WEBVTT - Millennials Were The Last Generation To Have It All 0:00:10.222 --> 0:00:13.342 You're listening to a Mama Mia podcast. 0:00:13.822 --> 0:00:17.182 Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:17.222 --> 0:00:18.782 that this podcast is recorded on. 0:00:19.942 --> 0:00:22.222 Yeah, I can even talk about the fact that I 0:00:22.342 --> 0:00:24.782 was there on the night that Facebook started. I don't 0:00:24.822 --> 0:00:26.662 know if I've shared this on the pod before, but 0:00:26.862 --> 0:00:30.062 I was at Harvard when Mark Zuckerberg started Facebook, and. 0:00:30.022 --> 0:00:32.502 I remember the night it started. My roommate walked into 0:00:32.542 --> 0:00:35.422 my room in the social news. 0:00:35.942 --> 0:00:39.262 I'm sitting in my dorm room and my roommate comes 0:00:39.302 --> 0:00:41.742 in and she says, have you heard of this thing 0:00:41.862 --> 0:00:42.902 called the Facebook? 0:00:44.142 --> 0:00:46.902 Hello, and welcome to Mamma Mia out Loud and to 0:00:47.022 --> 0:00:49.942 our Friday show, where you will hear not a peep, 0:00:50.182 --> 0:00:52.422 not a bleep about what's going on in the wider 0:00:52.462 --> 0:00:55.502 world because this is a news free zone and it's Friday, 0:00:55.582 --> 0:00:56.822 the twenty eighth of March. 0:00:56.862 --> 0:00:59.582 I'm Holly Waynwright, I'm Meya Friedman, and I am not 0:00:59.702 --> 0:01:02.902 Jessee Stevens. I am Amelia Lester, filling in for Jesse. 0:01:03.062 --> 0:01:07.101 On today's show. We're millennials, the last generation to really 0:01:07.182 --> 0:01:10.182 have it all. That slight crunch you could here is 0:01:10.222 --> 0:01:12.342 a merelya Lester flexing gee. 0:01:12.142 --> 0:01:16.142 Is one I know loud. That's why so you and 0:01:16.182 --> 0:01:16.622 I are not. 0:01:17.142 --> 0:01:21.262 Recommendations include a deeply original novel, some no bullshit health 0:01:21.262 --> 0:01:24.142 advice and a lipliner, and our Best and Worst of 0:01:24.142 --> 0:01:26.822 the Week, which includes singing, dancing, and having nightmares, not 0:01:26.862 --> 0:01:28.502 all at the same time, but also sort of at 0:01:28.502 --> 0:01:29.022 the same time. 0:01:29.662 --> 0:01:32.902 First mea Friedman In case you missed it. There are 0:01:33.022 --> 0:01:36.461 five main reasons why women break up with their hairdresser, 0:01:36.662 --> 0:01:40.342 according to an unscientific investigation in the Age by reporter 0:01:40.542 --> 0:01:42.942 Hannah Hammond. I have a question before I tell you 0:01:43.022 --> 0:01:45.182 what they are. How many times do you think the 0:01:45.222 --> 0:01:47.862 average woman goes to the hairdresser in her lifetime? 0:01:48.102 --> 0:01:50.502 Oh my gosh, just quickly, just off the top of 0:01:50.542 --> 0:01:51.142 your head. 0:01:51.182 --> 0:01:54.782 Over a whole life. Do maths one hundred four hundred. 0:01:54.862 --> 0:01:57.822 It's one hundred and fifty on average, five times a 0:01:57.902 --> 0:02:00.862 year except during COVID, where we cut our own fringes. 0:02:01.262 --> 0:02:05.502 There are sixty three thousand hairstylists currently employed across Australia, 0:02:05.582 --> 0:02:08.341 and at any given moment, many of us are moving 0:02:08.422 --> 0:02:12.302 between them, leaving one trying another. Here are the five 0:02:12.341 --> 0:02:15.822 reasons why. Number one, they don't listen. So if you say, 0:02:15.982 --> 0:02:19.022 I'd just like a couple of centimeters off and you 0:02:19.181 --> 0:02:21.982 leave with, as they call it on The White Lotus, 0:02:22.222 --> 0:02:24.781 a county bob. Do you know what I'm referring to it? 0:02:24.862 --> 0:02:27.621 I do. Leslie Beab's character, one of the Three Blondes. 0:02:28.102 --> 0:02:31.661 She released a video with her and Chris McMillan, who 0:02:31.662 --> 0:02:34.982 is Jennifer Andison's headdresser, and they call this hairstyle the 0:02:35.022 --> 0:02:37.901 county bob. Do just think anyone ever breaks up with Chris McMillan. 