Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. What are we talking about?
Speaker 2: We're talking about cajeggs, free range eggs, organic eggs, regular
Speaker 2: or large? Are we talking about brain fed eggs, barnlaid
Speaker 2: vegetarian eggs, hormone free eggs? What about omega and rich
Speaker 2: This is a very hard question.
Speaker 1: Are we talking about Cadbury cream eggs? Yes, because I
Speaker 1: know how much they cost. I can't believe how much that.
Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia out loud.
Speaker 2: It's what women are actually talking about. On Monday, the
Speaker 2: twenty eighth of April, I'm Holly Wainwright and we are
Speaker 2: revving up for a big week. We were just talking
Speaker 2: about Jesse Sweat Patches.
Speaker 1: On the road again. We're getting on the road. We'll
Speaker 1: be in Perth in just a couple of days for
Speaker 1: the first night of our tour.
Speaker 4: Our live tour proportion is maya between how much you
Speaker 4: have thought talked about contributed to cost student's outfits on
Speaker 4: stage and how much you've actually thought about the content.
Speaker 1: I've been working on our outfits for weeks but it
Speaker 1: was only just a couple of days ago that I
Speaker 1: was like, I probably should look at the script. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: and I had no idea what we were doing in
Speaker 1: the show.
Speaker 2: She also had a major break through costume related breaks. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I liked moment, so perf You're in for a treat.
Speaker 2: So all the out louders who are coming to the show,
Speaker 2: I'm Holly Wayne right, I already.
Speaker 1: Said that, I'm me a Friedman. And also thanks to
Speaker 1: Nivia Sellula for supporting us on this tour.
Speaker 3: I am Jesse Stevens and on the show today.
Speaker 2: Is there a right way to tell your partner that
Speaker 2: you're into someone else? What if you met that other person?
Speaker 2: In front of the world on reality TV? Welcome to
Speaker 2: JoJo's Ciua's Weekend. Also the Price of Eggs and Elaspink
Speaker 2: Culture War. Some highlights and low lights from the Leader's
Speaker 2: Debate you probably didn't watch. George Clooney says he's never
Speaker 2: found a reason to have an argument with his gorgeous,
Speaker 2: genius wife, and we would like to pick a fight
Speaker 2: with him about it and the tragic a virginiay free
Speaker 2: and whether there are any lessons to be learned. But first, hey, everyone.
Speaker 5: I'm Jared and one of the directors of Kangala Wildlife Rescue.
Speaker 6: Hi, I'm Lisa.
Speaker 7: I'm also one of the directors here at Kangala Wildlife Rescue.
Speaker 5: Were so excited yesterday to be able to release the
Speaker 5: information that Valerie has been secured. She's safe and sound
Speaker 5: after what was a roller coaster ride. It was a
Speaker 5: long tough battle, it was, wasn't.
Speaker 2: It, Guys.
Speaker 1: I just want to actually take the show over and
Speaker 1: just talk about this topic today because Valerie the feral
Speaker 1: sausage dog has been captured alive on Kangaroo Island after
Speaker 1: running wild for five hundred and twenty nine days.
Speaker 3: Should I'm missing in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1: Now, there's a lot of nouns in that headline, so
Speaker 1: I'm going to unpack it for you in case you
Speaker 1: haven't been following Valerie's story. The voices you just heard
Speaker 1: were the two people who run Kangala Rescue. They're a
Speaker 1: nonprofit animal rescue organization who have been involved with this rescue.
Speaker 1: What happened is that back in November twenty three, as
Speaker 1: you say, Jesse, Valerie, who weighs less than four kilos,
Speaker 1: she's a miniature ducks on, so there's like an inch
Speaker 1: clearance between her little tummy and the ground. Such little
Speaker 1: legs couldn't go up steps, I would say. Anyway, she
Speaker 1: went to Kangaroo Island with her owners for a camping trip.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't think of taking my dog on a camping trip.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we take our dog campaign for you.
Speaker 1: Actually, Okay, she escaped her pen. She got a bit
Speaker 1: spooked and she ran into the bush and they searched
Speaker 1: for five days. She was very much a lapdog. Her
Speaker 1: owners are called Josh and Georgia. She'd never been away
Speaker 1: from Georgia. She was just teeny tiny and after five
Speaker 1: days they had to go home. They went back to
Speaker 1: the mainland and kind of grieved their little.
Speaker 4: Really, they were like, maybe Valerie got bitten by a snake.
Speaker 3: Yeah, things could have happened.
Speaker 1: They were like, Valerie is not a rough and tumble
Speaker 1: dog who's going to survive. Well, she's not working dog.
Speaker 1: She's a little privileged dog. Nearly a year later, Valerie
Speaker 1: was sighted a little sausage dog with a pink collar,
Speaker 1: fourteen kilometers away from where she went missing. That's when
Speaker 1: Kangala Rescue got involved and the search for Valerie involved
Speaker 1: over one thousand volunteer hours and more than five thousand
Speaker 1: kilometers traveled by volunteers in private vehicles. There was deployment
Speaker 1: and monitoring of cameras and traps and uses of all
Speaker 1: kinds of technology to successfully trap her. What they ended
Speaker 1: up doing it was amazing. They built this kind of
Speaker 1: large pen. They got valerie z owners to send them.
Speaker 2: T shirts of George's that had her.
Speaker 1: Smell, and Valerie's toys and her favorite foods, and they
Speaker 1: put it in and every few days she'd come and
Speaker 1: she'd hang out there, and they had all cameras, but
Speaker 1: they couldn't work out how to automatically close the door,
Speaker 1: and then she'd leave, and sometimes she wouldn't come back
Speaker 1: for a while, and they were watching her for months.
Speaker 1: They would watch this happen, and they knew that they
Speaker 1: didn't want to startle her. They had to be careful.
Speaker 2: They had to also.
Speaker 1: Not accidentally capture other wildlife. So eventually, on the weekend
Speaker 1: they closed the door, they got Valerie, and I swear
Speaker 1: I followed every step of this. I want a live
Speaker 1: stream of the reunion when Valerie is integrated back with
Speaker 1: her owners. What they said, which is interesting, is that
Speaker 1: when a dog is lost. After about half an hour.
