Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma mea podcast.
Speaker 2: I was also pretty wild too, Like I mean, when
Speaker 2: I look back, it's like, I'm very I've always been
Speaker 2: very responsible, but you know, like, no, the same kind
Speaker 2: of thing didn't happen to me that happened in Anna
Speaker 2: Nicole Smith. But you know, I mean I was going
Speaker 2: out partying. I worked in the reeve scene, you know,
Speaker 2: and I was up all night and I was like,
Speaker 2: you know, I was just doing a different kind of
Speaker 2: drugs if I'm honest, you know, like I wasn't doing
Speaker 2: addictive drugs, but I was using mind altering drugs.
Speaker 1: Today, on no Filter, you're going to meet a woman
Speaker 1: who's built her entire life on the art of transformation.
Speaker 1: Dieta Bontees was born here the Sweet, a ballet student
Speaker 1: from small town Michigan who fell in love with old
Speaker 1: Hollywood glamour, the idea that beauty itself could tell a story.
Speaker 1: As a teenager working in a lingerie store, she opened
Speaker 1: her first bra, a plain white cotton thing in a
Speaker 1: plastic egg, and felt instantly disappointed. She'd imagined something romantic,
Speaker 1: something transformative, and that moment sparked her lifelong mission to
Speaker 1: make the world or at least her world more beautiful.
Speaker 1: Now known globally as the Queen of Burlesque, her shows
Speaker 1: blend theater, fantasy and precision. But behind the spectacle is
Speaker 1: a woman who's built power out of control and mystery
Speaker 1: out of complete self possession. This is a conversation about beauty, identity, power,
Speaker 1: about desiccated coconut, and the liberation that comes from inventing yourself,
Speaker 1: reinventing yourself, and then living that invention fully. This is
Speaker 1: Dita Vontees, unfiltered. Let me just say, what a thrillities
Speaker 1: to drink you in with my own eyes as though
Speaker 1: I am a lady from a Martini glass.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much.
Speaker 1: Ditavontes, welcome to no filter.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: I've noticed that in nearly all your interactions with people,
Speaker 1: they become very self conscious about what they're wearing in
Speaker 1: relation to how you present. Is that a really common thing?
Speaker 2: I think it is about the person. Yes, you know,
Speaker 2: like a certain kind of person will say something like, oh,
Speaker 2: I didn't know we were dressing up today, you know,
Speaker 2: like right, yes, And those are like even like certain
Speaker 2: friends of mine that I'm like, oh oh yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: how long have we known each other, you know, And
Speaker 2: it's a very particular type of like person that would
Speaker 2: say that. In general, I think people that do feel
Speaker 2: a little like h I guess I you know, maybe
Speaker 2: I feel uncomfortable because you know, I didn't put it
Speaker 2: for the effort. I mean it's usually what I'm saying
Speaker 2: is it says more about them than me. And I
Speaker 2: don't think even I have plenty of friends who don't
Speaker 2: dress up at all, who never say things like that,
Speaker 2: you know, So I think it's just a certain it's
Speaker 2: about that person, and it doesn't make you like a
Speaker 2: bad person that you didn't want to dress up, but
Speaker 2: like you definitely, I don't think it is like I
Speaker 2: can't remember every time turning to somebody saying like, oh god,
Speaker 2: I'm really overdressed. I should have you know, Like I
Speaker 2: just feel like very firm and when I picked, and
Speaker 2: I've been overdressed and underdressed for things, and you know,
Speaker 2: fly undergressed if I'm honest. But you know, like for
Speaker 2: me when I feel underdressed.
Speaker 1: Yes, Wayne, give me an example, data Vontee of ways,
Speaker 1: well you have been on to dress. I know you've
Speaker 1: been on dressed.
Speaker 2: I think the thing is like I might feel that
Speaker 2: I could have gone further, like, oh, I really could
Speaker 2: have gone further with this. I didn't realize I could
Speaker 2: have taken it there, you know. But I might feel
Speaker 2: like underdressed sometimes at like if there was a like
Speaker 2: a fancy dress party that I was invited to when
Speaker 2: I didn't have the right clothes or something, you know,
Speaker 2: or things like that, or I don't know, I'm trying
Speaker 2: to think of an example, but or like, for instance,
Speaker 2: I was just trying on some dresses to wear, like
Speaker 2: a package of dresses that came from a designer I love,
Speaker 2: and I was like, I put on this beautiful like
Speaker 2: beaded dress and it's cocktail length, and I thought, oh,
Speaker 2: but you know what, like I think what I'm going
Speaker 2: to is like people were we wearing full length gowns,
Speaker 2: but this is like a beaded dress. It's just not
Speaker 2: to the floor. So I thought, like, I mean, I can,
Speaker 2: by all accounts, I could wear this dress. It's like
Speaker 2: it's amazing, it's all intricate beadwork and everything. But I
Speaker 2: had this start like, oh, I should really wear like
Speaker 2: a gown because I can at this. So maybe it's
Speaker 2: like that, do.
Speaker 1: You know what I find fascinating. I mean, there's a
Speaker 1: lot that's fascinating about you. But now in a world
Speaker 1: where people are very tribal, and we have the Internet
Speaker 1: and people have access to any manner of accouterments from
Speaker 1: their tribe, you can get online if you decide that
Speaker 1: you're you know, rockabilly or your death metal or your
Speaker 1: you can find all those things. Yea, when you were
Speaker 1: a teenager growing up in Michigan and then later on
Speaker 1: in California, the world wasn't like that.
Speaker 2: No, not at all. But it's real. Isn't it great
Speaker 2: when you get to the point where you're watching all
Speaker 2: these shifts in the world. I mean, I think about
Speaker 2: that all the time about you know, I don't I'm
Speaker 2: very I try to be careful of being that person.
Speaker 2: That's like in my day, we had to use a map,
Speaker 2: you know, you know, in trying to explain to people
Speaker 2: because it is funny, you think like, wow, I'm like,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm to the point where I've experienced all
Speaker 2: this like technology and changing. But I do think like
Speaker 2: not having the internet to google pictures or other people's performances,
Speaker 2: for instance, if I relate it to what I do,
Speaker 2: that fueled me in being creative on my own, Like
Speaker 2: I didn't have anyone to look at. Like when I
Speaker 2: was first making burlesque shows, I had a book that
Speaker 2: had still photos of burlesque stars, like portraits, and I
Speaker 2: saw the movie Gypsy with Natalie Wood and maybe like
Speaker 2: one other forties movie that had burlesque, you know, like
Speaker 2: portrayed burlesque in it. But you know, I didn't have
Speaker 2: like a real example of other burlesque dancers, like real
Speaker 2: life ones, or what burlesque was really like in the
Speaker 2: nineteen thirties and forties. So I've kind of I had
Speaker 2: to like imagine in my mind what I thought it
Speaker 2: should be. And in fact, actually I got coached by
Speaker 2: a very like famous burlesque star and she told me
Speaker 2: what I was, Like, what do I do with these
Speaker 2: feather fans that I have, you know, because I only
Speaker 2: had portraits of Sally Rand, and she's tried to describe
Speaker 2: to me what Sally Rand did. And so it's really
Speaker 2: funny to like think like about how much access there
Speaker 2: is to like you know, get inspiration or copy, you know,
Speaker 2: like there's so it's so easy now, but like I
Speaker 2: really had to sit there and be like, Okay, feather
Speaker 2: fans are like wings, Okay, I'm going to strike these
Speaker 2: poses and I'm going to cover you know. I really
Speaker 2: had to like work it out on my own, and
Speaker 2: so I think like that really helped get me where
Speaker 2: I am today and made me like original because I
Speaker 2: didn't have like a you know, one thing to copy.
