker 2: shaping and seaming down it to me, but not too
Speaker 2: deep exactly, so beautiful flattering on the bust. It's got
Speaker 2: the seeming that comes down, and then it's got the
Speaker 2: stitching down the seams to really elongate the body. And
Speaker 2: then it's got a beautiful belt and all these gold detailing.
Speaker 2: I mean, it doesn't look like Portman's.
Speaker 1: It looks like Age was like, Yeah, it's stunning in
Speaker 1: the belt, and then you could take the belt off
Speaker 1: and absolutely.
Speaker 2: It's currently one hundred and fifty dollars, which is really good.
Speaker 2: Obviously it's a bit more breathable because it's cotton. Predominantly
Speaker 2: pop into Portmans. I haven't done Portman's real quiet as well. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and they're doing better cotton lot. I know Portman's isn't
Speaker 2: the most sustainable of brands, but they are doing better cotton.
Speaker 1: My budget is from linter Co. They're called the Linen
Speaker 1: Simple button fly down trousers because when I really just
Speaker 1: take it back to what I wear all the time,
Speaker 1: it's jeans and a T shirt. So these aren't jeans.
Speaker 1: They're coming a thousand different colors, ninety one dollars. They've
Speaker 1: got like a little. They're kind of like a mix
Speaker 1: between a cargo and a Chino and a jean, and
Speaker 1: they're one hundred percent linen.
Speaker 2: They re edgy.
Speaker 1: I love them well, they are, aren't they? But then
Speaker 1: you could just like you chuck on a song or
Speaker 1: you can on a heel on a cami. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the dusty blue. But they've got like ten different colors,
Speaker 1: color size extra small to triple XL brilliant, and undred
Speaker 1: percent linen. So while I'm hot and sweaty and periman
Speaker 1: a porsal, I'm trying to go from more natural fibers,
Speaker 1: more so on the top, but I thought i'd bring
Speaker 1: a natural on a bottom on the bottom as well.
Speaker 1: It's a bit well, I'm shitzy in summer even when
Speaker 1: I'm not hormonal. What's your bougie.
Speaker 2: It's the age version. You probably know how to pronounce
Speaker 2: this bad age. Yes, it's the Colorado den and mini dress.
Speaker 1: And it's also gorgeous.
Speaker 2: Version is gorgeous and it's got very similar styling. So
Speaker 2: it's a dupe. Portman's is a dupe for the.
Speaker 1: Pretty much Asian one is beautiful and I'll let you
Speaker 1: finish describing it, but I reckon. The Portman one's more
Speaker 1: flattering that buttons up almost like a denim shirt, whereas, yeah,
Speaker 1: the other one has a bit of a v.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a bit more open. But obviously you can open
Speaker 2: this because it's true a shirt wrere yes and it's
Speaker 2: got a lot of the gold detailing, so that obviously elevates.
Speaker 2: So it means that these kind of dresses you can
Speaker 2: wear to so many different places because it's already got
Speaker 2: a bit of glam on it because of the gold.
Speaker 1: Absolutely you can check that on with flats and got
Speaker 1: a kind of a barbecue or you could dress it up.
Speaker 2: And so this one is size four to sixteen and
Speaker 2: the price is five hundred and twenty five, so it's
Speaker 2: quite a lot. Obviously it's cotton, it's more breathable, but
Speaker 2: it's beautiful. It's quite expensive.
Speaker 1: There's also a really good Agia outlet in Sydney, but
Speaker 1: if you're not from my bougie isn't very expensive. So
Speaker 1: it's from the brand Forecast. It's on the iconic Manhattan
Speaker 1: striped cotton shirt one hundred percent cotton. So you know
Speaker 1: how those stripey oversized men's shirts are really cool. But
Speaker 1: see how this isn't too oversized.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's perfect.
Speaker 1: So it's clearly for a woman's shape. I believe it's
Speaker 1: slouching oversize, but not like you went and put your
Speaker 1: dad's shirt on size four to sixteen and it also
Speaker 1: comes into green. But I just love the blue stripe.
Speaker 1: I'm just loving that with summer whites one hundred percent
Speaker 1: cotton because I have to say, last week I wore
Speaker 1: a synthetic long sleeve shirt. I just got to leave
Speaker 1: my synthetics for the dead of winter, I think.
Speaker 2: Or But this is what's interesting as well about why
Speaker 2: I think a lot of women and them wearing oversize
Speaker 2: because some of their fabric choices aren't quite right, and
Speaker 2: so they're like, I want this armhole to sit away
Speaker 2: from my body before I get really really honey, you're.
Speaker 1: Going to have to do a part two on fabric.
Speaker 1: Now we know what shapes to go for. You've already
Speaker 1: noailed the colors. Fabrics comes next. Care your wealth of knowledge.
Speaker 1: I appreciate you bringing all your accumulated wisdom from designing
Speaker 1: and then styling and helping women. So thank you so
Speaker 1: much for joy, Thank you Lee, thank you, thank you
Speaker 1: for listening to Nothing to Wear, don't forget to sign
Speaker 1: up to the Nothing to Wear newsletter. It's free and
Speaker 1: there's a link in the show notes. And if you
Speaker 1: want to unders send more about sizing in Australia, we've
Speaker 1: done a whole deep dive on that. It's incredibly interesting
Speaker 1: and I reckon you'll learn something, so there's a link
Speaker 1: to that episode in the show notes. See you next week.
Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Grace Roofrey, with audio production
Speaker 1: by Lou Hill. This podcast is powered by our subscribers.
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