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Speaker 1: I was a very very reluctant psychiatric patient.

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Speaker 2: As were you embarrassed?

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Speaker 3: I was so embarrassed.

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Speaker 1: To me, it just felt like complete rock bottom that

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Speaker 1: I had ended up there, not just a failure as

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Speaker 1: a mother, but a failure as a psychologist to be

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Speaker 1: on the other side of the camera, you know, to

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Speaker 1: be the one who was being observed.

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Speaker 2: From Momama. You're listening to no filter and I'm mea Friedman.

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Speaker 2: The first days after having a baby, the first week's,

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Speaker 2: first years sometimes can be really hard. But for Ariane Beeston,

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Speaker 2: who's my guest today, one day when she was looking

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Speaker 2: at her newborn baby, his name was Henry, she didn't

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Speaker 2: see a little boy. She saw a dragon, and not

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Speaker 2: a cute, happy dragon, but a red faced, angry, threatening dragon.

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Speaker 2: That was the moment that arian knew something was really

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Speaker 2: wrong and that she shouldn't be seeing what she was seeing,

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Speaker 2: but she didn't tell anyone. Meanwhile, other very wrong, very

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Speaker 2: scary things were happening too, things that shouldn't be happening.

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Speaker 2: A few months later, she would be diagnosed with postpartum psychosis.

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Speaker 2: And it's interesting you may be familiar with postpartum depression.

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Speaker 2: I think most people are even if you haven't had

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Speaker 2: a baby. But postpartum psychosis is something altogether different, and

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Speaker 2: Arianne wasn't familiar with postpartum psychosis either until it happened

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Speaker 2: to her, and several years after she recovered, she decided

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Speaker 2: to share her story with the world in a wildly

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Speaker 2: good memoir called Because I'm Not Myself. You see, it's

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Speaker 2: about a woman finding her way out of her darkest

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Speaker 2: time after becoming the new mother. There are some laughs

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Speaker 2: in this conversation and a lot of hope, but we

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Speaker 2: also hear about the hardest moments when Ariane struggled with

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Speaker 2: feelings of wanting to end her life. So please listen mindfully.

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Speaker 2: I start this conversation by asking arian about a particular

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Speaker 2: case that she worked on when she worked as a

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Speaker 2: caseworker in child protection, and it was about the story

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Speaker 2: of a baby she calls Declin.

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Speaker 1: So I was a pretty new caseworker. I hadn't been

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Speaker 1: on the child protection team for very long, and we

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Speaker 1: received a notification from the helpline that we needed to

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Speaker 1: respond immediately the concerns where the parents had had an

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Speaker 1: argument in the hospital room where Declan was a patient.

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Speaker 1: He'd been admitted to hospital with a cold and a

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Speaker 1: little bit of nappy rash, and we responded. We went

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Speaker 1: to the hospital and there were concerns around family violence

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Speaker 1: and drug and alcohol use, mental health problems. We did

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Speaker 1: an assessment and it was determined that day that he

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Speaker 1: needed to come into care.

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Speaker 2: Because he wasn't safe to go home with his parents.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't safe at that point. So oftentimes we needed

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Speaker 1: to do that assessment really quickly. We had to make

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Speaker 1: decisions fast, and bringing him into care meant that we

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Speaker 1: were able to look into the situation a little bit more,

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Speaker 1: determine what supports the parents might need, or take the

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Speaker 1: case through the children's court, which is what ended up happening.

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Speaker 2: You talk about that also calmly, and I assume you

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Speaker 2: obviously have to be calm and kind of attached in

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Speaker 2: the moment, But I imagine those situations when you're taking children

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Speaker 2: from their parents at a time of intense drama in stress. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: what's actually like in that room when you have to

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Speaker 2: tell someone we're going to take you child because we

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Speaker 2: don't think he's safe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'm you're right, there's almost a detached

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Speaker 1: calmness talking about it now, But no, I can almost

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Speaker 1: feel in that moment, that conversation that needs to happen,

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Speaker 1: the actual physical act of taking the child. I talk

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Speaker 1: about in the book another example of being in a

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Speaker 1: in a police station and yeah, having to take it.

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Speaker 1: Think it was an eleven month old baby boy and yeah,

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Speaker 1: having to my colleague taking him. And because my colleague

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Speaker 1: was holding the baby, the father then went to attack

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Speaker 1: me and went to assault me in that moment, And

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Speaker 1: it was only that we were in a police station

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Speaker 1: surrounded by officers that yeah, probably wasn't physically harmed in

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Speaker 1: that moment. And I think I remember, I mean at

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Speaker 1: the time, I wasn't a parent, and so I mean

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Speaker 1: I could understand intellectually, I suppose what it must have

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Speaker 1: been like. But yeah, as a parent reflecting on that time,

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Speaker 1: it feels very very different.

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Speaker 2: You often when you went into people's houses, you had

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Speaker 2: to be accompanied by police officers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah safety, Yeah, in a number of situations. I think

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Speaker 1: there had been a few incidents as critical incidents as

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Speaker 1: prior to my joining the team, and that had certainly

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Speaker 1: become more common practice that we were accompanied by police.