Speaker 1: An hour when it works out that it's lost and
Speaker 1: that it's not temporary, it flicks from domestic animal to
Speaker 1: survival mode and it's like a whole other level that
Speaker 1: it goes to. She's been in survival mode for all
Speaker 1: of this time, and they think that she survived on
Speaker 1: damn water and a diet of roadkill and native animals,
Speaker 1: lots of resources apparently, but she evaded eagles and snakes
Speaker 1: and all the elements. It's a great Australian story.
Speaker 2: I can't underestimate a dash und. I had a friend
Speaker 2: who has managed a dashund and one day that dashund
Speaker 2: took out all that pat chickens, all of them.
Speaker 1: Are you kidding?
Speaker 2: I am not kicking such a little man. You imagine
Speaker 2: the scene they walked into when they came back, and
Speaker 2: just a very guilty and feathery dash und. They can
Speaker 2: be really tough little buggers. And I wonder think about
Speaker 2: all the stories Valerie has from her Oh, if she
Speaker 2: could speak nearly two years on the lamb, she is
Speaker 2: probably she's gonna go home. She's turning her nose up
Speaker 2: at the fancy of my dog food. She really is.
Speaker 4: See how rescue chili we think is part sausage. She
Speaker 4: barely survives the park, she.
Speaker 3: Has no instincts. She gets spooked by a pigeon.
Speaker 1: But you don't know that that's only because of the
Speaker 1: lifestyle that she's grown accustomed to. You you don't know
Speaker 1: how long she was on the street.
Speaker 4: For If I was taken bet so, I would not
Speaker 4: think that she was gonna it's for me as well.
Speaker 4: This story is about the fact.
Speaker 3: Her name is Valerie.
Speaker 4: I think that's something we need to acknowledge because it's
Speaker 4: and it's not val It's Valerie.
Speaker 3: Doesn't sound like she's gonna make it.
Speaker 1: And yet Valerie for the win.
Speaker 2: As someone who's lost a dog, this is one of
Speaker 2: those stories of hope that will be pasted around those
Speaker 2: lost dog Facebook groups. Four years.
Speaker 4: All I've thought about this weekend other than Valerie is
Speaker 4: Jojo sewa her former partner kath Ebbs, and the moral
Speaker 4: quandary of what to do when you fall for someone else.
Speaker 1: Allow me to explain, this is a huge story.
Speaker 3: It's a huge story Jojo Siwah.
Speaker 1: But some people will know nothing about it, not even
Speaker 1: Jojo sewats.
Speaker 4: I'm so sorry for them. And that's why we're here.
Speaker 4: Jojo Sewah of Dance Mum's fame. She appeared on the
Speaker 4: reality TV show for the first time at the age
Speaker 4: of twelve, announced about eighteen months ago that she identified
Speaker 4: as a lesbian. Right.
Speaker 3: And then in November last.
Speaker 4: Year, Jojo was in Australia for the TikTok Awards and
Speaker 4: she met our very own Kath Ebbs.
Speaker 1: I hadn't heard of kaf but just back on Jojo
Speaker 1: for a second. I didn't watch Dance Mums, but I
Speaker 1: seem to know her from her bows or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there'll be a certain cohort of parents who
Speaker 2: remember being nagged for JoJo's bows. I am one of them.
Speaker 2: So she became this huge icon of having these big
Speaker 2: hair bows and you could buy them online and they
Speaker 2: spawned many imitators. If you didn't couldn't get hands on
Speaker 2: JoJo's bows, you could get a fake Jojo. She would
Speaker 2: have made a pretty penny from those boats.
Speaker 1: She did.
Speaker 4: And then she's also had this like rising music career. Recently,
Speaker 4: she had a song named Karma That's gone. She's big
Speaker 4: on TikTok right anyway, goes to the TikTok Awards, meets Kath.
Speaker 4: Kath is an actor, presenter, podcast content creator, and the
Speaker 4: pair quickly fell in love. Fast forward to Celebrity Big
Speaker 4: Brother UK, where Jojo enters as a contestant, and there
Speaker 4: she meets Chris Hughes. He is a former contestant of
Speaker 4: Love Ireland. I don't know Chris. You don't know Chris.
Speaker 2: No one kesna.
Speaker 1: The coverage I'd read about Jojo and Celebrity Big Brother
Speaker 1: is that Mickey Rourke was in the house. Mickey the
Speaker 1: famous eighties celebrity nine and a half weeks with Kimbassenger
Speaker 1: jen X's will remember is now very strange, and he
Speaker 1: ended up getting kicked out because he said some awfully
Speaker 1: homophobic things to her, and Big Brother made him be okay.
Speaker 4: So Jojo and Chris start spending a lot of time together.
Speaker 4: He tickles her back, They do some whispering, they do
Speaker 4: some holding of the hands, They sleep in bed together.
Speaker 3: They cuddle.
Speaker 1: Was there any dancing doner I.
Speaker 4: Don't think so from what I've seen from the clips
Speaker 4: I've seen, but if that was my partner, it would be.
Speaker 4: At one point, she says to him, give me forty
Speaker 4: eight hours, and a few people thought that meant when
Speaker 4: we get out, let's have a conversation.
Speaker 3: I'll chat to my partner, Da da da.
Speaker 4: Now commentary blows up because viewers are thinking, hang on,
Speaker 4: how must Kath feel about all of this?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 4: Last week was a finale and Kath flew from Australia
Speaker 4: to London to be there for Jojo. And here's what
Speaker 4: Kath said in a recently uploaded and then deleted video
Speaker 4: to TikTok.
Speaker 8: I flew here and I went to the live show
Speaker 8: to show up for my partner and support them in
Speaker 8: their experience and and then obviously later on address my
Speaker 8: feelings of like hurt and they like work through them,
Speaker 8: like core relationships too. But before I could even get
Speaker 8: back to the hotel, I it's actually crazy, went to
Speaker 8: the after party with with my I guess now ex
Speaker 8: crazy thing to say and was dumped in the party.
Speaker 8: I was told that there are confused feelings there. Do
Speaker 8: with that what you will, and that they had realized
Speaker 8: in the house that I wasn't the person that they wanted.
Speaker 1: Brutial.
Speaker 2: What a mess.
Speaker 4: So Cath has said that Jojo actually proposed before she
Speaker 4: went into the house that they were very, very serious
Speaker 4: and they're totally blind sided by what's happened, and two
Speaker 4: camps have since emerged. One group says JoJo's behavior totally unacceptable.
Speaker 4: She has this history of short relationships. She has humiliated Cath.