0:02:39.502 --> 0:02:42.462 I have some feedback for him about Jennifer Aniston's hair. 0:02:43.102 --> 0:02:45.342 I think that I don't think she needs to break 0:02:45.422 --> 0:02:47.902 up with him. And maybe it's her not him, but 0:02:48.022 --> 0:02:50.782 I would like her hair to evolve. I think it 0:02:50.822 --> 0:02:52.982 needs a little bit more warmth. I'd like to see 0:02:52.982 --> 0:02:54.142 some more buttery chunks. 0:02:54.382 --> 0:02:56.302 Okay, it's not you, it's me, Chris. 0:02:56.982 --> 0:02:59.782 I'll DM him anyway. The second reason, you don't feel 0:02:59.822 --> 0:03:03.022 good about yourself when you leave. I love this reason 0:03:03.062 --> 0:03:06.502 because I sometimes apply this to friendships. You know, when 0:03:06.542 --> 0:03:09.742 you spend time with someone and you leave and you say, Okay, 0:03:09.902 --> 0:03:12.022 how do I feel in this moment? What's the word? 0:03:12.062 --> 0:03:14.782 And it could be burdened, it could be drained, it 0:03:14.822 --> 0:03:17.982 could be recharged uplifted. If you walk out of the 0:03:18.022 --> 0:03:25.501 hairdresser and you feel disappointed, sad, bad things, probably ugly ugly. Yes, 0:03:25.502 --> 0:03:27.662 it's probably a reason that you might want to break up. 0:03:27.902 --> 0:03:31.142 Third reason, they're always running late. Got to respect people's time. 0:03:31.262 --> 0:03:33.822 I'm usually the one running late. Fourth reason is you 0:03:33.822 --> 0:03:36.582 can't afford them anymore. It's expensive going to the hairdresser. 0:03:36.742 --> 0:03:39.222 It can be, but you know their time is precious too. 0:03:39.622 --> 0:03:42.622 And the fifth reason, they make you feel uncomfortable. I 0:03:42.702 --> 0:03:46.302 think this speaks to the intimacy that happens when you're vulnerable, 0:03:46.342 --> 0:03:50.262 sitting in the chair, hair or wet and maybe foils, 0:03:50.422 --> 0:03:53.302 and you might say things to your hairdresser. They might 0:03:53.342 --> 0:03:55.742 say things to you. It's a very intimate moment, it is, 0:03:56.062 --> 0:03:58.102 but you have to feel comfortable in the moment. Emila 0:03:58.182 --> 0:04:00.102 and Holly, when was the last time you broke up 0:04:00.142 --> 0:04:02.102 with your hairdresser? And why so? 0:04:02.262 --> 0:04:04.982 I need to bring the curly girl energy here because 0:04:05.262 --> 0:04:08.942 I have very difficult hair. This is not a humble brag, 0:04:08.982 --> 0:04:12.222 but hair dress get really terrified when they see my 0:04:12.302 --> 0:04:14.822 hair for the first time. They always say something. 0:04:14.582 --> 0:04:15.902 Like, gosh, you've got a lot of hair. 0:04:16.101 --> 0:04:19.022 Yeah, and sometimes it's a compliment and sometimes it's an insult, 0:04:19.062 --> 0:04:22.742 and sometimes it's just sort of a complaint. But either way, 0:04:23.022 --> 0:04:25.382 it's always a bit fraught when I meet a new hairdresser. 0:04:25.741 --> 0:04:28.262 So this is a topic nearing to my heart. Then 0:04:28.501 --> 0:04:32.222 not accept you like, say thanks, but I won't be 0:04:32.301 --> 0:04:34.501 doing this today, not yet. 0:04:34.782 --> 0:04:36.662 I think it's because you can charge a lot when 0:04:36.662 --> 0:04:38.741 you've got as much hair as I do. But again, 0:04:38.782 --> 0:04:41.141 not a humble brag, it's really it creates friction with 0:04:41.222 --> 0:04:44.662 hairdressers a lot. But I had a hairdresser who I 0:04:44.741 --> 0:04:49.061 acquired during COVID, So when restrictions were easy where I 0:04:49.181 --> 0:04:51.581 was living, I just moved to a new place and 0:04:51.981 --> 0:04:54.421 I got a hairdresser who came to my house and 0:04:54.501 --> 0:04:56.662 for a while she cut my hair in my backyard 0:04:56.782 --> 0:04:59.061 because it was still during that time when we needed 0:04:59.101 --> 0:05:01.822 to socialize outside, and then we moved inside. Look, you 0:05:01.861 --> 0:05:03.782 couldn't beat the convenience of it. I did have to 0:05:03.902 --> 0:05:05.702 wash my own hair, which was slightly annoying. 