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Speaker 2: How long did you do this work for? Because it

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Speaker 2: sounds incredibly grueling, and we know that child protection workers

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Speaker 2: particularly tend to burn out quite quickly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So I worked on the helpline for about eighteen

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Speaker 1: months and then I think I was in the field

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Speaker 1: for about two years, and then moved into the psychologist's

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Speaker 1: position and after that, so working which was a very

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Speaker 1: very different role. So you can imagine it wasn't doing

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Speaker 1: that frontline work. It was more working with foster cares

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Speaker 1: and children who'd been in care and more sort of

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Speaker 1: behavior management and yeah, working to support foster cares.

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Speaker 2: Tell me how you met Rob.

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Speaker 3: It was during a job interview. I was studying.

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Speaker 1: I was at university and at the time Rob was

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Speaker 1: looking for online moderators and he wanted sort of education

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Speaker 1: psychology students to come in and moderate these chat rooms

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Speaker 1: because you can imagine remember back in the day, maybe

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Speaker 1: little Avatar and you'd go in and yeah, you'd chat

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Speaker 1: with with other other people now the teenagers or other people,

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Speaker 1: and part of it was, yeah, making sure that there

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Speaker 1: was that safety development to it and looking out for

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Speaker 1: you know, the cyber sex to remember that was a

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Speaker 1: big feature.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you were like a virtual bouncer in

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Speaker 2: a way.

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Speaker 1: So I was an online moderator at Harbor Hotel and

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Speaker 1: so he hired me. I turned up for this job interview,

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Speaker 1: and that's how we met.

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Speaker 2: Like, was it sparks in the job interview? When did

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Speaker 2: you start dating?

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Speaker 3: It was? Actually, we laugh about it.

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Speaker 1: There was definitely a definitely an instant connection and a

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Speaker 1: lot of the funny part about that job was it

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Speaker 1: was mostly remote sort of even back in it, we

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Speaker 1: were doing remote work that was all shifts from home

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Speaker 1: and around the clock, so we didn't actually have a

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Speaker 1: huge amount to do with each other until sort of

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Speaker 1: later on and he'd moved into a more senior role,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, we sort of we had developed a really

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Speaker 1: strong friendship first and then it, yeah, developed from there.

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Speaker 2: So you guys were dating and together when you were

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Speaker 2: working in child protection.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we had just moved in together.

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Speaker 2: So did you always know you wanted to become a mother?

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Speaker 3: I always wanted to be a mom.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I'm the eldest of four, and yeah, I grew up

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Speaker 1: into the chaos of having a big family and lots

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Speaker 1: of siblings and lots of noise and lots of friends

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Speaker 1: over and there was always a exture of people in

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Speaker 1: the house. And yeah, I always always wanted to be

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Speaker 1: a mom. Always wanted to have two.

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Speaker 3: I had it all planned.

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Speaker 1: I was going to have my first child at twenty eight,

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Speaker 1: my second child at thirty, and I was going to

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Speaker 1: get on with my career.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, it was all sort of.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly how it worked out. Yeah, spoiler alert, it

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Speaker 2: didn't plot Twiss. Tell me about finding out that you

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Speaker 2: were pregnant. Did you get pregnant easily?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the easiest part me. When I talk

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Speaker 1: about this story, like the act, that was Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: was the easy part. And in a way it was

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Speaker 1: it was unexpected. I think we were surrounded at that

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Speaker 1: time by people who seemed to be having problems falling

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Speaker 1: pregnant and fertility problems, and and so I think we

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Speaker 1: assumed that, you know, it might take six to twelve months,

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Speaker 1: and better kind of get it, get ahead, start just

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Speaker 1: in case it did. And yeah, I think we felt

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Speaker 1: pregnant first go. So it was a bit of a

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Speaker 1: bit of a surprise that it happened so fast.

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Speaker 2: Tell me about your pregnancy. You write that some of

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Speaker 2: the ghosts of your very intense ballet training you've been

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Speaker 2: a dancer when you were younger, came back to haunt

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Speaker 2: you during pregnancy, like the tracking and the monitoring and

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Speaker 2: the obsessing tell me about that.

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Speaker 1: So I always wanted to be a ballerina and trained

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Speaker 1: all the way through my teenage years. And I was

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Speaker 1: too short to be a ballet dancer, which is not

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Speaker 1: something you know, most people think about dancers and the

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Speaker 1: kind of thin that's the aesthetic ideal that people think about.

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Speaker 1: But there's also very strict kind of parameters around height.

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Speaker 1: So I think the perfect hide is one hundred and

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Speaker 1: sixty five to about one hundred and seventy five. It

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Speaker 1: might be different now, but yeah, I stopped growing. I

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Speaker 1: was five foot one. I was also too muscular. I

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Speaker 1: had very muscular, muscular legs, and yeah, I was I

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Speaker 1: just was all wrong. So yeah, those those adolescent years

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Speaker 1: were spent really trying to mold and change my body

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Speaker 1: to fit this aesthetic ideal that I just was never

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Speaker 1: able to achieve, or not to achieve in a healthy way.

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Speaker 2: Well, you can starve yourself thinner, but you can't starve

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Speaker 2: yourself taller.

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Speaker 3: No, And that was that was the problem.