Speaker 1: But it's also interesting because you know, when you're a
Speaker 1: teenage job, the compulsionies as a teenager, often you want
Speaker 1: to travel with the hoods. Yes, yeah, And so teenage
Speaker 1: girls now, like i'd see with my daughter, they the
Speaker 1: girls will wear, you know, a tracksuit pants and a
Speaker 1: crop puffer and there's like a uniform that they have.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, which I'm actually very amused by when I
Speaker 2: see because you start to notice it. But you see
Speaker 2: it more in younger people than older people. But you
Speaker 2: see like a group of maybe like four or five girls,
Speaker 2: and I always say this. I'll turn to somebody and say, look,
Speaker 2: same shoe, same hamline, same shirt, like different color, And
Speaker 2: it's like really astonishing when you think about it. And
Speaker 2: so when I think back to when I was a teenager,
Speaker 2: I had like one best friend and we both worked
Speaker 2: in a lingerie store, and so we had our thing
Speaker 2: but it was very different than the other girls. Like
Speaker 2: we wore like a boustier with you know, our jeans,
Speaker 2: or like a slip with a little cardigan sweater. But
Speaker 2: we definitely I didn't have like a group of girls
Speaker 2: addressed like that. It was really me and her that
Speaker 2: cared about vintage. But it was I think because we
Speaker 2: didn't we were totally self sufficient, Like our parents didn't
Speaker 2: give us any money. So like the you know, I
Speaker 2: had friends where I grew up at, you know, in
Speaker 2: Orange County, California, Like ive, I got driven to school
Speaker 2: every day in a nineteen sixties Porsche oh by my friend.
Speaker 2: Oh you know, but those were not mine. That's not
Speaker 2: how I grew up. So my other friend, we were
Speaker 2: both girls that worked and had to pay for our
Speaker 2: own food and school books and all of this stuff,
Speaker 2: you know. But we were hanging around a lot of
Speaker 2: like people that had a lot of money from their parents,
Speaker 2: and so they had all the designer jeans and shoes.
Speaker 2: So we were a little bit like outcasts like that,
Speaker 2: not outcasts, but like we wore vintage things and style
Speaker 2: their clothes very differently than our friends with money.
Speaker 1: Right, and so at that time, you must have even
Speaker 1: had a saints of how you were perceived by your
Speaker 1: broader school community at the time. How did you fit
Speaker 1: into things?
Speaker 2: Well, I feel like there was so many different types
Speaker 2: of people. It's just where I went to school in particular. There,
Speaker 2: you know, there was a lot of that. But I
Speaker 2: don't think I ever felt like I was still friends,
Speaker 2: you know, I was still part of that the friend group,
Speaker 2: and I don't really remember having like a I know,
Speaker 2: there were there were lots of other like clicks, you know,
Speaker 2: like you know, I was you know, I certainly had
Speaker 2: like was part of a clique, you know, but I
Speaker 2: don't know, I'm not exactly sure. I feel like I
Speaker 2: noticed more of the division maybe in my early twenties
Speaker 2: or after I got out of high school, right, And
Speaker 2: I think that would be because like I really started
Speaker 2: when I when I was eighteen and first graduated. You know,
Speaker 2: I had my high school sweetheart was like a water
Speaker 2: polo player, you know, like guard all of these things,
Speaker 2: and so they had this like surf culture. I grew
Speaker 2: up like in high school with him and as part
Speaker 2: of this like surf and swimming culture as opposed to
Speaker 2: like sports. But anyway, so then when we kind of
Speaker 2: came of age, like after high school, I got randomly
Speaker 2: taken to a rave party and I met all these
Speaker 2: drag queens and club kids, and it really like everything changed,
Speaker 2: and it was very like WHOA, Now, I can you know,
Speaker 2: really dress how I want to dress, you know, because
Speaker 2: I was kind of, you know, I was always eccentric
Speaker 2: and like stylish and different because I always enjoyed that
Speaker 2: for myself and always loved, like, you know, pushing the envelope.
Speaker 2: But when I met this kind of whole different world
Speaker 2: of like eccentrics, I really flourished.
Speaker 1: So when you would be prior to that, if you
Speaker 1: were like going to watch your water polo boyfriend play,
Speaker 1: you'd presumably be getting in the pool yourself at some point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was. It was kind of beach you know,
Speaker 2: like the beach.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And were you bringing in that ye oldie
Speaker 1: worldye nineteen fifties sort of Betty Grable in the swimsuit
Speaker 1: Louk than No.
Speaker 2: I got actually remember getting a ticket for indecent exposure
Speaker 2: for wearing a g string bikini in the eighties, really
Speaker 2: because I remember being me and my girlfriend, she tells
Speaker 2: the story, the same friend I was talking about that
Speaker 2: I convinced her that we needed to get these thong
Speaker 2: back bathing suits, and I was like, it's going to
Speaker 2: be really great, girl, all the girls are doing at
Speaker 2: which they were, you know. But I remember we got
Speaker 2: there and she like I just like walked down on
Speaker 2: the beach and took off my like shorts and everybody
Speaker 2: was like whoa, And she was too scared and couldn't
Speaker 2: take off her shorts and get her butt out. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I got a ticket for indecent exposure, which I think
Speaker 2: is hilarious. I would kill to have that.
Speaker 1: Ticket to be oh, yes, frying framed.
Speaker 2: Yes. But anyway, I don't know. I mean I was
Speaker 2: just always kind of like like doing things a little different.
Speaker 2: I wasn't really I wasn't like an exhibitionist really. I
Speaker 2: just liked the idea of this songback bikini that I
Speaker 2: was starting to see, like, you know, poster girls wearing
Speaker 2: and whatnot. It's funny to look back on that.
Speaker 1: And then because it was always then a kind of
Speaker 1: singularity to you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think I always
Speaker 2: just really liked things that were different and rare. I
Speaker 2: grew up watching old movies with my mother and my
Speaker 2: mother is a very like natural type of woman. But
Speaker 2: I remember my girl, like certain friends of mine, I
Speaker 2: had a very eccentric aunt opal and she was, you know,
Speaker 2: more like the blue eyeshadow and the eyeliner and the
Speaker 2: nails and lots of jewelry and smoke. There's a cigarette holder.
Speaker 2: And then I had a girlfriend whose mom had that
Speaker 2: big bouffont hairdoo like with the pink curls, and she
Speaker 2: was a show girl when she was young, and I
Speaker 2: was so so enamored with her. And so I was
Speaker 2: really enamored with the women that were kind of different
Speaker 2: from my mom that were wearing like the red lipstick
Speaker 2: and the extreme makeup. I was really obsessed with that
Speaker 2: and like how my mom was not like that, but
Speaker 2: I would see women that were like that. So I've
Speaker 2: always had, you know, wanting to be like that. So
Speaker 2: when I was old enough to start wearing makeup and stuff,
Speaker 2: that's where I picked up the red lipstick.
Speaker 1: And the red lipstick is in itself such a statement
Speaker 1: because it's terrifying to a lot of aimen. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: like I remember when i'd had my first baby, for
Speaker 1: some reason, I decided, you know, when you emerge from
Speaker 1: the miasthma of you know, milk and everything. I decided
Speaker 1: for the first time in my life to wear red lipstick,
Speaker 1: and if you're not familiar with it, it's such a disaster.
Speaker 1: You make it look easy.
Speaker 2: Well, it's like a disaster for me not wearing red lipstick. Okay,
Speaker 2: It's like it's not about putting it on, it's just
Speaker 2: how I feel, like, I feel like, where'd my mouth go?
Speaker 2: Because it's been such a big part of my life now,
Speaker 2: and like, certainly I'll some days just wear like a
Speaker 2: little bit of lip cloths if I don't plan on
Speaker 2: seeing anyone, But I really feel like weird, like my
Speaker 2: mouth is gone, you know, it just disappears. But I
Speaker 2: get why it's hard for people. And I think the
Speaker 2: reason it's hard for some people is there is so
Speaker 2: many types of red and they really have to like
Speaker 2: learn about what they're correct red for your skin is
Speaker 2: and for your teeth, you know, because this wrong kind
Speaker 2: of red can really make your teeth go of your
Speaker 2: color and you know, so I think like some people
Speaker 2: just don't have the patience, But I do think that
Speaker 2: red can be really great on everyone. And maybe also
Speaker 2: some people don't want to emphasize their mouth and they
Speaker 2: want to emphasize another part of their face. And I
Speaker 2: get that too, Like people are like, I want to
Speaker 2: look like I have a tiny little mouth, and I
Speaker 2: want to have huge eyes, or I want to have like,
Speaker 2: you know, big full lips with no nothing else that
Speaker 2: emphasizes them. Like I understand that. It's just that, you know,
Speaker 2: I just decided what it was for me, and for me,
Speaker 2: it was creating things that I wasn't born with and
Speaker 2: wearing things that I felt like made me feel special
Speaker 2: or different.