0:05:05.702 --> 0:05:09.381 But my local park was full of hairdressers meeting their clients. 0:05:09.702 --> 0:05:09.942 Park. 0:05:10.262 --> 0:05:11.861 Was it like people. 0:05:11.702 --> 0:05:13.182 Walking around with their foils in? 0:05:13.342 --> 0:05:14.541 Yeah, it was. 0:05:14.861 --> 0:05:17.741 But I broke up with her because to your point 0:05:17.741 --> 0:05:20.462 about how you feel when you leave, I felt really drained. 0:05:20.981 --> 0:05:22.942 She would come and I felt like I needed to 0:05:23.022 --> 0:05:25.662 keep the conversation going, and I had to remember her 0:05:25.741 --> 0:05:29.142 children's names, and we just got into sort of inevitably 0:05:29.262 --> 0:05:31.782 quite intense conversations about parenting. 0:05:32.222 --> 0:05:34.422 I felt exhausted at the end. I like to work 0:05:34.421 --> 0:05:35.741 at the hairdresser, Holly, what about you. 0:05:35.941 --> 0:05:38.502 I didn't have a steady hairdresser until me. I did 0:05:38.501 --> 0:05:41.022 some matchmaking for me, which you know, it's quite typical 0:05:41.061 --> 0:05:44.021 of many of the dynamic of our relationship where she's like, 0:05:44.142 --> 0:05:47.342 we need to fix this. So I always just flooded around. 0:05:47.421 --> 0:05:48.261 ID just go to whoever. 0:05:48.541 --> 0:05:50.821 So you were constantly breaking up with people, I'd. 0:05:50.662 --> 0:05:52.021 Be like, whoever can pit me in? And I have 0:05:52.061 --> 0:05:55.021 exactly the same thing, because dirt, because I was and 0:05:55.061 --> 0:05:57.422 I'm a commitment fobe, like Ameily, I have a lot 0:05:57.421 --> 0:06:00.022 of hair. So sometimes they break up with you. Sometimes 0:06:00.022 --> 0:06:02.782 they're just like, oh no, really yep. And also I 0:06:02.821 --> 0:06:06.262 think I always feel a lot of sympathy for hair 0:06:06.342 --> 0:06:10.301 dresses because my expectations are very unrealistic. I'm always like, 0:06:10.501 --> 0:06:11.541 I want a heavy friend. 0:06:11.621 --> 0:06:15.022 Are you bringing a bardo? 0:06:15.301 --> 0:06:20.741 That's like my ideal hair, and they're just like, duh, 0:06:20.782 --> 0:06:23.782 you're delusional, and they're obviously like in any relationship when 0:06:23.782 --> 0:06:26.061 they tell you you're dreaming, you get a bit upset. 0:06:26.902 --> 0:06:31.541 I've evangelized my hairdresser, but now everyone on Out Loud 0:06:31.582 --> 0:06:34.541 goes to her except for you, but Jesse and Holly 0:06:34.662 --> 0:06:37.101 both go to her. She's like the out loud hairdresser, 0:06:37.381 --> 0:06:40.702 elle A Edwards, and I'm going this week. Yeah, And 0:06:40.902 --> 0:06:45.301 I've started a group chat with Elle and Holly about 0:06:45.342 --> 0:06:49.341 what we're going to do just for feelings about Holly's hair. 0:06:49.222 --> 0:06:53.622 MEA's backseat driving my hair. Generational wars are an enormous 0:06:53.662 --> 0:06:56.341 amount of fun if it is not your generation who's 0:06:56.381 --> 0:06:59.741 being sledged, which is why I can't get enough of 0:06:59.782 --> 0:07:04.421 the millennial gen Z fight. But sometimes these silly scraps 0:07:04.462 --> 0:07:07.821 about arbitrary social groupings of birthdays are profound. 0:07:08.142 --> 0:07:10.381 Can you summarize that fire? Do you think it's just 0:07:10.502 --> 0:07:13.381 like gen Z trolling millennials about being old? 0:07:13.502 --> 0:07:16.582 Yes, because now that millennials are, you know, in their 0:07:16.622 --> 0:07:19.422 thirties and early forties and so on, they are now 0:07:19.462 --> 0:07:22.142 the old people and inverted commas, and obviously gen zs 0:07:22.182 --> 0:07:24.141 are the young people, and young people like to sledge 0:07:24.182 --> 0:07:27.462 old people, and when you're first in the old people 0:07:27.502 --> 0:07:31.782 category in inverted commas, it is profoundly uncomfortable to have 0:07:31.862 --> 0:07:35.662 that shifting realization that you are not the young people anymore. 