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Speaker 1: There's only so much you can do, and I think

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Speaker 1: once I sort of realized that there was nothing I

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Speaker 1: could really do, like I was never going to be

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Speaker 1: the aesthetic ideal. I mean, it was a heartbreak, it

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Speaker 1: was a it was a grief and I very much

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Speaker 1: sort of put that aspect of my life behind me,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, decided I was going to throw myself into

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Speaker 1: into study and psychology and completely.

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Speaker 3: Changed my life track.

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Speaker 1: But as we know for a lot of women, perinatal

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Speaker 1: period is when those disordered eating habits can either happen

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Speaker 1: for the first time or can reappear. And I really

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Speaker 1: struggled with I really really struggled with my changing body.

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Speaker 1: I really struggled with how I felt in my skin.

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Speaker 1: I didn't feel Yeah, I didn't feel beautiful. I didn't

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Speaker 1: feel like I was glowing. I just felt all wrong.

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Speaker 1: And for me, it definitely stirred that, like he said,

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Speaker 1: beautifully before those ghosts, Yeah, sort of stirred that dormant beast.

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Speaker 1: And I, yeah, really really struggled with eating and trying to,

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Speaker 1: you know, wrestling with those ideas of you know, the

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Speaker 1: baby needs to be healthy and you want to do everything,

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Speaker 1: but at the same time, yeah, really not feeling good

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Speaker 1: about myself.

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Speaker 2: You also started to think or obsess or feel very

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Speaker 2: anxious about birth defects. Yeah, and you were very specific

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Speaker 2: in the birth defect that you were concerned. Can you

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Speaker 2: tell me about that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was reflecting on this recently, and I wonder

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Speaker 1: whether at the time, obviously I was still watching a

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Speaker 1: lot of commercial TV, and there was the ad a

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Speaker 1: lot at the time for the Elevant you know, the

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Speaker 1: prenatal vitamins and like Folllate.

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Speaker 2: There was a lot of obsession around about foll Aight. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I remember when I was pregnant. It was this idea

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Speaker 2: of you need to start taking fullate before you get pregnant,

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Speaker 2: because that's that's you know, in those first few weeks.

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Speaker 3: Is it's those first few years that's really true.

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Speaker 2: When most women don't even know they're pregnant.

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Speaker 3: No, exactly.

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Speaker 1: And I think that stuck somewhere in my mind, obviously,

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Speaker 1: and that's what the anxiety latched onto. So and I

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Speaker 1: think too, because I'd fallen, we'd fallen pregnant so quickly,

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Speaker 1: I did worry or maybe I hadn't taken the folllight

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Speaker 1: or I hadn't taken enough vitamins before falling pregnant. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I became really fixated that he had till the baby

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Speaker 1: had some kind of neural tube defect and that I

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Speaker 1: would be told at the twenty week scan that there

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Speaker 1: was something wrong with him. Yeah, I just I didn't

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Speaker 1: feel that I was able to bond or attach at

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Speaker 1: all during pregnancy because I just assumed that something was going.

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Speaker 2: To go wrong. Yeah, that was what happened at that

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Speaker 2: twenty week scan. Those scans are awful. I hated all

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Speaker 2: my scans.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a stressful one, that that twenty week scan.

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Speaker 2: Sc anxiety they call it anxiety.

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Speaker 1: Him and he was fine, and remember the yeah obstetricians

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Speaker 1: saying everything, everything looks good, and yeah, he was healthy.

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Speaker 1: And I remember it was almost at that moment when

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Speaker 1: the anxiety sort of folded in on itself and then

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Speaker 1: it just became I mean, what I now know was

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Speaker 1: an antenatal depression, but I didn't certainly didn't have the

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Speaker 1: language or to describe it as such at the time.

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Speaker 1: And I think because it was like qualitatively very different

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Speaker 1: to what happened postpartum, mean that it was a real

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Speaker 1: sort of absence of emotion and a real everything just

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Speaker 1: seemed very strict of color. Everything was gray. This is

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Speaker 1: towards the end of the pregnancy, which just felt so

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Speaker 1: strange and out of step with what I had expected

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Speaker 1: it to be like and what society almost tells you.

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Speaker 2: Had you experienced depression or anxiety before tea?

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Speaker 1: That's an interesting question. Yes, I think so. Had I

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Speaker 1: been clinically diagnosed and treated for it?

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Speaker 2: No, so you weren't on any medication. You didn't have

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Speaker 2: the language of oh, this is my anxiety. It was

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Speaker 2: more there's something wrong with my baby. I hate my body.

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Speaker 3: I feel exactly, I feel flat or flat. Yeah, And

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Speaker 3: I think.

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Speaker 1: For me, I had definitely experienced We talked earlier about

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Speaker 1: huge op protection work and those periods of just burnout,

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Speaker 1: and I think I had written off those periods of

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Speaker 1: feeling flat and down as I'm just really burnt out,

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Speaker 1: rather than I'm clinically depressed. So yeah, certainly, retrospectively, I

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Speaker 1: could say, yeah, I certainly had had periods of anxiety

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Speaker 1: and depression, which then placed me at higher risk. Obviously postpartum,

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Speaker 1: as we know when.