Speaker 1: At this point, at what point did you become data?
Speaker 1: Vontees from yeah, from hey, that's sweet?
Speaker 2: Well, first, I'm still Heather Sweet. I never changed my attitude,
Speaker 2: personality or my real name. I think I have a
Speaker 2: fabulous name, but I it was in first I went
Speaker 2: by just data. But in the early nineties, like nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety one, I started working in a strip club, and
Speaker 2: I used, like a lot of people do you're having fun,
Speaker 2: You're you know, using it, playing with the idea of
Speaker 2: an alter ego. You're trying to protect your real name
Speaker 2: so people don't find out where you live, because you know,
Speaker 2: it was easier to find out where people and you know,
Speaker 2: it has always been easy to find out where people
Speaker 2: live with their real name, so I feel like I
Speaker 2: used a made up name. I used just data for that.
Speaker 2: And then a few years later I was posing for
Speaker 2: these special editions of Playboy and they told me I
Speaker 2: had to have a last name, which I argued over
Speaker 2: and told them why couldn't I just be one name
Speaker 2: like Madonna or Cher or whatever, and they said, no,
Speaker 2: you need a last name. So I looked in the
Speaker 2: phone book and found this name, Von Trees, and then
Speaker 2: it came out in the magazine and it was wrong.
Speaker 2: It said Bonteese, and I just like, I tried to
Speaker 2: correct them again because it was like, you know, I
Speaker 2: don't know. I wasn't like thinking, oh, strip tease Vonte's.
Speaker 2: I did not calculate that at all. It was the
Speaker 2: name Von Trees with an R in it, and so
Speaker 2: they kept type, you know, spelling it wrong, and I
Speaker 2: remember sending a fax to try to get it right
Speaker 2: and they're like yeah, yeah. And then finally I didn't
Speaker 2: care and I just left it. And then I didn't
Speaker 2: I really didn't know, you know, I was like twenty
Speaker 2: two years old.
Speaker 1: I was so young.
Speaker 2: And I also felt that at that time, I was
Speaker 2: just doing something fun. It was like, of course, like
Speaker 2: a lot of women, you ever, people always scare you
Speaker 2: when you're young, and that like threatened you about turning thirty.
Speaker 2: And I thought, oh, it was just like a thing
Speaker 2: I'm doing when I'm like young, and like you know,
Speaker 2: when i'm you know, when I can take pose for
Speaker 2: pin ups and everything. So I did not anticipate that
Speaker 2: it was going to be a lifelong career, that I
Speaker 2: was going to be trademarking the name Deed of Aunties,
Speaker 2: and you know, like I didn't. It wasn't like a
Speaker 2: calculated thing. You know, if it had been, I probably
Speaker 2: would have done it differently.
Speaker 1: But because everything seems evident in retrospect, you know, everything
Speaker 1: looks like a career in retrospect. But at the time
Speaker 1: you're just making decisions based on what's fun and the
Speaker 1: opportunity that's presented to you.
Speaker 2: It just didn't seem like it was in the cards
Speaker 2: to be a famous burlesque star in you know, the
Speaker 2: early nineties. No, it hadn't been It hadn't been done.
Speaker 1: No, it hadn't be No, it hadn't been done. And
Speaker 1: this is the thing about when somebody's got a vision
Speaker 1: that I'm so curious about that it just led you
Speaker 1: into places, and now the world has kind of played
Speaker 1: catch up with you because you're so at the top
Speaker 1: of your game and have been for decades and so
Speaker 1: much so. You just collaborated with Taylor Swift on her
Speaker 1: dueled clip, which is a gorgeous behind the scenes of you.
Speaker 1: She does this, She does this, she's so unself conscious
Speaker 1: and yet conscious of what she has to learn. The
Speaker 1: clip sort of opens with her sort of thumping towards
Speaker 1: the camera like loping really while you're teaching her the
Speaker 1: delicate art of immersing yourself in a Martini glass. When
Speaker 1: you have moments like that, like, how did that feel
Speaker 1: when you're approached to collaborate.
Speaker 2: I mean that particular time, because, like I, you know,
Speaker 2: there's been some things like that in the past, but
Speaker 2: I have to say it was very different because the
Speaker 2: way I was approached was with respect for what I do.
Speaker 2: Because you know, I can tell you even since then,
Speaker 2: I have had several emails from pop stars, people's asking, hey,
Speaker 2: can we use your glass? Can we borrow that? We
Speaker 2: want to talk to you, you know, and I definitely
Speaker 2: can see where I'm on the mood board, but they don't.
Speaker 2: They just they just want to use it. They're just like, oh,
Speaker 2: like I'm going to use that or copy it whatever.
Speaker 2: And she approached me with something so much different, Like
Speaker 2: she was very knowledgeable about what I do, She understood
Speaker 2: what I did, and she wanted, you know, she wanted
Speaker 2: to be side by side with me in that moment.
Speaker 2: And it was it was a collaboration. Every bit of
Speaker 2: it from the shoes, you know, to the what we
Speaker 2: wore was all you know, of my world and in
Speaker 2: collaboration with the people I work with. So that's just
Speaker 2: like an unusual thing because people usually just they just
Speaker 2: watch you and imitate, you know. And so I think
Speaker 2: it really says something about her as a performer and
Speaker 2: as a woman who is willing and happy to shine
Speaker 2: the spotlight on another woman, you know, because it could
Speaker 2: have been could have gone all different ways. And I
Speaker 2: remember when I got the call and I was just
Speaker 2: like listening to the pitch idea and then suddenly Taylor
Speaker 2: got on the phone with me and started, you know,
Speaker 2: talking to me like a you know, like a real
Speaker 2: person instead of a pitch for a video. And so
Speaker 2: I think it's just like it's different, and it really is.
Speaker 2: I think a testament to one of the reasons I
Speaker 2: think that she's successful and why so many people like her.
Speaker 2: I think who she really is is radiates, you know,
Speaker 2: it radiates to other people. You don't really hear You
Speaker 2: don't hear her knocking people down unless there's a real
Speaker 2: good reason.
Speaker 1: Say that people approach you sometimes with disrespect. Yeah, what
Speaker 1: does that mean? Does that mean is it because they
Speaker 1: don't understand your body of work? Or do you think
Speaker 1: it's because of the sexual nature of the work.
Speaker 2: No, I think it's because they want to be They
Speaker 2: don't want to credit somebody else for their idea. Well,
Speaker 2: I think it's more like, oh, that's like just like
Speaker 2: or they don't want to. They don't want to they're
Speaker 2: afraid of pay having to pay someone. You know, it
Speaker 2: happens all the time. But I think mostly it's very like,
Speaker 2: look at me, Look what I'm doing. Isn't it amazing?
Speaker 2: But they don't want to. You know, like I collaborate
Speaker 2: with people all the time, and I'm quick to say
Speaker 2: who designed my look, who helped me with the choreography,
Speaker 2: who designed my glasses?
Speaker 1: You know, who makes your silk? Pajamas.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean I think like, certainly I have
Speaker 2: had moments where I want to do that more because
Speaker 2: I think it's a greace thing to do to say,
Speaker 2: Oh no, it's not all me, because I am a
Speaker 2: do it yourself girl like I always have. But I'm
Speaker 2: hands on like I But it's like there are other
Speaker 2: people that I like working with that are generous with
Speaker 2: their They're generous with me with what they teach me,
Speaker 2: and so I like to mention them.
Speaker 1: And also artists are often drawn to each other. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't necessarily even need to be in a
Speaker 1: common field or it's just there's something that they recognize.
Speaker 1: And that is what happened to you. I guess when
Speaker 1: going back to that kind of Playboy era, when you
Speaker 1: were discovered or you entered the world of or you
Speaker 1: were noticed by Gaultier the fashion world, and there was
Speaker 1: a melding of that. How did that? How did that
Speaker 1: come about?