Speaker 4: It's impulsive and it's mean and a total disregard for
Speaker 4: someone who actually loves her. The other camp says she
Speaker 4: is still only twenty one years old. She's figuring out
Speaker 4: her sexual orientation. She has worked tirelessly since she was
Speaker 4: a child. She barely knows who she is, and technically
Speaker 4: shouldn't she. There was no kissing, there was no fun
Speaker 4: blank that we know of. She waited until she had
Speaker 4: the opportunity to break up with her partner. She did
Speaker 4: the right thing and now she's free to do what
Speaker 4: she likes. May I help me work out what I
Speaker 4: think about JoJo's Big Brother UK scandal because I can't.
Speaker 4: The ethics, the dilemma of it all is keeping me
Speaker 4: up at night.
Speaker 1: I actually don't think anything about it. It's just an
Speaker 1: interesting story because there's nothing really to think. What we
Speaker 1: think doesn't matter, and I know that you can probably
Speaker 1: say that about anything we talk about.
Speaker 2: The show.
Speaker 3: We just talk about Valorie.
Speaker 1: Actually three hours that was important. What I thought was
Speaker 1: interesting that aspect of this that I found most interesting
Speaker 1: was what Cas said about I thought that it was
Speaker 1: just a fake reality TV show and it wasn't everything
Speaker 1: that people saw with all of the flirting that went
Speaker 1: on between Jojo and Chris was real. And the other
Speaker 1: thing that I thought was interesting was that in the
Speaker 1: house Jojo announced I'm actually not a lesbian. I've realized
Speaker 1: that I'm queer and I'm not the ln LGTVQI anymore.
Speaker 1: I'm the Q And isn't that great? And that's what's
Speaker 1: a great thing about sexuality is that it's fluid. So
Speaker 1: I found that was an interesting point because obviously, when
Speaker 1: she initially came out as being gay, that was a
Speaker 1: big deal because Dance Mum's the audience for Dance Mums
Speaker 1: and the whole cast in Dance Moms, that's a pretty
Speaker 1: conservative world. And being a child star in that world
Speaker 1: and also being a child and then growing up with
Speaker 1: all the bows and stuff, and she did perform a
Speaker 1: very sort of stereotypical femininity, you know, when she was
Speaker 1: on the show and afterwards, and so that was a
Speaker 1: huge deal. And now she's like, oh, well, maybe that's
Speaker 1: not what I am. Maybe I'm actually queer, and the
Speaker 1: implication being is that she had feelings for a man,
Speaker 1: and I like that. You know, sexuality can be fluid.
Speaker 2: You don't know.
Speaker 1: You don't have to label yourself and put that in
Speaker 1: a box and lock that box away.
Speaker 3: Holly, do you think that what Jojo did was wrong?
Speaker 3: Or did she do the right thing?
Speaker 1: She didn't do anything.
Speaker 2: It wasn't wrong. But I do have a lot of
Speaker 2: empathy for cath because watching your partner flirt with someone
Speaker 2: else is heart right. And I'm sure many of us
Speaker 2: can think of times where we might have over a
Speaker 2: course of our lives. We might have been at a party,
Speaker 2: we might have been at a work thing and we're like,
Speaker 2: you looked very cozy with so and so, and our
Speaker 2: partner would say, oh no, we're just there's nothing. And
Speaker 2: this isn't the first time that someone has fallen in
Speaker 2: love and inverted comments. We don't know that that's what's
Speaker 2: happened here, but had head turned on big brother. It's
Speaker 2: a very intense situation. You're all living together twenty four
Speaker 2: to seven. I can imagine how tempting it would be
Speaker 2: to want to find someone who would tickle your back,
Speaker 2: if you know what I mean. But she obviously had
Speaker 2: as sured caf and I'm sure that she absolutely believed it.
Speaker 2: This is all fakery, it will all be silliness. Don't worry.
Speaker 2: Our love is strong. I love is fine. She didn't
Speaker 2: know that she was going to fall for what's his
Speaker 2: face in there. But I think my empathy does really
Speaker 2: go to Kath because I can just imagine watching that
Speaker 2: and You're there going like, you go, girl, I hope
Speaker 2: you're having a great time, and they were like, oh,
Speaker 2: now they're rubbing each other's hands, and now they're putting
Speaker 2: their head on his shoulder, and now they're It would
Speaker 2: be very hard to watch.
Speaker 4: It's one thing to watch someone you love flirt with
Speaker 4: someone else, and it is another to watch someone you
Speaker 4: love fall for someone else.
Speaker 3: And I have watched that. I have been.
Speaker 4: I remember being and this is school time or early
Speaker 4: twenties or something about this period where you watch people
Speaker 4: that you're in a relationship with, and I would see
Speaker 4: them meet someone and I'd go, oh my god, oh
Speaker 4: my god, they're actually falling for each other, like right
Speaker 4: in front of me.
Speaker 2: But we're not right for each other.
Speaker 3: You too a right for you to a right for
Speaker 3: each other.
Speaker 4: But I think I'm right for you, but I think
Speaker 4: you've just found someone better. Like it's the most terrific,
Speaker 4: confronting experience. But I did think Jojo is me when
Speaker 4: I went to UNI. And that's why I find this
Speaker 4: story interesting is because it's about celebrity big brother. And
Speaker 4: it's not about celebrity big brother. It's about the intensity
Speaker 4: of some environments. So whether it's work, or whether it's
Speaker 4: a holiday, or whether it's a conference or whatever, where
Speaker 4: you get adults in a closed environment, whether or not
Speaker 4: they're in relationships. I went to UNI and I was
Speaker 4: in a long term relationship and I was thrust into
Speaker 4: this new world and I just went, I have outgrown
Speaker 4: my old self. That's how it felt, and I ended
Speaker 4: that relationship because that's what you're to do. But some
Speaker 4: of this commentary, which I agree with, is that emotional
Speaker 4: cheating is more painful than physical cheating. Would it have
Speaker 4: been less painful if Jojo just went kissed whatever and
Speaker 4: they weren't feelings. But what would be so sickening to
Speaker 4: watch is like this connection developed.
Speaker 1: Cath kept saying how humiliated they felt. So there's that
Speaker 1: whole extra element to it.
Speaker 2: And that's not nothing, right because when this has happened
Speaker 2: before on reality TV, when you're the one who's going
Speaker 2: in there and you want your back tickled, you're thinking
Speaker 2: about your you know, your feelings, obviously, but you should
Speaker 2: also remember that your partner is watching this like.
