1 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: The Melbourne Remand Center looms large on the corner of 2 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 1: Spencer Street and La Trobe Street, just west of the 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: city's bustling CBD. A state of the art high security 4 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: holding center, it's home to over two hundred and fifty 5 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: dangerous and hardened criminals while they await trial, sentencing and transfers. 6 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: With towering red brick walls and bullet resistant polycarbonate windows, 7 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: the Remand Center is said to be escape proof, but 8 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: thirty eight year old inmate Peter Gibb is about to 9 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: put that to the test. Gibb is a career criminal 10 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: who's been in and out of prison for over twenty years. 11 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: His most recent offense payroll robbery, for which he's looking 12 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: at a ten year stretch, but his stint at the 13 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,639 Speaker 1: Remand Center has had its perks, this time around a 14 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: prison guard named Heather Parker. Heather is a thirty year 15 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: old mother of two, and despite claiming she didn't even 16 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: notice Gibbet first, she quickly becomes smitten. Their relationship began 17 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: to develop the more time they spent together, eventually turning 18 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: from flirtatious to physical. On one occasion, a fellow prisoner 19 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 1: even caught them locked in a linen closet together inside 20 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 1: the remand center. After that discovery, Heather was transferred to 21 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: the Correction's head office in South Melbourne and forbidden from 22 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: contacting Peter, but that didn't stop their illicit affair from 23 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: continuing in secret. In fact, Heather's new job had given 24 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 1: her access to restricted files that she soon realized could 25 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: be used to their advantage, and with the help of 26 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: another inmate acting as their middleman, Heather and Peter hatched 27 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: a plan. At around six pm on the seventh of 28 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: March nineteen ninety during a prison boxing tournament. When everyone 29 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: was distracted, Peter Gibb and his wingman Archie Buterly initiated 30 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: their escape plan. They attached plastic explosives that had somehow 31 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: been smuggled inside the jail to the window of their cell, 32 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: shattering the bulletproof glass. They fled down a rope made 33 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: of sheets and racing to the getaway car Heather had 34 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:29,799 Speaker 1: left for them nearby, But the escape quickly turns into 35 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,359 Speaker 1: a chase, with police cars right behind them as they 36 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 1: race through the busy streets of Melbourne CBD. Archie and 37 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: Peter would eventually evade police and meet up with Heather 38 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: fleeing to regional Victoria in hopes of anonymity, that their 39 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: escape plan would set them on a deadly path. A 40 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: fire to cover their tracks in a small town would 41 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: alert authorities to their whereabouts, and soon police descending on 42 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: a remote patch of bushland would face a ferocious gunfight 43 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: that not all of the fleeing trio would survive. I'm 44 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: Claire Murphy and this is True Crime Conversations, a Muma 45 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: Mere podcast exploring the world's most notorious crimes by speaking 46 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: to the people who know the most about them. Dubbed 47 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: Australia's Bonnie and Clyde, Peter Gibb and Heather Parker's unorthodox 48 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: relationship made headlines around Australia in nineteen ninety three. Peter's 49 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: escaped from prison with Heather's assistants sparked a five day 50 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: manhunt that would go on to become one of Australia's 51 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: largest criminal pursuits. But Peter and Heather's star cross lover's 52 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: storyline would captivate the media long past their capture and 53 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: become the basis for the TV movie War One Way Tickets, 54 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: starring Peter Phelps. Melbourne journalist and author Meghan Norris has 55 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: followed this story for years and has spent time investigating 56 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: the psychology behind prison romances. She joins us Now, So, Meghan, 57 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: who was Peter Gibb before he met Heather Parker? Why 58 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: was he even in jail in the first place. 59 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 2: Well, he was a career criminal, dating back to very 60 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 2: early days. He was in jail at the time he 61 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 2: met has A Parker. He was in Melbourne Romans Center 62 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 2: in the City Center in Melbourne, facing charges of armed 63 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 2: robbery and he'd got a past conviction for manslaughter. I 64 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 2: think so is heavy duty. You know, it was a 65 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 2: heavy duty, dangerous, violent criminal. 66 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 1: And the prison breakout that we're about to dive into 67 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: wasn't the first time he'd attempted something like this. Was 68 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: it he'd broken out of? Was it Victorious Entridge Prison 69 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: in the past? How did he manage that one? 70 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 2: He removed a window, he got some gear that he'd 71 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 2: found in a boiler room and he broke out of 72 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 2: the prison through a window. And he was at large 73 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 2: for about a month. And that was some time before 74 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: he met Parker, and he was in Saint Kilda lurking around. 75 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 2: And that leaves you cold. You know, Saint Kilda is 76 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 2: a very busy place of all sorts. It's a mixture 77 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 2: of all sorts. But he was hanging out in Saint 78 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 2: Kilda with another guy who'd escaped from a prison in 79 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 2: Beachmont who has also had a dreadful record for violence 80 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 2: and manslaughter and stuff. And that guy ended up getting 81 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 2: shot and killed when the police were pursuing him, and 82 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 2: GiB was re arrested and sent to Melbourne Romand Center 83 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 2: where he met Heather Parker. 84 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: Was he known as someone who manipulated people, because that's 85 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: the story that's come out since then, is that he 86 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: manipulated the women around him in that remand center. Was 87 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: he known for manipulating people whilst committing those crimes? 