0:07:35.821 --> 0:07:39.742 Meanwhile, Gen x's have just become irrelevant and or cute, 0:07:39.821 --> 0:07:42.582 but you are always kind of a releman. I disagree. 0:07:42.662 --> 0:07:45.102 I think we have only become cooler. Meal We are cool, 0:07:45.142 --> 0:07:45.582 but we are. 0:07:45.542 --> 0:07:48.222 Not how they kill a fight. They see us as cute, 0:07:48.302 --> 0:07:49.542 you know, that condescending phase. 0:07:49.702 --> 0:07:53.622 It's like they do genes cute and kind of bombling 0:07:53.662 --> 0:07:54.261 and pathetic. 0:07:54.422 --> 0:07:56.022 And I said that to us the other day. 0:07:56.262 --> 0:07:58.462 She did, Actually, that was good. We should get to that. 0:07:58.821 --> 0:08:01.382 But this essay that we're going to talk about today 0:08:02.222 --> 0:08:04.622 is not silly. It's profound, and I think there's a 0:08:04.662 --> 0:08:05.902 lot of truth in it for all of us. It's 0:08:05.902 --> 0:08:09.342 written by American content creators. She would hate that tag, Liz. 0:08:10.381 --> 0:08:13.821 It's called millennials were the last generation to have it all. 0:08:13.941 --> 0:08:17.422 And before we test some of these theories on Amelia, 0:08:17.941 --> 0:08:19.862 I want to read you a couple of highlights from 0:08:19.862 --> 0:08:23.701 this essay because it's really good and it's kind of 0:08:23.742 --> 0:08:28.302 the main argument about being jen Yan young was the 0:08:28.342 --> 0:08:34.182 greatest gift right. For example, social media, Liz Rights, Millennials 0:08:34.222 --> 0:08:37.062 were the last generation to experience social media when it 0:08:37.142 --> 0:08:39.542 was fun, before it turned into a full time job. 0:08:39.942 --> 0:08:42.622 Social media was essentially one big group chat, just a 0:08:42.662 --> 0:08:44.542 place for your friends and family to keep up with you. 0:08:44.862 --> 0:08:46.142 The virtual world. 0:08:46.102 --> 0:08:48.222 Was not more important than the real one. We went 0:08:48.302 --> 0:08:51.342 out drank Vodkasoda's made mistakes, and those mistakes stayed in 0:08:51.382 --> 0:08:53.582 the bar bathroom. You could have a bad night without 0:08:53.622 --> 0:08:56.222 its showing up in someone's group chat five seconds later. 0:08:56.462 --> 0:08:58.302 Yes, life was. 0:08:58.382 --> 0:09:01.742 Not a personal brand and being young wasn't a content strategy. 0:09:02.102 --> 0:09:06.742 It was excessive, earnest, ridiculous and free. And jen Z 0:09:06.902 --> 0:09:09.502 hates us for it because they know they missed out. 0:09:09.942 --> 0:09:10.862 What do you think about that? 0:09:11.182 --> 0:09:13.462 So you'll notice that I bought the side part energy 0:09:13.502 --> 0:09:13.982 here today. 0:09:14.062 --> 0:09:16.542 It really did in your Rocketcas. 0:09:15.822 --> 0:09:18.062 I'm reclaiming it, and I want to point out to 0:09:18.382 --> 0:09:21.942 gen Z, jen Affer is coming up behind you and 0:09:22.062 --> 0:09:24.262 soon they're going to be making fun of your tube 0:09:24.302 --> 0:09:26.662 socks and your center parts, and you're going to see. 0:09:26.502 --> 0:09:27.342 What it feels like. 0:09:27.422 --> 0:09:30.142 But look, I think this is very profound in the 0:09:30.182 --> 0:09:33.462 sense that Millennials were the last of maybe the good ones, 0:09:33.502 --> 0:09:35.262 but also the first of the bad ones. And I 0:09:35.262 --> 0:09:37.782 think that's maybe what Liz Plank is missing a little 0:09:37.782 --> 0:09:39.902 bit here. So, yes, we know what life was like 0:09:39.942 --> 0:09:42.702 before the Internet, but life was no walk in the 0:09:42.742 --> 0:09:45.702 park for us millennials. Get out your violins here. I 0:09:45.782 --> 0:09:49.261 need to explain that for us, we saw a stable, 0:09:49.582 --> 