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Speaker 2: You were pregnant and you were feeling this way, the

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Speaker 2: fears and the flatness, could you tell anyone? Could you

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Speaker 2: talk to Rob about it or any of your girlfriends,

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Speaker 2: because there's a lot of pressure to are you so excited?

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Speaker 2: Is this the best thing that's ever happened.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, I didn't say a word. I didn't say a word.

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Speaker 1: I put on my performance ace, and yeah, I just sort.

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Speaker 2: Of performed pregnancy performed excited. I did expect it.

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Speaker 1: And I think I was the first in our sort

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Speaker 1: of friends group to have a baby, so I didn't

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Speaker 1: really have a lot to compare it to. And so again, yeah,

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Speaker 1: have that kind of chorus of voices of women who

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Speaker 1: are excited to you but haven't gone through it themselves,

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Speaker 1: and the days sort of you know, oh, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: must be so excited, and the anticipation, but yeah, not

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Speaker 1: not not not having gone through it themselves, they didn't.

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Speaker 1: I think have that perspective as well, that as we

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Speaker 1: know when you've gone through it, you tend to be

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Speaker 1: a bit more measured in how you ask pregnant women

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Speaker 1: how they're feeling or what their experience is like, because

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Speaker 1: we know it's not always blissful and a lot of

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Speaker 1: women spend nine months with their head down the toilet

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Speaker 1: and it can be miserable and there's a lot of pressure. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: to feel grateful and blessed.

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Speaker 2: And Henry was born and placed in your arms.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what did you feel.

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Speaker 2: In that moment, and what did you expect to feel

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Speaker 2: in that moment.

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Speaker 1: I remember, I remember feeling it was almost like an

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Speaker 1: out of body experience.

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Speaker 3: I remember looking down at him.

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Speaker 1: And and I'm very little, and the whole way through pregnancy,

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Speaker 1: I'd been told, you know, he's measuring small, he's little,

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Speaker 1: he's really little. We're worried about his growth. And he

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Speaker 1: was placed on me and he was actually big. He

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Speaker 1: was very healthy. I think three point four kilos.

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Speaker 2: Wow, which is that's a sizeable baby.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it was a large boy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so the kind of it didn't the baby

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Speaker 1: and we talk women talk about this a lot, with

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Speaker 1: the baby you imagine during your pregnancy and then the

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Speaker 1: baby that you have of two very different things. And

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Speaker 1: so yeah, I just remember him being much bigger and

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Speaker 1: much heavier, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, on my on my chest than I had expected.

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Speaker 1: And I remember, I mean, there's so much pressure to

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Speaker 1: feel that rush of love, or you expect to feel

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Speaker 1: that rush of love at first sight, that suddenly life

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Speaker 1: in the universe and everything will make sense in that moment,

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Speaker 1: and I just didn't feel anything. It was just this

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Speaker 1: very strange sense of nothing. And I've since learned that

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Speaker 1: that's actually very very common, that that almost powerful sense

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Speaker 1: of indifference to when when women see their baby for

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Speaker 1: the first time. It's indifference. Nothing, not necessarily positive, not

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Speaker 1: necessarily negative, just oh well, what is this little stranger,

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Speaker 1: this little person who I've housed for nine months and

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Speaker 1: now they're here? And yeah, oftentimes you women go through

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Speaker 1: when they go through a traumatic birth as well, and

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Speaker 1: that that experience just isn't what they expect, and it

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Speaker 1: can be quite distressing, I think for a lot of

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Speaker 1: women when they expect to feel that rush of love

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Speaker 1: and it just doesn't arrive.

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Speaker 2: You're right, so beautifully in your book. Wrenched from between

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Speaker 2: my legs, Henry's now under my chin, the midwife grabs

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Speaker 2: my breast, places the baby's mouth around it, and I

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Speaker 2: lie there, shocked, depleted, a new citizen of what the

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Speaker 2: poet is very calls the republic of motherhood. I wait

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Speaker 2: for the love to come. I wait for the moments

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Speaker 2: they show in movies, the scenes I've read in books.

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Speaker 2: I look at this boy, this perfect crying boy, and

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Speaker 2: I feel nothing. Nothing you talked about when you're working

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Speaker 2: with babies, you didn't know much like I'm out of

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Speaker 2: my depth. What do I know about babies? And then

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Speaker 2: someone gives you one and asks you to take care

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Speaker 2: of your own. And I know there's a moment I

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Speaker 2: think for every new parent when you're driving away from

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Speaker 2: the hospital and you're like, are they just gonna let

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Speaker 2: us collect me go home with this baby?

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Speaker 3: Like I need a note?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I asked me what FID Like I don't know

345
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Speaker 2: what to do? How can we be legal?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Exactly, it does feel a little bit. Did you

347
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:07,200
Speaker 3: check all about.

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Speaker 2: After this shortbreak? Arion brings Henry home and tries to

349
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Speaker 2: begin well motherhood, but things do not go to plan.

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Speaker 2: Stay with us. When you got home, in those first

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Speaker 2: few days adjusting after Henry was born, how did you feel, like?

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Speaker 2: What are your memory of those days or is it

353
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Speaker 2: just a blank?

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Speaker 3: It is a bit of a blank.