88 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 2: Yes, he was there, all were and Archie Butterley too, 89 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 2: who he then teamed up with. Very clever at convincing 90 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 2: people to do what they want. And that's the danger 91 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 2: with these sort of illicit trysts. It's not just you 92 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 2: know that. I know it was painted as a sort 93 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 2: of Bonnie and Clyde love story, but it was actually 94 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 2: much more than that. It was a really dangerous liaison, 95 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 2: much more than a love story. Because once an affair 96 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 2: like that starts. There's opportunity for black male. There's opportunity 97 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 2: to manipulate people, to bringing things into prison, contraband like 98 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 2: drugs and weapons as it was in this case, explosives 99 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 2: and persuading people. You know, other people find out, other 100 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 2: inmates find out. So it leaves bigger opportunity for a 101 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 2: potential scandal and for her to be manipulated by other people. 102 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about her for a moment. Who was 103 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: Heather Parker before she got involved with Peter Gibb. Was 104 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: there any suggestion that she would do this or had 105 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: she done anything like this before in her career. 106 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 2: No, to all intents and purposes, I think she appears 107 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 2: to have been carefully targeted. And one thing these crims 108 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 2: are good at is their predators, and they target people, 109 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 2: and they watch people, and they keep people under surveillance. 110 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 2: So at close quarters like that, she'd have been a 111 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 2: pretty easy target. She was thirty years old, she was 112 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 2: married to another prison guard, but that marriage was failing, 113 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 2: and she was feeling a bit lost. She wasn't getting 114 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 2: as much access to her to kids as she wanted. 115 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 2: I think she was lost, and I think that would 116 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 2: have become very apparent to some a clever criminal like 117 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 2: Peter Gibb. 118 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: So how does something like this start to blossom inside 119 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: a remand center? I mean they know that there was 120 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: a case where they were caught at one stage in 121 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: a linen closet together, But how do you have a 122 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: relationship between a prison guard and a prisoner when you're 123 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: in prison. 124 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 2: Well, it would have been tricky. There would have been 125 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 2: a lot of watching. Certainly they were observed coming out 126 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 2: of the linen cupboard and at that point the other 127 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 2: prison guards, colleagues of Parkers started to kick up and 128 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 2: there were concerns expressed about the relationship. There were rumors 129 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 2: flying everywhere, and she was immediately transferred I think to 130 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 2: Penridge and then she was transferred i think to the 131 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 2: secure wing of Saint Vincent's Hospital. So she was places 132 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 2: where she couldn't have a relationship anymore. But that did 133 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 2: not stop the relationship which should be done behind bars 134 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 2: in the Melbourne remand Center. So she then became a 135 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 2: visitor and you have to wonder how that happened. You know, 136 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 2: I've thought, how did you know these screen visitors? Lists 137 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 2: say screen phone calls. Surely that would have caused alarm 138 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 2: bells to be roun. You'd have thought that those visits 139 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 2: would have been even more strictly supervised than your regular 140 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 2: visit given her job. 141 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: Since she's then transferred out. Is there any evidence that 142 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: Peter geeb tried to start a relationship with any other 143 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: of the female staff of that romand center. 144 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 2: I haven't found any information to that effect. It did 145 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 2: appear to be a romance, but for one end, from 146 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 2: his point, he wanted to escape. So you have to wonder, 147 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 2: don't you. But they did appear to be in love, 148 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 2: and you know, certainly that was used as a defense 149 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,839 Speaker 2: when eventually came to court that there were star cross 150 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 2: lovers that were just wanting to be together. And he 151 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 2: was looking at a very very long sentence. He'd spent 152 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 2: most of his life in jail. 153 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: So I hear her is off working at these other jobs, 154 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: still in the correction service, She's visiting GiB and at 155 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: some point a plan is hatched to break him out, 156 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: like it was never confirmed exactly how, but she manages 157 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: to smuggle in just a little bit of plastic explosive. 158 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: What does Peter Gibb do with that? 159 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 2: Well, Peter GiB By then is involved with Archie Butterly 160 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 2: and they talk about kindred spirits. Here's another one, you know. 161 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 2: And he's another dangerous, violent criminal, a lot smarter than 162 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 2: Peter Gibb. He'd done time in wa in Fremantle Prison 163 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 2: where he'd actually attempted to break out. He wasn't quite 164 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 2: so smart though. He sort of dug a hole in 165 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 2: his cell with help of a cell mate into the 166 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 2: next door cell, and then they dug a hole from 167 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 2: that cell into the Catholic chapel next door, and then 168 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 2: they tried to escape by shimmying down a drain pipe 169 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 2: from the roof to the ground to the parade ground. 170 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 2: But he fell from the roof height on that drain 171 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 2: pipe and broke his ankle. The cell mate it was 172 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 2: bungled you. It was chaos, and the cell mate panicked 173 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 2: and got back in the cell and went back to 174 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 2: bed and stayed there. Archie Butterly ended up handing himself 175 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 2: in because he knew he couldn't get far on a 176 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 2: broken ankle, so it was all over. But he was 177 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 2: described as a really clever, intelligent, charming inmate that's Freemantle, 178 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 2: and was very clever. He wrote loads of poetry and 179 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 2: prose and he even went to Murdoch University as an 180 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 2: external student and studied. He was one smart guy, but 181 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 2: he was also a total career criminal. Came out here 182 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 2: as a kid from Scotland, got into loads of trouble. 