Speaker 3: That is a lot and that's the thing.
Speaker 4: The rest of us got to do this privately and
Speaker 4: clumsily at twenty one in a club or at a
Speaker 4: campus or whatever, and Jojo, by the nature of her
Speaker 4: bizarre life, just did this on international television and it's
Speaker 4: a completely different thing, and it would compound the pain
Speaker 4: that Cath feels.
Speaker 1: But what happens next, I think CAF is going to
Speaker 1: be very popular. I think there are going to be
Speaker 1: a lot of people sliding into their dms, I think
Speaker 1: to help mend their broken heart. I think Jojo might
Speaker 1: have over yes cooked this a little because Chris, who's
Speaker 1: eleven years older than her, he's thirty two. He's given
Speaker 1: quite a few interviews while he's like, yeah, I love
Speaker 1: her as a friend and I just it was an
Speaker 1: amazing time in the house. He's also done more reality
Speaker 1: TV than her, so I think he's more understanding of
Speaker 1: the transient nature.
Speaker 2: There could be legs in them as a couple for
Speaker 2: a while, though, in terms of publicity wise, now that
Speaker 2: Kath has told everyone what happened, or at least their
Speaker 2: understanding of what happened, Jojo in a way has been
Speaker 2: given permission that if she and Chris wanted to tell
Speaker 2: their side of the story, they could also do that.
Speaker 4: Right, I reckon that Jojo did the right thing, regardless
Speaker 4: of whether Chris wants her or not. I think I've
Speaker 4: had that where I've liked someone else who definitely didn't
Speaker 4: like me back, but that was enough to indicate to
Speaker 4: me that what I was in wasn't right. However, I
Speaker 4: would not be surprised if in the next six months
Speaker 4: Jojo regrets it and she goes, oh, actually, I got
Speaker 4: totally distracted over here and I really missed this, and
Speaker 4: she kind of goes back on it.
Speaker 1: Imagine if every dumb relationship you had in your early
Speaker 1: twenties became an Internet story and part of the news
Speaker 1: cycle or part of the TikTok cycle for weeks.
Speaker 4: It would be very Sending so much love to Cath,
Speaker 4: I just hope that you get so many hotties love
Speaker 4: to cutting into those dms.
Speaker 1: I think they're great.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: On Friday, forty one year old Virginia Jeffrey died by suicide.
Speaker 4: Geffrey was publicly known as accusing Jeffrey Epstein, and Prince
Speaker 4: Andrew of sexual abuse. She pursued criminal and civil actions
Speaker 4: against Epstein and Galaine Maxwell. After suing Maxwell for defamation,
Speaker 4: she received a settlement in twenty seventeen. Then she sued
Speaker 4: Prince Andrew in civil court, which was settled in twenty
Speaker 4: twenty two. Prince Andrew paid her an undisclosed amount, a
Speaker 4: significant portion of which went her charity. Just weeks ago,
Speaker 4: Jeffrey posted from a hospital bed in Perth describing how
Speaker 4: she'd been involved in a bus crash and had four
Speaker 4: days to live. A representative later said that post was
Speaker 4: a mistake, intended to be shared to a private page,
Speaker 4: and six days later Jeffrey was discharged from hospital. Then
Speaker 4: came the news on Friday. This is such a tragic
Speaker 4: ending to a tragic story. Can anything be learned from it?
Speaker 2: There are advocates in the sexual abuse space who say
Speaker 2: one of the things that we learned from it is
Speaker 2: what a lifelong struggle it is to live with the
Speaker 2: after effects of sexual abuse and the trauma associated with it.
Speaker 2: I think one of the dangerous things about discussing this
Speaker 2: story in that way, though, is that we never want
Speaker 2: to be simplistic or make assumptions about why anyone would
Speaker 2: end their life, right all the statistics and data that
Speaker 2: we know, so that it's not a simple line. And
Speaker 2: it was uncomfortable when we saw a lot of Virginia's face,
Speaker 2: that image of her in the hospital bed all over
Speaker 2: the media a few weeks ago. When you read those stories,
Speaker 2: it was clear that she was very unwell and that
Speaker 2: something very sad was happening, and it kind of felt
Speaker 2: voyeuristic to be looking at that. One of the things
Speaker 2: that is interesting about this particular case, though, because it
Speaker 2: is so high profile, is some people are talking about
Speaker 2: what it means for how we view her allegations and
Speaker 2: how we view Prince Andrew's position denials of that right
Speaker 2: because you know, there's sort of a little bit of
Speaker 2: ghoulish commentary that has suggested that she was clearly so unwell,
Speaker 2: bringing up issues of trust. And then there are others
Speaker 2: also quite gaulish commentary in a way that's saying, well,
Speaker 2: this maybe draws a line and allows Prince Andrew a
Speaker 2: way back to respectability somehow. Both of those things I
Speaker 2: think are probably overstated. I think that Prince Andrew's reputation
Speaker 2: is beyond repair. I would suggest he was at the
Speaker 2: Royal Family's Easter Sunday service, and he is, I mean,
Speaker 2: he still exists. He's still out in the world, of course,
Speaker 2: and some people are suggesting that this could be an
Speaker 2: opportunity for him to make a statement and express his
Speaker 2: sorrow and sadness. But I'm sure that that's actually the
Speaker 2: last thing that Virginia Giffra's family would want is for
Speaker 2: him to insert himself into this in any way. Certainly
Speaker 2: what they feel from the statements that they've made, their
Speaker 2: words were in the end, the toll of abuse is
Speaker 2: so heavy that it became unbearable for Virginia to handle
Speaker 2: its weight. And just the sorrow and sadness that they
Speaker 2: must feel unimaginable.