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Speaker 1: And I know I say that because I know that

356
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Speaker 1: it was probably about day four or day five that

357
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,840
Speaker 1: the first psychotic symptoms for me started to show. I

358
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Speaker 1: remember the slow drive home from hospital, which is again

359
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 1: a really universal experience in partnersad were going really slowly

360
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Speaker 1: with your precious cargo.

361
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Speaker 2: The world seems very dangerous and full of threat.

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Speaker 1: Every year exactly, and that even if it's a short

363
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Speaker 1: drive home. Yeah, it's a very universal feeling. A lot

364
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,199
Speaker 1: of people can relate to that. I remember, again a

365
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,600
Speaker 1: common experience if you get home and what do we

366
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Speaker 1: do now? But also managing the rush of visitors as well,

367
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:24,080
Speaker 1: and everybody wants to come to hold the baby, and

368
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,800
Speaker 1: the baby so again wrenched out of your arms and

369
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:33,200
Speaker 1: passed around and people often mean well, but again don't

370
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 1: necessarily know how to help or how to be useful,

371
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 1: and so you're there sort of entertaining people as well.

372
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 1: There's a lot of pressure, Yeah, a lot of pressure.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I think a lot of women decide

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Speaker 1: for their second or subsequent babies that they're going to

375
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 1: do things very very different.

376
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Speaker 2: On the fourth day, you were changing Henry's nappy. What happened?

377
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Speaker 1: I was changing here snappy was in the middle of

378
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 1: the night, as you do, and he had a little

379
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,440
Speaker 1: bit of a nappy rash, which is very common, especially

380
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Speaker 1: for newborns.

381
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Speaker 3: They get nappy rash.

382
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Speaker 1: And for whatever reason, in that moment, my brain connected

383
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 1: it with the cases that I had worked in child

384
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 1: protection and baby Declan who had a bit of nappy

385
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,160
Speaker 1: rash and who we had taken into care, not for

386
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 1: that reason, and I had the first of the psychotic symptoms,

387
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 1: which was the false belief or the delusion that somehow

388
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:43,439
Speaker 1: dogs or child protection would know that he had this

389
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 1: nappy rash and that they were going to come and

390
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 1: remove him. They were going to come and take him away.

391
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Speaker 1: And I knew that because I had done that myself. Yeah,

392
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,959
Speaker 1: so it was a very powerful sense of I mean,

393
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,439
Speaker 1: it was a paranoia or a sense of that I

394
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 1: was being under surveillance and that they would know and

395
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 1: he was going to come.

396
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 2: And when you say, because some people listening to this

397
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 2: might think, oh, yeah, maybe you were just having you know,

398
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 2: new sort of sympathy or empathy for that mother and

399
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 2: what it must have been like for her, and wouldn't

400
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 2: it be awful? Because sometimes we play out these hypotheticals,

401
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:27,359
Speaker 2: right like what would happen if I accidentally dropped the baby?

402
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 2: Wouldn't that be terrible? Or you know, you're very.

403
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,719
Speaker 3: Alert those intrusive thoughts. Yeah, very common, Yeah, intrusive thoughts.

404
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 2: But a day or so later, there was a knock

405
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,640
Speaker 2: at the door unexpectedly. What did you do? How did

406
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 2: you react to that?

407
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,440
Speaker 1: I lay down flat on the floor in the kitchen,

408
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 1: and I waited until whoever it was left, and I

409
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 1: remember my heart just pounding into the floor. Yeah and yeah,

410
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:03,159
Speaker 1: just assuming that it was so workers coming to take him, because.

411
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Speaker 2: We all have irrational anxiety sometimes or fears, I guess,

412
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 2: but this was more a certainty, like you just knew

413
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 2: that that was what was going to happen.

414
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 1: I was just waiting. I was waiting for it to happen.

415
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 1: It was inevitable.

416
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 2: It was inevitable. It was just your body was reacting

417
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 2: as though someone was actually on their way to take

418
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,880
Speaker 2: your baby. Yes, did you tell Rob?

419
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: I it's interesting we have very different memories of this time.

420
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,919
Speaker 3: And I mean memoirs tough, isn't it me?

421
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 1: I mean you've written memoir and when you're sort of

422
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: digging back and collecting those snippets of memories to check

423
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 1: your own. Yeah, I think he has sort of memories

424
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: of me. Almost what we now know is almost sort

425
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,959
Speaker 1: of trying throwing little things out like I wanted someone

426
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 1: to ask or probe, but I wasn't ready to. And

427
00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 1: actually part of that was not so much around docs

428
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 1: coming to remove him, but I was very concerned about

429
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 1: the rash and not I didn't vocalize that I was

430
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 1: worried about docs coming, but I was obviously very very

431
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 1: worried about it, and out of proportion worried about it.

432
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: And he was traveling a bit for work, and I mean,

433
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: we can laugh at it now, but he has memories

434
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 1: of sitting, you know, at a boardroom in LA He

435
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: was working for the Walt Disney Company for Club Penguin

436
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: at the time, and as memories of opening up his

437
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 1: phone and just me sending him picture after picture of

438
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 1: this rash and just saying, it's really bad. Isn't it

439
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 1: like there's something really wrong. It's really really bad, and

440
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 1: Rob just thinking that I was just anxious and just

441
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 1: trying to reassure me. And you know, it looks okay.