183 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 2: By fourteen, he's in trouble with the law. By eighteen 184 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 2: he's in an adult jail and he'd got convictions for 185 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 2: arm robbery, manslaughter and firearms of fences. So, you know, 186 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 2: they were very similar. And I wonder whether Archie Btterly 187 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 2: would have known about this relationship and said, well, you know, 188 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 2: I'm in on that. But they built a homemade bomb 189 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 2: which they used to blast through an armored window on 190 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 2: a second floor of the Remand Center. And I don't 191 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 2: know if you know where the Remand Center is in Melbourne, 192 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 2: but it's at the bottom of Spencer Street. It's really 193 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 2: busy down there, and they blew that window out. They 194 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 2: blasted that window out and tied sheets into knots and 195 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 2: lowered themselves down into the trope street. At six o'clock 196 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 2: at night, it's rush our commute home traffic. Maybe that 197 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 2: was the plan, you know, pick RUSSI our traffic and 198 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 2: disappear into the traffic very quickly. But I used to 199 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 2: work up there, and I thought they would have gone 200 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:55,719 Speaker 2: into the height of the evening rush our home, and 201 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 2: yet they pulled it off. 202 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: Would that, like you said, have made it easier. Lot 203 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: of prisons we know, are out sort of in regional 204 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 1: and remote areas, so if someone does escape, there's a 205 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,319 Speaker 1: whole lot of nothing between that jail and the next, 206 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: you know, community that they could escape into. Did that 207 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:11,319 Speaker 1: essentially make it easier for them? 208 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 2: No, it didn't. It was a sort of a ill 209 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 2: conceived idea really all together. But they sort of lowered 210 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 2: themselves down on this rope made of prison sheets to 211 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 2: a waiting car that you presume Parker had a hand 212 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 2: in organizing, where there was a pistol inside, the firearms 213 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 2: inside the car, and that was waiting in an early 214 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 2: way just off the trope street, and they literally disappeared 215 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 2: into the traffic, But not that well, because a prison 216 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 2: officer witnessing their escape hailed a taxi and basically says, 217 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 2: follow that car, which the taxi did, and look. I 218 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 2: was in Melbourne twenty six years. I covered courts in Melbourne, 219 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 2: and I worked in Melbourne, and I'm sort of picturing 220 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 2: which way they would go at that time of night, 221 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 2: because they could have just been sitting in the traffic 222 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 2: going no where, but they didn't. They charged off and 223 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 2: crashed into a kind of barrier gate and headed off 224 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 2: towards the Westcate Freeway, obviously trying to get out of 225 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 2: the city. That would have been a bad idea too, 226 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 2: because the traffic on the Westgate Freeway at six o'clock 227 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 2: at night would have been, you know, really heavy traffic. 228 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 2: And they did this with the taxi in pursuit and 229 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 2: a prison officer on a walkie talkie radio telling the 230 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 2: police which way they were going, you know, following them. 231 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 2: So they had a couple of crashes. They crashed a 232 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,559 Speaker 2: couple of times, and then in one of the crashes, 233 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 2: a kindly motorist, not knowing what he was pulling over 234 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 2: to help, pulled over on his motorbike to offer a 235 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 2: hand because they were quite injured in that accident. These 236 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 2: two escapeees take his motorbike is Honda motorbike, and hair 237 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 2: off on the motorbike. So they head off with this 238 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 2: losing this prison officer, but he knows which way they're going. 239 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 2: He's seen them bolt and so divvy van turns up 240 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 2: with two other police officers, also really not knowing what 241 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 2: they're walking into. So the one gets out with his 242 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 2: bat and raised, you know, to approach these two dangerous, 243 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 2: violent criminals, and they start firing at him. So he's 244 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 2: shot twice and collapses to the ground unconscious. Immediately, the 245 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 2: other one exchanges fire, I think with GiB and Butterly, 246 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 2: who's got a pathological hatred for police, so he's a 247 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 2: man with nothing to lose, is looking at a long sentence. 248 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 2: He approaches the unconscious police officer and pulls his pistol 249 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 2: off him and holds the pistol to his head and 250 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 2: says to the other officer stop shooting at us now 251 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 2: or I will kill him. And he has a pathological 252 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 2: hatred for police. I'm amazed he didn't kill that officer. 253 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 2: I think in interviews since that officer has said he 254 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 2: is amazed that he's still alive, you know, given his history, 255 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 2: that he didn't just shoot him in the head. But 256 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 2: he didn't. They then took off again, at this time 257 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 2: in the DIVV van, so they hair off through more 258 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 2: traffic and managed to get out of the city and 259 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 2: they head towards the southeast. They go towards Seaford to 260 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 2: a warehouse where they've got this car waiting that Heather 261 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 2: Parker is organized, so they leap in this pagero and 262 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 2: they set off to get out of the city. They 263 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 2: go to a rural area. They head down to Gippsland 264 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 2: to Traalgon, where they were bold enough. I'm amazed by this. 265 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 2: They were bold enough to call at the local hospital 266 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 2: to get themselves patched up because utterly had got a 267 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 2: very injured arm and one of them had a head injury, 268 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 2: so there was all blood all over the motorbike when 269 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 2: the police found it, so they knew they were injured. 270 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 2: But they had got the boldness to go into this 271 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 2: hospital in the Latrobe Valley and go into casualty and 272 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 2: get fixed up. 273 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: And did no one in that hospital raise the alarm 274 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: at all, obviously. 