Speaker 1: It's so tragic. She had three kids, she was forty
Speaker 1: one and lived in Australia for a lot of the
Speaker 1: last decades of her life. What was notable in the
Speaker 1: last few weeks, when I think everybody felt unsettled seeing
Speaker 1: those photos and the coverage of it, and then the
Speaker 1: speculation about the accident that didn't really happen clearly, as
Speaker 1: you say, oh, she was unwell, but there was a sense,
Speaker 1: and there were some horrible things said on social media
Speaker 1: by some of Andrew's supporters that he was going to
Speaker 1: be vindicated, and that him saying that he I mean,
Speaker 1: he can't deny that he knew and was friendly with
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein and troubled with him and stayed in his house,
Speaker 1: but he denied the specificity of the case against him
Speaker 1: with Virginia Jeffrey's accusations. Now that was settled out of court,
Speaker 1: and as part of that settlement, in which she's rumored
Speaker 1: to have received a financial payout that was significant, she
Speaker 1: wasn't allowed to speak about it anymore, which is both
Speaker 1: good and bad in terms of she was gagged essentially
Speaker 1: in exchange for that money. It's a pretty common thing
Speaker 1: and you've got to make some really tough decisions. But
Speaker 1: now it's interesting the idea of it being a line
Speaker 1: under this case for him, in that you can now
Speaker 1: say all kinds of things about her because you can't
Speaker 1: defame that dead. But I think it bars any redemption
Speaker 1: arc for him because there was a sense that and
Speaker 1: everyone said this was very naive, that he could go
Speaker 1: away and just maybe do charity work and quietly reappear.
Speaker 2: But he's been.
Speaker 1: Involved in other scandals. There was another Chinese by scandal.
Speaker 1: He hasn't showered himself in glory since this happened. He
Speaker 1: will never be able to acquit himself of these charges
Speaker 1: and of this speculation because she's not around.
Speaker 2: I was thinking about that when we were researching this today,
Speaker 2: and the fact that his disappearance, as it were, is right.
Speaker 2: But then there's another bit of me that's like he's
Speaker 2: sort of being paid by his brother really to just
Speaker 2: live a nice life and shut up. You know, it's
Speaker 2: not actually a very admirable way to live if he
Speaker 2: did really feel Because the thing is what we have
Speaker 2: to remember, he's always absolutely denied his involvement, and that's
Speaker 2: his absolute prerogative. But for Virginia Giffrey, she did not
Speaker 2: only allege that she was abused by him. She says
Speaker 2: she was passed around by EPs in circle. The fact
Speaker 2: that she suffered abuse at the hands of rich and
Speaker 2: powerful men is not under question. Actually, what was never
Speaker 2: proven is whether or not Prince Andrew it was one
Speaker 2: of those people, and so there's a bit of me
Speaker 2: that's like, it's right that he should be disappeared, as
Speaker 2: it were, by the royal family, but it's also like
Speaker 2: it's just a very ignoble weak end to a.
Speaker 1: Justice.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it teaches us something to about their compassion.
Speaker 4: We owed her a few weeks ago, and there wasn't
Speaker 4: a lot of compassion in the commentary because how we
Speaker 4: see mental health is still something I don't think a
Speaker 4: lot of us know how to talk about properly, and
Speaker 4: I think that we're still developing a language and framework
Speaker 4: by which to understand trauma and the brain and what
Speaker 4: it does to a life. And as you say, Holly,
Speaker 4: that's not to say that one cannot flourish, and there
Speaker 4: is in hope, There absolutely is, But it's also worth
Speaker 4: acknowledging that child sex abuse comes with a mortality rate.
Speaker 4: If you were to be diagnosed with something and they said,
Speaker 4: you know this is going to impact your life expectancy,
Speaker 4: then we understand that are something more straightforward. But for
Speaker 4: this and then the complication of the life lived in
Speaker 4: between is just something that we're still getting our head around.
Speaker 4: And I think of those images of her and how
Speaker 4: the media didn't know what to do with it. We
Speaker 4: now see it through the prism of that was a
Speaker 4: woman in an enormous amount of pain, regardless of how
Speaker 4: she was talking about it. It just makes it even more.
Speaker 2: Tragic in a moment, the new gotcha question for our
Speaker 2: political leaders that's almost impossible to answer. There are five
Speaker 2: sleeps now until this mercifully dull federal election campaign comes
Speaker 2: to a close. People are roundly saying it's been one
Speaker 2: of the most boring elections ever, And to that I say,
Speaker 2: thank god. Yeah, We've all seen what happens in exciting
Speaker 2: elections in other parts of the world. I've already voted,
Speaker 2: so a lot of Australians have already voted, and many
Speaker 2: many more will have already voted before election day. No
Speaker 2: one hangs around for the democracy sausage anymore. But if
Speaker 2: you voted before last night's fourth leader's debate, you missed
Speaker 2: two enormous things. One, no one knows the price of eggs.
Speaker 2: It used to be that to prove how out of
Speaker 2: touch a politician was, you asked them about milk. How
Speaker 2: much is a pine of milk? We used to say,
Speaker 2: Now it's eggs. But It's a very hard question to answer,
Speaker 2: even for the keen bean assistants who have to like
Speaker 2: prep the ministers with this, because what are we talking about?
Speaker 2: Are we talking about cage eggs, free range eggs, organic eggs,
Speaker 2: regular or large? Are we talking about grain fed eggs,
Speaker 2: barn laid vegetarian eggs, hormone free eggs? What about omega enrichment?
Speaker 2: This is a very hard question.
Speaker 3: Are we talking about aldi or house farm exactly?
Speaker 1: Are we talking about Cadbury cream eggs? I know how
Speaker 1: much they cost. I can't believe how much. Tell me
Speaker 1: how much actual eggs cost.
Speaker 2: So they average out given all the things we just
Speaker 2: talked about, they're somewhere around six to seven to eight dollars.
Speaker 2: It depends right.
Speaker 1: How much do you think it Cantree cream egg costs?
Speaker 2: You tell me, maya between two dollars.
Speaker 1: Fifty and three dollars thirty. But if you want the
Speaker 1: ice cream, you can get a four pack for twelve dollars.
Speaker 2: Somebody put this woman on the leader's to beate. She'd
Speaker 2: nail it. Don't guess four, which isn't true for any
Speaker 2: of these levels of eggs. And Albo had a couple
Speaker 2: of goes, which reveal he's probably a free range kind
Speaker 2: of guy.
Speaker 4: Can I just offer a defense for not knowing the
Speaker 4: prices of most things? I think that since we no
Speaker 4: longer use cash and we are tapping willy nilly, I
Speaker 4: think we have lost a bit of a sense of
Speaker 4: how much things cost, and because of like click and collect.
Speaker 4: And also I go into my local usually Audi chuck
Speaker 4: fifteen things in and it's five hundred dollars, and I go,
Speaker 4: that's a lot. I don't know if my eggs were
Speaker 4: eighty five dollars or if that was just the milk.
Speaker 4: And so I know that there are some families, in fact,
Speaker 4: a significant portion of families who are budgeting every week
Speaker 4: and who might know more.