Speaker 2: I mean I feel like it was really like like
Speaker 2: a snowballing of events because you know, I look at
Speaker 2: the nineties is when I was doing all this Playboy
Speaker 2: stuff and like headlining strip clubs across the United States
Speaker 2: or flying you know, doing fetish parties in London or
Speaker 2: la or New York. And then in two thousand things shifted,
Speaker 2: and it there's a few like there's a few things
Speaker 2: that like move the needle, really, you know. But the
Speaker 2: early two thousands, I was performing part as part of
Speaker 2: this big show in Hollywood that had all these guest
Speaker 2: stars from Charlie's thereon and Christina Aguilera, when Stefani, Britney
Speaker 2: Murphy is like a huge who's who of guest stars.
Speaker 2: And I was in this show every week with these stars,
Speaker 2: and I got singled out as the show was really
Speaker 2: great and so and so it's great and so, but
Speaker 2: who is this girl in the glass? And that kind
Speaker 2: of like turned mate turned a corner for me. And
Speaker 2: then it was the same time I was on the
Speaker 2: cover of the Christmas issue of Playboy, which this is
Speaker 2: a time in Playboy history when everyone knew what was
Speaker 2: happening on the cover of Playboy, Like that was the
Speaker 2: Pam Anderson, Anna, Nicole Smith, like Drew barrymore like big
Speaker 2: stars were on the cover of Playboy. So I got
Speaker 2: a lot of attention for that because my cover was
Speaker 2: so striking and different than what was usually on it. Yes,
Speaker 2: and then then it was I got hired. I think
Speaker 2: Mark Jacobs did a lot for me because he was
Speaker 2: currently at that time, he was at Louis Vauton, right
Speaker 2: and he brought me over to perform at several I
Speaker 2: performed did a whole string of events for Louis Vauton,
Speaker 2: including the opening of their flagship store in Paris at
Speaker 2: the Grand Peleis. It was like a huge thing. And
Speaker 2: then Jean Paul Gautier brought you know, was a fan.
Speaker 2: He actually had my Playboy cover. So it was kind
Speaker 2: of like all these things that happened in the early
Speaker 2: two thousands, so I was very lucky about all that,
Speaker 2: well lucky my but maybe well, you know, it was
Speaker 2: just like a time. I also came out with my
Speaker 2: first book, and that really was a big made a
Speaker 2: big splash because it was a very unique book.
Speaker 1: Yes for as time, which was kind of glamor. It
Speaker 1: was glamor, yeah, it was.
Speaker 2: The first one was called Burlesque in the Art of
Speaker 2: the Tees, and the flip side was Fetish in the
Speaker 2: Art of the Teas, and I really spoke about like
Speaker 2: what it is about burlesque and glamour and even fetishism
Speaker 2: that I love so much. And so that book was
Speaker 2: a big, big, like four hundred page book and it
Speaker 2: was put out by HarperCollins and it was a pretty
Speaker 2: you know, it was a big deal for a huge
Speaker 2: picture book in full color to come out like that
Speaker 2: with that much like with a huge publisher behind it.
Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere after the break Dita. She is why
Speaker 1: she had no hesitation telling her family she was working
Speaker 1: in a strip club at eighteen. When we go back
Speaker 1: to when you started in strip clubs, hers to me
Speaker 1: that that is often a conversation that you've got to
Speaker 1: have with your family. Yeah, yeah, that your life is
Speaker 1: taking that turn. And you had so there were three
Speaker 1: sisters in the family. Yes, how was that conversation when
Speaker 1: you said to your sisters and your mom or who
Speaker 1: did you have the conversation with I've got this job. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well I'm gonna be playing in this club.
Speaker 2: Here's the deal. And I was always kind of like
Speaker 2: a shy, quiet girl, but there's certain moments where I'm
Speaker 2: not okay, So listen, I started working when I was
Speaker 2: twelve years old. Okay, I'm working from the second I'm
Speaker 2: allowed to, like first, like cleaning toilets at a ballet studio.
Speaker 2: Then I'm like working putting tags on things and things
Speaker 2: in a store, you know, like, and by the time
Speaker 2: I was eighteen years old, I had a real job,
Speaker 2: I had credit cards that I paid for myself. I
Speaker 2: was completely self sufficient. So by the time anybody could
Speaker 2: say a word about what I had to do, I'd
Speaker 2: be like, oh, really, like I mean, to my parents,
Speaker 2: I did not care. I was like, I'm a grown woman,
Speaker 2: and oh did I miss the part where you said
Speaker 2: that you were going to send me to college?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I was pretty like I have to say, I
Speaker 2: felt I knew, as you can probably hear from my
Speaker 2: voice a little bit like a little like really like
Speaker 2: nobody was going to tell me as an eighteen year
Speaker 2: old woman who was totally self sufficient, not did not
Speaker 2: take a dime from my parents past the age of fifteen,
Speaker 2: So you know, I was never I wasn't. I didn't
Speaker 2: really care what anybody said.
Speaker 1: And was there some resistance or in the face of yeah,
Speaker 1: like you said your autonomy, they kind of yeah.
Speaker 2: I think it was kind of like I had to
Speaker 2: kind of like say like, well, you know, I'm trying
Speaker 2: to do this thing, because yeah, like they knew they
Speaker 2: found out I was working in a strip club. I
Speaker 2: was posing for pin ups and all this stuff, and
Speaker 2: on paper it looks a little weird, but I was
Speaker 2: kind of like thinking, I'm trying to be like Gypsy
Speaker 2: rose Lee and Betty Page, like my idols, and I
Speaker 2: saw it that way, and certainly the material looks that way,
Speaker 2: so you know, I felt I think I felt like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm trying to explain it. And you know, it was
Speaker 2: harder for me, obviously than a lot of other people
Speaker 2: might find it today, because you know, I didn't really
Speaker 2: have any living examples of what I was trying to do.
Speaker 2: I was sort of like, well, I want to be
Speaker 2: like this person, but yeah, I know everybody's been dead
Speaker 2: for a long time, but this is what I want
Speaker 2: to do. What I believe in is I want to
Speaker 2: be the next big burlesque star like Gypsy Roselee or
Speaker 2: Lily Saint Cyr And I was doing that. But you
Speaker 2: know it's funny, though. Is the point where my dad
Speaker 2: like accepted it was when I was on the cover
Speaker 2: play because guess what he grow he was what he was.
Speaker 2: That's where I got the magazine. Like dads of that
Speaker 2: are like age like sixty and seventy and eighty probably
Speaker 2: had a playboy hidden in the house. You know, It's
Speaker 2: like it kind of legitimized me in a way to
Speaker 2: my father especially, which is a funny thing. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean I don't have a religious family. And I know,
Speaker 2: in saying all this, like I certainly could have had
Speaker 2: like a religious family, but I didn't, you know.
Speaker 1: So yeah, but somehow as well, I mean I understand.
Speaker 1: And that's a strange form of logic that your dad
Speaker 1: would have had, was this, Yeah, look if my my
Speaker 1: daughter's yes, uh stripa and look how successful she's. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's the beast.
Speaker 2: I mean, he's like that. Now, it can be a
Speaker 2: little embarrassing where I'm like, oh, you know, I don't
Speaker 2: always feel totally comfortable when my family is watching, you know,
Speaker 2: my show. But I have to separate hea they're sweet,
Speaker 2: from what my job is and and you know, being
Speaker 2: at my very best for the three thousand people in
Speaker 2: the room, I have to very much be like, it's
Speaker 2: not my problem. It's not my problem, it's their problem
Speaker 2: if they have a problem. So and I think I've
Speaker 2: thought that, you know, I've learned that a lot along
Speaker 2: the way. You know, I used to work in a
Speaker 2: lingerie store when I was a teenager, and I remember
Speaker 2: this very well, and my father, you know, I used
Speaker 2: to wash my things. I have nice laundry because I
Speaker 2: worked in a beautiful lingerie store and I was, you know,
Speaker 2: seventeen eighteen.
Speaker 1: That's a great job at that idea.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great, But look at it this way. I
Speaker 2: remember I hung you said, like, hang all my things
Speaker 2: to dry in my room, and my dad was furious
Speaker 2: and he kicked me out of the house. Wow for
Speaker 2: this lingerie. And I remember being like, oh, I get it.