275 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 2: And then they took off, so you know, I'm sure 276 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 2: it was all happening fast. I'm sure an alert would 277 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 2: have gone out to all the city hospitals, but that's 278 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 2: not where they went. And they then headed for the bush. 279 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: So they go to the hospital, they get patched up. 280 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: Do we know where they're actually heading towards where their 281 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: final destination is I don't think that was clear. 282 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 2: I think they were just panicking. They were just looking 283 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 2: for somewhere to hide. So they headed north towards the 284 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 2: bush and they've sat up a little camp in the bush, 285 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 2: and I think they might have been there for a 286 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 2: few days, because I think it was around the eleventh 287 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 2: that they turn up in a little place called Gaffney's Creek. 288 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: You're listening to True Crime Conversations with me Claire Murphy. 289 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: I'm speaking with journalist and author Meghan Norris about Australia's 290 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: Bonnie and Clyde, Peter Gibbs, and Heather Parker. So they've 291 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: been on the run for five days by that stage. 292 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, So they turn up at Gaffney's Creek Hotel, which 293 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 2: is a historic one hundred and twenty five real lossie pup, 294 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 2: you know, And they turn up there, book a room. 295 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,120 Speaker 2: This is Parker and GiB So they book the room, 296 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 2: sneak Archie Butterly in as their child. They claim they 297 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 2: have a child, a sick child, and they sneak him 298 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 2: in the room. But he's bleeding really really badly by now, 299 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 2: he's really injured. In the meantime, enjoying their freedom, their 300 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 2: brief freedom. Romeo and Juliet go downstairs and mingle in 301 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 2: the restaurant, in the pub restaurant, and that's the tiny 302 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 2: little tone, so strangers would have stood out, and they 303 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 2: hang out. They wine and dine in this restaurant. They 304 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 2: takes a meal back upstairs for Archie Butterly, who's really injured, 305 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 2: And then they decide he is so injured they'd better 306 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 2: get the heck out of there, so they burn the room. 307 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 2: They set the room on fire to cover the evidence, 308 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 2: because there's blood everywhere, and they didn't want anyone to 309 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 2: know he'd even been there, so they set fire to 310 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 2: the room, but actually burned down the entire hotel. So 311 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 2: the poor old license see was pretty upset that the 312 00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 2: whole hotel burned down. But that then attracted a ti 313 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 2: so then the local police are called to the hotel. 314 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 2: And when they described the two guests that were in 315 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 2: the dining room that night, it fits the description of 316 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 2: Heather Parker and Peter Gibb. 317 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: But Peter GiB had tried to change his appearance by 318 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: this stage, hadn't he. 319 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,199 Speaker 2: Yes, whilst in the bush, It isn't it bizarre? I 320 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 2: looked at the photos of him, and he had shaved 321 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 2: a massive streak like an airstrip right down the middle 322 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 2: of his head. He got quite dark hair to try 323 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 2: and make himself look bald and old, you know. So 324 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,239 Speaker 2: he's got these mad professor tuff side the side and 325 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 2: this great expanse of bald patch in the middle of 326 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 2: his head, which was it looked pretty bizarre. 327 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: And had they done anything whilst they were socializing with 328 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: the people in the pub that caused them any suspicion? 329 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: Was any of their behavior questionable while they were enjoying 330 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: a few drinks and dinner. 331 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 2: Well, it doesn't appear to be, because no one raised 332 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 2: the alarm, and you would have thought their faces would 333 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 2: have been all over the telly, you know, because they 334 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 2: were on the run. However, at that stage, certainly the 335 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 2: police initially were concerned that they described a skinny woman 336 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 2: with sonny's and a headscarf in one of the cars 337 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,199 Speaker 2: with them, or had been sighted with them. They were 338 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 2: not sure at that stage whether these pair had taken 339 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 2: a hostage, so it wasn't clear whether Heather Parker was 340 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 2: complicit and was an accomplice in this escape, or even 341 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 2: if it was Heather Parker. They didn't know, but there 342 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 2: was a suspicion that she could either have been an 343 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 2: accomplice and had helped in this elaborate escape, or else 344 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 2: she was an innocent hostage that they'd just abducted in 345 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 2: a car. You know, there was no that wasn't clear 346 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 2: to begin with. But then the police did a search 347 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 2: of Heather Parker's house. She would have come up in 348 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 2: bright lights, I think, and they found love letters from 349 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 2: Peter Gibb which became clear from some of the content 350 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 2: of those letters that she was part of a plan 351 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 2: to get him out. 352 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 1: Do we know where Heather accessed the guns and explosives 353 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 1: that were used during their escape, because she armed them 354 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,880 Speaker 1: from the very beginning, from the explosives to the guns 355 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: she left in the car to the guns they took 356 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: with them while they were on the run. Any ideas 357 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: where she sourced all of this from. 358 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 2: Well, she was a former prison officer, and he had 359 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 2: known acquaintances, and she would have surely known who those 360 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 2: acquaintances were. Certainly at the time that they embarked on 361 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,679 Speaker 2: that it was a massive nationwide police hunt for this 362 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 2: pair because they were really dangerous, and during that they 363 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 2: raided her home and then they turned They also raided 364 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 2: the homes of known acquaintances of both Butterly and Peter Gibb, 365 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 2: so you would have imagined he would have told her 366 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 2: exactly where to go to organize that sort of stuff. 