Speaker 3: But I do think it's difficult.
Speaker 2: Hi, and I accept your defense accepted. However, given the
Speaker 2: price of eggs is currently like a global story, like
Speaker 2: Trump's always being asked about the price of eggs too,
Speaker 2: I feel like you might have a few numbers in
Speaker 2: your pocket, which I think the chaps did. And as
Speaker 2: like Mia and her cream eggs, they were heading their
Speaker 2: beds anyway, onto more important matters. One of the big
Speaker 2: criticisms of this election is that there's not actually a
Speaker 2: lot of difference between the major parties. They keep agreeing
Speaker 2: to match each other's promises, match each other spends, But
Speaker 2: this last week a culture gap is being wedged open
Speaker 2: when it comes to acknowledgment of country addresses a public events.
Speaker 2: At the debate, both leaders condemned the people who heckled
Speaker 2: and booed Uncle Mark Brown when he delivered the Welcome
Speaker 2: to Country at Melbourne's Shrine of Remembrance on Friday morning.
Speaker 2: Those people were arrested. They were believed to be part
Speaker 2: of far right neo Nazi groups, and both Stutton and
Speaker 2: Albanesi said that level of disrespect absolutely no place, especially
Speaker 2: on Amazac Day, but no place in our culture in general.
Speaker 2: But the sentiment itself that there is a growing group
Speaker 2: of Australians who would like to see the back of
Speaker 2: welcome to Country and acknowledgment of country addresses at public
Speaker 2: gatherings is one that has been seized on by Clive
Speaker 2: Palmer's campaign and to a lesser extent by the Liberals.
Speaker 2: This is what both leaders had to say about it
Speaker 2: at last night's debate.
Speaker 9: I think there is and people have said this to
Speaker 9: me as we've moved across the country. There is a
Speaker 9: sense across the community that it's overdone. For the opening
Speaker 9: of Parliament fair enough, it's respectful to do. But for
Speaker 9: the start of every meeting at work or the start
Speaker 9: of a football game. I think a lot of Australians
Speaker 9: think it's overdone and it cheapens the significance of what
Speaker 9: it was meant to do. It divides the country. Not
Speaker 9: this similar to Prime Minister, Yes.
Speaker 2: Of the Prime Minister.
Speaker 9: Prime Minister, you always have at your official events, have
Speaker 9: been a lot of them, smoking ceremonies, welcome to country,
Speaker 9: acknowledgement of traditional honors.
Speaker 6: Well, from my perspective, it's a matter of respect. But
Speaker 6: it's also of course up to the organizations that are
Speaker 6: hosting an event of whether they have a welcome to
Speaker 6: country or not. It's up to them, and people will
Speaker 6: have different views and people are in toitle their views.
Speaker 6: But we have a great privilege from my perspective, of
Speaker 6: sharing this continent with the oldest continuous culture on earth,
Speaker 6: and when I welcome international visitors to Parliament House, you
Speaker 6: know what they want to see that culture.
Speaker 2: What do we think about this debate in inverted commas
Speaker 2: being brought up at this late stage of the election campaign.
Speaker 4: I think that Dutton has some data about what Australians think.
Speaker 4: News dot com and say what you like about that
Speaker 4: particular audience. But they did a poll just over the
Speaker 4: weekend and they polled fifty thousand Australians and sixty five
Speaker 4: percent said they think welcome to country ceremonies should stop
Speaker 4: completely right, And I know it's not a very official
Speaker 4: poll and it's people on the internet who are anonymous.
Speaker 4: Doesn't necessarily stand up, but I have sat at dinner tables,
Speaker 4: especially across from people who work in the corporate sector,
Speaker 4: who have said that they think that the acknowledgment of country,
Speaker 4: which we should say, is very different to a welcome
Speaker 4: to country. So a welcome to country is done by
Speaker 4: an indigenous person, it is an official ceremony, there's official wording.
Speaker 4: An acknowledgment of country is done by a white person
Speaker 4: or someone who is not Indigenous, who's acknowledging the land
Speaker 4: that they are currently on. And they've said that they've
Speaker 4: sat in meetings and an acknowledgment of country has started
Speaker 4: the meeting and then there might be twenty people on
Speaker 4: the call from all over Australia and they go round
Speaker 4: and all of them have to acknowledge, and they've said
Speaker 4: that they think that's overkill the time and the performance
Speaker 4: of it all. They think it's necessary at a football game,
Speaker 4: at a conference, but when it's in the individualized, even
Speaker 4: one on one meetings, they think there's something a little
Speaker 4: bit performative about it.
Speaker 3: Right. But on the other hand, I've.
Speaker 4: Been watching this debate on fell over the weekend and
Speaker 4: I keep thinking of Thomas Mayo and Megan Davis and
Speaker 4: the dozens of Indigenous activists who worked tirelessly on the
Speaker 4: Voice to Parliament, and when that came back as a no,
Speaker 4: I think it emboldened those who want absolutely no recognition
Speaker 4: and who want to pretend that this country wasn't colonized.
Speaker 4: And remember the Liberal Party basically said at the time,
Speaker 4: we don't support the Voice, but we're open to some
Speaker 4: other form of recognition to that. I keep wondering, where
Speaker 4: is it?
Speaker 3: Where is it?
Speaker 4: This is where we are, This is where we are,
Speaker 4: a week out from an election where there are massive
Speaker 4: issues to discuss, and we are talking about whether a
Speaker 4: one minute acknowledgment of our history is worth it or not.
Speaker 4: And remember too, the reason that acknowledgment of country and
Speaker 4: welcome to Country exists is because there is no official
Speaker 4: Indigenous recognition in our constitution and because for most of
Speaker 4: our history we have literally erased indigenous existence. That's why
Speaker 4: it happens at Anzac Day, because there were Indigenous diggers
Speaker 4: who were written out of history until five minutes ago.
Speaker 1: I thought it was really interesting and kind of surprising,
Speaker 1: but also not that Dutton brought this up, or that
Speaker 1: this came up in the debate, because it's been refreshingly
Speaker 1: free of what's referred to often as culture wars issues
Speaker 1: in this election, which is perhaps why we haven't heard
Speaker 1: so much about it, because, as you say, it hasn't
Speaker 1: been about the stuff that gets people riled up online
Speaker 1: and so it hasn't really made the news cycle the
Speaker 1: various policies. But as it gets down to the home straight,
Speaker 1: I think that Dutton, who has really been challenged in
Speaker 1: terms of being able to say, well either of them
Speaker 1: what they stand for. Dutton has not had the cut
Speaker 1: through that perhaps he hoped he would, and I think
Speaker 1: he's trying to grasp on to any issue that's in
Speaker 1: the new cycle, and it was in the new cycle
Speaker 1: because of what happened with Anzac Day. It's such a
Speaker 1: good point also that Elbow made about it's not mandatory.