Speaker 2: This is his problem. This is how he perceives lingerie.
Speaker 1: It is for you know, it's forbidden.
Speaker 2: It's forbidden, and it's he it's what he thinks of
Speaker 2: women who wear lingerie. So I was very like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I get it, you know, but and it is sometimes
Speaker 2: you have to think like that in terms of like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is other people's conditioning and it is not. You know,
Speaker 2: all that matters is like how I feel about it.
Speaker 2: You know, I know who I am, but you kind
Speaker 2: of have to you know, we all experience that through
Speaker 2: life where people don't approve of what we're doing, and
Speaker 2: it's a little bit like yeah, it can be a
Speaker 2: bit of an eye roll.
Speaker 1: But also there's something when you mention at the time,
Speaker 1: like who the other sort of Playboy covers were. There
Speaker 1: was a lot of bruised lives at that time, particularly
Speaker 1: if you say like Anna Nicole Smith or whatever. There
Speaker 1: was a certain degree of dysfunction external internal, whereas you
Speaker 1: seem to have a wholesomeness Oh well, I mean it's
Speaker 1: at your core stability, at your CoA. Well you like
Speaker 1: that at the time.
Speaker 2: I guess. But I was also pretty wild too, Like
Speaker 2: I mean, when I look back, it's like, I'm very
Speaker 2: I've always been very responsible, but you know, like, no,
Speaker 2: the same kind of thing didn't happen to me that
Speaker 2: happened in Anna Nicole Smith. But you know, I was
Speaker 2: going out partying. I worked in the rave scene, you
Speaker 2: know who. I worked in the rave scene. I was
Speaker 2: out all night, and I was up all night, and
Speaker 2: I was like, you know, I was just doing a
Speaker 2: different kind of drugs if I'm honest, you know, like
Speaker 2: I wasn't doing addictive drugs, but I was using mind
Speaker 2: altering drugs, you know. And I think, like I don't
Speaker 2: think it was like a bad path at all. It's
Speaker 2: part of like, hey, what are the ways you come
Speaker 2: up with all this creative stuff? You know, I think
Speaker 2: like I don't know, I just don't like to say, oh,
Speaker 2: ann Nicole Smith, you know. Or I mentioned Pam Anderson
Speaker 2: as another person that was a big playboy mom at
Speaker 2: that time, like look at her. She's not like she partied,
Speaker 2: she had fun, but like she's a super responsible, lovely
Speaker 2: woman and did not come out of that like scathed,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: So, but she also had that really bruising episode with
Speaker 1: the release of the Type with Tommy Lee. Do you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like, yeah, but did she Oh okay,
Speaker 1: well I guess.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it wasn't Maybe it wasn't great, but
Speaker 2: I'm sure now looking back, she's like, you know, it's
Speaker 2: truth and it probably wasn't great. Like we I listen,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm friends with Pam. I'm friends with her.
Speaker 2: I don't think like I think she had a sense
Speaker 2: of humor about everything, and I think that she looks
Speaker 2: back and like, yeah, it wasn't all great, but it
Speaker 2: isn't tragic, Like who showed me one person that doesn't
Speaker 2: have some stuff that you're like, oh that was not great.
Speaker 2: You know, we all have that, and I think I
Speaker 2: think it would be like to make an example of that.
Speaker 2: It's you know, I never saw the tape.
Speaker 1: But oh that I saw the type. And do you
Speaker 1: know what? The type was so spectacular. It was so
Speaker 1: spectacular that even in her most unguarded moments, she was magnificent.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: It's like, I get it.
Speaker 2: Do we really think she looks back and sees that
Speaker 2: as something horrible? I mean, it was not great, right,
Speaker 2: but by what happened, And of course she should have
Speaker 2: been the one to make money off of it. But
Speaker 2: and there was more of the one tape right right, right.
Speaker 1: But the thing is someone's always making money of it
Speaker 1: off it. Yes, And as I guess we've learned recently,
Speaker 1: more recently with Kim Kardashian, it's like her family decision was, well,
Speaker 1: it may as well be us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she had a sex tape. Parasitalt had a sex tape. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think I keep under light I might, but guess what,
Speaker 2: nobody's gonna see it?
Speaker 1: Well, everybody thinks nobody's gonna say it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I'll save it from my autobiography.
Speaker 1: Is there going to be one?
Speaker 2: Yeah? But not until I feel very liberated and free
Speaker 2: to say everything I want to say. I don't want
Speaker 2: to hurt anybody's feelings.
Speaker 1: You know, you know when you speak about the past,
Speaker 1: and I'm actually well a significant lover from your past,
Speaker 1: which is Marilyn Manson, you always speak so graciously about him.
Speaker 2: Well not always. If you were to talk to me
Speaker 2: twenty years ago, I would not I have gotten a
Speaker 2: gracious version. And also it goes up and down. It's
Speaker 2: like very like periods of that, like knowing him that
Speaker 2: I've been like, I've said things that are not very
Speaker 2: nice too.
Speaker 1: Right when you met each other, because I saw you
Speaker 1: on a British show, I think it was Loose Women,
Speaker 1: and you said this thing that was so amazing. I
Speaker 1: wrote it down. You said that, and I think they
Speaker 1: were talking about your look, and you said, a strong
Speaker 1: look weeds out the week. And then you said and
Speaker 1: by week, I mean mean I don't want to hit
Speaker 1: on me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's a funny lesson I learned. When
Speaker 2: you know, a few times on Halloween, I dress up
Speaker 2: as like I wear like a blonde or a brown wig,
Speaker 2: and I wear a beige makeup and take off the
Speaker 2: red nail polish and wear like normal, normal clothes.
Speaker 1: That's your halloween.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's my halloween. And I do notice it's a
Speaker 2: very it's a psychological experiment for me because you know,
Speaker 2: I get treated very differently when I'm dressed like that,
Speaker 2: and I noticed, I get you know, I'm going to
Speaker 2: use the word preyed upon by men who normally would
Speaker 2: not approach me. So it's just a funny thing. It's
Speaker 2: like a funny experiment that.
Speaker 1: You say, more accessible, more available.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or less high maintenance, because I've also heard from
Speaker 2: men they're like afraid of me because they think I'm
Speaker 2: high maintenance.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, okay, but when you meet Marilyn Manson,
Speaker 1: obviously he was not intimidated by the look.
Speaker 2: I mean I have lots of I had lots of
Speaker 2: friends who were not intimidated by the look, and lots
Speaker 2: of partners who were not intimidated by my look. Well,
Speaker 2: I mean never never did I do I really have
Speaker 2: like a relationship that was a significant one that somebody
Speaker 2: was not you know, didn't like my look?
Speaker 1: No, of course, I mean that's an integral part of
Speaker 1: having a relationship with someone, is it you have to
Speaker 1: did you like his look, because I found that contacts
Speaker 1: in the Laala. It was a lot.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't like to just talk about that
Speaker 2: relationship because first of all, I was twenty five years ago,
Speaker 2: but secondly, like it becomes like a part of my
Speaker 2: identity that I don't think is fair, because it's just
Speaker 2: becomes like a little bit dismissive of me as a
Speaker 2: person instead of like one of many famous people, because
Speaker 2: I don't advertise the famous people that I've dated in
Speaker 2: the last thirty years.
Speaker 1: But well, you know, you could always put Burley in
Speaker 1: the water by mentioning the other famous people as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and do that now. I'm saving that for myself,
Speaker 2: my own clickbait, maybe even a book or something. But
Speaker 2: do you you know what I mean? It just feels
Speaker 2: like I've been asked about this since I've been divorced
Speaker 2: for over twenty years now, and so people ask me
Speaker 2: about it and or but yeah, it's twenty years. It's
Speaker 2: crazy to talk about it. Nobody wants to talk about
Speaker 2: their boyfriend from twenty five years ago, do they?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess that's true. But I think the reason
Speaker 1: that it's still gone as so much interest is that
Speaker 1: it brought you to the world in a different light,
Speaker 1: like a lot of people came to know you through
Speaker 1: that era.