367 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: So they burned down the hotel, raise suspicions with authorities 368 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: who realize, hey, this is who we're looking for. Do 369 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 1: they have any idea where they've gone from that point? 370 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 2: No, they obviously must have guessed they couldn't have got 371 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 2: too far from the time they'd left the hotel, so 372 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 2: they started to look in that in regional North Victoria 373 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,120 Speaker 2: to see if they could find them. I think it's 374 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 2: actuallys Jamison, which is you know, pretty remote bush that way, 375 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 2: and I guess there was an idea they were probably 376 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 2: heading towards the border of New South Wales, I would say. 377 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 2: So what happened was some walkers found the Pageerio abandoned 378 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 2: in the bush and half covered with bracken. It was 379 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 2: partially concealed, and they found a makeshift you know, there 380 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 2: was a makeshift camp obviously near where this vehicle had 381 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 2: been hidden. Because obviously that people knew now what they 382 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 2: were driving because the hotel would have known. So they 383 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 2: started to look around. And the original plan was that 384 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 2: the police would sit it out and wait for them 385 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 2: to come back to the car, but the media were 386 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 2: following the story. So the media, who got wind of 387 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 2: the fact that the cops were on a stakeout for 388 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 2: these two dangerous fugitives in the bush, sent out media choppers. 389 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 2: You know, so you've got the Channel nine or Chunnel 390 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 2: ten media chopper hovering over the area where they can 391 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 2: see the police, which alerted Butterly, Gibb and Parker to 392 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 2: the fact that the police are onto them. So they 393 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 2: bedded down. They bunkered down in this sort of fox 394 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 2: hole in the bush, and Butterly wanted to shoot it out, 395 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 2: you know. He was he hated the police, and I 396 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 2: think as well there was a sort of sense from 397 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 2: that that the other two might have been a bit 398 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 2: worried about him because he was crazy and he was dangerous. 399 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 2: And later on in his police record of interview after 400 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 2: they were captured, Gibb did say from the minute he 401 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 2: shot that policeman, GiB felt like it was all over. 402 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 2: You don't do that. He'd really crossed the line. He 403 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,640 Speaker 2: shot a police officer. It was almost then fatalistic view 404 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 2: of it. This is all over for us. Now, we've 405 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 2: really got to go for it. He was unpredictable and erratic, 406 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 2: butterly and they were quite nervous about him. 407 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: So they've dug themselves into this little spot in the 408 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: bush and the police bring in sniffer dogs to try 409 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 1: and hunt them down. From my understanding, they didn't initially 410 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,919 Speaker 1: see them, but the dogs alerted them that there was 411 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: definitely at least somebody there, if not the people that 412 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 1: they were looking for. What happens after the dogs alert 413 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 1: police that there's someone there, Well, it got a. 414 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,919 Speaker 2: Bit confusing because in general terms, normally you'd expect the 415 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 2: Major Crime Squad to be dispatched to deal with a 416 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 2: situation like that, but they dispatched members of the Special 417 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 2: Operations Group because the Major Crime Squad at that time 418 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 2: had just been disbanded following some series of scandals, so 419 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 2: that the people who normally deal with it within the 420 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 2: police force were not, so they sent the Special Operations Group. 421 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 2: These are the tactical guys. They'll be armed to the 422 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 2: teeth and they're used to those sorts of hostage type 423 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,919 Speaker 2: situations and shoot outs things, So they sent members of 424 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 2: the Special Operations Group, but there was also a little 425 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 2: group of officers that were also dispatched, a small unit, 426 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 2: and they included people like there was officers I think 427 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 2: his name was Graham Spook Arthur, they called him Spook, 428 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 2: and there was another officer called I think he was 429 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 2: Cameron Duncan, and Cameron Duncan. That guy was in a 430 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 2: precarious situation because he had arrested Archie Butterly before for 431 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,439 Speaker 2: arm robbery, and Archie Butterly was intercepted on a prison 432 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 2: phone making death threats towards Duncan and his family. So 433 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 2: the minute these guys busted out, Duncan becomes part of 434 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 2: the team. Archie Butterly certainly would have had a gripe 435 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 2: with him, but Duncan's family had to be immediately relocated 436 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 2: to a safe place, so while these guys were at large, 437 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 2: Duncan's family were in danger too. So there were all 438 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 2: these complexities. So they got Special Operations Group with their 439 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 2: high powered weapons staking out the car. But then the 440 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 2: media choppers go over and alert their fugitives to the 441 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 2: fact that the cops are onto them. Then the sniffer 442 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 2: dogs go in. Then this little unit with Duncan and Spook, 443 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 2: Arthur and Rod Miller Syniconstable Miller. So when the whole 444 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 2: thing kicked off and they started exchanging shots, there was 445 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 2: this massive crossfire between the Special Operations Group police and Butterly, 446 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 2: who took aim and started firing at them. As soon 447 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 2: as they got within twenty meters of his camp. He 448 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 2: just started firing, and he was absolutely armed to the teeth, 449 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 2: so he'd got the weapons that Heather Parker had put 450 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,439 Speaker 2: in the car. They had high powered rifles and rounds 451 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,439 Speaker 2: and rounds of ammunition, so you know, he was in 452 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 2: there for the long haul. So he was firing at 453 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 2: the Special Operations Group. They were firing backs, and these 454 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 2: other guys, this little unit of police took cover because 455 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 2: they were caught in the middle. They were caught in 456 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 2: the crossfires, so they could have been killed, so they 457 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 2: took cover and it went on for about half an 458 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 2: hour this shooter. In the meantime, Duncan and Arthur, Spy 459 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 2: Peter Gibb, and Heather Parker making a break for it, 460 00:25:55,880 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 2: so Butterly still shooting at them. The Special Operations behind 461 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,639 Speaker 2: them are shooting back Parker and GiB I'm wading across 462 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 2: the Goldburn River because this camp of this was on 463 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 2: the bank of the Goldburn River at Picnic Point. So 464 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,239 Speaker 2: they think, oh, they're going to get away, They're going 465 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 2: to get across the river. So these guys, they're very brave. 