0:09:53.862 prosperous world in the nineties, but then that bubble was 0:09:53.902 --> 0:09:57.342 burst when we basically finished high school around the time 0:09:57.502 --> 0:10:00.822 of nine to eleven, and that showed that all the 0:10:00.822 --> 0:10:03.662 things that we took for granted, that skyscrapers would always 0:10:03.702 --> 0:10:06.542 be there, and that the West was largely unencumbered by 0:10:06.582 --> 0:10:08.062 problems in the rest of the world, that was. 0:10:08.022 --> 0:10:12.222 Not true week old we during nine to eleven, I. 0:10:12.062 --> 0:10:15.462 Was eighteen, so it was really a coming of age. Yeah, 0:10:15.542 --> 0:10:19.182 and in fact it happened the day before I started university, 0:10:19.782 --> 0:10:21.942 so it's all about me. And then the second thing 0:10:22.102 --> 0:10:25.942 was that we graduated into the financial crisis. So a 0:10:25.982 --> 0:10:28.942 lot of people I know took time off before if 0:10:28.982 --> 0:10:30.982 they went to graduate school they wanted to be a 0:10:31.022 --> 0:10:33.142 doctor or a lawyer or whatever, they took time off 0:10:33.222 --> 0:10:35.542 because there was just no jobs to be had, and 0:10:35.582 --> 0:10:38.102 so they worked sort of jobs that they wouldn't have 0:10:38.142 --> 0:10:41.222 chosen otherwise because it was such a hostile job market. 0:10:41.342 --> 0:10:45.462 So basically, we've had a huge shock every seven eight, 0:10:45.582 --> 0:10:49.502 nine years since we became adults. And then you've got 0:10:49.622 --> 0:10:52.942 Brexit and Trump in about seven or eight years after 0:10:52.982 --> 0:10:55.782 the financial crisis, and that was a big sort of 0:10:56.022 --> 0:10:58.902 blinkers lifting moment for millennials because we are a very 0:10:58.902 --> 0:11:02.381 progressive generation. Most of us did not want Brexit, most 0:11:02.422 --> 0:11:04.942 of us did not want Donald Trump, and that was 0:11:04.982 --> 0:11:07.182 another big shock. So I think you got these three 0:11:07.222 --> 0:11:10.942 seismic events for our generation that are made not fully incorporated. 0:11:11.182 --> 0:11:15.462 The thing that's really interesting about generational algibargie is that 0:11:15.542 --> 0:11:18.022 all of the things that you just discussed happened to everybody, 0:11:18.262 --> 0:11:21.142 right as in, the things that happen when you're young 0:11:21.222 --> 0:11:24.662 tipping into adulthood are very formative, it's true, but everyone 0:11:24.662 --> 0:11:27.102 else at this table experienced all those events, you know, 0:11:27.142 --> 0:11:31.462 the financial crisis nine to eleven, So it's really interesting 0:11:31.542 --> 0:11:33.502 what we think about who owns what time. 0:11:33.582 --> 0:11:36.182 That's fascinating because as you were saying that, I was 0:11:36.302 --> 0:11:38.662 forcing myself to not interrupt and go, But did you 0:11:38.702 --> 0:11:43.902 have aids Because when we were becoming sexually active, suddenly 0:11:43.942 --> 0:11:46.822 there was this sex born virus that could kill you. 0:11:46.982 --> 0:11:50.302 And even though the Boomers also experienced that, they weren't 0:11:50.582 --> 0:11:52.502 first starting to have sex. So it was much more 0:11:52.542 --> 0:11:55.381 impactful on Gen X than it was on Boomers, even 0:11:55.462 --> 0:11:56.902 though we were all having sex. 0:11:57.222 --> 0:11:59.822 Yeah, I guess every generation can point to these being 0:12:00.022 --> 0:12:03.662 seizmic traumatic events. I think the difference from millennials is 0:12:03.662 --> 0:12:05.902 that we saw it both ways. So we saw the 0:12:05.902 --> 0:12:08.462 Blockbuster and the Netflix, we saw the radio and the 0:12:08.462 --> 0:12:11.022 Spotify of it all. So take the Internet like a 0:12:11.062 --> 0:12:13.542 bridge in generation. There we are, we have to hold 0:12:13.542 --> 0:12:16.462 everyone else up. So do you remember there's there's a 0:12:16.542 --> 0:12:20.142 very famous New Yorker cartoon which features a dog sitting 0:12:20.182 --> 0:12:23.302 at a computer and typing, and the caption is on 0:12:23.342 --> 0:12:26.222 the Internet, no one knows You're a dog. That cartoon 0:12:26.262 --> 0:12:28.422 came out in the late nineties, and the humor of 0:12:28.462 --> 0:12:30.742 that cartoon was that you could be anyone you like 0:12:30.822 --> 0:12:31.422 on the Internet. 