Speaker 2: Right. Well, again, like I've been doing, you know, doing
Speaker 2: what I do longer than that. But you know, I
Speaker 2: just kind of keep my relationships as quiet as I
Speaker 2: can because it's really like I've felt how hard it
Speaker 2: can be because it is fun for people to talk
Speaker 2: about it, but then you have to remember I'm a
Speaker 2: real person with real feelings, that does, you know, and
Speaker 2: people forget that. They're like, it's not that easy always
Speaker 2: for me to talk about you know, no, and like
Speaker 2: he's married to somebody else and I'm with somebody else.
Speaker 2: It just this is like a little bit like, oh,
Speaker 2: why does this have to be at this stage of
Speaker 2: my life, Like this big thing that I'm forced to
Speaker 2: talk about.
Speaker 1: Well, it's part of the journey, I guess of you.
Speaker 1: But we don't have to talk about it. I mean
Speaker 1: it's it's yeah, we've established Yeah.
Speaker 2: I just want, as we're having a very open conversation,
Speaker 2: I just like to explain why it's a weird thing
Speaker 2: to talk about, because I think it's a little I
Speaker 2: had a journalist say to me the other day and
Speaker 2: she actually said, I want to apologize to you. And
Speaker 2: I said, well for what And she said, I interviewed
Speaker 2: you ten years ago and I kept asking you why
Speaker 2: you didn't have children and hammering you about this, and
Speaker 2: I was like oh, And she's like, I was really
Speaker 2: wrong to ask you about that. And I keep waiting
Speaker 2: wondering when people are going to think realize it's wrong
Speaker 2: to ask me about like the demise of a marriage.
Speaker 1: You know, did you remember that conversation when the journalist apologize.
Speaker 2: Because it gets asked all the time. People have been
Speaker 2: asking me that for as long as I've been famous,
Speaker 2: you know, Like so it's like one of the questions
Speaker 2: and you just think, oh, what a weird thing to
Speaker 2: ask someone. And now now the question instead of being
Speaker 2: about having children, now people are asking me, which is
Speaker 2: crazy too, about like perimenopause. And I'm like, oh, are
Speaker 2: you asking me about my Now you're gonna now you're
Speaker 2: gonna ask me about the state of my reproductive organs
Speaker 2: and what they're doing. That's so crazy. I'd like to
Speaker 2: talk about my work.
Speaker 1: You know, well, I think also because your work is
Speaker 1: I don't know what the right word is. It's not sexual.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's sexual. It's sexy, but it's not sexual.
Speaker 1: It's anyway.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a complicated I guess because it is
Speaker 2: like very female forward and I have a big queer audience,
Speaker 2: and it's like it is very it's not like sexy
Speaker 2: under the male gaze. So I think, like that's what
Speaker 2: for me and for what I know about my audience,
Speaker 2: there is interest in talking to me about beauty and
Speaker 2: exercise and health and stuff like that. And I wrote
Speaker 2: a beauty book. But yeah, it's just like a funny thing.
Speaker 2: How like it's interesting to see what the questions like
Speaker 2: that that you go, oh wow. I wasn't ready to
Speaker 2: talk about that today. I was just thinking about Feathers
Speaker 2: and rain Stars.
Speaker 1: Coming up. After the break, Dita talks about the difference
Speaker 1: between performing for her fans and performing for the male games.
Speaker 1: I think it resonates with women because I think particularly now,
Speaker 1: you know, we were talking earlier about how these are
Speaker 1: kind of a flattening of how particularly young women look,
Speaker 1: you know, the hoodies and the thing, and that it's
Speaker 1: almost asexual in a way. And because you have presented
Speaker 1: this these age old manifestations of what beauty and femininity
Speaker 1: and grace can look like in a very stylized way.
Speaker 1: I think there's a real appetite from women. Forget the
Speaker 1: male gaze. I don't actually when I watch your work,
Speaker 1: it's not that men cannot appre as we know.
Speaker 2: Right, Like, it's not something I think about. And there's
Speaker 2: been times, like in the recently where I've been like
Speaker 2: performing in a different atmosphere than usual and then like,
Speaker 2: oh wow, I didn't. It's a total shift, you know,
Speaker 2: like it happens so sometimes and I go, oh wow,
Speaker 2: I forgot how this How different this is.
Speaker 1: You when you say the shift, is it with the
Speaker 1: male audience.
Speaker 2: Or yeah, Like maybe sometime in the last like few years,
Speaker 2: there's two occasions I was like, oh, and I was
Speaker 2: one of them was performing in like Hong Kong at
Speaker 2: a private members club and it was definitely male, and
Speaker 2: I was like, oh wow, I forgot about this.
Speaker 1: You know that weed silence, that weed silence that when
Speaker 1: the men alive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like it's just different. Oh, this is sexy, And
Speaker 2: so I remember being like, well, shift into sexy for men,
Speaker 2: you know, like I remember how it feels, and it's
Speaker 2: kind of fun, right because it's just a different feeling
Speaker 2: than going on stage in a historic theater with like,
Speaker 2: you know, thirty five hundred like fans, and then as
Speaker 2: opposed to you know, performing my glass act in front
Speaker 2: of like a men's a private high members club for men.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, this is so different, but it's funny,
Speaker 2: you know, it's just a funny shift where you can
Speaker 2: you can always feel the energy of an audience, and
Speaker 2: it just reminded me of when I was, you know,
Speaker 2: much younger in the nineties when I was doing that
Speaker 2: in strip clubs. But yeah, it was like, it's an
Speaker 2: interesting mindset where you're like, oh, it's different, this is different.
Speaker 1: And then the women, because you're beloved of women, the
Speaker 1: energy from that feels like what in comparison.
Speaker 2: There's just a different like feeling. I think part of
Speaker 2: it is because I do have the knowledge of no,
Speaker 2: you know, interacting with my fans verbally or the letters
Speaker 2: they send me, and I do have an understanding of
Speaker 2: where a lot of the like meaning for people comes from,
Speaker 2: whether it's watching me or just watching the show that
Speaker 2: I'm presenting, which tends to be you know, the best
Speaker 2: bur lesqued performers in the world that are different types
Speaker 2: of people than me. I don't it's not like a
Speaker 2: just a girly show. I've always tried to cast like
Speaker 2: the show with regard for people who I think are
Speaker 2: really interesting and different and unique. So I feel like
Speaker 2: it's you can feel that there is like something, there's
Speaker 2: a reason people are coming to a show like this,
Speaker 2: and it's not just to like watch, you know, me
Speaker 2: do a striptease. I think it does have like the
Speaker 2: backstory of the books I've written, or my lingerie brand,
Speaker 2: or the things that I say that maybe resonate with
Speaker 2: other people. Me giving permission for people to embrace their
Speaker 2: erotic side, their sensual side, to permission to wear cat
Speaker 2: I eyeliner and red lipstick in a world where it's
Speaker 2: not altogether been always acceptable. You know, sometimes you get
Speaker 2: made fun of for those things. So I think there's
Speaker 2: things different things resonate for different people, you know. So
Speaker 2: it's definitely I think it's part of the key to
Speaker 2: my longevity is that it's more than just you know,
Speaker 2: a burlesque show.
Speaker 1: Yes, and I think people also love that about you.
Speaker 1: You know, women particularly get the message that these are
Speaker 1: used by date or that you know, after a certain date,
Speaker 1: we sort of shrivel up like a piece of desiccated coconut,
Speaker 1: you know, and then to see you now in your
Speaker 1: like third decade of bringing this, it's quite inspirational.
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, let me say, dried coconut is
Speaker 2: tastier than we all know that. It's tastier dehydrated with
Speaker 2: a little bit of sweetener on it. Anyway, I'm a
Speaker 2: big coconut fan. Yeah, I mean I think like when
Speaker 2: I was first creating my shows and casting other formers
Speaker 2: around me, I definitely, you know, I didn't really think
Speaker 2: about diversity and inclusion. I certainly didn't think about age
Speaker 2: diversity at that time, like you know, two decades ago.
Speaker 1: You don't have to when you're young.
Speaker 2: Right, right, You don't think about it all when you're
Speaker 2: young until you're in it and you're like, oh, this
Speaker 2: is matters and yeah, and I you know, I have
Speaker 2: definitely been guilty of conditioning when it comes to myself.