466 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 2: They made a break for it. They broke their cover 467 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 2: basically and scrambled through the bush and jumped them. So 468 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 2: they jumped into the river, and they jumped GiB and 469 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 2: they jumped Parker. But they had to wrestle them to 470 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 2: the ground to handcuff them because they could have been shot. 471 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 2: They could all have been shot, so it's luckily there 472 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 2: wasn't a fatality. I think one of the Special Operations 473 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 2: Group officers were shot in the leg but maintained his 474 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,439 Speaker 2: position and carried on firing. But these guys could have 475 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 2: been killed by friendly fire, not just by Archie, butterly. 476 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,479 Speaker 2: So they arrest Parker. She was laughing the entire time. 477 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 2: They later reported she was actually laughing at the whole scene. 478 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: Was she having a breakdown? Was she just enjoying the experience? 479 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 1: Did they ever expect and why? 480 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,159 Speaker 2: I know they never explained why. I wondered if it 481 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 2: was like panic, hysterical. I don't know. Or whether she 482 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 2: just genuinely thought it was you know, it's all over 483 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 2: for us, and you know, if you don't laugh, you'll cry. 484 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 2: Who knows. But they did make that arrest under some 485 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 2: pretty serious conditions. Amazingly, they were not shot, but they 486 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 2: waited till the firing stopped, and then the Special Operations 487 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 2: Group went in with their dog and Buttery was dead 488 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 2: and he'd died of what appeared to be a self 489 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 2: inflicted gunshot wound to the back of his ear, which 490 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 2: is an odd place to shoot yourself, behind your ear. 491 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 2: And so he was dead and the other two were 492 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 2: under arrest. 493 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 1: Was it ever figured out whether he was the one 494 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: who pulled the trigger or of somebody else, Well. 495 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 2: It was certainly the forensics. It went to an inquest 496 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 2: because they had to determine the cause of his death. 497 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 2: With the cause of his death was this gunshot wound 498 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 2: behind the ear, but all it was odd. He still 499 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 2: had rounds upon rounds upon rounds of ammunition. So why 500 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 2: would he kill himself? Why would he do that? Given 501 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 2: the personality he is, his hatred for the police, and 502 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 2: the fact that he had a full magazine and rounds 503 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 2: and rounds of ammunition. He could have kept it going 504 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 2: for another hour. Why would he shoot himself in the head. 505 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 2: Why would he do that and not just shoot himself 506 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 2: in the head. It was discovered that it taken half 507 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 2: an hour to die. At the inquest, it was determined 508 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 2: that he hadn't shot himself, that forensics said he hadn't 509 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,640 Speaker 2: shot himself, but the police couldn't have shot him. There 510 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 2: was some thought that maybe there was a plan between 511 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 2: him and Gibbon Parker. You make a break for it, 512 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 2: aren't too injured. He was very, very injured. You make 513 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 2: a break for it. I'll hold the cops off until 514 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 2: you get away. There was some thinking about that, and 515 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 2: then he may have shot himself, but they sort of 516 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 2: thought no. The forensics said no, I hadn't. They didn't 517 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 2: believe he shot himself, And then there was a thinking 518 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 2: that maybe what either Gibb or Parker may have shot 519 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 2: him at his request before they left, you know, finish 520 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 2: me off. I'm not going to be able to make it, 521 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 2: you guys go, or maybe there was also a theory 522 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 2: that maybe they'd shot him because he wasn't going to 523 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 2: let them leave and he was going to shoot to 524 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 2: the death. So it was very very open ended. It 525 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 2: was just one big mystery. 526 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: So Parker and Gibbon now in custody, Yes, what happens 527 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: to them when their case goes to court. 528 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 2: Well, their arrest was sensational obviously, there were media choppers around. 529 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 2: The media were all over it. They'd burned down the 530 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 2: local hotel. You know. It was a real Bonnie and 531 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 2: Clyde escape. It was certainly the stuff of movies, you know, 532 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 2: this illicit affair that had led to this very bold 533 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 2: prison breakout at six o'clock at night, which in March 534 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 2: would have been daylight, broad daylight into Russi hour traffic, 535 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 2: you know, and led police on a merry chase across Victoria. 536 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 2: But when the case came to court, it was a 537 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 2: really sensational court case. You know, they've gone an inquest first, 538 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 2: who killed Archie utterly? Did he kill himself? Did someone 539 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,479 Speaker 2: do it at his request? Which one of them if 540 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 2: it had been one of the colleagues, or which one 541 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 2: had done it? And had they done it at his request? 