Speaker 1: There's no law that says you have to. Therefore we
Speaker 1: don't need a law that says you don't have to.
Speaker 1: Everybody gets to choose. And if it's taking up too
Speaker 1: long in your meeting and the people don't feel that
Speaker 1: it's something that they want to do, then talk about that.
Speaker 1: But I don't object to it at any of the
Speaker 1: events i'm at. I think it can be a really
Speaker 1: beautiful theme.
Speaker 2: I think it's worth acknowledging that across the country. On Friday,
Speaker 2: when those people were shouting at Uncle Mark Brown, hundreds
Speaker 2: and thousands of Australians were standing and respectfully, silently listening
Speaker 2: to a welcome to country before paying their respects at
Speaker 2: a dawn service. I don't think that this sort of
Speaker 2: shouty line about I don't need to be welcome to
Speaker 2: my country, which is what's in the Clive Palmarads, actually
Speaker 2: has that much traction. It is a willful misunderstanding misrepresentation
Speaker 2: of what a welcome to country is. You're actually being included,
Speaker 2: not excluded, by a welcome to country, So it's a
Speaker 2: willful misunderstanding and I would like to imagine that certainly
Speaker 2: for kids like mine who have grown up with acknowledgments
Speaker 2: and welcomes to country and you know, singing the national
Speaker 2: anthem in language and all these things, it doesn't feel
Speaker 2: strange or extreme or scary or any of the things
Speaker 2: that I think we're sort of being whipped up to consider.
Speaker 2: Maybe it does.
Speaker 4: I just want to talk about the impact for a minute,
Speaker 4: because what happened over the weekend too is that there
Speaker 4: was some sort of alleged misunderstanding. There was an NRL game,
Speaker 4: Melbourne Storm playing, and there was a welcome to country organized.
Speaker 4: Then the organizer said, oh, wait, we don't want to
Speaker 4: do one, and the Indigenous people who were there ready
Speaker 4: to do it kind of were shocked by that, and
Speaker 4: then they said, oh, there's an understanding. Actually we do
Speaker 4: want you to and they ended up talking to each
Speaker 4: other and going, no, we're not going to do it
Speaker 4: because we feel really uncomfortable. The ABAC went and spoke
Speaker 4: to some people who were at those ceremonies who are Indigenous,
Speaker 4: and one man said, I will never attend an Anzac
Speaker 4: Day service at the shrine again. And I think that
Speaker 4: that's the loss here is that it has taken so
Speaker 4: many years for a particular community to feel dignified, to
Speaker 4: feel included. The person who suffered in that was a
Speaker 4: person trying to give the welcome to country, and they
Speaker 4: were humiliated, and they are within their rights to go.
Speaker 4: I don't want to do that again. I don't want
Speaker 4: to be put in that position.
Speaker 1: After the break, shifting gears because we have some feedback
Speaker 1: for the famous couple who claim that they haven't had
Speaker 1: an argument in eleven years.
Speaker 2: One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
Speaker 2: and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link
Speaker 2: in the show notes to get us in your ears
Speaker 2: five days a week, and a huge thank you to
Speaker 2: all our current subscribers.
Speaker 1: George and Mark Clooney claim to have never argued in
Speaker 1: their eleven years of marriage, and some people are mad
Speaker 1: about it. He did an interview on CBS this morning
Speaker 1: with astronaut Gale King, and here's what he said.
Speaker 9: Anamal and I, you know, I remember we were here
Speaker 9: with you once before, and remember he said we'd never
Speaker 9: had an argument.
Speaker 1: We still have it.
Speaker 2: You still have it. No, we're trying to find something
Speaker 2: to fight about.
Speaker 6: But we're I think because I started so late with
Speaker 6: them all.
Speaker 2: I remember when you said you never get married, you'd
Speaker 2: never have kids. Yes, now you're married and you have
Speaker 2: What happened?
Speaker 5: Yeah, what happened to me?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Maybe because she's one of the most successful human rights
Speaker 1: lawyers in the world, he just doesn't try. But there
Speaker 1: has been some predictable snark about this because it's the Internet,
Speaker 1: with Guardian columnist Rachel Connolly writing, these are some of
Speaker 1: the most beautiful people in the world. On top of this,
Speaker 1: they are extremely rich. They can have houses and holidays
Speaker 1: wherever they want, They can buy whatever clothes and dinners
Speaker 1: they choose. What would you have to argue about if
Speaker 1: you lived such a gilded existence? And she goes on
Speaker 1: to say that arguments are part of life and that
Speaker 1: of course they don't argue because they've got nothing to
Speaker 1: argue about. She says, most of us, with our lump
Speaker 1: and faces and bodies, our fragile bank balances, our bobbled
Speaker 1: polyester clothing and our strained sleep schedules, argue with our
Speaker 1: partners with some degree of regularity. Jesse, do you and
Speaker 1: look I argue with each other about being unattractive and
Speaker 1: wearing cheap clothes.
Speaker 4: Then I resent that because I saw that headline and
Speaker 4: I just went, we're not fight about being ugly. Ugly
Speaker 4: people don't look at each other and be like your
Speaker 4: face like we don't.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Brent and I argue about being ugly. Literally,
Speaker 2: we had a fight on the weekend when I was like,
Speaker 2: I refuse to go to this thing with you if
Speaker 2: you don't look better than this, like I literally did.
Speaker 1: We had a fight.
Speaker 2: I was like, put some shoes on, yeah, took your
Speaker 2: shirt in, but wouldn't killing you to have a shave?
Speaker 3: I do not.
Speaker 2: I both think IMML and George are having this shots fired.
Speaker 3: To the idea that rich people don't have problems. Now,
Speaker 3: I think they absolutely have a couple.