Speaker 2: Like I said, not that long ago, I said to
Speaker 2: my bosses and Las Vegas, the Venetian, I said, for
Speaker 2: you know, my show is going on two years there,
Speaker 2: and I said, oh, maybe this show could be like
Speaker 2: a standalone and we can hire other, like, you know,
Speaker 2: younger dancers to do my parts and then they can
Speaker 2: just be a beautiful, like sexy, standalone show. And they
Speaker 2: were like, no, yes, people want to see you, and
Speaker 2: I was like they do, you know, So I'm kind
Speaker 2: of always like checking myself to make sure, you know,
Speaker 2: like I but it is. It is an interesting thing,
Speaker 2: and I feel very lucky to be performing through this
Speaker 2: like different phases of life, and definitely lucky to see, like,
Speaker 2: you know, what it means for people to see I'm
Speaker 2: fifty three, what it means for people. But you know,
Speaker 2: when I look out into the audience and I see
Speaker 2: people of all ages and younger people who are just
Speaker 2: learning about burlesque, and you know, my show is the
Speaker 2: you know, there's not another show like mine anywhere else.
Speaker 2: So a lot of young people come to see it.
Speaker 2: And then the people who are are older or my
Speaker 2: age or you know that have been watching me for
Speaker 2: twenty five years, and so I just think, like it
Speaker 2: does matter, like I have to when it comes to
Speaker 2: like diversity. I've had a choice, and I have retired
Speaker 2: myself a couple times. And then one day I thought like, oh,
Speaker 2: what if you just keep like evolving your art and
Speaker 2: keep evolving and learning new things and becoming better and
Speaker 2: making the show bigger and bigger and bigger. And that's
Speaker 2: kind of what my goal has been. Like a few
Speaker 2: years ago, I put in like a you know, a
Speaker 2: big ballroom dance number strip tease after I did Dancing
Speaker 2: with the Stars, and I was like, let's do this
Speaker 2: with the clothes cut flying off and you know, or
Speaker 2: like with infusing the grand illusions into my show, with
Speaker 2: putting magic in the show, it's learning magic tricks is
Speaker 2: very difficult. So I thought, I'm going to challenge myself
Speaker 2: and I'm going to bring together new things and new
Speaker 2: elements into my show because I don't think it's just
Speaker 2: about like looking a certain way, like I mean, I think,
Speaker 2: you know, I feel strong. I think I feel confident
Speaker 2: on stage. I don't feel like, of course, if I
Speaker 2: don't feel like I want to be taking my clothes
Speaker 2: off on stage, I won't. But I keep thinking like,
Speaker 2: oh wow, okay, why was I so afraid of forty?
Speaker 2: Why was I so afraid of fifty? Now? You know,
Speaker 2: like it just is I get it, Like, you know,
Speaker 2: I do not think I'm going to be like parading
Speaker 2: around on stage wearing with a sixty five pound Swarowski
Speaker 2: crystallized costume. When I'm, you know, seventy eighty, I don't
Speaker 2: think that's going up to the boy. How would I know?
Speaker 2: You know, don't I don't. I've always been wrong, you know.
Speaker 2: We put this idea in young women's heads from when
Speaker 2: we are seventeen years old. They always say, oh, you're
Speaker 2: going to be twenty. Oh, you're going to be twenty five,
Speaker 2: you're halfway to thirty, you're going to be thirty, you're
Speaker 2: getting older. What are you going to do when you're forty? Oh,
Speaker 2: it's all going to be over That's how we are
Speaker 2: trained to think. And I wish we could get rid
Speaker 2: of that. I wish we could stop teaching women, especially
Speaker 2: that they're over the hill as soon as they turn thirty,
Speaker 2: and getting us afraid of every decade, you know, And
Speaker 2: so it is my I feel like it's kind of
Speaker 2: my job to be up there going here. I am
Speaker 2: at fifty, I'm wearing a gee string and pasties. Don't
Speaker 2: be afraid, you know, Like it's just like a thing
Speaker 2: where you're taught to be afraid. And I would like
Speaker 2: that not for the way to be.
Speaker 1: Where do you think that comes from? Because it's not
Speaker 1: you know, we were talking about the male gaze before
Speaker 1: and actually saying that doesn't necessarily align with the truth
Speaker 1: of what you do or who appreciates you. I don't
Speaker 1: think that fear of aging comes from men either necessarily.
Speaker 1: I think women also do it to each other.
Speaker 2: Well you know what, I was just thinking, Yes, I
Speaker 2: think it's women, but also please know And I had
Speaker 2: this conversation this morning when I was looking through like
Speaker 2: a book of like I get this beauty magazine and
Speaker 2: it had all these like clastic surgery before and afters,
Speaker 2: and there's a lot of men that have facelifts. And
Speaker 2: my partner said, oh, yeah, but it's like a lot
Speaker 2: of gay meen. And I was like, okay, wait, let's
Speaker 2: talk about that for a second. It is a lot
Speaker 2: of gay men that are getting work done. What does
Speaker 2: that say about the being male driven? Because I don't
Speaker 2: hear about any lesbians. Kid, you don't hear about many
Speaker 2: but lesbians getting right. Yeah, that's interesting. I'm just spitballing
Speaker 2: again I had today. I have not like researched it
Speaker 2: before I talked about him, But do you know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying, It's like, we don't really talk about like
Speaker 2: one of my best friends in the world is a
Speaker 2: butcher lesbian, and it would never occur to her or
Speaker 2: any of her friends that they are going to get
Speaker 2: a facelift. However, I have a lot of gay male
Speaker 2: friends who are getting facelifts, yes, who feel that sign.
Speaker 2: What is this is it? Maybe? Could it maybe be
Speaker 2: men in general that are a little more youth obsessed
Speaker 2: than anybody else? I don't know. I don't know the answer,
Speaker 2: and I know it could be is a generalization always,
Speaker 2: but I'm just just a thought.
Speaker 1: So the conversation, this is what we're going to take
Speaker 1: a while, and this is going to be the headline.
Speaker 1: Dejavonte says, be more lesbian.
Speaker 2: No, if only we could. We can't. We can't. We
Speaker 2: don't get to decide who we're with, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Hey, you're coming to Australia next g Yes, I am,
Speaker 1: which is very thrilling.
Speaker 2: I'm excited. It's been seven years since I've been there
Speaker 2: with my.
Speaker 1: Show and you're playing big venues. Yes, what is the
Speaker 1: the theme of these shows? So you don't really talk
Speaker 1: in your shows?
Speaker 2: No, I don't, and you know I've been I get
Speaker 2: pressured sometimes too, but I always think like, oh, you
Speaker 2: know what though it's kind of like in Las Vegas,
Speaker 2: I don't have a host at all, but on the
Speaker 2: tours I have a host because it is like a
Speaker 2: big there are big crowds, and I like the host,
Speaker 2: like holding things together. Yes, but I do think it's
Speaker 2: a little bit like going to a ballet performance or
Speaker 2: it's a dance performance, and I like the feeling and
Speaker 2: the idea of like telling a story without talking, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't know, It's like I like it also because
Speaker 2: it is a unique perspective and you can go to
Speaker 2: a show from a singer and they'll talk to you
Speaker 2: and tell you some stories and stuff. But I don't know.
Speaker 1: I like that you love it when they tell the story, Yes.
Speaker 2: Totally, but I don't. I don't know. I feel like
Speaker 2: I like the idea of I have a tendency to
Speaker 2: pivot whenever I see what everybody else is doing. And
Speaker 2: I just like a variety show, like a fun variety show.
Speaker 2: When the curtains close, they open again on a new story.
Speaker 2: Then that story's over, they open again on another new story. Right. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So like the only times I've really talked in my
Speaker 2: show is like you hear my voiceover, like all the
Speaker 2: voiceovers are my voice, or there's songs that have my
Speaker 2: voice in them. But yeah, generally, I don't know. I
Speaker 2: guess I just like that it's a different, different perspective
Speaker 2: and a different different thing, like I don't see myself
Speaker 2: like putting out a microphone and talking.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know people would love it.