542 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 2: Or had he killed himself or had they done it 543 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 2: because he wouldn't let them leave. There were all these 544 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 2: questions flying around, so there was a lot of media 545 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 2: interests but basically it became a sort of I'll do 546 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 2: anything for love, you know, this infatuated and they did 547 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 2: say she was pathologically obsessed with him. It was a 548 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 2: real infatuation. That she was vulnerable, she was unhappy in 549 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 2: her marriage. He'd shown her a lot of attention, whether 550 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 2: that was intentional, because his real endgame was to get 551 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 2: himself out of there, which was completely ironic because the 552 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 2: charges that he was being held on at the time 553 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 2: he broke out were eventually reduced and he could have 554 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 2: walked out the door without at de climate. No, he 555 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 2: didn't know that when he did it, so you know, 556 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 2: it was well covered, this illicit affair. Amidst all that, 557 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 2: there were calls from the police union and the prison 558 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 2: officers union that it was actually a really dangerous thing. 559 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 2: It wasn't this lovely, harmless love affair at all. It 560 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 2: was a highly dangerous liaison because it put these relationships 561 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 2: put everyone at risk because they're open to manipulation or 562 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 2: black mail. They can be coerced into bringing drugs into jail, 563 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 2: weapons into jail. In Heather Parker's case, explosives into jail. 564 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 2: She's in breach of her contract. This solicit affair puts 565 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 2: is a breach of trust on behalf of the employer, 566 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 2: which someone from the police union pointed out, and it 567 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 2: put the lives of everyone she worked with in danger. 568 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 2: It also put the lives of other inmates in danger. 569 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 2: It put the lives of innocent people, police officers and 570 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 2: innocent members of the public in danger. So what if 571 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 2: someone in that pub had gone and knocked on the 572 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 2: door he said, I've just seen your face on the telly, 573 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 2: that they have killed that person. 574 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: Probably, Well, those two walkers doubled across their camp. They 575 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: dodged literally a bullet. 576 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, So you know, all of those things raised a 577 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 2: lot of flags about the screening, about the dangers that 578 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 2: these relationships with inmates can cause. So underneath this sort 579 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 2: of Bonnie and Clyde glamour story, it didn't have a 580 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 2: happy ending. These things never have a happy ending. And 581 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 2: they were each given ten years. I think they were 582 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 2: charged with over forty offenses relating to the escape. They 583 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 2: each got ten years. But Heather Park had never been 584 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 2: in trouble before, so she would do one third before parole, 585 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 2: one third of a sentence, so she was out in 586 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 2: three and a half years. Peter Gibbs charges were eventually reduced, 587 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 2: and so he was at first, but she has lived 588 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 2: with the notoriety of that relationship ever since, and a 589 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 2: barrister setting courts. She gave up everything, well she did, 590 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 2: didn't she. You know, she gave up a family, She 591 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 2: never saw her kids, she was estranged from her two children, 592 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 2: she lost a job, she was vilified. He comes out 593 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,719 Speaker 2: first and in sort of true Hollywood style, picks her 594 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 2: up from Deer Park Correctional Center when she's released in 595 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 2: a stretched limo and drives her to flashy Crome Towers, 596 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 2: which I laughed when I read that because I thought, 597 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 2: you know, Crome Towers is a stone stroke from the 598 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 2: Melbourne Remand Center. I bet you can even see it 599 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 2: from one of the hotel windows. And that's where they 600 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 2: went back to their old stomping ground and stayed the 601 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 2: night there, you know, like a loved up couple that 602 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 2: they were, and actually moved in together and went on 603 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 2: to have two children. But there was a furor over 604 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 2: her selling her story after her release. You know, all 605 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 2: these lives have been touched and ruined, so she's then 606 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 2: going to make a mint out of a movie. Sixty 607 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 2: minutes are paying her. I think New Idea were paying her, 608 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 2: and it raised the whole question of should criminals profit 609 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 2: from their crimes. So you know, the DPP was saying, 610 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 2: we should be confiscating any proceeds. She should not be 611 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 2: allowed to have any money from the movie, and she 612 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 2: shouldn't be allowed to have money from Sixty Minutes or 613 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 2: from the magazines, which then raised question of people like 614 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 2: kath Pattingil who'd just done a book deal. She was 615 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,280 Speaker 2: a well known matriarch of an underworlled family in Melbourne. 616 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 2: She'd just done a lucrative book deal, and journalists like 617 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 2: myself where arguing, well, well, we'll lose those stories then, 618 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 2: because they'll never tell their stories for nothing. Why would they? 619 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 2: So yeah, it caused a lot of It caused a big, 620 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 2: big funeral about checkbook journalism. 621 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:31,359 Speaker 1: After the big Hollywood stretch limousine Crown Towers pick up, 622 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 1: what is Peter Gibbs and Heather Parker's relationship like, after 623 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,400 Speaker 1: all of this settles down and they've moved in together 624 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 1: and are trying to go back to whatever kind of 625 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: normal life those two can get back to. 626 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 2: Well, it was fraught with trouble, as you can imagine. 