0:12:31.462 --> 0:12:35.062 No one used real names back then. You a radical idea. 0:12:35.222 --> 0:12:37.102 Yes, it was like the Internet was a sort of 0:12:37.142 --> 0:12:40.742 like mysterious fantasy realm where you never used your full name. 0:12:40.942 --> 0:12:43.222 You would never post a photo of your face on there. 0:12:43.542 --> 0:12:45.502 The idea was that on the Internet you'd come up 0:12:45.542 --> 0:12:48.422 with some ridiculous email address, you know, like whatever at 0:12:48.462 --> 0:12:50.702 hotmail dot com, Fluffy Unicorn. 0:12:50.342 --> 0:12:52.262 At hotmail dot com. You'd never use your name. 0:12:52.582 --> 0:12:54.902 And then we thought the Internet was a fun place 0:12:54.902 --> 0:12:57.662 where you could experiment with different personas. But then what 0:12:57.782 --> 0:13:00.942 gen Z came into was the Internet was real life. 0:13:01.102 --> 0:13:03.582 That was your person I wonder if even gen z 0:13:03.742 --> 0:13:07.102 uses do they say irl because we used IRL to 0:13:07.142 --> 0:13:09.822 denote this is the Internet, but this is real life. 0:13:09.902 --> 0:13:12.822 The thing that's interesting about this is so Plank's essay 0:13:12.902 --> 0:13:16.262 is very positive, right, It's very like we saw this 0:13:16.342 --> 0:13:20.262 amazing progressive era. She's American, so she'soid about American politics 0:13:20.382 --> 0:13:22.542 under Obama. That's why we believe in politics, and we 0:13:22.622 --> 0:13:24.622 believe in change and all these things. She's like, we 0:13:24.662 --> 0:13:26.302 got to party, we got to do all this stuff. 0:13:26.382 --> 0:13:28.902 What I really loved in this idea of you being 0:13:28.942 --> 0:13:31.782 a bridging generation is that and what Liz thank got 0:13:31.822 --> 0:13:34.502 to in this was that you experienced all of the 0:13:34.502 --> 0:13:36.422 good things, or a lot of the good things about 0:13:36.462 --> 0:13:41.222 the Internet before the really toxic things took hold. So 0:13:41.262 --> 0:13:44.982 She says millennials were the last generation to experience social 0:13:44.982 --> 0:13:47.102 media when it was fun, before it turned into a 0:13:47.102 --> 0:13:50.662 full time job. Social media was essentially one big group chat, 0:13:50.782 --> 0:13:52.982 just a place for your friends and family to keep 0:13:53.062 --> 0:13:55.622 up with you. The virtual world wasn't more important than 0:13:55.622 --> 0:13:59.622 the real one. The Internet really struck me because like 0:13:59.742 --> 0:14:02.822 my eldest child, he's not quite millennial. He's technically zed, 0:14:02.942 --> 0:14:06.542 but he's almost twenty eight. He didn't experience the toxicity 0:14:06.542 --> 0:14:09.982 of algorithms and social media. It was fun for him, 0:14:10.102 --> 0:14:13.382 and the Internet was full of opportunities in the beginning 0:14:13.422 --> 0:14:17.582 of streaming, and things were good before they became toxic. 0:14:17.702 --> 0:14:19.942 Yeah. I can even talk about the fact that I 0:14:20.062 --> 0:14:22.542 was there on the night that Facebook started. I don't 0:14:22.582 --> 0:14:24.422 know if I've shared this on the pod before, but 0:14:24.622 --> 0:14:27.702 I was at Harvard when Mark Zuckerberg started Facebook, and 0:14:27.742 --> 0:14:30.262 I remember the night it started. My roommate walked into 0:14:30.302 --> 0:14:33.022 my life the social network. 0:14:33.542 --> 0:14:35.742 Were you a CA? I don't know if we've spoken 0:14:35.782 --> 0:14:38.422 about this enough. O the Leicester. 