442
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:51,919
Speaker 1: Have you used the cream? And have you given him

443
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 1: some nappy free time? Saying all the right things because

444
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,719
Speaker 1: he's beautiful. But it was more around I started to

445
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: have these halloosin nations where I found it really difficult

446
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: to make out what Henry looked like, and his face

447
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 1: just never looked right to me. I could never make

448
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: out the features of his face, really hard to articulate now,

449
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 1: and I would sometimes would see him as a little dragon,

450
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 1: so I would hallucinate and he would just be this

451
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: little dragon, not like, isn't.

452
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 2: He a cute little dragon? But actually physically look like

453
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 2: a drag. His face would look like a dragon's face.

454
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 2: Was it a friendly dragon?

455
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 3: Mostly? No, some more friendly than others.

456
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 1: I remember particularly scary relapse, and it was a very

457
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: angry red dragon.

458
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 2: What did you do when he looked like a dragon?

459
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:57,439
Speaker 1: I mean, you do start to question your sanity? What's

460
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: am I seeing things? Am I just really hired? Surely

461
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 1: I didn't see that? Surely not? And then when it

462
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 1: became more frequent, I knew something wasn't right. But I

463
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 1: was also a newly registered psychologist. I was a mental

464
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: health professional, and I was really worried that if I

465
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: spoke up, if I was too honest about what was

466
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 1: going on and some of those things that were happening,

467
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: that they might take away my registration, my ability to practice,

468
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 1: that I might never be able to work again.

469
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 2: So it's interesting that you don't say you're worried they'd

470
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 2: take away your baby.

471
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: No. At that point, the early delusions around the removals, Yeah,

472
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: that was sort of more early on, and then it

473
00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 1: definitely morphed into the hallucinations and the sense that I

474
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: had died as well, that I was dead and that

475
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 1: I never actually existed. I wasn't real, and if I

476
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: was dead, then it wouldn't matter if I took my

477
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 1: own life because I never existed in the first place.

478
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 1: I was never real, no one would miss me, and yeah,

479
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 1: and I would get stuck on that loop of thought

480
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 1: about never actually existing.

481
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 2: That must have been so terrifying.

482
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 3: It was.

483
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: It's actually one of the most difficult things to even

484
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 1: still talk about. I think everything else is sort of

485
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: I can reflect on, almost clinically with a bit of distance,

486
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: but that feeling of being confused about whether or not

487
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: I was alive or dead and what that would mean if, yeah,

488
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: if I actually did take my own life, by that point,

489
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: I had become very suicidal, and that almost that canceled

490
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 1: that out. And so you can see, I think why

491
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: or how dangerous it can be when you get stuck

492
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: on these loops of thought around suicidality, because to me,

493
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: it just made complete sense. It wouldn't matter because I

494
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 1: was dead anyway, I didn't exist, I never existed.

495
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 2: When you had these delusions when Henry became a dragon,

496
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 2: when you thought that you were alive, Were you always

497
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 2: alone or was there sometimes rather to.

498
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: Be I tended to be mere, which is really which

499
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: is quite interesting. I feel like I came into existence

500
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: when when other people were around, because you can sort

501
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: of relate, you know, when someone else is there.

502
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 2: It's like Rob's talking to me, I must be alive

503
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 2: exactly when he wasn't exactly.

504
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: And those the most powerful memories of of not forlfeeling

505
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: like not existing, tended to be when I was alone,

506
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:09,959
Speaker 1: or when I was pushing the pram and yeah, just

507
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: pushing a pram as you do around the back streets.

508
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: And I would sit there sometimes in the playground and

509
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: take photos of my feet just to prove that I existed.

510
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: And I would look at these photos and it was

511
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: just pictures of my shoes to make sure that they

512
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: came up in the in the pictures, just to.

513
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 3: Prove that I was real.

514
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: I don't know why it was on my feet, but

515
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: I have, yeah, hundreds of pictures of just my feet

516
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: that Rob saved in a file somewhere because it's like

517
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: you might want to look at those one day. Part

518
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: of your story.

519
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 2: How old was Henry by now? Over what period of

520
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 2: time was this happening, and had you still not told anybody?

521
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 1: By six months it was too hard to hide. Not

522
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: so much what was going gone in my head with

523
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: the delusions and the hallucinations, but the physical aspects of

524
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: the depression had become really obvious by then. So I

525
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: was very I had no appetite, I couldn't sleep, and

526
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: I was just vacant. There was nothing there behind my eyes.

527
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 3: The light had gone.

528
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: It was very obvious to people around me that something

529
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: wasn't right. And Rob went overseas for work, and the

530
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: moment he left that particular day, something just broke and

531
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: I couldn't stop crying. And it was the first time

532
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: where I hadn't been able to kind of regulate my

533
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: own emotions around the baby. I think up until that

534
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: point I had been able to keep it together.

535
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 2: For him and perform motherhood and.

536
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 1: Perform motherhood, and I couldn't perform anymore. I was just

537
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: I couldn't stop crying. And so that's when, yeah, I

538
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 1: went to seek help for the first time.

539
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 2: What did that look like?

540
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: That looked like Initially being sent to a male psychiatrist

541
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: who just wasn't the right fit came highly recommended, but

542
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: I mean, you know what it's like you've been with

543
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: over the years.