Speaker 2: Well, we'll see.
Speaker 1: And I actually think you would. I think you would
Speaker 1: love it.
Speaker 2: Maybe that'll be my next phase of life. I mean
Speaker 2: maybe because even when I see like magicians, I really
Speaker 2: like who do talk through the illusions? I actually because
Speaker 2: I've been studying magic, the magic world. I really love
Speaker 2: actually the ones who come out and do it to
Speaker 2: music and they don't say anything, do you know the
Speaker 2: ones they have a beautiful music and it's all like
Speaker 2: it's is dance and like you can read the thoughts
Speaker 2: on their face. Like I love this. I like disappearing
Speaker 2: into this like fantasy that isn't like somebody talking and
Speaker 2: waking you up and telling you what they're going to do.
Speaker 1: What magic are you learning?
Speaker 2: Well, I don't want to spoil it the surprises because.
Speaker 1: Okay, are you getting swored in half?
Speaker 2: No? No, I'm kind of like, you know, I can
Speaker 2: tell you this When you mentioned like the magician sawing
Speaker 2: somebody in half, I've taken these kind of old tropes
Speaker 2: like that and I'm flipping the script on them. So
Speaker 2: we've all seen the show girl getting sawed in half. Well,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna saw somebody else in half. Maybe you know
Speaker 2: I'm not going to. I'm just telling you, like I've
Speaker 2: put I put a lot of thought into like what
Speaker 2: do I how do I make this different? Like? And
Speaker 2: I've even asked magician friends of mine, like, we've seen
Speaker 2: the male magician doing this to the show girl, but
Speaker 2: have we seen a woman doing this to the show boy?
Speaker 2: And They're like no. So this is kind of my
Speaker 2: perspective of where I'm taking things is like just a
Speaker 2: little bit like different, you know, a little bit.
Speaker 1: Do you know what? I'm not surprised data you were
Speaker 1: taking things in a different direction.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I just thought it would be fun to try
Speaker 2: something new. And I love to make like a themed
Speaker 2: variety show. And I like the challenge of magic because
Speaker 2: it is like it's really complicated and hard, but really
Speaker 2: fun to work on it with these I've befriended a
Speaker 2: lot of different magicians. I live near the Magic Castle,
Speaker 2: which is here in Hollywood, And of course.
Speaker 1: I know it's amazing, isn't it great? It's incredible? Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so it's so magical, it's so perfect a castle.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I'm friends with many of those magicians, and
Speaker 2: I'm friends with magicians in Vegas, so it's it's like
Speaker 2: a fun little thing for me to talk to all
Speaker 2: of them about like what they think I should do
Speaker 2: and how I should do it. And some of the
Speaker 2: illusions are a lot more complicated and difficult than some
Speaker 2: of the others.
Speaker 1: Is it protected knowledge? Like how do you learn from
Speaker 1: a magician because they raise that?
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I've been lucky enough that like two
Speaker 2: of the illusions I'm doing, I was taught by some
Speaker 2: master magicians who I saw actually perform at the Magic Castle,
Speaker 2: and I start and I found out they were following me,
Speaker 2: and then I started working with them, right, and they
Speaker 2: taught me two of their illusions, you know, or you
Speaker 2: can kind of say like I and I don't want
Speaker 2: to spoil any surprises, but I said, I have this
Speaker 2: idea that I want to do this, and then they go, hmm,
Speaker 2: let me think about that and come back to you.
Speaker 2: And then they'll come back with like it's like detective work,
Speaker 2: like they go, here's the three different ways we can
Speaker 2: maybe do it. And so that's kind of how it works.
Speaker 2: It's like you come up with fantastical ideas and then
Speaker 2: somebody says, like you could do it, but it's you
Speaker 2: need this, that and the other. Some of it is
Speaker 2: like you know, equipment, some of it is just practicing
Speaker 2: and like you know it's smoking mirrors, right, But yeah,
Speaker 2: Like so I just kind of came up with a
Speaker 2: few different things that I wanted to do, and I've
Speaker 2: consult consulted with six or seven different magicians. Some people
Speaker 2: build these illusions and some people perform them, and some
Speaker 2: people are the ones that used to perform that maybe
Speaker 2: just coach people. So I have. Yeah, it's like a
Speaker 2: combo of like maybe uh probably like in general for
Speaker 2: magicians who are really coaching me on.
Speaker 1: This, I think this is your next incarnation. This is
Speaker 1: like it could be.
Speaker 2: I did say that. I said one day, I go,
Speaker 2: should I be a magician in my into my sixties?
Speaker 2: And they're like you already are, but yes, why don't
Speaker 2: you feel? Yeah? I feel free?
Speaker 1: And also right costume, yeah, data Vonte as magician magnificent costumes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I like that, you know it. A
Speaker 2: lot of things are about how you present them, you know,
Speaker 2: so I love.
Speaker 1: That everything nearly everything is about how you present it. Really,
Speaker 1: I mean it has to have a heart, but everything
Speaker 1: is Shakespeare's seed is entrances and exits.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that. Well, this could be my next ye,
Speaker 2: my next thing. But I do keep saying to people,
Speaker 2: don't worry, I'm not quitting my day job. This is
Speaker 2: a burlesque show with some punchlines of magic in it,
Speaker 2: so I'm still people are still going to see me
Speaker 2: do the best of what I do. It's just a
Speaker 2: little moments that are extra magical.
Speaker 1: And also, don't forget your day job is a night job.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Well it is really a day job because
Speaker 2: you can't see it. But I have a whole table
Speaker 2: full of to do lists that are my day job,
Speaker 2: which leads to the night.
Speaker 1: Job, I'm sure. And even just your if your day
Speaker 1: job was nothing more than your beautiful house, which I
Speaker 1: think our produce A Bree was has been Architectural Digest's
Speaker 1: most popular video that they've made.
Speaker 2: Oh really, yeah, it's still the most popular.
Speaker 1: Spectacular thank you and a true kind of fusion of
Speaker 1: your artistry and your sweet self. Thank you, thank you
Speaker 1: as you have been and I thank you for sharing
Speaker 1: yourself within you no filter, and we can't wait to
Speaker 1: see you in Australia. Will you bring your partner with you?
Speaker 1: Will Adam come with you?
Speaker 2: Oh no, he probably won't come. It's so far and
Speaker 2: he works, and I don't know. I always think, like,
Speaker 2: I mean, he's never been to Australia or New Zealand.
Speaker 2: And I know it is really exciting for people, but
Speaker 2: it is. It's like a big long haul, as you know.
Speaker 1: All the more reason to bring company.
Speaker 2: I know it's true. We'll see, we'll see. I'll check
Speaker 2: with him.
Speaker 1: And when you do come. There's an Australian delicacy. It's
Speaker 1: as called a Lamington, which she is a beautiful sponge
Speaker 1: rolled in chocolate icing and then rolled in desiccated coconut.
Speaker 2: We love.
Speaker 1: We love it. Thank you so much, Thank you very much.
Speaker 1: I've interviewed a lot of women on this show. Very
Speaker 1: few live their lives with the kind of intention and
Speaker 1: focus that Dita Vontees does. Like every choice she makes,
Speaker 1: from the color of her lipstick to the way she
Speaker 1: arranges a vintage lamp shade feels like an act of
Speaker 1: self respect, or of reclaiming control over how she moves
Speaker 1: through the world. And what I love most about her
Speaker 1: isn't just the glamour or the feathers or the fantasy.
Speaker 1: It's the discipline. It's that she's built her power quietly
Speaker 1: with that discipline, and with patients, and with total authorship
Speaker 1: over her own story. I hope you loved this conversation
Speaker 1: as much as I did. Dita Vonteza's news show is
Speaker 1: coming to Australia next year. Will include information on where
Speaker 1: you can see her in the show notes, Thanks for
Speaker 1: listening to No Filter. The executive producer of No Filter
Speaker 1: is Nama Brown, The senior producer is Bree Player. Audio
Speaker 1: production is by Tina Mattloff and video editing is by
Speaker 1: Josh Green. This episode was recorded at Castaway Studios and
Speaker 1: I am your host Kate Langbrook and I will see
Speaker 1: you next Monday.