0:14:38.862 --> 0:14:41.302 So I'm sitting in my year with this two thousand 0:14:41.342 --> 0:14:44.782 and four. Okay, I'm sitting in my dorm room and 0:14:45.062 --> 0:14:48.062 my roommate comes in and she says, have you heard 0:14:48.102 --> 0:14:51.422 of this thing called the Facebook? And it started literally 0:14:51.462 --> 0:14:53.542 a couple of hours beforehand. So I signed up. So 0:14:53.582 --> 0:14:55.662 I was the sixtieth user, and that used to be 0:14:55.702 --> 0:15:00.462 in my URL of my name Amelia sixty Amelia sixty 0:15:00.502 --> 0:15:03.662 not sixty nine, and face sixty. Everyone was super excited 0:15:03.702 --> 0:15:06.102 because it was the first time that you could upload 0:15:06.142 --> 0:15:08.982 a photo of yourself and put your name. It felt 0:15:09.022 --> 0:15:11.902 safe because it was a little closed ecosystem. You'd never 0:15:11.982 --> 0:15:14.382 done that before. The idea of putting your name and 0:15:14.462 --> 0:15:17.902 your face on the Internet was a new idea. 0:15:17.902 --> 0:15:20.942 And what made it feel safe because it just for. 0:15:20.942 --> 0:15:24.262 Harvard students, so it was just it was very restricted. 0:15:24.302 --> 0:15:27.542 And then it only became for other university students, and 0:15:27.582 --> 0:15:29.582 you know, it gradually got bigger and bigger, but it 0:15:29.662 --> 0:15:32.742 started as a closed ecosystem, so you joined that night. 0:15:32.942 --> 0:15:35.702 It had all these fields, like political views. Everyone put 0:15:35.782 --> 0:15:38.302 very liberal regardless of their political views, because that's what 0:15:38.342 --> 0:15:41.582 we did at the time. Favorite movie, favorite quote. People 0:15:41.622 --> 0:15:44.302 put Annie Hall as their favorite movie, which is like 0:15:44.582 --> 0:15:46.902 what we did on MySpace. Right, It was a bit 0:15:46.942 --> 0:15:50.102 like MySpace, but MySpace had a stigma around it because 0:15:50.222 --> 0:15:53.262 I think it still felt a little bit alternative, as 0:15:53.302 --> 0:15:56.062 Facebook was just what you did. Even that night, I 0:15:56.102 --> 0:15:58.702 felt a twinge of anxiety when I joined, And then 0:15:58.742 --> 0:16:01.142 after a few days I already started to feel that 0:16:01.262 --> 0:16:03.782 pit in my stomach that comes from social media, that 0:16:03.822 --> 0:16:06.182 comes from competing with other people on social. 0:16:05.902 --> 0:16:08.382 Media first time that we all know so well. 0:16:08.582 --> 0:16:12.142 Yes, And then I emailed Mark Zuckerberg because I wrote 0:16:12.142 --> 0:16:15.662 a column in the university newspaper, and I emailed him 0:16:15.662 --> 0:16:19.022 and said, Hi, Mark, I'm writing an article about the Facebook, 0:16:19.102 --> 0:16:21.622 and I'm trying to find out how to leave the Facebook, 0:16:21.742 --> 0:16:23.902 but there's no way to leave it. And he wrote 0:16:23.902 --> 0:16:27.022 back immediately. He was really worried and anxious because keep 0:16:27.062 --> 0:16:28.742 in mind, he was like twenty years old and didn't 0:16:28.782 --> 0:16:30.782 know what he was doing. He wrote back immediately. He 0:16:30.862 --> 0:16:32.982 was like Himelia, thanks for getting in touch. I'm so 0:16:33.022 --> 0:16:34.662 glad you're writing about it, because no one had written 0:16:34.702 --> 0:16:37.942 about it before, And he said, I haven't yet written 0:16:37.942 --> 0:16:43.302 the code to unjoin, but I'm working on it. And 0:16:43.422 --> 0:16:45.622 I look back on that and I think it's such 0:16:45.662 --> 0:16:48.742 a metaphor for what ended up happening, because we're all 0:16:48.782 --> 0:16:51.382 living in the Facebook world now and none of us 0:16:51.422 --> 0:16:52.742 can enjoin because he. 0:16:52.742 --> 0:16:55.422 Never wrote the code. So I wrote this article which 0:16:56.062 --> 0:16:57.982 now runs the world that yeah, he does. 0:16:58.342 --> 0:17:00.822 And so I wrote this article, which was the second 0:17:00.902 --> 0:17:03.822 ever published article. It was about Facebook. It was ten 0:17:03.902 --> 0:17:07.022 days after it had started. And basically the article, I 0:17:07.101 --> 0:17:09.702 was like, I feel bad about Facebook because it it 0:17:09.742 --> 0:17:10.742 only took ten days. 0:17:10.902 --> 0:17:12.942 I mean, you were an iconiclass. 