544
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 3: I'm sure different. You have to have a few professionals.

545
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, but did someone straight away say to you postnatal depression?

546
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 2: I mean, I know that you took the standard screening

547
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 2: test for post natal depression pretty soon after Henry was born,

548
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 2: but you passed that with flying colors.

549
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

550
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 2: So, how did you slip through the net in that

551
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 2: six months or is it something that hit later or

552
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 2: is it about your performance that you were just so

553
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 2: good at performing?

554
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: Some of it was performance, some of it was as

555
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 1: a mental health professional. I knew what to say and

556
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: what not to say. I knew what boxes or what

557
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: things to circle and what not to circle.

558
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 2: I knew he lied yes to escape detection.

559
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 3: I did.

560
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not uncommon. I know a lot of

561
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: a lot of women later sort of almost fess up

562
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: and say, oh I lied on that test too.

563
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 3: I lied.

564
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: So yeah, definitely at that early mark, I evaded detection.

565
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 2: Well, so Rob goes overseas you're you fall apart? Yeah,

566
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 2: you go to the doctor.

567
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 3: Yep.

568
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 2: I imagine it's hard, particularly if you're not being completely

569
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 2: truthful yet. Yes, How what's then the path to being

570
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 2: admitted to hospital.

571
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, the psychiatric unit.

572
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 1: So the psychiatrist I had seen just wasn't the right fit.

573
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: He went in, I think with the assumption that you're, Oh,

574
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: you're a psychologist, have you tried these strategies? And to

575
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: me that sounded like, oh, you're a psychologist, have you

576
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: tried to fix Why haven't you fixed yourself yet?

577
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 3: Sure, he didn't mean it that way.

578
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 2: It felt shaming. Yeah.

579
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, And by that point I had tried an SSRI,

580
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 1: so an antidepressant. It wasn't working. Again, I was I

581
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: had become increasingly suicidal. I had no sort of safety

582
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: net of a good psychologist or psychiatrist. At that point,

583
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 1: it just became Yeah, I guess I needed more intense support.

584
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: I needed someone to do a proper assessment, medication review,

585
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: and yeah, just to get that almost like yeah, it's

586
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: like a bubble almost, those units, other baby units. You

587
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 1: go in and you're sort of a little bit protected

588
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: from the world and from the stresses of the outside

589
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: world in a way where you can focus on just recovery,

590
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 1: bonding with your baby and getting help around mothercraft and

591
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 1: those sorts of things, and also filing different medications under

592
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: supervision watching out for those side effects.

593
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 2: And the idea is keeping the keeping the baby with

594
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:04,399
Speaker 2: the mother.

595
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,760
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, exactly, which.

596
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 2: Is interesting because most people would think, oh, you would

597
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 2: want to separate the baby and the mother, so to

598
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 2: give the mother a rest and also to protect the baby.

599
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 3: It's interesting, isn't it.

600
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: But know these units, I mean, we know that if

601
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 1: it's safe to do so, if it's safe to keep

602
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 1: mum and baby together it's a treatment, then that's where

603
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 1: they should be.

604
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 2: Arian Can I ask you a really hard question, did

605
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 2: you ever think about hurting Henry or yourself?

606
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 3: Never? Never thought about.

607
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 2: It, even when he was a dragon, even.

608
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: When he was a dragon. No, that was never. It

609
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: was always about myself, It was never about never about him.

610
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's why it was established that you were

611
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 2: not a danger to him. Yeah, and as long as

612
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 2: you were safe in hospital, he could be with you.

613
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 3: Exactly.

614
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: And there are situations where women do have to be

615
00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: separated and put in hospital by themselves, but yeah, no,

616
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: for me, it was determined that the best place for

617
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: us was to be admitted together.

618
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 2: When we return, we hear about the help that Arianne

619
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 2: received in hospital and when she finally felt the clouds

620
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 2: begin to part stay with us. There was a particular

621
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 2: turning point for you? Henry was now about nine months old.

622
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 2: What was the turning point in the hospital.

623
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: I was a very very reluctant psychiatric patient, very reluctant.

624
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 3: As were you.

625
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 2: Embarrassed.

626
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: I was so embarrassed it was absolute to me. It

627
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: just felt like complete rock bottom that I had ended

628
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: up there, not just a failure as a mother, but

629
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 1: a failure as a mental health professional, as a psychologist

630
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 1: and someone who had worked in a similar space. To

631
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: be on the other side of the camera, you know,

632
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: to be the one who is being observed and watched

633
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 1: was very shameful.

634
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 2: Can you explain that because literally you had to be

635
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,399
Speaker 2: observed interacting with Henry to make sure that you were

636
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 2: not a danger to him.

637
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 1: I think so in that context, it wasn't so much

638
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 1: about being danger. I think that that episode wasn't so

639
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: much about safety. That was more about part of being admitted.

640
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: A lot of women come in and they are having

641
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 1: issues around attachment and bonding, and for a lot of women,

642
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 1: it doesn't sort of we expect that to come naturally,

643
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: that you should just know how to relate to your

644
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: baby and we know that's not the case. A lot

645
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 1: of women have to learn how to respond to their baby.