627 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 2: I think that anyone could see that relationship was doomed 628 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,840 Speaker 2: from the start, except for Heather Parker, who had hopes 629 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,839 Speaker 2: and thought she'd found love, and they went on to 630 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 2: have two children. The police were constantly being called to 631 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 2: the which is ironic, isn't it the police that they'd 632 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 2: armed up against and were firing at. Now suddenly Heather 633 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 2: Parker's calling the police to protect her from Peter Gibbs 634 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 2: drunken rags and he was a nasty drinker. He was 635 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 2: a violent man and her life with him was not easy, 636 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 2: And of course he's a career criminal, so in no 637 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:24,720 Speaker 2: time he's back inside. So he did another armed robbery 638 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 2: of a car yard, and I think he might have 639 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 2: got a suspended sentence for that. But then Heather got 640 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 2: wind of the fact that he was cheating on her 641 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 2: with a younger woman and confronted this woman and attacked 642 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 2: her so savagely that the woman's arm was fractured and 643 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 2: she spent several days in hospital having a plate put 644 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 2: in her arm. As a pretty vicious attack. She was 645 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,879 Speaker 2: hit with a barstall and really seriously assaulted. So then 646 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,839 Speaker 2: Heather Parker's charged with that assault. But she's the mother 647 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 2: of two small children there, so she's pleading with the 648 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,839 Speaker 2: courts not to lock her up because she's got two 649 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 2: young children. In the meantime, Peter Gibb, who feels like 650 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 2: he's responsible because he had the affair and cheated on her, 651 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 2: he goes around to persuade the victim to drop the charges, 652 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 2: so he's charged with perverting the course of justice, so 653 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 2: he's sent to jail. She gets a suspended sentence, and 654 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,240 Speaker 2: their lives were not happy. 655 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 1: Did they stay together for much longer after all of 656 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: this happened. 657 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 2: A while, They did it for a while and then 658 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 2: she separated and in the end she left with the 659 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:34,840 Speaker 2: children and he moved into a Housing Commission house at Seaford, where, 660 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 2: in a drunken prank with friends he locked a friend's 661 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 2: eight year old son in a freezer and it was 662 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 2: only for minutes, but he did it, and whilst he 663 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,160 Speaker 2: might have thought it was funny, three of his mates 664 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 2: did not, and so they went around to the house 665 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,760 Speaker 2: in twenty eleven, I think, and bashed him up badly 666 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,319 Speaker 2: and he'd got an underlying heart condition because of his 667 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,960 Speaker 2: heavy drinking, and he died two days lng in the 668 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,719 Speaker 2: Frankston Hospital from a massive heart attack of heart related problems. 669 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 1: What was the response from the people involved in that 670 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: whole breakout process after hearing Peter Gibb had died. I 671 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,280 Speaker 1: imagine there would have been some very relieved police officers. 672 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 2: There were some very relieved police officers. They interviewed the 673 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 2: two officers that had confronted them that day. About twenty 674 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 2: years after the crime, I think they had a reunion 675 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 2: of these officers and Warren Trellowe, at the officer that 676 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,560 Speaker 2: was shot, talked about how his life had changed after 677 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,359 Speaker 2: the shooting. That he'd gone on to a desk job 678 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 2: in Paran and his job there, which was I found 679 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 2: really interesting because he would have been very good at it. 680 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 2: His job was interviewing victims of violent crime, particularly women 681 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 2: who were being violently assaulted in domestic violence situations. He 682 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:52,839 Speaker 2: interviewed rape victims. He identified with those victims himself now 683 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 2: as a victim of a very serious crime where he 684 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 2: could have lost his life. So he did that at 685 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 2: Paran Police station for quite a long time and eventually 686 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 2: left the force. He said, I'm amazed that given the 687 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 2: history of the offenders and how dangerous they were, and 688 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,240 Speaker 2: they'd killed before, and they were armed and they hated 689 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 2: police that he's amazed that he didn't pull the trigger. 690 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,440 Speaker 2: The buttlely didn't pull the trigger, but he didn't, so 691 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 2: he said, I'm amazed I'm here today. But both of 692 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 2: them had since left the police force, both of those officers. 693 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 2: They did stay a while. But yeah, there were some 694 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 2: very relieved people, and certainly people who had been on 695 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,840 Speaker 2: the receiving end of them were saying like the world 696 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 2: was a better place without them. 697 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 1: Do we know where there is today? He said. She's 698 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 1: estranged from her first two children, but she would have 699 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,240 Speaker 1: continued to raise her second children now without a father. 700 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:43,720 Speaker 1: Do we know where she is today? 701 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 2: No, I think she's sort of taken a step away 702 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 2: from the public spotlight. I think she would have had 703 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 2: more than enough of that. I was working out that 704 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:55,920 Speaker 2: the kids at the time she went to court, her 705 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 2: children were three and seven. That was a long time 706 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,160 Speaker 2: ago to seven, so those children would be quite grown 707 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,800 Speaker 2: up now, and she's probably wanting to protect them, i'd say, 708 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,879 Speaker 2: and sort of disappear into suburbia and try and live 709 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,560 Speaker 2: on what's left of a normal life. And there've been 710 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,880 Speaker 2: a number of cases since which I found really interesting 711 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,920 Speaker 2: because every time another case pops up of a female 712 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 2: guard having an affair with a dangerous male inmate. They 713 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,440 Speaker 2: resurrect the Heather Parker story, but they've now made it 714 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 2: a criminal offense to have any kind of relationship between 715 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,840 Speaker 2: a prison guard who's in a position of power and inmate, 716 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,880 Speaker 2: and it carries up to two years in jail, so 717 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 2: they're having to police that very strictly. 718 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,240 Speaker 1: Thanks to Megan for her assistance in telling this story. 719 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: True Crime Conversations is a Muma mea podcast hosted by 720 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:54,879 Speaker 1: me Claire Murphy with audio designed by Scott Stronage. Our 721 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:59,280 Speaker 1: executive producer is gam moylan. Thank you so much for listening. 722 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,400 Speaker 1: I'll be back next week with another true Crime conversation. 723 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: True Crime Conversations acknowledges the traditional owners of land and 724 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:19,600 Speaker 1: waters that this podcast was recorded on