Speaker 1: Of things about them at the moment. They're not living
Speaker 1: in the same city because he's on Broadway. That's why
Speaker 1: he's dyed his hair. He also did say that Amal
Speaker 1: hates it he's got black hair, a mother doesn't like
Speaker 1: the hair. Sounds a bit like a fight to me,
Speaker 1: But I think there is truth to the fact that
Speaker 1: a lot of the friction that can lead to fights,
Speaker 1: and they say that every couple has the same argument
Speaker 1: for the duration of their relationship. They just have it
Speaker 1: in different ways. You can certainly smooth out some of
Speaker 1: that friction with cleaners, with nannies, with drivers, with not
Speaker 1: having to you know, money is a big thing that
Speaker 1: couples fight about.
Speaker 2: Yes, this is logistics. It removes the logistic conversation.
Speaker 4: But what I would like to unpack a little bit
Speaker 4: is the definition of a fight. Because Lucra and I
Speaker 4: have always said Lucra and I don't fight. We have
Speaker 4: never raised our voices. We have never sorry, We've never
Speaker 4: raised each other. We don't raise voices.
Speaker 3: We don't.
Speaker 2: It's looking startled.
Speaker 3: We don't.
Speaker 1: Actually doesn't surprise me. I've heard neither of you raise
Speaker 1: your voices to anyone.
Speaker 4: No, and then even like you like whisper the.
Speaker 3: Stupid wearing that God, I hate you.
Speaker 4: We don't do the not talking to each other thing
Speaker 4: like I know that some couples like.
Speaker 3: It doesn't mean that we don't argue.
Speaker 1: We've just started that after all, where it is just
Speaker 1: weaponar silence. But the thing is that I just forget.
Speaker 1: I can't concentrate. I'm like, are we still not talking?
Speaker 3: I can't be What is a fight?
Speaker 2: What is a fight?
Speaker 3: What's a fight.
Speaker 2: It's a disagreement, right.
Speaker 4: Disagreements like you have disagreements about what you want for dinner,
Speaker 4: but like.
Speaker 1: Whether we should summer in the lake coast hard if
Speaker 1: there are other people that live in your house, it's harder.
Speaker 1: It's harder to have sex, and it's harder to have fights.
Speaker 1: They have there's always someone around.
Speaker 3: We have your twins.
Speaker 4: I'm sure their twins can be like rich people have
Speaker 4: annoying kids. Rich people have a leak in their roof, right.
Speaker 2: Well, yes, but they don't have to deal with it.
Speaker 2: Gurus would tell you that it's not something to aspire to.
Speaker 2: So the idea, like you know, it used to be.
Speaker 2: I remember when I was growing up, it was like
Speaker 2: there were some famous couples who've never spent a night apart,
Speaker 2: and that was seen as the absolute pinnacle of like
Speaker 2: you know, of togetherness is that they hate being a partner,
Speaker 2: never apart. And this is similar the headlines around the
Speaker 2: cloonies don't fight has been held up like if only
Speaker 2: we could all be like them. But I think gurus
Speaker 2: say you should fight, like you shouldn't fight. You shouldn't
Speaker 2: insult each other, criticize each other, relentlessly. You shouldn't go
Speaker 2: low and all those things, but you shouldn't tiptoe around
Speaker 2: pretending everything's hunky dory all the time, because ultimately one
Speaker 2: of your heads will fall.
Speaker 3: Yes, which is maybe of conflict.
Speaker 4: Maybe I consider that a discussion a discussion or an argument.
Speaker 4: And we will have all the time, We'll have things
Speaker 4: where we sit down and I go, especially since having
Speaker 4: a baby, where you go, I feel like I'm.
Speaker 3: Doing a little bit more.
Speaker 4: Neither of us escalated. And I've been in relationships before
Speaker 4: where I've been with an escalator or someone who isn't
Speaker 4: listening or whatever, and I have felt either I raise
Speaker 4: my voice or they raise their voice, and then I
Speaker 4: felt to get really messy. And maybe that's what I
Speaker 4: consider a files.
Speaker 2: And I also think that there's something so the Cloonies. Famously,
Speaker 2: George Clooney got married in his early fifties, I think right,
Speaker 2: and for many years there was like a marriage watch
Speaker 2: on Clooney. And he once made a bet, didn't He said,
Speaker 2: I'm never gonna get married, oh kid, never gonna have
Speaker 2: kids with Nicole Kidman. And obviously that was pre a
Speaker 2: mile universe. But also there's something to be said for
Speaker 2: the fact he probably knows himself pretty well by that point.
Speaker 2: She's a very smart woman. If they've had relationships before
Speaker 2: with as you described them, escalators, Jesse, and they don't
Speaker 2: like it. Because some couples love fighting, they like, I mean,
Speaker 2: not horrible fights, but they love the energy of it,
Speaker 2: the excitement of it. And if you like that, that's great.
Speaker 2: But if you hate that and you recoil from it,
Speaker 2: then that's one of the things you're not looking for.
Speaker 2: And when you're fifty four year old Clooney and you're
Speaker 2: picking your glorious human rights lawyer, you're probably going as
Speaker 2: she's going to be yelling at me about the fact
Speaker 2: my toenails are ugly enough have to put shoes.
Speaker 1: On, you know. I think that if there's good communication,
Speaker 1: that is what you're talking about. If you've got someone
Speaker 1: who is a bad communicator or who won't communicate with you,
Speaker 1: that's really hard. That's where conflict lives. But if you
Speaker 1: can talk and resolve things, you know.
Speaker 4: I do think too that George Clooney is a smart
Speaker 4: man and he knows that. I mean, I'm not starting
Speaker 4: any fight with a human rights I just think that
Speaker 4: she's going to win. Every time, So he's like, I
Speaker 4: back down side.
Speaker 2: I've heard whispers that people think he's going to run.
Speaker 2: Is he going to run Clooney for president? I've heard whispers.
Speaker 1: I think it would make a lot of sense because
Speaker 1: the Democrats are in all sorts of trouble.
Speaker 3: Remember when it was going to be so I got
Speaker 3: left to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she doesn't want to do it, but I can
Speaker 1: imagine that he'd like to kick that off.
Speaker 3: Gay or King could give it a go.
Speaker 7: Yes, as girl, King would be great A loud us
Speaker 7: thank you all for listening to our wide ranging show
Speaker 7: today and to our fabulous team who've helped us put
Speaker 7: it all together.
Speaker 2: We're going to be back in your ears tomorrow. Takes
Speaker 2: a village to make a show.
Speaker 1: Let us tell you out loud as it does.
Speaker 2: We're going to be back in your ears tomorrow. And
Speaker 2: if you're in Perth, in your eyes on Thursday night byey.
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