646
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 1: So that was part of being admitted. Part of the

647
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 1: program was that you would be filmed interacting with your baby,

648
00:37:55,880 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: and so the nurses would basically watch you in a

649
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: one on one scenario and then they would give you

650
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: feedback basically that, yeah.

651
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 2: Talk about a performance review under pressure Exactually.

652
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: It's actually and yeah, I was able to perform you know,

653
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: motherhood on command. But it was a very humbling experience

654
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 1: to be on the other side. But you asked me

655
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:28,280
Speaker 1: about the turning point, and I tell this story about

656
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 1: being observed because a lot of that is about looking

657
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 1: at attachment and attachment behaviors. And when I went into hospital,

658
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: I was very concerned that Henry and I hadn't developed

659
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 1: that attachment and that bond. And I felt that he

660
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: and I used this language actually in the notes that

661
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 1: I've read, he doesn't like me, he doesn't need me,

662
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,959
Speaker 1: he doesn't want me. Just a real sense of yeah,

663
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: that that wasn't happening. And each day we had to

664
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 1: go to we had to do group therapy, and the

665
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 1: babies would go into a nursery to be looked after

666
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 1: by the staff to give us a break while we

667
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: did our therapy, and I remember he would have been

668
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 1: here about nine months, and I gave him to one

669
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: of the nurses and he started to cry, and he

670
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 1: started to show those behaviors of not wanting to be

671
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: deporated and sort of reached reached out to me, and

672
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,879
Speaker 1: one of the other women I was in there with said, oh,

673
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 1: that my heart breaks, you know that that's so sad,

674
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: and I remember saying, no, this is great, Like this means.

675
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:37,720
Speaker 3: That he misses me. This means that.

676
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 1: He he you know, he does love me, does need me,

677
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: and that he knows that I'm his mom and he

678
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: doesn't want to just go to anyone. And through the

679
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: act of handing him over to a stranger and him

680
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: reaching out to me was just this really powerful moment

681
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: of no, it's it's it's okay, like it's there. And

682
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,839
Speaker 1: I remember going off to therapy and then coming back

683
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 1: and opening the child gate in the nursery and him

684
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 1: just crawling towards me with this big beaming smile and

685
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 1: me picking him up and just feeling like, oh my gosh,

686
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 1: this is what everybody this is that feeling, This is

687
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 1: what everybody talks about, and I just remember being completely

688
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,720
Speaker 1: just smitten and yeah, wow.

689
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 2: Before that, it's like, that's the performance review you needed. Yes,

690
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 2: before that. How did you feel about him? Did you

691
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 2: like him? Did you love him? Did you were you

692
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 2: kind of just indifferent to him? Did you were you

693
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,839
Speaker 2: angry at him? How did you feel about him?

694
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: It's a really great question. I felt definitely a sense

695
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 1: of that I wanted to protect him, and you know

696
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: that that's that sense of intense responsibility that comes with

697
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 1: motherhood and parenthood.

698
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 2: Did you like him?

699
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 1: I think I did like him. I did like I

700
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 1: found him fascinating. But I just kept waiting for that

701
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 1: feeling that everybody helped about. And I remember a doctor

702
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 1: explaining to me at some point it's like it's there, Aria,

703
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,439
Speaker 1: and the feeling is there. It's there, it's just you're

704
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: not well and it will come. Yeah, So I felt

705
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: like it's in there, it's just buried. And it was

706
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 1: that moment in hospital when he had that big smile

707
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: and that I don't want to be separated because you're

708
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 1: my mom, and yeah, that was the rash. That was

709
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 1: the movie moment. It just came nine months later.

710
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 2: And in the movie that would be like the closing credit.

711
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can hear the music.

712
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it would be.

713
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 3: Like hanging the baby exactly.

714
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 2: You're gazing into each other's eyes and it would be beautiful.

715
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:53,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

716
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 2: What actually happened over the next few months you got

717
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,240
Speaker 2: out of hospital. That must have been a relief.

718
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 3: It was a relief. I really struggled.

719
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 2: Did the medication work to take away the hallucinations and

720
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 2: the psychiotgist.

721
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, by then we'd sort of come up with the

722
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: right medication. I was referred to a brilliant perinatal psychiatrist,

723
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 1: doctor Q, and she was the first person who looked

724
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 1: at all of the different sort of I amassed all

725
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 1: of these different clinicians and their notes and their kind

726
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 1: of assessments. And she was the first person who looked

727
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 1: at everything and just thought, there's something not right here,

728
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: There's something that doesn't add up. And she was the

729
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: first person who said, no, you had a psychotic depression.

730
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 3: I was the first person to explain.

731
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 2: There's even more to Arian's story, and you can hear

732
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 2: the rest of it in part two, where she tells

733
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,880
Speaker 2: me what a diagnosis of psychosis means, what life was

734
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 2: like after she was discharged from the hospital, how she

735
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 2: learnt to trust spending time with Henry, and how things

736
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 2: went again horribly wrong before she finally turned a corner

737
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 2: to where she is now. You can find the link

738
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,439
Speaker 2: to part two in the show notes, and that's where

739
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 2: you'll also find links to some support services that Arianne

740
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 2: has provided us. If this conversation has brought up some

741
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 2: issues for you and you think you might need some help,