0:17:13.262 --> 0:17:15.502 It's just that social media makes everyone feel bad. It 0:17:16.702 --> 0:17:19.502 wasn't a profound thought. It was just that I felt 0:17:19.502 --> 0:17:21.261 this pit in my stomach ten days in. 0:17:21.502 --> 0:17:25.262 And ironically, the Facebook was about rating women, That's what 0:17:25.341 --> 0:17:28.462 it was about. Galat face. So he was known to us. 0:17:28.621 --> 0:17:30.942 So when my roommate came in, I knew who Mark 0:17:31.022 --> 0:17:33.742 Zuckerberg was because a few months before that he had 0:17:34.262 --> 0:17:37.101 started face mash, which was where he took our official 0:17:37.141 --> 0:17:41.262 student ID photos and pitied both men and women's official 0:17:41.262 --> 0:17:43.022 photos against each other, and you had to vote for 0:17:43.061 --> 0:17:45.621 the hotter one. And I remember there was a ranking 0:17:45.661 --> 0:17:47.942 of the top ten women on campus and the top 0:17:47.982 --> 0:17:49.342 ten men, which is. 0:17:49.341 --> 0:17:53.381 What social media at its heart, basically, it is whether 0:17:53.462 --> 0:17:56.661 it's comparing faces or lifestyles. 0:17:57.222 --> 0:18:01.101 And he hadn't met Priscilla Chan, his wife. She was 0:18:01.222 --> 0:18:03.221 He met her in the line for the bathroom at 0:18:03.222 --> 0:18:05.381 a fraternity party, but he hadn't met her when he 0:18:05.381 --> 0:18:07.821 started facemash, so it very much read as sort of 0:18:07.861 --> 0:18:12.061 a horny opportunity stick, almost like twenty year old coding. 0:18:12.462 --> 0:18:16.341 Yeah. In Liz Plank's story about this Golden Age and 0:18:16.341 --> 0:18:20.861 why Millennials had it good, she says, the faces, My god, 0:18:20.901 --> 0:18:23.821 the faces. The women of that era had faces, distinct ones, 0:18:23.821 --> 0:18:27.421 faces with character and quirks, Noses that weren't mathematically whittled 0:18:27.462 --> 0:18:30.621 into aerodynamic ski slopes, lips that weren't pre measured to 0:18:30.901 --> 0:18:33.821 one to one to six golden ratio. Rihanna had her 0:18:33.821 --> 0:18:36.821 face care and Nightley had her jawline. Zoe Deschanel had 0:18:36.821 --> 0:18:39.462 her big, awkward round eyes. Women weren't expected to morph 0:18:39.581 --> 0:18:42.821 into an optimized version of beauty. There was no single 0:18:42.861 --> 0:18:46.262 template being mass produced in Beverly Hills and exploreded around 0:18:46.302 --> 0:18:49.981 the country. There was no singular, terrifying Instagram face. And 0:18:50.022 --> 0:18:52.742 you know why that was. It was because we very rarely. 0:18:52.502 --> 0:18:55.981 Saw ourselves in a photo because at your time, you 0:18:56.022 --> 0:18:58.902 had to go to the chemist to get photos produced, 0:18:59.022 --> 0:19:01.662 and so when the Facebook started, you had to literally 0:19:01.742 --> 0:19:04.821 scan in a photo. You didn't have digital photos of yourself, 0:19:05.061 --> 0:19:05.742 like cast. 0:19:05.542 --> 0:19:08.542 Your mind back. So beauty was more varied then, because now, 0:19:08.621 --> 0:19:12.101 for jen Z, it's completely homogenized and there is literally 0:19:12.141 --> 0:19:14.582 an algorithm that tells us what kind of beauty performs 0:19:14.581 --> 0:19:16.462 the best. It's Instagram face. 0:19:16.581 --> 0:19:18.542 I want to ask this bit about celebrity because you know, 0:19:18.542 --> 0:19:21.262 I'm obsessed with celebrity culture, right. One of the things 0:19:21.262 --> 0:19:23.662 that Liz writes that was great about pop culture at 0:19:23.661 --> 0:19:25.621